Passion Struck with John R. Miles — EP 701

Guest: Henna Pryor

Topic: How to Get Good at Being Awkward
Release Date: December 11, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of Passion Struck explores the underestimated power of awkwardness in personal growth and leadership. Host John R. Miles interviews workplace performance expert and author Henna Pryor about her research and book "Good Awkward." The conversation delves into how embracing awkward moments can help individuals break through self-limiting beliefs, improve resilience, and foster deeper connections both at work and in life. Pryor offers practical strategies, shares memorable stories, and reframes awkwardness as a sign of courageous growth rather than as a flaw to be avoided.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Awkwardness: The Front Edge of Growth

• Awkwardness as a Growth Signal:
  Pryor challenges the belief that awkwardness is a flaw, arguing instead it's the "front edge of growth" (02:45). Most people, she says, don't quit on their dreams at the point of failure, but "at the point of awkwardness" (03:00).
• Confidence is the Reward, Not the Prerequisite:
  Pryor: "Confidence is the reward for going through awkward, not the prerequisite" (02:50).

2. The Epidemic of Avoiding Help and Connection

• Stat: 30% would Rather Clean a Toilet than Ask for Help:
  Pryor cites startling research: "30% of employees would rather clean a toilet than ask a co-worker for help" (06:44).
• Why It’s Harder Now:
  Hybrid and virtual work environments have "underdeveloped the muscle" of asking for help. We magnify potential rejection, and "we've gotten out of practice" (07:16).
• Generational Dynamics:
  Digital natives are not to blame for their aversion to direct communication; "they can't help when they were born," Pryor emphasizes (09:28). Leaders must approach with patience and understanding.

3. Social Muscle Atrophy and the Need for Reps

• The Social Muscle Concept:
  Like physical muscles, social skills atrophy from disuse: "If we don't use them, we lose them" (10:22, 35:27).
• Meaningful Practice Matters:
  Not just surface-level interaction, but practicing "meaningful conversations" is what builds social muscle (36:15).

4. Real-Life Awkwardness and its Upside

Children and Phone Calls

• Pryor shares about helping her son make his first phone call to modify a food order:
  • "He hung up the phone, he said, 'Oh, mom, I did it, I did it.' … In his world, it was the equivalent from a social standpoint of running a marathon" (11:36).

Workplace Examples

• Even seasoned professionals find asking for help awkward, but "It's all in the framing, it's all in the approach" (13:20).

Public Speaking and Improv

• Awkwardness is Inevitable:
  "You cannot avoid an awkward moment... What we can train, though, is the ability to, as improv would say, take what's handed to you. Radical acceptance of reality." (19:00)
• Improv Principles:
  Using humor, resetting, and moving forward after slip-ups are key. Pryor recommends using improv training and Toastmasters to increase resilience.

5. Embracing & Harnessing Awkwardness (Role Models & Research)

Jennifer Lawrence

• Quick to Ownership:
  Jennifer Lawrence’s response to tripping at the Oscars—"You're all just clapping because you saw me trip and you feel bad for me"—is an example of owning awkwardness, "taking the power back" (22:40).

Spotlight Effect and Illusion of Transparency

• Spotlight Effect:
  "We believe people are looking at us with far more intensity... than they actually are" (24:49).
• Illusion of Transparency:
  "Most people can't see through us to that level of intensity... We are not as transparent... as we think" (25:41).

CEO's Pandemic Humanity

• A once buttoned-up CEO became beloved for allowing family interruptions during Zoom calls, which “felt very equalizing… shared humanity” for employees (42:04).

6. Social Muscle Atrophy & Generational Differences

• National Study Data:
  44% of all workers find relationships at work superficial; for Gen Z, it's 52% (37:50). Gen Z reports 27% more social muscle atrophy-related struggles than Boomers.

• Retention Crisis:
  Weak social skills are a driver of turnover, especially for Gen Z (38:15).

7. The Mattering Deficit and Psychological Safety

• Making People Feel They Matter:
  Leaders must ask themselves, "How do they know if they're seen, valued, respected?" (40:15).
• Actionable System:
  If showing appreciation isn't natural, "systemize it"—schedule time each week to give genuine recognition (41:22).

