Top 25 Under 25 - Which Texans Made It? Were There Any Notable Snubs?

Summary

PAYNE & PENDERGAST – EPISODE SUMMARY
Top 25 Under 25 – Which Texans Made It? Were There Any Notable Snubs?
Date: July 9, 2026
Guest Host: Luke Morrow (filling in for Sean), with regular co-host Seth Payne (referred to as Ben in the transcript)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Payne & Pendergast dives into CBS Sports' newly released list: the Top 25 NFL players under the age of 25. Luke Morrow (filling in for Sean) and Seth Payne (Ben) dissect where notable Houston Texans landed, debate the fairness of certain rankings—especially for Will Anderson Jr. and Derek Stingley Jr.—and discuss which young Texans might’ve been snubbed. Mixed with their trademark banter and insider football analysis, the hosts reflect on league-wide perceptions and whether Houston athletes still face national underappreciation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction & Context to the CBS List

• [02:47] Luke introduces the premise: evaluating CBS Sports' top 25 NFL players aged 25 and under.
• The list is meant to highlight "the best 25 players in the NFL that are currently 25 and younger for this upcoming year."
• Hosts acknowledge it's subjective—either one person's or one publication's perspective.

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2. Texans in the Top 25: Surprises and Grievances

Will Anderson Jr.:

• Ranked #6 overall on the CBS list.
• Luke is surprised Anderson isn’t higher given "we just went over the ESPN list where they ranked him third overall in the entire league. Regardless of age." ([05:22])
• Ben/Seth echoes:

  "It's hard to get too overly PO'd that Will Anderson isn't higher ... I feel like Will Anderson almost gets dinged for playing at a really high level for multiple years." ([05:59])

• The hosts question whether Anderson is marked down because of sustained excellence—contrasting with players having standout rookie years.

Derek Stingley Jr.:

• Slotted at #16 on the list.
• Ben strongly feels Stingley's underranked:

  “He's one of the two best players in his position ... I feel like he's getting dinged, if anything, because he's older than Christian Gonzalez or ... he's not as much of the young and upcoming guy. He's just, he's an established, high quality player.” ([04:20])

• Noted that both Christian Gonzalez and Devon Witherspoon rank above Stingley, though the hosts consider Stingley among the league’s best cornerbacks.

The “Excitement vs. Achievement” Factor:

• Ben raises that the CBS list might be celebrating flashier, newer breakouts:

  "It feels like they were more... the most exciting and fastest risers under the age of 25, because Derek Stingley and Will Anderson are almost getting penalized for having done it longer than some of these guys who did it for one year." ([05:59])

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3. Quarterback Rankings and the C.J. Stroud Omission

• Jaden Daniels (#8), Caleb Williams (#7), and Drake Maye (#4) all appear—but no C.J. Stroud, despite being under 25.
• Luke questions if this is a snub:

  “Does that seem like an omission at all or no?” ([07:09])

• Ben replies:

  “No, because you're including all... all positions, potential positions here… that's where we are with that right now.” ([07:36])

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4. List Mechanics: Scrolling, Monetization, & Media Habits

• Luke and Ben riff on the frustrating formatting of lists, whose design often prioritizes earning more ad impressions by forcing readers to scroll.
• Ben:

  "I respect the game ... they're trying to make money the old fashioned way on an actual website ... keep you on that page as long as possible." ([08:22])

• Both praise ESPN’s clickable chapter system for quickly navigating to your team. ([09:10])

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5. Kamari Lassiter – A Notable Texans Snub?

• CBS lists ten "just missed" players; Kamari Lassiter not among the top 35.
• Ben contends that Lassiter is overlooked:

  “That feels like an omission... I think there's always going to be a perception that Kamari Lassiter is... getting either extra help or it's just easier to play when in fact it's harder to play opposite a guy like that [Stingley] because people are going to target you and they're going to test you. And they've done that the last couple of years and he's, he's risen to the challenge.” ([10:55])

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6. Is There Still Houston Disrespect?

