Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche on Why the Path Is With You | EP 601

Summary

Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Episode Summary: Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche on Why the Path Is With You | EP 601
Release Date: April 22, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 601 of Passion Struck, host John R. Miles engages in a profound conversation with Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche, a revered meditation master, bestselling author, and global spiritual teacher. This episode delves deep into the nature of suffering, the essence of mattering, and the transformative power of awareness, love, and compassion. Rinpoche shares his personal journey overcoming panic attacks and offers insightful wisdom on creating a life of meaning and connection.

Key Topics Discussed

1. The World as a Meditation Teacher

Rinpoche begins by explaining how the world's challenges serve as teachers in our spiritual journey. He shares his early experiences with panic attacks and how meditation, guided by his father, helped him transform these struggles into opportunities for growth.

• Notable Quote:
  "So what we call obstacle may become opportunity, problem may become solution if we take it as a learning process to grow, to transform."
  [08:27] Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

2. Root Causes of Loneliness and Hopelessness

The discussion shifts to the increasing global feelings of loneliness and hopelessness. Rinpoche attributes this to the fast-paced world, constant comparisons, and the superficial connections facilitated by technology.

• Notable Quote:
  "When we have a lot of competition, we look at the negative aspect. And when we look at a negative aspect, then we feel like, oh, I have this problem, I'm alone."
  [09:18] Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

3. Understanding "Mattering"

John introduces the concept of "mattering" as defined by Dr. Gordon Flett, exploring whether it stems from ego delusions or genuine emotional wounds. Rinpoche elaborates on the innate qualities of awareness, love, compassion, and wisdom that underpin our sense of mattering.

• Notable Quote:
  "Our true nature, what we call, is free from suffering. It is not incomplete, it is complete."
  [18:32] Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

4. Breaking the Conditioning of Performance-Based Worth

Rinpoche addresses the Western conditioning that equates worth with performance and achievement. He emphasizes reconnecting with our innate qualities to overcome feelings of hollowness despite external successes.

• Notable Quote:
  "The awakened nature is with us all the time. We need to connect with that. We need to discover that. We need to recognize."
  [18:19] Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

5. The Role of Awe and Moral Beauty

Drawing parallels with Dacher Keltner's research on awe, Rinpoche discusses how witnessing acts of kindness and compassion can open us to deeper presence and connection, fostering a sense of community and shared humanity.

• Notable Quote:
  "When we witness compassion from others or ourselves, then that hollowness, incompleteness, dissatisfaction, or sometimes sad, lonely. It heals normally."
  [39:20] Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

6. Community Practices to Enhance Mattering

Rinpoche shares practical advice for communities to cultivate a sense of mattering among their members. He highlights the importance of appreciation and gratitude journaling as tools to foster harmony and mutual recognition.

• Notable Quote:
  "Maybe you can even write down the journaling. Three things to appreciate. Maybe one day about you, one day about others...and the world."
  [50:50] Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

7. Compassion Towards Difficult Individuals

Addressing the challenge of maintaining compassion in the face of betrayal or misunderstanding, Rinpoche recounts stories illustrating how to separate the person from their negative behaviors, promoting empathy without condoning harm.

• Notable Quote:
  "We have this practice that we separate the person and the Kleshas... We wish that person free from that hatred, that clashes, that ignorant aversion."
  [55:23] Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

Insights and Conclusions

• Creating Meaning from Within: Fulfillment and mattering are not external validations but are cultivated through internal awareness, love, and compassion.

• Transforming Suffering into Wisdom: Challenges and negative emotions, when approached with mindfulness, can become profound teachers that guide personal and communal growth.

• Interconnectedness of Community: True inclusion and a sense of mattering emerge from recognizing our shared human qualities and fostering mutual support and appreciation.

Practical Takeaways

1. Embrace Your Struggles: View feelings of panic or fear not as flaws but as invitations to deeper self-awareness and growth.

2. Cultivate Gratitude: Implement daily practices like journaling three things you appreciate about yourself, others, and the world to enhance your sense of connection and fulfillment.

3. Foster Compassion: In interactions, especially with difficult individuals, strive to separate their actions from their inherent worth, promoting empathy without accepting harmful behavior.

4. Recognize Interconnectedness: Understand that your sense of mattering is intrinsically linked to the well-being of those around you, fostering a ripple effect of positive impact.

Notable Quotes Highlighted

• "You don't find meaning—you create it."
  [Podcast Description]

• "The awakened nature is with us all the time. We need to connect with that."
  [18:19] Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

• "When we witness compassion from others or ourselves, then that hollowness... It heals normally."
  [39:20] Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

Conclusion

Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche's insights in this episode underscore the transformative power of shifting from external achievements to internal fulfillment. By embracing our innate qualities of awareness, love, and compassion, we can create lives of meaningful connection and purpose. This conversation serves as a powerful reminder that true mattering begins within and radiates outward, fostering stronger, more compassionate communities.

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Reflection Questions:

• What if your panic or fear isn't a flaw but an invitation?

• How can you stop trying to fix yourself and instead start witnessing yourself?

• What micro moments of meaning can you create today for yourself or for someone else?

• How do we move from "I matter" to "we matter"?

