HOUR 2 - Swift-Kelce Wedding Spectacle + Acknowledge Me + Is the Struggling O-Line Partially on Stroud?

Summary

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Payne & Pendergast – Hour 2 (July 6, 2026)

Swift-Kelce Wedding Spectacle, Astros Acknowledgments, and CJ Stroud’s Role in O-Line Struggles

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Episode Overview

In this engaging hour, Seth Payne and guest host Luke Morrow (filling in for Sean Pendergast) dive deep into three major topics: the headline-grabbing Taylor Swift–Travis Kelce wedding, a segment of acknowledgments for Houston sports heroes, and a nuanced discussion dissecting the Houston Texans’ offensive line struggles and quarterback C.J. Stroud’s own accountability. The hour is filled with sharp opinions, plenty of sports insight, and the expected mix of banter and humor.

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I. The Taylor Swift–Travis Kelce Wedding at Madison Square Garden

[01:01–24:09]

Main Points & Insights

• Why MSG?

  • Payne and Morrow express confusion and some criticism about holding a private wedding for a few hundred (or more) at the massive Madison Square Garden.
  • Security and privacy seem to be the driving reasons: “If they found out that it was at some country club somewhere or something, then all of a sudden there's paparazzi stocked outside... There's no way to control them.” (Seth Payne, 03:01)

• Guest List Oddities

  • Many celebrities attended despite no direct connection to the couple; publicists likely pushed them to attend for ‘photo ops’.
  • “A bunch of people admitted, like, yeah, I've never said hi. I've never spoken to either one. But I got an invite.” (Luke Morrow, 04:06)
  • “That's off-putting…That's the part that's weird.” (Seth Payne, 04:26 & 20:28)

• Celebrity Who's-Who

  • Attendees included NFL personalities (Vrabel, Fox broadcasters, Dean Blandino, Greg Olson), but also many seemingly random celebrities.
  • Bo Allen misidentified as a quarterback by the paparazzi provided comic relief. (Seth Payne, 07:02)

• Adam Sandler as Officiant

  • Sandler reportedly officiated, sparking a playful brainstorm on which celebrity each host would pick for their own hypothetical weddings.
  • “He [Sandler] always does these, like, goofy, silly voices... he probably did the wedding in one of those little, like, baby voices.” (Luke Morrow, 09:52)

• Celebrity Dream Teams

  • Payne’s dream lineup: Officiant—Louis CK or Adam Sandler; Best Man—Morgan Freeman; Ring Bearer—Wee Man (from Jackass); Maid of Honor—Kristen Wiig.
  • Morrow’s picks: Dave Chappelle as officiant for his “commanding” presence.

• Memorable Quotes

  • “Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey…they already have everything else. They're the ones that get Paul McCartney playing this song for the first time like over 60 years. Whatever. It's been. That annoyed me too.” (Luke Morrow, 22:41)
  • “That was the perfect amount of weirdness. That's where I feel like…the officiant being Adam Sandler or somebody, like, that is the perfect amount of weirdness.” (Seth Payne, 21:31)

• Paul McCartney’s Performance

  • Performed “I Want to Hold Your Hand” live for the first time since 1964—exclusively for the wedding.
  • “That one doesn't annoy me because I'm guessing, I'm guessing they paid him a boatload of money…That's just good old-fashioned capitalism right there.” (Seth Payne, 23:25)

Notable Moments & Listener Interaction

• Fun speculation about which other celebrities might have been there.
• Text-line interaction: Suggestions of Christopher Walken, Will Ferrell, Larry David as hypothetical officiants (16:32).
• Debate about whether they themselves would have attended had they been invited: “I hate going to events…But I don't think I've ever not had a good time at a wedding.” (Seth Payne, 19:05)

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II. Sports Acknowledgments: Astros, Collective Soul, and More

[24:39–34:57]

"Let's get to Acknowledge Me where we acknowledge certain people from over the weekend..." (Luke Morrow, 24:39)

Astros: Recent Success and MVP Chants

• Yordan Alvarez’s Dominance

  • Named to the All-Star team, hit a walk-off HR, leading all Triple Crown categories: “OPS at 1.078...100 points ahead of anybody else in the majors...He's been incredible.” (Seth Payne, 25:07)
  • “He’s the heavy favorite…That was an MVP performance.” (Luke Morrow, 26:05)

• Astros’ July 4th Winning Streak

  • Astros have won nine straight July 4th games (longest streak since 1941): “Does this make the Astros…Are they America’s team?” (Luke Morrow, 28:07)

• Major League Baseball’s Marketing Gaffes

  • MLB announced All-Star teams during fireworks on July 4th: “They try to find the worst possible time to announce so many things...it’s like a Friday news dump.” (Luke Morrow, 27:34)

• Outstanding Individual Performances

  • Junior Caminero praised as the youngest with 11 HRs in an 11-game span. “Next year, I’ll probably despise him, but right now it’s fun to watch a young guy like that…” (Seth Payne, 30:50)

• Collective Soul Headlines Houston’s July 4th Festival

  • Morrow calls them “the most underrated band of the 90s.” Payne and Morrow discuss nostalgia acts and the ongoing market for 90s music.

Fun Banter & Quotes

• “You can make room for our Collective Soul.” (Seth Payne, 33:02)
• “Acknowledge acknowledgments to collective acknowledge old musicians. Except Paul McCartney who played that song...just for Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey.” (Luke Morrow, 34:57)

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III. Texans Talk: Is the Struggling O-Line Partially on Stroud?

[36:20–49:58]

Key Insights

• The Protection Question

  • Greg Cosell’s analysis: In year two, Stroud took on Patriots-style responsibility for setting protections—unlike his rookie (Kyle Shanahan-style) year where he didn’t have to.
  • “When you have to make that change…it slowed down his whole processing and…he was indecisive…not as anticipatory.” (Greg Cosell, as played by Morrow, 37:32)
  • Hosts debate: Was the poor O-line play at least partly the fault of Stroud adjusting to a new system?

• Stroud’s Learning Curve and Leadership

  • Payne sees it as a shared struggle: “It's him being command of all 10 other guys on the offense…It's the kind of stuff that you're going to get…” (Seth Payne, 39:04)

• Expectations for 2026

  • Will things get better? Payne points out that rookie skill players, linemen, and Stroud himself improved as the season progressed (e.g., “Woody Marks” and Jayden Higgins evolving as contributors).
  • Notes that offensive line continuity mattered: “The Texans offensive line in CJ's rookie year...wasn't a good offensive line, but it was a more functional, functioning offensive line than he's had the last couple years.” (Seth Payne, 41:51)

• Impact of a New Center

  • With likely a rookie center, this will be a critical test of Stroud’s command.

