Congresswoman Sara Jacobs Egg Freezing Choice: Why Authenticity Wins | EP 710

Summary

Podcast Summary: Congresswoman Sara Jacobs Egg Freezing Choice – Why Authenticity Wins | Passion Struck EP 710 (January 1, 2026)

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Overview

In this candid and timely episode of Passion Struck, host John R. Miles sits down with Congresswoman Sara Jacobs to delve into her personal journey with egg freezing while serving in public office. This conversation transcends politics and fertility, offering deep insights into agency, the tension between ambition and biology, vulnerability in leadership, and why designing systems around lived human experiences matters. Jacobs shares the physical, emotional, and cultural complexities she faced, and together they explore what it means to make values-aligned choices in a world of pressure and idealized timelines.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Moment of Choice & Agency

• Sara describes her decision to freeze her eggs at age 31 after entering Congress, acknowledging both her ambition and her dreams for motherhood.
  • “I wanted to have agency in my life and my timeline and be able to make that decision when was right for me, not just based on my biological clock.” (07:19 – 07:55)
• She highlights a second round of egg freezing at 36, emphasizing it as an "act of radical vulnerability” and the importance of publicly normalizing such choices for good policymaking.

2. Physical and Emotional Challenges

• Sara recounts the intense physical symptoms—cravings, hot flashes, pain, and body changes—likening them to “going through puberty and menopause at the same time.”
  • “I really wanted frozen yogurt and cinnamon rolls like every night, man.” (08:37 – 09:07)
• On the emotional side, she acknowledges subtle grief over how complicated the choice became, and the “what-ifs” of different life paths.
  • “There is some grief about figuring out how to balance all this… it's not just a fairy tale... there are very practical considerations.” (10:17 – 11:15)

3. Empowerment & Stigma in Egg Freezing

• Sara reframes egg freezing from a “last resort” to an empowering act:
  • “This is like a very empowering decision where I am taking one of the most important decisions in my life and giving myself more agency about it.” (09:32 – 10:01)
• She discusses values clarification through therapy, the importance of preserving options, and the agency in not yielding to societal timelines.

4. Agency, Mattering, and Pushing Past Social Scripts

• Jacobs unpacks the concept of agency as the antidote to life happening “to you,” describing her push to live by her own values rather than societal “shoulds.”
  • “I don't have to do things the way society says I should.” (15:15 – 15:24)
• John Miles ties agency to the universal human need to matter, echoing how reclaiming choice restores a sense of meaning, especially for women navigating conflicting expectations.

5. The Demands of Public Service & Embodied Leadership

• Sara shares the unique challenge of administering hormone injections and managing medical appointments while cross-country commuting and legislating.
  • “We were literally in the middle of a committee meeting and I had to run up to my office to give myself shots and run back down.” (15:38 – 16:05)
• She underscores how lived experience enhances leadership and policymaking:
  • “It's no secret that Congress is older and maler and whiter than the average population. That’s part of why I decided to talk about it…so many people are facing these same choices.” (17:19 – 18:49)

6. Military Families, Fertility, and Policy Impacts

• Sara details the unique reproductive challenges faced by military families, with higher rates of infertility due to deployment disruptions, chemical exposures, and logistical obstacles.
  • “One in four military families reports infertility… a lot of military service members are leaving the military because they can't build their family and serve the country the way they want to.” (19:36 – 20:36)
• She highlights stories of military spouses facing heart-wrenching choices due to lack of insurance coverage for fertility treatments.

7. Broadening the Conversation: Men, Infertility, and Stigma

• Both John and Sara address misperceptions that fertility is solely a women’s issue, highlighting data and stories showing that male infertility due to service is also prevalent.
  • “Most of the military families I’ve been talking to, it is the male who's having fertility challenges… But I also reject the whole premise that when a service member has a kid, they become a less good service member.” (23:28 – 24:49)

8. Cultural Pressure, Body Image, and Public Scrutiny

• Sara describes the barrage of body-related commentary during her time in Congress, including during her egg-freezing process:
  • “I've worked really hard to get to a place where I feel neutral about food and that I love my body the way it is and am not constantly trying to change it. It's really difficult work.” (29:53 – 30:45)
• She underscores the impact of such scrutiny on young women and the importance of diverse role models in leadership.

9. Lived Experience in Policy Making

• Sara offers a concrete example: after Roe v. Wade was overturned, her personal use of a period tracking app prompted her to raise the issue of data protection in Congress, highlighting how embodied experience generates policy priorities.
  • “As part of that process, I became the first person in House history to talk about my own period on the House floor.” (30:12 – 31:17)
• She and John discuss the necessity of storytelling and human experience in moving policy and breaking abstraction.

