FULL SHOW - Thursday, July 9th

Summary

Payne & Pendergast – FULL SHOW SUMMARY – Thursday, July 9th, 2026

Hosts: Seth Payne (former NFL player), Sean Pendergast (out, subbed in by Luke Morrow)

Theme:
A packed, high-energy Houston sports talk show—combining passionate fan banter, sharp analysis, and blunt assessments—covering the Astros’ frustrating stretch, the Texans as a contender, Rockets discussion, and a blend of local and national sports stories. This episode leans heavily on listener engagement, Houston-centric humor, and unfiltered takes—even veering into offbeat banter—but remains laser-focused on the state of H-Town’s teams.

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Astros Meltdown & Trade Deadline Woes

[03:08]–[21:18]

Rotation in Ruins

• Astros lose to the Nationals 8–2; their starters (particularly Spencer Arrighetti) get shelled.
  • Arrogetti’s ERA is up to 8.74 over his last 7 starts—“a sharp regression to the mean.”
  • “Not a lot of guys you feel very good about in this rotation at this point.” – Sean [03:52]
  • Seth laments the “steady procession of guys coming back from the IL” making little difference.
• Current pitching strategy critiqued: Dana Brown’s band-aid approach of stacking innings-eaters, hoping for health, signing a “bunch of nondescript guys,” and praying for a Brent Strom-level turnaround that never arrives.
  • “What are you going to do to get yourself out of this mess?” – Seth [08:22]
• Despair about playoff viability
  • Sean: “Have we gotten to a point now where starting pitching has superseded…as the bigger concern than an outfielder?” [09:54]
  • “You could bring in hitters that do some good things, but they don’t do a damn thing about one of your starting pitchers imploding.” – Seth [11:47]
• Astros are winning series, but mainly against bottom-feeders.
  • “We’re almost at the All Star break. You can only point to three teams with a winning record that the Astros have actually taken a series from.” – Sean [13:04]
  • The Astros have the second-highest starter ERA in the majors.

Fan Frustration & Identity Crisis

• The hosts note: Astros feel like a “big-market team operating like the Rays”—spending is aggressive for Houston, but not enough to genuinely keep up with Dodgers/Yankees.
• “It’s a weird spot, where Jim Crane has spent into the competitive balance tax pretty regularly…but it’s still not enough.” – Seth [16:46]
• Desperate for the next Justin Verlander moment—but it’s not coming.
• Fans are defeated: “People are already saying, time for football, football, football… Someone said, ‘complete crap.'” [18:17]

Notable Quotes

• “These are the kinds of things you’d be doing in the middle of a tank or a reset…and that’s part of Dana Brown’s philosophy.” – Seth [14:51]
• “July is a really, really rough time to be languishing in Major League Baseball.” – Seth [18:59]
• “The Astros are not bad. They’re mediocre—which is the worst place to be.” – Seth [20:29]

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Texans Spotlight: Defense, Roster Rank, & O-Line Overhaul

[21:18]–[56:15]

Top Defensive Talent = Pressure to Win?

• ESPN’s Top 10 NFL Edge Rushers: Both Will Anderson Jr. (#3) and Danielle Hunter (#6) make the list.
  • Anderson is lauded as a “force multiplier.” [24:43]
  • “He’s definitively one of the best three pass rushers in the league, but it’s been cool to see Will take a step forward on technique.” – Seth
  • Hunter is called “one of the best power rushers of all time” (per an NFC executive), though Seth pushes back—“he’s a hybrid of everything.”
• Are the Texans under pressure, in a championship window, with all this young talent?
  • Discussion on how rare it is to build and sustain a young, stacked defense—noting contracts will come due and talent turnover is inevitable.
  • “It’s hard to have good defenses consistently…hard to keep the whole band together.” – Seth [30:09]
• “You can consistently expect good offense if you have a great QB. But on defense it’s trickier.” – Seth

O-Line Doubts, Rookie Center Watch

• Warren Sharp ranks Texans O-line 31st out of 32, only above Cleveland.
  • “I disagree with them being that low…But I refuse to get rankled. The Texans offense made this bed.” – Seth [48:23]
  • Luke: “I was surprised how reasonable fans were. For once, Texans fans aren’t in denial about it.”
  • “It’s a depressing thing to get in an argument about. No, no, listen—they are not the 31st offensive line. They are at least 27th!” – Seth [50:48]
• Focus on Keelan Rutledge as a rookie center: Ross Tucker calls him the “key” to the O-line.
  • “They must really, really believe in the young man. He’ll be tested early, physically and mentally.” – Ross Tucker [65:01]
  • “I feel like it’s the most under-talked part of this Texans team—the fact that you’re going to have a rookie learning a new position.” – Luke [68:32]
• ESPN Roster Talent Rankings: Texans come in 9th, with O-line flagged as “perhaps the NFL's shakiest starting five.”

Depth & Competition

• The new theme: The Texans at least have NFL-caliber depth and competition across the O-line for camp (not just penciling in unreliable guys like Kenyon Green).
• “There’s now actual competition—more than last year you signed a guy and he’s off the team a few weeks later.” – Seth [63:02]

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Hot Topics & Lively Sidebars

[56:15]–[74:05]

The “Everything Is Better Now” Rant

• Discussion on how today’s sports (and life in general) are unavoidably “the best ever” due to evolution, money, science, and exposure.
  • “Of course Ohtani is the best player ever—everything is better now!” – Sean [85:05]
  • “Enjoy dying because you scratched your leg on a nail at the age of 17.” – Seth on nostalgia for the past [87:13]
• Debates about dominance margin (e.g., Babe Ruth’s absurd peer gap) vs. pure skill.
• Notes on challenges for MLB stars gaining more attention due to language barriers/changing culture.

Rapid Hits:

• Justin Verlander announces his retirement; debate about which cap he enters the Hall wearing—Tigers or Astros. [35:26]
• Mark Cuban sues new Mavs ownership over handshake deal; banter on handshake deals for billion-dollar entities. [38:53]
• Depend diapers endorsement banter (Coach Prime), astronauts in diapers, and other offbeat asides—pure H-Town morning radio flavor.

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Astros Deadline: Should They Buy Or Sell?

[98:42]–[116:21], [178:01]–[189:02]

Is It Worth it?

• Back-and-forth about whether the Astros should be trade deadline buyers given roster holes and AL mediocrity:
  • “For me right now…the mediocrity of the AL is an opportunity. I have more appetite to be a buyer than I thought I would.” – Seth [181:06]
  • “The fan in me wants to win, but I don’t trust Dana to do it. Maybe just ride this thing out.” – Text [185:23]
  • “Fool’s gold is too generous. They are not bad, just mid. The worst place to be.” – Seth

Pitching Is the Only Real Need

• “If you’re going to be aggressive at the deadline, the biggest issue…is starting pitching.” – Seth [106:16]
• Sean: “They’ve got all these names, but how many do you actually trust in October? One—Hunter Brown.”
• “Replacing Bryce Matthews with a left-handed bat won’t do as much as adding a starter.” – Seth

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Texans Breakout Candidate Debate

[121:31]–[127:11]

• ESPN’s pick: Kalen Bullock, but Seth argues he’s already broken out; looks instead to WR Jaden Higgins or slot WR Jalen Noel.
• “There’s a huge house of cards—if we just get O-line, tight ends, healthy RBs, healthy WRs, then C.J. will be fine.” – Seth

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Miscellaneous Cross-Sport Stories:

[144:19]–[159:50]

WNBA Caitlin Clark = Water Cooler Blowup

• WNBA players rank Caitlin Clark 11th among guards for All-Star, despite fans/media voting her first/second.
  • “You need to go to a therapist and figure out what childhood issues you have.” – Candace Parker [146:23]
  • “It’s so clearly emotionally fueled…It's so weird.” – Seth
• Discussion: Is the U.S. Men's National Team or the WNBA more “catty”? Followed by Pulisic drama (Donovan vs. Pulisic).

NFL: Best 25 under 25

• Will Anderson Jr. ranked 6th, Stingley Jr. 16th—Seth feels Stingley’s too low.
• “If you’re young and fast-rising, you get the bump—doing it at a Pro Bowl level longer is almost a penalty.” – Seth

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The Seth Payne Index: Local Pain Rankings

[131:01]–[141:42]

• Astros not adding pitching = 7/10 on pain scale (“earn the right to hurt me”).
• Imai (struggling Astros SP) opts out = ranges from -3 (now) to 9/10 (if he suddenly gets good).
• If the Texans’ run game is solid but offense still struggles, it's “a 10”—all excuses gone for C.J. Stroud.
• If Fred Van Vleet isn’t ready for the Rockets' opener, also a 10 (“They’d be trusting that everything gets fixed by running it back—bad idea.”)
• Hilarious: “You bring home a one-night stand and she’s wearing Depends—pain index depends on looks: 5 if she’s a 10, 10 if she’s a 1.”

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Holy BLEEP Sports Moments (w/ In The Loop)

[191:48]–[201:20]

• Inspired by Zinedine Zidane’s World Cup headbutt anniversary, the guys share their “jaw-drop” sports moments:
  • Orlando Brown flag incident (Seth on the field—“He was Zeus, and he was nasty.”)
  • UConn comeback vs. Duke (Luke)
  • Beef Stew (Isaiah Stewart) chasing LeBron after being elbowed
  • Malice at the Palace as everyone’s go-to “holy bleep” memory

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Key Takeaways

• Astros:
  • The rotation is crumbling and local confidence in Dana Brown’s ability to fix it is at an all-time low. Even diehards question the wisdom of buying, but recognize the AL is so weak, anything is possible if you just get in.
  • “Trust” is gone from the pitcher-factory days; Lambert is the sole development success among a slew of failed bargain pickups.
• Texans:
  • The defense is elite on paper (per ESPN/top 10 rankings), with Will Anderson Jr. and Danielle Hunter deserving national recognition…and with them, playoff—or even Super Bowl—expectations are real.
  • Yet, the offensive line is still a huge question mark, especially given the rookie center experiment.
• Houston Fan Psyche:
  • Heavy sense of “stuck in mediocrity” pervades both baseball and football conversations, with banter providing catharsis.
• Show Tone:
  • Playful, self-aware, unfiltered, with top-tier local insight and fan relatability; sports-centric but never dry, frequently dropping in deadpan and off-beat anecdotes.

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Memorable Quotes

• “The Astros are not bad. They’re mediocre—which is the worst place to be.” – Seth
• “If you have two top 10 pass rushers, you have to win now. That window’s only open so long.” – Sean/Seth
• “If this team gets a solid run game but the offense is still stagnant, that’s a 10 on the pain scale—no more excuses.” – Seth

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Most Important Timestamps

• 03:08–21:18: Astros rotation/deadline panic
• 21:18–56:15: Texans as an NFL contender; O-line/Rutledge as rookie center
• 98:42–116:21; 178:01–189:02: Astros’ buy/sell conundrum and fan debate
• 131:01–141:42: The Seth Payne Index—painful hypotheticals
• 144:19–159:50: Caitlin Clark/WNBA, USMNT drama
• 191:48–201:20: Holy BLEEP sports moments, closing roundtable

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Bottom Line:
The Astros are hanging by a thread and the city’s mood matches; the Texans have a national spotlight and rare pressure; all while Houston fans ride the emotional rollercoaster—mid-July, with football season close, but not quite close enough.

Transcript

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Luke Morrow]

Milo's Money Days are here and we're

[Seth Payne]

making it rain for rewards members for

[Luke Morrow]

the first time ever, when you make a purchase of $200 or more through July 12, you'll get up to $30 back in extra Milo's Money. Not a member yet? Join for free today because members get more at Lowe's.

[Seth Payne]

My Lowe's Money award varies based on status.

[Luke Morrow]

Members in gold get 30, silver get 20 and bronze get 10.

[Seth Payne]

Milo's money valid for 30 days restrictions

[Luke Morrow]

and more terms@lowe's.com Milo's Moneydays thanks for

[Sean Pendergast]

joining our first ever support group for puppies. By show of pause, who's eaten a computer cable called a dongle?

[Seth Payne]

Oh, I ate a dongle before we had lemonade. Pet insurance so to avoid a vet bill, they waited for me to poop the dongle. You pooped a dongle? I pooped a dongle. You pooped a dongle. I pooped a dongle. I pooped a USB stick.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, but he pooped a dongle. He pooped a dongle with lemonade. Pet Insurance save up to 90% at the vet so you never have to find out if your pup can poop a dongle. Get a'@lemonade.com Pellet Sports Radio 610 presents

[Seth Payne]

Seth Payne and Sean Pendergast. We coming to eighth time.

[Ben]

Let's get the work in, man. Let's go.

[Seth Payne]

Great day. Great day. Oh, give me some juice, baby. Oh yeah, let's do it.

[Sean Pendergast]

Happy Thursday. Appreciate you starting the Morning with us, Payne and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow, in for Sean alongside Seth Payne. Ben, Gary on the steel wheels. As always, you can always join the conversation in the YouTube and Twitch chats on the text line.

[Seth Payne]

What's that about steel wheels?

[Sean Pendergast]

Ben's running things on the steel wheels.

[Seth Payne]

Oh, the steel wheel. I've never heard that before. Okay. No, yeah, I like that.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, it's the phrase, you know, everyone always says ones and twos.

[Seth Payne]

Steel wheels. Or the 808 or the. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ben's rolling on 20s. He's doing everything.

[Sean Pendergast]

That's right. He's.

[Ben]

He's.

[Sean Pendergast]

He's got the wheels of steel back there and keeping us on the track here, making sure everything goes smoothly. Everyone says ones and twos, you know, so and so on the ones and twos, but for the purpose of sports radio, not so much. I think that's more of a music thing.

[Ben]

Right.

[Sean Pendergast]

And then. And it's also kind of over. Everybody uses ones and twos. So I go, steel wheels.

[Commercial Announcer]

That's a.

[Seth Payne]

Like the Astros pitching with their ones and twos. Who's their best pitcher? Second best pitcher, fifth best pitcher? At any given time, they're going one or two innings, maybe. Hey, if you could get to five innings. If any of these guys facing the Nationals could get through five innings, it would have been a damn miracle. But we sit here in the wasted, the wasteland of national series, where your three pitchers, just 1, 2, 3, were absolutely abysmal and a disaster, and we're now we're just wondering what the hell the Astros are going to do about it.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, it's. Who do you feel good about at this point? Right. I mean, so the Astros lose yesterday 8 to 2. Spencer Arrogetti got knocked around. He now has an ERA of 8.74, so nearly nine in his last seven starts. For Arrogetti, after he started so great, this is a sharp regression to the mean. So we've been talking last couple of days about, like, Burrows, and we never really pondered Eric Eddie, but he continues to scuffle. I don't feel so great about him anymore. There's not a lot of guys you feel very good about in this rotation at this point as we head towards the All Star break as the Astros

[Seth Payne]

end up losing that series, Araghetti, I mean, we talked about Eric Eddie just because this is what he does. He goes through these streaks of good and bad and like he's. It looked like he might have been lifting himself out of a bad streak, but Then he was right back in it last night. And I keep reminding myself that the Nationals are. They've scored the most runs in Major League Baseball, or at least top two at any given time. And it's potent. But you'd like to think, okay, if this is a team, that you're going to make aggressive moves at the deadline, that it's worth it and that you can actually. You can slug it out with teams like the Nationals who aren't even a good baseball team. They're just. They've got a really good offense and they've got paltry pitching. And it, like right now, it just does. It does. After that series is not a team that feels like, oh, yeah, just with a couple little tweaks. Here we go. We're off to the races. And we're stuck in a position yet again where, just like last year when Dana Brown was saying that these guys coming off the il, that's. That's kind of where we're hoping to get a boost in the pitching. And I like. It's been a steady procession of guys coming back from the IL this year. And so far, as we wait and see Hunter Brown get back into form, the trips back from the IL haven't done a damn thing for the starting pitching.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, Javier pitched last night, just an inning at the end of the game. He looked okay. He's looked okay in his two appearance. Not great.

[Seth Payne]

Might get a start on Sunday.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, that's the weird thing. Dana Brown is playing it very close to the vest. He said Javier might be an option. I think he said Blanco. What was the phrase he used? Something like, has an outside shot of being the starter on Sunday. Something along those lines. They haven't mentioned Lance McCullers name publicly that I've heard. They talked about Wisneski. Yeah. And that Triple A pitching prospect. I'm drawing a blank on his name at the moment, but he was just the pitcher of the month last month at aaa. They're talking about him potentially as an option, as a spot start for Sunday, so we'll see who actually gets that start. But all those names you mentioned, the guys already in the rotation, like, how many do you trust? We obviously don't trust Burrows. That's why he's in Triple A. I don't think we trust IME a whole lot at this point. I don't know if we can trust Eric, Eddie, and then because of those injuries, like, how much faith or trust can we really put in Javier and Blanco and McCullers and Wisneski yeah, you know, and Lambert's another guy pitching really well, but then it's like, yeah, but you're kind of waiting for that other shoe to drop because he. He just hasn't done this over the course of an entire season. Hunter Brown's the only one, but even he hasn't been great since coming back from the. From the injury. I don't know who or how many you can trust right now in the starting rotation.

[Seth Payne]

The. At the very least, there's no way. I just. I have a really hard time envisioning right now feeling good about Imai at any point during this season. And even if he gets better, the thing that's bothering me the most about him, honestly, is that, like, Burroughs. Burroughs or Araghetti or anybody else will sit out there and they'll just take their medicine. I the that. All right, you're having a rough day. But, you know, we just flat out. We can't. We can't afford to just be burning up our relievers every single night, and they sit out there and they take their medicine. Imai I like in the times that he's been pulled after one or two or three innings. It's not like he's racked up a pitch count up into the high 80s or anything. He's been pulled with 37 pitches. He's been pulled with 30 in the 30s a couple of times, in the 50s once. That's where I'd start to get to a point. I was trying to evaluate myself in these situations. If I were an Astros player, where you're trying to always be a good dude and not criticize your teammates and everything, I would say I would be internally grumbling right now when. When Imai goes out there and it's not going well for him and he gets yanked. And meanwhile, maybe I'm a guy that's been left out there to die just to try to preserve the bullpen, no matter how bad my performance is and everything. Like, there's a. There's almost. There's just. There's the performance side of things, but then there's also the all right, man, you made this mess. You got to deal with this. Instead of treating them like, yeah, like all these additions that Dana Brown made in the off season where he just threw numbers at it. Let's bring in all these starting pitchers, and Lambert's the only one that's really worked out that. That there's like, at some point, what are you going to do to get yourself out of this mess? Like, Dana Brown's Dana Brown's fix for this pitching problem has really just been hoping for guys to get healthy or just signing and trading for a bunch of nondescript guys in the off season. And then you spend the first half of the season realizing, oh, okay, well, Lambert's the only one we can really depend on. So sorry about that. Hey, we saved a lot of money on five guys who aren't doing a damn thing for you, but we saved a lot of money on them. So. So in the sum total, could you maybe have spent that money on a starting pitcher or something like a bona fide starting pitcher of those five guys? It seems. Seems like the math is relatively simple.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, yeah, that's true. It's like quantity and quality. You know, they brought in those six arms. They have a combined ERA of nearly six this year. Three guys are already out of the big leagues and it's like, well, you brought in six different guys. You tried it with six RA pitchers and Lambert is the. Actually I don't think he's technically included in that six pitcher list.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, you're right.

[Sean Pendergast]

He was signed to a minor league contract. So it's. You're like, well hopefully one or two of these six hit or you could have just, you know, devoted your resources to one more secure option and, and felt a little better about the rotation. Kind of like Sonny Gray. They were in on Sonny Gray reportedly got beat out by the Red Sox and now Gray is the second best ERA in the al. It's like, man, it'd be nice if we had that guy in the rotation here. But to your point, the an article came out yesterday that Dana Brown said the Astros main need is still a left handed hitting outfielder. There's plenty of holes in the lineup too, especially in that outfield. We know statistically it might be the worst in baseball, but have we gotten to a point now where starting pitching has superseded or has become the bigger concern for this team than an outfielder?

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, I feel like the, the hitting is a one in nine proposition on any given night and the one guy can help you and boost the lineup in other ways, etc, etc. But just with this starting rotation the way it is right now, I just, I don't see how you make it through a seven game series. I think if you're gonna get implosions from it, you're gonna have at least two implosions on any given night or in any given series. If I take a seven game series and try to figure out whether I can trust Imai or I don't know If Burroughs came back up or if Javier's in there as the starter, do I trust that two of those guys are not going to have an implosion in a seven game series? And it's really hard to envision that. So. And we, and look, we've seen the games the Astros have lost despite scoring double digit wins. When one of your starting pitchers is having an implosion. Yeah, starting pitcher for me right now feels like the, the biggest deal in terms of just like there's that you could bring in, you could bring in hitters that could do some good things for you, but they don't do a damn thing about one of your starting pitchers imploding unless you can. Who are they going to bring in that you can count on, you know, scoring five runs on a night when your starting pitcher gives up seven or eight?

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, right. I mean, you have your down already playing at an incredible MVP pace and that's not enough. They scored 11 runs the other night and still couldn't win. So yeah, you know, it's still a case of pitching still wins World Series. If you look at recent World Series champions, their eras are all towards, you know, like the top 10 in the league. You still got to be able to pitch well. And right now the Astros just still haven't been able to pitch good enough.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, just from Kawahara in The Chronicle Since May 21, the record is 26 and 18. The starting rotations era in that time is 5.60. Like it's. They've been winning these games, but it's just that it's not so sustainable. It's not sustainable versus good teams. And great. You've been doing a good job of winning series and that's cool. A lot of them are against either mediocre or bad teams because you do play in the AL after all. But lo and behold, you go to your old, old nemesis over in the National League and it's. It's just a completely different story.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, that's true. Right. They played a decent team in the NL here this series and dropped two out of three in the starting pitching. Obviously couldn't hang. The Astro starters still have the second highest ERA in the majors. It's hard to win like that. We gave the example the other day of the 2006 Cardinals through the only team though that was able to, in their case, go all the way and win a World Series with a lousy pitching staff. You still need to be able to pitch to win and they just haven't done that consistently enough. Now, to your point, it's a good thing they're in the AL and they've still been able to win series against these lousy teams. Part of the reason why the Astros have the fourth worst run differential still in the AL and yet are two games out of first place because that division and the AL are so bad. But this. Look, the Rays series was big this past weekend, no doubt. But then this was another opportunity to continue that momentum. You're on the road against a decent Nationals team, you lose the series. And I was thinking about this, and I looked it up yesterday, but you know, they've only had winning series against winning teams three times. The Guardians, who are one game over.500, the Cubs, who are having a good year. But remember when the Astros played the Cubs, they were in that middle of like a 10 game losing streak. And then this past weekend against the Rays, which really was a good series. If I'm nitpicking, you could point out the comeback on Saturday, that that was the difference in the series victory. But my point being in all this, we're, we're on July 9th, we're almost at the All Star break. You can only point to three teams with a winning record that the Astros have actually taken a series from. So while we talk about all these series wins, and that's great, you know, it's been mostly against the Royals and the Tigers and the Twins and these teams that are just lousy. And when you play a Nationals team, pitching staff gets exposed.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. And I think part of it, too, man, there's like last night, Bryce Matthews, you know, misses out on a fly ball and deep center field. And the, there's a part of it with this team where it just feels like they're stuck. They're stuck in this, they're stuck in this gray area of, you know, all right, you're going to play your young guys, you're going to play your guys with upside. That's great. That's cool. You're hoping that Bryce Matthews is starting to turn the corner as a hitter, but it just feels like you're, it feels like you're doing the kinds of things that you'd be doing in the middle of a tank or a reset and getting your. And that's part of Dana Brown's whole philosophy anyway, is he gets young guys out there as soon as possible and lets them learn on the fly. I'd like that's a great, like, Tampa, Tampa Bay Rays philosophy or something in the way that they typically, not this year, but the way that they've operated in a lot of ways. But this is the Houston freaking Astros, man. It's not supposed to be like this. Like you're so like, this is, this is not a, this is not a. Hey, let's just, let's just roll things out there and see how they do and eventually it'll all work out. And then especially when you're having conversations about whether to be active at the trade deadline or not.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, that's been one of my biggest complaints in the last year or two that, that they should be a big market team or operating like such like a top five team in the league. And yet they're trying in recent years, the payroll has gone down three straight years. Are trying to be more like the Rays or the brewers or even the Guardians. And the brewers and the Guardians and the Rays, they all find ways to win while spending less. But the Astros at times have really made it harder on themselves here in recent years by trying to spend less. When, look, it's not my money. It's easy for me to say, but I don't think that should be the case. It's the, the third largest city now in the country. It's a big market. You've had success the past decade. I put you in the same category as the Cubs and the Mets and the Yankees and the Red Sox and all those teams and those teams spend. They're not in the bottom of the league.

