DeMeco Ryans gives us a scouting report on some of the guys

Summary

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Payne & Pendergast – August 3, 2026

Episode Theme:
A deep dive into the Houston Texans’ roster with head coach DeMeco Ryans’ scouting insights. Hosts Seth Payne and Sean Pendergast discuss player development, position flexibility, and the evolving defensive scheme, focusing on Kalin Bullock, Logan Hall, and Tommy Togei.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Seth Payne’s Madden Rating and Defensive Lineman Banter

• The episode opens with friendly ribbing about Seth Payne’s Madden rating when he played, drawing a comparison with current linemen and poking fun at their own surprise over Payne’s career.
  • Quote: "You accept praise like you're being handed a diagnosis." – Host [01:40]
  • Quote: "You had to go the white guy, huh?" – Seth Payne [01:23]

2. Kalen Bullock’s Growth & Defensive Backfield Versatility

• DeMeco Ryans’ Scouting Report:

  • Bullock’s communication and ability to generate takeaways are highlighted as elite.
  • His tackling has improved each year; he’s gaining versatility with disguises and pre-snap movement.
  • Adding Reed Blankenship to a more veteran secondary unlocks positional flexibility and creative looks.
  • Quote:
    • "Kalen's done a really good job of just working on his communication skills. We all know Kalen's greatest assets is being able to take the football away... He's well versed in what we're doing defensively now, continuing to work with his disguises..." – DeMeco Ryans [02:43]

• Analysis by Seth & Sean:

  • More experience and stability in the secondary reduces mental errors and enables more ‘wrinkles’ or schematic variety (disguises, rotations).
  • Bullock benefits most when he can leverage his range as a ‘center field’ safety but could also move up to the line depending on packages.
  • Quote:
    • "If there's an errant pass at all, it turns from an incompletion into a potential interception." – Seth Payne [03:46]

3. Logan Hall’s Role Amid Roster Changes

• DeMeco Ryans’ Scouting Report:

  • Hall returning from offseason surgery and acclimating to a new defensive scheme.
  • Praises Hall’s work ethic and progress in training camp but notes there’s a learning curve.
  • Quote:
    • "He just has to get used to the techniques and the things we're asking a D line to do... it'll take some time for him to get caught up." – DeMeco Ryans [05:28]

• Analysis by Seth:

  • Hall’s versatility: can play both inside (DT) and outside (DE), making him an emergency solution for various D-line injuries.
  • Comparison to Deanico Autry—Hall is even more of a genuine “inside-outside” lineman, providing flexibility for the coaching staff.
  • Highlights the game-plan-dependent nature of his deployment.
  • Quote:
    • "In some ways [Logan Hall] can be the replacement for Deanico Autry... but I think more so than Autry, they'd be more comfortable having him play defensive tackle in more situations." – Seth Payne [05:58]

4. Tommy Togei – The Texans’ Most Consistent Player?

• DeMeco Ryans’ Scouting Report:

  • Togei’s consistency and preparation set him apart.
  • Recognized for intelligence, awareness, and playmaking instincts.
  • Togei’s athleticism is elite in drills, but physical measurables (arm length, hand size) are below average.
  • Quote:
    • "He's always here working out, always, you know, one of our best guys in the weight room—it shows on the field. He's made a play today on the screen in the backfield... really great instincts inside and that's what's allowed him to shine." – DeMeco Ryans [08:08]

• Seth & Sean on Athletic ‘Spider Charts’

  • Fun discussion on Togei’s combine results vs. NFL standards.

  • Despite short arms and small hands, Togei excels thanks to explosion, quickness, and technique (“Aaron Donald” comp).

  • Broader conversation about scouting inefficiencies—the overlooked potential of players like J.J. Watt, Max Crosby, and Trey Hendrickson due to non-ideal measurables.

