Turns out CJ is 103rd on the NFL’s TOP 100

Summary

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Payne & Pendergast: "Turns Out CJ Is 103rd on the NFL’s TOP 100"

Date: August 4, 2026
Hosts: Seth Payne & Sean Pendergast
Notable Guest: Nick Caserio (Texans Executive Vice President & GM)
Location: Live from Houston Methodist Training Center (Texans Training Camp)

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Episode Overview

The main theme of this episode revolves around reactions to C.J. Stroud’s placement in Mike Sando’s annual NFL Quarterback Tiers (notably, 20th overall and top of Tier 3), broader Texans training camp observations, and an in-depth conversation with GM Nick Caserio about roster construction, player development, and team culture. There is also attention to the recent signing of Jadeveon Clowney, updates on Tank Dell’s rehab, and the importance of a solid rushing attack for the Texans’ offensive progress.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Breaking News & NFL Running Back Market

[01:54-03:20]

• Bijan Robinson signs a 3-year, $75M extension with $51M guaranteed for the Falcons.
  • Payne notes the trend toward shorter but lucrative RB deals:
    “Running backs, we’ll pay you good, respectable money. But it’s going to be on short-term deals.” (02:13, Seth Payne)
  • Hold-in trend for RBs discussed; parallels drawn to MLB players’ discipline sticking out contracts.

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2. Mike Sando’s QB Tiers & CJ Stroud’s Ranking

[04:23-07:58]

• Sando’s much-anticipated annual QB ranking has:
  • Tier 1: Mahomes, Allen, Stafford, Burrow.
  • Stroud is ranked 20th, top of Tier 3—characterized as a “legit starter, but you need a running game or defense to win.”
  • Discussion on expectations for Stroud given his rookie breakout and sophomore struggles.
• Notable Quotes & Analysis:
  • “CJ was ninth in this exercise last year...and Jordan Love is tenth this year...CJ’s not shown up yet…” (05:41, Matt)
  • “He’s starting to fall into that category of a quarterback who's hard to protect...He holds the football, and then when he holds the football, he makes mistakes.” (08:39, Matt quoting anonymous NFL exec)
  • Payne and Pendergast underscore “ambivalence” among league evaluators but remain optimistic about CJ’s upside:
    • “My thoughts about what C.J. Stroud’s ceiling theoretically is and should be are still very high. And it’s going to be a huge disappointment if he doesn’t get somewhere close…” (07:30, Seth Payne)

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3. Jadeveon Clowney Returns to Houston

[11:39-13:14]

• Caserio provides background on signing Clowney to fill the “third end” spot, referencing their mutual interest and Clowney’s continued productivity:
  • “He’s always played hard, and he’s disruptive with his snaps...he still brings some positive qualities to the table.” (13:14, Caserio)
• Payne expresses frustration with the “doesn’t play hard” narrative that follows Clowney:
  • “He plays hard. And he has since he was a rookie...He’s got a swarmy element to his play.” (13:13, Seth Payne)

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4. Texans’ Defensive & Team Culture Under DeMeco Ryans

[14:22-16:04]

• Caserio highlights how Houston has become a “destination” for defensive linemen:
  • “People want to come here and be a part of our program. It starts with DeMeco...but ultimately, the players are the ones that hold themselves accountable.” (14:59, Caserio)
• Citing examples of practice “finish” and player accountability as the best kind of accountability.

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5. Offensive Line and Training Camp Mechanics

[16:04-22:31]

• Positive camp feedback for rookie Keelan Rutledge’s finishing mentality and the OL room overall.
  • “He shows up every day...he has a certain mentality and a certain playing style and it’s reflective of how we want to play.” (16:20, Caserio)
• Discussion on the challenge and value in mixing and matching starting OL during camp:
  • “If we had to play a game today, we feel we could play with nine or ten offensive linemen and be able to go out there and play competitively.” (20:10, Caserio)

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6. Tight End Room and Roster Construction

[23:33-25:43]

• Observations on Marlin Klein’s physical presence and development.
• Caserio discusses the depth at TE and the “puzzle” of crafting the 53-man roster:
  • “If you’re heavier at one spot, it means you’re going to be a little bit lighter in another spot...that’s part of the puzzle.” (24:53, Caserio)

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7. Offensive Evolution & Quarterback Development Timeline

[26:25-31:26]

• Caserio shares insight into CJ Stroud’s developmental arc:
  • “It takes time...even going back to Brady, it probably took him like, three or four years until he really had it...It’s constant evolution. It takes time, and sometimes it takes, I’d say, multiple years.” (28:54, Caserio)
• Stressing the importance of communication, especially among QB, OL, and skill players.

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8. Revamping the Rushing Attack

[31:26-34:38]

• The Texans prioritized upgrading the run game in the offseason to help CJ:
  • “It felt like almost every move you guys made this offseason...was through a lens of how do we fix this rushing attack?” (31:30, Seth Payne)
  • Caserio confirms running the ball remains a “consistent theme,” pointing to its correlation with winning (points in the red zone, playoff success, etc.).
• New signing David Montgomery’s value in short yardage and the passing game is discussed, with special note of Detroit fans’ appreciation for him.

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9. Tank Dell Health Update

[39:27-44:59]

• Caserio gives cautious optimism:
  • “He’s getting a little bit closer, making progress...At some point he’ll graduate to going into more drills in practice.” (39:27, Caserio)
  • Focus on gradual ramp-up, with awareness of both physical and mental hurdles.

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10. Team & Player Culture: “Football Junkies” and Glue Guys

[46:30-48:38]

• Discussion of team culture:
  • “Who’s the biggest football junkie on the team?” (46:30, Matt)
  • Caserio lists Petrie, Kamari, William, Aziz, Henry as standouts for their work ethic and “junkie” mentality.
  • Emphasis on value of “glue guys”—role players who provide continuity and culture beyond the marquee names.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• CJ Stroud’s 2026 QB Tier status:
  • “This is a big year for him. He has it in him.” (06:58, anonymous NFL DC, read by Matt)
• On team/locker room culture:
  • “Player accountability is the best accountability...If you don’t play hard and compete, you’re probably not going to last very long.” (14:09, Caserio)
• On David Montgomery’s rep in Detroit:
  • “I’ve never had so many people show up, like, from another fan base in my mentions and be so nice...these Lions fans love David Montgomery, right?” (34:38, Seth Payne)

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Segment Timestamps for Key Topics

• Bijan Robinson deal & RB market trends: 01:54—04:21
• Mike Sando’s QB Tiers & the CJ discussion: 04:23—09:48
• Jadeveon Clowney signing analysis: 11:39—13:40
• Defensive culture & player accountability: 14:22—16:04
• Offensive line development: 16:04—22:31
• Tight end room & roster construction: 23:33—25:43
• CJ Stroud’s development & system learning curve: 26:25—31:26
• Prioritizing the run game: 31:26—34:38
• Tank Dell rehab update: 39:27—44:59
• Team culture, football junkies, and glue guys: 46:30—49:18

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Summary Takeaways

• CJ Stroud’s evaluation is at a crossroads: respected for his ceiling and vet-like flashes, he's in “prove-it” territory to show he can cement himself as a true Tier 2 QB.
• Texans’ culture is a selling point—especially on defense, under DeMeco Ryans, making Houston a destination for players seeking the right environment to thrive.
• Roster construction is nuanced, with emphasis on cross-positional depth and culture fits, especially at TE and OL.
• Running game is a focal point for 2026, with David Montgomery’s skillset a key addition.
• Player development is viewed long-term, with the front office emphasizing professional maturity, communication, and incremental growth for both young players and established vets.