[Seth Payne]

Well, that's where the Astros are kind of stuck in a weird spot though too, where Jim Crane has spent into the competitive balance tax pretty, like, pretty regularly.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

It's just that also they're not, they're. They're a large city, but not one of the biggest markets. And they're right there, right, right, right between the top tier markets and the mid tier ones and they spend like aggressively for their weight class. But it's still not enough to just ever, you know, like, you just don't have the revenue to keep up with the Dodgers and teams like that, you know, the Dodgers, the Dodgers, their, their revenue is. It's something absurd. It's like 50% higher than the, than the next highest team or other than like out outside of. It's ridiculous. So I don't, I'm always torn on that. I just, I do feel like sometimes they get stuck in the world of half measures and instead of just going full bore into, full bore into it, they're just always looking for the bargain or the semi aggressive signing or, or whatever it might be. And it's just it's been an, it's been an uncomfor gray area for a few years now. And we say this is Justin Verlander announces his retirement. The the original pivotal big move there was actually a pretty financially easy move for them to make or it was an easy trade for them to make back in the day. But that was like, that was the, that was the first really, really bold move that just pivoted everything for the Astros as the golden era began.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, is there a Justin Verlander out there to be had this year for the Astros? Because boy, could they use somebody like that. Not, not Justin Verlander in 2026, but that type of move when it happened nearly a decade ago. Feedback. You can always text the show 713-572-4610 and right now, Astro fans, Seth, they're having a hard time. People are already saying time for football, football, football, football was another message that came in. Someone said complete crap. Really. Somebody said I have to compete or I have to watch a mid team in a bad division with no chance. It's meaningless. So a lot of negativity amongst the Astro fans suddenly this morning, it's a rough time.

[Seth Payne]

July is a really, really rough time to be languishing in Major League Baseball. The kids are home, they're annoying you all day long. There's just you, it's hot, you don't want to go outside. There's everything. There's nothing else going on in the major sports world other than this. And at least in the last couple years, the Astros have done us the honor of making a push this time of year and get you feeling good about things. And it's they. But again, that's where it goes. It gets so frustrating and annoying that they have been making a push in terms of wins and losses, but they've just got these incredibly huge chasms in your starting pitching rotation that make it really impossible to look at this as anything that's going to be suspended, sustainable through tough parts of the schedule or certainly in a playoff series.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, yeah, it is. It's some of it's kind of the fool's gold of like sure, you can make the playoffs, but this does still does not seem like a team that can truly compete. By the way, thank you to the texter that that reminded me. It's Ethan Peko is that minor leaguer I referenced earlier. He was the pitcher of the month for June, but his ERA is still like 4.78 in AAA. But he's somebody that I know Astro fans are trying to get excited about of like, man, our starting pitching is not very good. Maybe this kid can come up and really develop into something.

[Seth Payne]

We'll see.

[Sean Pendergast]

And lastly, on the text line, someone said the Astros are a bad team. They're a turd. You keep turning this turd over in your hands looking for something. Stop looking.

[Seth Payne]

So that's, that's the problem, though. They're not bad. They're mediocre.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

Which is the worst place to be. It's just the absolute worst place to be when. And you just keep trying to swap out for a Sanchez for a Lo Profito or let's say, hey, let's see. Let's see which one of these nondescript pitchers can come in here and take advantage of the Astros car wash. Remember, remember how they always just take all these guys like Charlie Morton and turn them into the best version of themselves? Those days are gone. Like, that is like the withering dying breaths of Brent Strom as an Astros. Like they've all evaporated out of the building. There's none of the, there's none of the, there's none of the Brent Strom magic left in there anymore. Whatever residue they were smoking off of his old, his old seat in the clubhouse, it's been spent.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah. Ah, the good old days. Hey, let us know on the text line, what is what has become the biggest Astros need now? Who do you actually Trust in this rotation? 713-572-4610. Baseball Talk on Sports Radio 610 is presented by Xfinity. Score the most reliable Wi Fi one price, five years guaranteed. Xfinity. Imagine that coming up. We referenced this yesterday, but we really didn't dive into it. ESPN's been doing this top 10 ranking each day, and they did put out Yesterday the top 10 edge rushers, which bodes well for the Texans, but also begs the question of how much pressure is on this Texans team here and now. We'll talk about that next. Payne and Pendergast. ESPN ranked the top 10 edge rushers in the NFL according to executives, coaches and scouts, and no surprise, the Texans got plenty of love. We'll get to that here on Pain and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow in for Sean alongside Seth Payne. And you, of course, can always join the conversation. 713-572-4610. On the text line or in the YouTube and Twitch chats as well. We referenced this yesterday. You know, ESPN's doing these top 10 lists each day, and we mentioned this in passing, but we really didn't have enough time at the time to get into it. Yesterday's list for the top 10 for ESPN was edge rushers and they poll executives, coaches and scouts. No surprise we got two Texans on there. I think everyone was expecting that. You're just kind of waiting to see the spots. Will Anderson Jr. Ranked number three on the list, which is better than last year's ranking where he was eighth and Daniel Hunter sixth on the list, which is also an improvement from last year when he was ninth a year ago.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, and I think the Micah Parsons who was second, Miles Garrett was number one overall. That, that makes sense. And I think that, you know, it's funny, you and I both went over Michael Parsons stats afterwards because it felt like he missed more of the season than he actually did. He only missed three and a half games or whenever he got injured. But it just felt because it was such a pivotal and crucial point for the packers, it felt like it was longer than it actually was when you're really paying attention down in the stretch of the season. But I think the one quote where I think Will is still ascending to. But the one quote where they describe Myles Garrett as and Micah Parsons, this Anonymous, this is an NFL coordinator said, these are two guys that never really get blocked in the NFL and it's those two guys, Miles and Micah. You can, you do what you can with movements and quick game and it's not enough. And this is the part where Will, Will is very, very close to being that guy, but he's also a guy that's still adding some polish to his, his whole pass rush game. And, and it's, it's a process. You know, Myles Garrett and Micah Parsons are better players now than they were in their first couple years because there's just, there's just so much technique and anticipation and everything that goes into being one of these elite guys. And Will is like, he's definitively one of the best three pass rushers in the league. But I think that it's, it's been really cool to see Will take a step forward on the technique side of things and on the polished side of things. Just kind of on the art of being a pass rusher every single year. And you don't, you don't have any fear that he's not going to keep working at it.

[Sean Pendergast]

1. Even though he finished third on the list, one NFC scout said, I still feel like he's underrated. True three down force multiplier who demands attention and has the rare ability to elevate the Play of teammates. Do you see a path for Will Anderson Jr. To get so. So, like, do you think he's on that trajectory? Trajectory where next year, two years from now, maybe a few years from now. He's in that Miles Garrett category currently. Like, he's at the level of a current Miles Garrett. I don't.

[Seth Payne]

It's those guys. Both Micah Parsons and Miles Garrett are kind of unicorns in just how physically gifted they are. Myles Garrett, it's like the combination of size, strength, and speed. Myles Garrett, it's more about just how slippery, ridiculously fast he is. I think the thing with Will is that I don't think Will doesn't get as many style points as Myles Garrett does right now. But what people are grudgingly accepting, including one of these scouts in here that said that basically said that I was. He's better than I expected, to be honest. That's what he said. Will had a reputation, or at least the way a lot of evaluators were looking at him coming out of college was. Well, he's got a really big motor and he runs around and he makes a lot of plays, but that doesn't always translate into being a really skilled pass rusher. And now I think what people are seeing is that, okay, he's still that guy that just plays with his hair on fire all the time, but he has refined his technique and his polish a lot. And that. That's where you kind of gain an appreciation for that as you watch a guy over time and see the impact plays that he's making, even if he's not getting the style points that a Micah Parsons would. And I think the consistency is just. It's not as blingy, but it matters a lot. And I think that's probably, like, that's where I don't want to say that those other two guys are going to age out of it. I think that I just. I don't know what you do to. I don't know what you do to counter just the freakiness of Miles Garrett, where with Micah Parsons, I could see people starting to say, all right, look, Will Anderson is just doing it consistently down in and down out. And like, he's a force in the run game. We never have to worry, like, as much as whatever people think about or wonder about with Micah Parsons in terms of his presence in the locker room, Will Anderson is the exact opposite of all of that. And it'll. It'll just be a steady build.

[Sean Pendergast]

Danielle Hunter, six on this list. Look, as I just said, they. They said Will Anderson Jr. Still underrated. I think Daniel Hunter is incredibly underrated. I've mentioned it before. I grew up a Vikings fan, so I watched Daniel in Minnesota. I've now watched him here in Houston. I've, I've really, I've watched every game of his entire career at this point and, and last four years he is second overall in sacks in the NFL. But when you, when, when people especially like national pundits or just average NFL fans talk about best pass rushers in the league, I don't think most people are thinking of or bringing up Daniel Hunter. But one NFC executive in this article for ESPN did call him one of the best power rushers of all time. Not even the league currently, but all time one of the best power rushers. Daniel Hunter is just one of those guys that I think often gets overlooked. But boy, are you happy to have him here in Houston.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. Yeah. And it's kind of weir going back to when before the Texans even signed Daniel Hunter, remember, J.J. watt had posted something on X about just how criminally underrated he is and that it's maybe just partly because I think, I think if I remember correctly, the way JJ framed it was as he's getting into media and realizing how much it matters, like which team you're on. And there's some teams that get attention, there's some teams that don't. Minnesota is kind of just looked off as like the forgotten team up in the, in the far north. That between Daniel Hunter's personality and the team he played for, even when the Vikings were good, he just wasn't going to get the kind of attention that some of the other guys are going to get. I don't. Yeah, it's funny, I wouldn't classify him as a power rusher necessarily. I wonder if that guy's almost fooled by his physique more so than anything else. Like Jared Verse is a power rusher. Daniel is. Daniil is a hybrid of everything and can just crush you with finesse, but can get you with power too. Like power. Power rusher is almost a little bit of an insult there. It compared to what Daniel Hunter actually does as a pass rusher.

[Sean Pendergast]

I heard, I think it was Ron yesterday kind of bring up something along these lines and I think it's a, it's a good question or fair point because like, look, when we look at these lists, The Texans have two of the top 12 cornerbacks according to this poll on ESPN. Only the Texas and the Eagles can say that. The Texans also have two of the top 10 defensive ends. In fact, two of the top six. According to this list, they're the only team that have two of the top 10. So just based off of these two position groups, you know, the Texans on paper seem to have the most talent in the league. And most of those guys outside of Daniel Hunter, but most of those guys are young guys. Obviously, we've talked a lot about CJ Stroud, at some point either going to have to get paid or making another decision at the quarterback position. So my question in all this is like, how much pressure is on the Texans right now? How big is this window that you have all this young talent on defense? You got to make sure you get it done now before maybe things do start to change or the names start to change on the defense here in the years.

[Seth Payne]

You know, it's. It's a really good question because, you know, one thing people say all the time is it's hard to have good defenses consistently year after year. If you have a. Generally in the NFL, if you have a really good quarterback, you're going to consistently have a good passing offense. You know, there's going to be up years and down years and everything. But on defense, it's trickier because you've got multiple different guys that play a key role, and it's hard to keep the entire band together. You know, they weren't going to keep the Legion of Boone together forever, but there are some defenses that, you know, thinking about, the Ravens and the Steelers really, for a long stretch of time, consistently had really good defenses. And the way they were able to sustain that was partly through just scouting really well. But then the other part of it is having really smart defensive coordinators and having a head coach that really cares about defense. So it's, it's certainly possible to just have a long, long stretch of really good defense. If you look at the way the Texans are operating right now, I think the one thing I always try to remind myself is that, all right, Derek Stingley is the only first round draft pick in that defensive backfield. You know, Jalen Petrie was a guy that was kind of up and down in his first couple years in the league. D' Ameco's first year, he was benched for a portion of the season, and he's turned into what he is now, not just because he's worked hard and et cetera, et cetera, and he's very talented, but also because they do a really good job of coaching these guys up. So that's the, that's the part where I I've got confidence that they're going to be able to continue to develop. Guys, you're, I mean, you're. Some guys you just can't replace. But the pass rush is the thing that really makes it go. D' Amico will call it the engine of the, the defense. That's where at some point, if Daniel Hunter gets too expensive or if he just gets old, that, that's, that's, that might be the toughest thing to replace. You've got the benefit having two top 10 pass rushers on your team right now. And that makes everybody, that makes everybody better. That makes everybody else on the field look better. Like, are you, can you realistically expect to have two guys like that at any given time off into the future? Probably not.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, that's true. Like I said, I mean, they're the only team on this list that have two players on this list. So it's not a common thing. Thing for NFL teams to have these two great pass rushers. So.

[Seth Payne]

Scary thing. Yeah. And the scary thing is if you end up with like, you know, like, hey, the 49ers, you got Nick Bosa. Awesome. Yeah, but like, how often do you have Nick Bosa? He's got, I think he's on his second ACL right now, right? Yeah. He's torn his second ACL in his career. He's recovering from that. So that's. The precariousness of it for me is in this defense, especially the way d' Ameco operates, I feel like you can, you can still be, you can still be. If you removed Derek Stingley or Kamari Lasseter. I'm not comfortable currently with the backups, but if you replaced one of those guys with, with a quality cornerback, I think it could still be a really, really good defense. Not going to be as good. But if you lose, if you lost one of your edge rushers for an extended period of time, that's where I would. I think it might be a more drastic fall off.

[Sean Pendergast]

Defensive tackles list comes out today, so we might be able to just skip over that one.

[Seth Payne]

Tommy Togi might get some honorable mention. Okay, that's. That's right, Tommy Togie. There's a couple guys on the Texans right now that people are looking at and saying, hey, listen, I'm a ball knower. People nationally, I'm a ball knower. I know how to pronounce Tommy Togei's name and I know who he is. And this is the guy you got to watch. Everybody in Houston knows how good Tommy to was. Last year. But like randomly in the off season especially we're looking at depth charts where Tommy Togi is listed as the, the third defensive tackle. And all like it's, it was, it was kind of frustrating. But now all of a sudden people are catching on to him and I'm guessing a couple of anonymous execs are going to mention his name. He won't be in the top 10, but they're going to mention his name.

[Ben]

Right?

[Sean Pendergast]

Well, we'll wait for the list. See, see if he makes it on there. But top 10 edge rushers, Texans well represented. Of course you can find that list. Coming up, we got to get to the headlines, including one former Astro great is retiring at the end of the year. We'll talk about that next. Payne and Pendergast.

[Seth Payne]

Payne and Pendergast. With today's headlines powered by Men's Tea Clinic.

[Sean Pendergast]

Let's get to the headlines here on this Thursday. Pain and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow in the Sean alongside Seth Payne. Astros lose yesterday 8 to 2 to the nationals. Spencer Arrighetti getting knocked around again. So the Astros dropped that series. We'll talk more about the strobes throughout the morning. But the maybe bigger news from yesterday is the fact that former Astro Justin Verlander announced his retirement at the end of the season. He's currently on the Tigers. He's injured. He's only pitched once all year and he'll be retiring at the end of the season. And then Major League Baseball announced that the commissioner, he can add somebody to the All Star Game every year. They invented that for Albert Pujols as he was retiring. And they're going to add Verlander as like that legacy All Star to the All Star Game this year. So Justin Verlander announced his retirement.

[Seth Payne]

Ah, a name we can celebrate under like unlike Pooholes that that'll be, you know, now people love to at least at one point there will be a headline saying or on ESPN or something saying who does which hat does? Which hat does Justin Verlander wear? Which he doesn't have to. They don't have to do that anymore. They don't have to choose a hat to wear. And yet I'm guessing that he'll go in as a Tiger. What do you think?

[Sean Pendergast]

I don't know. Everyone seems to say Tigers and I guess so. I mean he went back to Detroit obviously this year. That's where he started. But you want a damn world right like his. And actually if you look at his era with each team his best years were with the Astros. You mentioned the world, you know, so it's hard.

[Seth Payne]

You know what? I bet he goes in without a hat. I think he goes in just as a Major league baseball player. Yeah. That's a tough one to choose. You got the organization that you spent the majority of your career with on the one hand, brought you in and all that, but then you have the other one where you just. You were. You were the best. You had a couple of the best teams in the. In the league, even in a year where you didn't win the World Series in one of those years.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, I mean, he probably is a Tiger, I guess, and maybe I'm biased, and maybe it's partially recency bias, but I do think of him as an Astro, first and foremost, more so than his early Tiger years.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

So, you know, I don't know. We'll see. It's kind of like Roger Clemens had his whole career, and I think he did go in as a Red Sox, but I still believe most people don't really think of him as a Red Sox. He started his career there, but then he goes to New York and wins all those World Series and obviously finishes in Houston.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

And, yeah, maybe it's that recency bias again, but, like, I think you always think of the team you have most success with and the team that maybe you were with later in your career more so than that first team.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. And where do you really want to spend your time in retirement anyway? You're going to be in Detroit or you're going to be in Houston. He loves golf. He's going to be in Houston.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yes, it's true. So Justin Verlander announced his retirement. Oldest player currently in Major League Baseball, but he'll be retiring at the end of the.

[Seth Payne]

How old is he?

[Sean Pendergast]

43? 42?

[Seth Payne]

You know what? Okay, this is a weird thing to feel a little bit sad about, but he did want to play until he was 45, or at least he had tossed that age out there. You know, Nolan Ryan is still. It's. It's funny how many of these modern athletes will still cite Nolan Ryan despite all of the advances in nutrition and medicine and recovery and everything. That's like, that's how impressive it was for Nolan Ryan to see still be the guy that set the bar for hey, I want to play. Until, like, he kind of showed that.45. You can still do it.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah. And I'm glad you bring that up, a Nolan Ryan, because I want to get into that later on this morning because of A conversation that's being had right now in the sports space. But yeah, Verlander is 43 years old. Only the one appearance this year. He's been injured for the entire season. Last year, 4 and 11 for the Giants. Started off terribly, but he did end up getting his ERA under four. So, you know, went healthy. He was still pitching. Okay. I know it wasn't so great his last season with the Astros, but Verlander retiring obviously. Sure. First or sure hall of Famer, I'll say. Who knows when the one they'll actually put him in. Mark Cuban is suing the Dallas Mavericks as he's claiming that the new owner is freezing him out and he's claiming that they had a handshake deal that would keep Mark Cuban involved in certain aspects of the organization. So now he's taken the Mavs and their owners to court over this.

[Seth Payne]

Oh, could have never seen this coming. You could never seen this coming the day that he sold the organization but maintained that he was still gonna, you know, have some kind of a role in it. And. Oh, and it's a handshake agreement. That'll be that, boy. What are the legal prospects of him winning this based on a handshake agreement and vague. And a vague notion of exactly how much he was or was not going to be allowed to be involved?

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, I was going to ask you that. Where are you on handshake agreements? Do you need a legal written document or can you do it? Do you uphold a handshake agreement?

[Seth Payne]

I generally my rule of thumb, you know, like it's not hard and fast, but anytime a transaction involves billions of dollars, I want it in writing. I'm kind of a stickler that way. I'm kind of old school. I'm like, alright, this is a transaction that involves billions of dollars. Let's just go ahead and put it in writing. Okay? Let's not just get. Let's not rely on us both interpreting a handshake and a wink is meaning exactly what we mean. You know what, I put this one on Cuban. How the hell are you showing up demanding satisfaction based on a handshake? In a transaction such as this, someone

[Sean Pendergast]

also put out a text message on the day of the sale. And I don't know. Again, you have to try to verify everything on the Internet. But I believe he was a reporter, was a account with a blue check mark, which I know doesn't mean much anymore. But anyways, it was a text exchange from supposedly the day of the sale to the new owner where somebody was like, hey, by the way, Mark's telling people publicly, like, that he's still going to be involved in basketball operations or whatever. And the new owner responded something along the lines of like, thanks for letting me know. We'll take care of it. Something like that. So, yeah, so I think it's just like a Mark. Maybe he just assumed himself, like, oh, yeah, like, I'll still be around. I'm going to be running things.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, no, that's a classic when you leave anything vague in a situation like that. And this, where it happens with GMs and players all the time, is where a GM says, don't worry, we'll take care of you, which could mean vastly different things. You know, hey, hey, just make it through this year, and then we'll take care of you. And in the player's mind, he's like, oh, he's going to make me a. He's gonna make me the highest paid running back in the league. And in the GM's mind, it's like, well, we'll come to a reasonable agreement between both sides. But it's kind of a big deal. Like, it's. It's something you try to brush off as a minor detail. It's actually a huge thing. Like when you buy a team from. From Mark Cuban, a guy who's notoriously has a difficult time keeping his mouth shut, and you just say. And you just figure, okay, cool, we'll figure it out as we go. I. I don't think I. I don't trust Mark Cuban on this.

[Sean Pendergast]

Cuban said he thought he was going to the. He had. They had an agreement that he'd continue to run basketball operations. But then the Mavericks brought in Nico Harrison, who had full control of the basketball side. And Cuban also says that he was unaware. This is what he says in the lawsuit. Unaware of the plan to trade Luka Doncic. I almost wonder if it's like, Cuban, I don't know if he'd go through all this effort, but, like, trying to save face, because people do blame him. Like, you. You sold the franchise. And then immediately they trade away Luka. And it looks like they're tanking and they don't care. And people bl. Like, Mark Cuban, you ruined the Mavericks. So I don't know if this is him trying to, like, save his legacy of, like, hey, I had nothing to do with this. This wouldn't have happened with me.

