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- [00:00]
Luke Morrow
PNC bank brings you call of the wild money moves.
- [00:04]
Seth Payne
Shh.
- [00:05]
Luke Morrow
Listen.
- [00:06]
Seth Payne
Hey guys.
- [00:07]
Luke Morrow
That's the sound of a multi level marketing pitch.
- [00:10]
Seth Payne
This is life changing you guys.
- [00:13]
Luke Morrow
Sounds like she wants you to buy
- [00:14]
Seth Payne
lots of essential oils. They are so essential.
- [00:17]
Luke Morrow
And then have all your friends buy essential oils.
- [00:20]
Seth Payne
Are you more of a geranium or lavender fan? Don't look her in the eyes.
- [00:25]
Luke Morrow
Guard against wild money moves with PNC Bank. Brilliantly boring since 1865. Oregon parks make an Oregon summer. But what makes an Oregon park? Well, Oregon Lottery Gameplay helps no matter the game. Megabucks, video lottery or keno funds from lottery games help support parks projects across the state, ensuring they stay safe, accessible and open for all. In fact, Discover State Park Scratches are in stores now. It's the perfect way to put a little bit of Oregon's parks in your pocket. The Oregon Lottery. Together we do good things. Must be 18 or older to play. Lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only.
- [01:00]
Seth Payne
There's only one Ozempic.
- [01:03]
Luke Morrow
Hello, I'm Ozempic and I'm other GLP1s kinda like him. Ozempic. You redid your jingle. Ah, thanks for noticing. Catchy, right?
- [01:09]
Seth Payne
No. Okay then.
- [01:11]
Luke Morrow
Well ask your doctor about which FDA approved uses of me. The Ozempic pen may be right for you. Call 1-833-OZEMPIC or visit ozempic.com to view the medication guide and learn more about Ozempic. Semaglutide injection 2 milligrams. Only Novo Nordisk makes FDA approved Ozempic.
- [01:27]
Seth Payne
There's only one Ozempic. I told you it was catchy. Your vehicle doesn't just get you from here to there. It's a bridge to the people and places that matter most. It's how you show up for your family, your community and everyone else that depends on you. That's why for 125 years Firestone has been building tires with one thing in to deliver products that are as reliable as you are. Firestone always dependable. Since 1900,
- [02:01]
Luke Morrow
Sports Radio 610 presents Seth Payne and Sean Pendergast.
- [02:05]
Seth Payne
We coming to 8th time they get to work in man. Let's go. Great day, great day. Oh, give me some juice. Oh yeah. Let's do it.
- [02:18]
Luke Morrow
Happy Tuesday. Good morning. Welcome on to Payne and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow in for Sean alongside Seth Payne. Appreciate you start in the morning with us can join the conversation throughout the the next four hours. 713-572-4610 or in the YouTube and Twitch chats, of course. Seth, how are we doing on this Tuesday?
- [02:38]
Seth Payne
I'm good. I'm a little put out.
- [02:39]
Luke Morrow
Yeah.
- [02:39]
Seth Payne
Frankly, put out that our visitors are still here. These are these visitors from around the world that previously loved us that now they're just going to keep playing this tournament, this World cup tournament, even though the US Isn't relevant any longer.
- [02:52]
Luke Morrow
Right. It becomes a little awkward. It's like when you throw a party, but your guests. You don't want to, like, kick out the guests. Or let's say a couple. A husband and wife throwing a party and the husband's had enough, or the wife and they actually, like, go to the bedroom to go lay down and go to sleep, but the guests don't take the hint. And they're still hanging out the house, and you don't want to be too rude to kick them out. And you're like, the party's over. We're done. Why are you still here? Go home.
- [03:16]
Seth Payne
There's a bunch of people lingering about the BUC EE's like, okay. They're all. They're sending out social media videos few weeks ago, oh, Buc ee's is so big. I cannot believe it. And now they're just. Now they're fat like us, and they're just. They're. They're lingering around the slushy machine. Three weeks in America, and I am so fat.
- [03:40]
Luke Morrow
Yes.
- [03:40]
Seth Payne
And I have diabetes. Right. And I don't. I do not know anymore.
- [03:45]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. Everyone was all excited. They were like, ooh, Taco Bell. All these different fast food places, which obviously are in other countries, but not as often. And they're a little different here. Yes. To your point. Right. Eat that for a few weeks and then see how you feel about that establishment. Or just about, you know, just how you feel in general.
- [04:00]
Seth Payne
I feel this morning, honestly, I feel like I went on a fast food binge. You know, like back in the old days when I would hit a Whataburger, and then, oh, look, there's a Taco Bell right next to the Whataburger. And, hey, why not McDonald's for old times sake? Let's just do it all. Let's do it big today. That's how. And then the next day, you feel kind of sluggish and empty and you hate yourself a little bit. That's how I feel right now. After. After watching the World cup and after watching the Astros, really, let's. Let's call it what it is. After watching Mike Burroughs for. For. For three innings. That's all you needed really was three innings out of Burroughs to figure out where that was going last night.
- [04:35]
Luke Morrow
Right. And that's part of my problem with Joe Espada, and I've defended Espada throughout his tenure. I like Joe Espada. I think many Astro fans are, are, are too unfair to him. But my issue with him and a lot of baseball managers, I don't like that this is a thing in baseball, but they just keep running him out there within a game. I'm not even talking about, like, should Burrow still be getting starts? Once he's out there last night and he coughs up a 61 lead, do we need to put him back out there in the fifth inning and not get anybody up in the bullpen until the Nationals already took the lead? And I think the bases were loaded, too, by the time they pulled him? You shouldn't leave a guy in long enough to allow 10 runs. And too often managers like a spot last night do it because they just, we got to get some innings, and it's a long season. We don't want to burn out the bullpen. But I think especially for the Astros, you're not in a place right now where you can, like, mess around with games. You got to try to win these games. And the fact that we can leave in a guy to give up 10 runs, to me, especially Mike Burrows, who we've seen it before, is unacceptable.
- [05:37]
Seth Payne
Mike Burrows, for what it's worth, like, I don't know for what it's worth. He's, he's an innings eater. I think that's what his body, he can't divorce himself from. Even after Burrows horrendous performances. Sometimes they'll say, well, he gave us, you know, he gave us six innings. Like, right, he gave you six innings and allowed in a nine ERA clip on any given night. So I, I, I've tried to give bir. I've tried to give a spot a little bit of a break when it comes to the way managers starting pitching, because, A, he's just, he's had too many guys like Burroughs to have to deal with, but then, B, he's had to balance the demands on the relief staff. And there's just, if you start looking two and three days out, it can get, it can get a little, it can get hairy real quick. I mean, at some point you just gotta, at some point, you just gotta hope that you're one of your starting pitchers doesn't have the second worst ERA in all of baseball. And yet there you are with, yeah, but as expected era, this is what, this is what annoyed me last night is like Burrows citing bad luck. You know, this is a quote. I'm in the zone. I'm not afraid to make those guys swing. You get beat a couple times a game. If it's right at someone, then it's going to be a great start. If it finds a way from them, away from them or fence, that's when some runs come. You can't be perfect. All right? Your expected ERA is 4.64. You know, it's just, you're not, no, you're like, just because you've had a little bad luck, especially early in the season, it doesn't diminish the fact that you have not been pitching well. I, I, I don't mind pitchers citing bad luck at times just because they got to keep their brains right. You know, they can't, they can't totally just feel like they suck. And yet there, there seems to be some need to depend on or lean on the analytics with Mike Burroughs, when anybody can see with their damn eyes. Oh, oh, no. You had a little bit of bad luck.
- [07:34]
Luke Morrow
Yeah.
- [07:34]
Seth Payne
Only 10 of those, only seven of those runs were chalked up to you. Okay. You got a break on three of those runs that scored. No, no, you're not, no, you're not citing bad luck by any stretch of luck or by the traditional stats or anything. You're a horrible pitcher this year. And Dana Brown traded young prospects who just haven't done anything yet. But still, it's endemic to so many of the lackluster additions they made in the last couple years.
- [08:02]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, it is. And it's hard to cite bad luck. I get it over a small sample size, but, you know, like Parcels would say, you create your own luck. When we're talking half a season in now, beyond half the mid, you know, we're beyond the midway point and you have the second worst ERA in the American League. It's hard to say, like, ah, it's just been a really unlucky three months. That's too large of a sample size to fall back on luck. And to your point, he's second in ERA amongst qualified pitchers and he may who pitches tonight. He hasn't thrown enough innings, but he has an even higher era. So that's where I struggle to fully buy in, where 40% of your starting rotation, statistically, they're two of like the three worst starters that teams are running out there in the American League right now, and they're still getting starts and
- [08:50]
Seth Payne
you go up against A team like the Nationals, hey. 500 baseball team. But, but they've got one of the best offenses in baseball. And if we, we talked yesterday, and I've talked a bunch of times about how, man, just like he had in the previous couple seasons when the Astros made a push into playoff contention, like real bonafide playoff contention, you've got a win streak somewhere along the way or you have a stretch where you win 10 out of 12 games or what have you. And even though they won a bunch of, a bunch of series in a row, I mean, that, that one real big push, it's hard to envision when you've got guys like Burroughs and Imai that are just going to throw a wrench into any kind of streak or a run you can get on.
- [09:35]
Luke Morrow
Right. People are going to say, like in the playoffs, you know, you don't. You're not going to need them. They're not going to start. But we got to get to the playoffs. But we got to get to the playoffs first, right? And then we can dump those guys and only worry about three starters.
- [09:48]
Seth Payne
Well, go. If you have a four man rotation in the playoffs, though, that's the problem. One of them is still going to be Burroughs or Imai at this point, depending on what happens with Javier and how they decide to use him. I mean, I don't know how many more Burrows starts you need like that before they start really thinking, okay, yep, yep, it's time for Javier to stretch out into a starter. I mean, maybe it starts after last night.
- [10:11]
Luke Morrow
Right? I know. And for those, by the way, I sort of buried the lead, so to speak. I mean, Burrows is the lead. But if you're just waking up with us. The Astros lost the opener last night. 1211 was the final. They were up 61 and then allowed 11 unanswered runs to the Nationals. Tried to fight back, but went 1, 2, 3 in the ninth inning, lose by one. And now they're 45 and 48. So, you know, kind of two steps forward, one step back, as we were just saying, because of this, this rotation. Burrows now leads the league in losses. He leads the league and earned runs allowed. He is third in most homers allowed. And one of the guys in front of him pitches at a minor league stadium for the A's. So that's with an asterisk.
- [10:53]
Seth Payne
Going to be tough for him to climb up. You know, that's.
- [10:56]
Luke Morrow
He's trying, he's trying his hardest.
- [10:58]
Seth Payne
The Astros have any games left in Oakland or in, in Sacramento?
- [11:02]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, we'll See if Burrows has to start out there. So I tried to do some research and find what was the last playoff team that had two starting pitchers, both with ERAs over six. And my qualifier was 15 or more starts. So that they actually were pitching for a majority of the season. Yeah, I only found one team in the history of the wild card era, which goes back to, I believe, 94. So the last, you know, 32 years, I found one team that actually made the playoffs with two starting pitchers having ERAs over six. And funny enough, it was actually a team that won the World Series. The 2006 Cardinals.
- [11:39]
Seth Payne
Oh.
- [11:41]
Luke Morrow
And they kind of remind me of the Astros in the sense of they only had 83 wins that year, so they were hardly over.500. They were in what statistically or historically is the worst National League of all time. 2006, the National League had the lowest winning percentage. This year, the American League has the lowest winning percentage in the history of the American League. It might only take 83 wins for the Astros to get to the playoffs.
- [12:03]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [12:03]
Luke Morrow
And somehow the Cardinals still found a way to win a World Series that year. By the way, their scouting director at that time, Jeff Luno.
- [12:09]
Seth Payne
Oh, that's right.
- [12:12]
Luke Morrow
But here's the thing for the Cardinals, it's amazing that they won the World Series that year. I don't remember this being the case, but they had four different starting pitchers with ERAs over five. I don't know how they won the World Series, obviously, with a great offense, you know, with Albert Pujols. But the thing with the Cardinals was that they actually made some changes. Mark Mulder had an ERA of seven. He only made 17 starts. You know, Jeff Weaver had an ERA over five, only made 15 starts, so on and so forth. But when you look at this now, like, burrows, we're approaching 20 starts. So it begs the question, like, when are the Astros going to make those changes to try to save their season? Sort of like the 2006 Cardinals did.
- [12:49]
Seth Payne
They. One of the. One of the trades they had made that year was for Jorge Sosa, the pitcher, and he ended up with a. It's not like he was a revelation for the Cardinals or anything. He had a 5.28 ERA with the Cardinals that year. So I do. Yeah. I was impressed when I. When I saw that you cited the 2006 Cardinals, I thought that you just pulled that off the top of your dome. Like, oh, that was. Yeah. Oh, yeah. This reminds me of the 2006 Cardinals. I think that's the first thing that popped into my brain.
- [13:17]
Luke Morrow
Yes.
- [13:20]
Seth Payne
I think this is where, again, the peril of saying the same thing over and over again. I mean, last year I was kind of, I was one of those dopes that was saying, hey, your deadline acquisitions are the guys you have coming back from the il.
- [13:37]
Luke Morrow
Yeah.
- [13:38]
Seth Payne
Don't you guys realize how glorious it'll be when all these guys come back from the il? And now I can't say that for the second year in a row, especially when it's okay, I will see exactly how they end up using Javier. Javier is back, but he's in the bullpen and we'll see. I mean, Lance McCullers, great. Like I have no idea even how to address whether to get excited or intrigued by Lance McCullough's return to major league action. Blanco and Wozneski are the other two guys that they'll come back. And then I feel like the entire second half of the season becomes like an extended spring training where you're trying to figure out exactly what you can get out of Blanco, what you can get out of Wisneski. And there's not that much time by the time they get up there to really just ramp them up and know what you have with them.
- [14:27]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, it's. And that's why, look, I get the reports that the Astros are in on all these starting pitchers, Sonny Gray, you know, Scuba. I just don't think they have the pieces to bring in. They might be able to bring in somebody, but not the big fish of the trade deadline this year.
- [14:41]
Seth Payne
Yeah. So it honestly, and we talked about this yesterday, so much of it is for them to be a team that really scares people. It's going to have to be with Pena and Christian Walker really being in their best element in the second half of the season. I mean, look, and you had, look, Christian Walker leads off with a near home run double in the, at the beginning of last night's game. And you saw like they had the output, you know, they scored the runs. They, they just, they, they. Which is funny because they haven't really given Burroughs a whole lot of run support. And you can see why, why bother? It doesn't matter. You can score double digit runs and he's not going to get a win.
- [15:21]
Luke Morrow
You're right. That's deflating. You build a 61 lead, you score 11 runs on the road and you don't even win the game.
- [15:26]
Seth Payne
I would say that's where if I'm a batter for that team, I'm like, I'm skipping the amphetamines tonight. You know, Burrows up there Now, I don't need any. I don't need any of my truck stop meth to try to win a game here with this guy out on the mound.
- [15:39]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, that's right.
- [15:39]
Seth Payne
That's why they don't get any run support.
- [15:42]
Luke Morrow
And the funny thing, too, about the Astros is, like, it was the back of their batting order, too, that did the most of the damage, where you had Bryce Matthews and Shoemake and Yiner had a homer and Cam Smith had a good night. It was the second half of the guys. And I said yesterday, like, the Nationals, one of the best lineups, terrible pitching staff, maybe the worst bullpen in baseball. They almost coughed up that game last night. So you're going to get opportunities as hitters for the Astros, but, man, you have Burrows, and tonight, Imei, we'll see.
- [16:09]
Seth Payne
Yeah, that's. What. No, we got a. He's been awesome, except for the times when he's really, really, really bad. He's the most bipolar of guys right now, and we've. We've just. We've been so tantalized by his undefinable slider that I just. I have to believe and hope that he's just going to figure out exactly how to rein it in, be appropriately aggressive, and that somehow we'll be talking about Imai with a little bit more stability or confidence over the course of the next month or two. Speaking of. I mean, that's a. That's a huge one. That's the other one. I think a realistic wild card on the offensive side, I would say paradise and Walker. And then a realistic wild card defensively would be that Imai. We see it, we know that. We know what he's capable of. It's just a matter of just really nailing it in. And maybe that ends up being one of the big stories of the second half.
- [17:02]
Luke Morrow
You got to have one of those guys. You can't. Well, maybe you can. The 2006 Cardinals probably did it, but they're the only example that's the outlier. You typically can't be a playoff team when you have two of the worst, two of the three worst starting pitchers in the league in your rotation. So one of those guys needs to step up.
- [17:17]
Seth Payne
How'd you filter for all that? Would you. How'd you go through and figure all that out?
- [17:22]
Luke Morrow
I just. I. I just used AI.
- [17:24]
Seth Payne
Yeah. Oh, did you? Yeah. No, it's a good. It's a good way to get you the head start and go down the there.
- [17:29]
Luke Morrow
I mean, there is a way. Like, if. If you have baseball reference. Stat head, I think it's called. You can.
- [17:33]
Seth Payne
Yeah. Yeah. Sad head is. Yeah.
- [17:35]
Luke Morrow
I would have filtered what I filtered on AI was two pitchers, a playoff team, two pitchers with ERAs over six and both with 15 plus starts. Yeah, I think stat head, I think you have to pay for that. I don't know.
- [17:47]
Seth Payne
You do?
- [17:48]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. Okay, so I'm. I love stats, I love baseball, but I'm not paying for, like, a stat service, so I don't pay for it.
- [17:54]
Seth Payne
You pay for stat head and you get a lot of value for your dollar. But the problem is you cannot calculate how much time you. You lost in productivity when you realize, like, oh, I've been on stat head for four hours looking at the dumbest, most arcane thing, you know, pictures whose names ended in vowels that were born before 1970. You do whatever the hell you want, but it's a time suck.
- [18:16]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, I get it. That's. That's part of the reason why I don't want to entrap myself and pay for that subscription.
- [18:22]
Seth Payne
If you put. For me, if you put chat into thinking mode, into deep thinking mode, then it tends to be pretty accurate with a lot of statistical stuff. I get into my most trouble just when I simply think I'm going to go old school and Google something. But then Gemini spits out. Spits out its AI answer, and it's. It's just horrendous. Like, Google has turned into a nightmare. It'll tell you the dumbest crap that ever was. It's just so easily that sometimes you know it off the top of your head. Sometimes you're like, that doesn't look right. And you do a little minimal fact check, and it's ridiculously wrong.
- [18:56]
Luke Morrow
I know it.
- [18:56]
Seth Payne
I guess that's how they're trying to force us into the. Into the paid AI. They make the free stuff.
- [19:02]
Luke Morrow
That's.
- [19:02]
Seth Payne
But that's not how freemium supposed to work. Freemium supposed to be pretty good. And then you pay for the. Oh, wow, we're gonna have the slam dunk. I'll pay for premium, but with Gemini, it's just. It sucks. It's awful.
- [19:14]
Luke Morrow
I. Yeah, I pay for Claude. Yeah.
- [19:18]
Seth Payne
You a programmer?
- [19:19]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, a little bit, yes. That's what I do. I. You. I pay for Claude, but I really only use Claude code, and then I use still my free chat GPT to do my research.
- [19:29]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [19:29]
Luke Morrow
And that's the one where I do catch. It's my stubborn. I guess I should just use Claude. I'm paying for it. But chat GPT seems more like a better research engine to me.
- [19:39]
Seth Payne
What do you code?
- [19:40]
Luke Morrow
I don't code. I. So I use, I just use it. I use Claude code to really do anything on my computer it has access to. It's kind of scary, but has access to everything, like all the files and everything. It can send emails for me.
- [19:54]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [19:54]
Luke Morrow
And then I use another app called, I think it's called Ghost Whisperer where you could just talk to it and just say like, you know, Claude, send an email to Joe Smith telling him I'm going to be late to lunch today, whatever it is, and he'll just go and do it.
- [20:07]
Seth Payne
So it'll do that and it can access your, your texting and everything I gave.
- [20:11]
Luke Morrow
I've given it. Yeah, scary.
- [20:13]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [20:13]
Luke Morrow
I might regret it, but I've given it access to my.
- [20:15]
Seth Payne
Ah, screw it, we're all gonna die someday. So what is it in a gulag somewhere? Perhaps run by computer overlords? Probably, but still I. Okay, so you just. So Claude can basically act like a personal assistant.
- [20:31]
Luke Morrow
Exactly, that's what I'm using. Just using it for efficiency to really help me with anything. Yeah.
- [20:35]
Seth Payne
Okay. Yeah, I tried. I thought I was gonna learn programming for a little bit. I spent about three hours and then I quit when I couldn't. I just couldn't figure out the most basic of things I'm gonna have to go to. Like, I might have to take either like an in person class with somebody on to learn how to code.
- [20:50]
Luke Morrow
I've had.
- [20:51]
Seth Payne
I couldn't. I didn't know how to copy and paste the code to make it actually work. So like that's the level of boomerasm we're dealing with. So I mean, I know how to copy and paste obviously, but to actually get it to do anything, it's completely lost. I need, I need a Gen Z to come in and help me with this stuff.
- [21:08]
Luke Morrow
That part I can do, but I can't create. I have somebody create the things for me that I want Claude to do and then I do the. I just do the copy and pasting and then I have it set up to automate things for me or just expedite things. So yeah, so I'm. I'm not quite there, but it's just like, you know, when I tell people I live in Westview, it's just like projecting something that I'm not. I'm a. I'm a. I'm a Claude Coater over here, but really I have somebody else doing it.
- [21:32]
Seth Payne
Yeah, when I start calling you a Startup founder. That's all you have to say. Call yourself, get yourself a little LLC and we'll, we'll, you know, make you CEO.
- [21:41]
Luke Morrow
Yeah.
- [21:41]
Seth Payne
And we'll come up with now we're talking to built people out of millions of dollars.
- [21:45]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, perfect. That's. Hey, that's why I like sitting in with you in these mornings.
- [21:49]
Seth Payne
Talk about potentialities and such.
- [21:51]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, we're already, we're up and run. Hey, Baseball Talk On Sports Radio 610 is presented by Xfinity Score the most reliable Wi Fi 1 price 5 years guaranteed. Xfinity. Imagine that. We'll continue to talk about the Outros all morning. Of cause, of course. But coming up, more Kevin Durant trade rumors. We got to talk about that next here. Payne and Pendergast. Well, another off season and more Kevin Durant trade rumors. Plus I was also thinking in light of the Jalen Brown trade, has Durant move removed all flexibility for the Rockets at this point? Anyways, we'll get into that here on Pain and Pendergast in just a moment. I'm Luke Morrow in for Sean alongside Seth Payne. You can always text the show 713-572-4610. Get to us in the YouTube and Twitch chats as well. Set there's in the NBA. I gotta be honest, first off, I mean this is like an old man yelling at the clouds. But it does annoy me in the NBA with like all of the. I think LeBron obviously loves being in the headlines. I don't know if Durant loves being in the headlines necessarily, but he loves like he just doesn't get enough of this idea. He's always seems to find himself in these rumors of like hey, I want to go to that team. I want to go to that team. Like you know, almost like Steven, the Stephen Stills song from like the 70s. Like love the one you're with. I get annoyed with these players always in the news about trying to move around. You just got to one place you want to go to the next team a year later.
- [23:18]
Seth Payne
Yeah, nomadic.
- [23:19]
Luke Morrow
Yeah.
- [23:19]
Seth Payne
Just kind of just never have just be where your feet are, man. That's what all the other so what all the super young athletes are telling me these days, that's what you can tell. It's, it's filtered into the self help section of the of Borders and whatnot. Because that's where all the kids shop is at Borders.
- [23:35]
Luke Morrow
Yeah.