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Conclusion

This episode delivers a thorough “state of the Texans” check-in from camp: skepticism toward CJ Stroud’s national standing is met with local faith in his development and team context, while Nick Caserio’s approach is revealed as methodical and player-first. There’s also plenty of classic Payne & Pendergast banter, healthy skepticism of media narratives, and a persistent undercurrent of optimism about the direction of H-Town football.

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Transcript

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[Seth Payne]

This tool is for education purposes and

[Nick Caserio]

doesn't guarantee you'll reach your credit score goal. The score you receive uses VantageScore 3.0

[Seth Payne]

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[Nick Caserio]

used by lenders member fdic. Texans training camp is here live from

[Seth Payne]

the Houston Methodist Training Center. Sports Radio 610 presents Payne and Pendergast.

[Matt Pendergast]

Nick Casario joins us in about a little over 10 minutes and we'll talk to the Texans GM for the remainder of the program today, all the way up till 7:55 so or 7:54.

[Seth Payne]

That's entered the lexicon, hasn't it?

[Matt Pendergast]

Program program McAfee.

[Seth Payne]

McAfee's McAfee is big enough to have entered the way people pronounce.

[Matt Pendergast]

Yeah, it might wind up in Webster's. Who knows, man, you never know. Quick, quick. Breaking news. Bijan Robinson. We know we got a lot of Longhorns listening out there. Three years, $75 million extension. He just signed this morning with the Atlanta Falcons.

[Seth Payne]

That's kind of where the league is settled in on is like, listen, running backs, we'll Pay. We'll pay you good, respectable money. But it's going to be on short term deals.

[Matt Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

And. And the running backs have kind of grudgingly. All right, I get it.

[Matt Pendergast]

AAV. Pretty good, though. 25.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Nick Caserio]

That's really good.

[Matt Pendergast]

Yeah. And so 51 million guaranteed. So congrats to Bijan Robinson. And now at that position, all eyes shift to Jameer Gibbs, who's in a hold in right now up in Detroit.

[Seth Payne]

The hold in. You and I were talking about this during a break. The hold in doesn't seem to be quite the scourge that it looked like it was becoming. So for those of you who don't know, a hold in is when a player shows up and he's not practicing. He's got a nondescript injury. Think Jonathan Taylor a couple years ago. And. And. And he's also agitated about his contract.

[Nick Caserio]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

And the team. The team is saying they're in a position where they say, well, we could fine you for contract detrimental, but that's probably not the best way to move forward with this. And it's a. It's uncomfortable as a fan to watch this. It feels like it. It feels like to me, as a former player, it feels like dirty pool. Like, I'm not a fan of the Holden. I'm a former player. I stand for the rights of players and everything, but it's kind of. I feel like it's dirty pool.

[Matt Pendergast]

We got to get to the CJ thing. But could you imagine if Tank Dell's whole thing is. He's actually holding in right now.

[Seth Payne]

He's. He's actually been fully recovered for six months, but he wants a bump on his contract. Everybody else can use extensions. What the hell?

[Matt Pendergast]

Your leg's been shattered twice already and shot at.

[Seth Payne]

You gave Will Anderson a contract that I'm sitting out here.

[Matt Pendergast]

That'd be hilarious.

[Seth Payne]

No, I think so. The other one, real quick. I'm sorry. I do think the Major League Baseball Players association, one of the reasons that they are so powerful, for one, is that they uniformly. They don't pull this crap.

[Matt Pendergast]

No.

[Seth Payne]

They don't demand trades. It's very, very rare for a player to try to agitate his way out of a situation. They say, oh, cool, we get these huge, lucrative contracts, but we're gonna hold up and we're gonna play out our contracts even if we're in a miserable situation. And it's like, I don't know how they do it with that many players, but they. They stick to it. So there's a Level of certain. So GMs can give out that money knowing, like, okay, I don't have to worry about this guy agitating for a

[Matt Pendergast]

new deal because every time there's a work stoppage, the players in baseball win.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. You know, they win.

[Matt Pendergast]

So. So, yeah, Bijan Robinson, very rich man. All right, so the Mike Sando. I wish we had more than five minutes to get into this, but I will happily take Nick Casario as a guest here. But Mike Sandoz Quarterback Tiers annual article is out. It's one of my favorite ones. He's got a bunch of 50 people from around the NFL voting on what tier each quarterback is in. And then he blends it all together into one ranking. So just to give you the high points here, there's four quarterbacks in tier one. These are the franchise, franchise guys. And it's the names you would think. It's Patrick Mahomes, it's Josh Allen, it's Matthew Stafford, it's Joe Burrow. Those are the four. Lamar Jackson is at the very top of Tier 2, and there's about 10 or 12 guys in Tier 2. Tier 2 is described as someone who carries his team, sometimes handles pure passing situations in doses, has other dimensions that elevate him above tier 3, but has a hole or two in his game. Not going to go through all the names, but I will say as I page down tier 2 and I get into the early teens of overall quarterbacks here.

[Seth Payne]

Well, and I think when you get into the golfs and the loves, you know where, okay, this is right around where CJ was. That was the conversation around that, that him and him and Jordan Love were almost in QB rankings, always right next to each other.

[Matt Pendergast]

C.J. was ninth in this exercise last year. Yeah, this very exercise a year ago he was ninth.

[Seth Payne]

Jordan Love is tenth this year Jordan Love is tenth.

[Matt Pendergast]

And CJ's not shown up yet. As we scroll down. Brock Purdy, Caleb Williams. Jaden Daniels is 13. Keep going. Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, haven't got a CJ yet.

[Seth Payne]

There's a Trevor Lawrence.

[Matt Pendergast]

Lawrence at 16.

[Seth Payne]

I like Jaden Daniels being where he is given that so far his trajectory has been very similar to CJ's in terms of incredible rookie year, underwhelming second year. But I think people are making the excuses of the. It's weird. Just like with cj, they're making excuses of an offensive coordinator that might not have been the right guy, even though it's the same offensive coordinator that delivered the that rookie year well.

[Matt Pendergast]

And his issues are Injuries now too.

[Seth Payne]

And injuries. Yeah. C.J. didn't have the injuries.

[Matt Pendergast]

Yeah. Yeah. Which, which makes it curious. Jalen hurts. 17. Ah, now we get to tier 3. CJ must be showing up at the top of tier 3, where in that tier you're a legit starter, but you need a running game or defense to win.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Matt Pendergast]

Lower volume, drop back passing offense suits him best. That feels like the direction things are going with CJ Right now, that description. So he must be near the top of that. 18th Bo Nix. 19th. Aaron Rodgers, Rogers, Rogers, 20th.

