B (5:50)

Well, to speak to that also, everyone that's criticizing Donald Trump for having this meeting and for trying to make progress, I think that that's equally just criminally insane. I mean, what Biden did to get us into this war was, you know, with, we refused to say that Ukraine won't be joining NATO and that's non negotiable. That was really stupid. And then the fact that we then went off with this storyline that Putin's trying to take over all of Russia. And, and so we had, I mean, all of Europe. And so we got to stop them now. We had to hear that for years. Then we had to hear that we were winning for years. And so this is important for the nation of Ukraine that we continue to back them because they're winning this war and we can't have dictators that are just encroaching on other people. The whole storyline, stupid. And now finally got Donald Trump, who did not end this on day one. And there's a lot of circular motions going on here, which it seems like we just have to divorce ourselves from Ukraine and Europe and then let them actually say, all right, this isn't working and not continue with the war, which. But all of that aside, I mean, the fact that no one's tried to sit down and just talk to Putin directly until now is crazy. And then the fact that the war hawks are giving Donald Trump shit for it, or Bolton's even out there, like he said, he's outclassed. So he shouldn't be sitting down with them or just sitting down with Putin emboldens him. And it's a victory now for Putin because he gets a meeting. It's like, guys, people are just dying for no reason. The easiest way to de escalate this at this point is to let them keep what they, what they took, say that Ukraine's not joining NATO and be done with it. And I guess if Putin decides to be aggressive again, then you're back at the same place with at least more of a world attitude of look, that Guy's actually just being aggressive, but then you're just back at the same place. You're not in a worse place. So, yeah, kudos to Trump for doing it. And, you know, shame on everyone in the media that's trying to say that even just sitting down with Putin is a mistake. That. That doesn't make any sense.

A (7:49)