8. Leadership and Good Awkwardness

• The Power of Owning Small Blunders:
  Sharing one's own minor failings in real time models psychological safety and encourages others to take risks (44:51).
• Embrace, Don't Fake, Awkwardness:
  "What I don't want is fabricated awkwardness... But what I do want to see... is just letting their misgivings, their flaws, their blunders have a little more airtime..." (44:51).

9. Redefining Awkwardness

• "There is no such thing as a factually awkward person."
  "By definition, awkwardness is an emotion or a characteristic, and it is subjective" (47:43).
• Reframing for Listeners:
  Say "I am feeling awkward right now," not "I am awkward." It's transient, not defining (48:14).

10. From Awkward to Brave

• Word for Good Awkward:
  "Brave. If you can embody what it means to be good awkward, you are unstoppable" (48:53).

• Advice for Leaders:
  The best leaders model awkwardness by openly asking for feedback and staying in discomfort long enough to learn from it (49:10).

11. The Future of "Soft" Skills

• Soft Skills = Power Skills:
  Communication, boundaries, and public speaking will be the "uniquely human" skills as AI automates hard skills (50:21).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Why Avoiding Awkwardness Backfires:
  "Ironically, avoiding the awkwardness increases the awkwardness. It's the most counterintuitive truth about this emotion." – Henna Pryor (23:20)

• On Generational Tech Shifts:
  "They can't help when they were born, just the same way we can't help when we were born." – Henna Pryor (09:28)

• On Social Muscle:
  "Social muscle is metaphorically similar to a physical muscle... when it's underused, it weakens, it atrophies." – Henna Pryor (10:22)

• On Improv as Training:
  "What we can train, though, is the ability to, as improv would say, take what's handed to you. Radical acceptance of reality." – Henna Pryor (19:00)

• On Transforming Awkwardness:
  "There is no such thing as a factually awkward person." – Henna Pryor (47:43)

• On the Essential Shift for Leaders:
  "Soft skills are not soft anymore. Soft skills are power skills." – Henna Pryor (50:21)

Key Timestamps

• 05:07 — Start of main interview; Henna on learning work ethic from Big Four consulting
• 07:16 — The struggles and stories we tell ourselves around asking for help
• 09:28 — Generational dynamics around communication (“They can’t help when they were born”)
• 10:22 — The "social muscle" metaphor explained
• 14:47 — Brene Brown's influence and the origin of Pryor's interest in awkwardness
• 19:00 — Improv principles and teaching resiliency after awkward moments
• 22:40 — Jennifer Lawrence’s Oscars trip and the value of owning awkwardness
• 24:49 — Spotlight effect and illusion of transparency
• 35:27 — Explanation of "social muscle atrophy" (SMA)
• 37:50 — Gen Z and workplace superficiality statistics
• 40:15 — The importance of actively showing people they matter
• 42:04 — CEO’s newfound humanity during pandemic Zoom calls
• 44:51 — Operationalizing psychological safety through ‘good awkward’
• 47:43 — The essential reframe: "There is no such thing as a factually awkward person."
• 48:53 — "Brave" is the one word for good awkward
• 50:21 — Urgency of prioritizing "power skills" over hard skills in the age of AI

Actionable Takeaways

• Practice Naming Awkwardness: Practice saying "that was awkward" in group situations to diffuse tension and build confidence.
• Reframe Self-Perception: Replace “I am awkward” with “I feel awkward right now” to recognize the moment as temporary.
• Schedule Recognition: Systemize appreciation if you don’t naturally vocalize it to help others feel they matter.
• Try Improv or Toastmasters: Actively seek out uncomfortable moments for reps in handling unpredictability.
• Own Mistakes Publicly: Leaders can model psychological safety by admitting blunders in real time.

Resources

• Henna Pryor:

  • LinkedIn
  • Instagram @hennapryor
  • hennapryor.com — Speaking, articles, learning resources

• Workshops and Workbooks:

  • Companion workbooks for each episode at theignitedlife.net

Closing Thought

Growth rarely comes looking polished. As John R. Miles puts it (52:05):
"If you’re uncomfortable, it means you’re expanding... Awkwardness is evidence that you’re actively becoming, and confidence is not the starting line. It's earned on the way."
Awkwardness, approached with intention, ownership, and a little humor, becomes the signal—not the deterrent—of meaningful progress.