10. Systemic Change, Community & Belonging

• Sara and John both reflect on the essentiality of belonging—how building systems and culture around real lives can combat alienation and disconnection, especially with youth mental health at risk.
  • “We need to build community back up from the ground up...how do we humanize these issues… and give us ways to have agency in the decisions being made about us.” (39:48 – 40:08)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Agency & Empowerment:
  • “I did not have talking about my boobs hurting with the New York Times on my bucket list. But that's what happened.” – Sara Jacobs (07:55)
  • “One of the most important things you need to do is… push through that crouching position, push through that feeling that you don't get a say in your life and get to a place of agency.” – Sara Jacobs (13:50)
• On Balancing Public Service and Personal Life:
  • “If they can do it, I can do it. And this is, this too shall pass. And this is a momentary discomfort to get to my ultimate values aligned goal.” – Sara Jacobs (18:19)
• On Lived Experience Driving Policy:
  • “I became the first person in House history to talk about my own period on The House floor. If I hadn't been experiencing that myself... I don't think we would have gotten that policy.” – Sara Jacobs (30:12 – 31:17)
• On Leadership & Vulnerability:
  • “Radical authenticity, radical vulnerability is our superpower and is what makes us stronger and is what enables us to connect on a different level.” – Sara Jacobs (44:39 – 45:45)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Sara’s Initial Decision & Agency Clarified: 07:02 – 08:29
• Physical/Emotional Toll of Egg Freezing: 08:34 – 09:18
• Reframing Empowerment vs Grief/Stigma: 09:32 – 12:20
• Defining Agency and Personal Path: 12:32 – 15:24
• Public Service, Sacrifice, and Policy Impact: 15:38 – 18:49
• Military Families & Fertility Policy: 19:36 – 21:21
• Body Image, Public Scrutiny & Leadership: 27:19 – 30:45
• Lived Experience Influencing Policy: 30:12 – 31:17
• Belonging & Systemic Change: 39:48 – 41:31
• Advice for Future Generations: 42:03 – 45:45

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Choosing agency and alignment in the face of societal pressure is an act of strength—not selfishness.
• Lived experience is invaluable to informed leadership and compassionate, practical policy.
• Radical vulnerability and authenticity are superpowers in leadership; striving for perfection inhibits meaningful connection and change.
• Systemic support for families—military or otherwise—requires diverse voices and recognition of the human reality behind the numbers.
• Every listener, whether facing hard choices or not, can reflect on the power of agency, mattering, and authentic connection in their own lives.

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This summary distills the heart of episode 710 while preserving the tone, candor, and relatability of the discussion. Whether you’re making your own hard decisions or seeking to understand the complexities of modern leadership, this conversation offers both solidarity and practical wisdom.

Transcript

[John Miles]

Coming up next on Passion Struck.

[Sarah Jacobs]

I'll be honest with you. Body image, body weight, food are things that I've struggled with my whole life. And I've worked really hard to get to a place where I feel neutral about food and that I don't have the scarcity mindset and that I love my body the way it is and not am constantly trying to change it. And that's really difficult work. It's work that I have to do every single day. And I hope that that as a society we do a better job of not giving the kinds of messages that I received as a young girl to future generations.

[John Miles]

Welcome to Passion Struck. I'm your host, John Miles. This is the show where we explore the art of human flourishing and what it truly means to live like it matters. Each week I sit down with change makers, creators, scientists and everyday heroes to decode the human experience and uncover the tools that help us lead with meaning, heal what hurts, and pursue the fullest expression of who we're capable of becoming. Whether you're designing your future, developing as a leader, or seeking deeper alignment in your life, this show is your invitation to grow with purpose and act with intention. Because the secret to a life of deep purpose, connection and impact is choosing to live like you matter. Hey friends and happy 2026. Welcome back to episode 710 of Passion Struck. This is one of my favorite times of the year. There's something so powerful about the quiet reset of January 1st, a moment when the noise eases, intentions come into focus and we get to ask ourselves, not.

What do I want to do?

But who do I want to become this year? And if you're like me, it's also.

That stretch of the calendar where you're.

Gearing up for the college football and NFL playoffs, a reminder that preparation, timing and teamwork matter just as much as raw talent. Which makes today's conversation especially fitting. Over the past month, we've been in what I call the season of becoming, exploring identity, discomfort, leadership, flow, creativity and compassion with voices like Susan Grau, Ann Libera, Brent Gleason, Hannah Pryor, Nirba Shahn, David Nurse, Mark Murphy, ollie Raisin, Boris McGuire, Rick Hanson, and Joshua Greene. Today's conversation continues that journey by going into deeply human territory. This is not an episode about politics.

And I want to be clear about that.

And it's not just an episode about fertility. It's an episode about agency, what it looks like to choose yourself without a abandoning your purpose. My guest today is Representative Sarah Jacobs, a third term member of Congress, representing California's 51st district. She's one of the youngest women serving in Congress, and she's also been remarkably.

Open about a deeply personal decision.

Freezing her eggs while serving in public office, Sarah chose to speak publicly about that journey. The physical toll, the emotional complexity, the body scrutiny and the invisible labor. Not because she was seeking attention, but because lived experience makes better leadership possible. In today's conversation, we explore what it means to take agency when biology, ambition and service collide. Why not yet can be a powerful values aligned choice, how stigma around women's bodies quietly shapes policy and culture, why leadership without embodied understanding leads to blind spots and how vulnerability, when chosen, intentionally becomes a form of strength at its core. This episode asks a bigger question. What would change if we designed our systems around real human lives, not idealized timelines? If you've ever felt pressure around timing, if your body has ever felt inconvenient to your role, if you've ever wrestled with choosing between contribution and care, this conversation is for you. Before we begin, a quick reminder. If this episode resonates, please share it with someone navigating a similar season. And if you haven't yet A five star rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify helps these conversations reach the people who need them most and catch the full visual experience on our YouTube channels, passion struck clips and John Miles all right, this is episode 710. Let's step into this honest, powerful conversation with Sarah Jacobs. Thank you for choosing passionstruck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now let that journey begin. I still remember the moment I realized something was off. I was drinking more water, trying to be healthier, but I kept feeling off. Low energy, brain fog, strange skin flare ups. First I blamed stress until I dug deeper. Turns out three in four US homes have tap water contaminated with things we'd never knowingly drink. Lead forever, chemicals, microplastics, even pesticide runoff. And my filters? They barely made a dent. That's when I found Aqua Tru, a powerful countertop purifier with a four stage reverse osmosis system that removes 84 contaminants. No plumbing, no guesswork, just water I can trust. It's been featured in Good Housekeeping, Popular Science, and Business Insider, and 98% of users say their water is cleaner and healthier. Head to aquatrue.com now and get 20% off your purifier using code Passionstruck, Aqua True even comes with a 30 day best tasting water guarantee for your money back. Take the guesswork out of pure great tasting water with this exclusive offer [e-mail] that's a Q U a T r u.com using code passionstruck save over $200.

