Prepping you for the Texans Season + Kevin Durant sits down with Draymond Green

Summary

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Payne & Pendergast – "Prepping You for the Texans Season + Kevin Durant Sits Down with Draymond Green"

Date: July 22, 2026
Hosts: Seth Payne & Sean Pendergast (Sports Radio 610/Audacy)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Payne & Pendergast dives deep into the upcoming Houston Texans season, focusing on the team’s roster decisions, national expectations, and the all-important defensive unit. The hosts also analyze a recent discussion between NBA stars Kevin Durant and Draymond Green, connecting lessons from their locker-room drama to the Houston Rockets. The conversation mixes sharp local insight, relatable humor, and a dose of skepticism about media hype and team chemistry.

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Texans Training Camp: The Swarm Mentality, Depth Chart, and Roster "Blindness"

(01:30–06:45)

Key Points:

• The hosts continue their countdown to Texans training camp, focusing on the tight ends room and roster construction.
• "Swarm blinded": The concept—where coaches and media become fixated on a player’s “swarm” mentality or intangibles to the detriment of on-field performance—is debated in relation to RB Dameon Pierce and TE Cade Stover.
• Pierce’s disappointing last two seasons are attributed to a loss of his "superpower" (breaking tackles) with weight loss, and the challenge of separating a running back’s performance from poor blocking.

Notable Quotes:

• “Like Damian Pierce makes the team because he possesses the qualities of the swarm mentality.” — Payne (01:59)
• “You can have a swarmy attitude, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you look swarmy on the field.” — Pendergast (02:07)
• "Swarm blinded. When the Texans make their cut downs to 53, are there any guys that make the roster where I'm like, they're a little swarm blinded with this game." — Payne (05:53)

Insight:

• There’s a cautionary tone about overvaluing intangibles—if players don’t produce, even with great hustle and character, it’s not enough.

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National Media Hype & Texans Outlook: Statistical Reality Check

(06:45–13:15)

Key Points:

• The NFL Network’s record predictions for all 32 teams: all seven experts picked the Texans to exceed 9.5 wins (Vegas win total).
• The pressure of expectations: hosts worry the consensus optimism could “jinx” the team, especially since preseason win totals are designed for balanced opinions.
• The Texans are favored in 13 of their 17 games but don’t have any large spread—a lot of “coin flip” matchups.

Notable Quotes:

• “When you see seven experts in one exercise all pick the Texans to go over nine and a half wins… I get nervous when I see stuff like this.” — Payne (09:03)
• “It's a vote of confidence for the defense.” — Pendergast (11:14)
• “If this defense were to backslide this year, and I don't think—there's a floor on how far they could backslide... the floor for this defense healthy is like a top three defense.” — Payne (11:31)

Insight:

• Defense, returning all starters, is seen as a stable and elite unit—a national media outlier versus typical “defensive regression.”
• Injury is the only factor the hosts see that could truly derail the defensive unit.

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Emphasizing the Start: Opening Schedule & Home Field Advantage

(13:48–23:01)

Key Points:

• The first four games are daunting: Bills, Bengals, Colts (away), Cowboys—all formidable quarterbacks and offenses.
• NRG Stadium (soon to be Reliant Stadium again) is cited as a particularly tough environment for opposing QBs, including Josh Allen.
• Discussion about the emotional importance for winning the opener, and why some opponents matter more for tiebreaker scenarios if the Texans are contenders.
• The impact of a new Bills DC (Jim Leonhard) and early-season unpredictability.

Notable Quotes:

• “The crowd has such a big effect on that game, and they can make it as miserable as absolutely possible for Josh Allen and the Bills…” — Pendergast (16:47)
• "If the Texans are going to get to a Super Bowl… they've got to be a one or two seed, in my opinion. They've got to be sure that they're playing that divisional round game at home..." — Payne (20:39)

Memorable Moment:

• Hosts riff on Josh Allen’s past struggles in Houston, and Payne jokes about his own family’s divided fandom: “Bills fans. Loathsome people, but they're related to me.” — Pendergast/Payne (17:22–17:31)

Insight:

• The back-end of the schedule is loaded with challenges (e.g., Christmas Eve road game in Philadelphia), making a strong start—and winning tiebreaker games—crucial.

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Kevin Durant & Draymond Green: Leadership Lessons for the Rockets

(28:28–36:39)

Key Points:

• The hosts play and analyze a clip from Kevin Durant on Draymond Green’s podcast, where Durant expresses frustration about Warriors management avoiding real solutions after his 2018 argument with Draymond.
• Durant believes adults in the room (Kerr & Myers) should’ve forced the issue, but both Payne and Pendergast agree there should’ve been more player accountability.
• Houston Rockets parallel: Durant’s handling of “Burnergate” on social media and his chemistry with the team after joining Houston is questioned.
• There’s skepticism about Durant ever being a “culture leader” in the locker room—even as a strong on-court presence.

