Passion Struck with John R. Miles

Episode 683: Nick Thompson on Grit, Growth, and the Miles That Matter
October 30, 2025

Episode Overview

In this insightful episode, John R. Miles sits down with Nick Thompson—CEO of The Atlantic, celebrated journalist, runner, and author of The Running: A Father, a Son, and the Simplest Sport—to explore the profound relationship between endurance, personal growth, and what it means to truly matter. Through stories of running, fatherhood, leadership, and overcoming adversity, Nick shares lessons on failure, focus, perseverance, and how the pursuit of meaning is a marathon, not a sprint.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Influences: Fathers, Rebellion, and Running

• Nick's Upbringing: Grew up in Chicago and attended Andover; describes himself as driven, curious, and a bit rebellious.
  • "I was pretty driven. I was pretty curious. I was rebellious in a little bit rebellious in high school, like a little bit anti the system. I had hair down to here when I was at Andover, which sometimes surprises people." [05:28]
• Running Legacy: Running became a bonding ritual between Nick and his father during the era of the American "running boom."
  • "My dad at that time was in a little bit of a rut professionally, not living up to his early promise. He was struggling with alcohol, and he starts running, and it gives him a feeling of self confidence.” [06:17]

2. Running as a Tool for Self-Discovery and Discipline

• First Meaningful Runs: Early experiences running with his father fostered both connection and resilience.
• Weathering Conditions: Both John and Nick recall formative runs in harsh weather, highlighting the way adversity sharpens presence and awareness.
  • "It increases the intensity of the run. If you go out and it's 100 degrees or it's 3 below or it's pouring rain, you feel more. It just, it heightens your awareness..." [08:49]

3. Navigating Technology & Career Advice in the Age of AI

• Cognitive Offloading: Nick discusses the concept of cognitive offloading—how over-relying on tools (like AI) can dull our mental skills.
  • "The principle whereby once you start to rely on a tool, a technological tool to do something, you get worse at it...when it comes to thinking and writing, I don't want to get worse at it." [01:03, 13:16]
• AI's Impact on Work: Nick urges young professionals to stay flexible and curious as AI transforms industries. Authenticity—especially in writing—will continue to grow in importance.
  • "Every company wants people who are AI native...the lesson, I think, for young people...focus on what you're curious and passionate about." [11:42]

4. Fatherhood, Turbulence, and Legacy

• Chaos and Resilience: Nick’s father’s brilliance was matched by turmoil—coming out as gay, financial instability, and battles with addiction cast long shadows on Nick's childhood.
  • "It's just an incredibly chaotic period in his life...and from that moment on, his life was defined not by his professional successes...but by just absolute madness and chaos for the next 30 years..." [18:18]
• Inherited Struggles: Reading his father's diaries revealed how his dad replicated many of his own father's failings, underscoring the cycle of generational patterns.
  • "The sins of his father were all sins that he directly repeated and imposed upon me." [23:04]

5. Running as Connection and Rebellion

• Holding On and Letting Go: Early running was a way to hold onto his father; later, it became a strategy to establish his own identity and discipline.
  • "I keep running in part to honor him and remember him and in part also to not be become him." [24:08]

6. Marathon Milestones: Chasing and Surpassing Barriers

• Three-Hour Marathon Quest: Nick’s struggle to run a sub-3-hour marathon parallels many listeners' battles with self-imposed limits.
  • "That was the line...2:59:59 is good, 3:00:01 is bad.” [25:07]
• On Plateaus and Ceiling Busting: After breaking three hours, Nick chased a new barrier—sub-2:40—and discovered the mental tricks and hard truths about perseverance.
  • "It's almost like when you set a goal and you miss it, it becomes easier to miss it the next time." [27:30]

7. Overcoming Setbacks: Cancer and the Limits of Endurance

• Cancer Diagnosis: At age 30, Nick faces—and overcomes—thyroid cancer. The return to running post-recovery becomes a metaphor for reclaiming life and meaning.
  • "You spend all these years trying to break 2:30 and then you 2:43 and you're like, I'm on top of the world. And then you're like, no, you're not." [33:55]

8. Pain, Limits, and Growth

• Pain as Information, Not Truth: Nick shares his understanding that pain is not always a literal warning, but often a psychological ceiling set by the brain.
  • "Most of the pain you feel in running is not strictly physiological. It is psychological...your brain has expectations about what your body can do, and...it sends a pain signal." [49:04]
• Strategies to Overcome Mental Barriers: From mantras (“1-2-3…”) to chunking a race into bite-sized goals, Nick details the rituals that get him through the hardest miles—insights applicable far beyond running.

