A (3:55)

Yeah, yeah, that's for sure. And. Yeah, yeah, man, it's. It's really. I don't understand how anyone can argue with that. I have also, you know, I got it, like I kind of talked about on the last episode, like my, my most basic of Tests for Peace. People, like just being a human being about this, which shockingly, a lot of people seem to be failing, although many are passing. But I will say I have been, I guess, and, and when I say this, I will make like, like a carve out here, like a caveat for people who were close friends with Charlie Kirk, because I don't, you know, it's, it's very hard to blame anybody for their, the way they're acting when they're truly grieving. You know what I mean? Like, when you're in grief, like, people process that in a different way. And as I said, you know, I think I've been quite open about this. Like, I'm rattled by this and because I knew Charlie Kirk and I was just hanging out with him, like, whatever, a couple months ago or whatever that was. And, you know, we, we didn't do exactly the same thing. We do kind of a similar thing. And it was. Anyway, it's just like very close to home. And it's very weird to this, but I wasn't like, a close personal friend of Charlie Kirk. This isn't like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it'd be a different thing if, like, you died, Rob, or something. You know, as someone who's, like, very close to me and then. But they're like people who were close friends of Charlie Kirk's, obviously, like, they are grieving and going through, like, a whole deeper personal things. I'm not judging any. Anyone for how they act in that situation, but broadly speaking, in the kind of like the. And I mean this in the broadest possible sense of the term, like, in the media class. And by that, I. I mean people in, you know, on cable news or podcasters or, you know, whatever, like, influencers. Oh, do we lose Rob? No. Well, there you go. Rob was furious that I. I included him in the same group as the corporate media. And that's what I get. Rob just quit the show right here. All right. He just texted. He's having some. Some computer problems, so hopefully he'll. He'll get back on soon. But I guess I, you know, I. For that entire. As I was saying, like, the broad, like, influencers, podcasters, political commentators, all these things, right? Like, almost everyone, I would say, has essentially the same thought in their head as Rob, even just kind of touched on there where he's like, hey, Is this a 911 type thing? Is this. Is this like, we had Columbine and then school shootings became a thing? Because that's just in the ether now, and that's a possible thing that could happen. And almost everybody has had that thought at some point. And so I just, I guess in a way you would just expect that it would be, like, 100% unanimous amongst that entire class of people that we don't want to see that happen. And so we are here to, like, try to calm things down. We're here to try to, like, okay, let's every. Let's try our best to de. Escalate the situation. And there is, I think, something particularly disgusting about the people in that. In that class who are, like, egging this on or trying to ramp up tensions right now, even getting into, like, like, you know, whether it's, like, drumming up people being furious about the left wingers who are reacting by celebrating this thing, or it's the left wingers who are going out of their way to, like, insult Charlie Kirk and, and stuff like that. And it's just like, I don't know, like, what are you guys doing? It's like, we all know the danger here is that this thing could ramp up and it could lead to more violence. And, and you. Because. Because like 100% of the people in that class that I'm talking about, like podcasters, influencers, journalists, you know, 100 of those people aren't ready for that, do not want to see, do not want to be any part of that. And yet they're still like, ramping up tensions in this moment and I guess with the expectations that they won't be the ones who suffer the consequences for it. But I do just find that to be like, appalling. I don't know, just even, like, I've just seen so many people and on all different sides of this trying to politicize this issue, trying to use it for their advantage in some way or, or generate kind of clicks based on, you know, like, flaming the fanning the flames of this thing, which just seems to me to be like, just so wrong and so profoundly reckless. Like, what the hell are you guys doing? All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is the Wellness Company. We've all heard the studies. 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Again, that's TWC Health SL problem. Promo code problem. Get 10% off and free shipping. Level up your performance today. All right, let's get back into the show. Thoughts on Tim Dillon's interview with Gray's own editor in chief about Israeli involvement. Well, you know, I was Gonna. I probably. I was gonna talk about this a little bit today. Max Blumenthal, of course, is who you're. You're talking about. Will. I. I promise you, we will answer that question in a sec. Let's just get Rob back in. How's it going, buddy?

B (10:51)

Sorry about that. My computer decided to do an update.

A (10:56)

Oh.

B (10:56)

And shut down right when we started. My apologies.

A (11:00)

That's a. That was a bad time for your computer to decide to do that.

B (11:03)

Yeah, okay.

A (11:04)

No. No problem. I just went off on. I basically just. My. My point ended with me just saying that it's. It's crazy that everyone in the media podcast class isn't all trying to, like, tone down the, like, tempers and instead are, like, fanning the flames and how. I just think that's crazy and. And wrong.

B (11:21)

But, yeah, I mean, it's just on that note, there seems to be this big war online of trying to pin this to a side, and it's like, let's just wait a couple days. We don't have to hop right on. Hey, it's the entire transgender community's fault or it's the. Entirely the left fault. No, this guy was a groper. It's like, you're turning this into a weird team sports of which group you can blame, and it's probably not about that.

A (11:47)

Yeah, it's. You know, I said on the last episode, I. I got into this briefly, and then I kind of. If there was at one. One point, I was like. I was like, I don't even want to get into the politics of this, but I was just saying. And I was pushing back specifically on Ian Carroll and saying, like, we do. He's way out over his skis here. Like, we just do not have any evidence at all of, like, Israeli involvement in this. And then what I said there was. I was like, I don't want to get into the politics of it. Maybe I'll get into the politics of it more now that I've had a few days to deal with all this stuff. But just to be clear, the. The people who have been pushing both of those examples that you mentioned, which is like, there is a group of people trying to pin this on the Gripers, and then there was a group of people trying to pin this on Israel. And I mean, just objectively speaking, both of those sides has absolutely zero evidence. And this isn't like, you know, like, it's not even one of these things where, like, if you were trying to build a case that Epstein was Mossad or something like that like, you could argue, like, just saying, we know Epstein is Mossad. Oh, what just happened to you there?

