
Hosted by Kirstyn DeVries · EN
Pace & Purpose.
A podcast hosted by Kirstyn DeVries, global connector, growth strategist, and distance runner.
In this podcast, you’ll hear from founders, leaders, and athletes who’ve gone all in, hit setbacks, recalibrated—and come back sharper, more grounded, and driven to succeed.
We discuss bold pivots, relentless ambition, and the mindset shifts behind sustained performance, setting you on the course to your highest potential.
Whether you’re leading a team, building a business, or training for your next big race—there is one common thread…
“Refining your purpose and finding your pace.”
Join me, your host Kirstyn DeVries,
Pace & Purpose
Launching: July 2025
Ooyy – "The World - Instrumental Version" (courtesy of Epidemic Sound)
https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/iPN7fCG63b/

As Pace & Purpose reaches Episode 25, this special holiday edition brings together voices from across the podcast’s first season to pause, reflect, and celebrate the traditions that ground us.Grab a cup of hot cocoa and curl up on the couch for an episode of warm-hearted nostalgia. Since launching in July, the podcast has reached listeners in 38 countries and over 350 cities worldwide — and this episode is a thank-you to the global community that has grown alongside the show.For this festive special, past guests were invited to share short reflections on three simple prompts:a holiday ritual that feels groundinga festive story — funny, chaotic, or heart-warminga tradition they hope to carry forward into the futureWhat emerges is a tapestry of memories, values, laughter, and intention — reminding us that traditions are a powerful way we mark time, connect across cultures, and find our rhythm at year-end.🎙️ Featuring holiday reflections from:Lydia Merrett — UK-based artist exploring embodiment, movement, and women’s physicality through artValerie Fox — Innovation coach, community builder, and creative leaderDrew Duggan — Founder of DVLP Music, Sharing reflections on meaning, rhythm, and personal traditionMark Busse — Communication strategist & designer. Offering perspective on leadership, reflection, and continuityJustin Fogarty — Co-Founder of Talk-A-Mile Reflecting on growth, intention, and future traditionsTony Margiotta — Veteran leader and community builder bridging discipline and purposeDilys Maltby — Purpose-driven strategist on curiosity, learning, and intentional livingWhether you’re listening in the quiet of winter or the warmth of summer, this episode invites you to slow the pace, reflect on what matters, and carry forward the traditions that shape who you are becoming.Blessings this holiday season. Keep refining your purpose, and finding your pace.Thanks to all of the guests that have recorded on the Pace & Purpose Podcast this year. Your stories have motivated, inspired, informed and uplifted our listeners. Merry Christmas & Happy New Year! Music: Jingle Bells (Spanish Guitar Version) - Andrés Cantú

SummaryIn this episode of the Pace and Purpose podcast, host Kirstyn DeVries interviews Dilys Maltby, chair of Circus, a boutique management consultancy specializing in purpose and proposition. Dilys shares her unconventional career journey, from her early indecision about her professional path to her eventual success in the branding and consultancy space. She discusses the founding of Circus, emphasizing the importance of purpose-driven strategy in business. The conversation also touches on the challenges of entrepreneurship, including navigating burnout and setbacks, and the value of collaboration and continuous learning in achieving success. In this conversation, Dilys Maltby shares her insights on resilience in business, the importance of mentorship, and the role of arts in education. She tells her personal journey, the challenges of leadership transitions, and the significance of curiosity and continuous learning. Dilys emphasizes the need for clarity in purpose and the value of imagination and discernment in both personal and professional realms.TakeawaysDilys emphasizes the importance of having a rich network for career growth.Her early career was marked by a series of unexpected opportunities and risks.She learned the value of audience understanding through her media planning role.Drama training helped her take risks and seize opportunities.Dilys believes that purpose should drive business strategy, not just marketing.Circus was founded to provide strategic principles to clients, focusing on purpose.She values collaboration and co-working in her consultancy approach.Dilys reflects on the importance of continuous learning and curiosity.She acknowledges the challenges of navigating client relationships and expectations.Burnout and setbacks are common in entrepreneurship, and she shares her experiences. Good work leads to more good work.Resilience is a core skill for entrepreneurs.Understanding sacrifice is crucial in business.Practice and performance are essential for success.Mentorship plays a vital role in personal growth.Education and kindness