HOUR 3 - PettyCast + How's Stroud Stack Up to Top 10 QBs? + What Makes Azeez a Top 10 LB?

Summary

Payne & Pendergast – HOUR 3 (July 14, 2026)
PettyCast + How's Stroud Stack Up to Top 10 QBs? + What Makes Azeez a Top 10 LB?

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Episode Overview

In this episode, former NFL player Seth Payne and guest co-host Chris Partee (in for Sean Pendergast) deliver a characteristically lively hour of Houston sports talk. They kick off with their trademark "PettyCast," dissecting the pettiest moments in recent sports news, from UFC production blunders to Dan Patrick’s beef with the WNBA commissioner, and Patriots fans speculating about Tom Brady. The show then transitions to deep NFL analysis, debating C.J. Stroud’s placement in the NFL’s current quarterback hierarchy and breaking down ESPN’s top 10 linebackers list, focusing on why Texans LB Azeez Al-Shaair is deservedly climbing the ranks.

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PettyCast: A Celebration of Sports Pettiness

[01:30–16:50]

UFC's Celebrity Slip–Up: Shakur Stevenson Misidentified

• At UFC 329, boxer Shakur Stevenson is shown on-screen with the graphic “Jalen Williams, Oklahoma City Thunder guard, 2025 NBA champion.”
• Dana White, known for hyping his production staff, publicly calls out the error.

  "We are the absolute worst to ever do the celebrity thing...We put up graphics and put the wrong guy's name on it. We win. We’re the worst ever to do it."
  — Dana White ([03:16])

• The guys laugh about how tense it must be to run production for live sports:

  “That’s my biggest fear…to be the person responsible for the celebrity cameo and not know what they look like.”
  — Ben Gary ([04:47])

The WNBA’s Commissioner No-Shows Dan Patrick

• WNBA commissioner Kathy Engelbert agreed to a Dan Patrick Show interview but failed to appear, with no explanation.
• Dan Patrick expresses his frustration on-air:

  "If you want to be treated as a serious league, then do these [media] things…when you tell me…then two hours later with no update…and she’s 50 yards away hitting practice shots…We deserve more respect than what she gave us."
  — Dan Patrick ([07:04])

• The hosts debate if Patrick is being petty or pulling a “do you know who I am?” move.

  "I'm almost feeling a little bit petty towards Dan Patrick on this one."
  — Ben Gary ([08:35])

Patriots Fans Speculate on Tom Brady's “Betrayal”

• Seahawks coach Mike Macdonald hints at Super Bowl help from someone with a “conflict of interest,” fueling rumors it was Tom Brady, ex-Patriot and part-owner of the Raiders.
• Patriots superfans are incensed, especially after Brady said he had "no dog in the fight."
• Dave Portnoy (Barstool) fans the flames:

  "If this doesn't piss you off as a Patriots fan, you are dead on the inside. …The guy has a statue in front of our ste. What a joke."
  — Dave Portnoy (quoted by Ben Gary) ([11:09])

• The hosts aren’t convinced by Macdonald’s denial that it wasn’t Brady:

  "Every denial that he issues afterwards is bogus."
  — Ben Gary ([13:43])

• They riff on NFL pettiness among players and coaches, with Payne sharing how “divas” and petty jealousy can poison team culture:

  "The jealousy over your teammate’s success is the worst. It just drains all the energy from everything."
  — Seth Payne ([16:15])

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The Top 10 Quarterbacks: Where Does C.J. Stroud Really Rank?

[18:37–32:20]

Context for the Ranking

• ESPN’s Jeremy Fowler polled 70 NFL execs, coaches, and scouts to rank QBs. The hosts prefer this to the more subjective NFL Top 100.
• C.J. Stroud, after a promising start, lands in the bottom tier this time—grouped with Bo Nix and Mac Jones (18–20 range).

Dissecting the List (10–1, reverse order)

[23:22–31:27]

• 10. Caleb Williams (recent improvement, but hosts say “recency bias”—still more erratic than Stroud)
• 9. Jared Goff (accomplished and consistent—“cool with him above CJ right now”)
• 8. Drake May (not a rookie technically; benefitted from an easy schedule, but production speaks)
• 7. Justin Herbert (taken as more established than Stroud; playoff criticisms linger)
• 6. Dak Prescott (steady, productive, with better weapons than Stroud)
• 5. Lamar Jackson

  "There’s no way in hell I’m putting [Stroud] above Lamar…he’s a two-time MVP."
  — Seth Payne ([27:04])

• 4. Joe Burrow (Clearly talented, but Payne questions the Bengals’ playoff drought; system-vs-talent debate)

  "Burrow doesn’t play in a system—he is the system."
  — NFL Coordinator, quoted ([29:48])

• 3. Matt Stafford (benefits from perfect setup with scheme, play caller, weapons)
• 2. Patrick Mahomes (gives Mahomes leeway for current struggles due to résumé; but can’t ride legacy forever)
• 1. Josh Allen (Mentioned but not deeply discussed this segment)

Stroud’s Outlook

• The hosts emphasize these are not career-defining rankings; Stroud can rise fast with the right supporting cast and continued development.

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What Makes Azeez Al-Shaair a Top 10 Linebacker?

[35:05–44:45]

ESPN's Top 10 LB Rankings Breakdown

• Fred Warner, Roquan Smith top the list; Aziz Al-Shaair debuts at #6.
• Dramatic recent rise: unranked last season, now with high and low votes as high as 3rd and some not ranking him at all.
• Payne explains why Aziz excels in DeMeco Ryans’ demanding scheme:

  “Where Aziz really excels…is having the football IQ to really understand his pre-snap reads and diagnose play action. So it's his football IQ that really—there's a lot of guys that might be physically talented that would have a hard time doing what Aziz does.”
  — Seth Payne ([39:17])

• On the “Dennis Rodman of linebackers” quote from a coordinator:

  “He gets in everyone’s head, he can run all day, and he can play every down.”
  ([40:58]) Payne considers it a mixed compliment—they agree Aziz is a disruptive force but a true three-down player, not just a specialist.

