Carlos Beltran talks about the Astros cheating scandal for the first time

Summary

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Payne & Pendergast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Carlos Beltrán Talks About the Astros Cheating Scandal for the First Time
Date: July 21, 2026
Hosts: Seth Payne & Sean Pendergast
Podcast: Payne & Pendergast (Audacy)

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Episode Overview

This episode centers around Carlos Beltrán’s first public comments on the Houston Astros’ 2017 sign-stealing scandal, given ahead of his Hall of Fame induction. Payne and Pendergast break down the implications of Beltrán’s statements, his current role with the Mets, and the wider impact on the Astros’ legacy and leadership. The discussion dives deep into issues of blame, organizational responsibility, and what Beltrán’s perspective means for others connected to the scandal.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Astros' Recent Performance and Lighthearted Banter

• [00:35 – 03:01]
  • The episode opens with the hosts celebrating an Astros win, featuring standout performances by Jeremy Peña and Yordan Alvarez.
  • Notable Tone: Playful debate about whether hoping for a specific player to get an RBI makes you a bad fan.
  • Quote: “Does it make me a bad fan that last night when Jeremy Pena came up with the bases loaded, I was hoping that he would get out so that Yordan would then come up with the bases loaded and get a chance for a grand slam?” – Sean Pendergast [01:23]

Carlos Beltrán: The Scandal, Hall of Fame, and Mets Role

• [03:01 – 04:19]
  • Carlos Beltrán is about to be inducted into the Hall of Fame and is working in the Mets’ front office.
  • The Mets, having recently fired manager Carlos Mendoza, face discussion about bringing Beltrán back as manager.
  • The relativity of punishment: “It proves that if you were somehow involved with the Astros sign stealing scandal, it is possible for you to get into the Hall of Fame someday.” – Sean [03:06]

Could Jeff Luhnow Return? Revisiting Astros Leadership

• [03:49 – 06:13]
  • Speculation on whether Jeff Luhnow could return to the Astros, given that faces of the scandal (like A.J. Hinch and possibly Beltrán) have resurfaced in prominent roles.
  • “If they brought Jeff Luhnow back, I think that would get people legitimately excited.” – Sean [04:16]
  • Discussion of whether a Luhnow return could spark another organizational reset, reminiscent of the original “tanking for talent” rebuild.
  • “There’s a difference between building a team and… sustaining that success. They’re two completely different challenges.” – Seth [05:44]

Carlos Beltrán’s Feelings on Being Singled Out

• [06:22 – 07:09]
  • Beltrán expresses feeling unfairly targeted: the only player named in MLB’s official report, lacking union protection after retirement.
  • “He is clearly upset about being singled out… He was sort of this man without a country.” – Sean [06:32]

Breaking Down the Scandal’s Origins and Organizational Involvement

• [07:10 – 09:21]
  • Mythbusting: Astros’ methods were allegedly less advanced than those used by other clubs at the time.
  • “When Beltrán got to Houston… [the sign-stealing setup] was way behind what some other teams were doing.” – Seth [08:02]
  • Emphasis that responsibility extended beyond just Beltrán; included front office and analytics departments.

The “Being Better Than Everybody Else” Mentality

• [08:31 – 09:21]
  • Beltrán’s quote from The Athletic supports the show’s long-running nickname for the scandal.
  • Quote: “We felt that our system was better than any other system in baseball.” – Carlos Beltrán, as quoted by Sean [09:18]
  • The hosts riff on the idea that the Astros were fined most severely because they were best at it, not because they were sole participants.
  • “A lot of teams were doing it. The Astros are just better at it. So, Lance Armstrong and doping… He was better at it than everybody else.” – Seth [08:38]

Accountability and Who Knew What

• [09:21 – 12:47]
  • Skepticism about Beltrán’s “top to bottom” claim—meaning did all players/managers really participate or approve?
  • “Do you believe Beltran when he says from top to bottom?” – Seth [10:00]
  • “No, because that would… include Altuve.” – Sean [10:02]
  • Reference to players (e.g., Brian McCann, Jose Altuve) and manager A.J. Hinch who reportedly opposed the system.
  • Discussion on “plausible deniability”—front office and management turning a blind eye while the scheme unraveled.
  • “That may be him implicating management in this thing.” – Sean [10:49]
  • “There’s always disagreement about something. And we’ve got reports of some teams… or managers that didn’t like it.” – Seth [12:44]

The Absurdity of the Astros’ Method

• [12:47 – 13:49]
  • While the Astros were punished most, their “caveman” method—banging on trash cans—contrasts with other teams’ sophisticated tech (Apple watches, etc).
  • “The Astros best system was them like cavemen banging on a trash can.” – Sean [13:12]
  • The hosts mock the hypocrisy of rival teams who claim innocence while also allegedly cheating, just with different tools.