are powerful tools.Learning to lose well is important.Imagination and discernment are key qualities.Access to the arts is fundamental for all children.Purpose should clarify the why and for whom.Sound Bites"It was like an audition.""Purpose should drive the commercial proposition.""Good work begats good work.""Practice and performance are key.""You gather wisdom as you go.""You can do anything with education and kindness.""I was taught to lose well.""I'm fascinated by people's lives."Chapters00:00Introduction and Background02:14Career Journey and Early Experiences14:22Founding Circus and Strategic Focus17:06A Day in the Life at Circus19:27Navigating Burnout and Setbacks21:12Navigating Business Challenges with Resilience22:30The Circus Double Double: Ideology, Sacrifice, and Discipline24:12The Importance of Practice and Performance25:57Influential Figures: Mentorship and Wisdom28:27Resilience and Gender Dynamics in the Workplace30:01Learning to Lose: The Art of Argumentation31:12Vision for the Future: Transitioning Leadership32:37The Role of Arts in Education: Advocating for STEAM34:40The Unseen Work: Curiosity and Continuous Learning38:27Defining Purpose: Clarity, Color, and Courage

In this episode of the Pace and Purpose podcast, Kirstyn DeVries reconnects with Clive, a seasoned entrepreneur and consultant. Clive shares his journey from a creative career in television to establishing a global consultancy aimed at helping entrepreneurs realize their potential. The conversation delves into themes of collaboration, the importance of purpose, and the balance between personal well-being and professional success. Clive emphasizes the significance of mentorship, the power of community, and the necessity of maintaining clarity in one's principles. He also discusses the transformative experiences that come from both breakdowns and breakthroughs, encouraging listeners to embrace their challenges as opportunities for growth.TakeawaysClive's journey reflects the importance of following one's passion.Collaboration is essential for entrepreneurial success.Breakdowns often lead to breakthroughs in personal and professional life.Finding peace in nature can rejuvenate creativity.Daily habits and principles shape our success and well-being.Fear is a natural part of the entrepreneurial journey.Curiosity drives continuous learning and growth.Purpose should be bigger than personal gain.Mentorship plays a crucial role in personal development.Sound Bites: "Exercise is my non-negotiable habit.""Ambition is driven by identity and goals.""Find your purpose that's bigger than you."Chapters01:05Clive's Journey: From TV to Consultancy03:14The Birth of Global Citizen and Collaboration11:12Balancing Principles and Priorities14:24Daily Life: From Overwhelm to Joy17:04Breakdowns Leading to Breakthroughs19:59The Role of Fear and Collaboration in Business22:36Curiosity and Lifelong Learning22:56Rituals for Resilience25:31Navigating Overwhelm and Finding Balance27:43The Impact of Mentorship30:16Vision and Ambition: A Scary Journey32:22Curiosity and Integrity as Core Values36:26The Essence of PurposeAbout Clive: Clive was born into a third-generation farming family from South-West Western Australia. His entrepreneurial spirit ignited early, juggling four side hustles by the age of nine. This drive propelled him to write, produce, and direct his first television show at just 16 and launch Australia's record-breaking revenue-earning Comedy Channel as its Creative Director at 25. He even became one of the youngest producers of The ARIA Awards (think Grammys), demonstrating his innate ability to lead and inspire high-performing teams. By 30, Clive had garnered 30 international awards. Serving as an advisor and board member for entities like Rare Birds, Start Up Business Kids, Global Citizen, and Welleco. A serial entrepreneur, Clive has founded or co-founded ten organizations. His most notable success, TCO, achieved a 10x return in 4 years, upon its sale to WPP.Beyond business, Clive is a dedicated philanthropist and compelling public speaker (SXSW, United Nations Foundation, Women In Tech Osaka, Unicef New York, The Marketing Academy ASIA PAC).He is a founding partner of Global Citizen, the NGO juggernaut committed to ending extreme poverty which has redeployed $50bn USD.Clive founded Compadres, a next-generation business growth practice, helping visionary entrepreneurs and leaders across diverse sectors, leading businesses with valuations around $500 million. Chairman to Amplify (ASIA PAC), Global Advisor to Women in Tech (Paris), United Nations Foundation (Washington DC), and Non-Executive Director of Adoreum (UK). Links: Website: https://wearecompadres.com/Instagram: @wearecompadres