  • Quotes:

    • "He’s trying to play defensive tackle without any arms." – Host [09:28]
    • "Aaron Donald’s the ultimate example of a guy that is short and it didn’t matter because he made up for it in so many different ways." – Seth Payne [09:47]
    • "Every college coach in the nation looked at these guys and thought not sure he’s cut out to be a pass rusher in college... Looks more like a tight end to me. And they made it." – Seth Payne [10:55]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• DeMeco Ryans on Bullock:
  • "One of the best in the league at taking the football away." [02:43]
• On Defensive Backfield Versatility:
  • "You can do some funkier things... If there’s an errant pass at all, it turns from an incompletion into a potential interception." – Seth [03:40–03:46]
• On Hall’s Versatility:
  • "He gives you a lot more ability that look, he can be a replacement for like—not a direct replacement—but if Will Anderson goes down... you got Genevieve on Clowney and Logan Hall as your defensive end and you can roll with that." – Seth [05:58]
• Spider Chart/Fun Analogy:
  • "The ideal spider chart is where there’s color spreading everywhere. Like on Tommy, the left hand half, that’s all like drills are all amazing. The other half is like the invisible man..." – Hosts [10:02–10:14]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Kalen Bullock Scouting/Analysis (02:16 – 05:04)
• Logan Hall Scouting/Analysis (05:04 – 07:47)
• Tommy Togei Consistency & Spider Chart Discussion (07:47 – 11:38)
• Fun Recruiting Stories & Player Development (10:33 – 12:02)

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Summary Takeaway

This episode offers a coach’s-eye scouting report on emerging and key Texans defenders, emphasizing how roster continuity and new additions (like Reed Blankenship) will allow for more creative defensive schemes. Seth and Sean provide both technical and lighthearted insight into what makes players like Bullock, Hall, and Togei valuable—highlighting not just their physical tools but also the intangibles that drive on-field success. The conversation serves as an accessible yet expert overview for die-hard Texans fans and casual Houston sports listeners alike.

Transcript

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

I've been turned down interviews all week. Kodakopi reached out. Oprah, George Stephanopoulos. So I said no. I was booked on the Deitch podcast before the Taylor Swift phenomenon. I must live up to my responsibility.

[Commercial Narrator]

Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[Seth Payne]

420610 presents Pain and Pendergast.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

Pain and Pendergast. All right, Seth. So we just. In acknowledge me. Acknowledge. You know what? We should have acknowledged Seth. Byron. Can we give Seth Payne an acknowledge me real quick.

[Seth Payne]

Acknowledge.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

You were an 87 on Madden overall your last three years in the NFL. Yeah, like a fine wine year.

[Seth Payne]

You tell me. He's good.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

This is who you. Okay. How would you feel if you were the equivalent of Zach Allen of the Denver Broncos?

[Seth Payne]

You had to go the white guy, huh? Yeah.

[d'Amico Ryan]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

You're sandwiched in between Leonard Williams and Milton Williams.

[Seth Payne]

I was. Yeah. That's cool.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

One point behind Leonard William. He's really good.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, I know. It's always such a. It's always such a shock to people like you when you find out that I was.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

You accept praise like you're being handed a diagnosis.

[Seth Payne]

Well, you always act, like, incredibly surprised, like, hey, I'm excited for you. You were a good player. I don't like being singled out for stuff.

[Podcast Advertiser/Guest Speaker]

Okay.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, no, but yes, thank you. Yeah, I'll acknowledge that I was a good player.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

Okay, good, good. We've got. We've got 10 minutes left in the show. I shall now read all the 20, 26 defensive linemen that 6. Seth Payne was better than Grover Stewart, Kobe Turner.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

Byron Murphy, D.J. reader.

[d'Amico Ryan]

84.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

Duron Payne, your brother, he's 84 also. Yeah.

[d'Amico Ryan]

All right.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

I won't keep going. All right, so Demigo Ryan's met with the media over the weekend as he always does, and he. It was kind of cool. He gave like sort of some scouting thumbnails on some of the guys Kalen Bullock met with the media, too. This was d', Amico. Ryan. Caleb Bullock's one of the guys people are real excited about in year three. I know you've said this with Reed Blankenship back there now, maybe it unlocks a different level with Kalen Bullock. This was d' Amico on Kalen Bullock this weekend.

[d'Amico Ryan]

Kalen's done a really good job of just working on his communication skills. We all know Kalen's greatest assets is being able to take the football away. That's where he truly shines. One of the best in the league at taking the football away. I've seen him take a jump and it's tackling. Like every year the kid has gotten better and he's putting in the work to do that. So this year has just been the communication moving him around a little bit more. He's well, well versed in what we're doing defensively now, continuing to work with his disguises and, you know, showing one thing, giving them another. So the more he can really own that role, the better he'll be, the better our defense will be.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

