HOUR 3 - PettyCast + How Good Will Texans Run Game Be? + Should an Offense be Smart or Explosive

Summary

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Payne & Pendergast – HOUR 3 Podcast Summary

Date: July 7, 2026
Hosts: Seth Payne (Former NFL player), Luke Morrow (Guest host, in for Sean Pendergast)

Episode Overview

Theme:
This hour brings the signature “PettyCast” segment with irreverent sports banter and tales of classic sports pettiness, then tackles the outlook for the Houston Texans’ run game, and finishes with a discussion on what makes an effective offense—should it be “smart” or “explosive?” Along the way, the hosts riff on memorable sports moments, weigh in on controversial roster decisions, and debate how much schemes vs. player intelligence really matter in the NFL.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

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1. PettyCast: Tales of Sports Pettiness

Timestamps: 01:28–21:02

a. Larry Bird’s “Rule” on Building a Team

• Audio Played: Former NBA player Jeff Teague recounts Larry Bird’s philosophy:

  "I’ll never pay anybody who played with LeBron. … He make them all look good. They all really sad."
  —Jeff Teague quoting Larry Bird [03:06–03:24]

• Reactions:

  • Seth: Impressed Bird acknowledged LeBron’s greatness over himself—rare humility among all-time NBA legends.
  • Luke: Calls Bird’s stance both unusual and “petty,” noting Bird’s usual confidence/“arrogance.”
  • Both connect Bird’s view to NFL coaches often overvaluing staff who worked with great QBs (e.g., Tom Brady or Peyton Manning) and underestimating the context of a system.

• Quote:

  "For a long time, I didn’t want an offensive coordinator who had worked with Tom Brady ... it becomes too easy for those offensive coordinators to think that they had more to do with Tom Brady’s success than they actually did."
  —Seth Payne [05:08]

b. Larry Bird as a Person

• Luke tells a story about meeting Larry Bird in Boston; Bird snubs him and his family.

  "He just blew us off. ... He was a jerk."
  —Luke Morrow [07:35]

• Seth reflects on how you never know what’s going on in someone’s life and jokes about Bird’s fashion sense [08:47].

c. Presidential Pettiness

• The hosts play a clip of Joe Biden reading to kids and poking fun at President Taft’s weight:

  • Biden teases about not wanting “to supersede his record” as the heaviest president.

• Extended comic riff on presidential body types, American obesity, and the odd legacy of Taft’s "bathtub myth."

  • Seth:

    "You had to be a rich man to get that fat. ... Now that’s probably a standard bathtub." [11:14]

d. Bill Simmons Email—Being a Charlotte Hornets Fan

• Bill Simmons reads a fan letter comparing being a Hornets fan to dating a “smoke show” who’s wild and fun but clearly not a long-term option.

• Seth and Luke riff on Houston sports analogies, comparing it to the 2020 Texans—talented and exciting but self-destructive.

• Quote:

  "They’d kind of operated like a, like a psycho and it was all unraveling right in front of us."
  —Seth Payne [15:29]

e. Former Redskins GM Scott McCloughan on QB Draft Busts

• McCloughan says:

  "Ty Simpson … he’s like J.J. McCarthy, he’s like Mac Jones. He’s a career backup, ideally."
  —Scott McCloughan via audio [17:39]

• Luke sympathizes with J.J. McCarthy, who “just keeps catching strays.”

f. Mike Vrabel's Wife & NFL Coach Tropes

• They discuss viral video of Mike Vrabel attending Taylor Swift’s wedding and joke about NFL coaches who always “bring their wife” everywhere due to relationship dynamics [20:19–21:02].

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2. Texans' Run Game: Did They Really Improve?

Timestamps: 22:59–33:54

a. ESPN's Running Back Rankings—David Montgomery’s Omission

• ESPN’s poll of NFL execs/coaches/scouts ranks top 10, then honorable mentions, then all receiving votes (total of 20 RBs).

  • New Texan David Montgomery is NOT listed at all.
  • Montgomery’s stats: 716 yards (30th in NFL), 8 TDs (tied 12th), not mentioned by any voter.

• Luke:

  “It’s just the idea that 20 different running backs did get a vote or mention, and Montgomery was not one of those 20 … amongst these minds, he wouldn’t be considered in the Top 20.” [25:38]

• Seth:

  • Not surprised; success only requires Montgomery to be “credible,” not “incredible.”
  • What matters: Solid short yardage, moving chains, red zone effectiveness—not 2,000-yard production.
  • “I just want a functioning rushing attack ... not necessarily a scary one.” [26:24]

b. Stat Focus: Montgomery’s Red Zone Value

• Luke shares:

  "Montgomery has more red zone touchdowns than all Texan running backs during [C.J. Stroud’s] time combined."

• Seth explains “success rate” metrics—both Montgomery and Lions RB Jameer Gibbs saw drops in 2025, tied to Detroit’s O-line injuries.
  • “That makes me feel better ... it was more about the offensive line and injuries ... than Montgomery just falling off a cliff.” [29:26]
• Running back split prediction: Montgomery expected to get around 2/3 of carries, Woody Marks the rest, mainly in third-down/passing situations. [31:05]

c. Durability Concerns

• Ethan:

  "Any time you’re a 29-year-old running back, it’s fair to worry about everything in terms of wear and tear on the body." [32:33]

d. Running Back Room Depth

• Skepticism that the “RB room” is the best it’s been in a while—concerns about depth if either Montgomery or Marks miss time [33:54].

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3. Smart vs. Explosive Offense: The Patriots Model

Timestamps: 36:29–45:38

a. Julian Edelman on “Smart” Patriots Offense

• Edelman, on his own podcast, describes the “strength” of Patriots’ attack as intelligence and chemistry, not explosiveness:

  "The strength of that team was … being smart. … Everyone was on the same page at all times."
  —Julian Edelman [37:54]

b. Texans Takeaway: Recreating New England?

• Seth:

  • Echoes how Houston eyes New England’s blueprint, noting many offensive coaches and Nick Caserio have Patriots roots.

  • Says "replicating" Patriots success isn’t unique—most teams add menu complexity as their QB matures.