- [23:35]
Seth Payne
And but yeah, I keep hearing consistently like yeah, I just got to be where my feet are. And yet Durant refuses to Let his feet stand in any one spot for more than a couple of years.
- [23:44]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, him. And I know LeBron was just in LA for, like, eight years, but it's just. It's the drama every year with LeBron. By the way, when's the last time you actually went to a bookstore for
- [23:53]
Seth Payne
anything other than coffee? It's been a while, actually. I would say over five years or so.
- [23:59]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. I think even longer for me.
- [24:01]
Seth Payne
I couldn't feel bad about that, could you? I count. Can I count like one of those little antique stores in a resort town that also has some books in there, you know, like a little eclectic kind of. It's got a book section. It's got a souvenir section. You get. You could buy a. You could buy an armoire if you want. Yeah, that's about it.
- [24:22]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, I'm with you. So Durant. So this is taken off here in the last 24 hours. Brett Siegel had the report. He used to cover, like, the. The Nets. I think he was in the brook with the Brooklyn Nets, covering the Brooklyn Nets when Durant was there. He now works for Clutch points. I've actually worked with. With Brett before, and he had this report that Kevin Durant. Take. Take this for what you will, but Kevin Durant has interest in playing alongside Cade Cunningham on the Detroit Pistons, so. Interest, yes. And then maybe just by coincidence, and, Seth, you can look it up, because I honestly don't know what it is, but Durant posted a photo on Instagram yesterday of him in a Detroit hat. I think it's a Detroit Tigers hat, but there's also, like, these additional letters. I don't know if it's a spin on the Detroit Tigers hat.
- [25:16]
Seth Payne
I'm not hitting something. Yeah, Yeah.
- [25:19]
Luke Morrow
I don't know. I. But it looks like a Tiger's hat. So then everybody. The Rockets fans or the Durant fans were kind of up in arms yesterday. Like, wait a minute. First we get this report. Now, is Durant either toying with us or leaning into this? There's a photo of it. Maybe it's just a coincidence. We got a photo of him in a Detroit hat, it seems. And then other folks dug up this audio from about seven months ago from the boardroom. Durant talking. This is Durant talking to Pistons star Cade Cunningham about Detroit.
- [25:47]
Seth Payne
I'm like, this final three is Cleveland, Houston and Detroit. I'm like, don't let me go to Cleveland. I mean, Cleveland and Detroit. I mean, what's the. What's the difference? I don't know if it was the red and blue. I don't know if it was the hit like Isaiah Thomas. Yeah. They got a lot of nice history for it. Yeah. I was a big Bron fan growing up, you know what I'm saying? But I'm not trying to go to Cleveland. Yeah. And then it's Houston. I'm from Arlington. Houston. Four hours down the road, like. But in my head, back in my head, I'm like, that might get tricky, you know?
- [26:20]
Luke Morrow
Yeah.
- [26:21]
Seth Payne
I kind of wanted to. People don't want to go to Stillwater. People want to go to Houston. You're right. You right, you're right. It was just different, like. And I could feel it even beforehand. Everybody like Houston.
- [26:32]
Luke Morrow
Yeah.
- [26:33]
Seth Payne
And something about me was just like, you know. Yeah, yeah. It's good to go, get away, lock in, focus on the game. And I wouldn't have been mad, but yeah, obviously I was so happy to go to Detroit, bro. And everybody was kind of like, why are you. You know, I love, I love Detroit for you, for the simple fact that
- [26:53]
Luke Morrow
it's a hard working city.
- [26:54]
Seth Payne
For one, the people there really grind. It's a lot of self made people there. And then the Detroit Pistons brand from back in the bad boy days, even the, the 04 pistons, I feel like you were the type of player to kind of, you know, bring that back together. I know it was a rough few,
- [27:11]
Luke Morrow
you know, first few years with losing
- [27:13]
Seth Payne
streak, different coaches, different front office. But I feel like now y' all kind of solidified. You know what I take offense to what. It's a hard working city. Like, I don't. I hate it when I hear people say that about a city. Like, okay, all right, just tell me that. Tell me the cities that aren't hardworking in America, like in a. Once you get outside of Florida, you're pretty much. They're all the same. There's lots of hardworking people everywhere. That's a hard working city. All right, cool. Great. That's a, that's a. That. That's where that's where people really feel most aligned with multimillionaire athletes, is where people are hardworking. Unlike those other cities where people aren't hardworking. This city, hard working people, let go of it. All right. I had some, you had some, some automobile plants back in the day. And somehow that puts the stamp on you as like, oh, yeah, we're the hardest working city.
- [28:07]
Luke Morrow
That's what I was going to say. Do you think people, when they say that, they really just mean, like, it's a blue collar city?
- [28:12]
Seth Payne
I Think that's what they think they mean? Yeah. I don't know. I think, I think some cities just get away with saying we're a hard working city. But don't you dare come for me before my get my, get my union foreman on the line. They tried to dance, they tried to come make me take my 30 minute break two minutes too early. Yeah.
- [28:31]
Luke Morrow
Which city, which city would you say is the least hardworking?
- [28:34]
Seth Payne
Orlando.
- [28:37]
Luke Morrow
You knew that one right away.
- [28:38]
Seth Payne
Orlando, possibly. Tampa. Miami. Miami. There's a lot more hustle and grind than people realize. But I would say that whole Central, just by virtue of Tampa, calling themselves South Florida, even though they're dead smack in the middle of the state latitudinally that, that, yeah, they're, they're, they're frauds over there in Tampa.
- [29:01]
Luke Morrow
That's true. That's a good one too.
- [29:03]
Seth Payne
So, yeah, the. When was this.
- [29:07]
Luke Morrow
So that conversation with Kate Cunningham was mid season this year. It was, I think, I think either December or January, I believe.
- [29:15]
Seth Payne
Yeah. I don't, I think with Durant, it's one of those things where it's, it's always open to discussion. I don't. When, when the Rockets got him, I think that, you know, any notion of like, oh yeah, he's going to finish his career here or anything like that. Nobody was even bothering talking about anything like that. It's going to be a year by year, whatever, whatever scenarios might evolve. I think there's always a potential for it. I just, it's just always easier said than done. Also, I mean, you look at what the, some of the things the Celtics have had to do basically to just, to just get themselves right. And the, the Brown trade seems to have been mostly about just the fact that they've just got all these salaries on, all this salary on the books that they've got to clear out if they want to genuinely have a deep team. Their, their, their hand was forced with that.
- [30:06]
Luke Morrow
Exactly. That's my thing, I think. Look, the Jalen Brown trade, I don't think it's a great return for the Celtics, but to your point, it gives them flexibility. They went out and they signed Mitchell Robinson right away who, he's not a star but he's a big guy. That's going to help you. He was just on the Knicks who won a championship and they still have you bring in Paul George who even though he's making a lot of money, they still have I think like 20 million left this offseason of the spend. So you can add a few other Pieces, too, where the Rockets. It feels like we're kind of our hands are tied. There's not really a big move to make because Durant is still that big move.
- [30:38]
Seth Payne
The big thing with the Celtics was They still have $190 million left on Jayson Tatum's deal. But, yeah, I don't. I think that you can never rule anything out with Durant. But just to say that there's interest or that, you know, he. He could envision himself playing somewhere else, I don't think that I. With him. I actually. It's weird. I feel like it's most possible with him, but I also read the least into anything he's saying because I don't think he's. I don't. I don't think it necessarily means as much. He's not going to be as careful about throwing something out there because he's just having these conversations in whichever state of mind he's in at the time.
- [31:19]
Luke Morrow
By the way, thank you for the clarification on the text line 713 says it's not a Detroit hat. It's Durant's brand Drip sold separately. So the D. The D is that like old English, whatever that logo is. The Tigers that, like, cursive D, it looks similar to the Detroit logo, the Tigers logo, but it's a D for Drip. And then that's where I was saying there's these other S. There's these S's on there on the hat. So that's the.
- [31:46]
Seth Payne
Sold separately and the S's. I mean, it looks a little bit like the. The Nazi SS insignia, which I don't. I don't know who advised him on that. Just, I guess doesn't carry as much automatic stigma as it used to. I guess somewhere along the way you might be like, hey, that looks a little bit like the SS logo. And I was like, oh, yeah, but it's not. So what are you gonna do?
- [32:09]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, it looks like a Detroit fan just adding it to. To their hat. So anyways, appreciate the clarification, but that became a thing yesterday where we get this report, then people dig up the audio at Kate Cunningham, and it's like, oh, look at his Instagram. He just posted a photo of him in a Detroit hat. Matt, maybe. Maybe he chose that style of. Of D for a reason. I don't know.
- [32:30]
Seth Payne
It's not. Nobody freak out. It's not a Detroit lie. Detroit Tigers hat. It is a Durant SS hat. That's. You don't have to. So nothing to see here.
- [32:43]
Luke Morrow
Not with the Hat, at least. But, yeah. So the Jalen Brown trade seemed crazy or, like, when you see the return or you think, like, this guy is an mvp. Why would they trade him away? So the Durant trade might seem crazy for some Rockets fans. Like, he was our best player last year. Why do we get rid of him? But that was. The connection that I was trying to make was like, well, the Celtics, obviously, it didn't seem like Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum were going to work together anymore. They don't seem to like each other. But the Celtics also figured, hey, we can get this guy off the books, bring in a few other pieces. And in today's day, we've had eight different champs in eight years with the new cba. It's about parody and turnover. We've saw the Knicks just won a championship where Jalen Brunson took less money so they could bring in other guys and didn't have the necessarily, like the big stars, like a Durant or Jalen Brown Tatum combination. And so I just think today more than ever, that flexibility is important in the NBA. And when we talk about the Rockets being unable to do, like, why aren't they doing anything this offseason? They don't really have the finances to be able to pull it off.
- [33:45]
Seth Payne
Optionality is the word that GMs like to use. They like to have optionality. And they don't have the optionality right this moment.
- [33:53]
Luke Morrow
No, they don't. Now, you move Durant, you might have that. I don't know if it's realistic. I don't know if it would ever happen. But we did at least get a report that Durant is interested in playing. Although, you know, the interested stuff's always. It's like, you know, you ask your buddy, he'd be interested in dating Sophia Vergara. But it doesn't mean it's going to happen or that he has any chance of it occurring.
- [34:11]
Seth Payne
Yeah, that's. That's part of growing old, is you realize there's many things you're interested in. You can't. You can't pursue all of them. Yeah. Like, has interest in playing for the. I. Yeah. It just. It feels so much like one of those manufactured reports of where a guy heard from a guy who talked to Durant who said that, yeah, sure, that'd be cool. Expressed interest. Did he? Yeah, right, exactly.
- [34:35]
Luke Morrow
Somebody on the text I said, was Durant on that audio? He was. He was the second voice talking with Kate Cunningham from the boardroom podcast earlier this year. Uh, coming up, time for headlines we'll get you caught up on everything going on, including usa. We're done in the World cup. The national team lost last night, really an embarrassing fashion. We'll talk about it next. Pain and Pendergast,
- [34:56]
Seth Payne
Payne and Pendergast with today's headlines, powered by Men's Tea Clinic.
- [35:05]
Luke Morrow
Let's get you caught up on everything going on here on Paine and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow, in for Sean alongside Seth Payne. You can always text the show 713-572-4610. Get to us in the YouTube and Twitch chats as well. Astros lost the opener in D.C. last night to the Nationals 12 to 11. Old School Shootout. They were up 6 to 1 and then allowed 11 unanswered runs. And Mike Burrows, congratulations. You became the, well, at least a pitcher that was part of the 25th time. I don't know if it's the 25th different pitcher, but 25th time in Astros history where a pitcher has allowed at least 10 runs in a game.
- [35:45]
Seth Payne
Yeah, that's, that's pretty impressive. I, that, I mean, he already. You, you recited it earlier. The how close he is to the league lead in so many things like home runs allowed and such and leading it in a bad, bad way, but also being just, just the 25th time in Astros history to be charged with 10 runs. Only seven earned, but 10 charged. Good for you. Yeah, that's a. But. But bad luck, right? Yeah. We're going to cite bad luck afterwards. Yeah. When you, you know what, when you let up that much hard contact, when half the hits you allow are hard contact hits, there's going to be some bad luck involved. It's amazing how unlucky I get, the worse I, the worst I actually perform.
- [36:27]
Luke Morrow
It's true. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, he's allowed the third most homers in the league. But as I said earlier, the league leader is a pitcher on the A's pitching in that minor league ballpark. So, you know, that doesn't really count. And then he has the most losses in the league now. He has allowed the most earned runs in the league and he has the second worst ERA amongst pitchers who qualify.
- [36:51]
Seth Payne
So that's a, it's an impressive resume as of right now. Just gotta wait and see things balance out. Right. That's. No, he's excited. Like whenever people want to cite luck or anything, he's still a bad pitcher by expected era. He's at a 4.6 era or so. He eats innings up, but he just does it poorly. I feel you might as well just. You might as well throw Jake Myers out there to call Jake Myers back up the pitch and let him eat innings.
- [37:14]
Luke Morrow
Someone on the text line said, I don't blame Burroughs anymore. I blame a Spada. Almost like, you know, if you put a kid, a young kid behind the wheel and they crash the car, you have to blame the parent. It's hard to blame the kid.
- [37:27]
Seth Payne
Right.
- [37:27]
Luke Morrow
It's almost like that case of, like, hey, we just. You keep running them out there. What do you expect?
- [37:32]
Seth Payne
Yeah, I mean, to his credit, he just, he keeps going out there and working on his arm slotting and all this other stuff that's supposed to be the culprit, but it's, It's. It's really. It's a lot easier for me to get amped up or intrigued by imai's possibilities because you see that it's there and that, you know, also, he is, you know, he has whatever excuses or explanations you want to make for him in adjusting to American baseball, but it's, It's. I'm not feeling all that awesome about him either. We'll talk. We'll talk tomorrow morning about Imai.
- [38:04]
Luke Morrow
Yeah.
- [38:04]
Seth Payne
And see if he makes it out of the second inning tonight.
- [38:06]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, we'll see how he does. Which reminds me of this other text that came in where somebody says, when do we start calling for Dana Brown's job and blame him for the job he's done. I've been doing it for months. I don't know about everybody else. I thought we were already on that train. And last night. We'll see about IME tonight, but those are the latest examples. Lo Profito is in AAA right now. So these are just the latest examples of things that, at least to this point, haven't worked out yet.
- [38:29]
Seth Payne
Dana Brown, and as somebody pointed out to us on the show afterwards, yesterday, at the time when the Astros were playing the Blue Jays, Sanchez, you know, who they traded for low profito, had had a better season, but then he's plummeted since then, apparently. So, like, it's you. They cleared salary by trading Sanchez for low profito. You could argue that. Just the thought that Sanchez was going to do anything for you last year when you brought him in was the original sin and all of that. So I can't. I can't really give Dana Brown credit for clearing salary that he had added to the roster originally with a bad. With a bad pickup. That's the whole. The whole Sanchez lo Profito fiasco is there's Nothing in it that tells me, oh yeah, Dana Brown definitely knows what he's doing.
- [39:14]
Luke Morrow
I won't give the Astros credit for saving 6 million because I've always said they should not be operating like a team that needs to save $6 million. Like you're the Tampa Bay Rays or whoever, the Milwaukee Brewers. And also if you are going to save that money, quote unquote, save it. Like reinvest it and reinvest it. And I don't think they've done that to this point. But yeah, it depends. It's choose your stat. Jesus. Sanchez right now is a negative war, but his ops is.753 and his ops plus is 104. So you know, I think at least
- [39:44]
Seth Payne
provides something for you at the plate, right?
- [39:46]
Luke Morrow
At least offensively he's having an above average year compared to Low Profita who's in Triple A right now. So the Astros lose last night. 12:11. He may on the mound tonight. 545. First pitch against the Nationals. Once again, hey us, we got knocked out. Our World cup run is over. I was reminded of Rob Schneider in the water. Boy, like oh no, we suck again. Because the US lost 4 to 1 to Belgium last night and it wasn't even as close as that score would indicate. I'm not a huge soccer guy, but boy, was that an embarrassing performance for the U.S. honestly, I thought my armchair quarterback sitting on the couch watching, watching the game. And again, not a big soccer guy. Just looked like the moment was too big. They allowed one of the most embarrassing goals I've ever seen. They just, they played lousy.
- [40:28]
Seth Payne
I know very little about Christian Pulisic other than that when I watch him and especially last night, he, he looks like the embodiment and the stereotype of soccer players in America. We're like, oh, what's this kid? His dad own a car dealership or something? Looks like he's just out there doing it. Whatever. Probably, probably smells like cologne by the end of the match. Still is not doing it for me. He's pulling a James Harden in this thing, just turning the ball over in the playoffs at critical moments. And I just, it's really, really hard for me to, to feel good about any of that.
- [41:01]
Luke Morrow
I'm with you. Look these again, average soccer guy. But I've heard so much about his name. I've heard so much about him. And I watch the World cup and I see other countries stars are doing their part and having big performances. And then when I watch her pay attention to the U.S. i don't hear a whole lot. I know he dealt with some injury stuff earlier, but if you're out there, you should be good enough. And it was just a very. Seemed like a very underwhelming entire tournament for this supposed. Like Captain America, as they call him in this star. Yeah, I didn't see it. So I don't know. I don't know what all the buzz is about. I'm not a big soccer guy, but I was unimpressed with what I saw the last few weeks.
- [41:37]
Seth Payne
It's. I mean, we're going on, you know, World cup after World cup after World cup of getting eliminated in the round of 16. Soccer has surged in popularity over the past few decades, ever since the World cup in the 90s, especially. And yet, I mean, there's just. There's always this feeling of, man, you're going up against these tiny countries whose kids have been playing soccer in their living rooms, on the streets, at school, like, every chance they get. They're born with a. Basically a soccer attached to their foot, a soccer ball attached to their foot. And that when you throw a bunch of Americans together for a short period of time, it's just hard to. It's hard to have that same kind of chemistry and innate feel for the game, especially when it's like little fancy lads like Pulisic out there just lazing around, happy to, like, oh, my. But now my ankles hurt. Some Hershey PA that pisses me off in its own right.
- [42:32]
Luke Morrow
Soft chocolates. That's a. That's a. That's a can. Chocolate Candy town. They're soft over there.
- [42:38]
Seth Payne
Yeah. Hershey's bar is barely chocolate. Yeah, that's true. That's true. It's barely chocolate. It's like the minimum level of actual cocoa allowed to call it chocolate, you
- [42:49]
Luke Morrow
know, Look, I love peanut M&Ms, but I also love regular M&Ms. You know, you have a problem when your product upgrades by adding, like, nuts to it when it's supposed to be a chocolate, like a chocolatey dessert. That might be a hot take, but I think the Hershey with almonds is better because the normal Hershey's is just so underwhelming, by the way. Yeah.
- [43:08]
Seth Payne
So the.
- [43:09]
Luke Morrow
The. The World cup run is over. I did love this headline, that the loudest cheer last night was when Eddie Vedder was shown on the video board chugging a beer.
- [43:17]
Seth Payne
Yeah. In the second half, especially after the crowd went silent. And. Yeah, Eddie Vedder chugged a beer in the second half and Lumen Field went nuts.
- [43:25]
Luke Morrow
That's right.
- [43:25]
Seth Payne
So Good for you, Seattle.
- [43:27]
Luke Morrow
That's my guy. And lastly here, you know, it's like, headlines. We need some headlines. Let me go look at ESPN to see what's going on in the world. Oh, okay. Chris Johnson has als. Calais Campbell's mother was killed with the brother being charged with. Tarryon Arnold clears waivers while awaiting what,
- [43:46]
Seth Payne
like a trial charges or trial or whatever the next step in the process was.
- [43:49]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. Former Titan scout found guilty of murder. Okay. Things seem to be great in the NFL this summer.
- [43:55]
Seth Payne
Travis Kelsey married Taylor Swift. And apparently they'd already been married, at least according to some reports. Oh, wow. Ceremony for ceremony's sake. And then. And then still. This was still in the headlines as of 4am this morning. Brendan Sorsby not suing the NFL. That's still in the headlines. It feels. Does that not feel like it was months ago that we found that Brendan Sorsby wasn't suing the NFL?
- [44:18]
Luke Morrow
Right.
- [44:18]
Seth Payne
It was actually like five days ago. But it's that. Those are your. Your NFL headlines right now.
- [44:24]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. We need training camp to come back. That's what somebody said in other countries when they get eliminated from the World Cup. They think like, oh, no, our lives are over. In the US we say training camps right around the corner.
- [44:35]
Seth Payne
So, yeah, this is a pleasant diversion for a little while.
- [44:37]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, exactly.
- [44:38]
Seth Payne
Everybody be nice to the World cup visitors while they're still. There's still an going on.
- [44:42]
Luke Morrow
That's right. Speaking of events going like, Sourceby has nothing going on. I don't know if this is the best thing for him. He can't play football for the next year and he supposedly has a gambling addiction. I don't know if that's ideal for him to now just sit around with no distractions and try to lay off DraftKings and FanDuel.
- [44:58]
Seth Payne
That's a really good. You know what? And we'll play some audio later of Jason McCourty talking about Brandon Iuk. And he makes a really good point about basically, man, IUK seems like the last guy that needs to be just sitting around with idle time on his hands.
- [45:14]
Luke Morrow
Exactly. Just like Sorsby. Those are your headlines here on this Tuesday. Coming up is CJ Stroud just simply still too young? We'll talk about that next Pain and pender gas.
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Luke Morrow
York, Pacific Life and Annuity, Phoenix, Arizona. Is CJ Stroud just simply still too young? It's Payne and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow, in for Sean alongside Seth Payne. You can always join the conversation 713-572-4610 or get to us in the YouTube and Twitch chats. By the way, Seth, we were talking yesterday about that Taylor Swift Travis Kelsey wedding and we were wondering do. Do we know anybody that was there? Oh yeah, I don't know if you saw I saw the photo yet last yeah, I think it was last night. Ross Tucker posted a photo of him and his wife. Supposedly Ross Tucker was at the wedding.
- [47:59]
Seth Payne
Ross Tucker was at the Travis Kelsey. Oh my God. You know what? He's a big swifty. That was one of the most. He got a lot of. He, he posted once emphatically that Taylor Swift was. I know, it's like a better, a better pop artist than Michael Jackson or something crazy. Something crazy. That was gonna elicit a huge response. And he got millions, millions of views on that one. It's like 99% negative. But yeah, I think he's, he's relatively a swifty by. At least by middle aged man standards.
- [48:33]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. So it's funny. He, he got the invite so we, we know somebody that was there might have to get the dirt. And by the way, I love Ross. Great guy. He joins you guys each week during the football season. I think he's really good at what he does, all that sort of stuff. But if you go and look at the photo online, he's doing the classic black suit with sneakers look.
- [48:51]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [48:52]
Luke Morrow
I gotta be honest. I don't know where you are, Seth. I think it's a terrible look for anybody. Not just. I'm not singling out Ross Tucker.
- [48:58]
Seth Payne
They're, they're. Looks like they're black and white Jordans at least.
- [49:01]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, at least they're Jordans. They're not like Skechers. But I think the sneakers with the suit look is terrible. I think when Jay Billis does it, I think when Ernie Johnson does it, I think it looks terrible. And I think they also just kind of look like corny or trying to be hip hop. I think it's a lousy look that we'll look back on years from now and think, like, why do people think wearing sneakers with a suit looked good?
- [49:24]
Seth Payne
I think it's here to stay, I think. I think for the most part a lot of people making that decision aren't worried about whether it looks good or not. They just like, if I'm gonna be spending a lot of time on my feet, I'm gonna wear sneakers and to hell with you. That's. I give my, I give him a pass on that. The only thing that keeps me from wearing sneakers with suits more often is that I don't keep my sneakers clean. So my, the shoes, you know, I wear them once or twice a year and I know they're. They're not gonna look dirty.
- [49:50]
Luke Morrow
Right. So are you a sneakers and suit guy?