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[John Miles]

I would like to welcome Congresswoman Sarah Jacobs, a third term member of Congress representing California's 51st district to passion Struck. Welcome Sarah. How are you today?

[Sarah Jacobs]

I'm good. Thanks so much for having me today.

[John Miles]

We're not talking about your job as a congresswoman. We're not talking about politics at all. We're talking about something personal that you have been going through. Can you take us back to the moment when you realized if I want.

The option of motherhood, I need to act now.

What was happening in your life and work at that time?

[Sarah Jacobs]

So I got sworn into Congress at 31 years old and realized that I was going to be quite busy getting everything started. And I come from a big family. I always knew I wanted to be a mom, but I knew that it wasn't the right time. And so in my first term in Congress, in my first year in Congress, I froze my eggs and made that decision because I wanted to have agency in my life and my timeline and be able to make that decision when was right for me, not just based on my biological clock. And then as I continued serving in Congress, I turned 36 and realized it was still not quite the right time for me. It was time to go back and check on some things. My doctor recommended we do another round of egg freezing to make sure that I had as much optionality as I could give myself. And so this past year I did two rounds of egg retrieval, froze my eggs, and spoke about it very publicly, which I will say was difficult. It was like to say it was an act of radical vulnerability. I did not have talking about my boobs hurting with the New York Times on my bucket list. But that's what happened. But I feel like it's important to be talking about these Things because Look, as a 36 year old woman, right, these are the I'm having with all my friends all the time, right? Who's having a baby, who wants to have a baby, who doesn't want to have a baby. And if we're not normalizing those things, if we're not talking about them, we're certainly not going to make good policy about them in the end.

[John Miles]

Yeah. I was wondering as you were going through this, what surprised you the most?

Was it physical changes in you or emotional?

[Sarah Jacobs]

Well, that's such a good question. I had the most intense food cravings and food noise and I feel like I was going through puberty and menopause at the same time. So, like I got terrible acne and my boobs hurt. But then I was also having hot flashes and really weird body temperature control. So I guess I'm not looking forward to that in the future because the hot flashes were really challenging. And then I really wanted frozen yogurt and cinnamon rolls like every night, man.

[John Miles]

My wife has recently been craving Cinnabons when we do it on a rare occasion. But man, we just had one and they are so good.

[Sarah Jacobs]

They're so good. The struggle.

[John Miles]

The struggle is real.

[Sarah Jacobs]

That's right.

[John Miles]

When you were making this decision, did it feel like you were gaining control or more like you were acknowledging uncertainty?

[Sarah Jacobs]

I felt like I was gaining control. I think a lot of people think about egg freezing and like, when I would share this with people, they'd be like, oh, I'm so sorry. And I'm like, why are you sorry? This is like a very empowering decision where I am taking one of the most important decisions in my life and giving myself more agency about it. And that felt really empowering to me. It didn't feel at all like something that I had to feel bad about or feel sorry about or anything like that.

[John Miles]

And emotions are something I love to talk about on the podcast. And you just talked about you were giving yourself agency. But I'm wondering, was there any grief alongside that agency kind of grief for how complicated this choice had to be?

[Sarah Jacobs]

Yeah. Look, I every so often think, what could my life be like if I'd chosen differently? Right. Like, I am very fortunate I have the means and ability to choose to stay home with kids if that's what I wanted to do. And that's the choice that most of the women in my family make. And I think there is some grief about figuring out how to balance all this and that it's not. It doesn't feel the same quite Like a fairy tale story. Right. Because there's like, very practical considerations that I'm thinking about. It's not just I want to have a baby, but like, when and how and if and the logistics. Right. I fly five hours twice a week to get to my job. And I will also say these are decisions that usually fall on the women to make. And so many women are facing these things. But yeah, I'm glad you asked it that way because I think there is some grief just about what different. How different my life could be if I'd made different choices.

[John Miles]

Yeah. And part of the reason I was asking it that way is I think there's a cultural narrative, as I've been studying to prepare for this interview, that egg freezing is like something that's sad or a last resort. But you've said it was empowering. Why the difference for you?

[Sarah Jacobs]

For me, it didn't feel sad at all. Like, I was very clear and I do a lot of therapy and I think everyone should. So I had a lot clarity for myself about, like, my values, which are that it matters a lot to me to serve my community, to be. To. To work hard, and it matters a lot to me to be a parent. And I was very clear on the fact that this was not the right time for me to do that, but that it was something that was important for me to keep the option available for the future. And so to me, it was about preserving options and about giving myself as much agency as I could in this decision so that I wasn't ever forced into a corporate corner where I had to do something at a time that wasn't the right time, because if I didn't, I wouldn't be able to have this thing that I know I want, which is to become a parent.

