TEXANS with the second best group of Under-25 players in the NFL

Summary

Podcast Summary: Payne & Pendergast — "TEXANS with the second best group of Under-25 players in the NFL"
Date: July 23, 2026
Hosts: Seth Payne ("Pain") and Sean Pendergast

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the Houston Texans’ young core, specifically their under-25 talent and how it stacks up against the rest of the NFL based on a ranking system devised by Aaron Schatz, the godfather of DVOA. The hosts dissect the Texans' current position at #2 (behind the Patriots) in ESPN’s under-25 core rankings, discuss Nick Caserio’s performance as GM, and reflect on shifts in perception around quarterback C.J. Stroud. The conversation is a mix of analysis, local insight, and friendly disagreement, giving listeners a deep look at both the data and the subjective narratives surrounding the team.

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Station Move Announcement and Shoutouts

• [01:33] The show opens with gratitude for listeners, especially regarding the move from Sports Radio 610 to 95.7 The Fan.
  • Seth Payne: “Appreciate all the texts rolling in... 95.7 the fan. Lot of people weighing in. Been listening in Huntsville from day one.”
  • Shoutout to Grego, the outgoing voice of "the Spot," as a titan in Houston radio.
• **Hosts acknowledge that the move is a risk but believe they can build on the previous success.

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Evaluating the Texans' Under-25 Core

Defining the Under-25 Core

• [04:01] Discussion about who qualifies as “under-25”—players like Stingley and Petrie have aged out.
• Key names that remain: C.J. Stroud, Will Anderson Jr., Kamari Lassiter, Ariante Ursary, Kalen Bullock, and others from recent drafts.

Quote [04:57]:
Host 2 (Pendergast): “It's yielded CJ, Will, Tank—who we can put to the side but also acknowledge. And then of course, Kamari Lassiter and Kalen Bullock.”

ESPN/Aaron Schatz’s Methodology

• [05:38] Breakdown of Aaron Schatz’s ESPN rankings:
  • Criteria: Number of starts and snaps by under-25s, contract value, position value (QB/Edge > Guard), draft investment, and expected starters and reserves.

Quote [06:30]:
Host 1 (Pain): “The Texans... have been number one in this exercise the last three times they've done it... they are still number two on this list... behind the New England Patriots.”

• Schatz's “blue chip” core for Texans: Will Anderson, CJ Stroud, Kamari Lasseter, Ariante Ursary.

Debating the Omissions and “Blue Chip” List

• Hosts dispute Kalen Bullock's omission from the Texans' blue-chip under-25 core.
  • [07:57] Host 2: “He’s 23. I'd have just turned 23 in April.”
  • [08:38] Host 1: “On this very website, espn.com, Kaylin Bullock was rated... the 10th best safety in football.”

Patriots and Bears Comparisons

• Patriots are #1 due to their own strong under-25 group, led by Drake Maye.
• Bears listed at #3 with Colston Loveland, Rome Odunze, Caleb Williams.
• Hosts note that Houston’s current ranking is heavily bolstered by having a young top-tier quarterback and edge rusher.

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The C.J. Stroud Factor and Changing Perceptions

• [12:03] The shift in C.J. Stroud’s reputation impacts Houston’s ranking.
  • Host 2: “I also feel like CJ and the opinion on him going the other direction is the reason why they're not [#1]... If CJ is still viewed today the way he was viewed by the end of the 2023 season... they have a chance to maybe be number one.”

Quote [12:52]: Host 2: “All of that goes together... Both the quarterbacks are part of this group of players. They're dictating that grade.”

• Hosts agree that if 2023 CJ Stroud had shown up in last year's playoffs, the Texans could have displaced the Patriots and possibly made the Super Bowl.

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Nick Caserio’s Job Security and Strengths as Texans GM

Caserio’s Track Record: Hits and Misses

• [14:06] Host 2 (Pendergast): “The best thing that I thought that he does is draft. And... the worst thing that he's done is draft specifically offensive linemen.”

Quote [16:49]:
Host 1 (Pain): “I think the chances of improving over him are... small. Like I think he's done a good job overall...”

• Hosts credit Caserio for strong defensive picks, particularly Stingley and Petrie, selected before DeMeco Ryans joined the Texans.

Is Caserio on the Hot Seat?

