Interview with my father: Craig Daley

Summary

Podcast Summary: Papi Killed Mommy – Interview with My Father: Craig Daley

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Papi Killed Mommy, host Nikki delves deeper into the unresolved mystery surrounding her mother's tragic murder. Titled "Interview with My Father: Craig Daley," released on July 30, 2025, this episode presents an unfiltered and raw conversation between Nikki and her father, Craig Daley. Unlike previous installments, this episode features the full, unedited interview, providing listeners with an authentic glimpse into Craig's perspective and experiences related to the case.

Trigger Warning

Nikki begins with a necessary trigger warning, cautioning listeners about discussions of domestic violence, homicide, and other distressing topics. She emphasizes the importance of sensitivity, stating, “The individual mentioned in this episodes is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law” (00:06).

Background and Purpose

Nikki explains that one of the most frequently asked questions pertains to her father’s memories and feelings about the night her mother was killed. Determined to shed light on overlooked aspects of the case, she presents Craig's first interview without any edits. "You'll also hear my voice throughout because I've decided not to edit out my own questions this time," she shares (00:42). This approach aims to provide an unvarnished account, highlighting gaps in the initial investigation where her father's testimony was inadequately addressed.

The Critical Phone Call

The conversation centers around a pivotal phone call on July 8, 1993, between Nikki's mother and Craig. Craig recounts the call's content and significance:

• Initial Contact: "She called me random. She'd call me every once in a while, but I never knew when" (02:39). During the call, his mother expressed her intention to return, discussing personal matters and dissatisfaction with her then-boyfriend, Russell Peterson.

• Personal Insights: Craig shares, “She was sick of him...she was having some kind of little affair with a pizza delivery guy” (04:55). He also reveals that his mother mentioned a phone recorder installed by Russell, adding, "she knew it and she said she didn't care" (04:56).

Suspicious Elements and Investigative Shortcomings

Craig highlights critical oversights in the investigation:

• Lack of In-Person Interview: "They never drove down to Phoenix to interview him in person in '93. They never recorded his statement. They never transcribed it" (05:07).

• Neglected Evidence: The father discusses how his insights regarding the phone recorder and Russell’s erratic behavior were dismissed by the investigators. “The fact that his words were neglected, minimized, and left out of the official case file is beyond suspect” (06:42).

Events on the Night of the Murder

The interview delves into the timeline of the crucial night:

• Duration of the Phone Call: Craig was on the phone with his mother from 8:06 PM to 9:53 PM (02:32). They discussed personal matters and plans for her to return with their children and pets.

• Discovery of Tragedy: After the call, Craig finds numerous messages on the voicemail, eventually learning that his mother had been shot by Russell Peterson (07:00).

• Russell's Behavior: Craig describes Russell as troubled, stating, “He was probably drunked up like always... he was a wimp” (08:12). He is perplexed by how Russell, whom he portrays as incapable and irresponsible, became the perpetrator.

The Elusive Phone Recorder

A significant point of contention is the phone recorder:

• Mother’s Awareness: "She said it was there, it was on, it was recording, and she did not care" (27:32). This device could have provided vital evidence but was never recovered.

• Russell’s Motives: Craig suggests that Russell may have tampered with or discarded the recorder to eliminate incriminating evidence. “He grabbed it and threw it out in the alley or something like that” (29:45).

Critical Missed Opportunities

Nikki and Craig discuss several missed investigative opportunities:

• Lack of Follow-Up: Despite knowing that Craig was a key witness and potential motive, the authorities failed to conduct a thorough in-person interview. “They never tracked him down to get his comment... two guys having the same story” (18:56).

• Ignored Affidavits: Aunt Wendy had reported her mother's affair with a contractor named Chuck Cash in 1999, but the Sedona Police Department never interviewed him, further weakening the case (18:08).

Personal Reflections and Emotional Weight

Nikki shares her emotional struggle with her father's limited involvement and unanswered questions:

• Unanswered Questions: “Why didn't he follow up? Why didn't he call police? Why didn't he do something?” (00:42). These lingering questions haunt Nikki, as she seeks closure and justice.

