Podcast Summary: Passion Struck with John R. Miles

Episode: Rick Hanson & Joshua Greene on From Us and Them to All of Us | EP 704
Release Date: December 18, 2025
Host: John R. Miles
Guests: Dr. Rick Hanson (psychologist), Dr. Joshua Greene (Harvard cognitive scientist)
Theme: Moving beyond division—science, psychology, and actionable compassion to widen our moral circle and create shared flourishing.

Episode Overview

In this special event episode, John R. Miles convenes psychologist Rick Hanson and Harvard cognitive scientist Joshua Greene for a timely discussion on transcending “us vs. them” thinking. The episode explores the roots of human tribalism, the neuroscience of compassion and bias, practical methods to expand empathy, and the evidence-based power of direct giving to reduce poverty. This conversation supports "Pods Fight Poverty," an initiative aiming to raise $1 million for direct cash assistance to Rwandan families through GiveDirectly.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Evolutionary Roots of “Us vs. Them”

[09:26–11:37 | Joshua Greene]

• Humanity’s story reflects life’s broader story: cooperation and competition are intertwined at every biological and societal level.
• Cooperation allows groups (from cells to societies) to achieve more together, but this evolved through competition—teamwork is a survival tool and, at times, a weapon.
• “Morality, which has been my main topic of study for now…something like 30 years is really a suite of psychological capacities that enable us to be cooperative. That's sort of the bright side. The dark side is…teamwork is a powerful weapon.” — Joshua Greene [10:39]

2. The Nervous System and Group Belonging

[12:05–18:16 | Rick Hanson]

• Humans are shaped by evolutionary drives for in-group support and out-group suspicion, reflected in primal brain wiring.
• Even subliminally shown angry faces trigger the amygdala and raise heart rate—a reflection of the brain’s negativity bias.
• Perceived social support is shown to improve health and reduce risk-taking.
• Unique to humans: evolved “caring and sharing” (compassion and justice within groups) essential to our success.
• “We are each living in a body…that’s the result of three and a half billion or so years of life on the planet evolving … that process…was driven and enabled a lot by the power of love, by the value of compassion and related pro-social qualities.” — Rick Hanson [13:41]

3. Expanding the Moral Circle

[18:37–23:38 | Joshua Greene]

• People must be met where they are; forced moral expansion breeds resistance.
• Study example: Public goods games in different cultures show that cooperation and punishment strategies vary greatly by societal norms and comfort with strangers.
• Projects like Giving Multiplier (charity selection) and the game Tango (cross-group cooperation) demonstrate practical ways to build bridges, expand empathy, and facilitate positive, non-confrontational engagement.
• “You need to appeal to people's motivations as they already exist and figure out how to turn that into a positive experience…” — Joshua Greene [22:48]

4. Compassion as Strength, Not Weakness

[25:34–33:56 | Rick Hanson]

• Compassion combines empathy for suffering, benevolence, and a motivation to help.
• True compassion is motivating, not draining; it increases resilience and supports health (possibly even protects telomeres).
• Self-compassion builds ambition and risk-taking by buffering against harsh self-criticism.
• Practical exercises to expand compassion: focus on commonalities, cultivate liking/well-wishing, recognize the broader context behind harm, and actively choose loving responses.
• “Compassion also has been shown…to increase resilience because of the warm-heartedness in compassion and the sense of connecting with others.” — Rick Hanson [27:31]

5. Compassion Fatigue and Boundaries

[34:26–38:17 | Greene & Hanson]

• Greene discusses curiosity as an entryway to understanding difficult others (“to know all is to forgive all”).
• Hanson emphasizes the importance of self-compassion and protecting oneself emotionally, integrating assertiveness and kindness.
• “If we let hatred in…that's an affliction on us. And it's especially important to pay attention to that affliction because it can feel so rewarding.” — Rick Hanson [39:40]
• Dalai Lama wisdom: “They've already stolen my country. Why would I let them steal my mind?” — Joshua Greene quoting Dalai Lama [40:56]

6. Awe and Moral Beauty

[41:35–44:44 | Both]

• Referencing Viktor Frankl and Dacher Keltner, the group discusses “moral beauty”—the awe felt when witnessing or enabling acts of kindness and cooperation.
• Exemplars and visible models of compassion are critical to inspiring pro-social behavior.

