David Nurse on How to Unlock the Flow Code Formula | EP 709

Summary

Passion Struck with John R. Miles

Episode 709: David Nurse on How to Unlock the Flow Code Formula
Release Date: December 30, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this insightful year-end episode, host John R. Miles sits down with renowned mindset coach and former pro basketball player, David Nurse, to demystify the "Flow Code Formula"—a practical, neuroscience-driven method for achieving peak performance and fulfillment in everyday life. Together, they discuss how flow is not just for elite athletes or performers, but a trainable state that can empower anyone, from busy parents to CEOs, to live and work with meaning and intention.

Nurse shares stories from coaching NBA stars and collaborating with cutting-edge neuroscientists, offering tangible strategies for leveraging stress, harnessing focus, and building routines that unlock human potential. The conversation is peppered with memorable anecdotes, actionable tools, and deep wisdom—aimed at helping listeners start 2026 with purpose, presence, and renewed motivation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Nature of Flow: Myth vs. Mastery

• Flow Isn’t Lucky—It’s Repeatable: Nurse emphasizes that flow is not a mystical or exclusive phenomenon, but a state anyone can learn to access.
  • "Flow isn't some elusive accident, it's a repeatable system." (John Miles, 03:54)
• The Role of Positive Stress (Eustress): Not all stress is detrimental. The right kind of pressure can be a catalyst for growth and performance.
  • "Eustress, the positive stress, is the nerves you feel before you walk on stage...That type of stress allows you to perform at a higher level if you have a relationship with it that you're accepting of it." (David Nurse, 00:17, repeated at 33:50)
• Optimal Anxiety & Flow: Both John and David discuss the concept of “optimal anxiety”—functioning best at the sharp edge between overwhelm and boredom.

2. Stories from Elite Performers

• Deep Practice Over Talent: Nurse recounts working with NBA MVP Shai Gilgeous Alexander as an example of someone who embodied “deep practice”—continuous, purposeful refinement beyond normal effort.
  • "Deep practice is one of the main steps of flow state...Every single rep I'm learning from and mastering, that's deep practice versus practice." (David Nurse, 15:18)
• Meta Visualization: Tying vision to action is common among the top athletes and performers Nurse coaches.
  • "He also had this vision of where he wanted to go...it's a daily practice." (David Nurse, 15:18)

3. The Flow Code Formula Explained

• Nurse reveals the five components of his “flow code,” synthesizing neuroscience and lived experience (23:37-30:59):
  1. Meta Visualization + Box Breathing: Merging mental imagery and controlled breathing to prime the nervous system.
     • "Box breathing, this is just a way to slow down the central nervous system." (David Nurse, 27:57)
  2. Autogenic Mind-Muscle Activation: Imagining energy flowing through the body to foster bodily awareness and activation.
  3. Bilateral Tapping: Using physical cues (like tapping wrists or temples) to regulate arousal and attention.
     • "The brain-body connection is very powerful...it's just a reminder to the athlete or the person. It's trust." (David Nurse, 19:26)
  4. Cross-Crawl Disorganization: Engaging body movements that require left-right coordination, enhancing brain connectivity.
  5. Neuro-Connection (Purpose): Tapping into a larger purpose (spiritual or otherwise) as a source of intrinsic fuel.
     • "For me, it's God, Jesus, for it's whatever your higher connection is that makes the reason that you're doing what you do more important." (David Nurse, 29:30)

4. Actionable Techniques to Enter Flow

• The TAP Cue (Trust, Acceptance, Presence):
  • Trust: Belief in one's process and preparation.
  • Acceptance: Embracing your current position in life.
  • Presence: Full immersion in the now—release rumination and anxiety.
  • "If you want to tap into flow state, if you can hit those three things and just keep that reminder, that cue of tapping your wrist for the tap in." (David Nurse, 19:26)
• Distraction is the Enemy: Flow is fragile—excess digital and mental clutter is the greatest saboteur.
  • "Distraction is the main one...we live in two worlds now...it takes us away from the ability to lock in the zone." (David Nurse, 38:23)
• Reset with Box Breathing: Use short, mindful breathing breaks during the day (not just in the mornings) to regain focus and recalibrate intention.
  • "Take a one minute break in the middle of the day, doing some box breathing and having some analyzation of how the day went and where you want it to go." (David Nurse, 41:38)

5. From the Court to the C-Suite—Universal Relevance

• Applicability Beyond Sports: The Flow Code isn’t for athletes alone—it’s for anyone wishing to be a better partner, parent, or professional.
  • "All of these aspects that people seek for on a daily basis, this helped with...it's just the effortless effort." (David Nurse, 40:06)
• Epigenetics and Self-Belief: Genetics set a starting point, but one's environment and choices (“epigenetics”) determine growth.
  • "Genetics can also be one of the biggest excuse makers there is. But what are you going to do from that?" (David Nurse, 36:39)
• Routine = Remarkable: Regular practice trumps rare inspiration.
  • "Routine leads to the remarkable. The small reps you do today are the foundation of your breakthroughs tomorrow." (John Miles, 44:19)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Deep Practice:
  • "There’s only been one person that I’d ever heard of before do the same thing...and that player was a 17-year-old Kobe Bryant." (David Nurse, 15:18)
• On Good Stress:
  • "If there’s only bad stress…it’s pointless stress that is going to keep you out of the ability to get in the zone…But the eustress, the positive stress…allows you to perform at a higher level if you have a relationship with it that you're accepting of it." (David Nurse, 00:17/33:50)
• On the Nature of Flow:
  • "Simplicity on the far side of complexity…when you reach that top echelon, you’re actually back to just having fun and playing free. And that’s the beauty of when you know you’re in your flow." (David Nurse, 18:30)
• On Creativity and Presence:
  • "They’re so present, they’re so calm, they’re listening to me, they’re engaged in this conversation. And I think ultimately that's what people want and that is what the flow code is about.” (David Nurse, 40:06)