Well, it's unbelievable. I mean, it's. It's. It really is. Like, again, it's like, if I said it's criminally insane that. That, you know, these meetings haven't been happened the whole time, but, like. And like I'm saying, like, we have. However you feel about it, you know, which I'm not for. But there are all of these, like, kind of global governance bodies. You know, there is the United nations, and there are. You know what I'm saying? Like, there are all. And it's like, you're telling me all of these, like, global governance organizations exist, and rule number one isn't like, hey, if a war ever breaks out or if tensions that look like it's leading to a war ever broke out, the first rule of international law is you guys got to sit down together and try, see if there's any other way that you can resolve your disputes other than just what war is. You know, mass violence and. And innocent people dying. You know, by definition, I don't think there's ever been a war in history where no innocent person ended up dying. So, like, kind of by definition, that's what that means is going to happen. Yeah, I think that's our. But, yes, then the people who demonize it, and they do it in the dark, dumbest possible ways, like the most ridiculous. You know, it's your. Your legitimizing evil or something like that. If you sit down and talk to people, it's, you know, Bless you, Covid. Yeah, there you go. Well, it's like, you know, it's the idea of even saying, like, you're legitimizing evil. You're like, what could be more evil than discouraging peace talks in the middle of a hot war? So, you know, like, maybe. Maybe you don't get to have a comment on who's too evil to meet with. But of course, you know, this is, I think, one of the. The major issues you have. And this is what I was talking about the other day when I was kind of reflecting on my most recent Piers Morgan appearance. But one of the things that happens is. And it's. It's interesting because it's like, it's kind of Right at the center of kind of our, you know, Rothbardian libertarian, you know, insight on the nature of government, which is essentially that, you know, the nature of government is like, it's a criminal organization. That's what governments are. And when you, you know, understand that and you take that into account in your worldview, it just leads to different conclusions than others draw. But particularly when it comes to war, what you see, particularly in the West, I, I mean, which is what I know the best. But in the west, when they're justifying war, all. All of a sudden you notice that, like, people start talking about things like it's a fantasy land, you know, like, they're just, hey, we're. We don't. We don't appease dictators or we don't, you know, you know, these were two of the arguments that I was met with my last time that I was on Piers Morgan. They're both arguments I've been met with before. But, like, one of the arguments was about Ukraine, Ukrainian entry into NATO, and they go, hey, since when can a big country bully around a little country and tell them they can't join whatever security alliance they want to? And, like, that's. That's the way it's presented on this show. Like, hey, since when did bigger nations start telling smaller nations what they could do? You're like, I'm pretty sure since there were big nations and small nations. Like, what world are you even talking about? Like, are you reading out of a storybook right now? Like, what are you. And then I just said to them, I said to the panel filled with, like, one general? And I go, are you telling me that Mexico can join a military alliance with China if they want to? No, they can't. It's just not the case. It's not the case that, like, oh, sovereign nations are allowed to do whatever they want to. Like, sorry, that's not how it works. And America would never accept that anywhere near our own. Let, like, some small, little. The Bahamas try to join, like, a military alliance with Vladimir Putin and see what happens. You know, it's just like, that's not actually how the world works. And we have a whole Monroe Doctrine and there are spheres of influence and. Yes, no, it's just. It's not the case that, like, the Soviets can just put nuclear weapons on Cuba if they want to. Like, you know, and we already lived out that experiment. And then the other thing was the thing about appeasing dictators, like, all of a sudden it becomes like, Vladimir Putin bad, or, you know, what Are you talking about appeasing dictators? The whole world is dictators that America gives money to. What are you talking about? So it's just like a lot of that stuff. But really, again, it's not that the people on CNN and MSNBC are so naive that they don't understand the nature of government, but us, with our brilliant Rothbardian insights, do understand the nature of government. The reason it's so creepy is that, no, this is just the tactic to keep the war going. This is just what they say. I mean, like, what, dude, they. All these people, when you remember when the build up to the war in Iran was going on and like official Israeli members of the government were posting pictures with the son of the Shah, like they were, they were pretty explicitly implicitly saying that, like, hey, here's the rightful leader of, of Iran. Here it is, the son of the last dictator that we installed. That's, that's what we believe. Hereditary monarchy is now the nor. Because everybody know, like, who in their right mind doesn't think that if. Let's just say they had free and fair elections in Iran and the, the political party who won said, no normalization of relations with Israel. No trading oil in dollars, no doing business with the West. No. Right. But there was, but there was a democratic election, or let's say there was a military coup in Iran and a military dictator took over. But he said, we're going to normalize relations with Israel. We're going to open up our oil markets to American oil companies, we're going to trade only in dollars, yada, yada, yada. Who, who do you think D.C. and Tel Aviv would prefer? Do you think they would go? No, we have a commitment to democracy and an open society and we can't, we would never, you know, support. We would never appease a dictator. Like, no, obviously they would choose the latter because that's their policy objectives and that's. You've got 80 years of U.S. foreign policy to back this up. So it's all just, all that stuff is, is just ridiculous. All right, guys, let's take a moment, very special moment, and talk about Body Brain coffee for a moment. Now, a lot of you guys might know about this already. Part of the problem listeners, we're blowing this product up. It's an amazing product, but also it is the creation of the great Louis J. Gomez, who has always kind of backed this show, hosted it on his podcast network, is my partner on partoftheproblem.com and hilarious comedian and great guy. He's just launched this product. We really want to make this a huge success and also because it's a great product. As many of you know, testosterone levels have plummeted. This is probably you. Testosterone is going down nationwide. It's a very strange dynamic. But the average man's testosterone has dropped nearly 40% in the last few decades, and it's not slowing down. That means less strength, less drive, less energy, and ultimately less leadership in your own life. This also, I would argue, means a less libertarian society. 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That will get you 20% off your order right now. Remember again, guys, we want to blow this up, but we also want Louis to know that it was all us who did it. It was not his achievement, it was ours. So make sure to use the promo code Dave20 when you go to bodybrain coffee.com all right, let's get back into the show. The other thing that I got to say really struck me in seeing because I was thinking about it as you're watching, you know, they did. So after the three hour meeting, Trump and Putin had like a little press conference thing. Not too much was said, although a few. There were a few things that were. Were interesting. We could get into that a little bit. But one of the things that just really stood out to me was that I think I could be wrong about this. Someone could double check me. But I think this was the first time they were together since Helsinki, which must have been in 2018 and was 17 or 18. I think it was 2018. And there's just, I Don't know. It was kind of interesting to see the two of them together after all these years. Now, for, you know, for people who don't remember, Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump did meet in Helsinki back in what I believe was 2018. And the huge controversy back then, Rob. Right. Was that Donald Trump said that he believed Vladimir Putin because all the questions were about him interfering in the 2016 election. And Vladimir Putin was like, I didn't interfere in the 2016 election. And then they asked Trump, they said, you know, you know, he's saying he didn't interfere in the election. Do you believe him? And he goes, you know, I believe him. He tells me he wasn't involved in that. I believe him. And this is what the entire corporate media tried to spin as treason by Donald Trump because he dared to say that he trusted Vladimir Putin over his own intelligence agencies. And it is with all of the evidence that's come out since that time and even the most recent stuff that Tulsi Gabbard's been releasing, it is something to think about. The fact that Donald Trump ran in 2016 on detente with Russia. He explicitly ran on getting along with Russia and not moving in this, you know, more and more hostile direction. And then when he tried to do it in 2018, they all accused him of treason for this thing that we've now learned that they completely made up and planted and used just for this purpose. I mean, for a few purposes, but this was one of the major ones. To prevent the democratically elected President of the United States of America from enacting the policy that he ran on that the American people supported to enact his policy with regard to getting along with the biggest nuclear power in the history of the world. It's just that that's. That's a crazy story to then see it all come to. At least they're. They're in the same room, and at least there's talk of trying to end the bloodshed and trying to reach some type of deal. So, I don't know. I was just thinking about a lot of those things, like, all about Russiagate. And it really does. When you see how high the stakes are, it's like it gives you a whole nother level of appreciation for how criminal Russiagate was. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's, it's very easy for us to always, like, stop at the level of the intelligence agencies and tried to frame the duly elected President of the United States of America for treason. Because really, do you, like when you say that out loud, do you need to go further than that? Like, that seems to be enough. That seems to be more than enough for this to be like one of the greatest outrages in the history of the United States of America. Right. But it's actually quite a bit worse than that because it was actually intentionally being used for. To prevent Donald Trump from pursuing his policy agenda, which was to get along with the country with the biggest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the history of the world. And they intentionally thwarted that, and that has already resulted in a war where hundreds of thousands, perhaps well over a million people have died. So, like, it, just like, as you think about that, it really is, it gives you a whole new feeling. Even though, listen, I know the administration is already a failed administration. I know that they're probably not going to deliver on 10% of the good things that they promised. But like, and I know that they're pivoting away from the Epstein cover up, but it does, it did just leave me with another thing of like, man, they really, those people who did Russiagate really need to pay. Like, they really do need to be held to account to that. It's just so. It's hard to overstate what a profound crime that was.

B (21:31)

Yeah, I guess I never really put that all together that we could have been moving in a direction of getting along with Russia, which might have made it more difficult for Biden to, you know, pull off the NATO's going into Ukraine and then provoking that war if we were in a better place. So, yeah, that, that is a, I guess an interesting storyline that lurked in the background there of, you know, the war hawks are the people that are anti Russia kind of instigating that as long as far back as eight years ago.