Discussion on LB Play and NFL Schemes

• Payne praises schemes that fit personnel & highlights how Houston’s defense requires both athleticism and intelligence at linebacker.
• Briefly compares Bobby Wagner’s career longevity and his potential value as a locker-room mentor for Houston.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Dana White on UFC production:

  "We put up graphics and put the wrong guy’s name on it. We win. We’re the worst ever to do it." ([03:16])

• Dan Patrick on WNBA snub:

  "If you want to be treated as a serious league, do these. These are tough questions but this is a fair, fair outlet for you, a fair platform."

• Seth Payne on petty teammates:

  "The jealousy over your teammate’s success is the worst. ... Drains all the energy." ([16:15])

• On LB Aziz Al-Shaair:

  "He’s the Dennis Rodman of linebackers. He gets in everyone's head, he can run all day and he plays every down." ([40:58])

• Payne on Aziz’s value:

  "His football IQ that really…There’s a lot of guys that might be physically talented that would have a hard time doing what Aziz does." ([39:17])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• PettyCast (UFC/Stevenson, WNBA/Patrick, Tom Brady rumor): [01:30–16:50]
• NFL QB Top 10, Dissecting the List: [18:37–32:20]
• Inside the LB Rankings, What Makes Aziz Top 10: [35:05–44:45]

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Overall Tone & Flow

True to Payne & Pendergast style, the hour is filled with sharp, occasionally irreverent sports banter, inside anecdotes, and keen analysis. The episode takes listeners from amusing displays of sports pettiness to substantive debates on player evaluation—all with clear Houston flavor and a conversational tone that’s equal parts informative and relatable.

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This summary hits all the important points, quotes, and context, providing a rich overview for those who want the highlights and insights—without the ads, intros, or filler.

Transcript

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[Chris Partee]

Hey, Seth Payne. I'm Chris Partee. I'm in today for Sean Pendergast, taking a much needed rest day. And Seth, you ready to get petty here?

[Ben Gary]

I'm ready to get petty. This is the Petty cast, where we celebrate pettiness in all its forms. I love it. And include anything that we're petty about along the way or any of our listeners. Yeah, and Sean, by the way, I should have explained this a few times. Sean's voice just kind of was. He got stuck in a situation where he was just inhaling dry air for a long time and his voice got all screwed up. So he's gonna take a couple of days off here, but the first one up on the docket, and Sean put all these together, so Sean's probably sitting at home listening so he can get worked up and petty about it. But UFC 320, 329, as they tend to do, had a bunch of celebrities in attendance at T Mobile arena in Las Vegas. And among those in attendance for Conor McGregor's ill fated return fight was Shakur Stevenson.

[Guest or Interviewee]

The

[Ben Gary]

who's the latest Zufa Boxing signing? So fighter Shakur Stevenson was there and he got a quick shot appearance on camera. However, the on screen graphic for Stevenson instead read Jalen Williams, Oklahoma City Thunder guard, 2025 NBA champion. Here's. Here's what that sounded like.

[Chris Partee]

2025 Shakur Stevenson. That is not Jalen Williams.

[Ben Gary]

What is that? Yeah, so Dana, Dana White. So Dana White, you know, the czar or the owner, however, whatever his official title is with us ufc, we all know Dana White. I've heard him, I've heard him a lot of times, being very complimentary about his production staff and just how amazing they are at putting out really well edited videos really quickly. This is how he felt about them on that particular evening.

[Dana White]

I tell you all the time, my production team, we just did the White House. We built a arena on the south lawn of the White House. And it was the greatest thing in the world to be there live and to watch it on tv. I just paid Shakur Stevenson a load of money. And for some reason we can't figure this celebrity out. They put him up as a OKC NBA player. Are you kidding me? I mean, it's just, it's absolutely crazy, but we are the absolute worst to ever do the celebrity thing. When we put celebrities up, we are the worst. I just had this debate in the back with my guys while I was screaming at everybody back there and they said, no, soccer's worse. Soccer shows the people. And they don't, they don't put up any graphics. Oh, no, we put up graphics and put the wrong guy's name on it. We win. We're the worst ever to do it.

[Chris Partee]

Crazy.

[Ben Gary]

I feel like the fact that he's very. He did the old compliment sandwich there. He just left the last piece of bread. The follow up compliment off of it. I feel like it was, it was specific. That's a good thing about, you know, if you're going to criticize, then it's, you need to be very specific. And I feel like he was really, really specific in what they do. He complimented them for how good they are overall, but that they're just atrocious in that one, that one facet.

[Chris Partee]

Oh, my goodness. Yeah, he, that, that was hilarious. I mean, I've heard Dana White go, go off before or, you know, be critical, but I mean, he, he really, he went, he went deep there.

[Ben Gary]

I don't, that's my, my biggest fear. The thing I would least want to do in any kind, sports Production would be the person who's responsible for the celebrity.

[Guest or Interviewee]

The.

[Ben Gary]

The celebrity cameo appearance. And not really knowing, you know, like, how many guys. How many guys that spend their lives working in MMA know exactly what Jalen Williams looks like. I mean, they should know what Shakur Stevenson looks like because they've probably done some videos with him just recently. But, like, the MMA though, too, that's a smaller. It's one thing if you're going around a football stadium and you've got multiple different cameras all over the place, I feel like this would be the easiest place to do it. It's a very small area with the ringside seating. They should be able to get it sorted out pretty well. And I'm guessing that Shakur Stevenson was sitting in the wrong seat. I'm going to give you.

[Chris Partee]

That's what you're going to say.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah, I think that's right. They had it all set up that the cameraman and whatever.

[Chris Partee]

That could have been it, though, honestly.

