Loading summary
Transcript74 lines
- [00:00]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
It's almost Valentine's Day, so we thought it would be a great time to talk about neurodivergence and romantic relationships. Helping kids and teens navigate romantic interests and relationship is an interesting part of parenting for most parents, dare I say all parents. But it can be kind of a different beast a little bit when we're trying to support our neurodivergent kiddos on their journey because it can just be a little bit nuanced and a little bit layered and it can also be super cute. And there are also times when hormones are raging and there are tears and confusion and overwhelm and just like your kid is going back and forth, you sometimes as a parent also feel like you're going back and forth.
- [00:47]
Brianne Colpitz
Yeah. Thinking about my poor mom when I was a teen in that one. So, yeah. And then like when we say when. With so many of the topics on this show, neurodivergence just adds another layer. So understanding the norms, decoding social cues, deciding if, when, or how to tell someone about your neurodivergence when it comes to this, yeah, it's layered.
- [01:08]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
It is layered. And today we're going to talk about all the things, what additional things we might want to be thinking about that might come into play for neurodivergent people in romantic relationships, how we can support ourselves through that and our kids in the process of exploring, establishing, maintaining, or ending romantic relationships. Welcome to parenting neurodivergent humans. I'm Dr. Morgan Vitalman. I am a clinical psychologist, former school psych, former teacher, neurodivergent myself and parent to two humans, one of whom is neurodivergent.
- [01:48]
Brianne Colpitz
And I'm Brianne Colpitz. I'm a school psychologist turned social coach for twice exceptional kids. I'm a mom to a couple neurodivergent kids and a late realized ADHD human, which means I'm double blessed with autism and adhd. Thanks for being here. We're so glad you're here. Okay, first, we talked about this a couple weeks ago in our neurodivergence and gender identity episode. But I think it's worth mentioning again. Until quite recently, common teaching was that neurodivergent people and people with other disabilities were not interested in or even capable of romantic interest or relationships. In fact, still to this day, people who receive SSI or Supplemental Security Income due to their disability are penalized for being married. It's what is called the SSI marriage penalty. We will link an article about this topic in the show. Notes. If you want to Learn more. But my point of bringing this up is to say that this is a perception that disabled people can't or don't want to have romantic relationships. It's still baked into our society and our laws, y'all. Progress has definitely been made, but we are not there yet. So check out the show notes if. If you want to get mad.
- [03:08]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
I also think it's important to know that, because there can be some bias that comes into our own role as parents, as educators, etc, when we're around younger people, and we might not even realize where that bias comes from. And I think this penalty is a good example of it kind of being, to some extent, baked into the fabric of.
- [03:30]
Brianne Colpitz
Yeah.
- [03:32]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
And so we, you know, we might be focused on one of our kids and not even thinking about another one of our kids. And it's like, oh, well, wait a minute. Romantic relationships are kind of like part of most people's hardwiring. Most. Yeah, being individuals with disabilities. And so we bring that up not to shame anybody if you hadn't thought about your child as potentially having romantic interests, but just to name that, like, it might be baked into the fabric of our society without us even really thinking about it or realizing it. And it shows in these ways, such as the SSI penalty. So I want to talk about a concept that we have kind of touched on many times but never directly talked about. And that's the idea of a spiky profile. I'm actually in the personal process of renaming this to a star profile. Oh, spiky. I think, like defensive, Like.
- [04:25]
Brianne Colpitz
Yeah.
- [04:26]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
And a star profile, same concept. If you take the, you know, idea of a spikes, but you put it into the shape of a star, you have points that, you know that are higher and more out there, and then you have ones that are more rescinded or sucked in. And I think that that is kind of actually a beautiful representation of these profiles, where you have points of maybe things that are more well developed or even exceptionally developed, and then things that might be a little bit less developed or really underdeveloped for that individual. And just like there are many different ways to make a star, there are many different ways to make these stars star or spiky profiles. And a lot of our neurodivergent people have elements of these star profiles. They have elements of greatness, exceptionality. And they have areas of things that are underdeveloped. And these uneven skills means that they can excel and struggle simultaneously. They can excel and struggle at the same time, which can lead ourselves, even as parents who love our kids and spend so much time around them to have a response that is sometimes like, well, of course they should be able to do X. They can do Y and Z. Or I also see this where we're like, they did it yesterday. Of course, today I find that in myself. I'm like, yesterday, you did the thing. Do the thing again. Come on.