Notable Quotes:

• “I just didn't like how all of that. Just the vibe between all of that, it just made [it] weird to me…” — Kevin Durant (31:14)
• “If you're have a veteran led team, you should be able to figure this out.” — Pendergast (34:22)
• “We know what we're not getting with Kevin Durant… he's never going to be a take-the-team-by-the-lapels kind of leader that just takes the reins.” — Payne (32:56)

Memorable Moment:

• Hosts compare Draymond Green’s self-awareness and “heel” tactics to NFL’s C.J. Gardner-Johnson—effective, but potentially destabilizing personalities.

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Rockets Roster: Value of Running It Back

(36:43–39:13)

Key Points:

• Discussion of Michael Pena’s article in The Ringer advocating for the Rockets to “run it back” with the same core, rather than making a blockbuster move.
• Fred VanVleet’s return is seen as a stabilizing force, particularly regarding turnover differential and team roles.
• Both hosts note that, for all the frustrations, the pre-injury Rockets roster was considered promising, and maintaining that continuity could be beneficial.

Notable Quotes:

• “If you look at this team, running it back goes back to before Fred VanVleet got injured last year—people were very, very bullish about the Rockets.” — Pendergast (37:23)
• “If that's the only guy you have, yes, it's a big deal.” — Payne (39:13)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• Texans’ Swarm Blindness / Roster Construction: 01:30–06:45
• Media Hype & Win Totals: 06:45–13:15
• Analyzing Opening Schedule / Home-Field Impact: 13:48–23:01
• Durant & Draymond’s On-Air Reconciliation + Rockets Leadership Discussion: 28:28–36:39
• Rockets Roster “Run It Back” Philosophy: 36:43–39:13

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Takeaways

• Texans optimism is sky-high nationally, mostly due to the returning defensive core, but the hosts urge fans to temper expectations and beware groupthink.
• Initial schedule will be pivotal, as Houston needs to bank wins early before hitting a gauntlet at the end of the season.
• Kevin Durant’s strengths and limitations as a locker-room leader: plenty to offer on the court, but unlikely to resolve or stem any deeper chemistry issues.
• For the Rockets, stability and roles may matter more than star chasing, especially given last year’s promising start pre-injury.

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For Listeners

If you missed this episode, you’re caught up on the hard questions about Texans roster decisions and the hidden dangers of expectation, plus a no-nonsense take on NBA star personalities and Houston’s path forward in both football and basketball.

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Transcript

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[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Sports Radio 610 presents Payne and Pendergast okay, we'll get to the the question that I asked as the tease here. The the, the the consensus opinion on the Texans in just a second. We talked about the tight ends at 6:25. That was the question. Question number six in our countdown to Texans training camp was what do we think the tight end room looks like? I th this texter uses a term that I kind of like oh, are the Texans swarm blinded? Oh my gosh, Stover.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

They're just too blinded by the swarm.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Like Damian Pierce makes the team because he possesses the qualities of the swarm mentality.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Well, I think this is the thing about being swarmy. You can have a swarmy attitude, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you you look swarmy on the field. And I don't like there's nothing about Cade Stover in his first couple of years where I felt like oh hell yeah, right. That's the kind of.

[Carl's Jr. Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

I don't.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

So I think they might think he's capable of being a swarmy player.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

I think they definitely think he's capable because they've talked about him in such big terms.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

But you got to be. You got to be competent. That's one of the keys. It should be swarm. It'd be a special work ethic and relentless mindset and competent swarmac in a perfect world.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

I agree with you. I think bringing up Damian Pierce is an appropriate thing to bring up by the texture, which is like, hey, Damian Pierce had a lot of those qualities. Didn't really. After 2022, didn't really display them.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

I was.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

And they kept him around for two more years.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

The biggest thing that Swarm blind and, you know, you and I, through a couple of training camps, I told you it was tough. And it was tough in the. In the preseason games because, all right, there was times where it looked like I didn't think Damian was necessarily reading the blocking all that well or seeing the field all that well, but he also didn't have good blocking in front of him. That's really dicey for a running back. The thing that concerned me the most about Damian that I could see in. In training camp practices was that for a guy whose calling card was breaking tackles, he was on the ground a lot. Just when guys were thudding him up, he was on the ground. And, you know, he had lost weight from his rookie year, which is cool. He looked quicker and all that. But I think we were talking about this with baseball earlier. Some guys, some power hitters especially, they just. That they've got their ideal body weight where it's. They're a little chunky like some guys. It's not as simple as, wow, if you lose ten pounds, you'll be that much quicker and everything. Some guys just have to be the right body weight. And for Damian, I felt like one every once. He got more slender after his rookie year. He was just. He didn't break tackles, and that's being a little bit faster. When speed isn't. Your calling card isn't worth it if you're losing your superpower and your calling card, which is breaking tackles. Yeah. Like, this happened for two straight years. First in 2023, it was that Damian was the feature back early in the season, and it wasn't working. And it took his injury to realize, okay, we got to move on. And. And then last year, I thought the same thing. They just. They.

[Kevin Durant/Draymond Green Podcast Commentator]

They.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

They still believed in him more than he had really shown since. Really since the first part of his rookie season. People forget that his rookie year, it was awesome. But then before he got injured, there was a couple of games, at least a couple of games where he was averaging 2 yards per carry, you know,

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

and it was team.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah, yeah. Well, and that's where it's tough with running backs, same way it is with quarterbacks. How do you separate the blocking from the actual running back performance?