• Afternoon hosts suggest Caserio deserves as much scrutiny as Stroud.
  • Payne pushes back: “Barring a complete monumental collapse... Nick Caserio is going to be the general manager in 2027. I would bet a lot of money on that.”
• Host 2 argues the only period Caserio was truly on the hot seat was going into 2023, before D'Amico Ryans and the successful picks of Stroud and Anderson Jr.

Quote [17:16]:
Host 2: “The team was a legitimate last season, a legitimate super bowl contender. Even with the offense being a bit of a mess.”

• Consensus: Caserio isn’t perfect, but has earned job security unless there's a catastrophic collapse or he wants out.

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Final Thoughts and Investment Angle

• [18:08] Host 1 teases an upcoming segment on potential “investment opportunities” with the Texans (not covered in this summary).
• Hosts reinforce the idea that Houston's young core, especially under Caserio, is among the NFL’s most promising—even if future years’ rankings will drop as Stroud and Anderson age out.

---

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• [04:57] Host 2 (Pendergast): “It's yielded CJ, Will, Tank—who we can put to the side but also acknowledge. And then of course, Kamari Lassiter and Kalen Bullock.”
• [06:31] Host 1 (Pain): “That's a great way to put it. Yes. The importance of the positions...If you have young quarterbacks or edge rushers, that counts more than if you have a young guard.”
• [08:38] Host 1 (Pain): “On this very website... Kaylin Bullock was rated... the 10th best safety in football.”
• [12:03] Host 2 (Pendergast): “I... feel like CJ and the opinion on him going the other direction is the reason why they're not [#1]...”
• [14:06] Host 2 (Pendergast): “He is a big reason why this young core and this team overall is as solid as it is. Yep.”
• [16:49] Host 1 (Pain): “I think the chances are, the chances of improving over him... are... I think small.”
• [17:16] Host 2 (Pendergast): “The team was a legitimate... super bowl contender. Even with the offense being a bit of a mess.”

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Key Takeaways

• The Texans have the NFL’s second-best under-25 core, primarily because of CJ Stroud and Will Anderson Jr.
• ESPN/Aaron Schatz’s methodology emphasizes not just young talent, but impact at premium positions and contract value.
• Kalen Bullock’s omission as a “blue chip” is viewed as a clear oversight by both hosts.
• Nick Caserio is seen as a strong drafter overall, with the offensive line being the exception.
• Despite some local talk-show skepticism, the hosts argue Caserio’s seat isn't truly "hot" given the team’s recent trajectory.
• The overall optimism around the Texans’ young core is high, but expectations for future rankings are tempered as top contributors soon age out of “under-25” status.

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For Houston fans and NFL observers, this episode provides clear, in-depth perspective on where the Texans stand in the league’s youth movement—blending analytics, front-office analysis, and boots-on-the-ground radio banter.

Transcript

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[Host 1 (Pain)]

Sports Radio 610 presents Pain and pender gas. Appreciate all the texts rolling in, all the congratulatory texts over the the, the big announcement yesterday. So yeah, 713-57246 10 Swords Radio 610 is becoming 95. 7 the fan. Lot of people weighing in. Been listening in Huntsville from day one. I made this clear. My favorite text today are the people who are listening in parts of town where the signal has been admittedly a little bit sketchy.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Yeah, it's a challenge.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Yeah, for sure it's a challenge.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Maybe even a chore to listen. And we don't want it to be. We want you to listen.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Yep.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

We don't want to make it a chore for you to do.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

So I want to make sure to mention one other thing too because we've had a few of these techs. Super excited for you guys. Moving over to 95. 7. That's great news. Not going to lie. A little sad that I'm losing the spot. Yeah, 95. 7. And there's probably people that feel that way. Look, the Spot's got a huge listenership, and we're hoping to. To retain all of that listenership. Obviously, I do want to say, you know, shout out Grego, who has been the voice of the Spot for the last several years, you know, long time. And Grego is a hall of famer who's been doing it in Houston for decades.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

A titan in the industry, no doubt,

[Host 1 (Pain)]

and a great dude. And sent me a really nice text the day yesterday as the announcement got made. Yeah, really nice text. And he's a friend. I just, you know, want to shout him out and wish him the best of luck. And he's really good at what he does. And whatever the next venture is, I know it'll be a firm landing on his feet for Greg.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