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Additional Resources:

• Rinpoche's Books and Guided Practices: Available in the show notes.

• Full Video Interview: Watch on YouTube by searching "John R. Miles."

• Recent Solo Episode on Serendipity and Nattering: Explore how unexpected moments can enhance your sense of belonging and worth.

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Upcoming Episode:

Next on Passion Struck, John R. Miles interviews Dr. Rosalind Chao, author of The Doors You Can Open a New Way to Network. They discuss building trust, using influence to create inclusive workspaces, and navigating power relationships with integrity.

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Final Thought:

Transformation isn't about striving—it's about recognizing that pain can be a teacher and that awareness, love, and compassion are always accessible realities. Embrace your innate goodness and let it guide you toward a fulfilling, connected life.

Transcript

[John R. Miles]

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[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

At a certain level, I discovered that I have the panic, or panic, what I call that aversion to panic. Resist feeling of resistance to the panic attacks. I'm fighting with my panic, actually. And my father said, don't fight. Welcome the panic.

Then I begin to welcome that a bit. It helps a little bit.

Then I thought, oh, now I know the new strategy. So if I say welcome, then panic will not come back.

It's become a little bit like dog chasing tail. But even that fake welcome helps for me.

[John R. Miles]

Welcome to Passion Struck. Hi, I'm your host, John R. Miles. And on the show we decipher the secrets, tips and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself.

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

If.

[John R. Miles]

If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long form interviews the rest of the week with guests ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries and athletes. Now let's go out there and become Passion Struck.

Welcome to episode 601 of Passion Struck. I'm your host, John Miles. And whether you're joining us for the first time where you've been with us on this journey, I am so glad you're here. This is not just a podcast, it's a movement. One that's redefining how we live, love, lead and grow. Here we explore what it means to live intentionally, to flourish fully, and to make what truly matters matter most. And now we're creating a space to go even deeper. It's called the Ignition Room, a new community designed to help you put these ideas into action. It's where insights become daily practices and where people come together to build lives of meaning, courage, and contribution. Which brings me to today's conversation. Let me start with a few questions. What if the feeling of emptiness you carry isn't a flaw but a signpost? What if pain and panic aren't obstacles to peace, but invitations? And what if everything you've been searching for is already within you? Today's guest is one of the most revered meditation masters, Yange Mengyur Rinpoche, a bestselling author, global spiritual teacher, and the embodiment of joyful presence. In this profound conversation, we explore how suffering can become wisdom, how awareness is always with us, even when we forget, and why mattering isn't something we earn, but something we uncover. In our conversation, we explore how panic became Rinpoche's greatest teacher, why awe, appreciation, and compassion are portals to our true nature. We go into the difference between feeling like you matter and truly knowing you do. We discuss how to heal the wounds of anti mattering and restore connection in divided communities, and why spiritual awakening doesn't require becoming someone new it requires remembering who you are. If you're struggling with identity loss or simply trying to feel whole, this episode is for you. And last week I released a solo episode on serendipity and how chance encounters and unexpected turns often hold the deepest clues to our own sense of mattering. It's part of a larger conversation I'm bringing in the Ignition, how we can reawaken our sense of purpose through small moments that shift everything. I also sat down with Laura and Isabel Hoff, Daughters of the Iceman Wim Hof, to explore the intersection of trauma, cold therapy, and transformation. And then we also unpacked the Gut brain paradox with Dr. Stephen Gundry, who illuminated how what we consume can shape our clarity, mood and resilience. And if you're just discovering us, check out our episode starter packs at Spotify or passionstruck.com starterpacks curated playlists that make it easy to dive into topics like personal growth, emotional mastery, and leadership. And if this work speaks to you, come join us inside the Ignition Room. Links are in the show notes because transformation happens faster and more meaningfully when we do it together. Now let's dive into this extraordinary conversation with Yonge Mingoren Rinpoche. Thank you for choosing passionstruck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional Life. Now let that journey begin.

I am absolutely thrilled and honored to have Yonge Menger Rinpoche on Passion Struck. Welcome, Rinpoche.

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

Thank you. I'm very happy to be here.

[John R. Miles]

I am very happy you're here from Nepal as well. And I actually interact with people in Nepal all the time because my whole web development team is based in Nepal. Yes. And some of the most passionate people I have worked with and dedicated. So I'm very happy to call them to be part of what we do here at Passion Struck.

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

Thank you.

[John R. Miles]

So I thought I would open with this question. You often say the world is your meditation teacher. In this time of so much division and disconnection, what is the world trying to teach us?

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

So in my tradition, we believe that everybody has wonderful nature. So what we call basic innate goodness. So this basic innate goodness is the fundamental quality of our own mind. Normally what we call the unity of awareness, love and compassion and wisdom. For example, when I was young, I had panic attacks. So when we experience panic attacks, not happy at all. So we think Warul is dangerous, not safe. And I have special anxiety for strangers and the weather. And I begin to learn meditation with my father when I was nine years old. And my father said, yes, I understand you have these panic attacks, but at the same time you have wonderful nature. And I never believed that at the beginning.

And he tried to give me a lot of examples.