[Guest or Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Ben Gary]

No, especially when you think about the different people involved, because the announcers realized it right away, though. You never want to be the announcer that's just reading the card that they're giving you, like, so credit to them for recognizing it right away. So then it turns down to like, okay, the cameras guys told to stand in front of this one spot. He doesn't know what any of anybody looks like. Then you got somebody else up. All right, this one, this one. I. I'm most intrigued by this partly because I still don't think I've seen an official response from the wnba. Maybe I'm wrong on that. I searched for it this morning, but Kathy Engelbert, the WNBA commissioner, was scheduled to go on the Dan Patrick show last week. They were at the American Century Championship celebrity golf tournament. You saw. I don't know if you've seen. Dan Patrick has quite a few. Quite a few interviews with a lot of people last week.

[Chris Partee]

He usually does.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah, yeah. Mike McDonald and all those guys. But. So she was scheduled to come on. He was hoping to, you know, maybe ask him some. Ask her some stuff about, you know, all the current controversy with Kate and Clark and everything else. But Dan Patrick's not, like, he's not a jerk to his guests ever. No, he's tough, but fair. Yeah, right. And not even all that tough. Like, he asked, like, the appropriately tough questions. She no showed him, didn't show up. They waited around for 90 minutes after the show was over, after she had already agreed to do the interview, and she just flat out, no Showed him. So here's Dan Patrick and how he felt about it.

[Guest or Interviewee]

But don't say yes. And then all of a sudden, somebody probably said, in my opinion, oh, maybe we shouldn't do this. Well, at some point, you have to do this. I mean, if you want to be treated as a serious league, then do these. This is what happens. These are tough questions, but this is a fair, fair outlet for you, a fair platform. I will treat you with respect. But when you tell me. And then two hours later with no update, and then we get a, you know, a feeble response like, come on, you don't want to do it. You won't. The commissioner of the NFL does not want to come on this show. I've been doing this for 20 years. There's a reason why he doesn't want to come on. I have no problem if he doesn't want to come on. But if he said to me, hey, I'll come on tomorrow. And then all of a sudden, he says, the NFL PR department said I shouldn't do it, like, and she's 50 yards away. She's hitting practice shots out of the bunker. So that's what's disappointing. We deserve more respect than what she gave us yesterday.

[Reality Gays Hosts]

Wow.

[Ben Gary]

Wow, that's a. That's a heavy Kathy Engelbert. I thought so. Hey, you know what? We talked early in the show about the whole do you know who I am? Dynamic.

[Chris Partee]

Yes.

[Ben Gary]

You got to be really careful pulling out the do you know who I am? Is Dan Patrick pulling a little bit of a do you know who I am here? Like. Like, he's almost, like, doing that and saying, like, huh?

[Guest or Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Ben Gary]

Even the commissioner. I'm so big that the commissioner is afraid. The NFL commissioner is afraid to come on here. I don't know. I. I don't know. I feel like I'm almost feeling a little bit petty towards Dan Patrick on this one.

[Chris Partee]

I love me some Dan Patrick, but he may have tooted his own horn a little bit there, but he may have pulled the do you know who I am? Car without actually saying, do you know who I am?

[Ben Gary]

I'll say this. I don't know. Whenever we have a guest, no show. And like, in Sean and I don't. We don't have on a lot of guests. We're just. Our egos are too large. We just like to talk to each other, but we do it, like. And every now and then, we kind of, you know, we'll do one. This really isn't a do you know who I am? Moment or Anything. But, like, we had somebody who was supposed to be. It was for one of the streaming services when they were doing a game, we were supposed to have their sideline reporter on, and they just no showed us. And it pisses you off because, like, all of you know what it does. It really screws up your flow. It's like you gotta, like, you gotta rejigger everything and try to figure out what you're gonna talk about here. You're kind of waiting for. To see if Ben says, oh, we've got the person on. So you get agitated. No matter who it is that's standing you up, it's like somebody. It's like somebody doesn't show up to you. If you're the manager at a McDonald's and somebody doesn't show up, it screws up your whole morning. So, Kathy Engelbert, what are you doing? And also.

[Guest or Interviewee]

Yes.

[Ben Gary]

Why is the NBA so dead set on being relevant for all the wrong reasons? Like why, why. Why can you not just do the normal thing? And, like, I'll say, like, oh, okay, I'll go on. Dan Patrick, he has a lot. Oh, yeah. Mike McDonald is going to be a Super bowl champion. The head coach is going to be on with Dan Patrick. This is Mike McDonald, who's on the Dan Patrick show out at Lake Tahoe at that golf tournament where Engelbert no show. Dan Patrick. This is the thing that's got Bostonians super petty right now and super speculative. This is Mike McDonald talking about getting help from an unnamed source in preparation for the Super Bowl.

[Guest or Interviewee]

Who did you seek advice from going into the super bowl that might surprise me. Well, when I was surprised, I called John Harbaugh and I talked about.

[Reality Gays Hosts]

He was great.

[Guest or Interviewee]

Probably can't mention one guy that really. That really helped us out that had some conflict of interest. Can we guess? Sure. I don't know if I'm gonna tell you, but go ahead. Bill Belichick. I'm not that cool. Oh, yeah, no, he wouldn't. You wouldn't have a phone. I've had a beer with Coach Belichick, and that was. That was a pretty cool. That was a pretty cool day. Who else would we guess? Kyle Shanahan.

[Reality Gays Hosts]

No.

[Guest or Interviewee]

No.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah. So, like, Dave Portnoy is probably the most notable Patriots fan who weighed in on this, and this is what he said about that exchange. If this doesn't piss you off as a Patriots fan, you are dead on the inside. I'm not going to say who they are saying. Gave a ton of advice to the Seahawks before The Super Bowl. But the guy has a statue in front of our ste. What a joke.

[Chris Partee]

Wow.

[Ben Gary]

Strongly implying that it's one Thomas Brady that was given Mike McDonald information. Remember? Well, people are already hot and bothered about Tom because before the Super Bowl, Brady had said that he doesn't have a dog in the fight. As his former team. As his former team and a couple of his former teammates and coaches, you know, and Mike vrabel and Josh McDaniels as well as others are on that team saying he doesn't have a dog in a fight. It felt like a betrayal. And now there are a lot of Patriots fans who are dead set and convinced that it was Tom Brady who smoked, spoke to Mike McDonald.