A (21:59)

Oh, yeah. And I mean, look, it had a huge effect on it because, you know, so much. I mean, look, there's, there's a lot like, there's, there were huge levels of escalation in the hostilities between the US And Russia. You know, I mean, there's, we have a long history of, of having hostilities with Russia, but saying like, post Soviet Union, like the Clinton had the first round of NATO expansion and that was a huge, huge deal. George W. Bush had the, the dual use rockets put into Poland. That was a huge, huge provocation. Like, they all. He got us out of a couple of different really important treaties. Like there, there were steps each way. But the, this disaster, like this catastrophic war, the story of that really starts under Obama in 2014 and, and backing the maid on revolution, recognizing the government that overthrew the, the democratically elected Yanukovych government, like all of that stuff was real. That's when the actual war in Ukraine started, right? Like there was a, a Western backed coup. Then there was after, while the money was flowing in, there was fighting on the street. There was this huge clash, the government's overthrown. And then immediately after the new government comes in, there was a civil war between the east and west of the country. And that went on for years after that. I think something like 15,000 people died in that war. The numbers now pale in comparison to, since Vladimir Putin invaded. But at the time this was a big deal. And Vladimir Putin did send essentially special forces in back then. I think in 2015, maybe he sent them in. And, and in 2014, after the, the coup was done, he annexed Crimea. So like this is when the whole thing starts happening. And so it's in this context, right? It's in, it's in 2014 that the government in Ukraine is overthrown and it's backed by, by, you know, Obama and Joe Biden. And then Vladimir Putin annexes Crimea. This is in 2014, in 2015 and 16, the Civil War is going on. That's when Donald Trump comes in, right? Donald Trump comes in in the middle of like, there's this civil war in Ukraine over US intervention, US European intervention in the region. There's this conflict there. And the guy who gets elected was running on like, let's de, escalate, let's have detente, let's be friends. Now he was more. When they were running, they were talking about what was going on in Syria, but all this was going on too. And so to frame, you know, because, because Russiagate was like a double frame job. It was, they, they framed both Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump. They, they framed Vladimir Putin for overthrowing our elections and they framed Donald Trump for being involved in the conspiracy to do it. But it was all bullshit. None of that was real. And so yeah, then, then you had essentially Donald Trump, and particularly after Helsinki, I mean, the amount of pressure that they impeached him over Ukraine, right? Like this was a, it was an enormous pressure campaign. And what was the, the thing that they impeached him over right now, this was later, but the thing they impeached him over that was such a big deal is that he threatened to hold up weapons shipments into Ukraine while this civil war was going on. Now he ultimately gave in and did that and sent the weapons in. But that's kind of what Russiagate created. It created this Environment where Donald Trump, because he's Trump and he's not like, he never had the intelligence or the creativity to be like, to actually pull off a 4D chess move, you know what I mean? So it would never be like, because like an actual 40 chess or someone who was actually smart enough and like clever enough to like, rise above the thing and go like, oh, here, like, he, he could have had, you know, I don't know, he could have made it. He could have shouted from the loudest bullhorn during all of that Russiagate stuff. He could have used Aaron Mate in the Nation magazine completely debunking the whole thing. Like the, the biggest left wing publication with this left wing journalist has completely debunked Russiagate. But he never even thought to bring that up because he doesn't read and he doesn't know. He had no idea that it had been debunked in the Nation, you know what I mean? Just like. And so instead the, the problem is that Donald Trump isn't actually this like, master manipulator, negotiator who's always playing 40 chess. And so what Donald Trump did instead, in very Trumpian fashion, was he goes, oh, they say I'm a, a puppet of Vladimir Putin. I'm going to show him what a Putin puppet I'm not. I'm going to send weapons into Ukraine and put sanctions on Russia. And then if you remember, Rob, he used to brag about this. You know, they say, they say I'm a puppet of Vladimir Putin. But no one's been harsher on Vladimir Putin. That's Donald Trump's 4D chess. That's what he actually gets, is to be like, oh, yeah, msnbc. Well, just to prove you wrong, I'll do exactly what you want. And so that's where the thing escalates. And then of course, Joe Biden comes back in, Vladimir Putin invades, and the rest is history.

B (27:18)

With all that said, with moving on from Russiagate and having that completely debunked that they did look like friends, which, I mean, I guess that's the better way to engage in diplomacy is to, you know, try and, yeah, of course, feel welcoming and that you can be trusted. It is just kind of, listen, anyone that's saying that Donald Trump shouldn't have had that meeting, I think is, has a bad agenda, which is to try and keep this war going on. And I don't think that this war can be won. I think it can only be escalated and more people can die. I think that's all you Have. But it was kind of classic Donald Trump where he did get his big television spectacle. Not a single details released. No real sign of progress aside from the fact that he actually sat down with the guy. And it just seems like we're kind of in the same circle of Zelensky and Europe going, no, we have to continue this war. Donald Trump saying, no, it needs to be over. But like, with no, I guess, clear path for pulling the trigger on it other than to just throw up our hands and say, we're out of this mess. You guys can go figure it out.

A (28:20)

Yeah, yeah. Well, we can get into, you know, while the details, specific details have not exactly been released about what, what was discussed or what the, you know, the progress. Like, there's not a progress report. Putin did somewhat vaguely say something like, there's still one major obstacle that has to be worked out. But I think that, you know, we know more or less where we're at and we'll. We'll get into that in one second. I did. What was it? No, just before. Oh, here. Before we move on from Russiagate and go to the meeting with Putin and now the latest with Zelensky. I did want to play this just because as we were talking about Russiagate and thinking about this and this is a great little. I got this from. It was Maze, I believe, right? Yeah, Maze. Good Twitter follow, by the way. But it's Maze more M A Z e at M a Z e M O O R. Good Twitter follow. But he posted this, this compilation video of Eric Swalwell which really was just. It's worth for again, you know, like sometimes you got to go back and watch those news clips of like, how crazy the COVID propaganda was. And like, you're like, oh, yeah, fucking forgot they actually did all that. This was a great little compilation of the way they were talking during Russiagate. Like how goddamn criminal this whole frame job was and then the how unashamed they are after even the whole thing falls apart. But here, Natalie, let's. Let's play this clip.

C (29:59)

Mueller used a legal term and did not find a chargeable Russia Trump conspiracy. You talk about collusion and you've also played this for. You talk about it pretty directly as if there was a personal link, a personal activity by Donald Trump established. Take a look.