  • Warns against overfocusing on system vs. talent:

    “It works really well if you’ve got one of the best quarterbacks of all time.” [41:27]

  • Emphasizes importance of deploying complexity as much as the QB (here, C.J. Stroud) can handle; notes optimism that Stroud might reach a command level akin to peak Deshaun Watson.

c. Browns & Deshaun Watson Contract Insurance

• Brief riff on Browns receiving ~$88M in salary cap credits over six years due to injury insurance on Deshaun Watson’s contract—removes some “schadenfreude” from the situation for fans wanting to see Cleveland “pay” for their gamble [43:30–45:38].

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Larry Bird’s rule:

  "I’ll never pay anybody who played with LeBron—he makes them all look good. … You go get them and they're not going to be the same player."
  —Jeff Teague, quoting Larry Bird [03:15]

• Seth, on coordinator/QB overvaluation:

  "I didn’t want an OC who had worked with Tom Brady … people think all you have to do is teach the system, without recognizing that Tom Brady’s ability to learn and execute is a skill unto itself." [05:08]

• Luke’s Boston story:

  “He just blew us off. … It was Boston, the city that made him. … He was a jerk." [07:40]

• Petty President Taft bit:

  "You had to be a rich man to get that fat. … Now that’s probably a standard bathtub."
  —Seth [11:14]

• On running backs:

  “It’s not like I … want to be the number one rushing offense in the NFL. … I just want to see a credible rushing attack.”
  —Seth [26:24]

• Smart vs. explosive:

  "Maybe they can make up for lack of explosiveness if they're all on the same page or more familiar in year two. That can lift the offense."
  —Luke [41:09]

• Edelman, on the Patriots:

  "We weren’t the most explosive group, but the strength of that team was being smart … the beauty of the Erhardt-Perkins is when everyone’s got it. Everyone was on the same page at all times." [37:54]

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Additional Nuggets

• O-Lines Matter: Hosts attribute much of Detroit’s and Jared Goff’s recent struggles to O-line injuries, reiterating their massive impact on both running and passing success.
• NFL Injury Insurance: Brief insight from Seth on prohibitive costs of player injury insurance and how it rarely pays off for individual players.
• Depth Worries: Seth and Luke both express skepticism that Houston’s current RB room is “the best in years,” highlighting lack of a high-upside third option.
• Texans Skepticism: While optimistic, both display reasonable caution against expecting New England-level results merely by copying the “Patriot Way.”

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Summary Table of Key Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------|------------------| | PettyCast Opening | 01:28 | | Larry Bird Petty Segment | 02:54 – 06:34 | | Presidential Pettiness | 09:09 – 14:24 | | Bill Simmons/Hornets Segment | 14:24 – 16:26 | | Scott McCloughan on QBs | 17:10 – 20:01 | | Texans RBs Segment | 22:59 – 33:54 | | Edelman on Smart Offense | 36:29 – 41:27 |

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Engaging Takeaways for New Listeners

• PettyCast delivers uproarious throwback athlete anecdotes, and lessons on not trusting surface-level stats or reputations—whether for NBA role players or NFL assistant coaches.
• The Texans’ run game is likely “solid, not spectacular,” aiming for respectability and red zone improvement more than star power.
• There’s real debate about what style of offense CJ Stroud and Houston should prioritize: clever, mistake-free precision, or explosive playmaking? Both hosts lean toward intelligence and cohesion, especially with a young QB in a maturing system.
• The hosts are candid, whip-smart, unafraid to poke fun at sacred sports cows, and deliver both depth and levity to Houston sports fandom.

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Transcript

[Seth Payne]

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[Luke Morrow]

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[Seth Payne]

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[Luke Morrow]

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[Seth Payne]

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[Luke Morrow]

Time to get petty here on Pain and Pendergast. We got the Petty cast coming up here in just a moment. I'm Luke Morrow in for Sean alongside Seth Payne.

[Seth Payne]

Thanks for remembering that it's pedicast today. I don't. That's, that's Sean's. I don't know if Parker tells the guys who come in and fill in for Sean just how much, just how little idea I have what's going on in the world. If you ask me like hey, when do we do the pedicast? I might be like out of Sunday mornings. I don't know. So. Thanks. Good job. As your, your first job is remembering which, which segments go where.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

And you've done well with that.

[Luke Morrow]

Oh, I appreciate it. It's, you know, I have to do my research to make sure I'm on top of things. But yeah, you know, hey, I've noticed, I think it was like the first time I had worked with you and you're like, I don't know, ask Ben. And I was like, oh, okay, yeah, that's Ben.

[Seth Payne]

How this Ben and Sean are the guys that know what. What is actually going on around here. I'm just along for the ride.

[Luke Morrow]

And shout out to Ben. I haven't mentioned his name. I haven't introed him at the start of the shows the last two days. But holding it down as always on the other side of the glass. Time for the Petty cast though, nonetheless, it does happen every Tuesday here at this time at. At 8am so let's get Petty. Let's get to some audio. This first one is Jeff Teague, former NBA player. And I'm trying to pull up the source of where he was. This was on the Volume network. That's Colin Coward's podcast network.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

And so Jeff Teague was talking about Larry Bird has one rule when building a team. Here's that rule for Larry Bird. We was chilling and he was talking about how good LeBron was and I

[Seth Payne]

was like, lebron better than you.

[Luke Morrow]

He said, lebron's the greatest player ever besides Michael. I was like, damn. He was. I'll never pay anybody who played with LeBron. I would never pick him up on my team.

[Seth Payne]

Damn.

[Luke Morrow]

I said, why?

[Seth Payne]

He said, because he make them all look good. They all really sad. He said, you go get them and they're not going to be the same player.

[Commercial/Announcer]

You want it.

[Seth Payne]

That's. Is that Petty by. You know what, that's impressive because it made the Petty cast. It's petty towards pretty much everybody who ever played with LeBron. And yet at the same time it's Larry Bird saying that, oh, no, no, I'm not in that category. LeBron's, LeBron's way better than me. You don't, you don't necessarily hear that out of some of the guys that are in the all time great conversations just casually giving up a. Given up a spot on the list.

[Luke Morrow]

Especially Bird, who's. Who is always very. At least confident. I was going to say arrogant. He was very confident. Probably arrogant too. So I'm surprised that Larry Bird said that. But yeah, that stood out to me as well. Props to him.

