← Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Lynn Smith on How to Stop Letting the Brain Bully Win | EP 692
00:56:59
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- [00:00]
John Miles
Why choose a Sleep number Smart bed?
- [00:02]
Lynn Smith
Can I make my site softer?
- [00:03]
John Miles
Can I make my site firmer? Can we sleep cooler? Sleep number does that cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side your Sleep number setting. Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep night after night. It's our Black Friday sale recharged this season with a bundle of cozy, soothing comfort. Now only $17.99 for our C2 mattress and base plus free premium delivery. Price is higher in Alaska and Hawaii. Check it out at a Sleep number store or sleepnumber.com today. Coming up next on Passion Struck, I.
- [00:33]
Lynn Smith
Called it the Brain Bully because it was so pervasive. It's also known as the saboteur, the inner critic. It's that voice in your head that's saying to you, you're not good enough. Nobody's going to like this. Everybody hates you. This is not landing. It is the root cause of poor communication. So the whole foundation of what I do is expose the disease of your ums. So's repeating yourself, rambling. It's the Brain Bully. It's not what you're saying. It's not a power pose. It's not any quick hack. It is the voice in your head that's running the show and has the microphone and it's coming out of your mouth in a not clear or concise way.
- [01:15]
John Miles
Welcome to Passion Struck. I'm your host, John Miles. This is the show where we explore the art of human flourishing and what it truly means to live like it matters. Each week I sit down with change makers, creators, scientists and everyday heroes to decode the human experience and uncover the tools that help us lead with meaning, heal what hurts, and pursue the fullest expression of who we're capable of becoming. Whether you're designing your future, developing as a leader, or seeking deeper alignment in your life, this show is your invitation to grow with purpose and act with intention. Because the secret to a life of deep purpose, connection and impact is choosing to live like you matter. Welcome back, friends, to Passion Struck. This is episode 692 and I am so glad you're here. Whether this is your first time joining or you're part of the growing community who returns week after week, welcome. Over a third of you come back for every episode and that loyalty fuels this global movement. If this show has ever inspired you or helped you to take a meaningful step forward, here's how you can help it grow. Share this episode with someone who will find it valuable and leave a five star rating or review on Apple podcasts or Spotify. It's the single best way to help new listeners discover these conversations. Throughout the month of November, we're on a journey together. A journey I'm calling the Irreplaceables. Not as some big concept, not as a slogan, but as a reminder. A reminder that in a world moving faster every day, the things that make us truly human have never mattered more. Being Irreplaceable isn't about achievements or titles. It's about the way you love your people. It's the courage to rewrite your story when the old one stops fitting. It's the quiet strength it takes to keep showing up when life shakes you a little harder than you were Ready for every episode this month, we're exploring a different piece of that humanity. Last week I was joined by Elias Wise Friedman, known throughout the social channels as the Doggist, who reminded us that connection can still break us open in the best way. Then on Thursday, Aminah Altai helped us untangle ambition from self worth. And earlier this week, Scott Anthony gave us a new lens for seeing possibility in a world full of disruption. Today, we're turning to something deeply human. Your voice, your story, and the courage it takes to use both. My guest is Lynn Smith, someone many of you will recognize from her 15 years as a national news anchor at NBC Today Online and CNN Headline News. But behind that polished delivery in the bright studio lights was a woman standing at a crossroads, stepping away from a secure identity to build a new one from scratch. Today, Lynn is a media coach, speaker and author teaching people how to become magnetic communicators by quieting the voice inside that constantly whispers, you're not enough. In our conversation, we explore what it really takes to walk away from that life. Everyone else thinks it's perfect. We go into the brain bully, that inner critic that ruins our confidence and how to silence it. We discuss why perfection kills connection and why failure is often the thing that sets us free. And how Lynn distilled these lessons into her beautiful new children's book, Just Keep Teaching Resilience from the Earliest Ages. This episode is about courage, clarity and rebuilding yourself from the inside out. Before we dive in. Remember, you can find behind the scenes insights and companion resources for every episode@theignitedlife.net, my free substack where I post workbooks for every episode so that you can apply what you learn. Now let's step into this powerful conversation with Lynn Smith. Thank you for choosing Passion Struck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your Journey to creating an intentional life. Now let that journey begin. If you followed me for any length of time, you know I'm constantly searching for the breakthroughs that actually make a difference in how we age, feel and perform. Lately, I've been taking Timeline Metopure Gummies, and I gotta tell you, I'm feeling the shift. My energy is more sustained, my focus sharper and my recovery quicker. It's like I upgraded my engine at the cellular level. What makes them stand out? They're powered by by Mitopure, the only clinically proven form of Urolithin A, a compound that activates your longevity pathways, supports muscle strength and improves cellular energy. It's clean, vegan, and backed by over 15 years of cutting edge science. Dr. Mark Hyman calls Urolithin A a game changer for longevity. And with Mitopure, everyone can benefit, no matter your gut health. If you want to stay strong and energized now, and as you age, then you have to try. Motto Pure Gummies. My friends at timeline are offering 20% off just for my listeners. Head to timeline.com passionstruck to get started. That's timeline.com passionstruck your cells will thank you. I am absolutely thrilled today to welcome Lynn Smith to Passion Struck. Hey, Lynn, how are you today?
- [06:36]
Lynn Smith
I'm great, John. Thanks for having me.
- [06:38]
John Miles
It's so good to see you again and we have a lot to talk about today.
- [06:42]
Lynn Smith
Yes, let's dig in.