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Useful Timestamps

• What is flow? The role of good stress (eustress): 00:17, 33:50
• Intro to David Nurse and expertise: 03:41–05:09
• Deep practice story—Shai Gilgeous Alexander: 13:23–18:30
• The TAP framework for flow (Trust, Acceptance, Presence): 19:26
• Description of flow code components (neuro-backed): 23:37–30:59
• Distraction and what breaks flow: 38:23
• Box breathing & resetting mid-day: 41:38
• Application of flow for relationships/parenting: 40:06
• Closing statement on "passion struck" and Nurse’s purpose: 42:22

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Key Takeaways for Listeners

• Flow is attainable: Whether on the court, in the office, or at home, flow is a skill that can be systematically cultivated.
• Train, Don’t Wait: Use simple routines (like box breathing and the TAP cue) to deliberately set the stage for peak performance and clarity.
• Empower Stress: Reframe anxiety as energy—good stress can sharpen you if you build a positive relationship with it.
• Focus and environment matter: Create spaces and routines that limit distraction so focus and flow can emerge.
• Effortless effort is possible: The ultimate goal is to make your best work feel natural, fun, and free—whether you’re pursuing personal or professional growth.

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Further Learning & Resources

• Find David Nurse: @davidnurseNBA | davidnurse.com
• Flow State Workbooks: Download free resources at theignitedlife.net
• Nurse’s new venture: “More or Less” protein gummies for healthy on-the-go nutrition

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Final Thought

"Becoming isn't about reaching a finish line. It's about staying in the flow of who you're meant to be." (John Miles, 46:46)

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This episode is an energizing masterclass in human potential, offering both neuroscience and heart for anyone looking to start 2026 with passion, intention, and robust mental tools.

Transcript

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[John Miles]

Up next on Passion Struck.

[David Nurse]

If there's only bad stress and think of that in your life as like the overwhelm or feeling like you have too much stuff on your plate, it's pointless stress that is going to keep you out of the ability to get in the zone because you have just too much like nonsense. The non essentials really, but the eustress, the positive stress is the nerves that you feel before you walk on stage. It's the pressure that you might feel before you go on to a sporting arena like those. That type of stress allows you to perform at a higher level if you have a relationship with it that you're accepting of it.

[John Miles (Host Intro and Outro)]

Welcome to Passion Struck. I'm your host John Miles. This is the show where we explore the art of human flourishing and what it truly means to live like it matters. Each week I sit down with change makers, creators, scientists and everyday heroes to decode the human experience and uncover the tools that help us lead with meaning, heal what hurts, healing, and pursue the fullest expression of who we're capable of becoming. Whether you're designing your future, developing as a leader, or seeking deeper alignment in your life, this show is your invitation to grow with purpose and act with intention. Because the secret to a life of deep purpose, connection and impact is choosing to live like you matter. Happy almost 2026 friends, and welcome back to episode 709 of Passion Struck. I find that there's a moment at night that often goes unnoticed, especially in this quiet window after Christmas and before the new year truly begins. The energy of the past few days has passed. The wrapping paper is tucked away, the house is quieter, and the lights feel softer. Somehow, for a brief sacred window, the world stops asking us to produce, improve, or perform. Nothing new is being demanded of us. That moment matters more than we think. It's a gentle pause, an invitation to notice what we're still carrying from 2025 and whether it truly belongs in the year ahead. We are in our final week of our series, the Season of Becoming. This hasn't been a year of neat resolutions. It's been a year of noticing where we've been and intentionally choosing to engage life with a little more courage and agency. Last week, my friend Nirbhaan showed us how to transition from a creator mindset to a solution mindset, turning problems into invitations. Then New York Times best selling author Mark Murphy broke down the five roles of high performing teams, reminding us that we don't need to be everything to everyone, we just need to be exactly who we're meant to be. And today we focus on the fuel for that transformation Flow. Because as we stand on the doorstep of 2026, the question isn't just what we want to do, but how we want to live. And that right there is why I wanted this conversation for you. My guest is a longtime friend of mine, David Nurse. David is a former pro basketball player, a two time Guinness World Record holder, and one of the world's most sought after mindset coaches. He's worked with over 150 NBA players, including superstars like Shai Gilgeous Alexander and top CEOs to help them find what.

[John Miles]

He calls the zone.

[John Miles (Host Intro and Outro)]

But David didn't just stay on the court. He's climbed with Alex Hanold, cooked with Michelin star chefs, and studied the neuroscience of peak performance to unlock what he.

[John Miles]

Calls the flow Code.