• Luke asks if Texans are rated lower due to a national bias against Houston athletes.
• Ben disagrees:

  "No, I don't think that. No, I don't. Because for one, at least in the NFL, I just don't... think it operates that, that way as much anymore." ([12:34])

• He points out that players like C.J. Stroud and the Houston defense got major attention during the last playoffs:

  “…People wouldn't shut up about this Texans defense and all their players headed into the postseason. It was probably one of the biggest talking points in any NFL programming during the playoffs..." ([13:00])

• The only consistent bias is for marquee franchises (Packers, Giants, Cowboys), but Ben doesn’t see it severely affecting Houston anymore.
• Luke (and Ben) agree: the vast visibility of the NFL, combined with fantasy football and social media, elevates the best players’ national profiles regardless of market size. ([14:04])

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7. Fantasy Football & Video Game Fame

• Ben notes Houston players (e.g., Arian Foster, Matt Schaub) became "fantasy football celebrities" before their teams were even championship contenders, boosting their reputations. ([14:33])
• The two share a lighter moment about old NFL video games—ESPN 2K5 and Madden—recalling that even role players could become cult-favorite picks among fans. ([16:13–17:37])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the CBS List’s flaws:
  “If you're doing a list of the Top guys under 25, it feels like they were more. They should have renamed it something like the most Exciting and fastest risers under the age of 25.”—Ben ([05:59])
• On Will Anderson's ranking:
  “I think Will Anderson is higher on the list of defensive ends than Drake May is on quarterbacks.”—Luke ([05:22])
• On Derek Stingley being undervalued:
  “He's an established, high quality player.”—Ben ([04:20])
• On Houston's current reputation:
  “I don't, I don't think it matters as much as it used to.”—Ben ([13:00])
• On NFL player fame in Houston:
  “Go ahead and find anybody who thought J.J. watt was somehow ignored by the national media when he was winning his three defensive MVPs. They talked about him a lot.”—Ben ([15:29])
• On fantasy football's influence:
  “Arian Foster was a celebrity before the Texans even actually really turned the corner in 2011… because he was just such a fantasy football stud.”—Ben ([14:33])

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Important Segments & Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:47 | Introduction to CBS Sports' Top 25 Under 25 list | | 03:39 | Will Anderson Jr. – #6 ranking discussion | | 04:20 | Derek Stingley Jr.’s #16 rank and cornerback debates | | 05:59 | General critique: excitement vs. sustained excellence in rankings | | 07:09 | Jaden Daniels (#8), Caleb Williams (#7), Drake Maye (#4), and QB analysis | | 08:00 | List mechanics and ESPN's chapter system | | 10:55 | Kamari Lassiter "snub" and discussion of cornerback value | | 12:15 | Is “Houston disrespect” still a thing? | | 14:33 | Fantasy football's effect on player reputation | | 16:13 | NFL video game memories—Texan players’ cult status |

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, direct, and occasionally playful.
• Willing to challenge mainstream narratives but rooted in specific football insights and Houston expertise.
• Occasional nostalgic asides, especially regarding fantasy football and video games.

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Final Takeaway

Payne & Pendergast offer a thorough, critical look at NFL under-25 rankings, advocating strongly for Texans stars Will Anderson Jr. and Derek Stingley Jr., and rebuffing any idea of ongoing national hostility toward Houston's top talents. The episode is essential listening for Houston fans—balancing serious football analysis with relatable asides and a finger always on the pulse of H-Town sports culture.

Transcript

[Ben]

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[Luke Morrow]

Who are the best young stars currently in the NFL? We'll talk about it. Payne and Pendergast here. I'm Luke Morrow, filling in for Sean alongside Seth. You can always Text the show 713-572-4610 get to us on the YouTube or Twitch chats I had saw earlier, Bonnie Tyler's name was trending. I didn't look into why, but then I just saw in the YouTube chat they mentioned it Rest in peace to Bonnie Tyler, who. Who passed away apparently at 75 today. And she had the number one hit in the 80s, total eclipse of the Heart, which.

[Ben]

Oh, okay.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, that's who that is. And holding out for a hero. Oh, there you go.

[Ben]

She's big in Footloose, huh? Yeah. Was that in Footloose, Ben? Yes, the original Footloose. Okay. How old was she?

[Luke Morrow]

75.

[Ben]

Oh, that's too early.

[Luke Morrow]

And I had no idea that she was Welsh. I just always assumed she was American. I didn't know. But yeah, she had some jams in the 80s. And total eclipse of the Heart of course gained additional popularity when it was used in old school. Right. And that guy is great in old school. The singer who does that in all the movies where he sings songs inappropriately, the Dan Band. That guy's pretty good.

