Steve Young, ASU Head Coach Kenny Dillingham, Are The Bengals Back? Jalen Hurts And AJ Brown Used To Be Friends, CFB Playoffs And Guys On Chicks

Summary

Pardon My Take Episode Summary: Steve Young, ASU’s Kenny Dillingham, Bengals Revival, and More

Release Date: December 11, 2024

Overview

In this action-packed episode of Pardon My Take, hosts Big Cat and PFT Commenter delve into a myriad of sports topics, ranging from the resurgence of the Cincinnati Bengals and the dynamics between Jalen Hurts and AJ Brown to insightful interviews with NFL legend Steve Young and Arizona State Sun Devils head coach Kenny Dillingham. The episode also tackles controversies in the NFL coaching scene, the intricacies of the College Football Playoff system, and highlights among Heisman Trophy finalists.

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1. NFL Segment

A. Cincinnati Bengals: Are They Back?

Timestamp: [03:15]

Big Cat initiates the discussion by expressing cautious optimism about the Bengals' prospects, especially highlighting Jamar Chase's exceptional performance. He remarks, “Jamar Chase is so goddamn good, it's actually insane to watch” ([03:16]). Despite acknowledging the team's struggles in previous seasons, he emphasizes the offensive strengths that keep Bengals fans hopeful, albeit recognizing the defense’s persistent issues.

B. Critique of Mike McCarthy’s Coaching

Timestamp: [03:56]

PFT Commenter critiques Cowboys head coach Mike McCarthy, particularly spotlighting McCarthy's tendency to ruminate over poor plays. He humorously suggests, “You got to stop subjecting yourself to just trauma repeatedly over and over again” ([04:24]). The hosts discuss McCarthy's infamous moments, including an incident where he allegedly assaulted a cameraman, further questioning whether this season marks McCarthy’s best coaching stint.

C. Jalen Hurts and AJ Brown: From Friends to Teammates?

Timestamp: [12:50]

The conversation shifts to the Philadelphia Eagles, focusing on the reported friction between quarterback Jalen Hurts and wide receiver AJ Brown. After Brandon Graham's comments suggesting that Hurts and Brown "don't fuck with each other" ([13:08]), the hosts dissect the validity of these claims. Big Cat clarifies, “They used to be friends before being teammates” ([13:14]), highlighting how professional environments can strain personal relationships.

D. NFL Playoff Predictor and Bengals’ Chances

Timestamp: [06:03]

Discussing the playoff landscape, Big Cat assesses the Bengals' slim chances of making it to the postseason, estimating a roughly 3-10% probability ([06:05]). He underscores the difficulty of their path, which would require the team to win all remaining games while other key teams falter.

---

2. College Football Playoffs and Conference System

A. Heisman Trophy Finalists

Timestamp: [26:29]

The hosts review the Heisman Trophy finalists: Ashton Gentee (Boise State), Cam Ward (Miami), Dylan Gabriel (Oregon), and Travis Hunter (Colorado). They humorously debate omissions and the accuracy of stat presentations, such as Cam Ward’s exaggerated yardage ([26:52]). The discussion underscores the competitiveness and talent present among the finalists, with both hosts expressing a desire to see them share the award.

B. Critique of the College Football Playoff (CFP) System

Timestamp: [28:14]

Big Cat and PFT Commenter critique the CFP’s conference buy-in system, arguing that it inherently favors traditional powerhouses and undervalues exceptionally strong teams from non-elite conferences. They discuss the potential benefits and drawbacks of allowing teams like Boise State or Oregon more direct paths to the playoffs, suggesting that the current system is more lucrative than merit-based ([29:06]).

They propose alternatives such as expanding the playoff slots or eliminating conference championships to prioritize on-field performance over conference affiliations. The hosts express concern over the SEC’s influence and the potential marginalization of other conferences, emphasizing the need for a more equitable system that recognizes talent irrespective of conference prestige.

---

3. Heisman Trophy Finalists

Timestamp: [26:29] – [27:56]

Big Cat and PFT Commenter delve into the performances of the Heisman finalists, debating their merits and potential impact in the award race. They express admiration for the finalists’ abilities and discuss the organizational aspects of the award process, noting how the voting has likely concluded without their input.

PFT Commenter suggests, “I would split it. I think it would be a four-way tie if it were up to me” ([27:25]), highlighting the competitiveness among the finalists. Both hosts agree that while they have personal favorites, the candidates’ performances make it a close race deserving of recognition.

---

4. Interviews

A. Steve Young: Reflections and Insights

Timestamp: [57:51] – [85:55]

The first major interview features Steve Young, the Pro Football Hall of Famer, who shares his journey from being a struggling quarterback to achieving superstardom with the San Francisco 49ers. Young recounts pivotal moments, such as his mentorship under Bill Walsh and the resilience required to overcome setbacks.

Key Highlights:

• Transition to the 49ers: Young discusses his move from the struggling Cowboys to the 49ers, highlighting how Bill Walsh’s philosophy emphasized teamwork and mutual respect. He recounts Walsh’s inspiring advice: “We’re going to win because we have shared common experiences amongst each other and an element of love for each other” ([58:30]).

• Overcoming Adversity: Young shares personal anecdotes about facing criticism and injuries, emphasizing the importance of mindset and support systems in achieving success.

• Advice for Aspiring Coaches and Players: He underscores the significance of being open to learning, adapting strategies, and fostering a positive team culture to thrive in high-pressure environments.

Young also reflects on his legendary career moments, including the iconic "monkey off my back" touchdown celebration, and discusses the evolution of quarterback play, addressing modern techniques like the slide and how they impact the game’s dynamics.

Notable Quote:

“What Steve Young did with the 49ers really set the foundation for the modern game, emphasizing intelligence and adaptability over sheer physicality.” ([75:00])

B. Kenny Dillingham: Building a Champion at Arizona State

Timestamp: [115:33] – [143:57]

In the second interview, Kenny Dillingham, head coach of the Arizona State Sun Devils, discusses his remarkable season leading ASU to the Big 12 Championship despite being tipped to finish last. Dillingham attributes the team’s success to resilience, strategic play-calling, and fostering a supportive environment.

Key Highlights:

• Unexpected Success: Dillingham shares how ASU defied expectations by winning the Big 12, emphasizing the team's collective determination and adaptability. He states, “We have a lot of people who were at these blue blood programs that chose to come out here... compete for championships at the same time” ([116:33]).

• Innovative Coaching Strategies: He discusses the utilization of versatile play designs and the importance of empowering quarterbacks to make decisive plays under pressure. Highlighting Cam Scatterboats’ smart decision-making during critical moments, Dillingham praises his intelligence and competitiveness ([117:21]).

• Transfer Portal and Recruiting Philosophy: Dillingham articulates his positive approach to the transfer portal, supporting players’ career aspirations and maintaining a reputation that attracts quality recruits. He emphasizes, “College sports is supposed to be to help the kids... I root for them. I try to help them” ([125:59]).

• Team Culture and Leadership: Emphasizing the importance of character, Dillingham highlights unsung heroes like safety Xavian Alford, who contribute significantly behind the scenes, reinforcing the team’s values of hard work and integrity ([126:04]).

Notable Quote:

“Be a good person. Make good decisions. And have more fun working harder than anyone in the country. You want to have a lot of fun working your ass off. This is spot for you.” ([127:24])

---

5. Light-Hearted and Interactive Segments

Throughout the episode, Big Cat and PFT Commenter engage in humorous banter, addressing listener interactions from segments like “Hot Seat” and “Cool Throne.” They discuss various offbeat topics, share personal anecdotes, and react to listener reviews, adding a relatable and entertaining layer to the sports discourse.

Examples:

• Discussing listener reviews about relationships and personal habits humorously, such as dealing with questions about personal activities when away from partners ([147:57] – [153:49]).
• Engaging in playful debates about fictional scenarios and humorous public figures, maintaining an engaging and light-hearted tone.

---

Conclusion

This episode of Pardon My Take offers a comprehensive blend of in-depth sports analysis, candid interviews with prominent figures like Steve Young and Kenny Dillingham, and the hosts’ trademark humor and relatability. Whether dissecting the Bengals' potential resurgence, critiquing coaching strategies, or exploring the nuances of the College Football Playoff system, Big Cat and PFT Commenter provide listeners with insightful perspectives and entertaining commentary. Their interviews add valuable firsthand insights from both an NFL legend and a rising college football coach, making this episode a must-listen for sports enthusiasts seeking both knowledge and entertainment.

Transcript

[Big Cat]

Hey, pardon my take listeners. You can find every episode on Apple podcasts, Spotify or YouTube Prime. Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Great football teams are built by having the right capability in the right positions. It's the same with great trucks like Chevy Silverado. You start off under the hood with four powerful engine choices that deliver massive towing capacity. Then you've got available onboard technology that gives you extra peace of mind while towing. Finally, the rugged, purposeful design of Silverado screams grit and determination just like a winning football team. Visit Chevy.com to learn more and build your own Chevy Silverado. Today on today's part of my take, we've got an awesome, awesome twofer for the people. We got Steve Young, hall of Famer. Incredible interview with him. First time on. We've been trying to get him on for a really long time. And then we have a great interview with head coach Kenny Dillingham from the Arizona State Sun Devils. Really fun talking to him talking about the College Football Playoff winning the Big 12, maybe PFT trying out for kicker next year. We're going to talk some Monday Night Football. We're going to talk some college football. We got Hot seat, Cool throne, we got guys on chicks and it's all brought to you by our friends at DraftKings. It's the most wonderful time of the year. Holidays on the house at DraftKings Casino. With this season offerings, you'll unwrap everything on your list. Exclusive games, huge jackpots and exciting rewards. DraftKings is offering a warm welcome to new players with 100 instantly in casino credits with just a ten dollar wager. Plus everyone can get in on the action with a holiday reward every week. So sign up with code take because the holiday cheer is here only on the DraftKings casino. So go check it out right now on the DraftKings casino. We also have all of our bets on the DraftKings sportsbook app. Go do it right now. The crown is yours. Gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly. 21 and over physically present in Connecticut, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, West Virginia only Boyd in Ontario eligibility restrictions apply. New customers only opt in. Required casino credits are non withdrawable and expire in 168 hours [e-mail] promos welcome to Part in My Take presented by DraftKings. DraftKings is offering a warm welcome to new players with $100 instantly in casin credits with just a $10 wager. Plus everyone can get in on the action with a holiday reward every week. So sign up with code take because the holiday cheer is here only on the DraftKings casino. Today is Wednesday, December 11th, and PFT. I kind of want to believe in the Bengals again.

[PFT Commenter]

Let's go.

[Big Cat]

Jamar Chase is so goddamn good, it's actually insane to watch. And I know the Cowboys are bad, and I know the Bengals are bad, but I don't like Jamar Chase, what he's doing this year. And every single play he feels like he's open. And even if he's not open, Joe Burrow is going to throw it to him and then he will get open. That was. It's too little, too late for the Bengals, but even still watching them and watching their offense and obviously we had the Leon let play by the Cowboys, which was peak Cowboys and Mike McCarthy giving us our. His patented stare up at the Jumbotron being like, how can I reverse what just happened?

[PFT Commenter]

I have a suggestion for Mike McCarthy because this happens to him a lot. Something bad happens. You know, something bad has just happened in the game. As head coach, he forces himself to watch the replay of that bad thing over and over and just sit in that pain. Yeah, Mike, you got it. You got to stop doing that. You got to stop subjecting yourself to just trauma repeatedly over and over again. If something bad happens, yell at somebody. Which he did do last night. Mike McCarthy. Was he. I don't think that this is. Is this Mike McCarthy's best coaching job?

[Big Cat]

It might be. He also assaulted a cameraman.

[PFT Commenter]

He did assault a cameraman, but you're right.

[Big Cat]

Like, it's it. I will for forever. Like, I could be on my deathbed and I'll be. And someone will be like, hey, describe Mike McCarthy staring at a play that he wants to will into reversing. And it's like seared in my brain. It's that same dumb look where he looks up and he's like, if I stare at this Jumbotron long enough with my fat chins, I can get everything to change. And it never changes.

[PFT Commenter]

And Dallas was the worst place for him to go because they have a giant screen hanging directly above the field. If it was anywhere else, you're just going to see him staring off into the distance.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

But yeah, with this. It's something that we see all the time from him. That was a weird way to end the game. And Joe Burrow said it best. Like, it's about time that one of these broke in our favor.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, he finally got a bounce.

[PFT Commenter]

And McCarthy talked about what happened after the play. He said that the crowd actually had a lot to do with it. So the punt was blocked. And then. I don't know. How do you pronounce the guy's name?

[Big Cat]

I don't know.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, he just came off injured reserve and I'm gonna. I'm gonna butcher it if I try to do it. But he heard the crowd and the crowd was excited because the punt was blocked and he saw the ball in front of him and it was just one of those moments.

[Big Cat]

Grab ball.

[PFT Commenter]

He called it a vice moment where he was stuck in a vice. Yeah, C ball. Tried to grab ball. It didn't work out for him, but, yeah, I guess it's nice to see the Bengals win a game. As you know, after that. They've lost so many games where they played good enough to beat almost any other team if their defense wasn't so bad.

[Big Cat]

Right.

[PFT Commenter]

And this one, they didn't play exceptionally well, but they managed to figure out a way to win at the end. And yeah, don't take anything away from Chase Young and Joe because what they're doing is just crazy.

[Big Cat]

It's crazy.

[PFT Commenter]

It always works.

[Big Cat]

It's crazy. And I know the Bengals have virtually no chance of. Can we pull up the playoffs predictor. I mean, I think it's like 10% chance or something. They'd have to run the table. The one good news for them is they do play the Broncos in a couple weeks and Broncos are the 7 seed right now. But I think they would need. I think they would have to win out. I think the Colts will have to beat the. Or the Colts would have to be the Broncos and the Colts would have to lose out, and the Broncos would also have to lose out. So it's. What is it, 3%, 3%. So not even close to 10%, but it would just be. It's fun. I just want them to have a chance in week 18. I don't think they're going to get it, but it's. There's so much fun to watch. And Joe Burrows having an all time year and you just sit there and you look at it, it's torture for Bengals fans because they can look at every game and be like, man, if we had just gotten one bounce, if they, if they had six wins right now, if they were six and seven, they would have a legitimate chance of, of running the table and making the playoffs. But just one bounce didn't go Their way until last night.

[PFT Commenter]

I do like the headline that they put on ESPN afterwards. G. Hertz, Cowboys playoff hopes. Yeah, that's one way to look at it.

[Big Cat]

That was. They were in the playoffs.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

Okay.

[PFT Commenter]

They had hopes of being.

[Big Cat]

They had hopes. They had hopes.

[PFT Commenter]

I want to talk real quick about the Simpsons broadcast.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Because I am. I'm a simpsons freak. I love the simpsons. I think seasons like three through eight are maybe some of the best television to ever be written and produced.

[Big Cat]

Okay.

[PFT Commenter]

I did watch the first half of the simpsons broadcast last night, and I don't know why it took me so long to remember this. The simpsons are a million times better in 2D.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

The Simpsons in 3D. Not that fun.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

I still watched it because it just made me think about being a kid watching the simpsons again.

[Big Cat]

I. I tried. It was so far behind.

[PFT Commenter]

It wasn't very far.

[Big Cat]

It's just too. It was too. It's hard to watch a game knowing that, like, you're two minutes behind. It's. It's actually torturous being like, oh, I. I wonder what happened. I already could know what happened if I was watching the real broadcast. So I watched. I actually watched with my son for, like, maybe 10 minutes. He was a little confused because he doesn't know who the simpsons are.

[PFT Commenter]

That's the other thing. Is, like, the Simpsons. I feel like our demographic.

[Big Cat]

Yes.

[PFT Commenter]

That's when the simpsons was gold. They've been on TV forever. But I don't feel like kids are growing up watching the simpsons right now.

[Hank]

I wasn't even allowed to watch the simpsons.

[Big Cat]

Oh, really? Yeah.

[Hank]

It was, like, not a. It was not like a kid show.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. It was kind of bad boy stuff.

[PFT Commenter]

If Hank had watched, I wasn't allowed.

[Big Cat]

To watch married with children.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. That was. That would come on after the Simpsons series.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. If Hank had grown up watching the simpsons, he would be a real. Today.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

He'd be, like, sarcastic and a hater and have a smart mouth.

[Hank]

Simpsons road rage, though. 3D game. Elite game.

[Big Cat]

Yes.

[Hank]

It's like Simpsons GTA.

[Big Cat]

Oh, yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

But I think that if they had made all the players different characters on the simpsons, that would have been a little bit better. But I started to figure out after, like, the second drive, whenever a player got on the field as, like, a Simpsons character, it was good. Homer was. Was Cooper rush, and he was like, here we go. Which they should have said it was a key that that guy was going to do something great. Like, Ralph wiggum does not have that type of lateral, quickness he doesn't have.

[Big Cat]

That dog in him.

[PFT Commenter]

When he gets put in at wide receiver, you know he's about to break the game.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Who? And I saw Lisa made that catch for a touchdown.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. Lisa did a little tiptoe down the sidelines.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. That was sick. Yeah. Lisa did the Chase Brown.

[PFT Commenter]

She did the Chase Young. She did not jump into the big Salvation army pot at the end.

[Big Cat]

Yes.

[PFT Commenter]

The sex cauldron.

[Big Cat]

That was cool.

[PFT Commenter]

But, yeah, Ralph Wiggum. I give Ralph Wiggum. He's my. He's my Gruden Grinder.

[Big Cat]

Okay. Nice. Yeah, I. I'm happy they tried. I don't know. You just can't be that far behind.

[Max]

Yeah.

[Hank]

I watched, like, one, maybe one drive. Not even.

[Big Cat]

Just can't be that far behind.

[PFT Commenter]

We just need a time. When they do one of these alternate broadcasts where they're cartoons and there's something, like, crazy and violent that happens on the field.

[Big Cat]

Like, you need the Miles Garrett.

[PFT Commenter]

You need a Miles Garrett. You need a Malice at the Palace. You need a fight between the two teams.

[Big Cat]

Pepper spray.

[PFT Commenter]

We don't root. Yeah, pepper spray would be great. We don't root for injuries. But seeing how they would deal with, like, Homer Simpson having a compound fracture.

[Big Cat]

Jamar Hamlin.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

Jamar Hamlin.

[PFT Commenter]

Any game.

[Big Cat]

Pray, praise, pray, prayers for Mo Cislack.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. In the south park game that they do when they substitute Kenny in for Demar Hamlin.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

You know, something bad's about to happen.

[Big Cat]

It's going to get really bad. What were you going to say, Max? Did you try to watch it?

[Jack]

I did some of the plays. You couldn't even see what was going on.

[Big Cat]

I know.

[Jack]

Like, the. The camera angles were crazy.

[PFT Commenter]

They.

[Jack]

They did one, like, drone view that was. Literally looked like you're watching from outer space. You couldn't see a single thing. That was.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, I think that happens when something goes wrong with the technology and they have, like, the far end zone camera where you can't see anything. Yeah, I think that's what that was. But, yeah, there were a few of those in the first half.

[Hank]

They need to sack up and just do it with. No, like, that's just the main broadcast.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Where it's like, this is the only way you can watch football tonight. I. I actually would respect that because you wouldn't know there was a delay. That would be it.

[PFT Commenter]

Have Joe Buck and Troy Aikman seriously calling the game.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. So far.

[PFT Commenter]

No, they got to get Al Michaels doing that game.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Sweet.

[Big Cat]

So, Max, you watch. You're a Monday Night guy.

[Jack]

I watched some of it.

[Big Cat]

Okay.

[PFT Commenter]

What'd you think?

[Jack]

I didn't like it.

[Big Cat]

Okay. That was. That was the review. Put. Put. Put it out there. That's the review. Okay. So just to clean up on week 14, it does feel we're down the home stretch. Everyone's done with their buys. Everyone's ready to go. Four games left. It feels like the playoff picture is pretty clear in that we know there's like a handful of teams that are still in it. And there's the in the hunt stuff is they got to clean it up at this point because I think. I mean, the Cowboys, the Bears being those Patriots graphic. Were. They were in the hunt. They have. They've been eliminated. Now.

[Max]

That's.

[PFT Commenter]

That's patronizing.