[John Miles (Host Intro and Outro)]

He's here to show us that flow isn't some elusive accident, it's a repeatable system. In today's episode, we talk about the flow code formula. The neuroscience backed ways to trigger peak performance on demand, optimal anxiety. Why stress isn't the enemy, but actually the gateway to the Zone. We go into the shift how to move from trying to prove yourself to simply being yourself. And we discuss lessons from elite performers, what he's learned from sprinting with Usain Bolt and playing violin with Virtuosus. If you're looking for the perfect fuel to ease back into your routine with fresh energy and intention for 2026, this is it. Before we start, a quick favor. If today's episode helps you find your rhythm, share it with someone who needs a spark for the new year. Consider leaving a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It makes a massive difference as we head into 2026 and catch the full visual experience on our YouTube channels at Passion Struck Clips and John Miles. All right, let's dive into this masterclass on Flow with my friend David Nurse. Thank you for choosing Passion Struck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now let that journey begin.

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[John Miles]

I am so excited today to bring my good friend David Nurse on Passion Struck. Dave, man, what is up? Been a minute.

[Sponsor Voice]

How's life?

[David Nurse]

Oh, it's good, John. It's crazy that it goes so fast. I feel like every year flies by faster and I don't even have kids yet. I really got no excuses there. But it's going good, man. Thank you.

[John Miles]

I can't believe it. Mine are now 21 and 27 and I'm.

[David Nurse]

I thought you were 27.

[John Miles]

I am so upset with my 21 year old not coming home for Thanksgiving. But kids will be kids.

[David Nurse]

Yeah, well, okay, you let them know if you need me to lay down a hammer from an outside voice. I got you.

[John Miles]

Thank you, man. Well, dude, I love watching you on the socials and when we catch up because.

[David Nurse]

Thanks, man.

[John Miles]

Dude, you are always climbing, you're sprinting, you're cooking with chefs, you're visiting remote islands. What's the most recent experience, man, where you felt yourself growing again?

[David Nurse]

You know what the most experience of growth in this past three to six months has honestly been? Starting a company, a better for you CPG Health and wellness company. I've actually got the first iteration that were protein gummies. So this came by way, John, of my wife eating a chomps beef stick and me calling her bluff because I know she doesn't like beef jerky. Then she went on this thing of saying she needs to get her protein in. I was like, who are you? I've never heard you say, say this. By way of asking hundreds and thousands of people of what they do for healthy protein on the go. It came to this conclusion. There's no answer for it. Nobody really wants a glossy beef stick or a protein bar with too many ingredients and too many calories in it. So we created this protein, gummy. I brought together some of my good friends who have all done this and scaled so this all star team. So it's been a really growth process for me of two things, really learning this new space and also being part of a company that's building an actual product. Usually I just go talk, I go speak, I go coach, I use my voice. But now we've got this gummy that's 2 grams of protein per gummy and it's got only 50 calories in a bag. So 10 grams of protein per bag and only 50 calories, all clean ingredients, no sugar. It's the best thing for on the go protein. So that's what's been juicing me up and what's been really challenging me for further growth.

[John Miles]

I love it. I have a sponsor of this show, Collagen Power Powder.

[David Nurse]

Yeah.

[John Miles]

And it's named after a seal who died in combat, which is why I'm so aligned with it being a military guy. But we drink this stuff and I looked at the ingredients for the Collagen Power Powder, but my wife is looking at it the other day and she's. Do you know every time we take this, we're getting 20 grams of protein and we didn't even know, dude.

[David Nurse]

See, there you go. And that's the craziest thing. Like the whole world's talking about getting more protein. The GLP Ozempic, it's hard to get enough protein in and especially on the go and with clean and healthy ingredients. Because me and my team, we just, we were sick of being lied to of these other companies. They're like, oh, yeah, it's all clean, it's all good, it's all healthy. And then you come to find out there's things you can't even pronounce that rip and tear your gut apart. So we wanted to give people a healthy, clean option that's guilt free and tastes good.

[John Miles]

Man.

[John Miles (Host Intro and Outro)]

I love it.

[John Miles]

Dave, you are a man on the go and across the company you're building keynotes, clients you work with, professional athletes, people you're interviewing. Is there anything that genuinely surprised you in the last few months you heard.

[John Miles (Host Intro and Outro)]

From one of them?

[David Nurse]

That's a great question. I honestly think that it's a surprise, and it's not a surprise of just how truly in people's own lives that they are. We often think, and I often think of I text somebody or having a conversation with somebody, but really everybody's living their own life at their own speed. And right now it seems like a lot of people are living at hyperspeed. So for someone to think of, oh, I remember this conversation I had with David, or oh, I should have got back to this text. We often assume that everybody knows what we know in terms of where we're at in that conversation, dance with them. But people like, they might think of us for five seconds, they might just think of that in that moment. But everybody's living their own lives. And I see this with athletes, with CEOs, with just people that I interact with on a daily basis. And I think it's one of the most important things and I think one of the most beautiful things when people can just take that step back, reassess, realign, figure out where their essential is, figure out where their non essential is. And ultimately that's what I call the flow of life. And that's why I think in from what I've seen and people are seeking that and searching for, to just being, you know, a rhythm of life that doesn't feel ultra hurried. Nobody wants that. That hurried feeling.

[John Miles]

I know that to be the case with myself. And you and I have been talking about flow and optimal performance for years. And as we were talking about doing this conversation, in my book, Passion Struck, I refer to this flow state as optimal anxiety. That sweet spot where anxiety sharpens you instead of crushing you. You call it flow low code. Where do you see these two worlds meeting?