[Seth Payne]

CJ Rogers was as bad in the playoffs as CJ Stroud was in the playoffs.

[Matt Pendergast]

20th. Yeah. On the very same field. 20th. CJ Stroud, the one. The headline quote. They have a headline quote for each of these guys. Seth, from a anonymous person. The headline quote for CJ Is from a defensive coordinator. Coordinator. This is a big year for him. He has it in him. End quote. Does CJ have it in him to get back into Tier 2 this season?

[Seth Payne]

I think he, 100% he has it in him. Yes. Yeah. I, by the way, the voting for

[Matt Pendergast]

him, 13 votes in tier two, 37 votes in tier three.

[Seth Payne]

My, my, my thoughts about what C.J. stroud's ceiling theoretically is and should be are still very high. And it's going to be a huge disappointment if he doesn't get somewhere close or at least, you know, substantially better than he was last year. Because I do think, I do think he made some improvements last year in operating as an actual veteran NFL quarterback. It's just, it's, you got to see him with a competent supporting cast and start to give a feel for just. Exactly. All right. Now he doesn't have these excuses or. All right. He's got these things and wow, look at how much better the performance is. Just a solid rushing attack. Not even an awesome rushing attack. A competent rushing attack for one. That's the biggest thing.

[Matt Pendergast]

Do you want some anonymous quotes?

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Matt Pendergast]

A defensive coordinator said, quote, prior to last year, I would have thought he's going to be on the fringe of being in the upper echelon. I want to say he's a three based on the last couple years, but he's a two if I'm being fair. So kind of what you're saying, like, he's right now sits in three, but he's got the potential. Obviously he's got the potential. He's done it before.

[Seth Payne]

They said ambivalence was a theme with a lot of these voters on CJ Stroud.

[Matt Pendergast]

Yep. And here's a couple Quotes to that end, he's starting to fall into that category of a quarterback who's hard to protect. This is an executive saying this. He doesn't beat you at the line and get the ball out. He holds the football. And then when he holds the football, he makes mistakes. End quote.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. And I think that's honestly one of the things that he made improvement on last year. It's just with everything being shuffled around and with still not being able to truly trust the pass protection. But more than anything, I think the receivers play a part in that, too. I think not getting the ball out fast or especially when he's under duress. I think there were just, there were too many times where the quarterback and the O line weren't necessarily always on the same page. There were times when young receivers who maybe should have been the hot receiver didn't have their eyes on C.J. there was, there were a lot of things that were above and beyond just CJ Himself when it comes to that. And it came in. I think one of the tough things about CJ Last year was that some of the, some of the higher, some of the nationally televised games are the ones where these issues showed up and people by and large didn't see a lot of the good things he was doing in the same category.

[Matt Pendergast]

Yep. All right, Nick Casario, Texans executive vice president and general manager, is going to join us out here live at training camp. Coming up next, we will talk about CJ Stroud with Nick Casario. How's this offensive line evaluation going? And the. The reunion with Jedevion Clowney. We'll get some of the details on that, hopefully from Nick Casario as well. Stay there. You're listening.

[Seth Payne]

Are you Ready? Sports Radio 610 presents Pain and Pendergast.

[Matt Pendergast]

Hi. There we go. We know when that music plays and it's in the 7 o' clock hour. I'm Payne and Pendergast and we're here at the sixth practice of Texans training camp. Sweating, steamy.

[Seth Payne]

Do you call it? Do you call it? I call it. Day. Day seven.

[Matt Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

You like going by practice?

[Matt Pendergast]

I like going by practice number. You know what?

[Seth Payne]

How do you guys do it?

[Matt Pendergast]

Let's let Nick Casario, Texans Executive Vice President, General manager, break the tie. Is today day six of camp because it's the sixth practice or is it practice six and day seven, it's practice

[Nick Caserio]

two because it's the second one in

[Matt Pendergast]

pass, no tie broken. But he's the authority. His vote counts the most.

[Nick Caserio]

Great to be here.

[Seth Payne]

Good morning.

[Matt Pendergast]

Question.

[Seth Payne]

Like A pro. All right.

[Matt Pendergast]

Yeah. Good morning. Good morning. It's great to see you, Nick, as always. Me personally, I wanted to make sure we got you after SummerSlam so I could get just one gut reaction to SummerSlam before we get into all the football stuff.

[Nick Caserio]

Probably Randy Horton coming out of nowhere.

[Matt Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Nick Caserio]

Rko.

[Matt Pendergast]

Is he another close personal friend of yours?

[Nick Caserio]

Not sure he's quite in triple H category, but we're, we're, we're bridging the gap.

[Matt Pendergast]

You met combine? Yes. You met him at the combine. And my first reaction was, is Nick really small or is Randy Orton as big as.

[Nick Caserio]

He's really big. I mean, I'm not very big, but he's a monster.

[Matt Pendergast]

He's a big dude.

[Seth Payne]

It's like that picture of yao Ming and JJ. Yeah, JJ looks like a 12 year old. That's what it was. Yeah.

[Matt Pendergast]

You're a good company, J. It's great to see. As always, Nick. So let's, let's get into it here before we get into all the stuff we've seen on the field. Big news for Texan fans, the last day or so has been Genevion Clowney coming back. Take us through that. What made this the right time for JD to return to the Houston Texans?

[Nick Caserio]

Yeah, we kind of worked through the spring in there a little bit. You know, that kind of third end spot was an area that we probably felt we were going to add at some point. You know, Derek did a good job for us in that role. Had conversations with him, so just kind of keeping track of the market. Who are the players that are in that category? Feel pretty fortunate, you know, with Will and Danil. And then I would say Dillon has had a good role for us. And then we signed Dominique Robinson. He's had a pretty good training camp here, so it kind of brings a little bit different element, but that was an area. We're just kind of looking at some players that maybe potentially could fill that role. And you know, JD Was a player who we had some conversations with initially, maybe it was a little bit later in the spring, summer. And then we kind of kind of kept in contact with his agent over the course of the summer. And then there at some point there was some level of mutual interest. He obviously had a lot of interest from some other teams. I think there's some other teams that were involved, but it kind of worked out. I mean, it says a lot about Jadevion, the fact that he wanted to be here, wanted to be around some of the things that we're doing. We didn't overlap when I wasn't here, when Jadevian was here previously. Haven't played against him multiple times. Know how big of a pain in the ass that he was.

[Seth Payne]

But.

[Nick Caserio]

And he's still shown the ability, whether it's in Dallas, Baltimore, Carolina, these different stops, he still brings some positive qualities to the table. So we'll get started with him today. He'll be out here practicing. We'll kind of see how it goes.

[Seth Payne]

I think the thing with Javion Clowney that going back to when he was here is I get frustrated on his behalf, partly because at least part of the narrative about him is I like. And I still get people saying to me now, like, well, he doesn't play hard. I'm like, he plays hard. And he has since he's a rookie. And I don't know why people haven't picked up on that other than that they're just looking at stat lines or whatever. But he's. He's got a swarmy element to his play.