• Quarterback as Control Freak (“The Peyton Example”)

  • For young QBs, true field command (à la Manning or Brady) doesn’t happen overnight.
  • “There needs to be a little bit of that in you if […] you want to operate in this offense the way that, like, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning are the ultimate control freaks.” (Seth Payne, 43:57)

• Peyton Manning Anecdotes

  • “I used to get embarrassed for offensive linemen when (Peyton) would reprimand them…not that CJ has to do it in the same style..." (Seth Payne, 43:57)
  • “He gave me the look that he used to give Jeff Saturday…” (Seth Payne, 45:36)

• Baseball Analogy

  • Offensive struggles are like a reliever entering a game with runners on base—context matters. “When you're in second and long all the time or third and long all the time, it's just a harder environment…” (Seth Payne, 48:56)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “That's the perfect amount of weirdness.” (Seth Payne, 21:31)
• “[Astros winning streak] This is George Washington looking down on us and saying…this is the team that should win consistently on the 4th of July.” (Seth Payne, 28:13)
• “He’s been so good, so much better than everybody else, including on his own team. Big performance Saturday.” (Luke Morrow, 26:05)
• “There needs to be a little bit of that in you if you're going to be…Tom Brady or Peyton Manning…ultimate control freaks.” (Seth Payne, 43:57)

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Important Timestamps

• Swift-Kelce Wedding:

  • Venue logic and security: 01:32–04:01
  • Celebrity guest speculation: 06:24–09:11
  • Officiant & ‘Dream Wedding’ discussion: 09:49–13:46
  • Paul McCartney segment: 22:23–23:42

• Astros Mania:

  • Jordan Alvarez All-Star/MVP talk: 25:07–26:57
  • MLB’s PR blunders: 26:57–27:34
  • Nine straight July 4th wins: 28:07–29:13

• CJ Stroud/O-Line Analysis:

  • Cosell audio & O-line responsibility debate: 37:32–39:04
  • Offensive line youth, communication, & Stroud’s leadership: 41:51–45:36
  • Manning anecdotes: 45:36–47:43

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Takeaways

• The Swift-Kelce wedding was a spectacle the guys found both baffling and emblematic of celebrity culture—disconnected invites, maximum security, lavish performances, and a “who’s who” of random attendees.
• The Astros are back in a big way; Yordan Alvarez is surging, and Payne & Morrow make a strong case for Houston as “America’s Team” on July 4th.
• In-depth football analysis connects the dots between young quarterbacks, offensive communication, and the true causes of struggle—Payne’s perspective is that context, inexperience, and shared learning curves all factor in, not just the raw ability or leadership of C.J. Stroud alone.

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Listeners get a ton of Houston sports flavor, sharp humor, and insightful breakdowns—making this episode a quintessential example of what makes Payne & Pendergast a Houston staple.

Transcript

[Hannah]

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[Jenna Fisher]

Hi, I'm Jenna Fisher. And I'm Angela Kinsey and together we have the podcast Office Ladies. Just because we finished rewatching the Office does not mean we're going anywhere. Every Wednesday we'll be sharing even more exclusive stories from the Office and our friendship with brand new guests. Plus, you can revisit all the Office Ladies rewatch episodes every Monday with new bonus tidbits before every episode. So follow and listen to Office Ladies on the free Odysee app and wherever you get your podcasts.

[Luke Morrow]

Happy Monday, Pain and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow, in for Sean alongside Seth Payne. Of course, we'll get to acknowledge me coming up, as always, here in just a little bit, about 15 minutes from now. Plenty of things to get to, but we do have to acknowledge Seth. Look, I'll be honest. I know a lot of people are tired of, like, Taylor Swift coming into the sports world, but we have to acknowledge what transpired over the weekend with this absurd wedding between Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey at Madison Square Garden Friday night.

[Seth Payne]

I'm so confused. I'll acknowledge it. I'm so confused about all these things. So it started surfacing last week. The wedding was going to be at Madison Square Garden, and immediately I'm thinking, wow, okay. How'd they. They kept that under wraps for quite a while and I'm guessing there must be some kind of concert or something surrounding the nuptials. And as far as I can tell, there wasn't. There was a whole bunch of celebrities that showed up to this thing. I'm guessing most of the celebrities were there because of some association with Taylor Swift, but it doesn't. I don't like. Why would you have your wedding at Madison Square Garden for just a few hundred people or something? I don't like. That's what I'm confused about. I know it doesn't seem like I kept waiting for there to be news that. Oh, yeah. All the people from her fan club had been instructed to assemble in New Jersey, and then they drove in on buses or something and there was going to be a concert, but there was nothing like that, I feel like. So if anything, I want to be critical of them squandering our national. Our precious resources, which includes, you know, time. Time at Madison Square Garden.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, I guess we were talking about this over the weekend in our. In our home, I guess, because a few things, like there is a roof to it, so you can't get any, like, aerial photos.

[Seth Payne]

Okay.

[Luke Morrow]

Obviously, because it is New York. It's the Knicks. Like, they have VIP entrances where you could get people in and out without anybody knowing. You can drive into the arena and drive up to park and get in. That's true.

[Seth Payne]

If they found out that it was at some country club somewhere or something, then all of a sudden there's paparazzi stocked outside and there's no way to control them and everything.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

Okay.

[Luke Morrow]

Well, I'll tell you what. When there was originally, everyone thought it was in Rhode island because she has a house in Rhode island, and she apparently paid somebody to move their wedding date because she, you know, she's all about numbers, and she wanted a specific date. And my parents have friends who live across, like, the water where they can use their telescope and see into this venue. And so they were planning on throwing a party where people could come over and, like, use the telescope to watch the wedding.

[Seth Payne]

They should have gotten those little, like those. Those ones that you put a quarter in. You know, they have in some places where you can.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, they would. Made a killing. So I do get the idea of, like, this needs to be inside. Nobody can infiltrate. No one can get in. Even if it was just going to be a small thing, let alone the fact they had, like, a thousand celebrities show up to this event for this wedding Friday night at msg.

[Seth Payne]

So that makes sense, I guess. Yeah. Because they got all the resources and, like, the protocols for handling all this type of stuff.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

Especially, like, with what the Knicks have to do with maybe with some of the celebrities for Knicks games and all that.

[Luke Morrow]

Right, okay, exactly. That's the weird thing, though. So supposedly there was over a thousand people, and when I googled it this morning, like they said, it became a thing in the wedding where people were. The running joke was like, hey, how do you know them? Yeah, and because they were just, like, they just invited celebrities, a bunch of people admitted, like, yeah, I've never said hi. I've never spoken to either One. But I got an invite.

[Seth Payne]

Oh, that's off putting.

[Luke Morrow]

Right?

[Seth Payne]

It's weird.

[Hannah]

That's.

[Seth Payne]

That's. And you know what? A lot of those celebrities that. That probably went. Despite not having any connection to either of them. It's probably. They only went because their publicist said it would be a good idea.

[Luke Morrow]

Not true.

[Seth Payne]

That, like, okay, you got a. I feel for some of these Hollywood celebrities that they. They get invited to stuff all the time, that, you know, if you didn't have a busy schedule and everything, it'd probably be a lot of fun. But they probably. There were probably a lot of people there that just. Specifically because their publicist said you should go. There'll be some photo ops. She's a big deal, et cetera, et cetera.

