How big an issue is linebacker depth, especially after EJ Speed?

Summary

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Payne & Pendergast - Episode Summary

Episode Title: How big an issue is linebacker depth, especially after EJ Speed?
Release Date: July 21, 2026
Main Theme:
A deep dive into the Houston Texans’ linebacker situation as training camp approaches, with particular focus on the ramifications of EJ Speed’s season-ending injury. Hosts Seth Payne and Sean Pendergast analyze the impact on roster depth, identify key candidates to step up, and discuss what fans should expect as position battles heat up.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Astros Trade Rumors and Listener Feedback

[01:21–04:06]

• Trade talk around Jeremy Peña:
  The show opens with speculation about potential returns if the Astros were to trade shortstop Jeremy Peña. Seth and Sean acknowledge their own limited knowledge of minor league prospects and reference opinions from trustworthy analysts, noting Peña would likely command significant young talent, especially due to his contract status with one more arbitration year.
  • “If you’re getting a couple of guys that you feel like can contribute to the Astros in a couple of years for Peña, that’s good.” — Sean Pendergast [01:50]
• Listener blames hosts for Astros’ performance:
  The hosts read a tongue-in-cheek message from a texter blaming them for “resetting” the Astros season prematurely and supposedly angering the baseball gods.
  • Seth retorts that barely scraping into mediocrity after slow starts isn’t a triumph:
    • “You can’t credit the same manager and GM and baseball team who got off to the extremely slow start for getting themselves back up to mediocre.” — Seth Payne [03:45]

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Texans Linebacker Depth after EJ Speed Injury

[04:14–11:36]

1. EJ Speed’s Departure: Context and Impact

• Role and Significance:
  EJ Speed played approximately 45% of the Texans’ defensive snaps last season. His versatility, especially when the backfield was thin, made him valuable (“big deal,” per Seth [04:49]).
  • Seth underscores how Speed’s absence makes the linebacker depth chart a pressing concern going into camp.

2. Who Steps Up? Candidates Analyzed

• Marte Mapu:

  • Former Patriots hybrid player, noted for versatility and experience at safety.
  • “[Mapu] might be a better fit for the Texans... He’s played safety before.” — Seth Payne [05:47]
  • Could fill a similar role to Speed, potentially improving pass coverage (“a lot of physical upside”).

• Wade Woodaz:

  • 5th round pick, “flashed” in minicamp and OTAs as a player who immediately stands out (physically impressive, tall and long with former safety experience).
  • “You watch out there like, ‘Oh, okay, that's somebody right there.’” — Sean Pendergast [08:47]
  • Might need time to get up to speed (new to the position) but expected to contribute immediately on special teams.

• Aiden Fisher:

  • 7th round pick and leader of a national championship defense; not highly regarded in terms of athletic “measurables,” but praised for instincts and football IQ.
  • D’Amico Ryans “gushed about Aiden Fisher” in OTAs—rare for a head coach to praise a late pick so enthusiastically [10:09].
  • “He’s exactly the kind of guy... I really trust [D’Amico Ryans’] ability to see the guys who have really good recognition, when to pull the trigger...” — Seth Payne [10:17]

3. Henry To’oTo’o’s Status

• Contract and Role:
  To’oTo’o (2023 rookie) entering a potential contract year; competition at the position is fiercer than expected.
  • "Better chance of To’oTo’o getting an extension, or losing his starting job to one of these camp guys?" — Sean Pendergast [07:39]
  • Seth predicts an extension is more likely, but calls it “a moderate extension.” Financial discipline is needed given overall defensive cap commitments.

