← Payne & Pendergast
Payne & Pendergast
HOUR 1 - Astros Lose 8-2 What's Their Biggest Need? + Anderson & Hunter Top 10 Edge Rushers + Headlines
00:43:06
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- [00:01]
Seth Payne
My day kicks off with a refreshing Celsius energy drink. Then straight to the gym, pre K
- [00:05]
Luke Morrow
pickup back home to meal prep.
- [00:07]
Seth Payne
Time for my fire station shift.
- [00:09]
Luke Morrow
One more Celsius.
- [00:10]
Priceline Announcer
Gotta keep the lights on when the three alarm hits.
- [00:12]
Seth Payne
I'm ready.
- [00:13]
Luke Morrow
Celsius Live Fit.
- [00:15]
Seth Payne
Go grab a cold, refreshing Celsius at
- [00:18]
Luke Morrow
your local retailer or locate now@celsius.com.
- [00:23]
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- [00:45]
Luke Morrow
Rally the crew.
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- [00:53]
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- [01:23]
Luke Morrow
SportsRadio 610 presents Seth Payne and Sean Pendergast.
- [01:28]
Seth Payne
We coming to eighth time. Let's get the work in, man.
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Oregon Lottery Announcer
Let's go.
- [01:31]
Luke Morrow
Great.
- [01:31]
Seth Payne
Hey, great. Oh, give me some juice, baby.
- [01:35]
Luke Morrow
Oh, yeah, let's do it. Happy Thursday. Appreciate you starting the morning with us, Payne and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow, in for Sean alongside Seth Payne. Ben, Gary on the steel wheels. As always, you can always join the conversation in the YouTube and Twitch chats on the text line.
- [01:57]
Seth Payne
What's that about steel wheels?
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Luke Morrow
Ben's running things on the steel wheels.
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Seth Payne
Oh, the steel. I've never heard that before. Okay. No, yeah, I like that.
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Luke Morrow
Yeah, it's the freight. You know, everyone always says ones and
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Seth Payne
steel wheels are the 808. So the. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ben's rolling on 20s. He's doing everything.
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Oregon Lottery Announcer
That's right.
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Seth Payne
He's.
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Luke Morrow
He's. He's got the wheels of steel back there and, and keeping us on the track here, making sure everything goes smoothly. Everyone says ones and twos, you know, so and so on the ones and twos, but for the purpose of sports radio, not so much. I think that's more of a music thing.
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Priceline Announcer
Right.
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Luke Morrow
And then. And it's also kind of over. Everybody uses ones and two. So I go, steel wheels.
- [02:36]
Seth Payne
That's a, like the Astros pitching with their ones and twos. Who's their best pitcher, second best pitcher, fifth best pitcher at any given time, they're, they're, they're going one or two innings maybe. Hey, if you could get, if you could get to five innings, if any, if any of these guys facing the Nationals could get through five innings, it would have been a damn miracle. But we sit here in the wasted, the wasteland of national series, where your three pitchers, just 1, 2, 3, were absolutely abysmal and a disaster. And we're now, we're just wondering what the hell the Astros are going to do about it.
- [03:15]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, it's. Who do you feel good about at this point? Right. I mean, so the Astros lose yesterday 8 to 2. Spencer Arrighetti got knocked around. He now has an ERA of 8.74, so nearly nine in his last seven starts. For Arrogetti, after he started so great, this is a sharp regression to the mean. So we've been talking the last couple days about, like, Burrows ime, and we never really pondered Araghetti, but he continues to scuffle. I don't feel so great about him anymore. There's not a lot of guys you feel very good about in this rotation at this point as we head towards the All Star break as the Astros
- [03:50]
Seth Payne
end up losing that series, Arighetti, I mean, we talked about Arighetti just because this is what he does. He goes through these streaks of good and bad, and like he's, it looked like he might have been lifting himself out of a bad streak, but then he was right back in it last night. And I, I keep reminding myself that the Nationals are the. They've scored the most runs in Major League Baseball, or at least top 10 at any given time. And it's potent. But you'd like to think, okay, if this is a team that you're going to make aggressive moves at the deadline, that it's worth it and that you can actually, you can slug it out with teams like the Nationals, who aren't even a good baseball team. They're just, they've got a really good offense and they've got paltry pitching. And it, like right now, it just does. It does. After that Series, this is not a team that feels like, oh, yeah, just with a couple little tweaks. Here we go. We're off to the races. And we're stuck in a position yet again where just like last year when Dana Brown was saying that these guys coming off the il, that's kind of where we're hoping to get a boost in the pitching. And like, it's been a steady procession of guys coming back from the IL this year. And so far as we wait and see Hunter Brown get back into form, the trips back from the IL haven't done a damn thing for the starting pigeon.
- [05:09]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, Javier pitched last night, just an inning at the end of the game. He looked okay. He's looked okay in his two appearance. Not great.
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Seth Payne
Might get a start on Sunday.
- [05:17]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, that's the weird thing. Dana Brown is playing it very close to the vest. He said Javier might be an option. I think he said Blanco. What was the phrase he used? Something like has an outside shot of being the starter on Sunday. Something along those lines. They haven't mentioned Lance McCullers name publicly that I've heard they talked about was Neski. Yeah. And that Triple A pitching prospect. I'm drawing a blank on his name at the moment, but he was just the pitcher of the month last month at Triple A. There's about him potentially as an option, as a spot start for Sunday, so we'll see who actually gets gets that start. But all those names he mentioned, the guys already in the rotation, like, how many do you trust? We obviously don't trust Burroughs. That's why he's in Triple A. I don't think we trust IME a whole lot at this point. I don't know if we can trust Araghetti. And then because of those injuries, like, how much faith or trust can we really put in Javier and Blanco and McCullers and was Neski.