[Seth Payne]

He's also like that was before the current age. I don't think you could ever caught back in the day. I don't know if you would have caught most NBA players dead like power ranking themselves or anything or getting into that debate. Things have just changed so much and now the guys that are actually, you know, still in the media and everything will talk about it. And it's just. It's more standard, but I feel like that's a. It's hard to imagine a lot of the guys from the 70s, 80s, and maybe early 90s or 90s talking all that much about it.

[Luke Morrow]

By the way, is it Petty? My favorite Larry Bird story was when he decided to play with only his left hand against the Trailblazers in 1986, and I think scored like, 40 points in the game using his good pettiness.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, Petty, you know, Larry Bird with a Twitter account might feel a little bit like a young Alex Bregman. You know, he would just. Like a young Larry Bird, I think would have been warring with people on Twitter. So it's not. I'm not saying that, you know, he's any different than modern athletes or anything other than the era that he grew up in. As far as not signing anybody that played with LeBron because you get an inaccurate gauge of how good they are. I guess that's the. That's always the question is, all right, how do you account for that? And it's not like it's an exaggeration. Hearing it through Jeff Teague, I'm guessing that Larry Bird would more think, you know, you got to be really careful about. It's like in football when you sign a guy who just won a Super bowl and had a. You know, is the MVP of the super bowl or went through a really good playoff run. All right, what's he look like on a normal team in normal circumstances? Let's go with his career average. More so than that. For me, for a long time, I never. I didn't want an offensive coordinator who had worked with Tom Brady because I felt like, in the case of Bill o', Brien, it becomes too easy for those offensive coordinators to think that they had more to do with Tom Brady's success than they actually did or that anybody. Because Tom Brady doesn't look all that impressive physically, I think there's a temptation for people to believe that, oh, all we have to do is teach this guy the system. And he's even. He's got more impressive physical traits than Tom Brady. So he can be just as good as long as he just learns the system without recognizing that, okay, Tom Brady's ability to learn and execute that system is a skill unto itself, and it's just because you can't see it or measure it. Sometimes people delude themselves into thinking Brian Hoyer can do it or Ryan Fitzpatrick can do it or somebody else can do it. It's kind of an insult To Tom Brady.

[Luke Morrow]

I'm with you. Like, look for any. Yeah, any coordinators working with good quarterbacks. Adam Gase got head coaching jobs because he was Peyton Manning's offensive coordinator. I think, as we found out, it was more about Peyton Manning than it was Adam Gase. Nathaniel Hackett is another one who's gotten opportunities because, like, he was Adam. Aaron Rodgers quarterback coach or whatever, you know, Like, I think it was more about the. I think it was more about the quarterback than it was the coach.

[Seth Payne]

Well, Bruce Arians being the quarterback whisperer, I mean, like. All right. I mean, it kind of helps when you work with Ross Roethlisberger and Andrew Luck and ultimately, yeah, there's a little bit of the. The. The. The skill of the actual quarterback there that the guys that were good without Bruce Arians as well. But that's part of. That's part of where Bruce Arians is really smart. Choosing your. Choosing the tools you have to work with is part of being a good coach.

[Luke Morrow]

Absolutely. Yeah. By the way, last thing on this, I actually ran into Larry Bird while we're talking about pettiness, I ran into Larry Bird in Boston years ago. This was like 20 years ago. And he was a jerk.

[Seth Payne]

So was he.

[Luke Morrow]

What he do? He just blew us off. And it was in Boston. It's the city that made him.

[Seth Payne]

You ran into him just on the street?

[Luke Morrow]

No. So it's a whole story. So we were actually there for the Celtics, Indiana Pacers playoff game. And at the time, Bird was running the pace. He was with the Pacers. He was in the front office of the Pacers. So he was the quote, unquote enemy, but still, it was Boston. And we just happened to be walking down the street during the day, and we stumbled upon the Pacers team hotel. And so we saw the players just hanging out in the lobby.

[Seth Payne]

And.

[Luke Morrow]

And we went. They had security, but we, like, snuck in. And my mother claimed she had to use the bathroom. She just, like, stood in the bathroom for, like, 20 minutes. And I got to, I think, in Mrs. Morrow. That's right. And we met Jermaine O', Neal, Jamal Tinsley. I hung out with Scott Pollard for a while. Great guy. Reggie Miller was on that team. All the guys, they were just in the lobby. And Larry Bird was there. And I get it. He's. It's a quote unquote business trip, whatever. But he just. He gave us the cold shoulder. He was a. He was a jerk. He walked off. He was a jerk.

[Seth Payne]

He might have never known. He might have been running away from his daughter or something. You know, it's. Who knows what was going on at that point.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, that's right. Anytime somebody. You never know what they have going on. And I'm probably the obnoxious one. But anytime somebody doesn't reciprocate my excitement, I just call him a jerk. Like Larry.

[Seth Payne]

Was he wearing sneakers with a suit? That's what really pissed you off.

[Luke Morrow]

I could see that being a Larry Bird thing before it's become cool. He was wearing, like sketchers with a suit back then. Classic bird. This next one, God bless the text line. But here's. Here's the president reading to kids and couldn't help himself but to take shots at another former president.

[Seth Payne]

Others, like President William Taft, throw out the first pitch. Baseball. He was a large man, very large, and he loved baseball. He'd go to baseball games. Loved the hot dogs at the baseball games. He was our heaviest president. And I have to be careful because

[Luke Morrow]

I don't want to supersede his record

[Commercial/Announcer]

in a thing like.

[Seth Payne]

That would be possible if I allowed it to happen.

[Luke Morrow]

For all of you out there watching,

[Seth Payne]

keep yourself in good shape.

[Luke Morrow]

Right?

[Commercial/Announcer]

Like you.

[Seth Payne]

You're in such good shape. Okay. Awesome. If it was a chubby kid like you, you gotta watch it. You know what? I didn't. I. I hadn't heard or seen that. And I got to give him credit for conceding that. Like, hey, like, hey, whoa. I gotta, you know, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna throw this out. I gotta. Let's, let's. Let's address the elephant in the room here that I got. I could have some tendencies, too.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah. At least acknowledge that.