[Nick Caserio]

He's always played hard, and he's disruptive with his snaps. I mean, even when we were playing against the Texans, when I was in New England, you know, their front, you know. Yeah. Jj, you know, you had. JD Was a part of it. Merciless. And they'd move JD around some different spots and put him over to guard. I mean, he was really difficult to block. So he's got a unique skill set. His length, he's got real good straight line speed. He does have toughness. And to your point, Seth, he plays with good effort. I'm not really sure he runs well.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Nick Caserio]

So the ability to close space and close from behind. So we feel the reality is whoever walks in the building, whoever walks in that defensive meeting room, if you don't play hard and compete, you're probably not going to last very long.

[Seth Payne]

Oh, yeah. And that's one thing about, you know, I said this offseason, if I were a free agent defensive lineman who wasn't happy with the offers that I was getting, I would. I would fly to Houston and park myself in front of d' Ameco's office and say, I want to play here. And I think Rod Wright does an incredible job as a defensive line coach. I think Burke and d' Amico do an awesome job in just creating an environment where you come here and you guys have this tendency to get the best out of defensive linemen. Are you starting to get the feel for this being a destination where a guy like Dominique Robinson perhaps, can look at multiple places and Say, man, people go to Houston and they tend to do pretty well.

[Nick Caserio]

Well, I think we're fortunate that people want to come here and be a part of our program. And it really starts with the players because ultimately we can message it. And obviously there's standard of performance that's expected day to day. It starts with d' Ameco and then defensively trickles down to Matt, Rod Wright, you know, Billy Davis, Dino Steven, even Frank Oakham too. I mean, Frank works the defensive line. So. But ultimately the players are the ones that hold themselves accountable. So in the end, player accountability is the best accountability. Like you can do only so much as a coach and try to message, but if the players don't go out there and perform that to that level and do the things that you want to do, ultimately it's not going to work. So it's really, it's a credit to the players. And they see, I mean, you watch practice, I mean, there's a play d' Amico showed yesterday. It was a small thing, but talk about finishing, closing into the ball. I mean, Aziz must have run like 40 yards to track the ball. He was in the line of scrimmage and that was the end of the play and he was sprinting to finish on the ball. So when you see a player like Aziz do that and then Kamari shows up around the ball, so there's a trickle down effect. So you really don't have a choice. And if you don't do it, you become an outlier.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, you're. Yeah, you're a black sheep.

[Matt Pendergast]

Yep. Texans executive vice president and general manager Nick Casario joining us here live at Texans training camp. To that end, how much is Keelan Rutledge shown up finishing plays in the, in, in the tape in the offensive line room? Because we've seen a lot of that out here.

[Nick Caserio]

He shows up every day and you saw that at Georgia Tech. That was one of the things that was appealing about him. He, he has a certain mentality and a certain playing style and it's reflective of how we want to play. And it showed up well, I think one of the first or second day of practice, even when we were in shorts. When you're in shorts, there's only so much you can do, but you're trying to get. It's more assignment football. But you know, there's going to be some contact to some degree. And I think. I can't remember what happened. It was the end of a play, him and Aziz and then Kamari got in there. So, you know, And Caitlin wasn't backing down, and he's not going to back down, which is what you want to see. So you want to toe the line because you're. We're going to play clean, hard football. You just don't want to go over the line. But that notion of finishing plays is something that we want to be able to do as a football team. And that message, I would say, each day is emphasized, and then when you see it show up on tape and on the field, it kind of reinforces the decision that you made.

[Matt Pendergast]

Does it. Does it even augment the message to the rest of the room a little bit that this is a guy who's in his sixth practice today, you know, and he's the guy we're showing up here finishing these plays?

[Nick Caserio]

Well, this is the standard and this is behavior. So this is what we're going to reinforce, good or bad. Hey, here are some things that are the positives. I mean, d' Ameco does a great job of going through practice and highlighting, hey, here are some of the things that we did well. Here's some areas that we can improve, but we're not going to coach. Like, we shouldn't have to coach effort and toughness and physicality. Our job is to find players that have those qualities. And then when you get on the football field, like, there's your opportunity to play physical.

[Seth Payne]

When I'm watching the offense, I'm trying to, you know, I did. I always remind myself, okay, look, if. If this was a combined practice versus the LA Rams, the Texans defense is going to get theirs. They're going to make some plays. And that you can't judge. Like yesterday, you know, the offense had some bad plays, but they also had some good plays. And so I try to compare the offense to where they were in training camp last year. It feels like with the offensive line and the tight ends, it just feels like it's a cleaner operation. And it's hard to judge sometimes, you know, in camp how far a run would have gone. But I know that it. It just looks better and it looks more uniform, and it looks like guys are moving in lockstep better than they were last year. Has that been your impression? Yeah.

[Nick Caserio]

I think what you want to see in practice, there's going to be give and take. The defense is going to make some plays, the offense is going to make some plays. Hopefully you're learning from one another. I would say there's a lot of communication. You can see we want to encourage the communication because really, what you're Trying to do offensively on the front, you're just trying to get the blockers distributed appropriately. So make sure we're. We talked about this hat on the hat on a hat. And it's as simple as just, okay, I have to block Sean. Make sure everybody knows that we're working to Sean. All right.

[Seth Payne]

Are you going to find a block, Sean? It's a difficult. A lot of people question. A lot of people on social media have done it seven years.

[Nick Caserio]

But I think what we've been able to do, there's multiple examples of being able to get plays started. And ultimately the running back is going to have to deal with a free player, whether it's a perimeter player at a corner or even a second level player. So there's going to be a free player at some point, knowing who the free player is, and so the back understands that. So overall, the group has worked really hard. There's a lot of communication, and we're just trying to string positive plays together and try to eliminate the negative plays and just kind of get plays started. And if we do that, then hopefully we can just move the ball down the field.

[Matt Pendergast]

I know you've been asked about the offensive line, about, you know, is there a certain point where you want to find the five, five best guys? All those things. This, this is about as fluid a group as I can remember in terms of how you guys are mixing and matching in training camp to the point where, you know, we joke about how, you know, he's the media. We got to kind of stay buttoned up as to who's on the depth chart and things like that. It's almost impossible to report anything because you guys are doing so much shuffling around. Do you and d' Ameco, after each practice, is there some element of, like, okay, if we had to play a game on Sunday, this would be our fight. I'm not asking to say who they are, but how does that evaluation evolve over the course of training camp?

[Nick Caserio]

Sure, you talk about it every day. Look at what's going on in practice. Okay, are we getting the players the right reps in the appropriate spots?

[Seth Payne]

Or.

[Nick Caserio]

You know what, maybe we need to see a little bit more of this player in this spot. I mean, I think if we had to play a game today, like, we feel we could play with nine or 10 offensive linemen and be able to go out there and play competitively. So sometimes you don't really notice the difference between the groups. We're shuffling a lot of people in there. So. Okay, here's the first group that goes on the field. Okay, then here's the next group that comes on the field. Sometimes you don't see a market different.