• Father’s Character: Despite being implicated, Nikki defends her father’s character, describing him as a good man without any history of abuse or malice. “He's just a man who loved my mom and she was coming back to him” (33:34).

Personal Stories and Memories

To humanize the narrative, Craig reminisces about his relationship with Nikki's mother:

• Clean Freak Anecdote: Sharing a light-hearted story, Craig recalls a bet with his wife about maintaining cleanliness. "She says it's the easiest 20 bucks I ever made...she started picking up the underwear and putting the stuff doing the dishes and this, that and the other" (20:46).

• Toughness and Strength: He emphasizes her resilience and capability, stating, “She was a tough girl” (06:05) and “she could take care of herself” (15:53).

Investigative Failures and Concluding Remarks

The episode concludes with a critical assessment of the investigative process:

• Insufficient Evidence: The authorities leaned heavily on Russell's account without corroborating evidence, dismissing the possibility of self-defense despite medical examiner findings. “They’re just literally running with the suspect's account, and they don't have enough evidence to prosecute” (29:25).

• Systemic Negligence: Craig attributes the investigation's shortcomings to institutional negligence and a desire to avoid scandal. “They were trying to cover their butt...like a lot of politic, whatever” (17:38).

• Call for Justice: Nikki underscores the importance of uncovering the truth and urges listeners to support the podcast in keeping her mother's story alive. She also invites anyone with information to contact the Sedona Police Department, highlighting the ongoing quest for justice.

Notable Quotes

• Craig Daley: “He was a wimp. You know, I approached him one time years ago, and he wet his pants when I approached him” (08:43).

• Nikki: “Why didn’t he do more? My dad isn't perfect. He'll be the first one to admit that” (33:08).

• Craig Daley: “They were trying to cover their butt...like a lot of politic, whatever” (17:38).

Conclusion

This episode of Papi Killed Mommy offers a poignant and thorough examination of overlooked evidence and the personal toll of unsolved justice. Through her father's unfiltered account, Nikki exposes critical flaws in the investigation and paints a nuanced picture of her parents' relationship. The raw honesty and emotional depth provide listeners with a deeper understanding of the complexities surrounding her mother's murder, emphasizing the enduring quest for truth and closure.

Support and Call to Action

Nikki concludes by encouraging listeners to support the podcast through donations and merchandise purchases, reinforcing the importance of continuing to tell her mother's story. She also appeals for any new information that could aid the investigation, underscoring the podcast's role in seeking justice.

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Connect with Papi Killed Mommy:

• Support the Show: Papi Killed Mommy Support
• Social Media: Follow Nikki on TikTok and Instagram @icolewassolution for updates and behind-the-scenes content.
• Contact Information: If you have any information regarding the case, reach out to the Sedona Police Department at 928-282-3100.

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Thank you for engaging with this detailed summary. For a more in-depth experience, listening to the full episode is highly recommended.

Transcript

[Interviewer]

Foreign.

[Nikki]

Hi, my name is Nikki, and I'm the daughter of a murdered woman. Welcome back to a special bonus episode of Poppy Killed Mommy. I'm still going to give you the trigger warning before we get started. This podcast contains discussions of domestic violence, homicide, and other potentially distressing topics. The individual mentioned in this episode is presumed guilty. Oh, I'm sorry. Should I redo that one, maybe? The individual mentioned in these episodes is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Listener discretion is advised. One of the many questions I'm asked most often about my mom's case usually has to do with my dad. What he remembers, what he thinks, and how he feels about that night. I hear it all the time. So in this episode, I want to give you his full, unedited first interview. Nothing cut, nothing filtered. Just his words. My dad. What you're about to hear is unlike any episode I've released so far. You'll also hear my voice throughout because I've decided not to edit out my own questions this time. I want you to experience these interviews exactly as they happened, with no cuts, no polish, and no filters. He does not like to talk about my mom's death, and it's taken me multiple efforts to finally get him in the studio. I've only gotten him in here twice to talk about my mom's death on mic. At times, he rambles a bit and gets a little off topic, and I have to reroute him back to the actual question. And other times, we stumble and we talk over each other because we're using the same mic. But my dad's voice is critical to this case. Not only was he one of the last people to speak to my mom before she was killed, but he's also the motive. The phone call they shared on July 8, 1993, just hours before her death may very well have been the trigger that set Russell Peterson off. And yet, despite how vital my dad was to this case, investigators never once drove down to Phoenix to interview him in person in 93. They never recorded his statement. They never transcribed it. And when he told the truth about the recording on the phone line, about Russell's behavior and about my mom's plans to come home, he was met with anger and frustration. The fact that his words were neglected, minimized, and left out of the official case file is beyond suspect. So today, you'll hear it for yourself. The original first interview I conducted with my father. A deep dive to understand who my mom was, what she wanted, and what was stolen from us that night.