- [05:53]
Brianne Colpitz
Yeah. I think that's the biggest one for parents. That's confusing because it's like, wait, I thought we had tying shoes mastered, but now you need help with it today. And it's like, yeah, that's legit. Other things are happening in my brain and body today that make that skill inaccessible to me. So, yeah, I think that's super confusing for folks. And it's also what's real.
- [06:16]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
Yeah. And we also see this show up in a lot of ways, particularly in. In social and relationship skills, where they can excel in this long list of things. And they can also excel, gosh, just, like, beautifully in some aspects of social relationships and be so kind of evolved and deep thinkers and cognizant, aware of other people's needs and empathetic, but then really struggle in other areas, like some aspects of. For example, today's topic, romantic relationships.
- [06:49]
Brianne Colpitz
Yeah. So the spiky profile shows up in all aspects of life, but romantic relationships definitely is one where we see that a lot. Being unsure of how to decode their own feelings could be part of this. Do I like this person? What does having a crush feel like? I think for some of my clients, they have identified as demiromantic, which you'll have to look that up. But it's. It basically means, like, I need to be friends with someone before I feel anything more. And so figuring out the nuance of that can be a lot. People feeling like they don't understand the unwritten rules of crushes, flirting, dating. Like, everyone's got an instruction book that somehow they didn't get it, and it's confusing. So getting feedback from others that they did something that was perceived as strange or wrong and they just didn't realize it. That is a common experience as well. So lots of different things to tease out when it comes to this topic of being in romantic relationships and being wired in a neurodivergent way.
- [07:52]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
Yes. Something that you just said there made me think of a couple things that I often hear as themes from my clients. One related to this is that there's almost like a mismatch of intensity.
- [08:06]
Brianne Colpitz
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [08:07]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
So I have a lot of clients who are neurodivergent and regardless of their diagnosis, they experience kind of like hyper fixation, increased emotionality. So that, you know, basically just means that they can get real focused on something and they can have big feelings about it.
- [08:23]
Brianne Colpitz
Yeah.
- [08:23]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
And sometimes they're like, am I just interested in this person? Like, do I think they're very cool as a human, or do I have romantic feelings? And trying to tease those things out.
- [08:35]
Brianne Colpitz
Yeah, I. I'm gonna self disclose that I, as an adult, even feel like I get really jazzed about somebody. A new person will come into my awareness, and then I'll just want to know everything they've published or written or whatever. And it's like, yeah, I can see how that also happened throughout my lifespan. And there was some heartache and heartbreak because of those types of traits in my brain, you know, that made some of this stuff really hard as a young person.
- [09:02]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
Yeah, I completely agree. I often talk to people about, like, having professional crush crushes. Instagram crushes, and I do the exact same thing. One time I got. I think I've told this story before, but I had watched two movies back to back with Jake Gyllenhaal, and he played such wildly different characters. Both times, I almost forgot I was watching Jake Gyllenhaal, and it was just like whatever character it was, and I loved that, and I was so impressed by it. And so then I went on a deep dive, and I'm not kidding, it was like 72 hours. And I watched countless movies, read countless articles, and as an adult, like, I realized it wasn't. I wasn't romantic. I wasn't like, oh, I wasn't Twitter hated about him as a person. I wasn't like. What I was very hyper fixated on was the depth of his craft and the way that he's involved, evolved in his field and the journey his mental health had been on. And I was just like, consume, consume, consume.
- [10:03]
Brianne Colpitz
Yeah. Yeah. So imagine that as your teenager. Yeah. Because Dr. Morgan was a teen at one point or to help us all. You survived it. You survived it. But if you're in the thick of.
- [10:16]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
It, everybody else did, too.
- [10:18]
Brianne Colpitz
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.
- [10:22]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
My poor parents. Thanks, Tom and Debbie.
- [10:25]
Brianne Colpitz
Yeah.
- [10:28]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
I don't know.
- [10:30]
Brianne Colpitz
Okay, so let's talk about, like, I.
- [10:32]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
Don'T know, like, other things.