[Luke Morrow]

I saw Mike Vrabel and his wife went. And there was a video. New York Post had a video of them getting into the car to go to the wedding, coming out of their hotel. They were both dressed very nice, but

[Seth Payne]

they were hopping into the car well ahead of his wife.

[Luke Morrow]

Yes.

[Seth Payne]

Walking alongside his wife on the way out, and then just hops in, doesn't wait and hold the door for anything.

[Luke Morrow]

And neither one seemed. If we're just judging body language, neither one seemed like they were in a good mood. I mean, Frable never really looks all that happy to begin with, but neither one looks very pleased as the people were taking photos and videos of them.

[Seth Payne]

If you had to guess which of the two thought that that was a good idea for them to go to, I'm guessing it was his wife. I bet his wife was probably like, listen, listen, all right, we're gonna do whatever the hell I want for a while now, and. And I want to go to Taylor Swift's wedding. That's. That's. That's all there is to it, Rabes. And this is what. This is happening. He's like, okay,

[Luke Morrow]

yeah. And they dragged him out.

[Seth Payne]

He can't do anything for a long time of his own choosing, right?

[Luke Morrow]

I wouldn't think. Yeah. So there was. But there was a bunch of random people, like, I saw. All due respect, of course, like, Kevin Burkhart was there, the broadcaster from Fox. There were some sideline reporters from Fox, I guess, just from, like, production meetings with Kelsey. They invited everyone. Dean Blandino was there, which, you know, I get the official.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, I get. Well, you know what? Jason Kelsey knows a lot of these people now from his work in broadcasting, so that might be a big part of it, too. There's probably a lot of NFL people there that might Have a connection to Jason Kelsey that not Vrabel's connection is what? They both played for the Chiefs.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah. They weren't.

[Seth Payne]

Oh, they're both from Cleveland, I guess, or they're from Ohio. There's probably some kind of Cleveland connection there.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, but do you invite like all the NFL, like all the NFL coaches or. Yeah, it is. I see. It does seem weird that Vrabel would be there and you have these broadcasters. Like, Greg Olson was there. I saw all the broadcasters were there. It seemed you would think you'd invite all the coaches. It just. It's weird.

[Seth Payne]

My favorite was Bo Allen, who probably knows the Kelsey's because he played in Philadelphia. Bo Allen was a nose tackle for the Eagles and, you know, he played with Jason Kelsey and probably knows him, you know, Travis well enough. But Bo Allen was. He's out there and he's just a big former nose tackle. Looks like a former nose tackle. But a couple paparazzi mislabeled him as a quarterback, so he's showing up on all these. He was showing up on all these huge accounts as NFL quarterback Bo Allen. And I was happy for him. I was happy that Bo Allen was getting the star treatment, sir. Erroneously.

[Luke Morrow]

So I guess with that said, do you. Do you think or do you know. Do you know anyone that you think was in that building or do you. Would you have a guess? Do you think you knew multiple people, like, personally? Do you think you knew anyone that was there at the wedding?

[Seth Payne]

That's a good question. I don't think so. Vrabel's the only guy my age or older. I think that we. That we saw out there. Right. That was there. There. There might have been a. There might. There's. There's probably definitely in the NFL, there's always like, you know, you know, two or three. You only need to go two or three links before you find somebody. Yeah, but I didn't see anybody that I recognized as a personal relationship.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

I wonder if, like, Tom Coughlin was there.

[Seth Payne]

Oh, no, definitely.

[Luke Morrow]

Dom Capers. Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. No, not there. All your coaches, Robert Solomon. Well, you know what? No, no, no, no. You know who might have been there is Jeff Stoutland. Former. He was. So Jeff Stoutland's the offensive line coach who's in Philadelphia forever through multiple different head coaches. The first time he was ever an offensive line coach was at Cornell University when I was there. And he didn't know what he was doing, but he was. But his players loved him because he just worked his butt off and he loved his players. So much. That was his. That was my first. It didn't surprise me necessarily that Jeff Stoutland became the O line coach that he did because he was, he's one of those guys that I knew him when he was a young coach and he was just wired different. You could just tell the way he felt about his players and the amount of work that he put in that he was just a. He was like. Robert Sala was like this when he was a GA with the Texans or a quality control guy with the Texans. You just kind of identify guys. You can tell by their.

[Luke Morrow]

Oh, yeah.

[Seth Payne]

Their whole, the whole way they operate in their energy and everything. Okay, this guy's a little bit different. This guy's probably going places, right?

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah, I'm sure he was there. So. So there you go. We're going to have to try to get the inside scoop. I, I actually, as I said, I'm a name dropper. I actually, I do text with Dean Blandino. I'm sure they sign like, you know, non disclosures, but I'll text Dean, see if we can get any dirt on the wedding because I don't think they can bring in their cameras. I'm just, just, just from being in radio. He's. I've had him on my show a bunch over the years and he's always been a great guy. And yeah, I don't know.

[Podcast Narrator/Announcer]

We.

[Luke Morrow]

We've gotten on a text. Somewhat of a texting relationship.

[Seth Payne]

So was Adam Sandler, he was the officiant? Yes.

[Luke Morrow]

Supposedly those are the rumors. So that's why I asked. And we've gotten some answers on the text line. But who would you want, which celebrity would you want to officiate your wedding? Because, by the way, Sandler, I'm sure he did a great job. He. I love Sandler. He's obviously funny. He's. He seems to be smart, but he also always does these, like, goofy, silly voices. So the joke on Twitter was that, like, he probably did the wedding in one of those little, like, baby voices that he used to do.

[Seth Payne]

And Travis Kelsey or duh. Yeah, I think Kelsey probably specifically, specifically request something like that. Like do it as the water boy or as Billy Madison or something. Yeah, yeah. Sandler. I would like, if he had to get up there and kind of do it straight, like, if he was just taking it really seriously and it wasn't anything comedic to it, I think he might be one of, one of the worst choices because he's kind of a bashful guy, you know, like When. When he's just being himself. That's not like he's. You. You wouldn't guess. He's a Hollywood movie star. He's just, you know, he, like. He just seems like a normal guy. I would have had Louis. Louis ck do it.

[Luke Morrow]

That's.

[Seth Payne]

Louis ck would have crapped on the notion of marriage for 10 minutes and. And then said, like, all right, kiss her, I guess, or something like that.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, I love Louis. Obviously, he had that whole scandal. He was, I thought, the best standup before all that. I was thinking something similar. I would probably go like Dave Chappelle, because I think Chappelle. He's not even doing so much comedy anymore as he just like commentary, so

[Seth Payne]

philosophizing with comedy added to it.

[Luke Morrow]

Right. I.

[Seth Payne]

You know what?

[Hannah]

He.

[Seth Payne]

Chappelle, too, is. He. Is. He either got older or went on male hormone replacement. His voice got, like, so much more deeper and impressive.

[Luke Morrow]

I think it's all the smoking.

[Seth Payne]

He has kind of a commanding voice now that he didn't have when he was a younger comic that in a situation like that, he could probably blend the comedy and the actual official duties pretty well. That's a good one.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah. Yeah, I think he'd be good. Now, you. You had a whole list. You had best man.