- [49:55]
Seth Payne
If that's all I like. If I don't, I try not to be, but I don't worry about it. Sometimes I just don't want to pack shoes.
- [50:01]
Luke Morrow
Right.
- [50:02]
Seth Payne
So then I'LL do it. So I don't know if I'm a sneaker. I've been, yeah, I will wear sneakers with a suit. I would prefer not to, but it doesn't bother me when I, when I do it.
- [50:10]
Luke Morrow
Gotcha. I probably should have asked that first before.
- [50:12]
Seth Payne
Oh no, no, no. That's all right. I don't know because I think though that was, that's one of the things, the fashion, the fashion minded people always crush sports anchors for that and everything. And, and I'm like, man, just getting these guys to wear suits at all is a victory. Yeah. So why don't, don't, don't hold your standards so high. Luke Morrow, fashionista West, you living. That's right, fancy lad.
- [50:34]
Luke Morrow
And look, I'm somebody who, I show up here every day in shorts and a T shirt and I wear a hat every day.
- [50:39]
Seth Payne
But your hat's facing forward.
- [50:40]
Luke Morrow
That now that I'm talking about fashion here, I had to turn it around. But I can clean up okay. And I don't do the sneakers with suits. I think it looks silly, but nonetheless. Hopefully Ross Tucker had fun at the wedding. Is CJ Stroud simply just still too young? Which sounds kind of silly or sounds like excuse making, but I thought this was really interesting. The athletic put together a breakdown of by position the ages of players in the league. And they looked at like where do players peak? And then where does the drop off begin? And again by position, the sad thing and Seth, obviously you lived this life as an NFL player and you had a long career. But the sad thing when you look at this graph and you listeners can go find it on the athletics website. But the sad thing is like the peak for quarterbacks seems to be age 24, running back 24, wide receiver 23, tight end 24. You know, it's just, it's, it's a young man's game, so to speak. And then when you look at these graphs, there's not a lot of guys in their 30s that are having the long careers.
- [51:46]
Seth Payne
Well but yeah, and I think though, but then where they go on to explain it, which is more encouraging, is that okay, these average ages of players, it's always heavily weighted by guys who are just no good at all. That's, you know, and only play a couple years in the NFL. So like the average, you know, the average, the average career of an NFL playing player being three and a half years, that's what they cited forever. It's, it's a bit misleading because it's really weighed down by Guys that, you know, get a shot their rookie year in their second year and then they're washed out of the league. Whereas the guys that are actually good players and the guys that make the most impact at quarterback tend to do it around the ages from 29 to 31. So that's the part that like in with all of the skill position players in the offensive linemen that they do in this article. That's where I was actually happy that you sent this to us, to me, because it's a little bit of a reminder that man, sometimes you get bogged down when you trade for sign a veteran free agent that ah, he's over the hill. Like ah, not really. The good players, the good players tend to age, age pretty well into their late 20s, early 30s.
- [52:51]
Luke Morrow
Right. So that's where I want to get to. Where how does this relate to CJ Stroud specifically? Well, as you just said, they, they not only crunch the numbers of the ages of these players to see just simply what's the prime age for different position groups in the NFL, but then they also looked at average value for each position. And like you said, that peak, that prime for a quarterback is not until they turn 29 years old. The most successful years or the best value for quarterbacks have been from 29 to 33. But where the numbers start to turn red, where that quarterback is actually adding substantial value to their team isn't until they turn 25 years old and Stroud is still 24. So obviously nowadays in society we lose. We've lost all patience. Especially in sports, we don't have patience.
- [53:42]
Seth Payne
Yeah. And I think that that's where the things have kind of stabilized a little bit though is this dream that people love to have of hey, you got to win a, win a Super bowl while your quarterback's on his rookie contract. I think it's so enticing that people fall in love with the notion without realizing how rare it is for a quarterback to win a Super bowl on his rookie contract or while he's still a young quarterback. That it? If you take Mahomes and Brady out of it, you're, you're, you know, because those two guys were just slam dunk, okay, really special situations and scenarios you're left with. What Roethlisberger is the one guy that's won a quarterback at a young age like that. Russell Wilson was, Russell Wilson wasn't young. He was on his rookie rookie contract. But because he had played baseball, he was a little bit older than most.
- [54:29]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, the only three quarterbacks like you said under 25 to have win. Brady Mahomes, the two greatest of all time. And by the way, when Brady was doing it, he was also passing for like 180 yards a game, whatever it was at that point. And then Roethlisberger, like you said, but again, same idea. Roethlisberger averaged about 195 passing yards per game when he won the super bowl and had, I think 17 touchdown passes that year. Different time, of course, different era. An era you played in, Seth. But. But that was a team, a Steelers team that they were a very good defensive team. And Roethlisberger as a young quarterback was more of that game manager. Don't screw it up. Those are the only three quarterbacks to win a Super bowl before turning 25, which has now become the expectation for all these guys like Stroud, where Stroud isn't even 25 yet. But we feel like it's a disappointment that he hasn't at least gotten to a Super Bowl.
- [55:18]
Seth Payne
And I think even if you include Russell Wilson in that, who I think was 25 when he won the Super Bowl, I think was those guys. None of those guys were the quarterbacks they would become. And it's not as simple as just saying, oh, yeah, Russell Wilson plopped onto some other team, was going to win a Super Bowl. He had that defense, he had Marshawn lynch, he had all those things. So I, I think that's where the pendulum is swung back. And white teams aren't as eager to just say, oh, it's. It's our quarterback, and he's in his. He's. He just finished his third year. We got to give him a huge contract because where are you going to find a quarterback? Well, it turns out that guys like, for one, I mean, if you look at veterans who are already proven in the league, but that you can go out and get a Matt Stafford or you can get a Tom Brady, that's one thing. But then the Sam Darnolds, the Geno Smiths, the other guys that were relative late bloomers. You can see where, man, being in an imperfect situation earlier in your career really makes it hard to judge whether what a guy is as a quarterback, the Eli Manning, I think is a guy that maybe back in an era when they had more patience with guys, I, you know, like Eli Manning was afforded a lot of patience in his first couple of years where he really wasn't playing very impressive football. Like, I feel like in this day and age, he might have been run out of town by. After his second year except that his last name is Manning. So they're going to keep giving you the benefit of the doubt as long as your last name's Manning.
- [56:46]
Luke Morrow
Right?
- [56:47]
Seth Payne
Yeah, with good reason. Like, even if the reasoning is wrong, it ends up working out.
- [56:52]
Luke Morrow
Shoot things. When was, which year, which season was it when Peyton finally turned things around?
- [56:56]
Seth Payne
Because I feel like today he was already. He was really good in the regular season. Very early. It was put in the playoffs. He was atrocious.
- [57:03]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, that's fair.
- [57:04]
Seth Payne
He just, he was like, that was the label on him. Was that okay, he's a regular season quarterback. There was a little bit of a like a James Harden type dynamic going on with him early in his career.
- [57:15]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, yeah, that's fair. But yeah. So Stroud, and to your point? Well, yeah, let me go in this direction first, because to your point, people point to like Sam Darnold. Like you said, we look at the Seahawks last year and think like, man, if Sam Darnold could turn things around, why can't stroud? Well, darnold's 28. We point to Daniel Jones, who seemed to revitalize his career in Indianapolis last year, also 28. Baker Mayfield's another example of that guy that really turned things around once he got to Tampa and made his first Pro bowl. He was also 28. So it goes back to the point the athletic was making of these guys. These quarterbacks don't hit their prime, their peak until they're almost 30 years old. Stroud is 24. He's the fifth youngest starting quarterback in the league still.
- [57:58]
Seth Payne
Yeah, that like Eli Manning, if you go to the 2007, which was a pretty good year for the giants, he was 26 years old. He was in his fourth year in the NFL and he threw 23 touchdowns, 20 interceptions, quarterback rating of 73.9. And that was the year when everything really turned around for the Giants. And yet he still, he would go on to have much better numbers than that in his career. But he'd been, he'd been a pretty mediocre quarterback. Is it dynamic he would have better numbers than that? He still doesn't have any. He doesn't have an impressive resume like in the regular season as a quarterback. It's the fact that he's talked about as a potential hall of Famer is based exclusively on those two super bowl for sure.
- [58:48]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, he's. He led the league in interceptions three times and they were never like back to back years. Like, he did it when he was 26, he did it when he was 29. He did it when he was 32, like every three years he would just lead the league in interceptions. He never got that out of him.
- [59:01]
Seth Payne
Imagine if C.J. stroud. And it's not even that much different of an era. But yeah, in 2013, if C.J. like maybe if, if this year Eli. C.J. had Eli's 2013 year. 18 touchdowns, 27.
- [59:15]
Luke Morrow
Oh my goodness. And then Eli still went on to start like another decade or whatever after that.
- [59:21]
Seth Payne
Yeah, he would go on to play through 2019. Incredible. Before he was benched.
- [59:25]
Luke Morrow
That's a brutal season. 27 interceptions to 18 touchdowns. Yeah, let's hope something like that doesn't come here. But yeah, I was looking into it and again it sounds like. I said it sounds like excuse making and whatnot. We saw what Stroud could do his first year and we've seen these other quarterbacks seem to pop pretty. Or some guys seem to pop right away like a Mahomes or whatever. Even the Josh Allen early on was pretty good. Still hasn't made, you know, still hasn't made it to a Super Bowl. But when you look at the 10 youngest quarterbacks in the league last year, excluding C.J. stroud, those 10 quarterbacks combined for four playoff wins. And only one was from somebody not Drake. May I phrase that terribly, but Drake May had three of those playoff wins on his way to the super bowl. And we know he didn't have a great playoff run. And then Caleb Williams had the other win. Those are the only of the bottom 10 quarterbacks in age last year to have any sort of playoff victories. My point being like, it's. Our patience might be too thin, our expectations might be too high, where it's still really tough for these young quarterbacks to have the ultimate success.
- [60:29]
Seth Payne
It's the hardest thing in the world though, to, to, to just believe in that as a fan. Because the fact of the matter is that most quarterbacks who are mediocre in their first few seasons remain mediocre quarterbacks or bad or they don't continue to get the chance that that chance. And even quarterbacks that are promising in their first few seasons, you know, there's only so many good quarterbacks at any given time. Bona fide, really genuinely good quarterbacks at any time. So it's just hard to have that. It's hard for some people. Some people are dyed, you know, dyed in the wool they'll build, ride with CJ until they die, no matter what. But just pointing out the, the few that actually make it doesn't mean that. Yeah, everybody who struggles in their second and third season or just put up mediocre results, end up turning a corner at some point. The majority just never actually turn the corner.
- [61:24]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, yeah, it's true. By the way, in case you're curious and you can go find this online, I found it interesting. We obviously have focus on the quarterback position, but the athletic also looked at what age does each position group, you know, hit their highest value. And so as quarterback, like we said, it's 29 to 33. Running back is right away 21 years old. They're in the red, which means high average value. And then they really fall off once they get to 32, which of course, we all figured. Wide receiver, their. Their prime range is from 29 to 31. Tight end, surprisingly the highest value. And maybe this is bolstered by like a Travis Kelsey or something, you know, just a couple of guys, Tony Gonzalez, but they have it at 33 to 35 is the highest value for tight ends.
- [62:13]
Seth Payne
You know, what's funny is that, yeah, I think that a few guys there, including how far. I don't know how far back they went in this, but even Gronk at his age, like when he clearly wasn't the same guy physically, the being a big target, being savvy, especially in the red zone and all of those things that, that, that kind of factor into it if you're paired with the right quarterback. They. They, like tight ends, aren't penalized as much by losing a step or two. I think in their overall athleticism, like their, their savviness pays off as much as their actual athletic traits by that point. And then offensive line is like, I think. I can't remember you mentioned it yet if you're going there. But yeah, offensive linemen are by far like the most impressive in terms of guys just playing the impact. Guys being 29, 30, 31 years old, they have a lot of value still.
- [63:06]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, offensive tackle and center, they still have the high value up to 37 years old. So those guys can. Can play for a long time.
- [63:15]
Seth Payne
Which is a little bit of a survivor bias there though, too. Just because some of the guys, like, yeah, the guys that are the only guys that are still playing at that age tend to also be really good. So like Whitworth or, you know, Trent Williams got guys like that, that. That probably weights it a little bit more than what's accurate for most guys.
- [63:35]
Luke Morrow
That's a good point, by the way, for the center position, you don't start hitting red, which again, for the purposes of this Exercise, you want to be as red as possible. That's your highest value. That's the way the athletic did it for these charts, if that makes sense. And for centers that doesn't come till 30 years old. And we're talking, of course, about a Texans team that might be starting a rookie center this year. So, you know, we'll see what that means for the offensive line.
- [63:59]
Seth Payne
Yeah, that's, it's. But at the same time, you never want to have an offensive line. That's, that's all old guys.
- [64:06]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, true.
- [64:07]
Seth Payne
There's got to be some balancing there. There's an old rule of 150, which is if you're, if you're starting offensive line averages, if their ages add up to 150 or more, you're headed for disaster. So that's where I think a little bit of that survivor bias comes in. Where. Yeah, like some of the, the guys that continue to play well into their 30s tend to also be really good offensive linemen. A lot of the other guys are getting rolled out because why, why do I have this 32 year old injury waiting to happen on my offensive line? Screw this guy. He's out of here. Go be a backup somewhere.
- [64:36]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, that's. I actually have never heard that, but I like that idea of the 150. That's, that's an interesting number philosophy. By the way, did you see in this, which position group has on average the longest career in NFL history?
- [64:52]
Seth Payne
Is it kickers?
- [64:54]
Luke Morrow
Oh, that would be a good one. I actually don't think they included kickers, to be honest with you. I didn't see it on the list, but it's, it's defensive tackles.
- [65:02]
Seth Payne
Oh, really?
- [65:02]
Luke Morrow
Yeah.
- [65:03]
Seth Payne
Huh. And so I feel like kind of a bum for being sold out at 32.
- [65:08]
Luke Morrow
Oh, yeah, I was going to say. I don't mean it as a backhanded compliment, but I think you chose the right position if you wanted, if somebody wants to have a lengthy NFL career. Historically, defensive tackles stick around the longest.
- [65:18]
Seth Payne
There were 17 guys. I, you know, again, the, I think some of the outliers end up beefing it up more because they, what they did was the guys, the people who had at least 10 seasons, played at least 400 snaps in 2025 with PFF grades of at least 60. So they're viable defensive tackles. There were 17 defensive tackles that met that. Those criteria last year. I feel like the Texans probably help for. Depending on what they. I've seen Danico Autry classified as a defensive tackle on some depth charts, so maybe they included him there. But yeah, I think part of that is that because defensive lines rotate, you know, and that's, that's pretty much the standard, not the exception these days that there are a lot of 30 year old guys that are, you know, they're backups but they're playing a lot in a rotation and it's a nice, it's a nice semi retirement you can have when you're a 34 year old defensive tackle that plays like 20 or 25 snaps a game.
- [66:16]
Luke Morrow
That's true. That's a good point. It's like Pat Williams played until he was like, I think like almost 40 because he was just a, you know, run stuffer that played half the game, if that. Yeah, they just brought him in on running down. So. Yeah, so you mentioned the 17 defensive tackles. Zero cornerbacks fit that criteria. Last year of a veteran of 10 plus seasons, played at least 400 snaps, had a grade of at least 60. Pro Football Focus, I was surprised. Zero cornerbacks. So that's obviously quarterbacks.
- [66:42]
Seth Payne
But that's, that's a position where it does like the, the traits are so important, the high end physical traits that a lot of times those guys just fall off cliff all of a sudden. They're awesome, they're awesome, they're awesome. And then boom, you lose that half a step and it just, you can't make up for it with savvy the way you can in some of the other positions.
- [67:02]
Luke Morrow
So you can find it all on the athletic. Again, sounds like a cop out. Sounds like an easy excuse. But are we forgetting the fact that hey, maybe C.J. shroud is just still simply too young. Quarterbacks historically don't reach that prime until their late twenties. You look at the reclamation projects, Darnold, Geno, Smith, Baker, Daniel Jones, they're all in their late 20s. Meanwhile, you know, not a lot of quarterbacks are actually winning Super Bowls this young.
- [67:27]
Seth Payne
But this is where if the Texans don't indeed end up extending CJ Stroud and there's like, it doesn't really feel right this moment like they're going to extend him. I think that this is where two things can be true. Like you can think that your quarterback just needs more time to work it out, but that doesn't mean that you also have to extend his contract while you're waiting for him to work it out. And it just, it became way too much of the standard thinking that, oh, okay, quarterback who still has a lot of promise and we don't know what his upside is after his third year. Oh, we better lock him in, because what if, what if he ends up being really awesome and we have to pay him more money? Okay, cool. That's a nice problem to have. Like having to pay him a bunch of money when it doesn't end up working out for him eventually, that's a much worse problem to have been, oh, we've got to pay our, our awesome quarterback an extra $10 million a year now. Like one of those you can work with. The other one makes you, A, lose your job as a general manager, and B, the organization has to start from scratch again.
- [68:29]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's a good point that we can make this argument on both sides, like you said. I mean, we can say it's why we should wait on CJ Stroud or cut him some slack, but then also why the Texans would want to wait to get more information or just wait in general on the quarterback to still see him grow.
- [68:46]
Seth Payne
Yeah, the problem is that it's like he's not an index fund. You know, if you've got an index fund, you can say, look, look, over time, let's just give it, give it 10 years and you're going to be just fine. Don't worry about what's going on right now. The problem with quarterbacks is that you've got to, you've got to sell them completely and buy a new fund. And it's just the, the law of averages doesn't work out that way. So it's really hard to just say, well, stick with this quarterback for 10 years. He just needs time and patience. There comes a point where, and this is where the people in the organization hopefully have a better feel for things than anything we can see on the outside. Just based on how CJ Operates in the building. What is, what's his process in coming back from bad losses? How is he actually executing the offense? Those are the things you can get a good feel for over the course of four years that maybe give them a much better feel at the end of this season about whether, like, all right, yep, we're full bore in on CJ or, you know what, we got to start maybe thinking about some alternative plans.
- [69:45]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. And I'm the type that in my life, I like to gain. Maybe it's, maybe it's a problem. Maybe I need to be a better decision maker, but I like to gain as much information as I can before I make a decision. So if you don't have to pay the guy just yet, let's give it another year and see what else we can gain before we make that decision. And as you said, I have no problem paying a peace of mind tax that if I'm gonna have to pay more for him a year from now than now, but I feel a lot better about him a year from now. That's fine with me. I feel a lot more comfortable than just simply making a payment because I have to make a payment or just to try to save me money, you know, down the road.
- [70:21]
Seth Payne
Nick Casario is a big fan of Morgan Housel guy that writes books about money, financial management and all of that. And in one of the books, I don't know if it was Psychology of Money or one of these, but one of the big points is that in talking about people who are rich and then go broke, you know, people that got their money just through business, they're smart and everything, but when they don't, when the mistake they make is often just not planning to avoid catastrophe. So that, like, in any amount of aggressive moves or whatever, you always have to be asking yourself, okay, wait a second. Is the downside of this. Is the downside of this plan just economic ruin? And, and be aware that that's more potential than it probably feels like. It's more probable than it feels like at any given point. So in paying a quarterback after his third season, you look at the benefit would be, oh, okay, we could lock him in at a reduced rate for a long time. Okay, cool. That's nice to have. What's the downside? Oh, economic catastrophe. We've got a situation like the Dolphins or you've got the Cardinals, and we're going to have to start from scratch all over. I feel like the risk benefit there is. I'm way more scared of the catastrophe of paying a quarterback that you're not 100% sure about and everything that that entails. More so than I am paying a little bit extra for a quarterback once he gets paid, and paying him an amount that other teams in the league are going to have to pay for their quarterbacks too. It's not like it's a. It's not like something that other teams don't have to deal with and that they end up succeeding, you know, by working through. I would, I'm. I'm all about avoiding the catastrophe in a situation like this.
- [72:01]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, I'm with you 100%, which is why, honestly, I, I'm. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. But if we really boil down to it, like you just laid out, I don't get the outrage or the big conversation about, like, how have they not paid the guy yet? Because this isn't the final decision. You don't have to make the call just now. We still have time. And ideally, you want to get as much information as you can before you make such a big decision like that.
- [72:25]
Seth Payne
I think that's the word. I think sometimes I think people mix up the conversations. And I think it was Brandon Scott that first laid this out earlier this year when he just said, you know, there's two conversations about. There are two conversations about C.J. stroud. On the one hand is, okay, should you extend him? That's a different conversation than all right, is he a functioning starter in the NFL? What is his ceiling? All of that. That. It's. It's okay. It's. It's possible and okay to say, all right, I think CJ's got a lot of upside and I think we, you know, even if you have confidence that he's going to be good, that's not the same conversation as you got to pay him this year. And the. And I do. I think a lot of teams that are really eager to sign that quarterback, if anything, it's a sign of weakness in their organization more so than it is a statement about the quarterback himself.
- [73:17]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, 100%. I've said the same thing. I believe in congruent arguments. So I. Look, I don't think the Texans should pay CJ Stroud just yet. Doesn't mean I think CJ Stroud is terrible and shouldn't be the starting quarterback. So there is that middle ground. You can be in both. It's like, what were those?
- [73:34]
Seth Payne
The Venn diagram.
- [73:35]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. Is it the Venn diagram with the two overlapping circles?
- [73:37]
Seth Payne
Yeah, yeah.
- [73:38]
Luke Morrow
And I'm in the middle. I, you know, don't pay him, but he's also not terrible yet. That or just terrible in general. So, yeah, you can exist there. And I agree, I agree with that sentiment from. From B. Scott. I said the same thing that, you know, we can have different conversations on this whole thing. Um, by the way, I just looked at the text line. Somebody said needed some hate and ask Luke this a.m. let's go. In regard to the whole suits conversation, we actually got a lot of feedback on that. Whatever that.
- [74:04]
Seth Payne
Yeah. I bet people were pretty split about the sneakers with suits thing, huh?
- [74:07]
Luke Morrow
Yes, a lot of feedback. One texture said the worst look ever are these suits that look under sized and have high waters and short sleeves. I've come around on the high waters on the suits.
- [74:19]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [74:20]
Luke Morrow
But admittedly, I hate this other fashion statement. Now, where people wear. Not loafers, not like slip ons, but they'll wear dress shoes without any socks.
- [74:29]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [74:29]
Luke Morrow
And then they wear the high waters. I don't like that look. To me, it's too much male ankle. I don't like it. Either wear socks or longer pants.
- [74:37]
Seth Payne
You know what I really don't like are these dainty little loafers that some guys wear with shorts in the summer.
- [74:44]
Luke Morrow
Like.
- [74:44]
Seth Payne
Like with no socks there, where it's almost like I. They're like tiny little loafers that are nice shoes, and they're wearing them with, like, golf pants and a golf shirt.
- [74:54]
Luke Morrow
Like the outsiders. Like the boat shoes.
- [74:56]
Seth Payne
No, they're not boat shoes. They're dainty. I don't know what the hell they are, but they're dainty shoes. And it's just. It's way too. It's just way too. It's way too middle class a look for me. Like. Like, like it just. It feels like you're trying to. Or upper middle class, like, whatever. Like you're just. You're trying too hard to look fancy in casual clothes. I don't like that.
- [75:20]
Luke Morrow
I get that. Somebody said, we. We got to get Luke some Concord 11s. He'll change his mind then. Admittedly, I don't know what Concord 11s are.
- [75:27]
Seth Payne
I'm gonna have to Google those dainty little loafers. I googled it. And I got these classic breathable lace loafers up. That's why I don't. They're dainty little loafers.
- [75:36]
Luke Morrow
Classic breathable lace loafers. I got to get eyes on this. Now. See what you're talking about.
