ESPN had a bunch of layoffs yesterday

Summary

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Payne & Pendergast - ESPN Had a Bunch of Layoffs Yesterday

Date: July 22, 2026
Hosts: Sean Pendergast and Seth Payne
Episode Focus: ESPN’s latest round of high-profile layoffs and the ripple effects across sports media

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Sean and Seth dig into ESPN’s recent layoffs of major on-air talent, exploring what this means for the sports broadcasting landscape, individual media personalities, and the wider world of sports coverage. They interweave discussion about Houston sports culture, personal industry lessons, and entertaining anecdotes, all delivered with their signature humor and insight.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Risks and Realities of Tanking in Sports

[01:30 – 04:21]

• Listener Poll: Kelsey throws out a fan poll asking, “Would you suck for three years for another six years of greatness for the Astros?”
• Sean’s Take:
  • He notes most fans say yes in theory but “somewhere in the middle of those three years, you're going to lose faith.” Fan and ownership patience are major obstacles to tanking.
• Nostalgia and Selective Memory:
  • People “lie about how they were feeling in 2013, 2014… People were disengaged. People were just flat out disgusted.”
• Comparisons to Other Franchises:
  • Seth and Sean discuss how tanking often fails, using the Cleveland Browns as a cautionary tale. “The Browns are on their second round of tanking... and it didn't work out.”
• Changing League Strategies:
  • Tanking isn’t as effective now because more teams try it and it often leads “to a road to nowhere.” Nowadays, more teams opt for a “soft reset.”

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ESPN Layoffs and What’s Next for Major Talent

[04:21 – 12:31]

Notable Layoffs and Personal Impact

• Favorite Personalities:
  • Sean singles out Charles Davis as someone he enjoyed (“He really studied the opponents”), relieved to find Davis still on CBS.
  • Both discuss Carl Ravitch—“He’s been there 33 years… as tied to one sport as any ESPN personality. Baseball, obviously.” [05:01]
• Generational Impact:
  • They note: “For guys in our age bracket… Carl Ravitch [matters most]. Younger people might say Cam Newton or Ryan Clark.”
• Lighter Moments:
  • Kelsey teases, “Carl Ravitch. All time hairpiece, Team Mount Rushmore.” [05:37]
  • Sean is surprised: “Really? I had no idea he had a hairpiece.” [05:45]

On-Air Talent Adaptations and the Rise of Personal Platforms

• Platform Power:
  • They discuss how personalities like Cam Newton and Ryan Clark will pivot easily, already having strong online followings.
  • Kelsey shares Cam Newton’s perspective:
    • Quote [07:36]: “I want you to learn one rule about the times we live in right now. If you don't own your own platform, you're going to get overlooked, bypassed and be extinct. Like dinosaurs.” — Cam Newton
• Soft Landings for Some:
  • Sean reflects on how some would previously be bitter, realizing “it was more about the platform than it was about me.”
  • Now, many use ESPN as a launchpad: “You got to have your.. Make it on your own with your podcast simultaneously... it can be a good launching board to notoriety.” [09:50]
• ESPN’s Ongoing Value:
  • Seth notes the massive visibility ESPN still offers: “You go to an airport, you go to a doctor's office… there's a good chance ESPN is on. And all of a sudden, Pat McAfee... many more people are now thinking about Pat McAfee.” [11:19]

Mega-Contracts, Economics, and “The Apron” Analogy

• McAfee’s Big Deal:

  • Kelsey laughs about Pat McAfee’s rumored $60 million contract as ESPN simultaneously slashes $2M-salary talent:
    • “It's so funny... ESPN's acting like they're trying to get under the second apron so they can fit McAfee and Stephen A. Smith under salary.” [12:09]

• Value to the Company:

  • Sean offers a business lesson: “Never, ever, ever forget… are they making this company money?... you’re expendable… if advertisers are only here for you, you can't get fired. Otherwise… you’re not bringing money to the table.” [12:32]

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Life and Career Lessons from the Business of Sports Media

[13:00 – 16:18]