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[Nick Caserio]

Sometimes there's plays where maybe the second group looks a little bit better than the first group. So in the end, we're just trying to figure out, all right, who are the five best guys? We're certainly not there yet, but we feel pretty comfortable that there's nine or ten players that we have to put on the field and play a game tomorrow. We feel like we could at least

[Seth Payne]

be competitive as an overall group with Marlon Klein. I think, Sean, you're an old man. Tell me if I'm using this term correctly because I feel like this is what I want to say. I feel like with Marlon Klein, there's an element of seeing him on the hoof like that. When you see him in person, it's different than maybe what you saw is

[Nick Caserio]

that I don't even know what that means. That's like this vernacular that people use

[Seth Payne]

where it sounds very sexy, sexy, but it doesn't really get on the hoof. We just want to be talking about horses. I looked it up to be sure. Anonymous executive I knew Sean wouldn't know to view something live in person or its natural, unedited and living State.

[Nick Caserio]

Are we going to Kentucky Derby or.

[Seth Payne]

Well, you saw him in his natural condition at Michigan. I like when I saw Marlon Klein. You watch film of all these guys that you draft and everything. And then when I saw him in person and watched him move around a little bit, I thought, oh, okay. There's something more to him than necessarily what you might see on film. He's a big. He looks like a retired offensive lineman. Like, he's got a big frame, he's got a catch radius and he moves. I don't like, I hate to use the term deceptively fast, but I think there's a little bit of that element to it that he's deceptively fast.

[Nick Caserio]

No, I think he articulated well. Those are some of the things that we felt we saw on his tape. He'd been in Michigan for four years. They've had a lot of good tight ends come through that program. He didn't play as much, but the size component, I mean, he's six. Six. I don't know what his measurables are. Six, five and a half, six, six, 255. I mean, he's a big human being. He's got good length, he's got good thickness. A year from now, he's probably going to look a little bit different. Hopefully it looks even better. But I think the thing that stands out, at least for the first couple weeks, like his willingness, his toughness on the line of scrimmage, like you're going to have to block. I mean, we're working against some of the best players, their respective positions in the league and Will Daniil and, you know, so far he hadn't really backed down, which is what you want to see. So he's going to have some good plays, going to have some plays, and I'm sure he's going to want back, but hopefully he's learning and can improve. But, you know, the things that you're seeing, Seth, I mean, we felt those are some of the things that we saw in Michigan and hopefully we continue to grow and develop them.

[Matt Pendergast]

That's an interest. That's the room I'm most interested in, Nick, is the tight end room because of the depth that you guys have created there with drafting Marlin, bringing in Foster Moreau, and you've got guys there already with Dalton Schultz and Kate Stover and Brevin Jordan have done good things for this franchise. So that's a lot of names in that room. When you're. When you're looking, you know you're getting down to a 53 man roster.

[Seth Payne]

There's.

[Matt Pendergast]

With that room in particular with a diverse set of skills, how much do other positions maybe factor into who you end up keeping in the tight end room?

[Nick Caserio]

No, I think these are some of the discussions we're probably going to have. There's some positions where numbers wise, maybe it's a little bit more than we've had in years past, so then something else is going to have to give. So we're not there yet, but you kind of have to start to look ahead a little bit and plan. So if you're heavier at one spot, it means you're going to be a little bit lighter in another spot. You might have to carry depth at that position off the roster. So that's part of the puzzle. We're trying to piece the puzzle together here a little bit with the information that we have. To your point, Shawn, that room, you have a very varied skill sets amongst the different players and various levels of experience. So, you know, it's a good group. They got a good attitude. You know, they're all available right now, which that's always the one thing you can never really bank on. But right now, like, it's a good group to have on the field and give yourself hopefully some flexibility.

[Seth Payne]

Offensive I think one thing that d' Amico said the other day that was interesting, he talked about the veteran offensive lineman having to learn different techniques or newer techniques, basically operating the way that Cole Popovich wants him to operate. Is it, is that anything that's drastically different or is it little nuances and learning the scheme and all that, it's

[Nick Caserio]

probably a little bit more nuanced. When a player is further along in his career development 6, 7, 8, 9 years, and if he's been with one particular coach or one particular system, there's going to be some things that carry over. Maybe there's some techniques that are going to be new to that player. But I mean, that's a challenge. So I think each year you're going to see a little bit of that take place, but it's no different for us than it is for probably for other teams.

[Matt Pendergast]

Nick Casario, Texans executive vice president and general manager, joining us here on Payne and Pendergast on Sports Radio 610. Okay, so last time, last time we spoke with you, it was in early June and you were, you were very complimentary of C.J. spring that he was having. You know, we asked generally about the offense and you brought up how CJ Was kind of the linchpin of how things were going offensively a week or so into training camp. What are you seeing from CJ so far?

[Nick Caserio]

Yeah, a lot of the lot of the same things. The big thing is that position we've talked about on the show. It's just making good, sound decisions with the football and not trying to not make a play up, but try to force a play. Just take what the defense gives you. And I think you've seen multiple examples in practice. Whether we've made an adjustment or we've gone to the first read, you know, it's just. You don't want to be too cute sometimes. I mean, football, it's a simple game sometimes that we make hard. But he's really done a good job. I think he's embraced the ownership of the offense, the communication, really the communication, the quarterback and the offensive line. Going back to the earlier discussion, like that's the most critical component of, of offensive football. So if everybody's on the same page and everybody's kind of seeing things the same way and then to get that information out to the perimeter of the formations that are receivers, you know, we've had some adjustments, we've had some examples where we were hotted and we were able to execute the hot. We've had some other situations where we had a site adjust. Maybe the quarterback did the right thing and then maybe the skill player didn't. So those are things that you kind of work through and then you hey, what did you see? Here's what I'm thinking on that play. So that kind of two way discourse is important. And I think you've seen that not only on the practice field, but a lot of that takes place inside in the classroom.

[Seth Payne]

The. I can't remember if we talked about this with you before or not, but back when Ryan Fitzpatrick was here, he got benched during a portion of the season for Ryan Mallett. Ryan Mallet came in and you know, Fitzpatrick went to Harvard, 50 on the Wonderlic, all of that. Veteran NFL quarterback Mallett sat on the sideline and watched, or excuse me, Fitzpatrick sat and watched Mallet operate for a couple games. And when Fitzpatrick came back, he said that he learned a lot from watching Ryan Mallett because Mallet had been in New England. He knew what Bill o' Brien wanted and how the system was supposed to operate. And I've always felt that was really interesting because Fitzpatrick was a super smart dude, but there was something about this system and understanding the way it's supposed to look that he just, he quite wasn't quite getting it until he saw Ryan Mallet do it. Is that. Is there some of that with cj where, man, it takes. It takes time in this system to really figure out all of the moving parts and how it's supposed to look and, like, what kind of urgency you have to have.

[Nick Caserio]

It takes time. I mean, even going back to Brady, I mean, it probably took him like, three or four years until he really, like, had it. And then essentially, over the course of the rest of his career, you're kind of making some tweaks and adjustments. So it takes time, but it's nothing that you can't accomplish without, you know, intentional work and just communication. And there has to be a constant dialogue and discourse between offensive coordinator, quarterback, coach, the players, because in the end, when you're on the field, you're just. You want to be able to rely on each other to do the right thing. So it takes work, and you never. It's not going to get mastered overnight. It's constant evolution. It takes time, and sometimes it takes, I'd say, multiple years. So we're in the second year of this offensive system, so there's definitely been growth and development from kind of where we started a year ago to where we are currently.