- [06:45]
John Miles
So I love to have people on the Passion Struck podcast for many reasons, but oftentimes I hear people say I can't relate to that person because they were a professional athlete and I can't see myself doing that. Or they're the CEO of Salesforce. And how can I possibly relate to that? Well, you're another person who's had a high profile career. You were today online correspondent, a news anchor, CNN Headline news anchor. You've done all these things and so people might not feel like they could relate to you, but I find you very relatable because we all have these moments in life when you realize it's time to pivot. Can you walk us through that for you?
- [07:29]
Lynn Smith
I think what you're talking about is when I decided to leave that 15 year career, that secure contract, that trajectory, that many say, why would you ever walk away from that type of career? But John, you know this. In digging into people's life stories on this podcast that if you're not fulfilled, if you're not passionate about what you do, it doesn't matter what your title Is it doesn't matter how big of a name that the company is. It doesn't matter what other people think of your career. It doesn't fill you up and you are left with this kind of looming doom feeling feel that you cannot get rid of. And I felt that for many years in the TV news business, it had been changing dramatically for a long time. I'm a purist journalist, and so I'm straight down the middle. Give it to me straight. Talk to both sides. And I really struggled. And I said, if this is keeping me away from time with my children, they're nine and six now, but they were one and four at the time. If this is keeping me from mornings, being able to carpool, them being able to do homework at night, if it's not filling me up, I got to make a change. And so I pivoted, which was terrifying. Which, no matter how many credentials that you have, there is no easy launch into an entrepreneurial journey. It is inherently difficult because the only way to survive entrepreneurship is grit, determination, acceptance of failure, acceptance of fear. And that's a lot of what we talk about in my programs and what I now help coach executives, entrepreneurs, subject matter experts through so that they can become magnetic communicators. And all of a sudden I had this new purpose and I was able to see transformations in people and they felt so good about themselves. And I was like, this is it. This is what fulfillment feels like. This is what passion feels like. And I realized I found my home in my company and what I really wanted to do with my life.
- [09:25]
John Miles
So the podcast name is Passion Struck, and I often talk about creating a passion struck life. What does the word passion struck mean to you?
- [09:34]
Lynn Smith
It's that fire in your belly. It's I get up at 4:30 in the morning and I'm excited to walk into my office with my cup of coffee and have those two hours before the house becomes chaotic with my kids. It's the sitting down. And it's not work, it's purpose, it's results, it's excitement. So that fire, that feel, you can't manufacture it, you can't feel.
- [09:57]
John Miles
Fake it.
- [09:57]
Lynn Smith
And if you don't have it, then continue to search for it. Look in places for where you can find it, because once you do, that's when things start to fall into place. Relationships that aren't supposed to be there fall away and new ones come in. Business deals that you didn't really imagine could be possible start arriving because you're doing something from an aligned place, from a Place of real. So service, helping people. My kids often say to me, they're just like, what is it that you do, Mom? And I, I say I help people talk better. But I also say, you know, I help people. And that's one thing that I hope that we can instill in our children in this generation is find something that you love and that helps people. That solves a problem. That's passion, in my view.
- [10:47]
John Miles
Last year I interviewed Alison Wood Brooks. Might have been this year. Boy, the years is flying by. I'm not sure if you ever heard of her course at Harvard, but it's their most popular one. It's how to Talk Gooder in Business and Life. And I just love the name.
- [11:02]
Lynn Smith
Great title, right? Or Speak like a CEO or Communicate like a boss. Right. Like all of these kitschy phrases. But it's true. Like, our communication is our currency. It's how we get people to be moved by our. Our words. And if we can't communicate effectively and, and articulate ourselves, then we. It doesn't exist. The idea doesn't exist. The business deal doesn't exist. It's all communication. It's so key.
- [11:30]
John Miles
Absolutely. And that's why I love Donald Miller's story brand framework and, and, and really just how that story brand can be used or story in general can be used, whether in a business landscape or just if you're out with friends, because it really enhances what. What you're talking about and makes it real to them so they can see themselves in your story.
- [11:54]
Lynn Smith
Yeah.
- [11:55]
John Miles
So one of the things I, I wanted to explore about that role change for you is just the emotional landscape, because I've heard you say in other interviews that you didn't tie your identity to the role, which a lot of people do. But still, that had to be emotionally taxing for you because anytime you walk away from something that feels comfortable, there's got to be doubts and fears. Can you talk about that landscape and what you had to navigate to make this real for the audience?
- [12:27]
Lynn Smith
Yes. And what you are referring to is that typically news anchors, they have a lot of their identity in that role, that being on TV is their purpose. It gives them all of the eyeballs on them and the validation that they've been looking for. And that wasn't the case for me. I really was loving the storytelling piece of it, being able to serve the audience. And so when I left, I didn't necessarily feel like I missed being on television, but I missed that safety and security of knowing that because I had a contract, I Knew a check would arrive at a certain day, and I knew it would always cash. And the first fear was, you know, I still have a family, and, you know, I contribute financially to the family. So there's an immense fear of, how am I going to do this? I was a news anchor. I read glass for a living. I didn't know how to start a business, open up an llc, do a spreadsheet. Heck, I didn't even know what, like, how to work Excel. This was very simple things that I had no idea how to do. And I explained. Explain that because it's proof that it's not necessarily the knowledge that gets you where you want to go. It's the grit, it's the determination, it's the adaptation, it's the ability to keep going, even if you keep hearing no. I mean, how many times in our sales process. And I know early on, because I didn't know how to do sales, I heard early on, like, oh, yeah, we'll let you know. This sounds interesting. You know, I didn't just walk off the set, and all of a sudden I had a robust business. I constantly faced rejection, but I'd been used to it. I was in the news business that long. You know how many times I was told no or I wasn't good or I wasn't good enough, or, you know, I had to be told to wear glasses once on television because they didn't think I looked old enough or smart enough. And when you compromise yourself in that way, because I did, I agreed to do it. When you compromised yourself in that way, you really reevaluate a lot of things. Of, is this the person that I'm proud of? And so I decided when I left the business that I was going to be authentically me, for better or for worse. So when you see me on social media or you hear me on a podcast like, this is who I am. This is the real me. And I think that people that are listening, I hope what you take away from that is there is only one you. It's the only thing in life in which you have zero competition. So how are you showing up? How are you presenting yourself?
