Texans Defense Getting National Love + Will Lassiter Always be Seen As CB2?

Summary

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Payne & Pendergast – “Texans Defense Getting National Love + Will Lassiter Always be Seen As CB2?”

Air Date: July 8, 2026
Hosts: Seth Payne, Luke Morrow (in for Sean Pendergast)
Podcast: Payne & Pendergast (Audacy/SportsRadio 610)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the Houston Texans’ rising national defensive reputation, focusing on ESPN’s recent position rankings by NFL executives, coaches, and scouts. The hosts analyze the national perception of star cornerback Derek Stingley Jr. (ranked No. 2 at CB) and Kamari Lassiter (just outside the CB top 10), while also touching on Texans edge rushers Will Anderson Jr. and Danielle Hunter’s high rankings. The show features sharp banter about reputation, scheme, and why certain players may always be seen as “No. 2” despite their talent.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Texans Defenders Make National Lists

[01:28]

• ESPN’s annual poll of NFL executives, coaches, and scouts ranks top 10s by position.
• The Texans defense “getting some respect by others in the league” is a focal point for hosts.

Derek Stingley Jr.: Locked in at No. 2 Cornerback

[01:44–05:57]

• Stingley repeats as ESPN’s No. 2 overall CB, just behind Patrick Surtain II (Broncos).
  • Luke Morrow: “Some people ranked him as high as number one on their list.”
  • Seth Payne: “It seems like it’s Surtain number one, and then Derek Stingley number two... I have a hard time arguing against that, just partly because I think the Broncos play a boatload of man coverage... They blitz a lot, they put a lot of pressures on their cornerbacks. You’re always going to get more respect the more you do that.” [02:46]
• Stingley gets votes for both ball skills and intelligence in zone:
  • Luke Morrow: “No cornerback has more interceptions since 2023 than Stingley. A veteran NFL offensive coach said his zone vision is outstanding... the way he sees the field and anticipates in zone is special.” [04:34]
  • Seth Payne: “He’s just got such elite ball skills compared to a lot of great cornerbacks... Stingley’s one of those rare ones where I think, yeah, a lot of people figured he could play NFL wide receiver if he felt like it.” [05:01]
• Stingley’s durability and future potential:
  • Hosts highlight he played through an oblique injury early last season.
  • Expect a fun, ongoing rivalry with Surtain:
    • Seth Payne: “If both these guys continue to play the exact same way for the next three years… that’s probably where it would stay.”

Kamari Lassiter: Perception and the “CB2” Label

[05:57–08:09]

• Lassiter listed as the first honorable mention, essentially “11th best” CB.
  • Luke Morrow: "An NFC defensive coach said: ‘The best number two corner in the league.’” [05:57]
• Seth Payne elaborates on the “perception battle”:
  • “He’s going to be looked at as the guy that plays alongside Derek Stingley, which honestly, he should get more credit instead of less... He’s going to be the focus of attention.” [06:23]
  • Explains Lassiter’s knock: not elite top-end speed, aggravated by the infamous “false” 40-yard dash time debate.
  • “One of the things that he does to make up for that... is he’s got a freakish ability to understand when the ball’s arriving... Lassiter just has a really good feel for arm bar and right up into the path of the football and causing pass breakups.”
• Style points and classic “traits” keep him out of the top 10 despite on-field impact.

The Sauce Gardner Question

[09:39–12:09]

• Listener comments call out “Sauce propaganda”—debating whether Lassiter deserves a top 10 spot over Gardner.
• Seth Payne critiques Sauce Gardner’s lack of physicality and turnovers:
  • "He's got that really, really annoying thing where he's a huge guy but doesn't seem to really relish the physical part of the game... how about an interception every now and then?" [10:01]
  • “I don’t look at him as one of those guys that is so elite at kind of playing the game and understanding exactly when you can and cannot hold... it's such a big part of his game that at some point that starts to work against you.” [10:26]
• On Sauce falling to No. 9 after his rookie year hype:
  • “He’s at number nine on this list. Should Kamari Lassiter be above him? If Kamari plays again this year the way he did last year, then yeah, I think Kamari will be in the top ten.” [10:26]
• Seth references an anonymous quote:
  • “‘Sauce... Lost the sauce now. He got traded for a reason. He’s... not going to tackle all the time... sometimes he’s not playing [zone] correctly. It’s just hard for him to hold up over the course of the game. That doesn’t sound like a top 10 cornerback whatsoever.’” [11:38]
• Hosts allow some devil’s advocate:
  • Teams haven’t tried Sauce much due to playing on bad Jets teams: “How many teams have actually tested him?” [12:09]