B (12:59)

You know, the amount of fancy equipment I have plugged in here in my attempt to be professional.

A (13:04)

I know.

B (13:05)

Just watch everything break and shut down.

A (13:07)

For people behind the scenes. Rob really does try. No, but, like, I mean, if you were making the case that Epstein was Mossad, or you were making the case that the CIA killed Kennedy or that Mossad killed Kennedy, or that, you know, like, all these conspiracies, whether any of them are true or not, there's at least, like, building blocks there. You know what I mean? There's at least, like, here is our theory of how this all work together. No one has anything, and they're jumping to conclusions, like, and stating them with certainty. And it's just. This is wild to me, man. Like, I just think. I also think there's. There's, like, there's something profoundly morally wrong about doing that, you know, about, you know, like, in the same sense. And I don't know if I agree with this completely. I think, like, almost like Jordan Peterson would argue that it's always immoral to lie. Like, every lie is an immoral act. And I think he would take that down to, like, even, like, white lies or something like that. Now, I don't ex. I don't exactly agree with that. Like, I don't think if. If your girlfriend asks you if this dress makes her look fat and you kind of think it does, and you say, no, I don't think there's like, an immoral act there. I don't. Now I tell. I tell my three and a half year old all types of lies all the time. He thinks the TV goes to sleep sometimes. But, you know, I mean, I don't know. I'm okay with him living under that delusion for another six months or so, but anyway. But there is something, you know, there. There is something truly wrong about lying. And there's something like big lies, and there's something really wrong about, like, when people are looking to you for the truth, just lying to them. And then, like, in the same way that, like, you know, we're all kind of grateful to, like, say, like, some great thinker who you read who, like, made you understand the world better. And you were like, oh, thank you. You showed me the truth. Well, as much as that's a good thing, it's the same equal and opposite evil thing to when someone's looking to you for, like, okay, I don't trust the corporate media anymore. I figured out that they are lying to me. Now I'm listening to this guy on the Internet who's breaking down like the Epstein case or something like that. And now he's going to come out and just tell me, you know, like you're just going to say to people just because what I mean, anybody who was trying to pin this on the Gripers and same with anyone pinning this on Israel. It's both just like that's just what you want the conclusion to be. It's really that simple. Like this is what lines up with your pre existing views. And it would, it would give you a nice feeling of confirmation bias for you to be able to blame this group of people for this. But you simply have no case, no case whatsoever. And they, you know, I don't know, it's just I, I do find it kind of wild. Now to my point about getting into the politics of all of it. And then I promise we will get to the. What the one listener question part was that might be edited out of the podcast. But when Rob had some, some tech problems, I took a couple questions or I took one question from. And a couple comments from the, the live chat, which you can be a part of if you sign up@partoftheproblem.com and you know, I will, I will get to that. He was asking about the Max Blumenthal piece and his interview with, with Tim Dillon, but into the politics that I was saying. Yeah, so what happens is now. And I just find this so disgusting because also Rob, this was. What did I do that podcast, it was within 48 hours of Charlie Kirk being killed. Right. So this is still like at the very, very beginning of the thing. And immediately of course, like all of Zionist Hasbro Twitter jumps on the fact that I gave pushback to Ian Carroll and then, you know, is spinning it in their own goddamn way to go. You know, it's even Dave Smith, you know, when you're Jew hating conspiracy even loses Dave Smith. I mean that's proof that you're way too off there. And then the mix of like, you know, people going, well, this is this, this is what you created, Dave. Oh, you were with them this whole way and now you're, you know, and so like they are politicizing it in the dumbest way possible or it's like, you know, one of the guys who just, I, he's like a reply guy who tweets at me every single day of his life. But he was like, he goes, I gotta give Dave a lot of credit for this. Because this did take courage, and I've come at him pretty hard, but he really, like. You're like, what look like, Rob? What. What percentage of people who actually listen to the show? Because this is the weird thing in my world, right, where there's like. What do they call it? Concentric circles? Is that the term I'm looking for? Right, where the circles get bigger and bigger and bigger. But. So there's like. There's, like, the people who listen to this show, right? And then, like, a couple hundred thousand people who listen to this show or whatever. And then there's, like. There's, like, a much bigger circle of people who, like, have seen me on other shows and maybe kind of like me or maybe hate my guts but don't actually listen to the show. You know what I mean? So then there's like, the people who, like, just saw me, like, on Rogan a couple times and don't know anything else, but. So I was just saying, like, for us, isn't it amusing that the people in that circle outside who hate my guts really thought that, like, there are. The point I'm making here, Rob, is that 0% of the audience of this show would even be kind of surprised that I didn't just immediately jump on a kooky theory with no evidence to back it up. Like, when have I ever done that? Roseanne Barr, who I love and will always love forever. Goddamn legend. Not the biggest fan of me at the moment, but she tweeted something about it, about the clip, like, maybe there is some hope for Dave or something like that. And you're like. Like Roseanne. Name. Name one time that I've just jumped on a kooky conspiracy to blame the Jews with zero evidence involved. Name one time. One time that I've. I've put out a theory that I can't argue. Maybe I'm getting it wrong. I'm not. But for the sake of argument, maybe I'm getting it wrong, but I at least have a case to be made. But, like, anyway, there's just never. There's no example. No one who listens to this is surprised by me taking this position. There's nothing courageous about it not losing anyone over, like, not jumping on this immediately. But anyway, so those guys are all trying to. To weaponize it. As if somehow the fact that I go, hey, guys, do we have any evidence of Israeli involvement? And no one can answer me with any goddamn evidence. The fact that that proves what? That you've been right for supporting the fucking destruction of the captive people in Gaza for the last two years. Like, no, it really doesn't. So, but, like, anyway, I just did think that was shitty and a just gross attempt to just nakedly politicize what should just be a tragic event. And also in a really dumb way. Like, you're not even making a good point. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Moink Box. I love Moink. Moink is a great company doing a great service for Americans. They're not just delivering delicious meat to your doorstep, but they're also keeping family farms going. 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But for a limited time only, and only when you sign up@moinkbox.com PotP that's M O I N K B O X.com P O T P All right, let's get back into the show.