[John Miles]

Okay, and you've brought up agency a couple of times now. What does agency really mean to you? Is this decision beyond biology or timing? Why is it agency?

[Sarah Jacobs]

I see a lot of my friends who maybe end up with the person they're with when they're 35 because they're worried about not being able to have kids. Right. That is a lack of agency. Or a lot of friends change their career path or change their jobs not because they want to, but because it's the only way that they can make a family work. And for me, it's really about being very clear about my values, being very clear about what I want, and then really trying to give myself as much optionality as I can. And like, a lot of my life is out of control. Out of my control. Right. This job is very unpredictable. We get called back at a moment's notice. I've missed friends weddings because I had to be stuck here to vote. I'm back and forth across the country all the time. And so any piece of my life that I feel like I can try and give myself more options, or I can try and smooth the noise and the chaos I try and take. And this was one of the most important ways of doing that for myself.

[John Miles]

Yeah. The reason I was asking it is because I talk a lot about our need to matter on this podcast. And to me, agency is often what restores mattering when circumstances feel constraining. Is that kind of how this felt for you?

[Sarah Jacobs]

I totally agree with that. And I feel like the times when I feel the most out of control or like the most upset about things is when I'm in what my therapist would call, like, a crouching position, when it feels like things are happening to me that I don't get a say in. And one of the most important things you need to do is right, push through that crouching position, push through that feeling that you don't get a say in your life and get to a place of agency. Because we. We do get a say in our lives. And like, most type A oldest daughters honor student. Right. Like, I thought there was a path I had to follow and that if I did all the right things, this I had to do, and then you get the A plus at the end. But that's not actually how life works. There is no path. And I've worked really hard on trying to get out of this idea of what I should be doing and try and really focus on what do I want to be doing, what is aligned with my values, what actually feels fulfilling, not what do I think I should be doing, because that's what society or. Or whatever told me to do. And I think a lot of women feel that way about having a family. Right. There's so much messaging and pressure on women right now to have a family and to do it early, whether that's all of our social media or messaging. And this was one way that I could break through that noise for myself and try and get out of that crouching position and remind myself that I get a say in this. I don't have to do things the way society says I should.

[John Miles]

So I was recently speaking to one of your constituents, Brent Gleason, who's a retired Navy seal, lives in San Diego, and we were talking about his new book, All In. Did this choice Change how you think about being all in in your own life.

[Sarah Jacobs]

Look, I think it was a big sacrifice to make. Like, anyone who's gone through an ag retrieval knows that it's not an easy process. Like, my body went through a lot. I had brain fog and pain and all these other things that come along with it. We were literally in the middle of a committee meeting and I had to run up to my office to give myself shots and run back down, which is not a pleasant experience.

[John Miles]

Shots never are.

[Sarah Jacobs]

No. And I know that with everything happening in the world right now, I just knew that I couldn't be all in with my job if I was also having a family and a baby right now. And so I knew that to be on the way, I wanted to show up and be present in the way I want to in this moment that our country is in, that I needed to make this choice so that I could be all in on my future family when the time is right.

[John Miles]

And I want to switch to your job just for a second, because you have a demanding job. You've already talked about how you have to fly back and forth all the time, have friends who were in Congress from Clearwater, St. Pete, Florida area, and they often complain about the travel.

[Sarah Jacobs]

But although I will say I have no sympathy for people who live on the Eastern time zone like they do.

[John Miles]

Yes, but as I understand it, you're giving yourself the injections like you were talking about. There was time period where you're going to daily ultrasounds and you're commuting cross country while representing San Diego. What does it mean for you to legislate while your body is going through something most colleagues never even have to consider?

[Sarah Jacobs]

To me, that was a really important part of it. Right. It's no secret that Congress is older and maler and whiter than the average population. And that's part of why I decided to talk about it so publicly and to be so open about it, because I knew that there are so many people who are facing these same choices, who are going through these same things, who have way less support than I do, and who deserve a Congress who understands what this is and is trying to make it easier for them. And after I talked about this very publicly the first time, I was at a meeting with military families and service members, and a young woman who serves in the Navy came up to me and was like, I read the article about you freezing your eggs and I really wish that's something I could do. And that was the genesis of me working to get tricare the military insurance program to cover fertility treatments. And that conversation wouldn't have happened, that legislation would have happened if I hadn't myself been living the thing that so many people are living. And look, it's not easy. I've had to give myself shots in the middle of really important things. The brain fog and all of that is real. But I also to myself, like a lot of women who are going through this, are doing it while they have two toddlers at home. If they can do it, I can do it. And this is, this too shall pass. And this is a momentary discomfort to get to my ultimate values aligned goal.

[John Miles]

I was going to go to the service members next, given I'm a veteran. But I remember my own time constantly deploying, constantly, really under tense circumstances. In my experience, having been in Iraq and a few other places, I was exposed to burn pits and chemicals, other things that have had a long term impact on my life. But I don't think the general public thinks about all these things. And the fact that when we serve in the military, that's right in the middle of the prime reproductive years of trying to have a family, and yet we have all these complications. What do you think about those trade offs that are so quietly demanding of our service men and women and their futures?