[Seth Payne]

Best man would be Morgan Freeman, just specifically for the speech.

[Luke Morrow]

That's good.

[Seth Payne]

And I would. I would have somebody write a speech for him, and he would just deliver an awesome speech about all the good times we've had together. And then for the ring bearer, I would have Wee Man. The guy from Jackass.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

Because we had him in studio once, and he was awesome.

[Luke Morrow]

Really?

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, he was the best. He was really. He was really fun. And then. And then I would choose my wife's maid of honor, too, and it would be Kristen Wiig, because she would do something funny for her speech, too.

[Podcast Narrator/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah. Those are all good ones. By the way, did you see they're coming out with a new Jackass movie?

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. Is it out already or.

[Luke Morrow]

No, I think it just came out maybe this weekend. Because I saw a lot of promotion for it over the weekend.

[Seth Payne]

Is it out just in theaters or is it. I just. I don't know how things work anymore.

[Luke Morrow]

I think it's in theaters to begin. And I'll be honest, anything they put out, it's still. I guess maybe the juvenile in me. Like, I'll watch it. I'll watch that movie when it's on streaming. I've always. That stuff always makes me laugh.

[Seth Payne]

So I get to. I I. It's like, I don't like movies where people are in height situations, like, where they're on a high wire.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

Or just, like, even the video of those two people that climb the Empire State Building.

[Luke Morrow]

I'm with you.

[Seth Payne]

I can't handle the vertigo. And, like, likewise with Jackass. It's just. I cringe too much. I can't. I don't enjoy it the way other people enjoy it.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, yeah, I hear you. I always fast forward through, like, the cringe stuff where they do, like, nasty things to their bodies. But I like seeing people. I don't know what it says about me. I like seeing people get hurt. That stuff. That's.

[Seth Payne]

When was the time you took a serious nutshot. Like, seriously think about. Remember, like, that's. For me, the memory of just. You know, when you're in high school and somebody just lines you up and kicks you square in the nargs.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

The stomach ache, everything that goes along with that, it just comes right back. I can't. I can't do it. I can't watch a nutshot. I was never a big fan of America's Funniest Home Videos because It was, like, 25% groin shots.

[Serena Williams]

Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

I just always thought the show was so corny. I never got into America's Funniest Home Videos. Some of the videos are just. They didn't do it for me. I got to go to the Johnny Knoxville territory.

[Seth Payne]

Right.

[Luke Morrow]

Really make me laugh.

[Seth Payne]

You know what it was? You know what's coming out again? That was Faces of Death. There's, like, a documentary about Faces of Death.

[Luke Morrow]

I don't like that stuff. That's where I'll draw the line.

[Seth Payne]

Well, so, kids, there was this. It was a VHS tape that, if you're usually your sketchiest buddy when you're in high school, had this dubbed copy of Faces of Death, which was people supposedly getting killed in real life. But a lot of it, I guess, was fake or augmented and everything, so it was kind of bogus. But that was the kind of stuff that we did before the Internet was around. And you could find, like, you could watch 20 in and 20 and 10 minutes of similar videos. Go find it on a dubbed VHS tape.

[Luke Morrow]

There's also. There's somewhere, I think, like a death museum. I am not into that stuff. I don't want to revel in other people's tragic passings or whatever.

[Seth Payne]

Did you. Getting back to the Taylor Swift wedding, did you recognize. Are you at an age yet where you didn't recognize, like, half of the People walking in. I don't like that. I don't know who half the celebrities are. I only found out who Timothy Chamberlay was, like, two years ago. That's how behind I am on stuff.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, I'm. I'm not good, honestly. I'm not good with a lot of faces. I mean, going back to my story this morning, where I thought I saw a celebrity at the pool on Saturday, but I'm not good at, like, recognizing people. My brother is really good. We were walking down the streets of New York last year, and Jordan Clarkson, who's on the Knicks, we walked. He was standing on the street. My brother's like, oh, there's Jordan Clarkson. I'm like, face blind. I don't know who anybody is.

[Seth Payne]

You know where we were? Sean and I were both like this at the. At the Super Bowl. We were staying in the same hotel as the AFC Pro Bowl. Pro bowl participants or no, AFC and NFC Pro bowl participants. And Sean and I were both discussed it with ourselves, like, how few of those guys we recognized by their faces.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

Because you just don't see them all that much. Even then. Like, I was standing next to Trey McBride in the elevator, and it took me a while to figure out if it was Trey McBride or Aiden Hutchinson. And ultimately I realized that just based on body size, and I don't think Aiden Hutchinson was actually at the Pro Bowl. Like, the combination of those two things, it was like I had no clue. I really. I really couldn't tell just by looking at him. Oh, yeah, that's Trey McBride.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah. You just try to ask a vague question to figure it out, like, oh, some year you guys had, huh? And if it's a good positive answer or like a negative answer, like, oh, he must be on the Cardinals.

[Seth Payne]

J.J. mcCarthy, huh? What do you think about that? J.J. mcCarthy. Trey McBride is like.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. On the text line, by the way, because I did ask, who would you want to officiate your wedding? We got Christopher Walken. That's a good one.

[Seth Payne]

Oh, yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

Will Ferrell. I like that one, too. Larry David, obviously, is a big Seinfeld guy. Curb guy. I would love Larry David might be my number one answer.

[Seth Payne]

He would be kind of in line with Louis ck. He would crap on the marriage for a while. I like. I like kind of you. You kind of be getting roasted, like a different type of roast. Or they'd be roasting the notion of marriage and that this is even going to work out, right? You know?

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah. No, he would be good. Jameis Winston, Jack Black. Came in.

[Seth Payne]

James Winston would talk about a renaissance in, like, public popularity and everything. It's been. We've been seeing it on a, you know, in an NFL scale for the last decade, really, since he quit drinking. Whenever he quit drinking and got his life in order, he's been a completely different, like, more embraceable guy. But the World cup has amped his status up incredibly. People love him now.

[Luke Morrow]

I haven't even been paying attention, but I know obviously he's.

[Seth Payne]

He's just. Yeah, he's doing all this stuff. Like, I didn't even know what the Norwegian row thing was where they all sit on the ground and they do their rowing together. But he led the Norwegians in a bunch in that over the weekend or last week. And he's been doing all this stuff where he's just immersed down in the crowd and people love him.

[Luke Morrow]

And somebody said, Norm MacDonald, hands down, that's a good one. Obviously, rest in peace. But if you could pick anybody of all time, Norm MacDonald's another good one for the same reasons we mentioned. Any of these top comedians, I imagine, would do a great job.

[Seth Payne]

Norm's a tough one, though, because a lot of Norm was. You either got him or you didn't.

[Luke Morrow]

That's fair.