[Seth Payne]

I mean, the way the Doncic trade went down, especially where nobody, Jason Kidd, didn't know that Doncic was getting traded. Nobody except Nico Harrison, who was acting like he was the mastermind of all masterminds and keeping it a secret. Nobody knew. I didn't consult anybody. I just let Rob Palanka tell me what to do, and it was awesome. Yeah. All right.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah. He almost comes off as, like, the townie Mark Cuban, where, like, you sold the team, go off and enjoy retirement. The person who, you know, graduated from high school, but they're still hanging around five years later, like, move on with your life.

[Seth Payne]

Or he's just, like, he sold his bar, but. But he's there every day. Yeah. Right now, like, he's the most annoying customer at the bar. He sold the bar, and he just sits there and criticizes the way it's being operated.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, you sold it. Move on. And from my experience, no, whenever anyone sells their company, they're happy with what the new person does with it, because, you know, that was your baby. Lastly here on Headlines, the FBI is investigating Argentina soccer as they get ready to continue in the World Cup. Being accused of money laundering and different financial crimes. I don't know how much it's related to the actual team, but, you know, people are putting on the tinfoil hats and running with it and saying, like, hey, Argentina's had two great comebacks in this World Cup. Seems fishy. And then today, in the other match today, where Argentina will play the winner, all of the officials in that match are Argentinian, apparently. So it just seems like, I don't know, there's some smoke around Argentina right now.

[Seth Payne]

That's the whole thing when. So with the US when, you know, Trump called the FIFA president and everything, and that was a big deal. They get a lot of criticism internationally from all of that I did. There was a part of me that was without. Like, I had zero. I had zero desire to leap into that whole debate or that whole fray, but there was a part of it that just. I kept reminding myself, yeah, people, FIFA does crap all the time that people aren't happy with. Like, this is a blip in the radar and it's gonna be bigger because it's the US but, like, FIFA is so sketchy and does so many things that people just don't trust. It's a. It's amazing that there as. It's amazing that they just continue to get away with it and have the monopoly on the whole deal that they do because, man, nobody trusts them.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah. Oh, fraud in. In FIFA.

[Seth Payne]

Right, Right.

[Sean Pendergast]

You don't say. So Argentina is being investigated by the FBI currently. Those are your headlines.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. And to be clear, that's yeah, Argentina is being investigated, not FIFA, but when it comes to officials, which officials were in that match, et cetera, et cetera, that becomes a FIFA thing.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, yeah, right. So that people are up in arms about the match today, which involves France, who's the heavy favorite, and yet all these officials. Argentinian. It's like, huh, this seems a little suspicious. So we'll see how that goes today out on the pitch, as they say. Coming up, how much better, truly will the Texans offensive line be this year? We'll talk about that next. Payne and Pendergast Oregon Parks make an

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[Seth Payne]

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[Sean Pendergast]

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[Seth Payne]

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[Sean Pendergast]

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[Seth Payne]

They're a good source of fiber and come in delicious flavors like banana dark chocolate with sunflower seeds.

[Sean Pendergast]

Find Belvita at your local store today. Gone south has been a podcast about

[Seth Payne]

crime in the American south, but for our new season, we're widening the lens.

[Sean Pendergast]

Follow and listen to Gone South South

[Seth Payne]

Season 5 wherever you get your shows.

[Sean Pendergast]

How much better should we expect the Texans offensive line to be this year? It's Payne and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow in for Sean alongside Seth Payne. You can Always text the show 713-572-4610 get to us in the YouTube and Twitch chats as well. Yeah. So, you know, as I keep saying, this is the season of lists this year, this time of year as we wait for training camp to begin in about two weeks. So Warren Sharp, who has Sharp analytics, he.

[Seth Payne]

Sharp football dot com, I think. No, I can't remember. Yeah, it's Sharp football analysis. That's what it is.

[Sean Pendergast]

Okay, well, he's a big analytical guy. That's how. That's how I'll rephrase it. Yeah, but Sharp football, Warren Sharp, he ranked the best offensive lines for 2026. And he actually, he did an article on his website that you could go see where he gives a blurb for each team. But on Twitter he just listed the teams ranking the best offensive lines. And you look at, oh, number one, Denver Broncos, two Eagles. Okay, you scroll down. 10. Oh, Falcons, nice. Okay. The Lions, 14th, you know, so on, so forth. Oh, the Jaguars, 17th. Okay, keep scrolling. Oh, the Chiefs, 23rd, Ravens right behind them. Keep scrolling. Where, where are The Texans? Titans, 30th.

[Commercial Announcer]

Okay.

[Sean Pendergast]

At the Houston Texans, 31st on his list, only ahead of the Cleveland Browns. Despite bringing in, you know, three new starters and whatever else Warren Sharp right now has, the Texans still is having the second worst offensive line for 2026.

[Seth Payne]

Okay, so this, this is, this falls into a weird category for me of I disagree with them being that low. And yet at the same time, what am I going to get do get angry about anybody disparaging the Texans offensive line. I think that until they show and prove that, yeah, this, this yet again revamped offensive line can show up and do something, can actually push human beings more than a half yard or so off the line of scrimmage. I just, I refuse to get rankled by any kind of perceived disrespect or anything that on paper it just looks like, it just looks like a bunch a few new names and then some guys that have to play better than they did last year. Ariante Ursary, I thought had a very promising rookie year, he's got to take the proverbial step forward. I think that some of the rankings of the offensive line right now for people like Warren Sharp, who he's, he's always struck me as one of these analytics types who thinks that NFL coaches are idiots because they don't pass 90% of the time like they, you should be passing the ball every single down that I'm guessing pass protection ranks more highly with him than the, the run pass balance. And like Wyatt Teller last year just had some Rough spots in pass protection. He wasn't. He wasn't the classic version of himself. Ed Ingram was awesome as a run blocker, less consistent as a pass protector. You've got either Jake Andrews or a rookie at center. And then he might not. He probably doesn't, doesn't. He doesn't weight Braden Smith's run blocking ability as highly as he might factor in his pass blocking ability. So I get where he might be coming from. I think it's. I still think it's far too low, but I, but I refuse. I fight with every fiber of my being against being offended by it because it's. Because this is what, this is the. This is the bed the Texans offenses made for themselves. They got to prove that they're actually a viable offensive line.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, I was surprised with how reasonable Texans fans were about this online. Having a. Pretty much a similar reaction to you of. Of. I don't know if I'd put them at 31st, but I get it right. I figured a lot of, I figured a lot of outrage of like, how dare you. We made all these moves. How dare you. But yeah, I think Texans fans are so beaten down here in recent years that it's like, yeah, you know, our offensive line has been bad. We have to wait until they actually can prove that they can have a good offensive line.

[Seth Payne]

Here's a guy, I don't know if he's a Texans fan or not, but I think it probably characterizes it. I'll try to say this in a furious voice. Minor nitpick. Texans improve their O line more than 31st should be four to seven spots higher. It is. It's. It's a depressing. It's a depressing thing to get in an argument about. Like, no, no, no, listen. They are not the 31st offensive line. They are at least 27th, sir. Yeah. Anytime you start off an objection with minor nitpick, a pretty good indication that people aren't overly po'd about this.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, it's true. So I was a little surprised because usually everyone's. Anytime you say something negative about their team, they're ticked off. But. But Texans fans get it.

[Seth Payne]

Exons fan says this Texans improve significantly, expecting them to be closer to 15. Like, yeah, all right, you're. You bastard. You're calling them bad when in fact they're mid.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

How dare you. How dare you disrespect our very mid offensive line. Now they really. What it comes to with the offensive line is it's, it's, it's got to be Faith in Popovich and Cole Popovich, the offensive line coach, because there's just, you know, you can find a bunch of people that will tell you, look, man, you can have five average offensive linemen and have a really solid offensive line as long as they're all coached up real well and playing together. And I think they did. They made progress in that last year, and it still wasn't what you wanted, but they were playing more uniformly with good technique, not making as many mental errors in the second half of the season. And I think that just by virtue of adding a bunch of veterans as well, and I almost. I'll include Trent Brown in that, because you didn't know that Trent last year at the beginning of the season, you don't know if I didn't know if Trent Brown was ever, ever going to play football again. Like a guy in his 30s at that size, coming off a patellar tendon tear. That's a big deal for an offensive lineman. So that going into this season compared to last year, the thing that I'm most optimistic about is that they've just got a better complement of veteran players who play a certain style of football. There's more of a. There's more of an actual theme to what they want on the offensive line. Right now. I feel like they've got. They've got a purpose, and it's that we're going to be a team that can run the ball and we'll take care of. We'll use that to make it easier in pass protection by virtue of the play action and everything else. So I feel, I do feel like. Because I think Warren Sharp labeled this ranking as predictive. Right. Like what he's predicting they'll be. And I would predict that, yeah, at the very least, they're going to be a mediocre offensive line. Then above and beyond that, that's where maybe Cole Popovich can start to make a name for himself as an offensive line coach. If he takes this group and turns them into a genuinely good offensive line, I will heap praise upon praise for Cole Popovich because there it's. It'll be evidence that he really knows what he's doing.

[Sean Pendergast]

Warren Sharp did say that the Texans could be the team that exceed these rankings to the largest degree. So in, in a sense, they might have like the highest ceiling or the highest potential. Um, he said they shifted from 27th in man blocking percentage in 2020, number two last year, only behind the Rams, where Nick Kaylee came from. But he said with an offensive line not suited for it. And without a real number one running back, year two of Kaylee running this system might be better.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. And, and that's kind of how I've been with the offensive line in their strategy over the last few years. Well, and especially running on into d' Amico's first year, I had a hard time figuring out what kind of guys they even liked. I, you know, because you'd have some guys that look like more athletic zone blocking type guys and you have other guys that are just huge maulers. And going back to OTAs this year in that first OTA, I think my first impression of just seeing the offensive line as they're walking out as a group is like, is, was that okay? This is a. This is a more physically impressive offensive line. Like this looks like a classic. They get off the bus and you're thinking, oh, this, this is a. It's going to be a physical battle today. And it feels like they have more of a theme for the type of guys that they're going after. So that alone, you know, just the old. What's the old saying? A good plan well executed will beat a brilliant plan poorly executed. You know, every single time. That's where it feels like they've got a good and solid plan at least and you don't have to stock it up with a bunch of all pros to make it work. If you just execute the plan and you at first, A, have a plan and B, execute it properly, have a theme, have a philosophy, know what you want out of your offensive lineman. It feels like they're more on the same page with that now ice cold

[Sean Pendergast]

funk train on YouTube said they haven't proved anything, so I agree. 31st seems fair. You know what else I found interesting was espn. Again, speaking of lists or rankings, ESPN did a ranking this week of the most talented rosters in the NFL based off of starters, and they have the Texans at the ninth most talented roster. But that's even with them saying biggest weakness offensive line. This group is perhaps the NFL's shakiest starting five and remains a major concern. That's a real credit, I guess, to the defense, where you can have the 9th most talented roster even with what they list as maybe the worst offensive line in the league.

[Seth Payne]

Right, the worst offensive line. I'm guessing they don't have C.J. stroud ranked all that high. People generally aren't all that enthusiastic about David Montgomery outside of Houston. Yeah, that. It's a, It's a testament to how good I. You almost say, all right, well, if, yeah, if the Texans are number one or number two, then they've got, they've definitely got the Texans offense ranked down around 18 or 19 or so to end up with that average of ninth best roster. The. I think with the offensive line, one thing that I've heard from a couple different people that I like is that you might take their top eight or nine offensive linemen and say this is one of the deeper groups in the league in terms of guys who can legitimately play NFL offensive line. You know, okay, this guy's, you don't, you don't, you don't question whether he's a viable starter or not. And that's in if you include the first round draft pick in there. But in terms of their actual top five, you don't feel nearly as good about it. Where I like that is that, man, what we've seen in the past few years is just that they've, they've had to play a whole bunch of offensive linemen. If you go back to 2023, which is the last time people were really excited about C.J. stroud's performance. They were, they finished the 15th ranked offensive line in 2023, which I was kind of surprised when I went back on pff. I went back to PFF just to look for it, just to try to be objective about things. And the thing about that year was that they had a long stretch of like capable offensive line play, but then they had a whole bunch of injuries. They ended up playing 14 different offensive linemen during the season that year. But the big things that year, remember, okay, Laramie Tunsall was still Laramie Tunsall and still a good offensive lineman. Shaq Mason, I think that was, that was just as he was getting, he was starting to get old, but he was still a viable offensive lineman. But then George Fant was the swing tackle that you didn't really expect much out of, that came in and actually played way better than you expected. And there was a little bit of a, there's more of a veteran stability on that offensive line in a lot of ways than I think CJ's had in the last couple years. And it was lo and behold, with a mediocre offensive line, that was when C.J. stroud had his most promising performance as an NFL player. That's why, like to me, getting back to media to mediocre is a, is a big step forward and you get a better feel for exactly what C.J. stroud is as a quarterback.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, because look, I was going to say how could you be the ninth best team in the league if you have the worst offensive line? But then I was thinking they kind of did that last year where their offensive line was towards the bottom of the league, and yet they finished in the top. You know, really should have been top.

[Seth Payne]

And scoring.

[Sean Pendergast]

Okay. But just, you know, overall, I'm saying as an overall team, they still finish.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

You know, I mean, they should have been, for all intents and purposes, the AFC representative in the Super Bowl. So usually you wouldn't think of a team being that good without a decent offensive line, but the Texas have been doing that. So imagine if they do get decent on the offensive line. That's. That's been the whole conversation.

[Seth Payne]

Right.

[Sean Pendergast]

Right.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. No, and look, it's not like it's. It might be the most lopsided of the teams that are in the top third. Are they one of the most lopsided teams in terms of how, like, where you would rank their rosters right now? The Seahawks. The Seahawks are ranked third. Excuse me? So the Seahawks are ranked third. And obviously their offense was way better than the Texans last year. The Ravens are fifth. The Ravens are. The Ravens are interesting to me. I think I told you earlier this week that I feel like people are talking about the Ravens as if John Harbaugh is still the head coach, that they just.

[Ben]

They.

[Seth Payne]

Because that's what they did with the Saints for a couple of years. They would talk about the Saints as if Sean Payton was still the head coach. Because when a head coach is there for so long, you almost start to just identify a team as being like, well, the Ravens are always consistently competitive, and they've got Lamar Jackson. And look, their defense. People still errantly believe that the Ravens defense is always good, when, in fact, in the last few years, they've had these weird seasons where they're actually a bad defense for the first half of the season, then they play in the second half of the season like one of the best defenses in the league. But there's a lot of things systemically about the Ravens that I just. I don't have as much faith in them as it seems like a lot of the power rankings do.

[Sean Pendergast]

In case you were curious, on this ranking, The Jaguars were 16th for most talented roster. Colts 20th, Titans 28th. So that's the rest of the division. Here's friend of the show who is 16th. Jaguars.

[Seth Payne]

Okay.

[Sean Pendergast]

I believe. Right. I think I have that right. 16th. Colts 20th. Titans 28th. When looking at the rest of the division and how their rosters stack up, Friend of the show, Ross Tucker. Was this with Houston Stressens? Is that where this audience.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, this is Garrett on Garrett Williams YouTube channel.

[Sean Pendergast]

Awesome. Here's Ross talking about the offense line first. Talking about how, you know, Casario made a bunch of moves.

[Seth Payne]

So this is the second year in a row where Casario has done this where he's thrown a lot of volume at the position.

[Sean Pendergast]

So.

[Seth Payne]

But right now I think they have 10 guys that have played, you know, or a first round pick. Right. So 10 guys that you'd like to think if they were out there would be good enough to not be the reason why the Texans lose and give them depth for injuries, I think. Oh, the bad edit by me. I was waiting for it myself. What Ross. It's hard with Ross because he's a very slow talker. Right. And he takes pauses. So. So I should have cut that, I think out of there.

[Sean Pendergast]

He had me at the edge of my seat of like, what are you thinking about Ross?

[Seth Payne]

I think Luke is something is a little quirk of pain and pender gas is that I try to help Ben out by editing audio myself and end up making it way more miserable for Ben. So yeah, as far as that, though, like the 10 guys who have actually played in the NFL, like that's. That's a. I. What he's saying there, I agree with partly in that a lot of those backups, if you had an offensive line composed of nothing but the sixth through 10th guys, then that's not going to be a very good offensive line. But there are guys that you can plug in. Just like most good offensive lines in the NFL these days have at least one guy on there where he's just along for the ride. But if you can. If you can keep his workload and exactly how much pressure and focus there is on him to a minimum, then yeah, you can still be a really effective offensive line with that.

[Ben]

But.

[Seth Payne]

But they at least now have. As opposed to the last few years, I think, where they were just. They were penciling guys in as starters early in training camp who still hadn't even proven that they could play in the NFL. You know, when you just. You go into camp and Kenyon Green's getting all the reps at left guard and wondering where, like, why is this guy not facing any competition? I just don't get it that it doesn't feel like that anymore. And I do it. Like, I think that. I think the best evidence of that is that right now it's really easy to draw up the depth chart and say okay, Wyatt Teller is your left guard and Braden Smith is your right tackle. I'm not convinced that that's 100% a certainty, even with health, because remember last year you signed Cam Robinson as a veteran offensive tackle and free agency to a nice chunk of money, not an exorbitant contract, and he's off the team within the first few weeks. So I feel good about those additions with Braden Smith and Wyatt Teller, and I don't think either of them will be off the team within a few weeks, but I think Braden Smith and Trent Brown might be in more of a competition than you realize. I think if, if perhaps, you know, depending on how healthy and consistent Wyatt Teller is during camp, if Keelan Rutledge is struggling at center but is looking really good taking guard reps, that Wyatt Teller might be facing some competition from Keelan Rutledge. So, like, now you've got, okay, you got a first round draft pick that might be competing with a former all pro guard for who's going to be the starter, as opposed to last year when it was, all right, Lake and Tomlinson and Juice Scruggs are going to battle it out to see who the starting left guard is. And by the end and six months later, neither of them are even on the team. And in the second half of the season, those guys aren't even playing like that was a. That was a much worse situation than what they have right now. They've got actual competition now.

[Sean Pendergast]

You mentioned Keelan Rutledge. More Ross Tucker here with Houston Stressings. Ross talking about how Rutledge is the key.

[Seth Payne]

It's debatable how much Wyatt Teller has left. I thought he still did some really positive things last year. I think Keelan Rutledge is going to be, pardon the pun, but the key, you know, to move a guy that was at guard to center to kind of give him the keys to the castle, I mean, that is. That's a significant, significant decision. They must really, really believe in the young man. I certainly loved his tape at Georgia Tech. Love him getting after people, snapping the ball first. You know, the mental aspect of playing center is a little bit different. You know, Stroud's getting there in terms of experience, but I wouldn't call him a wily veteran yet. So I do think, you know, they're going to test Rutledge early, both physically and mentally, and it'll be sink or swim. We'll see whether or not he can rise to the challenge. There is a chance, you know, there might be some growing pains in a new position early. Ben, I need you to throw the. I think at the end of every time we play a Ross Tucker. Yeah, I think this is what Ross Tucker thinks. Yeah, that's. And we saw that in OTAs in minicamp. They're going to get Kaylin Rutledge, a lot of snaps at center, literally saying, man, now I'm doing the inadvertent pun. They're going to. Because he needs to just get the physical muscle memory of snapping the football while also making. Doing all the mental work and the physical challenges of learning to play in the NFL. It's a lot. And some guys have done it. You know, like, there's. There's a good number of examples of guys who played guard or tackle in college and then went to play center in the NFL. The guy that I always think of first is Matt Burke, the Minnesota. He was a. He was a tackle at Harvard, and when he got drafted, we. Those of us who played in the Ivy League, we're all kind of like, huh, wow. Really? Like, it wasn't like he was an incredibly impressive, overpowering offensive lineman when he was a tackle in the Ivy League. He gets the NFL and they try him out at center, and he ends up being a perennial All Pro at center. So it's like there's any number of examples of guys who have done it, but it's just not. It's not as simple as, oh, yeah, since he's a good enough athlete to play guard or tackle, then certainly he'll be good at center. It's just a different set of challenges. And those first few weeks of camp, the biggest thing that I'm looking for, first and foremost, is that his shotgun snaps are more consistent, because that was the one thing during OTAs, that, man, all those other centers, whether it's Evan Brown or Jake Andrews or other guys who have played the position, they're a lot more consistent with the snap. And we. And even then, we know that Jake Andrews had some issues with the snap in the Steelers game, that if he can consistently snap the ball well while also still handling guys like Tommy Togiai in practice, that's going to be a really good sign. That's a. That's a rare offensive line battle that I think you could actually read into a lot of what's going on in practice, because it's hard. It's hard to evaluate in practice the offensive lineman and interior offensive lineman and defensive lineman because there's so many of the physical things they can't do. But I think that if he's Consistently snapping the ball well and he's having good reps and pass protection and looks like he's getting movement in the run game in the first couple of weeks. Then I think it's an almost certainty that it'll be the starting center. If he's struggling, then there's going to be questions, you know, and we're going to have to see.

[Sean Pendergast]

I feel like it's the most under talked part of this Texans team and maybe I'm just not hearing the conversations, but yeah. Keelan, Rutledge, the fact that you're going to have a rookie already, a struggling offensive line with a young quarterback, you're hoping to improve this offense and you're going to have a rookie center who's moving over. It's a new position, new league, he's only a rookie and he's going to be that center working with Shroud trying to figure this all out. Look, the ultimate goal is obviously to go in a Super bowl. And to my research, only one time has a rookie center started the entire season and led a team to a Super Bowl. So obviously it's a hard thing. And when you already talk about the questions on this offensive line, it just feels like man at the center position. To have a rookie learning the position and the NFL all at the same time with. Yeah, it's just, it seems like a lot.

[Seth Payne]

It's what they love. They love taking CJ and putting inexperience and youth in front of. I mean Jake Andrews last year was a guy, he played 70 snaps in the NFL up to that.

[Sean Pendergast]

True. Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

And, and I, if I recall correctly, none of them were at center in actual NFL games. And, and he figured out and got better as the year went along. But it's just these first. I mean we saw it last year. I, I have a hard time and honestly with the Rams. So it's not just the Texans, it's the Rams who are really, really good and proven NFL team that sometimes they treat like these first few games of the season like we'll figure it out.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

No, when you start off 03 like with the Texans last year, it's really, really hard and you don't end up with home field advantage. You know, the Rams don't play any of their starters during the preseason, hardly at all. And then they often go out and struggle in the first few games of the season. Like man, that's. Those are kinds of. You only get 17 of these. McVay, I know you're not an analytics guy, but that's, that's Relatively basic math.

[Sean Pendergast]

It's true. I know. But, yeah, I mean, Belichick's done that at times. In September 8, you read a little bit like, you fool around in September, figure things out, try to turn it on.