- [10:34]
Brianne Colpitz
Yeah, let's get off of Jake Gyllenhaal and move on.
- [10:39]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
My hyper fixation is ending. I'm gonna do another topic. Oh, this is another good one. I just saw my notes on this time and space and sensory issues. That come up for neurodivergent people. I hear this a lot in my practice. This is a major theme for teens and young adults. Sometimes even older adults. I guess we just call them adults after young adults anyways. And where there's like a sensory component to relationships that can be hard. And so learning your kind of own needs and how to communicate that effectively can be a lifelong journey. Like sometimes there's like almost too much time together. Sometimes there's immense needs for time apart. Sometimes there's, you know, different desires for physical touch. And that can be hard in some aspects of romantic relationships, particularly for those older teens, young adults and just plain adults.
- [11:40]
Brianne Colpitz
Yeah. Sensory needs are big in that. So navigating when sharing space with somebody. So maybe, you know, later in life, sharing a bed with someone, considering living with someone, even just being a roommate with someone, Finding ways to compromise when possible is great. But also acknowledging and respecting that some of these things may be non negotiables. Yeah. So it's okay if these needs mean that things look. Maybe they look different than what you know is on the Hallmark channel. Maybe you don't eat the same foods at dinner. Maybe you sleep in separate beds. Experiment and figure out what works for you. Because I feel like we get stuck in what things should look like. You know how we talk about that listeners about the shoulding on ourselves. But things can be whatever they need to be. Many neurodivergent people need extra recovery time after school or work or social events. I know that's true for me. You need to be open about these needs. Maybe you want to incorporate this person into some of these needs. Maybe watching something together or just sitting quietly together meets your recovery needs. Maybe it doesn't. It's okay if you need time just for you, so don't forget about that. Maybe your teen takes an hour alone after school and then sees our friends later. Maybe you and your partner have 30 minutes of alone time after the kids go to sleep and then you do something together. Our point here is just that we have to honor our neurotype even within relationships. And so whatever that looks like for you, it needs to meet your needs. And it's okay if it looks different than what other people are doing. And also remember that when you're supporting your kids through these things, that it doesn't have to look like what we think it's supposed to look like. There is no exact recipe that we have to follow when it comes to these things.
- [13:23]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
Yeah. Where we get into difficulty in relationship with other people is when we aren't clear. Because in the void, in the absence of communication, people will fill it in and make up our own story.
- [13:37]
Brianne Colpitz
For sure.
- [13:38]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
Yeah. And so if my partner is moving to the other side of the couch and when in my mind, we are now watching TV and we're going to snuggle and the kids are in bed, giving obviously an adult example, and my partner moves to the other side of the couch and doesn't say anything to me and I don't know much about what's going on for them. I might make up a story like, my partner is mad at me, he doesn't love me anymore. I'm going to fill in a story instead. If I know that my partner does not like all that touch or gets overheated easily. And I might have a very different interpretation. Or if he just says, I'm hot.
- [14:17]
Brianne Colpitz
Yeah.
- [14:18]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
And I'm like, oh, okay. And so that communication can be really valuable. And I talk to a lot of people about kind of making a little twist on the line. Like, it's not you, it's me. Right. Like, you can be like, I know that it sound. It's like a trite kind of line where it's like, it's not you, it's me, but like legit it's me. I just get overheated or I don't like that amount of touch. It feels almost smothering, like. And it's truly nothing to do with you. If I wanted to be smothered by anybody, it would be you.
- [14:46]
Brianne Colpitz
Oh, yeah, I like that. Yep.
- [14:49]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
How you can talk to a partner and be really clear, but also kind of be a little cheeky about it so that they realize that it really isn't them. Some of my clients need more help with that and they need a way to make it feel authentic to them. Right. Like, it's not like they're borrowing my line.
- [15:08]
Brianne Colpitz
Right.
- [15:09]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
They're figuring out a way to communicate that in a way that's light hearted and heartfelt and authentic to them. I think that, that those are the key piece pieces. It's lighthearted, it's authentic to them and it's communicated with care and love.
- [15:22]
Brianne Colpitz
I like that.
- [15:23]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
So, you know, as people in relationship or in community with other neurodivergent people, how do we support and if it's us, you know, or we are looking to help somebody else, like, I think the easiest thing here to do is ask. I feel like a broken record here where I'm like, communicate, communicate.