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

He's on the Eagles now. I think Damien is, because my aunt texted me like two or three months ago, Damien had he at one point signed with the Eagles. You never know what happens through OTAs and minicamp with guys that are fringe guys. And he's a fringe guy now. He's a guy trying to make a team. And she's like, well, tell me about this Damian Pierce. I'm like, it's very complicated, Aunt Barbara. Yeah, it's very complicated. Not because Damian's a bad guy or anything. He's one of the greatest guys ever. Yeah, but he was, he was a. He was a shining star his rookie year. And then it just never came back.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

And then there's an element he might

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

have been a little swarm blinded.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

And in certain types of. The thing is, he's a guy that. He wants to be able to see the hole run through the hole. And that's. That's hard in modern football. You know that things are a little bit more hazy than that usually. And if you put a guy in who's only good with certain types of run plays, it gets pretty damn easy for the defense to figure out what they need to defend.

[Sports Radio Host/Commentator]

Yep.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

And like his, his inability to kind of see the field is what they were hoping was going to click at some point and just never clicked for him.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

I'm going to keep an eye out. Texter. I like that term, swarm blinded. When the Texans make their Cut Downs to 53, are there any guys that make the roster where I'm like, they're a little sworn blinded with this game.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Was there anybody? Well, it's always that, that mix. And this is whenever you try to emulate the way Belichick did it, you know, Belichick did a really good job with the guys that were unheralded in terms of their athleticism or what have you. You know, the Julian Edelman's of the world, that people start like falling in love with that concept. But you gotta always check yourself and be like, all right, yeah, you can check off all those boxes in terms of the intangibles and Everything else, but, like, at the end of the day, you gotta, you got to also produce.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

And they, they fall in. Yeah. It's good to be concerned about the process more than results, etc. Etc. But you always have to check yourself that, like, all right, you got to execute the process properly.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yeah. The final score matters. All right, so the NFL Network did an exercise last week where they, they took a cross section of their. Of seven of their experts, all of whom I think are still with the company after yesterday, after the, the, the layoffs. And they, they gave their predictions on records for the various teams around the league, including the Houston Texans. So this follows a trend that I've seen this offseason with the Texans, where ironically, in a postseason where their quarterback completely collapsed in a game against New England, it is hard to find a negative opinion on the Houston Texans, at least.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah, there's nobody, at least I haven't seen anybody of notes saying, boy, the Texans are poised for a collapse because of their quarterback. Yeah, it's a lot of, man, the Texans are a good team. And it's just a matter of, okay, how good can C.J. stroud be to. To make them an actually elite team?

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

So these seven experts, you would think amongst, you know, people that, you know, don't have a vested interest in the Texans, that there would be at least one or two dissenting opinions. And I need to point out that the Vegas season win total for The Texans is nine and a half. Yeah, it's nine and a half. So the. Over. Under nine and a half.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

It's nine and a half. But they're, they're currently favored in 13 games.

[Sports Radio Host/Commentator]

Right.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

And I think that's where. When people go through the exercise and you're trying to figure it out, that's what. Because I did that, too. I'm like, all right, like realism, like nine and a half. I know people think that. Oh, that's like an insult or something. No, it's. It's really. You got to be really, like, really, really good to, to get, you know, more than ten and a half wins.

[Kevin Durant/Draymond Green Podcast Commentator]

Oh.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

If you preseason projection, you have a

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

season win total of 11 or more, you're an elite football.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Right. And. And yet when you go through the, when you go through the game by game odds. Yeah, they're favored in 13 games. And they all make sense.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

They all make sense.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Obviously they're going to lose some of those, you know, and that's why we

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

have a win or two or three or four from the upsets. Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yep. You Steal one or two.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

The Bills.

[Sports Radio Host/Commentator]

The Bill.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Them being underdogs against the Bills, that's the only one that rankles me.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

And that may change between now and the start of the season. We'll see. You know, and obviously, injuries can change a lot of things. This is. This is where I start to get nervous when I see it done empirically like this. It's one thing to see like, oh, Nate Tice did a video picking the Texans to go to the Super Bowl. You know, Dan Orlofsky's really liked the Texans over the last few years. I'm sure he said nice things about them. I'm just cherry picking individual examples. When you see one person saying nice things like, oh, that's nice. When you see seven experts in one exercise all pick the Texans to go over nine and a half wins. All of them.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

The win total is designed to get people's opinions landing on both sides of the aisle. And these are. These are NFL Network people, you know, other than. Lance Zurline is one of them. He lives here in Houston and he likes the Texans. He's the only one, I would say. And I don't think Lance makes his predictions based on a bias or anything like that. But there's two, Colleen Wolf and Nick Shook that pick them 10 and 7. There's three Lance, Grant Gordon and Brooks Saracemo, who picked them 11 and 6. Your guy Bucky Brooks has them going 12 and 5. Dan Parr has them going 13 and 4. I get nervous when I see stuff like this.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Okay.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Everybody's on one side.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

You know what, though?