B (21:43)

I think it's just too early to hop onto these things. Yeah, I'm. I'm open to the idea that Charlie Kirk was breaking away from supporting Israel and that Israel could assassinate a person for that reason, but there's no evidence for it yet. I certainly hope that that's not true because it would make it a scarier environment for you and I. And also that would, I think, just be the.

A (22:07)

Like.

B (22:07)

I think that would be the end of that country if it actually came out that that's what happened here. But it's just. It's too early to jump on. To jump on these storylines, and it feels a little irresponsible to just jump to those things, particularly with absolute claims.

A (22:22)

Well, now this is. Now this is the other problem that we have here. And again, I do feel a little bit. And I don't know, you know, because you don't know when you do these shows, you don't know exactly who's listening and what every listener's views are. But I do feel like for the most part, I'm kind of talking about people who don't listen to this show. I just would, like. I'd like to think, and I think I'm right, that the majority of people who listen to the show don't fall into this. Although we. We all certainly are conspiratorial. You know, like in. In the broadest sense of the word. I mean, I think being like, I've. There was one video I did that someone clipped and, you know, it kind of went viral. But where I was just. I. I think my line was something like. I was like, there's no question anymore. Like, are you a conspiracy theorist or are you not? The question is, are you a conspiracy theorist or are you, like, brain dead? Like, that's. You know what I'm saying? Like, anybody who's telling the truth about politics in 2025 is a conspiracy theorist of one stripe or the other. There's. But there is a difference between people who build cases based off evidence connected by a narrative, you know what I mean? Then just wildly jumping to conclusions when there's no evidence to back that up at all. And of that group of people, they really, I will say, I think that, like, they. They almost create this. How to say it? Like, they just create this, like, circular logic that is impossible to penetrate. And so even right now, I guarantee you, like, again, not with the people I feel like, who really listen to the show, but it's more like the people who will react to clips of this online, which is a different circle outside of, you know, the circle who listens to the episodes. Even they. You will see the response to this being like, oh, Dave got the call. Oh, look, Dave's controlled opposition. Oh, look. Why is it, dude, I had a few different people, like, on social media who were just like, I don't know, dude, it's pretty weird that Dave's been spending the last few years telling us about all the evil Israel did, but now he's trying to protect them. And you're like, dude, what? Like, how dumb is this conversation right now? I'm sorry, this is just. You've just created like a tautology of. Is that the way. I might be using that wrong, but you've created this circular argument where heads you win, tails I lose, or Whatever. Like, you just. It's silly. It's the same thing. By the way, the Nazis do it, too, about Jews in general, where, like, they'll be like, you know, you see a Jew like Mark Levin arguing, you know, for Israel to kill more Palestinians or something, and they go, see, that's just like, what the Jews do. And then you see a Jew like Max Blumenthal arguing that it's so goddamn horrible that the Israelis are the Palestinians like this. And they go see how they play both sides of every issue. Like, so. So the first point is evidence. The second point, the opposite, is also evidence. Like, isn't that. Isn't that a convenient way to view the world? But look, like, none of that is my concern. I don't care. Like, my job is to tell the truth and, and get right and talk about what's really happening and what's right and what's wrong. Like, that's my job. My job is not to. You know, I heard. I was talking with. So I won't say who it was, but I was talking with someone who's, you know, in this world of, you know, a person that people listening would know their name and one of the smartest people in this. In this game. And he. He said to me, which I actually did find very funny, like, he was just completely agreeing with me about, like, how. How ridiculous it is that everyone's. And this is a very well known, very harsh critic of Israel. And he was agreeing with me about, like, yeah, we really got no case here. Like, what are people even talking about? And also, then just like, on the face of it, it doesn't seem very pl. Possible that this would be right. But then he goes, at one point, he goes. He goes, well, you know, one of the inadvertent aspects of all of this is that we may have just gotten an insurance policy against an Israeli false flag. Because, like, Israel. Israel's never going to launch a false flag now because they know that the American people are just going to assume they did it. So that is. And I was just like, that kind of caught me off guard. And I go, that might be the best argument for people, you know, believing in this conspiracy based on nothing. But, you know, again, it's just like, that's not my job. My job is just to tell the truth. I'm. I don't. I'm not Machiavellian in that way. And somebody else can figure out how to, like, manipulate the masses into getting a positive outcome or something like that. That's not what I do. I just tell the, I just tell you the truth. And that's why you guys like to listen, you know, like that's, that's it. And so, you know, the, the truth is that there's absolutely no evidence or reason to think that Israel did this. That's, that's just the facts right now. You could maybe try to come up with, well, maybe, but that's just that, that's just, it's not even speculating. You are wondering aloud that's what you're doing, which is fine, but like at least acknowledge that's what you're doing. But I will say also it does seem to me like essentially Gen Z has just decided this was Israel and that's that. And I don't know that me or anyone else just pointing out that you have no evidence is really going to stop them from, from continuing down that path. There's, you know, if you're being sloppy and just widely connecting dots, but not like tightly connecting dots, if that makes sense. You could blame Israel for just about anything these days and feel on some superficial level like you were justified to do it. But the truth is that, you know, there's, there's. And we could get into some more of this, but I think there's nothing, there's nothing that points in that direction right now. There's nothing that points in the groiper direction like the. Again, I'm not saying trust the FBI. I'm not saying Israel wouldn't do this. Keep investigating it, keep looking into it. Maybe as Rob said, maybe we will come out with some theory. Maybe Israel did do it. And six months from now I'm going to be sitting here talking to you going like, holy, let's put this all together here. This really does look like that's what happened as of right now. It's not like we have not enough, it's not like we have not enough evidence to bring charges. If you were a police department, you go, you have no reason to even be looking at them as the person of interest. You have. No, like, it's just, none of it really makes sense. And so specifically the question was asked about Max Blumenthal. His, the, the piece that he wrote in the Gray Zone and his interview with Tim Dillon. And I, I say this wholeheartedly by prefacing that I am a fan of Max Blumenthal. I have really enjoyed and learned from much of his work. And the Gray Zone has done phenomenal reporting over the last couple years. Particularly their, their coverage of the of Gaza has been excellent and so important and so necessary. But yeah, I thought this article was crazy. I thought it was crazy that they ran it. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe when I first read it that Blumenthal even like put his name on this thing and published the piece. It was like Judith Miller at the New York Times or something like that. Like, okay, they never came out and said Israel did it, but the whole piece was just like, huh, get you thinking about that. And with nothing. Dude, there was. I mean, I don't care. Let me, let me pull this. Did you read this, by the way? Rob?