[Sarah Jacobs]

We know that military families face higher rates of infertility than that civilian population. One in four military families reports infertility. And it makes sense, right? For all the things you said, right in your prime reproductive care is you're far away from your partner, you're being exposed to dangerous things, to chemicals. And we know that a lot of military service members are leaving the military because they can't build their family and serve the country the way they want to. And it's a readiness issue, right? It's, you know this, right? We train, we put so much money into training these folks. For them to leave at the prime of their career because we're not giving them the support they need is not good for our national security. And I do wish more people understood the real sacrifices we're asking, not just of the service members, but of their whole family. I talked to a woman named Lydia who, her husband served multiple combat deployments. She's an army wife and she's tried 11 rounds of IUI. They've not been successful. Their doctor recommends IVF as the next step, but they can't get Tricare to cover it, even though his service is part of why he's facing infertility challenges. And they've literally considered divorcing so that she can go somewhere else to get the coverage she needs. That's not what we should be asking of people who already like sacrifice so much for us, right? And on this topic of agency, right, like agency isn't just about the ability of yourself to make a choice. It's about having choices, right? It's about having accessible choices that you can then take agency in your own life to make. And right now, military families don't have that access to IVF coverage. And so we are taking away that agency from them.

[John Miles]

Before we continue, I want to pause on something important.

Listening to a conversation like this is one thing. Living it, especially when the timing is hard, is another. So many of you write to me saying I know what I should do, but I don't know how to honor myself without letting someone else down. That tension between agency and obligation, calling and capacity is exactly what the season of Becoming is about. Becoming isn't about rushing into the next chapter. It's about. It's about choosing alignment before pressure makes.

That choice for you.

That's why each episode in the series is paired with a reflection tool Inside the Ignited Life. My substack, not to give you answers, but to help you ask better questions like where am I choosing urgency over alignment? What decision have I been postponing because I'm afraid of how it will look? What would it mean to honor my timing without apology? Inside the Ignited Life, you'll find weekly reflection prompts tied to each each episode. Identity and agency practices tools to help you integrate what you're hearing into how you actually live. Because becoming isn't passive. It's a choice. You practice quietly, consistently, with courage. You can join [e-mail] now a quick break from our sponsors. Thank you for supporting those who support the show. You're listening to Passion Struck on the Passion Struck Network. Now back to the conversation with Sarah Jacobs.

I know there's a lot of sensitivity, even from the veterans I talk to where they say, why are we investing so much money in women in service? And then they're going to just leave to have children. It's. I'm bringing it up because it's real. I've heard it from a lot of them. But my own experience of this is it's not just the female in this situation who's impacted. Oftentimes the reason you can't get pregnant is also because of this, the other side of the equation. And they're deployed, they're stressed out, things are happening and it just impacts the family in totality so this isn't just about female service members, it's about both. But what are your thoughts on that? Because I think we jumped to the conclusion that this is focused on one sex and I think it impacts.

[Sarah Jacobs]

That's exactly right. In fact, most of the military families I've been talking to, it is the male who's having fertility challenges because, because of the service related reasons. That's not always the case. But we do know that it's very prevalent that it is the, the male who, who does have these infertility challenges. But I also think one of the things I find difficult about this conversation maybe is that while I know that it's not the right choice for me to have a child right now and be able to be fully present in my job, I also have a lot of colleagues who have small children and they are incredibly incredible at their job. And I never want to give off the impression or to make anyone feel like they can't do that. And actually some of my best employees have kids at home. Like mothers are sometimes the best employees. Right. They're highly efficient, they're very focused. And so I also don't want to say you can't. I guess I reject the whole premise of that, that like when a service member has a kid, they become a less good service member. In many cases I think they become a much better service member potentially. And so like we want to give people as much agency and choice and accessibility as we can to be able to make those their own choices. And oftentimes those having those choices actually makes them better at their job.

[John Miles]

And I just want to make this real for people. Earlier this year I had a former astronaut named Susan Kiorin on the show. And Susan was the second female shuttle pilot, but prior to that she was the first female F14 pilot. So someone who had to invest a lot to break down barriers to get to where she was. Her husband happens to be a Navy seal and after she got done with that space flight they wanted to start a family and she didn't have the option that you're talking about. So it cost her dearly. She ended up removing herself from NASA at that point so she could start a family because she really didn't have that choice. So I'm just trying to bring it, make this real because you think about the impact and gut wrenching decision that was from her perspective, having a position that is so hard to get. Harder than becoming a four star general in, in the Marine Corps when you think about becoming an astronaut.

[Sarah Jacobs]

And like I hear These kinds of stories all the time. People who have to give up their military career because they need to get a job in the private sector so that they can get health insurance that will cover these fertility treatments, for instance. And look, I don't want to say it's only service members who face these challenges. Obviously, the work of service members is, like, very unique in a lot of ways. Our prime reproductive years also tend to be like when we are reaching our prime earning potential, product productivity years. Right. And a lot of families are facing these same questions, right? Do they continue on this career path they're on or do they deviate to start a family? And how do they do that? And like, why does it all happen? Right. At the same time, it feels like your 30s are when it all comes to a head and it's not easy for anyone. And there's like an added layer of it with service members because what they do for all of us is so incredibly important.