[Chris Partee]

But I mean, isn't Tom Brady the owner of the Raiders now or part owner?

[Ben Gary]

Conflict of interest for him more so from that standpoint, I kind of understand. Yeah, he's already. He's already a part owner of another NFL franchise. I feel like if you're a Patriots fan who hasn't gotten the notes on this, he's not a huge fan of the Patriots anymore.

[Chris Partee]

Not anymore.

[Guest or Interviewee]

It.

[Ben Gary]

Does it have to be. But does it have to be rubbed in your nose like, you can't have him have a little bit of success? I think that's. I guess what I. You know what? Because as a. As an. As a Raiders owner, what he should have been doing if he had no allegiance to the Patriots whatsoever. You want the Patriots to have a worst draft pick as possible because they're in the afc.

[Chris Partee]

Yeah.

[Ben Gary]

So he should have helped out the Patriots and tried to help them win the super bowl because then they'd have the 32nd pick in the draft instead of the 31st. I suppose. I haven't looked at the Patriots. Traffic, whatever. So Zach Gelb, who works for our company or CBS Sports. Right. Zach Gelb says this. Tell me if this does it for you or not. Zach Gelb says, I reached out to Mike McDonald to get clarification on his comments on the Dan Patrick show. I asked if Tom Brady was the person with the conflict of interest that gave input to the Seahawks before the Super Bowl. Mike told me it wasn't Brady that he was talking about in the interview. So Zach Elf takes this as evidence that it definitely wasn't Tom Brady. I. I take. I take that with zero credibility or evidence. Like, what's. Why are we doing this thing? No, we're gonna play the game where you just. He's gonna say no to every single person. He already said it was a conflict of interest. For this person.

[Chris Partee]

Exactly.

[Ben Gary]

Every denial that he issues afterwards is bogus. He just said, like, I don't want to divulge this guy because he's a conflict of interest. That. So people think that all of a sudden, as long as they guess the right name, Mike McDonald's is like, oh, yeah, I'll screw that guy over right now. Yep, that's exactly who that was.

[Chris Partee]

Yeah. I'm not buying it. I believe, like you said, it was probably Brady, but now do you think Brady's response was him being a little petty himself, saying he didn't have a dog in the fight. Was that a little petty?

[Ben Gary]

Well, that was. Yeah. And that was before any of this.

[Dana White]

Yeah.

[Chris Partee]

Yeah.

[Ben Gary]

I don't know. I think he was trying too hard to be impartial for multiple reasons. One, because he's a broadcaster and two, because he's part owner of the Raiders. And I don't know. I don't. I don't know who it would be. I don't know if it's Tom Brady or not. Like, there's a. You play the whole six degrees of separation with NFL people and everybody knows everybody. So I think. I think it was probably more likely somebody that's either in the NFC west or something like that, that it was maybe somebody he's buddies with, but that also just, you know, like, it's. It would raise eyebrows for people outside the NFL, but it's probably no big deal for him to have a conversation with this guy inside the NFL.

[Chris Partee]

Before we hit the break, real quick, let me ask you this. Did you. And you don't have to name names if you don't want to. Did you play with anyone that was just super petty? Could have been a player, a coach that was just super over the top petty?

[Ben Gary]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a teammate that was. He was a classic. I. I've told this story before with, like, Brandon Iuk, where there's a. There's a. It's tough having some guys. There's some guys that are divas, but they act about it a certain way and it's not that big of a deal. There's other guys who are. Who are divas and petty. And it gets to the point where it's like people in his position group are just hoping the coach doesn't. Like. Like, if I were a player in that position group, I'm like, just. Just don't show my good play from this last weekend. Please don't. It's going to be a whole thing. Like, it's going to be A whole thing about how this other guy is just going to feel like I'm getting preferential treatment and everything. You get to the point where you don't even have fun playing well because you know that every time you do something good, the other guy is going to be like, well, yeah, yeah. Like. And those guys are. They're way more cancerous than a guy that, you know, I don't know, got. Got busted with some kind of an addiction on the outside world or something. Like, it's bad football character.

[Chris Partee]

Yeah.

[Ben Gary]

There's plenty of guys who are not good citizens in the real world who are awesome football dudes. Yeah. But then there's also. There's a lot of guys who are boy scouts on the outside, but who are just horrible.

[Guest or Interviewee]

Horrible.

[Chris Partee]

Football can play a lick.

[Reality Gays Hosts]

Yeah.

[Ben Gary]

And the jealousy over your teammate's success is the worst. That's. It just. It drains all the energy from everything.

[Chris Partee]

Oh, my goodness.

[Ben Gary]

And those are the guys also, that even when they're doing well, when they have a good game, they are angry because they didn't get enough praise from the coaches. You know, I'm sure it's just. It's never enough. It's never enough for those guys.

[Chris Partee]

I'm sure that was quite irritating, dealing with that. Those type of players.

[Ben Gary]

Draining. I'm sure it was like, walk into the front office and be like, hey, guys, listen, I'm just. I'm leaving at the end of the year, okay? That's. It's nothing against you guys or anything. I just don't. It's just that it's not. It's not it for me anymore, okay?

[Chris Partee]

It's not working for me.

[Ben Gary]

I'm not trying to pull like a negotiating thing here or anything. It's just not going to work.

[Chris Partee]

That's just it.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah.

[Chris Partee]

All right, let's take a break here. On the other side, where do NFL coaches and executives rank CJ Stroud among the best and worst in the league? Sports radio.

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[Reality Gays Hosts]

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[Ben Gary]

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[Chris Partee]

Along with me, Chris Partee in first, Sean Pendergast this morning. And we've got our amazing producer Ben Gary keeping me on track this morning. Appreciate you, my man.

[Ben Gary]

All right, Good job, Ben.