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

They're gamblers.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

They're all on one side. I think, though, that there is an element with the Texans and this team specifically is the. They've been. They've been in the preseason. They've been nine and a half the last couple of years, and the defense has been really, really impressive. Last year it was really good. And they bring back all their starters, plus add a couple of guys to the mix. Defensively, I think it's more of a. It's usually what. What a lot of people with the nerdy types will tell you is, man, defense fluctuates from year to year. But there are exceptions to that. Like, it's harder to predict that a team's going to have a good defense consistently than it is if you've got a really good quarterback and you get the same guys come back if you

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

have a really good quarterback.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah, it's easier to predict that they're going to consistently be a good passing Offense. Yeah. I think with the Texans defense, they're, they're one of those outliers that. Because of the consistency, because the Miko Ryan's and the defensive coordinator remain the same. You got all the personnel coming back and they, and they had the record they did last year that it just, it's, it feels like it's, it's more stable that they should win more than nine and a half games. But there's only. I mean, there's only two people out of seven here, eight here, that picked 12 wins or more.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

So, I mean, that's.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

They're in that range.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah. I think, like, it's a, It's a show of respect to d' Ameco and the defense in the fact that they weren't a horrendous offense last year. They were a very mediocre offense, but they weren't a horrendous offense that. I think that in the regular season, that's where people are looking at them. It's a, It's a vote of confidence for the defense.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

What if. Okay, that's, that's interesting. If this defense were to backslide this year, and I don't think. I think there's a floor on how far they could backslide.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

But I think everybody around football thinks the floor for this defense. Healthy is like a top three defense. Is. Is. Are injuries the only thing that can short circuit this defense? Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

And you know, there's one. The other thing that people might say is that, all right, the Texans are relatively vanilla in terms of their scheme and everything that they do. They're not as complex or ornate as a guy like a Vic Fangio and that sometimes over time that you feel like, okay, people start to get a beat on you. I don't worry about that with the Texans because they've already, they've already been through that part of it. They get by because they execute really well. They're really well coached. They've got the players that fit the scheme and all of the potential weaknesses and everything about the way they operate. Like, it's already known if, like, if you go to Pete Carroll back with a legion of boom, now Pete Carroll was even more just, we're going to line up and play. You know, we're going to play cover three all the time or just like. Which is an exaggeration. But the. Where it started to fall off is when they started to lose some of the personnel. You know, it's okay to show your hand and to be somewhat predictable as long as you execute really well. So. But for this year, I'm not worried about that. That's a problem for two and three years from now if they have to. If they can't retain both Kaylin Bullock and Kamari Lassiter and those types of

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

issues, I I got super stoked for the first month of the season when you and I were talking about it the last couple days for the for this defense. Like the challenge of those first four games. Yeah, this defense is going to be one of the most fun things to look forward to throughout training camp. For those who don't have the schedule

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[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Memory Home for the Bills, home for the Bengals at Indianapolis, home for the Cowboys, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow and then skip ahead to Dak Prescott. All three of those games at home. And then as you pointed out yesterday, if Daniel Jones is healthy and that Colts offense gets the same groove going early in the season, this season that they did last season, that's a at least offensively, that's like a first four games in terms of the challenge of, like, the O' Brien Covid 2020 season.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

When the Texans opened the season, and that was more of just a general overall team versus team challenge. But that season, we looked at the schedule to start the season and we were like, oh, crap. Like they might go, oh, and four. And they did. And Bill o' Brien got fired because it was the Chiefs on the road. It was the Ravens at home with Lamar coming off his mvp, his first MVP season. It was the Steelers in Pittsburgh back before Ben Roethlisberger became a complete geriatric. And then the Minnesota Vikings here. Yeah. And we were like, wow, they could go, oh, and four. And sure enough, they went, oh, and four.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

This is what I like about the opening those first three home games. This is. This is big for the crowd itself. It is a. This is a difficult place to play by. By week one, it will be officially renamed Reliance Stadium. Yep. Is it yet? I think it's August or something.

[Kevin Durant/Draymond Green Podcast Commentator]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Whatever it is, the World cup stepped

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

in and Houston Stadium.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah, they're gonna. They're Right now, they're still like peeling tape off of logos and everything in the stadium because all the branding stuff that FIFA did, the. So it's a hard place for quarterbacks to play. We know that because Josh Allen has had some of his worst games of his career at NRG Stadium. They face. They face Josh Allen. The home crowd I'm talking about.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

So the home crowd. And I'll be out in the stands for some of parts of these games. I'm not allowed to cheer when I'm in the press box. I'm allowed to scream my face off when I'm down in the. Down in the stands.

[Sports Radio Host/Commentator]

Yep.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

So you've got Josh Allen, you've got Joe Burrow, you've got Dak Prescott at home three times in the first four weeks.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yes.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

That. Like that. How fun is the noise and the energy and everything where at the beginning of the season, your every emotions are running high. That Bills game is just critical in terms of just people who might let go of the rope early or something if there's a disappointing performance. The crowd has such a big effect on that game, and they can make it as miserable as absolutely possible for Josh Allen and the Bills fans who are increasingly reluctant even to come to Houston anymore because it's like people in Buffalo, Sean, you know, I'm. I'm from that area.