B (30:09)

I saw that he was on Tim Dillon's show, but I was doing shows yesterday. I didn't get a chance to watch it. But loosely, what I've just seen on Twitter is that there's some oddities to the person that they finally arrested, which includes that it doesn't look like he had a gun when he was climbing down. Well, the fact that he.

A (30:28)

Yes, let's look, let's. Let's get into all of that in a second. But just to be clear here, right, so this is in, in the midst of all of this, the people theorizing that Israel did it. The title of the pieces, Charlie Kirk refused Netanyahu funding offer was quote, frightened by pro Israel forces before death friend reveals. Now, a title like that is again, this is the type of stuff that we would have called out the New York Times for. Judith Miller never, never technically said Saddam has weapons of mass destruction. She just like totally left it for you to be the one who, you know, like put that those dots together and went like, oh, look at the. Clearly the implication here is that. And then would not publish the things that totally contradicted, you know, like, like there was the dude. Was his name Albright, right? Was Aldrich Aldrich, who was like the like world leading nuclear inspector guy. And he totally debunked like one of the propaganda pieces that the New York Times was running with. And even there was a piece in the Washington Post where they ran that he had debunked it. And he called Judith Miller and goes, you can put me on the record as like the foremost expert here that this is just not true. Like, I can prove that this is wrong. And she just didn't run it. And then when Jon Stewart asked her about it, she went, no, I included that in the piece. And she goes, no, you didn't. And then in the piece it's like she said like other experts disagreed. And. And he's like, yeah, but why didn't you quote this world renowned expert who called you and said, put me on the record. And Judith Miller's response was, I think it got cut for space. Isn't that, isn't that convenient? This seems like a pretty important part of the article to cut for space, you know, but. So it's like that. Look, dude, they have a. And again, I don't want to beat up on Max Blumenthal anymore. I, I really do admire the guy in many ways. But there's the whole section of the article, okay? The bottom section of the article is titled the Israel did it Theory. Okay? That's what it's called, the Israel did it theory. And then where is it? On the second paragraph, the first sentence reads, there is currently no evidence of an Israeli government role in Kirk's assassination. However, that has not stopped thousands of social media people. But like, that one sentence means there shouldn't be a section called the Israel did it theory. Like, you can't, you can't have a whole section called like the Israel did it just stoking it and then casually admit in there that you have zero evidence. Look, I mean, look, what you have here is that one guy said that Charlie, one guy off the record said, or, you know, one anonymous guy said Charlie Kircher was scared of the Israelis. It's like, okay, that's, that's interesting. It's quite possibly true, and it also quite possibly could be completely true. And that in no way implies that Israel did this. It's just, I know people like connecting these dots, but, like, sometimes they don't connect. It's not the case that because you were in a tense relationship where you may have even feel felt threatened, that doesn't prove that that's the person who did anything to you. And, you know, I guess one of the things that's, that's weird about this is that I am personally kind of a central figure in this theory. Like, I'm, you know, like the, the thing is that Charlie, and this is def. This part's definitely true and we could kind of get into all of this. But the part that's true is that yet Charlie Kirk took a lot of heat for having me and Tucker and Megyn Kelly saying the she was saying. But he took particularly a lot of heat for hosting me at his last big event and that he had talked about this on podcast, that a lot of people on the Pro Z side were very upset about that and he stuck to his guns and defended that. You know, so, like, that part is true. That dynamic was going on. Now you've got some people, some insiders saying he was legitimately really scared of them. And, and even some people saying he feared for his life. And like, okay, that's an interesting. That is enough of a nugget to go. I sure would love to look into that more, but that's about all you got. Again, that's not exonerating anybody, but, but to your point, or as you were saying before, from what we have right now, the, the, the. Which is not much, but the evidence that we have points toward this was a radicalized young lefty kid who, who went out and did this. That. That's what, that's what most of it. Now, if we can get some type of Mossad connection to that family, if we can get some type of like, oh, here's a new piece of information there. I'm all ears. But to just jump in and, and the funny thing here, Rob, is that, like, and I guess in this sense, I get where that person was going, like, oh, it's courageous of me. It's not because I don't lose anything from doing this. But obviously on a purely, like, just reading the temperature right now, on a purely business move, it would be like, I would be incentivized to just jump into this thing as one of the central figures in it and go, yeah, dude, Charlie was telling me, too, that he was turning on Israel, but this is just not true. It's just not. Like, I, I don't know. And, and what I was comparing to Altridge, I think Aldridge anyway, what I was comparing to Judith Miller, leaving out that part in the New York Times that, like, they speculate in the article about, like, oh, oh, oh, Charlie Kirk had said this, and he had said that, which is like, it's true to some degree, but you're leaving out all the other. He said in that period of time, too. And I thought there was so many people were like, really spinning that Ben Shapiro interview. Like, I don't know if you saw that making its rounds on, on Twitter, Rob. But like, there, yeah, dude, when you put dramatic music in and you just play Charlie Kirk's questions, a few of the questions make it sound like, oh, he. But if you actually go watch the interview and you actually can try your best to take your con, your mind out of how we're viewing the situation now and put yourself into how we were viewing it last week or what two weeks ago when they did the interview. And there you could see the whole thing. Rob. Right? It was the whole dynamic that was there. Which just to me this just explains almost all of this. Was that Charlie Kirk, unlike all these other guys, right? So Charlie Kirk runs Turning Point usa. Turning Point USA is the biggest like college campus conservative activist, Republican group. So his job is to funnel young people into voting for Republicans, right? Like that's what Charlie Kirk's in the business of doing. So Charlie Kirk now he's not Ben Shapiro and he's not Dave Rubin and he's not Jordan Peterson. He's not any of those other guys. He's got a different thing that he's got to do. He has to deal with the young right wingers every day. That's his job. He's got to deal with that 20 year old right wing, you know, member of the Republican club at their college activist and keep them on board. Now activists, for anyone who's been involved in politics at all, especially like talking college campus activists, this is like you're not going to get paid. If you're getting paid at all, you're getting nothing. If you're getting paid, you're getting, you know, peanuts and you're going to work your ass off for this cause. That's what you need to run something like Turning Point usa. What you need is the young activist class. These are your most loyal people because they are truly motivated. Like these are, you know, Charlie Kirk's got some 20 year old out there who like is like to the core of his body like Jesus Christ is his Lord and Savior and Jesus Christ blessed the United States of America and its constitution and this republic is in trouble and we need to get these signatures in order to achieve this large. Like you need people who believe that hard that they'll go collect signatures in the rain or canvas at events or you know, do all the, all the things that you have to do to be this type of organization. And he's his young base, he is bleeding right now like the, his, he is a, a guy who supports Israel and his, the young people are just, they are abandoning Israel in at rapid, a rapid rate, like a crazy pace. The, the support for Israel has evaporated. We talked all about this after I went to that event and did it. And so right there that's the dynamic. Charlie Kirk was caught between a rock and a hard place. And that was his donors and his base and he had to keep both in order to do Turning Points usa, you have to have both. You got to have billionaires backing you and you got to have young activists who are that passionate about doing the work. Otherwise the Whole thing can't happen. And so to the Ben Shapiro interview, what it clearly is, if you see that it's not Charlie turning on Israel, it's Charlie going, hey, Ben, I'm talking to the kids. And the kids all say, ethnic cleansing. What do you say? And then Ben Shapiro gives you five minutes of Hasbro bullshit. And then he goes, now, you know, when I talk to the kids, they say this five minutes of Hasbro bullshit. There's not one tough follow up question. There's not. The clear goal of the thing is to steer you back toward supporting Israel. So like just don't, don't lie to me and don't lie to other people. You know, like, that's not like, is it maybe raise a little bit of an eyebrow that he is actually, he actually said the words ethnic cleansing and he actually brought up like, how can Benjamin Netanyahu, you know, say that you're not MAGA if you don't support Israel? Isn't that up? It's like, okay, yes, it's. Maybe it raises an eyebrow. But look, if we're being critical here, that's clearly just explained away by the fact that it's like you got to address. He's basically going to Ben Shapiro. You have to give me something to address what they are saying here. He needs an argument back, which he does not have. You know, like, again, I just think it's incumbent on all of us if we want to know the truth, if we want to be clear headed thinkers, especially for someone like us, when there's a story that confirms your bias, you got to scrutinize it that much more. You can't. And especially when you're jumping to a wild theory. And even as somebody, I think Netanyahu is the devil and Israel is like the most evil regime. It's just goddamn inexcusable. What they've done to the Palestinian people for 60 years, but really for the last two is particularly inexcusable. But do I really think that the Mossad shot Charlie Kirk in the next in the neck publicly executing it? I got a tough time believing that, man. Like, this isn't like his funding dried up and the ADL wrote a hit piece about him or something, you know, like this is really. They would do that. I gotta say, that's pretty far fetched, man. And you're gonna have to have a real piece of there there to get me thinking that's what happened. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is My Patriot support apply. I love this company. And you're going to want to pay attention right now because September is National Preparedness Month. So it's the perfect time to ask yourself some questions, like how much food do you have on hand for an emergency? How would you get clean water if the tap went dry tomorrow? What would you do if a storm knocked out your power for a week? If you're anything like me, these are the type of questions you think about and you want to do the best you can to be as prepared as you could should one of these situations happen. 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B (43:32)