9. Coaching, Experimentation, and Breaking the Mold

• Nike’s Audacious Experiment: Nike pairs Nick with elite coaches as part of a project to unlock amateur runners' hidden potential.
  • "They start training me, and then everything shifts." [41:35]
• Shattering Ceilings: Coach Steve Finley crafts schedules that subtly reset Nick’s understanding of what is possible, leading to breakthrough performances in his 40s.
  • "He was trying to convince me that I can do these things that I couldn’t do. But he’s not telling me directly..." [43:29]

10. Legacy, Family, and Passing it On

• Father-Son Finish Lines: Winning a local race he’d dreamed of as a child provided profound fulfillment, but pacing his own son’s triumph brought a deeper sense of pride.
  • "My goal as a parent is to be available for them anytime they want to do something. And if they want to push themselves, they want to get good at something, I will help them...But I'm not going to tell them to go practice, right?" [56:13]

11. The Wisdom of Michael Westfall

• Community Over Competition: The story of Michael Westfall—accomplished runner living with Parkinson’s—ends the episode with a lesson on dignity and embracing the joy that runs deeper than winning.
  • "He starts to really fall in love with the community that comes from it and the people he meets...and he learns that he has to run with support." [58:02]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Grit & Endurance:
  "The way we move through struggle, uncertainty and self doubt shapes who we become." – John Miles [03:13]

• On Cognitive Offloading:
  "Once you start to rely on a tool, a technological tool to do something, you get worse at it...When it comes to thinking and writing, I don't want to get worse at it." – Nick Thompson [01:03, repeated at 13:16]

• On Breaking Ceilings:
  "It looks like data, but it's actually belief. That's so good, John. That's so good. I love it." – Nick Thompson [43:19]

• On Finding Meaning After Illness:
  "We don't think about death most days, which means we also forget we're alive." – John Miles [37:36 | referencing Nick’s writing]

• On Passing the Torch:
  "My goal as a parent is to be available for them anytime they want to do something. ... But I’m not going to tell them to go practice." – Nick Thompson [56:13]

• On Community and Dignity:
  "There's more to running than just beating people. I realized that when I was 58." – Michael Westfall (as told by Nick Thompson) [57:45]

Key Timestamps

• [05:28] – Nick describes his rebellious youth and drive to excel
• [06:17] – First running memories with his father during America’s running boom
• [11:42] – Career advice for Gen Z entering an AI-transformed workforce
• [13:16] – Cautions and philosophy on AI and authenticity in writing
• [18:18] – The brilliance and turmoil of Nick’s father; family breaking apart
• [23:04] – Discovery of intergenerational patterns in his father’s diaries
• [25:07] – The emotional stake in chasing the 3-hour marathon marker
• [33:55] – Cancer diagnosis and its impact on life and running
• [36:24] – Running the same marathon time after illness; meaning of small improvements
• [43:19] – Breaking through “belief ceilings” and the Nike coaching experiment
• [49:04] – “Pain is information, not truth”: the central governor theory
• [56:13] – Parenting philosophy and pacing his son in a race
• [58:02] – Michael Westfall’s story, Parkinson’s, and the meaning of community
• [63:28] – Practical advice for anyone wanting to start their own journey

Closing Insights

Reflection Takeaways (per John Miles):

• Pain is information, not truth—limits are often opportunities.
• Growth happens between resistance and renewal.
• The most powerful finish lines are the ones we create within ourselves.

Final Encouragement:

• "Just take advantage of that. It's one of the things that makes this sport so special. So whether it's running, whether it's walking, it's going out on your bike, whatever it is, just go try to do something that's like a little further, a little faster, a little more intense than you've done before. Awesome."
  – Nick Thompson [64:50]

Further Resources

• Nick Thompson: nickthompson.com, CEO of The Atlantic
• John Miles: theignitedlife.net, YouTube: JohnRMiles

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