[Sports Radio Host/Commentator]

Yep.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

I know. Bills fans.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yes.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Loathsome people, but they're related to me and they don't like the Idea of going to you. My brother in law who travels to a lot of Bills games, he's like, I'm not, I'm not going.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

It's not a small.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Sorry, I see you enough, Seth. I don't know. I don't need to go watch my team get destroyed.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

No. And the way, the way that, the way the Bills have played, spanned it, it's. It's spanned the entirety of Josh Allen's career.

[Kevin Durant/Draymond Green Podcast Commentator]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

He came here as a rookie and he got replaced in that game. Came here in a playoff game, got shut down in the second half of that game.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

And then we almost made a classic young Josh Allen mistake in that game. Remember when he tried to lateral it? It could have been a disaster.

[Carl's Jr. Advertiser]

I do.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

And then the big thing is the last two years because we still. There's still so much connective tissue on both.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Last year was the second worst game he's played as a pro.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

By some metrics.

[Sports Radio Host/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Bad.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

That was a Kalyn Bullock game.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Now, the thing is, DJ Moore, like, they're. They're putting a lot on DJ Moore. Yes, they're putting a lot on DJ Moore. And Joe Brady, the offensive Joe Brady. Joe Brady is somehow acting like now that he's the head coach, that there's going to be something different with the offense, despite him being the offensive coordinator. So I don't know how heavy handed Sean McDermott was when. When Sean McDermott was telling Joe Brady how to operate. Remember that story about Joe Brady went to Keon Coleman and said, me, me becoming me being your head coach is the best thing for you.

[LinkedIn Advertiser Colleague]

Oh, yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

I'm like, all right, well, how about you being his offensive coordinator?

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

It was weird.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

What the hell are you talking about?

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yeah, like, oh, so it's. Everything's changing now, I guess.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

I started thinking about too, the way you and I were looking at the first four games and we were going through an exercise like, okay, well, if they were to go three and one in the first four games, but the football gods let you pick who they lose to. And I put up a poll and most people said the Bengals because that's the one that's got the least emotion attached to it. I would say if I could pick the one I least want to lose, it might be the Bills that I least want to lose. Like, I might want to lose less to the Bills than even the Colts in the division and the Cowboys being Dallas. And here's why. Two reasons. One, I just don't want to lose the opener. I just don't Want to be Owen one again.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

They've been owing one to start two of them. Three d' Amico seasons his first season and then and last year and that was an Owen three was miserable. But oh and one, I don't want to start Owen one. The other thing is if the Texans are what all these NFL Network people are, not all, but most of them think they can be or what most Texan fans hope they can be, like a 13 win team.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

The tiebreakers you're talking about have less to do with the division and more to do with your standing in the conference. In other words, we know the Bills are going to be a good team like the Bills are going to be at minimum. If Josh Allen is healthy. They're a 12 and 5 football team at a minimum. There's a reason why they're the favorite out of the AFC to get to the Super Bowl. I believe they're the favorite, if not their second favorite behind maybe Baltimore or somebody ironically, probably not New England who actually made the super bowl last year. Maybe Denver's in the mix, but the Bills are among the top three or four teams to make the super bowl. If, if the Texans are who we hope they are. And that would be a team that's fighting for a one or a two seed.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah, you're.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

You should be more worried about your head to head with the Bills than you are your head to head with the Bengals or certainly the Cowboys. In the nfc, the head to head with them means nothing.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Or even the Colts. And I know people are going to say, well, that's a head to head in the division. Don't you have to win the division first? Sure, you got to win the division first. But the fact of the matter is if the Texans are going to get to a Super Bowl, I felt strongly, hell, if the Texans are just going to get to a conference title game. They've never done that before. They've got to be a one or a two seed in my opinion. They've got to be sure that they're playing that divisional round game at home enough going on the road in the division.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Well, and you go back to. All right, the strength of this team as of now is the defense. And where is the defense like the defense? The defense is a big. What you get out of this defense at home in that environment, especially because it's your pass rush that makes really everything tick. I think you gained just so much more of an advantage there even than from the quarterback and passing game side of things. Being in a in an advantageous environment at home, that your superpower as a team gets amplified when you're playing at home.

[Sports Radio Host/Commentator]

Yes.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

And it does. It aside for all the conventional reasons that your quarterback is better off playing at home and the weather elements and everything, that makes it a lot easier for CJ Stroud to not do whatever the hell that.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Well, they play two home playoff games under d' Amico Ryan's, and they've both been blowouts. Yeah, they both been blowouts. And the crowd.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

And the crowd they were hinged on the defense really. Like the offense got off the slow starts in both those blowouts. It was defensive. It was. It was big plays by the defense that really. Well, especially in the Browns game.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Well, the Browns game was the closeout. They had the two pick sixes in the second half.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah, that's what I mean. Like, it was. Oh, the other blowouts. Yeah.