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Seth Payne
Yeah.
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Luke Morrow
You know, and Lambert's another guy pitching really well. But then it's like, yeah, but you're kind of waiting for that other shoe to drop because he just hasn't done this over the course of an entire season. Hunter Brown's the only one, but even he hasn't been great since coming back from the. From the injury. I don't know who or how many you can trust right now in the starting rotation.
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Dr. Horton Announcer
The.
- [06:33]
Seth Payne
At the very least, there's no way. I just. I have a really hard time envisioning right now feeling good about Imai at any point during this season. And even if he gets better, the thing that's bothered me the most about him, honestly, is that Burroughs. Burroughs or Araghetti or anybody else will sit out there and they'll just take their Medicine. I the. That. All right, you're having a rough day. But, you know, we just flat out, we can't. We can't afford to just be burning up our relievers every single night, and they sit out there and they take their medicine. Imai, I like, in the times that he's been pulled after one or two or three innings, it's not like he's racked up a pitch count up into the high 80s or anything. He's been pulled with 37 pitches. He's been pulled with 30 in the 30s a couple of times, in the 50s once. That's where I'd start to get to a point. I was trying to evaluate myself in these situations. If I were an Astros player, where you're trying to always be a good dude and not criticize your teammates and everything, I would say I would be internally grumbling right now when. When Imai goes out there and it's not going well for him and he gets yanked. And meanwhile, maybe I'm a guy that's been left out there to die just to try to preserve the bullpen no matter how bad my performance is and everything. Like, there's a. There's almost. There's just. There's the performance side of things, but then there's also the, all right, man, you made this mess. You got to deal with this. Instead of treating them like, yeah, like all these additions that Dana Brown made in the off season where he just threw numbers at it, let's bring in all these starting pitchers, and Lambert's the only one that's really worked out that. That there's like, at some point, what are you going to do to get yourself out of this mess? Like Dana Brown's. Dana Brown's fix for this pitching problem has really just been hoping for guys to get healthy or just signing and trading for a bunch of nondescript guys in the off season. And then you spend the first half of the season realizing, oh, okay, well, Lambert's the only one we can really depend on, so sorry about that. Hey, we saved a lot of money on five guys who aren't doing a damn thing for you, but we saved a lot of money on them. So. So in the sum total, could you maybe have spent that money on a starting pitcher or something? Like a bona fide starting pitcher? Of those five guys, it seems. Seems like the math is relatively simple.
- [08:58]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. Yeah, that's true. It's like quantity and quality. You know, they brought in those six arms. They have a combined ERA of nearly 6 this year. Three guys are already out of the big leagues and it's like, well, you brought in six different guys. You tried it with six random pitchers and Lambert is the. Actually I don't think he's technically included in that six pitcher list.
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Seth Payne
Yeah, you're right.
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Luke Morrow
He was signed to a minor league contract. So it's, you're like, well hopefully one or two of these six hit or you could have just, you know, devoted your resources to one more secure option and, and felt a little better about the rotation. Kind of like Sonny Gray they were in on. Sonny Gray reportedly got beat out by the Red Sox and now Gray is the second best ERA in the al. It's like, man, it'd be nice if we had that guy in the rotation here. But to your point, the an article came out yesterday that Dana Brown said the Astros main need is still a left handed hitting outfielder. There's plenty of holes in the lineup too, especially in that outfield. We know statistically it might be the worst in baseball, but have we gotten to a point now where starting pitching has superseded or has become the bigger concern for this team than an outfielder?
- [10:04]
Seth Payne
Yeah, I feel like the, the hitting is a one in nine proposition on any given night and the one guy can help you and boost the lineup in other ways, etc, etc. But just with this starting rotation the way it is right now, I just, I don't see how you make it through a seven game series. I think if you're gonna get implosions from it, you're gonna have at least two implosions on any given night or in any given series. If I take a seven game series and try to figure out whether I can trust Imai or I don't know if Burroughs came back up or if Javier's in there as the starter, but do I trust that two of those guys are not going to have an implosion in a seven game series? And it's really hard to envision that. So. And we, and look, we've seen the games the Astros have lost despite scoring double digit wins when one of your starting pitchers is having an implosion. Yeah, starting pitcher for me right now feels like the, the biggest deal in terms of just like there's that you could bring in, you could bring in hitters that could do some good things for you, but they don't do a damn thing about one of your starting pitchers imploding unless you can. Who are they going to bring in that you can count on, you know, scoring five runs on a night when your starting pitcher Gives up seven or eight.
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Luke Morrow
Yeah, right. I mean, you have Jordan already playing at an incredible MVP pace, and that's not enough. They scored 11 runs the other night and still couldn't win. So, yeah, you know, it's still a case of pitching still wins World Series. If you look at recent World Series champions, their eras are all towards, you know, like the top 10 in the league. You still got to be able to pitch well. And right now, the Astros just still haven't been able to pitch good enough.
- [11:47]
Seth Payne
Yeah, just from Kawahara in The Chronicle Since May 21, the record is 26 and 18. The starting rotations era in that time is 5.60. Like, it's. They've been winning these games, but it's just that it's not sustainable. It's not sustainable versus good teams. And great. You've been doing a good job of winning series, and that's cool. A lot of them are against either mediocre or bad teams because you do play in the al, after all, and. But they. Lo and behold, you go to your old old nemesis over in the National League, and it's. It's just a completely different story.