It's worth mentioning not just because Grego is such a nice guy and a friend and somebody that we know personally, but as I mentioned, a titan in the industry as well respected as anybody that we have in this building. And so I point that out just to say we do have big shoes to fill. It was. This was pointed out when we were having our meeting, our staff only meeting a couple of days ago, but our boss, Sarah, mentioned that a lot of times when this happens, you're flipping an FM station that is struggling that you're trying to get out of the mud that you're trying to actually fix. Yeah, we're not here to fix anything. And shout out to the company for taking this risk on us. This is a risky proposition because the Spot is already a successful station. They already got a good thing going and they believe in us to do another good thing. But a big part of that good thing is not just because they play really good music over there, but because Grego is such a great and has been such a great steward of that station.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

There's a reason he's been doing it for a long time, man. No question.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Yes.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

All right, so the Houston Texans. I would just ask you, B. Scott, how do you feel about the young core of the Houston Texans? The young. The gaggle of young players that they've assembled over the last. Call it, four draft, three or four drafts. You know, going back to. I guess at this point, I would say going back to, like, the CJ and Will draft.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Oh, and see, I would go the year before with Stingley.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Well, for purposes of this conversation, some of these guys have graduated.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

They're not young anymore.

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[Host 1 (Pain)]

This is the exercise we're about. No, it's the. The under 25 year old.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Okay. So that.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

That Stingley's graduated.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Yeah, that would take a couple of guys out. I still feel pretty solid.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Probably Petrie's out of that too.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

I don't think. Yeah. Because he would be that same draft

[Host 1 (Pain)]

all his years at Baylor.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

He didn't leave early or anything.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Right, right. So. So, yeah, that.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

So we're talking about guys in that CJ and Will draft. You know, Tank was in that draft. Of course, Tank hasn't played football in a couple of years.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

I mean, it's yielded CJ Will Tank who we can put to the side but also acknowledge. And then of course, Kamari Lasseter and Kalen Bullock.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Mari Lasseter, Kalin Bullock. I guess if we were to throw. If you know, how do you feel about Ariante Ursary?

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

He's got to be in the mix.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

How do you feel about the two young receivers they took out of Iowa State? Yeah, you know, we. We hope that Kate Stover turns. I think cade's still under 25. That he turns into something.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Woody Marks is in his second year, but he might be over this 25

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Mark played a lot of years. He played more years in college than you think.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Yeah, I think he's. I think he might be older than C.J. i think.

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[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Or right around the same age.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

But either CJ turns 25 in season sometime. I want to say like October.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

But for. But I say all this. The reason I'm. The reason I'm bringing this up.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Love the core.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

The reason I'm bringing this up. Yeah. Is Aaron Shatz, formerly of Football outsiders, now of ESPN.com he's sort of the godfather of DVOA. Like the efficiency stat, which I love. And he's. So he works for ESPN.com right now. This. He. He by this standard. Okay. He created rankings of teams and their young core. The under 25 year old players on the rosters. Yeah. Number of starts made by players under 25, number of snaps played by players under 25. Quality of play by those players under 25. Obviously value and length of their contracts. You know, so I'd imagine like Will Anderson Jr. Probably became a. A little less valuable with signing that extension. Not because he's not an ascending player still, but he costs more.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Now you're paying sticker price for Will.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

That's a great way to put it. Yes. The importance of the positions. You know, if you have young quarterbacks or edge rushers, that counts more than if you have a young guard. Let's say draft value added in the, the first three rounds expected key starters and reserves are factored into all this. Well, I say all this to say that the Texans who have been number one in this exercise the last three times they've done it. Okay, so this is the fourth time if we're, you know, if we're looking at. I mean this is in some ways this is a report card on Nick Casario.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

It is.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

They are still number two on this list. They are number two behind the New England Patriots whose blue they. He divides this chat does into. He lists the, what he calls the blue chip players on the team and then he has notable graduated players which are guys who are, were factoring into the rankings but are no longer like Stingley's one of those guys. Henry Towa Toa is one of those guys. He was on this list last year. He doesn't factor in anymore because he's no longer under 25 years old. The blue chippers for the Texans and I gotta go look up Kaylin Bullock's age now because he's not one of them but ariante Ursary is. Four of them, Will Anderson, CJ Stroud, Kamari Lasseter, Ariante Ursary are the four blue chip under 25 year old players.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Dare I say that Aaron Shots has just forgotten all about Kalen Bullock.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Caleb, there's no way he's 25.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

He's 23.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

He's 23.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

He's23. I'd have just turned 23 in April.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

I would have him. I would have him. I would add him to the list. Like if I had to replace somebody, I'd obviously replace Ursary. I know there's going to be people saying replace cj. He's, he's a bum or whatever. Like no CJ belongs to.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Does it work that way? Can you just add that? I mean I don't think.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Well, the Patriots only had three. The Texans have four under blue chippers for each of these teams.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Fair enough.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Yeah. So he's just, you know, the Bears are number three on the list. They've got three guys. Colston Loveland, Roma Dunes A. Caleb Williams.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

I feel like if you make a Pro bowl before 25 you should be considered a blue chip.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Absolutely you should.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

In your second. It was his second season last year.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Second season.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Yeah. That's pretty good. That's. Is that not good?