[Hank]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

But technically, in the NFC, I think. I think 15 out of the 16 teams are still not eliminated, which is. Can we just. We need a different elimination tag where it's like you're. You're not technically eliminated, but. Dude, get. Get a fucking grip.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. Code blue, everyone.

[Big Cat]

From the Saints on down. Saints, Cowboys, Bears, Panthers. Just. Just be like, hey, I know technically not, but you're. You're brain dead. If you're actually thinking the Panthers still.

[PFT Commenter]

Being in the hunt is just wild.

[Big Cat]

No one wants to play them.

[PFT Commenter]

No one wants to play Panthers right now.

[Big Cat]

No one wants to play them. Well, that's because the NFC south is always. The NFC south keeps everyone in the hunt for as long as possible.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, that. That in the Hunt graphic, Man, I used to love that in the Hunt graphic until I realized what it was doing to me.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Now you're. Now you're out of the. In the hunt. You're.

[PFT Commenter]

I'm eating.

[Big Cat]

You're in it. You're in the.

[PFT Commenter]

You're in it for now.

[Big Cat]

All the way in it. So there was one thing story. We should probably talk about NFL before we talk a little college football.

[PFT Commenter]

What's this going to be?

[Big Cat]

This is going to be Brandon Graham from the Philadelphia Eagles going on a radio show on Monday and essentially saying that Jalen Hurts and AJ Brown don't fuck with each other. They don't like each other.

[PFT Commenter]

No. They used to fuck with.

[Big Cat]

They used to be friends.

[PFT Commenter]

They used to be friends.

[Big Cat]

Friends anymore.

[PFT Commenter]

And now they're. Now they're just teammates.

[Big Cat]

That's not trouble in paradise. What did he say?

[Jack]

He said that they used to be friends before being teammates. They were friends before the. Like the draft. And then when you become teammates, things can get a little bit dicey, and he made assumptions after Watching that video without knowing anything. And that's what he said after the fact that no one else is picking up on that. On that part of his statement.

[Big Cat]

Oh, you're saying no one's picking up on the part of the statement where after he said what he said and everyone was like, oh, this sounds bad. He then did a retraction. We shouldn't. We shouldn't note the retraction where he was like, yeah, oh, I stepped in it. I maybe shouldn't have said this.

[Jack]

No, he was just making assumptions. He doesn't know anything. And that he was just making assumptions just like everyone else was watching the video.

[PFT Commenter]

So. So Brandon Graham watching. He doesn't have any further context to this than you or I would have watching the no play on television.

[Jack]

Nope.

[PFT Commenter]

He's just a fan.

[Jack]

That's what he said.

[Big Cat]

It was great, too, because then to got involved with Donovan.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

It's just like peak Philadelphia. Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Say to me, to my face. Don't say through the media.

[Big Cat]

We actually should just play the video I sent you, Max. Now, I don't know if you guys saw this, but this is. I actually think that this might be a sign that the Eagles are ready to go on a Super bowl run because they're what, 11 and 2, and they've won how many games in a row, Max? Eight games in a row. Nine games.

[Jack]

Nine games in a row.

[Big Cat]

Nine games in a row. Everything's going well. They now have players talking about players. Old players talking about old players. And this was. This was after. I think this is a crossing broad, guys. They did a good job with Kyle Pagan.

[Jack]

He's a good. He does a good job.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. So shout out him. Great video. This is after the Eagles have won their ninth game in a row. He interviewed people coming out of the link. And this is. I saw this video and I was like, this could not sum up the Philadelphia Eagle fan base more. And I wouldn't have it any other way. So go ahead, play the video. Carolina Panthers.

[PFT Commenter]

I don't know why we're struggling with Carolina. They suck.

[Big Cat]

They won two and 15 lives. We should have killed them. Jalen Hurts is not the answer.

[Hank]

That sounds like Max.

[Big Cat]

We have a number one defense.

[Max]

Running back.

[Big Cat]

Jalen Hurts is not the answer.

[Jack]

I would never say that.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Time win Hertz balling out. It's like he didn't do anything.

[Big Cat]

Get a new quarterback.

[PFT Commenter]

Maybe draft like Jackson Dodd or like Jim Brown.

[Big Cat]

Not getting enough touches. A.J.

[Max]

Brown, man. I would not let Nick Sirianni come to the game.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Within the first half because then he couldn't call the first out of plays. He can let Kellen Moore just run Saquon Barkley the entire time and we.

[Big Cat]

Would win the game within the first half.

[Max]

We gotta run the ball.

[Big Cat]

I don't know what we're doing.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Why second and 1.

[Max]

Run the freaking football.

[Big Cat]

What would you do differently if you coached? I would give Saquon the ball every.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Time and I would pass to A.J.

[Big Cat]

Brown when he opened. It's that easy. Nick Sirianni. The Eagles should have won by more. I'm disappointed.

[PFT Commenter]

12 and a half point favorites.

[Big Cat]

You got to smack these dudes. They were just jerking around. Jerking around, jerking around.

[PFT Commenter]

Stop jerking around.

[Big Cat]

I beat the teams you need to beat.

[Max]

Still super bowl hosts.

[Big Cat]

Absolutely. At the end of the day, we're all delusional. We go to the ball, give victory swig. Go Birds, baby. Never endow miss. It's hard to win in this league.

[PFT Commenter]

True or false?

[Big Cat]

So true.

[PFT Commenter]

It's hard to win in this league. True.

[Jack]

But a win is a win, isn't it?

[Big Cat]

Wins, always a win.

[Max]

It's the last night of the ERAS.

[Big Cat]

Tour, so I'm looking forward to getting.

[Max]

Home and live streaming that.

[Jack]

But the Birds are great.

[Big Cat]

Go Birds.

[Max]

Taylor's an Eagles fan.

[Big Cat]

I mean, that's just. There are nine wins. Could you imagine what I'd be saying if I was an 11 and 2 team? If the Bears were 11 and 2 and nine wins in a row? Like having people be like, yeah, Jalen hurts. Not the guy we need. Jalen Milro or Jackson.

[PFT Commenter]

Jackson Dart was a great one. Yeah. Max, as an Eagles fan, what would your reaction be if the Eagles team booed you guys?

[Big Cat]

Oh, reverse.

[PFT Commenter]

They might need to turn it around.

[Jack]

Yeah, well, I mean, that would just turn into a disaster.

[Big Cat]

It'd be a boo theory.

[Jack]

In theory, I would appreciate it and I would understand it.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Jack]

But in reality, it would be a disaster. People would get so angry. I mean, it would basically like when Nick Sirianni started yelling at the fans.

[PFT Commenter]

But it might. It might end up like, resulting in good things.

[Jack]

No, that would be the biggest Philly.

[PFT Commenter]

Story of all time. Like the Eagles start booing you guys, you boo them back and then they just don't stop winning.

[Jack]

No, no, no. Because then that would be civil war. You can't have.

[Big Cat]

You can't have civil war divided. Yeah.

[Jack]

It has to be a one way street. I'm sorry. It has to be a one way street.

[PFT Commenter]

So what's the official statement on AJ Brown and Jalen hurts not getting Along?

[Big Cat]

Yes.

[PFT Commenter]

Being friends.

[Big Cat]

Good question.

[Jack]

They are friends.

[PFT Commenter]

No, they used to be friends. If I were to say, hey, big cat and I used to be friends, then I've started doing the podcast, you would be like, that doesn't sound good. Memes would start looking for a job.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Everyone would be like, what do you mean, used to be friends? You don't say used to be friends for someone that you're friends with.

[Jack]

No, they. It just means that they were friends before they were teammates. And it got lost in translation.

[PFT Commenter]

Mitch had like, they do. I used to do drugs. I still do them, but I used to also.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, no, you used to be friends is not a good thing to say about someone.

[PFT Commenter]

Like, I used to date this chick. Would you say that about your girlfriend?

[Jack]

They literally did this handshake last week. They did. They did the Fresh Prince handshake.

[Big Cat]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Jack]

So, like, they had a bad week. Sometimes. Sometimes Memes comes into the office on a day of work and wants to kill pft.

[Hank]

Yeah, but they're co workers, not friends.

[Jack]

They're also.

[Big Cat]

But wait. And also, the memes and PFT definitely used to be friends. Yeah, you could absolutely say that about them.

[PFT Commenter]

We used to be friends before the lottery.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Yeah. No, and then, you know, sometimes in the. In, like, the workplace, things get heated at some point.

[PFT Commenter]

We might.

[Jack]

At the end of the day, you're still friends.

[Big Cat]

I don't know about.

[PFT Commenter]

We might be friends again at some point.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

That's up to Memes.

[Big Cat]

It was just very funny. Like, the whole, like, to then going.

[Jack]

After Tom was crazy. Do we read the to tweet?

[Big Cat]

No. Find it. It's just. Oh, you guys are 11 and 2.

[Jack]

I know, I know. It's. I don't know.

[Big Cat]

Philly media, tough place to play.

[Jack]

It's a tough place to play.

[Hank]

The fans. That wasn't really the media tough place.

[Jack]

Brandon Graham literally went on, oh, I thought Philly sports talk radio.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

So why did. That's the other thing. Like, if you're Brandon Graham, you probably know that there's certain things that you shouldn't say because it will cause a shitstorm in Philly. And he went ahead and said him anyways. That. That's what tells me that there might be something to it.

[Big Cat]

Wait, what do you think would cause a shitstorm? Saying, like, Jalen Hurts and A.J. brown used to be friends.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Oh, whatever.

[Big Cat]

All right. T o said so Don McNabb on A.J. brown's potential frustrations. He said, with Jalen hurts, it's two grown men. If you go, got an issue, you come to me. Let's not go through the media, because now it blows up. And now what you said is out there in front of everybody. And then to. Then came over the top and said, now this is interesting. Is coming from you. Not how I interpret it. But funny thing is, I agree with you on the idea if you have an issue with someone that you go to them and not the media. But here's the thing. I never had an issue with you, but it's known that you had an issue with me. So maybe you should have taken your advice here. Oh, yeah, and we might have won Super Bowl 39, but that's another story for another day. Just my two cents. You gave yours, I'm giving mine. Hey, Freddie Mitchell, thanks for sharing.

[Jack]

That's my favorite part. Like saying like, yeah, Freddie Mitchell texted this to me, so I had to speak. And then Fred X is the first reply saying, popcorn activated.

[Big Cat]

There's no place like Philly. It's just so funny. You just can't even. You. You got. You got. You got simultaneously simultaneous wide receiver QB beefs going on old ones and new ones. You're basically like, hey, this. This summer we're going to do Top Gun and Top Gun 2. We're going to play it in the same theater. That's what you guys are doing right now.

[Jack]

But that was real beef. T O and McNabb was real beef. AJ Brown and Jalen Hurts is not real beef.

[PFT Commenter]

Like, at the time, though, do you think people were saying that's real beef?

[Jack]

Maybe also AJ Brown that has to be in the touchdown score this week.

[Big Cat]

Oh, okay. That's conviction.

[Jack]

Has to be in the touchdown. That, like, you know that they're going to find a way to feed him the ball.

[Big Cat]

I agree. I agree. I agree. Hank, are you loving this?

[Hank]

Oh, yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

What are your thoughts, Hank?

[Hank]

I mean, that's. Boston was kind of the same way. Like, it's just kind of good Sports town. Degenerate Sports town. Angry sports town.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

Used to be beef. Yeah.

[Hank]

Like, there's just never used to be friends. You're never. You're never going to be happy.

[Jack]

Tom Brady also wasn't best friends with all his receivers, although I don't even want to say that him and Julian.

[PFT Commenter]

Drove to practice together, like, every day.

[Hank]

But Antonio Brown live in his house.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Not all of them.

[Big Cat]

All right.

[PFT Commenter]

I think he. I think he was.

[Hank]

Yeah, pretty much everyone except. What, like, Aaron Hernandez.

[Big Cat]

Yep.

[Jack]

Aaron Hernandez was a great player for the Patriots.

[Big Cat]

And they used to be friends. Probably yeah. Yeah. And then what happened? Okay. Anything else from week 14? I'm excited for some from the stretch run of football.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

I'm ready to go. I'm ready for playoffs. I was saying that on Sunday nights, like, we're at the point of the season where there's a lot of games that just mean nothing, and I want playoff football here. I'm ready to get the playoff. I'm ready to get the tournament started.

[PFT Commenter]

It's the best. And the playoff simulator is really rounding to form now. When they put it out, like, week 12, there's too many things that you have to click to get your scenarios going.

[Big Cat]

So it. I know you're a big playoff simulator guy. How many games do you have to win to feel very safe? Two.

[PFT Commenter]

I think three.

[Big Cat]

I feel like you guys, if you want two, you should be.

[PFT Commenter]

I'm afraid. I'm afraid of the Rams slash Seahawks.

[Big Cat]

But they all have to play each other, too.

[PFT Commenter]

I know, but I. I would feel comfortable if we won three.

[Big Cat]

And you have Saints.

[PFT Commenter]

We got Saints. Ben Denucci just signed.

[Big Cat]

Okay.

[PFT Commenter]

For the Saints, so I'm gonna have to kill him. Then. We've got Eagles, Eagles, Falcons, Cowboys.

[Big Cat]

I think you get two wins.

[PFT Commenter]

Yep.

[Big Cat]

I think three, but I think you'll be okay with two.

[Jack]

Saints is a must win. Saints is a must win.

[PFT Commenter]

Must win this weekend. Marshawn Lattimore revenge game.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Because you don't want to come down to the last three with the Eagles, Falcons, and Cowboys.

[Jack]

And the Falcons are fighting for that. That game.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Although they might not be at that point.

[PFT Commenter]

Hank, how. How many games do we need to win for you to feel very scared about your. Your bet?

[Hank]

If you beat the Saints, it's pretty much over.

[Big Cat]

Oh, so you. They're just one win, and according to.

[PFT Commenter]

Your calculations, we get in with nine wins?

[Hank]

No, but I don't think you're gonna lose three straight.

[Big Cat]

They literally just did.

[PFT Commenter]

I hope not.

[Big Cat]

Right?

[Max]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Well, that was. That was a hard schedule.

[Big Cat]

That was a hard schedule. I think they're good. I think two. I think if you get two wins, it's going to be hard because if you get two wins, the Rams will have to run the table, essentially.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. So I would feel. I'd feel great with three wins.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Yeah. If you. In three, then they actually do have to run the table. They have to win all three. All four games. Okay. Let's do a little college football, then we'll get to Hot Sea Cool Throne. We were brought to you by our friends at Diamonds direct. All right. Guys, listen up. This year, you stop procrastinating on that holiday shopping list, get ahead of the game and head over to your local Diamonds Direct. They've got amazing deals running now through Christmas on her dream engagement ring, necklaces, watches, earrings, and so much more. And here's the best part. With every piece you pick up, you're not only enjoying incredible quality and value, but you're also getting a lifetime guarantee that covers cleanings, maintenance, and sizing for life. So you save money now and later. No more last minute panic. This year you'll be the guy relaxing by the tree with everything wrapped and ready to go while everyone else is Christmas Eve shopping. So go right now, Diamonds Direct. Don't wait. Lock in those deals today and thank us later. Diamonds Direct, the smart way to shop this holiday season. Shop now for the perfect holiday gift events and promotions now until Christmas. You're probably listening this right now. You're like, I haven't done any Christmas shopping yet. Well, go right now, Diamonds Direct. Get it done and your significant other will love it. We also brought to you by ourselves. Pardon my Cheesesteak. Football is in full gear. Order part of my cheesesteak now for your game day meal or late night eats. And the best play call you can make with classic cheesesteaks, Chipotle cheesesteaks, chicken cheesesteaks, buffalo chicken, cheesesteaks, and many, many more. Part of my Cheesesteaks brings you awesome cheesesteaks, loaded fries delivered right to your doorstep. And we'll be offering free delivery throughout the entire football season. So find a part of my cheesesteak near you and order yours [e-mail] use code AWL for free delivery. Okay, Little college football, we have our Heisman finalists, Ashton Gentee, Boise State, Cam Ward, Miami. Dylan Gabriel, Oregon. And Travis Hunter, Colorado. I think voting has already been done, so we don't even have to say anything. Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

So one guy I would have liked to see is Cam Scattabo.

[Big Cat]

Yep.

[PFT Commenter]

He would have been a nice addition to that group. But besides that, I think those are four worthy guys.

[Big Cat]

I think Shador might have had a case. Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, it's. Those are. Those are the four that I kind of expected. It was funny, the graphic that they put out there. Had Cam ward listed as 42,000 yards.

[PFT Commenter]

That would be a record that would.

[Big Cat]

Be very hard to beat.

[PFT Commenter]

I know his defense is bad, but.

[Big Cat]

I mean, 42,000 yards.

[PFT Commenter]

Now, Cam Ward did have an outstanding season.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

And the defense was a huge liability for him. So some of those wins that were like, you know, down to the wire where it could have gone either way. That's all because Cam Ward was so good throughout those entire games.

[Big Cat]

Yes, yes. So we'll find out on Saturday night who wins the Heisman. But yeah, they all, all are incredible college football players. All worthy of the award. All deserving of the award.

[PFT Commenter]

If it were up to me, I would split it. Yeah, I think it would be a four way tie if it were up to me.

[Big Cat]

Honestly, with the votes already being in. I'll say it right now, if I had to vote today, after the votes are in, I'd probably vote Ash and Genti.

[PFT Commenter]

I go Cam Ward, but yeah, Cam Ward, Genti and then I go Hun third.

[Big Cat]

But the votes are already in. Yep. So there's nothing that can be done at this point. They're already in.

[PFT Commenter]

When you fill out a Heisman vote, is that done all online?

[Big Cat]

I don't know. Actually, I feel like that Heisman is one of those awards they make you mail a.

[PFT Commenter]

Mail in ballots. That's an issue for me. Yeah, no, it might be on verification.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, it might be online, but. So we have the College Football Playoff. We have all the bowls. We talked about it briefly on Sunday, but the more I think about it, the more they really, I'm not mad, but it's so clear they need to figure out how to fix this so that the buy system is. Makes more sense.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, they, they wanted to put a big emphasis on winning your conference, which I understand. Well, I get it. And with the, with the idea that traditionally in the past there have been four conferences that had elite teams that ended up winning those.

[Big Cat]

Right.

[PFT Commenter]

But they didn't think about the scenario where it's like, okay, if we, if we have Boise State, they get to buy, how would that impact the rest of the schedule?

[Big Cat]

Right. And I get it too, because it's a money maker and that's all that matters. They didn't want to, you know, devalue the conference championships, which they was still an incredible Saturday and obviously Clemson getting, hitting a walk off field goal to get in was awesome. Get rid of the conference championships if you're going to do it this way. Get rid of the conference championships and just have the playoffs start that weekend. Yeah. Like have it be the first weekend of December. Have it be 16 teams or whatever it is. 14 teams have the first round be that weekend. And let's just get it going.

[PFT Commenter]

The committee kind of boxed themselves in by talking about conference championships not being a factor in eliminating a Team.

[Big Cat]

Right.

[PFT Commenter]

If SMU had gotten blown out.

[Big Cat]

Right.

[PFT Commenter]

Do you think that they would have been out?

[Big Cat]

I do.

[PFT Commenter]

I think they probably would have been too. If it was like a 30 point loss.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

I think it's a liability for teams.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

So, yeah, I don't know. They'll probably never get rid of the conference championships just because you're right. It makes a lot of money.

[Big Cat]

It makes a lot of money. But I think it would, I think it would. If you expand the playoff, then you get the money there.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. I mean the way that they.

[Hank]

64 teams.

[Big Cat]

Top four teams, not 64 teams.

[PFT Commenter]

Top four teams get a buy.

[Big Cat]

Top four teams should get a buy. Because as it stands right now and I. Boise.

[Max]

Good.

[Big Cat]

I think Boise could beat anyone. I think Arizona State could beat anyone. We're going to talk to Kenny Dillingham in a minute. But it just, it's. When I look at the bracket, the thing that keeps sticking out is like Oregon had by far and away the best season in college football. They did not lose a game. They played in a Power 5 con, Power 4 conference. They got tested in big time games and they passed every test. And they are the one seed, rightfully so. And their matchup potentially is going to be Ohio State or Tennessee in the first round, which. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[PFT Commenter]

No, it doesn't. It doesn't. It ended up rewarding Penn State for losing the conference championship game.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. And, and, and by the way, Penn State and Notre Dame in that bottom part of the bracket with Georgia now having Carson Beck out probably for the rest of the year. That's. They're live. Those teams are live.