- [15:01]
John Miles
I remember I interviewed Jamie Carne Lima a couple years ago.
- [15:04]
Lynn Smith
Yes, I love her.
- [15:06]
John Miles
And she was telling me her story because she was an anchor for a while, smaller scale than you, but nevertheless, she was really bullied by her producer for her looks. And then when she had her opportunity to take this live new product on tv, initially QVC was saying, you can't be the one who does this you have to show models that look beautiful. And she, instead of doing that, went with her gut and said, people want to buy this product because most people look just like me. They're not the supermodel. But I think it's so hard for us. And you use this term, brain bully to describe that inner critic that could have surfaced for Jamie Kern Lima, but she decided to surpass it. Can you describe that brain bully and how it distorts our self worth?
- [15:59]
Lynn Smith
Well, first I called it the brain bully because it was so pervasive. It's also known as the saboteur, the inner critic. It's that voice in your head that's saying to you, you're not good enough. Nobody's going to like this. Everybody hates you. This is not landing. It is the root cause of poor communication. So the whole foundation of what I do is expose the disease of your arms. So's repeating yourself, rambling. It's the brain bully. It's not what you're saying. It's not a power pose. It's not any quick hack. It is the voice in your head that's running the show and has the microphone and it's coming out of your mouth in a not clear or concise way. And so many times in my career I had something similar to a Jamie, it's, you're wearing too much blush. Not enough blush. After I had children, have you tried wearing a girdle? Because my belly stuck out. And then when I tried to lose weight, don't get any smaller. It was a constant critique on my appearance. Very little feedback on my content, on my reporting, on my shows, almost, I would say 99% was, was on my appearance. And so that inner critic was constantly eating away at me. And I had to discover through a huge failure, I bombed a keynote when I first left the business. And I had to go through that lowest of the low moment to discover what I now teach, which is how to beat your brain bully. Because it is, it's the root cause what held me back in my career. Even though you rattle off a lot of these great achievements, I was held back by my brain bully over and over and over again. And now when I'm working with leaders of billion dollar companies, I am brought in to help them to have a more magnetic presence and to articulate themselves in a clear way so that investors or employees or viewers are moved by them not being like, wait, what did he or she mean? And when I exposed to them that it's that inner critic, they're. They're like, oh, well, I'm not afraid. And I'm like, no, no. Because there's a, there's an ego piece here. You know, executives tend to not want to admit to fear. It's. Yeah, but what's really going on in your mind when you watch this clip and you're stumbling and you're saying a lot and he or she will say to me like, oh, well, I'm worried about not getting all the data in or saying the wrong thing and stock price goes down. I was like, fear, fear. Or what if somebody doesn't like this fear? So it just, I constantly sort of bring it back to listen. That voice is running the show. Let me show you how to overcome it. Because it's really important that we don't silence it. We are biologically wired to have this inner critic. It is, you know, in prehistoric days was meant to protect us, but we're living in 2025. We've got wi fi, you know, we're not living in a pile of leaves anymore. We are going out, whether it's a state stage or a media appearance or a wedding toast. And we're still operating from our prehistoric code. So if we can overcome that brain bully, the results are incredible. We have a lot of before and afters simply to show people that within a short amount of time, once you beat that brain bully, you can show up in this magnetic way where people are just drawn to you and people have to hear more of what you have to say.
- [19:25]
John Miles
Say, I hope you're enjoying my conversation with Lynn Smith. Want to watch this episode? You'll find the full interview, shorts and exclusive content on our YouTube channels. Want to wear your purpose? Visit start mattering.com to explore intention driven apparel designed to remind you you matter. Live like it. Now a quick break from our sponsors. Thank you for supporting those who support the show. Foreign. You're listening to Passion Struck on the Passion Struck network. Now back to my conversation with Lynn Smith. And to make this real for people, I have a good friend. I've known him for 37, 38 years. This guy has a bronze star with valor from his time as a Navy seal. He was the chief astronaut. He has done all these heroic things and yet sometimes when I see him being interviewed on tv, he himself has these moments where he stumbles, he repeats, he doesn't deliver with the punch that you do who are experienced at this. So I just want to make it real for people, even people who have done truly amazing things who you would think wouldn't fear anything, still Fear being in front of the camera, having to talk in front of people. So it's something that I think impacts tons of people. For me, one of the ways I tried to get around it was to do improv, because I felt if you put yourself out there in situations like that, it's going to make it easier. But what I found even after doing that is being on TV in those quick clips that you have to give because you have to.
- [21:12]
Lynn Smith
Sound bites.
- [21:13]
John Miles
Yeah. Whatever you're going to say in like 20 to 30 seconds and have it be very clear, it's still really difficult to do, and it's high pressure. So.