[Matt Pendergast]

It had to be nice winning three Super Bowls while your quarterback's figuring it out.

[Seth Payne]

Well, yeah, Brady will tell you that, like, that he wasn't. Well, people, I saw somebody on. Somebody had this. This montage of, like, he said, b, quarterbacks don't operate young quarterbacks don't operate like this anymore. And it was a bunch of clips of Brady from, like, year 10 and beyond. Yeah, that's not a young quarterback. Brady didn't operate that way when he was a young quarterback.

[Nick Caserio]

There was. I mean, he said this, too. There was multiple iterations of his career.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Nick Caserio]

So kind of that. 01 to 04 period. All right. The offense was kind of evolving and taking shape, and he was working on some things as well. But then he got to the point, you know, where, okay, once. 04 to call it 05 to really 05 and 06, 07 was like, kind of like, whoa, we just kind of changed some things. But look, this is, I would say, offensive football and quarterback play in general. Every year you have to go back. And even. I don't care how long you've been in the system, you go back to ground zero and you start with the basic foundation play call terminology, mic identification, everything that goes into it, and you got to go out there and practice it, and the defense is going to give you something maybe you haven't Seen before, I would say our defense has done a pretty good job of. We've made some tweaks and adjustments to, relative to what we're seeing. So it forces you go back, how are we going to handle this? This is a different look. Hey, that's okay. Those are the things that are continually evolving and are always going to take place.

[Seth Payne]

I think Sean and I, at the end of the season, we're kind of doing like, okay, how do you, how do you fix some of these issues that they've had on offense or with C.J. and like, how do you make it better for C.J. and what's the, what's the biggest thing that you could do to make the biggest impact? The old 8020 principle. Am I using that right, Sean?

[Matt Pendergast]

I think so, yeah.

[Seth Payne]

He's a business guy.

[Matt Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

And it felt, it felt like, it felt like, all right, if we look at the biggest thing that could help out a quarterback that hasn't been there the last couple years, it would be a consistent rushing attack. And it felt like almost every move you guys made this offseason on the offensive side of the ball was through a lens of how do we fix this rushing attack? Is that, is that, is that fair to say that was the theme?

[Nick Caserio]

Well, I mean, look, offensive football, be able to run the ball is always going to be important. When you look at, I mean, I think Buffalo had the first or second ranked rushing offense in the league and they also have like an MVP quarterback. Yeah. So, like, your ability to run the football and control the game and play the game on your terms is always going to be important. So what is that going to look like? All right, who's on your team? What are some things that you can accentuate or maybe this player does well or, you know, the offensive line. Okay. You want to be able to play a certain way. So we try to look at. All right, we're starting looking at the 26 season. We're trying to build the best team possible. So we're always trying to improve in whatever area that we can. Now, we haven't played a game yet, so we're not really sure exactly what it's going to look like, but you're look across the league, like even Seattle, I mean, I think Walker, the MVP of the Super Bowl. Yep. I mean, so, I mean, how many times the running back been the MVP of a Super Bowl? So in the end, your ability to run the football is ultimately, there's a correlation between winning and losing because in the end you're going to have to get tough yards. And when you get into a red area, the space is confined. So how are you going to score? Well, you got to be able to run it in or you got to be able to throw it in from the fringe. So, you know, I'd say this year isn't any different than previous years. So we're trying to build a good team and we're trying to be as balanced in offense as possible, Understanding some games might have to run it more. Some games you might have to throw it more. Who's the opponent? What do they do? Well, I mean, that's all part of the calculus.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, that was part of it, was that it's not even just, I don't care where you finish in the rushing rankings at the end of the year. It's that when you get down into the red zone. Exactly what you were talking about. All right, let's take it. Let's look at what the offensive production was last year. And if you just are a better red zone offense, which has helped out a lot by being able to run the ball, then, man, it's a. It's a much different appearance.

[Nick Caserio]

This game is about points. So where points, points are in a red area. So like, how do you get the ball into the end zone? So really our situational execution, third down, a red area, if we can improve those areas as a team, because even defensively, you know, there were times where maybe we didn't play as well as we needed to in a red area and on third down. So if those are a couple areas that we can improve as a team, then maybe that's going to help our performance, you know, on a week to week basis.

[Matt Pendergast]

How much did David Montgomery's proficiency and short yardage factor into him being the right guy for you guys?

[Nick Caserio]

Well, I think it's just part of his profile that wouldn't say Sean has anything that one specific quality. But short yardage, I mean, those third and one, third and two, fourth and one, you got to be able to get a tough yard. So some backs may be a little bit better than others. The big thing is you're trying to go forward, you're trying to move the pile. It's going to be condensed space, it's going to be physical, you got to play strong, you're going to have to break tackles, you're going to be a free defender, kind of what we talked about a little bit earlier. But overall, I mean, David's been a pretty versatile player. He's been able to get yards and he's Been a pretty, I would say, probably underrated player in a passing game. Well, they got really good hands.

[Seth Payne]

They love him in Detroit, the fans. I mean, just like, ever. I've never had so many people show up, like, from another fan base in my mentions and be so nice. They're like, it's not. They're not. They're not. Usually a guy comes in and a bunch of other fans will say, like, ah, he's a bum. Anyway, it's the. Like, these Lions fans love David Montgomery, right?

[Nick Caserio]

I mean, he's the epitome. He's the ultimate professional. He doesn't really say much. He lets his actions do the talking. Works very, very hard. He plays tough, he plays physical. He was a great representation of the Detroit Lions program, what Coach Campbell and Brad Holmes have built. I mean, in some respects, our two programs are pretty similar. So I think there was an appreciation. I don't want to speak for those fans, but there was an appreciation for what David brought to the table and what he provided and kind of his selflessness and being able to go out there and just play with toughness and physicality on a week to week basis.

[Seth Payne]

I don't think I've ever heard a guy in his introductory press conference say one of the things that he liked about this team was I saw the way that they practiced when we had the combined practice. Like, that's especially for an old. Like I say air quotes, aging, running back. Like, that's a. Like, that was really cool because that's. I mean, that's what d' Amico wants. Obviously, these guys who care about practicing

[Nick Caserio]

players talk and they kind of know, all right, what a program. They don't know what a program is about. But, you know, when you see some things, you can make an extrapolation about what you think that program is about. So, again, we have a tremendous amount of respect for the Lions and the way they run their program. And, you know, our practice with them last year were very, very productive. So, you know, the fact the players ultimately, like, they want to go somewhere where it kind of fits their profile of what they're looking for. And, you know, we're fortunate that, you know, going back to earlier, players want to be here and be a part of what we're doing. But in the end, you know, we want to play tough, hard, physical football with consistent effort and physicality.

[Matt Pendergast]

I want to circle back to CJ For a second. Nick, something you said, something CJ Said the same day out here at training camp. You talked about productive conversations that have taken place with CJ's camp. CJ himself was asked about it and he was, you know, he was, he seemed upbeat about it as well. I'm not asking for a status on where things are with that. I'm just curious, from a GM's perspective, how important is that communication, how constant is that communication, even when a deal's not getting done, to kind of just keep. I think CJ's handled the whole thing really, really well and very maturely. How important is that communication with both sides in kind of keeping, keeping the house in order, if you will?