4. Development Track Record & Coaching Trust

• The hosts express strong trust in D’Amico Ryans and LB coach Billy Davis, pointing out their history of maximizing linebacker talent (e.g., success stories with under-scouted players like Aziz Al-Shaair).
  • “If the Texans are drafting linebackers and defensive linemen, I’m going to buy on those guys.” — Sean Pendergast [10:37]

5. Position Prognosis

• While unproven, the group’s athletic upside is high and at least one of these younger, new additions is likely to emerge.
• “I’d have a hard time believing that at least one of those guys doesn’t rise to the occasion.” — Seth Payne [11:17]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On fan expectations and team reality:
  • “They turned into a mediocre baseball team or slightly above mediocre. That’s not... any kind of a triumph I want to be a part of.” — Seth Payne [03:45]
• On Marte Mapu’s opportunity:
  • “He might be a better fit for the Texans. He can play safety... if he fits the scheme well, I think might be better in pass coverage.” — Seth Payne [05:47]
• On Wade Woodaz:
  • “You watch out there like, ‘Oh, okay, that’s somebody right there.’ He flashed a little bit; he’s impressive physically.” — Sean Pendergast [08:47]
• On D'Amico Ryans' eye for linebackers:
  • “If D’Amico Ryans is... involved drafting linebackers... historically we've seen them excel in a D’Amico Ryans-coached defense.” — Sean Pendergast [10:37]
• On Aiden Fisher's intangibles:
  • “He’s exactly the kind of guy... I really trust D’Amico’s ability to see the guys who have really good recognition, when to pull the trigger.” — Seth Payne [10:17]
• Outlook on LB depth:
  • “I don’t feel awesome about just the proven ability of those guys, but... between just those three guys... I’d have a hard time believing that at least one... doesn’t rise to the occasion.” — Seth Payne [11:17]

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Important Timestamps

• [01:21–04:06]: Astros trade talk & listener banter
• [04:14–04:49]: Transition to Texans camp linebacker question
• [04:49–05:47]: EJ Speed’s injury, Mapu analysis
• [05:47–06:11]: Mapu’s role and upside
• [07:26–07:51]: To’oTo’o’s future & camp competition
• [08:29–09:05]: Woodaz’s camp flashes, physical attributes
• [09:59–10:17]: D’Amico Ryans praises Aiden Fisher
• [10:37–11:17]: Trust in Texans to develop LB talent
• [11:17–11:36]: Final outlook on LB depth

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, direct, and unfiltered, with typical Houston sports radio banter.
• Honest about strengths and weaknesses, both for the Texans’ linebacking corps and Astros management.
• Heavy focus on practical football analysis tempered by fan expectations—“real talk” for engaged Houston sports listeners.

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For Listeners:

Takeaway: While the Texans are facing a real challenge in replacing EJ Speed, there’s cautious optimism rooted in dynamic young talent and a coaching staff with a track record of finding and developing under-the-radar contributors. Expect lively battles through camp, with at least one new linebacker expected to emerge as a legit contributor this season.

Transcript

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[Host 2]

Theo610 presents live from the West Point Lincoln and West Point Lincoln of Sugarland Studios.

[Host 3]

Here's Payne and Pendergast. All right, couple questions on the text page and we get to the question of the day for the Texans. We what prospects will we get for Pena? Let's say if they traded him with the Red Sox? I'm not going to bury the audience at 6:30 in the morning underneath a bunch of names they don't know. Mostly because I don't know the names either. Like, I'm not. I don't follow minor league baseball outside of the Astros in a manner where I would be doing anything but faking how awesome all these players are.

[Host 2]

Well, no, no, no. Even the people who are dialed in all this stuff, it's just there's so many, there's so many.

[Host 3]

I, the, the, the thing I've seen from people whose opinion I respect, like proposed trades for Pena, whether it's the Yankees, the Ash or the Red Sox or whoever is significant, at least one or two guys are significantly high up the food chain of those respective teams. You know, if you're getting a couple of guys that you feel like can. Can contribute to the Astros in a couple of years for Pena, that's good. The one big benefit a team gets with Pena, especially A team like the Red Sox or the Yankees that are willing to pay high salaries for guys. Red Sox. Not as much as the Yankees, but they're. You know, they're. They're.

[Ad Voice]

They're.