[Sports Radio Host/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

So, yeah, the other thing about the Bills is just that there's so many things about that defense that are going to present. It's physically not as big a challenge as the Bengals will probably be. But the Bills have a brand new defensive coordinator in Jim Leonard. Jim Leonard does. He comes by way of the Broncos and they do a lot of funky stuff. They're probably going to blitz a lot. They're going to be a lot different than your normal Bills defense from the last few years. And there's not going to be any film on them. You know, like, so. So this offensive line, at the beginning of last year, the offensive line was doing all those same old things where they had a hard time sorting things out. CJ Trying to run the show and being involved in pass protections and everything, there's going to be a lot of mental challenges and facing that brand new defense that you don't have any film on, that might be best solved by just saying, all right, we got to be able to bash these guys in the mouth.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Do you think they're watching a lot of old Jim Leonard film from other places?

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

I mean, the coaches. The coaches. Yeah, the players. It's trickier. Like, it's. That's. It's a. Week one sucks with that because you're. You're trying to prepare for the individuals and the guys you're going to play, but when it comes to scheme, like you watch a bunch of Broncos film and like there's a disconnect. And also you don't know how much Jim Leonard's going to take from that with different personnel. So is that week one sucks.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Well, so that's interesting. So the ambush factor in week one probably favors the bill over the.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah, because they have more chance like Joe Brady. We know Joe Brady's been the offensive coordinator. He's maybe going to put his own flavor on things. But yeah, the defensive side of the ball is going to be a complete unknown, especially when you face teams that blitz a lot and do a lot of funky stuff. They're probably going to be pretty vanilla in the preseason and not show a lot of that. You're not the. Nobody plays their starters anymore. So, yeah, you, you go into that game and Nick Kaylee really has to. They've got to be prepared to pivot multiple different directions depending on what they see.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Couple texts to the text line here. 3 and 1 in the first four games. Is that a little too hopeful? No.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Well, I mean, that's why, like, by the odds, that's what they're favored to be.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

They are. Yeah, they're favor, they're, they're slight underdogs to the Bills. Yeah, they're favored by. They're one of only two teams that are actually favored over the Bengals this year. The Bengals are favored in 15 of their 17.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

A lot of credit to that off season that they had defensively. I mean, they were, they were like the, they were one of the very worst defenses in the league last year. They added a bunch of free agents. That's always, that's Sometimes it's awesome, sometimes it's a flaming disaster.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Absolutely. But the Texans are one of two teams to be favored over the Bengals. They're favor. I think they're favored in Indianapolis against the Colts. I think a slight favorite and then I think they're favorable like a field goal over the Cowboys. The Texans, they're favored in 13 of their 17 games, and yet there's not a single game they're playing in where the spread is more than like six and a half points one way or the other. Yeah, it's a lot of coin flip games on this schedule.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

It's 100% all about just people respecting that defense and expecting to win games in close, close margin games.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yep, Absolutely. Absolutely. So, yeah, I, I, my feeling is not just three and one in the first four. I think they need to go five and two in the first seven because of what the back end of the schedule looks like in terms of how lopsided it is, road versus home, some of the venues that they're going to, the situations they're put in in some of these games. They're playing Christmas Eve on the road on a Thursday In Philadelphia, like, that checks every box for a loss.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

If we're picking the most likely games for the Texans to lose, like if we were power ranking, most likely to win games for them, the bottom of the power rankings would be that Philly game. Christmas Eve. It's on a holiday outdoors, cold weather Thursday. I don't know who they play. I think the week before they play Jacksonville, so they'd be coming off a division game, you know, so there's an emotional part of it is meant to be a letdown coming off a Jacksonville game. So, yeah, that back. They got to go five and two before the bye week. That's my opinion.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Are we scheduled to be in London for the London game?

[Sports Radio Host/Commentator]

Not yet. Not yet.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

We got to work on a sponsor for that.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

I think Yingling is probably your go to.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

If you're listening.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah. Do they have a presence in England yet?

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

I don't know yet. Let's get one. Yeah, let's get one for him.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

There's one thing I know about Europeans is they love American Light. They never complain about it.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Okay, shifting gears here for a second, Kevin Durant went on Draymond Green's podcast. Podcast. We know the two of them haven't always gotten along. It seems like they've buried the hatchet. And actually, this cut you're about to hear, and I'm playing this. I want to look at this through a Rockets lens in a way, with Kevin Durant, but this is him and Draymond sitting down. If you recall, he and Draymond did not get along. And probably the peak of that was a game In November of 2018, early in the season, after they'd won two championships in a row. They got into a big dust up at towards the end of a game against the Clippers where they needed a basket. At the end of the game, Draymond's bringing the ball up the floor and Kevin Durant's, like, clapping and wanting the ball to go get a bucket. And Draymond just goes into business for himself, drives the lane, turns the ball over. They start yelling at each other. They're yelling on the bench at each other. They're yelling in the locker room at each other was apparently very uncomfortable, and it made for a pretty toxic setting for the rest of the year. It kind of set the table for what that relationship was going to be like. And Kevin Durant looks back and always says, that was a big reason he left Golden State to go to Brooklyn. He just, you know, it was a toxic environment. The two of them have buried the hatchet to the point where Kevin Durant sits down with Draymond Green.