[Interviewer]

All right, dad. Mom called you on July 8th at 8:06. Did you know that she was going to call you?

[Father]

No.

[Interviewer]

She just called you randomly?

[Father]

Yes. She called me random. She'd call me every once in a while, but I never knew when.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so this was random. And you picked up the phone and what'd she say to you right off the bat? Tell me about that phone call.

[Father]

Well, hey, how you doing? All this, that and the other. And then she got into she's coming back. And at that time I didn't have a girlfriend or anything, and it sounded pretty good to me, so I said, sure, you know, and the thing went on for. I talked to her for about an hour, maybe over an hour, and about this, that and the other, and it was getting into some pretty personal stuff because I lived with her for years, you know, had a kid with her and stuff. And. And so, yeah, that's how that started. She. And she told me some pretty weird stuff about how the boyfriend she had now was, you know, wet in the bed and he had to sleep on the couch and he was extra weird and she was having some kind of little affair with a pizza delivery guy because he couldn't do anything or whatever. She just was sick of him. And then she went on to tell me that he had a recorder on the phone line and she knew it and she said she didn't care. And she went on talking about some real personal stuff and then she went on talking about coming back and she didn't care about that recording thing. And that's the rest of the stuff I really can't tell you because she was. It was real personal stuff.

[Interviewer]

At the end of the day, she was coming back, though.

[Father]

Yeah, right. That happened right at the first of the conversation. She wanted to come back. She wanted to come back a couple times before, but one time I already had a girlfriend, so that wasn't going to work. And another time I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then she said, I can't leave. I can't leave him, I love him, or something like that. And I was disappointed on that one. But.

[Interviewer]

Okay, that's a great point that you're bringing up that she tried to come back prior to. So after she left you for Russell, how long until she wanted to come back? Was it right away? Was it a year? At 2? What do you think?

[Father]

It's probably. I'd have to guess and say a couple years.

[Interviewer]

Was it before she had the baby?

[Father]

That I really couldn't say. It could be. Could be after she had the baby.

[Interviewer]

But it was more than once she'd contacted you wanting to come back?

[Father]

At least two times. She'd call me all the time, like once every couple months or something. But it never was I want to come back type thing. It was just, you know, BS about this, that and the other, this, that and the other. Because we were friends and girlfriend and boyfriend, so we stayed buddies. We had a lot in common. She was a tough girl. So I think she was beating up the boys when she was younger.

[Interviewer]

Okay, all right, so. So by the end of the phone call, she was going to pack up.

[Nikki]

Me and my little sister, the dog.

[Interviewer]

And the cat and come back that weekend, right?

[Father]

That is correct, yes.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so at 9:53 when you ended your phone call, it was all happy time, right?

[Father]

Yeah, I was ready for her to see her in the morning and I didn't and I figured, well she changed her mind again. And then, then I find out on my, I went to work and came home and there was like 30 messages on the, the old time message machine that we had back then. And I, I go what the hell? All these messages on there. And I listened to, I had lived listen to a half a dozen of them before I finally got the point because they were ladies crying and this, that and the other and I couldn't understand them and this, that and the other. And finally it was somebody that talked coherent, wasn't crying. And that's when I learned that she had been shot by this guy, Russell guy, the one that she was with at that time.