- [21:22]
Lynn Smith
So especially live TV and your brain bull is rampant. Like, wait, did that make sense? Oh, I just stumbled. Oh, my gosh, this is going terribly. And then it starts to sort of meander and you're wandering. And this is why people bring me in and we'll watch that clip and I'll say, what's going through your mind right there? And they say to me, well, I stumbled, and I figured that I just ruined it. And what I find most fascinating is that, you know, I also put people on television and sometimes I'll get a phone call the second they get off the air, and they call me and they're like, oh, that was terrible. And I was like, what are you talking about? I was watching. It was great. And so then we watched it together, and they're like, oh, that wasn't as bad as I thought it was. And I'm like, because the brain bully was there feeding you a little bit here and there, and they're like, oh, okay, yeah. And they start to get it. And that talking in sound bites that you're referring to, that's a specific skill set. This is not something that we're educated on in school. We're taught very tactical things. We're taught how to execute in business, how to, you know, do spreadsheets. All of the things we're not taught. Here's how you can effectively communicate your vision. Here's how you should prepare for communication events. Here's how. Here's how you can drill down your messaging so that people understand it and they're moved by it. And a lot of people still think this is a soft skill, but you just pointed out that impression that you had of the person that you were talking about being on television. That stays with you. Unfortunately, we don't forget that first impression of somebody. And when I started to dig into the research of this and wanted to have some sort of statistic behind it, to prove this, because I talk a lot about how you have three seconds to get someone to like you and 30 seconds to get someone to trust you. So within those first 30 seconds, let's say something really powerful. So they're like, I need to know more of what this person is about. When I dug into the research of it, there's Princeton research that found 1/10 of a second is how quickly our minds make a decision about somebody. So think about that. When you walk into a dinner party or when you got on a zoom call, or when somebody clicked on this podcast and started watching me, within 1/10 of a second they decided whatever they're going to decide about me. So what do I do when I show up in a podcast the second that red light goes on? I'm thinking about my presence because I haven't even said anything yet and somebody's already decided about me. I mean, think about that. John. It boggled my mind. I was not expecting to uncover that. And this is research from 2006.
- [24:02]
John Miles
We've been trying to experiment on TikTok, on what holds people's engagement. And we've been doing a series of eight second long videos where we'll put a quote or something else. And 8 seconds isn't even long enough to read the quote that's on the screen. And we're finding that in many cases people are dropping off in a second and a half. And so we're trying to figure out like, what causes that engagement or disengagement. Because you're right, it's almost like in a split second they decide whether to skim or to invest. And then once you invest, it's then how do you keep them hooked? So there really is something here that plays powerfully in our mind for better or for worse.
- [24:49]
Lynn Smith
Right? I mean, social media, we could say, you know, we're all trying to crack that nut. But is that, is that a good thing that we're so. Attention span deficit? You know, I think that it's just the way we are right now and as business owners, we have to adapt to that when we're thinking about how we show up on social media.
- [25:10]
John Miles
Yeah. So do you have any advice for listeners or viewers on if they're faced with this situation, if they're trying to put out content, what they should be thinking of?
- [25:19]
Lynn Smith
This was advice. I'm not a social media expert, but this was advice I've heard many times. Again, it's that first visual hook. You'll notice a lot of people will like snap around their camera and so that there's movement within that or they'll come and they'll sit down into the frame. It's that movement that for some reason, psychologically the viewer needs to be able to like stay and pay attention. That's a visual hook before you even open your mouth. And I've started to do that sometimes. I don't do it all the time. I try not to fall into the, you should be doing this on social media. I just want to show up authentically and I want to be myself. And for better or worse, I don't need all the likes and the comments. It's an unfulfilling journey to try and reach that million follower mark. So secondly, on what you say, it's are you within those first three seconds giving value? Have you ever thought about this? It's like, what, what have I never thought about? Or you know, this is something that's going to blow your mind. It's those hooks. And I talk about this in television. We have a construct of a sound bite. And the hook is that first three second, and I advise people it's that knee jerk first thing that comes to mind and that's the first thing out of your mouth. And then it's the meat, the takeaway that you're giving somebody and then you button that thought up and land the plane and that's a sound bite. So it's hook meet and we call it the chill factor, you know, the chills going down the back of your neck. And so if you begin to think of social media in that way, just compact it a little bit so it's, you know, reaching that mark of whatever keeps and captivates your audience. That's where I think as long as you're pairing that with authenticity, you can start seeing people say to you, I love your social media content, you're giving me so much value. I mean, I've had leaders of the biggest tech company on the planet just reach out to me and simply say, I see what you're saying on LinkedIn and it's everything I'm going through and suffering from. And then it was a seven minute sales call. People show up already ready to invest in your services. And that's a really big thing that I think people miss. Sales is all about effective listening and communication. If you can't articulate the value of what it is that you serve people with, people will not buy. But it's the last thing I find sales teams are being trained on. When did you hear about a communication training for your sales team? It's sales training. I, I would argue it's complete opposite.
- [27:48]
John Miles
I mean, not even that when I was CIO and Fortune 50 companies. And you're trying to sell a new initiative that's going to cost 200 million or in some cases over a billion dollars to the executive staff and the CEO and then the board. It's the whole communication strategy, and not only how you go about that presentation, but what you have to do ahead of time to start positioning with people so that by the time they hear it in that meeting where you're trying to get them to buy, they've already heard it four, five, six different times. So it's. And they've come around to it. Especially if they were someone who you knew was going to be one of your people who was going to push back against you even wanting to do it. Yeah.
- [28:35]
Lynn Smith
Yes. And that's the key, right, is how are you articulating the value so that they're like, oh, not only does it solve our problem, but this is the right choice. Because there's probably a lot of solutions to a problem out there, and the one that cost a billion is probably really scary to invest in. So you got to really understand what the value of it is.