D (30:19)

All the arrows continue to point to a personal, political and financial relationship that Donald Trump had with the Russians.

A (30:25)

Do you believe the president right now has been an agent of the Russians?

D (30:28)

Yes.

A (30:28)

I'm not hearing the evidence that he's an agent Of Russia?

D (30:31)

Yeah, I think it's pretty clear. It's almost hiding in plain sight.

C (30:34)

Do you believe that the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians in the 2016 campaign?

D (30:38)

Yes.

A (30:39)

Do you believe the president himself colluded with the Russians?

D (30:43)

Yes. There is certainly evidence of collusion, not evidence that met the beyond a reasonable doubt standard. But this president in no way is cleared.

C (30:52)

Do you accept the findings in the Mueller report that do not support some of those claims?

D (30:59)

Well, I accept that I probably should have been out there a little bit earlier, because who knew how many links there were. 200 pages of links. I accept also, Ari, that prior Congresses did not have an imagination to see a president or a campaign have so many concerning conduct and not write laws to prohibit it. But it didn't meet the standard beyond a reasonable doubt. But here's what we know. The Russians helped Donald Trump.

B (31:22)

Sure.

C (31:22)

But to be clear, so. So you're no longer maintaining that he is effectively a, quote, Russian asset?

D (31:28)

No, I think he acts on Russia's behalf, and I challenge him to show me otherwise.

C (31:33)

Well, I guess that's what I'm saying. You accept the findings or not? I mean, one could argue that Barack Obama at times. Again, what does the language mean? Barack Obama was advocating on behalf of Cuba's interests. If some people are critical of his Cuba policy, you clearly, in those quotes, though, we're discussing it at the level of a financial link or a conspiratorial collaboration, which Mueller's evidence doesn't support. So I want to find out, do you accept that?

D (31:59)

No. There's evidence of collusion and coordination there. It doesn't go beyond a reasonable doubt. But that doesn't mean that this is a good guy. I mean, we know the Russians helped him. He asked the Russians to help them. The campaign expected to benefit from it. What we don't know yet is why won't he show us his taxes? Why won't he show us his finances? And look, Ari, if this guy is able to be blackmailed by a porn star, how do we know he's not gonna be blackmailed by Vladimir Putin? That's what we need to understand.

C (32:25)

And this is the last question I'll do on this, and I'm gonna move on. And I appreciate you being here to take the colloquy. Some candidates, you know, there's some people in Congress, we can't even get on. So I appreciate it, but the last question I'm pressing you on, though, is, yes, you can ask all those tough questions, but are you or are you not maintaining the asset theory, Even though a 400 plus page report from Mueller does not document that.

D (32:46)

I think he acts on Russia's behalf too many times and he puts their interests ahead of our interests. He pulled us out of Syria. He wants to reduce the role of NATO. He continues to pull back sanctions on Russia. He won't tell us what he talked about with Vladimir Putin and he won't tell us anything about his finances with the Russians. He acts guilty, Ari.

A (33:06)

Yeah. I mean, so is that not pretty freaking unbelievable to just. What, like if you. By the way, there's even Ari there who's. He's doing this thing that I've, I've called out a lot over the years, Robert. It's pretend journalism. Like he's acting as if he's giving him a tough interview, but he's actually not at all. And he's kind of carrying his water there because they get into this whole asset the like conversation. But if you hear in the clips that they just played, what Swalwell said point blank was that Donald Trump was an agent. And just to be clear, there's a big difference between calling someone a CIA asset and a CIA agent. There's a big difference between calling someone a Russian asset and a Russian agent. Like, agent implies that you are straight up working for them, carrying out operations. It's not just like, oh, you're something that they use or you're something that, you know what I mean, you were doing your own thing and they liked that you were doing this. So you guys coordinated in some way. Calling a Russian agent the sitting President of the United States of America. And then after there's this huge multi million dollar investigation, doesn't back you up at all, you go, well, I challenge him to prove to me that he's not. Like, what the hell does that mean? And then of course, Rob, at the end there, they kind of give it away now, don't they? They kind of give it away. Well, what really is the proof now? Of course, he lists off a bunch of things, none of which Donald Trump actually did. He states them as if he did that. He pulled us out of Syria. No, he didn't. He's, you know, NATO no longer has power. Not true. NATO's only gotten more powerful under Donald Trump. It's gotten bigger, it's expanded, it's gotten more powerful. But isn't there kind of an admission there that it's like, yeah, that's really what it's all about, isn't it? Like, Donald Trump campaigned on pulling us out of Syria. He campaigned on diminishing NATO in 2016. This is. But if you were to enact those policies, that would be proof that you're a Russian agent. You know, like it's a, it's, it's really something that you're like, that's the democratic process that everybody in D.C. is screaming about that a candidate ran on this, the people supported him, he was duly elected, but he's not allowed to implement those policies. And it's something. All right, guys, let's take a second and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Quince. I love this company. We're talking high quality fabrics, classic fits and lightweight layers for the summer at prices that won't break the bank. I've gotten, they've sent me a couple of their things that are really nice. Got this beautiful cashmere hoodie, another really nice sweater. They've got really good quality stuff at very reasonable prices which as you know, are very rare these days. Cashmere and cotton sweaters from just $50. Airy pants and flow knit polos that look and feel amazing. Your wardrobe just got a whole lot better. Keep it classic and cool with long lasting staples from quince. Go to quince.compotp for free shipping on your orders and 365 day returns. That's quince.compotp q u I n c e.com pot for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.compotp all right, let's get back into the show.

B (36:33)

Well, I mean we did, what was it, two and a half years of coverage of the shift. God bless you now, Covid.

A (36:39)

Thank you. I caught it.