[Interviewer]

What'd you think? At that moment.

[Father]

I knew that what happened? He came home and he was probably drunked up like always, otherwise he wouldn't have been sleeping on the couch. And he would listen to his message machine, which his total common sense and falls into the category of reality. And then he went and got his pistol because she never cared about pistols, especially a.44 Magnum double action, you know, dirty hairy gun.

[Interviewer]

And she wasn't in the frame of mind to grab a gun when you got off the phone with her, right?

[Father]

Well, no, she never was in the frame of mind of grabbing a gun. We went out shooting many times with my buddies stuff because we were all into target shooting and pistols and this, that and the other. And she'd sit in the truck, she had absolutely no interest in, I don't even think she could shoot one much with her left hand with a.44 magnum revolver. That's a two handed, better know what you're doing type of gun. And so that, that threw me off right there.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Father]

And that's all. That is what I told the cops, too. And on the phone when they called and interviewed me, and he bawled me out for making, you know, these assumptions, which is, to me, common sense. And the second interview the cops did with me about a year ago or two years ago said the same thing. Yeah, that. None of that makes any sense. And everything you're saying sounds like pretty much what happened. And so that's what happened.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so let's circle back around to the fact that you were never interviewed in person in 1993. Is that correct?

[Father]

Never. They just called me up, balled me out on the phone because I told him the truth.

[Interviewer]

What exactly did he say to you? What do you mean by bald out?

[Father]

Well, when I said, you know, the phone recorder. And she never used a pistol before in his life, and he was sleeping on the couch, and he was a bedwetter, and he was way past a beer drinker and a type of a controllable alcoholic. He was way past that. And one time he ran his car into a parked bulldozer on the side of the street and almost killed himself. So that's the type of guy he was. How she stuck around with him for as long as she did was the amazing part.

[Interviewer]

Well, what exactly did they say to you, though? That's what I'm trying to get out of you.

[Father]

It was a long time ago, and he was asking me questions, and he didn't like the questions. And the questions were pretty much the same as what I told you, but he got more specific on questions. I was here. That was in Phoenix at the time, and she was in Sedona. So I was talking to a Sedona cop or investigator.

[Interviewer]

You were talking to the Yavapai County Attorney investigator. You didn't even talk with anybody with the Sedona Police Department until 2020.

[Father]

That could very well be because I really didn't know who I was talking to.

[Interviewer]

I know who you talk to.

[Father]

So that's. That's pretty much what happened. And it all makes sense to me, but apparently it doesn't make sense to whoever I talked to. I told him about the phone recorder. I told. Told him that he was sleeping on the couch and she was sick of him and he was doing weird things and. And I know she didn't. She wasn't interested in pistols. She would not go get a pistol because, for one thing, she was a tough broad and she could have whooped his butt because she was a tough. She was kind of big, too. She was Five seven, five eight. And she was real strong, so. And he was a wimp. You know, I approached him one time years ago, and he wet his pants when I approached him. So him, she didn't need no pistol. She could take care of herself.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Backing up till 8:06. You were on the phone with her from 8:06 until 9:53. Making plans. You know, all that dirty talk, personal that you were talking about.

[Father]

Right.

[Interviewer]

Are you aware that at 11:20 that night. So what is that, an hour and something later, somebody called you again from our home?

[Father]

No.

[Interviewer]

You were never aware of that? I could show you the phone bill where this. Called again at 11:20. The very next outgoing call is you again. By then I was already asleep. And I remember Russell coming home between 11 and 1115. So by 1120, he's in the house.

[Father]

I don't know who called me.

[Interviewer]

So it could have been a redial by him or if she called you again, but you never picked up the phone?

[Father]

No, I was probably sleeping.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Anything else you want to add?

[Father]

I don't know. Yeah. How in the hell did this guy get away with this? How did they wind up. Oh, she supposedly shot that big old gun with her left hand. She was right handed.

