Podcast Summary: "Geopolítica de la confusión (y del meme)"
Pausa, episodio 137
Host: Marta García Aller
Guest: Daniel Iriarte, journalist, author of "Guerras cognitivas"
Date: November 19, 2025
Main Theme & Purpose
This episode dives into the rise of “cognitive warfare” and the “geopolitics of the meme”: how states, companies, and groups use digital platforms, memes, and coordinated disinformation to manipulate opinions, destabilize societies, and influence elections. Instead of traditional wars or even old-fashioned propaganda, the battle is now for control over minds—using humor, viral content, and coordinated campaigns that blur the line between joke and psychological operation.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Introduction to Cognitive Warfare (00:36–04:00)
- Modern conflict includes processes aimed at hacking our minds: “La guerra cognitiva… no de una web, sino de nuestra mente.” (Marta, 00:46)
- Propaganda is no longer passive; now, those who consume it often spread it further—unknowingly amplifying manipulation.
- Memes and “cheapfakes” (simple, low-tech manipulations) are as dangerous as sophisticated deepfakes.
2. Case Studies in Information Manipulation
A. Bedbug Panic Before Paris Olympics (04:00–07:00)
- Example: Pre-Olympics Paris “chinches” (bedbugs) panic, likely an orchestrated Russian campaign to destabilize France.
- “Es un ejemplo perfecto de lo que denomino desestabilización low cost.” (Daniel, 05:56)
B. How TikTok Shapes Attitudes (07:00–09:18)
- Chinese control of narratives via separate versions of TikTok for domestic/external use.
- “En Taiwán… los jóvenes grandes consumidores de TikTok… son hasta 10 puntos más proclives a las narrativas de unificación con China.” (Daniel, 08:21)
C. Digital Mercenaries and Trolling Armies (09:18–15:53)
- Both nation-states and smaller actors (even businesses) run troll armies or hire "mercenarios digitales" to manipulate perceptions or attack critics.
- From elite operations run by the CIA, Pentágono, or Russian agencies to low-budget attacks against local competitors.
- “Hay desde ejércitos estatales... hasta campañas reputacionales por unos pocos miles de euros.” (Daniel, 15:21)
D. Engineering Political Outcomes: Romania (16:15–19:44)
- Play-by-play of a sophisticated campaign in Romania, where a pro-Russian, far-right, anti-NATO candidate surged via viral TikTok content and orchestrated volunteer memes.
- “Crear grupos de voluntarios en Telegram… con material simpático… y consiguen que prácticamente todos los rumanos con TikTok vean vídeos de este señor.” (Daniel, 18:47)
E. Memes as Modern Propaganda (20:08–22:54 & 36:22–41:12)
- Memes are “herederos de la caricatura política” but more immediate and viral, shaping perceptions with humor and repetition.
- “El meme es ahora mismo una rama esencial en la guerra cognitiva.” (Daniel, 37:07)
- Example: the EU depicted as the idiot dragon in a three-headed meme—likely originating from alt-right US sources to undermine European institutions.
F. Real-World Impact: From Social Unrest to Eurovision (24:04–26:12; 50:40–51:30)
- Russia’s goal in EU states (Spain’s Catalan “procés,” gilets jaunes in France) is to amplify internal divisions: “A Rusia no le importa que Cataluña sea independiente, lo identificó como el problema que más dividía a los españoles.” (Daniel, 26:12)
- Even Eurovision is a battlefield—with agencies attempting to manipulate voting outcomes for political gain. (Daniel & Marta, 50:40–51:30)
3. AI, Deepfakes, and Cheapfakes (29:55–36:22)
- Russia and others flood the internet (including minority language content) to bias AI outputs.
- Cheapfakes—crude manipulations like the slowed-down Nancy Pelosi video—can be as effective as high-tech deepfakes if people want to believe them.
- “Mi conclusión es que lo importante no es lo elaborada que sea la falsificación, sino cuánta gente hay dispuesta a creérselo.” (Daniel, 34:26)
4. Blurring the Real and the Fake: Influencers and Beyond (43:11–46:11)
- Dictatorships and criminal organizations use influencers for “image laundering” (Afghanistan tourism, SA’s “desradicalization”, mafias promoting migration).