- [75:43]
Seth Payne
You'll see. You'll see them out in nature, and you'll be. You'll be like, that's. That's not for me. They look actually pretty comfortable, though. I just. I don't like when you try to. That's where I feel like that's. That's a situation where somebody might say, well, now sneakers would look a little too casual here. I'm gonna go with these ridiculously looking little dainty shoes. Like I'm a 17th century aristocrat or something. I just. Yeah, I just. That's. I don't like it. I don't like it.
- [76:07]
Luke Morrow
I just love. Dainty is such a great word to use to describe it. It just makes it sound so bad. People said. Or another text said. People in the 80s said the same about T shirts with a suit and rolling up the jacket sleeves. Now, we all still do that. Right? Right. Like the Don Johnson, Miami Vice Look. Yeah, same thing. You look back on that and think, like, what was that guy thinking? I think that's going to be the sneakers with suits look years from now.
- [76:33]
Seth Payne
Okay. So pretty much fashion from any era looks dumb when you look at it a decade or two later.
- [76:39]
Luke Morrow
That is true.
- [76:40]
Seth Payne
Yeah. And then three decades later, it looks really, really cool. But I mean, some of the stuff that. That's how it was with the 70s. You know, you used to look at some of the clothes and the suits and everything that people would wear in the 70s. You're like, that's the dumbest thing I've ever seen in my entire life. And then it kind of came back and you're like, oh, it's cool. I kind of see the flair with all of that. And then it'll look stupid again. So, yeah, never, never think that you're doing anything that isn't gonna look stupid in future years if you're doing anything that's remotely like, outside, just like the. The very standard fashion.
- [77:09]
Luke Morrow
That's fair.
- [77:10]
Seth Payne
So wear your sneakers with suits. Don't let Luke Morrow shame you.
- [77:13]
Luke Morrow
No, no, no.
- [77:14]
Seth Payne
You got too many people. You got too many people on Instagram and Tick tock shaming you for how you look and how you need to be more alpha. This and all that. Ah, do what you like.
- [77:24]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, I, I do get embarrassed when I look back at photos from, whatever, the early 2000s with how baggy the clothes were, especially for athletes. You look back at the basketball jerseys of, like the, you know, 2005 range, 2005, 2010. It was the pants, the jersey, everything was so baggy. It looks so weird now. But that was obviously.
- [77:42]
Seth Payne
That was. That's actually. But that's what's coming back now, though, too.
- [77:46]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. Which is weird.
- [77:47]
Seth Payne
Like these super oversized pants and everything. A lot of. You got a lot of grown men in their 20s looking like skater kids. It's. We're that. See, like what I told you just now when you look back and you think, oh, wow, that was. Looks so stupid. It's coming right back into vogue.
- [78:04]
Luke Morrow
No, it's true. And I will agree with this texture from the 8, 3, 2. They said you, Seth. Nailed it. As long as the shoes are comfortable. That's the big reason. Especially if you have a former athlete whose feet probably hurt from playing sports.
- [78:18]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [78:18]
Luke Morrow
And that's fair because this all started with the Ross Tucker conversation and he obviously was an NFL lineman. So I do get that, that if it is an issue where you got banged up feet or whatever, you need more Comfortable shoes, I understand. But in general, I just don't like the look.
- [78:33]
Seth Payne
The most impressive people to me are always just the people that genuinely do not give a single damn about what your fashion norms are. And either. Sometimes those are super artsy people that are just wearing whatever the hell they feel like wearing that day. And it's impressive. But then on the flip side, it is the guy that just. Just is totally comfortable looking like a bum wherever he goes. And it helps if you're super rich, you can get away with that. More. Like, you see a guy in a restaurant that's got a dress code, but there's one guy in there and flip flops and a T shirt. Okay, that guy. That guy, like, either owns the place or knows people or something, and he's just. He just does not give a single damn.
- [79:11]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, I said that yesterday about Adam Sandler. Like, that's how I want to be. If I ever came into a lot of money, I would dress like a total bum, too. Just so people think, like, wow, what a bum. And then.
- [79:19]
Seth Payne
Yeah, because with Sandler, it's not even like. It's not just that he's wearing unimpressive clothes or whatever. He just genuinely doesn't care how it looks like. There's nothing about, like, the. The clothes that he's wearing where it's like, okay, he doesn't want to spend a lot of money on clothes, but he looks good. Like, no, no, he just. He genuinely does not care. Yeah, he just looks like a college kid that just, you know, woke up late and had to make it to Chemistry.
- [79:45]
Luke Morrow
Exactly. Somebody else, another texter said, I can't find the text now, but they were saying, these are the trendsetters. These are the athletes doing this. Why don't you get in line? Yeah. Also, you know, Jenko jeans was once a trend as well, and, you know, chained wallets and whatnot, like, we already laid out. Not all trends are great or certainly stay in style.
- [80:08]
Seth Payne
Plus, I wouldn't put NFL football players in the trendsetter category. We're the, like, fashion wise, we're the dorkiest of sports. Partly because of just body type. It's just harder for guys to. And then, you know what happens with a lot of guys? They kind of get sucked into, like, some custom tailor early in their career. And a lot of times those guys are just. They're just. They suck. They're selling guys on crap that doesn't look good, but they've got their. They've got their athlete and they're buying their Bill, you know their design, designing custom clothes for him and everything. But it's not anything that, you know, Italian Vogue isn't picking it up for tips.
- [80:45]
Luke Morrow
By the way, multiple texters said the dainty shoes you're referring to are called driver loafers.
- [80:50]
Seth Payne
Oh, okay. Yeah, I don't like the driver loafers. I don't think it's a good look for men. Even though I'm sitting here and acting like I don't give a damn what people wear or whatever, there's something about those driver loafers that rub me the wrong way. They just look a little. You know what I can do? I could see my, I could see my grandfather looking at a guy in those loafers and just kind of sneering at him because this guy obviously doesn't know how to do anything manual. That sort of. I'm letting my grandfather's biases creep into it.
- [81:20]
Luke Morrow
And somebody else said, tell Seth he's right on. Those velvet looking, slim, glorified, smoking jacket type house slippers look weird with shorts.
- [81:29]
Seth Payne
They're too dainty.
- [81:32]
Luke Morrow
Dainty is a great word. So there you go. There's the fashion. The fashion tips from, from your morning show. Yeah. Last text. I'll read. Somebody said sneakers and suits do not go together. It is tacky looking. Thank you. That's what I'm saying.
- [81:47]
Seth Payne
You know, the thing is though, what if I think there's a time you can pull it off, but it's got to be with like a super casual suit, right?
- [81:53]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, right.
- [81:55]
Seth Payne
As far as my stance is, I don't really care because a lot of times it's just for comfort. But you can pull it off some sometimes, right? If it's like it's just got to be a certain look or something.
- [82:04]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. I do agree. And I think they, they've created that happy medium where they are. I'm wearing some right now where they are like sneakers but they look dressy. They're not Jordans. That's the thing. Like when you're wearing high top Jordans and it bundles up your, the bottom of your pants at the top of the shoes, like, it just looks, it looks silly. But there's are, there are plenty of sneakers out there that are sneakers that look dressy and I think those look really good with suits.
- [82:27]
Seth Payne
Can't wait to castigate Ross Tucker the next time he comes.
- [82:30]
Luke Morrow
Yes.
- [82:30]
Seth Payne
Over his shoe wear.
- [82:31]
Luke Morrow
I know. I wish this. It's Tuesday. He. I wish it was the NFL season he'd be joining us today. We could talk about the wedding. We could talk about, I don't think.
- [82:39]
Seth Payne
Has anybody talked about the wedding? I feel like there are a bunch of NDAs signed. Sure.
- [82:44]
Luke Morrow
I haven't heard anything. Bill Simmons did a. I saw somebody. It went viral. Bill Simmons did a funny bit where he pretended he was at the wedding on his podcast and his producers were asking him questions.
- [82:54]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [82:54]
Luke Morrow
And he was answering the questions and they were like, I guess believing and going along with it. And then at the end he was like, yeah, I didn't go to the wedding. I was just trying to make you believe. So, no. That's the closest thing we got. No, I don't think anyone has spoken on it. And to your point, I don't think anyone can.
- [83:06]
Seth Payne
Yeah. I don't think Ross is going to tell us anything. He's not. He doesn't have the resources to fight Taylor Swift.
- [83:10]
Luke Morrow
Lawyers. I don't know.
- [83:12]
Seth Payne
Apple for Christ. Yeah, they know there's. There's not a chance in hell he's going to say a thing about it.
- [83:17]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. Hey, coming up a little bit later on, we'll get to David Montgomery, top running back list. But when we come back, are we being unfair to Cam Smith? I sort of just defended CJ Stroud. I guess I'll defend Cam Smith next. Are we being unfair to the young outfielder? We'll talk about it next on Pain and Pendergast. Mortgage refinancing might sound complicated. SOFI makes it easier with refinancing options designed to fit your goals. You can explore lowering your mortgage rate, accessing cash from your home's equity with your cash out refi or shortening your loan term. Whatever your next move, SOFI can help you find the right fit. Ready to Explore refi? Visit sofi.com powermove Mortgages originated by Sofi bank in a member FDIC NMLS 696891 Terms and conditions apply. Equal housing Lender Having the right people
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Seth Payne
That's digitallocalads.com okay people, starts here Oregon Parks make an Oregon Summer but what
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Luke Morrow
makes an Oregon Park? Well, Oregon Lottery Gameplay helps no matter the game. Megabucks, video lottery or Keno funds from lottery games help support parks projects across the state, ensuring they stay safe, accessible and open for all. In fact, Discover State Park Scratches are in stores now. It's the perfect way to put a little bit of Oregon's parks in your pocket. The Oregon Lottery Together we do good things. Must be 18 or older to play. Lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only. Now is your time to get into a new Dr. Horton home by taking advantage of its national Red Tag Sales event. This Friday, July 10th through Sunday, August 2nd. Stop by any of its participating communities and find select red tag homes at incredible pricing. So whether you're buying your first home or looking for an upgrade, you don't want to miss the Red Tag Sales event starting this Friday. Discover the Dr. Horton Difference. Visit Dr. Horton.com Dr. Horton America's Builder and Equal Housing Opportunity Builder Are you being unfair to Cam Smith? It's Payne and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow in for Sean alongside Seth Payne. You can always text the show 713-572-4610 to join the conversation on the text line where we did hear from somebody who tailors suits for professional athletes here in Houston. So oh yeah, we got everybody out there listening. Join the conversation on YouTube and Twitch as well. Are we being unfair to Cam Smith?
- [86:35]
Seth Payne
Wait, you said somebody texted in who does Taylor Professional tailor for professional athletes? What's he say? He's probably one of the good ones.
- [86:43]
Luke Morrow
He said we do all the suits for Houston pro athletes, including many of the Astros. Tapered and somewhat form fitting. We tailor suits. Yada yada yada. Anyways, they said sneakers can work as long as they are clean and fit with the event.
- [86:57]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [86:57]
Luke Morrow
Oh and then they also said we'd love to have you stop by. All right. I got a wedding going to a wedding later this month so hey, hook me up. I'll be there. Adam Ross Custom Appreciate you listening. I won't be wearing sneakers, but I'll take the suit. Are we being unfair to Cam Smith? I had this realization the other day and he had a good night last night, like the whole back half of the lineup did for the Astros. But I had this realization of, you know, like he's going to be a. He's like a Gold Glove outfielder last I checked, which might have been maybe two weeks ago. He was towards the top of the league and like defensive run, save for outfielders.
- [87:33]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [87:33]
Luke Morrow
And he's on pace to hit 20 homers and his batting average obviously is not there. You know, he's a career.230 hitter, which is not good. But we're grading on a curve when it comes to batting average these days. That's almost like a.260 hitter 25 years ago, you know, not terrible, which sounds crazy to say, but my point being Gold Glove 20 Homer guy, wouldn't you sign that for up for that each year to have a very good right fielder who's going to have some pop in the lineup. That's almost like an, you know, Andrew Jones had a Hall of Fame career by just playing good outfield, hitting homers. I think he had a career like.250 average, was never a great hitter, but he's a Hall of Famer because he played good defense and had some pop. Cam Smith can do that for you. And I think Cam Smith is almost a. What's the word I'm looking for? I think he's been hurt by the expectations that have been bestowed upon him.
- [88:25]
Seth Payne
Well, I think, I guess the only issue I have with that is that you're also like, if you're going to say, okay, this is what he's going to be. I'd be kind of alarmed if a guy who probably came up into the majors too early and he was fast tracked as this shiny new toy that you need to get him into the majors. He can learn on the fly as much as possible that in his second year, this is going to be what he is for the rest of his career. Like, he's still very, very young and he has been like in I did an extreme cherry pick where I went down. I went back 43 games to May 9th. But okay, let's cherry pick a little bit. It Since May 9, he's got a.756 OPS. So he's an above average or just right around average, a little bit above average as at the plate while also being really, really good in the outfield. He's got a. For whatever it's worth. His war is 1/10 above Kyle Tucker's overall war right now. Yeah, if you want to go for B refs war, that's where he is, you know, and it's. This is all anchored by defense. It never feels. I hate, I hate taking somebody's overall WAR and acting like that tells the whole picture because, like having a guy who's a drain in your lineup doesn't. It isn't offset by his defensive contributions. But I think that, I think for where he is right now and what your expectations should be, reasonably, there's just no reason to. There's no reason for me, at least that I can think of that, oh yeah, this is what he's going to be for the rest of his career. And like he's already sealed his fate in terms of not being A plus player at the plate.
- [90:04]
Luke Morrow
I would normally agree with you, but I did this exercise a few weeks back when I was on a different show and I looked into it and I asked again, going back to AI, I didn't do the, I didn't do the legwork, But I asked AI, I said, give me players that hit.230 or worse through the first 1,000 plate appearances and I wanted to see if they ever did turn it around. And the only guy there was one, I think it was Mike Schmidt was the only guy that turned into like a great baseball player after struggling that mightily early on. Cam Smith is now over 800 plate appearances. So he's not at a thousand yet, but I think he's a career like.229 hitter historically. And again, batting average, we have to look at it on a curve now, but historically, guys that don't hit well or at least hit for average through their first a thousand plate appearances. Yeah, they don't turn it around enough to at least become like a perennial All Star or Hall of Famer.
- [90:55]
Seth Payne
Yeah, I guess. Yeah, I guess. Wait, did you say Mike Schmidt?
- [90:58]
Luke Morrow
I think Mike Schmidt was the one.
- [90:59]
Seth Payne
I guess that's like a pretty high bar. It's weird that Mike Schmidt would be the only. So that's a. If you're, if you're saying, okay, he's not going to be Mike Schmidt, I'm not going to cry into my pillow at night over that necessarily was that. But that was that the only notably good like guy that became an All Star, etc, etc, Right. At any point.
- [91:16]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, the only notable guy that was batting.230 or worse through their first a thousand career plate appearances and then really turned it on.
- [91:23]
Seth Payne
It's Hard though, because it is. Batting average is such a good an afterthought now in terms of what guys are even worried about or concerned about. The power is what intrigues people like with Cam Smith more than anything.
- [91:36]
Luke Morrow
Right. And to your point. And look war like you laid out. It's not a perfect stat. Take it with a grain of salt. What is it good for? But I had to take the low hanging fruit. But it shows that what he does overall, all encompassing when you factor in the defense that to this point, statistically he's been more valuable than even a Kyle Tucker. Even though he's batting only like 229. He doesn't draw a ton of walks, but he hits homers. He plays really good defense and that adds something to a team. So I think there's two things at play for Cam Smith. Number one, he's part of the worst outfield in the MLB right now and one of the worst in Astros history. So I think he gets grouped into that that when the people next to him look so bad, we can be guilty of. Of associating Cam Smith with the Jake Myers and the Joey Loper Feto.
- [92:29]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [92:29]
Luke Morrow
In the minors. I don't think it helps that the outfield just overall we have such negative thoughts about the outfield because it's been so bad and Cam Smith's part of the outfield.
- [92:37]
Seth Payne
Yeah. And then, I mean, it doesn't help when you've got both of your, you know, the guys that you've put all your faith into, including Bryce Matthews, who's new to the outfield himself and also isn't providing anything either. Like the. We've gone from back in the day waiting for. Oh boy, when's Springer gonna come up? When's Carlos Correa gonna come up? When eggs Alex Bregman coming up. We've gone to like, oh no, you don't have to wait for those guys to come up. We're just gonna throw them out there and they're gonna disappoint you. I feel like it's a, it's a double whammy that we don't even get the. The anticipate. We don't get as much of an anticipation. Anticipation for their, for their arrivals and then it's been a very underwhelming appearance when they do show up.
- [93:19]
Luke Morrow
And then the other thing though, to me is like I said, the expectations where it's not Cam Smith's fault. They labeled him as like the number one prospect in this camp. Ms. Guy. It's almost like the Preseason rankings in college sports where when a team doesn't live up to that ranking, it's like, oh, what a disappointment. This team stinks. And it's like, well, they didn't put that ranking on themselves. Maybe just all of the, the college football writers had it wrong and overrated or overvalued this team. Similar at Cam Smith, where people are going to say, oh, what a bust, he was the number one prospect. Well, he didn't assign himself as that. Maybe it was the evaluators who were wrong, put these lofty expectations on him. But if you were to remove those expectations and say he was a no name minor leaguer, but just hypothetically speaking, say he's your right fielder for 10 years, winning Gold Gloves and hitting 20 homers a year, I think a lot of teams would sign up for that. Yeah, but because he's supposed to be.
- [94:14]
Seth Payne
Well, it's, I mean, for, for the trade and being able to, you know, you know, claim victory in that trade, which I think they already can just by virtue of the, the number of guys that you brought in that are actual contributors. And we'll see about Wisneski when he comes back. That, that, that part of it, the expectations and him being a five tool player and everything else that goes along with it. Yeah, I know, but I don't. Have you sensed, have you sensed a whole lot of frustration about Cam Smith specifically? I don't feel like the fan base is done with Cam Smith or something, but maybe I don't spend enough time on social media.
- [94:48]
Luke Morrow
Honestly. I think they moved. I think it was a lot of Cam Smith early on, like the second half of last year and early this season. And then, and then this kind of goes against the point I made a few moments ago, but I think people have moved on to like Joey Lofito, Jake Meyer, like the other disappointments, even though they don't have as high of a profile as Cam Smith Smith. But I think there's other guys that are doing worse. Mike Burrows, you know, Ima that they're the ones drawing the ire. And you kind of, you let Cam Smith slide because he's not the worst guy on the team right now. So we'll see on the text line. Somebody said if Cam Smith was still at second base, he would be considered top 25% of second baseman. Yeah, maybe. And another I like this other text coming up next. Are we being too hard on Reed Shepherd? Yeah, I guess, maybe.
- [95:31]
Seth Payne
I know, let's do the.
- [95:33]
Luke Morrow
Maybe I'm being too positive.
- [95:34]
Seth Payne
Let's all pause in early July here and figure out who we're being too tough on. Yeah, I was a little mean about that Pulisic character earlier on. I gotta give him another decade, see if he can figure it out.
- [95:45]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, I guess I've been too positive here this past hour. So when we come back, let's flip the flip the bill here and get to the Petty cast who's being petty in the sports world. We'll bring you the audio next Pain and Pen or guess. I'm Jenna Fisher. And I'm Angela Kinsey and together we have the podcast Office.
- [96:02]
Seth Payne
Ladies and gentlemen, just because we finished
- [96:04]
Luke Morrow
rewatching the Office does not mean we're going anywhere. Every Wednesday we'll be sharing even more exclusive stories from the Office and our
- [96:12]
Seth Payne
friendship with brand new guests.
- [96:13]
Luke Morrow
Plus, you can revisit all the Office Ladies rewatch episodes every Monday with new bonus tidbits before every episode. So follow and listen to Office Ladies on the free Odysee app and wherever you get your podcasts. 5am I'm up with a crisp Celsius
- [96:32]
Seth Payne
energy drink running 12 miles today.
- [96:34]
Luke Morrow
Grab a green juice, quick change and head to work. Meetings, Workshops One more Celsius. No slowing down. Working late, but obviously still meeting the girls for a little dancing.
- [96:44]
Seth Payne
Celsius Live Fit.
- [96:46]
Luke Morrow
Go grab a cold, refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate now@celsius.com
- [96:53]
Seth Payne
Oregon Parks make an Oregon Summer but what
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Luke Morrow
makes an Oregon park? Well, Oregon Lottery Gameplay helps no matter the game Megabucks, video lottery or keno funds from lottery games help support parks projects across the state, ensuring they stay safe, accessible and open for all. In fact, Discover State Park Scratches are in stores now. It's the perfect way to put a little bit of Oregon's parks in your pocket. The Oregon Lottery Together we do good things. Must be 18 or older to play Lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only. Okay, real talk shopping doesn't always boost your confidence. Sometimes you just want to put something on and think, yes, this is me. That's why Stitch Fix works. You take a quick style, quiz, size, budget, what you're into, and a real human stylist sends pieces picked just for you. Try everything on at home. Keep what you love, send back the rest. Shipping's free. No subscription required. Get $20 off@stitchfix.com podcast.
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Seth Payne
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- [98:23]
Luke Morrow
Time to get petty here on Pain and Pendergast. We got the pedicast coming up here in just a moment. I'm Luke Morrow in for Sean alongside Seth Payne.
- [98:32]
Seth Payne
Thanks for remembering that it's pedicast today. I don't. That's Sean's. I don't know if Parker tells the guys who come in and fill in for Sean just how much, just how little idea I have what's going on in the world. If you asked me, like, hey, when do we do the pedicast? I might be like, out of Sunday mornings. I don't know. So thanks. Good job. As your. Your first job is remembering which. Which segments go where. Yeah, you've done well with that.
- [98:59]
Luke Morrow
Oh, I appreciate it. It's, you know, I have to do my research to make sure I'm on top of things. But, yeah, you know, hey, I've noticed. I think it was like the first time I had worked with you, and you're like, I don't know. Ask Ben. And I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, that's Ben. How this.
- [99:13]
Seth Payne
Ben and Sean are the guys that know what. What is actually going on around here. I'm just along for the ride.
- [99:18]
Luke Morrow
And shout out to Ben. I haven't mentioned his name. I haven't introed him at the start of the shows the last two days, but holding it down as always on the other side of the glass. Time for the Petty cast, though, nonetheless, it does happen every Tuesday here at this time at. At 8am so let's get Petty. Let's get to some audio. This first one is Jeff Teague, former NBA player, and I'm trying to pull up the source of where he was. This was on the Volume Network. That's Colin Coward's podcast network.
- [99:50]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [99:50]
Luke Morrow
And so Jeff Teague was talking about. Larry Bird has one rule when building a team. Here's that rule for Larry Bird. We was chilling, and he was talking
- [100:00]
Seth Payne
about how good LeBron was. And I was like, lebron better than you.
- [100:03]
Luke Morrow
He said, lebron's the greatest player ever, besides Michael. I was like, damn. He was. I'll never pay anybody who played with LeBron. I would never pick him up on my team. Damn. I said, why?
- [100:13]
Seth Payne
He said, because he'd make them all look good. They all really sad. Exact words. He said, you go get them, and they're not gonna be the same player you wanted. That's. Is that Petty by. You know what? That's impressive because it made the Petty cast. It's Petty towards pretty much everybody who ever played with LeBron. And yet at the same time, it's Larry Bird saying that, oh, no, no, I'm not in that category. LeBron's. LeBron's way better than me. You don't. You don't necessarily hear that out of some of. Some of the guys that are in the all time great conversations just casually giving up a. Giving up a spot on the list.
- [100:46]
Luke Morrow
Especially Bird, who's. Who is always very. At least confident. I was going to say arrogant. He was very confident. Probably arrogant too. So I'm surprised that Larry Bird said that. But yeah, that stood out to me as well. Props to him.