[Seth Payne]

But knew he was fat. You know, the political cartoonist back in the day. This wouldn't be some news or anything that he was pointing out that is that he had some weight troubles.

[Luke Morrow]

I think he was reading a baseball book, though. It was just the idea, like, I think he went out of his way to talk about how fat Taft is and then even mentioned, like, not just that he was a baseball fan, but he loved eating hot dogs and popcorn at the baseball game. It was just. He was just catching strays. It was great.

[Seth Payne]

Taft weighed around 330 to 350, according to my Google search.

[Luke Morrow]

And that was like the early 1900s. Right. Guys weren't as big back then. I think the.

[Seth Payne]

The bat. You had asked about the bathtub story, I think it was. There was a massive. They had to bring in a custom bathtub to handle his massive frame, which, I mean, let's be Fair. You know, back in the day, yeah, 330 or 350 was something that was pretty rare. You had to be a rich man to get that fat. Where nowadays that's probably a standard bathtub. They probably. It's probably the bathtub that remains in the White House today because they're like, oh, yeah, this is the standard American bathtub.

[Luke Morrow]

Now, he was an innovator.

[Seth Payne]

We call it the Taft.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, he was ahead of his time. It does stink. And I googled it. The story is a myth that he got stuck in the bathtub. That part's the myth. But it does stink. That that's. He was a president and that's his legacy. Whenever I hear Howard, I don't know what he did in office, but I do know this now made up story, I guess that he got stuck in a bathtub. It stinks. That that's, that's your legacy 100 years after you passed away, that people are laughing about how you got stuck in a bathtub because you were so, so fat.

[Seth Payne]

The heaviest president, according to Statista, was William Howard Taft, followed by Grover Cleveland.

[Luke Morrow]

Oh, yeah, he was a big.

[Seth Payne]

Grover Cleveland is the best. I always think of him when I think of overweight presidents. Just because he like Grover. That sounds like a big fella, doesn't it?

[Luke Morrow]

Right.

[Seth Payne]

Cleveland, Not a very glamorous last name. And then tied, tied at 237. Donald Trump and Theodore Roosevelt. I was surprised that because Theodore Roosevelt wasn't as tall as Trump. That's impressive. I'm surprised that Roosevelt was that heavy by his later years, I guess.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, yeah. And Grover Cleveland also has the Andy Reid, like, walrus mustache. So it just, it just fits. That fits the big guys. It makes him look even, even bigger or heftier. And that was the late 1800s.

[Seth Payne]

Bill Clinton sixth on the list, just behind Zachary Taylor.

[Luke Morrow]

Bill Clinton. I didn't realize he was the 20th.

[Seth Payne]

It feels like that. I. You know what? I got to give it credit. I thought this would be more heavily weighted into the 20th century, in the 21st century. But I guess part of it too is that even though Americans have gotten bigger, the, the, the, the, the. How your appearance has mattered more, I guess, as we've gotten into the television age. So maybe back in the day it didn't hurt you as much to be a William McKinley or something, or James Garfield like a, like a portly fella by the day.

[Luke Morrow]

That's true. Hey, on the Twitter line, the text line, I should say, says they weren't called fat cats for no Reason. So maybe it was like you said, like, only the rich people were fat. It was almost a positive.

[Seth Payne]

No, we're living in a crazy time in human history. Like, this is the first time where obesity has been an issue for the poor. You know, like, mass starvation tends to be the problem. More so throughout history. And now we're in an era where, like, it's actually the exact opposite. Which, I mean, I don't. I don't know if we should be somehow grateful for that. I know it doesn't feel like the appropriate feel, but maybe a little attaboy to ourselves, you know, like, all these other countries make fun of how fat we are. Like, yeah, we got excess calories floating around all over the place. What do you expect us to do?

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, everyone from the World Cup. Well, everyone's finding out why and how.

[Seth Payne]

They're getting pretty fat in other countries, too. It's a lot of these countries. You ever. You seen an Englishman lately? Some portly fellas over there. They're still wearing their tiny little T shirts and everything. Bill Burr does a good bit on this when he's over in England. He's like, wait, you guys are. You guys are fat like us sitting there? Like, I'm not gonna sit around and get shamed for being fat when you guys are just as chubby, a little James Corden looking bloated. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

Well, that's because they're most known for, like, fried fish and French fries. Hey. As we continue on the Petty cast, Bill Simmons was reading some fan mail on his podcast. He got this email from a Charlotte Hornets fan describing what it's like to be a Hornets fan. Here's Bill Simmons reading the email. Josh and Rally. Imagine you're dating an absolute smoke show in college who is tons of fun but completely insane. She's amazing in bed and at parties, but she also goes through her phone when you're not looking. Also, she's a horrible driver. You know it's not gonna last. And that she isn't the kind of girl to introduce to your parents. So you break up. Deep down, you know she wasn't long term solution. But when she's gone, you just feel alone. And that sucks. That's how it feels to be a Hornets fan right now. Josh really went deep. I was almost tied in Obsession. I was trying to figure out where that was going.

[Commercial/Announcer]

And then.

[Luke Morrow]

Then you figured it out. It landed in. It landed in a good NBA place, actually. I. Good email. Zach Lowe was that second voice that, I don't know, wasn't really having fun with it. But that's an email from a Hornets fan describing what it's like to be a Hornets fan right now.

[Seth Payne]

Is that what's the closest team in recent Houston memory that's felt like that? Would it be the 2000, the 2020 Texans, just because they did have so much talent on paper and you had Deshaun Watson and. Yeah, and that was before we knew anything about the allegations that would come. It was just such a mess in so many ways. And they had made all these crazy. They'd made a bunch of crazy off season moves. They had done. They'd kind of operated like a, like a psycho and it was, it was all unraveling right in front of us.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, I think that's the best one because yeah, it crumbled. And similar to the Hornets where they were a playoff team and won like one of the playing games last year and they or this past season, there was excitement. And then this offseason they just go and trade away like their two best players and it's like, well, what the heck, I thought we were a playoff team. So yeah, the fact that like you had that excitement and then it just all quickly comes apart. I think your Texans example probably is the best.

