Passion Struck with John R. Miles

Episode 664: Cheryl McKissack Daniel on Create a Legacy That Matters
Release Date: September 16, 2025

Episode Overview

This powerful episode of Passion Struck continues the podcast’s “Decoding Humanity” series, focusing on the profound topic of legacy and what it means to leave a lasting impact. Host John R. Miles sits down with Cheryl McKissack Daniel, fifth-generation CEO of McKissack & McKissack—the nation's oldest minority-owned design and construction firm. Together, they explore Cheryl’s remarkable family history, her personal journey through adversity, the unique challenges and opportunities of being a Black woman leader in construction, and the deeper meaning of legacy for individuals, families, and communities.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rooted in Legacy: Identity and Influence

• Cheryl reflects on her childhood and early awareness that her family’s reputation shaped her life (“I was very much aware that my family had a prominence because of the legacy…” 05:27).
• Growing up, she heard constant reminders of her family’s achievements and their names woven into the fabric of American building history.

2. Defining the American Dream from a History of Enslavement

• Cheryl discusses the harsh reality that her family’s start in America was rooted in slavery, yet their story is one of turning adversity into opportunity:
  • “My ancestors didn’t choose to come to this country… But yet over the years, they persevered and they’ve been able to make a place for them in this country.” (07:01)
  • She expresses appreciation for the skills and trades passed down, ultimately allowing her to fulfill her version of the American Dream—living in a “tall building in Manhattan.”

3. Passing the Torch: Five Generations of Building America

• The journey began with Moses McKissack I, who learned brickmaking as an enslaved person, to Moses II (master carpenter), and Moses III (first licensed Black architect in America).
• Each generation faced significant racism and resistance but built on the previous generation’s work to create opportunities that expanded over time (08:42).
• Key traits passed down include perseverance, preparedness, persistence, purpose—and Cheryl’s addition: prayer (10:24).

Notable Quote:

“They had what I call the four principles that they lived on. Perseverance, preparedness, persistence, and purpose. Now I add the fifth one…prayer.”
– Cheryl McKissack Daniel [10:24]

4. Barriers Broken: Licensure and Recognition

• Moses McKissack III and brother were repeatedly denied architectural licenses due to racism but did not give up.
• Eventually allowed to sit for the exam, they passed, prompting state officials to help them gain licensure in 22 additional states (10:24–12:37).
• Example of how perseverance and changing hearts can transform systems.

Notable Quote:

“It just goes to show you that the minds of men can change, and it can be influenced in a different way. It’s the Saul/Paul story.”
– Cheryl McKissack Daniel [12:16]

5. Family History as Blueprint: The Family Tree Project

• Cheryl describes reconstructing her family tree as if it were a literal blueprint, inspired by her work experience and desire to honor every generation (14:58).
• She encourages others to do the same to preserve their own legacies.

6. The Influence of Real-World Role Models

• Cheryl and John reminisce about growing up influenced by their immediate circles—family, church leaders, coaches—rather than curated personas on social media (17:02–19:39).
• Cheryl observes how “the Internet was raising my kids,” stressing the importance of real, unplugged intergenerational conversations.

Notable Quote:

“Young people should engage in a room without their cell phones and with real people because you mature that way, learn a lot that way.”
– Cheryl McKissack Daniel [20:34]

7. Facing Racism and Adversity—and Choosing to Shine

• Cheryl recounts an early experience of racism: a cross burned at a child’s birthday party near historic Black colleges, making her aware of bigotry at age 11 (24:00).
• Her parents instilled love rather than bitterness; she resolved to “let my light shine so bright that you’re gonna look at it and you’re gonna say, okay, she’s a black woman, but she’s cool.”
• She addresses ongoing struggles with systemic racism and efforts to erase uncomfortable histories.