- [100:58]
Seth Payne
He's also like, that was before the current age. I don't think you could ever caught back in the day. I don't know if you would have caught most NBA players dead, like power ranking themselves or anything or getting into that debate. Things have just changed so much. And now the guys that are actually, you know, still in the media and everything will talk about it and it's just. It's more standard. But I feel like that's a. It's hard to imagine a lot of the guys from the 70s, 80s, in maybe early 90s or 90s talking all that much about it.
- [101:27]
Luke Morrow
By the way, is it Petty? My favorite Larry Bird story was when he decided to play with only his left hand against the Trailblazers in 1986, and I think scored like 40 points in the game using his offense.
- [101:38]
Seth Payne
Yeah. Good pettiness. Yeah. Petty, you know, Larry Bird with a Twitter account might feel a little bit like a young Alex Bregman. You know, he would just. Like a young Larry Bird, I think would have been Warren with people on Twitter. So it's not. I'm not saying that, you know, he's any different than modern athletes or anything other than the era that he grew up in. As far as not signing anybody that played with LeBron because you. You get an inaccurate gauge of how good they are. I guess that's the. That's always the question is. All right, how do you account for that? And it's not like it's an exaggeration. Hearing it through Jeff Teague, I'm guessing that Larry Bird would more think, you know, you got to be really careful about. It's like in football when you sign a guy who just won a Super bowl and had a. You know, is the MVP of the super bowl or went through a really good playoff run. All right, what's he look like on a normal team in normal circumstances? Let's go with his career average. More so than that. For me, for a long time, I never. I didn't want an offensive coordinator who had worked with Tom Brady, because I felt like, in the case of Bill o', Brien, it becomes too easy for those offensive coordinators to think that they had more to do with Tom Brady's success than they actually did or that anybody. Because Tom Brady doesn't look all that impressive physically, I think there's a temptation for people to believe that, oh, all we have to do is teach this guy the system. And he's even. He's got more impressive physical traits than Tom Brady. So he can be just as good as long as he just learns the system without recognizing that. Okay. Tom Brady's ability to learn and execute that system is a skill unto itself, and it's just because you can't see it or measure it. Sometimes people delude themselves into thinking Brian Hoyer can do it or Ryan Fitzpatrick can do it or somebody else can do it. It's a. It's kind of an insult to Tom Brady.
- [103:30]
Luke Morrow
I'm with you. Like, look for any. Yeah, any coordinators working with good quarterbacks. Adam Gase got head coaching jobs because he was Peyton Manning's offensive coordinator. I think, as we found out, it was more about Peyton Manning than it was Adam Gase. Nathaniel Hackett is another one who's gotten opportunities because, like, he was Adam Aaron Rodgers, quarterback coach or whatever, you know? Like, I think it was more about the. I think it was more about the quarterback than it was the coach.
- [103:53]
Seth Payne
Well, Bruce Arians being the quarterback whisperer. I mean, like. All right. I mean, it kind of helps when you work with Ross Roethlisberger and Andrew Luck and ultimately Tom Brady. Yeah, there's a little bit of the. The skill of the actual quarterback there that the guys that were good without. Bruce Arians as well. But that's part of. That's part of where Bruce Arians is really smart. Choosing your. Choosing the tools you have to work with is part of being a good coach.
- [104:20]
Luke Morrow
Absolutely. Yeah. By the way, last thing on this, I actually ran into Larry Bird while we're talking about pettiness. I ran into Larry Bird in Boston years ago. This was, like, 20 years ago. And he was a jerk.
- [104:30]
Seth Payne
So was he. What'd he do?
- [104:32]
Luke Morrow
He just blew us off. And it was in Boston. It's the city that made him Ran
- [104:37]
Seth Payne
into him just on the street. No.
- [104:38]
Luke Morrow
So it's a whole story. So we were actually there for the Celtics, Indiana Pacers playoff game. And at the time, Bird was running the pace. He was with the Pacers. He was in the front office of the Pacer. So he was the quote unquote enemy. But still it was Boston. And we just happened to be walking down the street during the day, and we stumbled upon the Pacers team hotel. And so we saw the players just hanging out in the lobby. And we went. They had security, but we, like, snuck in. And my mother claimed she had to use the bathroom. She just like stood in the bathroom for like 20 minutes. And I got to.
- [105:07]
Seth Payne
I thinking, Mrs. Morrow.
- [105:09]
Luke Morrow
That's right. And we met Jermaine O', Neal, Jamal Tinsley. I hung out with Scott Pollard for a while. Great guy. Reggie Miller was on that team. All the guys, they were just in the lobby. And Larry Bird was there. And I get it. He's. It's a quote unquote business trip, whatever. But he just. He gave us the cold shoulder. He was a. He was a jerk. He walked off. He was a jerk.
- [105:28]
Seth Payne
He might have never known. He might have been running away from his daughter or something. You know, it's. Who knows what's going on? Makes it better at that point.
- [105:34]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, that's right. Anytime somebody. You never know what they have going on. And I'm probably the obnoxious one, but anytime somebody doesn't reciprocate my excitement, I just call him a jerk. Like Larry.
- [105:43]
Seth Payne
Was he wearing sneakers with his suit? That's what really pissed you off.
- [105:47]
Luke Morrow
I could see that being a Larry Bird thing before it's become cool. He was wearing, like, sketchers with a suit back then. Classic Bird. This next one, God bless the text line. But here's. Here's the president reading to kids and couldn't help himself but to take shots at another former president.
- [106:05]
Seth Payne
Others, like President William Taft, throw out the first pitch of baseball. He was a large man, very large. And he loved baseball. He'd go to baseball games. Loved the hot dogs at the baseball games. He was our heaviest president. And I have to be careful because
- [106:23]
Luke Morrow
I don't want to supersede his record
- [106:25]
Seth Payne
in a thing like. That would be possible if I allowed it to happen.
- [106:30]
Luke Morrow
For all of you out there watching,
- [106:31]
Seth Payne
keep yourself in good shape.
- [106:32]
Luke Morrow
Right. Like you.
- [106:34]
Seth Payne
You're in such good shape. Okay, awesome. If it was a chubby kid like you, you gotta watch it. No, you know what? I didn't. I. I hadn't heard or seen that. And I got to give him credit for conceding that. Like, hey, like, hey, whoa, I gotta, you know, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna throw this out. I gotta. Let's, let's, let's address the elephant in the room here that I got. I could have some tendencies too.
- [107:05]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. At least acknowledge that.
- [107:07]
Seth Payne
But it's the new. He was fat. You know, the political cartoonist back in the day. This wouldn't be some news or anything that he is pointing out that is that he had some weight troubles.
- [107:16]
Luke Morrow
I think he was reading a baseball book, though. It was just the idea, like, I think he went out of his way to talk about how fat Taft is and then even mentioned, like, not just that he was a baseball fan, but he loved eating hot dogs and popcorn at the baseball game. He was just catching strays. It was great.
- [107:33]
Seth Payne
Taft weighed around 330 to 350, according to my Google search.
- [107:38]
Luke Morrow
And that was like the early 1900s. Right. Guys weren't as big back then.
- [107:42]
Seth Payne
I think the, the bat you had asked about, the bathtub story, I think it was. There was a massive. They had to bring in a custom bathtub to handle his massive frame, which, I mean, let's be fair, you know, back in the day, yeah, 330 or 350 was something that was, it was pretty rare. You had to be, you had to be a rich man to get that fat. Where nowadays that's, that's probably a standard bathtub. They probably, it's probably the bathtub that remains in the White House today because they're like, oh, yeah, this is the standard American bathtub. Now.
- [108:14]
Luke Morrow
He was an innovator.
- [108:15]
Seth Payne
We call it the tap.
- [108:16]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, he was ahead of his time. It does stink. And I googled it. The story is a myth that he got stuck in the bathtub. That part's the myth. But it does stink. That that's. He was a president and that's his legacy. Whenever I hear Howard, I don't know what he did in office, but I do know this now made up story, I guess, that he got stuck in a bathtub. It stinks. That that's, that's your legacy a hundred years after you passed away that people are laughing about how you got stuck in a bathtub because you were so, so fat.
- [108:43]
Seth Payne
The heaviest president, according to Statista, was William Howard Taft, followed by Grover Cleveland.
- [108:50]
Luke Morrow
Oh, yeah, he was a big.
- [108:51]
Seth Payne
Grover Cleveland is the best. I always think of him when I think of overweight presidents just because he like Grover. That sounds like a Big fella, doesn't it?
- [109:00]
Luke Morrow
Right.
- [109:00]
Seth Payne
Cleveland. Not a very glamorous last name. And then tied. Tied at 237. Donald Trump and Theodore Roosevelt. I was surprised because Theodore Roosevelt wasn't as tall as Trump. That's impressive. I'm surprised that Roosevelt was that heavy by his later years, I guess. Yeah. Yeah.
- [109:19]
Luke Morrow
And Grover Cleveland also has the Andy Reid, like, walrus mustache, so it just. It just fits. That fits the big guys. It makes him look even. Even bigger or heftier. And that was the late 1800s.
- [109:29]
Seth Payne
Bill Clinton. Was Bill Clinton sixth on the list, just behind Zachary Taylor.
- [109:34]
Luke Morrow
Bill Clinton. I didn't realize he was the 20th.
- [109:37]
Seth Payne
It feels like that. I. You know what? I got to give it credit. I thought this would be more heavily weighted into the 20th century, in the 21st century, but I guess part of it, too, is that even though Americans have gotten bigger, the. The. The. The. The. How your appearance has mattered more, I guess, as we've gotten into the television age. So maybe back in the day, it didn't hurt you as much to be a William McKinley or something, or James Garfield, like a. Like a portly fella by the day.
- [110:07]
Luke Morrow
That's true. Hey, on the Twitter line, the text line, I should say, says they weren't called fat cats for no reason. So maybe it was like you said, like, only the rich people were fat. It was almost a positive.
- [110:17]
Seth Payne
No, we're living in a crazy time in human history. Like, this is the first time where obesity has been an issue for the. The poor. You know, like, mass starvation tends to be the problem more so throughout history. And now we're in an era where, like, it's actually the exact opposite. Which, I mean, I don't. I don't know if we should be somehow grateful for that. I know it doesn't feel like the appropriate feel, but maybe a little attaboy to ourselves, you know, like, all these other countries make fun of how fat we are. Like, yeah, we got excess calories floating around all over the place. What do you expect.
- [110:52]
Luke Morrow
Expect us to do? Yeah, everyone from the World Cup. Well, everyone's finding out why and how.
- [110:56]
Seth Payne
They're getting pretty fat in other countries, too. It's a lot of these countries. You ever. You seen an Englishman lately? Some portly fellas over there. They're still wearing their tiny little T shirts and everything. Bill Burr does a good bit on this when he's over in England. He's like, wait, you guys are. You guys are fat like us? Like, I'm not gonna sit around and get Shamed for being fat when you guys are just as chubby. A little James Corden looking bloated.
- [111:19]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, well, that's because they're most known for like fried fish and french fries. Hey. As we continue on the Petty cast, Bill Simmons was reading some fan mail on his podcast. He got this email from a Charlotte Hornets fan describing what it's like to be a Hornets fan. Here's Bill Simmons reading the email. Josh and Rally. Imagine you're dating an absolute smoke show
- [111:42]
Seth Payne
in college who is tons of fun but completely insane.
- [111:46]
Luke Morrow
She's amazing in bed and at parties, but she also goes through her phone when you're not looking. Also, she's a horrible driver. You know it's not gonna last and that she isn't the kind of girl to introduce to your parents. So you break up. Deep down, you know she was a long term solution.
- [111:57]
Seth Payne
But when she's gone, you just feel
- [111:59]
Luke Morrow
alone and that sucks. That's how it feels to be a Hornets fan right now. Josh really went deep. I was almost tied in obsession. I was trying to figure out where that was going. And then, then you figured it out. It landed in. It landed in a good NBA place, actually. I. Good email. Zach Lowe was that second voice that, I don't know, wasn't really having fun with it. But that's an email from a Hornets fan describing what it's like to be a Hornets fan right now.
- [112:25]
Seth Payne
Is that what's the closest team in recent Houston memory that's felt like that? Would it be the 2000, the 2020 Texans? Just because they did have so much talent on paper and you had desean Watson and. Yeah, and that was before we knew anything about the allegations that would come. It was just such a mess in so many ways. And they had made all these crazy. They'd made a bunch of crazy offseason moves. They had done. They kind of operated like a, like a psycho and it was, it was all unraveling right in front of us.
- [112:59]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, I think that's the best one because, yeah, it crumbled. And similar to the Hornets where they were a playoff team and won like one of the playing games last year and they. Or this past season, there was excitement. And then this offseason they just go and trade away like their two best players and it's like, well, what the heck, I thought we were a playoff team. So yeah, the fact that like you had that excitement and then it just all quickly comes apart, I think your Texans example probably is the best.
- [113:22]
Seth Payne
I'm going to go to the roster rankings. Because right now that's what we get is a whole bunch of stuff about, you know, roster rankings and everything. Headed into the season, Texans are okay. So going into that year, the Texans are a 23rd ranked roster. So not as much of a. Yeah, I was, I was thinking they'd be. It might be mid ranked more so. But they had, they had issues all over the place.
- [113:42]
Luke Morrow
Wow. Would you say 23rd?
- [113:44]
Seth Payne
I'm surprised. Going into that season.
- [113:45]
Luke Morrow
I'm surprised by that. Here's.
- [113:48]
Seth Payne
Well, they had, you know, they had collapsed defensively in the playoffs the year before and they did nothing about it other than let DJ Reader go and sign Eric Murray and pay him like a starting cornerback in the league. That was there. That was their solution on defense going into 2020.
- [114:05]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, for sure. This other piece of audio here on the Petty cast, this is former, when they were called the redskins, former Redskins GM Scott McLuhan. Yeah, that's how he says it. Thank you. This was McLuhan making a radio appearance in the D.C. area over the weekend. And the reason why I put this on here, he's talking about Ty Simpson, but a couple other guys also get hit with strays, which is why we included it. Here's the former gm.
- [114:34]
Seth Payne
Is there a player in that first round that you thought was overdrafted? I think the quarterback from Alabama was overdrafted. Okay. Ty Simpson. But it's a position alone, I think, not being a guru. But he's like J.J. mcCarthy. He's like Mac Jones. He's a career backup. Ideally, Ideally, he might start, but that's because of where his pick was and they want to prove him, everybody right.
- [115:04]
Luke Morrow
Type of thing.
- [115:05]
Seth Payne
And that's not the way you should build a roster. Not at all. Yeah. So J.J. mcCarthy, like, is 100% that guy where it just feels like, man, especially because of the Sam Darnold scenario. Like when you had, you had Sam Darnold in the building and it's so weird to talk about this like this, but that, all right, he's a viable NFL quarterback no matter what he does in his career afterwards. Like, you can't take away what, what he did last year and that you just so casually tossed him aside to the point now where you're, you're trying to do, you're trying to do with Kyler Murray what maybe you could have done with Sam Darnold. That. That's a, that that's a, that's a big misstep. Scott McLuhan. Scott McLuhan was the one that was Alleged by his ex wife or his wife at the time to have been having an affair with Rossini. Right.
- [115:58]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, it was his wife at the time. I don't know if they're still together or not.
- [116:01]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [116:01]
Luke Morrow
But yeah, she's the one that put it out there. That was really, I think, the initial. The first rumblings of Rossini, you know, doing some of this nefarious stuff. But yeah, he was the one. So that's what. I guess it's just a coincidence. But it is funny that last week we had the Rossini video where she's taking a shot at JJ McCarthy while talking to the police. And then we get this audio where now Scott's taking a shot at J.J. mcCarthy. And as you mentioned, there's that connection from the past between Scott and Rossini. Not saying, just saying. But also, I feel bad for J.J. mcCarthy. He's just trying to, like, enjoy his offseason. And everywhere he looks, people are just making fun of him or giving him a hard time telling him he sucks. He's like, man, I'm just. It's the off season. I'm just trying to get better and enjoy my off time.
- [116:44]
Seth Payne
Gonna add fuel to the fire for nine to do what nine does, man. That's what. That's what nine does. He takes all the haters energy and turns it into really mediocre football.
- [116:57]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, I guess so. There's no audio, but we talked about it yesterday. Maybe on the pedicast we can include Mike Vrabel's wife dragging him to the Taylor Swift wedding on Friday. I don't know if that counts because we also got the video that came out from over the weekend of Diana Rossini and her family on a cruise.
- [117:15]
Seth Payne
You know what? We did have that. You know, the one thing that Vrabel does have, though now it's kind of nice, is that he's got the. For the rest of his life, he won't have to explain why he brought his wife with him. You know, like guys camping trip or whatever. The guys I'm bringing my wife and they're like, yeah, get it? Yep. Okay, cool. There's always a guy. There's always a guy who's always got his wife with him. And that you kind of realize there's a reason for it. It's not necessarily that she's not. She's not controlling, like naturally. It's just that it got to a point in the relationship where it was, okay, you're not allowed out. You're not allowed out of your wife's sight. And I kind of get it. All right, we understand the situation.
- [117:58]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, it's the case with Ravel now. They're, they're a joint deal from here on out. That's the petty cast here on this Tuesday. Coming up, how, how serious or how improved really is the Texans running back situation. We'll talk about that next Payne and Pendergast. Now is your time to get into a new Dr. Horton home by taking advantage of its national red tag sales event. This Friday, July 10th through Sunday, August 2nd. Stop by any of its participating communities and find select red tag homes at incredible pricing. So whether you're buying your first home or looking for an upgrade, you don't want to miss the red tag sales event. Starting this Friday, discover the Dr. Horton difference. Visit Dr. Horton.com Dr. Horton, America's builder, an equal housing opportunity builder. Every week on the Moth podcast, you'll hear true stories that will intrigue you, inspire you and make you laugh.
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Seth Payne
He said, is there anything in your diet that might be spiking your blood sugar? I said, sometimes I eat pizza until I'm unconscious. He said, I think that might be it for real.
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Luke Morrow
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- [122:18]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [122:19]
Luke Morrow
So I don't know where he would rank exactly, but I do know David Montgomery is not in the top 20 and maybe that shouldn't be a surprise.
- [122:26]
Seth Payne
I think, I guess, you know what I would say is that I since they're asked to rank the top 10 that now did were they asked to rank the top 20 or were they asked to rank the top 10? They were asked to rank the top 10. So if everybody I could see, I could totally 100% and see nobody ranking David Montgomery in the top 10. Yet at the same time that they were asked to rank the top 20, he he might squeeze in there with A few of these guys. But like when they're looking at, you know, some of the names that made it for the top 10 people, like somebody put Ashton Genty where I think a lot of people look at Ashton Genti as a guy. That boy was in a really bad circumstance. If he had been on a good team, his, some of his, like, he actually would have been a much better performing player. So that's, that's my like rose colored glasses way of looking at that.
- [123:17]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. And that and that, that is certainly fair. So I guess we shouldn't expect to be in the top 10. But it's just the idea that 20 different running backs did get a vote or mention and Montgomery was not one of those 20. So, you know, if so facto, whatever. I'm, you know, I guess I'm trying to make the case that amongst these minds he wouldn't be considered in the top 20 overall. Some would disagree.
- [123:40]
Seth Payne
No, and it really, it's regardless, I mean that's like, it's still kind of a depressing thing to argue about whether like, no, he's the 18th. If they did it with a different methodology. Damn you, Morrow. The methodology is all off on this. I think that with Montgomery, I don't know, I don't recall hearing people excited because they expect Montgomery to be a 2000 yard back or anything.
- [124:03]
Luke Morrow
Right.
- [124:03]
Seth Payne
I think that for the most part what people really want to see is just a credible rushing attack, not an incredible rushing attack. Just, just can you be a functioning rushing attack? And when you look at David Montgomery paired up with Woody Marks and then whatever happens after that, whether it's Jawar Jordan or somebody else, I think it just feels like it's a more, it's a more solidly formidable rushing attack, if not a scary rushing attack. And what I want out of David Montgomery more than anything is just that they can convert in these short yardage situations or on first down, that they're gaining 4 yards instead of gaining 2 yards. It's not, I don't, I don't have dreams or aspirations of being the number one rushing offense in the NFL. So I'm, I'm not like overly rankled by this. It would be awesome if. It would be awesome if a bunch of unnamed anonymous executives said, yeah, you know, he really got screwed over last year. Was, was, was Montgomery and he's actually one of the best five backs in the league. He's not. But really what he needs to be for this team is somebody that just steadily grinds out yardage and then especially in Short yardage situations and in the red zone can give you more of a hammer than what you had last year with either an aging Nick Chubb or a young and undersized Woody Marks.
- [125:20]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, which is totally fair. And you mentioned the red zone. That's the big thing for me. One of my favorite stats about David Montgomery is in C.J. stroud's career. Montgomery has more red zone touchdowns than all Texan running backs during that time do combined.
- [125:33]
Seth Payne
Oh, geez.
- [125:34]
Luke Morrow
Yes.
- [125:35]
Seth Payne
Well, yeah, he was amongst running backs. He had the 12th. He was tied for 12th with eight touchdowns last year. There were a few guys that had eight touchdowns last year as running backs. Well, yeah, 716 yards rushing. That was 30th in the league. And, you know, Jameer Gibbs became the guy. The one little tidbit about that that was interesting is that Gibbs, like Gibbs had a great year, you know, and he's very much up there. I don't know where he finished in these rankings, but the success rate. So success rate for rushing is just how, how many yards, what percentage of the, what percentage closer did you get to the first down marker on any given down based on down in situations? So like on first down, I think it's four yards yards on second down and six, you got to get a certain percentage. So they got. Montgomery and Gibbs both took a big step backwards last year in terms of their success rate. That speaks to the issues that they're having on the offensive line with the Lions last year. So like I, I remember looking at Montgomery and seeing that his success rate was lower last year. And you know, how much of that is because of the offensive line? How much is it because David Montgomery took a step backwards. The fact that Montgomery's success rate went down by about the same amount makes me feel better about some of Montgomery's drop off or whatever it was. Last year was more about the offensive line and injuries and Jameer Gibbs becoming more of the guy than it is that, you know, David Montgomery is just approaching that precipice where he falls off a cliff.
- [127:05]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, that's interesting. I would not guess that they were both down that low. And in that same case, it was
- [127:11]
Seth Payne
still respectable, but it was. They had been like 50% in the couple years prior and now they're down. They were last year they were down around 44% or so or something like that.
- [127:23]
Luke Morrow
And, and this is a. Just a quick sidebar. That was my whole thing for the Lions and Jared Goff and whatnot, that they just had such a great offensive line. If you look at the numbers, no quarterback has a bigger disparity in their numbers between when they're pressured and when they're not pressured than Jared Goff. And we saw, like you said, the whole offense took a step back last year because A, you lose Ben Johnson, but B, they also lost two, at least two starting linemen, including their center offensive line wasn't as good last year in Detroit and the whole offense suffered, including the running backs a little bit as well.
- [127:54]
Seth Payne
Yeah. So David Montgomery, like in 2024, he'd been 55.1% success rate. He went down to 46.2% just in one year. Which sounds, which sounds alarming until you realize that, okay, Jameer Gibbs. Gibbs even, you know, despite the year he had wasn't as consistently successful as he'd been in his previous years. You know, those two years prior to that he had been at like the year before he was at 53.6%. Last year he dropped down to 46.5%.
- [128:29]
Luke Morrow
What would you expect the carry share to be between Montgomery and Woody Marks? Do you think it's going to be kind of like a 55, 45 close to even or do you think Montgomery is going to get the, the vast majority of the carries in the backfield?
- [128:44]
Seth Payne
I think the, I think that he's probably initially going to get 2/3 of the carries.
- [128:51]
Luke Morrow
Okay.