[Seth Payne]

Belichick also. You know what? This is the thing about Belichick, though. Belichick was really good at figuring out what his team was. And over the course of the first half of the season, a lot of times, you'd see these huge methodological shifts. And, you know, the year they played the Rams in the super bowl, that was the one where all of a sudden, midway through the season, you know what we're running football team. This is what we do. Well, we're going to lean into it. This is what we do. And the. With him, I always felt like it wasn't as much of a. It wasn't. It wasn't like he wasn't. It wasn't like he was trying to preserve and rest guys or anything. It was that he was just genuinely trying to figure out his own team and, like, what they needed to lean in.

[Oregon Lottery Announcer]

Right.

[Sean Pendergast]

Right. Yeah, that's fair.

[Seth Payne]

I think they were just like. I think sometimes they just weren't actually that good a football team at the beginning of the year, but they just had. They had really good position coaching. That's what. And that's why I like d' Ameco transitioning to this role where he realizes his job is to coach the coaches as much as it is the players, because Belichick was really good at coaching his assistant coaches. So you'd see. I would always watch their defensive line. And at the beginning of the season, I'm like, God, these guys, they're just not that good. And then I would check in midway through the season on the Patriots, and I'm like, who are they? Who are these guys? Who they. Oh, it's the same guys. They're just playing much better football. They're just. They've They've actually improved in the midst of an NFL season at their technique and these details and all of those things.

[Sean Pendergast]

On the text line, someone says the reason you're not hearing a lot of talk about Rutledge is because it's July. Yeah. Okay. So I guess we shouldn't talk about the meteor when it's on the way to earth. You just talk about it once it actually hits down and, you know, crushes the world. It's. You're trying to forecast. I think it's a very big concern or question for this. This entire team who said we Weren't

[Seth Payne]

hearing anything about Rutledge. Would you?

[Sean Pendergast]

Well, I had referenced that. I feel like it's, it's not as big of a talking point. I don't hear enough conversations about like the concern trying to have a rookie center who's changing positions on an offense that has been struggling or offensive line that we're still trying to figure out.

[Seth Payne]

Right. Yeah. You're specifically talking about like for when people are talking about the Texans and previewing it. Everything this time of year where those are the kinds of things where you talk about Rutledge. I think you're 100% correct in that there's a tendency sometimes to forget that 50% of first rounders don't really work out. You know that it's. That it's never, it's never a slam dunk. Oh, they drafted them late in the first round, did they? Well, clearly, clearly that's going to be. That'll be an improvement. It's just not especially. So 50% on average in the first round, not as high in the, in the. At the back end of the first round. Offensive linemen do tend to. There tend to be fewer busts with offensive linemen, but this is an organization that also drafted Kenyon Green. So the. There's a six of one, half dozen the other. Yeah, it's all. It's hard to say.

[Sean Pendergast]

Track records. Not great.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

But to your point. Yeah. Offensive lines, the position group that has the highest percentage of guys getting the second contract with the team that drafted them. So it is technically or statistically the safest position to draft.

[Seth Payne]

But yeah, it's always felt to me like if I were a gm, it feels like that's where you get the most bang for your buck. And I would, I would, I would organize my team around always having an awesome offensive line no matter what, no matter where the pendulum swings and the, the, the coming and going of whether offense or defense is more important or running or passing or whatever. Like you're just, you're. You're more likely to succeed with your pick and you're more likely to have them around for a long time.

[Sean Pendergast]

That's true. I'm old school. I still like the old school basketball where you played from inside out. Instead of today, it's the opposite. And football, same idea. Like build from the inside out. Offensive line, defensive line, I think those are still the most important units of a successful team.

[Seth Payne]

It's still the thing that makes it. If you want to get the absolute best out of your quarterback, you can make it as Easy or as hard for your quarterback as you want when you have a really good offensive line, you know, you can put as much on his arm as you need to or you can just lean into the run game and. Or including you can. And you obviously you make him a better passer when he's well protected. But yeah, that part of it. And then just the fact that too those offensive linemen that do work out for you end up to tend. They. They get really big contracts these days that if you can control those costs without having to go out and sign a free agent or trade for a free agent at some point, you're saving a lot of money in the long term.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, certainly we did spend. It was worth it. Great conversation. We did spend more time on that than anticipating. But I do want to get to this because we've been tracking even, you know, before I stepped in this week, obviously you and Sean have been tracking this whole Brandon Iuk thing. And we played some audio from One of the McCourties with Jason McCourty yesterday, I think it was who said, hey Iuk, just put the phone down. Apparently Brandon Ayuk is not taking that advice. Here's the wide receiver.

[Seth Payne]

It'd be like BA and his social media antics.

[Sean Pendergast]

Well, I gotta get paid somehow because the employer holding me captive without pay.

[Seth Payne]

At least social media paying. I'll tell y' all what,

[Ben]

I get

[Sean Pendergast]

a job back in the NFL, man,

[Ben]

I'm still going to be on my.

[Sean Pendergast]

On social media.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, that, that right there. I'm still going to be on my BS on social media like that. That is the clearest evidence yet that he just flat out doesn't want to play football. I think he is just. I think he's. There's a part of him that's a little bit crazy right now, but I think there's also a part of it that he, he doesn't care because he doesn't really.

[Ben]

He.

[Seth Payne]

He's going to let his freak flag fly and he's not worried about it because he really doesn't care if a team signs him or not. Like that part right there. What have I said when I said, yeah, I would take a flyer and I you. If you could actually get him to sign on a minimum deal with incentive laden. The first part of the conversation you're going to have is, hey, what's. What's been going on with you, man? What's. What would like. Is it just that you were confused and angry or whatever and now are you ready to just kind of focus on Football. And he's just flat out there broadcasting it to the world. Now, I'm going to keep all of this up. I will be a distraction in your locker room. Everything that you're worried about. Even if you sign me to a minimum deal. Yes. I will make life miserable for those around me. I don't think he wants to play football.

[Sean Pendergast]

Do you think this is all sort of like then a bit that he's doing on social media for the attention? Because he said, like, I'm not getting paid by my team. I got to make money somehow. Like, is this all like a shtick he's doing now?

[Commercial Announcer]

Right.

[Seth Payne]

Because okay, I don't think. I can't imagine he's blown through the. How much has he made since he got the new contract? I can't imagine that he's blown through all that money. And whatever he's making on social media isn't nearly what he's going to be making is a. If you were paid, what is. If he were paid, what is sane? Like, a sane Brandon Iuk is going to make way more money if he just keeps his mouth shut or just even just. Just delivers statements instead of blabbing on social media or whatever. Like, he's just. He refuses to do any of it. And then he continues to lean into, like, demanding that the 49ers cut him. Well, he still hasn't filed his reinstatement paperwork that would allow the 49ers to cut him. And also like the 40, he's demonstrated already once before, he wanted off of the 49ers. 49ers tried to help him set up a deal with the Steelers and IU submarine to that. And then God knows why the 49ers decided to still give him a contract anyway. And then everything was a mess afterwards ever since then. Like the 49ers, if they were just being completely calm, cool and rational about this, which it seems like they're doing, though they've got no they. He theoretically is still a tradable asset. And you just wait and see exactly. If he does file his reinstatement paperwork, see what happens. I think Iuk, yeah. Just was trying to make it such an uncomfortable and ridiculous situation that if and when he does sign it, his sign file is for reinstatement that the 49ers do just want to wash their hands clean of them. But he's doing so much damage in terms of his sign ability right now.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

Including with the. The commanders of the team, where it seems like, man, maybe the commanders really would have Given him a respectable contract of some sort. He's probably completely destroyed that.

[Ben]

Yeah, right.

[Sean Pendergast]

By the way, spot track, spot rack, whatever it is, he has made 60 million so far in his career, but he still has another 85 million on that contract.

[Seth Payne]

It.

[Sean Pendergast]

It's crazy to be, like, walking away essentially right now from $85 million with the way he's act. Here's more. Brandon Iuk saying that, shockingly, Jaden Daniels, his at least former friend, maybe still friend, Jaden Daniels, not accepting his calls.

[Seth Payne]

He said, I don't do that Internet, bro. Hit my phone if you got to talk to me, bro. You got my number. And I called.

[Ben]

He don't answer.

[Seth Payne]

Hit my phone, bro.

[Sean Pendergast]

It's important.

[Seth Payne]

It's the money on the line. Yeah, it's the money on the line. Jaden Daniels wants nothing to do with him. No, he just wants nothing to do with this mess. I don't know. And even, like, the reports that those two are close friends and everything, I'm starting to wonder, did all of those reports come from Brandon Iuk himself? Do we know that Jaden Daniels is actually even really like life Brandon Iuk? And for any stretch of the time, I'm guessing there's evidence out there that they do. But right now, he's just. According to the source, Brandon Iuk, Jayden Daniels isn't accepting his calls, but I don't trust anything that I hear from Brandon Iuk at this point.

[Sean Pendergast]

Well, that's also true. Yeah. And I don't blame Jaden Daniels. His people are probably telling him, like, don't associate with this guy. Stay as far away from this as you can because it's. It's only going to make you look bad getting wrapped up in it. On the text line, somebody said, first video, IUK said, they're stupid for paying me. Last video, he's saying, I got to make money somehow. Pick a lane, bro.

[Seth Payne]

So it's not the people that have. It's been fun to watch the people who are adamantly defending Brandon Iuk kind of just steadily fall off the bandwagon as they start to realize, all right, man, there's just nothing defensible that he's doing right now, especially when he's the only guy that's complaining about the 49ers is this evil organization. Sure. You don't find the other. You don't find other 49ers players talking about what bastards they are or anything or how Kyle Shanahan is so evil. It's a. He's the only guy that's got these complaints and he's also the only guy who's acting like a lunatic on social media.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, he's looking around like, right guys, you're with me, right? The Niners there, this organization's crazy.

[Seth Payne]

And Samuel had nothing but praise for Kyle Shanahan and John lynch after he left.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, no, the guy's just Bonkos. Hey, coming up, there's a conversation going on in the sports world currently that really annoys me. So we have to talk about it. Next, Payne and Pendergast.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Seth Payne]

World War is the largest event in human history. A 20 part series with Tom Hanks.

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[Seth Payne]

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[Sean Pendergast]

Every single person and had a story.

[Seth Payne]

These are the stories that make us who we are. Listen to World War II with Tom Hanks on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Oregon Lottery Announcer]

Oregon Parks make an Oregon Summer. But what makes an Oregon park? Well, Oregon Lottery Gameplay helps no matter the game Megabucks, video lottery or keno funds from lottery games help support parks projects across the state, ensuring they stay safe, accessible and open for all. In fact, Discover State Park Scratches are in stores now. It's the perfect way to put a little bit of Oregon's parks in your pocket. The Oregon Lottery Together we do good things. Must be 18 or older to play lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only.

[Seth Payne]

I'm Anna Garcia, host of True Crime News, the podcast.

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Every week we bring you in depth

[Seth Payne]

coverage on cases making headlines as well

[Commercial Announcer]

as those that go under the radar.

[Sean Pendergast]

Tune in for murders that defy explanation, mystery seeking exploration, and shocking secrets that will leave you breathless.

[Seth Payne]

Each week we honor the victims by

[Sean Pendergast]

going beyond the salacious in our search for justice.

[Seth Payne]

Crime never stops and neither do we.

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Listen to True Crime News, available now

[Sean Pendergast]

on the Odysee app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Seth Payne]

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[Sean Pendergast]

State Farm is there the conversation going on in the sports world this week that's really annoying me.

[Seth Payne]

I'm intrigued to hear why this is annoying you. I've got my guesses.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, Payne and Pendergast. By the way, I'm Luke Morrow, in for Sean alongside Seth Payne. I just think it's stupid. The first part there. There's a few things I'll try to get to in this segment, but the main conversation is, look, Shohei Ohtani hit 300 homers, or I should say hit his 300th career homer this week. And people are saying, now, you know, Shohei Ohtani is the greatest baseball player of all time. And it's the same week that, like Messi or the same couple weeks here that Messi's doing things in the World cup. And people are saying, like, hey, he's the greatest soccer player of all time and LeBron's a free agent. And, and I won't have that debate, but Some people believe LeBron is the greatest basketball player of all time. And it's this conversation that we've been having the last few years. We're like, what an amazing time to be alive. Can you believe it? We have the best baseball player right now. We have the best Basketball player. Soccer player. Patrick Mahomes is the most talented quarterback of all time, and they're all playing at the same time. How blessed are we as sports fans in this current era to get all the best?

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

And my point is, isn't everything the best right now compared to the past? Like, a hundred years ago, you would have to wait a week to find out if everyone's eyes were open or not in a photo. And now you can take 47 stupid selfies and delete 46 of them because you thought your hair looked weird in the photos. Like, everything is better now.

[Seth Payne]

And part of that, though, too, is that when you're, there's such a recency bias in saying that somebody is the best of all time, it's so easy to sit and say, oh, yeah, Pat Mahomes is the best of all time without really thinking about it too hard. And like, no, like people will push back against that. You can make plenty of arguments that he's not the best of all time again. And it's ridiculously easy to do it. But the other part of it too is to your point about how, yeah, you have all this content available to you all the time. Look, it's not like there weren't great soccer players playing in the past. It's just they weren't mentioned in the same breath as our American sports that we're watching, you know, or the more the major league sports in America that yeah, at any given time, in any given decade, there's a bunch of great athletes playing in their respective sports. But. Yeah, so, but, but it annoys you that people are sitting down and appreciating it?

[Sean Pendergast]

Well, yeah, because like, oh, you're telling me that today's athlete is better than the athlete from 80 years ago. You had a full time job and like, you know, oh, once they, once

[Seth Payne]

they stop, they have. You mean once athletes stopped smoking cigarettes at halftime and they started actually devoting it, treating it like a full time job, that they're better now? Oh yeah, sure. Yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

And we have better, like just weight training and nutrition and these guys hire coaches because they have more money than athletes used to have. You know, athletes used to have off season jobs and everything. It's just, it's the fact that we have these conversations, we marvel, like, how amazing is this?

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

Well then you must be amazed too that we have TV now. We can actually watch things in our home when they couldn't do that. 100. Like everything is better, everything is easier now. The athletes should be better in 2026 than any other era because they have so many more resources and tools and everything else.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, the whole what a time to be alive thing, you know, every. People always like to say like, I was born in the wrong era. I, I would, I should have lived, I should have lived in the 1700s. I did. And like, yeah, enjoy, enjoy dying because you scratched your leg on a nail at the age of 17 or whatever. Enjoy, enjoy not having sewers and whatnot in your city that yeah, things are, things are generally better now in a lot of ways than they were before when it comes to the athletes, the athletic side of things. It just, it's dawned on me as man, people are just having all these debates about youth soccer and how they need to change the developmental academies and all of that stuff. It's, I think honestly, 30 years ago people just like there just wasn't as much of a There wasn't as much of this feeling or this need that my kids gotta be a professional athlete. It's the most important thing in the world. And why, why is he not. I think sports in general have just taken more importance in more people's lives and occupy a bigger part of their day that you used to just, you used to be able to. Especially before sports radio, it was. You could see highlights on the nightly news, you could read about it in the paper. And then beyond that, it was really just a whole lot of water cooler conversations and things like that. So there just wasn't as much available to you. So now the superstar guys, they do just get amped up that much more and they're more in your face from all of these different outlets that it feels like, oh, wow, we're living in the golden era of all these superstar athletes. Well, yeah, there wasn't, there wasn't really the. There wasn't really the machine that was spitting out the. All the PR on these superstar athletes back in the day.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, that too. You know, and a good thing for those guys, guys like Joe DiMaggio back then and what he was up to.

[Seth Payne]

Imagine DiMaggio and Marilyn Monroe. How annoying that would be today. Oh my God, we would be so disgusted. It would all be like, oh, great. Oh, the NFL's are the major league Baseball. There they go. I got to watch Marilyn Monroe 29 times during this game.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

And then there would be a backlash against Marilyn Monroe.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

People would be sending her pharmaceuticals in the mail. Yeah. It always existed. Yeah. There was a. Okay, Joe DiMaggio or any of those old baseball players at their given time, were they considered like, was it. Were people saying, like, well, they're the best for now, but 100 years from now there's going to be this Japanese fella that might supplant them. So don't enjoy this too much.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah. It's just you referenced Louis CK earlier this week. He has a great bit of how people take flying for granted and how, you know, back in the day, you used to have to the Oregon Trail. It would take you months to go across country and not everybody would make it alive. Like, you knew going in like, we're gonna lose some people, but we'll eventually get there. And now as he says, like you, you know, you use the bathroom, you watch a movie and you're cross country in a couple of hours. And yet.

[Seth Payne]

And you whine about it the entire time. Yeah. There's just to complain about your food not being good enough. Yeah, exactly.

[Sean Pendergast]

Rocket across or the Internet cuts out on the plane, you know, floating through the sky.

[Seth Payne]

That's legitimate. That's a legitimate beef. Because I pay this. My old rule is I, if I pay first world dollars, I will complain about first world problems. That's, that's a, that's, that's true in any, that's true in any era of history. I paid a doubloon for this. I expect, I expect satisfaction.

[Sean Pendergast]

Okay, that's fair. Depending on how much you make, I should say how much you pay, I could get behind that. Here's the other thing I dislike with this whole argument, too. Shohei Ohtani might be the greatest baseball player of all time, but when you compare him to Babe Ruth, I always hate. And we do this all the time of like, well, Babe, have you seen the people Babe Ruth played against? Yeah, but Babe Ruth is also from that era. It's not like we took Shohei Ohtani and dropped him in the 1920s and was like, yeah, but did you see the. We do the same thing with March Madness every year where we're like, yeah, but that mid major, you know, they, they only beat Mac teams compared to this team that went 500 in the SEC. Played a lot of better teams. Yes, but they're playing with mid major players. They don't have SEC talent. But you're only, you're, you're playing your peers, and you're so much better than your peers. Babe Ruth was so much better than everybody else in the league at that time. That. That's what makes him impressive. It's not like, well, you know, he was a fat guy with stubby legs. He's not as athletic as the current guy, so. But he was playing on a level playing field outside of, obviously, the segregation, but a level playing field amongst athletes in Major League Baseball at the time.

[Seth Payne]

Well, then, no, and that's even too, like, if you look at football and you look at, you know, footage from the 60s and 70s, you think, oh, these guys could never play in the NFL. Look at them. I go ahead and just like, meet Robert Brazile in person and tell me that with the benefit of modern weightlifting and everything, he wouldn't be one of the. One of the most incredibly physically impressive. Yeah. And this guy, I've only met Robert Brazil in person after he was already a, you know, a relatively old man. And he still kind of scared me because he's so damn big. Yeah. Those guys, if you just transport him forward in time and they do everything the same way guys are doing. Yeah, they're they're going to be. They would be more impressive physically.

[Sean Pendergast]

It's more impressive that Babe Ruth would eat a bunch of hot dogs and drink a bathtub of beer in the hotel every night and then go out and club these longhomers. I think that's more impressive than the guys that, you know, take such great care of their bodies today and pull off these athletic feats.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

And then the last thing I wanted to get to. And I think you, you made the good point before we came on the air here. That, that probably answers my question, but there was an article in the Athletic, you can go find it about Jordan that Chandler Rome just wrote. But, but as he writes in the, like the sub headline, he, he'd rather be out fishing and you know, whatever doing this and that than being in the spotlight. And this always seems to be a problem in Major League Baseball where their stars don't want to be in the spotlight like other sports. But I do think you brought up a good point that if somebody doesn't speak English as their main language, they probably, you know, that probably hurts things. And I do think Major League Baseball is the sport that has the most international athletes.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, they have the most international players, whereas the majority of fans in America watching are English speakers. That I, I was thinking about this while I was watching Jordan the other day in an interview, is a really good interview, but he's doing, you know, he's giving his answers through an interpreter, but he also, you know, he listens. He's one of the guys that listens to the questions in English and understands it and then uses an interpreter to give the answer. I do, I totally understand why guys do that. Like guys, some guys that speak pretty good English but still know that it's not polished. These days they're hesitant to give quotes to reporters partly because they just want to be sure that they get the answer right. And then it's also, it's just too easy for people to make fun of that or to take it out of context or whatever. But it does, it kind of removes a, it puts a little bit of a barrier emotionally when you don't actually see and hear and guy see and hear the guy, you know, speaking directly to you as often.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, certainly. Yeah, so I think that's a good point.

[Seth Payne]

Who was it? The one. Oh, it was a. It was the athletic writer from back. I'm blanking on who the player was. I'll look it up during the break. Somebody, somebody basically put a verbatim quote from a Spanish speaking player. Who's doing the interview in English with the Astros. And it ended up, like. It was kind of shady. Like, it ended up making him look like he was stupid, you know? And, like, ever since then, I've been like, yep, I totally get it. I can see why guys that don't speak perfect English are just gonna. Just. You know what? I'm gonna have my interpreter handle. And there we go.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah. That happened with another player in baseball this year where Spanish speakers on Twitter were saying, like, that's not what he said. Whatever. The interpreter said, I never.

[Seth Payne]

I need to be clear to everybody. I'm not talking about Chandler Rome. It was a previous writer. It was. So, yeah, yeah, We'll.

[Ben]

We'll.

[Sean Pendergast]

We'll try to effort that. Someone on the text line said, so we're talking about a dominance margin. Yes. That's a good phrase for it. That Babe Ruth was so much more dominant compared to the rest of his peers at the time in Major League Baseball, that. That's what makes him so special. Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

Dominance margin. I like that.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, yeah.

[Seth Payne]

Like, it doesn't. Don't try to comp. Compare apples to oranges. Compare the apples to the apples.

[Sean Pendergast]

Exactly. That's why I always say it's very annoying. Somebody said, yeah, I don't know how people could have lived in Texas with no AC back in the day.

[Seth Payne]

I don't get it at all. It's incredible. I don't understand how people do it. I don't. I'm so soft now. Yeah. I think about that. I had to. I had. I had to. When I was sleeping in my car on a long drive, and I was like, in Alabama or something, and I was like, all right, I'm just gonna pull over the rest area, and I don't want to leave my car running. That lasted about five minutes, just sitting and sweating it out in my car. I couldn't do it. So to spend my life that way, I wouldn't have made it. I would have dehydrated and cramped up and died out on the trail.

[Sean Pendergast]

Oh, me too. That's what I'm saying. It's so much easier. Everything's better today. Everything's easier. Air conditioning back then for Jay Gatsby was his handkerchief. And it's. It was so much different. And I do love the autocorrects we get sometimes where your don turned into your dawn on the text line. So appreciate that. Speaking of baseball and the Astros, when we come back, what's the Astros biggest need at the deadline right now? And do you actually want them to be buyers at this point. We'll talk about it next.

[Oregon Lottery Announcer]

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[Seth Payne]

My day kicks off with a refreshing

[Sean Pendergast]

Celsius energy drink, then straight to the gym pre K pickup back home to meal prep.

[Seth Payne]

Time for my fire station shift.

[Sean Pendergast]

One more Celsius. Gotta keep the lights on when the three alarm hits.

[Seth Payne]

I'm ready.