[Ben]

Yeah, but he still lives. That's the real tragedy here.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He gets to continue to do the song. But unfortunately Bonnie Tyler has passed away at 75. So there's the big news of the morning. This is the time of year for these ranks, rankings and lists. And CBS Sports put out one where they ranked the NFL's top 25 players aged 25 and under for the upcoming season. So who are the best 25 players in the NFL that are currently 25 and younger for this upcoming year? And there are some things that surprised me and stood out to me on this list. Now of course it's, you know, it's one person's opinion, I don't think. Or maybe it was a group of writers, but what, whatever. It's one publications opinion. But when you look at the bottom of the list. Hold on, I'm on the wrong end of the list. But Will Anderson Jr. Wound up number six on the list.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

And then ahead of him you have Jackson, Smith and Jigba. Drake May is four, Panay Sewells three, Puka Nakua, Nakua is two and Bijan Robinson's one. So it's a good top, top part of the list.

[Ben]

I'm. It was. It's hard to get too overly po'd that Will Anderson isn't higher on the list. I guess I just always say, hey man, it's been one year with that coordinator in that offense for Drake May. But you're also, when you're. He had, he had that incredible season. He did. I'm cool with it for now. I'm kind of amazed that Penne Sewell is only 25 years old because he was drafted in 2021. I didn't remember that young when he got drafted. But the biggest one, I was surprised that Bijan Robinson was number one overall. And I get it. But I was a little bit surprised by that. The one that I was upset about was that Derek Singley is 16th and he's one of the two best players in his position. But ahead of them, ahead of, ahead of Derek Singley, Christian Gonzalez and Devon Witherspoon, which, yeah, they're both really good. I would say Christian Gonzalez is the closest to Derek Stingley there. But I think it's, it's almost pretty much any cornerback ranking you look at right now. It's certain And Derek Stingley at number one and two. So to have two, not just one, but two guys ahead of him in this ranking, I feel like he's getting dinged, if anything, because he's, because he's, because he's older than Christian Gonzalez or for whatever reason that he's not as much of the young and upcoming guy. He's just, he's an established, high quality player.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah. You know, for me, it was really, honestly, when I looked at this list, my biggest takeaway or surprise was what we had just mentioned in passing was Will Anderson Jr. 6. And you referenced Drake May, who's fourth on the list, and that's fourth overall. Like, I think, I think that's a little high. I know he just went to the super bowl, but he didn't play all that great in the playoffs for the Patriots. And I like Drake maybe, but like, I think Will Anderson is better at his position. I mean, we just went over the ESPN list where they ranked him third overall in the entire league. Regardless of age. I think Will Anderson is higher on the list of defensive ends than Drake May is on quarterbacks.

[Ben]

Yeah, you know what, you're. You're exactly right though too, because even with Jackson, Smith and Jigba, who had an incredible season last year, it was, it was that. It's, it's one year so far. And like, I feel like Will Anderson almost gets dinged for playing at a really high level for multiple years. So. It does. If you're doing a list of the Top guys under 25, it feels like they were more. They should have renamed it something like the most Exciting and fastest risers under the age of 25. Because Derek Stingley and Will Anderson are almost getting penalized for having done it longer than some of these guys who did it for one year. Jaden freaking Daniels is right next to Will Anderson on this list. Yeah, Jaden Daniels is still riding that. Look, this is. Right. Jaden Daniels is lucky he got injured last year because basically when he was on the field, he looked like he was going to have a year. A lot like C.J. stroud's second season. But because he was injured a bunch, they, they just. People are just kind of rolling along and be like, well, we got to see he had a really good rookie year. When was that? That was two years ago. But you know, injuries and whatnot, like, all right, no, I'm not, I'm not giving him a stamp of authenticity yet based on his rookie year performance. When I've lived a similar situation not too long ago.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, I had picked him last off season as that Stroud candidate that would take a step back and now obviously injuries played a big role, but yeah, yeah, you need to, you need to see it sustained first. Speaking of quarterbacks, Jaden Daniels, like you said, number eight on the list, Caleb Williams, number seven. And then Drake May, number four. No CJ Stroud because he is under 25. No CJ Stroud on this list of top 25 players under 25. Does that seem like an omission at all or. No?

