Passion Struck with John R. Miles Episode: Wolfgang Linden on How to Know When It’s Time to Take a Risk | EP 649 Release Date: August 12, 2025
In Episode 649 of Passion Struck, host John R. Miles engages in a profound conversation with Dr. Wolfgang Linden, a distinguished psychologist and author of The Illusion of Control: A Practical Guide to Avoid Futile Struggles. This episode delves deep into the intricacies of control, stress, resilience, and the dynamics of personal and professional relationships. Below is a comprehensive summary capturing the essence of their discussion.
Introduction to Dr. Wolfgang Linden and His Work
John R. Miles begins by sharing a personal anecdote about his travels in Germany, highlighting the generosity and warmth of the people he encountered. This sets a relatable tone for introducing Dr. Wolfgang Linden.
John R. Miles: "When I was a youngster in my 20s... I met some of the most incredible people... I will never forget the generosity in this group of kids..." [05:27]
Dr. Linden reciprocates by expressing his appreciation for the good people he meets worldwide, acknowledging that while there are challenges, seeking out positive relationships is crucial.
Understanding Control: Defining and Redefining It
The conversation pivots to the central theme of Dr. Linden's book—the illusion of control. They explore how individuals often misconstrue control, leading to futile efforts and emotional strain.
John R. Miles: "When it comes to control, we all have different definitions of what that word means. And I was hoping you might be able to give us your definition." [05:59]
Dr. Wolfgang Linden: "It really is all about results... you do not directly control other people... it's about what you can do for yourself." [06:50]
Dr. Linden emphasizes that while people may attempt to control others to achieve desired outcomes, true control lies in managing one's own behaviors, thoughts, and emotions. He introduces a triangle model comprising behavior, thinking, and emotions, illustrating their interconnectivity.
Behavior, Thought, and Emotion: The Triangle of Control
A significant portion of the discussion centers on the behavior-thought-emotion triangle, a framework Dr. Linden uses in his therapeutic approach.
Dr. Wolfgang Linden: "If you change your behavior, it will have an immediate impact on your thinking and your mood." [07:24]
Using a relatable example, Dr. Linden explains how simple behavioral changes—like taking a walk on a sunny day—can shift one's mood and thought patterns, demonstrating the practical application of the triangle model.
Emotional Quicksand and the Struggle for Control
Dr. Linden introduces the metaphor of emotional quicksand, describing how excessive efforts to control or fix others can lead to deeper emotional entanglement without yielding positive results.
Dr. Wolfgang Linden: "Quicksand is something where the usual strategy of putting in an effort to get out produces the opposite result because you sink in deeper." [09:40]
He advises recognizing when to cease futile attempts at control, especially in relationships, and highlights the importance of discerning which relationships are worth investing in.
The Power of Choice and Its Challenges
John and Dr. Linden delve into the concept of microchoices—small, everyday decisions that cumulatively shape one's character and destiny.
John R. Miles: "The power of choice... it's a lot more difficult to implement it than it is when you first hear it. Why do people struggle with this so much?" [12:16]
Dr. Wolfgang Linden: "It's a principle. It's not hard to sell as a principle... you really have to practice that skill." [12:30]
They discuss the gap between understanding the power of choice intellectually and the difficulty of applying it consistently in real-life scenarios.
Thought Suppression and Behavioral Activation
Addressing cognitive challenges, Dr. Linden references Daniel Wegner's White Bear study to illustrate how trying to suppress thoughts can backfire, leading to increased rumination.
Dr. Wolfgang Linden: "Thinking is choosable. The content is choosable." [14:01]
He provides practical strategies, such as behavioral activation, where changing one's actions—like getting out of bed to engage in a different activity—can naturally redirect thoughts and alleviate negative emotions.
Leadership Styles and Micromanagement
Transitioning to the workplace, the discussion touches upon leadership dynamics, particularly the pitfalls of micromanagement despite leaders' intentions to serve.