[David Nurse]

Yeah, and that's. I like that too, man. I think it's the ability to operate in an attention. An attention state. Right. It's high stress, but it's also complete clarity. So I think that those worlds do intermix. I don't think it's ever going to be the world where you just wake up and you can sip coffee on your patio and things are just going slow and everything just is in perfect euphoric Pollyanna. Just dimensions. It's dealing with the stress, it's dealing with the real life. It's dealing with, you've got to be on, you've got to be focused, you got to be locked in. But then how do you create that clarity? So I think it is exactly like you. You said it's a dance and it's a rhythm, but it's also. It is a tension.

[John Miles]

Yeah. And for the people who don't know you, You've coached over 175 NBA players. Big basketball player yourself, brothers, big basketball name. But I wanted to ask you this directly. Out of all the people you've coached or observed, who was the biggest flow master you've ever worked with? Like, the guy who could flip that switch the fastest? And what did they do differently from everyone else?

[David Nurse]

Man, so good. So let me tell you this story. All right? So it was 2018. I was doing NBA pre draft. Now this is where the college players, they come and prepare for the NBA, and it's just like heightened state of preparation where millions of dollars are on the line. They have to do great in their workouts. Show the NBA teams that they're worth the money, they're worth the pick. And I've been doing this for years. And I'd always ask the players that came in, I'd be like, hey, what are your goals? I want to see where they want to get to. And often the answers are when you want to be drafted in the first round or I want to be an NBA All Star. I want to win a championship. And that's pretty normal, and I get that. But I had this player come in 2018, he was a freshman from Kentucky. He wasn't highly touted. Nobody was really talking about him. He was this gangly kid with just this big smile on his face, just this over exuberated smile on his face. And I asked him, hey, what are your goals? And he looked at me with this smile. He said, I want to be the best player in the world. And I was like. I didn't say anything. I was like, okay, no one really knows about you. Best player in the world. Like, we've got some LeBron's, Kevin Durant's like, all right, well, we'll see. So the very first workout, we try to crush their souls, basically, to see what they're made of, to see if they can take it. And it's like a two and a half, three hour workout. And most guys at the end of it, they're just passed out or going to the locker room and just. It's exhausting. It's like the equivalent hell week. It's like hell week. Obviously not as important as Navy Seals, but that's what we try to set it up like. Exactly. So this kid that I alluded to, this Kentucky kid, after the workout, he comes up to me with that big smile on his face again. He says, when are we going? Tonight. He wanted to do another workout because he said there were certain things that he didn't master in that workout. There are certain Footworks there were certain in basketball there's just like anything, there's so many details, but there's these intricate details in these moves he didn't master is I want to work on these. And I never had anybody say that they wanted to do those two A days. Especially how grueling of a workout these days are. And there's only been one person that I'd ever heard of before do the same thing. And a friend of mine had coached with also with the Nets years before and that player was a 17 year old Kobe Bryant that wanted more. Deep practice is what it's called. Deep practice is, is the one of the main steps of flow state. So as I come back to that story and I'll tell you who this guy was. For example, if I'm shooting bow and arrows at a target and I just keep shooting and shooting, that's fine, but that's just practice. I'm not learning from every rep. Deep practice, if I shot that bow and arrow, I'd go walk up to it, I'd see the angle it hit at, I'd check the video, I'd see where my feet were at, my balance, the trajectory of it. Every single rep I'm learning from in mastering that's deep practice versus practice. And that's what helps you get into flow state faster and more regular. So we do these workouts day, morning, night, morning, night, working on this deep practice, deep focus. And this player last season won the mvp, won the NBA championship, won the scoring award winning and he is known as the best player in the world. And it's Shea Gilgis Alexander, that's who that player was. So his ability to tap into flow I saw from that first moment one, because he understood deep practice. Two, he also had this, this vision of where he wanted to go. We call it meta visualization is where you and it's a daily practice, we can dive deeper into that as but it's even on a daily basis of if you're just going through your day, letting your day happen to you, you're probably going to get caught up in emails or text messages or get overwhelmed because you don't have a plan for it. So this visionary plan for him to become the best player in the world and then he's just, he's got this cool calm confidence about him where he's just smiling all the time, having fun. And at the end of the day the people that I see have this ability to tap into flow state. Steph Curry, I've been around a lot. He's the same kind of way. They're having fun and they're playing their sport or doing whatever they do with a free sense to them. It's fun and free. And I know that sounds so basic, but one of my. One of my favorite terms, and I'll end this question with this, and I think it's really important. It's called simplicity on the far side of complexity. And it sounds sciency and everything, but what it really means is, is when you start something, call it basketball or whatever your passion is, it's pretty simple, right? You're just having fun, you're playing free. You don't really know everything that goes into it. But as you rise up the ranks, there's details, there's this, there's that. You got to think about this, and it can become overwhelming. But at the top of it, when you reach that top echelon, you're actually back to just having fun and playing free. And that's the beauty of when you know you're in your flow.

[John Miles]

I love that answer. I used to work at Lowe's Home Improvement, and Lowe's is headquartered in Mooresville, which is about 30 minutes north of Charlotte. And I used to go to Davidson College when I lived there to watch basketball games because they're not good in any other sport. And Steph Curry happened to be there, so I got to see him play. And he's another one where, when I saw him in college, he was good, but never in a million years did I think he would turn into the player that he's become using some of the attributes that you're just talking about. But whether it's Jeremy Lynn or Brooke Lopez or Steph Curry, what's one specific thing those athletes do that helps them drop into the zone quickly, especially when the stakes are highest? This is something like I even think Jalen hurts does in the big games as well.