[Host 3]

They're not poors. They're haves. They're not have nots. They. They'll get Jeremy Pena for one more year of arbitration next year also, so they. They'll. If you trade for Jeremy Pena at the trade deadline, you're getting him for a year and a half. Yeah, it's like when the red side. Or when the Astros made the Verlander trade back. The first Verlander trade back in 2017. You were getting it for two more years after that. That was a big selling point to that deal. There's a. There's also a text. They're blaming us.

[Host 2]

Oh, no.

[Host 3]

For resetting the season. That. That. This is. This is our. This is a pain and Pendergast issue.

[Host 2]

The way the Astros are playing us.

[Host 3]

No, no, no. It says this. It says the. The. The last two years after terrible starts. The Astros straightened things out by the All Star break. Yeah, this year started the same way. But you two decided to reset the season on May 15, and look what happened. Yeah, that's karma. Don't mess with the baseball gods.

[Host 2]

Hello.

[Host 3]

They're 31 and 26 since we reset, they're better. Since we reset the season, they're better for being playing baseball in the town that we do our show.

[Host 2]

I think he's saying you guys yourselves should recognize and realize that they've turned

[Host 3]

it around a little bit, blaming us.

[Host 2]

Well, this is the problem, though. Okay, great. They got off to horrible starts the last two seasons. They didn't make the playoffs last year, so, like. And then they had a miserable showing two years ago. Like, what exactly is the great triumph there?

[Host 3]

Like?

[Host 2]

Oh, they came back and they turned into a mediocre baseball team or slightly above mediocre. That's not. You can't credit. You can't credit the same manager and GM and baseball team who got off to the extremely slow start for getting themselves back up to mediocre.

[Host 3]

You are what you are.

[Host 2]

Any kind of a triumph I want to be a part of. Yeah.

[Host 3]

Yep. All right, so ten days.

[Host 2]

Well, honey, I cheated on you three times, but here I am. I've been faithful for six months.

[Host 3]

I'm back.

[Host 2]

Why don't you trust me?

[Host 3]

I'm back, baby. Ten days until Texans training camp. It was actually a few days ago. It was 10 days. But this is just the theme We've been counting it down. We're at question number seven. If you want to go back and listen to the previous three questions, you can do it on the Pain and Pender Gas podcast on the Odyssey app. We're doing it this segment each day leading up to next Wednesday. A week from tomorrow is the first day we will be out there in the heat. Texans training camp. I can't wait. Question today, Seth. How big an issue is linebacker depth with this team? Especially considering that E.J. speed is out for the season.

[Host 2]

Yeah. And E.J. speed played 45% or so snaps last year of the defensive snaps he was a big deal. Especially when Jalen Petrie went down. They started leaning into playing three linebackers more. It's a big deal. I feel. I feel pretty confident for a couple reasons in Marte Mapu and Wade Wood as so Wade Wood as a fifth round pick. Marte Mapu was a guy who in New England, remember was there through two different head coaches and I don't think was a great scheme fit perhaps for. For, for Mike Vrabel and they trade him for late round picks. It wasn't much like one of those pick swap. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

But I think he might be a better fit for the Texans. He can play safety like you talk about. Okay. When Jalen Petra goes down last year and they just want to put their best football players on the field, they put in EJ Speed a lot more. He's not great in pass coverage. Marte Mapu, if, if he fits the scheme well, I think might be better in pass coverage. He's played safety before.

[Ad Voice]

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[Host 2]

So I like how they might use him kind of in the same way that they used DJ Speed last year. Wow. Guys got a lot of physical upside. Hasn't really. Hasn't really become maybe the best version of himself. You know, in Indianapolis. He came here and they were really happy with him. They gave him an extension. Marte Mapu might be that guy, but it's. It's going to be very, very competitive.

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[Host 2]

And I think like remember Henry Towa Toa is going into his free agency year. As of right now they haven't extended him. I think, I think he's in a perhaps more competitive situation than people might think.

[Host 3]

What's better chance of Henry Toa Toa getting an extension before the season or Henry Toa Toa's job getting taken by any of the guys in camp right now? Oh, when I say job like he's going to be on the team as a starter.