[Interviewer]

And that's despite what the medical examiner's findings were. They said their hands were up in defense. It was a homicide. So that's the suspect's narrative and the Sona Police Department of the Appapi county with it.

[Father]

I'm sure it was her hands up in defense.

[Interviewer]

Right? With her hands up.

[Nikki]

Her hands were up in defense.

[Father]

There's no way that she would ever grab a pistol and start waving it around, no matter what the circumstances were. I had football player friend of mine that played varsity football and we were screwing around, punching each other in the arms to see who says ouch and who doesn't. And she smacked that football player in the. In the. Up in the arm, the upper arm there. And I could see on his face that he didn't like it. And he was a football player. They're supposed to be able to take that kind of stuff. So that's how much. How tough she was. And all the other girls that hang around friends and stuff like that would be real careful not to piss her off. So in other words, she could take care of herself, that she didn't need any gun to push him on the floor and leave. So I'm sure that he got it and started waving it around and she probably tried to take it away from him or defend herself. How they wound up with her shooting him is amazing. How they screwed that up. She was defending herself, correct?

[Interviewer]

That's what the medical examiner said. But the county attorney claimed there was insufficient evidence to prosecute him.

[Father]

What about the phone recorder?

[Interviewer]

That was never found. It's hearsay.

[Father]

Well, that's what she told me. So this is another part of hearsay?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Father]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

Isn't it frustrating?

[Father]

And he did that sort of thing. He was already jealously suspicious about the pizza delivery guy.

[Interviewer]

Okay, well, since I got you here and we're talking, then. Are you aware that he called somebody before he called 911? Did you know about this? Did I talk to you about this yet?

[Father]

Yes, you did. And he was. I'm sure that sounds like he was calling someone for advice.

[Nikki]

Correct.

[Interviewer]

These are your two phone calls. At 8:06, she calls you. And then again at 11:20, your phone is called again. We don't know if that's him or her. And then at 1:36 Glendale, he calls his father four minutes before he calls 911 and stays on the phone with 911 until they walk into the house and try to resuscitate. He called his dad. And this 136 phone call is never investigated. They don't even let. They don't even get this piece of evidence for 98 days. The Sedona Police Department doesn't subpoena for this themselves. They allowed Russell to bring this in 98 days later, and they never investigated this. Why? He called his dad and he had up to four minutes to stage the.

[Nikki]

Crime scene came on.

[Father]

The Sedona Police Department, I'm sure they don't have this going on in Sedona every day, so they probably didn't know what to do.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Father]

Or how to do it. And when they discovered they made big mistakes, they just, you know, under the rug, like the media does, like a lot of politic, whatever. Keep their ass out of trouble. And that's what that was all about.

[Interviewer]

And Aunt Wendy brought to their attention the affair, like you just said, you called it. The pizza delivery guy, he was like the window screen repair man or something.

[Father]

He was something like that.

[Interviewer]

He was like a contractor that came to the house to fix something. And. Yeah, she was having an affair. And in 1999, Aunt Wendy brought to the attention of the Yavapai county the affair. And the Yavapai county attorney wanted the Sedona Police Department to track him down. His name is Chuck Cash. And interview him. And they never did. That was another Missed opportunity.

[Father]

Yeah, I don't know much about that. I don't know.

[Interviewer]

Well, she admitted to you she was having an affair though, right?

[Father]

Yes, she did. And I remember it was like a pizza repair guy. It was something like that. Okay.

[Interviewer]

The point is, is they never tracked him down to get his comment quote, how, you know, he could have been. Another point of interest on how she was, you know, unhappy with him. And it's not just your story now. It's two guys having the same story.

[Father]

Oh, she definitely was unhappy with him. You know, the. The. She had him sleeping on the couch because he couldn't sleep in the bed.

[Interviewer]

Why do you think she waited so long to leave?

[Father]

Something to do with the second kid maybe.

[Interviewer]

Or.

[Father]

Maybe 30 years ago he looked like Brad Pitt or something. Why? That's a good question. You know, explain the universe. Explain this. It's right in the same ballpark.