[Sean Pendergast]

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[Seth Payne]

Go grab a cold, refreshing Celsius at

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[Luke Morrow]

it

[Seth Payne]

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[Sean Pendergast]

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[Sean Pendergast]

Why does it feel like nobody really gives us the inside scoop?

[Commercial Announcer]

Join us on the Powers that Be, the podcast where insiders from pockets break

[Sean Pendergast]

down, who has influence, how they use it and what it actually means for you.

[Seth Payne]

New episodes every weekday.

[Sean Pendergast]

Listen to the Powers that Be.

[Commercial Announcer]

Wherever you get your podcasts, now is your time to get into a new Dr. Horton home by taking advantage of its national Red Tag Sales event. This Friday, July 10th through Sunday, August 2nd. Stop by any of its participating communities and find select red tag homes at Incredible Pricing. So whether you're buying your first home or looking for an upgrade, you don't want to miss the Red Tag sales event starting this Friday. Discover the Dr. Horton Difference. Visit Dr. Horton.com Dr. Horton, America's builder and equal Housing Opportunity Builder.

[Sean Pendergast]

What's the Astros biggest need right now and should they actually even bother making moves at the deadline? We'll talk about that here. Payne and Pendergast I'm Luke Morrow in for Sean alongside Seth Payne. Seth Somebody said on the text line, I feel like Seth's idea for NFL branded diapers is one step closer after seeing Coach prime become a spokesperson for Depends.

[Seth Payne]

Oh, is he?

[Sean Pendergast]

Apparently, yeah.

[Seth Payne]

There's a. It was. My idea was basically Underoos for adults that now. And I think they do make Underoos for adults or at least overweight children. But the. That's where I shop for my adult Underoos. I go to the Husky section.

[Sean Pendergast]

The overweight children.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. Dillards. The. The. The. It's a brilliant idea, but I lack the follow through to follow through in it. But, yeah, like Texans branded Depends undergarments and stuff. I totally go for that.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah. Well, when.

[Seth Payne]

When the day comes, when I need

[Sean Pendergast]

it, it might be yesterday. We were talking about, what pitch ideas would you bring to J.J. watt on Shark Tank? That might be one. And especially now, you got Coach prime, you know, promoting Depends.

[Seth Payne]

Does he. Does he. Does he say anything? Is there a testimonial? Does he have to use them or anything? Given his. I don't want to make light of his medical.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, right. That was. My assumption was. That's the connection. But I have no idea. That came in on the text line. I didn't know Coach prime was. Was working with the pens now, but

[Seth Payne]

I'll be improbably impressed if he actually goes full testimonial and like, talks about, like, you know, he's undergoing cancer treatment and everything. I had to. Okay. Had to do it. It's no big deal. Be like. Be like Coach Prime.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

He's making it cool. It's like in Billy Madison, right? If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

It's. It's becoming hip again.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

So the first time Dion's out there during. On the sideline, you're gonna have to see if there's a little extra bulge in his. Under his pants.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, that's always the worst for the old folks walking around. It gives them, you know, makes it look like a FUPA or something. I got the diaper underneath. Speaking of Colorado, by the way, did you. Seth, did you ever go through your NFL career without bothering to watch film on any of the opponents or anything?

[Seth Payne]

No, no, no, no. Nor in college either. Like, that was. That's one of the first big shocks to your system when you get to college is the first time you're in a film session, you're like, my God, like, how much longer are we going to do this? Why is Coach talking about the same play for. For 10 minutes in a row?

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah. Well, here was Julian Lewis of Colorado Coach Prime's team there talking about how they didn't watch film on defenses last year.

[Commercial Announcer]

Year the most since last year to now my play.

[Seth Payne]

I'm actually looking at the defenses now. Last year wasn't really looking at defense as much as kind of high school

[Sean Pendergast]

free ball and just out there playing football.

[Seth Payne]

But, you know, it's a lot bigger

[Sean Pendergast]

than that now, so should be fine.

[Seth Payne]

Which Colorado fans weren't all that happy about that, that they were just out there free balling. Speaking of depends. They were free balling. I, I could, I could go either way on this because especially when you're playing in college and in high school, there are times where it really is more about, especially with a young quarterback, getting them, getting them to understand and play and execute the scheme. And realistically, a lot of good colleges are just, they're getting guys wide open based on the play call and they're getting so much direction from the sideline that you can make the argument, yeah, that for him that year they just needed to get him to be able to execute the offense and then you take a next step and now it's with a different offensive coordinator and now he can be a little bit more advanced. But I think it probably does speak to a little bit of just, man, what a big drop off it was for Colorado as they adjusted to not having, you know, a couple of the best college football players in the country on their team, making things happen.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, maybe, maybe a big part of the reason why they went 1 and 8 in the conference last year. By the way, Pat Shermer was the offensive coordinator. He's an NFL guy, so I am surprised that they operated like that.

[Seth Payne]

But, but that's where it is. I mean, you kind of got to do a triage on the situation when you're looking at a team and when you've got young players and you're trying to install an offense or you're trying to get a young quarterback to come along. It said, okay, first and foremost we got to get them to be able to execute, execute the playbook and then you can worry about the higher level stuff later on. But it's not, it's not ideal.

[Sean Pendergast]

Obviously on the text line somebody did say, Coach prime has publicly acknowledged, acknowledged that he uses adult diapers because of his medical condition.

[Seth Payne]

So yeah, that's a good, that's a strong move by Depends. That's a, I'm guessing it's hard to get genuine celebrity like you're not going to get movie stars or anything to necessarily do that because they got to keep their cool factor as high as possible. Sure. Whereas Dion. Dion, whether. Whether you love him or hate him, you have to acknowledge that he's got a cool factor. That's. That's pretty extreme.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

And for him to do that. Yeah. I think it would make me more comfortable.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

I would go in and I would say, what are you laughing at me? No, Dion. Dion, you know, Deion Sanders is. And the 16 year old girl working the registers like, no, I have no idea. And, sir. No, I wasn't. I wasn't laughing at you. I was on my phone.

[Sean Pendergast]

I'm going to just start wearing them now, even though I don't need them because Dion's made it so cool.

[Seth Payne]

People will claim that they'll do it in, what, when they're watching sports or something, but I can't imagine that it's actually comfortable sitting there on a wet diaper.

[Sean Pendergast]

Not a chance. People will do it for Times Square for New Year's Eve because you just. You can't move. You want to get your spot, you got to get there early to go watch the ball drop. And people, apparently will wear diapers. That's got to be the worst, to walk around in a soggy diaper all night.

[Seth Payne]

I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna go out and buy some. Some Depends this afternoon.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah. Test.

[Seth Payne]

I'm gonna experiment with it to see what it's like to actually sit. Sit after you've soiled them the first time with a reasonable. With a reasonable amount of urine. I'm not gonna change my. I'm not gonna, like, you know, drink more fluids or anything.

[Luke Morrow]

It's.

[Sean Pendergast]

It's the circle of life. Jerry Seinfeld has that whole bit of, you know, your. Your last birthdays are like your first birthdays.

[Seth Payne]

You know what I need to do? I don't think my wife is listening right now. I'm gonna wear them for, like, a week.

[Oregon Lottery Announcer]

Mm.

[Seth Payne]

And just. And go in them, like, normally, like, throughout the week. I'm gonna see if she notices or not.

[Sean Pendergast]

That would be great. Then. That's a real campaign for Depends.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah, I did. I wore these for a week, and my wife didn't even notice.

[Sean Pendergast]

No smell, no tell. Depends the Astros, by the way, ask

[Seth Payne]

why we've got a Diaper Genie in the. In the pantry, but other than that. That she's not gonna have a clue.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, that's right. Well, we'll really put them to the test to see how good they are. The Astros lost last night eight to two. Spencer Getty got knocked around. He has an ERA of like almost nine here in the last seven starts. Astros pitching has not been good. They've dropped the series to the Nationals. So I asked, you know, what's their biggest need at the deadline at this point and you can let us know. 713-572-4610. Because still yesterday Dana Brown, at least before that Arrogetti outing is talking about, hey, we still, we're looking to add a left handed outfielder which has been, that's been the company statement here for the last few months. But at this point it seems like it's gotten so unshaky with this rotation that the Astros might need a pitcher more than anything else right now.

[Seth Payne]

I do, I think that if, if you're going to be aggressive with the trade deadline because it's a failure, if you're not a playoff team, etc. Etc. And all that like the biggest issue right now on this team, the thing that would make it impossible to actually win a seven game series I think is that you just, you don't have enough pitchers to actually make it through. You might as well spot the other team two wins in a seven game series because at some point, whether it ends up being a Burroughs or an Arrogetti or Imai, the they're going to, they're going to have a couple of really horrendous performances. And that first and foremost I don't even want to talk about, you know, pitching wins championships or anything. But I just like that's the most glaring issue that they have. Despite having a really healthy win loss record since late May, they're, they're doing it while also having like started. Their starting rotation have about a 6 era that, that all of a sudden you flip that with just one guy, one guy brought from outside and maybe one Christian, Javier or something actually being a good performer. It completely flips how far you could actually go in the playoffs. And replacing Bryce Matthews with a left handed bat, I don't think it does nearly as much for you as a starting pitcher right now.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, I'm with you. It's become such a glaring weakness for this team this series against the Nationals. Statistically in some categories, the best offense in baseball, the three Astros starting pitchers, none of them made it through five innings which then further tax the bullpen and that's eventually going to catch up to you as well. So a good starter is going to by domino effect help out your bullpen here down the stretch. There's a bunch of names that we throw around. You got Hunter Brown, Peter Lambert, Spencer Arrighetti, Mike Burrows, Imai Christian, Javier, Lance McCullers Jr. Blanco was new Ski. This, this Triple A guy, Ethan pekko. That's what 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 names 10 starting pitchers that we talk about for the Astros. But realistically, Seth, out of those 10, how many of them do you actually truly trust? Like say it's a playoff game today and the Astros have to pick a starter. How many of those 10 would you actually trust in a big game?

[Seth Payne]

That I really trust genuinely down in my soul trust. As long as he keeps working his way back. Hunter Brown.

[Oregon Lottery Announcer]

Right.

[Seth Payne]

And that's it. And I, and honestly man, I going to, if I, if I were to go backwards in time and just go, let's go, let's do some seven game series here. Like in the last seven games, the, the Astros have allowed eight or more runs three times. Go to the seven games before that and they allow, they have, they allow five or more runs, four out of those seven games like that. And then they had a pretty good stretch. They had a good seven game stretch where they only allow one seven game run in a seven game or one seven run outing in seven games. And then you go to another, the next one, they allow eight runs, they allow nine runs, they allow seven runs in a seven game stretch. Like it's. I, they just, they, they absolutely have to address starting pitching first and foremost if they're actually going to make a real move that makes them into a different team.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, it's the biggest weakness. I mean the offense has holes, of course, the whole roster does, but the offense is better than the starting rotation. Right now you need to address the biggest weakness, pitching. And it's only getting worse. I'm with you. Of those 10 names, Hunter Brown's the only one I trust. I would like to trust Peter Lambert, but I'm still have this Cinderella concern of, you know, the other shoes going to drop and, and can we really count on him in a pennant race or in a playoff game. He's been really good all year, but we just haven't seen this from Lambert before this year. That it's tough to still buy in that this is just the new Peter Lambert now as opposed to this has been a good stretch and he's eventually going to get figured out.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, the, I guess the one thing that saves us in the seven game series is if you have a bullpen day in there somewhere. That's. I feel way better about a bullpen day than any. Than most of the starting pitchers. The only problem with that is that, look, you've also got these starters that are only going. They're all going. This last three weeks, these last three games, not a single one of them made it through five full innings. That you can't even rely on having a bullpen day if your relievers are going to be taxed that heavily for sure.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, that's a good question too. Game one, Hunter Brown, starting in a seven game series. Game two, I assume Peter Lambert. Game three, who knows? I don't know. Spencer Arrogetti, I mean, he's been terrible for about six weeks now. Do you go with Imai and at least get three innings out of him?

[Seth Payne]

You can't even piggyback Imai because it's just, he at least does the honor of just sucking right off the bat usually and then quitting. Yeah, I know Josh Miller pulls him, but he pulled. I said, this is starting to bother me. It is like, all right, I get it, he's a rookie and all of that, but man, everybody else, everybody else out there, like, they take their medicine and they at least try to go five innings or so. With Imai, it's, oh, he's having a hard day. And guys, he's having a hard time adjusting to the, you know, what time we eat dinner and everything. So let's just be sure we get out there and get him off the mound before it gets too late. And I'm starting to, I'm trying to be a good teammate, but I'm starting to grumble. I'm starting to, I'm starting to be a little bit of a bad presence in the clubhouse.

[Sean Pendergast]

Emi reminds me of my iPhone, where you spent a lot of money on it. And my iPhone, it's great. It can do a lot of good things. You know, like when his, when his breaking stuff is on, like, oh, you could see the potential there. But the longer you have the phone, the worse your battery gets. And even though it says it's 100%, by lunchtime, it's already dying. And it's similar where by the third inning, like, oh, we already got to go to the bullpen. We didn't get the. Usually you expect five to six innings out of your starting pitcher, you can't get there. Usually I expect my iPhone to make it through the day, but because my battery is so shot after only two years, it's like, I just, I gotta keep charging this thing. It can't last long enough.

[Seth Payne]

What are you, what are you Rocking with there. On your iPhone, what version do you have?

[Sean Pendergast]

It's a good question.

[Seth Payne]

My battery has been astoundingly healthy and it's really starting to annoy me. I'd like to, I try not to always replace my phone because I feel like I just, I should be more mature than that now that I need a new iPhone all the time. I've got, I'm on an iPhone 13 still and my battery life is pristine. And I use my phone a lot.

[Sean Pendergast]

I'm on a 15. IPhone 15.

[Seth Payne]

And you live in Westview and you got an iPhone 15? Yeah, just, just pimping. You're just always flaunting all this stuff.

[Sean Pendergast]

Oh yeah.

[Seth Payne]

Okay, what's the latest version?

[Sean Pendergast]

I have no idea. I don't keep up because I'm with you. Like, I've had this for two and a half years. I never buy the new phone I, I spend. My phone bill is $41 a month. I love this phone. But my battery health, let's see, where is it battery health? Right now my maximum capacity is 81%. So even though my phone will say it's 100% charge, my battery really at its best is only 81%.

[Seth Payne]

This battery is shot because I am turning into an old man. I don't know how to check my battery life right this moment. But no, this thing has been an absolute horse. My, let's see. Well, I'm at 7% right now. How do I find out what my battery go to?

[Sean Pendergast]

Settings, battery health and charge and then go to battery. Yeah. And battery health.

[Seth Payne]

Oh, my maximum capacity is only 81%.

[Sean Pendergast]

Ah, same with mine.

[Seth Payne]

That's gonna hurt me on my trade in, isn't it?

[Sean Pendergast]

But that's pretty good because you have a 12, I have a 15. And yet I have a 13.

[Seth Payne]

I have three. I'm not a peasant.

[Sean Pendergast]

Oh, sorry. Excuse me. Okay, you have a 13, I have a 15. We're both at 81%.

[Seth Payne]

So I got a notification that one of my apps isn't gonna be able to work with the iPhone 13 anymore. So I gotta, yeah, I'm gonna have to upgrade here at some point.

[Sean Pendergast]

That's the worst I hold on to. Look, growing up, we had the same box TV in our living room for literally like 40 years. And so that trickled down to me. I have a nine year old car, I have this phone. My laptop I'm working off of right now is who knows how many years. Same idea. It's like too old. I can't update certain things on it. I hold on to everything until it stops working and then I'll replace it.

[Seth Payne]

It's the one, you know what, honestly, where people tell you about there's a difference between getting rich and stay. And they're not always the same skill set. The. If you ever like start to worry that you're, you know, you're just being too consumeristic or anything, but you also want to be rich, go through River Oaks every now and then and see some of the people in there that are driving like a really well kept up 25 year old Mercedes. You know, they don't just, they're not just buying a new car every year or anything. And they'll, they'll buy nice things, but they don't, they don't buy things just to buy things.

[Sean Pendergast]

Exactly.

[Seth Payne]

You know that there's a certain, there's a certain level of restraint.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, that's what Jeff Bezos has said. That's the worst investment is a new car. He has driven. I don't know about now, but he used to drive like a 25 year old car.

[Seth Payne]

I've had dicey experience with that because I usually try to do the, the first car I ever bought my stepfather, after I got my signing bonus in the NFL, he, he gave me the advice of, you know, buying a slightly used car as your best bang for your buck and I did. But the problem is every time I buy a lightly used car and it's an awesome deal and everything in the carfax checks out and all of that, there's just that one little thing that pops up that you're like, ah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have this issue with a brand new car. Or at least if I did, I would have known it and seen when it happened and everything. And I'm just never as comfortable as when I know I'm paying a premium for a brand new car but that I like. I feel like any of the issues that it has are my issues that I've either contributed to or I'm aware of them. I don't like being, I don't like having it sprung on me with a, you know, with a used car.

[Sean Pendergast]

That's a good point. That is the nice perk of a new car. You don't have to worry about all these issues. I got plenty of stories of that coming up. Who will be the Texans breakout player of the year? We'll get to that. Next Payne and Pendergast.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Seth Payne]

It only happens every four years and this time it's here. The biggest tournament in the world. Stadiums shaking, flags waving. This is history and you want to be there. But real life can make it tough. Work, busy schedules and the price. That's where Priceline comes in. Priceline has millions of deals on flights, hotels and rental cars so you can go see it live. So find a great deal and make the trip happen.

[Sean Pendergast]

Rally the crew.

[Seth Payne]

Go see the game live. Turn your dream trip trip into reality. Book now with Priceline. Life can feel overwhelming, but you don't have to go through it alone. On my podcast from the Heart with Rachel Braethan, I share openly and vulnerably

[Sean Pendergast]

about everything life brings us and what we can learn by living with our hearts a little bit more Open Every Friday, a new episode brings you a

[Seth Payne]

new story with topics on self care, motherhood, healing and more. You are enough just the way you are. This podcast is a reminder of that. Follow and listen to from the Heart with Rachel Brathan wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Seth Payne]

Never know how.

[Sean Pendergast]

Who will be the Texans breakout player this year? It's Payne and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow, in for Sean alongside Seth Payne, you can always text the show 713-572-4-610 or get to us in the YouTube and Twitch chats as well. Couple texts that did come in that. That made me laugh because we were talking about Depends last segment and. Hold on, let me find them, because Depends undergarments. Yes, that's right. Now I just lost them. I had them pulled up here. We have had so many enough texts come in. Oh, here it is. Coming up on next week's Pain and Pender Gas, Seth learns what a UTI is.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I'm sitting in my own filth for hours, I'm not gonna test the limits of dependence. Remember the astronaut woman that was charged with the murder or attempted murder of her husband?

[Sean Pendergast]

No.

[Seth Payne]

I don't know. She drove. I want to say she drove from Texas to Florida in one shot.

[Sean Pendergast]

Wow.

[Seth Payne]

And she wore Depends or she wore adult undergarments. I don't want to get sued by dependence. That was part of how she was able to do it and make it like she made an improbable, improbably quick trip to Florida and back.

[Sean Pendergast]

That's wild. And then somebody else, you know, when I mentioned that people wear underwear for Times Square on New Year's Eve, somebody said, yeah, that sounds like a great idea. Until you meet a girl on New Year's Eve, take her home, and she has to watch you remove your diaper.

[Seth Payne]

Hey. Nothing. Yeah, nothing to see here. Yeah. Taking off your Depends. That's a rough one. Yeah. So I don't know. Well, I get a what if? I. I don't want to talk about it. Go buy some Depends and some jock itch cream, too. At the same time. Yeah.

[Ben]

Lovely.

[Sean Pendergast]

Who will be the.

[Seth Payne]

That's right. It was Colleen. She. Lisa Nowak or Novak. She drove 900 miles to attack her ex's girlfriend.

[Sean Pendergast]

Oh, my gosh.

[Seth Payne]

That was in 2007. That was forever ago.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

She drove from Houston, Texas, to Orlando, Florida, to confront the woman who'd won the affections of an astronaut then Novak had been involved with. Instead of having the conversation she claimed she wanted, Novak was arrested for attacking the other woman. So that was. Yeah. She wore diapers on her 900 mile drive in order to avoid bathroom breaks.

[Sean Pendergast]

Oh, man. Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

You were just a young lad back then.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

You didn't know the way that worked, the way things really worked in adult relationships.

[Sean Pendergast]

That's right. Yeah, I recall that.

[Seth Payne]

So to tell all kids, at some point, there's going to be. There's gonna be somebody in your Life that makes you so angry that you drive 900 miles wearing depends to attack them. That's. That's a. That. That's. That's how much emotional be involved here.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, that's right. Kids. One day you'll have to throw on some Depends too, in your relationship. And somebody said, how is your phone bill $41 a month with an old iPhone? That's how. Who will be the Texans breakout player this year? So one a month. Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

All right, we'll talk about this during the break.

[Sean Pendergast]

I honestly don't know how it's that low, but it is, and I appreciate it.

[Seth Payne]

You're like. Like you're in some, like, little plan that they forgot about or something, probably, and you're just waiting to. I lived in a house once that, like, it was a new house, and they. The tax appraiser hadn't caught on to it yet for some reason, for like, six years. I was paying like 200 a year in property taxes because it was classified as an empty. Empty lot. It was. It wasn't bad. Yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

That's what you're on right now. You've. You've. Verizon or whoever you're with just hasn't discovered it.

[Sean Pendergast]

That's right.

[Seth Payne]

Let's keep talking about it on the radio right this moment.

[Sean Pendergast]

Good thing these mics aren't on. Keep this a little secret. Who will be the Texans breakout player this year? ESPN had an article, Ben Solak, who's referenced frequently, he did an article of the breakout player for each team, and he went with Kalen Bullock, who I think a lot of people took exception with. Like, I don't know. Does that really fit the criteria?

[Seth Payne]

I feel like he's already broken out. He was already in a. He made the Pro bowl last year. And I do think a lot of people. A lot of people already talk about him like he's one of the best safeties in the league. And I. It feels a little bit like when you had all these NBA people saying, like, hey, you heard it from me first. Amen. Thompson's a pretty good player. And you're looking around like every single person was, like, saying, hey, just so you guys know ball knowers like me, I'll tell you, Amin, Thompson's a pretty good player. Yeah. Like, when enough people are saying, like, hey, watch out for this guy. The guy's already been watched out for. So I think that's where Kaleb Bullock is. I think for me, the breakout player, the biggest, intriguing breakout player is Jaden Higgins. And I think Jaden Higgins kind of toiled in anonymity last year because of the, you know, because of the Texans offense and the issues that they were having because he wasn't a first round pick. I think not as many people noticed that he did some good things as a rookie wide receiver and also because we've been like in recent, in the last decade we've had more just it's been more common for rookie wide receivers to really burst onto the scene. And I'm not saying he's going to be the next Jamar Chase or anything, but I think he's going to become a much more bonafide number two wide receiver. And like so breakout doesn't have to mean that he becomes one of the best wide receivers in the league, but it's going to be one that when we're looking at preseason wide receiver room rankings it's, that's going to be much more of an asset going into the 2027 season.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, for sure. They need to. That's been the other thing I've been on. We talked earlier about Keelan Rutledge and that big question. Well the other one of course that I keep repeating on these airwaves over the last few months is the wide receiver position. I mean we talked about it Seth, you and I earlier this week of the questions that remain in that wide receiver room. I think it was yesterday behind Nico Collins and so they need one of those guys, Higgins, Noel, Whoever to try to break out this year and add more depth to that wide receiver position. So hopefully so honestly and credit to John Lopez and Reggie, they on in the Loop. They they've turned me on to it and I've always kind of liked him. This might be quite a reach but I am on the Foster Moreau hype train and I don't know if that would even count as a breakout but I think he could play a big role in this offense and even if it's not the sexy flashy stuff, I think he could be a play an important part and have a good year for this team. I don't know if he qualifies as a breakout, but maybe that's more of like an underrated player but I'm on the Foster Moreau train.