Well, I, I agree with all, with all that. There's another thing, top of mind. I'm curious your thoughts on this because I've been thinking about this a lot. I guess when the incident first happened, I was on a phone call with a friend and I said, it's for sure gonna be some young radicalized 20 year old. And he goes, you're wrong. There was some old guy who was originally taken in. Now, I'm of the belief that words are not violence. And if somebody's inspired to violence because of your words, that's a crazy individual. And you've had that on both the left and right of people making statements and then the other side going, look, you're inspiring people to violence, violence. And I'm not of the belief that the words that you say necessarily, particularly in comedy, but I, I don't think you can attribute violence to people's words or fault when other people act violently. I do see a big problem at the moment, which is like, you know, I've watched these videos of these people kind of celebrating Charlie Kirk's death. And what's interesting when you do that is that you out yourself as being okay with violence being used towards other. And I'm seeing like just a bad circle that almost just needs to be disrupted here of people on the left who have decided that just right wing individuals are violent towards them. The same way that, like, if someone was out there preaching full scale socialism, I could understand why someone might come to the conclusion of, oh, this guy's gonna repossess my house if he gets elected, he's being violent towards me. And so it seems like because of rhetoric that's been used of trans cancellation or whatever else, some people feel like violence towards people on the right is actually appropriate. And now in coming out and basically indicating the fact that they're okay with violence, they're also inviting violence on themselves because you're saying, hey, I'm okay with violence being used against people that have different opinions or different words than what I do. And now I don't think that anyone who's used language in articles that inspires crazy people who may or may not be trans or tied to the trans community to go and be violent are responsible for their violence. But I do just kind of see a, like a dark trend here, which is like, I'm kind of putting words to what I found so alarming about Charlie being killed, which is we're now jumping into like a new territory of kind of horror for society, which is instead of just engaging converse in conversation, people who don't like your words being like, well, you're not allowed to speak those words. But like, without attributing violence to words, I just see like kind of a dark cycle here of people being more inclined or thinking it's appropriate to use violence because they just think that other people, like, it's just the, it's like the Planet of the Apes. Fear of other.