- [28:54]
John Miles
And I faced a situation when I was at Dell where my predecessor soldiers a billion and a half dollar solution. I walked in 18 months later and came to the conclusion that even if we implemented this whole thing, it wasn't going to work. And then I had it validated. But imagine having to go to a board that approved this after you've already had a $2 billion failed SAP implementation to tell them that we're going to have to do something different. I mean, these situations come up and, and it's all about how you communicate and how you get the message across and how you appeal to the other person's humanity in many cases, so they can see the other side and lean in because that's what you need them to do.
- [29:38]
Lynn Smith
That's right. And connect with them. How do we connect to our audience? And so especially if you're on a stage and you have 800 people out there that you're looking into the sea of all these eyeballs. How do you connect? It's your presence. It's how you put the energy that you're putting out into that room and a lot of people think that's woo woo. And all of these things walk into a room and start looking around and noticing the people that make you just kind of turn your head and be like, who is that what kind of energy are they exuding? Or you walk in, you see people sort of off to the side and they're like, you instantly have made a decision. That person's confident, that person's not.
- [30:20]
John Miles
You're absolutely right. Well, a little birdie told me that on this topic that we've just been covering, you might have an exciting book about it coming out next year. Is there anything you can share at this point?
- [30:34]
Lynn Smith
Well, at this point I have my new children's book that just came out. It just came out a few weeks.
- [30:38]
John Miles
Ago, which we're going to talk about.
- [30:40]
Lynn Smith
Here in a second, called Just Keep Going. But it's all about children's fears because of what I noticed as a pattern with the adults that I coach. I mean, as I said, These are Fortune 500 CEOs or wildly successful executives. And I was like, but they're still paralyzed by these fears. And so yes, at a certain point, no deadline set here or announced, but there's going to be a version of what we're trying to teach children now for grownups. So that when you are facing those fears, when that brain bully comes in, you have a proven method to beat it. And once you beat it, you can become a magnetic communicator, but you cannot fix the symptoms, which are the, the so's, the rambling until you treat the disease, which is the brain bully. So that will be out in the world at some point because it is more important than ever that we beat it. Because it is our currency in this AI driven world. How we show up, our presence in our communication is going to be our currency. It's going to be how we survive in a world of automation and our jobs being able to be done by robots. That's one thing robots cannot replace. How you communicate and how you show up in your energy, it cannot replicate human energy and it's going to be super powerful in the future of leadership.
- [31:58]
John Miles
I couldn't agree more. Well, then let's talk about your new children's book. Just Keep Going. And we'll make sure we put everything about it in the show notes and on our sub stack so people can go and pick it up. But as you mentioned, it just came out at the end of September. But I understand your journey has been similar to mine. And people always ask me, you know, how do you get your book deals? Is it easy? Blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like a publishing business is, is like the most difficult thing I have ever experienced. I have had at this point hundreds of rejections And I. I too have a children's book coming out in February, but for me, yeah, thank you.
- [32:42]
Lynn Smith
Because I know what it took to get there.
- [32:44]
John Miles
For me, there seemed to be no publisher who wanted it. And so I kept waiting, trying to come back to the next news feeds and hoping that the timing would change and no one was biting. And I understand you kind of went through this process too.
- [33:01]
Lynn Smith
So much so that before this book came out, because I think there's a real misperception that people out there that might have a platform or I'm a former news anchor, that you just publish a book and anyone wants it and you just call someone up and they're like, oh, yeah, great idea, let's do it. This was a six year journey from idea to this right over my shoulder. Six years. The first four years were the idea to writing of the idea, to pitching it to rejection after rejection after rejection. And I posted it on Instagram because I saved this letter that I got from my agent that had all the listings of all the projections from every major publishing house. And I put it on social media so people understood the only reason this book was made was because I just kept going. And I don't mean it to be like Pollyanna or anything like that. Like, the idea of just keep going is the only thing I know to lead to success. It's the only way I got to where I was as an anchor. It's the only way I survived the early days of motherhood. It's the only way I have survived entrepreneurship and continue to survive entrepreneurship. I mean, John, sure you've experienced these times where I wanted to burn my business down earlier this week, and I said to my husband, who's also an entrepreneur, I was like, I want to burn my business to the ground. What do you think about that? And he's like, let's not do that. And I needed to remind myself, like, just keep going, keep going. And it was such an important lesson in my life that I thought, why did I have to wait until my 40s to learn this? Couldn't we learn it when we're four? And can't we learn this in the classroom and not the boardroom? That when we are faced with fear or rejection or failure, that we can take one more step or take a deep breath and a moment or jump up and down to get our blood flowing, to get our mind straight, to get back into that game day mentality of like, just one foot in front of the other, that you will get to your destination if you put one Foot in front of the other, if you just keep going. And so every rejection I got, I, of course, felt, ugh, right. You know, that feeling like, again, again. Like, when is this going to happen? It was years and years and years of rejections. And so when we finally got that, yes, it was so much sweeter because of how hard it was to get there. But also, I remember saying to my agent, I said, you know what? I was meant to go through this because it's what the book's all about. And I think everybody can have a version of that. Whether it's a book, it's a relationship, it's a job that you're holding out for. Whatever it is in your life, that's that version of that. Whenever you get that next no. Or you get that you're not a right fit, or I'm not your person, all of those disappointing things in our lives, know that on the other side of that is the destination. And the journey is so much better once you get there, having gone through it. And I just could not now be more proud that this book is out, but could not be more grateful for what I had to go through to get to this point, because I grew a lot. The message is so much better because of it. The story's better, the illustrator is better because I waited for the right publishing house. Everything's better because I went through that. So I hope that can be a source of inspiration for anyone that's listening, that's feeling in that spot right now. The version of rejection. Keep going, baby. I promise you, it works.