John R. Miles: "Why do leaders fall into this trap so often?" [16:06]
Dr. Wolfgang Linden: "In order to avoid that, you need to be able to trust... you can delegate or let them do their thing." [16:35]
They explore the balance between oversight and autonomy, suggesting that trusting team members can lead to greater efficiency and morale, while excessive control fosters disengagement.
Navigating Personal and Professional Growth in Relationships
Exploring the impact of individual growth on relationships, Dr. Linden and John discuss the ripple effects of one partner evolving while the other remains stagnant.
Dr. Wolfgang Linden: "If one person makes this kind of change, then I think you need to alert the other one..." [37:00]
They emphasize the importance of communication and mutual understanding to harmonize personal growth with relationship stability, preventing fractures within the system.
Mattering vs. Belonging: Addressing Loneliness and Connection
The conversation shifts to the concept of mattering, distinguishing it from mere belonging. While belonging refers to being part of a group, mattering encompasses feeling valued and significant within that group.
John R. Miles: "We've replaced so much of the connections that we've had... it's now collapsing." [50:00]
Dr. Wolfgang Linden: "I can certainly understand and sense where you're going with it... you need a handful of good connections." [52:36]
They discuss the epidemic of loneliness, attributing it to the breakdown of meaningful, personalized connections in the digital age, and advocate for fostering genuine relationships where individuals feel they matter.
Neuroplasticity and Rewiring the Brain for Positive Change
Dr. Linden underscores the brain's capacity for neuroplasticity, highlighting that intentional actions can rewire neural pathways to break free from negative emotional patterns.
Dr. Wolfgang Linden: "I very much believe in neuroplasticity... make the brain practice plasticity." [25:30]
He shares strategies for rewiring internal narratives, such as exposing oneself to new experiences and consciously choosing to focus on positive aspects, thereby fostering resilience and emotional well-being.
Real-World Applications and Personal Stories
Throughout the episode, Dr. Linden shares real-world examples and personal anecdotes to illustrate his theories:
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Behavioral Activation: A client with Crohn's disease was encouraged to engage in enjoyable activities like playing pool, which helped reduce his focus on pain and improved his mood [33:03].
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Leadership and Trust: Dr. Linden recounts his approach with doctoral students, providing autonomy while setting clear goals, thereby fostering trust and reducing the need for micromanagement [18:10].
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Personal Growth in Relationships: John shares his own experience of involving his spouse in a shared interest (joining a boat club) to balance personal hobbies with relationship harmony [38:08].
Key Takeaways and Final Thoughts
In closing, Dr. Linden encapsulates his core message:
Dr. Wolfgang Linden: "Make a continued effort to estimate the probability that something can work. Create an expectation and see will this behavior give me that result. And if it doesn't, move on." [53:57]
He encourages embracing new experiences, perpetually challenging oneself, and maintaining an open mind to foster continuous personal growth and resilience.
John R. Miles: "It was such an honor to have you today... Thank you so much for being here." [55:04]
Dr. Linden affirms the value of their discussion, emphasizing the importance of understanding control, choice, and meaningful connections in leading an intentional and fulfilling life.
Concluding Reflections
Passion Struck Episode 649 offers listeners a nuanced exploration of control, resilience, and the profound impact of our choices on personal and professional relationships. Dr. Wolfgang Linden's insights provide actionable strategies for overcoming futile struggles, fostering meaningful connections, and embracing the transformative power of neuroplasticity. This episode serves as a valuable resource for anyone seeking to navigate life's challenges with intentionality and inner strength.
Notable Quotes:
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"Trying to change someone's mind is like drilling holes in stone and sometimes the stone pushes back." — Dr. Wolfgang Linden [40:30]
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"Your brain is like Velcro for negative experiences and Teflon for positive ones." — Rick Hansen (Referenced by John R. Miles) [25:30]
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"Stress can be a signal, not a sentence." — Passion Struck Host [56:53]
Listen to the full episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite platform to gain deeper insights into transforming stress into a catalyst for growth and resilience.