Is he another one of these guys? Seth, that benefits from something you were talking about earlier in the show, which is this is a defense that's just going to have more wrinkles to it this year.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, yeah, 100%, for one. All these guys have been in the system now for a couple of years. At least a couple of years. We look Kamari Lasseter and Calum Bullock. But then you add Reed Blankenship to it, now that you've got five veteran players in the defensive backfield, you can do some funkier things. And for one, you know, Bullock, when he's in that deep center field, safety position, that's where he can really utilize his. His range and be kind of an eraser. And if there's, if there's an errant pass at all, it turns from an incompletion into a potential interception. But they also, because you have Reed Blankenship, it frees them up to maybe move Calum Bullock up near the line of scrimmage at times and have Reed Blankenship play deep and take advantage of Bullock's speed and versatility down there. Yeah, and there will be more wrinkles this year just because if you look at last year having a revolving door at safety next to Kalin, there's just only so much you can do in terms of disguising without screwing everything up, because it's, it's just more on the plate of a rookie or a guy that you just signed to, to try to disguise or to do anything funky. It's just there's going to be more mental errors when you can't trust everybody back there. So as long as everybody's healthy or, you know, like if Jalen Petrie got injured, for instance, hypothetically, they can, they can, you know, they can move Reed Blankenship around or some of those younger guys are now a year older, that it doesn't have to disrupt you as much. So, yeah, I think this year they'll be really freed up to, to take advantage of everything that Kalyn Bullock offers athletically.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

I think one of the more interesting guys on the defense that we haven't talked about a ton is Logan hall because of the versatility he brings to the defensive line. Who knows if the Clowney signing impacts how they envisioned using him eventually? Because I think there had been a notion that they were so thin at the backup defensive end that Logan hall could give you some snaps there. We'll see how that works out. But this is d', Ameco, and this is obviously before the Clowney signing, but this was d' Ameco on Logan Hall.

[d'Amico Ryan]

Well, Logan, he's done a good job with just, you know, working himself back, getting out of playing football. You know, he had surgery there in the offseason, so he's been, you know, doing a good job of working with our guys on the side and now getting integrated back to football. He just has to get used to the techniques and the things we're asking a D line to do. As we know, completely different scheme from what he's used to. So it'll take some time to him to get caught up what we're doing. So we'll see how he continues to grow with that. But he's, he's done a great job in his first four days.

[Seth Payne]

No. So Logan hall, you know, we've, we've talked a lot about how, okay, Logan hall in some ways can be the replacement for Deanico Autry, who's kind of a, like a. He's a. He's more of a combo defensive end slash defensive tackle. Played defensive end in a 3, 4. That's kind of like an interior defensive lineman. So. But I think more so than Danico Autry, they'd be more comfortable having him play defensive tackle in more situations. So it's going to be a game plan by game plan thing or based on injuries. He gives you a lot more ability that look, he can be a replacement for like, not a direct replacement, but If Will Anderson goes down or both of them went down. If Will Anderson and and Daniel Hunter both went down, you got Genevieve on Clowney and Logan hall as your defensive end and you can roll with that. You're not going to be as good obviously, but you can roll with that. But likewise if you have a bunch of injuries at defensive tackle. Logan hall can play a lot more defensive tackle in normal situations. Autry was kind of a guy that might play defensive tackle in passing situations or you know, in specific, you know other other With Squarespace you can do

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[Seth Payne]

How We Made youe Mother is the How I Met yout Mother rewatch podcast with me, Josh Radner and series co creator Craig Thomas. Follow How We Made youe Mother wherever you get your podcasts situations Logan hall is more of a genuinely versatile inside outside player.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

All right, last one here. The title of most consistent player last year. This shocked a lot of people when d' Amico said it a year ago said the most consistent Houston Texan is Tommy Togi. And this is before Togih had evolved into what he became this past season. Does he still hold the belt for most consistent Houston Texan?

[d'Amico Ryan]

Tommy is just always the most consistent guy. He's always here working out, always, you know, one of our best guys in the weight room and it shows on the field. When he steps on the field, there's no he doesn't surprise us. He's made a play today on the screen in the backfield. He's just smart, aware, not just running with his eyes closed, he's aware of what's going on. Really good feel, really great instincts inside and that's what's allowed him to shine, you know, as a player for us. And he's again gotten better each and every year and he's looking the best that I've seen him look here in training camp. So excited to see the type of season that he'll have.