7. Teaching Compassion to Kids & Changing Systems

[47:39–55:29 | All]

• Research: Most adolescent girls (~60%) hide their views for social belonging; the challenge is to cultivate skills to know when and how to speak up authentically.
• Real stories of family experiences with bullying and social ostracism illustrate the pervasive power of tribal dynamics.
• Lasting change comes from both individual and systemic action—elevating consciousness and restructuring social environments, echoing the evolutionary path of collective action.

8. Pods Fight Poverty & Evidence-Based Giving

[55:29–64:20 | Joshua Greene]

• Backstory and rationale for GiveDirectly: Direct cash transfers are highly effective poverty interventions, with large “bang for buck,” multiplier effects on local economies, and agency for recipients.
• The challenge: Guide charitable giving to combine heart (personal connections) and head (maximum impact).
• “It’s not just giving a fish… it's giving people the money to buy the fishing rod that they know that they need, and they know exactly the right one for them.” — Joshua Greene [59:53]
• The campaign uses matching donations to amplify impact.

9. The Value of Individual Acts of Compassion

[64:55–67:09 | Rick Hanson, audience Q&A]

• Every act of compassion, no matter how small, ripples through networks and transforms both the giver and the receiver.
• “Even if your compassion…does not change anything out there… it changes you as it moves through you. … How do we practice with them? And to me, it speaks to the most fundamental of human freedoms…” — Rick Hanson [65:34]

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• [10:39] “Teamwork is a powerful weapon…The long-term challenge is, can we take the cooperative apparatus developed for the tribe and apply it more broadly?” — Joshua Greene
• [13:41] “Every primate species except humans is organized around alpha dominance within groups... Humans uniquely evolved ‘caring and sharing’—compassion and justice inside their bands.” — Rick Hanson
• [22:48] “You need to appeal to people's motivations as they already exist and figure out how to turn that into a positive experience...” — Joshua Greene
• [27:31] “Compassion also has been shown…to increase resilience because of the warm-heartedness…and the sense of connecting with others.” — Rick Hanson
• [39:40] “If we let hatred in…that's an affliction on us…the tendency toward righteousness…we have to really be aware of the appeals of all that.” — Rick Hanson
• [40:56] “They’ve already stolen my country. Why would I let them steal my mind?” — Dalai Lama, as quoted by Joshua Greene
• [59:53] “It’s not just giving a fish… it's giving people the money to buy the fishing rod…” — Joshua Greene
• [65:34] “Even if your compassion…does not change anything out there… it changes you as it moves through you.” — Rick Hanson

Important Timestamps

• [09:26] Joshua Greene on evolutionary roots of cooperation/tribalism
• [12:05] Rick Hanson on neuroscience of in-group/out-group wiring
• [18:37] Greene on practical tools for moral circle expansion
• [25:34] Hanson breaks down the elements and real-world resilience of compassion
• [34:26] Greene and Hanson on curiosity, self-compassion, and compassion fatigue
• [41:35–43:34] Discussion of moral beauty, awe, and its role in cooperation
• [47:39] The challenge of cultivating authenticity and compassion in children
• [55:29] Explanation of Pods Fight Poverty; case for GiveDirectly
• [64:55] Audience Q&A: Do single acts of compassion make a difference?
• [68:16] Calls to action: GiveDirectly.org/passionstruck and globalcompassioncoalition.org

Calls to Action

• Support Pods Fight Poverty: Donate via GiveDirectly.org/passionstruck — donations matched by 50% for a limited time.
• Explore The Global Compassion Coalition: globalcompassioncoalition.org
• Choose daily acts of compassion—it multiplies good in you and others.

Closing Takeaway

Division isn’t fate; it’s habit—and habits can be changed. Understanding the “us vs. them” wiring gives us the power of choice: to widen our circle and act from compassion, not reflex. Science, stories, and systems can all align for a more cooperative, flourishing future—one choice, one circle, one act at a time.