[Host 1 (Pain)]

No.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Well and worthy.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Take it a step further. On this very website, espn.com Kaylin Bullock was rated by by people who know things. Front office coordinators, coaches, scouts was rated the 10th best safety in football.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Yeah. And I love Henry, but if Henry was on there last year, then Kaylin should be on there this year.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Yeah. Yeah. What gets interesting is, is next year, when I. While you're on Google there, how old is Will? Is Will. Does he age off of this thing?

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

2001. Two, I believe.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

I feel like Will is probably on the verge of aging out of this thing.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Yeah, he's a September 2001 baby. So he is 24. He turns 25 September 2nd.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Okay. And CJ, I think, turns 25.

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[Lloyd Lockridge]

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[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

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[Host 1 (Pain)]

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[Host 1 (Pain)]

October. So that's. That's what gets interesting to me. B. Scott is. Yeah, I mean, C.J. and Will kind of smash the curve for you on this exercise. You know, in terms of what. I know, cj. You know, look, every day CJ is a topic on our airwaves here. Is he gonna. Is he gonna revert back to what he used to be? How real was the New England game? I know CJ's been very uneven. He's still a good starting quarterback in the NFL. That is gonna Skew a subjective ranking like this Will. And Will is really gonna skew it. I mean, he's the second best defensive player in football. How good, how good are the young classes they've put together? Especially those two classes in 2024 and 2025 in which they didn't have a first round pick. You know that you're talking. But degrade in the second round. You know, they, you know, they got Higgins in the second round. They got Kamar Lasseter in the second round. Blake Fisher has not worked out, but whatever. That's what'll get interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they, so they've done some good things in the second round. I feel confident in saying they're not going to be number two when they do this exercise next year. Yeah, it's funny because edge rusher and quarterback are going to age off of this thing. So how good are these last two or three classes?

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Yeah, so before that, on the CJ Point, I, I actually thought about him being the reason why. And I hate to do this because it feels like we're just crapping on CJ for no reason, but I also feel like CJ and the opinion on him going the other direction is the reason why they're not. Think about it. If CJ Is still viewed today the way he was viewed by the end of the 2023 season, I feel like they're. They have a chance to maybe even be number one now. Of course, the Patriots, which, yeah, they went to the super bowl last year. I get it.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

And they have Drake May, who's under

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

25 years old, but CJ would be right there with Drake May if he was still viewed in that way. So I think that's part of the, part of the reason why I think that they're not one anymore is because the opinion on CJ has slightly changed the other direction as well.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

If CJ if it's that CJ that you're getting. They beat the Patriots in the playoffs last year.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

That's a great point.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Those two Patriots are one.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

All of that goes together.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Houston Texans are two.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Both the quarterbacks are part of this group of players. They're dictating that grade.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

The same conversation.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

If you just flip, I think, I think Texans are in the super bowl last year. If you have 20, 23, CJ Stroud playing new England and then playing Denver the next week, easily. Hell, if you, if you got, if you got rookie. If you got rookie C.J. stroud and you got him over the course of the season, you're probably not a five seed.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Yeah. Cause I was going to say, Sean,

[Host 1 (Pain)]

if you're getting a home game in

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

the divisional route, if you got year three regular season, C.J. stroud in the postseason, yeah, there's a, probably a difference there. Now, I don't think the opinion on him is as high because the numbers just weren't there. Yeah, but, but to that point, I think you, yeah, you probably, you probably won the game even with that.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Yep.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

So. But, but to your point, this does go down quite a bit once CJ Stroud and Will Anderson are off the list. No doubt about that. But I still think it is a. Worth a tip of the cap to Nick Casario, who I've said for a long time the best thing that I thought that he does is draft. And, and I think objectively the worst thing that he's done is draft specifically offensive linemen.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Yeah, but there's no argument there.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

But he's drafted more than offensive linemen and he is a big reason why this young core and this team overall is as solid as it is. Yep.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