[Seth Payne]

This is I'm going to show you something that I had actually I texted to you and Nick Casario after the last time we had Kasario on because he was talking about Togei being as explosive as he is and it's spider chart. If you ever go to mock draftable, it's a fun thing to do. They'll show how a player looks based on his combine stats. Like relative to other things. Togei, you might wonder, okay, how's the guy who's in the 92nd percentile of three cone drill? 77th percentile of 20 yard shuttle. He's in the 80th percentile. Vertical jump. Looks like a pretty explosive guy. Yeah, he only gets to. He's a mid round draft pick. Arm length, 9th percentile.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

No arms.

[Seth Payne]

Hand size, 2nd percentile.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

He's trying to play defensive tackle without any arms height and weight. Weight.

[Seth Payne]

He's at the top of the lower quartile.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

Right, right, right. Well, stand to reason that when you have no arms, your hand size would also be very small.

[Seth Payne]

He's a smaller. So he's not. And he's not quite as impressive as Aaron Donald was.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

Wild looking spider.

[Seth Payne]

He's like he doesn't have the length that guys feel comfortable with. But sometimes guys like that end up being really like Aaron Donald's the ultimate example of a guy that is short and it didn't matter because he made up for it in so many different ways.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

The ideal spider chart is where there's color spreading everywhere.

[Seth Payne]

J.J. watts. It's like all green. Like it's color. The whole circle is great.

[Commercial Narrator]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

Like on Tommy to like the left hand half. That's all like drills.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

Are all amazing. The other half is like the invisible man, but he doesn't exist.

[Seth Payne]

Oh, that was the fun thing too. I did this once. So you look at JJ's and it's almost all over. Oh my God. Other than his 40 because they're comparing him to edge rushers.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

Where does he. That's his 40 right there. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

So his 40 time but like 20 yard shuttle, bench press, arm length, handstand height, all that stuff.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

It's a much fuller web than togei.

[Seth Payne]

No, it's funny because if you take I found three guys who curiously were recruited as tight ends out of high school or were recruited only to mid major conferences. It was Max Crosby, J.J. watt.

[d'Amico Ryan]

Right.

[Seth Payne]

And what's the name from the Bengals to the, to the Ravens.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

Oh, Trey Hendrickson.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, Trey Hendrickson. Like huh.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

What are they all having?

[Seth Payne]

Every college coach in the nation looked at these guys and thought not sure he's cut out to be a pass rusher in college.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

Like three of the best.

[Seth Payne]

Looks more like a tight end to me. If they made it.

[d'Amico Ryan]

Idiots.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

Central Michigan was J.J. right?

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

Max Crosby, Eastern Michigan.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

And then I think Florida. One of the Florida's either international or Atlantic.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. Hendrickson, JJ started off as a tight end and I want to say one of those other two guys also started off as a tight end, defensive end at the very least. Didn't get any big time offers.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

Definitely passes the eye test.

[Seth Payne]

97th percentile. A three cone drill amongst NFL players. Looks like he's probably going to be a tight end in Central Michigan. Unbelievable.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

Oh my God. How unsophisticated. Holy smokes. All right, so.

[Seth Payne]

Well that's what they used to do with quarterbacks of the recruiting process too.

[d'Amico Ryan]

Indeed.

[Seth Payne]

That was where like high school quarterback. This fellow looks more like a wide receiver to me. To my eyes.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

Quack shift.

[Seth Payne]

I know. I've been watching football a long time and this fella here is no quarterback.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

Oh my God.

[Seth Payne]

He threw for 7,000 yards. Yeah. But looks more like a wide receiver to me.

[Host (possibly Richard Deitsch or co-host)]

Oh my God. All right, so a reminder, a couple of things. Couple, two, three things. John Harris, Mark Vandermeer who are about to get the hot tag from us. They're going to have Cal McNair and Hannah McNair on this Morning at 8:30, the fellows on in the Loop. We're going to have Kamari Lassiter off the field today as their player guest. And tomorrow at 7:15, Nick Casario joins Seth and myself here on Pain and Pendergast. So first day of Paz. If you're a fan coming out here, we look forward to seeing you out here. If you're a fan standing in line, God bless you out there. Antibodies to you, my friend, if you're drunk.

[Podcast Advertiser/Guest Speaker]

I'm Tobin Heath. And I'm Kristen Press. We're World cup champions, Olympians and the hosts of the recap show. Week and week out we sit down with sports legends, cultural icons and global change makers to talk everything from clutch games to causes that matter. This is about creating the future of women's sports. A future that's honest, inclusive and real. Join us for our reimagined journey. Follow and listen to the recap show wherever you get your podcasts.