Texans Boast Top Edge Rushers, Too

[12:41–13:32]

• Luke: “Texans are the only team with two guys in the top ten [edge rushers]: Will Anderson Jr. #3, Danielle Hunter #6.”
• Seth: Will Anderson Jr. at #3: “It’s fair. Micah Parsons [#2] didn’t go in head-to-head competition with Will Anderson last year... but that part of it irks me a little bit. I feel like Will should be number two overall just based on the fact that he played a lot of football last year.” [13:13]
• Only the Texans and Eagles have two defenders (CB or edge) each in the top 11 at their position.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Derek Stingley vs. Patrick Surtain:
  • Seth Payne [02:46]: “You’re always going to get more respect the more [man coverage] you do... It’s partly a matter of scheme.”
• On Stingley’s Ball Skills:
  • Seth Payne [05:01]: “Stingley’s one of those rare ones where I think, yeah, a lot of people figured he could play NFL wide receiver if he felt like it.”
• On Kamari Lassiter’s Public Perception:
  • Seth Payne [06:23]: “He should get more credit instead of less because... he’s going to be the focus of attention.”
• On Sauce Gardner’s Reputation vs. Reality:
  • Anonymous Coach, quoting Seth [11:38]: “‘Sauce... Lost the sauce now... It’s just hard for him to hold up over the course of the game. That doesn’t sound like a top 10 cornerback whatsoever.’”

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Essential Timestamps

• 01:28 — Episode’s Main Topic: Texans defenders on ESPN’s positional rankings
• 02:46 — Stingley vs. Surtain: Defensive scheme and reputation
• 04:34 — Stingley’s interception stats and praise from coaches
• 05:57 — Kamari Lassiter: First honorable mention, best “CB2”
• 06:23 — Lassiter’s skillset vs. “classic traits” narrative
• 09:39 — Listener challenges “Sauce propaganda”; AFC South CB rankings
• 10:01 — Seth on Sauce Gardner: Lack of physicality, low pick total
• 11:38 — Scouting quote: Critique of Sauce’s limitations
• 12:41 — Texans edge rushers Will Anderson Jr. #3, Danielle Hunter #6 (ESPN list)

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Conclusion

This lively episode showcases how the Texans’ defensive stars are climbing national leaderboards, but also how perceptions—be it due to scheme, reputation, or lingering scouting tropes—shape career narratives. Derek Stingley Jr. garners deserved elite status, yet Kamari Lassiter is still fighting the “CB2” stereotype. The hosts bring humor, personal insight, and direct commentary, setting up the Texans’ defense as one to watch as training camp nears.

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Transcript

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[Luke Morrow]