- [15:44]
Brianne Colpitz
Could that be because it's important?
- [15:47]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
It is so, so important, you know? So just ask. Sometimes neurodivergent kids and teens want help understanding what they are feeling or decoding those social norms. It can feel so tangled and jumbled up in their brains and in their bodies even that on the outside it can sometimes look like defiance or look like irritability or look like numbing out by watching TV or being on a tablet or whatever, or it can look like anxiety and aggressiveness, or it can look like none of those. But like, sometimes, whenever we see something that's divergent or different from how our kid typically acts, my first thought is like, what is going on for them? That they maybe haven't yet communicated.
- [16:35]
Brianne Colpitz
Yeah.
- [16:35]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
And so ask. We can follow their lead. We can provide the support that they're looking for. And other times our kids do not want our support. They don't want our help. And they're happy doing what they're doing. They're happy exploring their romantic relationships or they're not. Those relationships are not a priority for them at the moment. And wherever they are at in that kind of spectrum of experiences is completely normal, valid and okay.
- [17:05]
Brianne Colpitz
Thinking about supporting our kids, I think possibly we have both done this. Something that's happened in some of my social groups with teens before has been kids coming with a text, you know, and being like, I don't know what this means. Help me figure this out. Like, are they flirting with me? Are they just asking a question? How do I respond to this? And I feel like you've helped kids do that before as well. Yeah. And so even adults.
- [17:31]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
I've helped adults do that.
- [17:32]
Brianne Colpitz
Yeah, yeah. Text is when we're communicating. Text can be tricky. Just remember that, that sometimes we might need to help ourselves or our kids figure out what those things mean by, you know, interpreting social information, giving them a hand with that. That has come up a lot with my teens. I also think it's important to be open minded about what relationships look like and what norms people follow in them. Neurodivergent relationships might look different than a stereotypical neurotypical relationship, or they might not, and both are fine. Just reiterating that point that there is no exact recipe for a successful relationship, that it can look how it looks and as long as needs are being met by everybody, then probably okay.
- [18:18]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
Does it look. Have to look the way one of my relationships might look or one of your relationships? No. Is it safe? Is it consensual? Is it something that is additive to your life?
- [18:29]
Brianne Colpitz
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Enhancing your life in some way? Yeah, yeah. So it can look how it looks, as long as it's meaningful and it's enhancing your life in a positive way, then I think, you know, we can say that's a healthy relationship. And I think modeling and teaching about healthy relationships and boundaries is super important. I try to do that with my kids by like explaining things that are happening. You know, like I'm grumpy with dad right now, but we're. I'm going to take some space and we're going to work it out because that's what we do. And I think to your point about like naming off like consensual, like you're helping identify green flags for the kids or maybe even yourself if this is helpful for you in your own grown up relationship. So is it respectful? Are we communicating well? And also we might have to work together to become better communicators with one another. That's like a lifelong thing. In my relationship is like continuing to be better communicators.
- [19:24]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
You explain the concept of a green flag.
- [19:27]
Brianne Colpitz
Yeah. So if you're making a pros and cons column, right. This would be in the pros. This is an asset. Green flag is good. Okay. It's like positive to the relationship. It's a positive indicator that we are in a healthy relationship or that this person is a match for us. Right. The opposite of that is a red flag. So thinking about green flag, is this person emotionally aware? Are they supportive of you? Do you feel like there's mutual trust? Can you be yourself around this person? Before we were recording, I was talking about how as a young person, I didn't know I was neurodivergent and I was just out there masking and trying to just fit in and not get any negative feedback from people. And so I knew how to be a girlfriend. That was a role I could play. I basically always had a boyfriend because I didn't know who I was without one. Let's make sure we can be ourselves around people and that we even know who we are. Because that's a lot too.
- [20:25]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
Yeah, absolutely. I also don't want people to feel like everybody has to be super evolved to be in a relationship. Sometimes I work with especially young adults who are like, oh, I'm not ready to be in a relationship because I'm not fully self aware and I don't have all of these skills.
- [20:44]
Brianne Colpitz
Who amongst us is? Right.