[David Nurse]

Great. So they aren't defined by results. That's one of the biggest things that you have to be okay with failure to be able to succeed. So if you're worried about if you're going to lose, if you're worried about if you're going to miss shots, then you'll never be able to play free enough because you'll be aiming, you'll be pressing. So that freedom is a huge piece of it. But one of the biggest things that you know, that I've worked with athletes and that I see that they do, I call it tap. It's literally you tap your wrist because it is the signal of the physical cue with the mental and tying those together. The brain body connection is very powerful. But what tap stands for, it's just a reminder to the athlete or the person. It's trust. So the T is trust and trust is do you trust that the process you are on today, the work you're putting in today, will lead to the results that you want tomorrow. So basically, do you feel like you have a plan and you feel like the plan, if you stick with that, it will lead to where you want to get. And that's the first one. The second one is the A and that's acceptance. Are you willing to accept that God has you at the exact spot in life where you're supposed to be? You're not supposed to be any further ahead right now or any behind. He's got your feet at the right spot. That's a big one. Because a lot of people want to think they should be further than they are when their time hasn't come yet. And then P is presence. Are you able to stay present in that moment without ruminating on the past or having anxiety about the future? And that right there allows them, they take away like it's not about that game alone. It's trusting the process for the goals that they have in a bigger picture. It's acceptance that no matter what happens, win or lose, made shot, missed shot, you know that God's got them right where they're supposed to be. And then it's the presence that they're able to stay present without having to carry the baggage from the past or the future anxieties to come. So that's the best way and just like an all encompassing way of if you want to tap into flow state, if you can hit those three things and just keep that reminder, that cue of tapping your wrist for the tap in.

[John Miles (Host Intro and Outro)]

Before we continue, I want to pause on something important every single week. People ask me, john, I want to live in the zone.

[John Miles]

But I'm overwhelmed.

[John Miles (Host Intro and Outro)]

How do I start? That's exactly why we create companion workbooks for each episode for this conversation with David. The workbook helps you identify your personal flow triggers and navigate the Yerkes dachshund curve of optimal anxiety. Because becoming isn't a destination, it's a practice. You can download all our free workbooks at my [e-mail] Now a quick break for our sponsors. Thank you for supporting those who support the show. You're listening to Passion Struck on the passionstruck network. Now back to my conversation with David.

[John Miles]

Nurse in The book. The person who I profiled on this topic was an astronaut. Turned out to be the chief astronaut, Chris Cassidy. And Chris is a former Navy seal. And he told me he learned this flow state practice when he was going through buds. And he told me, for him, I loved the tap analogy. He uses the analogy of a rubber band. He said, sometimes in life, you're a rubber band that's elastic, and other times, there are moments when you need to learn how to tighten that rubber band. And it can never be tightened all the time, and it can never be loose all the time. And the real key is how do you trigger yourself, which you're just describing, not many people do, of how to make it tight when you need it the most. And he said, helped him when he was in combat. It helped him when he was doing training exercises, it helped him when he was doing space walks, because he was able to get into this zone of concentration that is trainable. And this is where I wanted to go with you, because as I was reading the work that you've been doing, what you are finding is that flow is trainable. You've been working with neuroscientists, mapping the 10 Hz brainwave signature. What broke this open for you? What made you go, man, we can actually teach people how to do this?

[David Nurse]