- [36:45]
John Miles
Yeah, I mean, I've got two great illustrations of this. One comes from another astronaut. Her name is Wendy Lawrence. Wendy was the first Naval Academy graduate in space. And I met her because she was my physics teacher when it was announced she was becoming an astronaut. And her key message to kids is that so many people today give up on their dreams so quickly when they hit the first obstacle that comes their way. And it's typically, it's school. They can't get through the science courses or the math courses. And she talks about herself going to MIT and facing a situation where she almost failed out and having to double down on her dream of becoming an astronaut to do the work that allowed her to succeed. I think another good example is I interviewed a gentleman, Harry Buddha Magar, who was a Gurkha soldier fighting in Afghanistan, stepped on an ied, thought his life was over. And then he looked into his son's eyes at the way he was living his life, and he said, I need to inspire others. And he became the first double amputee above the knee to climb Mount Everest. And he said the same thing to me that you were talking about. And as he was going up the mountain, there were so many times that he wanted to quit. And he just kept telling himself, you got to keep going. This is bigger than you. You're serving all these people who have disabilities around the world, trying to show them that anything is possible if you put your mind to it. So I love the message. Lynn, thank you for the people who can't see what's behind your shoulder. Just keep going has a beautiful illustration of a mouse in between the words. What does that mouse character represent to you personally?
- [38:30]
Lynn Smith
So the three words just keep going came from a text message that I got from a very close friend of mine when I was going through an incred hard time in my life in my early 30s. And she just texted me, just keep going. And it wasn't, you're going to be okay. It wasn't, you're fine. None of those things help. That really helped. And we wanted it to be a mouse because it's like that little mighty mouse. It's like the little one that could and it represents there's a mouse in all of us. There are times in our lives where we just need that reminder from a friend. Friend. And then in the book, those friends are in the form of a deer and a bird and an owl and a butterfly, and they encounter mouse along his journey to where he's trying to go. And they are the reminder to just keep going. Because mouse is scared. Mouse has big feelings. Mouse is afraid he's gonna fail. He's frustrated. And each time he has that friend that reminds him, have you tried this? Take a deep breath in and a deep breath out and just keep going. And mouse finally gets to his destination and realizes, oh, all of these things got me here. And when I wrote this book, the first person I read it to, of course, was my six and nine year old. And my six year old, after he started school, came home and he said, mom, can we bring your book to class? And I was like, why? And he said, well, George just started school and I think he's scared. He's new to this school and I think he's scared and he needs your book. And I thought, you're being an owl, you're being a deer. So if we're not in the time where we're a mouse and we need the reminder, then be the owl and be the reminder for that person. In your life that's going through something really hard and remind them to just keep going. So this book is as much for the parent or the leader that's reading it to the child, whether it's their child or niece, nephew, whomever it may be. It's as much of a reminder for that person reading the book that sometimes you just need to put one foot in front of the other and that your fear is not something that's going to disappear. Courage is doing something in spite of fear. And that brave isn't something that you inherently are, it's something that you choose to do. And that's the real point of this book that I hope resonates with whoever picks it up.
- [40:46]
John Miles
And I also noticed that you even brought in mindfulness. There's this spread where it's got mouse and a butterfly and they stop, pause and breathe together and you say it all in comes all the good and outflows out of the bad. Why was it important to bring things like that into the book?
- [41:06]
Lynn Smith
So mindfulness is so key to us as adults. We know how our breathing impacts our nervous system and we know visualization, which I use a lot in my coaching, picturing the audience, picturing the interactions that you're going to have, visualize the energy, those types of tools that I give my executives. I thought, well, why aren't we learning this at such a young age? And the breathe in and breathe out at the very end of the book was a really special spread for me. In addition to the point that you're talking about where the butterfly and mouse breathe in and out at the very end, Moon is trying to soothe mouse because he, his mind is racing and it came from the evenings in our house with two boys, as you can imagine is pretty chaotic. They get the zoomies where they're running all around and. And I've got a very big feeling child. So what we did every night was we did take a deep breath in and a deep breath out. Take a deep breath in, take a deep breath out. I mean, even just hearing that, you start to feel this calm. And it's so essential, I think that children learn not to bottle their emotions, but how to manage their emotions because they're going to be so all over the place. I had my 6 year old yesterday who was just melting down. There was no consoling him. And so I just sat with him and I was like, oh, this must be really disappointing. This is disappointing. And that's okay. Sometimes we're going to be disappointed. And I think so quickly as parents, we just want to fix everything. Okay. What he was upset about is that nobody on his team picked the name he wanted to pick. Right. This is what sends us into a tailspin at six. So he was like, it's been two years and nobody picks my name. And so what do we do? We don't call up the coach and say, you know what? My son wants his name to be chosen. Can we do something about that? No. It was. I just sat with him and I was like, let's take a deep breath. Gosh, that must be really disappointing. Sometimes we're really disappointed. That's hard. And they learn that not everything goes away. Our rejections from those publishers, it was really disappointing. There wasn't anything somebody could say to make that not be disappointing. But as grownups, we learn, hopefully. And there's a lot of learning to be done for all of us still. But hopefully we learn to manage those emotions and calm ourselves in our disappointments. Why aren't we learning this as kids? And so my hope is that this is one tool to be able to do that.
