Part Of The Problem: "Seven Countries in Five Years" (Oct 7, 2025)

Host: Dave Smith
Podcast Network: GaS Digital Network
Episode Overview:
In this solo episode, Dave Smith responds in-depth to recent debates and criticisms about US foreign policy, specifically regarding the long-standing “seven countries in five years” plan allegedly discussed by US officials post-9/11. Drawing on recent media appearances and the ongoing Israel-Gaza conflict, Smith defends his prior arguments about the intersection of US, Israeli, and neoconservative interests in Middle Eastern regime change, while pushing back against detractors in the libertarian and broader political spheres.

Main Theme and Purpose

Dave Smith uses the third anniversary of the October 7, 2022, Israel-Hamas attacks as a backdrop to delve into how the narrative around US policy in the Middle East—especially the debated “seven countries in five years” doctrine—has evolved, why he stands by his interpretation, and how new events and critiques feed into a larger conversation about US foreign policy, Israel, and media narratives. He addresses direct criticisms from recent debates and social media clips, drawing connections between them and the broader issue of American and Israeli interests and public perception.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Israel-Gaza Conflict: Three Years On

• Background: Marks the third anniversary of the October 7 attack and the subsequent upheaval in Gaza.
• Key Insight: Smith highlights the unique and “indefensible” nature of US support for Israel, arguing this relationship is unprecedented and not in line with broader American interests.
  • “The relationship between the United States and Israel is truly unlike any other relationship between two states.” (19:10)
• Hostage & Ceasefire Updates: Discusses the latest peace plan negotiations, Hamas’s counter-offer, and Trump’s surprising positive remarks regarding a possible peace, juxtaposed with Israel’s continued military action.
  • “Hamas did not accept the deal, but they offered a counter… what Hamas countered with was not that bad, especially if your priority is the Israeli hostages.” (22:15)

2. Debate with Coleman Hughes and Public Reaction

• Smith’s Frustration: Addresses claims by pro-Israeli critics and “Zionist cheerleaders” that he was “eviscerated” in debates with Coleman Hughes, Douglas Murray, and others.
  • “Almost all of the Zionist cheerleaders… also said I got eviscerated by Douglas Murray… overwhelmingly people who watch it do not get that impression.” (07:37)
• PR Battle: Argues the tide has turned against the pro-Israel narrative, especially among younger, independent media consumers.

3. US-Israel Relationship and American Sovereignty

• Unconditional Support: Outlines the deep, often unconditional support the US offers Israel: monetary aid, military protection, intelligence, diplomatic cover at the UN.
  • “There simply is no other country that we do this for. It’s undeniable.” (19:05)
• Critical Point: Raises concerns about American sovereignty when US leaders’ demands (e.g., Trump calling to halt Gaza bombings) are ignored by Israel with no policy repercussions.
  • “You are simply not going to be able to convince people that is OK.” (29:28)
• Propaganda and Trust Deficit: Suggests the growing distrust in government and media post-9/11, Iraq, and other crises is fueling a shift in attitudes and openness to dissenting views on Israel.

4. “Seven Countries in Five Years” – The Wesley Clark Memo

• Context: Responds to social media clips and criticisms (notably from Coleman Hughes and a viral tweet by Nathan Livingstone) suggesting Smith exaggerates the memo’s importance or accuracy.
• Original Clark Interview: Smith plays and discusses at-length General Wesley Clark’s account of being told of a plan to topple seven Middle Eastern countries within five years.
  • Notable excerpt:

    “This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and finishing off Iran.” – Clark (37:52)

• Smith’s Defense:
  • Insists the issue is not whether Clark literally read the classified memo, but rather that US and/or Israeli action ultimately targeted all seven countries (with possible exception of Sudan).
  • “A four-star general said the decision had been made… and yes, we went on to do that or attempt to do that in just about all of the countries listed.” (44:45)
  • Lists regime change attempts or interventions in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Sudan, and persistent threats against Iran.
• Response to Pedantry:
  • Dismisses critics who fixate on discrepancies in country order, whether regime change was fully achieved, or if timeline was inaccurate.
  • “If you want to get very pedantic or nitpicky… yeah, that was a bad line. But, you know, in a three and a half hour conversation, you’re gonna have one thing… [but] this just seems to be so obvious on its face to me.” (34:07)
• Adds Additional Evidence:
  • Cites further first-hand reports (ex-CIA, John Kiriakou) to bolster his point that US officials planned a rapid series of regime changes, homegrown or not.