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[Texans Analyst - Payne]

And hashes out, this is what Golden State could have done better to not have that toxic environment between Draymond and Kevin Durant.

[Kevin Durant/Draymond Green Podcast Commentator]

It wasn't the argument. It was the way that everybody. Steve Kerr act like it didn't happen. Bob Myers tried to just discipline you and think that that would put the mask over everything. I really felt like that was such a big situation for us as a group. The first time we went through something like that. We had to get that all out. I remember watching the Last dance, and when Scottie didn't go into the game, the whole team in the locker room said, scotty, that up that you did that. We needed that. We just needed to throw all of that table and say, yo, J. K. Like that up that. We even had to go through that. Let's just wipe our hands with that and go finish the task. I don't think we did that. And we tried to dance around it. I just didn't like how all of that. Just the vibe between all of that, it just made weird to me. And I'd rather us be who we say we are. Family first. Communication is key. Like, we didn't show that. And that's what rubbed me the wrong way more than anything.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah. Family first. Okay. So publicly, the Rockets acted, including Kevin Durant acted like Burnergate was nonsense.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

He didn't want to get into Twitter nonsense.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Right. So that's publicly. Do we know internally how they handled it?

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

I don't know.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Has anybody spoken about, like, having a meeting about that specifically or not?

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

I don't know. I just know that that looked. The Rockets looked like a team.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

After the All Star break. Because that happened at the All Star break. Remember Durant's walking around on the floor at the All Star Game, looking at

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

his phone all the time, and it's.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Well. And that was when the whole thing was bubbling up. So people assumed he was looking and seeing what the. What the. What the fallout was, was from all that stuff. They did not play like a team that squashed whatever these issues are. They didn't look like a team, didn't seem to act like a team.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

And.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

And when people get asked directly about it, you know, the players get asked directly about it, they deny that there's chemistry issues and things like that. I just know they played like a team that had chemistry issues. And I don't know if we have a full answer on how it all got handled behind the scenes. How did IME Udoka handle it? Did he take it head on directly? Because that's what Durant's complaining about there. It's kind of funny to me, and it's a little off putting to me that Durant's almost complaining. Like, why didn't the adults discipline us a little bit more about this? Like, why didn't. Why didn't they take the reins on this?

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

It's like everybody adults, like nothing happened. Like, maybe assuming that us two adults would figure it out.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Right.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah. Yeah, you're right. No, 100%. I'm glad you said that.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Like, wait a second. Like, why. Why is it on?

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

So it's Bob Myers fault and Steve Kerr's fault.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Right, Like, Steve Kerr, sure. He could have handled it differently, obviously. But also, you've got some agency in that you're being one of the parties involved.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

That cut made me that. That as a Rocket fan. Yeah, that cut made me concerned for. I guess not concerned. I mean, I think we know the kind of. The deal with Kevin Durant going in and he's, He's. He's never going to be a take the team by the lapels kind of leader that it just takes the reins. He's a great basketball player. There's no question about that. And there's certainly, I'm sure, ways he leads by example. But this, this cut to me just kind of reinforced, like, okay, we know what we're not getting with Kevin Durant. You know, we know we're not getting somebody. Somebody that is this, this chemistry leader, force multiplier, like an ethos force multiplier. Be a culture force multiplier behind the scenes.

[LinkedIn Advertiser]

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[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Was. Has he been in complete denial about the burner gate stuff? Like, did he just flat out tell everybody? No, it's garbage. I don't know what this is.

[Oregon Lottery Advertiser]

Then.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

This is the problem. This is where it. But the problem is that's a hard denial to make because of your reputation as a guy that's on Twitter all the time and has burner accounts and all that. That. Yeah. You know, you've been in positions before where you're totally innocent, but, you know, it looks like you're guilty.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Right.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

And that's a hard way to talk yourself out of. Because all of a sudden you sound defensive, like, oh, but you're saying exactly what a guy would say if he was lying about his.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

I almost get it into my head that I did do it.

[Carl's Jr. Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

All the circumstantial evidence looks like I did it.

[Amica Insurance Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

And I know that as I try to explain this, I'm gonna sound exactly like somebody who's lying about not having a burner account.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Because, like, so he made his bed in that regards. Yeah. I don't. I don't have an appetite for Kevin Durant blaming management or Steve Kerr for him. For him not getting along with Draymond Green. Yeah, that's. Those are like your two veteran players that should be able to figure this stuff out. If you're have a veteran led team, you should be able to figure this out.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Draymond and I were acting like babies, yelling at each other. It affected the locker room for the rest of the year. By all accounts, to the extent that Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant up and left the team and went somewhere else at the end of the year. Whose fault is that, man?