Alex Wallace is the Founder of the Mintridge Foundation. Established in 2015 when Alex was 24, Mintridge has worked with over 100,000 young people.As a lifelong sports fan and with a wealth of knowledge across the school sector, Alex was keen to channel her interests and help others and give all young people equal sporting opportunities. Alex wanted to use her experiences, both positive and negative, to promote an active lifestyle and positive mental health for children and young people and to harness the power of sporting role models to help and influence young people. Put simply, she wants every young person to build and maintain a positive and healthy relationship with sport in whatever capacity they choose to pursue it.Alex needed help herself as a teenager. As a committed hockey player, Alex missed out on getting into the u16 England team at the final stage; she had a huge crash of confidence and felt her identity was under threat. Alex struggled with what she perceived as failure, and she never wanted anyone else to go through the same.Alex’s role model growing up was the men’s rugby union star, Jonny Wilkinson. She loved his devotion to his teammates and meticulous training regime. Looking back, Alex often questions why he was her role model. She didn’t play rugby and she isn’t male but it was hard to see female sporting role models. Alex wants every young person to look up to the Mintridge Family and think “that person looks like me, they are from the same background as me, and my possibilities are endless”.Alex was awarded the Women of the Future Sport Award in 2017 alongside Dr Sarah Leiter and is now a proud Ambassador for the organisation.Alex was awarded the 2018 Sunday Times Sportswomen of the Year in the Grassroots Category and is now a Judge for the Awards, being a huge advocate for promoting the importance that women’s and girl’s sport plays in society.Alex has been granted the distinction of Associate Fellow of the Royal Commonwealth Society for her commitment to promoting the values of the Commonwealth and working to improve the lives and prospects of Commonwealth Citizens. Alex’s fun mentality always lends itself to her mammoth fundraising challenges, with two such examples being a tractor selfie campaign that went viral to support mental health within the farming industry and even a “Party with a Purpose” where she achieved World Record Breaking status in a 29 hour spin class for a number of causes.Kindness is at the forefront of all she does as she was recently a Rising Star Listee on the 2024 Kindness & Leadership 50 Leading Lights List in association with KPMG.Highlights:The importance of bridging the gap between performance sport and youth.How sports can instill values that translate into everyday life.The role of mentors in shaping personal and professional journeys.Overcoming depression and the fear of failure.The significance of being present and enjoying the journey.The impact of family and community on personal growth.The vision for Mintridge Foundation to inspire young people.The challenges of identity tied to sports and finding balance.The power of asking and taking risks in personal and professional life.The importance of passion and authenticity in everything you do.Here are the top 5 quotes from the episode:"If it ain't raining, it ain't training.""Find something more important than you and devote your life to it.""I always say my biggest love became my worst enemy.""The doing is the thing you do for the longest.""Just ask, just do it, just why not?"Links:Website: https: www.mintridgefoundation.org.ukLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-wallace-dl-95b9b687/

In this episode of the Pace and Purpose show, Kirstyn DeVries welcomes Philippa Tyndale (Pip), a passionate advocate for women's education and empowerment, to discuss her journey from a journalist to a leader in the nonprofit sector. Philippa shares her experiences growing up in Australia, her transformative travels, and her work with Opportunity International and the Te Kworo Foundation. The conversation delves into themes of privilege, purpose, and the power of storytelling, highlighting Philippa's dedication to creating opportunities for women and girls in Uganda.TakeawaysPhilippa's childhood in Australia was idyllic and full of community spirit.Her first awareness of privilege came during a trip to Indonesia at age 14.Philippa's career began in journalism, which honed her storytelling skills.A melanoma diagnosis was a turning point, leading to a focus on meaningful work.Her work with Opportunity International opened her eyes to sustainable poverty alleviation.Philippa emphasizes the importance of relationships and community in her work.The Te-kworo Foundation focuses on education and empowerment for Ugandan girls.Philippa's faith and daily habits provide her with peace and direction.The concept of 'growing fruit on other people's trees' guides her philanthropic efforts.Philippa's vision includes sustaining education for 1,200 girls in Uganda.Bio:Philippa (Pip) Tyndale is a passionate advocate for women's education and empowerment, a published Author, an Advocate and Philanthropist. In today’s episode she and I discuss her journey from a journalist to a leader in the nonprofit sector. She shares her experiences growing up in Australia, her transformative travels, and her work with Opportunity International and