[Interviewer]

All righty. Anything else you want to add? Nice little story you want to add about your time with mom?

[Father]

Oh, it was good. She met this guy at. He was a cook at a restaurant, at a motel, great big motel on Dunlap in the freeway. And he was helpless. So that's amazing to me why she would take off with this guy when I had all kinds of talent, you know, but he was doing and saying the right things at the time. And she took off with him, but she found out different the hard way.

[Interviewer]

Well, that's a sad story. You got any fun stories of when she was alive that you'd like to share that I can.

[Father]

Oh, we had all kinds of good times. We were into four wheel driving and.

[Interviewer]

Oh, I have a story you want me. I want you to tell daddy so I can put it in. You know how she's the clean freak and the bet one day that she couldn't. You know the story I'm talking about?

[Father]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Will you please tell that story?

[Father]

Well, she was clean freak, real clean freak, crazy clean freak. And she. And one day I said, I'll bet you you can't go a week without cleaning this place. And 20 bucks or something like that, I can't remember what it was. And she says it's the easiest 20 bucks I ever made. And so day went by, she didn't pick nothing up the next day. And I was being too about it. I was throwing my underwear on the floor, you know, dishes. I wouldn't even put them in the sink. And just stuff that irritated the out of her. And she only made it a couple days. She started picking up the underwear and putting the stuff doing the dishes and cleaning the kitchen and this, that, the other. I had to laugh and say, I won that one. So, yeah, she was past clean freak. Even the salt pepper had to be in the right order. So I got that one.

[Interviewer]

You have any other ones you want.

[Father]

To share, but you can't put them on this. We were real, real close, you know, we attached as buddies and attached as girlfriend, boyfriend and all that stuff. So there's. And then she had a. She talked real aggressive, you know, she would say stuff that probably most girls wouldn't say. And I think that one went along with her being raised up with boys and stuff, so on and so forth. She was kind of. She was a tough one.

[Interviewer]

And she's victim blamed for it in the case file for being aggressive. That's just her personality then, right?

[Father]

Well, she could have been aggressive, but she did. She didn't. She didn't grab no gun. I know that because she wasn't interested. I don't even think she knew how to shoot one or load one or anything like that. If I had any idea that this was going to come about and he had a pistol, I would have said, do you know where his pistol is at? And she would have said, yeah, it's up on the closet or something like that. I say, get it. Take all the bullets out of him and hide it.

[Interviewer]

You didn't even know he had a gun though, right?

[Father]

Didn't even know. Otherwise that's what I would have told him. That's if I thought he had enough cojones to even grab the pistol. So I think what made him do that was listening to the recording of me and her talking for an hour and whatever, and she was telling me about this screen repair guy and she advanced in her sexual abilities and she was dying to show me some of the stuff she learned. And I think that would piss anybody off. But nevertheless, she didn't care. She was done. She didn't care. She didn't care if he knew or not.

[Interviewer]

Did she talk to you in that phone call about, you know, I'm bringing his kid with, like. Or was that just implied?

[Father]

Well, that's automatic. They're not going to. Nobody's going to leave that kid with. With him.

[Interviewer]

Right. I just think that was like the.

[Father]

And besides that, that's just common knowledge. They're always going to give the kid to the, you know, there's no judge in the world that's going to interview both of them and say, you get the kid.

[Interviewer]

In his interrogation, he said that she Threatened to take the kid. So I was just wondering if she threatened it.

[Father]

Even if she did say that, that wouldn't have anything to do with it. What did have everything to do with it was the phone call to me.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. He brings it up a lot.

[Father]

Yeah. And, you know, I beat him up one time and scared the hell out of him another couple times because I was jealous. You know, I wanted her back because she was more than just a girlfriend. She was like a buddy. So I'm sure he had a bit of a thing against me, and that pissed him off even. Probably more than anything. Probably more than the pizza delivery guy or the screen guy or whatever. But it's completely opposite of what the authorities think. I mean, the guy should be sitting in the jailhouse where he belongs because, you know, that's where bedwetters go. And this was 30 years ago.