So one example is in my hometown, I was born in the middle of Himalaya mountain in Nepal. So we have very nice environment, but not always like that. There's storms, thunderstorm, snowstorm in the winter, sometimes crazy.

And he said, though there's a lot of storm here, you can watch will.

These storms can change nature of cloud or not? And I look at storm comes, they.

Pass, sky never change.

So of course we have this lot of clashes, what we call suffering clashes. And in, in our mind, in our life, in the world.

But at the same time we have this wonderful quality within ourselves. And eventually I learned a lot from my panic attacks.

So now I'm consider my panic attacks is my teacher and best friend. I'm. I wrote many books. I'm here now talking about this topic.

Because of panic attacks.

So what we call obstacle may become opportunity, problem may become solution if we take it as learning process to grow, to transform. So although we said accept it, let it go, but letting go is not the giving up, give up, transform, learn.

[John R. Miles]

Thank you for sharing that. And I myself have experienced my own set of anxiety and trauma. So I understand how difficult it can be to overcome those things. When you look at the growing sense of the loneliness epidemics and the hopelessness that's happening globally, what do you believe is at the root of it?

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

I think the root is now the world is really become very fast. And one of thing is comparative. So we are comparing all the time compared with our neighbors, our brothers and sisters, colleagues and company at our work. Then we feel like maybe I'm not enough. And then we feel like maybe even though we are in the middle of full of people, but we feel like there's not really connecting. And one way maybe the social the gadgets might interfere. And also that when we have a lot of competition, we look at the negative aspect. And when we look at a negative aspect, then we feel like, oh, I have this problem, I'm alone. We never appreciate how can someone who.

[John R. Miles]

Might be listening or watching this sit with the pain of feeling that they don't belong without collapsing into despair.

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

So for me one of the very effective practice for me is the appreciation. So sometimes we feel like I'm alone. There's no friends, no family, nobody understand me, nobody support me. But what normally what we call when we look at the glass half empty, half full. So which aspect we look at. So one of the important I write like almost doing journal, gratitude journal, appreciation journal. Maybe write down just three things. Oh.

Even though I lost everything, but.

I still have my life.

I still have senses, I have eyes, ear, whatever we have.

There's a roof above me, there's now I have this chair below me. And even we drink the water.

There's so many cause conditions.

This water on my table is kind care so many people involved. So when we begin to appreciate that.

Up to certain level then we feel.

Like some kind of warmth and connection that really helps me.

[John R. Miles]

Yes, I know unfortunately this year exactly what you mean by having to go through these periods in life. We were hit hard here by a natural disaster in the form of a hurricane and had three feet of water in our house. So we lost everything we owned. And it's amazing that in the face of that adversity, what showed up more than anything were the family and friends who came to our aid to help us through. And so even in periods of grief like you're saying, it does open up so many other areas that you sometimes don't think about that are truly special elements of your life like you were just talking about that we take for granted.

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

Normally I talk about sometime I keep teaching for a long time and then I drink a lot of water Then after two hours almost end, I really want to go to the restroom. So sometime I said, oh, now almost finished. Do you have any questions?

No question.

Okay. Then we stop and suddenly people ask questions.

What is the meaning of life?

So then I try to answer very simple and quickly.

Sometimes simple answer may lead more questions.

But I really want to go to the restroom. So I feel like life is miserable. Oh, I really. I cannot stand even one minute. Then I finished my talk and I right, we go to the use restroom. After using restroom, I feel like life.

Is wonderful and like rebirth and everything is whatever. Even the restroom become very nice.

The air when I come out from the restroom.

So normally we all have. We don't have emergency like that once in a while. But we have that wonderful life always there with us. But we don't see we are taking for granted.

And then we look at the only things that we which we don't have.

[John R. Miles]

I think to frame this discussion today, it's important to get your definition of mattering. What does it mean for you, Rinpoche, to matter in a community not as a role, but as a human being?

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

For me, one is this wonderful teaching that I learned from when I was nine years old. The teaching of discovering the basic goodness within myself. Not only me. I always see this with everybody. And that is really helps my life. Like I'm now leader. I have more than 30 different projects.

And I will not have so much problem with the people.

Normally, 99% of the time, even the.

Difficult people comes after a certain level.

I like them and they like me. And I see the good things within them. So for me, this wonderful teaching of discovering awareness, love and compassion within myself is like my journey. I never feel bored. So it's like every day something new.

Aha.

Or learning more. Sometimes what we call discovering unlimited treasure within myself. So this is really matter for me. And second important thing is I love teaching. I share this practice now my schedule is very crazy. But I really feel happy when I teach.

I feel relaxed.

And many people get benefit by this. So I'm very happy to see that many people get benefit. So sometimes I have problem that how much should I teach and how much should I do my own personal retreat? Yes, but that sometimes struggle still I have to find the balance.

[John R. Miles]

I know you love to use metaphors, so I wanted to ask you about this in a metaphorical way. Is mattering a river we enter or something that we carry with us is.

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

With us all the time. We need to recognize it, we need to discover it. What we Call. We all have this awareness, love and compassion and the wisdom 24 hours with us. So actually it's there. Sometimes I give example, like what is that? Can you see this one?