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Everybody but mine.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

So I, like, I take no accountability.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Does it make me more concerned, Less concerned. The same amount of concern about Kevin Durant because Kevin Durant is an outstanding basketball player. It doesn't move the needle for me very much because it's not like I thought they were bringing Durant in here to be this. This. This thing that the chemistry of the team was built on. Yeah, he's here to score 28 points.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Nobody, nobody.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Don't rock the boat.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Nobody expects Durant to come in and be the alpha that tells everybody how it's going to be or anything. He's a resource for the younger players.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yes.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

And all of that, but he's not necessarily going to be the guy that just creates the emotional drive of the team.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yep. Yep. It was interesting seeing the two of them sitting down with each other and just kind of nodding their heads and talking to Draymond, kind of agreeing with Kevin Durant that it was Steve Kerr's fault. And Bob Myers.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

I mean, Draymond. Draymond's one of those, you know, he reminds me of a little bit, is like, he's. If C.J. gardner Johnson just could control himself a little bit better because CJ Gardner Johnson knows that he can be a bit much, and yet he just always goes back to, like, even within the same interview. I watched a bunch of interviews of him last year, and, you know, he's a guy that knows he needs to act differently, but then he just can't help. But at some point, even after he said he takes accountability for it, like five minutes later in the interview, he's blaming somebody for why it didn't work out here. Why it didn't work out there. Draymond has that tendency, but I think he's more self aware. Like, he knows he's a pain in the ass, but he also knows that him being a pain in the ass is kind of part of what makes him like, it's part of what works for him and also works with him being on that warriors team. But are those great warriors team. He just. He's got more self awareness of it than C.J. gardner, Johnson. Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

No. Draymond being a heel is part of what makes him. What has made him at times a great. I think he's still a good player.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

What has made him at times a great player.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

At least a great fit in Golden State for what he does. No question. No question about that.

[Sports Radio Host/Commentator]

All right.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Pain and Pendergast with you. I want to get to this later. There was an article in the. In the ringer about the Rockets by Michael Pena. And I. I was. I don't know where I was on the spectrum of hoping the Rockets would make a big move this off season. I'm sure at times I probably said, look, if you're going to catch OKC in San Antonio, running it back ain't the way. He actually kind of talked me into the running it back thing. We don't have time to dig into it a little bit.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

He says all the same things I've been telling you. I'm going lose my crap.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

What. What he puts up, he puts big value on Fred Van Vliet coming back, Right?

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yeah.

[Sports Radio Host/Commentator]

Which is what I.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Look, Sean might, but he puts some numbers behind it. When they were last year, that made

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

me think, okay, no, this is where honestly, like when you try to detach yourself from everything, it's that if you look at this team running it back goes back to before Fred Van Vliet got injured last year, people were very, very bullish about the Rockets.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

It's the exact same roster, by and large.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

That you were bullish about before Fred Van Vliet got injured. Yeah, y.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

That's what he told me in this article.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

I know. It's what I've been saying this whole damn time in that. And he probably also says without friend Van Vliet, this young core that you're so excited about were forced to play out of position. So certainly you didn't see the better version of those guys.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Says simply a focus on clearer roles and fewer turnovers. In all seriousness, I didn't realize just how bad they were at some of these things. 27th in turnover differential last year, second slowest pace.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah. When you got a bunch of young guys trying to figure out how to run the offense through themselves and they're not that good at it. You turn the ball over a lot.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Some of the things he's saying. Yeah.

[Sports Radio Host/Commentator]

All right.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

He brought up some other things too, about how well positioned they are going into this season to be nimble. We'll get into that later in the show. But I, I'm starting, I'm starting to go through, I go through this like Kubler Ross, five phases with all my teams in the off season, like after they get knocked out of the playoffs. And I'm kind of at acceptance right now for last year and I'm ready to start talking myself into the Rockets.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Yeah, No, I think that honestly it

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

took me a little longer to go through.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

The problem is the whole, the whole thing about the Fred Van Vliet stuff is it gets tied up with Raphael Stone's refusal to do anything about it that you also, I think, just get sick of talking about or using it as an excuse because it doesn't feel like, well, okay, an above average point guard, but not a star point guard. Should it really make that big of a difference?

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yeah.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

If that's the only guy you have. If that's the only guy you have. Yes. And it's a big deal.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Yep.

[Sports Radio Host/Commentator]

All right.

[Texans Analyst - Payne]

Pain and pender gas with you. What is it like to be chased around by a 2,000 pound bison? We have the description, the play by play from the guy who went through that from his hospital bed.

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[Texans Analyst - Payne]

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[Oregon Lottery Advertiser]

Oregon Parks make an Oregon Summer but what makes an Oregon park? Well? Oregon Lottery Gameplay helps no matter the game. Megabucks Video Lottery or Keno funds from lottery games helps support parks projects across the state, ensuring they stay safe, accessible and open for all. In fact, Discover State Park Scratches are in stores now. It's the perfect way to put a little bit of Oregon's parks in your pocket. The Oregon Lottery Together we do good things. Must be 18 or older to play. Lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only.

[Texans Analyst - Pendergast]

Gone south has been a podcast about crime in the American south, but for our new season, we're widening the lens. Follow and listen to gone South Season 5, available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your shows.