A (46:25)

Yeah, yeah. Well, look, I mean, there's, you know, it's one of those things where like the, the negative kind of gets more attention than the positive because it's a bigger story. So like they're, they're also. I don't want it to be lost that like, there's also like tons of videos of people and I've seen videos of like leftists and, and liberals alike being like, hey, dude, like, if you're like celebrating this, you're not on my side, you know, like, and this, like, that's just like having basic humanity. But there's no question. I mean, it's. Yeah, there's, there's a really, there's, there's a disturbing rot that has been revealed. You know, I was listening the other day to Provoked, which is the new podcast with the. My favorite new podcast out there with Scott Horton and Daryl Cooper, who obviously are both, you know, those are, those are our guys. But their, their last episode was really interesting and you know, Daryl brought up at once and I can't remember the, I can't remember the source on it, but if you go look at the, if you go watch the episode, he, he gave it, but I can't like remember it to quote it. But it was something where it was like, I think one of the biggest like mental health surveys. Like I think I remember him saying like it was like 600, 000 people or something. It was like it's gigantic like medical survey where they found like it was just talking about the rates of mental illness among young people. And I think it was something like it was, it was around 25% of like people under 30 reported that they had like, had strong suicidal thoughts within the last few weeks and had considered suicide within the last six months. Or like something like. I don't remember the exact numbers, but it was like something like that like a quarter of young people were like quasi suicidal. And this number is way up from, from previous surveys. And you know, there is a thing where like you kind of. I think that like a, a statistic like that should have been a like, you know, stop the record. Everything comes to a screeching halt. We go, this now becomes the number one issue that our society is focused on. Like this is the number one news story. And just like nothing like that happens. It's just kind of like, yeah, hey, I guess we all got to take it as a given that our, our society sure does drive a lot of people crazy these days. And I just think like, you know, it's a. We sit here and cover this stuff all the time, but you can't like, you can't understate how much like we've driven a lot of people crazy over the last few years by making some really crazy situations around them. And, and I think the real, the true ugly part of that was, was revealed with a lot of that stuff. You know, there's an interesting con conversation. I'm kind of interesting to get your take on this because this is an issue that I've been, you know, struggling a little bit with and, and thinking about. But you know, there's been an effort, I guess several of these people who made videos, like, I know we're talking regular people here, but clearly regular kind of, you know, disturbed people. And there's, there's been several of them who have gotten fired now for, you know, because people find out who they are, find out where they work, send it to their employer, and they get them fired. And, you know, then there's some people going, hey, this is like, Cancel Culture or whatever. You know, I. I also remember. Well, I saw the. There was like, a kind of prominent lefty journalist who I like, who got called out for like, being hypocritical on this because she was basically saying, like, oh, you're. You're getting people fired now. Like, we don't have free speech about Charlie Kirk anymore. And then they. They found a video where she had been saying after that. I don't know if you ever saw Mehdi Hassan went on that Jubilee Roundtable thing, and there were, like, a couple of guys there who were, like, just openly identifying as fascists. And, you know, I don't remember, like, the d. I don't know how, like, into, like, Hitler was great. They got. But I. I just saw that and that. And that guy got fired from his job. As if she had celebrated that guy getting fired. But now she was critical of these people. So people like, pointing that out. And I think that, like, the truth is, when Cancel Culture is out of control, it's very easy for the people who are against that to claim their free speech absolutists. When it actually comes down to it, most people, you know, actually do have probably, like, their own line and they have their own thing that, like, oh, if you were to do that, I actually am for you being, you know, like, I. I just don't think, like, if we're just being really honest with ourselves here. Right. We obviously. And I'm even leaving aside, like, say, the. Take the government angle out of it, because obviously the government had a big part of, you know, censoring people and Cancel Culture and all that stuff. But, you know, we objected not just to the fact that they were kicking people off social media. We objected that they were kicking people off for telling the truth about a really important thing. If they had just said, like, hey, if you. If the rule was like, hey, if you advocate for pedophilia or something like that, then you get kicked off of every single social media platform. Like, I'd actually be kind of okay with that. Like, yeah, okay, fine. That's a reasonable enough thing. Anyway. I guess I just say all of this to go. On one hand, I. I like to always be against the Cancel Culture stuff. I certainly am not going to try to get anyone fired, even for making a video in really poor taste. On the other hand, like, if you, you know, Isaac, we had this recently where someone we knew did that thing where they sang the Kanye song and then they got fired from their job. And I kind of like, just was like, yeah, dude. Well, I don't know. Like, if you got a, if you got a corporate job, maybe you can't go shout the N word on social media. I don't know. I mean, I don't think that's the most crazy, unreasonable standard. And you know this. I don't think about this much, but, like, there is a moral standard that I would have, that I wouldn't work, that I would fire someone over. It'd be pretty out there. But, like, like, for example, like, I don't care what Natalie's politics are. I know they deviate from my own. I know we don't have the same views on everything, and I would never even think about that as, like, an issue in terms of working together with someone. But, like, I don't know if, yeah, if I found out that, like, Natalie was advocating for pedophilia, which to my knowledge she only does privately, but if I found that out, yeah, that would probably be a deal breaker. Like, I don't think we can work together anymore. And so anyway, I just, I guess I see, and I'm curious your take on this, but I see there being an argument that like, there, there should be some type of penalty, like socially for that type of antisocial behavior. Like a goddamn, A goddamn peaceful Christian is, Is publicly murdered in front of his wife and young children. And you're gloating about that? I mean, I don't know. I'm having trouble feeling bad for you getting fired for doing that publicly. It's just. You're just, you just got fired for publicly being an awful person. I, I don't know. What are your thoughts, Rob?