I love this. So I've always been a nerd for flow state, and reading Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, the Father of Flow, and, you know, is his eight characteristics of flow, and then Steven Kotler's 22 cues of flow. I love it. But I've also thought that there's something more because they just talked about it and when someone was in the state of it, but not how to actually formulaically train it. And I'd interview these top athletes, like Allison Felix, a track star, and I'd ask her, like, have you ever been in flow? I can remember her saying. She's like, yeah, I've been there three times. That's very specific. And like, how did you get there? I have no idea. And then talking with a friend. Michael Chandler was a big UFC fighter. He was telling me about this fight where he could see the guy's feet moving before they moved, and he knocked him out cold. I was like, man, that's amazing. How did you get to that state? He's like, yeah, I got no clue. So I was like, there's gotta be a way, right? So I went on this journey to, you know, find the top neuroscientists who have done this before. Who have trained this flow state. And I found them, they're out of Denver, just phenomenal people. And I was like, hey, can we do a study, get some participants and see if this code, this flow code that we've put together, and I'll go into what that flow code is, can train people to get closer, to be able to get into flow state more on a regular basis and stay in that state longer. Obviously, it's a novel state where you can be kicked out in a lot of different situations can happen there. And they're like, yeah, we've seen it in these brain qeegs. Now, the state of flow that is generally accepted of this is when the deepest focus and this flow, this freedom and fun, rhythmic come together is what's 10, known as 10 hertz. It's in the alpha state. So alpha is between 8 and 12 hertz of the brain. So you're trying to get into that state the most you can possible. So we got 60 participants. We did this whole IRB scientifically approved study. And let me tell you, that is a pulling teeth to get through to get a scientific study approved. And we get 60 participants in, we get it funded. We have 20 of them in the up training of the brain. So when we qeeg them at the start, that scans their brain. That tells you if you're either in a slower brain, so think about more laid back and chill, or you're in a faster kind of type A brain like myself, and you need to calm and bring it down. So we had 20 and 20 and then we put 20 in the control group. In the control group, we gave them Steven Kotler's 22 cues of flow, the highest flow state thing there was at the time, and said, hey, you know what? Just pick whichever one you want. So we go through this study and what we come to find is we're writing this white paper right now, is that the people who are UP training their brain, they brought that presence of the. We did a QEEG at the end, their brain did get closer to overall in the delta, got closer to this 10 hertz. And bringing it from a downtrain situation, got closer to the 10 hertz. Now, not everybody was as high of a delta, which means the change in variance as some of them were. But that's also like in any study that you do, you never know what everybody's doing every single day of their life. But we wanted to give it a see if this flow code formula, which we put together based on science and neuroscience of what can gets that brain closer to that state. So the first stage of it is meta visualization and box breathing. So box breathing, this is just a way to slow down. The central nervous system is 4 seconds in 4 second hold, 4 second breathing out in 4 second holding out. We had them do a minute rounds of box breathing. The meta visualization is what I was talking about earlier. It's mixing the meditation and the visualization together. So the meditation is you on whatever word that you have or whatever picture is in your mind. And the visualization, we had them visualizing something. So if you're up training the brain, you're visualizing something that is more of a faster pace. If you're down training the brain, the visualization is more something of a calm, peaceful morning. So there's more details in this, but as the study goes, but it's a box breathing with meta visualization for one minute. The next one is a autogenic mind muscle activation. And it's just a really cool way of saying if you're sitting there, think about, you feel like there's water flowing from your head, you know, through your neck, through your arms, through your legs. You're basically just activating every aspect of your body. You're feeling one with it. So it's just a calming mechanism as well. The third part, that's for about a minute as well. Each one's for about a minute. So it's an easy one that you can do anywhere, any day on the go. Also the third one is bilateral tapping. Now bilateral tapping is either tapping of your temples to slow it down or tapping of your heart to speed it up. So there's different ways to tap. That's also a regulation of the central nervous system. And the fourth one is a cross crawl disorganization. That just means you're having some kind of movement. Now the cross crawl disorganization is both sides of the body are doing something the opposite at the opposite time. So it'd be like high knees if you're trying to up train your brain. Doing high knees, if you're trying to down train your brain, you could slowly just touch your opposite toe, feel every vertebrae, just something very calming. And going to the opposite side stimulates the opposite side of the brain connection. And then the fifth piece, I know this might sound like a lot, but it's once you do it a couple times, it's pretty easy. You get it in. This formula is just a neuro connection. And I think this is the most important part. This is the part where you're doing it For a higher purpose. You're connecting. For me, it's God, Jesus, for it's whatever your higher connection is that makes the reason that you're doing what you do more important. You understand this with passion, with purpose. And we can dive more into this too. But like the interviews that I've done with these incredible flow state people, the one common theme, no matter if it's Alex Hondo climbing free solo, if it's Shea Alexander, if it's the top coffee barista, if it's, whatever it might be, is they have passion for what they do. They love what they do. They got into it because they absolutely loved it. It's personified, meaning that they're actually doing it and they're not worried about the flow code. And there's some more details to it. But for these people that have gone through this study to get into flow state.

[John Miles]

Yeah. So they're passion struck is what you are.

[David Nurse]

Passion struck, man. That's why this is perfect. Seriously. But it was so cool to see us like when I was interviewing Alex Honnold, free solo guy. If you haven't seen this documentary, watch it. It's mind blowing what this guy did. And we're climbing on his climbing wall out there in Las Vegas and he's just talking about, he's like, I didn't ever set out to try to have a documentaries. I didn't think climbing was an actual thing you could do to make a career because I just love doing the thing and I just kept doing the thing and it just led to this. So they're absolutely passion struck.

[John Miles]

Yeah. What freaks me out is when I watch them when they sleep up there and they put that little bed there with no guardrails. I'm like, it's bad enough that you're trying to free climb it, but to have to sleep out there, man.

[David Nurse]

Right? Some crazy. Yeah, yeah. The extreme sports is crazy.

[John Miles]

The other good thing about living in Mooresville, North Carolina is we were in close proximity to, to both NASCAR and drag racing and I got to meet drivers in both arenas and a really good friend of mine is Doug Herbert who was one of the first guys to break 300 miles per hour and wow. Doug had a personal tragedy where he lost his two sons to a car accident and he started this non profit called Bricks where he teaches kids safe driving now. But they would do these charity fundraisers and through that John Forrest and Ashley Force and Tony Schumacher and others would show up. And one day I was at one of these and a whole group of us were talking about this whole flow state and I was asking them, when you're doing Top Fuel and you've only got so many seconds to perfect your craft, how do you describe it? And almost every single one of them gave me the same definition. They said it's on the edge, but not over the edge. And they said they found out over time is that when they're too cautious, they go way too slow. When they're too aggressive, they wreck the car. So they had to find this zone through practice of how do you go on the edge but not over the edge? And when they could perfect it, that's when all of them said that they had so much success. And so then I went and I talked to a bunch of NASCAR drivers and almost exactly they said the same thing. And I think it's a good analogy for what you're talking about because you have to hit that sweet spot and it's not easy to get into. But once you are, the research is incredible. I saw a McKenzie report that showed even executives who can get into the flow zone are able to do in two hours what their peers do in eight days at 10.