[Seth Payne]

And I feel like, and especially in a mixed crowd, if there's not a lot of stand up comedy fans, I would say the majority of the people there might just not get Norm MacDonald's. They just, you know, when he does his intentionally horrible jokes. Yeah, there'd be a lot of people that were just like, who is this? But they couldn't afford a guy that could actually tell a proper joke. It's true. Like, and then you're explaining afterwards the whole wedding like, no, that's actually. That was the joke. Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

It's like the joke was that the joke was no good.

[Luke Morrow]

It's like when you go to a regular wedding and the bridesmaids, the bridesmaid, when in their speech, they'll tell inside jokes and they're laughing so hard they could hardly get through it. But everyone else is sitting there like, I don't get this. I don't.

[Seth Payne]

These are the most annoying women alive. How are you marrying into this friend circle? What the hell are you doing?

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about. Real quick, somebody asked if you were invited to this wedding and everything was paid for, would you go, Seth, I would have.

[Seth Payne]

Out of duty. I don't generally like things, but, like, I hate going to events. And yet you always have a good Time when you're there. It is a wedding. I don't think I've ever not had a good time at a wedding. Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

Right.

[Seth Payne]

So I would have gone based on that. I turned down. I turned down a lot of events that other people would be really excited to go to just because I don't. I don't like being committed to something for 12 hours, you know, like, when it comes to just. And I just. I hate the thought of it, but. Yeah. I would have reminded myself that you always have a good time at a wedding. You're gonna run into some people that you actually do either admire or that you, you know, know from something back in the day. And we would. Had a good time.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah. Yeah. It's. It's. If nothing else, just for the experience. Uh, we'll get to acknowledge me in just a moment. Somebody said on the text line, though, why do you consider this wedding to be absurd? Because not often. They said people get married all the time by having friends or other people they know. Yeah. Not often do people get married with over a thousand guests there in what is called the world's most famous arena. That's why I think the wedding is absurd.

[Seth Payne]

Only a whole bunch of people that they just don't. They don't. They don't know, like, they have no connection to or anything. It's not like a. It's one thing if it's a friend of your. Like, there is. There's some NFL people there that I'm guessing were more friends of Jason Kelce than Travis Kelce. Okay, cool. That makes sense. It sounds like there are a lot of celebrities that neither of the people had a connection to.

[Podcast Narrator/Announcer]

Right.

[Seth Payne]

That's the part that's weird.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah. And only Sly Stone has ever been married in MSG before, and that was during a concert. So this is like a one. You know, this has never happened before that a celebrity rented out MSG for their wedding and filled it with a bunch of celebrities. That's why it's absurd. Stan Lee coming in. Chris Farley, Robin Williams, Kevin Hart. All good ones for officiants of the wedding.

[Seth Payne]

Last we were at a. We were at a wedding a couple weeks ago. Yeah, My wife's cousin was getting married, and they have. You know, they live on a farm, and they had cleared out a bunch of space next to a creek that runs along their farm. And it was an awesome, beautiful setting. But people do canoe and kayak down this creek on the way to the Allegheny River. And so it's this beautiful setting and everything. And they put signs up saying, hey, we're having a wedding. Please, you know, just try to keep quiet as you're going past this. And it's kind of nice, because as we're doing the. As they were doing the ceremony, there were a few people going by on canoes. And all of a sudden, like, in the middle of the officiant doing her thing, one of these guys. All of a sudden, you hear, off to my right on the stream. I was sitting near the stream, a guy go, don't do. Was. It could have gotten really ugly. Like, I'm kind of, like, wondering I'm closest to it all, and I kind of look over, and I'm like, am I gonna. Am I gonna have to intervene here? And Clinton, the. The kid who's getting married, he did. He handled it perfectly. He actually turned back to the guy, like, gave him a big smile and waved at him. And the guy. The buddy of the guy who was canoeing and yelled, said, like, I'm sorry, man. Good luck. And it was perfect. That was a. That was a perfect amount of weirdness. That's where I feel like. Like, the officiant being Adam Sandler or somebody, like, that is the perfect amount of weirdness.

[Luke Morrow]

Right? That's what I always say. I've officiated a bunch of weddings. I'm doing another one later.

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[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, yeah. I'm doing another one later this month, too, for a friend of mine. And that's why I always tell everyone you have to have a mix of, like, humor and funny, but you also still have to keep the seriousness of the moment because it's their big day. Some people, I try to be too funny, and it's like, this is still a wedding, and other people might be a little too stiff. You have to try to find that balance.

[Seth Payne]

You got to figure out, like, what the actual people are getting married. Want to.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, for sure. So, yeah. Anyways, it's fun. Last thing I'll say in this wedding, because we did spend more time than I. Than I thought we even would, but Paul McCartney performed, which is that. That's fine. But he played I want to hold your hand for the first time live since 1964 for this wedding. And I know you guys have talked about Freddie a lot this whole, you know, this World cup fan, but. But it's the same issue I had with him as I have with this, of, like, he hasn't played it for anybody. And then Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey, they already have everything else. They're the ones that get Paul McCartney playing this song for the first time like over 60 years. Whatever. It's been. That annoyed me too.

[Seth Payne]

You know what? That one doesn't annoy me because I'm guessing, I'm guessing they paid him a boatload of money.

[Luke Morrow]

That's fair. That's fair.

[Seth Payne]

I know. That's just good old fashioned capitalism right there. I wonder, do you think they paid him a million dollars to sing that song? If he hasn't sang it since then, since the 1960s, it's a good question.

[Luke Morrow]

I wouldn't be surprised. They apparently donated like 26 million to charities on the backs of this wedding. Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey.

[Seth Payne]

So they really?

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, supposedly.

[Seth Payne]

How are they making. Were they making the money from the stuff that was going on at the wedding or. No, it wasn't publicized.

[Luke Morrow]

I know.

[Seth Payne]

Somebody probably paid for expensive exclusive rights and everything. There's going to be a video.

[Luke Morrow]

Oh, that's true. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I didn't. I didn't. Typical millennial fashion. I didn't read the story, I just saw the headline. So I'm going to take it as as truth.

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[Luke Morrow]

history that doesn't Suck is a legit, hard hitting American history podcast told through entertaining stories. History that Doesn't Suck An Odyssey Podcast available wherever you get your podcasts. All right, better late than never. Let's get to Acknowledge Me where we acknowledge certain people from over the weekend and then you'll hear the sounder and explain why. But let's start it off. We already referenced it earlier, but what a Saturday for we need to acknowledge Jordan Alvarez.