[Chris Partee]

Yeah, Ben, Ben. Ben's keeping me on track here. So where do NFL coaches and executives rank CJ Stroud among the best and worst in the league? Yes, we've got another list for you here, Seth.

[Ben Gary]

This is, this one, this one's intriguing, though, because I like this one. I like this one more than the NFL top 100 because like players ranking other players where they list their top 20 players and then somehow that gets turned into a 100 person list that feels a little bit dicier. The ESPN one that Jeremy Fowler does every year is a specific group of executive executives, coaches and scouts who rank the top quarterbacks. And they rank each of the, the top position groups. But it feels a little bit more substantive and you get some anonymous quotes. But they have, they have 70 voters who submit these ballots.

[Chris Partee]

Oh, wow. Yeah, that's a, that's a lot of people voting there.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah. And it's more specified, you know, like it's, I like that when the NFL players vote, they're voting on anybody and everybody. So it's like there's no, there's no restrictions on, you know, number of this position or like that. So I, I like it when they rank it more on just. Okay, there's only so many starting quarterbacks. It gives you a better, exactly. A better picture of how they feel about Things.

[Chris Partee]

All right, so this is. This is a top 10 here. And I don't think anyone expects CJ Stroud to be in this top 10, but it feels like he's finishing so far away from even a mention of top 10.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah.

[Chris Partee]

On this list.

[Ben Gary]

No, no. And Jeremy Fowler, like, he laid out how the voting went, and basically it just puts. It puts Stroud at the very bottom of. Is it 18, guys? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20. So, yeah, shroud was basically. Or like, he puts him in the last. The last group. It's Bo Nicks and Mac Jones and C.J. stroud in the last list. So Mac Jones, the way you listen them out, it looks like Mac Jones actually finished a little bit higher, but at the very least, you can say he's in the group of 18, 19, and 20, which would mean that he is. By this. By this standard, he's a below average NFL starting quarterback.

[Chris Partee]

That's exactly what it sounds like. Now, should we go through this top 10 here and kind of kind of reel off?

[Ben Gary]

Yeah, yeah. It was an interesting one. And. Okay, so what do you want to do? You want to do, like. Okay, yeah, CJ's, definitely. But you. You definitely can't rank CJ above this guy yet.

[Chris Partee]

Yeah, let's do it that way.

[Ben Gary]

No, you want to do it?

[Chris Partee]

Yeah, let's do it that way. All right, so I'm gonna. And I'm gonna go in reverse order, so ten down to one. Okay, I'm gonna go that way. So number ten is Caleb Williams.

[Ben Gary]

I don't feel about that. How you feel about that based on trajectory and the. You know, the biggest thing I'd say about Caleb Williams is that he. He got better as the season went along last year.

[Chris Partee]

He did.

[Ben Gary]

But if anything, I think, man, if. If. If your argument in support of CJ is that he hasn't had the same coordinator or the same support around him as some other guys have had. Like, they gave Caleb Williams everything that you would want CJ to have, which was, man, experienced offensive head coach slash coordinator that really, like Ben Johnson really knows what he's doing. And they stocked. They stocked the offensive line aggressively last year, and then lo and behold, you see a better version of Caleb Williams. But I would probably put him. I Like, this feels like a little bit of recency bias with him. He's still, like, he's way more erratic than CJ is. And, yeah, I wouldn't put him above CJ on this, but I think that more like. But I also don't think CJ belongs in the top 10 right now.

[Chris Partee]

Yeah.

[Ben Gary]

So I think that it's, it's, it's. It's a little premature to put Caleb Williams in the top 10.

[Chris Partee]

Number nine, Jared Goff, Detroit Lions.

[Ben Gary]

Oh, boy. Yeah. Just based on, based on body of work and consistency, I think the ceiling for CJ is still higher, theoretically for then, then Jared Goff. But I'm, I'm totally cool with him being above CJ right now.

[Chris Partee]

Now, is that because CJ's still so young that the season ceiling is higher

[Ben Gary]

or still so young? But he's also like, yeah, Jared Goff is just accomplished more. You know, he' steadily had better regular seasons than CJ's head.

[Chris Partee]

I got you. Number eight, Drake May, Patriots.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah, it's hard to argue against this one. Except that Drake May. Drake May, in a weird way, like I keep reminding myself, he's not a rookie quarterback, but it was the first year where he felt like an actual NFL quarterback. But again, going back to. All right, okay, they, they gave him an offensive coordinator who's worked with multiple young quarterbacks. And the thing about Drake May is, and despite the playoff performance and despite the fact that they, they faced an absurdly easy schedule last year, it was one of the. By dvoa, it was one of the easiest schedules of all time in the NFL. Like, I can't argue against the, the actual production. So if you're stacking up apples to apples and like, let's not think too hard about what this guy had versus what this guy did. Drake maybe still had. He had issues with his offensive line. His tackles were just an absolute. His left tackle is an absolute disgrace late in the year and in the playoffs, like, K's on Booty, all of a sudden we're going to act like K's on Booty was the guy like anybody was talking about K's on Booty like he was going to have the year that he did that. You know, CJ already had a crack at having Stefan Diggs on his team and didn't do as much with him. So, yeah, I'm cool with Drake May being above him right now.

[Chris Partee]

Number seven.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah, your boy.

[Chris Partee]

That's your boy right here.

[Ben Gary]

Justin Herbert. Yeah, yeah, Justin. Or okay, if you look at Justin Herbert, seventh. But then if you look at guys, I think like the guy that didn't make the top 10, the two guys that really like, scratch your head a little bit, I think are, especially compared to Justin Herbert, is Brock Purdy and Jordan love compared to Justin Herbert. I don't know. I, like, I, I feel like Justin Herbert, Justin Herbert's in a weird space in my brain where I want to defend him sometimes, but not too much. Like, I feel like Justin Herbert gets underrated at times because the last couple of years he's been playing in offense where they almost try to limit him.

[Chris Partee]

Yeah.