- [43:39]
John Miles
Yeah. I'm not sure about you, but for me, I almost found it harder to write a children's book than I did a non fiction book. And the reason why is you have so few words that you can play with that the imagery has to convey so much of the messaging. And so as I was working with my illustrator and. And I think my journey to finding one was similar to yours, I probably interviewed like 16 of them. But I found that in working with her, I had to really articulate what I wanted her to capture in the images to supplement what was in the words. Because I think oftentimes kids learn actually more from what they see than the words that are on the page. Did you find the same thing when you were writing it?
- [44:26]
Lynn Smith
Here's what's very interesting that I did not expect. So Sourcebooks Kids is my publisher, and they were my finally. Yes. And this is apparently because I've talked to other authors. Publishers do not want the author to select or meet with the illustrator. So I never knew who they were going to choose, nor did I get any input on the illustrations. And it's because they don't want the author to influence the artistic vision of the illustrator. And I thought that was brilliant. And because I trusted Sourcebook's Kids so much, I was able to let go and say, you know what? This book is in the universe. It found its home in this publishing house for a reason. And when they showed me Lauren Gallegos who's our publisher or who's our illustrator? I was blown away because it is very challenging to visualize movement in emotion with art. And a true artist does that. And that's what Lauren did. The energy that's around Mouse when he's really anxious is sort of this black cloud that has these jagged edges. And then when he takes those deep breaths, his ears come up and then they come down and looks like they're moving. It's whimsical and magical and everything that I dreamed of. But I found it so interesting that they went through that process separating the illustrator and the author up until the end.
- [45:54]
John Miles
So.
- [45:54]
Lynn Smith
So once I finally met her, the book was done. So it is such a different process than what I had been expecting, because I would have loved to meet with 16 different illustrators and be that type a control freak that I am to pick the perfect illustrator and then tell them exactly what I'm envisioning. But I can say the illustrations would have never even been in the vicinity of what they ended up to be had it not been for that separation of word art and illustration art. And the 40 pages that you're talking about was additionally challenging for me because I'm conveying a very complicated topic. It's even complicated for us as adults of resiliency, grit, courage, bravery. Like it's a hard thing for us to define. So it was. I mean, it took draft after draft after draft for us to drill that down to something that a 6 year old could say, George needs this because he's scared. That was the real challenge. And it took years. I mean, this. Once it was bought, it took two years to finalize and get to print.
- [46:59]
John Miles
Your experience was a lot different than mine because I ended up interviewing all my artists. And then she and I worked on it for six months together, all the way from black and white illustrations to the final colored ones, just trying to match the vision with what she was producing. But I had. Yeah.
- [47:19]
Lynn Smith
When does it come out?
- [47:21]
John Miles
It comes out February 24th.
- [47:23]
Lynn Smith
Oh, I can't wait.
- [47:24]
John Miles
And mine features a bunny, but what is the main character? But what I found was that often because she's illustrated so many books, she was guiding me about why we didn't want to do things that in my head I thought we would want to do because I was trying to make it too complex anyway. I think oftentimes when you bring a kid's book out like this, you're trying to influence the parents or teachers as much as you are the children who are reading the book. Because I think you can subliminally teach the parents resilience and self worth or at least cue them in that these are important topics that outside of the book, you need to keep reinforcing with your children. Was that something in the back of your mind you were hoping to do?
- [48:12]
Lynn Smith
Of course. Because my job is to help leaders become more confident. And if they're more confident, they communicate better. Right. Well, what is confidence? Because it's such an overused term, in my opinion. Well, confidence is the true belief that you can do anything despite any circumstances. Arrogance is just thinking that you're good at everything. And so that idea of resiliency that even if you flopped a keynote like I did, or even if you bomb your TV interview, that if you just keep going, you get the skill set to get better and then be great on television or not bomb a keynote like I now don't bomb a keynote. Knock on wood. But that idea was very important to be married with the relationship that you have with your child. Because I now share stories with my children about when I didn't make the team or when a friend didn't invite me somewhere and I saw all of my other friends had been invited somewhere so. So that they can see a mirror to their emotions that we as parents face rejection. I was so honest with my kids about how many rejections that I got for this book. And now they're all the more proud of it because they know how hard it took for me to get there. And so as I'm going to school visits or libraries, I'm doing a lot of in store readings. I have parents coming up to me and they're like, I can't tell you how much I needed this message today because they're going through some version of a need to just keep going. And there's a really hard, challenging world that we all are living in. And three words is not the answer to the challenges that we're having, but it can be a tool that we use in order to navigate these really challenging times. And we've put together a parent and educator free guide, and it was intended to be a conversation continuer. Once people read the book that they were able to download this guide and there are conversation prompts with your children. What does it mean to be brave? Is there a time that you've been brave before? What does courage mean? How can you be the friend? And then at the end, there's a worry journal, which we started with my children, from a parenting expert that I interviewed on the podcast that I hosted and it was all the idea of writing down, like we journal as adults, but we never talk to our kids about journaling a lot. Right. I mean, some people may. It wasn't something I thought of. So the worry journal is a way for them to take all of those worries, the brain bully thoughts, and put them down onto paper so that they're not clouding their mind. And so sort of a version of a beat your brain bully, but for our children. So we made that a free resource on our website and we wanted it to be something that continues the conversation well after bedtime, that it was just the beginning, this book is just the start.
- [51:00]
John Miles
Lynn, thanks for sharing that. And one of the things that I have found that really propelled me into writing my book, and I think it plays into you writing yours, is how often children internalize perfectionism, that they're not enough. I saw this in both my kids, but especially my daughter, she was growing up. And I think we have this situation going on where so many adults today have grown up internalizing perfectionism. And then it leads to them as adults or teens, because 42% of all teens now are facing mental health issues. They grow up in this achievement culture, and then they themselves are then feeding this to their kids. And so we have this perpetuating cycle. How much did it play in your role to try to rewrite the cultural script?