[Host 2]

No, that's a really good question. I don't think that would be something that would happen during camp. It might be an in season thing. So there's more of a chance that he gets an extension. I think.

[Host 3]

A moderate extension.

[Host 2]

Yeah, moderate extension. I mean he's the classic kind of. He's a good football player and they're a very good defense with him on the field. But they've got so much money committed to the defense that Toa Toa and his agent might be looking at it and saying, you know, whatever the Texans have offered or whatever discussions they've had, we feel like, we feel like there's, there's more for you out there. And the Texans I think, really like Toa Toa but they, they got to be smart at this point about how much they pay guys who aren't the, the premier players on the defense.

[Host 3]

There's some interesting names. You know, Wood as is the one you mentioned him. What as is the one I'm most intrigued by because he, he flat as much as you can flash in minicamp and OTAs and things like that. Like you, he was one of those guys you watch out there like, oh, okay, that's somebody right there. You know, there's 90 guys out there. So he, so he flashed a little

[Host 2]

bit like he's impressive physically.

[Host 3]

Yes.

[Host 2]

He's tall, he's long, he's a former safety. It's the same thing. There was a, there are a few snaps when, when you see Marte Mapu and Wade Wood as out there together, like, oh, that's a, that's an impressive looking. That's an impressive looking linebacker core right there.

[Host 3]

Yes.

[Host 2]

So. But he's very raw. He's a convert to the position himself and like there's. It might take a little bit of time. I think he's going to be a special teams contributor immediately. But this is what d' Amico Ryan's and Billy Davis have done a great job of is developing these linebackers. So I think getting the most out of those two guys, I expect at least one of those guys to kind of rise to the challenge. Aiden Fisher is an interesting one because he's a seventh round pick. All the measurables don't look like he'd be a great NFL linebacker. You know, who's a lot measurables really didn't look like he could be a good NFL linebacker coming out of college. One Aziz Elshire. Like he was Aziz. You look at his, his spider chart and everything like, okay, I don't know. I mean he's a thumper. Maybe he'll have a chance or something. He works with d'. Ameco Ryan's becomes one of the best, you know, one of the best linebackers in the NFL right now.

[Host 3]

Yeah. And two things on that one specific to Aiden Fisher. There was a press conference D' Ameco did at some point in OTAs or minicamp where he gushed about Aiden Fisher.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I don't know if the question

[Host 3]

was directly about Aiden Fisher or was about the linebacker position, but I'm like, wow, you do not hear head coaches talk about seventh round picks.

[Host 2]

No, no. He's exactly the kind of guy that comes from a national championship defense and it was the leader of that defense at linebacker. Especially with d'. Amico. I really trust his ability to see the guys who have really good recognition when to pull the trigger. All of those, all of those intangible linebacker traits. I think d' Ameco's got a really good eye for that.

[Host 3]

That's the second thing I was going to say. If d' Ameco Ryan's is. And I know Nick Casario is the GM and everything, but d' Ameco obviously has heavy input in all this. If the Texans are drafting linebackers and defensive linemen, I'm going to buy on those guys. Yeah, those are just two positions that historically we've seen excel in a demico. Ryan's coached defense and so I'm really, I mean granted he's a second round pick, not a seventh round pick, but Kaden McDonald, I'm very bullish on as a defensive lineman they drafted and similarly the two linebackers they drafted Wood as an Aiden Fisher. Whatever the bar is, whatever the expectations are for a fourth round pick and a seventh round pick coming into training camp, I think they're both going to exceed those.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah. And then it's just a matter of all right, how quickly does it happen? And so I feel, I don't feel awesome about just the proven ability of those guys, but I think between just those three guys that are new to the team, Wade Wood as Aiden Fisher and then Marte Mapu, I'd have a hard time believing that at least one of those guys doesn't rise to the occasion.

[Host 3]

I agree. I agree. All right, you text the show 713-57246 10 headlines coming up next, we'll circle back to the Astros. LeBron watch continues. We'll get into that as well. And a firing in collegiate sports yesterday that I want to touch on as well. We'll do that all in headlines coming up.

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