[Seth Payne]

I'm going to go to the roster rankings because right now that's what we get is a whole bunch of stuff about, you know, roster rankings and everything headed into the season. Texans are okay. So going into that year The Texans were 23rd ranked roster. So not as much of a. Yeah, I was, I was thinking they'd be. It might be mid ranked more so. But they had, they had issues all over the place.

[Luke Morrow]

Wow. Would you say 23rd?

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. Going into that season.

[Luke Morrow]

I'm surprised by that. Here's.

[Seth Payne]

Well, they had, you know, they had collapsed defensively in the playoffs the year before and they did nothing about it other than let DJ Reader go and sign Eric Murray and pay him like a starting cornerback in the league. That was their, that was their solution on defense going into 2020.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, for sure. This other piece of audio here on the Petty cast, this is former when they were called the redskins. Former Redskins GM Scott McLuhan. Yeah, that's how he says it. Thank you. This was McLuhan making a radio appearance in the D.C. area over the weekend. And the reason why I put this on here, he's talking about Ty Simpson, but a couple other guys also get hit with strays, which is why we included it. Here's the former gm.

[Seth Payne]

Is there a player in that first round that you thought was overdrafted. I think the quarterback from Alabama was overdrafted. Okay. Ty Simpson. But it's the position alone, I think, not being a guru, but he's like J.J. mcCarthy. He's like Mac Jones. He's a career backup. Ideally. Ideally, he might start, but that's because of where his pick was, and they want to prove him, everybody. Right.

[Luke Morrow]

Type of thing.

[Seth Payne]

And that's not the way you should build a roster. Not at all. Yeah. So J.J. mcCarthy, like, is 100% that guy. Where it just feels like, man, especially because of the Sam Darnold scenario, like when you had. You had Sam Darnold in the building, and it's so weird to talk about this like this, but that. All right, he's a viable NFL quarterback no matter what he does in his career afterwards. Like, you can't take away what. What he did last year and that you just so casually tossed him aside to the point now where you're. You're trying to do. You're trying to do with Kyler Murray what maybe you could have done with Sam Darnold. That. That's. That's. That's a. That's a big misstep. Scott McLuhan. Scott McLuhan was the one that was alleged by his ex wife or his wife at the time to have been having an affair with Rossini. Right?

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, it was his wife at the time. I don't know if they're still together or not.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

But, yeah, she's the one that. That put it out there. That was really, I think, the initial. The first rumblings of Rossini, you know, doing some of this nefarious stuff. But, yeah, he was the one. So that's what. I guess it's just a coincidence, but it is funny that last week we had the Rossini video where she's taking a shot at JJ McCarthy while talking to the police. And then we get this audio where now Scott's taking a shot at J.J. mcCarthy. And as you mentioned, there's that connection from the past between Scott and Rossini. Not saying, just saying. But also, I feel bad for J.J. mcCarthy. He's just trying to, like, enjoy his off season. And everywhere he looks, people are just making fun of him or giving him a hard time, telling him he sucks. He's like, man, I'm just. It's the off season. I'm just trying to get better and enjoy my off time.

[Seth Payne]

Just gonna add fuel to the fire for nine to do what nine does, man. That's what. That's what Nine does. He takes all the haters energy and turns it into really mediocre football.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, I guess so. There's no audio, but we talked about it yesterday. Maybe on the Petty cast we can include Mike Vrabel's wife dragging him to the Taylor Swift wedding on Friday. I don't know if that counts because we also got the video that came out from over the weekend of Diana Rossini and her family on a cruise.

[Seth Payne]

You know what? We did have that. You know, the one thing that Vrabel does have though now it's kind of nice, is that he's got the. For the rest of his life he won't have to explain why he brought his wife with him. You know, like guys camping trip or whatever. The guys I'm bringing my wife and they're like, yeah, get it? Yep. Okay, cool. There's always a guy. There's always a guy who's always got his wife with him and that you kind of realize there's a reason for it. It's not necessarily that she's not, she's not controlling like naturally. It's just that it got to a point in the relationship where it was, okay, you're not allowed out, you're not allowed out of your wife's sight. And I kind of get it. All right, we understand the situation.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, it's the case with Ravel now. They're, they're a joint deal from here on out. That's the Petty cast here on this Tuesday coming up, how, how serious or how improved really is the Texans running back situation? We'll talk about that next. Payne and Pendergast.

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[Luke Morrow]

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[Seth Payne]

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[Luke Morrow]

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[Seth Payne]

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[Luke Morrow]

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[Luke Morrow]

Save up to 30% your first [e-mail] podcast terms apply. How well did the Texans actually address the running back situation? It's Payne and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow, in for Sean alongside Seth. Payne can always get to us on the YouTube and Twitch chats or join the conversation in the text line. 713-572-4610 Seth it's list time of the year as we get ready for training camp and there's not much else going on in the NFL. Everyone loves to put out their different lists and rankings of different position groups and teams and whatnot. Anything you could think of. And admittedly I like to take the bait, especially this one. I do like ESPN does this every year where they ask executives, coaches, scouts to rank. They only do the top 10 but they always add the receiving votes section as well. And so you get a ranking of the top at each position group and they've started. I think this running backs list is the first one and then they'll go through all the different position groups here for the next week or so. And I do, I do always like looking at this each year. But anyways they just put out the running backs list here in the last 24 hours. So I was looking at it and I didn't expect David Montgomery to be in the top 10. Bijan Robinson's number one for those interested. Actually Jameer Gibbs. The other form, you know the other Lions running back from a year ago is number two. But then you scroll down and you get to honorable mention. Not there. Okay. You get to also receiving votes. Oh, not there. And there's 20 different running backs on this list that receives some sort of votes from executives, coaches, scouts in the league.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

So I don't know where he would rank exactly. But I do know David Montgomery is not in the top 20 and maybe that shouldn't be a surprise.