the Te-Kworo Foundation. Her deep passion and a sense of justice have driven her involvement in organisations that serve the most oppressed, and raise the most vulnerable.Through governance and representation roles, she has poured her energy into such causes as anti-trafficking, micro-finance, street dweller rehabilitation, girls education, digital literacy and maternal health.Her work has taken her back many times to Uganda, India, Indonesia and the Philippines. Over this time, she has established relationships throughout the development, social enterprise and faith-based charity worlds.Philippa currently consults with non-profits on governance and strategy, sitting on several not-for-profit boards working in developing countries in the areas of girls’ education, anti-trafficking, and digital learning for children in remote villages.As mentioned, she is a writer - and Pip is the author of two published biographies.She has written for prestigious newspapers and magazines in Australia, including the Australian Financial Review, Sydney Morning Herald and SuperFunds Magazine.The conversation today, delves into themes of privilege, purpose, and the power of storytelling. Quotes:"Privilege is a lens to see the world." "Storytelling is a powerful tool for change." "Our lives won't be the same after this." "Purpose means creating opportunities for others." "Faith provides peace and direction." "Growing fruit on other people's trees." "Education is key to empowerment." "Community is at the heart of everything." "A meaningful life is a life of service." "Sustainable change comes from within communities."LINKS:https://www.te-kworofoundation.org/https://www.philippatyndale.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philippa-tyndale/

In this episode of the Pace & Purpose podcast, Kirstyn DeVries interviews Sari Wotawa, exploring themes of inclusion, resilience, and personal growth. Sari shares her journey from a multicultural upbringing in Australia to a career in learning and development, emphasising the importance of saying yes to opportunities and finding joy in everyday moments. The conversation delves into Sari's experiences with redundancy, her passion for helping others grow, and her vision for a portfolio career. Listeners are encouraged to embrace change, prioritize personal development, and find purpose in their current circumstances.TakeawaysSari's multicultural upbringing instilled a deep value of inclusion and accessibility.Experiencing racism in childhood shaped Sari's commitment to inclusion.Moving overseas exposed Sari to diverse cultures and lifestyles.Sari's career in learning and development was fueled by a love of helping others grow.Redundancy taught Sari to find purpose and joy in her current circumstances.Sari emphasizes the importance of saying yes to opportunities.Personal development is a continuous journey for Sari.Sari's vision for a portfolio career reflects her desire for flexibility and impact.Finding joy in everyday moments is a key theme in Sari's life.Sari values intentionality in how she spends her time and energy.Quotes + Highlights: "Inclusion is a lifelong journey." "Say yes to opportunities." "Find joy in the everyday." "Resilience is built through challenges." "Purpose is found in the present." "Embrace change and growth." "Personal development never stops." "Inclusion starts with understanding." "Joy is in the simple moments." "A portfolio career offers flexibility."Keywordsinclusion, resilience, personal growth, learning and development, portfolio career, multicultural upbringing, redundancy, personal development, purpose, joy

In this engaging conversation, Sheldon Levy reflects on his extensive career in education, sharing insights on leadership, the importance of critical thinking, and the impact of mentorship. He discusses his journey from a lower middle-class background to becoming a prominent figure in Canadian education, emphasizing the significance of taking risks and building community. Throughout the dialogue, Levy highlights the lessons learned from influential figures in his life and the importance of staying fresh and open to new ideas in leadership roles.Sheldon Levy is a higher education leader and visionary with a passion for innovation, entrepreneurship and the digital economy. Sheldon has been an instrumental figure in Canada’s innovation ecosystem in the last decade, spearheading the creation of such organizations as Ryerson’s Digital Media Zone (DMZ), the Brookfield Institute for Innovation + Entrepreneurship, and Scale Up Ventures, Inc. As President and Vice-Chancellor of Ryerson University from 2005 to 2015, Sheldon drove the creation of the Digital Media Zone (DMZ), an early-stage incubator for student entrepreneurs which has since become an international success. He is also a founder and advisor to Ryerson Futures Inc., an accelerator that has exported the DMZ concept to such locations as Calgary and Mumbai. From 2015 to 2017 Sheldon served as Ontario’s Deputy Minister of Advanced Education and Skills Development, where