B (36:40)

Yeah, exactly. Through, through zoom. We did three years of debunking the Russia gate stuff while it was happening. And it exact, it's so amazing. Amazing the way that Russiagate went right into Covid that then went into. No, Biden doesn't have dementia. And it's a 12 year track record or. Yeah, about, or 8 year track record of just completely lying to you on a daily basis on these big stories ongoing. But that talking point of the last one, which was, you know, because it used to be if you were trying to just be pragmatic and be like, listen, let's not have this war. Oh, so you're a Putin apologist. Oh, you must love Putin. It's like anytime that you just have a different strategic insight of what benefits the US that might not harm somebody else, then instantly. Oh, because you really only like what? You really only like that guy's agenda. And it's like, no, I actually don't care about Russia. I don't care about what Putin's doing. I think that this. It costs us money for no reason. I think it's a foolish strategy. You're putting more risk on the table. But it's just. It's such a funny thing that if just you agree with the other side, you could say that. Like, if you didn't think our government should get rid of TikTok. Oh, so you're a Chinese Socialist Party advocate. You like the Chinese Communist Party running businesses in the United States of America? It's like, no, I don't like our government policing what technology you are or aren't allowed to use. And I think they work with all the other social media platforms. So, you know, whatever they're doing with Big Data, maybe we need more transparency across the board. Because I don't think the other ones are innocent. I just think they're doing it in our government's interest. But it's amazing just the second, like, you. You know what I mean? You do anything that might benefit someone else, even if it's because you think it is for your interest, then it's just that classic talking point. Well, you're a Putin apologist.

A (38:29)

Yeah.

B (38:29)

For Russia.

A (38:31)

Yeah. It's unbelievable. It's so dumb. And it's. But again, that is. It's a. It's a tactic that's been used quite a bit. I don't think it's working very well, at least fortunately. But, yeah, no, you're absolutely right. That is what you hear. It's constantly over the way. And it's funny. It's funny, too, when it changes. Like, I'm like, wait, what am I? Am I a defender of the mullahs in Iran or Hamas or Putin or, you know, like, which one? Make up your mind. Okay. None of. Yeah. It's like, oh, this is all ridiculous. Like, who even. It's always. What was so crazy to me too, is that was like.

B (39:08)

It's like, you're like, I don't want to bomb Iran. And you're like, oh, so you love the Iranian regime? You want the Iranian regime to be stronger and to continue to overrule their suit. No, I don't care that none of that has anything to do with what I'm talking about, which is. I don't think we should be at war with them.

A (39:23)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, well, like, so it's funny because when, like, they never even apply this logic, when they just haven't put a war on the table, like, when they're not trying to sell one. So, like in, and in the same way, like, no one right now is advocating that we bomb North Korea, right? But if they started, they started rolling out a campaign for it, there would be some percentage of people who then go, well, yeah, of course. What do you fucking support North Korea by not wanting to bomb them? You know what I mean? Like, they would just jump into it. But right now there's no push to do that. And so they're just not even thinking about it. But you're like, right now, you, Mr. Warhawk guy who's supporting our current status quo policy of not bombing North Korea, does that make you a Kim Jong Un asset because you support the status quo of not launching a war? It's all just like, so stupid. Like, or how about you could just feel that way for different reasons. There just, there could be other reasons than you care about that regime. But I always said, I mean, I've made this point many times, but I always thought it was kind of funny because, like, I've read a lot about, you know, the Cold War and, which is in itself, you know, a horrible, you know, terribly misguided policy that did a lot of damage to the United States of America. But it, you know, and I'm sure, you know, for people listening, or for you, Rob, like, most people probably know like a little bit about like, you know, Joseph McCarthy or the, which gets lumped together, which is not the case as separate things. But there was the, the house Committee on UnAmerican Activities where famously, like, Americans were accused of being communists. This is what's known as, you know, McCarthyism or the Red Scare or any of this stuff where, like, people were being accused left and right of being Communist. Now the truth is that the, I mean, it's a long chapter in American history. I won't go too deep into it. But McCarthy was not completely wrong. I mean, there were Communists who had infiltrated the State Department and other kind of like, sensitive areas in America. Most people still look back at that as like, oh, this was like a fucked up thing to do where you just start accusing people of, of being disloyal and then they could be blackballed or whatever. But I always said, you know, at least whatever side of that debate you're on, at least back then there were Communists. Like, I mean, there were people who like, identified as Communist. There was a Communist Party. There were people who were sympathetic to the Communist Party. There were like, that was a belief system that people had. The thing that's so funny about being like, you know, you're. You're a Putin stooge is you're just like, who. Who does that apply to? Who in the United States of America is actually like, that is. I am sworn loyal to Vladimir Putin. I just think the Russian model is the model that we need to follow or something like that. It's like, what is he a corrupt Republican? Essentially? Like, all right, like, what is that? Oh, what is that? This is the worst thing you could say about Vladimir Putin is that he launched the war in Ukraine. Like, oh, he started a war. Okay. That seems to make him more. That makes him more similar to my leaders who I spend my whole life hating. Like, what about that would I be, you know, admiring? Yeah. Anyway, it's all. It's all pretty weird. So I did think, getting back to. Let's talk a little bit about the Putin meeting, then we could talk a little bit about Zelensky today, because that's going on right now. I did think. One of the things that I thought was interesting is that Vladimir Putin went out of his way to say that if Trump was president, the war wouldn't have happened, which was nothing more than sucking up to Donald Trump. I mean, that was like. It was a clear way to say. I just validated that, you know, the thing he said was right. And he can kind of, in a way, Right. Like, Vladimir Putin can say that with more credibility than any other person on the planet. Right? Because, like, how can you even really argue, you know, at least on the surface, Vladimir Putin's the guy who launched the war, and he's saying it wouldn't happen. Well, then that just backs up what Donald Trump said. I think that Vladimir Putin's smart enough to know that that's how you win favor with Donald Trump is to say, I'll make you look very good, Mr. President. But so, you know, it did just seem like, oh, he's trying to win over favor with President Trump here. That being said, it was. The tone from both of them was certainly very respectful and complimentary, and not at all what it seemed was being signaled by Donald Trump just like a week and a half earlier where he was given Donald Trump giving Vladimir Putin timelines and threatening him with how bad things would be if he didn't follow them. So there was none of that at their. At their summit. It was a much more cordial tone. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is my patriot Supply this summer isn't just hot, it is historic. There's been flash flood warnings at 40 year highs and it's not slowing down. There's been towns underwater and roads that have been washed out. And in every crisis zone the same scene, there's crowds standing in line, waiting, waiting for bottled water, waiting for food, waiting for someone to show up and save them. If there's one thing I know, you don't want to be in a position where you're relying on someone else to save you if you don't have to be. That's why I always protect my family with my Patriot supply. And right now my Patriot supply is giving away four weeks of emergency food. Just go to my patriotsupply.com problem to find out how you can claim your free 4 week food supply and join millions of Americans who are preparing with my Patriot supply, including me. Claim your free four week kit today at my patriotsupply.com problem. That's my patriotsupply.com Problem. All right, let's get back into the show. I don't know any other thoughts on.