[Seth Payne]

I think, I guess, you know, what I would say is that I, since they're asked to rank the top 10, that now did. Were they asked to rank the top 20 or were they asked to rank the top 10? They were asked to rank the top 10. So if everybody I could see, I could totally 100% see nobody ranking David Montgomery in the top 10. Yet at the same time that they were asked to rank the top 20, he, he might squeeze in there with a few of these guys. But like when they're looking at, you know, some of the names that made it for the top 10 people, like somebody put Ashton Genty, where I think a lot of people look at Ashton Genti as a guy that boy was in a really bad circumstance. If he had been on a good team, his, some of his like, he actually would have been a much better performing player. So that's, that's my like rose colored glasses way of looking at that.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah. And that and that, that is certainly fair. So I guess we shouldn't expect to be in the top 10. But it's just the idea that 20 different running backs did get a vote or mention and Montgomery was not one of those 20. So, you know, if so facto, whatever, you know, I guess I'm trying to make the case that amongst these minds he wouldn't be considered in the top 20 overall. Some would disagree.

[Seth Payne]

No, and it really, it's regardless, I mean that's like a, it's still kind of a depressing thing to argue about whether like, no, he'd be 18th if they did it with a different methodology. Damn you, Morrow. The methodology is all off on this. I think that with Montgomery, I don't know, I don't recall hearing people excited because they expect Montgomery to be a 2000 yard back or anything.

[Luke Morrow]

Right.

[Seth Payne]

I think that for the most part what people really want to see is just a credible rushing attack, not an incredible rushing attack. Just can you be a functioning rushing attack. And when you look at David Montgomery paired up with Woody Marks and then whatever happens after that, whether it's Jawar Jordan or somebody else, I think it just feels like it's a more, it's a more solidly formidable rushing attack, if not a scary rushing attack. And what I want out of David Montgomery more than anything is just that they can convert in these short yardage situations or on first down that they're gaining 4 yards instead of gaining 2 yards. It's not, I don't, I don't have dreams or aspirations of being the number one rushing offense in the NFL. So I'm, I'm not like, overly rankled by this. It would be awesome if. It would be awesome if a bunch of unnamed anonymous executives said, yeah, you know, he really got screwed over last year was, was, was Montgomery. And he's actually one of the best five backs in the league. He's not. But really what he needs to be for this team is somebody that just steadily grinds out yardage and then especially in short yardage situations and in the red zone can give you more of a hammer than what you had last year with either an aging Nick Chubb or a young and undersized Woody Marks.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, which is totally fair. You mentioned the red zone. That's the big thing for me. One of my favorite stats about David Montgomery is in C.J. stroud's career. Montgomery has more red zone touchdowns than all Texan running backs during that time do combined.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, well, yeah, he was. Amongst running backs, he had the 12th. He was tied for 12th with eight touchdowns last year. There are a few guys that had eight touchdowns last year as running backs. Well, yeah, 716 yards rushing. That was 30th in the league. And you know, Jameer Gibbs became the guy. The one little tidbit about that that was interesting is that Gibbs, like Gibbs had a great year, you know, and he's very much up there. I don't know where he finished in these rankings, but the success rate. So success rate for rushing is just how, how many yards, what percentage of the, what percentage closer did you get to the first down marker on any given down based on down in situations? So like on first down, I think it's four yards on second down and six, you got to get a certain percentage. So they got. Montgomery and Gibbs both took a big step backwards last year in terms of their success rate. That speaks to the issues that they're having on the offensive line with the Lions last year. So like I, I remember looking at Montgomery and seeing that his success rate was lower last year and you know, how much of that is because of the offensive line? How much is it because David Montgomery took a step backwards? The fact that Montgomery's success rate went down by about the same amount makes me feel better about some of Montgomery's drop off or whatever it was. Last year was more about the offensive line and injuries and Jameer Gibbs becoming more of the guy than it is that, you know, David Montgomery is just approaching that precipice where he falls off a cliff.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, that's interesting. I would not guess that they were both down that low and in that same.

[Seth Payne]

It was still respectable, but it was. They had been like 50% success in the couple years prior and now they're down. They were last year they were down around 44% or so or something like that.

[Luke Morrow]

And, and this is a, just a quick sidebar. That was my whole thing for the Lions and Jared Goff and whatnot, that they just had such a great offensive line. If you look at the numbers, no quarterback has a bigger disparity in their numbers between when they're pressured and when they're not pressured than Jared Goff. And we saw, like you said, the whole offense took a step back last year because A, you lose Ben Johnson, but B, they also lost two, at least two starting linemen, including their center. Offensive line wasn't as good last year in Detroit and the whole offense suffered, including the running backs a little bit as well.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. So David Montgomery, like in 2024, he'd been 55.1% success rate. He went down to 46.2% just in one year. Which sounds, which sounds alarming until you realize that, okay, Jameer Gibbs, even, you know, despite the year he had, wasn't as consistently successful as he'd been in his previous years. You know, those two years prior to that, he had been at like the year before, he was at 53.6%. Last year he dropped down to 46.5%.

[Luke Morrow]

What would you expect the, the carry share to be between Montgomery and Woody Marks? Do you think it's going to be kind of like a 55, 45, close to even? Or do you think Montgomery is going to get the vast majority of the carries in the backfield?

[Seth Payne]

I think the, I think that he's probably initially going to get two thirds of the carries.

[Luke Morrow]

Okay.

[Seth Payne]

And in some of that depends on what they're doing on third downs when you know, and in passing downs when you're more likely to see Woody Marks. But I think with Woody, part of it is that man, we saw last year look in bad circumstances, but still bad. He was getting injured a lot. I mean, it was like, it felt like every game he was leaving with an injury at some point. And for young running backs especially, some of that is learning just how to handle the wear and tear, the week to week grind that is the NFL and what you do with your recovery and all of that. But I'm, I'm guessing They're going to want to just try to keep him as much as possible successful but also still adapting to playing in the NFL as a smaller guy, being used hopefully more as a receiver than as a first down running back as much as you can.

[Luke Morrow]

So with that said, before we hit the break here, I've been wondering about this and so I would love your thoughts on it. Montgomery hasn't been like that lead back in a couple of years. Do you think that helps or hurts? Do you think that helps the body? It's not the, you know, like he's not your normal 29 year old or do you think that could almost lead to more wear down as the season goes along if he's getting more carries than he's been used to?