he helped prioritize innovation and entrepreneurship throughout Ontario’s postsecondary education and training system. In 2017 he became CEO of NEXT Canada, an organization that provides mentorship, education, networks and funding to Canada’s most promising entrepreneurs. Sheldon is also a Board of Directors of Baycrest Health Sciences.Sheldon previously served as President of Oakville’s Sheridan College from 1997 to 2001, overseeing the growth of its renowned animation department during the early years of computer-generated imaging. Sheldon’s other prior positions have included Vice President Finance and Strategy, University of Ontario Institute of Technology; Vice President of Governmental and Institutional Relations, University of Toronto; and Vice President Institutional Affairs, York University. Sheldon recently received The Order of Canada.TakeawaysSheldon Levy emphasizes the importance of taking the 'scary road' in career choices.He believes that staying fresh and open to new ideas is crucial for leaders.Levy highlights the need for universities to engage with their surrounding communities.He shares that critical thinking is essential in today's society.Levy learned the importance of knowing what you believe in during challenging times.He reflects on the impact of mentorship and influential figures in his life.Levy discusses the significance of effective communication in leadership.He believes that mistakes should be viewed as learning opportunities.Levy stresses the importance of differentiating between common mistakes and those that damage reputation.He encourages young people to be critical thinkers and open to diverse opinions.Sound Bites"Take the scary road.""You have to stay fresh.""I was blessed by many people."Chapters00:00Reflecting on a Shared Journey03:27Sheldon Levy's Career Path15:10The Impact of Education on Lives17:59A Day in the Life of a University President22:28Building Community Through Education29:42Navigating Controversy and Leadership44:15Lessons from Influential Figures50:37The Meaning of Purpose and Critical ThinkingKeywordsSheldon Levy, education, leadership, entrepreneurship, critical thinking, innovation, communi

In this episode, Kirstyn DeVries reflects on her personal journey, exploring themes of change, purpose, and resilience. She shares insights from her life experiences, including her upbringing, career, and personal challenges, and how these have shaped her current outlook and podcasting journey. Kirstyn emphasizes the importance of adapting to change and finding one's purpose through choice and self-awareness.TakeawaysChange is a constant and embracing it leads to growth.Purpose is grounded in choice and self-awareness.Adapting to life's changes is crucial for personal development.Reflecting on past experiences can provide valuable insights.Building a supportive network is essential for resilience.Philanthropy and community service are integral to Kirstyn's journey.Running and physical fitness are key motivators for Kirstyn.Kirstyn's career has been shaped by diverse experiences and challenges.Finding balance between personal and professional life is important.Kirstyn's podcast aims to share diverse stories and insights.Quotes:Change is a constant in my life. Purpose is grounded in choice. Adapting leads to personal growth. Reflect on past for insights. Supportive networks build resilience. Philanthropy is part of my story. Running motivates my journey. Diverse experiences shape my career. Balance is key to success. Sharing diverse stories inspires.ChaptersIntroduction and Personal ReflectionEarly Life and InfluencesCareer and PhilanthropyPersonal Challenges and GrowthFinding Purpose and BalancePodcasting Journey and InsightsKeywordsKirstyn DeVries, personal journey, change, purpose, resilience, podcasting, self-awareness, adaptation, life experiences, career

A Veteran's Journey of Discipline, Disruption, and Driving Change in Tech and BeyondJoin this inspiring conversation with Tony Margiotta, Veteran, and Head of UK Business 3S Money, exploring his journey from a military career to becoming a prominent figure in the FinTech community. Discover the lessons learned, the importance of community, and the power of discipline and purpose.Bio:Today our guest’s story is a compelling blueprint for discipline, global leadership, and reinvention—please join me in welcoming Tony Margiotta!Tony is a London-based veteran who seamlessly transitioned the core principles of a British Army Sergeant Major and Army Commando into the civilian corporate sphere. His career in the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers and as a senior instructor with the Royal Marines took him through some of the toughest theatres: Northern Ireland, Kosovo, Bosnia, and posts in Cyprus, Germany, and the US to name just a few.He currently serves as the Head of UK Business at 3S Money, a leading platform for international business accounts. Tony’s experience is deeply woven into the fabric of London’s alpha city. He played a pivotal role in the early adoption of