- [51:49]
Lynn Smith
I'm so glad that you asked about perfectionism, because so often the executives that I work with, they're not paralyzed only by their fear. They're paralyzed by the fear of not living up to perfectionism, which actually will always be the case because we can't be perfect. And when I knew as a recovering perfectionist that it wouldn't serve me, that connection doesn't happen from perfection. It happens from being human. And when I saw this pattern of not only was I experiencing it, but all of these high achievers and successful people were held back by the perfectionism. I realized, well, why is that? When we are young, from a very young age, we are scored, we are told to get great grades, we are told to get first place. I mean, go to a soccer game for a nine year old, I mean, these parents are going bananas. You'd think it's like the World cup final finals. So imagine you're nine and you're playing in this game and you see parents losing their mind if something like a ball has been kicked and it didn't make the goal. And you're thinking to yourself, like, what pressure that must put on a kid to be Perfect and get the goal and always win and always get A's. And it's become way more than. I was born in the late 70s. So when it was the 90s and I was in school, there was, you know, like, get good grades. But my mom was like, just don't get Cs. I'm like, okay, now it's if you don't get a plus 4.75, you're not going to go to college. That kind of pressure. Then they get to college and they're already burnt out. Like, why do we think there's such a mental health crisis? Not only are we burning out our kids so young, but we're then sticking social media in front of them to hold a mirror of perfectionism that everybody is pretending to have the great lifestyle and the private jet vacations and all of that. So it's like the perfect storm of a failed experiment of this hustle culture. If we can begin to have a greater conversation, which I think that we are in so many other ways, we're starting to realize that this is not achievable. But if our children can learn at a very young age that failure is inevitable. And actually it's exciting. Exciting because when you fail, you've learned something and then you're one step closer to not failing and succeeding. And you know, when there's a lost game instead of, you're gonna win next time. It's. It was so fun to watch you. That must be disappointing that we didn't win, but it was so fun to watch you. And that idea of like, okay, Mom's not disappointed that I didn't win if I didn't make the team. Mom didn't make the team. She did. Okay. It's. How can we be this mirror to our kids that we're not trying to be perfect and therefore they don't have to attempt to do something that's setting them up for failure in the first place. Because perfection is impossible. Just not going to get there.
- [54:51]
John Miles
Lynn, you and I have talked about a lot today, and there's so much more that I'm sure people want to learn about you. Where are the best places for them to learn about your coaching programs? The book, everything that you do for.
- [55:04]
Lynn Smith
The book, especially for the educator and parent guide, you can go to just keep going book dot com. All of the information's on there. We also have some free coloring pages for your little ones. And then all of my executive coaching is just Lynn Smith.com and then I'm also on all social medias at Lynn Smith tv. So I hope to connect with you. DM me, talk to me, tell me what you're experiencing because a lot of these things I'm going to be putting into this book that's going to be coming that hopefully John, I join you on your podcast again in 2026.
- [55:36]
John Miles
Awesome. Well Lynn, it was such an honor to have you. So glad we could do this. Thank you so much for joining.
- [55:41]
Lynn Smith
Same and congratulations on your book. I cannot wait to get it in February. What's the title?
- [55:46]
John Miles
You Matter Luma.
- [55:48]
Lynn Smith
Oh I love that. I can't wait to share it with my kids.
- [55:54]
John Miles
Awesome. Thank you.
- [55:55]
Lynn Smith
Thank you John.
- [55:56]
John Miles
That's a wrap on today's inspiring conversation with Lynn Smith and I hope it left you thinking differently about your own story, your confidence and the voice you bring into the world. Here are a few reminders worth carrying with you. First, walking away from a secure identity takes courage, but it also creates possibility. Second, the brain bully is real and learning to quiet it is the gateway to authentic communication. Third, confidence grows from repetition, alignment and allowing yourself to be imperfect. And resilience isn't something we outgrow, it's something we teach, share and renew. Just like Lynn does in her beautiful children's book. Just keep going. If today's episode resonated, take 60 seconds to leave a five star review on Apple or Spotify. It's the most powerful way to help new listeners discover these conversations. Want to go deeper? Join me@theignitedlife.net for weekly insights, workbooks and behind the scenes tools on intentional living. Subscribe to Passion Struck and join our YouTube channels for full episodes, shorts and bonus content. And visit start mattering.com to wear your purpose and remind yourself daily that you matter. Next week we continue the Irreplaceables with an extraordinary conversation that I did in person with Jane Chen, co founder of Embrace Innovations, whose low cost infant warmer has saved over 400,000 premature babies. We'll explore the emotional resilience behind world changing innovation, how heartbreak became our purpose, and why human compassion remains our greatest catalyst for change.
- [57:29]
Lynn Smith
I finally connected the dots feeling so powerless through my childhood. That's what had driven me to want to to help the most powerless people in the world. I had not made that connection before, so my pain had become my purpose. But it was also my shadow because it led me to working in very unhealthy ways. As I said to the point of just complete burnout. Because I also believed that my worth depended on what I achieved. So it wasn't just like the passion and the urgency. But there was this whole thing where my worthiness and sense of enoughness was tangled up in achievement.
- [58:14]
John Miles
Until then, remember, to matter is to be seen. To be seen is to be known, and every revolution begins with one intentional act of paying deeper attention. I'm John Miles and you've been passion struck.
- [58:39]
Lynn Smith
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