[Seth Payne]

Oh, like it's just going to be a shock to his system that all of a sudden he's back up to.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, he's not used to getting that many touches and that many hits, you know, week to week, whatever.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, he's, you know, he's never been a huge heavy workload guy, but he's down to like he only had 158 carries last year, 185 the year before. But yeah, that's a, it's a fair point to bring up. I think anytime you're a 29 year old running back, I think everything, everything. It's fair to worry about everything in terms of wear and tear on the body.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, it's true.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. No, no, I don't think I, you know, I think it was. Cody stutes. Cody said that he thinks this is the best running backs room they've had in a long time. And I guess my initial knee jerk reaction to that would be, man, I don't know if you can say that when depending on how back far I, how far back he went. I didn't look at his article yet. But like in terms of what's the peak ability of your running back compared to. Okay, I feel good about David Montgomery and Woody Marks, but I don't think either of those guys is necessarily a Joe Mixon, you know, in his first year with the Texans in terms of what his overall potential is. So I still have a lot of concerns about who the third running back is going to be if one of those guys realistically, either Woody Marks or David Montgomery is going to miss some time due to injury this year. I'm not just 100% slam dunk confident in any of the backups at this point.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah. Which I think is fair. I'm with you on that you can find the list. By the way, the full rundown for Those interested on ESPN.com I imagine they'll come out with another position group today. Their top 10 rankings. Hey, when we come back, Julian Elman had some potential interesting insight on this Texans offense. We'll talk about that next.

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[Luke Morrow]

A morning walk, some bird watching. It's another easy Sunday UnitedHealth Group makes these ordinary days possible with partners like the University of Tennessee Health Sciences helping communities manage their health closer to home, 54% of participants have lowered their blood pressure, meaning fewer heart attacks and more Sundays at the park. This might feel like an ordinary day to UnitedHealth Group. It's the healthcare system working better for everyone. Learn [e-mail] Commitment Pacifico the crisp Mexican lager that wasn't brewed to blend in. We were made for the moments when you live like you mean it. When you don't. Just when you just hear the music, you feel it. When you let the bonfire burn into the night and find places you'd never spot on a map. So when the moment calls, choose to reach for the bright yellow can choose yellow choose Pacifico 21 plus Discover responsibly Pacifico Clara beer imported by Crown Imports, Chicago, Illinois I'm Susie Welch, the host

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[Luke Morrow]

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[Seth Payne]

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[Luke Morrow]

Julian Edelman offers up some maybe interesting insight on the Texans offense here in for 2026 pain and Pendergast I'm Luke Morrow, in for sean alongside Seth Payne 713-572-4610 to join the conversation on the text line. Also can jump in on the YouTube and Twitch chats as well. Julian Edelman obviously played for the Patriots, played in that Patriots offense. He was on a podcast here recently and was talking about. Again, I'm trying to find the source here. Oh, it's his own podcast. Okay. I gotta be honest with you. I'm bad at this. I don't keep up. Everyone's got a podcast. I can't keep up with all these podcasts and who's doing what and who's talking where.

[Seth Payne]

I would tell you to just not give a damn. It's, you know, I appreciate your. I appreciate you trying to. Sean does the same thing. Very concerned with being sure that proper credit is given. Screw them. It's on the Internet. It's everybody's.

[Luke Morrow]

I usually don't. And I don't give credit, but then I've been around here long enough for not only other people do like. Like Sean will, and then I feel bad or even if I'll say on air, like from some podcast, and then somebody else will jump in and be like, hey, it was this podcast. So, you know, I'm always guilted into it now shamed into it, to give this credit out. So, anyways, here's Julian Edelman on his own podcast, whatever it's called, talking about the. The Patriots offense.

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When you got.

[Luke Morrow]

When it was you and Dolan Gronk and Jojo, and it was just clicking and you guys could go, no huddle. So often. Oh, that was the best. That was like the strength of, you know, with Chris Hogan and Malcolm Mitchell and Dola, like, we weren't like the most explosive group, but the strength of that team was a smart. Like the. The.

[Seth Payne]

The. Everyone's on the same.

[Luke Morrow]

Everyone was smart. The beauty of the Earhart Perkins is when everyone's got it. Everyone's. Everyone was on the same page at all times.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. The. The. And I think that's, you know, that echoes everything that anybody's ever said about the Patriots. They have all these versatile players that are super smart and they know the system, and then, like, with the casual little details, that Tom Brady was the guy that was running the show.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

It's a beauty of the Earhart Perkins system. So whenever you hear somebody say Earhart Perkins, they're basically just talking about the system that New England was using all those years, which is it has a lot to do with the pass protection first and foremost, but then also the concepts that they use and in their play calling, in the pass game, but like a lot of it and being able to get the most out of all of those guys. It does start with having a quarterback who's one of the smartest quarterbacks who's played the game in the history of football. The I this is where, you know, and we're back in that same old boat now where we're trying to replicate a lot of the things that they did in New England. You know, Casteria first got here, people were, people are hypersensitive about any notion that okay, we're just going to try to copy New England. And now we've kind of just slid into like, oh, look at that. All these offensive coaches seem to come out of New England at some point and like lo and behold the we're trying to replicate what they did with Tom Brady. I think that where, where you get too nervous about that sometimes is in thinking that other teams don't do a lot of those same types of elements when they have veteran quarterbacks. It's usually a process of bringing young quarterbacks along till they get to the point when they're in their 30s, that they can't actually just control the game from behind a line of scrimmage, regardless of whatever you call the system. But that it's the most important thing is that you've got a coordinator that knows how much your quarterback can handle and when to, when to work. Some of these things in that are above and beyond in the higher level mental functioning type of stuff. And I think that's where Kaylee probably last year was trying to feel a lot of that out of like, okay, what, what, what, what does it. CJ in his first year in the system, what's he capable of doing? What is, what's the offense at large capable of doing? And it's a, it's a lot all at once this year. By the reports out from OTAs and minicamp and everything else, it seems like they're a lot further along in that process. But you just don't know until, until you get out there and play.

[Luke Morrow]

And that's what I'm trying to take solace. And that's what I liked from this clip is, is I've had concerns and you referenced Brandon Scott earlier. I know he's had concerns. We've talked about it of the lack of explosiveness for this Texans off. So I did like at least Edelman said or pointed out like, hey, you know, we weren't very explosive as an offense but we, we got over that by Just being smart. And so, at least for me, that offers up hope of, you know what, it might not be the most explosive offense, but they can make up for that if, like you were laying out, they are all on the same page or they are more comfortable and familiar with this offense here in year two that. That can make up for maybe some of the lack of explosiveness that they're going to be dealing with offensively.