- [128:51]
Seth Payne
And in some of that depends on what they're doing on third downs, when you know, and in passing downs when you're more likely to see Woody Marks. But I think with Woody, part of it is that man we saw last year look in bad circumstances, but still he was getting injured a lot. I mean it was like it felt like every game he was leaving with an injury at some point. And for young running backs especially some of that is learning just how to handle the wear and tear, the week to week grind that is the NFL and what you do with your recovery and all of that. But I'm, I'm guessing they're going to want to just try to keep him as much as possible successful, but also still adapting to playing in the NFL as a smaller guy and being used hopefully more as a receiver than then as a first down running back as much as you can.
- [129:40]
Luke Morrow
So with that said, before we hit the break here, I've been wondering about this and so I would love your, your, your thoughts on it. Montgomery hasn't been like that lead back in a couple of years. Do you think that helps or hurts? Do you think that helps the body, that it's not the, you know, like he's not your normal 29 year old or do you think, think that could almost lead to more wear down as the season goes along if he's getting more carries than he's been used to?
- [130:04]
Seth Payne
Oh like it's just going to be a shock to his system that all of a sudden he's back up to.
- [130:08]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, he's not used to getting that many touches and that many hits, you know, week to week, whatever.
- [130:12]
Seth Payne
Yeah, he's, you know, he's never been a huge heavy workload guy but he's down to like he only had 158 carries last year, 185 the year before. But yeah, that's a, it's a fair point to bring up. I think anytime you're a 29 year old running back, I think everything, everything. It's fair to worry about everything in terms of wear and tear on the body.
- [130:34]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, that's true.
- [130:35]
Seth Payne
Yeah. No, no, I don't think I, you know, I think it was Cody stutes. Cody said that he thinks this is the best running backs room they've had in a long time and I guess my initial knee jerk reaction to that would be, man, I don't know if you can say that when depending on how back far I, how far back he went. I didn't look at his article yet. But like in terms of what's the peak ability of your running back compared to. Okay, I feel good about David Montgomery and Woody Marks, but I don't think either of those guys is necessarily a Joe Mixon, you know, in his first year with the Texans in terms of what his overall potential is. So I still have a lot of concerns about who the third running back is going to be. If one of those guys realistically either Woody Marks or David Montgomery is going to miss some time due to injury this year. I'm not just 100% slam dunk confident in any of the backups at this point.
- [131:33]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. Which I think is fair. I'm with you on that. You can find the list by the way, the full rundown. For Those interested on ESPN.com I imagine they'll come out with another position group Today, their top 10 ranking. Hey when we come back, Julian Elman had some potential interesting insight on this Texans offense. We'll talk about that next. Payne and Pendergast. Julian Edelman offers up some maybe interesting insight on the Texans offense here in for 2026 pain and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow in for sean alongside Seth Payne. 713-572-4610 to join the conversation on the text line also, so can jump in on the YouTube and Twitch chats as well. Julian Edelman obviously played for the Patriots. Played in that Patriots offense. He was on a podcast here recently and was talking about. Again, I'm trying to find the source here. Oh, it's his own podcast. Okay. I gotta be honest with you. I'm bad at this. I don't keep. Everyone's got a podcast. I can't keep up with all these podcasts and. And who's doing what and who's talking where.
- [132:38]
Seth Payne
I would tell you to just not give a damn. It's. You know, I appreciate your. I appreciate you trying to. Sean does the same thing. Very concerned with being sure that proper credit is given. Screw them. It's on the Internet. It's everybody's.
- [132:52]
Luke Morrow
I usually don't. And I don't give credit, but then I've been around here long enough for not only other people do like. Like Sean will. And then I feel bad or even if I'll. I'll say on air, like from some podcast, and then somebody else will jump in and be like, hey, it was this podcast. So, you know, I'm always guilted into it now shamed into it to give this credit out. So anyways, here's Julian Edelman on his own podcast, whatever it's called, talking about the. The Patriots offense.
- [133:18]
Seth Payne
When you got.
- [133:19]
Luke Morrow
When it was you and Dolan Gronk and JoJo and it was just clicking and you guys could go, no huddle. So often. Oh, that was the best. That was like the strength of, you know, with Chris Hogan and Malcolm Mitchell and Dola, like, we weren't like the most explosive group, but the strength of that team was a smart. Like the. The.
- [133:41]
Seth Payne
Everyone's on the same.
- [133:42]
Luke Morrow
Everyone was smart. It's the beauty of the Earhart Perkins is when everyone's got it. Everyone's. Everyone was on the same page at all times.
- [133:50]
Seth Payne
Yeah, the. The. And I think that's, you know, that echoes everything that anybody's ever said about the Patriots. They have all these versatile players that are so super smart and they know the system. And then, like, with the casual little detail that Tom Brady was the guy that was running the show. Yeah, it's the beauty of the Earhart Perkins system. So whenever you hear somebody say Earhart Perkins, they're basically just talking about the system that New England was using all those years, which is it has a lot to do with the pass protection first and foremost, but then also the concepts that they use and in their play calling, in the pass game, but like a lot of it and being able to get the most out of all of those guys. It does start with having a quarterback who's one of the smartest quarterbacks who's played the game in the history of football. The I this is where, you know, and we're back in that same old boat now, where we're trying to replicate a lot of the things that they did in New England. You know, when KISS area first got here, people were. People are hypersensitive about any notion that, okay, we're just going to try to copy New England. And now we've kind of just slid into like, oh, look at that. All these offensive coaches seem to come out of New England at some point and like, lo and behold, the, the we're trying to replicate what they did with Tom Brady. I think that where, where you get too nervous about that sometimes is in thinking that other teams don't do a lot of those same types of elements when they have veteran quarterbacks. It's usually a process of bringing young quarterbacks along till they get to the point when they're in their 30s, that they can't actually just control the game from behind a line of scrimmage, regardless of whatever you call the system. But that it's the most important thing is that you've got a coordinator that knows how much your quarterback can handle and when to work. Some of these things in that are above and beyond in the higher level, mental functioning type type of stuff. And I think that's where Kaylee probably last year was trying to feel a lot of that out of like, okay, what, what, what, what does C.J. in his first year in the system, what's he capable of doing? What is, what's the offense at large capable of doing? And it's a, it's a lot all at once this year. By the reports out from OTAs and minicamp and everything else, it seems like they're a lot further along in that process. But you just don't know until, until you get out there and play.
- [136:12]
Luke Morrow
And that's what I'm trying to take solace. And that's what I liked from this clip is I've had concerns and you referenced Brandon Scott earlier. I know he's had concerns, we've talked about it, of the lack of explosiveness for this Texans offense. So I did like, at least Edelman said or pointed out, like, hey, you know, we weren't very explosive as an offense, but we Got over that by just being smart. And so, at least for me, that offers up hope of, you know what, it might not be the most explosive offense, but they can make up for that if, if, like you were laying out, they are all on the same page or they are more comfortable and familiar with this offense here in year two that. That can make up for maybe some of the lack of explosiveness that they're going to be dealing with offensively.
- [136:50]
Seth Payne
It works really well if you've got one of the best quarterbacks of all time. Also, that's. I mean, it's red as boy. It's almost. That's where I get. I get annoyed sometimes where people will talk about the system excessively to the point where you're like. It's like telling. It's like telling somebody, oh, just use calculus to figure that problem out. Like, all right, if I don't know calculus, I know there's not much I can do. I mean, like, unless I can go run off to my chat GPT that the, the biggest, the biggest confidence stoker that maybe you can give yourself as a Texans fan is that, man, honestly, everything that Bill O' Brien was teaching DeSean Watson and what they're trying to accomplish really was starting to come to a head and really worked in a lot of ways for Desean Watson in 2020. And ironically enough, it was also the same year in which Bill o' Brien was fired, you know, and that desean would end up having all these other issues off the field. But by that point, desean had kind of. And desean came out of a much more simplistic college system than CJ Stroud did. By that point, desean really had command of everything that Bill o' Brien was trying to teach him and wanted to accomplish to the point where, you know, he had the playbook at his disposal. When he got up to the line of scrimmage, it was just. It was too little, too late. And all of the, all of the GM decisions and roster decisions and everything led up to that, that perfect storm of just, just, just nonsense. But it's not like it's. It's not like it's the impossible thing to learn. And if you don't, you know, nobody's sitting here promising New England Patriots type results. We just want to get to an AFC championship game. First and foremost. I'm not overly daunted by the fact that, like, it's not like Tom Brady's the only guy that can run that system, by the way. It's just he's The. He's the one who's run it the best.
- [138:42]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. Yeah. So good luck trying to. Trying to duplicate that. Exactly. By the way, we haven't. We haven't mentioned it yet. Did you see the Deshaun. Since you mentioned Deshaun Watson, did you see the whole. The Browns thing?
- [138:54]
Seth Payne
What's the latest?
- [138:55]
Luke Morrow
The news yesterday is that records show the Browns are receiving more than $88 million in salary cap credits due to insurance purchased for Deshaun Watson's injuries.
- [139:06]
Seth Payne
Oh, okay. All right. So it's not. It's not hurting them as much, I
- [139:13]
Luke Morrow
guess now, which is that gets credited
- [139:14]
Seth Payne
this season or they just. Oh, no, they're getting back their cash. Yeah. It doesn't matter. Have anything to do with the cash. Right. Or does it?
- [139:21]
Luke Morrow
I. So I guess it goes from 2024 to 2029. So I guess they do get cash, but I think also some cap space for future years, I guess for the next couple years. I don't know. Well, no, that's only if he's in. Yeah, I don't know. Honestly, I don't know. Pro football talk had it. They said cash and cap space, but I'm not smart enough to understand how it helps with cap space. I don't know. But, yeah, it kind of takes some of the fun away from it, though. Like, I want the Browns to be in ruins or be. And be, you know, punished for giving all that. All that money and the guaranteed contract and everything and being having the unmitigated gall to go all in on the guy after all that.
- [139:58]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [139:58]
Luke Morrow
And now they're getting some of the money back because of insurance. That takes away some of the fun for me.
- [140:03]
Seth Payne
So there's like a $4.9 million credit in 2026. So it's nothing like that immediately is bailing them out from that quagmire or anything. It's enough for me that my Mike Florio says he was really confused by all of it and then wrote 2,000 words about it. I'm not going to read that article. I'm just going to tell you when all of a sudden this is the big boon that turns things around for the Browns this year, then I'll pay attention. But until then, I'm. I'm not digging into that man.
- [140:27]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, I'm surprised Florio even admitted that he was confused by it.
- [140:30]
Seth Payne
You know, the injury insurance. That's an interesting one because I never. I never had it when I was a player because it's expensive, like, and, like, to the point where you can see like, yeah, your risk of getting a pretty bad injury as an NFL player is a lot higher than the average person. And I can't remember what the premium was enough that I was like, ah, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna run the. I'm gonna run the. I'll just go ahead and take my chances on this one.
- [140:53]
Luke Morrow
I don't, I don't blame you.
- [140:54]
Seth Payne
It's, it's.
- [140:55]
Luke Morrow
That's, that stuff's, that stuff's tough for, for some of these guys, insurance in general, honestly. And I come from an insurance family, but there's a lot of.
- [141:03]
Seth Payne
Yeah, but your dad's not out there selling Lloyds of London, you know, disability NFL to disability insurance, is he? I'll buy some now. I bet I'm dirt cheap on that. Yeah.
- [141:15]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. Sorry to break it. Yeah. I should have connected you guys decades ago. Yeah. Could have helped. Hey, coming up, I made the case yesterday. We talked through it yesterday. The idea that the Texans, maybe they should be the favored in the afc. Anyways, there's one national pundit who seems to agree with me. We'll hear from him next on the Texans. We'll do it after this. Pain and pender Guess.
- [141:37]
Seth Payne
Hey there.
- [141:38]
Luke Morrow
I'm Kendra Adachi and my show, the Lazy Genius podcast helps you be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. And you get to decide what matters. I'm not here to tell you what to do.
- [141:50]
Seth Payne
I'm here to give you a new way to see.
- [141:52]
Luke Morrow
Episodes of the Lazy Genius podcast are full of compassionate time management tips and permission slips to do what makes sense for you. New episodes drop every follow and listen to the Lazy Genius podcast on the Free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. Oregon parks make an Oregon summer, but what makes an Oregon park? Well, Oregon Lottery Gameplay helps no matter the game megabucks, video lottery or keno funds from lottery games help support parks projects across the state, ensuring they stay safe, accessible and open for all. In fact, discover state park scratches are in way some stores now. It's the perfect way to put a little bit of Oregon's parks in your pocket. The Oregon Lottery. Together we do good things. Must be 18 or older to play lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only. When the right person joins a team, everything changes. Deadlines tighten, momentum builds, chaos settles down. That's why hiring smart matters. Indeed. Sponsored jobs gets you quality candidates when you need them most. Spend less time searching and more time interviewing candidates. Candidates who check all your boxes with Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Less stress, less time, more results. Listeners of this show will get a 75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com podcast. Terms and conditions apply.
- [143:04]
Seth Payne
Need to hire.
- [143:05]
Luke Morrow
This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.
- [143:07]
Seth Payne
Lemonade sings a Pet Insurance customer review My new puppy Swallow the bone. Still a good boy though. I'm glad that I had lemonade. I was paid back quickly and efficiently. Everyone was so nice. Get this pet insurance
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Luke Morrow
and get a quote@lemonade.com pet history that doesn't Suck is a legit, hard hitting American history podcast told through entertaining stories. As we approach America's 250th anniversary, now might be the time to go back and learn how we got here. With more than 200 episodes, you can binge your way decade by decade, defining event to defining event from the founding into the 20th century. Join me, Professor Greg Jackson for History that Doesn't Suck an Odyssey Podcast available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Are the Texans the best team in the afc? I tried to make the case yesterday and then we had this audio that somebody might agree. We'll get to that here on Pain and Pender Gas. We got a few pieces of audio to try to get to here, including from Aaron Shots of Football Outsiders. I'm Luke Morrow in for Sean alongside Seth Payne. You can always text the show 713-572-4610 or get to us also on the Twitch and YouTube chats as well if
- [144:40]
Seth Payne
you ever told you to as I told you not to worry about giving guys credit as much as possible. Aaron Shots with FTN Fantasy now.
- [144:47]
Luke Morrow
Oh, is that what he's doing?
- [144:48]
Seth Payne
Yeah, yeah. He used to be Football Outsiders. Now he's with FTN Fantasy.
- [144:52]
Luke Morrow
Okay.
- [144:53]
Seth Payne
Which is kind of a big deal because he invented dvoa.
- [144:55]
Luke Morrow
Yeah.
- [144:55]
Seth Payne
Which was a football outsider. But he moved on and now he's with. He still does dvoa but it's a behind a paywall.
- [145:02]
Luke Morrow
Oh, I don't like that, to be honest with you. I actually thought he started Football Outsiders as well. I know he's had.
- [145:08]
Seth Payne
I think he did. I think he did he.
- [145:10]
Luke Morrow
Yeah.
- [145:10]
Seth Payne
Yeah. I might be wrong on that, but I think that was his. His baby.
- [145:14]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, I've talked to him before but obviously I don't know him well enough to know these things. Anyways, we seem to be aligned though with the idea of the Texans. Maybe they're the best team in the afc. Here was Aaron Schatz talking about those Texans. Texans. Yeah. I think first of all that we all think too much about those playoff games and not about the regular season. In the regular season, C.J. stroud was an average quarterback on a team that had no running game. Now they should have improved the offensive line. They now have David Montgomery to be the lead running back. They should be getting Tank Dell back for their passing game. And I think that all of that combines to mean that Houston is very likely to be a slightly above average offense. Like 13th, 14th when you put that with the defense that they put on the field, that is the best team in the afc.
- [146:08]
Seth Payne
Yeah. So I mean that's a like that's not like huge just gushing praise or anything. I think it's more respect for the defense if anything else at all. But I do think that there is an element of wherever the Texans offense ranks or what they need to do. Are we reading too much into last year's AFC where a lot of the better quarterbacks were out of it by the final Four and that you just like was the perfect year with Lamar Jackson and Pat Mahomes out of the playoffs that you might be able to just. It's enough to get to the super bowl with an average or a slightly above average quarterback and a really, really good defense. Pages made to the super bowl with a guy that was, I mean I don't know. Drake May in the regular season was an incredible quarterback. In the, in the, in the postseason he was just a kind of a well, whatever quarterback except for a few key critical awesome plays that he made at times. So I, I think that I agree with him that I think the Texans are a lot closer to being an above average offense that it feels but I don't know if that in any given year that's enough that oh because Sam Darnold and let's remember the Seahawks had a really good offense last year too. That it's not just as simple as okay in this day and age all you have to have is an above average offense. I feel like you should be greedier than that and want more than that.
- [147:30]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, I do agree with you on that idea of falling into the trap of last year is the new norm in the NFL and I don't know if that's the case and so maybe I'm the one that's relying on Hopium as I made the case yesterday. That with that said though, I do think there are some big questions or concerns for the top contenders in the AFC and we went through them yesterday. But whether it's new coaches, first time coaches or quarterback injuries or coordinator changes. I know that stuff happens every year in the NFL, but I think each of the top contender in the AFC specifically does have a big question or concern to try to figure out. So I do agree with your overall point, but I think still it remains to be seen or for me personally until proven otherwise, maybe I feel like the AFC is still up for grabs or you know, open for the taking. But I do love what Aaron said. I like the idea of like the bar is so low that he's like, well if this happens, this happens. They might have an average offense. And it's like, all right, you know, we could be average. But it also to your point, like he said, that's how good the defense is. That if the Texans are just average, he said 13th or 14th offense in the league, that could be good enough to be the best team in the afc. That that bar is low because of how good the defense is. And if they were just that last year, they should have been in the Super Bowl. If they only had an average offense
- [148:46]
Seth Payne
in the playoffs, they were the 13th scoring offense in the league last year, at least 13 scoring team. You add in a couple of the defensive touchdowns, whatever. But I think the, I mean so much of that was heavily weighted by a couple of huge games against bad teams and then also, you know, against the Ravens and against the 49ers defense in the state of affairs that it was in, et cetera. But then also, you know, the benefit of getting short fields at times from the defense, the turnover ratio, all of that. It's they might have been the 13 scoring offense, but it was still average at best offense and probably a little bit below average. I think the big thing for me though is that if you could just simply, if you weren't the worst red zone offense in the league, what does that number end up looking like? And I don't think to their credit, I think they lifted themselves up to like 29th in red zone offense. But it was just, it was one of the worst red zone offenses in the league. If you just convert a few of those opportunities and if you can be able to do that without CJ playing any different, but by having a running back in an offensive line that's capable of doing those things, then ACJ looks like the same performance gets you better stats out of cj. But B you're just, you're a more complete and well rounded team without making extreme changes necessarily.
- [150:05]
Luke Morrow
Well, speaking of cj, here's more Aaron shots of talking about how Stroud has has been an above average quarterback. There's guys who have never gotten over the hump until the year that they finally get over the hump. I think when you look at Stroud's performance overall, he is a above average quarterback and that. But if you can give him an average offensive line and we know Nico Collins is great and there's good receivers there and if Tank Dell comes back and everything, that can be an above average offense. Not a really good offense, but at least above average.
- [150:37]
Seth Payne
Now I'm offended by him saying that can't be a really good offense, but no, he was laying out the parameters of. Okay, if you just do all of those things and it's everything that we've been talking about this entire time. I think the biggest thing that. I think the disconnect for a lot of people right now is that it's. It's impossible to wash those playoffs out of your brain.
- [150:55]
Luke Morrow
Yeah.
- [150:56]
Seth Payne
And I think there's people that when they hear somebody say that Aaron shot or there's somebody that C.J. stroud over the course of three years has been an above average quarterback, they just don't believe it. And it's, it's like. And I get that, I understand it. But with the sum total of it all, if you look at it and you include that rookie year and especially the second half of his rookie year, there's. There's far worse situations to be in. But that's not a guarantee that it's going to be that much better in the future.
- [151:27]
Luke Morrow
How much I'm trying to. I'm trying to come up with a way to phrase this. How much value do you put into a playoff game? Like how many regular season games would you say a playoff game is worth? So like two bad playoff games, does that undo just let's say eight regular season performances? Like, like. Can you put a value on how impactful or important playoff games are?
- [151:49]
Seth Payne
I think two bad playoff performances undid 12 regular season performances by CJ this year. Yeah. Or 13. 13 and 13 and a quarter or however many games he actually played. I think that. You know what it did undo though. I think the playoffs especially, it undid all of the things that you wanted to compliment CJ for last year despite it being a lackluster season offensively, I was genuinely impressed by see both in maturity and knowing exactly how to handle game situations. Like to be when a quarterback, no matter who you are, like Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, anybody, they have to be game managers of a sort. It doesn't mean they're game manager Quarterbacks, but you got to manage the game. You got to know when you can and can't take risks. You got to know what to do when you've got a lead in the second half, all of those things. And you got to know when to, when to throw the ball away, when to take the easy, easy receptions on first down. I thought CJ did a great job of growing and developing in that regard as the season went along. And that's why it was such a huge shock that he was the exact opposite guy in the playoffs that instead of, instead of managing bad situations, he made bad situations even worse. You know that the pick six, I don't care the, that tight end fell down on the route on the pick six in the Super Bowl. Eat the ball, take the sack. You know, there's just certain things that he was going above and beyond in making a bad situation even worse. That was, that's it undid for me a lot of that maturity I wanted to credit him with during the regular season because when the, when the, when the screws were really turned all just got flushed out the toilet. And I don't think until, until you see him come back and operate the way he was operating mentally, you know, during the regular season last year. I need to see him operate that way for a few games before I can say that that's the playoffs didn't mean anything.
- [153:50]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, that's a good point. You know, they say a bad first impression that it takes then seven good impressions to remove that bad impression. So I guess it's similar. And when, and those are really bad impressions in the last impressions matter too though.
- [154:05]
Seth Payne
Yeah, these are, it's kind of if you have like an, if you have an awesome life, but then the last 10 years of your life are just absolute misery. Like you go bankrupt, you've got some kind of illness that's just lingering on and everything, it kind of changes. Like if your last, if you live 80 years, but the last 10 years are really, really miserable. It's harder to say. Like, it's hard to remember those first 70 years. Years as awesome as they were.
- [154:32]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, it's true.
- [154:33]
Seth Payne
So I'm told. I don't know. I'm going out in a blaze of glory before that ever happens.
- [154:38]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, I, I, that's why I hate seeing these videos that will go viral online of like the 80 year old working at Walmart and people are asking me like, how could, what happened? How come you're working here? And it's usually unfortunately like health care stuff that put the put them in debt or they went through their savings because the wife got sick or something and. Yeah, it's. It's very.
- [154:56]
Seth Payne
People do that. People go and interview people that are working at Walmart and like shame them for it.
- [155:00]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, but it's like a senior. Yeah.
- [155:03]
Seth Payne
You know, you try to. Okay, that bothers me because I feel like whoever makes those videos is like trying to make a heartfelt video of attention when in reality they're just shaming some old guy that I don't know had some bad financial luck or something.
- [155:16]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, it's true.
- [155:17]
Seth Payne
But.
- [155:17]
Luke Morrow
But I will say the positive that usually comes from those is that then people will start a GoFundMe and like donate money to try to help that person.
- [155:24]
Seth Payne
So they're just going to blow it again. That money to a for year old or something or 20 something. I don't know.
- [155:30]
Luke Morrow
That's also fair. I have thought about that too.
- [155:32]
Seth Payne
I'm taking up base jumping when I turn 70. That's how. That's how I. That's how I'm going to handle the last 10 years.
- [155:38]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, there you go. Really going out. Blaze. By the way, what did Aaron. How did he start that clip? Guys don't get over the hump until they get over the hump. Is that what he said?