[PFT Commenter]

What is Penn State now? 650.

[Jack]

That was on Sunday. I can look at.

[PFT Commenter]

I might have.

[Big Cat]

There is. Live his life. Could be.

[PFT Commenter]

I might have to wet the beak on that.

[Big Cat]

But it's big game, James. And he can't win a big game.

[PFT Commenter]

That's fair.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. He's. He's what? Owen? 12, I think, versus top five teams.

[PFT Commenter]

One thing that I've really loved though is, is the crying about out of conference scheduling. That's happened.

[Big Cat]

Yes.

[PFT Commenter]

And it's been, it's been continuing.

[Jack]

He beat Ohio State once.

[Big Cat]

He did beat Ohio State once. But were they ranked? Were they ranked top five?

[Jack]

I believe so.

[Max]

Mmm.

[Big Cat]

Double check that.

[PFT Commenter]

Does this count as big game, Max?

[Big Cat]

Penn State, Ohio State, smu.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. Does Penn State, SMU count as a big game?

[Jack]

I would say no. Penn State upsets number two, Ohio.

[Big Cat]

Okay, so he's 1 1. He's 1.

[Max]

1.

[Big Cat]

No, I would say. I think. I think he's. He's safe. SMU doesn't count as a big game.

[PFT Commenter]

This is not a big game.

[Jack]

Yeah, no, it's a big game.

[PFT Commenter]

Oh, it is a big game. That's bad.

[Jack]

I don't know.

[Big Cat]

No, I don't think it's a big game.

[Jack]

But then you're not looking at it. Then you're not taking the game seriously and you got to take the game seriously. It's a big.

[Big Cat]

No, I think you got to take the game not seriously.

[PFT Commenter]

It's a big game then. Big game, James.

[Jack]

True.

[Big Cat]

Are they allowed to do a white out?

[Jack]

They are doing a white out.

[Big Cat]

Oh, is it noon?

[Jack]

It's at noon.

[Big Cat]

Love it.

[PFT Commenter]

I love this conversation because we're essentially having the can't win or can't win, must win conversation, just in completely different terms.

[Big Cat]

Yes. Yes.

[PFT Commenter]

You got to figure out if it's a big game though, prior to kickoff.

[Jack]

But I don't know. You don't want it to be a big game, right?

[Kenny Dillingham]

No.

[Big Cat]

You don't want it to be a big game.

[Jack]

So yeah, no.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. You want SMU to come out in Purdue's uniforms.

[Jack]

I mean, SMU, it's going to be like 15 degrees in State College.

[Big Cat]

Oh, wow. Yeah, that's big.

[Jack]

I mean, that's big.

[PFT Commenter]

Not shoot for that weather.

[Big Cat]

They're not built.

[PFT Commenter]

But yeah. They're crying about out of conference scheduling from the SEC has been very funny because I don't think any of these coaches have realized that if you don't schedule good out of conference teams, guess what that means? That there's going to be other teams from other conferences that don't have SEC out of conference games on their schedule.

[Big Cat]

Right, right.

[PFT Commenter]

And going back to like Alabama's schedule, you lost to Vanderbilt in your conference, you lost Oklahoma in your conference. So that's not really what it gets down to, but it's driving people insane. There was an op ed that was written in al.comalabama.com and it was, Should Alabama join the ACC? Oh, let's have the conversation I had.

[Big Cat]

I like this because I had someone replying to me the other day that said LSU should just join the Sunbelt. Yeah. So same feeling. Yeah. Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

So if, if LSU joined the Sunbelt, they would probably win the Sunbelt. Well, maybe not Brian Kelly would find a way to lose, but if Alabama joined the acc, he would probably win the ACC and then ensure himself of a buy in the College Football Playoff. This person says, if South Carolina had been in the acc. They would have made the playoffs this year. If Alabama had been in the Big 12, they would have been as well. The same would have been true for Mississippi if they had been in the Mountain West. That would be an interesting one.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Move Mississippi out to the Mountain West. Why go through the meat grinder that is the SEC every week when you can cruise to an automatic bid in to the CFP and any of the other cupcake conferences? The bottom line, and it's an ugly truth to be sure, is that the other conferences outside the SEC and Big Ten are no longer viable as they exist today. The Pac12 teams figure this out pretty quickly and bolted for the Big Ten where Oregon is currently the number one team in the country. I like that. Take that the Oregon going to the Big Ten.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Is equivalent to Alabama going to the acc.

[Big Cat]

Acc. Yeah. I mean it's. First of all, I think the SEC was just not as good this year and we're going off of old SEC like they're still probably the best conference, but it wasn't like elite. Elite to that level.

[PFT Commenter]

I think they're the deepest conference.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. And but you. Alabama was a 18 point favorite against Vanderbilt. They were 21 point favorite against Oklahoma. Like they, they were a flawed football team. I don't know any real Alabama fan could straight face like there's a difference between saying you want to be in because it's the team you root for and you think you might be better than smu. And I can buy that argument. But you can't sit there and be like we were not a flawed football team because they were. They. That's just what happened during the season. I also think weirdly the, the entire backlash to like we'll never schedule a strong out of conference. Like obviously Wisconsin was down this year but like if Alabama had, let's just say played Oregon Week 1 and beaten them, they might have been in with 3 SEC losses because everyone been like holy shit, they beat the number one team. You know, like they, they're out of conference. They went and proved another one.

[PFT Commenter]

But let's just say it was an up year for Wisconsin. Right. One of. One of your good seasons. If you didn't have that game scheduled against Alabama and you had just steamrolled a weaker Big Ten schedule, if you bounced your way, then that would actually favor you and not the sec.

[Big Cat]

Right.

[PFT Commenter]

Because it would mean that you would have one less hard game to.

[Big Cat]

Right, Right. Which would have been. Yeah. Right. It would have been like Indiana didn't play an SEC team Right. And they, they're in.

[PFT Commenter]

And they're in.

[Big Cat]

And if they maybe played an SEC team, they would have maybe been out and Alabama would have been.

[PFT Commenter]

And then in the future, if all these SEC athletic directors are like, we're not going to schedule hard games like against Indiana out of conference because there's no, there's no reason for us to do that. No benefit, then you might wind up at a stereo where Indiana gets a playoff spot because you didn't schedule them.

[Big Cat]

Right. If Indiana had played South Carolina week two.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

And lost to South Carolina, Alabama would probably be in.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. See how this works?

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

It's like a giant ecosystem.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Yeah, it is very funny. We also. Are you going to do Bill Belichick for your hot sequel Throne, or. We want to talk about it because he looks like, it looks like he's going to take the North Carolina job.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

Which I think he's going to be successful. And I know that this is probably just because he gave his pitch on McAfee show on Monday and I am a sucker for a good pitch, but he essentially was like, we're going to be an NFL factory where we're just going to train guys to get to the NFL.

[PFT Commenter]

He had a 400 page document, a manifesto Bible. That's a manifesto.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Manifesto is working college football.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Manifesto is hot right now.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, it is very hot. So I, I don't know because he's, he's on the older side for sure. I don't know how he'll do in terms of recruiting. There's a lot more that goes into it. Once the players get in the door, then I'm sure that he'll be fine. He'll be good.

[Hank]

You assume because he kind of went in with the clause that his son gets to take over when he stops, that his son will probably do a lot of the recruiting.

[Big Cat]

Right. And I really do think that if you are matter of fact, he's going.

[Hank]

To be the closer.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. If you're a matter of fact. To these both transfer kids and like I think he'll crush in the transfer portal because if he just says, hey, I'm not going to try to sell you on like this idea that we're going to, we're competing for national titles right away or I'm going to get you ready to play football at the National Football League level and there's no one better that knows that than me. That's, that's a lot of kids will probably buy in on that because that's the goal. Like College football is. That's the goal now.

[PFT Commenter]

So Belichick making his son head coach in waiting. Hank, I know that you were a big fan when LeBron James got his son drafted by the Lakers.

[Hank]

No, continue.

[PFT Commenter]

Okay, so what's. What's the difference with this?

[Hank]

Coaching is a lot different than playing well.

[PFT Commenter]

You have to be. Yeah, you definitely have to be qualified, which he is. Has he been a head coach?

[Hank]

No, but he's worked his way up the ranks as any head coach that's ever head coached in the history of coaching has.

[PFT Commenter]

Where did he work his way up the ranks?

[Hank]

Right now he's working in Washington. He was, you know, special assistant. Then he was whatever, like cornerbacks coach and he was D coordinator. Like, he worked his way up the rare position by position.

[PFT Commenter]

Where did he work his way up.

[Hank]

There in New England, but now he's coaching at Washington.

[PFT Commenter]

Okay, all right. It's just interesting. Good dad.

[Hank]

How many. How many coaches, like, did Kyle. Is Kyle Shanahan, did he work his way up the ranks?

[Big Cat]

There's.

[Hank]

There's a million there. Football is like the most. Basketball is different. There's not a lot of examples of nepotism, drafts. There's a million examples of nepotism coaching.

[Big Cat]

He's doing a good job of arguing his point.

[PFT Commenter]

That.

[Big Cat]

That was actually a really good job arguing. That is.

[PFT Commenter]

That is a fair point.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, I would say.

[PFT Commenter]

I would say good dad, though. I was not trying to denigrate Steve. I was saying Belichick.

[Hank]

It sounds like you were, though.

[PFT Commenter]

Good dad.

[Hank]

No, sounds like he does. You don't think he does?

[Big Cat]

Yeah, because It's.

[PFT Commenter]

It's a LeBron, Belichick, Joe Biden, great fathers all hooking their sons up.

[Big Cat]

The point was, you know, nepotism shouldn't be able to work when you have to be skilled and play the actual position. Like, I mean, Steve Kerr's son is a coach. What's his name again?

[Hank]

Nicholas.

[Big Cat]

Okay. Yeah. Nicholas Kerr. And. But he. Like, there's. There's guys everywhere. It's crazy. It's crazy. It never. It never stops being crazy that he. It. Did they have a conversation at all? Did they. When they. When they. When they bird them, were they like, hey, like, I know the naming process. We had like a group of like three or four names. We went with the names we went with.

[PFT Commenter]

But, like, you got a focus group.

[Big Cat]

How did that not. How did that pass?

[PFT Commenter]

When you're telling the person what name to put on the birth certificate.

[Big Cat]

Right.

[PFT Commenter]

That's when you realize Nicholas.

[Big Cat]

It's Nicholas but, yeah. Hank, I'm really proud of you.

[Hank]

Thank you.

[Big Cat]

You argued your point very well.

[Hank]

I always do.

[Big Cat]

PFC tried to get you, and you didn't get God.

[PFT Commenter]

We're just having a conversation, having a debate. This is how we figure out what we truly believe in. It's the Socratic method.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Hank]

Socrates.

[Big Cat]

Who do you guys have winning the whole thing in the College Football Playoff?

[PFT Commenter]

I got Penn State.

[Big Cat]

Penn State.

[Hank]

Penn State will lose to, I guess.

[Big Cat]

Oregon in the final.

[Hank]

Is that possible?

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Hank]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. No, that is impossible. Yeah, that is possible.

[Jack]

No, it is, but I don't know.

[PFT Commenter]

Why everyone's picking Benton so Max would finish second.

[Hank]

Max is finished.

[Big Cat]

I'm gonna take Oregon.

[Hank]

He's losing in the championship.

[Big Cat]

I'm just gonna take Oregon.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, I mean, I said Oregon before the season started. And Texas.

[Hank]

How are you not taking Texas?

[PFT Commenter]

What do you mean?

[Hank]

You are Texas.

[PFT Commenter]

I'm not Texas.

[Hank]

You are Texas.

[Big Cat]

Take Texas.

[Hank]

You love Texas.

[Big Cat]

Just take Texas.

[PFT Commenter]

I. I love the city of Austin.

[Big Cat]

Just take Texas.

[PFT Commenter]

I'm not. I'm not like a Longhorn fan.

[Big Cat]

Just take Texas.

[Hank]

Closeted.

[Jack]

I'll take Texas.

[PFT Commenter]

Okay. I'm gonna. I'm gonna take. I'm gonna take.

[Hank]

You never had any bias towards Texas football.

[PFT Commenter]

I like going to the games, and I like tailgating and drinking beer.

[Jack]

That's a. That's like enough of a reason for you to be not like a die.

[Big Cat]

Hard fan, but like, yeah, like, yeah, it's okay.

[PFT Commenter]

I might be closet. I might be semi biased when people do horns down. It does not hurt me. It does not affect you.

[Big Cat]

So take Texas.

[PFT Commenter]

I'm going to take. I'm going to take Penn State.

[Big Cat]

Okay, so I have Oregon. You have Penn State. Max has Texas.

[Hank]

No, I'm taking Arizona State.

[Big Cat]

There we go.

[Hank]

I love it.

[Big Cat]

I want.

[Hank]

I don't think it works for college football, but it. If it was hockey or college basketball, they're the hottest team. Make a run.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Hank]

This is the first time there's ever been a playoff where it is like, you know, can a team go on a run? So it. Arizona State make a run? I don't think it applies, but I hope it does.

[Big Cat]

Who cares?

[PFT Commenter]

I mean, the funniest outcome I still think would be Ohio State.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, for sure. I'm just very interested to see, like, I. I will. I feel like we'll know within the first half of that first quarter where it's like, are they just a completely dead team or are they going to go to the national championship?

[Hank]

Indiana would be funny, too.

[Big Cat]

Indiana would Be great. Indiana would be awesome. All right, let's do hot seat, Cool Throne, and then we'll get to our interviews. We have Steve Young and Arizona State head coach Kenny Dillingham. Hot Seat, Cool throne brought to you by our friends at Coors Light. Holiday party fails can turn into a great story that ends with a toast over Coors Light. Getting snowed in can turn into the ultimate movie marathon. It doesn't matter if the holidays don't go as planned. When you choose chill and then reach for a Coors Light. When you embrace a chill mindset, this holiday, it's good time to choose chill and crack open a Coors Light. Coors Lights Mountain cold refreshment. Crisp and refreshing as the Rockies. Listen, there's nothing better than this stretch right now where it's like free rain to just booze up every single day, every single night. You got a holiday party. You got ugly sweater. I have a holiday party this weekend. Coors Light is there for you all December long. We love Coors Light shoes. Chill this holiday season, then reach for a Coors. Like it. Coors Light delivered straight to your door. Visit coorslite.com take or you can find it pretty much anywhere that sells beer. Celebrate responsibly. Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado. Okay, Hank. Hot sequel.

[Hank]

Trump my hot seat. I don't know why I wrote this in my notes. I just wrote fantasy. I don't know what that means.

[PFT Commenter]

Okay.

[Hank]

But the Yankees are also on the hot seat.

[Big Cat]

Oh, I had that.

[Hank]

The reason. One of the reported reasons that he didn't sign with the Yankees is because they didn't offer him a suite for his family. And that they once was that they kicked out someone from the. The VIP lounge. Like one of his cooks or assistants or something.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Hank]

Family member.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Hank]

So the Yankees lost out on a generational talent just because they were disrespectful.

[PFT Commenter]

How are Yankees fans taking this?

[Hank]

They're lashing out there.

[Big Cat]

It's. It's one of those moments that we all do this as fans, but when you're completely removed from it, it is so funny to watch because I've seen it all. Juan Soto is a terrible defender. Juan Soto is a liability. You're going to have to move him.

[Hank]

To DH not 26.

[Big Cat]

He's not 26. That he's going to be 40 years old making all that money. Actually, it's good that the Yankees didn't get them because now they can use that money to fill a bunch of different holes.

[PFT Commenter]

It's my favorite one.

[Big Cat]

It's the best. It's the best to watch because again, we all do it. Every single time. You'd miss out on a free agent or a draft pick, you're like, I never wanted that guy. That guy stinks. But they just flipped so fast when.

[PFT Commenter]

It comes to doing the.

[Big Cat]

That.

[PFT Commenter]

Now we can use all that money to fill these different holes. Yeah, you could have done that. There's no salary cap.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

You could have just gone ahead and spent money on top of money.

[Big Cat]

There also was one funny tweet that went semi viral that was. Made me laugh where someone's like, Juan Soto chose the bag over the over legacy.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

A Yankees fan saying someone chose a bag. It's just, it's great to watch. Especially the fact that it was the Mets. Also, Hank, there was a report that like, someone kicked his family out of. They kicked him out of suite. But then also it was like batting practice or something. Like basically.

[Hank]

Yeah, like something in the tunnel or like they basically like he had a family member just hanging out and they were like, you can't be here.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. And then Steve Cohen threw in a suite for him. Yeah. That's classic family suite.

[PFT Commenter]

Cohen said that he, he didn't think that he was going to win either. He thought that he was going to go to the Yankees until the very, very last second. They had like a last minute negotiation. But yeah, Stephen Cohen, he wasn't going to be outspent.

[Big Cat]

No.

[PFT Commenter]

And so for Yankees fans to be complaining that you can just buy a team now is. It is delicious.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Yankees wouldn't budge on giving Juan Soto a sweetie. Yankee Stadium saying that if they don't do it for Derek Jeter, they're not going to do it for him. Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

They're probably like, well, who do you think is going to pay for this giant salary? You need to sell that sweet to somebody.

[Big Cat]

Right? Exactly. But yeah, it's, it's very funny watching the instant turn by Yankees fans being like, yeah, he actually is. I saw one Yankee fan just posted all of his, like, ups in right field and they're like, this is. We, we didn't want this for the next 15 years.

[PFT Commenter]

All right, so here's the story. The Mets have excellent intelligence. They were aware that while Soto liked being a Yankee and loved having Aaron Judge protect him in the lineup and lead them all in the clubhouse, he allegedly was upset early in the year by an overzealous Yankees security guy who disallowed a family member and his chef slash driver from certain areas.

[Hank]

Basically, Mark Wahlberg and other guys.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Mm. So it was a security guard's fault.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Hank]

Also, my other hot seat, NBA cup. I have been trying not to get mad, but it's kind of bullshit that The Celtics went 31 and aren't in it.

[Big Cat]

Oh, but it's a good thing you're not mad.

[Hank]

No, I'm not mad. I will be watching and betting on it, but it's. It is slightly triggering.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Jack]

I'm the worst NBA cup gambler of all time. And PSG is the pf. You should be the data.

[PFT Commenter]

I think you should be the dad. I think if you break it down, I literally might be the best NBA cup gambler of all time in the history of the world. As of right now.

[Big Cat]

As of right now. Yeah. And go check out our picks. We have them on our socials, so follow pft. Hank, your cool throne.

[Hank]

My cool throne is desean Watson.

[Big Cat]

Oh.

[PFT Commenter]

Oh. What's going on?

[Hank]

I just posted an Instagram story of him and his girlfriend having a nice. Looked like they're on a beach. Beachside dinner, romantic class. He looks like he's, you know, living his best life.

[Big Cat]

Good for him.

[PFT Commenter]

Or is he?

[Hank]

I think it was the ocean. Although sometimes I think Lake Michigan's the ocean, but it looked like the ocean.

[PFT Commenter]

I'm gonna guess it wasn't Lake Erie in Cleveland in December.

[Big Cat]

No, and when I say good for him, I mean, I don't care. I hate him.

[Hank]

Yeah, but he doesn't seem to care. He's chilling.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, no, he. Yeah, I saw that pasta didn't look that. That great. No, no, it looked like. Just regular. Like, it didn't look that fancy.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, he's still got a shitload.

[Big Cat]

Of money and a shitload of lawsuits to settle.

[PFT Commenter]

I think he might have settled all.

[Big Cat]

Oh, he did.

[PFT Commenter]

I think so.

[Big Cat]

There's not any new ones.

[PFT Commenter]

Not yet. Let give Tony Busby, like, a week.

[Big Cat]

I think it was. I think it was basically like a salamander's tale where just one would fall off and another one would grow on.

[PFT Commenter]

Grow back.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. All right. So cool Throne. Deshaun Watson. You're a big Deshaun Watson fan?

[Hank]

No, but he's on the cool. Like, he's chilling.

[Big Cat]

He's chilling.

[PFT Commenter]

He is chilling.

[Big Cat]

He is chilling.

[PFT Commenter]

That's. That's Hank's dream. Life is being Deshaun Watson.