[John R. Miles]

Yes. Watch.

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

If you have the best watch in.

The world, if you are not recognized.

Your own watch can watch tell us time.

Normally not, right?

Watch cannot tell us time, even though it's the best watch in the world.

So we still may lost time then may not be on time. Then we may lose our job. If we lost our job, we may lose our home. All this because we don't know our own watch. But if you recognize our own watch on time, maybe we got promotion, good job, good home, good life.

So watch is same, but what makes it different?

The recognition that when we recognize our.

Own watch, the quality of watch manifests for us.

When we not recognize our own watch, the quality not manifest for us. Although this quality is there.

[John R. Miles]

I think that's a great example and it leads me down this track that I was trying to think of before I got on the interview with you. And that is, do we need to feel like we matter in order to awaken spiritually? Or is it the awakening itself that helps us realize we always have?

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

The awakened nature is with us all the time. And the calling us, what we call. We all have homesick. What is homesick? Wanting to be happy. Don't want to suffer that with us all the time.

And that is calling from our true nature.

The awakened nature within us, calling us come home. Or the feeling of hollowness, empty. Sometimes we feel that empty.

Even the loneliness, even the feeling of dissatisfaction, incompleteness. It's also kind of message, kind of.

Wisdom that calling us come home. Why? Our true nature is what we call free from suffering. It is not incomplete, it is complete. So the awakened nature, what we call, is with us all the time. We need to connect with that. We need to discover that. We need to recognize.

[John R. Miles]

So one of the things that's plaguing so many people, especially in the Western world, is that there's so many of us who feel like we only matter when we perform, when we produce, when we people please. What is your advice? To break that conditioning.

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

There are two matters. So what I call the innate purpose, innate matters and the temporary with the cause and condition. So the innate matter is that we have this, our true nature always there calling us. That is our true nature. But then, of course, look for job. Good job. We think it's good. Good relationship is good. Fame, power, money.

Also we think good. Or whatever we want to do.

If we achieve that, we think that's the matters for me, that is the outer circumstances, temporary things.

But up to certain level, if we.

Go away from our true nature, even though there's fame, power, money, whatever we achieve, we still feel the hollowness, incompleteness, something missing. But then what we call. If you connect more with our innate quality. For example, if you do social work, or if you have good time with your family, or if you help somebody.

You feel really happy, that hollowness go.

Away, feeling like you're coming home. Why?

Because we are really connecting with the.

Real matter within ourselves and also with the awareness. Like scientists saying that everybody has some kind of baseline that happy or not happy, some kind of baseline. And they said this baseline is a very difficult to change. Like even you win the lottery, 80 million US dollar, you got it.

It's good for a few months only.

Then it's come back to the baseline and the relationship.

Very good. Marriage, also a few years and fame, power, money. All this helps a little bit.

But then you come back to the baseline. So the only two things help a little bit longer. One is if you get the salary in your community, you are the number one. The amount doesn't matter. But if you get the best salary, you feel a little bit happy for longer time. Another thing is plastic surgery. It helps better.

But then there's this study about if somebody watch the breathing to be aware.

Of the breath, maybe every day, five.

Minutes, for 30 days.

After 30 days, then there's a enduring benefit. So by this awareness, looks like for me, when I first time learned this awareness meditation, watching my breath, I feel like stupid and the boring.

So when we do that, actually our baseline can change. So even though when we are not meditating, we feel happier.

Why? Because awareness is our true nature. When we connect with the more through our heart, feel more happy. And of course learning, if we really learn, we feel very happy. The wisdom comes. Education is very important. So therefore, the real matter is when we connect with our true nature.

[John R. Miles]

Thank you for sharing that, Rinpoche. And I'm going to share a personal story to give a little bit of my perspective on this. I told you before we came on that I was a senior executive for a while in my career and I had reached what many people would have thought the apex. I was a chief information officer at Dell and had a large organization, the dream job I had always wanted. But underneath the surface, I could feel myself unraveling and slowly disappearing from my own life. And it's a really interesting and terrifying experience to go through. And I often say it's what I think Henry David Thoreau was trying to warn us about when he said, the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation because we keep searching in the wrong places. And the more I was concerned about the money, the accolades, the titles, the more I lived my life. Even though outwardly it was successful, I was living it almost like I was a pinball, where I was bouncing off of things, the wrong things, instead of being intentionally committed to the right things. And so what ended up happening to me, you talked about being hollow, is I felt more hollow physically, emotionally, spiritually, relationship wise than I ever had in my entire life. I felt like I was a shell of myself. And when you reach that point, it's very worrisome. I can't even tell you how painful it felt because you've gotten to this bottom of the abyss and you have no idea how to climb out of it. And so what I'm doing now with the podcast is maybe people haven't fallen that far and we can help them before they do. But I think what I am trying to bring is I have lived this. So for me, this is a really painful aspect of my life. And what I am trying to do is to help people, I think, like you are, so that they don't have to suffer like I did. But it really means that you have to shift your whole life and your value system and what you hold sacred to a whole different element. Because all the things that I thought were going to bring me success, fulfillment, brought me emptiness. But now that I have really focused on impacting people, trying to end as much suffering as I can, trying to give myself to others, my sense of fulfillment has risen and the other areas of my life has as well. So I think that that is an example of what you were saying with your words.