- [20:46]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
Yeah, I want to just like level set for people. Like nobody is perfect. Most people aren't evil. Right. Like, we are all just kind of bumbling along here, here you want to just reduce the number of harmful things that are happening in a relationship and over time increase the positive things. But just because somebody is not fully evolved, fully self aware yet does not necessarily mean that you need to leave the relationship. It just means that you want to figure out if you guys are fitting well together and that there is love and you feel, going back to something you said earlier, like safe and content in that relationship. And also if you and your partner have a fight and it doesn't go well and you're like, you're a blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The other person's like, well, you're being a blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That does not necessarily, when that is all said and done and the dust settles, it does not mean that you have to end a relationship. It could, it could mean that when you reflect on it, you're like, woof. We are in different places, we are mismatched. But it can also be a place where you're like, ooh, we were under skilled in that disagreement. And like, let's try to fight differently next time. And that's some theme that I see in my practice where people are either really worried about their own skills or they're really quick to jump out of a relationship when something doesn't go well, we're human, we're going to fight, we're going to make mistakes and we're going to be imperfect in relationships. And that doesn't necessarily mean we stay and it doesn't necessarily mean we go.
- [22:24]
Brianne Colpitz
One thing that I've learned about myself is when I feel stress, I am a runner away, I flee. I have had to realize that I need to work on my own discomfort when things aren't going how I want them to. We evolve over a life, right? There can be some very emotionally aware teens, but a lot of teens are figuring this stuff out because that's what you do when you're a teen. You figure out who you are outside of your family. Right. And who you are as a person. And many of us are on that journey for a lifetime. So thank you for clarifying that and level setting because many of these things we're talking about are a life's evolution, you know?
- [23:03]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
Yes, yes. Number of times I hear one person talking and I. And they're talking about the other, this other person. And I'm listening and I'm like, oh, that person is just trying to figure it out, you know, And I can hold space for both of those things. And I'm not saying that one person doesn't Feel some kind of way about what's happening. I can just hold both experiences and I'm like, ah, man, we're just all humans humaning all over the place.
- [23:29]
Brianne Colpitz
Yeah, that's really good context. And I think to get back to this flags idea, helping our kids and ourselves, maybe we're like, oh, I need some of this information as well and it's okay. Be where you are, you know. So we're helping identify red flags, which could be like, somebody's dismissive of you, they're jealous a lot, they pressure you, they're aggressive, they try to isolate you, and you just don't feel like it's safe to be yourself around them. Those are all red flags. So opposite of green flag. These are warning signals. These are things to be aware of, to possibly evaluate should I, you know, remain in this relationship or not, because they detract from my overall wellness. It can also just be an indicator that it's a mismatch. So it doesn't mean that this person is a bad person or whatever. It's just maybe your values or your wants or your needs, they don't align and that's okay. Like you figure out your significant other wants kids, and you're like, I'm not passing these genes on to nobody or whatever it is. And maybe you have very different lifestyles or you're incompatible with your faith or worldviews. Those can be red flags. And it's not like it's a danger, it's just not a match. Teaching our kids about a third reality, that maybe the person is great, but they are just not a fit for you anymore. So that could be a red flag. Could not. It could just be okay. And that's okay. We don't have to like fear monger around those things. And then I think just working through, sharing their neurodivergence with people, which we've talked. We did a whole episode on that with a worksheet, so make sure you go check that out. So how would I share my neurodivergence with somebody that I am romantically interested in if that's something they want to do? And yeah, go walk through that worksheet we have. If you feel like you need some support for that.
- [25:16]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
You know something else that I think is important. I have a group of younger kids in my practice, kind of like middle school. And what I have seen over the years is that I have. I have this theme in those middle schoolers. They have a tendency to think of the way that that relationship ship is or should Be is the way an adult relationship is or should be. And so it's like, oh, I have found my partner at 12 or 13 and this is like my partner for life. I find that to be more common in my neurodivergent humans than neurotypical that I have worked with. Who knows why that is? Somebody go research it. But I do see that a lot. And so something that I do with a lot of kids in my practice, as I will explain to them, there is a whole season of our lives. For many people that season is like middle school through mid-20s, late 20s, but it could be even longer and it could scan a whole lifetime where part of the things that we're doing in relationships is enjoying each other, learning about other people and learning about ourselves. And that those relationships do typically end and that it's not a bad thing. It means that that season is done with and we don't have to like blow up the relationship. We don't have to talk negatively about the person when it ends and we don't have to think that we're terrible. That's actually the life cycle of many relationships during this phase of life, however long that phase of life lasts for somebody and. But it does typically last for many people through mid to late 20s.