B (45:25)

Even just before the summit, you know, at least there were headlines saying that Donald Trump was saying there's going to be severe consequences, which is like, you know, it's like double secret probation from Animal House. What severe consequences do you have left? And, you know, I mean, the back and forth with Trump where he said 30 day deadline and then he's like, well, we can't do a 30 day deadline. Let's have a 14 day deadline. There's no reason to wait or nine days. He was just like, we can't do 30. He seemed to walk back wanting to tariff any nation that's still buying the natural gas. Because I, I'm going to, I'm going to guess that that would probably create trade problems to tariff India at that level. But I don't know, I'd like, I'd have to dig into that. But he seemed to walk that one back. And then the other one that it's somewhat, it's somewhat interesting is that walking away and going, we're not going to require a ceasefire while we're engaging in the peace process, I would think is actually better in Putin's interest because they're currently winning the war. And so I think that that's, if anything, that almost sounds to me like quite a concession because I seem to remember from earlier talks, demand for ceasefires. And part of what Trump, one of Trump's gripes with Putin was he said he would get on phone calls with Putin, and it would sound very good. And then Putin would do massive bombing campaigns. And Trump kind of saw that as a slap in the face and that Putin was not serious about peace or that they were just dragging it out and that they were not willing to kind of. That was almost the proof to Trump that Putin wasn't willing to engage in the peace process, was ongoing attacks after he had friendly phone calls with him. So that's what I'm saying. It's all kind of circular and just comes down to, I think Donald Trump just needs to go, we're done with this, and then for Europe to try and pick up the bill for a little while until they finally realize, all right, this is a mistake and we can't continue to do it. I think until it gets there. It just, it feels very circular to me. It's. I don't understand why Zelensky thinks he can stay in it. I don't know why the European nations think that they're going to repress Donald Trump. But literally a week before he finally decided to sit down with Putin, it looked like he was trying to escalate.

A (47:29)

Yep. No, it certainly did. And there's. And to your point, look, no deal has been reached here, and it is not even, you know, it's quite likely that Donald Trump is back in D.C. now. Now he's talking to Zelinsky and the Europeans. Now there's going to be a million war hawks in his ear, and I would not be surprised at all if he pivots back to that type of posture.

B (47:56)

How it's also possible just walks back away from this.

A (48:00)

Yeah, right. I mean, however, I will say, I think that the. I think there's a likelihood that this war is essentially, is going to end sooner rather than later. I think that in a way, I think, you know, we'll see how this all goes. But it's kind of what a lot of us have been saying all along is that the deal is going to end on Vladimir Putin's terms here. And I don't really, I don't think there's a way to insist that it doesn't. And I think that the Russian terms have been pretty clear from the very beginning of this. They have now, after this time, like they're, they are taking the Donbass region, they're keeping Crimea. That much is a given. Now, it's somewhat up in the air as to whether that's all they're going to keep. In addition to that, I think they've been pretty clear that they're insisting on like a corridor to Crimea through some of those southern provinces that they hold right now, but that they may be willing to give back. And then the, the other issue here, right, is that I think it's. What is it? I think like somewhere around a third of Donetsk is still controlled by Ukraine, and Russia has the rest of it and they have all of Luhansk and they want that part. And so this is what Donald Trump was, you know, indicating with the land swap deal. Like, oh, you'll get some territory back in the south and you'll give this territory up in the east and, you know, kind of selling it. Like, see, you each get a little bit of what you want, but really what it is is Vladimir Putin taking what he wants and leaving them the rest. But the, so that, that in itself, I'm not saying there's nothing tricky to working out the details of that. And I think that the more that Vladimir Putin, the way he sees it is that which I think is true, is that the more he dominates on the battlefield, the stronger a negotiating position he's coming to. You know, like, if, if he had all of the Donbass region, he wouldn't even need to be talking about that. He wouldn't even need Ukraine. So what's the incentive there to either try to get it through negotiations or just win it on the battlefield. But, so that's kind of the split. That's how it's going to end up going down. Many of us have been saying this the entire time. I mean, the deal, if you remember the, the deal that was agreed to in principle, I mean, it was, you know, it was never signed. It was, you know, in, in pencil, not in pen. But the deal that famously Boris Johnson went over and broke up very early into the war in 2022 was that the, the bullet points of it were that Russia keeps Crimea, it's formally recognized their annexation of Crimea. The Donbass region would be like neutral essentially, or would at least. I forget the exact language of the deal, but it was something like independence for the Donbass region or some, something, some, some more intensified, intensified version of the mink accords, like minx accords, that there would be, you know, like strong federalism is some degree of independence for the Donbass region and that Ukraine would agree to never enter NATO. That would be put. It's right. So now the deal has just moved in Putin's favor a little bit more. In fact, he's going to keep the Donbass region for his own. Screw independence. A corridor to Crimea, Crimea and the Donbass officially recognized as Russian territory and a promise to not join NATO. Like it's still going to be the same bullet points, just with hundreds of thousands of people more dead and Ukraine getting a little bit less. Like, this is how it's going to end. Whether it ends tomorrow or it ends a year from now, this is how the war is going to end. Something along these lines. And where the, it seems, at least at this point, that there has the shift that's happened slowly because there's been shifts all around, but the shift that's happened from say like the war party and by the war party, I mean the establishment of the Democrats and the Republicans and the intelligence agencies and military industrial complex, NATO and the Europeans, they do seem to have all walked off of the ledge of we're going to recover all territory, we can't give any territory to Vladimir Putin. What you hear them talking about more and more now, and this is particularly mouthed by Zelensky, is the security assurances. And when they're talking about security assurances, there's an, there's a built in concession there, which is that like, okay, we know we're not getting Crimea, but what's, you know, they want security implied there is for what's left of Ukraine. So they've, we're already kind of at that point where we're accepting that like that's the way the war is going to end. But the security guarantees, and this is I think where Trump has really fucked everything up since he came in. This is a big part of the reason of why he failed on his promise to end the war on day one or whatever, is that the security guarantees are not, they're almost put out there by Zelinsky. Like it's a minor little detail. Like, well, in addition to this, we sure would like, you know, like, it's almost like put out there where like, like you're buying a new car and you're like, hey, could you throw the Sirius XM in for free? Or so you know what I mean? Like, it's like a little detail, but it's not a little detail. That's what the entire war is over. That's like the central issue of the whole goddamn thing. Because when you have a security guarantee, what does that mean? It means you're not neutral. Like, that's really the essence of it, right? You don't have a security guarantee for your enemies. You don't have a security, a security guarantee for neutral countries. You only give war guarantees to allies. That means you're on one side of this, and that's been Vladimir Putin's entire point the whole time, is that you can't make Ukraine one of your sock puppets. You can't make Ukraine an extension of the United States of America, which is essentially what the whole thing has been an effort to do. Right? And that's where. And so I do think that. That there is the poison pill in this whole thing and what exactly it means. Like, now, I'm not saying that I can conceive of a possibility where there's some way to end this war, where there's some level of security guarantee given, like, by the Europeans or something like that, but there's not going to be an American war guarantee that'll be enough for Putin to keep the war on. Is that. Because if that's the case, then why the hell leave? Why don't I just take more territory? You know what I'm saying? So that's. That's going to be the thing. That's going to be the real hurdle here.