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

Exactly.

I think you are such embodied this journey that you go through all this. And now the problem sometimes many people, they stuck there. And some people not even realize that. Like in our tradition, what we call dukkha, dukkha meaning like, we cannot find exact translation. So some people, they translate suffering, sometimes dissatisfaction. But the real meaning, dukkha meaning the sense of hollow, incomplete, something missing, little bit sad or insecurity. So that sometimes what we call background noise, that dukkha. And because of that feeling, then we look, we are very busy entire life to fulfill that hollow or dissatisfaction or empty. Like when we go with the many people, we feel also noisy. They talk a lot. I want to be alone when we come home after two, three, Minutes later, oh, I'm lonely, I need somebody, I need my smartphone. But then when you look at smartphone, after certain level or something never satisfying. So what we call if we recognize.

That feeling and then if we see.

What we call sometime, what we call the wisdom, there are three things, right? Awareness, love and compassion, Wisdom. So what we call wisdom is the biggest paradox. That very thing, that feeling of hollow, incomplete dissatisfaction is also wisdom. If you know how to work with that, if we know how to learn from that, if you know how to follow. And then actually we will discover actually.

There'S a awareness, love and compassion, wisdom, sometimes what I call inner sky that we can discover within ourselves.

So for me, when I have panic attacks, life feels terrible. And of course I feel empty, meaningless. So then I learned meditation. But of course I was young, I'm lazy boy. I love the idea of meditation, but I don't like the practice of meditation. I just mentioned you. When I practice breathing meditation, I feel stupid and I feel boring and I hear my friends playing. I really want to go there. So it's on and off. So then at a certain level I discover that I have the panic or panic, what I call that, aversion to panic. Resist feeling of resistance to the panic attacks. I'm fighting with my panic attack actually. And my father said, don't fight, welcome the panic.

Then I begin to welcome a little bit, it helps a little bit.

Then I thought, oh, now I know the new strategy. So if I say welcome, then panic will not come back.

It's become a little bit like dog chasing tail. But even that fake welcome helps me.

So then in the end it took me five years. So in the end, then panic become my friend in the end. So for me it's like up to a certain level that panic of panic, aversion of panic is gone. But symptoms still there, tight here. My heart speed up, sweating, all are there. But I feel exciting because we have this practice that I can use my panic as support for awareness and also love and compassion and the wisdom. So deeper level excite this excitement. Okay, now panic comes. Okay, Heartbeat. At the beginning I thought the panic attacks like it's heart attack. So I checked with many doctors. I asked my mom to bring the best doctor. And doctor said, your heart is very good. I thought, oh, fake doctor don't understand me. But then later I know it's not really heart problem. So that also helps. Then after a certain level, all this feeling, the symptoms not become painful for me. In fact, it's exciting. So this is why what I'M saying the panic become my friend and my teacher. Then after a few months, panic is gone, totally gone. So I don't have the real panic attacks since then. But of course I feel panic. If the tiger comes, I want to.

[John R. Miles]

Switch directions a little bit. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Dacher Keltner. He's a professor at University of California, Berkeley. But he studies compassion, kindness and awe. And I interviewed him a couple years ago when his book on awe came out. And it was the first time I had heard the term moral beauty. And he was trying to figure out. Normally we think of awe as something that we experience with the birth of a child, or we see the Mona Lisa or maybe the Himalayas in your country, and that's what brings us awe. But he found that the number one source of awe across all cultures is the moral beauty of ordinary people. It's when we perform or witness acts of compassion, of love, of kindness onto another human being. What do you think that reveals about the human heart?

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

Yes, that's exactly. We discuss in my tradition that when we feel, ah, aha, inside all these things, that when we are more close to our true nature. So love and compassion is our innate quality. So when we connect with that, then it doesn't matter what kind of the manifestation through culture, through behave, through cultivating meditation practice, it doesn't matter. So what we call deeper level, if.

Something not really connect with our true.

Nature, it will reject from inside. So therefore, this moral ethics have become really important because when they connect with our true nature, then we feel like more happy. We feel like coming home, feel like we are with ourselves. So therefore, yes, what you said and what the doctor mentioned. Yes, of course, that's the very important point.

[John R. Miles]

So one of your teachings is that even a single breath can help awaken awareness. Using that analogy, do you see the experience of awe as a doorway into presence or into something even deeper?

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

Yes. So now we discuss about the first quality of our mind, the awareness. Sometimes what we call clarity, sometimes what we call luminosity, lucidity, knowingness, consciousness. So we have so many names for that.

[John R. Miles]

Yes.

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

So basically it's very simple. One way. Can you see my hand?

[John R. Miles]

I can.

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

Awareness, meaning that ability to see, to hear, to experience, to think, to feel. So that ability is what we call.

Like lamp, the candle lamp, the flame is the light, sometimes what we call self luminosity. So if we want to see the flame, the candle flame, we don't need to use flashlight because it illuminates itself. But this Pen. If you want to see this pen, then we need to use external light. So this luminous quality, the knowingness, actually the mind is self illuminating.