Notable Quote:

“It’s not like trying to seek approval—it's just more of, here is who I am and here’s who I want to be…Let my light shine.”
– Cheryl McKissack Daniel [24:54]

8. Tuskegee: A National Breakthrough

• The family’s historic contract to build the Tuskegee Army Airfield (1942) was a transformative moment, thanks in part to Eleanor Roosevelt’s advocacy for Black excellence (31:44).
• This project garnered national recognition and enabled further leadership roles.

Notable Quote:

“This was the largest contract ever awarded to a Black firm in the history of the United States.”
– Cheryl McKissack Daniel [32:55]

9. Personal Pivotal Moments & Leadership

• Cheryl shares how her mother intervened (in dramatic fashion) to bring her back from a promising career in New York with Turner Construction to lead the family business in Nashville (36:30).
• The story illustrates courage, trust in family wisdom, and the significance of seizing set-up opportunities.

10. Entrepreneurship, Succession, and Values

• Discussion of the unique challenges and rewards of running a family business versus traditional corporate employment; Cheryl advocates for entrepreneurship as central to the American Dream (39:42–40:43).
• In leading McKissack, Cheryl identifies communication as the biggest challenge for massive construction projects, along with industry-wide concerns like energy infrastructure (41:08–43:06).

11. "Parting the Sea": Breaking Barriers in New York

• When asked about her mother calling her “the Moses of your generation,” Cheryl says she had to “part the sea” of New York’s male-dominated construction industry:
  • “And when this city throws me curveballs, I throw back concrete…I am interviewing to be chair of the New York Building Congress.” (43:30)
  • She will be the first Black woman in that role.

12. Legacy: Tradition and Sustainable Change

• Cheryl hopes to pass down a family culture of closeness, but also encourages the next generation to adapt management styles for sustainability (45:05).

Notable Quote:

“I would like to see my kids disrupt the concept of having one big family, create a more sustainable model.”
– Cheryl McKissack Daniel [45:36]

Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• “A dream is what you make it… it's not really where you started, but it's where you're going.”
  Cheryl McKissack Daniel [07:01]
• “They had what I call the four principles… Now I add the fifth: prayer. It works for me.”
  Cheryl McKissack Daniel [10:24]
• “Young people should engage in a room without their cell phones and with real people because you mature that way, learn a lot that way.”
  Cheryl McKissack Daniel [20:34]
• “It’s not like trying to seek approval. It’s just, here is who I am and here’s who I want to be…Let my light shine.”
  Cheryl McKissack Daniel [24:54]
• “This was the largest contract ever awarded to a Black firm in the history of the United States.”
  Cheryl McKissack Daniel [32:55]
• “And when this city throws me curveballs, I throw back concrete.”
  Cheryl McKissack Daniel [43:30]
• “I would like to see my kids disrupt…create a more sustainable model.”
  Cheryl McKissack Daniel [45:36]

Important Timestamps

• 05:27: Cheryl on growing up with family legacy
• 07:01: What the American Dream means from roots in enslavement
• 10:24: Principles that guided family through barriers
• 14:58: Constructing the family tree as a blueprint for legacy
• 19:39–20:34: Impact of social media vs. real-world influences
• 24:00: Cheryl’s first experience of overt racism and the resolve to “let my light shine”
• 31:44: Tuskegee Army Airfield contract’s historic significance
• 36:30: Cheryl’s unexpected call to lead the family business
• 41:08: Communication and energy as the biggest challenges in mega-projects
• 43:30: Breaking barriers as “Moses of her generation”
• 45:05: Traditions and sustainable change for the next generation

Conclusion

Cheryl McKissack Daniel’s story, as captured in this episode, is not just about overcoming obstacles or honoring her ancestors’ legacy, but about using that legacy to inspire future generations. Her journey underlines the power of perseverance, family, faith, and intentionality, while reminding all listeners that legacy is built every day—by the values we uphold and the actions we take, no matter where we start.

Listen to the full episode for more insights at the Passion Struck podcast.
Find Cheryl online: cheryl mckissick daniel dot com | @mckissickofficial