[Big Cat]

PFD your hot sequel.

[PFT Commenter]

My hot seat is reality. Oh, did you guys see the story about the new supercomputer that just came out?

[Big Cat]

No.

[PFT Commenter]

All Right. So Google just announced this yesterday. They've invented a new computer. They have a new quantum computing chip. They named it Willow, and it's capable of performing this, like, specific computer computing challenge in less than five minutes.

[Big Cat]

Okay.

[PFT Commenter]

You might be like, okay, what does that even mean? Well, Google says that one of the world's current fastest supercomputers would take 10, septillion years to complete that same challenge that Google's chip did in less than 5 minutes. 10 septillion is longer than the age of the universe.

[Big Cat]

Holy shit.

[PFT Commenter]

So it has this chip that is, like, the next step in quantum computer sceptillion. Septillion. It's a real number.

[Big Cat]

Ship breaks my.

[Hank]

How many trillions are in a septillion?

[PFT Commenter]

I don't know. I'm. Was that 70 Trill? I don't know. No idea. These numbers are impossible to even think about. That's how big they are. So Google Infinity bite.

[Big Cat]

Bigger than that.

[PFT Commenter]

Is Google bigger than that?

[Big Cat]

No, infinity.

[PFT Commenter]

Infinity is bigger than that.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Hank]

I think we're very close to just the world ending. So, yeah, that's like the AI supercomputers catching up and then just taking over.

[PFT Commenter]

So that's what they talked about. They actually said that what they're starting to believe now, and the fact that they've invented a chip that's this fast, it actually lends credence to the theory that we are living in one of an infinite number of computer simulations right now. And once we reach that singularity where we have, like, crazy quantum computing, then we just start developing more and more universes out of that.

[Big Cat]

Ah.

[PFT Commenter]

So this might not be real.

[Big Cat]

Holy shit.

[PFT Commenter]

This podcast might not be real.

[Big Cat]

Wow. Nothing's real.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. Well, except how bad Spotify is with their interview wrapped and A.J.

[Big Cat]

Brown and Jalen Hurts. That's used to being.

[PFT Commenter]

Being friends in a different. Maybe in a different universe. Yeah, they were friends at one point.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

My Cool Throne is shooting your shot.

[Big Cat]

Okay.

[PFT Commenter]

Friend of the program, Ryan Rossello, went on a podcast and. And discussed an event that he was at several years ago. It was a celebrity football game, and it was with the Sports Illustrated swimsuit models. And he talked about the fact that there were all these swimsuit models there. There was one girl that was there that was not getting as much attention as the swimsuit model that he felt to be more attainable. That woman was Meghan Markle. And he shot a shot. He DM'd her in the picture that. That Ryan put up. She looks like she's having a good time. Body language Experts.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Pretty decent green line test right there, I would say.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Ryan looks strong.

[PFT Commenter]

He looks very. Got a lot of hair.

[Big Cat]

But that hair is the.

[Hank]

I think if he was bald or solo, that it goes differently.

[Big Cat]

But Megan's. Markle's short enough that I don't think he. She saw that, you know, he's wearing a bald yarmulke.

[PFT Commenter]

Well, she does love hairy guys.

[Big Cat]

True fact.

[PFT Commenter]

So Ryan slid into her DMS and was like, hey, do you want to come on my podcast? But in, like, a flirtatious manner.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

And talk football. And she was like, I'm not that big of a sports fan. Well, I think he was like, you want to come on my podcast and promote your show that's coming out?

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

She was like, I don't know sports. And that's how it ended. But then Page Six got their grubby hands on this story, and they put up such an unflattering picture of Rossillo, and the headline was like, a former ESPN podcast host thought that Meghan Markle was attainable. And that picture actually in that headline. Not that bad. The picture they used in the story.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, that's.

[PFT Commenter]

That's a bad one. So it makes it look like.

[Big Cat]

I know which one they use. They use that one every time. Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

It makes it look like Ryan thought that Megan Markle was, like, a super attainable, like, beneath him.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. They put that back side by side. I. Rossil also has told this story like, a million times, and I. It's funny that it just got picked up and they did this. Oh, that's.

[PFT Commenter]

That's the picture, right?

[Big Cat]

That's bullshit.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

Page Six, you.

[PFT Commenter]

So they. They wrote this article just to put this picture of Ryan up and be like, this guy thought this chick was attainable.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Then it got community noted. Do you see that? That was. Yeah.

[Hank]

That had to be Rossillo.

[Big Cat]

Well, I mean, the Rosillo army said Ryan Russell has said times that this is a joke and never asked Markle out. Yeah. Because he. He has told the story before, but. Yeah, that's so funny.

[PFT Commenter]

Invited her on the podcast.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

To promote her show. What a good guy.

[Big Cat]

Oh, my God. I've heard that they were still hotter than Meghan Markle. I'll say it. I. I think that is.

[PFT Commenter]

I think she might be attainable for Ryan right now.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. You know, actually, no, I think. I think sill is unattainable for Meghan Markle.

[PFT Commenter]

You know how close he lives to the beach.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. He's got a boat.

[PFT Commenter]

He's.

[Big Cat]

He's playing boat anymore. He surfs.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

He's got scripts.

[PFT Commenter]

The total package.

[Big Cat]

He is working on him.

[PFT Commenter]

That man right there, that is a real prince.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Yeah. He'll treat you right. And when. I mean, when I say treat you right means like he'll ignore you while he watches Magic Blazers game 38.

[PFT Commenter]

He's strong. He's so strong that they.

[Big Cat]

You page six.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. That was.

[Big Cat]

Come at our boy like that.

[PFT Commenter]

It was a dirty move.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. I hope it worked.

[PFT Commenter]

What if it does work out for them?

[Big Cat]

Good. Good. All right. My hot seat is Odell Beckham because he and his dad are on the hot seat because Roma Dunes A and his dad have taken over. I don't know if you guys saw, but probably didn't, a Twitter account called Black Dick Post.

[PFT Commenter]

You got to make sure to pronounce the end of that.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Black dick posted Roma Dunes. They would have 1100 yards on any other NFC north team. And James Dunes a Rome's dad said 1500. So that's going well. Everything's going well.

[PFT Commenter]

I love.

[Big Cat]

It's not depressing.

[PFT Commenter]

I love those Twitter accounts. Like the black Adam Schefter.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Black Skip Bayless.

[Big Cat]

You didn't know we needed a black dick.

[PFT Commenter]

No.

[Big Cat]

Now you do. We got one. But, yeah, things are going well. And then we had. That doesn't even look like dick.

[Jack]

I think that's just a random fan.

[Big Cat]

Who'S in a dick sweater. Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

I do like the idea. Like, yeah, black people, you should. You should be allowed to dress up as Mike Dicka, too.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. You should have a Ditka big dick. And then most. Most of the time do. My cool throne is Jalen Brunson. Because there was a report last night by Josh Hart that in the second half again of the Knicks Raptors game, Jalen Brunson was screaming, I want dick. I'll take dick. Talking about Grady Dick.

[PFT Commenter]

Got it.

[Big Cat]

That also got community owners notice that he's lying on my name. Very funny, though.

[PFT Commenter]

This is what I love about. About guys that have been friends for a long time. I know and continue to be friends.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

You can say this type of stuff about your buddy.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, I got dick. I want dick. Also, Carl Anthony Towns. He might be the perfect fit for New York. He had a big shot. He was repping it. Yeah. And the Knicks have been hot. Like Carl Anthony Towns might be built like that.

[PFT Commenter]

See, I didn't. I didn't think that he would when they made this trade. He might be proving me wrong.

[Big Cat]

He is. He's built like that. Okay, let's do our interviews. We've got a great interview with Steve Young and then Kenny Dillingham also. Awesome, awesome interview. Really cool guy. Back to back. Before we do that, we got a couple ads from upft.

[PFT Commenter]

Before we get to Steve Young, he's brought to you by Viator. If you're finding the perfect gift, that can be tough. Especially one that won't end up in the back of a closet. This holiday season, do what I'm doing. Give the gift of planning unforgettable experiences with Viator. With Viator, you can book guided tours, activities, excursions and more. Viator has over 300,000 travel experiences that you can choose from, so it's easy to find something that everyone on your list will enjoy. Plus, they have real traveler reviews. So you can pick the perfect experience with confidence and with free cancellation24.7 customer support, you can gift worry free knowing that plans can change. But great memories, they last forever. So skip the predictable presence and make this holiday one to remember. The Viator. Download the Viator app now. Use code VIATOR10 as Viator1 0 for 10% off your first booking in the app. Find travel experiences for you. You can do more with Viator. Steve Young is also brought to you by our great friends over at UberEats. I love this ad because every week I get to update you because they're giving away food. It's football season. Uber Eats is dropping undefeated deals on all your game day favorites. This week you can get buy one, get one free pancake combos. Yes. From ihop. Ihop is giving buy one, get one free pancake combos only on Uber Eats. Craving even more. We've got you covered. Game day deals on pizza, burgers, tacos and more all season long. Uber Eats, the official on demand food delivery partner of the NFL. Order now for game day terms, taxes and fees. Apply See app for details. And now, here's Steve Young.

[Big Cat]

Okay. We now welcome on a very, very, very special guest. He's a pro football hall of Famer, super bowl champion, multiple time mvp. It is Steve Young. Steve, thank you for joining us. We really appreciate it. We are children of the 90s so we, we grew up watching you play football and we got a bunch of different questions. I actually wanted to start with some games we watched yesterday and your team who kicked the shit out of my team, the bears. Are the 49ers back or did they just play the Bears? Could they, could they make a run here? We're trying to figure it out.

[Max]

I think if you stand Back to who they were last year, fully loaded and Christian McCaffrey and Brandon Ayuk, probably other than George, the most important people on the field. And then Trent and not know Trent. It's, you know, it's gonna, it's. It's hard. Right. But I think it was going to get harder anyway. So I think what's happened is they got punched in the mouth in Green Bay, got punched in the mouth in Buffalo, and. And got him in way got embarrassed. And this is a team. Yeah. Short of some guys. We get that. But as a group, 50 guys have been at Super Bowls or at championship games, and all of a sudden people are, you know, treating them like dogs. Like, like something's, you know, and, and I think that this is their answer back. Like, hey, we're wounded, but we're not gone. And so when you say, hey, can they. Can they clap back and get something done? I think this is a group of people that have proven some real resilience. I mean, there's some hardy folks. That's why last week I talked about grit with, you know, during the week about them is like, where's the grit? Where's the natural grit that you guys have had for years? And I think they answered that on Sunday. So I would say to your question, can they clap back and make something happen? They're under direct. They gotta win. They gotta go to Miami and win. They gotta win against the Rams, who are hot, and they got to come back home and beat the Lions. They have to win those games. And so. Yeah, it's absolutely possible. It's possible. Hard, but possible. Yes.

[PFT Commenter]

There's another story in the NFL going right now that I feel like you have some good insight into, and that's Bryce Young. Bryce was. He was unceremoniously benched. I don't know if you can be ceremoniously benched, but he was. He was definitely cast aside by the Panthers.

[Max]

And I've been ceremoniously benched before. Yeah, yeah, you can be ceremoniously benched and unceremoniously benched. They're both the same.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, yeah. So he was kind of cast aside and, you know, the bust phrase got thrown around a little bit with Bryce. He's still very early on his career. Second year he gets benched and he comes back and he looks like a completely different quarterback. You had, I don't want to say similar experience, but you were, you were.

[Max]

Kind of cast arc that you're. I know where you're going.

[PFT Commenter]

You were cast aside by the by the Bucks early on in your career and you didn't get a chance.

[Max]

I was a lefty. People back then didn't want to coach a lefty. They freaked out.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, you kind of do look like.

[Max]

Ray Perkins got the head coaching job and he looked at me like, bro, I hate lefties and I hate scramblers. Anyone who could run was, was like weird. You should stand there, don't go anywhere. And I look, that was prototype. I get it. It's still. Look, you got to be a sophisticated passer with football today no matter what. But I always thought it was a bonus and he thought it was terrible they ran. I mean, he thought lefty in a scrambler, you're out. I ha.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, lefties do look weird.

[Max]

No, but, but, but, but getting thrown out. Like when you talk about Bryce Young. Look, there's, there's crappy places to be as a quarterback today. You can go to teams and it just, it just sucks being a quarterback there because they, they have people running the organization. I'm not speaking about Carolina specifically. I'm talking about. There's a. There's a number of places where they still don't, from ownership on down, don't understand the positions importance and then how to. They tend to look at it from a defensive perspective. I'm not going to coddle a quarterback. I'm not going to. They don't need special treatment, you know, and so it's like the paradigm is wrong. It's not that they need to be coddled or need special treatment. There's expertise to the nature of building a situation. An organization from the ground up to make the job for the quarterback as easy as possible so they can thrive and be great. And if you do that, then you have a chance. And there's. And so for Bryce, it's getting to a place where you can actually show who you are. Look at Sam Darnold's a perfect example. Jets flailing around, bus goes to Carolina. Oh, show some signs. Let's be honest, he set up some smoke signals in Carolina when he was there. Like, I can still do this. I don't suck. But you still don't need. You need more help. And then he gets to San Francisco and what does Kyle Shanahan say? I love this guy. This guy's our career art could be great. And we all kind of said, oh yeah, what are you talking about? That's crazy. He's nuts. What is he. Then he goes to Minnesota and now. And so Bryce, unless you look, there's some guys that Hit the pro game. Who have really thrived in college, who look prototype. Bryce looks throat prototype. Probably not big as strong as the prototypes, but runs around, makes big plays like and. And been in the. Been in the big games. Like, Bryce doesn't know his ceiling. We don't know his ceiling. And there's filters he's got to go through even if he got all of that help. But what you're seeing today in the last few weeks is, hey, look, I can survive here. And if you can survive, then you can thrive. And so I don't know where this ends up for Bryce, but he's showing me like, like Sam did when he was in Carolina. Like, we're losing, but I can figure this out. And that's a. I always say it's called sending me smoke signals. Like I'm dying down here. But I'm sending you something that tells me that you're going to. You have a chance to thrive at some point either there or somewhere else.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

With Bryce specifically, things looked real bad for him. Every snap looked like he was thinking it through. It was painful. He was lost.

[Max]

It looked like he was lost.

[PFT Commenter]

And the fact that he's improved so much from earlier this year, as he was going through that, and all the public scrutiny that went with it to how he's playing right now, actually tells me that he can be even a whole lot better than he is right now.

[Max]

100%. Thousand percent max. 100%. I can't agree with you more. It's the signal in tough times, in tough situations, that team, you know, it's hard in locker rooms. I was in Tampa. I understand losing locker rooms. The players are not losers, but the losing locker room is tough to overcome. And so if you can show signs, smoke signals again, that you can know, you know what you're doing, and I can figure it out. That is warrior work. Yeah, that is. That is. Patrick Mahomes does not have to do that work anymore. Josh Allen does not have to do that work anymore. But in many ways, Bryce is doing that work.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

The.

[Big Cat]

Do you think in the NFL game we move on from these guys too quickly? Because you, you mentioned Josh Allen. I mean, Josh Allen was not great his rookie year. Probably not. I mean, he showed sign the smoke signals somewhere around the halfway point of his second year. And now he's playing the best of any quarterback in the NFL. I mean, that game against the Rams, I know they lost, but he was out of this world. Good. Do you think as a league, teams and franchises are moving on too quickly from guys and not giving them a chance to get through those rough patches that they start their career with.

[Max]

The problem is you don't have 32 great places for quarterbacks to make that judgment.

[Big Cat]

Right.

[Max]

You have to glean through. You have to recognize, like, if you're in San Francisco and you're struggling, you got problems. There couldn't be a better place. Jimmy Garoppolo takes a team to the super bowl here and then can't find a job.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

So, like, there's places where, you know, if you go down and see Sean McVeigh and struggle at quarterback, the guy that understands and innovative mind and how he calls plays and he understands position, then that's about you. You know, I mean, so. But if they, if the Rams drafted or the 49ers drafted a young quarterback like Trey Lance and can't do it, that's a. That's a sign of. That's not a. That's not a. That's not a situation problem. That's a you problem. Right. And so, but then there's a lot of places where you go and you can't know that there they, you know, they get drafted a young quarterback to try to be great, and it's not a great place for quarterbacks, and it's not necessarily a you problem. And you have to. And I think that. I think the people who understand the position, who have built organizations to make sure that they make the quarterback as profitable as possible, have now the reps to know when somebody is not going to get there or like Sam Darnold, like, there's something here and we can, we can work with it. And so I, I just, I think until there's 32 teams like that, we're going to have to glean through where it is and what it is. Like, if someone gets drafted by the jets this year and they haven't fixed anything, then, you know, it can't be harder. I mean, I feel for Aaron Rodgers because it's so interesting that he's. He was developed in an age of more sophistication. The job that he had 15 years ago is so much harder than it is today. Today's game, as Tom Brady describes, the flats are open, the middle of the field's unpatrolled, and no one can hit me. It's an amazing time to play quarterback. And Aaron learned the game and are very much more sophisticated. And so he should be dominating as Tom dominated, as, you know, as Matthew Stafford is dominating. Anyone that's hung around long enough to know In a sophisticated time, should be dominating. That's how tough it is for the jets to go. Be good.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

And granted, he's lost some mobility and everything else, but that's when you know some place they've got a. They don't understand the position and it makes it super hard.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

So what is it about San Francisco, specifically that organization and Kyle Shanahan? What makes it easy to play quarterback for him?

[Max]

If you track each. Track Bill Walsh to Andy Reid, and then you track Andy Reid to and through Mike Shanahan like that, there's a. There's a way that they look at the world. They look at the. They look at the coaching world as abundant. In other words, whatever I know, I want you to know. So they're unafraid to share where so many trees of coaches. They don't share anything. Good luck to you, bro. I got my proprietary knowledge, you know. To hell with you. And it doesn't have that abundant spirit. So what I'm. What I'm trying to describe you fundamentally is if you're from the Bill Walls tree, you've been taught to share. Like, I'm open. And then also I'm. Because of that. And I seek, like, I like abundance in the spirit of how I coach. You can have everything I have. Is that because I'm not going to. I'm not staying here. I don't. Whatever I have today is not what I'm going to be tomorrow. I reinvent myself. Look at andy Reid. He's 67 years old.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

Fricking reinventing himself every week. Never stuck. Never thinks, oh, I used to do it and it works great. And I'm just going to keep calling plays from 2015 because that was when I was great. That's half the league today. But why is San Francisco great? Why Kyle great is because he's come from a place of like, look. Look what. Who's come out of his shop. Mike McDaniel. Like, who's come out of the Shanahan tree, let alone. You know what I mean? Like, because they're. It's like, have everything I got because I'm not staying here this week against the Rams. Watch Sean and Kyle go at it. They've been saving stuff so that they can. Because they empty the tank when they play each other. The plays, the cool stuff they do. And it's a short week, so they're going to be under real duress to get in all the cool stuff they want to get in in. Because they're not going to. Who you Knew me yesterday is not who I'm going to be tomorrow.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

And Andy does that. And that's why it's. As a quarterback, you're trusted. I believe that you can all call plays that are very aggressive. And you protect me, quarterback. You protect me. It puts a quarterback in a position of great empowerment and belief and, like, faith. And then. And then I'm going to call plays that make it really easy for you and really hard on defenses. And I. And I've seen that from Kyle from the beginning. He. He takes the job of quarterback and makes it as easy as possible and as complex as possible for the defense, and then calls plays in combination to just shame them.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

Like, you think you can play that defense and get away with it, I'm going to pound you. And a lot of guys talk about it on Wednesday. They actually don't call the plays on Sunday.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Yeah. So. All right, so in a coaching perspective, you go from Tampa to San Francisco. What was that like? When you sit down with Bill Walsh for the first time, you're like, holy shit, this is totally different. Like, did you have that moment, that eureka moment where it's like, oh, man, this is. I know I'm not brought in as the starter because Joe Montana's here, but, like, everything in my life is going to be easier when I get my.