[Nick Caserio]

Yeah, I mean, look, we have an open door policy around here. D' Ameco's that way. It's the way I operate. So you're never going to be close minded in whichever way is the wind blowing. So I mean, you're going to treat it like professionals, treat it like adults. Understand there's a business component of what we do on both sides. So we're certainly sensitive to the players in that respect. And you know, they understand, like we're trying to do the best we can as a team. We're trying to look, in the end, we're trying to keep as many good players around here for as long as we can, as long as possible. Sometimes it works the way you want it. Sometimes maybe it takes a little bit more work or the timetable doesn't necessarily match up the way everybody else wants it to. But again, the most important thing is just be honest, be real, keep the lines of communication open and be respectful to the other party. And if you get a resolution, great. If you don't, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's not going to work itself out. It just means it's going to maybe take place at a later point.

[Seth Payne]

I get the feeling like we're probably not going to see C.J. up at the podium at any point this training camp whining about the offers that you've made him. I feel like he's, I think he's handled it really well and keeping it quiet and just, you know, saying, I'm letting my agent handle that stuff. Is that, do you guys ever, is that just something that, do you even have that discussion with players about, like, let's keep this quiet, let's keep this in house. Or is it just something that's generally, if you've got a good relationship with the agent, it doesn't, doesn't concern you?

[Nick Caserio]

Yeah, that's the most important thing. Look, we understand there's a lot of eyeballs on our sport and there's a lot of contracts that big name, big time players that I mean, I think again, I mean I read this morning like Gibbs, you know, they reached an agreement on his contract. Excuse me, but there's always eyeballs on, I would say players and you want to be respectful, but in the end, the more you just keep the communication amongst yourself, like we're respectful of the fans and we're fortunate as there's interest. But in the end, the best way to communicate is directly to one another. And if you have an issue or have a question about something, let's just come and sit and talk like an adult. So I think the more professional everybody handles it, the better off in the end. In the long run, everybody wins as a result.

[Matt Pendergast]

You've been, you've been pretty forthcoming both on this show and I think in press conferences about Tank and his saga and where he's been at with that. And last week when you did your press availability, you taught, you kind of clarified things. Not on the PUP list, but it's so he can do certain things out here and we're going to see where things are week to week, I guess. So I guess now that we've got you sitting here, where are we at with Tank?

[Nick Caserio]

Yeah, he's getting a little bit closer, making progress. We've done some things sort of like after practice individually, you know, ramp up wise. At some point he'll graduate to going into more drills in practice. At some point, whenever that takes place, we're probably going to at least need to see him go out there in a game in some capacity so that the first time he's playing isn't potentially in a regular season game. So we're just trying to be very measured, very smart. And we've talked about this. Each player is kind of their own entity, so we probably try to do what we think is best for, for each individual player. So Tanks work really hard. You know, he's certainly made progress and I think he's getting a little bit closer to whatever that next step is going to be.

[Matt Pendergast]

Do you feel like he's going to play in a preseason game at some point here?

[Nick Caserio]

We'll see. Yeah, it might be more of. So you can go through the mechanics of going back on the field, warming up, getting in the huddle, not necessarily have to go out there and play 50 plays in a game sometimes. And I want to speak for a player, there's just a little bit of maybe a mental block that you want to. Okay, there's an. You're graduating to the next step. So you go from rehab. Okay. Then you get from rehab to practice. Then you go from practice to call it a real game or, you know, a real situation.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Nick Caserio]

So there's steps that players have to go through and you know, there's a mental component as well that we're certainly

[Matt Pendergast]

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I'm Jenna Fisher. And I'm Angela Kinsey and together we have the podcast Office Ladies. Just because we finished rewatching the Office does not mean we're going anywhere. Every Wednesday we'll be sharing even more exclusive stories from the Office and our friendship with brand new guests. Plus, you can revisit all the Office Ladies rewatch episodes every Monday with new bonus tidbits before every episode. So follow and listen to Office Ladies on the free Odysee app and wherever you get your podcasts. That feeling when you're trying to build your credit and it's like over and over again. Good news. Chase Credit Journey can help you with a personalized score improvement plan provided by Experian. So when you still need that credit built, you have the guidance you need. You can even get a Chase Secure Banking account with no monthly service fee if you're 17 to 24 years old. Hallelujah.

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[Nick Caserio]

So the physical is the physical, the mental is the mental. We can't extrapolate necessarily what a player, how he's feeling or thinking, you know, but we try to just make sure that we support them and put them in a position where they can go out there and feel comfortable, confident as possible.

[Matt Pendergast]

People are anxious, and I know Tank is the most anxious of all to get out there, Nick, but I know you. I don't know if you're out here. He got the stone cold Steve Austin pop the other day when he walked out here. Crowd was cheering loud for Tank Dell.

[Nick Caserio]

Did they break the glass?

[Matt Pendergast]

They should have. That's what we need. We need.

[Seth Payne]

He looked at me like. I know what the hell that means. I know. What's he doing?

[Matt Pendergast]

What's he doing?

[Nick Caserio]

I've never seen his introduction.

[Seth Payne]

I've seen a little bit of it. I do the beer stuff.

[Matt Pendergast]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He. The glass breaks and then he walks out and the crowd goes crazy. That's all I was saying.

[Seth Payne]

Glass breaks.

[Nick Caserio]

There's a glass.

[Matt Pendergast]

They had, like at some. At WrestleMania, they had like a glass door and it just shatters. And he walks out.

[Seth Payne]

You know, he's got the biggest. The best badass high school intro I've ever seen. Did you ever see Will Anderson's high school? I have not actually where they introduced or at least in this one game, they've got the. They've got a gigantic cage and the team is in a cage. And then like, they introduce the team and they. Will Anderson, everybody bust out of this cage and run out of the chains.

[Nick Caserio]

He walks around the building with a scowl sometimes

[Matt Pendergast]

that he's scary. Nick Kasario joining us here. Texans executive vice president, that is.

[Seth Payne]

Oh, sorry. No, no, no, go ahead. People know he's the general manager. No, as you're talking about making that, like that step by step progression. I'm almost thinking about Tank, like, if he was a rookie, because there's a big jump from the speed and Intensity of a preseason game on into the regular season. So yeah, getting that one step in of, okay, you're out here at practice, but then you go into a one up, one level intensity up into preseason instead of going straight into a regular season.

[Nick Caserio]

And the reality is some players may need that, other players may not. So it's case by case. And just trying to figure out like what makes the most sense.

[Seth Payne]

John, let me tell you about the first time I ever dropped into coverage in an NFL game. Like, how was your back? I don't know what's going on here. However fast they were moving in practice. Tracer Bull.

[Matt Pendergast]

Your Madden score is 87 at the end of your.

[Seth Payne]

No, you know what?

[Matt Pendergast]

The biggest.