The Evolution of Sign-Stealing and MLB Paranoia

• [13:49 – 14:25]
  • As the Astros’ scheme became less effective, league-wide paranoia set in, leading to innovations like PitchCom for secure sign calling.
  • “By the time it got to the World Series, remember, there was broad paranoia around baseball.” – Seth [13:52]
  • Noted the resulting five-hour games, multiple mound visits, and universal suspicion between teams.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “We felt that our system was better than any other system in baseball.”
  — Carlos Beltrán (via Sean Pendergast, quoting The Athletic) [09:18]
• “A lot of teams were doing it. The Astros are just better at it.”
  — Seth Payne [08:38]
• “He is clearly upset about being singled out… He was sort of this man without a country.”
  — Sean Pendergast [06:32]
• “There’s a difference between building a team and… sustaining that success. They’re two completely different challenges.”
  — Seth Payne [05:44]
• “When Beltran got to Houston… [their sign-stealing setup] was way behind what some other teams were doing.”
  — Seth Payne [08:02]
• “The Astros’ best system was them like cavemen banging on a trash can.”
  — Sean Pendergast [13:12]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:35 – 03:01: Astros win recap, playful Peña/Alvarez banter
• 03:01 – 04:19: Carlos Beltrán’s Hall of Fame induction, Mets rumors
• 04:19 – 06:13: Could Jeff Luhnow return? Organizational reset speculation
• 06:22 – 07:09: Beltrán’s reaction to being singled out in the MLB report
• 07:10 – 09:21: The origins and execution of the sign-stealing scheme
• 09:21 – 12:47: Parsing “top to bottom,” accountability, and management’s role
• 12:47 – 13:49: Trash can method vs. tech cheating; rival hypocrisy
• 13:49 – 14:25: MLB-wide paranoia and the evolution of sign-calling

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Summary Notes

• The episode gives nuanced coverage of Carlos Beltrán’s career crossroads, how the Astros cheating scandal is discussed inside and outside of Houston, and evolving attitudes about accountability in sports.
• Hosts lean into humor and an insider’s tone, but they don’t hesitate to scrutinize team and player narratives.
• Beltrán’s remarks offer both vindication (“everyone did it”) and controversy (implicating management and staff), which Payne & Pendergast critically unpack.

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Recommended for:
Astros fans, baseball ethics followers, anyone interested in the ongoing repercussions of MLB’s sign-stealing era, and those curious about how a city’s flagship sports talk show digests a national scandal.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, guys, it's Daxton and Hayden from Blondies Out Loud.

[B]

And if you've ever thought about starting

[A]

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[C]

live from the West Point Lincoln and West Point Lincoln of Sugar Land Studios.

[A]

Here's Pain and Pendergast I Payne and Pendergast with you on a. On a Tuesday. Good to be with you. Astros win last night. Thank you. Astros win last night, eight to five. Jeremy Pena, grand slam. Jordan Alvarez, two home runs. Okay, Seth, you tell me. We'll get to Carlos Beltran here in just a second. He spoke to the athletic. The. He's in the Mets front office right now. He was manager of the Mets, but never managed a game because the being better than everybody else scandal was discovered and punishments were doled out. The Mets fired him. We get to that in a second. Real quick question. Does it make me a bad fan that last night when Jeremy Pena came up with the bases loaded? I was hoping that he would get out so that Yordon would then come up with the bases loaded and get a chance for a grand slam so he could pad his lead in rbi.

[C]

Oh, okay. You're upset with Pena for hitting that whole.