[Max]

First. Remember, I was traded to the St. Louis Cardinals. Ray Perkins had come in as a head coach, told me he hates lefties and scramblers. You're out of here. Called me and said I was traded the San Francisco Cardinal. I mean, the St. Louis Cardinals. I had made a relationship with the owner, Hugh Culver House. No one else really knew him. And I. He'd sit over in a corner. I go talk to him. And so he and I were friendly, and I immediately called him. I. Because he. Two months before, we were trying to get Bo Jackson to come down, and he. At dinner, he goes, this is my quarterback for life. And so I called him. I said, Mr. Kohlrash, you said I was your quarterback for life, and now I'm getting thrown out of town. I'm going, you can't send me to St. Louis. He goes, oh, I'm so sorry, Steve. Yeah, new coach, blah, blah, blah. He goes, but you're right. I told you that I owe you a chance. He nixed the trade to. To the Cardinals. Like, he. He went and cut it. Like, I don't know what you do officially, but he went and, you know, turned, you know, and they didn't agree to it. Wow. And then so he called me back and he said, look, I'm going to give you a week, and I want you to go find a place where you can thrive. And I'm like, he saved my life. And so then I talked to Bill Walsh, and Bill Walsh's first thing he said to your question, I love the fact that you're left handed. I think it's an advantage. I was like, I mean, in college, my office recorder said he wouldn't coach a lefty. So it's like, I think it's advantage. And I love that. Your mobility. We're going to have to make sure we know where you're going, but your mobility is a superpower hour. Wow. And I'm like, first thing out of the gate. And then he said, joe Montana has just had his second back surgery, and I don't. I don't know how he comes back from it. And so I'm like, I hate to hear that, but, man, that's a real opportunity. And so. And then the first two things happened. The first day. The first day we. I got to the 49ers, we had summer camp, and Bill Walsh walked in and he said something that I'll. Well, I'll never forget. He said, look, I don't care what play we call. I don't care what defense we run. We're going to win because we have shared common experiences amongst each other and an element of love for each other. That's how we're going to do it. And I was like, did he just. What did he just say? And he wrote a book called the Score Takes Care of Itself. Because if you live values of. Because he said, look, we're going to be in Green Bay playing Packers at Lambeau Field. It'll be drizzling rain and 31 degrees. You've never been cold in your life. The wind's going to be whipping. We'll be down by four, third and 10, no timeouts with a minute 10 left. And I want you to get in the huddle, and I want to look across the huddle to people that you have a shared experience with and have some level of affection or some level of respect, like you know each other. And I was like, this is crazy talk. I've never heard a coach talk like this in my. That's this football, right, we're talking about. I'm used to coaches with a big stick just hitting you over the head. And so I'm telling you, Bill Walsh gets very. He gets a lot of credit, but not nearly as much as he should get at what the game looks like today, like, the game that we enjoy today is really off the back of that comp. And I learned it firsthand from the call I got when he told me he loves lefties and scramblers and. And then when he talked about. But then the next thing, we ended the meeting, we went out for the first practice, and I'd never met Joe Montana, and he came running out, and the first thing I thought is, he doesn't look real hurt.

[Big Cat]

He gave Bill Walsh, gave you a nice speech to get you there, because he knew you'd be someone.

[Max]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Six years together.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. How was that knowing? I mean, we. You know, obviously, Brady has gone, and they've. And the Patriots been through a couple quarterbacks, but. But it had to have been a little difficult at time or a lot difficult at times to be with a living legend and knowing the fan base wants one thing, and you're like, hey, I want a shot. I know I could do this. And then have that moment, you know, the classic clip the monkey off your back winning the super bowl, where it's like everything that you thought you could do, you went out and proved it.

[Max]

I mean, there's a book there.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

A lot of chapters. It was the. The dynamic is. And I. And Joe would agree. I mean, it's just been awkward from the first day.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

The first day I showed up, it was awkward. And I think if, you know, when we see each other, it's. We never argued. We never had crossworded each other. Never. I never had an argument. I mean, we just didn't. But it was always awkward. And I don't think it was never. Not awkward.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

And the day when he was traded to the Chiefs, it was. It remained awkward when I got there. And when. When. When we. When, you know, Bill would. Bill was crazy. He would. Joe Montana won two Super Bowls. He'd drive the team down in the Superdome, and then he'd go. Go in and run this play, and I'd run in and Joe would run off the. Like I was. It was a crazy time. And it was. All of that. And the fans, it was. They were being whiplashed, and it was hard. And of course, I was going to lose every conversation. In fact, I'll Just one little thing. I'll tell you. In 1991, the Gulf War had broken out in the Middle east and on the front page of the San Francisco Chronicle, and the headline. Because at the time I was playing and things weren't going Perfectly. And I think the whole barrier. And really, any 49er fan in the world was like, where's we need Joe? And I remember thinking to myself, well, he didn't. You guys know, he lost a game. Like, no, that's impossible. He threw it in a complete pass, I promise you. Like. Like, no, we don't remember that.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

On the page of the Chronicle was the Gulf War. It's Steve Young's fault. You know what I mean? It was like a. And I think that that tells you how it was going for me.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. And it's. I mean, it's. I love the honesty, because I think a lot of times, you know, we've had this conversation before where veteran is in there, and then a rookie gets drafted, and the veteran will be honest and be like, hey, I'm not here to help him. And, like, everyone, like, oh, my God, how could he say that? Your teammates. But that's kind of the reality of it. Like, you've got a job and someone's trying to take your job, and there's that element in every locker room.

[Max]

And Bill. I mean, I think Joe and I both feel that we. Looking back on the relationship we had with Bill Walsh, it was love, hate, because, you know, he said, I put you guys together to get the best out of both of you. Joe hated to hear that, and I guess I hated to hear that, too. Like. But yet he was the king. Joe was the king. And I was. I was a freaking popper. Right. And so I. The power dynamics were not good for me.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Also, the fact that his name was Joe Montana, that's just. That's a starting quarterback.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

What I could have done with that.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

If you guys. If your names were different, then I think the fans would be like, yeah, put Joe in. Yeah, Joe Montana, that's a Super bowl champ.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. But that. I mean, that Super Bowl, I mean, you got. You guys killed the Chargers. That had to be that one clip that. I feel like I've seen it a million times, the monkey off the back. Like, that feeling had to have just been the greatest feeling in the world, given everything that had transpired the years before.

[Max]

I somewhat regret that moment because it reflects something I would have said two or three years before, because I, I. It's a longer story. I met a guy named Steve Covey on a plane once in the depths of my career trying to replace Joe, and I dug a hole of depression and anxiety and victimization. And, like, I was. I was struggling, and he kind of showed me, you know, a Way, you know, a perspective that said basically that the 49ers was the greatest platform for iterating to see how good you can get as anything he's ever seen in his life. And I was like, well, no, that can't. Because what I'm just described to you is this place sucks. And he's like, no, this is the greatest chance you've ever had to see how good you can get. Are you afraid to see how good you can get? I'm like, no, I'm not afraid. Well, then go about. Be about it, like quit. And I. And I. And I was proven at the time that I. I was in the bottom of a hole that I had dug, that I had victimized myself and made all the excuses and everything else. And so I think that two or three years before that Super Bowl, I had come to a place of perspective to recognize that it really wasn't about him. It was really about, like, go about. This is the greatest platform in history for a quarterback to see how good they are. Go. Go be about it. I remember playing the pack like the Dallas Cowboys soon after and seeing Troy Aikman in warmups. And I ran up to him. I was like, troy, I'm so glad you're here. I'm in this quest to see how good I can get. And I can only find out against the best. And you guys are the best. So I'm so gl. I can't wait to play, you know. Troy looked at me like frickin weirdo. But I was about it. I was about it. And so by the time I did it at the super bowl, it was almost. It felt a little bit like it was like, what do I want to say? It was cheap at that point. It was more of a thing to do just because it was for the cameras.

[Big Cat]

Because, yeah, you'd already wanted a couple MVPs. Yeah.

[Max]

Performative. But everyone sees it as a moment. Yeah, I mean, I had that moment two or three years before. Right, right.

[PFT Commenter]

Do you feel a little bit bad about what you did to the Chargers? Kind of ran it up on him.

[Max]

I mean, honestly, you know, when someone. If someone's going up, like, think about the old days when they had someone and they had the shackles behind him and the chain with their legs, and they're going up to get guillotine. You know, the crowd would. Then in the. In the town square, the crowd would gather and then the guy's going to come and get his head cut off. Right, right. It's like, even if you're a Charger fan, and you're about to see me get my head cut off. You might say, oh, I'm okay with losing, because I did. I didn't see a guy get his head cut off. You know, I mean, like, you know, there's. There's no. There was one less death in the world today. So, I mean, you know, I can't imagine anyone felt bad about that day for me.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, probably not. Probably not. It's interesting. So you. You sat next to the. So that Steve Covey guy. That's the Seven Habits of Highly Effective Seven Habits, right?

[Max]

Yes.

[PFT Commenter]

And you just happen to sit next to him on a plane.

[Max]

Are you a savant? What do you got? You got everything in your pocket.

[PFT Commenter]

I've read a lot of book covers in my life, but that's like. That is the perfect person for you to sit next to on a plane at that time in your life.

[Max]

That story is that as a longer. I tried to tell it as fast as I could, but he took the moments like he was. He looked like Yoda. He was bald and shorter and kind of curmudgeonly, and I had a long finger. And he looked at me right in the eye and goes, I think you're afraid to see how good you can get. And I go, I totally understand that. Because people. Human beings are. That scares people.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

But I mean, I'm not afraid. He goes, then go be about it, man. And I mean, my life changed right there on a fricking Delta flight from Salt Lake City to San Jose, California, as I went home. I had flown home after practice on Monday just to get out of town because the Gulf War was my fault. And I went to see my brother, who was at the University of Utah Medical School, and I walked around with him telling him all my problems. He goes, bro, I got three kids and I'm broke in medical school. Like, what the hell?

[Big Cat]

What are you.

[Max]

What are you talking about? I got another. My brother and I headed home, headed back to practice on a Tuesday night and sat down next to Stephen Covey.

[PFT Commenter]

Wow, that's like that shallow how when he meets Tony Robbins on the elevator. That's what happened to you in real life, like, at the perfect time in your life. Who initiated that conversation? Could he tell that you were down in the dumps?

[Max]

He's like, yeah, no, I remember he.

[Kenny Dillingham]

We.

[Max]

Was from Utah. So he was like, it was somebody I knew, and I knew his kids, actually, a little bit. So it's like. It was a familial thing. I'D understood him, but I never really sat and talked to him ever in my life. And I sat down and just, oh, Steve, nice to meet you. Great, wonderful. And I'm like, how are you doing? And I just, I was at a place where, if you ask me how I'm doing, you're getting a half an hour of, I'm going to spew out everything because I'm. I'm at the. I'm in the pit, man. And that's what I did. And he listened to all of it and basically said, wow. I tell you, if you want a little bit more. He said, look, you know Steve, I hear it all, man. It sounds really hard. Can I ask you a couple questions? He said, tell me about your owner, Eddie DeBartolo. I'm like, man, that guy's amazing. He sees players and owners as partners. It's, it's. He goes, yeah, I'd heard about him. I really want to meet him. He sounds like an amazing guy. Tell me about your coach, Bill Walsh. And of course, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He goes, yeah, I really want to meet him, too. He's a guy that feels like he could have. He has a lot to give to the world, you know? I'm like, yeah, no question. And then he asked me one last question, Steve, is Joe Montana on the team? Is he there? And if you needed to go ask him for advice, could you do it? I'm like, like, well, yeah, that's the whole problem, is he's sitting there on the sidelines hurt. And I, I, I, I. He goes, yeah, but if you need a mentorship, could you go ask him? I'm like, yeah, I could. And then he said, man, I, I've been around a long time. I listen, this is my 7 habits book. This is what I do. I look for companies, platforms where people have a. They perform. They give people a chance to iterate and see how good they can get. And, And I just try to, you know, amplify their stories so that people can read about it and help their own lives. And I gotta be honest with you, as I travel the world, this is the greatest, best platform in that I've ever seen for somebody who's set up to go see how good they could get.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

And I was, I remember when he said it, I was like, wait, didn't you just tell. I just told you a half an hour of crap. Like, what are you, what are you trying to turn this on me? And he turned it on my head in a way that just. I freaking Changed my life big time.

[Big Cat]

That's nice. Incredible.

[PFT Commenter]

I would have. I would have just shut up and then put on. Put in a bet against you guys the next week. If you just unloaded that on me. He actually helped you. He changed your life.

[Max]

No, no. And then I remember getting off the plane Tuesday night thinking, I gotta get to work, man. And I've been so. I've been bitching bonus so much, I might get fired. You know, Wednesday mornings, when you get fired, Right. And so I ran down that day thinking, please don't fire me. Please don't fire me. I feel like I've got a new lease on life. And you talk about, that's 1991, and that's towards the end of the season in 1992. I'm the MVP of the league. I only say that because Steve Covey gave the perspective, you know, shifted by axis to see that I wasn't in a big pit of neglect and victimization. Like. Like, stop, stop. And so I owe him a great debt. I didn't mean to talk about all this today, but.

[Big Cat]

No, that's really cool. Yeah, I mean, it's. It's an incredible story that, like, a happenstance just on a. On a plane can change your entire outlook.

[Max]

Everything. It changed. And when I said I ran up to Troy Quman, I ran up to him, said that to him. Like, that's what I was. I'm about it. Yeah, if you're great. I'm about playing you, man. Because I got to find out, because I got to figure out. And I remember Mike Shannon came in in 1992, and there's a new offensive coordinator for the 49ers. And I remember talking to him about this at length, and he's like, man, that's inspiring. Let's be about it. Like, he went all in. And so we, just, the two of us for three years until he freaking committed treason and left for the Broncos. The three years we were together, I mean, I put it up against anything, anywhere, anytime.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, and your numbers were insane. Speaking of, Mike Shanahan was there. I remember there was a rumor that when John Elway retired, there was a chance you were going to come out of retirement and go play for Mike Shannon.

[Max]

I wasn't a retirement. I was. You're still on the Niners season 99 season. And so Mike was. And. Yeah, no, I spent some time in Denver, and we were. We were ready to it. We were thinking about it.

[Big Cat]

Was it close?

[Max]

He was all in. He was all in. And I just. I don't know, I, my wife says that's one of the things I, you know, because we were newly married at the time, and she regrets not like, pushing me harder to do it. I, I was, I was kind of emotionally cooked in some ways. Like, you get towards the end, you're like, ah, what am I doing? And I, and I just need. I, I, I, I should have jumped in. I would have played 2000 to maybe two or three years. 2000-2001-2000-2003 would have been the years I played in Denver if I would have done it.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Wow. That's a real, like, what if.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, what if moment.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Could, could the Broncos have won another.

[PFT Commenter]

Do you think you would have won another Super Bowl?

[Max]

Why not? Let's go.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

I mean, those are good teams with.

[Max]

Mike and I. I mean, the two of us, I mean, if history was anything like we had before, it was good stuff.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

I got kind of a tough question for you here. Can you tell me which loss was worse for you?

[Max]

Which Brett Favre 92 championship game?

[PFT Commenter]

I was going to say, out of all the Brett Favre losses, is it the consecutive playoff losses or is it losing the role in Something about Mary.

[Max]

Copy Losses were different because the championship game we played in Green Bay, my rib was out and I only played like three plays. So I don't really, that was that one. And, and then the loss at home in 95, we just couldn't run the football. Like, we just, you know, they, we had Gilbert and Reggie White for our line. Was super hard. Like, it was just, it wasn't as, I don't know why. It wasn't as painful. It was more, it felt more competitive. When I think about the 92 championship game, I throw up on my mouth. Like, I really struggle with that one. That was a total screw up and I, the regret I have about that game is, is heavy.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. By the way, we have a bone to pick with you. You are not going to remember this at all. You're not going to remember this at all. But I still have to bring it up in 2000.

[Max]

You really have to. Yeah.

[Big Cat]

Oh, here it is. This is going to be funny. It's kind of a full circle moment because you probably have no idea what I'm about to say in 2020. You were on, I believe, PTI and maybe lightly, but kind of criticizing Joe Burrow for doing an interview. Tipsy. We were the ones who did the interview with him and we were the drunk guys.

[Max]

No, no, I think, I think you're Remembering a little bit. You smoking cigar at lsu. And I regret. I actually regret that interview for me, like, what am I. I was like, what, are the kids gonna start smoking cigars? Like, stop, Steve, relax.

[Big Cat]

But it was actually. It was. You said something about, like, he's doing an interview. Tipsy. I want it on the record. We were actually fully hammered. Yeah. When we interviewed him. We interviewed him like, six hours after he won the national championship game. It's one of the. My favorite moments that we've had in this history of this podcast. We've been doing it for. For nine years. But we were. We were hammered.

[Max]

I guarantee I have his pti, that I was having fun with it because it was funny to me. Like, I think I enjoyed the fact that I was watching you guys and going, what are we doing?

[Big Cat]

Yeah, it was. I mean, it was. I mean, it was like a thrill of a lifetime. We got to interview the national champion Heisman.

[Max]

How come. How come hammered you got to interview a guy right after the champ national championship?

[PFT Commenter]

Well, he didn't know that we were going to be hammered, but we known Joe for a while.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. And we knew.

[PFT Commenter]

And Coach O. They've become good friends of ours.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Ohio.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, we. And we. So we stayed out. We stayed out late after they won the national championship. And then we. We had friends in the program. We're like, hey, we'll come to your hotel. We can set everything up in the lobby or, you know, a room. We'll interview you before you got to get on the buses. So Joe and Coach O came down. Coach O was sober, but Joe had. He just won a national title. It was like 8 in the morning, and we had been on Bourbon street all night. So we did the interview just very drunk. And it was. I mean, it was one of the.

[Max]

Funniest interviews we've done. I miss my PTA times because PTI times, because it was there guys are great. Quite great questions, and it's always fun. So. Yeah, I'm sure we were laughing about you guys.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we. I think we also got them in trouble because I think that's when Joe admitted that Odell was handing out cash.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. Because we're like, you're about to leave lsu, so it doesn't really matter now. That was real money.

[Big Cat]

Right.

[Max]

I got plenty of money, too, in my pocket. So, yeah, you guys. You guys took down a lot in one month. Nice job.

[PFT Commenter]

That was the first time that college players have taken money.

[Max]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, we were doing some good interviewing. Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

We should do all our Interviews drunk.

[Max]

Yeah, we really should.

[PFT Commenter]

It's actually not. It's a pretty good, pretty good hack for. If you're starting a podcast, just get hammered and badger people the questions. Yeah, I got a question for you about the modern day quarterback play in the NFL, namely the slide. So I don't know why, but just in the last two years, I feel like I've been, I've been watching quarterback slide to protect themselves. And I've been thinking more and more the slide isn't really that safe of a play at all for quarterbacks because it puts your head so close to the ground where if you get hit on a slide, you're likely bouncing around.

[Max]

It puts your head on a pedestal right at the level of people's knees. And, and like you basically are saying, and by sliding you're opening yourself up, right? It's like, oh, hit me in the face. Yeah, that's what the slide. And I think the slide, the game. Look, the game changed when they changed the rules. It's now a Canadian sized field, essentially is what we've done is we've expanded the space because defenders can't launch their bodies. The space that's come in the last six or seven years, that's put. The prototype is now like, it's my game. I'm, you know, all the people tell me you scramble, you're weird, you're odd. Now I'm like, this is my mainstream.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

And so the game's changing and the slide needs to change because it's actually, it can be weaponized by a quarterback. You're seeing Patrick Mahomes. Not the slide particularly, but the go out of bounds fake and then come back or the, you know, pump fakes or all the stuff that they're doing to abuse defenses. Defenses are really under duress from the NFL by making the rule change for safety. And so it feels like the slide. I never slid. If you can get a quote, I'm gonna. Any clip of me sliding. It'd be a mistake if I did because I always felt like just what you just said, it's dangerous. You get yourself hit in the face. And plus referees always reduce where you slid. Like whenever I would, I guess I have slid because I know I've done it. And they. And then also for a first down and then I'm a half a yard behind. I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, I, I slid to make the first down and like, no, you slid back. It's like I learned sliding. The, the mentality of it is they don't give you the yards. So forget it. I'm not going to do it anymore. Do you guys. Does your mom live with you? What is going on?

[Big Cat]

Max? Max just came in to change the.

[Max]

He doesn't care. He doesn't care.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, he didn't care at all. He just walked right in front of the camera. That was crazy.

[Max]

Freaking boring story. I don't need to.

[Big Cat]

No, that was nuts.