The problem is it's beyond concept.

So we cannot really find when we look, we cannot really find through cognitive level, intellectual level, conceptual level. But the good news is what we call we can experience it. We are experiencing this all the time. So then the lamp has true clarity or true luminosity, self luminosity illuminating others. Because self luminosity is very difficult to experience at the beginning. But we can connect with other luminosity, meaning breath could be anything. Being with the breath is connecting with the luminous aspect of the mind. Could be sound, could be smell, could.

Be taste, could be thought and emotion.

So what we call in the end, everything becomes support for meditation. Everything becomes support for lumen awareness, luminosity. So then what we call after certain level obstacle become opportunity. Suffering may become base for happiness when we look at that luminous aspect.

[John R. Miles]

So when I hear you talk about this concept, I have a concept to myself. And it seems the two dovetail pretty nicely. I believe that there are four different levels of mattering that we go through. There's a feeling that you have to have that you matter. So there's personal mattering. There's a feeling that others feel that you matter and make you feel like you matter. There's the light helping other people through your influence and your involvement feel like they matter. And then I believe that there's a ripple effect that happens when all those things come into place that all of a sudden you can start making community, society, the world matter more. Is that kind of a good way to think about it?

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

Yes, of course, why not? So what we call all this is what we call interdependent.

[John R. Miles]

Yes.

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

So all of us connect each other. So sometimes what we call the other is half part of you, you is part of other. So the connection is who we are. So actually what we call when we really identify to me or others or reality, actually we cannot really find the one. So it's always it's changing little bit. And then they are depending each other. So what we call is the connection. You is full of connection. And you and other is also full of connection then to the world, to the society. And these connection.

How this connection become the positive is.

Based on the matter purpose, love, compassion. So when we follow that direction, then what we call win situation. You win, others win, everybody win.

[John R. Miles]

So I wanted to get your perspective from your traditions and spiritual background of what happens within us when we witness someone's kindness, compassion or courage. What opens, what heals?

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

When we witness compassion from others or ourselves, then that the hollowness, incompleteness, dissatisfaction, or sometimes sad, lonely. It heals normally. So it will feel. So we feel more complete, we feel more secure, we feel more not hollow. That's what we call confidence, competence. Not based on pride, but contentment. So when we experience this contentment, completeness, then there's purpose. Then there's the matter, of course, as you mentioned, that comes and then we get energy. Actually, then we feel happy. That happiness is what we call what I call the real happiness. So if you drink coffee, we can feel happy.

But that happy can be coexist with the hollow.

If you win the lottery, looks like happy.

But that happiness also exists with the hollow, the empty.

But then now this happiness is the real happiness, the contentment, the joy. Like coming back to home, being with who we are.

[John R. Miles]

The leading scientist in the world on the science of mattering is a gentleman named Dr. Gordon Flett from Canada. And he has coined this term anti mattering. Do you think that the experience of anti mattering is a delusion of the ego or a real wound that needs healing?

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

So normally in my tradition we talk about three sense of self. So the surface level, what we call unhealthy sense of self. Then more deeper level, we have the.

Healthy sense of self.

Then the core, the essence, what we call luminous self or self beyond self. So if we give the example, the lamb, maybe lamp, candle, lamp, and we can cover that lamp with glass ball, with a very beautiful image, like flowers or rainbows, whatever, then what we see is our room will be full of beautiful image. So that is what we call healthy sense of self. Then we can put another layer with a scary image. Maybe spider, poison snake in the Himalayas, tigers, lepers. If we cover that, then what we will see is our room will be full of scary image.

But all this both layer comes from.

The center, the luminous self, a self beyond self. So what we call the unhealthy sense of self is actually 10% only. But we perceive 90% because we exaggerated. And I discussed this with sometimes some scientists and they talk about if we have 10 qualities within us, one negative, nine positive. Normally what we see is one negative one and then we exaggerate that one. 90% ignore the nine good qualities within us. So as you said, anti matter could be the unhealthy sense of self. It's only 10% the good news.

And then when we look at the.

More deeper level, there's healthy sense of self.

So healthy Self has a lot of.

Relativity, love, compassion, awareness, wisdom. So the self related to that, that is 90%. Then when we look at the really deeper level, the luminous self is 100% what we call.

Because even that unhealthy sense of self is from the.

So the purpose of our practice is to really connect with that luminous self in the end.

[John R. Miles]

Thank you for sharing that. I wanted to talk more about communities. And one of the things that I've really been trying to study up on is dehumanization and the need to belong. How in so many societies now we're treating people as the other side. And I have come to believe, and I've studied this spiritually and I've really studied the work of Kurt Gray and Emile Bruno, who found that if we can start seeing ourselves in the other side because we're more common than we are different, we can start ending a lot of the world conflicts that we're experiencing. To me, this gets back to this concept of mattering. It's how do we move from I matter to we matter without losing the sense of personal dignity and worth that often holds us back from making those concessions to see the other person as a mirror of ourselves. How do you suggest we do that?