[Interviewer]

32.

[Father]

And he's helpless. He's worthless. That's another thing she mentioned, is he can't do anything. He can't fix a door. He can't, you know, clean the trap under the sink. He's absolutely helpless when it came to anything under the roof or basic necessities of living in a house or an apartment or anything. He couldn't do anything. And she. She said something about. She missed that with me because I could fix whatever. So there was a lot of things said in an hour and a half or over an hour.

[Interviewer]

It was almost two hours, almost two.

[Father]

There was a lot of things said, like 147 minutes. And most of it was this, that and the other. We didn't care what we were saying. We were just glad to be talking to each other. And this time I'm pretty sure she meant it because she knew that recorder was there. Because she told me. I know this is being recorded right.

[Interviewer]

Now, so let's circle back. I haven't asked you about the recording a lot because I didn't plan on introducing, but you keep bringing it up. So what is this recording? Explain to me what you're talking about.

[Father]

Well, he had those little Radio Shack telephone recorders hooked into the phone line in another room.

[Interviewer]

And she told you that?

[Father]

And she said, how did she know? She seen it.

[Interviewer]

She's seen it. What, hooked into the phone line?

[Father]

Yeah. It was just in another room under a pillow or under a blanket or something. He tried to hide it the best he could, but she was wondering where the cord went to. And it's just something you plug into another jack. Back then, everybody had landlines. And you could plug this radio Shack recorder in one of those landlines, and it picks up the whole recording.

[Interviewer]

No way.

[Father]

Yes. And that's part of the technology of 30 years ago.

[Interviewer]

So she found it and confronted him about it. Or she didn't confront him.

[Father]

She didn't even say nothing to him about it because she didn't tell me nothing about it. She just said it was there, it was on, it was recording, and she did not care. So that's one of the reasons why I knew she was serious about coming back, because she didn't care about the recording. I wouldn't even know about the recorder if she hadn't told me.

[Interviewer]

Okay, well, this recorder was never picked up in evidence, as far as I am aware of.

[Father]

No. Well, he got rid of it. That's probably the phone call that he called and got advice. Well, get rid of this, get rid of that, move this, move that, move the whole situation down to where it was a struggle. I never did find out what the cops said about it was his pistol, for one. But who grabbed it? Who got it into the conflict?

[Interviewer]

Well, they only have one side of the story, they say, and that's his.

[Nikki]

And she did then.

[Interviewer]

But that's despite what the medical examiner's findings were.

[Nikki]

She was in a defensive position.

[Interviewer]

She never had her hands on the gun when it went off.

[Father]

There you go.

[Interviewer]

But, I mean, this is what I'm battling with here.

[Father]

Well, how do they know she shot him then?

[Nikki]

They don't know.

[Interviewer]

They're just literally running with the suspect's account, and they don't have enough evidence to prosecute.

[Father]

Does it, the gun belongs to him have anything to do with it? And the recording business, which he got rid of the recorder, probably.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, he did.

[Nikki]

It's never found.

[Father]

Yeah, well, he just went and grabbed it and threw a trash can or threw it out in the alley or something like that.

[Interviewer]

He had up to four minutes before he called 911. I mean, who knows what he did?

[Father]

Yeah, well, he got four minutes of advice and three minutes. He had one minute of advice and three minutes to make sure he didn't look too stupid when the cops came. But the cops obviously, you know, that's. That was a pretty pitiful investigation, if you ask me.

[Interviewer]

Correct. And now essentially, they're telling us it's been too long and short of a confession, there's nothing they can do.

[Father]

Well, he's not going to confess because.

[Interviewer]

He got away with it.

[Father]

He got away with it and now he's pushing 70 or whatever. So even if he said something, he. Maybe they Wouldn't trust him because he's so old. But he did it, got away with it and could have been sort of an accident, but he definitely got the gun. And yeah, he definitely is the one that confronted her about the phone call because he listened to it before he threw it away. Otherwise he wouldn't have. He talks about you a bunch before he shot her.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, he admits that young.