[Ben Gary]

And it feels like they're protecting Justin Herbert from himself. But I also don't want to say that he's trash or anything, but I also don't, I don't think he's as, as awesome as so many people seem to be convinced that he is. And he just like cj like he's never done anything good in the playoffs where at least CJ Strouds had some good moments in the playoffs. But like again, I'll go back to based on the sum total of what he's done in the NFL and like the, his, his bad years all weighed in there too. Yeah. He's just accomplished more than CJ has to this point.

[Chris Partee]

Yes, you can say that he has accomplish more than CJ and but those playoff performances, man, they're hard to forget.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah.

[Chris Partee]

They're hard to unsee.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah.

[Chris Partee]

When it comes to Herb. All right, number six up north, Dak Prescott.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah. Like, yeah, I can't argue against this one. I mean we can say whatever we want about the Cowboys in the playoffs and everything else. Like, yeah, Dak Prescott just consistently churns out impressive performances.

[Chris Partee]

He does.

[Ben Gary]

He said Dahlia, like he's had down years. But of course, no but like based on the way he played last year, now he's also got the benefit having two stud, stud, stud wide receiver. Yeah, he does that. C.J. doesn't have. But I'm like, I'm not like these things Shift and change CJ after his rookie year going into 2024, CJ was seventh on this list. Yeah. So it's not like he can't rise back up on it. It's not like a permanent, it's not a permanent appraisal of who they are as a quarterback.

[Chris Partee]

No, definitely not. Number five, Lamar Jackson.

[Ben Gary]

Lamar Jackson is the fifth best quarterback on this list. Yeah.

[Guest or Interviewee]

Like, yeah.

[Ben Gary]

There's no way in hell I'm putting him putting CJ above Lamar Jackson. And I like people can bring up playoff record all they want. That's great. That's cool. But no, he's a two time MVP.

[Chris Partee]

Come on.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah, he's a two time MVP dot arguably could have been the three time MVP pretty easily. And yeah, like he's just. No, he's just accomplished so much. I think the big question with Lamar Jackson moving forward is, you know, last year he had. At any given time he was dealing with one of four different injuries. And the thing with him is it's like it's not the running ability that makes him special anymore. I mean it's still a big part of his game. But his pocket mobility, like his, his strength and ability in the pocket, his pocket movement is really, really good. And I think that's what affected him more than anything last year was it's, it's some of those. It's not the scrambles, it's not the running undesigned runs or anything that, that make for a lot of his really great throws. It's when he's able to reposition himself in the pocket, like shake off a tackle. Like he's ridiculously strong when he's healthy. So a lot of his best throws come after he evades a sack just simply by breaking a tackle and stepping up two feet and then making the throw. That's what I think. Fell by the wayside a little bit last year, but as long as he's healthy. Yeah, the 100%. Lamar Jackson's fine.

[Chris Partee]

Number four, Joe Burrow.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah, Joe Burrow is starting to get a little tiresome for a guy really. Well, no, no, no.

[Dana White]

For.

[Ben Gary]

Just for I, you know what it is? It's the Bengals. I'm tired of the, like I'm tired of the Bengals not even making the playoffs.

[Chris Partee]

That's true.

[Ben Gary]

And then with such a good quarterback. Yeah. Yet at the same time you watch him and you see what he's doing and like clearly and obviously he's an awesome quarterback. I think the one thing that's going to be interesting this year is that they're going to.

[Guest or Interviewee]

There.

[Ben Gary]

It's been kind of a multi year process of teaching him to be more of like a, for lack of a better term, a system quarterback. You know, be able to lean on the run game, be able to lean on your tight ends, do some things like do some of the more boring stuff instead of relying on heroic stuff for, for J. For Joe Burrow. Because there are times where like they've like it hasn't been great in the fourth quarter and there's only so much that QB heroics can do consistently without having an actual well structured offense around him. So for him it's more like I feel like in some ways he's still operating like a young quarterback who's Got these ethereal, physical skills. He's got to be more of a complete quarterback if they want to have a. If they want to have an offense that can deliver in clutch moments.

[Chris Partee]

Well, didn't the Bengals go out and spend a lot of money defensively?

[Ben Gary]

Yeah, yeah, they've got. They've got six or seven brand new starters on defense.

[Chris Partee]

Yeah. So, I mean, things could turn around, you know, as long as. I always feel like as long as he's healthy, if they can get something from that defense. Yeah, no, they're going to be in the mix.

[Ben Gary]

An NFL coordinator said this about Burrow, Quote, burrow doesn't play in a system. He is the system. He's the whole thing. And I feel like that's. That's cool and all, but I don't. I don't know if that's all. If that's honestly like the ideal that you want. You know who that was a little bit like? Aaron Rodgers. You know, like Aaron. What's the system with Aaron? But at least Peyton. Peyton was running his system to perfection.

[Chris Partee]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Ben Gary]

Like where? With, like, with it. So at a certain point with Aaron Rodgers, when he was at his physical prime, like, okay, what system is Aaron Rodgers running? Well, he's kind of sort of running Mike McCarthy system, except that he's checking into a whole bunch of plays that Mike McCarthy didn't call a bunch of the time. And it was when he could pull off the circus throws and everything. It worked out. But when you don't have those same physical skills anymore, it tends not to age all that well.

[Chris Partee]

Yeah. I mean, Aaron Rodgers, he tended to do his own thing.

[Oregon Lottery Announcer]

Yeah.

[Chris Partee]

When he wanted to. All right, number three, Matt Stafford.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah. I don't know if, like the argument. Matt Stafford at this point would just have to be that at some point he's going to get old and decide to quit playing football at some point. They've done a really good job of surrounding him with good. Like, he's got. He's in a perfect situation in terms of. Okay, does he have a brilliant play caller? Yes.

[Chris Partee]

Yes.

[Ben Gary]

Does he have awesome wide receivers? Yes. Do they have a. Do they have a really good running back? Yes. And, like, there's just everything around him is perfectly suited to just get the absolute best out of them.

[Chris Partee]

All right, real quick, before we get out of here, number. Number two is Patrick Mahomes. Number one, Josh Allen. We talked about them a little earlier.