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

In our tradition, same thing. Go back to the basic innate goodness. So as I mentioned, the lamp has three unity qualities. The light, the warm or heat, and yellow color. They are different aspects, but they are one. So our true nature has awareness, love and compassion, and the wisdom.

So now the second practice, what we.

Call how to connect with that innate love and compassion. So first time when I hear this from my father, that he said, actually, you have love and compassion 24 hours. And I said what? I never believed that at the beginning I thought, oh, my father is doing my father's job. What we call sweet talk. I thought it sweet talk, but then he teached me. So normally we have first what we call view, which is introduction of this innate love and compassion. Then we have practice the meditation. And number three is what we call application. Then we apply in everyday life. So he introduced me this feeling that he said, do you want to be happy? I said, yes, of course. I have this panic attacks. I want to be happy. He said, that is the love.

And at the same time, we don't want to suffer.

Actually, that is compassion. So he said, every movement of your body is looking for happiness. Don't want to suffer. So sometime I listen his talk like this. Sometimes I bored and become like this. And he said, when you do that, if you keep too Long you feel.

Uncomfortable, I need to change or a.

Little bit happy, relax. But then again the suffering comes maybe like this.

So each movement, each eye blink is looking for happiness.

If we don't blink our eyes, then feel pain, right?

Happiness and even unconscious level.

Each breath is looking for happiness to avoid suffering. And he said, not only the movement in your body, in your mind, it's a thought process.

Each emotion.

In the end, they're all looking for happiness, don't want to suffer. So he said, first we need to recognize this within us.

And then we practice self love and.

Compassion that may I have happiness and.

The causes of happiness. Then we understand others. Actually everybody Looking for Happiness 24 hours, 24, 7. Each movement, each breath, each thought process.

So we might skin look different, culture look different, tall or short. But the deeper level, everybody looking for happiness.

And everybody has this wonderful nature.

So when we see this with others.

Just like you, then you feel connected. Then not just your friends or family.

Everybody in the world wanting to be.

Happy, don't want to suffer.

So then in the end we have this practice of immeasurable love and compassion that we wish that may all beings.

Have happiness and the causes of happiness.

May all being free from suffering and.

The causes of suffering.

So this way then we connect with.

The you, others, society, the world.

[John R. Miles]

So from your perspective, from a contemplative or Buddhist perspective, what does true inclusion look like? Is it sameness or is it something else entirely?

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

What we call unique and the union. Everybody is unique. So we really need to understand everybody cannot become same.

It's impossible.

And if you try to make it.

The same, then we are making another problem, the uniqueness. Everybody has different skills, capacity, knowledge, everything.

Experience, wisdom, different ways. So respecting the uniqueness.

But because of uniqueness, we are together.

We want to learn each other, grow.

Each other a new idea, new experience.

New life for the purpose of awareness, love and compassion, wisdom. The matter we get together, work together.

For the compassion, for the wisdom, for the awareness.

So that is the real meaning of how to connect with everybody.

[John R. Miles]

Rinpoche, if you could give communities one daily practice to help them remember that every person matters, what would that be?

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

I think it's for me is the appreciation and gratitude. So maybe you can even write down the journaling. Three things to appreciate. Maybe one day about you, one day our others. There are other community members. One day about the world, or maybe with the environment. And by doing that, it really helps for the community to become harmony. Not only that, they will see each other's these qualities. I will Share you one story. So one time I was on the teaching tour and somebody couple came to me and they asked me special blessing because they are not happy and they were arguing for from morning to evening. So the husband said he love controlling and the wife is always worried. So then they cannot get along and their marriage has become very unhappy and suffering. And they ask me bless pray for them. So they're expecting maybe I have some magical power and pray and all the problem go away. I told them I don't have that power or capacity so I cannot help you. And they both are a little bit sad. And I told them though I don't have this capacity of special blessing, but.

I can teach you something.

And they both of themselves whatever from you, appreciate it. So then I told them that every day you have to make half hour time to do positive talk, try to discuss some positive good qualities within each.

Other and appreciate that.

They said okay, thank you. And they gone. After few weeks later they both came.

And they both said oh, this 30.

Minutes appreciation is too long. And for them when they begin to discuss like when I met you first.

Time, you are very kind, but not now.

They cannot say now but they look at the time, time is too long. And then they said what should we do? And I told them okay, I can give you a discount. So now not 30 minutes, five minutes only. And they both said oh, that's easy, they can do it. And they're gone and I haven't met them for one year. After one year later they both came, they said thank you so much for your advice. Our life changed. I was not expecting like that at the beginning. They both are quite negative and I asked them how that helped you. And they said when they begin to do this appreciation practice and actually they begin to just realize that actually they have kind to each other, there's a lot of love there.

And they have lot of good qualities.

Within each other which they never see before. And they discuss and actually they really like each other. Eventually though they both have personality. The husband still have that tendency of control, wife still worries a lot.

But then they make humor so they.

Give each other nickname. The husband's name is Control Free and the wife's name is Worry Free. So sometime the husband go out and come home, he knocked the door and he said the most powerful person in the world is coming. And wife said most worriest person in the world welcome you. So sometime we all have problem, mistakes, all these things. Sometimes we cannot change right away, but.