[Father]

He got rid of that phone recorder. If they would have found that phone recorder, it would have made a difference. Unbelievable difference. The cops could have put a complete motive to it.

[Nikki]

Correct.

[Father]

But he got rid of it because he got some advice he was too stupid to get rid of. You know, set the scene up to where he mitigated a bunch of. Or some of the evidence and turned it into hearsay. And they really didn't know. And they made a big mistake by not. They had no one with experience on this thing on the. On the cops. The cops should put their best detective on it. And if they would have had a good detective, he'd have got to the bottom of it in no time. Just by interviewing me, they could have got.

[Interviewer]

Why do you think you weren't interviewed more?

[Father]

They only interviewed me one time on the phone.

[Interviewer]

Right. Why do you think that this whole like you were completely the motive for murder? Your last person early to talk to her. Why do you think? They didn't really follow through with that easy question.

[Father]

They were trying to cover their butt. That's why he kind of bawled me out. He knew that the Sedona Police Department made a terrible mistake and they didn't want to take the flack for it. And whoever this guy was, whether he's a cop, detective or whatever, was in the same camp. So by covering his ass, he covers everybody's ass. That's why he bitched me out on what I was telling him. And what I was telling him is the same thing I'm telling you.

[Interviewer]

Did you ever tell Wendy this? Or did you never talk to really Wendy because you didn't like her?

[Father]

There you go.

[Interviewer]

So you never told Wendy. Right. It wasn't until recently that Wendy knew all this, so she's been going blind. I didn't know what you guys talked about.

[Father]

I never talked to Wendy.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, she's been going out this blind for decades because she didn't know what you guys had planned. And I've known the story all my life because you've told me. I think that's all I need for right now.

[Nikki]

You've been a great sport.

[Interviewer]

Thanks, dad. Anything else you want to add.

[Father]

It'S a shame.

[Nikki]

You'Ve just heard my father's voice, unedited, unfiltered and in full.

[Interviewer]

How'd you feel about that?

[Nikki]

And if you can't tell, one of.

[Interviewer]

His favorite sayings is this, that and the other, this, that, and the other.

[Nikki]

I heard it constantly growing up. But anyway, these conversations matter because they shed light on the motive, on my mother's state of mind, and on the evidence investigators failed to pursue. It's hard to listen to my dad's words and not feel some of the weight that was lost. Not just my mom, but decades of justice that should have been ours. The fact that his statements weren't properly documented or investigated in 1993 still feels like one of the biggest failures in this case. There's a question I've carried with me, and I still don't have the courage to ask my dad. Why didn't he follow up? Why didn't he call police? Why didn't he do something? Even during this interview, I couldn't bring myself to say the words out loud. But I was thinking them. And the truth is, I still haven't found the right moment. But deep down, it's the question that never leaves me. Why didn't he do more? My dad isn't perfect. He'll be the first one to admit that. But he's a good man. He's never been convicted of domestic abuse, never been accused of murder, never the monster some might assume when they hear some parts of this story. He's just a man who loved my mom and she was coming back to him. He may not be perfect, but he will always be a good man. Why he never tried harder might just be a question I'll never have the nerve to ask. I hope you've enjoyed this special bonus episode of Poppy Killed Mommy. If you'd like to support this podcast and help me keep telling my mom's story, please consider clicking the Support the Show button in the notes or contributing to my go fund for CrimeCon merchandise for my trip to CrimeCon in September to spread my mom's story. The link is in the description and if you donate, I'll be sure to send you a thank you card with a sticker. I'm running out of first generation stickers, but I have a new shipment of stickers coming and I'll definitely make sure that you get one with a thank you card. I really appreciate you. You can also follow me on TikTok or Instagram icolewassolution for updates and behind the scenes content. I am legit, always posting. And if you or anyone you know has any information about the death of my mother, Stephanie Marie Wasolated, please contact the Sedona Police Department at 928-282-3100. Any little tip could help. And as always, thank you for listening to Poppy Killed Mommy.