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Luke Morrow
Yeah, that's true. Right. They played a decent team in the NL here this series and dropped two out of three in the starting pitching. Obviously couldn't hang. The Astro starters still have the second highest ERA in the majors. It's hard to win like that. We gave the example the other day of the 2006 Cardinals. They're the only team, though, that was able to, in their case, go all the way and win a World Series with a lousy pitching staff. You still need to be able to pitch to win, and they just haven't done that consistently enough. Now, to your point, it's a good thing they're in the AL and they've still been able to win series against these lousy teams. It's part of the reason why the Astros have the fourth worst run differential still in the AL and yet are two games out of first place because that division and the AL are so bad. But this. Look, the Rays series was big this past weekend, no doubt. But then this was another opportunity to continue that momentum. You're on the road against a decent Nationals team, you lose the series. And I was thinking about this, and I looked it up yesterday, but you know, they've only had winning series against winning teams three times. The Guardians, who are one game over.500, the Cubs, who are having a good year. But remember when the Astros played the Cubs, they were in that middle of like a 10 game losing streak. And then this past weekend against the Rays, which really was a good series. If I'm nitpicking, you could point out that this comeback on Saturday, that that was the difference in the series victory. But my point being in all this, we're. We're on July 9th, we're almost at the All Star break. You can only point to three teams with a winning record that the Astros have actually taken a series from. So while we talk about all these series wins, and that's great, you know, it's been mostly against the Royals and the Tigers and the Twins and these teams that are just lousy. And when you play a Nationals team, pitching staff gets exposed.
- [14:14]
Seth Payne
Yeah. And I think part of it, too, man, there's like last night, Bryce Matthews, you know, misses out on a fly ball and deep center field. And the, There's a part of it with this team where it just feels like they're stuck. They're stuck in this. They're stuck in this gray area of, you know, all right, you're going to play your young guys, you're going to play your guys with upside. That's great. That's cool. You're hoping that Bryce Matthews is starting to turn the corner as a hitter, but it just feels like you're. It feels like you're doing the kinds of things that you'd be doing in the middle of a tank or a reset and getting your. And that's part of Dana Brown's whole philosophy anyway, is he gets young guys out there as soon as possible and lets them learn on the fly. I'd like. That's a great, like, Tampa, Tampa Bay Rays philosophy or something in the way that they typically, not this year, but the way that they've operated in a lot of ways. But this is the Houston freaking Astros, man. It's not supposed to be like this. Like, you're so, like, this is. This is not a. This is not a. Hey, let's just, let's just roll things out there and see how they do and eventually it'll all work out. And then especially when you're having conversations about whether to be active at the trade deadline or not.
- [15:28]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, that's been one of my biggest complaints for the last year or two, that, that they should be a big market team or operating like such top five team in the league. And yet they're trying in recent years, the payroll's gone down three straight years, are trying to be more like the Rays or the brewers or even the Guardians. And the brewers and the Guardians and the Rays, they all find ways to win while spending less. But the Astros at times have really made it harder on themselves here in recent years by trying to spend less. When, look, it's not my money. It's easy for me to say, but I don't think that should be the case. It's the third largest city now in the country. It's a big market. You've had success the past decade. I put you in the same category as the Cubs and the Mets and the Yankees and the Red Sox and all those teams. And those teams spend. They're not in the bottom of the game.
- [16:09]
Seth Payne
Well, that's where the Astros are kind of stuck in a weird spot though too, where Jim Crane has spent into the competitive balance sex. Pretty, like pretty regularly.
- [16:19]
Luke Morrow
Yeah.
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Seth Payne
It's just that also they're not, they're, they're a large city, but not one of the biggest markets. And they're right there, right, right, right between the top tier markets and the mid tier ones. And they spend like aggressively for their weight class. But it's still not enough to just ever, you know, you just don't have the revenue to keep up with the Dodgers and teams like that. The Dodgers, the Dodgers, their, their revenue is got. It's something absurd. It's like 50% higher than the, than the next highest team or other than like out outside of it. It's ridiculous. So I don't, I'm always torn on that. I just, I do feel like sometimes they get stuck in the world of half measures and instead of just going full bore into, full bore into it, they're just always looking for the bargain or the semi aggressive signing or, or whatever it might be. And it's just, it's been an, it's been an uncomfortable gray area for a few years now. And we say this is. Justin Verlander announces his retirement. The original pivotal big move. It was actually a pretty financially easy move for them to make or it was an easy trade for them to make back in the day. But that was like, that was the, that was the first really, really bold move that just pivoted everything for the Astros as the golden era began.
- [17:40]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, is there a Justin Verlander out there to be had this year for the Astros? Because boy, could they use somebody like that. Not, not Justin Verlander in 2026, but that type of move when it happened nearly a decade ago. Feedback. You can always text the show 713-572-4610. And right now, Astro fans, Seth they're having a hard time. People are already saying, time for football. Football, football, football was another message that came in. Someone said, complete crap, really. Somebody said, I have to compete or I have to watch a middle team in a bad division with no chance. It's meaningless. So a lot of negativity amongst the Astro fans suddenly this morning, it's a rough time.