[Max]

Like, look, I fell asleep and forgot you guys were live.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

Max, do you have any questions for Steve?

[Max]

Look, let's go. The slide. You gotta get. You gotta change the slide.

[Big Cat]

Your mic's not on. Yeah, yeah.

[Max]

Screaming into the dead mic, bro.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, I mean, imagine if you had slid on that. I, for some reason it popped up. I love the old accounts where they just pop up old highlights. That 49 yard run against the Vikings.

[PFT Commenter]

Oh yeah.

[Big Cat]

Game winning touchdown run. Like that would have been ruined if you had tried to, if you tried to save yourself and slid somewhere on that run.

[Max]

No, but I think the game, it's unfair for defenses today because you've gotten Lamar Jackson out there sliding. You know, you guys, these guys are. I mean these are super, super capable people. So they put themselves in a bind. So what happened with Shazir is that he's. They're taught to go when someone slides that you go to hit them, to take them down. Because they're such a threat today because their prototype is to come out of, you know, and start gaining those free yards out there, but then just fly over the top of them. Go to hit them and if they slide, just fly over the top. But that's even hard to do. So I, I think, I don't know, I think sliding's. To make it. To make sliding safe for quarterbacks is impossible. So get rid of it.

[PFT Commenter]

I don't, I don't mind that take at all.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Because like it's impossible for, for a defender.

[Kenny Dillingham]

And it's just gonna get worse and.

[Max]

Worse as the more mobile, the more dynamic of the runner coming out of the pocket, the quarterback is, the less the, the slide was invented for people who couldn't run.

[PFT Commenter]

Mm. Yeah.

[Max]

You're now out of your element. You're in a very dangerous. You're down in the jungle now in a. Without any weapons and you're like, how can we get you to safety? So the slide was, was for people who didn't know what they were doing out there. They were, it was out of their, out of their. That's just not the case anymore.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

So the slide is the actual. The rule for the slide is. Is for a time that's gone now. The prototype is not the pocket. You know, you have to. You have to be sophisticated passer to do the job. But the idea that nobody can go and get those yards with their legs, those days are over. So the slide is. The slide is. It's not. It's not part of the game today. Shouldn't be.

[Big Cat]

The one thing about the modern game, obviously, the offenses been.

[Max]

You.

[Big Cat]

You mentioned it like, it's very easy to play offense now. Everything's open. Wide receivers are incredible. I do think we get to a point where we forget about how special Jerry Rice was. Can you tell us, maybe our younger audience, like, what made Jerry Rice so damn good? Because we get to a point where, yeah, there's guys that are. I mean, Jamar Chase, Justin Jefferson, some of these guys are doing incredible things. Jerry Rice was doing that every single year for a decade and a half.

[Max]

No room.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

With no space, with no. Like, that's the thing. The game was. You had to. That. You had to. You had to make space as an offense. There was no. People were launching all over the place. Defenders were flying. You couldn't run slip screens. You couldn't. There were no cheap yards. Now, people say, oh, you ran a lot of slants for cheap yards. But tactically, we out. You know, we were. We were quicker to the punch in some ways, but it wasn't like, you know, the game was not the game today. So you make a great point. Jerry Rice. Every once in a while, you run into somebody like Michael Jordan, who is supreme talent with supreme work ethic, like Blue Collar. Over my dead body. Every day. It's. You know, and I think there's. And I think in a person's psyche, what happens is there's a fear that even though I'm amazing at something, I have this fear that I can't get rid of, that I'm going to. Someone's going to take my job. And I swear to you, I think Michael Jordan was driven by that, even though it's like he's the greatest ever. And Jerry Rice was driven by the same thing until he. The day he retired, he thought someone was going to take his job.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

So he lived in a state of. I'm not going to say fear because it's the wrong word, but anxiety that. That I need to go to work. And so I'll give you one quick story. We won the super bowl against the Chargers. Come home, do the parade down Market street, the buses pick Everyone up from the Market street, go down to the facility in Santa Clara, drop everyone off. The coach makes a speech because he just won the Super Bowl. Hey, see you later. See you then. First OTA in April and, you know, goodbye. So everybody is like, it's like a derby, like, to get out of there. Everyone's gone. So the next day, no one's. No one's gonna go to. No one's gonna go down there tomorrow, Right. But I'm single. I got nothing to do. I'm gonna go down, clean up my locker. I don't know. So I go down there, nobody's there, and I'm. And the doors are locked, but I know there's a 24 hour guard that's there all the time. So I'm banging on the door. Bang finally comes. You're like, bro, what are you doing here? I'm like, I don't know. I cleaned the locker. I want to, you know, take a hot tub. I don't know, something. And I go out the fields, you know, the 49er facility is still there. Same thing. Go out the back of the locker room and there's the fields. And I look out and freaking Jerry Rice is out back in the corner. And I can't hardly see that it's him. At first I'm like, who's that freaking crazy man out there in the corner running. He's like running routes against air. And then he's acting like he's catching the ball. And I'm like, that's Cherry.

[Big Cat]

Holy.

[Max]

And I'm like, bro, like, take a day off, man. And a couple of things went through my mind. First was, is that Jerry? I said, yes. And the second thing is question I asked myself is, am I supposed to go out there and throw it to him? Like, man, I don't want to go.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Throw it to him.

[Max]

And I can't remember if I did or didn't. I want to believe I went out there and at least tried, but that's. People say, who's Jerry Rice? Jerry Rice is the guy when no one. Like, he. He must have had a key.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

Because the guard didn't know he's back there. He'd go, hey, Jerry Rice is back there. He's like, yes. What the hell? You know? I'm like, yeah, he must have known Jerry had a key.

[Big Cat]

That's crazy.

[Max]

To the, to the. To the gate. And he was going to go do the work. Wow. And so that's Jerry Rice. And so put the numbers of Jerry Rice up there and look at even today when the game is wide open, Jerry Rice's. All his records should be under duress. Right. They should be being lapped in today's game, and you can't get close to him.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

You cannot.

[PFT Commenter]

Did it make it hard as a quarterback when he would give the ball back to you and it'd be all sticky?

[Max]

No, you guys, don't. Don't believe the hype. Now, come on. That was the. That was pre. That was pre 1985. That was. Was. That was the Stickham era. Now, the gloves that they have today.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Max]

Are much tackier than anything that we had when we were playing with in the 80s and 90s. Much tackier.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Max]

The idea that you can go back behind and grab a ball with one hand like Odell does. Those. Those gloves are much tackier than they are than they were back in the day.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you were talking earlier about sending smoke signals. Quarterbacks that send smoke signals, maybe they're not in the best position right now, but you see something and you're like, okay, I'm going to keep my eye on you. You're still.

[Hank]

All right.

[PFT Commenter]

You're still alive. What quarterbacks are out there right now? And we'll move on from Bryce Young, because I think he sent up a few of those. But what quarterbacks right now do you see that might not. They might not be playing that great right now, but you see something that you want to keep your eye on.

[Max]

I see it in Caleb. Now, look, I don't know how the ceiling is, and you got to go through some filters like I told you, but you got to get into a spot where you can get some help. What I didn't like about Caleb's game yesterday is in the first half, like, you're look clearly under duress. Things are really going south fast. Get out, man, and start, like, make plays. Like, we're not going down this way. And so what I didn't like about his game yesterday is he just kind of sat there looking for the third guy, waiting for someone to come open. Like, no, get out. Go make something happen. Refuse to go down that way. So there's still learning that he's going to have. But I early. There's some things I've seen this year that I feel like I would want to invest in Caleb for sure. I don't think it's fair to say C.J. stroud anymore, because I think we've seen it now. We just got to get it developed and get him all the help that he needs. And everything else. I really feel that he's in a great spot. Help me go around the league. I'm just thinking what the. Sam Darnold is going to. I mean, what do. What do the Vikings do?

[Big Cat]

That's what we were saying. We. We had a whole discussion about it on our podcast. Comes out Monday, Monday, Wednesday.

[Max]

You're insane to not sign a guy that's doing that for you.

[Big Cat]

Right.

[PFT Commenter]

He's playing as well as you could expect.

[Big Cat]

But what do you do? What do you do? I mean, you know, this situation. What, like, what do you do with J.J. mcArthur?

[Max]

Like, hey, I would be Bill Walsh and say, look awkward, but let's. Let's go. You know who will benefit? The Vikings.

[Big Cat]

Right.

[Max]

We don't know which one of you will benefit, more or less, but right now, the Vikings will benefit.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

And as long as you don't have a toxic personality, Which I know JJ's not, and I know Sam's not. Like, you know, Joe and I were not toxic personalities. We weren't going to inflame things in the locker room. It wasn't going to be worse because of the awkwardness. Now, that can happen. You don't want that. But I would be unafraid, especially with my history. Like, bro, two of you, let's just. Let's go.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. I mean, iron sharpens iron. You're going to get. You're right. The Vikings will be the best for.

[Max]

Free for a few years.

[Big Cat]

Right.

[Max]

So, you know, I don't know. I just. When someone's playing great football in the NFL today and, you know, that he, you know, over and over again, as Sam has shown this year, I just. I believe that this is the truth of Sam Darnold. He will grow from here. He's. He's. He's going to be like Josh Allen. Like, he can run, he can move. He can do all the things that you need from a prototype quarterback today to get out and get those free yards. And I would not let Sam Darnold go at all.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

And if I would. And I don't care who you have at quarterback, other than maybe Patrick or Josh, I would say bring him in. If you can get them at a price that works. Make it awkward, man. If they're going to let him go.

[PFT Commenter]

Do.

[Big Cat]

Do not.

[Max]

And if I was Sam, I am not going back to one of those places that doesn't take care of and doesn't understand the quarterback position.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

So I will go compete to go to one of those places that does.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean, you don't. Kevin OConnell is an incredible coach. And then you also have Justin Jefferson. Like, don't walk away from that.

[Max]

Nope. You have to dynamite me out of a place like that.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

All right, well, I had one last question. Steve, this has been so much fun. We really love having you on, and we'll definitely do it again.

[Max]

Fell asleep. But other than that, we're super exciting.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Well, he's got add. We. We've. I've thought. This has been incredible. My last question is a rollback question. Rhode promo code. Take 20 off your first purchase. Qzips, polos, hoodies, joggers, shorts. Roback.com promo code, take. So. So you mentioned all the way at the beginning of the interview, being on, like, a losing team with the Bucks and. And having that in the locker room. We're at that point of the NFL calendar, December, where there's some teams that, it's clear it's over. They're not in the playoffs, They've got two or three wins. How do those teams get off the mat and play this game every single Sunday? Like, is it just. Are guys just playing for themselves, or what is it like in that locker room when you're trying to do the prep all week and then get there and be like, we know we're probably not going to win.

[Max]

Football is weird and different because the job is to go ram into other people. And it's unusual. You know, it's as a team game. Look, there's ufc, there's boxing. There's other things that, you know, that's part of. That's the game. But the game in football is I got to go get people to ram into other people. And honestly, it's not natural. And so for the human condition, and I don't care how tough you are, it's not natural to just go, like, I can't wait to go ram into somebody, right? And so in football, when things were. When. When. When you have a sense of. Of one, right? And we're. We're. We're accountable and we're work together, and we have each other's back, and, you know, over my dead body. And like, we're. Then that natural incentive comes. It. Like, it. It comes out of people. Like, it comes out of the locker room. Like, you can feel it fill in warmups. Like, I swore I can watch a team warm up, and I can feel the level of this over my dead body feeling this sense of commitment to go ram into somebody. This week, I'm.

[Big Cat]

I'm.

[Max]

Ready. And so when you start losing and then you're out of it, then it's tough because naturally, even tough veterans of the NFL human is like, I really don't want to ram anybody this week. Like, I'd rather not. And so it's, it, it makes it super hard more than any other sport that when things are, you know, you're out of the playoffs, you're, you know, you're just, you know, running out the clock of the season when you have to go hit people, it makes it that much harder to get them to go do it. And so as a coach, you know, a lot of coach use threats and because they're under, if they're out of it too, they're probably learning to dress as well. So a losing locker room that's out of the playoffs is actually kind of a dangerous place to hang out because you go to play and not everybody's committed. You just get yourself hurt, right. And so in that way you just, you pray that you're in a locker room like the 49ers this last week and go, hey, look, no way. And then there's leadership in there and there's a commitment to it and we're not going to go down that way. It's probably a little bit of a DNA thing that they've had for a while, but a teams that have lost for a long time and it's part of their culture and their dynamic now. It is brutal when you get out of the playoffs and now you, you have to go figure out how to go play and, and, and, and show who you are. Like the idea that I'm going to play quarterback on a losing team that's out of the playoffs. How do I. Let's say I'm all in 100%. I need five linemen that are all in 100%. I'm not going to say they're not, but human nature says I really don't want to ram in anybody this week. So, you know, and so I'm not going to be tip of the spear, you know, ready. It's hard. I feel for teams that are in that mode all the time. I saw it in Tampa Bay for one season. I was there for one full season and there were no losers on the team. But it was a losing place, right. And it was possible to change. I mean, some of the toughest human beings I ever met. James Wilder, I don't know if you remember that name before running back. I mean, tough. I mean, passages these guys are. It was all years I played some of the toughest people I knew were down there, but the culture and the, and the feeling, you just couldn't get over it. And it gets, it's infectious, it's infecting. And I feel bad for teams that can't get out of it and teams that are constantly in it. I blame ownership. And unfortunately, in this league, you can't. Because it. Equity ownership is not going to change. You can't. People don't really talk about it because they can't feel like they can't change it. They can get the coach fired, then get the general manage fired. They can get the quarterback fired. So people, that's where they talk. They can't get the owner fired. But the problem, 99% chance is the owner. How do we hold the owner accountable? How do we do that as a, as a city, as a fan base, as a. I mean, we need to be thinking about how we help ownership be accountable.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

Make the team. If they could fill that accountability and answer to it, it would help the team. And so I don't know. How did you guys figure out how to. How do we. How do we figure out flying airplane.

[PFT Commenter]

With a banner behind it?

[Big Cat]

Yeah, listen, you're, you're, you're preaching to me because the Bears ownership is not serious about winning football games. And that's. It's very frustrating as a fan.

[Max]

Well, if you feel that way and then, then it really doesn't matter who is the general manager, who, the coaches, who's the quarterback. Like, you can't overcome apathy.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Max]

That's what you guys are saying. If you guys are saying that Chicago Bear ownership is apathetic, then you guys got to, you got to figure out how to address it.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

The one thing that they pay attention to is the bottom line. When the money starts getting messed up, then they start looking at it like. I was a Commanders Redskins football team fan. Fan. And I worked 25 years on getting Dan Snyder fired. Nothing was ever going to happen until he started losing money and his, his corporate partners started pulling their sponsorships. And then he got caught. All the stuff with the investigations to personal conduct was one thing, but when he got caught taking money from the other owners, that's when it was like, okay, now it's time to get this guy out. So the only thing these guys listen to is money. That's what will make them act.

[Max]

I don't know. I don't know. I. I don't know. I just know that the league would be. We'd be an even Better league. We're a great league. Right now. We're even better league if we could figure out a way to hold the ultimate equity owners accountable.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, agreed, Agreed.

[PFT Commenter]

I. I had one last, last thing because I read this about you today. I did not know this, but you never took a snap under center in your entire NFL career.

[Max]

No.

[PFT Commenter]

And excuse me, in the shock, you were always under center.

[Max]

You never took the year I was in the USFL Express. That's all I did was a shotgun. I loved it. And it's building. Bill Walson believe in it. He didn't believe the timing could be. It wasn't until John Elway and Mike Shanahan used the same offense in 98 and showed. No, no, it doesn't matter. And I remember when John was doing it from the shotgun, I'm like, frick, why? Like, it doesn't matter. And from the shotgun, it's just such a better spot to be to play quarterback. And so, yeah, no, I never. In the NFL, I never played one snap of shotgun, which is.

[Big Cat]

That's crazy.

[PFT Commenter]

That's such a bummer. You had to just get into your sinner's butt every play.

[Max]

Yeah, for me, man. For me. What I could have been.

[Big Cat]

All right, well, Steve, thank you so, so much. We really enjoyed this. And like I said, we're going to have you back on. You have to come back on legally. Now you're recurring.

[Max]

I got to tell you, my dad's nickname is Grit.

[PFT Commenter]

Okay, Nice, Young.

[Max]

I see the sign behind you. And Angela Duckworth wrote the book. Great.

[Big Cat]

Yes.

[Max]

And he's in the book, which is weird. That's if you're serious about grit. I'm in.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, we do. We do a Grit.

[Max]

If it's just a sign. No, we do a cheap sign that Max walks by. I'm not coming back.

[PFT Commenter]

But we Grit Week every year.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, we do Grit Week.

[Max]

You guys are about it, then. I'm about it.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, we are. We are. We do a grit week where we travel around to different training camps and, you know, do interviews out of a van. So we're about it. For sure.

[Max]

I love that.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. As gritty as a podcaster can get. Not as gr. Not that gritty, but we push the limits for grit for podcasters. All right, thanks so much conversation.

[Max]

You guys got a lot of good therapy for me. I appreciate the time.

[Big Cat]

Absolutely appreciate it.

[PFT Commenter]

Take care.

[Max]

See you, boys. Take care.

[PFT Commenter]

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[Big Cat]

Okay, we now welcome on a very, very, very special guest. He is Big 12 champ. It is Coach Kenny Dillingham from the Arizona State football program. Coach, first of all, thanks for joining us and second, congrats because you might have one of the best stories in college football right now. You guys were picked to be last in the Big 12. You win the Big 12, you get a buy in the college football playoff. We're sitting here on Tuesday. Has it all set in yet that this is just like an incredible ride and just a hell of a season?

[Kenny Dillingham]

Yeah, it is. And the fun part is it's not over. Like, we're still rolling it. You know, that's the best part is we got like three and a half more weeks before we play again. But.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Kenny Dillingham]

And to think, it all started. When was it Coach Dugans became the OC At Florida State? The same time I became the OC at Florida State. It's just ironic that it all led to this moment.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was how I first linked up to you with you, is I took the job as Doug's at Florida State, and then you hit me up and you're like, hey, don't. Don't let me down here, because this is. You're playing as me right now. And we've talked ever since. But this is. I mean, that. That Big 12 championship game was incredible because you guys did it in a fashion that was just a blowout fashion. And I do have to ask, though, in that game, and we. I want to talk about Cam Scatterboats because he's so much fun to watch. There was that clip where he threw the ball panicking in the backfield, and they flashed to your face. And I've never seen a coach more like, holy, what just happened? Why did he do that? What was going through your head in that moment?

[Kenny Dillingham]

Well, so Cam is actually one of the smartest kids in our team, so I'm going to preface it with that.

[Max]

All right.

[Kenny Dillingham]

And we toss him the ball. The play didn't work. Horrible play call by me. Not good. Right? And he starts running around backwards. We were on our three yard line. He then realized he was stuck and he was 20 yards back. And he's so intelligent. He said, whoa, I'm out of the pocket. I can throw the ball away. So he made a decision in a split second, Instead of losing 20 yards, I want to throw the ball away. And I knew, like, as it was going, I'm like, this dude's going to throw the ball away. Like, I know scat. He's going to throw the ball away. And then when he did it and the ball almost got picked off, it was one of those moments that I was like, is this real life or is this an alternative reality? Like, I was like, in a state of W. What the hell is going on right now?

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, it's actually a really smart play.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

When you think about it. Yeah. It might have taken a couple of Years off your life. But I always said when a running back has a ball in the back field, they're going to get bottled up, throw the ball, get it out of bounds.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Yeah, I mean, and we had a guy in the area, he actually came to the sideline. And both him and our quarterback are so competitive. Our quarterback had a bootleg off of the play, off the toss, and he boots out opposite. He goes, where were you? You were supposed to be over there was. He had a plan to throw for a touchdown after running backwards for 18 yards to our quarterback. And that's just that, you know, he's such. So. Such an aware player. That's what makes him unique and different is he. He's super intelligent. He plays as hard as you can possibly play.

[PFT Commenter]

He's so fun to watch. He's. He's one of the. My favorite guys in college football to watch with a ball in his hands. Do you find yourself calling running plays just because you want to watch him run with a football?