• Company Economics & Job Security:
  • Sean: “Just remember, you're in constant competition with your co-workers… Stab them in the back every chance you get.” [13:40]
  • Both clarify they’re joking and remind that likability matters: “You're less likely to get fired if people like you. Sometimes… it’s a tiebreaker.”
• The Notre Dame Test (Kelsey’s CEO Story):
  • Kelsey shares career advice: “If I'm interviewing somebody… I think to myself, if they were riding shotgun with me on a trip to Cleveland to see my mom, do I want to kick the bleep out of them by the time I get to Notre Dame? If yes, I do not hire that person.” [15:06]
  • Sean adapts it for Houston: “If I want to beat the crap out of this person by the time I get to the Golden Nugget in Lake Charles… I do not hire that person.” [15:44]
• Chemistry vs. Talent:
  • Sean’s hard-earned lesson: “I went into business with somebody… really talented, but he annoyed the hell out of me... Two days into the relationship, I was like, oh, I made a huge mistake.” [15:57]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On tanking and fan patience:

  “Somewhere in the middle of those three years, you're going to lose faith… In hindsight, it made perfect sense… That’s not how people felt. People were disengaged. People were just flat out disgusted.” — Sean, [02:11]

• On platform ownership:

  “If you don't own your own platform, you're going to get overlooked, bypassed and be extinct. Like dinosaurs.” — Cam Newton (read by Kelsey), [07:36]

• On ESPN’s leverage and employee value:

  “You’re expendable… If they have to say, wait, there's… 10 advertisers that really are only with us because of this guy. We can’t fire this guy.” — Sean, [13:00]

• On the Notre Dame Test for hiring:

  “If I’m interviewing somebody… do I want to kick the bleep out of them by the time I get to Notre Dame? If yes, I do not hire that person.” — Kelsey, [15:06]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:30 – 04:21: Obstacles of strategic tanking in sports
• 04:21 – 06:55: Reaction to ESPN layoffs; favorite personalities let go
• 07:03 – 07:46: Cam Newton’s philosophy on platform ownership
• 09:34 – 12:09: ESPN’s business model and mega-contracts; “second apron” salary analogy
• 13:00 – 15:24: Office job security, company economics, and likability
• 15:24 – 16:18: The Notre Dame Test and real-world lessons on working with people

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Tone and Delivery

• Conversational & Playful: Sean and Seth banter with easy camaraderie, peppering serious analysis with tongue-in-cheek advice and local flavor.
• Frank & Insightful: Opinions are given unfiltered, with plenty of inside-baseball context for sports and media fans.
• Locally Grounded: Houston references abound, connecting national stories back to city pride and culture.

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For Listeners: Why This Episode Matters

This episode gives the listener a blend of media industry reality check, behind-the-scenes broadcasting insights, and practical workplace wisdom. Whether you’re a diehard Houston sports fan or someone fascinated by the shifting media landscape, Sean and Seth’s mix of real talk and wit makes for an engaging, informative listen.

Transcript

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[Sean]

And West Point Lincoln of Sugar Land

[Kelsey]

Studios, here's Pain and Pendergast. John do a Pender poll. This is on the text page. Would you suck for three years for another six years of greatness for the Astros? A thousand times.

[Sean]

Everybody always says yes. I would totally take that. This is the problem. Somewhere in the middle of those three years, you're going to lose faith. This is why tanking. This is one of the biggest obstacles to tanking. And this is where I give Jim Crane a lot of credit. At some point, ownership loses faith. They get so many angry emails, people are calling them bums at the grocery store because, you know, the way billionaires shop at grocery stores.

[Kelsey]

That time I ran into Crane in the produce aisle.

[Sean]

I was talking to Crane. I was like, I cannot pick an avocado that isn't spoiled. By the time I get home, he gave me some tips. But the there's like people lose their nerve. And like Crane, to his credit, kept his nerve Through a really, really hard tank. I don't think you can really. Because it's one of these things where people love to say like, oh, no, because I would totally understand the strategy and everything. There are a lot of people who out there right now, because I see them who lie about how they were feeling in 2013, 2014. There was. Yeah. In hindsight.

[Seth]

Oh yeah.

[Sean]

It made perfect sense. Look, they're winning all these triple A championships. That's not how people felt. Like people were disengaged. People were just flat out disgusted. They weren't watching on television. Half the city couldn't watch. That was another thing that added to the misery of it. They didn't even have the TV channel. But that's the hard part. It's like, yeah, you say, hypothetically, sure, I'll suffer for three years. If you're gonna give me another six year window. That does. The vast majority of time, that's not what happens. So somewhere in the middle of those three years, you convince yourself that the process sucks. And everybody's a bum in that realistically that most times teams do it. Look at the Brown. The Browns are on their second round. So different sport. The Browns are on their second round of tanking. Yes, they, they tanked hardcore by football standards. And it didn't work out. Right now they're trading away Miles Garrett. They're tanking.

[Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Sean]

And like, do you think people in Cleveland are like, well, yeah, this is the process. This is the way. No, this is how you get a team.

[Seth]

They're not.

[Kelsey]

Yeah, they're, they're, they're not, they're not, they are not ready for another process.

[Sean]

And the other thing that kind of happened was that like, for multiple reasons, tanking didn't become as effective. Partly because just more teams caught on to it and started trying to do it them. So all of a sudden you're competing with other teams that are trying to suck too. And it's a, it's a road to nowhere. But I, There are, there's more. Often these days it's a, it's not, it's a soft reset. You know, you gotta, you gotta kind of. It's like, it's like just, you know, tightening up your own personal budget for a couple years because. But you know, there's a payoff at the end. I think that's, that's what most teams approach it like now, which, which firing

[Kelsey]

by ESPN yesterday because they let at least about a dozen or so front facing on air people.

[Sean]

Yeah, go.

[Kelsey]

Which one? Move the needle. The Most for you.

[Sean]

Okay. This one didn't move the needle in terms of it being a big name or anything, but I just really liked Charles Davis. I liked it when he did Texans games. I've just felt like he just. He really studied the opponents and knew a lot about it.

[Kelsey]

He's still going to be working for cbs.

[Sean]

Oh, that's right. Oh, so I don't have to worry about that.

[Kelsey]

No, no.

[Sean]

But I never watch ESPN anymore, so. Okay.

[Kelsey]

NFL Network.

[Sean]

I don't watch really much of that other than the clips I see. Okay, cool. As long as he's still doing color. That makes sense.

[Kelsey]

Yep.

[Sean]

I should have thought of that. I think the biggest needle mover. It's probably Carl Ravitch. Just because he's been there forever.

[Kelsey]

I think it depends on age. I think Carl Ravich, for guys in our age bracket, because he's been there 33 years, he's been as tied to one sport as any ESPN personality. Baseball, obviously. I'm guessing the younger people might say Cam Newton or Ryan Clark.

[Sean]

The only thing about Carl Ravitch is that I feel like he shoehorns the being better than everybody else scandal in sometimes into conversations about the shows when he doesn't need to.

[Kelsey]

Yeah, see, I don't want to say, well, good. I'm glad they fired him.

[Sean]

That's.

[Kelsey]

That's bad.

[Sean]

Bad for you.

[Kelsey]

I want to do that. I will say this about Carl Ravich. All time hairpiece, Team Mount Rushmore.

[Ad Voice]

That's a hairpiece.

[Kelsey]

Yes.

[Sean]

Really?

[Kelsey]

And has been since the early 90s.

[Sean]

He passes the test there. I had no idea he had a hairpiece.

[Kelsey]

Yeah. And has been since the early 90s.

[Sean]

Does he wear it in nature or just on television?

[Kelsey]

I think. Well, I've never seen him out in the wild before, so I. So I'm not sure. I would assume he's been wearing it for like over 30 years.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kelsey]

So that would feel to me. Which means he was a young man back then. That feels to me like someone who's wearing it everywhere he goes.

[Sean]

They do pretty much as much as people. You know, the toupees get a bad rap. I feel like it's all a matter of just how. It's kind of like with clothes. Yeah. If you wear crappy clothes. Clothes are dumb. No, there's a lot of guys that have toupees. Like. Well, Ted Danson.

[Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Sean]

You would never guess that he was a toupee guy growing up, right?

[Kelsey]

Nope, I would not have. I would not have the. So Ryan Clark and Cam Newton are the two. And Bart Scott got let go too. But I think the two former players that move the needle the most for people, Ryan Clark and Cam Newton. And I know I. Look, I know there's people that like both those guys. I know there's people out there that Ryan Clark particularly may not be their cup of tea. Cam Newton's just kind of entertaining to me. He's got a vibe to him. Yeah, I think he says some silly

[Sean]

things sometimes, but he also has like, he's a performer. He's so like there's times where even if you disagree with him, he's saying it, he's saying it in an entertaining way.

[Kelsey]

This is what's interesting nowadays and this is where I give both of these guys credit, the Kelsey's credit, other guys credit is that, yeah, I got fired from espn, okay? I got this other platform. I'm making plenty of money over here. I can focus more time on that, whatever it may be. Cam Newton said this yesterday. The video is too long for us to play it.