- [18:22]
Seth Payne
July is a really, really rough time to be languishing in Major League Baseball. The kids are home. They're annoying you all day long. There's just you. It's hot. You don't want to go outside. There's everything. There's nothing else going on in the major sports world other than this. And at least in the last couple years, the Astros have done us the honor of making a push this time of year and get you feeling good about things. And it's. They. But again, that's where it goes. It gets so frustrating and annoying that they have been making a push in terms of wins and losses, but they've just got these incredibly huge chasms in your starting pitching rotation that make it really impossible to look at this as anything that's going to be suspended, sustainable through tough parts of the schedule, or certainly in a playoff series.
- [19:11]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, yeah, it is. It's. Some of it's kind of the fool's gold of like, sure, you can make the playoffs, but this does still does not seem like a team that can truly compete. By the way, thank you to the texter that. That reminded me. It's Ethan Peko, is that minor leaguer I referenced earlier. He was the pitcher of the month for June, but his ERA is still like 4.78 in Triple A. But he's somebody that I know Astro fans are trying to get excited about of like, man, our starting pitching is not very good. Maybe this kid can come up and really develop into something. We'll see. And lastly, on the text line, someone said the Astros are a bad team. They're a turd. You keep turning this turd over in your hands looking for something. Stop looking. So that's.
- [19:53]
Seth Payne
That's the problem, though. They're not bad. They're mediocre.
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Luke Morrow
Yeah.
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Seth Payne
Which is the worst place to be. It's just the absolute worst place to be when. And you just keep trying to swap out for a Sanchez for a Lo Profito or let's say, hey, let's see. Let's see which one of these nondescript pitchers can come in here and take advantage of the Astros car wash. Remember, remember how they always just take all these guys like Charlie Morton and turn him into the best version of themselves. Those days are gone. Like, that is like the withering dying breaths of Brent Strom as an Astros. Like they've all evaporated out of the building. There's none of the there's none of the there's none of the Brent Strom magic left in there anymore. Whatever residue they were smoking off of his old his old seat in his in the clubhouse, it's been spent.
- [20:41]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. Ah, the good old days. Hey, let us know on the text line. What is what has become the biggest Astros need now? Who do you actually Trust in this rotation? 713-572-4610 Baseball Talk on Sports Radio 610 is presented by Xfinity. Score the most reliable Wi Fi 1 price 5 years guaranteed Xfinity. Imagine that coming up. We referenced this yesterday, but we really didn't dive into it. ESPN has been doing this top 10 ranking each day, and they did put out yesterday the top 10 edge rushers, which bodes well for the Texans, but also begs the question of how much pressure is on this Texans team here and now. We'll talk about that next. Payne and Pendergast at Amica Insurance.
- [21:24]
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- [22:39]
Luke Morrow
Every week on the Moth Podcast, you'll hear true stories that will intrigue you, inspire you and make you laugh, he
- [22:45]
Seth Payne
said, is there anything in your diet that might be spiking your blood sugar? I said, sometimes I eat pizza until I'm unconscious. He said, I think that might be it for real. Stories live on stage from comedians, astronauts,
- [22:59]
Luke Morrow
accountants, farmers and people just like you.
- [23:02]
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Follow and listen to the moth wherever you get your podcasts.
- [23:09]
Luke Morrow
ESPN ranked the top 10 edge rushers in the NFL according to executives, coaches and scouts. And no surprise, the Texans got plenty of love. We'll get to that here. I'm Payne and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow in for Sean alongside Seth Payne. And you of course can always join the conversation. 713-572-4610 on the text line or in the YouTube and Twitch chats as well. We referenced this yesterday. You know, ESPN's doing these top 10 lists each day and we mentioned this in passing, but we really didn't have enough time at the time to get into it. Yesterday's list for the top 10 for ESPN was edge rushers and they pull executives, coaches and scouts. No surprise we have two Texans on there. I think everyone was expecting that. You're just kind of waiting to see the spots. Will Anderson Jr. Ranked number three on the list, which is better than last year's ranking where he was eighth and Daniel Hunter sixth on the list, which is also an improvement from last year when he was ninth a year ago.
- [24:09]
Seth Payne
Yeah, and I think the Micah Parsons who was second, Myles Garrett was number one overall. That, that makes sense. And I think that, you know, it's funny, you and I both went over Michael Parsons stats afterwards because it felt like he missed more of the season than he actually did. He only missed three and a half games or whenever he got injured. But it just felt because it was at such a pivotal and crucial point for the packers, it felt like it was longer than it actually was when you're really paying attention down in the stretch of the season. But I think the one quote where I think Will is still ascending to but the one quote where they describe Myles Garrett and Micah Parsons, this Anonymous this is an NFL coordinator said these are two guys that never really get blocked in the NFL and it's those two guys, Miles and Micah. You can, you do what you can with movements and quick game and it's not enough. And this is the part where Will is very, very close to being that guy. But he's also a guy that's still adding some polish to his, his whole pass rush game. And it's, it's a process, you know, Miles Garrett and Micah Parsons are better players now than they were in their first couple years because there's just, there's just so much technique and anticipation and everything that goes into being one of these elite guys. And Will is like, he's definitively one of the best three pass rushers in the league. But I think that it's, it's been really cool to see Will take a step forward on the technique side of things and on the polished side of things. Just kind of on the art of being a pass rusher every single year. And you don't, you don't have any fear that he's not going to keep working at it.