Bring awareness and be kind with ourselves.

Be kind with our friends or family, for others, I think these are really important.

[John R. Miles]

Thank you so much for sharing that. And I think the last thing I wanted to explore with you before we get into a quick wrap up, questions is how do we practice compassion, love and kindness in communities where we feel betrayed or misunderstood, we have this practice.

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

How to practice loving kindness, compassion with the difficult person. So maybe I will tell one story. So one time, me and my father in Nepal, Kathmandu, on the mountain, there's a nunnery. So he was in the nunnery and the group of people came to learn meditation from my father. My father was a great meditation teacher. And there's two men within that group fighting all the time, especially in the evenings. Sometimes they fight a lot and hitting.

Each other also sometimes.

So one day in the evening, me and my father were having soup like a Tibetan dish, what we call. And suddenly one man appear in the room. And I asked my father, please teach me how to control my anger and hatred. And my father, while having the soup.

Asked him, why you hate the other person?

He said, oh, he beat me say bad things, so I hate him.

And my father said, oh, oh, then you should hate the words from him.

The stick that he used. And that person said, I am not stupid. This stupid logic doesn't help me. And my father said, oh, why? He said, the stick is controlled by him. The word is controlled by him.

I hate him.

Not the stupid, not the stick.

And my father said, oh, then maybe you should hate the emotion, the Kleshas within that person. Because that person, when the hatred comes, he cannot control. Just like you. You come here, want to control your hatred and anger, but when it comes, you cannot control. He said, yeah, that's right. So we have this practice that we.

Separate the person and the Kleshas. And whatever they behave, we are not saying the behavior is good. We are not saying the hatred is good. We never follow that, Even sometimes challenge, we should do that.

But at the same time, we see the person is different than the Ecclesiastes. And we wish that person free from.

That hatred, that clashes, that ignorant aversion, craving all this.

And they connect with awareness, love and compassion, wisdom and change, transform.

[John R. Miles]

So I wanted to ask Rinpoche, if you could write one sentence on a wall that every community in the world had to see each morning when they first woke up, what would it say?

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

I think for me, the most important is the awareness that we all have innate quality, that experience of that though.

There'S a thought, though there's emotion, but.

That awareness never disturbed like inner sky, it's free.

And that awareness has also love and compassion.

It has wisdom. So maybe awareness or maybe your basic innate goodness. Just your basic innate goodness.

[John R. Miles]

Thank you. And I'm going to end with this question. You've said before in other interviews that the best teacher is not words but your own example. What legacy do you hope your presence is leaving on others?

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

For me is entire my life. I try my best to practice these teachings since childhood. I do a lot of retreats. All these practices I use in my life, in my leadership, in my way to communicate with others. And also I really want to teach and my own practice and the teaching is two things. Hope they help many other people.

[John R. Miles]

Absolutely. Just like you did today, Rinpoche, it was such an honor to have you here today. Thank you so much for giving us the honor of your presence.

[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

Thank you very much. And I really appreciate that what you're doing also.

[John R. Miles]

And that's a wrap. What an incredible gift to share the space with Yangi Menger Rinpoche. His wisdom, humor and vulnerability remind us that transformation isn't about striving. It's about seeing that pain can be a teacher, not a problem, and that awareness, love and compassion are are not distant goals, but present realities we can reconnect with at any time. Here are a few takeaways I invite you to reflect on. What if your panic or fear isn't a flaw but an invitation? How can you stop trying to fix yourself and instead start witnessing yourself? What micro moments of meaning can you create today for yourself or for someone else? And how do we move from I matter to you matter to we matter? If today's conversation sparks something in you, please consider leaving a five star review. It helps the show reach more people and fuels our mission to bring more intentional insights to the world. And if someone came to mind while listening, share this episode with them. You never know what doors it might open. For links, highlights and resources, including Rinpoche's books and guided practices, visit the [e-mail] youm can also watch the full video interview on my YouTube channel. Just search for John R. Miles and be sure to subscribe while you're there. And don't forget to check out my recent solo episode on Serendipity and Nattering, where I explore how the smallest, unexpected moments can be signs that you already belong and that your life matters more than you may realize. Coming up next on Passion Struck, I'm joined by Dr. Rosalind Chao, author of the Doors. You Can A New Way to Network build trust and use your influence to create a more inclusive workspace. We unpack how to navigate power relationships and inclusion with integrity and why creating access for others is one of the most transformative forms of leadership.

[Unknown]

To me, mattering is knowing that other people would notice if you were gone. That's something that I've been thinking a lot more about. And so when we sponsor other people, we're essentially saying the world is better for having this person in it. And if you weren't aware of them, that would be very sad for all of us. And so when you think about people who don't get sponsored, basically they're not having someone going out and telling other people about how much they matter and how much they should miss them if they were not there.

[John R. Miles]

And remember, the fee for the show is simple. If you found value, share it. But more importantly, live it. Because knowledge alone doesn't change the world. Action does. Until next time, live life. Passion struck.

[Unknown]

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[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

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[Unknown]

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[Yonge Mingyur Rinpoche]

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