dizzy, refreshing Texans defense getting some love. It's Payne and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow in for Sean alongside Seth Payne. 713-572-4610 to join the conversation on the text line or always in the YouTube and Twitch chats as well. We referenced this yesterday. Look, it's list season and there might be other lists that we get to throughout the morning, but everyone's putting out their list this time of year as we get ready for training camp to start in a couple weeks. And ESPN right now is going through their series of they're polling executives, coaches and scouts in the NFL for the top 10 at each position. So yesterday we had talked about running backs. Well since then running backs came out on Monday. Since then yesterday was top 10 cornerbacks and today top 10 edge rushers. So two defensive categories with a few Texans mixed in there as well. And I guess it should be no surprise that the Texans defense is getting some respect by others in the league because obviously it's. It's the best or at least one of the best defenses in the NFL. But when you look at the top 10 cornerbacks, Derek Stingley Jr. Wound up at number two. Some people ranked him as high as number one on their list. Last year, he was number two. He's number two again this year behind Patrick Certain Jr. Of the Broncos.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, and I think that's. It's. Generally, this is every power ranking you see of cornerbacks. It seems like it's certain number one, and then Derek Stingley number two. And, And I, I have a hard time arguing against that, just partly because I think the Broncos play a boatload of man coverage. They blitz a lot, they put a lot of pressures on their cornerbacks, and they're. They're going to. You're always going to get more respect the more you do that. That there's almost like a ceiling with those two right now. But unless Patrick Certain starts to fall off a little bit or Stingley somehow makes like another step forward or leap ahead somehow, that that's probably where it would stay if both these guys continue to play the exact same way for the next three years. It's just a. It's partly a matter of scheme. And then I think also especially because the Texans pass rush is so well regarded. I know the Broncos had, you know, damn near a record number of sacks last year, but. But a lot of it was based on heavy blitzing, which puts a lot of pressure on the cornerbacks. So I'm, I'm. This is exactly how I would have power ranked it. I think the one thing with Stingley that might be interesting is that because of the scheme and because he's just so good at what he does, he might continue to get a lot more interceptions than the top cornerbacks tend to get. You know, like, it's. It's not so easy to just not throw the ball anywhere near Derek Stingley when there's times where he's in zone or when you've got Kamari Lasseter on the other side of the field, that he might break the mold a little bit in terms of turnover production, where typically with the really good cornerbacks, you see their first few years, they'll have four or five interceptions a year, and then it trails off as their career goes on because people just don't test them. Stingley might break that mold a little bit.

[Luke Morrow]

And in the blurb it says no cornerback has more interceptions since 2023 than Stingley. A veteran NFL offensive coach said his zone vision is outstanding. He can play man at a high level, but the way he sees the field and anticipates in zone is special. And a veteran NFC coach said elite feet and back to the ball instincts. If you throw a 50, 50 ball, he's probably going to come up with it and the quarterback will choose to throw some of those because the pass. Pass rush is so good.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, that's his ability on 50, 50 balls is the, you know, aside from scheme and everything else is part of that to the. Just where I think he's. He's just got such elite ball skills compared to a lot of great cornerbacks who you also say, yeah, but you know, you can see why he's a defensive back instead of a wide receiver. Stingley's one of those rare ones where I think, yeah, a lot of people figured he could play NFL wide receiver if he felt like it. The other thing too, okay, about him versus certain, you remember that he was working through those oblique injuries this year early in the first half of the season and he wasn't, you know, his peak self. So with an entire healthy season and now two years ago when he really, when he stayed healthy and really, really delivered on everything, that was the first time that people kind of vaulted him up into that elite tier of cornerbacks. So the, the battle between him and Sir Tan will be fun to watch over the next few years.

[Luke Morrow]

On the honorable mention. First honorable mention is Kamari Lassiter. So I guess we could take that to assume that means he's 11th on the list. And an NFL NFC offensive coach said, really good ball skills, not the fastest, but ultra competitive. A little more size and speed and he might be the best NFC defensive coach said the best number two corner in the league. Does honorable mention feel like the right spot for Lassiter?

[Seth Payne]

I. Yeah, I think so. I think Lassiter. I think Lassiter, he's going to have a perception battle against him when it comes to stuff like this just because he's going to be looked at as the guy that plays alongside Derek Stingley, which honestly, he should get more credit instead of less because of that, because he's going to be the focus of attention. But he's also, he's going to get like, you know, on average a little bit more help at times than Derek Stingley does. Stingley still the guy that they're going to want to track the best wide receiver at various times. But I think that that's the almost the perception battle that he'll have to work against. I think the, you know, people get sensitive whenever they bring up, whenever somebody brings up that, you know, he doesn't have elite top end speed. And because there was a, there was misreporting about his 40 time and everything, his 40 time, the 40 time discussion was way overblown. And yet I think it's fair to say that yeah, he wasn't as slow as whatever his reported 40 time was. It was like, like a 4740 or something ridiculous which was bogus based on how he plays on the field. And yet I think that one of the things that he does to make up for that genuinely top tier athleticism is he's got a freakish ability to understand when the ball's arriving and you can think about so many of the big plays he's made. It's a well thrown ball to a receiver that's got a half step on Lassiter, but Lassiter just has a really good feel for Armbar and right up into the path of the football and causing pass breakups. So but when people are given style points and everything on where they rank the top corners, they the subjective part of that, they don't want to, they don't want to give as much credit to that as just the pure classic cover cover traits.