- [25:51]
Luke Morrow
One, even though he finished third on the list, one NFC scout said, I still feel like he's underrated. True three down forest multiplier who demands attention and has the rare ability to elevate the play of teammates. Do you see a path for Will Anderson Jr. To get so, so like, do you think he's on that trajectory where next year, two years from now, maybe a few years from now? He's in that Miles Garrett category currently, like he's at the level of a current Miles Garrett.
- [26:19]
Seth Payne
It's those guys. Both Micah Parsons and Miles Garrett are kind of unicorns in just how physically gifted they are. Myles Garrett, it's like the combination of size, strength and speed. Myles Garrett, it's more about just how slippery, ridiculously fast he is. I think the thing with Will is that I don't think Will doesn't get as many style points as Myles Garrett does right now. But what people, people are grudgingly accepting, including one of these scouts in here that said, that basically said that I was, he's better than I expected, to be honest. That's what he said. Will add a reputation or at least the way a lot of evaluators were looking at him coming out of college was, well, he's got a really big motor and he runs around and he makes a lot of plays, but that doesn't always translate into being a really skilled pass rusher. And now I think what people are seeing is that, okay, he's still that guy that just plays with his hair on fire all the time, but he has refined his technique and his polish a lot. And that, that's where you kind of gain an appreciation for that as you watch a guy over time and see the impact plays that he's making, even if he's not getting the style points that a Micah Parsons would. And I think the consistency is just, it's, it's not as blingy, but it matters a lot. And I think that's probably, like, that's where I don't want to say that those other two guys are going to age out of it. I think that I just. I don't know what you do to. I don't know what you do to. To counter just the freakiness of Miles Garrett, where with Micah Parsons, I could see people starting to say, all right, look, Will Anderson is just doing it consistently down in and down out. And like, he's a force in the run game. We never have to worry, like, as much as whatever people think about or wonder about with Micah Parsons in terms of his presence in the locker room, Will Anderson is the exact opposite of all of that. And it'll, It'll just be a steady build.
- [28:18]
Luke Morrow
Danielle Hunter, six on this list. Look, as I just said, they, they said Will Anderson Jr. Still underrated. I think Danielle Hunter is incredibly underrated. Underrated. I've mentioned it before. I grew up a Vikings fan, so I watched Daniel in Minnesota. I've now watched him here in Houston. I've, I've really, I've watched every game of his entire career at this point. And, and last four years, he is second overall in sacks in the NFL. But when you, when, when people especially like national pundits or just average NFL fans talk about best pass rushers in the league, I don't think most people are thinking of or bringing up Daniel Hunter. But one NFC executive in this article for ESPN did call him one of the best power rushers of all time. Not even the league currently, but all time, one of the best power rushers. Daniel Hunter is just one of those guys that I think often gets overlooked. But, boy, are you happy to have him here in Houston.
- [29:08]
Seth Payne
Yeah. Yeah. And it's kind of weird going back to when, before the Texans even signed Daniel Hunter, remember, J.J. watt had posted something on X about just how criminally underrated he is. And that it's maybe just partly because I think, I think if I remember correctly, the way JJ framed it was as he's getting into media and realizing how much it matters, like which team you're on. And there's some teams that get attention, there's some teams that don't. Minnesota is kind of just looked off as like the forgotten team up in the, in the far north. That between Daniel Hunter's personality and the team he played for, even when the Vikings were good, he just wasn't going to get the kind of attention that some of the other other guys are going to get. I don't. Yeah. Not. It's. It's funny. I wouldn't classify him as a power rusher necessarily. I wonder if that guy's almost fooled by his physique. More so than anything else. Like Jared versus a power rusher. Daniel is. Daniel is a hybrid of everything and can just crush you with finesse, but can get you with power to like power. Power rusher is almost a little bit of an insult there. It. Compared to what Daniel Hunter actually does as a pass rusher.
- [30:16]
Luke Morrow
I heard. I think it was Ron yesterday kind of bring up something along these lines and I think it's a. It's a good question or a fair point because, like, look, when we look at these lists, The Texans have two of the top 12 cornerbacks. According to this poll on ESPN, only the Texans and the Eagles can say that. The Texans also have two of the top 10 defensive ends. In fact, two of the top six. According to this list, they're the only team that have two of the top 10. So just based off of these two position groups, you know, the Texans on paper seem to have the most talent in the league. And most of those guys outside of Daniel Hunter, but most of those guys are young guys. Obviously, we've talked a lot about C.J. stroud. At some point either going to have to get paid or making another decision at the quarterback position. So my question in all this is like, how much pressure is on the Texans right now? How big is this window that you have all this young talent on defense? You got to make sure you get it done now before maybe things do start to change or the names start to change on the defense here in the years.
