Which Seems More Catty? The WNBA or the USMNT?

Summary

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Payne & Pendergast — Episode Summary

Episode: Which Seems More Catty? The WNBA or the USMNT?
Date: July 9, 2026
Hosts: Seth Payne (with Luke Morrow filling in for Sean Pendergast)
Main Theme:
A sharp, lively debate contrasting the "cattiness" in the WNBA, particularly regarding star Caitlin Clark, versus the U.S. Men's National Soccer Team's internal drama, all through the lens of recent controversies, public perception, and media response.

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Overview

The episode dives into the “catty” dynamics inside two high-profile American sports settings:

• The WNBA’s controversial treatment of Caitlin Clark, including All-Star voting snubs and player attitudes.
• Lingering drama and finger-pointing around U.S. Men’s National Team stars, focusing on both ex-players’ criticism of Christian Pulisic and the players’ clap-back at critics.
  Payne and Morrow keep the tone sharp, irreverent, and conversational, mixing stats and opinion with both insider and outsider perspectives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Caitlin Clark & WNBA Controversy

[01:30–05:27]

• Clark’s Impact:
  Clark has revolutionized the league’s visibility. TV ratings, attendance, and marketability all surged after her arrival.
  • “She’s their Michael Jordan...teams sometimes will have to move their games to larger stadiums to sell enough tickets. She’s their Michael Jordan.” — Luke Morrow, [05:27]
• All-Star Voting Drama:
  Despite being first/second in fan and media votes, Clark was ranked 11th by WNBA players in the All-Star voting, a clear slight.
  • “To have just that big a gap...this is a level of vitriol that’s just different than we’ve seen in other sports.” — Sports Analyst 1, [03:51]
  • Candace Parker’s take:
    • “I wholeheartedly believe that there needs to be some rules with the WNBA players because this is getting out of hand...That’s crazy. I think people need to look at themselves in the mirror and realize, like, man, you got some insecurities. If you sitting down and putting Caitlyn Clark as the 11th best guard.” — Candace Parker, [03:24]
    • “Y’all need to go to a therapist and figure out what childhood issues you have.” — Candace Parker, [03:46]
• Media and Fan Perception vs. Player Behavior:
  While fans and media celebrate Clark’s presence, WNBA players show open resentment, both on and off the court.
• Broader League Implications:
  • The league is benefiting financially and in visibility, primarily due to Clark, yet the on-court hostility and All-Star snubs persist.
    • “You got to acknowledge that, all right? Yeah, but they’re...okay I’m gonna knock him down to third instead of second or whatever on the ballot. But to...have just that big a gap...is a level of vitriol...different than we’ve seen.” — Sports Analyst 1, [03:51]
    • “I think the WNBA is worse because of just how undeniable it is that Caitlin Clark is so good and they’re trying to ignore that fact and just act like she’s some average end of the bench player.” — Luke Morrow, [09:30]

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2. U.S. Men’s National Team: Criticism and Clapback

[06:19–12:51]

• U.S. Soccer’s In-Fighting:
  • After another tournament disappointment, former stars like Landon Donovan and Tim Howard have gone public with firm critiques of Christian Pulisic’s performance and leadership.
  • Landon Donovan, speaking about Pulisic:
    • “He came out of a World Cup knockout at home with his leg still intact...You would have had to drag me off the field, and I would have punched the doctor in the face...” — Landon Donovan, [06:45]
• Current Stars Respond:
  • Pulisic and Timothy Weah criticize former stars-turned-pundits as inauthentic and disingenuous:
    • “Those guys are chasing checks. And for me, I just feel like they’re really evil, honestly. Because they’ve been players and they know what it’s like when you’re getting bashed...But quite frankly, the guys before us didn’t win anything either.” — Christian Pulisic, [08:40]
• Analysis from Hosts:
  • “Who’s cattier? US Men’s national team or the WNBA? I feel like...the US Men’s national team is a catty damn place, man. These guys just love sniping at each other.” — Sports Analyst 1, [09:01]
  • There’s a generational divide, with ex-players using their platforms to harshly critique, while current players bristle at criticism from figures “who never won anything.”