[A]

He's upset with Pena for hitting the grand slam. Why are you hogging all the RBIs when your team teammate who then hit a home run.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

The very next at bat hit a, you know, pretty selfish man.

[C]

Hit a single that scores a run. And we still. Yeah.

[A]

Keep the ball in the park. If you hit a fly ball.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Does it make me a bad fan?

[C]

No, No. I think that Yordon can handle himself. He doesn't need to. He doesn't need to pat his eyes.

[A]

And Jordan was hugging Pena and whatnot. Probably performatively.

[C]

To be clear, Jordan wasn't.

[A]

Jordan was fine with it. It was me that had the big issue.

[C]

I know a lot of people are wondering if Yordon was upset about the grand slam. He was cool.

[A]

He seemed cool with it, at least. You know, I don'. Jordan, thespian that he is.

[C]

Well, it was. No, but it ended up being. Boy, the drama would have been awesome, though, too, because it was Jordan's home run was on an O2 count. The first one was right.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. He's. He's the best hitter with two strikes in all of baseball.

[C]

In all of baseball.

[A]

You know my theory on this, I think sometimes Jordan gets down oh two just so he'll actually see a good. See a pitch. Yeah, that's my theory. I think Yordon, if he were to, you know, if he were to get up. If you're not. Gets up 220 with the count. He's walking.

[C]

It's kind of like waiting to start your term paper until the night before it's due. Because you do your best, you operate pressure and everything. Yeah, yeah. I guess it's a little bit different, but yeah, he doesn't get pitched to. It's boring out there unless there's two

[A]

strikes he doesn't give pitch to. I can see where just swinging things out of the zone just to get my favorite.

[C]

You're not. Intentional walks are when like they try to kind of pitch around him for a couple pitches and they're like, ah, screw it.

[A]

Screw it.

[C]

That's what I'm saying.

[A]

He gets up two zero. It's a walk. Yeah, yeah. He gets up two. Oh, it's a walk. So this Carlos Beltran interview that he did with the athletic Carlos Beltran is getting ready to go into the hall of Fame this weekend, which proves that if you were somehow involved with the Astro sign stealing scandal, it is possible for you to get into the hall of Fame someday. For those that are worried that Jose Altuve is never going to get in. He's going to get in someday. Don't worry. He's working. He's. This is. This part was interesting to me. He's working for the Mets in a special role in the front office right now. But apparently a lot of the chatter around the Mets because they fired Carlos Mendoza earlier this year.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Is why not give Carlos Beltran his shot at managing now? It's been seven years or whatever it is.

[C]

Yeah. AJ Hinch is managing. AJ Hinches has been for several years.

[A]

The thing that gets me thinking about with the Astros, if they make changes here, I do think the one change that, that would excite Astros fans, I think firing a spot and firing Dana Brown in a vacuum would. Would be a lot of Astros fans would feel okay. That's the right move. I think if they brought Jeff Luno back, I think that would get people legitimately excited. And I think the fact that guys from the sign stealing skin faces of the sign stealing scandal, in this case Carlos Beltran would be hired back by the team that fired him.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Feels like. I feel like the door's already open, but it feels like that would further open the door for. For Luno to come back here as

[C]

the g. The thing is, though, that Luna owns, like, 18 soccer teams, and he's just doing. I don't think he's. He's probably not interested. Yeah. I don't know.

[A]

Or not. I'm saying I'd like to have him back.

[C]

Yeah. I was. Yes. No, I think I'd love to have him back. That'd be cool. You know what? You know what Luno could do? Convince Crane to just hit the reset button. The. There'd be a level of. Usually what happens when teams tank is. Or hit the reset button is that it's with a new GM and nobody really believes that it's going to work where with Luno, people would be like, oh, okay, cool. We're doing this again. All right, here we go.

[A]

This.

[C]

That wouldn't be as bad as they were in 2013.

[A]

No. But. Well. And.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And boy.

[C]

But if it were minor reset, if

[A]

it were the equivalent of that reset, they'd be trading Jordan Alvarez.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, they traded Hunter Pence. They traded all the. They traded Lance Berkman, Roy Oswald. Now, they did those things before Ludo took the job.