[Ben Gary]

I think, like, I would say with Patrick Mahomes at some point, I told you earlier, I think we're kind of almost. Patrick Mahomes is in a much more glorified situation, but a similar situation to CJ Stroud where like, okay, the results on the field have been a lot better for Patrick Mahomes over the last couple years. And yet he hasn't played like Peak Pac Pat Mahomes. But people have a lot of excuses for him. Like, at how, at what point does it become, oh wow, it's been a few years since Pat Mahomes has looked electrifying and looked like one of the definitely like definitively top quarterbacks in the league.

[Guest or Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Ben Gary]

Like at some point you got to just start calling things for what they are and that the results aren't nearly as impressive as some of these other guys. But like, I don't know how you detach that from the fact that he has done all those things that he's done.

[Chris Partee]

Yeah. And he definitely does continue to get the benefit of the doubt. Really.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah.

[Chris Partee]

When he hasn't played as well. All right, on the other side, we're going to get into One of the NFL's most premier quarterbacks wants to play for the USA in flag football in the 2028 Olympics when it debuts.

[Ben Gary]

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[Ben Gary]

I remember telling my boss it'll be

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good for the brand when leads were slow.

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Yeah, it wasn't.

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[Guest or Interviewee]

Hey, this is Richard Deitch, the host of the sports Media Podcast. If you're interested in what's happening with all the places where you consume sports,

[Chris Partee]

the sports media podcast has you covered.

[Ben Gary]

I've been turning down interviews all week.

[Chris Partee]

Hoda Kapi reached out. Oprah, George Stephanopoulos. So I said no.

[Ben Gary]

I was booked on the Deitch podcast before the Taylor Swift phenomenon. I must live up to my responsibility. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chris Partee]

Payne and Pendergast on the air he Seth Payne, I'm Chris Partee in for Sean Pendergast today. So in a minute we will get to this. What do we have here? We will, right, we will get to this NFL court premier NFL quarterback that wants to win gold and play flag football in 2028 when that debuts in the Olympics. But before we do that, we're going to talk about this top 10 linebacker list by ESPN and your own Aziz Al Shire is on this list.

[Ben Gary]

Ah, I expect them to be, but you just never know. You never, you never quite know for sure. Yeah. So there's guaranteed this is a big man coming from the depths of wherever Aziz was. When the entire, the entire NFL world decided that he was the villain of all villains, they turned on him. Yeah, he came back and just like in the very next season, he's turned into almost. I feel like a lot of people, I feel like a lot of people on the defensive side of the ball have just kind of like said, all right, enough is enough. We're not coddling these quarterbacks anymore. Certainly we're not going to coddle Trevor Lawrence. Aziz Elshire needs to be recognized for what he was, what he is, which is a really good linebacker who also tends to sometimes just like tippy toe up to the line when it comes to how, how violently you play the game. Which is exactly what we, isn't that what we want? Football players, if you grew up watching NFL films, documentaries and whatnot, yeah, this

[Chris Partee]

is not the Olympics. It's not flag football.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah. So sixth on this list. It goes from. It starts off with Fred Warner, then Roquan Smith, Carson Schwessinger, the young player from the Browns. Yeah, he really burst.

[Chris Partee]

That's pretty hot. Yeah, he did. He did.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah. Zach Bond from the Eagles is still up there. It's funny, like, Zach Bond got so much attention and adulation when the Eagles were a really good team. And then people kind of, they're like, oh, yeah, the defense is still doing really good stuff. Then Jack Campbell from the Lions at number five, and then Aziz Elshire at number six. Is that too low in your. I don't. You know what here. So the highest ranking he had was three. The lowest ranking he had was unranked. And I think there's a lot of that with. Honestly with the linebackers, because depending on what scheme you're playing in, I mean, if you go through the top five guys, I don't know what it's like with the other positions, but like Roquan Smith, his highest ranking was 1 lowest. He's the number two overall. Lowest ranking was unranked. So Carson Schwessinger, same thing. Zach Bond was more. Highest ranking was 3. Lowest ranking was 10. Then Jack Campbell at number 5, his lowest ranking was unranked. And Aziz Elshire, same thing. Like somebody ranked him number three overall. Somebody else had him just completely unranked.

[Guest or Interviewee]

Last year.

[Ben Gary]

He was unranked completely. So he's. He's ascended pretty damn rapidly up to number six overall.

[Chris Partee]

Yeah, I mean, you mentioned a scheme there. And you know, whatever scheme a linebacker might play in that, you know, they may have.

[Ben Gary]

It.

[Chris Partee]

Have. Have a different role in a certain scheme is. Was there a certain. Was there a specific scheme that you preferred when you played three, four?

[Ben Gary]

Well, I mean, you know what. And to speak to the scheme part, one of the quotes in here by an NFL coordinator was he. He's specialized by scheme a bit, but he's explosive and good in coverage. I just like, I always like the scheme that fits the personnel. If that's. I don't know if I'm punting on that or not, but yeah, I don't like. It's like I played in a lot of defenses that were just more conventional. 4, 3. Classic defenses. My rookie year in my first five years. But we weren't like an attack style 4, 3. The way the Texans defense is. I think the. When somebody says he's specialized by scheme a bit, that rubs me the wrong way. Because this scheme that d' Amico plays puts a lot of pressure on your linebackers, if you think about. So they play with a wide nine defensive end, which means everything's getting funneled to the inside. That's cool in that it makes it. Theoretically, it makes it easier for the linebackers to have all the runs funneled to the inside.

[Chris Partee]

Okay.