B (53:44)

All right, I, I. This has been swirling around in my head quite a bit. So to all the fans out there, don't hold me to this op. Gotta. I gotta dwell on this.

A (53:53)

I kind of feel the same way about my thoughts too. Like, I'm struggling with this.

B (53:56)

I really gotta give it a lot more thought. The idea of social credit scores and the idea of cancel culture scares me. And it's particularly because mostly it's been weaponized against my political viewpoints. And I could have seen, even though, you know, I was just mostly shadow banned or stripped for content over Covid. I don't work a corporate job. And I, There's a good chance if I had a corporate job and I was out here talking about how, you know, the vaccines are dangerous, that I could have been fired from my job because you're spewing, you know, you're anti science or whatever else. So I'm against like the concept of cancel culture because it is typically influenced by government or historically it's been used for nefarious means. With that said, I understand also that there are some things that are so socially unacceptable that if you want to broadcast that viewpoint online, I can understand why an employer would no longer want to have you hired. And I also understand that it almost seems important to educate people that some opinions are so socially unacceptable that maybe we scare people out of having those opinions. It's almost like a fair market mechanism of like educating people for your pro violence against someone who is using words to bring people towards Christian and conservatism. Like, that's. You know what I mean? Like something's missing in your worldview that not only were you okay with this, but you didn't keep that opinion private. I mean, that's at the level if you, if someone from your office decided that they wanted to be a Nazi and they're online making YouTube videos, hail Hitler, Holocaust never happened. We need to kill more Jews. If someone sent that to an employer and the guy got fired, like, and I even feel that way. But like, listen, I, I'm, I'm very into. Make whatever that whole joke you want to make, whatever joke you want to make, go ahead and you make that joke. But if you're an open mic comedian and you decide to make a school shooting joke right after school shooting thing happened for one, it better be a really funny joke because otherwise, you know, why are you exploring that territory unless you have a really funny joke? But even if you have an extremely funny joke, you probably shouldn't have a corporate job. Like, if someone sends that to your employer and your employer is like, yeah, well, that doesn't fit our office landscape. You know, I don't know. Whoever sent that video to your boss is probably a dick. But like, I don't think you're. I would think your office is wrong for not having you.

A (56:17)

Yeah, I would also, like, I would hate to see, you know, I guess I do. You know, I got to think some of the stuff through myself. But like, there's something about, like if you were making the joke at a comedy club, like there's something where it's like you did this in an environment where people went into it knowing that this is an environment to do jokes and push boundaries and stuff. There is a little bit something different about, like, making a video, putting it online with the intention being that someone who really cared about Charlie Kirk will see this. You know what I mean? Like, the intention being that, like, I'm gonna really just the. In the most despicable way, attempt to trigger somebody who, like, just lost someone that they loved. It's just, you know, you're making yourself very hard to defend at that point. I'll say that much. We're. We're trying, but you're making it tough. All right. Anyway, so I want to talk a little bit more. I'm trying to think of what other.

B (57:13)

So just. But on that one, I gotta give him more thought because I hate. I hate. I hate cancel culture. And I hate the idea of kind of the marketplace and social credit scores and someone being able to influence, hey, this guy is socially unacceptable. And then, therefore, rights or otherwise being, like, stripped from you, which might even include just being able to access or go to a business. The particular usage in this case, while I'm not engaging or encouraging it, I fully understand kind of a market mechanism for if you're online and you're celebrating that a dude was killed over that, you don't agree with him. And at the end of his root message, even though I don't agree with him on Israel or whatever else, like, he was, you know, I don't know. We live in a bad culture. Kids aren't getting married. The guy was a Christian conservative. We probably need more of that message. And if you're so, like, happy about what happened and you think that you live amongst other people that are also going to, like, celebrate you for coming out and thinking, this is great. I like. I don't know in this particular usage, I just think, like, it's probably. You probably shouldn't be able to work your corporate job. It's probably a cleansing mechanism to educate people to the fact, like. Like, that is a socially unacceptable perspective to have. But I got to give it some thought because, like, I don't. I just don't want to advocate for cancel culture.

A (58:33)