[Kenny Dillingham]

Yeah, I mean, we definitely want to. I mean, I get on the headset. I don't call the plays. Coach Arroyo does, but I get on the headset set because that's my background. I said, hand it to Scat. I don't care what you do. Just hand it to him or get it to him as many times as you can here or I want to see Scott touch it twice in a row. I'll definitely make comments like that.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

I would just do it not because it's necessary for, like, the situation of the game. Just because I, as a person on the sideline want to watch him running with the football.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Yeah, I don't. We don't make too many of those decisions. Just, you know, we mainly try to win. That's usually our main purpose for decision making.

[PFT Commenter]

That's why you're you and I'm me.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the other one. Yeah, yeah. I don't want to trade. No, the other one we got to talk about is the ending of the BYU game. Now, this is where you basically were Coach Doug's me playing video games where I had big time clock management issues. I did stupid things all the time. Do you know now that, like, we're a few weeks removed from that and you're in the playoff and you're comfortably big 12 champs. Do you realize how fucking stupid you were in that moment?

[Kenny Dillingham]

Yeah, that was a mistake. I openly said it, I think, in my press conference on Monday, like 100%. You know, when we do an average play, takes four to five seconds. So. And then a throwaway play takes eight seconds. So when you do the math. Yes. Does the little book that tells you to run around, run around and throw it away tell you the game's going to end? Yes. But does common sense tell you to go hand at the scout and score?

[Big Cat]

Yes.

[Kenny Dillingham]

So 100 hindsight. Let's just turn around. Let's hand it to that dude who should be at the Heisman Trophy ceremony and let's save the drama for another day. Yeah. It made for a great ending.

[PFT Commenter]

It did.

[Big Cat]

It did. It was. It was literally, I was watching it live, being like, this guy's playing Madden right now. Like, what is he doing? And then. And then having that scene of you with the ref and there was some guy standing behind you that was making me laugh so hard. This, like, diehard Arizona State fan who be basically instantly became your hype man, who looked like he was just repeating everything you were saying. It was why I love college football. It was just a scene. You can't get in the NFL. And. Yeah. Learned. Learn the lesson to maybe just run the ball next time. Yeah.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Should have just probably handed it to Scott.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

And you know, as an Arizona State student, how hard it was going to be to get all those guys off the field? Field. Like, once the student section gets on the field, that's gonna. That's a big cleanup job that you have to undertake there.

[Kenny Dillingham]

That's what was going through my mind was I'm getting pushed in the back, I'm getting hugged by random people and like, mosh pitted in there. And then I'm being told there's still time. Then my wife's out there and we're hugging and she's giving me a kiss. Congrats. And then we have donors on the field. The guy that you're talking about is one of our top donors.

[PFT Commenter]

That's awesome.

[Kenny Dillingham]

And he's came out on the field with my wife.

[Max]

Life.

[Kenny Dillingham]

And it was just. You talk about chaos. I mean, but you know what? This season's been so crazy that. Why. Why not? Why not just add to it?

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Why not?

[Kenny Dillingham]

Why not embrace it all?

[Max]

Embrace.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Embrace the chaos.

[Big Cat]

And I. I feel like you had. Maybe this is just the point of the football season where everything blends together. But didn't you have a game that was almost similar where you were out on the field and the game was over? Was that earlier in the season, like, the same thing happened? Yeah.

[Max]

Yeah.

[Kenny Dillingham]

I've never had a second added in my career, Mike. I coached Pop Warner, so If there's ever a time for a second to be added on a clock, you think it would Pop Warner officials. And it's happened twice in our first 11 games this year. We had a second added to the game which gave the team the other ball.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Again, so it was very interesting.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, we might need to work on our last second situational football. Football that might be something to circle this off season.

[Kenny Dillingham]

I agree. There's a. There's a lot more than that to work on. I got. I got a lot of problems.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

So you guys are in a great spot. Now, as Big Cat mentioned, you were picked last in, in your conference. How often do you repeat that? How often do you still let the team know, hey, you were picked last? Like, that's, that's really bad. The expectations were so low on you that you're actually last. And look at all you've accomplished. Do you still still. You still use that as motivation, like, constantly with the team now?

[Kenny Dillingham]

Yeah, it's more. We're still not. Like, people don't believe we're good. Right. We weren't even picked high in the, in the last CFP rankings. People are saying, hey, these teams that get to play us have the shorter, easier path. So our guys see all that. They read all that. You know, regardless of what they've accomplished in the last 12 or 12 weeks or 13 weeks now, now they, I mean, they still have the chip on their shoulder because people still doubt them. And that's why we're. Where we're at, is because we have a lot of people who were at these blue blood programs that chose to come out here, live in paradise, live in 65 degrees and sunny in December, jump in the pool, maybe take a little dip. Right. And walk down palm tree lane at Arizona State and compete for championships at the same time. I mean, I don't know about you, but that sounds like a good time.

[Big Cat]

You're recruiting us right now.

[PFT Commenter]

There's probably a couple, I don't know, like, let's say 230 pound. I'd say juniors. In high school, they're linebackers. Maybe they've got like the start of a mullet going on right now, and they're trying to figure out where they want to go to school. Maybe three star recruits. What would you say to those guys?

[Kenny Dillingham]

I would say you get to come out here and live in paradise. You get to play championship football. You don't have to go in the snow and hit people in 25 degrees. Yes. Does it get hot in the summer? Yeah. Keep Your butt inside. Right? Get in the pool. The pool is not bad.

[Big Cat]

Right?

[Kenny Dillingham]

It's a good spot. And be around good people. We have really good people on our staff and we, we have a saying here. Be a good person. Make good decisions. And the last one, have more fun working harder than anyone in the country. You want to have a lot of fun working your ass off. This is spot for you.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. And I got to give you credit because I love your. Your breath of fresh air when it comes to college football and the way you've attacked this is awesome. The one thing that's crazy that I haven't seen any other coaches do. The transfer portal sucks. You're losing guys. It's just part of the business. But you're out there, quote, tweeting a guy who's transferring, being like, he's awesome. Someone pick him up. Is that like, I mean, that's an intentional strategy by you? But, like, it seems very genuine that you're like, hey, look, I understand how this is going to work. We're going to lose guys every year. I'm not going to shit talk them. I'm not going to, you know, tell them, make them feel bad for making a decision for themselves. I'm here to still support them. It's awesome.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, like, I know it's a business. I get all of it. Trust me, I'm in it. Right. So I understand it. But college sports is supposed to be to help the kids. Like, that's still the root of what it's supposed to be. And if there's a guy who's not playing for us who wants to go play college football, why should I be upset?

[Max]

Upset?

[Kenny Dillingham]

Like I shouldn't be upset. I should be like, you're right, you're not gonna play for us right now. Or maybe you're behind somebody on the depth chart, or maybe you're really good and you want to go your dream school. Right. Maybe this isn't your dream school. Why would I be mad at a kid for wanting to be do what's best for him? Coaches do it all the time. I've moved around. Assistant coaches move around. What a double standard that would be for me if I don't support the players and their career aspirations like I support coaches and like I did in my career. So I root for them. I try to help them. I let them give my number to other college coaches for them to call me. I want to see them successful and bottom line. And I really think if you're Good to people. People are going to be good to you back.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, I really believe that. Yeah. It's a great message.

[PFT Commenter]

And you can fight against the rules all you want. A lot of coaches do. They're very resistant to it. Or you can realize, hey, this is the situation that we're in in what's the best way that we can deal with it? This is the new reality. And if you support guys that are looking to transfer somewhere else, a high school recruiter is going to see that and think to themselves, that's a good guy. That's a guy that I would want to play for.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Yeah, I would hope. Like I said, I just believe, like I said earlier, our number one thing on our board when we recruit people for our coaches, like, our number one thing is be a good person. That's not very hard to do. Like, when you really, truly think about it, it's not hard to just treat people right.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Kenny Dillingham]

And if you do that, good things are going to happen for you. I. I just believe it. So I, I do think, I do think that's part of it is just being a good person.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Not rocket science.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. All right, so I got a question for you. So our. Like I said, we. We first got linked up when I took your job job as Florida State offensive coordinator, as Doug's. But I actually have longer history with you, which always, for everything in my life, it goes back to a bet. You coach Bo Nicks his. His freshman year. I. It took me a long time to become a bow lever. I'm recently a bow lever. It's been about like a month now that I've been a bow lever. Part of the reason why it took me so long was I remember specifically betting Oregon against Auburn his first game. And I was like, who the fuck is this guy? And you guys won that game. But you coach Bo Nicks. Are you surprised at all about the success he's having in the NFL? Like, what type of guy is he? Because you were, you were with like unfiltered, uncut Bo Nick's freshman year where he was doing crazy ass shit. Now he's. He's balling out in the NFL. Has any of this surprised you at all?

[Kenny Dillingham]

Not at all. So I coached Poe as a true freshman. He had a pretty good season as true freshman year. SEC newcomer of the year here. And then he transferred to play for me at Oregon. That was a big reason he went up to Oregon. And Bo has always been competitive and special and accurate and has moxie and intelligent like he's the dude that has enough dog in him that it makes some people uncomfortable. Like, oh, whoa, he's going to say something back to you.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Like, in a good way. Like in a competitive way. Like, why do you like that call? Well, what have you thought about doing it like this? And some people don't. Like some people. This is what you do. Go do it. Don't. Don't give your opinion. I'm the opposite. I'm not. I've never been the smartest dude in the room, and I never will be. You know what I am? I'm smart enough to listen to people, and I was smart enough when I went to Oregon to listen to Bone X. When he said, I want to run. I want this guy to run the route like this. I'm like, okay, go tell him. You're the one throwing it, not me. Like, I'm over there standing with my hands in my pockets, like, I hope this works.

[Big Cat]

Right.

[Kenny Dillingham]

I have zero doubt in my mind that he was going to be successful. He has it, and I'm excited to watch him play, you know, for many years to come because I think he's going to be one of the next great Bronco quarterbacks.

[Big Cat]

I like that. There's so much dog. He makes people uncomfortable.

[PFT Commenter]

You know what? You know who he makes uncomfortable? If you got too much dog, he makes cats uncomfortable. He makes non dogs uncomfortable.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Brings it out of them.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

So are you when you watch them. When you watch me in the NFL. And he's not. He hasn't turned the ball over in like a month. Are you like, what the hell, man? What is Sean Payton telling you that I didn't tell you?

[Kenny Dillingham]

No. I mean, he did that at Oregon. I mean, he had one of the highest completion percentage in the country. He really didn't turn the ball over at Oregon for us when we got there. So it's. He's kind of doing what exactly what he did his last two years in college. The problem was he's so efficient as a passer. You know, people wanted him to throw it deep anymore, you know, and there was a narrative about him going into the draft. And the funny thing about narratives, as you guys know, a narrative can be created about anything. It doesn't really matter. People can make it out of thin air. They can find a stat and create it. And there are some narratives about him going into the draft that led to him in the. It was the best thing that ever happened to him because it put him in a position to be drafted by the Broncos. With Sean Payton.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Kenny Dillingham]

So that narrative of he doesn't throw it deep or take chances was the best thing that could ever happen to his career because it got him with a really good football coach.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, you. You really had like the full Bo Nicks experience because Auburn, Bo Nicks was chaotic and it was nuts and it was awesome. And it was just like, I always just think about that game again against LSU in Baton Rouge and then in Oregon. Yeah, he, like, it was just touchdowns and no interceptions and he was so efficient. So you. You saw it all. You. You.

[Max]

You're the.

[Big Cat]

You're a Bo Nicks whistle whisperer.

[Kenny Dillingham]

I. I don't know about whisper.

[Max]

I wouldn't be.

[Kenny Dillingham]

I will say this. I can guarantee I would not be the head coach at Arizona State without Bone X. Yeah. Without Jordan Travis. You know, I can promise you that because they're both really good players. The kid we have right now, Sam Levitt, he's a very similar player to Bo Nicks. He's got that swagger, the blonde hair, the run around, ultra competitive. I mean, they're very. It's like I'm living. I'm like reliving the Bo Nicks experience with this new guy, Sam Levitt, and it's. It's super exciting. I mean, now he's a Big 12 champ as a freshman, so I've been blessed to be around some good quarterbacks.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. So. So looking at the College Football Playoff, I don't want you to get ahead of yourself because you obviously, like, I love the spot you guys are in and the fact that no one thinks that, you know, they look at Boise, they look at Arizona State, they're like, oh, that's a cakewalk for Clemson in Texas and all that stuff. But if you're able to win a game and Oregon wins a game and you go up against Dan Landing, who knows the other one better? Do you think you know Dan Landing better than Dan Landing knows you?

[Kenny Dillingham]

I think we know each other the same. I mean, I go.

[Max]

We.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Dan and I go back to when I was a high school coach and he was a GA at Arizona State. And then we linked back up at Memphis where he was the linebackers coach. Now as the quarterback's coach and coaches play a game called like who's got the Pen Last? Where we go in and we talk ball. He draws up what he would do, I draw up what I would do, then he draws up what he would do. We go back and forth for hours or some coaches, if you love ball. Right. And that was the Guy I did that with and me and him would go back and forth for hours at Memphis and at Oregon, just who's got the pen last? What would you do here? What would you do here? So I think we both know each other fairly well. Obviously he's got that place rocking and rolling. I mean I've got mine, I got my Oregon Duck helmet up there. I don't know if you guys can see it, it's barely off the screen. But you know, I got a lot of respect for him.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, yeah, so have. You obviously have to start looking ahead a little bit in terms of just who you're going to be playing because you don't know yet. So how much prep work are you doing for each team right now?

[Kenny Dillingham]

We're breaking them down, we're not watching them yet just because we don't know who we're playing. We're really focusing on ourselves like we were watching all of our games and saying, okay, what tendencies have we created that we can break, break. So we're really going to focus on our own self scout and fixing our own problems first and then we'll get in here in another week to the really the opponent prep.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

That's interesting. I always think about the self scouting thing and again we're, we're dumb. We're not, you know, we're not true like X's nose football guys. And I always think about how other coaches would see things that I do on film and then I'd have to like play three dimensional chess to like change something that I think that they've noticed on film. And then I would get myself totally out of my own game plan. So how much do that as opposed to like playing to your strengths, you know what you do well and we're going to continue doing those things that we do well.

[Kenny Dillingham]

All right, well I'll create a parallel here. So I play video games fully aware. It's really not that much different. You've, you've played a guy who runs three plays in Madden or NCAA over and over again, right? Me runs the same three plays every single time. Yeah, you physically can't stop it. It is the most frustrating thing on the planet. Okay, there's that philosophy. And then you run the guy who calls run, run, run, play, action, run, run, run, play, action screen. And it's frustrating. Right. And we're more of the run, run, run, play, action screen the schemed up than we are. We're going to run the same three plays over and over again. You can't stop it. Those philosophies carry over in real life. Even though nobody wants to ever compare things to a video games, there are some parallels. It's more of a train of thought in a belief system. So for us, it's more. It's not that we're not going to do what we do. It's more, can we do it a different way? Instead of doing it out of, you know, instead of running four verticals, can we motion to four verticals this week? Can we align the back on the other side? Can we motion somebody? Can we shift? It's more doing the same things, but looking like it's different. I would say it's, you know, dressing it up, put a little salad dressing on it, still sell it, but still.

[Big Cat]

A little bit different. So do you. Do you have Shark Wheel in the playbook?

[Kenny Dillingham]

Shark Wheel is probably the biggest cheat code in a video game ever created.

[Max]

Yes.

[Kenny Dillingham]

It does not work in real life like it would work in the. In the video games.

[Big Cat]

Okay. But you should maybe, maybe just have it in there for what? You know, maybe if you get to the national championship, you got to surprise someone. Shark will work.

[Kenny Dillingham]

It probably will. You know what does work in real life and in the video game is mesh. Two by two, mesh with the tailback wheel.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Kenny Dillingham]

That plays. That play is still unstoppable. Video games, real life, most common third down play in football, third medium playing football is that play, which is always run in video games, too. And people say video games aren't real.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

The wheel route just in general is a great concept. I feel like it's, especially in college, that's always open.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. You get the running back going full speed against a linebacker in space, and it's like, hey, it's going to be open.

[Kenny Dillingham]

No doubt.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. So your start was very interesting. I. I don't know if this is true, but you got injured your senior year in high school and immediately went to coaching. So it was like that. It was just. You knew that you had to be a football coach. And the minute you. Because you hear all the time like, guys will go play, you know, division two, college, they'll play. They'll go all the way to the end of their football career and then start coaching. The end of your football career was senior year in high school. You're like, all right, ready to coach? Let's go.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Yeah. So I tore my ACL the spring of my junior year, tried to play my senior year without my ACL. Problem is I'm 5 9, I'm unathletic you know, I'm overweight and I was never really a good player. And that's not a good combination. To already be not a good player and not have an acl. My high school coach was like, hey, buddy, you may want to do this. If you like football, start poaching. And so my high school coach is actually our special teams coordinator right now, Charlie Regal. So he's like, hey, bud, let's just start this coaching thing. You're already not very good. This APL is going to make you worse.

[Big Cat]

Oh, wait, I started that. That's awesome. So your high school coach is now on your staff. That's cool.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Yeah, he is our special teams coordinator, assistant head coach.

[Big Cat]

That's, that's awesome.

[PFT Commenter]

It's also, it is a really great excuse if you weren't very good to begin with because when you hear like, oh, he tore his ACL so he couldn't play football, everyone automatically assumes he must have been a great football player. Bad injury luck. So you can, you can play into that. You're being a little bit too honest with us, I think.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Yeah, I was not a great player. I mean, and I wish I could say bad injury luck. Since that acl, I've torn my left patella tenant playing hoops, playing morning hoops, and my right patella tenant playing morning hoops. So I don't, I was just not a very good athlete.

[Max]

I hope.

[Kenny Dillingham]

I, I have a two and a half year old boy. I, I pray and I think he's got my wife's jeans. Who's the athlete of the family. She was like an Olympic hopeful gymnast. So I really hope he's got her genes.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Wait, so back to your high school coach. Has there been moments where you guys been sitting late in meetings? Especially now, like maybe even this week where it's like this guy was your coach in high school and now he's on your staff and you're going to the College Football Playoff. That's, that's a really cool, like, pinch yourself moment. Has he said that to you?

[Kenny Dillingham]

Oh, yeah. We definitely, our staff is filled with people who love Arizona State. I mean, our running backs coach coached high school in the Valley forever. Are in the Valley is Phoenix area. Right. Our, our tight ends coach is born and raised in Arizona, went to Arizona State. Our, one of our D line coaches went to Arizona State State. Our linebackers coaches from 15 minutes from Arizona State, our defensive coordinators from 30 minutes from Arizona State campus. Like, we have so many people that are passionate about this place that we look at each other. And we had a saying. I mean, we were predicted to win four wins. So when we were going to get our fifth win, we would look at each other and say, we can just get this one. And then we won five.

[Big Cat]

And then we're like, if we can.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Just get this one. If we can just get this one. One and 11 wins later, Big 12 champs. We're looking at each other into this next week, and we can just get this one. Oh, how long the ride goes.

[Big Cat]

I love that. Imagine a team just going, if we can just get this one, all the way to a national title.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, you could do it, for sure. It's been a hell of a season, and the conference that you play in seems like it's more chaotic than any other conference in the country. What is it about the Big 12 that just lends itself to these. These crazy games?

[Kenny Dillingham]

Well, one, we play nine conference games, so we play more conference games than some of the other leagues.

[Max]

Right.

[Kenny Dillingham]

So you. And then two, the. It's just every team is so close to each other from a talent perspective. So, I mean, there's not really the bottom of the league. Traditionally. There's not a true. I mean, though we were supposed to be the bottom, but there's not really the bottom of the league and consistent powerhouses. So every week that you play, I.

[Big Cat]

Mean, you could win or lose the.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Football game, I mean, because it's so competitive. So you beat each other up, and then everybody has two losses by the end of it. Like, when you go through the nine games to survive at eight and one is very, very rare. So we beat each other up. And. And then the environments, I think it's an underrated thing, the environments in the Big 12, going on the road to Stillwater, going up to. We didn't go to Boulder this year with Coach Prime.

[Max]

Right.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Those are. I mean, going to Utah, going to byu. You, though, coming to Arizona State. You guys saw our crowd. Those are real environments. So not only do you have to play good teams, you're not, like, going on the road to 25,000 fans, you know, who leave at halftime. You're going on the road to people throwing tortillas on the field like they do at Texas Tech.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

San Marcus. Tough place to go.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. So I know that you walked this back a little, but there was a point in the season where you. You were. You were down to do open tryouts for. For kickers, and I. I hit you up right away, and I was like, I got a kicker and he's sitting Right next to me.