- [31:17]
Seth Payne
You know, it's. It's a really good question because, you know, one thing people say all the time is it's hard to have good defenses consistently year after year. If you have a. Generally, in the NFL, if you have a really good quarterback, you're going to consistently have a good passing offense. You know, there's going to be up years and down years and everything. But on defense, it's trickier because you've got multiple different guys that play a key role, and it's hard to keep the entire band together. You know, they weren't going to keep the Legion of Boone together forever, but there are some defenses that, you know, thinking about. The Ravens and the Steelers really, for a long stretch of time, consistently had really good defenses. And the way they were able to sustain that was partly through just scouting really well. But then the other part of it is having really smart defensive coordinators and having a head coach that really cares about defense. So it's certainly possible to just have a long, long stretch of really good defense. If you look at the way the Texans are operating right now, I think the one thing I always try to remind myself is that, all right, Derek Stingley is the only first round draft pick in that defensive backfield. You know, Jalen Petrie was a guy that was kind of up and down in his first couple years in the league. D' Amico's first year, he was benched for a portion of the season and he's turned into what he is now. Not just because he's worked hard and et cetera, et cetera, and he's very talented, but also because they do a really good job of coaching these guys up. So that's the, that's the part where I've got confidence that they're going to be able to continue to develop. Guys. You're. I mean, there's some guys you just can't replace. But the pass rush is the thing that really makes it go. D' Amico will call it the engine of the, the defense. That's where at some point, if Daniel Hunter gets too expensive or if he just gets old, that, that's, that's. That might be the toughest thing to replace. You've got the benefit having two top 10 pass rushers on your team right now. And that makes everybody, that makes everybody better. That makes everybody else on the field look better. The. Are you. Can you realistically expect to have two guys like that at any given time off into the field future? Probably not.
- [33:30]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, that's true. Like I said, I mean, they're the only team on this list that have two players on this list. So it's not a common thing for NFL teams to have these two great pass rushers. So.
- [33:39]
Seth Payne
Scary thing. Yeah. And the scary thing is if you end up with like, you know, like, hey, the 49ers, you got Nick Bosa. Awesome. Yeah, but like, how often do you have Nick Bosa? He's got. I think he's on his second ACL right now, right? Yeah, he's torn his second ACL in his career. He's recovering from that. So that's. The precariousness of it for me is in this defense, especially the way d' Ameco operates, I feel like you can, you can still be. You can still be. If you removed Derek Stingley or Kamari Lassiter. I'm not comfortable currently with the backups. But if you replaced one of those guys with, with a quality cornerback, I think it could still be a really, really good defense. Not going to be as good. But if you lose, if you lost one of your edge rushers for an extended period of time, that's where I would, I think it might be a more drastic fall off.
- [34:31]
Luke Morrow
Defensive tackles list comes out today, so we might be able to just skip over that one.
- [34:36]
Seth Payne
Tommy Togi might get some honorable mention. Okay, that's, that's right, Tommy Togie. There's a couple of guys on the Texans right now that people are looking at and saying, hey, listen, I'm a ball knower people nationally, I'm a ball knower. I know how to pronounce Tommy Togiai's name and I know who he is and this is the guy you got to watch. Everybody in Houston knows how good Tommy Togia was last year. But like randomly in the off season especially, we're looking at depth charts where Tommy Togie is listed as the, the third defensive tackle. And like it's, it was, it was kind of frustrating. But now all of a sudden people are catching on to him and I'm guessing a couple of anonymous execs are going to mention his name. He won't be in the top 10, but they're going to mention his name, right?
- [35:17]
Luke Morrow
Well, we'll wait for the list. See, see if he makes it on there. But top 10 edge rushers, Texans well represented. Of course you can find that list on ESPN.com Coming up, we got to get to the headlines, including one former Astro great is retiring at the end of the year. We'll talk about that next. Payne and Pendergast.
- [35:35]
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- [37:46]
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Today,
- [37:52]
Seth Payne
Pain and Pendergast with today's headlines powered by Men's Tea Clinic.
- [38:02]
Luke Morrow
Let's get to the headlines here on this Thursday. Payne and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow in Fruchon alongside Seth Payne. Astros lose yesterday 8 to 2 to the nationals. Spencer Arrighetti getting knocked around again. So the Astros dropped that series. We'll talk more about the Strohs throughout the morning. But the maybe bigger news from yesterday is the fact that former Astro Justin Verlander announced his retirement at the end of the season. He's currently on the Tigers. He's injured. He's only pitched once all year and he'll be retiring at the end of the season. And then Major League Baseball announced that the commissioner he can add somebody to the All Star Game every year. They invented that for Albert Pujols as he was retiring and they're going to add Verlander as like that legacy All Star to the All Star Game this year. So Justin Verlander announced his retirement.
- [38:50]
Seth Payne
Ah, a name we can celebrate under like unlike Pooholes that that'll be you know. Now people love to at least at One point there will be a headline saying, or on ESPN or something saying, who does which hat does. Which is Justin Verlander. Where. Which. He doesn't have to. They don't have to do that anymore. They don't have to choose a hat to wear. And yet I'm guessing that he'll go in as a Tiger. What do you think?
- [39:22]
Luke Morrow
I don't know. Everyone seems to say Tigers, and I guess so. I mean, he went back to Detroit, obviously, this year. That's where he started. But you want a damn world right, like his. And actually, if you look at his era with each team, his best years were with the Astros. You mentioned the world. You know, so it's hard.
- [39:37]
Seth Payne
You know what? I bet he goes in without a hat. I think he goes in just as a Major League baseball player.
- [39:43]
Luke Morrow
Yeah.
- [39:44]
Seth Payne
That's a tough one to choose.
- [39:45]
Luke Morrow
It is.
- [39:45]
Seth Payne
You got the organization that you spent the majority of your career with on the one hand brought you in and all that, but then you have the other one where you just. You were. You were the best. You had a couple of the best teams in the. In the league, even in a year where you didn't win the World Series in one of those years.
- [40:02]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, I mean, he probably is Tiger, I guess, and maybe I'm biased and maybe it's partially recency bias, but I do think of him as an Astro first and foremost. More so than his early Tiger years.