[Commercial Announcer]

But.

[Kelsey]

But I'm just going to read the money quote from this. He's talking about getting fired alongside Ryan Clark getting fired, saying that Cam Newton said he viewed his time at the network as an internship and holds no resentment towards the company. Quote. I want you to learn one rule about the times we live in right now. If you don't own your own platform, you're going to get overlooked, bypassed, and be extinct. Like dinosaurs.

[Sean]

Like dinosaurs.

[Kelsey]

Dinosaurs.

[Sean]

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[Sean]

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[Kelsey]

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[Kelsey]

So you got to have your own platform. According to Cam Newton, it is.

[Sean]

What a schmuck. He believes in dinosaurs.

[Kelsey]

It does give these guys a soft landing when you let go, you know, get let go by. By espn, right?

[Sean]

Yeah, no, that's. Well, it used to be. I used to really enjoy watching people who had these massive inflated egos who are at espn who got let go by espn and they had to realize all of a sudden, like, oh, oh, it was more about the platform than it was about me.

[Kelsey]

Yes.

[Sean]

Because they would be so bitter for so long.

[Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Sean]

And I do think that part of it has changed where people do understand and realize, okay, look, you got to have your. Make it on your own with your podcast simultaneously while you're at espn, and it can be a good launching board to notoriety.

[Kelsey]

I do. I do think. I think Cam is a little dismissive of the platform that ESPN gives you to cross promote all that other stuff.

[Sean]

Yeah, but he's already. He's different because he's already a superstar in his own right. And like. And he does. He's an entertainer personality. Like, he's got a panache to him. It's. It's more difficult for, like, Carl Ravitch isn't going to be able to go and all of a sudden have a podcast that's worth $100 million within a couple of years, most likely the way that Cam or somebody else like that, because he's already. He was. Cam Newton was a star before he went to espn, but he said he

[Kelsey]

regarded it like, already doing this before he went to ESPN streaming. Yeah, well.

[Sean]

And he said he looked at it like a good. Like an internship.

[Kelsey]

Right.

[Sean]

That espn. Which is true. You learn a lot of just the. The fundamentals of being on camera and acting in a certain role. And you get a lot of reps.

[Kelsey]

Yeah, yeah, you do get a lot of reps. And you're around a lot of people who've been in broadcasting. You can be a bit of a sponge.

[Sean]

That's what. And that's what McAfee when he joined up with ESPN, the way he was framing it, I could. I think it was very much almost like a, you know, we'll see how it goes. But, like, this isn't. This is going to be really good for visibility. He had said, hey, espn. Despite the changing landscape and everything, you go to an airport, you go to a doctor's office, you're sitting, getting your oil changed. There's a good chance ESPN is on.

[Kelsey]

That's.

[Sean]

And all of a sudden, Pat McAfee, who was already really successful with his YouTube and podcasts like that, many more people are now thinking about Pat McAfee. So even if it didn't work out, and that's why I think he's. He feels very. He doesn't. He's very brazen about calling people out at espn everything, because he just really. It's not that he doesn't care, but if he had to. If he had to cut ties with espn, he's just right back to doing what he was already doing.

[Kelsey]

Making crazy money.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kelsey]

Crazy Money MacVee. And he's about to make. That was the other funny thing to see, too, yesterday. Pat McAfee, if you believe the reports that are out there, is on the verge of signing a deal with ESPN that's worth upwards of $60 million.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kelsey]

So you've got that story out there, which kind of. Kind of got out there last week. So it's been sitting out there, and then all of a sudden this week, at the beginning of the week, there's this bloodletting of people. $2 million, guys being let go. It was so funny. I saw somebody tweet yesterday because Stephen A. Smith also makes, and he's very public about this, a ton of money. Stephen a. Makes like 20 million a year. McAfee's about to make 60 from ESPN. And somebody said ESPN's acting like they're trying to get under the second apron so they can fit McAfee and Stephen A. Smith under Sally.

[Sean]

Yeah, that does make sense.

[Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Well, it's like, it's a good lesson for any business. Like, anybody that's. Any young people are just starting your first real job. Just never, ever, ever forget that. The, like, the way your management is looking at you is, are they making this company money? Sometimes people lose sight of that. Like, we see that in our industry sometimes where there'll be guys that have, like, big egos or whatever, and they might be very, very talented, but they. They don't fundamentally understand that, dude, you're not making the company any money.

[Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Sean]

You're expendable. Like, when they go to fire you if what they. If they have to say, wait a second. Like, there's. There's 10 advertisers that really are only with us because of this guy. We can't fire this guy.

[Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Sean]

You know, where there's a lot of other guys who might be more talented or what have you, but, like, they just. They're not bringing money to the table.

[Kelsey]

At the very least, it's a huge risk to fire.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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It's a big risk.

[Sean]

You got to replace all that.

[Kelsey]

Yeah. Or hope that somebody picks up the slack.

[Sean]

No, it's the same way. I mean, it's like, it will. Like. Like in some companies, it's easy. Like, if you're in sales. All right. You can show exactly how much money I'm bringing to the table.

[Kelsey]

Right.

[Sean]

You know, if you're doing other jobs, it's not always quite so clear.

[Kelsey]

Yes. Yeah.

[Sean]

Just remember, you're in constant competition with your co workers.

[Kelsey]

Absolutely.

[Sean]

Stab them in the back every chance you get.

[Kelsey]

That's right.

[Sean]

That's what they like.

[Kelsey]

That's right.

[Sean]

You hear me, Byron? You're taking notes.

[Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Sean]

No, don't do that. That's. Yeah.

[Kelsey]

You know how many times Seth and I have stabbed each other in the back? At least 20 times a piece.

[Sean]

Okay. I was joking about the stabbing in the back. That's another. Another little life lesson is like. That's the other part is, like, people, they. You're less likely to get fired if people like you. There's times where people. I've been in these meetings where like, all right, you can have a conversation about a few people, like, this guy's just kind of a pain in the ass.

[Kelsey]

It's a tiebreaker.

[Sean]

Tiebreaker.

[Kelsey]

Yeah, it's. It's a tiebreaker.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kelsey]

The funniest. The funniest thing I was ever. Advice I was ever given. I'll make this quick. Is when I first got into management in my old job, when I was. I was promoted from, you know, being a sales guy to being area sales director. And I was on a con. I was having a conversation with the CEO of our company, who is a career sales guy. His name was Pat Martucci. And he's telling me, he's like, hiring is going to be. 80% of your job is going to be how well you hire and fire people. 80% of your success is going to be based on how well you do that. So his piece of advice was something. And when it came to hiring somebody this is sort of the tiebreaker thing we're talking about, about liking people. He said, I have this little thing called the Notre Dame test. You'll like this, Sean. And our company was in Chicago. He was from Cleveland. He goes, the Notre Dame test. He's like, how far into a trip from Chicago to Cleveland? Like, when I drive to go see my mom, it's what, about 90 minutes to Notre Dame? I said, it's about 90 minutes. He said, the Notre Dame test is this. If I'm interviewing somebody and I'm thinking of hiring them, but I'm not quite sure, I think to myself, if they were riding shotgun with me on a trip to Cleveland to see my mom, do I want to kick the bleep out of them by the time I get to Notre Dame?

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kelsey]

If the answer is yes, I do not hire that person.

[Sean]

It's a good. It's a good role to live. It's a good.

[Kelsey]

If you're hiring and firing, that's a good rule. What would that.

[Sean]

Always important to shower before you go to an interview?

[Kelsey]

Yes.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kelsey]

So the rule here, if I were to equate that to people hiring and firing in Houston, I'll call it the Golden Nugget rule. If I'm driving to New Orleans.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kelsey]

And I want to beat the crap out of this person, by the time I get to the Golden Nugget in Lake Charles, I might even call it the Beaumont rule.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kelsey]

Then I do not hire that I did.

[Sean]

You know what I should call the Beaumont. I wish I would have talked to you about 17 years ago.

[Kelsey]

Why?

[Sean]

Because I did. I went into business with somebody who, like, was really, really talented and good at what they did, but he annoyed the hell out of me. And I like. And I was kind of like. I was remembering, like, you know, my gut tells me no. But all the other boxes are checked. And it was two days into the relationship, I was like, oh, I made a huge mistake. I always had a funny mistake.

[Kelsey]

I always had a fun team. Yeah. I always had a fun team.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kelsey]

All right. Coming up next is Nick Casario and the Texans and Demico Ryan's. Are they the best in the NFL at this?

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