[Seth Payne]

This was everything that you would want on a day that Jordan Alvarez gets named to the All Star team is that he came through like an absolute MVP on Saturday with the walk off in the ninth inning with a two run homer earlier and with with as of Saturday night his OPS at 1 1.078 was 100 points ahead of anybody else in the majors like he's just, he's been incredible, you know, leading every category of the Triple Crown. It's just been. It's been so cool to watch him play on this team the entire season, but especially now that the team looks like they've got a shot at being a much better team than they looked like in the first quarter of the season where it looked like, okay, great, there's going to be like a Mike Trout type of MVP race where he's awesome, but it's on a. On a lost cause of a team. Now it feels even better that the Astros have a pulse.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah. And he's the heavy favorite. I checked this morning. He's like minus 180. Next closest is like plus 250. He's having a remarkable season. That was an MVP performance on Saturday. And it's. It's pretty crazy. As I said earlier, you look at this lineup, only three guys, if we exclude my boy Taylor Tramell, only three guys have a OPS above league average. So I know this lineup was great early in the season with injuries and whatnot. It's. It's not as strong now. But Jordan is just. I mean, he's. He's been so good, so much better than everybody else, including on his own team. Big performance Saturday. By the way, though, with that said, this might be an ironic Acknowledge me, but we have to acknowledge Major League Baseball continuing to screw this stuff up. I think no sport does a worse job marketing themselves to Major League Baseball. They announced the all star teams at 7:30 on July 4th. Who's watching that?

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, I, I don't know, man. I think just that they try to find the worst possible time to, to. To announce so many things, including half their awards don't get announced until at a month after the season. Anyway, I just. I guess kudos to them for. I think they're trying to force. They're trying to force it into being a thing that. Yeah, no, this is what you do on the 4th of July as you're getting ready for fireworks and whatnot. This is when you, you try to send your headlines off into a black hole. Yeah, right.

[Luke Morrow]

It's like. Yeah, it's exactly. It's like a Friday news dump. Friday at 5pm they did it Saturday night during the fireworks on July 4th. Hey, by the way, here are our all star teams. Major League Baseball always fumbles this stuff. Hey, we need to acknowledge Overall. The Astros nine straight wins on July 4th. Somebody on the text line earlier said they were there Saturday. The environment was electric. The atmosphere longest July 4th winning streak since 1941. Does this make the Astros. Are they America's team?

[Seth Payne]

This is. I mean, the Cowboys, last I checked, have never even won a game on that's true July in their entire existence.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

And yet they call themselves America's team. I think, Yeah, I think this is. This is George Washington looking down on us and saying, this is.

[Podcast Narrator/Announcer]

This is.

[Seth Payne]

This is the team that should win consistently on the 4th of July. Yes.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, I guess so. Nine straight wins. Longest winning streak since 1941. And then as we've already talked about, I mean, they were trailing in that game. It wasn't looking good. Hunter Brown gets shelled, they still find a way to win. Jordan's the hero. If you were there, as we heard from a couple texters earlier, I mean, what, what a game to go to. I imagine it was a lot of fun. Plus the fireworks show afterwards.

[Seth Payne]

And the first time all season that there have been large scale MVP chance for Jordan Alvarez in the stadium, which I wouldn't have believed if Callous hadn't confirmed it. Because usually, I mean, people jump on the MVP chance, you know, right. At all the way too early, way too often. I appreciate Astros fans discernment knowing, okay, we're at the midpoint of the season, it's the Fourth of July. This is when the MVP chance start.

[Luke Morrow]

You kind of just touched on it a moment ago. But do you think if the Astros say they finish 80 and 82, they missed the playoffs. Do you think Jordan, if he continues on this path, will he still get the MVP or they hold it against him that the team, you know, it's not a winning team?

[Seth Payne]

No, I think it'll be. I mean, it's just such a commanding lead right now that I guess the only thing holding him back might just be that he's a dh, but that like, by and large he'd get the Mike Trout treatment? I think it's. I feel confident in that. If they, if they completely fall apart, that's a different story. But as long as they're hovering around.500, I think, I think he gets it.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, it's true. You know, baseball's always done it. Like, I think a Rod won the MVP on a last place Rangers team, you know, 25 years ago. Baseball usually doesn't care as much about the record as some of the other sports.

[Seth Payne]

And Jordan never gets the blowback from the, from the being better than everybody else scandal the way some others do.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, yeah, that's true. We need to acknowledge Junior Camino, youngest player, I believe I Saw this stat. Youngest player to have 11 homers in an 11 game stretch. He had what, a couple over the weekend. The dude is on a roll. And funny enough. And you sang his praise earlier, Seth. But what's also funny is we got this story earlier this year that the Angels turned down a trade request for Ohtani that would have given them Junior Camino and instead they wanted to keep Ohtani. He ended up leaving that off season. So it was the trade deadline before he, Caminero, could be on the Angels right now, which I'm not telling you. The Angels would be good, but as an Astros fan, you'd have to deal with this guy all year long every year. Fortunately, he's still at the race.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. This is the last time I think we'll probably acknowledge Junior Caminero. I wanted to get it in and actually look like I'm a good dude or something, but I did. I enjoyed. I enjoyed that. I enjoyed that part of this series. And I probably wouldn't feel that way if the Astros had lost the series. But I love. I love having somebody like that, that we haven't been. We haven't just been inundated with talk about him. So like on Friday, they wouldn't shut up about him on the Apple broadcast. And you're not watching your home broadcasters and everything. So that could have been annoying. But I. I was cool with it. I was cool with it. By next year this time I'll probably it do despise him. But right now it's fun to watch a young guy like that and to get the better end of that series.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah. Yeah, certainly. Right. That's. That's the thing. If you lose the series, he's probably a little more annoying and you can't

[Seth Payne]

appreciate those efforts, but he's a cocky young jerk. I hate him. Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

So it's easy to be like magnanimous. Yeah. When you win the series, it's easy to heap praise on others. This is a little self serving, but humor me here for a moment. We need to acknowledge Collective Soul. I was very pleased to see Collective Soul was the headliner of the July 4th celebrations here in Houston. Keith Urban went on first and then Collective Soul at the Houston July 4th party and at the Sam Houston part, whatever it is. One of the parks downtown we went last year. Um, but anyways, I didn't get to see it. We were out this year. I didn't get to watch it on tv. We did not go there in person. But I saw a lot of praise for Collective Soul on Social Media, which I love because I've always said. And Seth, I don't know, you know, how big of a music guy you might be or what bands you might be into, but I've always said Collective Soul, to me, is the most underrated band of the 90s. And so I was happy to see them get some. Get some shine here in Houston over the weekend. Pun intended.

[Seth Payne]

No, that's. I don't. I don't know. How have they been relevant since we knew they're, like, big songs and everything, December and whatnot.

[Luke Morrow]

Not really. Not in at least. Like, they still tour, but not really. They haven't had, like, a popular song in probably over 15 years.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, no, that's. That's right. In my wheelhouse, then. Yeah, I approve of that choice. I'm too many.

[Hannah]

I.

[Seth Payne]

Listen, listen, kids. We get inundated with these, you know, streamers that we've never heard of that are a big deal and everything. You can make room for our Collective Soul.

[Luke Morrow]

That's right. Yeah. You know, they're classic. It's kind of like a lot of the rappers are doing it now. But collective soul, they've. They've survived for the last 20 years on these nostalgic 90s tours where they tour with, like, I don't know, Counting Crows is too big of a name. But you find, like, three, like, live collective soul. You find three bands that were popular in the 90s that people haven't really thought about in 20 years, and you put them all together, and that's what Collective Soul's been doing. But they were. They're a really, really underrated and really good band. Outside of their obvious hits, if you listen to a lot of their other songs from the 90s, really good band.