- [40:13]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [40:13]
Luke Morrow
So, you know, I don't know. We'll. We'll see. It's kind of like. Like Roger Clemens had his whole career, and I think he did go in as a Red Sox, but I still believe most people don't really think of him as a Red Sox. He started his career there, but then he goes to New York and wins all those World Series and obviously finishes in Houston.
- [40:29]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [40:30]
Luke Morrow
And, yeah, maybe it's that recency bias again. But like, I think you always think of the team you have most success with and the team that maybe you were with later in your career more so than that first team.
- [40:39]
Seth Payne
Yeah. And where do you really want to spend your time in retirement anyway? You're going to be in Detroit or you're going to be in Houston. He loves golf. He's going to be in Houston.
- [40:46]
Luke Morrow
Yes, it's true. So Justin Verlander announced his retirement. Oldest player currently in Major League Baseball, but he'll be retiring at the end of the old.
- [40:53]
Seth Payne
Is he 43?
- [40:55]
Luke Morrow
42.
- [40:57]
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You know what?
- [40:57]
Seth Payne
Okay, this is a weird thing to feel a little bit sad about, but he did want to play until he was 45, or at least he had tossed that age out there. You know, Nolan Ryan is still. It's. It's funny how many of these modern athletes will still cite Nolan Ryan, despite all of the advances in nutrition and medicine and recovery and everything. That's, like. That's how impressive it was for Nolan Ryan to still be the guy that set the bar for, hey, I want to play until, like, he kind of showed that.45. You can still do it.
- [41:24]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. And I'm glad you bring that up with Nolan Ryan, because I want to get into that later on this morning because of a conversation that's being had right now in the sports space. But, yeah. Verlander is 43 years old. Only the one appearance this year. He's been injured for the entire season. Last year, 4 and 11 for the Giants. Started off terribly, but he did end up getting his ERA under four, so, you know, went healthy. He was still pitching. Okay. I know it wasn't so great his last season with the Astros, but Verlander retiring, obviously. Sure. First or. Sure. Hall of Famer, I'll say. Who knows when the one they'll actually put him in. Mark Cuban is suing the Dallas Mavericks as he's claiming that the new owner is freezing him out, and he's claiming that they had a handshake deal that would keep Mark Cuban involved in certain aspects of the organization. So now he's taken the Mavs and their owners to court over this.
- [42:17]
Seth Payne
Oh, could have never seen this coming. You could have never seen this coming the day that he sold the organization, but maintained that he was still gonna, you know, have some kind of a role in it. And. Oh, and it's a handshake agreement. That'll be that, boy. What are the legal prospects of him winning this based on a handshake agreement and vague. And a vague notion of exactly how much he was or was not going to be allowed to be involved.
- [42:41]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, I was going to ask you that. Where are you on handshake agreements? Do you need a legal written document or can you do it? Do you uphold a handshake agreement?
- [42:51]
Seth Payne
I. Generally my rule of thumb, you know, like, it's not hard and fast, but anytime a transaction involves billions of dollars, I want it in writing. I'm kind of a stickler that way. I'm kind of old school. I'm like, all right, this is a transaction that involves billions of dollars. Let's just go ahead and put it in writing. Okay. Let's not just get. Let's not rely on us both interpreting a handshake and a wink is meaning exactly what we mean. You know what? I put this one on Cuban. How the hell are you showing up demanding. Demanding satisfaction based on a handshake in a transaction such as this.
- [43:28]
Luke Morrow
Someone also put out a text message on the day of the sale. And I don't know. Again, you have to try to verify everything on the Internet, but I believe he was a reporter. It was a account with a blue check mark, which I know doesn't mean much anymore, but anyways, it was a text exchange from, supposedly the day of the sale to the new owner, where somebody was like, hey, by the way, Mark's telling people publicly like, that he's still going to be involved in basketball operations or whatever. And the new owner responded something along the lines of like, thanks for letting me know, we'll take care of it. Something like that.
- [43:55]
Seth Payne
Yeah.
- [43:56]
Luke Morrow
So I think it's just like a mark. Maybe he just assumed himself, like, oh, yeah, like, I'll still be around. I'm going to be running things.
- [44:03]
Seth Payne
Yeah, no, that's a classic when you leave anything vague in a situation like that. And this, where it happens with GMs and players all the time, is where a GM says, don't worry, we'll take care of you. Which could mean vastly different things. You know, okay, just make it through this year, and then we'll take care of you. And in the player's mind, he's like, oh, he's going to make me a. He's going to make me the highest paid running back in the league. And in the GM's mind, it's like, well, we'll come to a reasonable agreement between both sides, but it's kind of a big deal. Like, it's, it's something you try to brush off as a minor detail. It's actually a huge thing, like when you buy a team from. From Mark Cuban, a guy who's notoriously has a difficult time keeping his mouth shut. And you just say. And you just figure, okay, cool, we'll figure it out as we go. So I, I don't think I, I don't trust Mark Cuban on this.
- [44:53]
Luke Morrow
Cuban said he thought he was going to the. He had. They had an agreement that he'd continue to run basketball operations. But then the Mavericks brought in Nico Harrison, who had full control of the basketball side. And Cuban also says that he was unaware. This is what he says in the lawsuit. Unaware of the plan to trade Luka Doncic. I almost wonder if it's Like, Cuban, I don't know if he'd go through all this effort but, like, trying to save face, because people do blame him. Like, you can you. You sold the franchise, and then immediately they trade away Luca, and it looks like they're tanking and they don't care, and people blame, like, Mark Cuban. You ruined the Mavericks. So I don't know if this is him trying to, like, save his legacy of, like, hey, I had nothing to do with this. This wouldn't have happened with me.