- [155:49]
Seth Payne
That's what he said. They don't get over the hump until they get over the hump. We talked about Eli Manning earlier. Eli Manning. I'm not so sure Eli Manning ever actually got over the hump in the regular season, but he was a bad quarterback his first four years, including the year he won a Super bowl until right up until the playoffs. He wasn't a good quarterback, man. But things just kind of all of a sudden clicked for him. Yeah, but what does that mean? Sam Darnold didn't get over the hump until he got to Minnesota later in his career. Geno Smith, it took forever for him to get over the hump. I feel like Baker Mayfield gets thrown into that group sometimes and it's not. I don't think it's fair to Baker Mayfield because. Because he was a guy, people were having the debate about whether they should pay him after his third year. And then he. And then he had that really bad shoulder separation that kind of just threw everything derailed his entire career. So I don't put him in that same boat as Late Bloomer. I think he just had a little bit of a bumpy road.
- [156:41]
Luke Morrow
Right. But yeah, I just. I don't understand the phrasing in the Sense of. Yeah, of course. Like, of course no one gets over the hill until they get over the hill. It's like, I don't get home until I get home. Like, yeah, obviously. You know what I mean? Like, you can't. It seems just like the most obvious statement.
- [156:57]
Seth Payne
Yeah, but, but you know what he's saying, Apply your Yogi Berra logic to it. Like, yeah, don't think too hard about it. It's a Yogi Berra ism where. Oh yeah, I know exactly what he's talking about.
- [157:07]
Luke Morrow
That's right. Also, what stood out to that from that clip, and this is what everyone does. Whenever people talk about the Texans offense and how it might improve this year, everyone always references Tank Dell and his return. Yeah.
- [157:19]
Seth Payne
Yes. Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up.
- [157:21]
Luke Morrow
Do you feel like I was going to ask, do you feel like we're relying too much or the national pundits are relying too much in this idea of like Tank Dell and what he's going to bring to the offense?
- [157:30]
Seth Payne
I do, I do. Because even on the ESPN did their article, they ranked all the, they ranked all the rosters in the NFL and they ranked the Texans as the 9th best overall roster. And I think there was a blurb in there about how they've got Tank Dell coming back, which, yeah, it would be awesome if we knew the Tank Dell was going to come back and be as physically this physically the same guy that he was before his catastrophic knee injury, but we just don't know that. Like, we know he's going to be there in training camp in some capacity. But I'm kind of, that's a, that is a huge found money scenario for me. I'm not banking on it unless it comes to fruition. And wow. Okay, now this is just, this is one more guy that can really threaten a defense. Then you add him to the Malou. But I saw it was in that ESPN write up where they said that, you know, watch Jalen Noel, but if Tank Dell comes back, then that might affect Jalen Knowles usage in the slot. And that annoyed me because Tank Dell's not a slot receiver. But people look at him and because he's small, they think, oh, okay, he must be the slot receiver. And then that just devalues the entire positive blurb that you've just written about the Texans. Now, wait a second. You're big. You're hinging your argument on the return of Tank Dell and him being used in the slot. You got two big issues right there.
- [158:44]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, right. And everyone's Doing it. Everyone brings up Tank Dell of why the offense? I'm with you. I've said it since the injury occurred. Anything you get from him to me is just icing on the cake at this point. Or it's, it's gravy. You'll. You'll take it, but you shouldn't expect it.
- [158:55]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [158:57]
Luke Morrow
Last, last Aaron shots. Audio of this is him talking about the Texans defense. You know, we talk a lot in our books about defense being harder to predict than offense. And the way we show that is that our, you know, our project, our projections are really the average of a range of possibilities. And the projections for defense are all closer to average than the ones for offense are because you could be, you know, you can feel better that a good offense is going to be good. That being said, you can feel about as good that the Houston Texans defense is going to be good as you care about any defense in the league in any year. I mean, they're just consistently good. It's not built on turnovers. It's not built on third downs. It's just built on stopping the other team. We know the talent is good. They didn't lose anybody. The defense just looks fantastic, like it should be really good again this year. So if you have an improved offense with that, you're talking about a serious
- [159:55]
Seth Payne
super bowl contender, you know, and some of that goes back to. We had the listener yesterday say, hey, we were talking about how you got to be careful about just running it back, especially if you're not elite already. And somebody said, well, isn't that what they're doing on defense, just running it back? And I said, no, they're not. They added Caden McDonald, they added Reed Blankenship. But the other part of it too is even if they were just running it back, it is still dicey that, you know, you got to account that some guys are going to take a step backwards or whatever, but they were already elite and running it back. When you're elite, you can have a little bit more confidence in then running it back. Like with the Jaguars last year had an impressive second half of the season offensively, but is that enough to just say, oh yeah, we're running it back with these guys minus Travis Hn and that we're going to be just fine? I think that's, that's a completely different world. With the Texans defense, it is rare that you're a top two defense in the league and you don't lose any of your impact playmakers and that they were able to kind of fill in the margins and some of the weaknesses from last year to boot that that, you know, injuries can destroy any of your best laid plans. But it's really hard to look at that defense and say if they're, if they have the same injury luck that they had last year, yeah, I think they're going to be an elite defense. It's which is dicey when you try to predict defenses.
- [161:17]
Luke Morrow
That's Aaron Schatz and his thoughts on this Texan teams, Texan as he said they might be the best in the AFC coming up. Will, will, will we continue to squander opportunities? Is this the Truman show or the Astros going to be the ones to save us? We'll talk about it next year on Pain and Pendergast. Well, Houston sports continue to squander opportunities. It's Payne and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow in for Sean alongside Seth Payne. You can always join the conversation 713-572-4610 on the text line or YouTube and as well if you are watching on YouTube and Twitch. I did wear I don't even think you can see it because of how I'm sitting, but I did wear my Harford Whaler shirt today in honor of Sean as, as I sit in his seat form and the security guard here was actually very excited. I walked off the elevator in the lobby and he yelled out it was almost startling because it was 5:00am yeah, Harford Whalers. I said, yeah, yeah.
- [162:15]
Seth Payne
Is he an old Whalers fan himself?
- [162:16]
Luke Morrow
I don't think so. Just excited to see the I think he was excited. And I said yeah, I'm from, I'm from Hartford originally. And he said, oh, the land of Moby Dick. And honestly I've never heard, I don't know what that means. I've never heard that. I'm gonna have to Google it. I don't know if Moby Dick has a connection to Connecticut or what. I gotta be honest, I have no idea.
- [162:33]
Seth Payne
That's probably. Yeah, it was like a little whaling town. It was Moby dickfordson, Connecticut. Yeah, that's a. I have no idea.
- [162:42]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, so yeah, that was how the morning started.
- [162:45]
Seth Payne
Do we have a name? If Houston lands an NHL team, there's going to be a lot of, there's going to be a lot of controversy over which whichever name they select and
- [162:56]
Luke Morrow
yeah, that's going to be a big deal.
- [162:57]
Seth Payne
Houston, the Texans is not the most popular name amongst people that grade names of teams. I think, I think it works perfectly. I would have advised against it Just from a branding perspective, I think there's a lot of. A lot of people out there with, like, kind of red and red and blue logos where they call themselves themselves, like Texans plumbing or something, where they kind of skirt the intellectual property laws.
- [163:18]
Luke Morrow
Right.
- [163:19]
Seth Payne
It's tough to. You can't. You can't just slam. You know, you can't claim that a really generic term is definitely linked to the football team, but still, I would just. Yeah, I don't think it's gonna. They're not gonna. They're not gonna go old school and name the. The hockey team the same name as, like, the football team or the baseball team to just try to get a little bit of that extra shine off of it.
- [163:40]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. Chat GBT gives their top choices. Number one, Houston Apollo's.
- [163:46]
Seth Payne
Okay.
- [163:47]
Luke Morrow
Number two, Houston Outlaws. Number three, Houston Cyclones.
- [163:53]
Seth Payne
Okay.
- [163:53]
Luke Morrow
And number four, Houston Wranglers. Do any of those do it for you?
- [163:57]
Seth Payne
No, none of them. None of them really. Do you know what the problem is? I don't like it when they lean too far into the Texas stereotypes. I don't know if stereotypes are like, kind of like the Texas caricature because Houston's so much of a different city than it was even 40 or 50 years ago. I'm cool with leaning into the space program. Yeah. The Outlaws. I feel like. I feel like anything you do that's got any kind of edge to it whatsoever is gonna just get annoying backlash for no good reason. And yet that makes me really want it so that if they do do something with Outlaws or. I don't know. Yeah, just mass anything. I'd be cool. I'll sign on. I'll sign on for whatever passes for edgy these days.
- [164:40]
Luke Morrow
AI says Houston Outlaws would be aggressive without sounding gimmicky. So there's the pitch.
- [164:46]
Seth Payne
Feels a little gimmicky.
- [164:47]
Luke Morrow
It does. It feels very gimmicky, actually. And they said the colors would be black, red, and silver, and that would look fantastic.
- [164:53]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [164:54]
Luke Morrow
So Chat GPT has the whole plan laid out there to get the uniforms going and everything. And then when they become the Outlaws, we'll take credit for it.
- [165:03]
Seth Payne
We gotta. We gotta beat Austin out for getting the NHL franchise.
- [165:06]
Luke Morrow
Yeah.
- [165:06]
Seth Payne
The problem is, I saw. I looked at a list of pros and cons for Houston vs Austin, and it felt like whoever was making the list was operating off of, like, the demographics from Austin in the year 2002. It was like, oh, traffic, traffic. You know, Houston's got horrible traffic. Have you talked to anybody who lives in Austin lately?
- [165:25]
Luke Morrow
Right.
- [165:26]
Seth Payne
Ask Them how thrilled they are with the traffic in Austin there in their daily commute. Their average daily commute isn't that far off from Houston's average daily commute. Yeah, they've caught up. They. A lot of the problems that plague Austin are now just your normal run of the mill. Oh, we're a big city now. We got those same problems. It's. It's a. They're. They. They ain't weird no more. They're just like the rest of us.
- [165:47]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, it's true. Absolutely. And. And the YouTube chat says AI is gimmicky. So take that chat. GPT. So, you know, I was thinking about this. I think the teams here in this city have been offered up great opportunities here in the last really, just 12 months. And they certainly haven't taken advantage. Not even 12 months. Really? This, this, you know, just 20, 26. The last seven months here, six months. But when, when you look back on it, like the Texans, everyone will point to the path that they had in the playoffs. We talked about it earlier. You don't have to deal with Mahomes and Burrow and Lamar, and instead you just got to get through Drake May and then the Broncos backup quarterback. And it's like, ah, what could have been. The Texans should have been in the super bowl. And to this point, you know, that was probably their best chance to reach a Super Bowl. And then you have the Rockets, where in the NBA we have more parody now than ever before. Since the 1970s at least, where eight straight different champions without a repeat, eight unique champions in the last eight years, and the Rockets still haven't been able to get out of the first round. And then you have the Astros, who right now, the American League has the worst winning percentage of either the American League or National League for any season in MLB history. This is the worst league in Major League baseball history, the AL currently this year, and you're getting an MVP season from Jordan. And yet the Astros are still three games under.500, not in first place in what is also a very bad division. It's like, man, we're getting these opportunities right now, just not so far, not taking advantage.
- [167:27]
Seth Payne
So it's the worst AL in the history of the al.
- [167:31]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. Based off of total winning percentage of all the teams in the league. Yeah.
- [167:34]
Seth Payne
Which. Yeah, you know what? I guess that's a little bit unfair. Just because interleague plays only been a thing for a couple of few decades now, since 97. Yeah. So, I mean, like, like before that, it was a sum total of 500 for all. For both leagues. So in the last however many years, it's a really. Yeah. Suffice it to say, it's a bad al. What made me feel better about it is sometimes every now and then, I like to just go back and look at where the farm systems are ranked. And you think, okay, well, Dana Brown's been here a few years now, so clearly the guy who's brought in to restock the farm system has done a lot of great work. So. Since then. And he really has, because in 2024, they were 27th ranked, and now headed into this year, they're the 29th ranked farm system. You know, and at that pace. At that pace, I mean, we're looking at 15 years from now having the best damn farm system in all the land. Okay. I don't care how the al's doing, at that point, we're. We're going to be ready to take them by storm.
- [168:36]
Luke Morrow
That's right. It's like planting a tree where it's like, you know, 15 years from now, it's finally going to give us shade in the backyard.
- [168:42]
Seth Payne
Dana Brown is mature enough to know that he's planting a tree that he will never sit in the shade of. He's just. He's setting off. At some point here, the Astros are going to get up into, like, the. The third quartile of farm system rankings, right?
- [168:55]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, exactly. And that's another reason why I haven't been a Dana Brown guy. And we actually talked about this during the radio thon. But it's the old office space line of, like, what do you do here? Because they brought him in to improve the farm system hasn't done that. The big league team's gotten worse. It's like, okay, what are you bringing to the table? Why are you still around here?
- [169:13]
Seth Payne
Right. No, at some point, it gets past the. I gave everybody, including Click, the benefit of the doubt. When it comes to. Man, it's a whole different scenario trying to maintain something like this. Well, you know, as opposed to building it up. You know, we never got to see Jeff Luno really go through the really difficult part of. Of maintaining something. And who knows how he would have done. I'm guessing you. Good chance you would have been good at it. But they just. Since then, it's just been a steady. It's not a plunge or anything, but it's a steady march down, back towards exactly where they are right now, which is haphazard farm system and a mediocre performance on the field. And I. Yeah, I don't I don't like. I know that I'm not going to. I rarely will get up and act like firing somebody in the middle of a baseball season is the go to answer, because that's just not the way the sport works.
- [170:08]
Luke Morrow
Yeah.
- [170:09]
Seth Payne
But to try to create some kind of impassioned plea that you got to keep a spotter, you got to keep Dana Brown at the end of the season, I just. I can't. I can't go down that route. I've got no. I've got no appetite for that.
- [170:22]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. Yeah. Hard to defend Dana Brown. That is weird about baseball. I also brought this up last week is the fact of, like, they don't want to. And some NFL teams do this as well, depending on the time of year. It's just there's so much time between the end of the NFL season and the draft. But baseball, like, they don't want to disrupt all the prep they did for the draft or even the trade deadline that teams don't want to fire their GMs. I know the Angels did it, but most teams don't want to fire their GMs this time of the year and have some random person now handle the draft. They want that GM who did all the work and they did all the scouting to handle the draft, handle the deadline, and then fire them, which to me almost seems too late. Like you let them make more bad decisions.
- [171:00]
Seth Payne
It is. Yeah. It's almost like, yeah, we got to let the. Let this drunk driver see this thing out before he gets up. Let's. We don't want to screw up his concentration while he's trying to get home. Let's just see if he can get home, and then we'll pull him over. We'll. We'll arrest him in his driveway.
- [171:15]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, exactly. By the way, the other thing that stood out to me, not only the AL is so bad, but as I referenced, Jordan's having this incredible year, and to this point, the Ashers are wasting it. The Astros have two MVPs in their history. Altuve, when they won the world series, was nine years ago, and then Jeff Bagwell in 1994, which was the year they had the strike and they couldn't finish the season. But the Astros, who were in the NL at the time, of course, had the third best record in the nl. So typically, when you have an MVP type of player, you also have good team success. It would be a shame to waste Jordan's, you know, great season so far. But the main reason why I wanted to bring this all up is because I looked back on that Jeff Bagwell season, and honestly, I don't recall this, but he only played 110 games because, again, strike shortened season. I didn't even know they gave out awards for that year, to be honest with you. But he played a hundred. He drove in 116 runs in 110 games. If they played a full year, he might have had 180 RBIs, which would be so absurd. What a year, Jeff.
- [172:17]
Seth Payne
Oh, no. Yeah, well, that's where, you know, that's where you. You give him a little bit of a break when he's on the broadcast talking about RBIs and whatnot. It was. The focus was on different things back then that I. The one thing that's weird about this team this year has been how good they've been with two outs. Like, where it feels like, you know, it might just be random chance or random luck or whatever, but they just. They do. They do some things that feel clutch. And then there's other things they do that. That feel like the exact opposite of clutch. Parade. This is my. This is my one weird complaint. If I were to complain about something good, it's the. Paradise is only challenged nine times with the abs, and he's perfect on it.
- [173:06]
Luke Morrow
Yeah.
- [173:06]
Seth Payne
Where meanwhile, Cam Smith is challenging anything and everything all the time. And he's awful at it, I feel like, with paradise, and I would say Yordan, too, because Jordan's been very judicious with it. With it. With it. With his challenges. Those guys. Hey, man, like, we got to help. We got to get every little bit we can here. And you guys have a really good eye. Just go ahead and challenge a few more times. There are. They're the best in the league at batter challenges, and that's with their best guys not challenging as much as they probably could.
- [173:34]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. I think all teams, obviously, they have their own rules. I think some teams or some players, like you said, Cam Smith, like, way too liberal with it. But I think, obviously it's the situation. But also if it's egregious, then use the challenge. I watched some of these games where, like, that's clearly not a strike, but they're afraid to use a challenge like, say, in the third or fourth innings. If you know it's a ball, like, correct the call and you. And take your chance with the challenge, especially when you have an eye like Paradis. And yet some guys still are hesitant to use a challenge if it's not like, men on base or, you know, whatever. 7th inning. Use it whenever you can correct the call. No defense coming up. Speaking of those Astros, they lost last night. Mike Burroughs got knocked around. Do the Astros actually have a better option at this point? Who would you trust more right now? We'll talk about it next Payne and
- [174:22]
Seth Payne
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Seth Payne
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Seth Payne
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Luke Morrow
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- [176:30]
Seth Payne
There's only one Ozempic.
- [176:33]
Luke Morrow
Yes sir. Wrapping up Tuesday morning, getting ready to hand things off to the fellas of in the Loop, which today is Reggie. He has returned And B. Scott in with him who you heard yesterday. So Brandon Scott in for Lopez and he'll be with Reggie coming up here in just a few moments. We'll catch up with them, find out the question of the day and, and chit chat with those guys in just a little bit. But oh, by the way, I'm Luke Morrow in for Sean and the last Reginald Go.
- [176:59]
Seth Payne
Where was he yesterday? Did he go to Greece again? Italy or wherever the hell he was.
- [177:03]
Luke Morrow
It was Italy for the weddings. I don't know, but I think after doing, you know, 12 hours on Friday, both him and Ron were off yesterday. I feel like that's just like a bait, a baked in vocal maintenance day or something. Just take the day off.
- [177:14]
Seth Payne
Our boss makes Sean take the day if he has a, if they have a. If there's like a Monday night game where, you know, Sean and I on Monday we'll do our show and then we do the pregame show, but then Sean does the post game also. Parker makes Sean take the next, the second to next day off. So like Tuesday we got to be in. Do the post game because that's when, that's. That's when the fields are fertile. But then that next day after that, he, he has to take a break just to be sure that he physically recovers from.
- [177:47]
Luke Morrow
Gotcha.
- [177:48]
Seth Payne
Getting two hours of sleep.
- [177:49]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, all that stuff makes sense. Well, I mean, it does seem. I don't know if there's science behind it, but it does always seem like it's that second day. Like if you wake up after only a couple of hours of sleep, you could get through that day. Okay. I feel like it really catches up to you the following day.
- [178:01]
Seth Payne
You know what? Yeah. You can do anything on zero sleep for one day. Right. When you get into that, when you get into the, that third day that you're. Everything really, really starts to fall apart. The adrenaline's all spent. Yeah. Like whatever, whatever pharmaceuticals you might be using are all spent. Your. Your, your bank accounts bereft because of the pharmaceuticals. And that's time to just settle down and just, you know, regroup.
- [178:27]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I remember the game when they played the Seahawks this past year. It was the second game of a double header on Monday Night Football. And so that was late enough where, where Sean was forced to take the next day off. And I was in with you after that Seahawks game this past year. So. Yeah, it's.
- [178:43]
Seth Payne
I always make Sean feel like a wimp about it. I know. I totally get it. And I think that's. I Might have been the one who recommended it initially, but now I make him. Now I give him a guilt trip over it every single time.
- [178:53]
Luke Morrow
Hey, it's like, I know we're not digging ditches here. We're just sitting talking about sports. But. Yeah, man, I'm Your brain.
- [178:59]
Seth Payne
Your brain just stops working. Right. It's not even. It's not like Sean would gladly do it, but it's just some point. Your brain just stops functioning properly. Yeah. Even somehow, doctors are cool with it, you know? Yeah. There's a. No, the resident who gets three hours of sleep every 36 hours. He'll make all the right decisions. Don't worry about it.
- [179:18]
Luke Morrow
I know. I never got that. And they do like the 12 hour shifts as well. Yeah.
- [179:22]
Seth Payne
They screw up a lot of stuff.
- [179:24]
Luke Morrow
Yeah.
- [179:24]
Seth Payne
They make a lot of brain farts. Okay.
- [179:26]
Luke Morrow
That's all.
- [179:26]
Seth Payne
Don't worry. It's just your pancreas.
- [179:28]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. The nurses in the hospital, I think, right. Aren't they 12 hours shift that by the. Yeah. By the end of that, after you've been working for 10 hours, like, you're bound to be worn out a little bit. Make some mistakes. Doesn't seem ideal. It's always the classic in the old movies from the 70s and the 80s. They just always, like, give the doctors coffee and, like, they'll be fine, you know, just drinking a bunch of coffee and then they go into and do surgery. That's all.
- [179:50]
Seth Payne
I mean, the craziest, if you think about, like, the military knows all of this really, really well. Like, exactly how many more mistakes you start making. You know, as many hours as you've been without sleep. But there's times in war where, like, you have to make life and death decisions as an officer. And you know that you're. Because you've seen all the research, that you've had one hour of sleep in the last 48 hours that it gets dicey, man. I. That's why I never. That's why I chose never to be a colonel in the Marines. I said, you know what? I don't operate well on no sleep. I wrote that on the questionnaire. I was like, no, I don't. Is sleep deprivation going to be a thing here with the Marine Corps? And they're like, yeah, it's sometimes kind of a thing. I was like, ah, I don't know. I don't know if I'm the guy for you.
- [180:34]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. For that reason and only that reason.
- [180:37]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [180:37]
Luke Morrow
Deciding against it. Yeah. On the text line, someone says, I work 12 to 16 hours a day in oil and gas, five to seven days a week. No mercy.
- [180:45]
Seth Payne
Yeah, yeah. No, again, I'm not saying like, I'm not sitting here asking for any sympathy or anything. It's just that it's. You're like, you sound more and more like a dullard the longer you go. For sure when trying to do. It's not, it's not a heart. It's not even a real job. But the performance suffers, right?
- [181:01]
Luke Morrow
But they weren't saying in the texters defense, I didn't finish the text. They, they weren't saying that, you know, like, boohoo, I work harder. He was saying, I listen to six, ten, wire to wire. I love you guys.
- [181:10]
Seth Payne
Oh yeah, thanks man.
- [181:11]
Luke Morrow
I appreciate you and appreciate your hard work out there. Take a day off every once in a while, will you? Working 16 hour days all week, that's crazy.
- [181:19]
Seth Payne
16 hour day.
- [181:21]
Luke Morrow
So you can't, you can't do anything
- [181:23]
Seth Payne
then you're not gonna get more than. How many days does he work in a 16 hour day?
- [181:27]
Luke Morrow
Well, he said 12 to 16 hours, five to seven days a week. I mean, you're just working the whole week. You have no downtime.
- [181:34]
Seth Payne
You got a pension plan.
- [181:36]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, I hope so.
- [181:37]
Seth Payne
That was like those lines, you know, the linemen that work on utilities and everything, they tend to have pretty good pensions. But it's a brutal job. They have to do that. Like when the storms come around, they're working three days straight with no break. A lot of the time and it's like, you're cool. The overtime is great, but I, I gotta sleep for three days to recover from this. Yeah.
- [181:56]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. It's fair. Yeah, certainly. Well, we'll see. You know, I'm somebody who, I'm not used to getting up so early, so even just doing this all week, getting up at 4am all week, we'll see how I'm faring by Friday.