Yep.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Yeah, I was listening to the guys in the afternoon yesterday and I think they're, they're, they, they have a, I don't say a lower opinion of, I mean, I guess it is a lower opinion of Nick than, than, than, than I do. Than we do. You know, they, and, and they're certainly entitled to their opinion and they make good arguments for their opinion and whatnot. But they, to the extent that they said that Nick should be under just as much scrutiny and hot seat as CJ Stroud is right now, and I don't know that I agree with that from. First of all, I don't think his seat is to that level of hot. I, like, I don't think, I think there's barring a complete monumental collapse and like maybe this entire, the last two drafts just collapsing the draft classes or if he doesn't want to be here anymore, and I don't think that's the case. Nick Casario is going to be the general manager in 2027. I would bet a lot of money on that. So I. Where are you on that? Like how, how. Maybe not hot seat, but like what, what's your temperature on Casario right now and just how much scrutiny he should be on?

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Yeah, he hasn't been under a hot seat, at least in my view, since going into the 2023 season when they first brought in D' Amico Ryan's, and

[Host 1 (Pain)]

you just didn't know how that was going to work. Maybe.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Exactly. But literally ever since then. And if you want to make the argument, I'm fine with this argument that the combination of D', Amico, Ryan's and C.J. stroud and Will Anderson Jr. Saved Nick Kasario's job and his backside, I'm fine with that argument. I think the biggest Nick Kasario criticism is the one that I just mentioned and it is the thing that is still something that the Texans have to prove and it's the biggest ESPN actually Ben Solak did this a couple of days ago. The biggest training camp storylines and one of the big unanswered questions and one of the biggest storylines going into camp league wide, not just for the Texans, but league wide is the Texans offensive line. So I think he still has to answer for that. I think the offensive line still has a lot to prove and by proxy so does Nick Casario and proven that he can put together a functional offensive line. That part is problematic. And if you want to be a single issue voter on that and focus specifically on that, I'm not mad at you because that does 100% have to get better. But I don't view that one fatal flaw. I guess I don't. I view it as a flaw but not necessarily a fatal flaw that would cost him his job.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

I think you're taking a big risk if you were to, if you were to let him go. Like, like I, I think the chances are, the chances of improving over him.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Are, are. I think small. Like I think he's done a good job overall. Like the offensive line, that's been a problem. No question about that. But he, you know, and Nick would be the first to say it's a collaborative effort with d'. Amico. He'd be the first to say that. But the picks that have been made on the defensive side of Ball, I think Extingley and Petrie were both selected before d'. Ameco. Ryan's was even a gleam in the Texan's eye.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

As a head coach, I mean the

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

team was a legitimate last season, a legitimate super bowl contender. Even with the offense being a bit of a mess. Yeah, they're going into this year. And as a legitimate super bowl contender, even with all of these questions that we have about the offense, I don't know how you could really want to fire that.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

I do. If the offense is still a huge problem and like it was the biggest problem in the playoffs, then, you know, then I will grant you, like the temperature does get turned up, but I don't Think it gets turned up, you know, unless they go, you know, 7 and 10 and the offense was the problem or something like that, you know. Cause the floor on this team with this defense should be nine wins in my opinion. Yeah.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

And even seven and ten, they just had three back to back to back.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

I'm with you.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Double digit winning seasons where they won a playoff game in each season. Even if you want, for whatever reason, don't like somebody, it's going to be hard to justify firing the whoever's at the top of that.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

Yeah, I just think it's, it's, it's not, there's not a great chance you find somebody who's going to do a better job than he's done. All right. Painting pender gas with you. All right. I think there's an opportunity for there to be money made with the Texans. Am I looking at this through battle? Red glasses right now. I'm going to bounce these off of B. Scott numbers. We're going to investment opportunities for you guys out there. We'll do that.

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[Host 1 (Pain)]

It was a mansion.

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And with three times the points on dining, we ordered a wagyu steak dinner.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

And that pistachio gelato was too good.

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So where should we go next year?

[Host 1 (Pain)]

I've got ideas.

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[Host 1 (Pain)]

Try angel stuff for your tushy. It's made by Angels. Soft and Strong. Budget friendly. The choice is simple.

[Host 2 (Pendergas)]

Pick up a pack today.

[Host 1 (Pain)]

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the podcast Campus Files is back with more stories of scandal, crime and intrigue on college campuses.

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It is not hard to destroy a college.

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It's almost like a university under siege.

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Listen to and follow Campus Files available now wherever you get your podcasts.