co-working, was the Global Head of Membership at Rise (immersing himself in the FinTech world), and had a career-defining leadership role within LOCOG for the 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games.Beyond his executive roles, Tony thrives on building bridges. He founded the non-profit HUGE (Helping to Urge Generosity Everywhere) while in Santa Monica, and more recently established a women's Tech Angels group dedicated to championing trailblazing women in tech and business. Furthermore, he is deeply committed to mentoring UK veterans, helping them successfully navigate their service-to-civilian transition.In his personal time, Tony is a healthy lifestyle advocate,constantly adapting and exploring new ideas to stay ahead of the curve. He cherishes moments with his inner circle of friends, his six grandchildren, partner Fanny, and his loyal Beaglier, Benji.So, let's hear from this true Commando, successful veteran, health advocate, and family man. A massive welcome to Tony Margiotta!"Key Episode Topics:Military Beginnings:Tony shares his early life and the influence of his military career on his personal and professional development.Transition to Civilian Life:Insights into the challenges and opportunities Tony faced when transitioning from military to civilian life.Building Communities:The significance of community building in Tony's journey, including his work with the non-profit HUGE and the creation of co-working spaces.Role in the 2012 Olympics:Tony's involvement in the London Olympics and how it shaped his career path.Rise in FinTech:The establishment of Rise, a FinTech hub, and Tony's role in connecting startups with established financial institutions.Personal Routines and Well-being:Tony's daily routines, focusing on health, fitness, and maintaining a balanced lifestyle.Leadership and Influence:The impact of mentors and leaders in Tony's life, emphasizing the importance of leading by example.Purpose and Aging:Reflections on purpose, aging, and the importance of staying active and engaged in life.Takeaways:The power of discipline and community in achieving personal and professional goals.The importance of adaptability and resilience in navigating life's transitions.The role of leadership and mentorship in personal growth and development.Hashtags:#Leadership #CommunityBuilding #FinTech #Purpose #PodcastSocial Media:LinkedI

Justin Fogarty, co-founder of Talk A Mile, discusses his journey from a tech career to founding a nonprofit focused on fostering conversations between students and police trainees. The conversation explores the impact of movement on dialogue, the challenges of scaling a nonprofit, and the importance of curiosity and active listening in education and community building.Bio:Justin and his family are based on the west coast of the United States, in Portland Oregon where he lives with his wife and son. He, his wife Erica and son Liam co-founded Talk A Mile in 2020. Talk a Mile pairs student leaders with local police trainees to improve the community one conversation and one mile at a time. Talk A Mile meets at a local park or track. Participants walk four laps together while sharing each other’s story, building relationships and trust. Justin has spent the majority of his career in communications. Before co-founding Talk A Mile, Justin led the marketing and production teams for The Math Learning Center, a non-profit focused on math education. In his earlier career, Justin worked for a number of Silicon Valley start-ups and tech companies, including Bloomreach, Ariba and Wipro. The common thread in all of Justin's roles is his natural curiosity and desire to understand people. Justin earned a BA from the University of California, Santa Barbara, and a master's from the University College London. Justin is an avid runner - Justin has run every day since January 1, 2011 and the cumulative mileage of his run streak recently surpassed 26,200 miles, or a thousand marathons. TakeawaysJustin Fogarty's journey from tech to nonprofit.The founding of Talk A Mile to foster student-police dialogue.Impact of movement on conversation and understanding.Challenges in scaling a nonprofit organization.Importance of curiosity in learning and community building.Role of active listening in fostering understanding.Justin's personal running streak as a metaphor for consistency.The evolution of Talk A Mile to include diverse student groups.Building community partnerships and applying for grants.Vision for Talk A Mile's national and international expansion.Social Media:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinfogarty/Instagram: @talkamile Instagram - Justin: @justacioWebsite: https://www.talkamile.org/ Chapters Introduction and BackgroundFounding Talk A MileImpact of Movement on Dialogue Challenges in Scaling Curiosity and LearningActive Listening and Community BuildingPersonal Insights and ConsistencyVision for the FutureKeywordsJustin Fogarty, Talk A Mile, nonprofit, community building, active listening, education, movement, dialogue, scaling challenges, curiosity