5. Influence of the Israel Lobby and Neoconservatives

• Clean Break Memo Reference: Smith points to the “Clean Break” memo as a documented example of neoconservatives (many with strong personal, political, or religious affiliations to Israel) advocating regional destabilization strategies.
  • “Who were the neoconservatives who were in power? Oh yeah, it’s the same people who wrote the clean break memo. It is totally consistent...” (54:01)
• Analogy for Influence:
  • Offers a thought experiment swapping Israeli influence for hypothetical French influence to illustrate how absurd it would be to insist such connections were irrelevant or non-influential.
  • “Would you sit there… and say if you even bring up French influence then you’re an anti-Frankite, then you’re a wild conspiracy theorist? Is that even kind of reasonable?” (01:09:00)

6. Challenging Critics and Further Resources

• Invitation to Discourse:
  • Welcomes continuing debate, urging critics and listeners to read a set of key articles recommended by Scott Horton (John Mearsheimer’s “Israel Lobby” book, etc.).
  • “Anyone get through all that and then tell me you have an actual argument for how this wasn’t all up and down…” (01:04:57)
• Final Statement:
  • Reiterates that there are many drivers of US foreign policy, but Israeli-linked lobbying and interests played a “huge part” in the Iraq war and related interventions.
  • “If the claim you’re making is that Israel was not a huge player in the war in Iraq, let’s have that fight forever.” (01:14:45)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trump, the Ceasefire, and US-Israel Dynamics:

  “Donald Trump… came out on Friday and he said, great, Hamas is ready for peace. And then he went a step further and he said, Israel must stop the bombing of Gaza immediately… Israel continued to attack Gaza.” (26:20)

• On the Uniqueness of US-Israel Ties:

  “It is crazy that you would say our duly elected commander in chief… props up this other country… yet no matter what the will of our elected government is, they will continue to support them no matter what they do, even if they do things that are directly against U.S. interests, that is just indefensible.” (29:05)

• On the General Attitude Towards Government Narratives:

  “This show might as well be titled ‘How the Government and the Media are Lying to you about the Current Crisis.’ And our track record is unblemished.” (30:15)

• On the Clark Memo Critique:

  “They’re trying to be… that during, like, honestly guys, I just tell me what you think of this. That, yes, Wesley Clark… it’s not exactly clear what he saw or didn’t see on the memo. But that’s not really the point now, is it?” (48:50)

• On the Clean Break and Neocon Influence:

  “It is totally consistent not just with what Wesley Clark is saying, [but] what they wrote in their own words.” (54:20)

• Challenging Listeners:

  “Just start with the first couple articles. Just start reading them because it is a fascinating bit of history...” (01:05:15)

Key Timestamps

• 00:00–03:45: Show intro, comedy tour updates, and episode premise
• 06:30–13:30: The Coleman Hughes podcast and reactions from the pro-Israel camp
• 17:50–22:35: Three years since Oct 7 attack and current events in Israel/Gaza
• 23:00–29:28: The US-Israel “special relationship”—aid, sovereignty, and policy contradictions
• 31:00–41:00: Response to social media clips criticizing Smith’s take on the “seven countries” memo; extended discussion of Wesley Clark’s story (37:52 for the direct Clark quote)
• 44:45–51:00: Dave’s own defense: listing the seven countries, reviewing US/Israeli action/intervention in each
• 53:33–58:00: The Clean Break memo, neoconservatives, and the logic behind regime-change planning
• 1:04:10–1:09:00: Smith’s analogy for foreign influence and the challenge to critics
• 1:13:40–end: Final summary and reiteration of Smith’s invitation for open debate and further reading

Structure/Flow & Tone

Smith maintains his direct, confrontational, and often sardonic tone throughout, mixing detailed factual arguments with rhetorical flourishes and a sense of ongoing exasperation toward both media and government critics. The episode combines responsive rebuttal with historical reference, sustaining engagement both for regular listeners and those new to the subject. Ads are omitted in this summary, per instruction.

Summary Takeaways

• Smith affirms his view that there is a demonstrable, well-documented connection between US neoconservatives, Israeli interests, and the US’s regime-change wars.
• He embraces further debate, openly challenges critics to engage with primary sources, and positions himself as grounded in documented history rather than conspiratorial thinking.
• The episode acts as a resource both for libertarians/hawks skeptical of the “Israel Lobby” thesis and for listeners seeking to understand the modern debate over US foreign policy in the Middle East.

For those interested, Smith recommends reading John Mearsheimer’s "The Israel Lobby" (book) and a series of articles curated by Scott Horton for further study.