[Seth Payne]

You know what? I was. I had to talk with Bun V about this once. It was cool about, like, those hip hop. Hip hop artists and groups from, like, the 90s. They didn't really know what the market was gonna be for, you know, like, that. What the nostalgia was gonna be for their songs. Because there wasn't, you know, classic rock. It's. There's an established template. Yeah. Like, people show up for these concerts and everything for guys who are rock stars in the 70s and the 80s and all that. But there was kind of a period where, like, Bun B. And some of those guys weren't really sure if they were going to have a career, you know, in their 40s and 50s and so forth. So that's why Bun had. Bun kind of got his fingers in a lot of different pies and you know, got into different business ventures and everything. But then along the way. And that worked out well for him. But then along the way it turns out, oh yeah, there's a market for, there's a market for 90s rap out there still in concert.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, right, right. Yeah. Which is good. So anyways, acknowledge acknowledgments to collective acknowledge old musicians. Yeah, that's right. Except Paul McCartney who played that song for the first time in 60 years just for Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey.

[Seth Payne]

No, none for him.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, yeah.

[Hannah]

Get out.

[Seth Payne]

Paul McCartney.

[Luke Morrow]

That's right.

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[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, Seriously, that's acknowledged me here on this Monday coming up. I heard this audio last week, so I do want to bring it back. Is one of the biggest offenses we're making for C.J. stroud actually part of his fault? We'll talk about that next year. Payne and Pendergast I'm Serena Williams and

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[Lloyd Lockridge]

Hi, my name is Lloyd Lockridge and I'm the host of a new podcast from Odyssey called Family Lore. In this podcast I'm going to have people on to tell unusual and sometimes far fetched stories about their families.

[Seth Payne]

I've heard my whole life that she indebted to Margarita and then we're going

[Lloyd Lockridge]

to investigate those stories and find out how much of it is true. He gets a patent one month before the Wright Brothers.

[Luke Morrow]

Oh my God.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

Please follow and listen to Family Lore, an Odyssey podcast available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your shows.

[Luke Morrow]

I heard a piece of audio here on these airwaves last week and I'm curious if if one of Stroud's biggest defenses is actually his fault. We'll get to that here on Pain and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow, in for Sean alongside Seth Payne. Appreciate you hanging with us here on a Monday. Hope you had a great holiday weekend. You can always join the show via the text line. Join the conversation 713-572-4610. At any time or also in the YouTube and Twitch chats as well. Appreciate some of the love for collective soul coming in on that text line. Thank you, Seth. You guys got into this last week, this Greg Cassell audio of him talking about CJ Stroud. And as I heard him talking about it, I'm curious if it almost reflects worse on CJ Stroud based off of something we keep defending him on. Now you obviously know you have forgotten more about football this morning alone than I'll ever know. So I do want to get your opinion or your thoughts on my takeaway from this. But first, let's just go back to the Cassell audio, the first cut, talking about CJ Stroud and this new scheme that he's running here in Houston.

[Podcast Narrator/Announcer]

CJ Stroud the last couple of years has been up and down. Now keep in mind, his first year in the league, he was in a Kyle Shanahan type offense with Bobby Slowik. Now in that offense, the quarterback has nothing to do with calling protections. And then they got off to a slow start his second year and they fired Slowik and they made a fairly significant change in approach, which has now continued. And they went more with an New England Patriots style of offense. And in the New England style of offense, the quarterback is responsible for setting protections. That's a major, major adjustment for a quarterback. It adds to the mental part of playing the position. And I've met CJ Stroud, he's a very intelligent young man. But when you have to make that change and it's a process and he'll get better and better at it. But I think it slowed down just his whole processing and I think there were times where I thought he was indecisive playing the position and therefore was not as anticipatory as we saw him in his rookie season.

[Luke Morrow]

So Seth, tell me if I'm being unfair or if I'm just straight up wrong, but we always say so often like the offensive line wasn't good enough, which I agree with. But if Stroud is also the one handling the protections, and as Greg Cosell said, like I didn't really do a great job of it, then doesn't the fault of the offensive line kind of fall into the responsibility of Stroud? Like we excuse some of his play because while the offensive line is very good, but isn't that also on the quarterback shoulders to to try to figure some of that stuff out along the way?

[Seth Payne]

No, no, no. I think it's 100% it is. I think that what Cassell's point would be is that that's it. But it's a lot for a young quarterback. And even though, you know, Stroud had said he had more command at the line of scrimmage when he was at Ohio State than he did in the first couple years of offense, the. It's just different doing it in college, especially when you have a dominant offensive line. I think the part about it though too, that you can't lose sight of is that it's not just Stroud that has to make a bunch of decisions based on the fronts he's seen and the coverages he's seen. It's the receivers themselves and all the skill position players. And when I went back a couple weeks ago, I was looking at the Texans versus the blitz, and there was a clip from that first Jaguars game where Woody Marks was in protection, was supposed to chip the defensive end and then seep out. I'm guessing he was supposed to seep out as an outlet for cj and you can see CJ kind of like looking, waiting for Woody Marks to be there for what would have been an easy dump off, but Woody Marks stayed in pass protection. Then you fast forward a few weeks later and I was watching the Titans and it was when Davis Mills was in there. Woody Marks was in the exact same situation, very similar blitz. He seeped out and Davis Mills dumped it to Woody Marks for, for like a 12 yard gain. And that's a. Okay. A rookie running back had a better feel for what he was supposed to be doing in the offense. Guys like Jaden Higgins got better at where they were supposed to be in the offense. Over time, some of the offensive linemen got better at understanding their, their role. So yes, I think cj, you know, needs to be better at that whole process than he was last year. But it's, it's him being command of all 10 other guys on the offense and having them in the right spots. And some of it last year might have been youth, some of it how much of it was. CJ needs to be a better orchestra leader in all of that. It's the kind of stuff that you're going to get. Like going into last season, we had so many people say, all right, listen, if they're going to be running more of a New England style of offense, there's going to be some hiccups along the way. The quarterback, no matter how smart he is, is just not going to pick up all this stuff immediately and make it look good, especially when he missed all of OTAs. That part of it, it's one of those things that if this season just sucks offensively, then all right, none of that, none of this discourse right now matters at all. If the offense takes a step forward, I think then it becomes a reasonable explanation for why it took, why did it take a full season for all of this to come together? Oh, okay. Because you're putting a lot of different moving parts together. Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

And so with that said and makes total sense, like how much do you expect it to be better this year? Whether it's because some of those guys are older or just Shroud has another year, should we expect a big leap there?