- “Las mafias de tráfico de personas están utilizando también a influencers… para fomentar la inmigración y aumentar su negocio.” (Daniel, 45:36)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
On the New Mechanics of Propaganda
- “El que se contamina difunde... sin saber que ese chiste... ha sido creado en un laboratorio de propaganda ruso... o en el sótano de la extrema derecha estadounidense, o en Rabat, vete a saber, para conseguir exactamente que tú lo difundas.”
— Marta García Aller, 00:46
On the Scale and Ease of Weaponized Memes
- “Es desestabilización low cost. Por muy poco dinero y simplemente con unas pequeñas estrategias muy inteligentes puedes tener un gran impacto.”
— Daniel Iriarte, 05:56
On the Effectiveness of “Cheapfakes”
- “Lo importante no es lo elaborada que sea la falsificación, sino cuánta gente hay dispuesta a creérselo.”
— Daniel Iriarte, 34:26
On Manipulation in Social Movements & Elections
- “A Rusia no le importa que Cataluña sea independiente o no, pero identificó como el problema que más dividía a los españoles.”
— Daniel Iriarte, 26:12
On the Memetic War and Trump
- “El meme es ahora mismo una rama esencial en la guerra cognitiva.”
— Daniel Iriarte, 37:07 - “Crea el equipo de memes de Trump y se dedican a ridiculizar a sus adversarios.”
— Daniel Iriarte, 38:14
On Human Vulnerability and Digital Literacy
- “La alfabetización digital, el que la gente sea capaz de discernir lo que se encuentra… hay países como Taiwán donde si ves algo puedes reportarlo y ellos te verifican.”
— Daniel Iriarte, 21:28
On Public Susceptibility
- “Los videítos estos que te salen en Twitter... los chavales tienen muy claro que eso es inteligencia artificial… nuestra generación y superiores, vete a preguntar.”
— Daniel Iriarte, 47:00
Key Timestamps for Major Segments
- 00:36–04:00: Introduction to cognitive warfare & bedbugs in Paris
- 07:00–09:20: TikTok, China, and mind-hacking youth
- 09:20–15:53: Troll armies, mercenaries, and spectrum of campaigns
- 16:15–19:44: Case study: Romania’s “candidate from nowhere” and social viralizing campaigns
- 20:38–22:54: How memes function as weapons; algorithms and manipulation
- 24:00–26:12: Russia’s destabilization approach in Spain’s Catalonia
- 29:55–36:22: Cheapfakes vs. deepfakes and AI poisoning
- 36:22–41:12: Meme as modern political weapon; attacks on EU perception
- 43:11–46:11: Influencers used to whitewash regimes, criminal promotion
- 47:00–49:30: Generational differences in digital skepticism; optimism for youth resilience
- 50:40–51:30: Eurovision as a target for digital influence operations
Digital Defense & Optimism (Towards the end)
- Nordic countries (Finland, Estonia, Sweden) best case studies for digital literacy; education starts in preschool.
- “En Estonia y Finlandia… el grado de penetración de desinformación rusa es de los más bajos porque la gente es más consciente.” (Daniel, 22:57)
- Daniel concludes that, ironically, youth seem more skeptical, and technology advances in detection can keep pace with manipulation:
“Creo que la tecnología no me preocupa tanto… la capacidad de manipulación avanza, pero también la tecnología de detección.” (Daniel, 47:28)
Tone & Style
Throughout, the conversation is witty, informal, and accessible—balancing the heaviness of the subject with anecdotes ("mi primera guerra cognitiva—chispas", Marta, 22:54) and pop culture references, as well as practical reflections on what listeners can do: apply skepticism, seek digital literacy, and remember that “common sense” is rare but crucial.
Final Words
The episode sketches a world where every platform (from TikTok to Eurovision to AI models) is a battleground—and memes are the new “bullets.” The advice: maintain critical thinking, foster digital awareness, and remember, anyone can be an unknowing pawn in a global information war.
“Aquí, creo que esto tiene que ser individual y personal: el ser todos un poquito más críticos con lo que vemos…”
— Daniel Iriarte, 49:08