[Seth Payne]

The biggest insult. I never knew that was good. I didn't know that was good until he. No, the funniest thing about the biggest insult when they have you drop back as a nose tackle is that they don't even coach you up on it. They're like, like, listen, yeah. You're genuinely just a mound of flesh out there. Okay. I'm like, yeah, but I gotta be looking for number three, right? Don't bother yourself with a simple arithmetic, idiot. Just get back in there in the hook spot. Yeah.

[Matt Pendergast]

Do you have anything in the scouting report about Seth's backpedal back then?

[Nick Caserio]

No, we didn't have that.

[Matt Pendergast]

No.

[Seth Payne]

They gave me an 11 on the vertical.

[Matt Pendergast]

His hip flexor. Mad people did an 11.

[Nick Caserio]

Oh no. Madness.

[Seth Payne]

Out of 100.

[Matt Pendergast]

Out of 100. Then he got 41 the next they saw his hops.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Matt Pendergast]

Do you pay attention? Any of The Madden score, NFL top 100, anything you knew? 87 was good though.

[Nick Caserio]

Well, I'm like using off of a academic scale.

[Matt Pendergast]

Okay.

[Nick Caserio]

He's a B plus, 88, 90.

[Seth Payne]

He's pretty good.

[Matt Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

Who is my comp? Your comp was the same score.

[Matt Pendergast]

The player this year who has the same score you did is Zach Allen.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, Racist. That. Oh, yeah. No, I'm talking about Madden.

[Matt Pendergast]

Yeah, Madden. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nick Kucerio joining us here. I'm curious this, because I think you guys make a habit of bringing in football junkies. You know, like guys that just love every aspect of football. Who is the biggest? And you can name multiple names if you want to. Who's the biggest football junkie on the team?

[Nick Caserio]

On the team.

[Matt Pendergast]

On the team.

[Nick Caserio]

Oh my gosh.

[Matt Pendergast]

Yeah, yeah.

[Seth Payne]

So like when it comes to like just wanting to know every aspect of

[Matt Pendergast]

it, just whatever Nick's definition of a

[Nick Caserio]

junkie, I would say Petrie Kamari, William Aziz, Henry. I mean, those guys are Henry's.

[Seth Payne]

And Henry's an interesting one because, like, Henry Towa Toa is a guy that I think, like, the worry where he's. Where he is now compared to what I thought he could be as a rookie, you can see that a lot of it has been, like, he did transform his body, but then also, like a big part of his game has to be just the recognizing route, taking

[Nick Caserio]

the right leverage, all of that.

[Seth Payne]

And you can tell he's really worked on that.

[Nick Caserio]

He's working really hard. So this is what, year four for him. So from where he was as a rookie to where he is now, he's made as much progress as anybody. He works really hard, very instinctive. We've challenged him some areas. Hey, here are the things that we want you to improve. And he's responded accordingly. But he just has a certain mindset and demeanor and overall mentality. Again, like going back to kind of your question. Yeah, I mean, we're fortunate. We have a lot of players with that type of mentality and mindset, you know, which is. That's what works and that's who d' Amico is. That's how he was as a player. And, you know, that has necessarily changed between how many years ago that was to. To where we are now.

[Matt Pendergast]

Well, on this defense, too, there's a lot of guys that get a lot of attention on this defense at the All Pro and Pro bowl level, things like that. But just, I mean, Henry's a guy, you know, Reed Blankenship, bringing him in. Tommy Togi is a guy. Yeah, like, Tommy's a good example. I feel like it's. Yeah, you guys have a nice top layer of really elite talent there, but, boy, on this defense, it's. That to me, I guess I think I'm just me saying this subjectively. That next tier of players is like almost the glue that holds the whole thing together. Right.

[Nick Caserio]

Well, I mean, you know, not to use this phrase, but the notion of glue guys or. I mean, it's actually. It's pretty good. It's a pretty good podcast, actually. Actually as well. I mean, it's Alex Smith, Shane Battier, I mean, it's. But anyways, you need guys who, like, just embrace their role. I mean, Tommy, I don't think he said like two words, like, since the offseason started to where he is now, he just lets his performance kind of do the talking for him. So who just embrace their role and who take the coaching and who improved and gotten better. Like, Tommy's another example of a guy brought him in like October of 24. And from where he was to where he was to where he is now, I mean, you've seen, I mean, d' Amico's talked about him. I don't know. I don't know. Almost every day at the podium, but

[Matt Pendergast]

it's almost every day he did this week. Yeah. Yeah. So it's. Yeah, 40 minutes flies by.

[Nick Caserio]

Man. That's already 40 minutes.

[Matt Pendergast]

Yeah, we're 40. We got like 30 seconds left. Yeah. Yeah.

[Nick Caserio]

Oh.

[Seth Payne]

Undrafted rookie free agent to adopt last year. Casey Osai and Jackson Woodard. One of those guys is back in the fold this year.

[Matt Pendergast]

Osai.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Nick Caserio]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

Right now my leader in the clubhouse is no Whittington.

[Nick Caserio]

Yeah. Noah's done a pretty good job. Yeah. Nobody. He's limited in there. Limited spring. He kind of was coming off a little bit of a toe. We're just trying to get him ready for training camp. But I mean, he's, he's gone out there and, you know, he's done a pretty job. Good toughness, got good straight line speed. Yeah. I mean, we'll see how it goes. Probably gonna get a bunch of opportunities here in the preseason to carry the ball.

[Matt Pendergast]

No doubt. Texans executive vice president and general manager Nick Casario. Nick, we always enjoy it, man.

[Nick Caserio]

Appreciate it. Always good to visit with you guys.

[Matt Pendergast]

Yeah, you too. You too. Appreciate the time. Nick Kasario Join Ever walk past a place for rent and wish you could just take a peek inside? Maybe even explore the layout? Envision the natural light streaming through the windows. Or plan where your vinyl record collection would go. At apartments.com you can with tools like their 3D virtual tours, you can see the exact unit you could be living in. Really envision yourself in your new home. With apartments.com the place to find a

[Seth Payne]

place, the snack wrap plus Caesar sauce equals extra crispy chicken Caesari. Greatness sounds delicious. Caesar sauce at McDonald's for a limited time.

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[Nick Caserio]

Hi, I'm Pj Vogt and I want

[Matt Pendergast]

to tell you about my podcast search engine.

[Nick Caserio]

We try to make sense of the world one question at a time. No question too big, no question too small.

[Matt Pendergast]

We will even answer your question if you send them in stuff like what

[Nick Caserio]

happens when a cemetery goes out of business? What should we do about teens using AI to do their homework?

[Matt Pendergast]

Who buys luggage at the airport luggage store?

[Nick Caserio]

Follow and listen to Search engine in partnership with Odysee wherever you get your podcasts.

[Seth Payne]

As a fan chosen for the halftime challenge, I love sports for a chance to win the big prize.

[Matt Pendergast]

But when my half court heaves only

[Seth Payne]

goes half the distance, how embarrassing for him. I wonder is sport clips better than sports?

[Matt Pendergast]

Because Sport Clips haircuts is sports on TV plus an expert haircut, hot steam

[Seth Payne]

towel and massaging shampoo tear up his comically large check which is better than sports plus public embarrassment Sport clips. It's a game changer. Check it [e-mail].