[Seth Payne]

Well remember Cassario kind of just casually said when he was in interview I think he might have been with John and Mark. It said that, you know, for a stretch before he got cancer, Foster Moreau was one of the best tight ends in the league. And I don't, I don't really Remember that being, you know, something a lot of people were talking about. And I think where Casserole it would be more. It's not because of the receiving production. It's the fact that he is a capable blocker and the 1, 2 combo in terms of just looking for versatility and being able to run multiple different styles of offense while just having a tight end on the field, I think that's probably what, what most intrigued Nick Casario. But I remember, yeah, like when he said that I went back through him like, yeah, you never had a breakout year as a receiver or anything. His career high is 420 yards receiving. I think he could be a breakout player. If. If the Texans are leaning into multiple tight end sets a lot and more frequently, like a lot of other teams seem to be planning and doing and it actually ends up working, then he's not going to get a whole lot of publicity for it. But he 100% is the guy that they were missing in terms of just being able to. When you want to be out there. And instead of having six offensive linemen, have a tight end in place of Juice Scruggs so you can actually run the ball, but also have a viable wide receiver, viable receiving threat at tight end instead of an offensive lineman. That's a, that's a big, big difference from one year to the next.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, breakout probably is too strong, maybe like underappreciated by the time the season goes on and we look back, he's a under.

[Seth Payne]

You know what he is, he's an underrated breakout player. Like it could potentially break out into that. Those lists of most underappreciated players. So his breakout would be okay. He starts making the, the underrated lists.

[Commercial Announcer]

Right.

[Seth Payne]

And then, and then the dream is that you get talked about being underrated so much that you actually become appropriately rated.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yes, of course, somebody said, we mentioned Higgins. Somebody said breakout player will be Jalen Noel in the slot. That speed will be deadly. How high are you on him progressing year one to year two?

[Seth Payne]

I think the fun thing, the really fun thing to think about is, all right, A, if Jaden Higgins comes along and B, if Tank Dell ends up being healthy and being the same guy, now all of a sudden you've got a lot of speed on the outside that really opens things up underneath. And yeah, Jalen Noel could become that, that lovable slot receiver that's just always there at the sticks or just turning up field and getting run after the catch. The thing that's underrated about him, I think is just how strong he is and his ability to break tackles as a smaller guy, if you actually give him some space to work with underneath, that could turn into some really electrifying runs afterwards if teams are so focused on the outside wide receivers. And it's very, very possible. But it's like everything else on the offense right now. There's this huge house of cards that like, hey, all you need for CJ to look like a better quarterback is better offensive line play, better tight end play, more health at running back, and for your wide receivers to stay healthy. That's all you need. And then CJ Will be just fine. Yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, exactly. That's all.

[Seth Payne]

You just need all those things to come together.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah. By the way, I don't know if you had mentioned this earlier, but Ben Solak did acknowledge that, you know, while, while Bullock was his, his pick, he did acknowledge the Pro bowl appearance. And what he said in his defense was I don't know how many NFL fans would list him, you know, with the names of the stars of the Texans defense, like a Will Anderson Jr. Like a stingley, so on and so forth. And he was saying that he believes he could put himself into the national spotlight more so here over the next year. So that's why he chose him specifically as the breakout player for the Texans.

[Seth Payne]

Well, yeah, And I think the other thing too is that there's times last year because of, because of injuries at the other safety position, I don't think they were able to use Kalen Bullock as creatively, I think, as they'd like to be able to just really take advantage of his range and his ability to just be all over the place. So with Reed Blankenship now, they'll, they can mess with those guys a little bit more. And you know, Caleb Bullock can go down and play in the box. He can do. They can be more versatile on defense without getting overly complicated or anything. It just, it frees, it frees them up. If he's got a steady, solid veteran playing next to him or out there on the field with him at that other safety position, it really frees them up. To make the most of his range and his ability to cover just large

[Sean Pendergast]

swaths of real estate, you continue to let us know who you believe will be that breakout player for the Texans. Texans this year. 713-572-4610 on the text line. Coming up, we're bringing it back, the pain index. How much would these things hurt if they happen here in the Houston sports scene? We'll do that next. Pain and Pendergast. It's time to bring back the Seth Payne Index. Here on Payne and Pendergast, I'm Luke Morrow, in for Sean alongside Seth Payne. You can always text the show 713-572-4610 or get to us on the Twitch and YouTube chats as well. When previous time when we had worked together, I just came up with the idea of let's put a bunch of kind of did on the fly. Let's put a bunch of topics together, get Seth's thoughts on it. And with the help of Reggie, we changed the name to the pain Index. It's a pun. Seth Payne. And the idea is I give you a topic on a scale of 1 to 10, you label it as how much it would hurt.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, I'm telling the doctor. What's my level of pain. That's right. I'm being honest about it. I'm not just trying to score a bunch of opioids. Yes.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, it's as the same.

[Seth Payne]

Let's pretend. Let's pretend I don't have an opioid addiction.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yes.

[Seth Payne]

As we go through this exercise.

[Sean Pendergast]

Right. Yes. Let's pretend Astros don't add any pitching at the trade deadline. On the scale of 1 to 10, how much pain would that cause?

[Seth Payne]

Oh, you know what? I feel like Dana Brown needs to earn the right to, to create actual pain. I think my expectations of what this team and what they're going to do are, Are so low right now, and I, I'm a victim of the moment because of this miserable series they just had. But I don't. I feel like that's the most obvious thing they have to address if you actually want to have any chance in a, in a playoff series, is that you just can't have these vast, vast wastelands in your starting pitching spots. And yet I also don't know exactly what, like, I'm torn. I'm ambivalent. Because to actually get somebody who's going to make a difference, I don't know, you have the prospects or I have the appetite for giving up for those prospects. Giving up those prospects. So they get. The Astros can only hurt me so much right now because I'm detached somewhat. I'm going to say that would. That'd be a seven. That'd be a seven on the pain scale.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah. And I think part of it for me, too, as you've mentioned throughout the morning, is just the idea, once again, of settling for these guys coming back from injuries. And as a fan, that would really. That would be not demoralizing, but that would be a tough pill to swallow. Where that's the big move is Javier and McCullers finally coming back and seeing if they could do anything. It's, it's a little deflating.

[Seth Payne]

It's really, it's just I, we've gone from the golden era to the era of just expecting half rations. I'm just like, all right, yeah, I know you're not going to do anything all that big or impressive or whatever, but yeah, cool, just show me what you got.

[Sean Pendergast]

It's depressing. Next on the pain index, say Imai Ops out.

[Seth Payne]

Negative 3.

[Sean Pendergast]

He opts out at the end of the season.

[Seth Payne]

Negative 3. Elation in this. So 10 would be the most painful. Yes, this is the problem. This is the problem problem. This is actually going to be a 9 or a 10 if he opts out because it means that he ended up figuring things out in the second half of the season was really awesome, then it's going to be a 9 or a 10. And because so like as of right now, if he could somehow miraculously opt out and be like, oh, cool, thank you. I will pack your bags. I'll find out what time you prefer to eat dinner. I'll give you a sticky baseball like they throw in Japan. I'll give you a nice little carrot back of everything you need to feel comfortable in your next spot. But I wouldn't worry about it at all. But if he opts out, it's going to be because he was really, really impressive in the second half of the season.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, it's kind of that double edged sword of either he's going to continue to stink and you're stuck with him, or like you said, he pitches well, hops out and it's like, oh well, there he goes and you might not get anything in the meantime. This might be a team that if they do make it to the playoffs, don't go far enough. And so it's, it's kind of a lose lose either way.

[Seth Payne]

Is the, is the bloom off the rose officially with the Astro pitching development to where they were just for so long regarded as man that there's two teams you want to go to if you're a young pitcher, the Rays and the Astros, because they're going to get the absolute like they're going to teach you how to pitch and with the Rays they'll trade you off to a good team at some point and the Astros were already good. So of course that's, that's a Shangri la. But man, my Level of confidence that I used to have when they would bring in any random veteran pitcher was so high. And now it just does not feel that way anymore for sure.

[Sean Pendergast]

I mean, two years ago you had Kikuchi come over and turn things around. Even last year you could point to like Jason Alexander. But this year Alexander went back, he turned back into a pumpkin. And as we mentioned earlier, I mean they kind of operate like that, relying on that, where they bring in these six pitchers on bargain deals thinking like, yeah, we'll get the most out of them. And right now, three of them aren't even in the big leagues. They've combined for a nearly six era. Lambert's the only example of somebody that they did get to turn.

[Seth Payne]

I think a lot of times when they get that initial bump when they first show up, it's got a lot more to do with pitching selection and all of that stuff that's still relevant, but they don't. The sum total of the people they have working in the pitchers in the organization is that you're probably never going to replace a guy like Brent Strom. That worked like Brent Strom was the perfect guy because he has. As an older guy he had all this experience, but he also had an appreciation for the analytics and he understood it and he used it. And just the sum total of everything they were doing from an old school baseball standpoint on into the space age stuff, it was just, it, it was, it was a city on a hill, you know, And I just don't think they have that reputation anymore.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, no, I don't think so either, unfortunately. Next up on the pain index, you brought this up. I think this is a really fascinating thought. You brought this up earlier this week. If the Texans run game is solid, and we can all define that in different ways, but just say middle of the road in the NFL, it's improved from last year. It's not a huge issue. It's solid. Say the run game is solid, but the offense still struggles. That doesn't solve all their problems offensively. On a scale of 1 to 10, how much pain would that cause?

[Seth Payne]

That's all right. This is a tough one. Gonna do this in two different sets. Seth, the Texans fan, that's a 10 on the pain scale. That's, that's because that means like, all right, that means CJ's. CJ doesn't have excuses anymore. You know, the big excuse or explanation that I myself and others have been running with is, man, he's never genuinely had just even a solid rushing attack. Then that Includes the Joe Mixon year. They just didn't have a solid rushing attack, a consistent rushing attack, and it's hard for any quarterback to operate in that environment. If he gets that rushing attack this year and he's still not performing up to the level that we think he's capable of, it's going to be miserable. And yet the sports radio guy in me knows that that January through May would be. That would be a golden era of. People hate listening to us as we talked about this incredible, hopefully still incredible class of quarterbacks or potential. Potential free agent signings or trades or whatever. But I know I would grow to hate that, too, because we'd be talking about the same thing every single day. So I would still. Even though I'd be financially benefiting from it, I would still be a 10 on the actual emotional and pain index. I'd be so. I'd be so frustrated and sick of talking about it for four straight months that I'd be. I'd be miserable. There's no. There's no. There's no positive way to slice this. It's. If C.J. stroud is not the guy that you're hoping he would be, despite everything else on the offense being improved, you got to go out and find a new quarterback at that point, and you can. That's. That's fraught with peril, as we know.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. It's sort of like the movie Hall Pass. If this scenario were to play out. It's almost like the movie Hall Pass where all married men, or most. I won't speak for everyone. Most married men think that it's their wives. Like, oh, if I wasn't married, I'd be hooking up with all these supermodels out there. And then when you remove that excuse, like in Hall Pass, where it's like, all right, you have a week. Go do whatever you want. And they find out like, oh, actually, no one's interested in me. Then there's no more excuses to make. Like, it's just, ah, you're not the. The killer you think you are.

[Seth Payne]

It's. Yeah, yeah, I go through that. Just even when. When I'm. When my wife's out of town, it's like, I don't know. I have all these grand plans. Not. Not getting into anything, you know, bad or out like, that I wouldn't normally be allowed to do, but just have the.

[Ben]

The.

[Seth Payne]

The freedom to do whatever I want, whenever I want without him to check in with anybody. I end up doing the Exact same thing I always do.

[Sean Pendergast]

Right.

[Seth Payne]

It's a good reminder, like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't have to start thinking that things are so awesome if we're out there and single and living this life.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, it's the classic like, ooh, we have a free night away from the kids and then you're still in bed at like 9pm Anyways, you know, like Next on the pain index, Fred Van Vliet isn't ready for opening night. Let's say he misses the start of the season, however long that might be. He's not ready for a month to whatever he did say recently his knee exploded on the pain index. How much would that hurt?

[Seth Payne]

All right. Now this is the big one for this. If, if that's the case and Raphael Stone hasn't done a damn thing about it other than hoping to cobble together guys to pass and shoot alongside Marcus Smart this year, that'd be a 10. That, that would be really, really rough because everything if the, if the Rockets don't do anything aggressive this off season, then they've been 100% just honest in their belief that, hey, with Fred Van Vliet coming back, everybody's going to be, it's just going to be a much different operation and then you don't have a Fred Van Vliet and you haven't done anything about it at all. That would be a 10.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, yeah, I'd be with you. I am concerned from that audio from Van Vliet. And then lastly, maybe most importantly on the pain index, say you bring home a woman on a one night stand. Just a general person, middle aged person, not too old. Of course you bring home a woman on a one night stand and she has to take off her depends. Oh, what is that on the pain index scale of 1 to 10?

[Seth Payne]

That's inversely proportional to what she is on the looks scale. So it's not directly proportional but it's not like a one to one ratio but it's inversely. So if she's a 10, it's like a five on the pain scale. If she's a one, then it's a 10 on the pain scale because that's then you really got to start evaluating what you're even doing with your life while your wife's out of town. So yeah, just told your radio co host that all you do is sit on the couch and watch sports when your wife's out of town. And then all of a sudden I find myself with a one who's stripping off her Depends speaking to me in a raspy voice almost. And then burns her to. Burns her to pens with a cigar she's smoking. That's tough, man. That's a rough one. By the way, old, distorted looking, faded out, tattoos from the 80s on her. On her biceps.

[Sean Pendergast]

Oh my gosh. She sounds like the woman from Goonies. By the way, I didn't say you specifically. I said in general. So I'm not.

[Seth Payne]

Oh, okay. Well, I go first person on this stuff.

[Sean Pendergast]

I wasn't trying to put you in this awkward position.

[Seth Payne]

That'd be the tough thing too is again, then you get. You confess to your wife about it and then what's worse isn't the confession but like actually showing the picture. It's like, yeah, this is. This is the. This is the woman that I chose to throw everything away for.

[Sean Pendergast]

Right.

[Seth Payne]

What's worse, decided to risk it all for.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, it's worse for the woman where she's like, for the Depends lady. Are you kidding me?

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

Oh, my gosh. Coming up, one. That's the pain index. I'm still working on the pain down. Coming up, 1. Professional Sports League continues to embarrass itself. We'll talk about that next. Payne and Pender Guess.

[Seth Payne]

Hey, it's Jen Hatmaker. Here's what I've learned in midlife. Joy isn't the reward you earn after all the work is done. Joy is the work. That's what this new series on for the Love is all about. The sacred yes. It's choosing delight, rest and pleasure on purpose. Because saying yes to yourself, that's the thing that finally lets you fill your table with everybody else. Come find your sacred yes with me. Follow and listen to for the Love. Wherever you get your podcasts, my day

[Sean Pendergast]

kicks off with a refreshing Celsius energy drink.

[Seth Payne]

Then straight to the gym, pre K

[Sean Pendergast]

pickup back home to meal prep.

[Seth Payne]

Time for my fire station shift.

[Sean Pendergast]

One more Celsius. Gotta keep the lights on when the three alarm hits.

[Seth Payne]

I'm ready. Celsius Live fit. Go grab a cold refreshing Celsius at

[Sean Pendergast]

your local retailer or locate [e-mail]

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[Seth Payne]

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[Sean Pendergast]

professional sports league that just continues to embarrass itself and we got to talk about it here on Paine and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow in for Sean Alongside Seth Payne. 713-572-4610 is the text line. You also can get to us in YouTube and Twitch as well. So I mean this has been going on for a while really since she entered the league. It's the whole Caitlin Clark thing in the wnba.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I like. Honestly, I don't try to keep up with whichever latest officiating controversy or anything there is about it. It's just, just it. Honestly, it's, it's the level of. It's. I don't know if I've ever seen a dynamic like this where somebody comes in a league and is a huge deal and brings extra eyeballs and there's just such a. There's just such a like either a hatred for or whatever it might be from the players in the league itself. Again, even if you go back to the old school NFL where rookies were bums and everything, it's still, it's hard to make a direct comparison to that. But I don't think in any era of sports it's been like this in any league, men's or women's. But the latest is that that the All Star Voting comes out, and Caitlin Clark is the 11th ranked point guard in the all Star voting and. Or excuse me, by the players. The players ranked her 11th. She's first and second in the fan and the media voting.

[Ben]

Right.

[Seth Payne]

But. But she's 11th when it comes to the player voting, which means that a lot of players just flat out left her off the ballot, too. Like, they just didn't even try to say she was as good as anybody else. And like, look, I'm not a WNBA expert. Candace Parker is.

[Sean Pendergast]

This is.

[Seth Payne]

This is what. Candace Parker. Her message for people that for the players who ranked Caitlin Clark the 11th best guard.

[Sean Pendergast]

I wholeheartedly believe that there needs to be some rules with the WNBA players because this is getting out of hand. Caitlyn Clark voted 11th best guard by WNBA players is.

[Seth Payne]

That's crazy.

[Sean Pendergast]

I think people need to look at themselves in the mirror and realize, like,

[Oregon Lottery Announcer]

man, you got some.

[Sean Pendergast]

You got some insecurities.

[Seth Payne]

If you sitting down and putting Caitlyn

[Sean Pendergast]

Clark as the 11th best guard. Like, y'. All. Y' all need to go to a therapist and figure out what childhood issues you have.

[Seth Payne]

Which is like, look, I'll start voting with the. The players is always a little bit dicey because people do have their personal league allegiances and everything, but I feel like even if you're, Even if you hate somebody, you got to acknowledge that. All right? Yeah. But they're okay. I'm going to. I'm going to knock him down to third instead of second or whatever on the ballot. Like, to. Just, to have just that big a gap. I don't think you need to. You don't need to. You don't need to break down the film or anything to realize, okay, boy, this is a. This is a level of vitriol that's just different than we've seen in other sports.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, it's pathetic. And if you can't take your league seriously, then I can't take it seriously. To Put Caitlin Clark 11th is a joke from those players. They put her ninth last year, so they got even worse this year. But that happened last year, too, where the players voted her ninth. And to your point, like, the fans and the media both put her at the top of the ballot. The players don't. It's. It's really embarrassing for the wnba, or at least it should be. There's too many people that still. I like, I was happy to hear that audio because there's still too many people in the WNBA world that don't really speak out on it. And I know he's not in the WNBA world. But we had that ridiculous piece of audio last week from Emmanuel Ocho of like the WNBA should just move on without Caitlin Clark. Like what are we doing here?

[Seth Payne]

It's right. He acted like that was a one time injection of energy and viewership and that, yeah, now they're, now they've been put over. Then everything will be just fine with no Caitlin Clark just because now they're at it. Whereas meanwhile, no, like the top ranked games are all Indiana games. And like the viewership that spiked when, when she's injured, it just plummets. All actual evidence is to the contrary of what Acho said.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, last I saw, ratings are 50% higher for Caitlin Clark games compared to the rest of the wnba. So it's still a big difference. I was from this season. And yeah, they move their games when she's on the road, teams sometimes will have to move their games to larger stadiums to sell enough tickets. She's their Michael Jordan. And there's, it's this ridiculous idea of thinking that like, like get rid of Michael Jordan when he was the one that really helped. It's the high tide raises all boats. Like the reason why these players are making more money now. They should be bowing down and thanking Caitlin Clark because it's because of her. And yet they have this jealousy and they get physical with her on the court. They don't vote for her in the All Star Game. It's, it's really pretty sad where obviously you're not going to be thanking your competitor, but if we're being honest, like I said, she's a big reason why they have a lot of the perks that they now have from the last 12 for the last calendar year.

[Seth Payne]

The other, the other big petty thing that I've been enjoying this week is the fallout from the US men's national team losing in the round of 16 because it feels like Landon Donovan has been on a personal mission to tear down Christian Pulisic. Pulisic. Pulisic. And like, this is just one of, this is one of many clips that I've seen from Landon and various former other soccer players talking about Polish Pulisic.

[Sean Pendergast]

This was a game where you needed him to go, give me the ball. I'm gonna stick it in the back of the net. It's two, two. Let's go. And he just didn't. And he wasn't even close to it. And in fact, we don't know. You know, there's reporting that he asked to get subbed out of the game, I can't confirm that. So I don't. I don't know if that's true or not. The reality is, Tim, he came out of a World cup knockout game at home with his leg still intact. I'm saying this to you, Tim, and you know it, because you played with me. You would have had to have drag me off the field, and I would have punched the doctor in the face and said, you're not taking me off the field. Put whatever you need to put in me, and I'm staying on the field. I told you this before. I never shared this publicly until a few months ago. I played with a torn hamstring against Ghana after the Algeria game and nobody knew about it. I didn't have to tell anyone. It was no, no drama around it. I just did it.

[Ben]

And I just.

[Sean Pendergast]

I could not believe that he didn't stand. Now, if we wake up tomorrow and he broke his leg and snapped and whatever, totally fine.

[Seth Payne]

So he was talking to Tim Howard there also. And those two were both kind of dishing on Pulisic and what his reputation is and how the, you know, I think it was Tim Howard that was saying that people, you know, like people in his. His entourage, don't necessarily treat other people around soccer all that well. That, like, there's just a whole bunch of. There. There's a whole bunch of griping with these guys about Pulisic, that there's a other part of me as a non soccer fan who's also like, all right, I get that and all, but it's not like you guys are. Are standing from a pulpit from where you had, you know, won a World cup or something. And there was this. There was this piece that was on Paramount last year. So this is in advance of any of the latest controversy or anything, but Pulisic and Timothy Weah here are talking about some of these former players who are now commentators and what frauds they are.

[Sean Pendergast]

I'd say the most annoying thing, and for me, the biggest cop out of all time, is when especially, you know, all pundits want to say, you know, they didn't want it, they didn't have the heart. You know, back in our day, we would fight and we would die on that field.