[Seth Payne]

It works really well if you've got one of the best quarterbacks of all time. Also, that's. I mean, it's red as boy. It's almost. That's where I get it. I get annoyed sometimes where people will talk about the system excessively to the point where you're like, it's like telling. It's like telling somebody, oh, just use calculus to figure that problem out. Like, all right, if I don't know calculus, I know there's not much I can do. I mean, like, unless I can go run off to my chat. GPT that the biggest, the biggest confidence stoker that maybe you can give yourself as a Texans fan is that, man, honestly, everything that Bill o' Brien was teaching deshaun Watson and what they're trying to accomplish really was starting to come to a head and really worked in a lot of ways for Deshaun Watson in 2020. And ironically enough, it was also the same year in which Bill o' Brien was fired, you know, and that desean would end up having all these other issues off the field. But by that point, desean had kind of. And desean came out of a much more simplistic college system than CJ Stroud did. By that point, desean really had command of everything that Bill o' Brien was trying to teach him and wanted to accomplish to the point where, you know, he had the playbook at his disposal. When he got up to the line of scrimmage, it was just, it was too little, too late. And all of the, all of the GM decisions and roster decisions and everything led up to that, that perfect storm of just, just, just nonsense. But it's not like it's. It's not like it's the impossible thing to learn. And if you don't, you know, nobody's sitting here promising New England Patriots type results. We just want to get to an AFC championship game. First and foremost. I'm not, I'm not overly daunted by the fact that, like, it's not like Tom Brady's the only guy that can run that system, by the way. It's just he's the. He's the one who's run it the best.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah. Yeah. So good luck trying to. Trying to duplicate that. Exactly. By the way, we haven't mentioned it yet. Did you see the. Deshaun. Since you mentioned Deshaun Watson, did you see the whole. The Browns thing?

[Seth Payne]

What's the latest?

[Luke Morrow]

The news yesterday is that records show the Browns are receiving more than $88 million in salary cap credits due to insurance purchased for Deshaun Watson's injuries.

[Seth Payne]

Oh, okay. All right. So it's not. It's not hurting them as much, I

[Luke Morrow]

guess now, which is that gets credited

[Seth Payne]

this season or they just. Oh, no, they're getting back their cash. Yeah. It doesn't matter. Have anything to do with the cap. Right. Or does it?

[Luke Morrow]

I. So I guess it goes from 2024 to 2029. So I guess they do get cash, but I think also some cap space for future years, I guess, for the next couple years. I don't know. Well, no, that's only if he's in. Yeah. I don't know. Honestly, I don't know. Pro football talk had it. They said cash and cap space, but I'm not smart enough to understand how it helps with cap space. I don't know. But, yeah, it kind of takes some of the fun away from it, though. Like, I want the Browns to be in ruins or be. And be, you know, punished for giving all that. All that money and the guaranteed contract and everything and being. Having the unmitigated gall to go all in on the guy after all that.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

And now they're getting some of the money back because of insurance. That. That takes away some of the fun for me.

[Seth Payne]

The. So there's like, a $4.9 million credit in 2026. So it's nothing like that immediately is bailing them out from that quagmire or anything. It's enough for me that Mike Florio says he was really confused by all of it and then wrote 2,000 words about it. I'm not gonna read that article. I'm just gonna tell you when all of a sudden, this is the big boon that turns things around for the Browns this year, then I'll pay attention. But until then, I'm not. I'm not digging into that man.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, I'm surprised Florio even admitted that he was confused by it.

[Seth Payne]

You know, the injury insurance. That's an interesting one, because I never. I never had it when I was a player because it's expensive, like, and, like, to the point where you can see, like, yeah. Your risk of getting a pretty bad injury as an NFL player is a lot higher than the average person. And I can't remember what the premium was enough that I was like, ah, I'm just gonna. I'm gonna run the. I'm gonna run the. I'll just go ahead and take my chances on this one.

[Luke Morrow]

I don't. I don't blame you.

[Seth Payne]

It's. It's.

[Luke Morrow]

That's. That stuff's. That stuff's tough for some of these guys. Insurance in general, honestly. And I come from an insurance family, but there's a lot of.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, but your dad's not out there selling Lloyd's of London, you know, disability. NFL disability insurance, is he? I'll buy some now. I bet I'm dirt cheap on that. Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah. Sorry to break it. Yeah. I should have connected you guys decades ago. Yeah. Could have helped you. Hey, coming up. I made the case yesterday. We talked through it yesterday. The idea that the Texans, maybe they should be favored in the afc. Anyways, there's one national pundit who seems to agree with me. We'll hear from him next on the Texans. We'll do it after this. Payne and Pendergast.

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[Seth Payne]

Can you grab one more thing?

[Luke Morrow]

I'll come back up for you.

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[Luke Morrow]

Really? I gotta have another one.

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Today,

[Seth Payne]

prime presents perfect pairings. What pairs? With Reacher on Prime reaching for a sparkling punch delivered with Prime. It's an unbelievable feeling when you're enjoying a punch at the same time. Preacher is enjoying punching people. Wow. He's still punching people. Entertainment meets fast delivery. It's on prime as the U.S. men's National Team takes center stage at a home World Cup. Make sure you're listening to Call it what yout Want, part of the CBS Sports Podcast Network where you can join me. I'm Jimmy Conrad alongside Charlie Davies, Tony

[Luke Morrow]

Miola, Marcelo Balboa and Benny Feuelhaver throughout

[Seth Payne]

this tournament for previews, instant reactions and

[Luke Morrow]

analysis of every US Match.

[Seth Payne]

Then all summer, we're back every Tuesday and Thursday covering all things US Men's National Team. Download and follow. Call it what you want on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and wherever you get your podcasts. Real value shows up in reliability you don't have to second guess. Like a set of Firestone All Season tires, they're designed to deliver confidence, inspiring wet weather, traction and a quieter ride no matter the road, season after season. Firestone All Season tires for durability you can count on, just like people count on you. Firestone always dependable since 1900.