- [26:57]
Brianne Colpitz
I think what's really hard is when you're wired with a very kind of all or nothing thinking type of wiring, or you're very like this or that, maybe you will call it binary thinking.
- [27:08]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
That it's like one or the other.
- [27:11]
Brianne Colpitz
Exactly, yeah, exactly like this or that. To your point of thinking that you're gonna date your seventh grade boyfriend, like you're already planning your kids names and things like that. It can be hard to think about the nuance of that, that that's probably maybe not gonna happen, you know. And I'm not saying like get out there and crush your middle schoolers relationship fantasies or anything, but it can be hard to accept the nuance to even know it exists if your wiring is such that you struggle with that in other areas too. So I guess just if you're raising a kid like that, if you have neurology like that, if you can be aware of that, I think you're gonna feel better about yourself, you're gonna have a better outcome because you're gonna understand what Morgan just said or come to understand that sometimes things are just a season, right? And that can even be friendships. You know, it can be so many things like we play sports for a season and maybe we were coupled with this person for a season. And we can be grateful for that or we can be glad it's over if it wasn't great.
- [28:07]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
Exactly. And those are opportunities to learn about your own needs and communicate those to others and set boundaries and prioritize the needs within relationships. And that's great practice, right? Yeah, we're just learning. We're learning. And that's the name of the game in romantic relationships that our kids are going through. I think the big thing is I don't, I never want to dismiss that experience for them, but I also want to level set it for them so that they don't have this additional pressure that I feel like a lot of our neurodivergent kids have around a relationship that it has to last forever, it has to be good, it has to be this way, I have to be a certain way, etc. Etc.
- [28:52]
Brianne Colpitz
I love that. Helping our kids figure out who's worth their time.
- [28:56]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
Yeah, I should be wrapping this up, I guess.
- [28:59]
Brianne Colpitz
Let's wrap this up, Morgan. Let's wrap it up.
- [29:02]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
Thank you for listening. We'll be back next week talking about neurodivergence in girls and women. This is part of a series that we are doing about these different parts of us that can crisscross or intersect, run into each other. So this next episode is going to be specifically on the intersection or crossing over of women and neurodivergence. So if that is something that you are interested in, please subscribe so you don't miss it. And if you enjoyed this episode and you thought it might be helpful to someone else, please take a second and send it to somebody now.
- [29:40]
Brianne Colpitz
And if you are a good fit for what we're talking about for a good fit for you, if we are vibing, then join our communities. We'd love to have you. You can find us on both Instagram and YouTube under the same hand. Dr. Morgan is Dr. Morgan Vitalman and Brienne is at it's Brienne Culpits. Side note, my 10 year old likes to tell me when I get a new subscriber on YouTube and you could make his day if you go follow me over there. So just a little selfish plug to help my 10 year old think I'm a superstar.
- [30:11]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
That's really cute. As always, if you have a question or a topic that you would like us to cover, please send us a note. That's where we're getting a a lot of our content for season two. So we really, really appreciate you. You can message us here on Instagram or you can use the Google form in the show notes to send us your questions or topic ideas.
- [30:31]
Brianne Colpitz
And we want to give a shout out and a thanks to our editor and producer, Erica Carpenter. We appreciate you as always.
- [30:37]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
Thanks for joining us. See you next week.
- [30:44]
Brianne Colpitz
Vocal exercises. Oh, God.
- [30:54]
Dr. Morgan Vitalman
Just a quick disclosure. This podcast is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute a psychological client relationship and should not be used in place of expert evaluation or therapy. Just to have this conversation with a client the other day, and I was gonna send you a no, Erica, because I was like, we should add this. And I was like, I'm gonna talk to her in 24 hours. I will remember the kiss of death. Why do I do that? Okay, keep going. Maybe I'll remember.
- [31:28]
Brianne Colpitz
Sorry. I saw something shiny.