[Seth Payne]

I think those guys are chasing Czechs. And for me, I just feel like they're really evil, honestly, because they've been players and they know what it's like

[Sean Pendergast]

when you're getting bashed. And those are the same guys that'll turn around and shake your hand and try to Be friendly with you. At the end of the day, don't

[Seth Payne]

get me wrong, I respect all of them. I mean, there were players that I looked up to, but quite frankly, the guys before us didn't win anything either. They didn't win anything. Who's Cat Ear? Who's Cat Ear? U.S. men's National Team or the WNBA? I feel like. I feel like the U.S. men's national team is a catty damn place, man. These guys just love sniping at each other.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, seems to be. I think I would say the WNBA is worse, but I do like that clip from Ballistic there and that, that, that mic drop at the.

[Seth Payne]

Well, that was way at the end. That was way of. That said that he said that those guys are evil and also said you guys never won anything.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, Yeah. I think the WNBA is worse because of just how undeniable it is that Caitlin Clark is so good and they're trying to, like, ignore that fact and just act like she's some average end of the bench player. I think the discrepancy and like the reality and their fantasy world is so much larger. Where in soccer, I don't have that same feeling of like, these people are just out of their minds.

[Commercial Announcer]

Right, right.

[Seth Payne]

Well, no, that's the whole thing about the Caitlin Clark stuff.

[Sean Pendergast]

It's.

[Seth Payne]

Okay. Cool. If you want to get into debate about whether she's better than this player or that player, whatever, I'd cool. Whatever. That's sports. It's the, it's the ranking. I mean, again, just imagine any young NBA star who had that kind of impact on the NBA then getting voted 2 or 3 spots or getting voted 1, but 9 or 10 or 11 spots lower than they should in the All Star voting. It just, I can't think of any examples like that where people have just wholesale said, oh, no, not only do we not like her, but we're just going to go ahead and act like she doesn't exist at all and that she's just a bum of a basketball player.

[Ben]

Right.

[Sean Pendergast]

And to add more context to it, she is having currently the best combined points and assists per game average in WNBA history. She is fourth in points per game in the league, second in the league in assists. And I guess their offense is also like on pace to set records and she's obviously leading the way. So it's, it's just like. It's not debatable with the soccer stuff. I love the back and forth, but I do tend to agree with the guys with like Landon Donovan where it's that old school, maybe, like cavemanish thought, but it's a big game. Like, yeah, you know, you shouldn't want to come off the field. You got to leave it all out there. And Pulisic did not have a World Cup, a good World cup, especially when they lost to Belgium. Him, where it seemed just like, yeah, like, I. I don't know if he had a lingering injury, but just wasn't into it. And if you're going to do commercials and if you're going to be called Captain America, then you can't be immune to the criticism that comes when you don't perform right well.

[Seth Payne]

And then, especially with Pulisic, it sounds like there's a lot more to it and that he's got a reputation and that this is just kind of the fact that, like, there I. The. The. Your record matters. Like your, Your previous record in terms of how you operate matters. When it comes to a situation like that where if he had to pull himself from a game, there are a lot of other players that might have done that. But people are like, well, I know this guy, and he's not a diva and he's not a, you know, he's. He's tough and all of that, where you wouldn't question it. It felt like people in soccer, especially when they. When they know that it's Pulisic that's doing it. It's. It's. It felt to me from the outside looking in, like there was a whole lot of, like, yeah, well, what'd you expect? It's Pulisic. This is the guy that you're trying to rally around, and nobody else actually feels that way about him.

[Sean Pendergast]

By the way, I did just see this. A group of 11 lawmakers sent an angry letter to the WNBA asking big questions and demanding accountability for, quote, multiple attacks on star Caitlin Clark.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, yeah. I don't. Listen, this is a. I have no. I have no idea, like, whether those Republicans or Democrats is a genuine bipartisan take by me. I don't like it when politicians get involved in sports, largely just because it's almost always. It's just pure grandstanding. It's a lot of times they don't even have any, like, legal authority to do anything about it. Like what? And it's not just this specific situation. It's anything else. That's when I get annoyed. I annoy. I get annoyed when interlopers come into.

[Ben]

To.

[Seth Payne]

To my world, and this isn't even my world, but just in general. The. Into the sports world in general, because it doesn't it? Never. It usually doesn't feel like anything's actually going to get done other than get the politicians names out there.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, yeah, I'm with you on that. And yeah, stay out of it. The Caitlin Clark thing though, it reminds me of the Chris Rock bit where he would do a bit in the 90s, like the difference between men and women. And this is all for comedy purposes. And women will, or men will look at one of their friends who has like a great wife, let's say. And he'll say, man, I wish I could have a woman like that. But women will look at their friend who have a great husband and say I want that instead of something like that. Like I want that guy right there. Not a, not a carbon copy. But anyways, it might be that jealousy that's driving all this Caitlin Clark nonsense in the wnba. So on the text line, this has been actually a very popular topic. All sorts of comments coming in, somebody saying it's hard to keep up with all the text coming in, but somebody saying Caitlin Clark, Asia Wilson is the Michael Jordan. Caitlin Clark is not the best guard in the league. Yada, yada yada. If you want to debate skill, that's one thing. But I don't think we can debate impact and the difference in the league once Caitlin Clark came into the wnba, I think is undebatable. And you could see just the impact in terms of as we already referenced the ratings.

[Seth Payne]

Right, right.

[Sean Pendergast]

Ticket sales for their games.

[Seth Payne]

You know, that's. And that's the whole thing. That's why I said I don't care if you're having a debate about Asia Wilson versus Caitlin Clark. Like, that's just, it's nothing. Where in your debate is no, Asia Wilson is actually better than Caitlin Clark and Caitlin Clark is actually, actually the 11th best guard in the league. Like that's, that's where the, it's freakish, the extreme that people, people don't get into debate about, okay, best all time player. Is it LeBron or Michael? No, it's not LeBron. It's a, it's Michael. And LeBron is actually the 25th best player all time. It's just, there's just, it's so clearly emotionally fueled if players themselves are going to the point where they're leaving Caitlin Clark entirely off the docket. It's just weird. It's really, really weird. Yeah. And then you add in the dynamic of. Then there's, there's like people turning into a race issue and then you get, you can't have a Conversation about it with somebody jumping in from some direction from. From somewhere completely outside your. What you're actually talking about.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah. I mean, I would compare. This might be a bad analogy, but I would compare it to like Avatar is the highest grossing movie of all time. I saw that movie in theaters. I thought it stunk. I hate the Avatars. But it's the most successful in. At least in that sense, in that statistic. It's the most successful movie that people go. They've made multiple people like it, it's popular. I don't think it's the best movie ever made. So even if we want to debate whether Caitlin Clark is the best guard or not, a like Seth just said, she's not the 11th. That's too large of a gap. The media and the fans disagree. But also she's been the most like, successful player for the wnba. Even if you don't think she's the best, she's been the most marketable for the league for one reason or another.

[Seth Payne]

Which is the. I guess the. The other thing, the normal trajectory would be that Caitlin Clark comes in in the first two years, is beloved, and then people really start hating her. She's been way more polarizing right from the get go. Right. Was it. Or was it. Did she ever. Rookie season, was it relatively smooth in terms of all this stuff and then.

[Sean Pendergast]

No, I think it's kind of started right away. I mean, it kind of went back even to college. She was a little polarizing because of her rivalry like with Angel Reese at the time and LSU and.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

So, you know, there was that rivalry which you could compare it to like Magic Johnson and Larry Bird and they both went into the league at the same time and they really helped improve the NBA at the time, just like the WNBA now. And there was people on both sides. You had your Magic Johnson fans, you had your Larry Bird fans and similar. You have your Caitlin Clark fans, now you have your Angel Reese fans. And so it was just a natural rivalry.

[Seth Payne]

There was a. There's certain elements of it. The way that when it comes to these things where people are just jumping in from all facets of life to weigh in on it, and a lot of them aren't even sports fans. That's where it feels too much like the Tebow stuff, where you try to have a conversation about Tim Tebow and all of a sudden there's 9,900 people who aren't even sports fans who are going to tell you exactly why Tim Tebow's getting screwed over or whatever. You're like, oh, man, let's not turn this into a sociological debate. My God.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, I'm with you. Let's not forget the NBA. The WNBA should say never turned a profit, and I think still have not, but they're moving in that direction. So, you know, it's, it's had a large impact, her presence coming up. There was a ranking yesterday. I, you know, we're doing a lot of lists this time of year. I do want to get to this. Who are the best young stars in the NFL? And I was surprised with how this won listing went. We'll debate it next on Pain and Pendergast. Who are the best young stars currently in the NFL? We'll talk about it. Payne and Pendergast here. I'm Luke Morrow filling in for Sean alongside Seth. You can always text the show 713-572-4610. Get to us on the YouTube or Twitch chats. I had saw earlier, Bonnie Tyler's name was trending. I didn't look into why, but then I just saw on the YouTube chat, they mentioned it. Rest in peace to Bonnie Tyler, who passed away apparently at 75 today. And she had the number one hit in the 80s, total eclipse of the Heart, which.

[Seth Payne]

Oh, okay.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, that's who that is. And holding out for a hero. Oh,

[Seth Payne]

she's big in Footloose, huh?

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

Was that in Footloose, Ben? Yes, the original Footloose. Okay. How old was she?

[Sean Pendergast]

75. And I had no idea that she was Welsh. I just always assumed she was American. I didn't know. But yeah, she had some jams in the 80s. And total eclipse of the Heart, of course, gained additional popularity when it was used in old school. Right. And that guy is great in old school. The singer who does that in all the movies where he sings songs inappropriately, the Dan Band. That guy's pretty good.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, but he still lives. That's the real tragedy here.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He gets to continue to do the song, but unfortunately, Bonnie Tyler has passed away at 75. So there's the big news of the morning. This is the time of year for these ranks, rankings and lists, and CBS Sports put out one where they ranked the NFL's top 25 players aged 25 and under for the upcoming season. So who are the best 25 players in the NFL that are currently 25 and younger for this upcoming year? And there are some things that surprised me and stood out to me on this list. Now, of course, it's, you know, it's one person's opinion. I don't think. Or maybe it was a group of writers but what, whatever. It's one publications opinion. But when you look at the bottom of the the list. Hold on, I'm on the wrong end of the list. But Will Anderson Jr. Wound up number six on the list.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

And then ahead of him you have Jackson Smith and Jigba. Drake May is four, Panay Sewells three, Puka Nakua, Nakua is two and Bijan Robinson's one. So it's a good top, top part of the list.

[Seth Payne]

I'm. It was. It's hard to get too overly po'd that Will Anderson isn't higher on the list. I guess I just always say, hey man, it's been one year with that coordinator in that offense. For Drake maybe. But you're also, when you're. He had that incredible season he did. I'm cool with it for now. I'm kind of amazed that Penne Sewell is only 25 years old because he was drafted in 2021. I didn't remember he was that young when he got drafted. But the, the biggest one I was, I was surprised that Bijan Robinson was number one overall. And I get it. But I was a little bit surprised by that. The one that I was upset about was that Derek Singley is 16th and he's one of the two best players in his position. And but ahead of them, ahead of, ahead of Derek Stingley had Christian Gonzalez and Devon Witherspoon, which yeah, they're both really good. I would say Christian Gonzalez is the closest to Derek Stingley there. But I think it's, it's almost pretty much any cornerback ranking you look at right now. It's certain. And Derek Stingley at number one and two. So to have two, not just one, but two guys ahead of him in this ranking, I feel like he's getting dinged if anything because he's, because he's, because he's older than Christian Gonzalez or for whatever reason that he's not as much of the young and upcoming guy. He's just, he's an established, high quality player.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

You know, for me it was really honestly when I looked at this list, my biggest takeaway or surprise was what we had just mentioned in passing was Will Anderson Jr. 6 and you referenced Drake May, who's fourth on the list and that's fourth overall. Like I think, I think that's a little high. I know he just went to the super bowl, but he didn't play all that great in the playoffs for The Patriots. And I like Drake May, but like, I think Will Anderson is better at his position. I mean, we just went over the ESPN list where they ranked it him third overall in the entire league. Regardless of age. I think Will Anderson is higher on the list of defensive ends than Drake May is on quarterbacks.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, you know what, you're. You're exactly right though, too, because even with Jackson, Smith and Jigba, who had an incredible season last year, it was, it was that. It's one year so far. And like, I feel like Will Anderson almost gets dinged for playing at a really high level for multiple years. So. It does. If you're doing a list of the Top guys under 25, it feels like they were more. They should have renamed it something like the most exciting and fastest risers under the age of 25. Because Derek Stingley and Will Anderson are almost getting penalized for having done it longer than some of these guys who did it for one year. Jaden freaking Daniels is right next to Will Anderson on this list. Yeah, Jaden Daniels is still riding that. Look, this is right. Jayden Daniels is lucky he got injured last year because basically when he was on the field, he looked like he was going to have a year. A lot like C.J. stroud's second season. But because he was injured a bunch, they. They just. People are just kind of rolling along and be like, well, we got to see he had a really good rookie year. When was that? That was two years ago. But, you know, injuries and whatnot. Like, all right, no, I'm not. I'm not giving him a stamp of authenticity yet based on his rookie year performance. When I've lived a similar situation not too long ago.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, I had picked him last off season as that Stroud candidate. That was. Take a step back. And now obviously injuries played a big role, but. Yeah, yeah, you need to. You need to see it sustained first. Speaking of quarterbacks, Jaden Daniels, like you said, number eight on the list, Caleb Williams, number seven, and then Drake May, number four. No, C.J. stroud because he is under 25. No C.J. stroud on this list of top 25 players under 25. Does that seem like an omission at all or. No?

[Seth Payne]

No, because you're including all, you know. Yeah, all positions, potential positions. Yeah, that, that. Yeah, it's. That's. That's where we are with that right now. I thought when I was looking, I was. Did the same thing as you. I got really offended early on because I thought it was ranked higher to lower and I, and I saw that Cooper De Jean was above Derek Stingley, which I thought meant he was ranked higher, but no, he's actually ranked lower than, than Derek Stingley.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, that's when they, when, when websites and, and such make these lists, they have to make it a little more convenient. Like a lot of times, especially for the purposes of what we're doing here, you just want to see who's at the top of the list, but they start at number 25. And not only that, like there's a lot of, there's a lot of scrolling in this article. If I want to go down and be like, oh, who's the top five? I have to scroll for two minutes here.

[Seth Payne]

I respect the game because look there, what you're talking about is a website that's still trying to make money the old fashioned way on an actual website. And they want you to be on that page as long as possible.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

So you got to be able to scroll down, scroll down, scroll down. I think websites themselves and actual blogs are like, from a financial standpoint are making a little bit of a comeback because so many of these damn companies are using AI to write their articles.

[Sean Pendergast]

Right.

[Seth Payne]

Which, which I hate. And yet at the same time they're like, oh, okay, we can actually just spit this out for $0 and sell some advertising.

[Sean Pendergast]

That's why I do like what ESPN does. Not that anyone really cares, but if you are somebody, a sports fan who reads a lot of stuff online, I like that ESPN will give almost like, like a chapter or whatever the top of the article where you could just click that link and it'll bring you right down to that portion.

[Seth Payne]

Oh yeah, down to. Yeah. Especially in these listicle type things where they've got, they, they rank 20 different teams that you can click on the top and then do.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah. If you're only interested in the Texans, you just click Houston. It takes you right to that section instead of having to scroll. So I do appreciate that from ESPN.com they got that part right. They also listed on, on this list 10 players who barely miss. So that gives you 35 players under 25. Kamari Lasseter not mentioned amongst those top 35. Does that feel like underrating?

[Seth Payne]

That feels like that, yes. That feels like an omission. Again, for a guy that I know, the Pro bowl doesn't matter as much as it used to, but he made a Pro bowl already and I think is going to have to deal with kind of being in Derek Stingley's shadow for as long as those two are on the same team together, I think, because. Because Derek Stingley is the guy that is like in terms of pure cover skills and everything, people just love looking at him as the guy who does the. Like. He's the ideal. Other than the health issues, he's the ideal cornerback in the way he operates that I think there's always going to be a perception that Kamari Lasseter is, you know, getting the. Either extra help or it's just easier to play when. When in fact it's harder to play opposite a guy like that because people are gonna target you and they're gonna test you and they've done that the last couple years and he's. He's risen to the challenge. But there's. There's almost. There's almost like a glass ceiling that's keep people keeping people from going all in on Kamari Lasseter because he's a little bit more of a. He doesn't fit that. He doesn't fit all those ideal parameters in terms of the. In terms of length, speed, one on one, coverability and everything. He's just a. I don't want to call him a unicorn. He's not that unique or anything, but he just excels in a lot of parts of the game that people don't value as highly, but that make him a really, really good football player.

[Sean Pendergast]

Do you buy into this idea that came in on the Texan because obviously you played here for the Texans and you played, of course, even earlier right at the beginning of the franchise. Do you buy into the idea of like the disrespect for Houston athletes that the Texans are just always overlooked? And that's why even as good as a Will Anderson is or Stingley is, they'll be underrated on types of lists like this.

[Seth Payne]

No, I don't think that. No, I don't. Because for one, at least in the NFL, I just don't. I don't think it operates that. That way as much anymore. And I say that while also thinking that that's a little bit of Daniel Hunter. The fact that like, if. If Daniel Hunter had played for a team, like a New York team or if he'd played for the packers or something, then I think you'd probably have more notoriety. So it's still somewhat of a factor. But if we look at, I mean, this defense, people wouldn't shut up about this Texans defense and all their players headed into the postseason. It was probably one of the biggest talking points in any NFL programming during the playoffs, was how much people loved the defense and so that part of it. And if you look at C.J. stroud, the National. The amount of adulation that C.J. stroud got was kind of alarming after his rookie year. To the point where people would accuse guys like us of being overly negative or something if we were like saying like, this feels like a bit much right now. So, no, I don't buy into it. I don't think. I don't think you have to. Houston's like, it's, it's not going to be like the packers or the Raiders or the Giants or the Cowboys or one of those teams that just always gets attention no matter what. But it's not like the, I think really like the Bills until the last few years, the Jaguars ever. You know, like, the Jaguars are. The Jaguars get really under discussed when they have a good team. The AFC south in general a little bit, but I just don't. I don't think it matters as much as it used to.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, yeah, I can see that. It's become such a. I mean, there's the NFL Network and everything's discussed and like, I think, I think the whole league at this point, like the good enough players or the big enough stories get covered somewhere or continually because there is, there's just so many outlets and so many people are covering it. It's become such a big, such a big sport and such a big thing. It's not like, you know, I hear from my, my father, my uncles growing up where it's like, hey, we had two channels and it was just whatever team was on, that's all we could watch and we didn't know what was going on. You know, it's obviously, it's so, so

[Seth Payne]

yeah, ever since fantasy football got so big, I think it, it started. It's true A lot of sports, you know, like Arian Foster is a perfect example of. Was a, was a celebrity before the, the Texans even actually really turned the corner in 2011. People kn knew who Arian Foster was partly because he was just such a fantasy football stud. And yeah, so it's, I don't, I don't worry about that. Like guys getting ignored wholesale like they used to. Like Daniel Hunter. Okay. He's never, I don't get the sense that he ever wants any part of being a celebrity, so it doesn't really matter. But like, if, if he did, then it might be a little bit harder. But we also live in a city where J.J. watt, like, there's plenty of guys that, that like Aaron Donald's. Aaron Donald is, you Know, as, like, on the same level of notability in terms of what, Like, I still think JJ was a better. Like, JJ at his peak was a better defensive defensive lineman than Aaron Donald. But Aaron Donald is like, right there in the same conversation. Like, JJ is a much bigger star despite having played at Houston. Just because J.J. alex, put a little bit of work into being a star too. You know, like, it was J.J. watt. Go ahead and find anybody who thought J.J. watt was somehow ignored by the national media when he was winning his three defensive MVPs. They talked about him a lot.

[Sean Pendergast]

Right? Right. Yeah. I think your fantasy point's a good one because I think Matt Schaub's another guy who had his profile elevated by fantasy. I had a college roommate who would draft shop every year because, you know, he would throw for yards and touchdowns and share some interceptions, some pick sixes along the way. But some fantasy players that at least I was playing with always love shop because he'd get you some points. He would be held in higher regard in fantasy than maybe in the real world.

[Seth Payne]

That's one thing that you appreciate as you get older. Myself, every now and then I run into somebody who, like, used to play me on, like, either on Madden or on some defunct NFL game that doesn't exist anymore. And it's always cool to. It's actually really enjoyable to hear people, like, tell us, say. Say nice things about you related to a video game or fantasy football. You know, like, I didn't play a fantasy football position, but I think it's that same dynamic when you're. When you're. When you're in your 40s and some random guy in a grocery store says, like, oh, you used to hit this spin movie. It was incredible. I used you all the time on NFL. Whatever it was.

[Ben]

Right.

[Seth Payne]

What are some of the defunct NFL video games?

[Sean Pendergast]

Well, yeah, not to fanboy, but for me it was ESPN2K5, which I.

[Seth Payne]

That's what it was.

[Sean Pendergast]

I thought was better than Madden back then. And I. Even though I was. Because growing up and living in Connecticut.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

For some reason I would do franchises or dynasties with the Texans and I would. I would actually play as you because I was. I'm always a down lineman. I don't play as the cornerbacks or anybody.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

And so, yeah, 21 years ago, I'd play as ESPN2K5.

[Seth Payne]

I think for whatever reason, there was some kind of glitch in their programming where I was like, unstoppable somehow. If you had, if you used a cut, if you used a certain move because multiple people have told me that it's it's never been anything that's been. I've never been overrated in my Madden ratings or anything. So I must be ESPN. Can we bring back ESPN2K5?

[Sean Pendergast]

Yes please. Those are great games. Better than Madden at the time. I'll stand by that and loved playing with the Texans back then. Coming up, we'll catch up with the fellas from in the Loop and find out the question of the day. But also, should the Astros actually be buyers at this point? You can let us know in the text sign. We'll talk about it next. Payne and Pender Guys, your outdoor space is where you unwind and make memories. So make it count. Belgard pavers are designed to elevate your outdoors design forward and built to last.

[Seth Payne]

Learn [e-mail] that's B L G A

[Sean Pendergast]

R D.com listeners I want to tell you about a new podcast from Odyssey called Family Lore where people tell interesting stories about their family history and then

[Seth Payne]

we investigate the truth behind Family Lore

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[Sean Pendergast]

But you still want the Astros to be buyers at the deadline at this point. Payne and Pendergast wrapping up this Thursday morning. We'll catch up with the fellas from in the Loop here in a few moments. Get the question of the day, but I'm Luke Morrow in for Sean alongside Seth Payne. 713-572-4610 on the text line or YouTube and Twitch chats are there for you as well. Astros lost last night 82 to the Nationals dropping that series. None of their starting pitchers made it through the fifth inning, which that's a good thing that they have an off day today so everyone could get well rested now and they start a big series. Astros actually have a big series with the Rangers starting tomorrow. The Rangers and Mariners are both playing today so they can gain a half game on the Astros and Houston will enter the weekend either a game and a half out of first in the west or two and a half games out. But they play the Rangers starting tomorrow. Three game series leading into the All Star break with which again Texas will either be one or two games up on the Astros by tomorrow. And the Mariners play the Rays this weekend. Which is the best team in baseball or in the American League? I should say so. You know, if the Astros take care of business and if you get some help from Ray the Rays, there is a scenario where, who knows, they might be in first place heading into the All Star break.

