Passion Struck Podcast Episode Summary: "Katherine Morgan Schafler on Control, Perfectionism, and Letting Go" | EP 572
Release Date: February 13, 2025
Host: John R. Miles
Guest: Katherine Morgan Schafler, Psychotherapist, Speaker, and Author of The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control: A Path to Peace and Power
Introduction to the Episode
In Episode 572 of Passion Struck with John R. Miles, host John R. Miles welcomes Katherine Morgan Schafler to delve deep into the intricate dynamics of perfectionism. This episode challenges the conventional negative perception of perfectionism, presenting it instead as a potent tool for personal growth and fulfillment.
Understanding Perfectionism: A New Perspective
Katherine Morgan Schafler opens the discussion by redefining perfectionism. Contrary to popular belief, she posits that perfectionism isn't inherently detrimental but can be harnessed positively.
Katherine (01:05): "Repetition can represent learning habits need to be in repetition, thinking of ourselves as people who are strong, capable, good, worthy, loving, free."
She emphasizes that perfectionism is a power, one that can drive ambition and foster a deep sense of connection when managed correctly.
The Five Types of Perfectionists
Schafler introduces five distinct types of perfectionists outlined in her book, each with unique strengths and challenges:
- Classic Perfectionist
- Parisian Perfectionist
- Procrastinator Perfectionist
- Messy Perfectionist
- Intense Perfectionist
Classic Perfectionist: Balancing Reliability and Connection
The Classic Perfectionist values structure and discipline but may appear rigid or unapproachable.
Katherine (27:16): "You do what you say you're going to do when you say you're going to do it in the way that you said that you would do it. They're so reliable, so dependable."
To prevent isolation, Classic Perfectionists should seek appreciation and share their efforts, fostering deeper connections.
Perfectionism and Gender: Language as a Cultural Mirror
Schafler explores how language reflects and shapes perceptions of perfectionism across genders.
Katherine (12:38): "Perfectionism is a gendered term. Women and men are both impacted negatively by perfectionistic standards, but it unfolds in different ways."
She highlights that while women labeled as perfectionists may be seen as controlling or unbalanced, men with similar traits are often hailed as visionaries. This discrepancy underscores societal expectations and the cultural policing of gender behaviors.
Empathetic Accuracy and Perfectionism
The conversation delves into empathetic accuracy—the ability to sense and understand others' emotions—and its intersection with perfectionism.
Katherine (18:41): "Intense perfectionists have no time for that. And that's really helpful in creating momentum around a project and infusing efficiency into something."
She explains that while empathetic accuracy can enhance personal connections, it may also lead to codependent dynamics, where perfectionists overextend themselves emotionally, neglecting their own needs.
Personal Journey: Confronting Control Through Cancer
Schafler shares a personal narrative about her battle with cancer, illustrating how losing control transformed her understanding of perfectionism.
Katherine (44:26): "When I was diagnosed, there was a really high treatment rate. It was like 95%. And so, you know, there's just a confusing moment."
This experience forced her to redefine her sense of self-worth, realizing that her value wasn't tied to external achievements or control but to her inherent worthiness as a human being.
Self-Punishment vs. Self-Compassion
A pivotal part of the conversation addresses the cycle of self-punishment that perfectionists often engage in, hindering personal growth.
Katherine (54:51): "Punishment is what? That's all punishment does. It's. That's how you can tell if you're punishing yourself, because the goal of a punishment is to create pain."
She introduces the concept of "psychical purgatory," a state where individuals remain stuck by perpetuating negative self-talk and destructive behaviors. Schafler advocates for self-compassion and personal accountability as more effective strategies for positive change.
Practical Strategies for Embracing Perfectionism
Schafler provides actionable insights to transform perfectionism from a source of shame into a strength:
- Identify Your Perfectionist Profile: Understanding your specific type can illuminate your unique strengths and blind spots.
- Seek Connection Over Control: Foster genuine relationships by valuing intimacy and authenticity over flawless interactions.
- Embrace Self-Compassion: Replace self-punishment with kindness and understanding towards oneself.
- Leverage Your Strengths: Use the inherent strengths of your perfectionist type to achieve personal and professional goals without sacrificing well-being.
Key Takeaways and Conclusion
As the episode concludes, Schafler reiterates the importance of creating meaning from within and embodying one's worth rather than seeking external validation.
Katherine (53:05): "Embracing this belief can deepen our sense of belonging. We shouldn't look at perfectionism as a negative aspect to us, but as a strength we just need to learn how to harness."
John R. Miles encourages listeners to reflect on their relationship with perfectionism, urging them to choose joy and authenticity over the relentless pursuit of flawlessness.
Further Resources
- Book: The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control: A Path to Peace and Power by Katherine Morgan Schafler
- Website: katherinemorganschafler.com
- Personality Quiz: perfectionistguide.com
Upcoming Episodes
Next week, John R. Miles will host Randy Bly, lead vocalist of Lamb of God, to discuss his memoir Just Beyond the Light: Making Peace with the Wars Inside Our Head. Randy will share his journey of maintaining positivity and balance amidst life's challenges.
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