[Ben]

No, because you're including all, you know. Yeah, all positions, potential positions here. Yeah, that, that, yeah, it's, that's, that's where we are with that right now. I thought when I was looking, I was, did the same thing as you. I got really offended early on because I thought it was ranked higher to lower and I, and I saw that Cooper De Jean was above Derek Stingley, which I thought meant he was ranked higher, but no, he's actually ranked lower than, than Derek Stingley.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, that's when they, when, when websites and such make these lists, they have to make it a little more convenient. Like a lot of times, especially for the purposes of what we're doing here, you just want to see who's at the top of the list, but they start at number 25. And not only that, like there's a lot of blur, there's a lot of scrolling in this article. If I want to go down and be like, oh, who's the top five? I have to scroll for two minutes here.

[Ben]

I respect the game because look there, what you're talking about is a website that's still trying to make money the old fashioned way on an actual website. And they want you to be on that page as long as possible.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah.

[Ben]

So you got to be able to scroll down, scroll down, scroll down. I think websites themselves and actual blogs are like, from a financial standpoint, are making a little bit of a comeback because so many of these damn companies are using AI to write their articles.

[Luke Morrow]

Right.

[Ben]

Which, which I hate. And yet at the same time they're like, oh, okay, we can actually just spit this out for $0 and sell some advertising.

[Luke Morrow]

That's why I do like what ESPN does. Not that anyone really cares, but if you are somebody, a sports fan who reads a lot of stuff online, I like that ESPN will give almost like a chapter or whatever the top of the article where you could just click that link and it'll bring you right down to that portion.

[Ben]

Oh yeah, down to. Yeah. Especially in these listicle type things where they've got. They ranked 20 different teams that you can click on the top and then do.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, if you're only interested in the Texans, you just click Houston. It takes you right to that section instead of having to scroll. So I do appreciate that from ESPN.com they got that part right.

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[Luke Morrow]

They also listed on this list 10 players who barely miss. So that gives you 35 players under 25. Kamari Lassiter not mentioned amongst those top 35. Does that feel like underrating?

[Ben]

That feels like that, yes. That feels like an omission. Again, for a guy that, yeah, I know the Pro bowl doesn't matter as much as it used to, but he made a Pro bowl already and I think is going to have to deal with kind of being in Derek Stingley's shadow for as long as those two are on the same team together. I think because, because Derek Stingley is the guy that is like in terms of pure cover skills and everything, people just love looking at him as the guy who does the like. He's the ideal. Other than the health issues, he's the ideal cornerback in the way he operates that I think there's always going to be a perception that Kamari Lasseter is, you know, getting either extra help or it's just easier to play when in fact it's harder to play opposite a guy like that because people are going to target you and they're going to test you. And they've done that the last couple of years and he's, he's risen to the challenge. But there's, there's almost, there's almost like a glass ceiling that's keeping people from going all in on Kamari Lasseter because he's a little bit more of a. He doesn't fit that. He doesn't fit all those ideal parameters in terms of the, in terms of length, speed, one on one, coverability and everything. He's just a. I don't want to call him a unicorn. He's not that unique or anything, but he just excels in a lot of parts of the game that people don't value as highly, but that make him a really, really good football player.

[Luke Morrow]

Do you buy into this idea that came in on the Tech sign because obviously you played here for the Texans and you played, of course, even earlier right at the beginning of the franchise. Do you buy into the idea of like the, the disrespect for Houston athletes that the Texans are just always overlooked and that's why even as good as a Will Anderson is or Stingley is, they'll be underrated on types of lists like this?

[Ben]