[Ben Gary]

The trick is, though, that it makes it a lot tougher on linebackers where when it comes to play action, like, you got to be. You're dialed in and you are responsible for stopping the inside run, but at the same time, you got to get to your coverage responsibilities. So where Aziz really excels is, is. Is having the football IQ to really understand his pre snap reads and his pre snap tendencies into diagnose play action to where they can be stout against the run, but he can also get back into coverage super fast. So it's his football IQ that really like, there's a lot of guys that might be physically talented that would have a hard time doing what Aziz does. I almost feel like. I almost feel like somebody is looking at it, like in saying that is thinking like, well, yeah, I guess, you know, Fred Warner and Dre Greenlaw looked really good in that scheme too. Right? Because you can only run that scheme if you've got really good linebackers. Like, it's just kind of a. The scheme doesn't work. And the scheme didn't look as good before they got Aziz Elshire. But I think that what people probably look at it is they don't look at him as being. They don't look at him as a guy who's awesome in coverage, but the fact of the matter is he gets the job done in coverage and they ask him to do some pretty tough things. So that's my, my long winded answer to your question. What scheme do you prefer? I prefer the schemes where guys are well suited to do what they're asked to do. And I think d' Ameco's done a great job of getting a bunch of those guys out there. Like, over the course of the last three years, it's just steadily been more and more like, all right, these guys are just built to play this style of football. The, the other quote that I liked was he's the Dennis Rodman of linebacker.

[Chris Partee]

I'm looking at that right now.

[Ben Gary]

He gets in everyone's head. He can run all day and he can play every down. I don't backhanded compliment.

[Chris Partee]

That's a hell of a quote right there. He's the Dennis Rodman of linebackers.

[Ben Gary]

I feel like that's a backhanded compliment.

[Chris Partee]

I don't even know how you take

[Ben Gary]

that because it's not. How do you take that?

[Chris Partee]

I'm the Dennis Rodman of linebackers.

[Ben Gary]

I didn't even say seems to be a family guy. Like, he doesn't. He seems to be pretty. He seems to be off the field a lot different than Dennis Rodman. I think that if I think about. Okay, if. If somebody's the Dennis Rodman of anything, I would feel for one, it's almost got to be like, okay, it's not a three down player. It's somebody that specializes in one thing and does a really good job at it. So like if you're, if you're just a guy that's a pass rush specialist that comes in on third downs, or if you're a run stuffer on the defensive line, like, I feel like that's more of a. Or if you're a two down linebacker, if you're a guy that's just out there and you can stuff the. Run like a mother and do all these other things, I feel like that's. Then you might say he's the Dennis Rodman. But the fact that Aziz Elshire is a three down linebacker. Yeah, I feel like the, I feel like the Dennis Rodman part's a little unfair.

[Chris Partee]

Who would be the Dennis Rodman of the NFL right now? Like not just linebacker, any position. Who would be the nf. The Dennis Rodman equivalent, I guess.

[Ben Gary]

Like, who's the best short yardage back in the NFL? That's something like that.

[Chris Partee]

Yeah.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah. That's a good question for the Texans. Who is the. No, and include the off field stuff. Off of it. Who's the guy that lives kind of a wild lifestyle off the field, but comes in and just gives you one. A couple of really, really good things? Like in a. In terms of specializing in something.

[Chris Partee]

Could it be Stefan Diggs?

[Ben Gary]

He's the, he's the.

[Chris Partee]

He's.

[Ben Gary]

Not that he's the best number two wide receiver.

[Chris Partee]

Okay. That's right.

[Ben Gary]

I'm sorry, that's what he's calling himself.

[Chris Partee]

I forgot about that. He's the best.

[Guest or Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah. For those of you guys didn't hear it, Stefan Diggs did something brilliant in terms of marketing and which is. Leaned into not trying to act like the diva that says he's the best receiver in the NFL. He says I'm the best number two receiver in the NFL, which I don't think he's accurate on that, but he's he's not that far off. And I think that's a good way for. You can kind of plant a seed in a lot of GMs minds where they're like, you know what? Dick's got a point. Like, all right. As long as he doesn't think he's going to come in and, you know, be the number one guy for the Buffalo Bills back in the day or something. And it sounds like he's cool with that.

[Guest or Interviewee]

That.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah, he really does fit that role for us right now.

[Chris Partee]

So the rest of this linebacker list, real quick also, Aziz, Al shire was number six. Number seven was Jordan Brooks from the Miami Dolphins. Number eight, Nick Bolton, Kansas City Chiefs. Number nine, Edrin Cooper, Green Bay Packers. Number 10, Devin Lloyd, Carolina Panthers.

[Ben Gary]

The one guy that was on here that I found interesting who received votes but didn't make the honorable mention. So he's not in the top 14 as Bobby Wagner at the age of 73 is still out there. It feels like it as a, as a free agent right now. And I don't think the Texans are going to go after Bobby Wagner, but I've always, like, he's another one that I'm always going to be perpetually intrigued by. Just because, man. All right, okay. You got a veteran. If you, if there's an injury during training camp or something, I could, I could, I could totally see having Bobby Wagner on the squad.

[Chris Partee]

And does it also help that he's a good locker room guy? I've always heard.

[Guest or Interviewee]

Right. Yeah.

[Ben Gary]

No, especially, you know, and it's, they, you know, going back to some of the football IQ type of stuff that I think Aziz is really good at and excels at. I think Bobby Wagner, you could probably make that case that for, for his, his, his tutelage ability, like his ability to tutor some of the younger guys would probably be really valuable. He might be like, I bet d' Amico would just love, you know, comparing notes with him, having conversation with Bobby Wagner about certain things, game plan wise and all that.

[Chris Partee]

Yeah, I'm sure they'd probably go back and forth for hours.

[Ben Gary]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Partee]

Hours in it. All right, let's hit the break here. Getting to the top of the hour. All right, next up, we're going to talk about it. One of the NFL's premier quarterbacks wants to play for Team USA in flag football's Olympic debut in 2028. Sports Radio 610 listeners, I want to

[Ben Gary]

tell you about a new podcast from Odyssey called Family Lore, where people tell

[Chris Partee]

interesting stories about their family history. And then we investigate the truth behind them. Family Lore is available now on Apple

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Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your shows.

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Ben Gary]

I remember telling my boss it'll be

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[Guest or Interviewee]

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[Ben Gary]

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