[John Miles]

Yeah. Well, Sarah, one thing I did want to talk about a little bit is body image, because I think it's important, especially for young, but also all our listeners. And body image to me is something that affects again, both men and women.

But as I was doing research for.

This, I understand that there were a number of comments that were made about you and your body during this time, and that had to be hard. First, what do you think it reveals about how women's bodies or our bodies are treated in public life?

[Sarah Jacobs]

People have been talking about my body since I first ran for Congress. There have been so many comments about my hair, my voice. I literally had someone tell me that I should do a ad in a bikini so that men would want to vote for me. And they meant it quite literally. And as I was going through this egg freezing process, as most women do who go through it, I gained weight and had bloated, distended belly from everything I was going through. And I. There were so many comments about my body and can be really hard. Like, my job is to be in the public eye. And as much as I try and ignore what people say, like, it does affect me. And part of what affects me is that I don't want the young women who I know follow me to see those comments and make it think about themselves. And I'll be honest with you, body image, body weight, food are things that I've struggled with my whole life. And I've worked really hard to get to a place where I feel neutral about food and that I don't have the scarcity, mindset and that I love my body the way it is and not am constantly trying to change it. And that's really difficult work. It's work that I have to do every single day. And I hope that as a society, we do a better job of not giving the kinds of messages that I received as a young girl to future generations. I grew up in the 2000s, the height of skinny, the skinny era, where Jessica Simpson was a size six, I think, and all of the tabloids called her fat. Right? Like, those are not good things for our young girls to be learning. And now it's back, especially with the GLP1s and how a lot more people are maybe more skinny than they would naturally be otherwise. And we're starting to see that, like, very skinny, chic look. Come back. One of the things I think a lot about being a leader is that a big part of my job is to show people that leadership can look and sound different than what they're used to. Right? That a lot of people in their head have this idea of leadership. That's Spartacus leading the charge, and that's a very specific image of who can be a leader. And it's not someone who looks like me, but I think leadership is listening. I think leadership can be very different. And part of what I try and do is show that leadership can look and sound different so that we can have more people who look and sound all sorts of ways, see themselves as leaders, and step up and take agency in the direction of our country.

[John Miles]

I want to switch directions to creating policy, which is something. I can't even imagine how difficult that is right now. But I read that you wrote, we can't make good policy if the colleagues around us don't understand how these things work. What did you mean by that?

[Sarah Jacobs]

I will give you a very concrete example. Right after Roe v. Wade was overturned, when the Dobbs decision came down, I started getting all these texts from my friends and peers asking what they should do about their period tracking apps. And TikTok had a whole thing like, delete your app. I use a period tracking app. So I was wondering this for myself, and I started looking into it with my team, and there's basically no federal protections for this data. And so I started talking about that with my colleagues. But first I had to explain, like, yes, we track our periods, and then, yes, there are apps that help us do that. And here's why protecting that data is so important. And as part of that process, I became the first person in House history to talk about my own period on The House floor. If I hadn't been experiencing that myself, as someone with a period tracking app, wondering what I should do in this moment change, I don't think we would have gotten that policy about how we protect that kind of very sensitive data, because so many of my colleagues just didn't do that and so didn't even realize it was a problem.

[John Miles]

And when I think about all of this, something that you are trying to bring to bear, you've been so public about this, which is very difficult given your position. But I want to look at this from a different perspective, which is the cost of abstraction and leadership and what happens when our bodies become statistics instead of realities. Because I think with what you were showing here, you're trying to do the opposite.

[Sarah Jacobs]

Yeah.

[John Miles]

And I just wanted to acknowledge you for that and get your thoughts on how it's changed, how other people are looking at this now.

[Sarah Jacobs]

I think that's so crucial, I can't remember who said it. A statistic is a statistic, and a story is what changes people. And I really think that's true. The way we humanize these issues is what really matters. And that's not to say we don't need people like many of my colleagues here. It just means we need more diverse perspectives around the table to make sure that more lived experiences are there when we're making this policy. And like, I do think the more we can humanize these issues, the more we can take it out of this policy realm and into these real human realm, the less politicized it becomes and the more we can find common ground and agreement, even where we don't think we can. A lot of the folks I work with on IVF is because someone in their family or they themselves have used IVF to get pregnant. And that it's that human lived experience that enables us to work across the aisle, to work and build these coalitions. And I know everyone looks at Washington and thinks that we're just fighting all the time. And like, in many cases, that is true. But the way that we get out of that battle space is by making these things as human and personal as possible so that we can relate on a human level and then figure out how we can work together to solve a problem.

[John Miles]

I have two related but a little bit different questions I wanted to ask. The first is, unfortunately, last year, my sister, who also graduated from Columbia, she went to the International Public affairs program like you did. She died of pancreatic cancer. And as I've talked to members of Congress, because I'm active With Pancan, what they've unfortunately told me is because there is such a. The research has not been able to penetrate cause and causality to improve the chances of people surviving. There's not been a lot of policy conversations about it. So my question is this. And it's not just something like pancreatic cancer. It's like, how do we create better policy conversations without requiring millions of people to suffer first, not just here, but in other areas?