- [182:06]
Seth Payne
I failed the lineman exam because I said I didn't like heights. That was, that was the big barrier for me. I was like, can I only work on low hanging wires? I said no. Sorry, Seth, that's not, that's a disqualifier. It's a no for us.
- [182:19]
Luke Morrow
I like this bit where there's just one thing, like one, one.
- [182:22]
Seth Payne
The one minor detail that keeps you out of jobs of everything.
- [182:25]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, I like that. Hey, texter also made me aware that today's national Rock and Roll day. So throw on a record this afternoon after you're done listening to 6:10. We did actually, a few weeks back. Figgy Got the list of the top 10 rock bands according to Ben, and we went through it on in the Loop. Ben, what did you say? What's the number one rock band?
- [182:46]
Seth Payne
This is according to just Ben and Ben's opinion.
- [182:49]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, I think I said it was Metallica. Ah, he said Metallica. Good band, but I wouldn't put number one.
- [182:56]
Seth Payne
Who would be your number one rock band?
- [182:59]
Luke Morrow
Well, so I've had this conversation or this debate with Lopez before because he says they're pop, they can't count. But I would still say the Beatles.
- [183:08]
Seth Payne
Oh, okay. No, it's rock and roll, though. The Church achieved pop success, but it's still rock and roll.
- [183:15]
Luke Morrow
And that's the low hanging fruit. But I gotta go with the Beatles and then probably Rolling Stones. Personally, I like the Rolling Stones more than the Beatles, but I think the Beatles have to be one. I do. Rolling Stones, too.
- [183:25]
Seth Payne
Did he say that the Rolling Stones weren't pop but that the Beatles were?
- [183:30]
Luke Morrow
Beatles were. Yeah, Beatles were excluded. Rolling Stones counted.
- [183:32]
Seth Payne
Okay. Huh. That's interesting. I forget to hear actual, like, people that actually know something weigh in on that.
- [183:38]
Luke Morrow
I forget Lopez did a list too. I think after we did the. Did Ben's top 10. Lopez made his own top 10. And I forget who he had number one, but he didn't have the Beatles on the top 10. And when I asked why, he said, they're pop, they don't count for rock and roll. So. But I've always considered them number one. Led Zeppelin would be right there, too. And the Rolling Stones, I think, are the top three in whatever order you want to put them in. But those should probably be the three best rock and roll bands.
- [184:02]
Seth Payne
If it's got a guitar and it's got a backbeat, it's rock and roll. Let's not overthink this, all right?
- [184:07]
Luke Morrow
By the way, and the Beatles, yes, some of their stuff was poppy, but if you listen to some of the later stuff, you know, like Don't Let me down or Heavy, I'm trying to think of that last album especially. I'm trying to think of songs off the top of my head. They had some. Some harder stuff in their later years. So. Happy National Rock and Roll Day. Hey. The Astros lost the opener last night to the Nationals, 12 to 11. And they'll play tonight. Game two, 5:45. First pitch with. With Ima on the mound. You know, we opened the show talking about the Astros loss last night and Mike Burrows and how this just doesn't seem to be sustainable. Where Burrows now has a six ERA. EMA's ERA is over six himself. It's hard when you're already three games under.500 trying to battle back and you have two starters in your rotation. With ERAs at six or higher, it's hard to come back from. But I guess my question would be like at this point, what internal options do you trust more to try to fill those voids and help this team the rest of the way?
- [185:10]
Seth Payne
Right. Okay. So I mean with Burrows, I'm just, I'm waiting for, I'm waiting for the guy to emerge and maybe it's Christian, Javier, maybe it's. I can't. I mean Lance could come in and pitch three no hitters and you're still going to be nervous about exactly what's going to happen. So then you're with, you've got Blanco and Hayden Wisneski that maybe one of those guys can come in and be a revelation. I think Imai is the one that I'm still just hoping that, man, if he can just iron out these, these last little. Remember, remember the minor details that keep you out of a job like the Marine Corps. I don't like, I don't like not getting enough sleep being a linesman. I don't, I don't like hustle heights. I feel like with Emi, if you want to be taken seriously as a starting pitcher, you have to more consistently make it out of the first or second inning. It's just one my, one of my hanging little. One of my little, you know, perfectionist traits. I like my starting pitchers to go more than two innings more regularly than EMI does. If you could just iron that part of it. I'm, I'm excited about emi.
- [186:13]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. That's all. If he could just get that one thing under control and we'll see. Tonight's a big test because, I mean we just saw it for Burrows last night. But this is a national team that, as we've discussed the last 36 hours, they're one of the best offenses in baseball and it's in their ballpark tonight. So this is a real test for him, especially after we saw from Burrows he'd like a nice bounce back start tonight.
- [186:33]
Seth Payne
That was a. You know what, And I'll credit, I'll credit Burrows at least when Burroughs has these horrendous early innings he does at least try to fight through it and at times has in the past with Imai, I just, I like before for just getting the boot that early in these games and I understand just the adjustment and everything else that goes with It. There is an element of, like, all right, well, welcome to the big leagues, man. You're just going to set to sit here and deal with it for the next couple of innings at least, and we're not going to screw over our entire bullpen for. For you struggling in the first couple of innings.
- [187:07]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. Which is one of my pet peeves in baseball. I know it's a long season. You don't want to burn guys out, but I hate how often managers might throw in the towel on certain games.
- [187:14]
Seth Payne
You don't like that as much? Yeah, no. Yeah. You got Lance McCullers in the Phillies World Series. I mean, just. Just sitting out there and taking it for the team, you know, and like, that was. That was one of the most important things that anybody did in that. That was one of the most important things that had to happen. I don't want to heap a whole bunch of praise on him for having a bad performance, but, like, like, Lance just kind of understood, Yep, I'm going to sit out here and I'm going to eat as many innings as possible and keep the rest of the pitchers healthy for. Because that's our big advantage in this series right now.
- [187:46]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, yeah, I get it more so in a playoff series. But, you know, like, in July, you can call. You can send somebody down, call up somebody else tomorrow for that bullpen spot. Like, let's try to win ball games, especially when you're three games under.500 still, by the way, I said this earlier, but only one team in the wild card ERA has made the playoffs with two starters having ERAs over five. And it was the Cardinals who actually went on to win the World Series that year. Or actually that was over six, I think was the parameters. Over six eras. The Cardinals did it, but Mark Mulder got pulled from the starting rotation around this time of the year after allowing 10 runs in a game. Mike Burrows just allowed 10 runs last night. We'll see if. If he gets pulled from the rotation here at the All Star break when
- [188:30]
Seth Payne
they made the trade, who to? The Cardinals, which was the trade.
- [188:32]
Luke Morrow
And then they brought in. Yeah. Jeff Weaver, who, funny enough, he had had over a 5 era in the regular season with the Cardinals, but then pitched really well in the playoffs for him.
- [188:40]
Seth Payne
Yeah. Yeah. So Weaver could be like, which for. For us, it's not trade guys as much as, okay, maybe Blanco ends up being that guy.
- [188:49]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, that's your.
- [188:50]
Seth Payne
This is the second year in a row I've been saying, hey, guys, let's just treat these guys returning from the IL like, those are our big trade deadline moves.
- [188:58]
Luke Morrow
That's right. Maybe it'll work out. Out this year. Yeah. Four out of six starters for the Cardinals that year had ERAs over five and they won the World Series. It's crazy with that. Let's welcome in the fellas from in the loop. Reggie's back in the house today. Well, you're telling me we're not getting Tarek scubal? No, I don't think so. Come on, guys. Not even Sonny Gray?
- [189:16]
Seth Payne
We were this close.
- [189:17]
Luke Morrow
Yeah.
- [189:18]
Seth Payne
Thought we had him right where we were. We've worked our way up to being the 27th farm system in baseball. Man, we don't need to hold on to these prospects.
- [189:26]
Luke Morrow
Use it immediately.
- [189:27]
Seth Payne
It's better than 28th. Start taking these guys away before we. Yeah, well, the going, the getting's good.
- [189:33]
Luke Morrow
Seth, you exist in a. As an anomaly, at least in my brain. So much so that obviously you can be very, like, level headed and reasonable, but also you can seem very impulsive.
- [189:43]
Seth Payne
Have you ever been the dude who
- [189:44]
Luke Morrow
immediately got his check in and then spent it down to cents on the dollar? Like, have you ever been that person in your life?
- [189:51]
Seth Payne
Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say, I mean, yeah, I had a lot of credit. I had a lot of credit card debt when I got drafted because I went. I was going all in on everything that summer. Like, I didn't usually in the summers. I worked a summer job and everything. That was the first year that, like, I like, nope, I'm not working this summer because I didn't have a scholarship or anything. So I was like all in on making it to the NFL. And I lived off a credit card for. For a good chunk of the year. And thank God I got drafted. Yeah, Then I would have been in the Marines. And you know how I hate missing sleep.
- [190:28]
Luke Morrow
As we just heard, crosswalk sponsored by DNM Auto Leasing. Also, you've already heard the voice, but Brandon Scott in for John Lopez today. Guys, before we get to the question of the day, I mean, I guess we were just talking about it with the Astros. Oh, I don't know if this is going too far, but I did ask earlier, who would you trust more than Mike Burroughs? And somebody on the text line said, Helen Keller trying to play the piano backwards.
- [190:50]
Seth Payne
So there's a good chance she was actually able to do that. So I say Ray Charles driving as my Uber driver.
- [191:00]
Luke Morrow
I would go with Stevie Wonder because as we all know, he's not.
- [191:02]
Seth Payne
That's cheating.
- [191:03]
Luke Morrow
That is correct. That's cheating.
- [191:04]
Seth Payne
Yeah, because he's not blind.
- [191:05]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. Which guy would you most prefer to be in the rotation over Burrows at this point if you were to make a change for the Astros?
- [191:11]
Seth Payne
Yeah, it feels.
- [191:12]
Luke Morrow
Who would you trust most? It feels weird to say, but Javier. And I don't have any justification for it. I don't feel like there's a real argument for it except for history, pedigree
- [191:22]
Seth Payne
and just a trust as a fan and as somebody that's watched him.
- [191:26]
Luke Morrow
Like the way Javier was pitching before his injury earlier this year does not justify that answer.
- [191:31]
Seth Payne
But I just don't.
- [191:32]
Luke Morrow
It's more about Burrows than it is Javier.
- [191:35]
Seth Payne
I think the Javier piece of it
- [191:36]
Luke Morrow
is just, again, that background trust. But tell me, what would be the justification for Mike Burrows at this point in the rotation?
- [191:42]
Seth Payne
Like earlier in the season when it.
- [191:44]
Luke Morrow
When it wasn't good?
- [191:45]
Seth Payne
I guess that's it. No, that's like.
- [191:46]
Luke Morrow
That is. It is that he get. He'll get you to five or six, regardless.
- [191:50]
Seth Payne
Yeah. And so make them put him in the bullpen.
- [191:53]
Luke Morrow
Make him a long relief guy and he can be an innings eater of some sort. Low leverage.
- [191:56]
Seth Payne
Maybe he's your new Nate Pearson.
- [191:58]
Luke Morrow
I don't know.
- [191:58]
Seth Payne
But like I just earlier in the
- [192:00]
Luke Morrow
season when he was unlucky, y' all remember that, when he was. Oh, it's not so bad.
- [192:05]
Seth Payne
It's just that he's not. He's having real bad luck. Yeah.
- [192:07]
Luke Morrow
Well, we're so far past that to where I just don't know what the logical justification would be to keep him around in the rotation.
- [192:14]
Seth Payne
That is.
- [192:14]
Luke Morrow
Right. Yeah. I'm with you. And that one strength. The innings eating he can just do in the bullpen, like you said. Yeah, I'll take Javier. Okay, fair enough. Christian Javier, I got the questions about. About the Javier, as you mentioned, right. The way that you pitched earlier in this year, so on, so forth, in a weird way, and he is seeming like he's on the precipice of returning. It might be Reno Blanco for me, and I realize that this is entirely Vibes based, but you know, Lance McCulloch Jr. Even though they as a team still seem to be continuing to operate as if that's a serious, serious way of going about this, I don't think anybody outside of the organization for the Astros is taking that particularly seriously. And so Christian Javier. I don't know. For some reason I am. I am skeptical on the return, even though I am hopeful. Reno Blanco feels like there's still upside there for some reason in my brain. And so I would like to see what that upside potentially is Even though
- [193:03]
Seth Payne
in 2024, Blanco had a 2.8 ERA and 160, and then it was, you know, in 2025, it wasn't as good a year, but it was still. He still finished with a better era, both ERA and expected ERA than Mike Burroughs has right now. You know, so, like, he's got. He's had a heavier workload in his career than Mike Burroughs has had. And, you know, in his best season, he's a 2.80 ERA. In 2025, in only 48 innings, he had a 4.1 ERA, which isn't atrocious or anything. That's like a. A just about an average Major league baseball pitcher.
- [193:37]
Luke Morrow
The atrocious thing in that season was that he walked everybody inside.
- [193:40]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [193:41]
Luke Morrow
You know, and so that's the thing.
- [193:42]
Seth Payne
Where is that? Is it cool to just have the
- [193:44]
Luke Morrow
same issue that you had previously had and hope that he can join in with the fix that seemingly everybody has of just throwing strikes? Right. That's the thing that I'm, I guess, hanging my hat on, so to say.
- [193:53]
Seth Payne
Yeah. Yeah. No, no, I don't think. I feel like. I don't feel rock solid confident in any of the potential options. Right.
- [193:59]
Luke Morrow
No, that's. Yeah, that's the problem. But.
- [194:00]
Seth Payne
But all of them, though, I feel.
- [194:02]
Luke Morrow
Feel better than I do Mike Burroughs.
- [194:04]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [194:05]
Luke Morrow
Like, I could have lived with any
- [194:06]
Seth Payne
answer that any of us gave just
- [194:07]
Luke Morrow
now over the one that they have right now. Yeah, we'll get to that. More so here at 10:20. Oh, I'm sure I gotta go find their Jeff Weaver. Let me get this out of the way. You're listening to K I l t a m k I l t f m h d 2. Houston and Aussie sports station. To keep with tradition, what's the question of the day today? Yeah, the question of the day. Inspired by that ass whooping that the United States men's national team took in the World cup around of 16, jettisoning them from the tournament. What's another time that you were embarrassed in front of company? Because that's what that was, right? We, as Americans, especially those of us
- [194:38]
Seth Payne
that had the audacity to get a
- [194:39]
Luke Morrow
little excited about this team, got to sit up there and watch the entire of the world go, damn, this is what y' all thought. Like, this is what y' all thought was gonna win?
- [194:46]
Seth Payne
Well, I mean, I'll tell you one thing. I was. I was very loud after the Steelers playoff victory. And saying that this is C.J. stroud is not a Guy who's careless with the football. And I would never expect that somehow he would be careless with the football two weeks in a row if, in fact, in his career, he'd rebounded from being careless with the football pretty well and learned lessons. And I could not have been any more wrong on anything I've ever said than that. So that was embarrassing for me personally. Yeah, I'm right there with Seth. I did that. I did the exact same thing. Defended CJ Stroud all the way down.
- [195:27]
Luke Morrow
All the way down.
- [195:28]
Seth Payne
And look, it's not up to. It's not up to him to defend
- [195:31]
Luke Morrow
my honor or anything. It's just that I believed it wholeheartedly
- [195:35]
Seth Payne
and could not have been more wrong, as Seth says.
- [195:38]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, I've been trying to think. I think I just block out all my embarrassingly bad memories. I usually do, too. But this is an opportunity for you to dredge that up and relive it.
- [195:46]
Seth Payne
Hopefully.
- [195:47]
Luke Morrow
Maybe. Maybe settle them in a better way mentally and emotionally. Yeah, I've been trying to think. Yeah.
- [195:52]
Seth Payne
The most embarrassing for me personally, it wasn't like people had high expectations for me or anything, but I was wrestling. When I had to wrestle varsity as a freshman in high school, you guys have to realize I was 5 foot 7, 132 pounds, and I was wrestling up a weight class at 138 against, you know, kids that were, like, basically, like, at their adult maximum height and weight. And I got my ass kicked so badly. And there's nothing worse than just getting your butt kicked in front of all of your classmates and their parents at a high school wrestling match, like, while you're wearing your singlet. And it's just. It's rough, man. You're trying to. You're trying to bridge out of a half nelson. And you can. You're looking at all your friends upside down, Some of them that don't look all that unhappy for you. It's. It's embarrassing, man. It's a. It's a character building.
- [196:44]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, I could imagine. I'm sure I have plenty of sports ones. I was no athlete, so anytime. Anytime I was out there, it was
- [196:50]
Seth Payne
5 foot 7, 132 pounds, Seth Payne.
- [196:53]
Luke Morrow
And look. Yeah, well, look, you got. You got the last laugh. Look how you turn.
- [196:57]
Seth Payne
That's right.
- [196:58]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know.
- [197:00]
Seth Payne
Thing ever was, man, as some kid, I was weighing in next to this kid, and, you know, this guy was at. He was at his max adult height. Most of his guys, those guys would suck down, like £20, you know, To. To make weight. But he had tattoos. And this is before everybody had tattoos. But he looked like he just got out of the Merchant Marine or something. And, boy, he just beat the crap out of me. I'm gonna. I'm gonna go find that guy. I'm gonna go find whichever halfway house he's living in and just destroy his world.
- [197:27]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, in what way are we. Are we enacting violence? Are you gonna, like, go for mental warfare? I'm very curious.
- [197:32]
Seth Payne
I'm gonna beat him up in front of his wife. Excellent.
- [197:34]
Luke Morrow
Good stuff. That's been the theme. Yesterday was somebody you punched at, like, a peewee football game. You wanted to find now today, this kid.
- [197:41]
Seth Payne
So, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna find that kid. That kid might be able to have grounds to sue me or something.
- [197:47]
Luke Morrow
The Seth revenge tour sounds like something I very much wanna be a part of somehow.
- [197:50]
Seth Payne
Except yesterday's was not Seth revenge.
- [197:53]
Luke Morrow
It would have to be revenge from the other guy. Yeah, I guess that's fair. It was doubling down. Yeah.
- [197:58]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [197:59]
Luke Morrow
Going back for more. Exactly. All these years later. Well, I look forward to finding out what tomorrow brings. Seth, appreciate it. Always good to. With you. We'll do it again tomorrow.
- [198:06]
Seth Payne
Wait, did I cut off your embarrassing moment?
- [198:08]
Luke Morrow
No, I don't. I honestly didn't think of one. I'm trying to. I'm trying to. Copping out. I don't. You didn't break a free throw in seventh grade that cost your team a game like I did. Yes, thank you very much. That's the reminder right there. So my brother played college basketball, and I grew up in Connecticut, and they played UConn, so that was a big deal. And so I was at the Civic center in Hartford, Connecticut, and we had friends and family and we had a big crowd. And, like, you know, it's the only show in town, so. The high school. I was in high school. The high school teachers were there. Everyone was there there. And I happened to get picked with a friend of mine to do the free throw shooting competition during one of the timeouts. And, yeah, I didn't make a single one.
- [198:45]
Seth Payne
Oh, no.
- [198:46]
Luke Morrow
We were both on the high school basketball team, too. He was better than me. He beat me one. Nothing, though. We both were breaking that. I didn't make a single file shot in, like, whatever. They give you 30 seconds and you're the dude that I absolutely hate, where I'm like, hey, man, you didn't. You didn't work on this at all. I know. It was bad. And I was like, mid season. I was on the high school team. I was, I just choked. I choked in the mold. People that you were on the high school team. No. Okay, good.
- [199:09]
Seth Payne
That, that would have sucked if coming up.
- [199:11]
Luke Morrow
Oh, yeah. From the local high school team, these guys. And then they're just missing. That's even more embarrassing that that based
- [199:15]
Seth Payne
off of your free throw shooting that
- [199:17]
Luke Morrow
nobody could watch you and even be
- [199:18]
Seth Payne
able to tell that you were on.
- [199:20]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I completely choked. And again, friends, family, high school, like everyone was there because my brother is in town and whatnot and everything. And yeah, it was, it was bad. So I, I, I blocked that out until just now. So thank you for the reminder.
- [199:32]
Seth Payne
You're welcome.
- [199:32]
Luke Morrow
You're welcome. It's like Frank Reynolds and it's always sunny where he says, you cracked me open. Open. And then all these terrible memories come back. Hey, I'm just glad we did it
- [199:39]
Seth Payne
to somebody else because I've told Ridge and John that too many times. The question of the day is like
- [199:45]
Luke Morrow
a little too inside. It like strikes a nerve.
- [199:48]
Seth Payne
And I'm like, you know what? I didn't want to consider this thing today. And I'll be like stuck with the question of the day, like way too deep into it in my head, like,
- [199:57]
Luke Morrow
oh, thanks a lot, guys. Yeah, exactly. Well, that's today. I look forward to 1040 to hear more.
- [200:02]
Seth Payne
Tomorrow we'll list the 10 people we have most disappointed in our lives. That's right. Yes.
- [200:07]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, look forward to that as well.
- [200:09]
Seth Payne
Sorry, dad.
- [200:10]
Luke Morrow
Seth, I'll talk to you tomorrow morning.
- [200:12]
Seth Payne
Appreciate everybody's. Enjoy being curled up in the shower all afternoon as you try to wash away those memories.
- [200:17]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, exactly. Sounds good.
- [200:19]
Seth Payne
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- [200:35]
Luke Morrow
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- [200:39]
Seth Payne
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Luke Morrow
There's a reason Chevy trucks are known for their dependability.
- [200:50]
Seth Payne
It's because they show up no matter the weather, put push forward no matter the terrain and deliver.
- [200:55]
Luke Morrow
That's why Chevrolet has earned more dependability
- [200:57]
Seth Payne
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Luke Morrow
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- [201:00]
Seth Payne
Because in every Chevy truck, like every Chevy driver, dependability comes standard.
- [201:05]
Luke Morrow
Visit Chevy.com to learn more. Chevrolet received the highest total number of awards among all trucks. In the J.D. power 2025 U.S. vehicle Dependability Study awards
- [201:11]
Seth Payne
based on 2022 models.
- [201:12]
Luke Morrow
Newer models may be shown. Visit JD Power.com awards for more details.
- [201:15]
Seth Payne
Chevrolet Together, let's drive.
- [201:19]
Luke Morrow
Hey y'.
- [201:19]
Seth Payne
All.
- [201:20]
Luke Morrow
Poodle and Matty here from Reality Gaze.
- [201:22]
Seth Payne
Grab your favorite thong because time we're
- [201:25]
Luke Morrow
heading to the villa for the new season of Love island usa. I can't wait to watch Ariana babysit these shiny, oiled up adults who I'm pretty sure aren't there for the right reasons. From the home wrecking bombshells to the absolute wreckage of movie night, pull up a daybed and join us every Wednesday for all the Love Island USA drama. Find Reality gays wherever you get your podcasts, now is your time to get into a new Dr. Horton home by taking advantage of its national Red Tag Sales event this Friday, July 10th 10th through Sunday, August 2nd. Stop by any of its participating communities and find select Red Tag homes at incredible pricing. So whether you're buying your first home or looking for an upgrade, you don't want to miss the Red Tag Sales event starting this Friday. Discover the Dr. Horton Difference. Visit Dr. Horton.com Dr. Horton America's Builder and Equal Housing Opportunity Builder there's only one Ozempic hello, I'm Ozempic. Because this ad is 30 seconds, I can't get into everything I'm FDA approved to do, so I'm just going to play my jingle again. But first ask your doctor about which FDA approved uses of me. The Ozempic pen may be right for you. Call 1-833-OZEMPIC or visit ozempic.com to view the medication guide and learn more about Ozempic. Semaglutide injection 2mg. Only Novo Nordisk makes FDA approved Ozempic. Now here's that jingle again.
- [202:45]
Seth Payne
There's only one Ozempic.