[C]

You're right. And Wade did all those, and they cleared the deck. I don't think it would be as much of a hardcore reset. The Astros were kind of one of the last of the era of where a true tanking made sense. Sense.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, it doesn't. It doesn't. It doesn't work out as well anymore because, like, more teams are keen to.

[A]

That would be fascinating if he did, though.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, Luno trading away some of the very guys he drafted back in the day or traded for to rebuild. And that. Boy, the content you could do of comparing the stages of the rebuild they would be undergoing with Luno compared to the first rebuild.

[C]

Look, Luno. Sean, I don't know if you know this. He's a pretty bright guy, I think. Look, Luno. Luno understood probably better than anybody, man. There's a difference between building a team and. And then sustaining that success. They're two completely different challenges.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And that they were going to have to figure some things out about how to sustain it. It might just work out by happenstance that he got to. He got to forego that whole part of it. Right.

[A]

Right.

[C]

James Click and Dana Brown, you know, go through that misery of Trying to sustain it and then just come back in and do what you're good at.

[A]

He was in the CIA for six years.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And now he's back. I don't know what he was. I don't know why he left or why. Why he was gone. He just left.

[C]

He's a mysterious person.

[A]

And now he's back. Yeah. This article about Beltran is very interesting. A couple of things. One, he is clearly upset about being singled out.

[C]

Yeah. That was like the inventor of etc. Of the.

[A]

He's the only player mentioned in the report that Major League Baseball did.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

They didn't because. Because of the immunity that was granted to current players at the time.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

When they were doing interviews. By the time they were interviewing players about this whole thing, Beltran had retired. So he didn't have the. The union to kind of back him. And what it like he was sort of this man without a country. So he feels like as a result of all the players getting immunity and telling their story, that kept them out of the report ultimately. And he was made to be a bit of a. Maybe a scapegoat or at least maybe over representative of what the. What the.

[C]

I mean the scandal story goes that when he got to Houston and he looked at whatever methods they were using for stealing signs that it was.

[D]

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[C]

way behind what some other teams were doing. That was what was said that. Yeah, that in that. So people kind of look at him as like, oh, wow, he's the guy who got the ball rolling then. You remember that. Yeah. It also involved a whole bunch of people from the analytics side and everything else to make it all happen. So it wasn't, it wasn't like it was a one man show. It wasn't like Beltron was out there setting up cameras in the outfield or something. Now this, as far as we know.

[A]

This is as far as we know.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

This is a quote I knew you would like, because I believe it's you and Brandi collectively that coined the phrase. The. Being better than everybody else.

[C]

Being better than everybody else. Yeah. A lot of. A lot of teams were doing it. The Astros are just better at it. So Lance Armstrong and doping, like. Oh, sorry. He was better at it than everybody else.

[A]

Okay, so you ready? This is confirmation of the nickname being spot on.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

This is Carlos Beltran in this article. I know that as a team, we got together to do what we did, but I've got to tell you that this was not like one player's idea. This was a team being together from top to bottom to do something that we felt was going to help us win. And we also felt that other organizations, they had their system and people could say whatever, but the game of baseball has been played for 100 years. How you decipher your opposing team to take advantage of. We felt that our system was better than any other system in baseball. They were better at it.

[C]

Dang it.

[A]

I love that. That confirmed the nickname.

[C]

The only. The thing about this is that, like, whenever anybody gets caught cheating, like, the. The go to is like, well, everybody else was doing it. And I kind of, tongue in cheek, say that. I mean, realistically, it seems like there were maybe a third of the teams in the league, at least, that were using some form of electronic sign stealing. And that's not everybody. So I think there's a broad spectrum of teams and players that should have acted disgruntled versus others that should have kept their mouth shut. Cody Ballinger and the. So there was a gray area there I think that I also disagree with. Do you believe Beltran when he says from top to bottom?

[A]

No, because that would. That would include Altuve.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Or there were guys who didn't use.

[C]

Like Brian McCann didn't like it. Reportedly, there are a few players that just flat out did not like it. But you're kind of. You're going along to get along. I mean, AJ Hinch didn't reportedly like it. Smashing.

[A]

Okay, so that's that. That to me, the bringing up AJ Hinch, and I'll bring up Jeff Luno also, because I think. I still think there's people out there that. That thought that Luno may have Southern belled the whole thing a little bit when it came to the service.