[Sarah Jacobs]

Yeah. Oh, that is such a good question. Because honestly, when we have seen progress, it's usually been because someone in power has had a personal experience with something. So we were able to get marriage equality because Senator Portman's son came out and he realized it was an issue and it shouldn't take. Leaders have a personal experience with something to want to do things. And I think the way we get to a better policy discussion is by creating new two way feedback loops between people and their leaders. And actually to me, this is a big piece of agency. Right. This is one of the key things I'm focused on as a leader is that people have lost trust and faith in leaders, in institutions, in policy and government because they don't feel like we're listening and they don't feel like they get a say in the decisions being made about them. And we have new tools and technologies now that enable us to actually be able to have these tools two way feedback loops and have more people be part of the policy making process so that we can get more of these lived experiences that we don't have to wait till one of 435 people has experienced something themselves, but that we are having this way to hear from and bring in people into this conversation and we can address challenges before millions and millions of people have been hurt.

[John Miles]

Yeah. One of the best examples I saw of that was when this was done for people who suffered as a result of 911 and the ongoing repercussions from that, which my sister was one of them. So there's another area that I wanted to cover that's really important to me and I think a lot of people who are listening this and that is traumatic brain injuries. For those of us who've deployed downrange, traumatic brain injuries are all too common. And just wanted to share an interesting story with you and I promise it's leading somewhere. A few years ago, went to Texas and I participated in a 4x4x48 challenge to bring awareness to traumatic brain injuries and mental health issues that many veterans are going through. And there were about a hundred other Veterans who were there, and Morgan Luttrell and his brother Marcus were supposed to be there, but Morgan was in the process of running for his first term at the time, so he couldn't be. But what was interesting to me, because it's not something that I often talk to other veterans about, but at that event I did, 99.99% of us were experiencing the same repercussions. And what's troubling about this is that it's very difficult to diagnose between the long term effects of TBIs and post traumatic stress disorder. So it often gets mislabeled as a mental issue instead of what it actually is. And I think a lot of veterans feel invisible, misunderstood, minimized. I know just personally, it's led to a lot of suicides for veterans because they're not getting the help they need. But so first, I wanted to thank you and Morgan for sponsoring this because I think it is so important, not just for veterans, but first responders and other people. But what parallels do you see between how we've treated brain injury and overall how we're treating women's health? Because to me, there are like a lot of similarities between the two.

[Sarah Jacobs]

Yeah. And look like it shouldn't take someone like Morgan Luttrell getting to Congress, as wonderful as I think he is as a human, to be, to get us to do something about this again. Like, we shouldn't need someone who's had personal experience and we shouldn't require people who have experienced trauma to have to bear their trauma to us over and over again to get us to act. Right. That shouldn't be how we do things. And I think you're exactly right. It's like things that are outside of maybe the experience of your typical leader, your typical member of Congress, don't get as much attention. And that's not how it should be. And that's not fair. And I'm actually excited that we have a much more diverse Congress than we've ever had. And I do think that it's shown that things are changing. Right. Morgan and I worked across the aisle to get funding for TBI to address some research that we think needs to happen around potential cures. And that's because I represent a military community of San Diego. I hear about this from my constituents all the time. He's lived it himself, and we were able to come together and get things done. And I do think the more young people we get into office, the more people who are have different experiences, the more we will be able to address more types of issues. And we need to fix the system so that it doesn't require members of Congress to have personally experienced something to us actually be able to get something done on us. It.

[John Miles]

What do you think it would look.

Like if we design systems around human lives and not these idealized timelines that happen to us?

[Sarah Jacobs]

So much of our system, right, is not actually designed for what life looks like right now. And one of the things I think a lot about is AI and new technologies. That's something I do a lot of work on. And I actually think one of the things I'm most concerned about in terms of what AI will do is that there will be even more of these technologies, decisions made big and small about people's lives, that not only will they have no agency and they will have no recourse, they will have no way of being, like, seeing visibility into why that decision was made. And I really do worry about what that will mean for how people feel about agency and feel about their sense of belonging. And I think this sense of belonging is so important, and I really feel we need to build community back up from the ground up, that it really is about how do we humanize these issues, how do we conduct, convene, how do we build community? Can be as simple as I tell people all the time, they call me. They're like, I'm so overwhelmed by what's happening in the news. I'm like, go to a local trash pickup, Go clean up a park, Go volunteer at a neighborhood school and help paint the playground. Right? Like, those are the things we need to do to build community. And that's what we need to do to build systems that actually encompass all of us as humans and give us ways to have agency in the decisions being made about us, whether that's by nameless, faceless bureaucrats or an AI system or anything else.

[John Miles]

Yeah, well, I am so glad you brought that up, Sarah, because some of what you were just talking about is one of the most important things that I'm concerned about, which is this whole topic of belonging. And when I think of the fact here in America that 40% of our teenagers are feeling constantly sad or hopeless, to me, it comes right back to this issue of feeling like they matter in their lives. And so I've actually taken on a project, I call it the Mattering Verse. And the first phase of this is I've written a children's book called you Matter Luma comes out in February. But I'm trying to attack this. When kids are 4 to 10 years old, because that's when this whole value system starts breaking down. And the reasons it's breaking down is to what you just described. We have so many adults who don't feel like they matter. So that's what they're passing down to their kids. It's like the immune response is absent. It's getting worse and worse because this keeps getting passed down from one generation to the next. And what you said about these ripples of kindness or ripples of mattering to me, that's how you restore it. And it takes each one of us showing up differently in our interpersonal relationships, in our communities to change this. So thank you for bringing that up.