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, I think. Well, just to go back to Woody Marks, you know, another situation later in the year that I don't think they could have pulled off in the first half of the season was in the Chiefs game where down in the red zone, CJ adjusted the protection, moved Woody Marks over to the left side of the formation, and then Woody Marks seeps out for a wide open touchdown. Like that's the kind of stuff that I don't think you would have seen. Like, you wouldn't have seen the whole operation look like that for any. On any given play in the first part of the season. I think they were figuring it out as the year went along. The big, I mean, the big thing, again, just to make more excuses and, or explanation, whatever you want to say, is that you get into that final game of the year and they had to reshuffle their offensive line. They didn't have Nico Collins. They still couldn't run the ball effectively really at any. They got better at running the ball in the second half of the season, but the offensive line figured things out. But it still wasn't as good as it needed to be, especially when they lost their left guard or when they had to move Titus back to right tackle. The other thing that I think people kind of forget or lose in the shuffle of everything was that the Texans offensive line in CJ's rookie year was actually, they were ranked like 16th or 17th on PFF's final O line rankings. It wasn't a good offensive line, but it was a more functional, functioning offensive line than he's had the last couple years. Like, so where it just gets too easy to always go back to the offensive line. Always go back to the offensive line. I think it's, I think it's important to put it into context that the offensive line did operate better as a unit in, in that first year of Stroud and then the last couple years he just, he hasn't had that. That type of performance.

[Luke Morrow]

Let me ask you this because I am curious. You know, this year we're assuming that the center very well will be a rookie who's making a change to that center position. So when we talk about Stroud having that command and the offense at the line and trying to improve and do better in year two, how big of an impact do you think that would have? If his center is a rookie who hasn't necessarily played a ton of center before, certainly not in the NFL, you know, how big of a role could that play?

[Seth Payne]

That's where I think that's the one of the biggest tests for CJ Being the genuine leader of the offense and really just, you know, being more Peyton Manning, like, really. And just even more so than Tom Brady. Just because I was on the field with Peyton Manning and I used to get embarrassed for offensive linemen when he would. When he would reprimand them. Not that. Not that CJ has to do it in the same style or fashion or anything, but like just being a completely psychotic, you know, control freak. There's that, like, there needs to be a little bit of that in you if you're going to be. If you're. If you want to operate in this offense the way that, like, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning are the ultimate control freaks. Did you hear the story that Sean told about Peyton Manning? Oh, no. We played the audio of Eli saying that basically at Eli's own birthday, Peyton Manning gave him. What are you supposed to talk about? Yes, like, Peyton gave Eli notes for. That's the kind of control freak you need to be when you're leading an offense like this.

[Luke Morrow]

Well, I heard the story where. Didn't you, like, MC an event with them and they made sure.

[Seth Payne]

Oh, yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

They gave you, like, strict talking points, right?

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, they. Yeah, Peyton. Peyton had very strict things about what I was and was not supposed to talk about, and I veered from it. I got the. I got that look. I got that look from Peyton Manning when I asked, when I was basically like. They gave me this. They basically wanted me to ask like a list of pre. Canned, like, canned questions. And I'm like, I can't do this. I'm not gonna. I'll use it as a guide.

[Podcast Narrator/Announcer]

Right.

[Seth Payne]

But we're gonna. We're gonna free flow a little bit.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. And he gave me the look that he used to give Jeff Saturday when Jeff Saturday screwed up the snap. But he doesn't. He didn't have any power over me.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

Right.

[Seth Payne]

I was doing. I'm Doing this event for free, Peyton. Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

You're like, sit down, nerd. Yeah, that's. That's funny.

[Seth Payne]

I'm doing this for charity. Are you?

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

Are you doing it for the. You accepting a fee for this, Peyton? I should have asked him that. How much was your fee for this event?

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, exactly. How much would you. Since you were on the other side there, like, what percentage would you say Peyton was actually calling the offense during those games? Was he doing, like, all of it?

[Seth Payne]

He was. Well, okay. So, I mean, like, usually what will happen and. Because when you can talk of different types of systems and everything, the. The Colts did something. It was different in a lot of ways than what the Patriots were doing. But I think that if you think about Peyton going to Kubiak in his system, like, by the time a guy's a veteran quarterback, it doesn't matter what system you're in. Like, guys are going to tweak things and they're going to modify routes and they're going to. They're going to make their. Their calls at the line of scrimmage to where it becomes more of a matter of. All right, depending on whatever the nomenclature is and everything. Like, the quarterback is calling the shots. The thing about the, the. The thing about the Colts, I would say, compared to maybe Tom Brady, is their offense was simpler in a lot of ways, but a lot of it was predicated on Peyton just kind of understanding the look and knowing the tendencies and getting into a different pre checked call or what. Like he was doing a lot. That was why the. You know, one of the things I got excited about them talking about this preseason was d' Ameco talking about the snap count and the hard counts and how much that matters. Because what Peyton would do is he'd come up to the line of scrimmage and you have 15 seconds left on the play clock. And then he would. You get everybody lined up, he would make an audible. It was probably a dummy call. And then he would have a hard count where he'd try to get a safety or somebody to just to show a little bit of something. And then that's when he would step back and he would make his real audible and his real change based on what he thought the defense was going to be. And that was the worst feeling is like a defensive lineman, because for one, you get tired, like being in your stance for that long. But then when you know you got a safety blitz called and he gives a hard count and then steps back out from under center and changes the call, you're like, oh, we're screwed, screwed. On this play, he knows exactly what we're doing. Because I know the safety, the safety like took a little stutter step forward or something like. That's the part where regardless of whether you're running more of a McVeigh system or a Belichick system or whatever it might be, it's the quarterback just diagnosing pre snap what the look, diagnosing what the defense is trying to do. And then however you get into the right call, getting into the right call. And it was just impossible for the Texans to operate that way in a lot of ways last year because they just didn't, they didn't have enough, they didn't have enough real estate on the play clock to do it. They were just still, they were just trying to get the snap off more so than really diagnose.

[Luke Morrow]

I got a follow up question. I'll ask you on the other side about all that. By the way, on the text line, they, a couple of texts came in saying they blew up the offensive line. They must think that's a big part of their struggle. Someone else said they couldn't run the ball. That, that is not on CJ So I get the idea. I acknowledge that the offensive line was not good enough. But it's almost like I never understood in baseball where if a pitcher commits an error, the runs become unearned. Where it's like, well, it was still your responsibility as a pitcher.

[Seth Payne]

What it is, is, I mean, it's almost like to make a rough pitching analogy, it's like a, if a reliever comes in and there's, you know, guys on base, those aren't his runs. If he gives, gives them up. That there's, there's a dynamic when you're in second long all the time or third long all the time. It's just a harder environment in which to operate. No matter who you are as a quarterback, nobody's actually really good at third and 10. They're better than others at converting third and 10. But the overall numbers don't look great compared to their other numbers, their overall third down conversion percentage. So the, the lack of the run game where it really hurts the quarterback is just that it puts him in tougher and tougher situations more often.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah. Yeah. Which is fair. 713-5724-610 on the text line. Coming up. Let's get back to the Astros after this big series victory over the weekend. How are we all the way back? Are we all in on the Astros at this point heading towards the All Star break. We'll talk about it next here on Pain and Pendergast.

[Jenna Fisher]

I'm Susie Welch, the host of Becoming youg, a podcast where I help you stop living by default and start living by design. Listen to Becoming youg wherever you get your podcasts.