No, I don't think that. No, I don't. Because for one, at least in the NFL, I just don't. I don't think it operates that, that way as much anymore. And I say that while also thinking that that's a little bit of Daniel Hunter. The fact that like, if, if Danielle Hunter had played for a team like a New York team, or if he'd played for the packers or something, then I think you'd probably have more notoriety. So it's still somewhat of a factor. But if we look at, I mean, this defense, people wouldn't shut up about this Texans defense and all their players headed into the postseason. It was probably one of the biggest talking points in any NFL programming during the playoffs was how much people loved the defense. And so that part of it. And if you look at C.J. stroud, the national, the amount of adulation that C.J. stroud got was kind of alarming after his rookie year, to the point where people would accuse guys like us of being overly negative or something if we were like saying like, this feels like a bit much right now. So, no, I don't buy into it. I don't think, I don't think you have to. Houston's like, it's, it's not going to be like the packers or the Raiders or the Giants or the Cowboys or One of those teams that just always gets attention no matter what. But it's not like the, I think really like the Bills until the last few years, the Jaguars ever. You know, like, the Jaguars are. The Jaguars get really under discussed when they have a good team, the AFC south in general a little bit, but I just don't. I don't think it matters as much as it used to.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, yeah, I can see that it's become such a. I mean, there's the NFL Network and everything's discussed and like, I think. I think the whole league at this point, like the good enough players or the big enough stories get covered somewhere or continually because there is. There's just so many outlets and so many people are covering it. It's become such a big. Such a big sport and such a big thing. It's not like, you know, I hear from my. My father, my uncles growing up where it's like, hey, we had two channels and it was just whatever team was on, that's all we could watch and we didn't know what was going on. You know, it's obviously, it's so.

[Ben]

So, yeah, ever since fantasy football got so big, I think it started to change a lot of sports. You know, like, Arian Foster is a perfect example of. It was a. Was a celebrity before the, The Texans even actually really turned the corner in 2011. People knew who Arian Foster was partly because he was just such a fantasy football stud. And. Yeah, so it's. I don't, I don't worry about that. Like, guys getting ignored wholesale like they used to. Like Daniel Hunter. Okay. He's never. I don't get the sense that he ever wants any part of being a celebrity, so it doesn't really matter. But like, if. If he did, then it might be a little bit harder. But we also live in a city where J.J. watt, like, there's plenty of guys that like Aaron Donald. Aaron Donald is, you know, as like on the same level of notability in terms of what, Like, I still think JJ was a better. Like, JJ at his peak was a better defensive. Defensive lineman than Aaron Donald. But Aaron Donald is like right there in the same conversation. Like, JJ is a much bigger star despite having played at Houston Just because J.J. alex put a little bit of work into being a star too. You know, like, it was J.J. watt. Go ahead and find anybody who thought J.J. watt was somehow ignored by the national media when he was winning his three defensive MVPs. They talked about him a lot.

[Luke Morrow]

Right? Right.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

I think your fantasy points a Good one, because I think Matt Schaub's another guy who had his profile elevated by fantasy. I had a college roommate who would draft Shop every year because, you know, he would throw for yards and touchdowns and share some interceptions, some pick sixes along the way. But some fantasy players that at least I was playing with always love shop because he'd get you some points. He would be held in higher regard in fantasy than maybe in, in the real world.

[Ben]

That's one thing that you appreciate as you get older. Myself, every now and then I run into somebody who like, used to play me on like either on Madden or on some defunct NFL game that doesn't exist anymore. And it's always cool to. It's a, it's actually really enjoyable to hear people like, tell us, say, say nice things about you related to a video game or fantasy football. You know, like, I didn't play a fantasy football position. But I think it's that same dynamic when you're, when you're, when you're in your 40s and some random guy in a grocery store says, like, oh, you used to hit this spin move. It was incredible. I used you all the time on NFL, whatever it was.

[Luke Morrow]

Right.

[Ben]

What are some of the defunct NFL video games?

[Luke Morrow]

Well, yeah, not to fanboy, but for me it was ESPN A2K5, which that's what it was. I thought was better than Madden back then. And I, even though I was growing up and living in Connecticut.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

For some reason I would do franchises or dynasties with the Texans and I would, I would actually play as you because I was. I'm always a down lineman. I don't play as the cornerbacks or anybody.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

And so, yeah, 21 years ago I'd play ESPN2K5.

[Ben]

I think for whatever reason there was some kind of glitch in their programming where I was like unstoppable somehow. If you had, if you use the, if you use the certain move. Because multiple people have told me that it's never been anything has been. I've never been overrated in my Madden ratings or anything. So I must be ESPN. Can we bring back ESPN 2K5?

[Luke Morrow]

Yes, please. Those are great games. Better than Madden at the time. I'll stand by that. And loved playing with the Texans back then. Coming up, we'll catch up with the fellas from in the Loop and find out the question of the day. But also, should the Astros actually be buyers at this point? You can let us know in the text. I will talk pain and pender.

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