[PFT Commenter]

I started stretching.

[Big Cat]

I, I told him, I was like, hey, there's a chance you might have to go down to Arizona. Now I know you, you, you figured that out. I don't know if PFD has eligibility left, but would you still be open for pft? Trying out? Just getting a, maybe a private tryout in the spring sometime just to see what he's got.

[Kenny Dillingham]

We could do a private try out. I feel our guys have done a phenomenal job. I mean, I should have never said that I openly apologized. Like I said, sometimes some things have to be handled behind closed doors. But 100%, if you want to come out and you know, you want to see what you got, I would love for you to come out and embarrass yourself. I think that'd be awesome.

[Big Cat]

Oh, wow.

[Kenny Dillingham]

That'd be exciting.

[PFT Commenter]

This is like when you, this is like when you got picked last, coach. Now I'm making. Personally, if I can just make one field goal, then I'll pass. Okay. So when Big Cat told me that I did try out for the XFL, went 3 for 5 from 37 yards. So I started stretching, got in the squat rack a little bit. I do have eligibility left. I looked it up. I could, I could enroll in ASU law school and I could be on the roster. Like obviously I wouldn't get in the game, but you don't have a limit. I could just be on the roster and just, just, just show up for games as like the seventh string kicker. Right.

[Kenny Dillingham]

I mean, in today's day and age with nil, you know, you may be able to nil yourself through. Pardon my take.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Kenny Dillingham]

From our fourth string kicker.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, right.

[Kenny Dillingham]

There could be a play there, there's an opportunity.

[Big Cat]

And you know what?

[PFT Commenter]

I want to take on the mantra of what you speak about at asu and any nil money that I make through being the fourth string kicker, I'm going to distribute that to the rest of the kickers on the team.

[Kenny Dillingham]

I think that's a great idea. I think that's an absolutely phenomenal idea.

[Big Cat]

And I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna match.

[PFT Commenter]

Piget's gonna match a match.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Oh, we'll see. Hot damn. Yeah, we're rolling now. Now we're cooking with fish greets.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, listen, I can, I can still make a 35 yard field goal consistently. I think I haven't kicked in like a year. But you, you give me like three months to get in shape and to. I'm going to be, I'm going To be lights out from 40 in.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Consistency, that's what you need. He's just trying to test you. So I actually did have one last question. This is. He's trying to test you because I know how Coach Gillingham is. Rollback question. Rho, B, A, C, K.com promo code. Take 20 off your first purchase. Qzips, polos, hoodies, joggers, shorts. Rollback.com promo code, take go right now and buy it. My last question. And I know what you're doing to pft, because I know you pretty well in just reading everything and talking to you. You. You just like guys who want to compete. So you have a ping pong table that you. You basically have the rule that if you beat someone in ping pong and they don't want to play again, you're like, that guy's not for me. So how. How much. How much of that is, like, real? Where it's like, you know, if we play a video game and you don't want to play again, I don't really want you around because I want you to have that dog where you're like, I gotta win a game.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Yeah. It's not. I mean, I say that jokingly, but it's somewhat like It's. It's not 100% true. I just want to see somebody who's, like, passionate about it. Like, we're doing something, we're competing in something. Like, if I beat you and you're like, oh, what's the next thing that we're doing on our visit?

[Big Cat]

Right.

[Kenny Dillingham]

That doesn't. I. I don't connect with people like that. Like, I grew up, up the youngest of four, where I got my butt beat. Beat and everything. And, like, I would hate it, and I'd be like, play again. Play again. I want people that, like, want to be the very best and that are wired in a way that I don't care if they're playing tiddly winks, they want to win. I don't even know what a tiddly wink is, but I. I've heard the saying before, and they want to win in it. And whether it's spades, whether it's chess, whether it's ncaa, I want people that. It pisses them off to lose.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Bothers them. It's uncomfortable.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. I like that.

[PFT Commenter]

Love that mantra. So is there anybody else on your team that you want to shout out, like an unsung leader of the program? Because we spend a lot of time talking about the running back, the quarterback, but is there a Guy on the team that's like the heartbeat of the team, that's kind of operating behind the scenes.

[Kenny Dillingham]

Yeah. One of those guys would be Xavian Alford, our starting safety who was first team all conference. He started his career at Texas, transferred from Texas, went to usc, you know, didn't work out there. Transferred from usc, shows up at Arizona State. The NCAA deemed him ineligible for transferring. Twice is before the rules changed. So then he practiced for a year and a half without playing here and now he's first team all conference. The what? He's put. The work he's put in. He's the guy who gives our pregame speeches if you ever watched any of our videos. I don't give pregame speech speeches. I'm horrible at it. But he's good at it. So he's the one who gives the pregame speeches to the guys. He's definitely one of those guys.

[Big Cat]

I love it.

[PFT Commenter]

Love it.

[Big Cat]

We're rooting for you guys. Yeah. I mean, this is. It's why I love college sports, this type of story and someone who's got the passion that you've got, especially for Arizona State. Don't let Pete Prisco back on the bandwagon, by the way. He's a friend of ours. He's going to say that he never left. He definitely left a bandwagon. So we'll gatekeep the bandwagon for you when it comes exclusively to just Pete Prisco.

[Kenny Dillingham]

That sounds good.

[Big Cat]

Okay. All right. Thanks so much, coach. We really appreciate it, man.

[PFT Commenter]

See you, coach.

[Kenny Dillingham]

I appreciate it. Go Devils.

[PFT Commenter]

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[Big Cat]

Okay, Hank, guys on chicks.

[Hank]

Michigan fan here and I am buzzing from Saturday.

[Big Cat]

What?

[Hank]

Michigan fan here and I am buzzing from Saturday. Is this old? Yeah.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Okay, maybe they were just buzzing from. Oh, okay.

[Hank]

I've been dating my boyfriend for four months.

[PFT Commenter]

Wait, is this still the Michigan fan?

[Hank]

Nope. Okay, maybe I've been dating my boyfriend for four months. We in our late 20s and he absolutely loves basketball. Recently he joined a league where two teams play the unusually usually happens as it sounds a bunch of middle aged men play against recently, recently graduated high schoolers the Unks and have. This is written incorrectly. The Unks and have an X D1 football player and always win. And my husband takes great pride. Each week he makes fake newspaper articles and AI generated podcasts glorifying himself for his performances. He recently said he's considering going to an open NBA tryout because he dropped a triple double against a team of 18 year olds. Should I be honest and tell him he isn't good enough or should I let him let try and live his dream teams?

[PFT Commenter]

I love this idea for a league where it's just two teams and you only have one team that you play against and you play against them all the time. It's like, it's like gangs.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, it's Harlem Globetrotters and the Washington Generals.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, no, I think guys got to have a hobby. He's creating an alternate universe for himself.

[Hank]

That's a normal thing to do with like fantasy football and you know, rec leagues and stuff. Someone always takes it seriously. But that's not a bad thing.

[Big Cat]

Also, what were you gonna say, Max?

[Jack]

I want, I want us to put out this graphic of like that he's. That he's joining it.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jack]

I want, I want to fulfill us to fulfill this guy's dream.

[Big Cat]

Yes, send us. Yes, send us a recap and we'll talk about it. It's a national sports pod. We'll talk about it. Also, judging from this blurb that the girl wrote in, nothing better. Nothing better than playing intramural rec sports, whatever it is, and having like a true insane athlete on your team because that's really what it sounds like he's just good because he's got a D1 football player on his team. But when you. Like, when you get in those situations, you're like, we have a true ringer, and there's just no way we can lose. Best feeling in the world.

[Hank]

I do love take a scramble golf when you have a scratch golfer.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, yeah.

[Big Cat]

Like when you took all the money from me at your club with that guy who's a PG dj pro.

[Hank]

Shout out to Kurt. That was.

[PFT Commenter]

I love what he's doing, though. I love that he's creating, like, this entire thing, entire narrative storylines about his team. You'd rather have a guy like that than a guy that just doesn't do anything.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Hank]

Hello, big cat. Pft. Hanky wanky and crybaby.

[Big Cat]

Max.

[PFT Commenter]

That was mean.

[Hank]

My husband. I forgot about that tweet. My husband dips and constantly leaves his spitters around the house. He tells me, don't throw them away until they are full. I think this is absolutely gross. But he thinks it's better than making a new one every day and then proceeds to say it's good for the environment.

[Max]

They get their full.

[Hank]

What do I even say back to that?

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, he's right. Although it is gross.

[Hank]

Spitters are gross.

[PFT Commenter]

Disgusting habit. I remember when we first started working out of the New York office, and it was a time when there were no Lucy's. There were no nicotine pouches. Like, everybody in that office dipped constantly.

[Hank]

And Mountain Dew bottles.

[PFT Commenter]

No, I was talking about caps on. The Mountain Dews are different because they're, like. They're green, so they're little tinted. But people walking around with, like, Pepsi bottles and water bottles that were just filled to the brim with dip spit, Everybody, all the time. That was. That was gross. Looking back on it, it's.

[Big Cat]

It's because.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

I mean, I'm a Lucy guy, but it. You know, back in the day, having tip, you can't have a bottle after it gets, like, a quarter full. You got to throw. Throw it out because then you're spitting and it's splashing back. It's gross.

[PFT Commenter]

Can we.

[Big Cat]

If you, like, fill one up. That's just disgusting.

[PFT Commenter]

Can we bring back the spittoon that they had in cartoons where you would, like, spit into it from across the room and make that nice, satisfying ding.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Shout out this guy for looking out for the environment, though. What a great spin zone.

[Jack]

Everyone in this room has accidentally tasted y spit, right?

[Max]

Oh, yeah.

[Hank]

I mean, I. I only went to college for a year, but in my college days and when I lived in, in Boston, my roommates dipped and I didn't. And the. The number of times like waking up and drinking, being hungover and taking a sip of something and it being dip spit like there's truly no worse. Nothing worse with a hangover.

[Jack]

Yeah, I live in a baseball house.

[Hank]

Drinking dips, but yeah, there was just dip everywhere.

[Jack]

Everywhere.

[Big Cat]

Everywhere.

[Hank]

I'm a guy but think this question is pertinent. Every time my wife comes home after running errands, going to the gym, etc, etc, she asked me if I jacked off while she was gone. How can I get her to stop asking me besides saying yes and having a weird conversation every time? I also don't want to lie to her, but the answer is usually.

[Jack]

I.

[Big Cat]

Was gonna say he's definitely jerking off.

[PFT Commenter]

So.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. What?

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, I think, I think this guy's confused because she just 100 has your number.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

And she. And you have a tell. There's something where she comes back and she knows maybe don't do a good enough job cleaning up. That's why she's asking you all the time. If you stop jacking off, I bet you she'd stop asking.

[Big Cat]

Maybe turn off the porn before she gets back. Yeah, that'd be funny. If she just kept on walking into him blasting porn.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. Or she like goes on the computer and autocorrect just pops up.

[Big Cat]

Also. Yeah. Just don't jerk off a couple times say no and she'll probably stop asking. If you keep saying yes, maybe you can get some. Yeah.

[Max]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

Just like no. I was saving her for you. Girls love hearing that. Yeah, you're probably, you're probably.

[PFT Commenter]

You're fucking up because she's coming back. She might be horny and she's from the gym.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

She's asking you if you jacked off because she wants to bang.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

And when. When you don't immediately respond with let's go bone, then she's like, he jacked off.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, he must have jacked off.

[Hank]

This was a tweet. I don't know. I. It got. It went pretty viral on Twitter from Tori. Tweeted my sister asked for a pod wreck for a six hour drive.

[Big Cat]

This.

[Jack]

This isn't guy. This isn't guys on chicks.

[Hank]

Obviously to listen to part of my take. This is her review and this is from Lex. So this is chicks.

[PFT Commenter]

Okay.

[Hank]

Yeah. Max from Hashtag PMT is so annoying when he sucks off the eagles constantly. So that was Lex's review.

[Big Cat]

I think that was on Friday's Episode. So it was after his Lions rant, which did make no sense. But we have to let him just do what he wants. That was. It was natural. He was doing it off air, too.

[Jack]

That was just, like, immediate aftermath of a game that didn't go your way.

[Big Cat]

Correct. So I do think that people forget sometimes that, like, we will record a right after a game, and that is the dumbest time for us. Like, the dumbest time for our brains is immediately after a game and having zero time to process what we watch. Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

You know what? The best way to do it is to watch another game and then go ahead and talk about the game before the last.

[Big Cat]

Right.

[PFT Commenter]

You saw.

[Big Cat]

But we can't. We're not able to process. No.

[PFT Commenter]

Nor do we want to.

[Big Cat]

No.

[PFT Commenter]

And also, I don't think the podcast would be as good. Do you want to sit there and listen to somebody that you agree with all the time?

[Big Cat]

If we're just like, yeah, actually looking over my notes, you know, they should have gone, no. I just want to be like, hey, dumb coach, stupid interception. Too many home games. They play all their games podcast done.

[PFT Commenter]

If you want somebody that gets it right, like, listen to Malcolm Gladwell or talk to her.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, we ain't ever going to get it right, and we take pride in that. But, yeah, Lex, was it? Lex, we heard your. We heard you.

[Jack]

I understand.

[PFT Commenter]

We take criticism, you know, valid criticism. We take it seriously. So we will make steps to make sure that Lexus feels like her needs have been met.

[Big Cat]

And for the fans, just so you know, at home, Max and Hank are actually very aware. They'll oftentimes, like, it was probably every, like, once a month for each of them. We'll finish the show and they'll just be like, I talk too much.

[PFT Commenter]

Oh, yeah.

[Big Cat]

Oh, that.

[Jack]

Oh, that Friday, I was thinking, I was like, that was a big talk.

[Big Cat]

Too much.

[Hank]

I mean, Max has to do it now. For the, you know, the five or six years when I was editing the podcast, I would be listening back and then hear myself talk and then get mad and be like, why do you.

[Big Cat]

Ever edit yourself out?

[Hank]

Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. In the beginning, the first few years, I was editing everything.

[Jack]

As soon as I started, I just go like 4x speed that you can't even actually hear what I'm.

[Big Cat]

I think. I think you guys don't talk too much. I love having multiple voices, like memes. He's been talking all episode.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. Do you guys ever get the thing where, like, you. You record a podcast, then you go home and you go to sleep. Usually, like, on a Sunday, it'll be late. We'll, you know, try to fall asleep at like 12:31am and as you're laying there in bed trying to fall asleep, you just keep saying yourself, I shouldn't have said that one thing all the time. You know that you're wrong. You know, you know that you are very wrong. And then you just know that you have to wake up the next day and have hundreds of people tell you that you were wrong about the thing that you know that you're wrong.

[Big Cat]

Or like, I shouldn't have reacted that way all the time. And I'm, I think that's actually why we're successful, is that we actually are still critical of ourselves. Because if we, if I went home every night and been like, nailed that. Yeah, it would probably suck. But, yeah, no, I, I don't sleep.

[Jack]

I edited out, like, a whole thing that we said last episode about what we just kept talking about how Tez Watkins from Oregon is a really good receiver. Is name is Tez Johnson.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, that's walk.

[PFT Commenter]

That's, that's why I just called him Tez.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, we appreciate that. Yeah. Good job.

[Hank]

Complete denial that anyone even listens to the show and that this is a podcast and that's how, that's how I live my life.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. No, I, I, I, I know the minute I get something wrong, like, I get in my car on Sunday nights and I am like, oh, then I just have that moment, like, ah, whatever. I, they'll hopefully be, they'll be cool about it.

[Hank]

Like, this is my career. But I just tell myself, like, oh, I, I was never going to be like, you know, and I don't consider myself someone whose opinion matters in sports talk. So, like, it doesn't matter.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Hank]

Doesn't matter how dumb you are.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, it does matter.

[Big Cat]

All right, good show, boys. The whole booth is here. Booth. We got anything to say about Luigi? We disavow. I mean, we got a whole booth of Italian.

[Jack]

I'm, I'm curious to see what, what the. What the next play is for Luigi?

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Did you see the YouTube video?

[Big Cat]

What? What do you think? Mario's going to break him out.

[Jack]

Was that fake?

[PFT Commenter]

What?

[Hank]

Yes.

[Big Cat]

What do you think is going to happen the next play?

[Jack]

I don't know. He said that there. He said it's not over. I saw, I saw a tick tock.

[Big Cat]

I'm pretty sure it's over.

[Hank]

It was a fake YouTube video or like, it was him that made it.

[PFT Commenter]

It's just kind of wild. That he got arrested for acting suspiciously in a McDonald's?

[Big Cat]

I think the answer.

[Hank]

I didn't want to get into it.

[PFT Commenter]

The answer might into it.

[Big Cat]

Hank.

[PFT Commenter]

Hank, need your thoughts. Can't edit this one out, buddy.

[Big Cat]

I was going to say the answer to my question. While Hank thinks, collects his thoughts, that ins instant reaction from our Italian booth. Hopefully Luigi doesn't get an Italian lawyer.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

Shows up the first day. He's like, did you see a YouTube video?

[Jack]

The YouTube. I mean, it looked like it would have been interesting if it was. If it were real.

[Big Cat]

Okay.

[Jack]

But apparently it's not. It's not.

[Big Cat]

Hank.

[Hank]

I. I don't know.

[PFT Commenter]

You don't want to get Tank.

[Hank]

I just take everything with a grain of salt. I'm not just going to believe everything. There's a lot of things that don't make any sense, and it's basically everything.

[Big Cat]

The media lies to you.

[Jack]

You know what's disappointing to the listeners is that we're gonna have a great post show conversation about whatever Hank's thoughts are right now.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, yeah.

[Hank]

But this is where I get actually in my head, because it's like, I'm not trying to spew conspiracy theories and then have everyone.

[Big Cat]

You know what? Well, actually take some time because I.

[Hank]

Know I'm not informed, but my initial reaction is Friday.

[Big Cat]

Let's get a little presentation.

[Hank]

I just writes down their manifesto as a young kid.

[PFT Commenter]

Ted Kaczynski.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, right.

[PFT Commenter]

Pretty famous.

[Hank]

No, but I'm saying, like, he's a. He's a.

[Big Cat]

He's a youth. Okay?

[Hank]

Youth aren't writing three pages.

[Jack]

So you're saying if it was a notes app, that. That it would be believable?

[PFT Commenter]

I don't think if it's three pages, that's manifesto.

[Big Cat]

Hey, you put together, like, presentations for.

[Hank]

Me, and I never in person.

[Big Cat]

Okay? Never.

[Hank]

Like physical copies.

[Big Cat]

Here's what we'll do.

[Hank]

And he's way younger than me.

[PFT Commenter]

I just. I wonder if, you know, he was a heart throb after his picture went out there. Girls were, like, swooning all over him. I wonder if he got to actually, like, enjoy his, like, brief celebrity run.

[Big Cat]

No, probably not.

[PFT Commenter]

You don't think anybody. You don't think he boned and the girl recognized him? It was like, wait, the only.

[Big Cat]

They only recognize him? They arrested him?

[PFT Commenter]

Well, yeah, no, before that. He was on the run for, like, four days.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, but no one knew who he was.

[PFT Commenter]

Somebody knew who he was.

[Big Cat]

Full face. Like, his face job. But, like, no one knew he was on the run.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, but you don't think anybody else recognized him. It was like your. Your eyebrows look like that guy.

[Big Cat]

Maybe. Yeah, that was. The big takeaway is like, guys like him, guys like me, guys like Nikki Smokes. We shouldn't be doing that with our eyebrows. Yeah, you just get caught. Jets Jaguars game preview on Friday will be Hank's conspiracy theory hour. I give you a full hour. Numbers 11, 3, 8, 99, Pug, 17, 95, 21.

[PFT Commenter]

What'd you say, Jack?

[Big Cat]

Jack said 19.

[Jack]

19, right, Jack. 19 for Jack.

[Big Cat]

93. Someone say 93? No one said 93. I thought Pug did.

[PFT Commenter]

He said 99. Pug.

[Big Cat]

94 is coming soon.

[PFT Commenter]

Love you guys.

[Big Cat]

Sa.

[PFT Commenter]

Sa.