B (54:54)

I don't think anyone could pull this off. But to me, the security guarantee should basically be, war's over and Putin's agreeing, hey, they just throw Biden under the bus and shove it up your Europe's ass. Put that on a bumper sticker. It's sellable. All right? You sell out Biden by just saying war never needed to happen, and this was Biden's mess. I would like to get along with the United States of America, and I have no interest in taking any more territory. And you got to make it. Putin's got to make it very clear, not looking for anything more but this. We need for what we've currently conquered, pulling Israel, what we currently conquered, we need for security purposes. And then what I think you need is essentially, if Putin, you know, gets all that and decides to take aggressive action, again, no security guarantees, but I think you probably need a commitment from China and India and all the nations of the world for full sanctions and not to be buying natural gas. And then I think. I actually think that that's your security guarantee.

A (55:50)

All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Kalshi. I'm really enjoying visiting Kalshi. I just downloaded their app. I like using it to check in on what's going on, where the. Where the real prediction markets are. And I've been seeing them pop up more and more on social media. You may have as well, if you don't know CALI is America's first fully regulated prediction market. CFTC approved in all 50 states. So that means you can bet on just about anything. You can bet on whether the Democrats are going to take back the House of Representatives. You can bet on whether Donald Trump will run through for a third term. You can bet on who the Democratic nominee is going to be. But you can also watch these markets and see where other people are betting, which I find very interesting. Go sign up today@cal.com Dave. That's K A L S H I.com Dave. You can sign up and trade right away. Kalshi where your gut meets real money. All right, let's get back into the show. Yeah, that might be the best way to do it here. Let's play because there was a clip of, of Zelinsky here today. I will say, Rob, I we couldn't get through this full hour without mentioning he wore the T shirt again.

B (57:05)

Oh, really?

A (57:05)

Now this isn't, this isn't his meeting with, this isn't the meeting with Donald Trump yet. So I like it's possible someone's holding the blazer for him somewhere. But here is from today in the meeting with some leaders in D.C. before, like ahead of his meeting with Donald Trump. I don't know if he's going to change, but it's pretty wild. But anyway, here's Zelensky. How are you, sir?

E (57:28)

Thank you so much.

A (57:33)

Okay. Thank you so much. Hi.

E (57:35)

Good to see you.

A (57:39)

How about you.

B (57:52)

Mr. President, thank you very much for your time.

A (57:54)

I know your time is busy. What I wanted to. Yeah.

E (57:58)

Would do just briefly was to.

B (58:02)

I've.

A (58:02)

Got a meeting with the president, vice president and national security advisor, Secretary of State this morning.

E (58:11)

I think. Thank you so much. So first of all, we are thankful to president for this invitation and the four months of what we will have path. It's important signals about security guarantees. And that's why it's important that we are together with the United States and Europe. And the president accepted the meeting, common meeting also after our bilateral common meeting with Europeans. And so I'm so grateful that such big countries as UK, Finland and you know, and the secretary route that they will come and I think this will be important meeting and we will speak about the architecture. I think so we will have time to speak about architecture of security guarantees. And this is, this is what really I think the most important.

A (59:04)

Good.

E (59:04)

Yes, I hope so.

A (59:07)

We will speak.

B (59:08)

Yeah.

E (59:08)

We will begin, of course, bilaterally. But I think mostly we can speak about it when we will be together sitting.

A (59:20)

All right, so really, look, the point of that was just to show you that he's not wearing a suit.