- [45:30]
Seth Payne
I mean, the way the Doncic trade went down, especially where nobody, Jason Kidd, didn't know that Doncic was getting traded. Nobody except Nico Harrison, who was acting like he was the mastermind of all masterminds, and he keeping it a secret. Nobody knew. I didn't consult anybody. I just let Rob Painka tell me what to do, and it was awesome. Yeah. All right.
- [45:52]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. He almost comes off as, like, the townie Mark Cuban, where, like, you sold the team, go off and enjoy retirement. The person who, you know, graduated from high school, but they're still hanging around five years later, like, move on with your life.
- [46:05]
Seth Payne
Or he's just like, he sold his bar. But the. But he's there every day. Like, he's the most annoying customer at the bar. He sold the bar, and he just sits there and criticizes the way it's being operated.
- [46:14]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, you sold it. Move on. And from my experience, no, whenever anyone sells their company, they're never happy with what the new person does with it, because, you know, that was your baby. Lastly here on Headlines, the FBI is investigating Argentina soccer as they get ready to continue in the World cup. Being accused of money laundering and different financial crimes. I don't know how much it's related to the actual team, but. But, you know, people are putting on the tinfoil hats and running with it and saying, like, hey, Argentina's had two great comebacks in this World Cup. Seems fishy. And then today, in the other match today, where Argentina will play the winner, all of the officials in that match are Argentinian, apparently. So it just seems like, I don't know, there's some smoke around Argentina right now.
- [47:02]
Seth Payne
That's the whole thing when. So with the US When Trump called the FIFA president and everything, and that was a big deal. They'd get a lot of criticism internationally from all of that. There was a part of me that was without. Like, I had zero desire to leap into that whole debate or that whole fray, but there was a part of it that just. I kept reminding myself, yeah, people, FIFA does crap all the time that people aren't happy with. Like this is a blip in the radar and it's gonna be bigger because it's the US but like FIFA is so sketchy and does so many things that people just don't trust. It's a, it's amazing that they're as. It's amazing that they just continue to get away with it and have the monopoly on the whole deal that they do because, man, nobody trusts them.
- [47:50]
Luke Morrow
Yeah. Oh, fraud in. In FIFA.
- [47:53]
Seth Payne
Right, Right.
- [47:54]
Luke Morrow
You don't say. So Argentina is being investigated by the FBI currently. Those are your headlines.
- [48:00]
Seth Payne
To be clear. That's. Yeah, Argentina is being investigated, not FIFA. But when it comes to the officials, which officials were in that match, etc. Etc. That becomes a FIFA thing.
- [48:09]
Luke Morrow
Yeah, yeah, Right. So that people are up in arms about the match today, which involves France, who's the heavy favorite, and yet all these officials, Argentinian. It's like, huh, this seems a little suspicious. So we'll see how that goes today out on the pitch, as they say. Coming up, how much better, truly will the Texans offensive line be this year? We'll talk about that next pain and
- [48:30]
Dr. Horton Announcer
Pendergast now is your time to get into a new Dr. Horton home by taking advantage of its national red tag sales event. This Friday, July 10th through Sunday, August 2nd. Stop by any of its participating communities and find select red tag homes at incredible pricing. So whether you're buying your first home or looking for an upgrade, you don't want to miss the red tag sales event starting this Friday. Discover the Dr. Horton Difference. Visit drhorton.com Dr. Horton, America's builder and equal housing opportunity builder.
- [49:01]
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Oregon parks make an Oregon summer. But what makes an Oregon Park? Well, Oregon Lottery gameplay helps no matter the game megabucks, video lottery or keno, funds from lottery games help support parks projects across the state, ensuring they stay safe, accessible and open for all. In fact, Discover State Park Scratches are in stores now. It's the perfect way to put a little bit of Oregon Parks in your pocket. The Oregon Lottery. Together we do good things. Must be 18 or older to play. Lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only.
- [49:31]
Luke Morrow
Hey y'. All, Poodle and Maddie here from Reality Gays, grab your favorite thong because for
- [49:37]
Seth Payne
the first time, we're heading to the
- [49:38]
Luke Morrow
villa for the new season of Love island usa. I can't wait to watch Ariana babysit these shiny, oiled up adults who I'm pretty sure aren't there for the right reasons.
- [49:47]
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From the home wrecking bombshells to the
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Luke Morrow
absolute, absolute wreckage of movie night. Pull up a Dave in and join us every Wednesday for all the Love Island USA drama. Find Reality Gays, wherever you get your podcasts.
- [50:00]
Seth Payne
1-21234. Gimme a break, gimme a break Break me off a piece of that Kit Kat bar Gimme a break, give me a break Break me off a piece of that Kit Kat bar The chocolate crispy taste gonna make your day and wherever you go you hear Give me a break, give me a break Break me off a piece of that Kit Kat bar have a break, have a Kit Kat.
- [50:30]
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It only happens every four years and this time it's here. The biggest tournament in the world. Stadium shaking, flags waving. This is history and you want to be there. But real life can make it tough. Work busy schedules and the price. That's where Priceline comes in. Priceline has millions of deals on flights, hotels and rental cars so you can go see it live. So find a great deal and make the trip happen.
- [50:52]
Luke Morrow
Rally the crew.
- [50:53]
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Go see the game live. Turn your dream trip into reality. Book. Now with Priceline,