[Seth Payne]

So yeah, this is the AL west, which I've. I've lost. I have no shame about it anymore. I don't want to. I don't even care that the team that's leading the division is 47 and 46 right now. That's the world we live in. And when in row you live as the Romans do.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yes.

[Seth Payne]

What the AL west is, it's a bitter death battle to see who can be slightly above.500 at the end of the year.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, that's what someone on the text line said. I just want the Astros to put us out of our misery. But the AL is so bad that we're going to be in the race until the very end. So that's the case. If you were in another division or in the nl, it might be different. But that's the thing here. That's my thing is what's the best move realistically for the Astros. As fans, you always want to compete and be relevant and try and you don't want to think about the future and it's not your money so you don't care about that and everything, but like, is it best to truly try to be buyers if you do believe, like our ceiling is just to get to the playoffs this year, or is it best to kind of set yourself up for the future where you can come back and actually be like a world, a true World Series contender in the future? Because I think back to in this division, the Texas Rangers, just a couple years ago, it was 20, 24, where they had just won the World Series. At the trade deadline, they were three games under.500, but they were three and a half games out of a playoff spot. And so they bought instead of selling off some of their pieces. Had a disappointing season. Last year was even worse. This year hasn't been much better. And it's that idea of like almost kind of getting stuck in that purgatory or spinning your wheels instead of admitting, like, you know what, we're not good enough right now, let's kind of bag this season and make sure we're set up better for the next couple of years.

[Seth Payne]

That's where it's always. I mean, everybody's going to feel differently about it. There's going to be a spectrum of people who are just tear it all down at any given time versus other people that want to fight until the bitter end. I think that it's always easier to say, hey, no, like you guys need to, you need to really just, just hit like hit an actual reset button on this team and organization and get. Build back up from within, et cetera, et cetera. It's hard for GMs to survive that cycle. That it's always easy to say, like, oh yeah, I'll be totally cool with actually sucking for a couple years. Nobody ever actually is. Your resolve gets tested immediately. So I think that for me right now, I look at the mediocrity of the American League and look at it as an opportunity, really. And I do have, I have more of an appetite than I would have expected. If you had told me, you know, two months ago that the Astros would work their way back up to near.500, would you want them to, to be a buyer at the trade deadline, I probably would have guessed, I probably would have said no, that I needed some kind of a, like a real surge. I want to see 12 game win streak or something. And they didn't do it that way. They did it more gradually and they won a bunch of series along the ways, most of them against mediocre teams. But I think that they've gotten to a point where you can see how with just a couple of twists and adjustments right now including bringing in a starting pitcher and that if you get the best offensively out of guys like Paredes and Christian Walker, that all right in this AL Yeah. This is a team that can actually make a run in the playoffs. So I've just got. I've got more of an appetite to be a buyer right now than I thought I would for a sub 500 baseball team.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

And I do get that perspective as well of like just get there chip chair and a chance and we've seen some teams that especially in baseball that get hot at the right time or didn't have a good first half or even this the 2006 Cardinals I keep referencing who were only four games over.500 and ended up winning the World Series like just get into the playoffs and and let's. Let's see what happens.

[Seth Payne]

It's. It doesn't help that the Astros won the series versus the Rays. Yeah, I feel like I still have like a little bit of a. I've got a little bit of false confidence and bravado from that to say nothing of what happened the last three games versus the Nationals. That raise serious I'm going to. I'm going to lean on that hard for a while.

[Sean Pendergast]

That was a great series win. Problem is there haven't been enough and part of that is because the AL so bad but like they've only beat the winning teams. The only winning teams they've won series against currently are the Guardians, the Cubs and the Rays. And the Rays is a great win that series this past weekend.

[Seth Payne]

If there's only. I don't even care about making the World Series as much as I do beating the Yankees in the ALCS to go to the World Series. That's my. That's my emotional ring that I wear more. That's why I have one of my. One of my commemorative rings that I have keep it here near me all the time. Is the is an ALCS champion ring 2019.

[Sean Pendergast]

That's right.

[Seth Payne]

That matters more to me and feels better than just a meager World Series title.

[Sean Pendergast]

Hey, how about the Yankees 5 and 15 in their last 20 games worst record in baseball during that time and they're averaging like two and a half runs per game in those 20 games without Aaron Judge.

[Seth Payne]

Is this. Is this as simple as is. Is this just going to be another classic Yankees team that whatever they end up doing in the regular season it just. They can't face the up to good pitching when they hit the Playoffs, or is. Is it deeper than that? No, deeper than that. I mean, like, okay, are we, Am I. Can I buy into this losing this ridiculously bad stretch of the Yankees are having and say, yeah, they're just actually not that good, or is it just a blip on the radar?

[Sean Pendergast]

No, I think they're. And again, I'm biased, but I don't think they're that good. My Yankee friends are tired of me texting them all season long, calling them fraudulent. They're.500 against teams with winning records. This year. They've beaten up on a lot of bad teams. And just if you, if you watch them all year, I, I, I, again, I'm biased, but I watch them. I wonder, like, how are they winning this many games? This is a bad lineup, especially without Judge. They do have good starting pitching. I will give them that. No doubt they have a good rotation, and that might help them. That might carry them to a certain, you know, spot in the playoffs. But the lineup's not good enough. The bullpen can be shaky. They really only have Aaron Judge in that lineup. They are still relying on the home run ball. So, yeah, I'm biased, but I don't worry about the Yankees in the, in the playoffs making a World Series run this year. But maybe I'll be proven wrong on the text line. Somebody said biggest need at the deadline, which, by the way, is just over three weeks away. Biggest need a new gm. Another person said, the Astros fan of me wants to win and make a move, but I don't trust Dana to be the guy to do it it. So let's just ride this thing out and see what happens. Yeah, not a bad thought. Somebody said Astros continue to prove they are fools gold. They're 46 and 49 right now, but two games out of first. However, the numbers I keep referencing, fourth worst run differential, they've overachieved by three wins so far, and they're 20 and 25 against teams with winning records.

[Seth Payne]

I feel like Fool's Gold is a little bit too generous to say again. Fool's Gold would be if they, you know, they actually had a, like a respectable winning record right now, but it feels like it's all going to fall to dust. So I think Fool's Gold is not aggressive enough of a criticism for me.

[Sean Pendergast]

And the last one I wanted to get to is Somebody said the 2026 Astros have no chance competing for anything real other than the AL west, which is meaningless.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

So that's, that's, that's the end to Your point, as you referenced earlier, not only do GMs not want to, like, be in the tank or be bad, but especially when you have Dana Brown, who has an expiring contract. He definitely doesn't want to try to pack it in on the second half of the season and just fade away from Houston, even if that's what fans prefer.

[Seth Payne]

I would love. Yeah, you know, what? If he makes a desperate. If he makes a desperate, you know, attempt to save his job by some aggressive moods at the trade deadline, it would still serve a dual purpose. It would either. It would either, A, maybe work out, or B, it would be a miserable disaster, and then the organization would have no choice but to say, all right, like, listen, we gotta. We just gotta. We gotta lean a little to a little bit more hardcore into hitting the reset button and take our medicine for a couple years. And maybe, you know, you have some rough seasons, but so, so, so be it. We've done it before. Like, you buy. You know, it's. For me, with Jim Crane right now, it feels like he went through the really miserable, hard part of tanking, which was at the time, like. Like, people love to act like they. They had faith in the process at the time. Very few people had faith in the process. You never do when it's a new group of people that are intentionally sucking and you just have to say, okay, well, oh, we're only gonna. We'll suck for four years and then we'll be great.

[Ben]

Sure.

[Seth Payne]

Like, nobody ever actually emotionally signs on for that. In hindsight, you say, oh, yes, of course. I knew. I knew all the moves they were making. I was monitoring all these Triple A championships they were winning, and I knew that it was going to be incredible. But. So Jim Crane has been through it before, and he's come out the other side, and he's made four World Series appearances with it. But then to try to go back and do that again, there's probably, like, a little bit of ptsd, and it wouldn't have to be as aggressive a tank as it was was in 2013, 2014. But he just doesn't have an appetite for it now. It's so. It's like when I decide every now and then in the summer, I'll be like, all right, I'm gonna get back in shape. I'm gonna do my old football workouts now. I'm gonna do a conditioning test just like I did in football. Man, I get, like, 20 minutes into that workout. Like, nope, nope, not, Not. No reason to go through this again. I don't I did. There's. I don't need to be miserable like this ever again in my life. And I think Jim Crane just doesn't want to ever have to be miserable like that again in his life.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, I don't blame you. It's like the New Year's resolution. It always falls off by the end of January. Crosstalk sponsored by DNM Auto Leasing. Reggie's in the house. B. Scott back in for Lopez. The fellas have in the loop today. Are you guys superstitious? I did see this, that ever since Christian Walker did that whole thing where he wiped Yordan's bat on himself, Jordan's 1 for 18 and Christian Walker is batting.333 since then. Do you guys buy into superstition in sports at all?

[Ben]

I'm a little stitches, not superstitious, I would say just a little stitious. And if it's gonna be this way, I would prefer that Christian Walker be able to get some of the good juju from Jordan. Cause I trust Jordan, no matter what, to eventually figure it out. Like, I think Christian Walker, if we're gonna be superstitious anyway, I think Christian Walker or Yordan's. The goodness of Yordan is more likely to influence Christian Walker than whatever Christian Walker is going on, has going on to influence Yordon.

[Luke Morrow]

I'm significantly more pragmatic than I am superstitious. However, I also am not a consistent person. So whatever is most fun for me, I'm willing to rock with. Right? Like, that's the way that I operate and I go through life. And so if the superstition is more fun in this moment than actually being pragmatic and saying, like, guys, we know that this is not how this works. I'll rock with the superstition. Why not?

[Ben]

Let's go with the party.

[Luke Morrow]

Like, deep down, I. I don't believe it. However, this is fun.

[Sean Pendergast]

Let's go with it. Yeah, I'm only superstitious in sports, and I could be very superstitious in sports, but in the real world, I'm not so much like that, but something about sports.

[Seth Payne]

The superstition part of it is. It's interesting because, like, from the athletes themselves, I think a lot of times things that get labeled as superstition is more actual routine or changing a routine or ritual, especially that there are certain things that you can do ritualistically that just. Just gets you in the right mindset or puts you in the right frame of mind. So, like, the relievers all taken, the bullpen cart, the Other day, I thought that was awesome, and I would have encouraged them. Okay, look, it worked out really well. You guys got to do this every time you're in a ballpark where there's a bullpen cart to go ahead and take the bullpen cart. It wouldn't be because I believe that it's some kind of superstitious fix. It's that.

[Sean Pendergast]

All right.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. It probably puts. It takes a little bit of the pressure off, a little bit of frivolity or whatever. And. And it's a little bit of a custom that they do. I like stuff like that.

[Ben]

I tell you what, superstitious or not, this is one thing that felt like a bad idea at the time and seems like a bad idea in retrospect. Y' all remember last year when they put Christian Walker at Jose Abreu's locker? That was the thing. And they were like, man, we gotta get him away from this. From this area.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Ben]

They quickly addressed that, and I'm glad they did. Superstitious or not, like, let's just. Let's keep the vibes immaculate.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, I'm with you. Hey, you're listening to K I L T A M. K I L T F M H.D. 2 Houston and Odyssey Sports station. What is the question of the day today?

[Luke Morrow]

I know that you guys are familiar with this gentleman, however, it's just fun to say his nickname, Zizu, more professionally known as Zinedine Zidane. This is the 20th anniversary of him deciding to headbutt the mess out of a dude in the middle of a World cup final. And I don't know if you guys would agree with me. I have a strong feeling that you would. That was a holy bleep moment in sports.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

I don't know if you were watching it live. Watching it live, I was like, oh.

[Seth Payne]

Oh, God.

[Luke Morrow]

Because it wasn't that he decided, I am mad. I'm going to punch you. Right. Do you know how mad you got to be to go immediately to. I'm putting my head through your chest.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

And so my mind in that moment was blown.

[Ben]

A little crazy, too. Yes. Got me a little crazy.

[Luke Morrow]

Which, again, makes this all the more fun for me personally, not being in the room or in the place that this happens. However, it was a big holy BLEEP moment. And so that kind of want to go into. What are your favorite holy BLEEP moments in sports?

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, I've got.

[Ben]

I've got one just to tease it. I've got one that stands out that everybody should remember. If you Were. If you were alive in 2000. Let's call it five.

[Sean Pendergast]

Okay. Interesting. Yeah. I'm going to try to be thinking about it.

[Seth Payne]

In the meantime, mine was. I was on the field in 1999. I was with the Jaguars. We were playing the Browns, and an official threw a flash, and it hit offensive tackle Orlando Brown in the eye.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And.

[Seth Payne]

And I was there and saw. I was. I was standing not too far away from Orlando Brown, shoving. I think it was triplet. The referee, like, as far. It looked like a cartoon. Like, it was in my mind when I'm remembering it. I know this is inaccurate, but this is what my brain has done to it. Triplet went, like, 10ft in the air, landed, like, 20 yards away. That's what it looked like in the moment. And you got to know. This is Orlando Brown senior. His nickname was Zeus.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yes.

[Seth Payne]

Because he was just a mountain of a man. And he was nasty. Like, he was usually. When offensive linemen, like, people call offensive lineman nasty. I'm like, all right, whatever. No, he was nasty. He was like a big, mean, scary dude. And I just. I immediately thought. My first thought was, like. Like, don't be a punk. Don't be a punk. Because my first reaction was, like, I got to take a few steps back from all of this.

[Luke Morrow]

That is the right one. I will. I will contend that to this day. You made the right decision.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. Yeah. I was like. I was like, don't. Don't step backwards. Don't step backwards. But I was also thinking, like, who the hell's gonna reign this dude in if. If he just decides to. To murder all the peasants? It was. It was crazy. It was nuts. Then you find out later, one of the reasons he freaked out was that his dad is blind or his dad was blind, so there was extra. Like, he couldn't see out of his eye. What are these. What are the odds.

[Ben]

What are the odds that you would accidentally hit somebody in the eye with a. With a flag and it would be somebody with. That kind of hurt.

[Oregon Lottery Announcer]

Yeah.

[Ben]

With that kind of background.

[Sean Pendergast]

Sure.

[Seth Payne]

With blindness, of all things, the odds are a little bit better, because I'm guessing he threw it with a normal trajectory. But Orlando brown was, like, 6 foot 8. So it's kind of like when I threw the Tide pot at Sean.

[Luke Morrow]

That's right.

[Seth Payne]

That was our Orlando Brown moment. And he was like, I was afraid. That's why I was so scared of Sean in that moment. I thought he was gonna shove me like I was Jeff Triplett or something.

[Luke Morrow]

Why were you afraid? I Was the one sitting next to him.

[Ben]

Hey, but aren't y' all glad that Sean is not Orlando Brown?

[Luke Morrow]

So much so.

[Sean Pendergast]

Oh, my goodness.

[Ben]

How would that have gone?

[Luke Morrow]

I would have been in trouble.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

Like, I would have had to, like, put the. All these people that, when we were walking around San Francisco, thought I was a safety. I'd have had to put their belief. I had to, like, try and restrain him.

[Ben]

Hey, honestly, for Seth, it would have been one of the few times where Seth might have been in trouble. Like, in most cases, Seth would be able to. To have the advantage in that. But if, like, if Sean is all. All of a sudden Orlando Brown. Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

Cause Sean.

[Ben]

Now we've got a. Now we've got a match.

[Luke Morrow]

Sean has all of the, like, hypothetical things that we talk about in this moment. Like, he has the moral high ground in that moment. He is a father, so he has dad strength. He's got old man strength in there as well. Like, I think that he would have all of the. All of the respective. I don't know, Dragon balls. What is it, infinity stones to go and whip somebody's ass in that moment? Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

You know what? You know what we can do to test this out next year? I'll just go ahead and out of nowhere, I'm gonna go over to the. The Patriots radio booth there and just chuck Ted Johnson in the face with his high pot. We'll have the showdown of the century.

[Ben]

Ted is such a nice guy, too.

[Seth Payne]

He'd be like, hey, what's that about? Ted would. I don't know. Yeah, but Ted can still flip the switch.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Seth Payne]

I have to tell him. I'd have to. I would build up to it so it wasn't out. If it was completely out of nowhere, he wouldn't know how to react. He would just. He would just be like a. Wtf? But if he knew that I was planning on doing it and then did it, then we'd. We'd have a good old brawl.

[Luke Morrow]

Yes. If you can't do that, like, I love the idea, but you really and truly can't. Because I don't want you to develop the reputation as the dude who throws stuff at people. Because, like, there's this.

[Seth Payne]

This.

[Luke Morrow]

This made it around super bowl radio rugby too late. Might be too late.

[Ben]

It happened.

[Seth Payne]

But this is the thing. I've got two times. I've got two, like, two notable incidents on radio roll.

[Luke Morrow]

I think that they're different enough that I don't. Well, I don't know. Maybe I can't speak for everybody. I feel like they're different enough if you end up with like, hey, he threw stuff at people twice. I feel like you gonna go over to, like, the Minnesota booth and they're gonna be like, hey, aren't you the dude at those stuff at people? Like, I don't. I don't want that to be the case.

[Seth Payne]

But see, that's my shtick.

[Ben]

See, I could just picture it where we got Figgy filming everybody's face when they see Seth, like, just the expression on their faces just change immediately.

[Seth Payne]

And they're afraid.

[Sean Pendergast]

It's like Jaws.

[Ben]

Yeah, well, they're not afraid that he's gonna punch him. They're afraid of that top hot.

[Seth Payne]

What's. What's yours, Luke?

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, not as. Not. It's a tough act to follow. There's a bunch that come to mind immediately, but the one I'll say that was most recent was just this past March with UConn, because I grew up in Connecticut. I am a UConn fan. But they're come back against Duke when they were down like 20 in the second half, and then they get the steal, and Braylon Mullins, a freshman, hits a 35:40 foot three pointer to win at the buzzer. I was watching that and I was like, I. I was. I was in shock. I think I ushered that same phrase of like, oh, my gosh, what just happened?

[Seth Payne]

And we're.

[Sean Pendergast]

We're still alive. So that's probably number one on my list. But there's quite a few and that I'm sure you'll get on the text line. It's certainly. It's a good question and fun to think back to all those. Those iconic moments in sports that left you. Left you. Your jaw dropped a little bit. 100%.

[Oregon Lottery Announcer]

Yeah.

[Ben]

I got. I got an honorable mention because this one is not going to come up in the segment.

[Luke Morrow]

Oh, it can still come out.

[Ben]

Y' all remember a couple of years ago when LeBron James elbowed Isaiah Stewart?

[Luke Morrow]

Yes.

[Seth Payne]

Beef stew.

[Ben]

And beef stew just went manic.

[Luke Morrow]

Yes.

[Ben]

I will say that was a holy bleep moment for me, because I was

[Seth Payne]

like, is he gonna kill LeBron James

[Ben]

in front of everybody?

[Luke Morrow]

Cause so often in sports, like, we've litigated out the fighting of sports, and I kind of hate it. And so often we see moments where dudes get mad, but it's really just. They're here to bump chest. That dude wanted blood. Oh, yeah. He was running through staffers. He was running around the court.

[Ben]

Once he realized he was, then there is Something about that, like, once you realize you're bleeding, you're like, okay, now the person that made me bleed got to bleed.

[Sean Pendergast]

It's eye for eye.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

I'm watching it right now. And that's the bad. Like, honestly, that is the biggest. There. There is zero. Hold me back to 100%.

[Luke Morrow]

He's like, if you're in the way, you're getting. Got to.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. There's not like, that fake, like, oh, no, I'm trying to escape your grasp because I'm so angry. Like, no. He would have fought anybody and everybody that was in his way. Yeah. And with it, with his face bleeding like that is nuts.

[Sean Pendergast]

It took what.

[Ben]

What seemed like every qualified person to

[Seth Payne]

stop that from happening, and some who

[Luke Morrow]

were unqualified as well.

[Ben]

Yes.

[Sean Pendergast]

It takes all of us. It took a village. Finally, we understand what the NFL was

[Luke Morrow]

talking about in the end zone.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yes.

[Luke Morrow]

It takes all of us. Okay. Finally.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah. And along the same lines, I'm sure it'll be mentioned, but Malice at the Palace. I. I. Oh, thank you. Yeah. I didn't want to.

[Ben]

We'll run it back.

[Sean Pendergast]

Y. Yeah. Because I'm sure many people say, like, they. But I. I did actually see that live, and that was just unre. That was such a remarkable thing to see play out live on tv.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And it will be hard for us

[Seth Payne]

to relive Malice at the Palace. Isaiah. Isaiah Stewart, when he was acting like he was going to the locker room and then tore back across. Oh, you gotta go watch those eight times he was out. He broke, like, eight tackles.

[Commercial Announcer]

That's right.

[Seth Payne]

I know.

[Luke Morrow]

Honestly, like, we talk about David Montgomery. If you told me I could have Isaiah Stewart or David Montgomery, I might take Isaiah Stewart in the Texas back. I'm not gonna lie. He might be.

[Sean Pendergast]

You tell us, Seth.

[Ben]

He might be a decent nose.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, I know. Yeah.

[Ben]

Imagine lining him up over the center.

[Luke Morrow]

All his snaps are gonna look like Jeffrey Simmons. That one time where he hit C.J. stroud in like, two point in, like 0.2 seconds.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, but acting. That's the move. That's the go to move that. I'm amazed it works so well is the guy that is flipping out and then pretends that he's calmed down. It works every time. Everybody who's trying to be a peacekeeper is like, okay, cool. He's kind of like, calm down. And then, boom, back into the fray. God bless the human spirit in an

[Ben]

extra gear, like, with. With even more fervor than he did before.

[Sean Pendergast]

It's like, wait a minute.

[Ben]

Did he get faster and stronger in seven seconds?

[Seth Payne]

He should be exhausted, like. No, he just needed 20 seconds to catch his breath and then bam, back at it.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, I already love this. I would have loved if he actually got there too. See what would have happened.

[Luke Morrow]

Oh, see, I feel like we could have been dealing with the Kermit Washington situation.

[Ben]

We did not need to get there. Yeah, that would have been a little too memorable.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, that's true. That's true. For all the wrong reasons. All right, we'll stop taking up your, your opening segment here.

[Luke Morrow]

If we did four hours of this, I'd be happy.

[Ben]

Yeah, I am beside myself.

[Sean Pendergast]

Seth, appreciate it as always. I'll talk to you tomorrow for a Friday.

[Seth Payne]

Yes, we will do it. And then I'm going to make you work Saturday too, so get excited for that.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, funny you should say that because. Yeah, Saturday and Sunday actually. So.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

Sound too excited about it now.

[Sean Pendergast]

Yeah, no, I am excited. I am, I am happy to to always be seen over here. Crosstalk sponsored by DNM Auto Leasing. We got to get out of the way.

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[Seth Payne]

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[Seth Payne]

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