B (59:27)

That he's wearing the last time, I think. Didn't he have, like, that kind of military sweater thing? Now he's just full New York City comedian.

A (59:35)

It seems like a shittier black T shirt than I'm used to seeing him in. But really, that look, I mean, this is. And I don't know, Rob, I mean, maybe. Maybe this is just me, but it does it. Like, it makes my blood boil. But I don't know, I just find. Look, I mean, he's talking about security guarantees over and over again. I mean, this is his big, thick. From his position of no negotiating leverage whatsoever, there is nothing that he offer. Like, Vladimir Putin obviously has some negotiating leverage, right? Because he's conducting a war that we sure would like him to stop, you know, and we have some negotiating leverage over Vladimir Putin because, like, we were the ones who were threatening to bring Ukraine into NATO and we could. And he wants us to stop, and we were the ones who were sending weapons in, and he'd like us to stop. So, like, there's some negotiation there. Zelensky is offering us nothing. Like, just absolutely nothing, but yet he's sitting here demanding security guarantees. And, like, what is that? I. I don't. Like, what does that mean? Like, a security guarantee? It's like, if you think about it in a way, right, nobody is God, so nobody can give you a guarantee. Like, a real guarantee, right? Like, that doesn't actually mean anything. If I were to say to you, rob, like, I guarantee your security, then what you would take that to mean is, like, to the best of my ability, I will try to protect you, or something like that. You know what I mean? But, like, that's all I could do, is try to fight the guy who's fighting you, and if he's tougher than me, I can't. Then my guarantee is meaningless. But, like, there is something where, like, I would. I think, like, you know, like, if someone tried to hurt my wife or my kids, I would do everything within my power to protect them. But then, just like some random other lady in my town goes, I also demand a security guarantee. You're like, wait, what? In a position to demand that I get into a fight over you. Like, that's my choice, not yours. And so I do just find this to be appalling. I also think, you know, this is. And this is where Donald Trump really messed up with that whole mineral deal. And all that talk is that Donald Trump basically has. This is, it is crazy that we're this far into Donald Trump's presidency. Like, we're almost at the end of August. He's been president since January, and he still has not like, extinguished this idea that we're going to give Ukraine a security guarantee, that we're not only going to say, hey, we're going to help you negotiate an end to this war after helping you fight this war for, you know, three years, but we're going to say, hey, if you ever get in a war in the future, we're on the hook for it. If anyone's, if there's ever an act of aggression against you in the future, that's our job to protect you. Where do you get off demanding something like that? And, like, you know, the real, look, the real dynamic that's changed here. And I'll tell you, I think the main reason why the hawks aren't talking about taking back Crimea and all of this stuff now, because they never thought they were going to do that. They just wanted to keep the war going as long as possible. That's always been the goal, is just to hurt Russia as much as possible. And if you got to sacrifice Ukraine in order to do that, then sure, let's do it. But the real reason why all this talk is changing now is because the Ukrainian people are done. They don't want to. I just saw another poll today. It's like, right around 70%, 70% of the Ukrainian people want an immediate end to this thing, a negotiated settlement, meaning they're happy to give up some of their land to end this war. They don't want to do this anymore. They've seen what they were able to do with a blank check from the west, and they know they don't have that blank check anymore. Why the hell would they want to keep fighting this war? And they recognize that, like, hey, if you don't get this deal done with Vladimir Putin, and if Vladimir Putin decides that I can't work out a deal with these guys, then all of his incentives become to take as much territory as he can, because you're not working out a deal anyway. And so if you don't have a guarantee about what's going to happen with the other territory you don't take, you do have a guarantee if it's yours, you know, and that's essentially what Vladimir Putin's been saying this entire time. Not saying this is exactly right, but his argument has always been, we try. He, he, he basically said Ukraine can't be a part of the West. They don't have to be a part of Russia. This is what Vladimir Putin's been saying for over 20 years. Ukraine doesn't have to be a part of Russia, but they can't be a part of the West. They can be independent if they want to. If, like, that's, that's acceptable, we can accept neutrality. But if the choice is that there is no neutrality and neutrality means you're a puppet of the west, then I'll just take it and it will be like, if it's not going to be neutral, it will be mine. It's not. The options are neutral or mine, not yours. That's been Vladimir Putin's position this entire time. And so listen, what we can hope for here is that seeing as how the Ukrainian people want none of this anymore and seeing as how Zelensky is still not in a suit and tie and pissed off Donald Trump last time and looks like he might do it again, that maybe at least Vladimir Putin puffed up his ego, Zelensky is pissing him off. And at some point, Donald Trump wipes his hand, you know, washes his hands of this mess and goes, no, all right, we're not giving you a security guarantee. Give him the, give him the territory he's taken and that's it. I'm not, I'm not optimistic that we're there yet, but I am cautiously optimistic that that might be sooner than later. Final thoughts to you, Rob, and then we'll wrap up.

B (65:30)

If you want more porch, visit a local porch. And this this weekend. Where did I say I was? Peking, Indiana. St. Louis, outside of Cincinnati, and then outside of Cleveland, Ohio. Then Philadelphia, and then back at pub Cousin Myersville, Maryland. The original porch for Stand up. A little concert for my Shedcast friends. And the smoke out, bug out that's in the world connecting with.

A (65:54)

There you go. That's the key to per. The key to peace. A nice getting drunk at a porch with Rob and then yeah. Yep. See all you guys out in Austin at the Comedy Mothership this weekend. And then me and Rob will be on the road a bunch for the rest of the year. Comic Dave Smith for all those tickets. All right, catch you guys next time. Peace wherever you go, whatever they get.

C (66:30)

Into, from chill time to everyday adventures.

A (66:34)

Protect your dog from parasites with Cridelio Quattro. For full safety information, side effects and warnings, visit credelioquatrolabel.com consult your vet or call 1-888-545-5973.

C (66:47)

Ask your vet for Cordelia Quatro and visit quattrodog.com.