[David Nurse]

Totally.

[John Miles]

Which if you think about that, it's crazy. If you can devote two hours of your day to get the job done that you need to, you can spend the other six, seven hours being present with your team, getting out there on the floor, interacting. So it is such an important skill to have, whether you're an athlete, a doctor, Fortune 50 exec like I was, doesn't matter. But I wanted to ask you something about stress. What do you think differentiates bad stress from flow inducing stress?

[David Nurse]

It's a great question. So I think stress is such a thing that has a bad connotation to it. And it's what you were saying with the on the edge but not over the edge. It's that paradoxical tension that we have to come up against. But eustress is a great type of stress that nobody talks about. And this is a stress that makes you feel like you're alive. This is the stress that makes you lock into the zone if there's only bad stress. And think of that in your life as like the overwhelm or feeling like you have too much stuff on your plate. It's pointless stress that is going to keep you out of the ability to get in the zone because you have just too much like nonsense, the non essentials really. But the eustress, the positive stress is, is the nerves that you feel before you walk on stage. It's the Pressure that you might feel before you go on to a sporting arena. That type of stress allows you to perform at a higher level if you have a relationship with it, that you're accepting of it. And I think one of the most important things for people in stress and just in life in general, is the steps of first, it's the awareness of. So the awareness of is everything you have to have the awareness of. And this essence that we're talking about, the awareness of that stress is prevalent and there is good stress, then it's the relationship with. Now what's your relationship with it? If your relationship with it is all stress is bad, you have a bad relationship with stress. But if you know that you can cultivate the good stress out of it, that's your relationship with. And then the third piece of it is the action from now what are you going to do with it? You've got the understanding, the awareness you have the relationship. Now what are you going to do with it? And this is one of my favorite parts, man, is I love watching sports games at the end of the games and seeing who wants the ball in the crunch time moment. Who wants to be up at the plate in the World Series in the bottom of the ninth, who wants that? That's the type of people that I know, they take action from this and understand that stress, the eustress is, can be used as an igniter for their performance.

[John Miles]

So earlier this morning, as I was preparing for this, I was listening to another podcast episode you did back during the summer. And you were talking to a gentleman who has a brother who's an astronaut. And you guys, since this is an alternative health podcast, got to talk about epigenetics. You were talking about epigenetics. And I think something people don't realize is that we're really all 99% the same. Keep saying so for sure. When you think about that, what role does epigenetics play? And how does our environment shape our ability to get into flow?

[David Nurse]

I love it, man. I think epigenetics plays a huge role. I think there's. First, on the basis of genetics. Yes. Is your foundation and your starting point. A good friend of mine, Rich Devini, wrote this book, Attributes, and it outlines, I think, the 28 attributes that people have. So, for example, I might be born with more of one thing and you have less of it, or you have more of this and I have less of that. That's just our starting point, our genetics. Now the epigenetics is everything we do from there on out to develop that. So it's the point of why does somebody come from absolute obscurity in nowhere and become someone great, does something great? Because they have powerful epigenetics, and I think a lot of that too. Do you have the unwavering belief and sometimes incompetent confidence that you can do it? I think that's a blessing of mine that I've had is just like, I'm going to go try it, I'm going to go do it, let's see what happens. And if it doesn't work, I'll try something else. But I don't really care of that failure piece that, you know, most people want to avoid, of that pain isn't something that I really worry about. So I think epigenetics of people understanding that would do the world a great deal if that was out there more. And people talked about that more. Because genetics can also be one of the biggest excuse makers there is of, oh, my parents were this way, or, ah, I was just born this way. Yeah, but so what, what are you going to do from that?

[John Miles]

Well, that's where neuroplasticity comes into play, right?

[David Nurse]

Absolutely.

[John Miles]

So, based on your research, what do you think knocks people out of the flow state the fastest? Is it distraction? Is it fear? Is it overthinking?

[David Nurse]

I think it's a culmination of them, but I think distraction is the main one. I think distraction, and especially now in the world that we live in today, that is constantly on and you feel like you have to be constantly on. I think it's harder than ever to get in a. In the flow state and just in the flow of your life. The answer of busy is the answer that everybody has, whether it's an excuse or whether it's a truth. I do think that the way you get out of flow state the fastest is if you're distracted, if you have. Because now more than ever, we live in two worlds, right? We live in the world of the interpersonal that we're having on the, like a physical interaction. And we also live in the life of what's on this, what's on our phone. Right. And I think the next generation does even more. You could be in a conversation, but you're thinking of what's happening in that text message conversation, what's happening on that Instagram thread, and. And it takes us away from the ability to lock in the zone. So more than anything else, distraction is the number one thing. So creating an environment at least, especially if you're trying to get a deep Focus work of where the phone's off, the notifications are off, the browsers are off. And I know you might think, well, I have to have them on. No, you don't. You really don't have to have the connectivity of the world, ultimately being your dictator for your life.

[John Miles]

I want to make this applicable for all the listeners. We talked about how sports stars use this. I gave examples about the corporate environment, some other things. How does this state apply to things like being a better parent or being a better partner? Can flow state positively impact those relationships too?