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[Seth Payne]

Wayfarer Every style, Every home,

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[Luke Morrow]

Subject to change on the text line Someone said I'm personally tired of the Sauce propaganda. Lassiter needs one of those top 10 spots, which does take us. Yeah, to Sauce Gardner, the only other cornerback from the AFC south on this list. Of course, with the Colts. He's number nine on the list after being five last year. But he keeps dropping. Where are you on Sauce Gardner at this point in his career?

[Seth Payne]

I think, I mean, for one, he's got that annoying, really, really annoying thing where he's a huge guy but doesn't seem to really relish the physical part of the game, which I know, you know, if it's Deion Sanders, that's one thing. But you're Sauce Gardner, like come up, come up and make a tackle, you know. Or how about an interception every now and then? What was this? That three interceptions in four NFL seasons?

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, I believe so.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. And he look and he's. I think that I don't know if he's progressed beyond where he got away with being handsy a lot. And I don't know if he's refined his game enough like over the course of the past four years to really. He does. I don't look at him as one of those guys that is so elite at kind of playing the game and understanding exactly when you can and cannot hold and what you can get away with and what you cannot. And it's such a big part of his game that at some point that starts to work against you. And part of it is just flat out pettiness that he's with the Colts now and that I like seeing him. He's at number nine on this list. Should Derek Stingley be or should Kamari Lassiter be above him? If Kamari plays again this year the way he did last year, then yeah, I think Kamari will be in the top 10. And hopefully Sauce Gardner is coming off a really disappointing year with the Colts and that, you know, people are wondering why the hell you traded two first round picks for this guy.

[Luke Morrow]

Texans and The Eagles. Only two teams that have two guys in the top 11 on this list.

[Seth Payne]

Best quote from an offensive coach about Sauce Gardner, before we move off of him. Yeah, Sauce. Lost the sauce now. He got traded for a reason. He's a long strider and has the confidence to overshadow his weaknesses. He can press and play cover, too, but he's not going to tackle all the time. He's not going to crack, replace. And when he's playing zone, sometimes he's not playing it correctly. It's just hard for him to hold up over the course of the game. That doesn't sound like a top 10 cornerback whatsoever.

[Luke Morrow]

No.

[Alltrails Announcer]

Right.

[Luke Morrow]

I think at this point it's sort of off that reputation of what he did early in his career, really, just his rookie year.

[Seth Payne]

He's also been playing for a crappy football team, too. I think when it comes to the turnover production. If I were to play devil's advocate and give him a break, I like with like, who on earth goes up against who's playing the jets in the last few years? Saying, like, there's one thing we got to do, it's we got to test Sauce Gardner. If there's one thing I do before I leave the Meadowlands, it's Target Sauce Gardner 10 times because that's the weakness on that jets defense. That's. So it's. It's been few and far between how much. How many teams have actually tested them.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, that's fair.

[MLB The Show Announcer]

That's.

[Luke Morrow]

That's a fair point. Like I said, Texans, Eagles, only two teams to have two different guys on this list. And when it comes to edge rushers, which is the list that just came out about an hour ago from ESPN, Texans are the only team with two guys in the top 10. There will Anderson Jr. Number three, Daniel Hunter, number six. I know we have to hit the break. I've been, I've been late on breaks all week. But real quick, Will Anderson Jr. Number three on this list and we could circle back to this later on this morning as well. He's only behind Micah Parsons and Miles Garrett. Does that seem fair?

[Seth Payne]

It's fair. I. Micah Parsons got to. He didn't go in head to head competition with Will Anderson last year, so to speak, just because, you know, he wasn't available. And that, that part of it irks me a little bit that I feel like Will should be number two overall just based on the fact that he played a lot of football last year.

[Luke Morrow]

You can find those lists on ESPN.com we might circle back to the edge rusher list later on this morning to dive more in depth on Will Anderson Jr. And Daniel Hunter and their spot. But coming up. We got to get to headlines, get you caught up on everything in the sports world of the last 24 hours, including a comeback even greater than the 283 Patriots Super Bowl. We'll talk about it next. Payne and Pendergast

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