Yeah, no, it's. Listen, I understand. I understand where you're coming from. I'm like. As I said, when I brought up the subject, I'm conflicted on the issue myself. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Crowd Health, a company I've been telling you guys about for many years. I love what they're doing. They've. They're really creating an alternative to the broken health insurance system. And now they have the Black Swan membership. It's the healthcare alternative for people who want autonomy over their care, their costs and their lifestyle. They just need a little help with the Black Swan events that happen in life. So now for just $95 a month, you get access to a team of health bill negotiators, low cost prescription and lab testing tools, and a database of low cost, high quality doctors vetted by crowd health. You stay in control without insurance networks dictating your care. And what if something major happens? You pay the first 15,000 and then the crowd steps in to help fund the rest. It feels like the options that we used to have before Obamacare came in and messed everything up. And now if you use the promo code POTP, it's only $80 for the first three months. Go check them out@joincrowdhealth.com and remember, for that deal, 80amonth for the first three months, you got to use the promo code POTP. Crowd health is not insurance. Opt out. Take your power back. This is how we win. I do, however, want to before we, we end. I do kind of want to maybe. Here's a conspiracy theory that I do believe. Not exactly a conspiracy theory, but a major concern of mine with all of this. And of course, certainly in some weird way, it does seem like the powers that be are almost doing everything they can to fan the flames of some Israel conspiracy. I don't know if you saw Donald Trump tweeting that image with Charlie Kirk and the Israeli flag was just very bizarre. Of course, Marco Rubio goes over to kiss the wall and do a big photo just to, just to remind everybody in this moment that are at the highest levels of our government, they are still forced to perform this humiliation ritual of sorts of. And Benjamin Netanyahu, of course, is jumping on, on this and it does seem that, okay, while I still do not see any coherent theory or evidence that Israel was involved in this at all, I'll gladly acknowledge if any is presented. The best I've seen that they got so far, by the way, which is a, you know, a fair enough thing to say, hey, this is like, I'm, I'll raise an eyebrow at this too. But that guy, the old guy who was there, like, I guess evidently has like, I gotta go like double check that this is right. But I guess he like, he was involved in like, like reporting a bomb threat at a marathon in Utah, like shortly after the Boston bombing. And I guess he also called authorities and said he was a witness to the world Trade center getting hit with an airplane or something like that. And I'll, I'll grant that it did kind of look like, oh, once they let him go, like, maybe this was some type of decoy guy to let the real shooter get away or something like that. I just also, like, I've been to a lot of political events and they almost always have like, some old kind of crazy people there. Like, and, and it's not that wild to me that, like, a crazy guy who is involved in these crazy things before was crazy and was there and when crazy guy saw a dude murked right in front of him, he started acting crazy. Like, I just, I don't know. But like, that's also not, it's not conclusive, but it is enough to raise an eyebrow anyway. What. There's no question that, you know, and I used to get this all the time when I would argue with truthers who would always point to the fact that the neocons exploited the shit at a 911 as proof that they did 9 11. But I would always just be like, yeah, but that doesn't follow. Like, one doesn't prove the other. Like, yes, I'm with you. They clearly exploited the out of it. That doesn't mean they did it. It's not evidence pointing to the fact that they did it. And people will. They get, like I said, they get sloppy with this. They're like, who benefits? I hear everyone on Twitter saying that, like, first of all, it's not clear at all that Israel benefits from this. They're going to try their best because, of course, whether they did it or didn't do it, they're going to try their best to benefit from it, it. But just on the face of it, and also, I don't know, blowing, you know, blowing away publicly, the, the number one moderate right winger who still talks to young people doesn't seem like on its face, that's clearly going to end up in Israel's favor, by the way. In fact, I would be willing to bet it doesn't. But I do think they are. Absolutely. And you could already see Donald Trump's doing this is that they're stoking the flames toward. It's this problem with the left, the left, the radical left, Rob, is what they're all going to kind of zero in on now. And like, if anything from our government has demonstrated over the last couple years, but really since Donald Trump's been in there. But, like, do I even have to tell you? Like, it's going to target the pro Palestine movement, that's who they're going to try to use this energy to try as much as they can to clamp down on the group that's been giving them a lot of trouble for it. And, you know, there's, it's, you already saw this with our immigration policy totally being hijacked to just be about deporting critics of Israel who don't have citizenship, even if they're here legally deport them for that. And I just, that that's really a concern of mine too, that you, like, now you get the crackdown. And, and this crackdown, of course, is going to be used in the way that government power seems to always be used or, or quite often at least. And so that I do think is a real concern, you know. And then I've already seen, like, I'll try to find for the next episode, more of the clips, but I've already seen, like, several Republicans who you could see it's like coded language, but you know exactly what they're talking about. And Benjamin Netanyahu himself and I talk about, you know, and like I was saying last night on a stream, but like, it's not Benjamin Netanyahu's not a kook. Right. He's just a liar. But you see him getting on there and saying it was a Muslim, like, right away, it's like right away just started talking about radical Islam and how this is a problem of radical Islam that both Israel and America have to deal with. How much was he just rooting for? Yeah, first of all, if it was Israel, they'd have had a Muslim to it. Let me tell you that much. If it was Israel, they would have found one Muslim to be the guy who does it, because that's what Netanyahu was rooting for. But anyway, I do get concerned about that. And then one final thought, and then you could have the last word, Rob. But then just one final thought is I also think of the official story, which I with all these things, you're kind of, if there's one guarantee in them, the guarantee is that the official story will be. But the official story, like, even now is like, Cash Patel is out there just like, like, he's like, celebrating the FBI and bragging about what a great job they did. But then, like, according to the official story, like, no police work was involved at all. It's like the guy's dad just, like, decided to turn him in. That is the, that's the story. There's absolutely nothing of, like, we did this, this and this, then that led to this, you're like, oh, you guys got lucky. You lost the freaking guy. Like, you got lucky. And then now you're like, you know. Anyway, Cash Patel is. Is saying right now that he's got a whole bunch of proof, and, you know, that they found a towel, they've got DNA and all this stuff. I gotta say, like, at this point in time, I don't think anyone's gonna believe what the FBI says. I don't think anyone's gonna believe what Israel says. But for people who listen to this show, I think we should just. Especially. Especially in moments like this, you want to keep a good head on your shoulders and actually look for, like, what we know, what the real evidence is and. And move from there. Anyway, final word to you, Rob.

B (66:49)

Well, amidst the FBI storyline, which, yes, does include that the dad just called them, so there was no great police work, and now the police work is in putting together the evidence. There's still just oddities in the story that the original picture doesn't come quite look like this kid. It doesn't not look like the kid, but, yeah, it just doesn't look exactly like the kid. And then there's that video of a guy coming down from a roof, and you got to wonder, well, where's the rifle then?

A (67:17)

Yeah.

B (67:17)

And then just the idea of, like. It's like the little details of, like, why the towel? And so, you know, I'm not saying. I think it's just too early to know what happened here, but to be celebrating the great work of the FBI while you've got this odd. It's like, we're gonna show you the video. Oh, yeah, we edited out a video. Well, I'm talking the Epstein thing, where it's like. Yeah, well, we got bombshell proof. We'll show you the video. Oh, yeah, we edited out the important minute. Oh, but now we refound it, even though it was missing. We refound it, but the metadata is off. It's like. I don't know.

A (67:51)

What are we talking about here, man? Yeah, yeah. No, 100%. All right, well, thank you, everybody, for listening. We'll catch you tomorrow.

B (67:59)

I'm. I'm still porching. I'm not as dignified as a person as Dave, so you can find me. Vegas is canceled, but I'll be in Arizona on Sunday. And then next week, Thursday, I've got Long Island, Omaha, Nebraska, and Kansas City. And you can find all the dates over@port store.com.

A (68:15)

Hell, yeah. All right, catch you guys tomorrow. Peace.