[C]

What have these boys been up to?

[A]

I don't exactly.

[D]

I just.

[C]

This chicanery I've just been doing My business and I come home and find my houses in turmoil.

[A]

Yes. I think there's people that think that about Luno. When. When Beltran, if we're kind of parsing out what he's saying here, when he says this was a team being together from top to bottom, he. That may be him implicating management in this thing.

[C]

Yeah, that.

[A]

Yeah. The people above the players at least knew it was going on. Maybe they weren't down there saying, okay, we're going to put the monitor here and here's your bat to bang on the trash can. But they had awareness of it, I can tell you.

[C]

I know, like, back when steroids were rampant in football, there was a lot of, you know, willful ignorance on the part of people in management and whatever. Well, and in baseball, there's kind of like, all right, I don't know, guys are doing something, and I've heard stories, but I'm not gonna look into it too deep. Yeah. And we're just gonna go along. The results are good. Let's just. And you just kind of. It's a. It's an intentional. Oh, what's the old word from the Harrison Ford movie? The. The deniability. Plausible deniability.

[A]

Plausible deniability. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, I know there's. I'm aware of something that's going on, but I. I'm not gonna look into it because then I'm gonna.

[A]

Yeah, that's. Boy, you're thinking that you. I mean, you pointing that out, that top to bottom being in there, that if I were. If I were doing that interview and I got that quote and I don't know who wrote the article, I'd have to go look.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

My follow up to that would have been. What do you mean by top to bottom? Yeah, because it can mean the whole roster. It can mean the entire organization. And I think those things are relevant because there. There was an element to AJ Hinch and Jeff Luno that did they. You could tell they tried to distance themselves from it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, Hinch in the moment, trying to distance himself by not stopping it and by smashing a monitor with a bat, whatever, I guess trying to send a message that he wanted it stopped. And then Luno, by literally distancing himself.

[C]

Yeah, there were. You know, and some former Astros players have talked about the fact that Altuve and a few other guys just didn't want any part of it. The other teams were doing it. All of that. The top to bottom. I mean, like, I don't think you can say that about any organization. Ever in sports or otherwise where there's top to bottom agreement, there's always disagreement about something. And we've got reports of some teams and. Or managers that didn't like it. The funniest part, players and managers.

[A]

The funniest part about all this is that when. When Beltran says it was better than any other system in baseball. And the fact that the Astros are getting punished the most.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Of. Or got punished the most by anybody. Would indicate that maybe baseball feels that way too. Is that the other teams that were doing some form of sign stealing were using like advanced technology to do it. Like Apple watches and things like that. The Astros best system was them like cavemen.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Banging on they trash can.

[C]

That's why. That's why I got so disgusted with

[A]

me have this is.

[C]

And never didn't want to act like the Yankees ever did anything wrong at all with electronic signs stealing or didn't even participate. But he would, he would point that out. He's like, well, it's the technology. It's the technology. That's what it is. And then it turns into. You find out like, oh, wow, the Red Sox, the Yankees and other teams were using technology. It's the trash cans. That's what's different. It's not the technology, it's the trash cans. Oh, you mean that thing that the other team could clearly hear. Right. Might put two and two together and figure it out.

[A]

Took so long.

[C]

They did well and teams did start figuring it out.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And that's why it became less effective. And by the time it got to the World Series, remember, there was broad paranoia around baseball. I mean, we had Lance McCullers in studio. Lance was one of the guys who was saying that there needs to be some type of system. It would eventually become pitchcom because remember in the World Series, all the crossed up catchers and everything, like it was everybody, they were changing their calls every inning long.

[A]

The games.

[C]

Both those teams were so paranoid about what the other team was doing.

[A]

The games were like five hours long because there's eight. Jilly. That's why they had to make a limit on the trips to the mound too.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because of that World Series. All right, Pain and pender gas with you. All right, coming up next. I know over the last few decades there have been things with college football where we've said this is going to kill college football. Could this be the thing that actually kills? Popularity of college football is being discussed at SEC media days yesterday. We'll tell you what it is coming up next.

[C]

Listen, I don't know if I can hey there.

[D]

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