[David Nurse]

Absolutely. And I think that's where the big picture win of this all is and how to train to be in the zone. Because what we saw also not just was the QEEG readings of the brain, but we also sent out surveys every single week for more of the the feeling type and just the state of mind that they were in. And every single one of those ones increased in terms of feeling more peaceful, they felt more purposeful, they felt more of not in a rush. Like all of these aspects that people seek for on a daily basis, this helped with. So I think it's very applicable. And just thinking of it in like a one word or one sentence, a few words is just the effortless effort. And I think it's summed up in that is man. Doesn't that sound so attractive if you can go through your day and not feel like you're just putting out constant fires and not feel like you're just trying to get your head above water, but it's just effortless effort. You're patient with your kids, you're not worried about what your boss says. You just have the sense of calming peace. And I think we see it in these people. I always find it so attractive in people that I'm around. I'm just like, man, they're so present, they're so calm. They're listening to me, they're engaged in this conversation. And I think ultimately that's what people want and that is what the flow code is about.

[John Miles]

And one thing that you would want listeners who are taking this interview in to do today to experience flow, even if it's just 60 seconds. What is a starting point?

[David Nurse]

Yeah, I would say the breathing. Honestly, I think that's one of the best resets. Do box breathing anytime, like, and not just in the mornings either. Morning routines are great to start off your day. That's why there's half times. That's why there's third quarters. Take a break during the day and reset. Do a minute of box Breathing and just think about it like where do you want the rest of the day to go? Analyze the first half of the day. You know what was good? What can I adjust game plan for the second half of the day? So I think that taking break, taking a one minute break in the middle of the day, doing some box breathing and having some analyzation of how the day went and where you want it to go.

[John Miles]

David, last question I have for you. Given you are on passion struck, what does it mean for you to be passion struck?

[David Nurse]

You know what it means, man, I'm glad you, I think this is the best question there is. I love that you always ask this question. For me it is pouring into my wife and my relationship with God. The two most important constants in my life is my relationship and my marriage with my wife and my relationship with Jesus Christ and God. And I have through those two things. Being passionate about pursuing those two things on a daily basis gives me the freedom to not have to worry about the other stuff, not have to worry about where money might come from or if I get this deal or what this person thinks of me. I know I have the two most. I've hit a home run in the two most important areas of life. Everything else, it can work itself out. It's fixable, man, I love it.

[John Miles]

And last thing for the listeners. You've got multiple books, you're on stages throughout the country. People want to learn more about you. Where's the best place for them to go?

[David Nurse]

Social media. David Nurse MBA, the website, davidnurse.com. all of it's pretty much there. I'm pretty active on social media, of course. Check out the new more or less protein gummies. I think you'll really like these. So that's the next big thing. But yeah, reach out, please. I'd love to hear from you, David.

[John Miles]

Such an honor to have you today. So glad we could finally get this booked.

[David Nurse]

Appreciate you, man. I love your podcast. I think what you're doing for your listeners and for the world at a whole man is this. It's all if more people could live passion struck, honestly. Passion struck for a purpose. Think about, think how much better the world would be. Like I say like you go run on that for your political stance. Passion struck. People are going to be passionate. I'm voting for you, man. I'm voting for you.

[John Miles]

Thank you, man. That is my main message. People always say all these people you highlight, I could never be like them. And it's like epigenetics. All it does is come down to the choices that you make to see yourself where you want to be. Thank you again man, for coming.

[David Nurse]

Thank you brother.

[John Miles (Host Intro and Outro)]

That's a wrap on today's conversation with David Nurse. What a powerful way to close out the year. David reminds us that the Zone isn't a rare event reserved for the elite. It's a way of life available to all of us if we have the courage to step into our sharp edges. As we look toward 2026, remember these few reminders. Flow follows focus. Simplify your environment to invite the Zone. Second, anxiety is energy. Use it as a signal that you are right on the edge of your growth. Third, comparison is the thief of flow. Stay in your own lane. Run your own race. And finally, routine leads to the remarkable. The small reps you do today are the foundation of your breakthroughs tomorrow. If David's energy inspired you today, please share this episode Tom let's help more people start 2026 with a sense of purpose and flow. And as we wrap up this final week of the season of Becoming, I want to invite you to join us. On January 1st, we're kicking off the New Year with a deeply human conversation with Congresswoman Sarah Jacobs. She'll be sharing her personal journey of radical agency and vulnerability, proving that you don't have to have everything figured out.

[John Miles]

To move forward, you just have to.

[John Miles (Host Intro and Outro)]

Take the next step.

[Guest Speaker on Body Image]

I'll be honest with you. Body image, body weight, food are things that I've struggled with my whole life and I've worked really hard to get to a place where I feel neutral about food and that I don't have the scarcity mindset and that I love my body the way it is and not am constantly trying to change it. And that's really difficult work. It's work that I have to do every single day. And I hope that as a society we do a better job of not giving the kinds of messages that I received as a young girl to future generations.

[John Miles (Host Intro and Outro)]

If you want tools to help you navigate 2026 with intentionality, join our [e-mail] and for the parents and grandparents out there, my new book, you, Matter Luma, is the perfect way to start the year by teaching the children in your life that they are enough exactly as they are. You can pre order it at Barnes and Noble or go to umatterluma.com I want to wish each and every one of you a happy, healthy and passion struck 2026. Thank you for being the reason this movement continues to grow until next year. Becoming isn't about reaching a finish line. It's about staying in the flow of who you're meant to be. You've been passion struck.

[John Miles]

Now go live like you.

[David Nurse]

It.