[Sarah Jacobs]

I love that. I'll look forward to getting that book for my niece who turns 4 in February.

[John Miles]

But I'll send you a copy.

[Sarah Jacobs]

But no, I think that's exactly right. And it's something I take very seriously as a leader. That's why I say that a big part of leadership is actually listening. It's making sure people know that they are seen, they are heard, heard, they matter. And that there is someone here who cares about them.

[John Miles]

So I know we have to wrap this up. I had just a few more questions. The first is, what do you hope women who are listening to this get out of this conversation? What do you want them to learn from this?

[Sarah Jacobs]

I hope women learn that we don't have to be perfect to be successful. And actually that the more sort of vulnerable we are, actually, sometimes the more successful we can be, that this idea of chasing perfection actually often gets in our way. And I know for myself as a young woman, and when I talk to other young women, we often feel like, oh, we don't know enough. We haven't done enough homework yet. Like, we have to have the perfect answer before we can say anything. And it's not true. Like, I can tell you, I've been in all the most important rooms. No one has the answer. And we need as much creativity and ingenuity as we can find right now. And that's only going to happen if people actually speak up and share their voice. And your voice really does matter. And I also want young women to know that you get agency, you get a say in your life. There is no should, there is no path. And I'm working hard to make it so that those options for when you. When and if and how you build a family are more accessible. But your worth is so much more than your fertility. And you don't have to feel bad for making different choices than society tells you. That you should make.

[John Miles]

Okay. And on the other side of this, what would you want male leaders to understand after listening to this?

[Sarah Jacobs]

I want male leaders to understand, first of all, that their experience is only the experience of half the population. And that I am tired of the days of when things that men experience are considered mainstream and things that women experience are considered women's issues. Right. Like, first of all, fertility isn't just a woman's problem. I've heard leaders on both sides of the aisle who will say things like, we need to focus more on health care, not on those divisive issues like reproductive health care. And I'm like, well, reproductive health care, it's my health care. I'm a 36 year old woman. That is my health care. And I really hope that my male colleagues, that male leaders really take the time to learn and see that what they're going through is only half of the story. And it is not just mainstream because it's what they are going through. And that these things that women are talking about are not just women's issues, they're things that impact all of us.

[John Miles]

And sir, one of the reasons I wanted to have you on the show is I think conversations like this can actually shift culture, not just policy. So my final question for you is, when you look back on this chapter of your life, what do you think it taught you? We've talked a lot about agency, but also your own sense of worth. And what would you want the next generation to internalize from your example?

[Sarah Jacobs]

I think for a generation of women leaders, they felt like they had to be perfect and that made them seem guarded and that actually impeded their ability to make true connections with populations. And one of the things I think they like, they really thought they had to be silent about personal challenges, right? That any sort of vulnerability was a weakness. And I am so grateful to that generation of women because it has allowed my generation of leaders to be able to be as authentic as we can be and to know that this kind of radical authenticity, radical vulnerability is our superpower and is what makes us stronger and is what enables us to. To connect on a different level. And I really hope that the next generation takes that lesson and goes even further, that they are not so worried about being perfect and following this sort of should path, but that they know that actually being their individual self is what matters the most. And the more true they are to that, the more successful they'll be and the better our whole society will be as a result.

[John Miles]

Well, Sarah, thank you so much for joining us today. On Passion Struck. I know it was a very vulnerable conversation for you, and I'm just glad we can get this out into the world.

[Sarah Jacobs]

Thank you. I really enjoyed it.

[John Miles]

That's a wrap on today's conversation with Sarah Jacobs. What stayed with me most from this conversation is this truth Agency doesn't always look like bold action. Sometimes it looks like choosing alignment over urgency. Sarah's story reminds us that mattering isn't just about what we produce, how visible we are, or how much we carry for others. It's about whether we feel we have a say in our lives, even when the constraints are real, the stakes are high, and the timing feels unfair. This episode is not asking us to agree on policy, it's asking us to humanize the people behind it and to recognize how deeply personal experience shapes better leadership, better systems, and more humane outcomes. If this conversation expanded how you think about agency, leadership, or mattering, please share it with someone who's navigating a hard choice of their own. And if you want to go deeper with these themes agency, identity, belonging join [e-mail] where each episode is paired with reflection tools to help you integrate what you're hearing and how you actually live. Next up, we're starting a new series called the Meaning Makers, and we're going into an even deeper layer. I'll be joined by Dr. Steven Post, one of the world's leading researchers on compassion, altruism, and the science of giving. In our conversation, we explore his life's work on what he calls pure, unlimited love is a scientifically grounded, spiritually recognized force that shapes human flourishing and how expanding our concern beyond ourselves may be the missing piece in how we think about becoming. Because becoming isn't just personal, it's relational, it's collective, and it's not sustained by pressure, but by care.

[Steven Post]

Freedom means a lot to me, but more in terms of honoring the spirit of freedom, which means the positive version of the Golden Rule, which means much more to me than the negative version. Do not do unto others what you would not have them do unto you. Well, I can get home tonight and if I haven't kicked anybody in the shin, I can probably feel okay about myself. Hopefully not. But if I've used my moral imagination and I've asked myself, how can I contribute meaningfully and positively to the lives around me, then I fulfill the Golden Rule.

[John Miles]

I'm John Miles. You've been passion struck, and until next time, keep choosing alignment over pressure, agency over autopilot, and live like you matter.