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3. Media, Politics, and the Wider Conversation

[13:41–14:33]

• Political Interference:
  News that 11 lawmakers had sent a letter to the WNBA over “multiple attacks on Caitlin Clark” prompted some eye-rolling.
  • “This is a genuine bipartisan take by me. I don’t like it when politicians get involved in sports...it’s just pure grandstanding.” — Sports Analyst 1, [13:54]
• Online & Cultural Spin:
  • Clark controversy compared to previous media phenomena like Tim Tebow.
    • “It feels too much like the Tebow stuff, where you try to have a conversation about Tim Tebow and all of a sudden there’s 9,900 people who aren’t even sports fans who are going to tell you exactly why Tim Tebow’s getting screwed over or whatever.” — Luke Morrow, [18:24]
• Text Line Engagement:
  • Audience weighed in, reinforcing that Clark’s impact isn’t about being “the best,” it’s about her marketability and influence:
    • “If you want to debate skill, that’s one thing, but I don’t think we can debate impact and the difference in the league once Caitlin Clark came into the WNBA. I think is undebatable.” — Luke Morrow, [14:33]

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4. Broader Sports Culture & Legacy

[15:55–18:56]

• Handling "Haters":
  • The hosts consider whether Clark’s polarizing effect is just part of being an all-time great.
    • The WNBA has never turned a profit; Clark’s presence is pushing the league in that direction for the first time:
      • “Let’s not forget the...WNBA never turned a profit, and I think still have not, but they’re moving in that direction. So, you know, it’s, it’s had a large impact. Her presence.” — Luke Morrow, [18:56]
  • The usual pattern (rookie gets loved, then resented) hasn’t played out for Clark—it was contentious from day one.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Candace Parker on WNBA Player Voting:
  • “Y’all need to go to a therapist and figure out what childhood issues you have.” [03:46]
• Landon Donovan on Pulisic’s Commitment:
  • “You would have had to drag me off the field, and I would have punched the doctor in the face...” [06:45]
• Christian Pulisic on Former Player Critics:
  • “They’re really evil, honestly...But quite frankly, the guys before us didn’t win anything either.” [08:40]
• Sports Analyst 1 on Catty Atmospheres:
  • “Who’s cattier? US Men’s national team or the WNBA? I feel like...the US Men’s national team is a catty damn place, man. These guys just love sniping at each other.” [09:01]
• Luke Morrow on Clark vs. the League:
  • “I think the discrepancy in like the reality and their fantasy world is so much larger...where in soccer I don’t have that same feeling of like, these people are just out of their minds.” [09:30]
• On Political Grandstanding:
  • “I don’t like it when politicians get involved in sports...it’s almost always just pure grandstanding.” — Sports Analyst 1, [13:54]

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• WNBA Caitlin Clark Snub Discussion: [01:30–05:27]
• Candace Parker’s Take: [03:24–03:51]
• USMNT Drama Analysis (Donovan/Howard vs. Pulisic): [06:19–09:01]
• Pulisic/Weah Respond to Critics: [08:26–09:01]
• Comparing WNBA vs. USMNT "Cattiness": [09:01–09:53]
• Clark’s Stats & Impact: [10:35–10:55]
• Lawmakers Get Involved: [13:41–14:33]
• Text Line/Listener Reactions: [14:33–15:56]
• Cultural Broad Strokes (Tebow, NBA analogies): [15:55–18:24]
• Legacy, League Profits, Big Picture: [18:56–End]

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Conclusion

This episode blends Houston-style sports talk with national conversations, nimbly dissecting sports culture and athlete drama. The primary takeaways:

• The WNBA’s handling of the Caitlin Clark phenomenon is unique in its player-driven pettiness and may ultimately be more damaging than the USMNT's internal spats.
• Both leagues are battling culture wars: WNBA players seem determined to “freeze out” their new star, while US soccer veterans and young stars bicker about legacy and effort.
• The hosts deliver strong, unfiltered opinions—with generous side helpings of humor and relatable analogies.

For fans of hot takes, behind-the-scenes dynamics, and straight talk, this episode is a must-listen.

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Transcript

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Today

[Luke Morrow]

there's one professional sports league that just continues to embarrass itself and we got to talk about it here on Pain and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow, in for Sean alongside Seth Payne. 713-572-4610 is the text line. You also can get to us in YouTube and Twitch as well. So I mean this has been going on for a while really since she entered the league. It's the whole Caitlin Clark thing in the wnba.

[Sports Analyst 1]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I like. Honestly, I don't try to keep up with whichever latest officiating controversy or anything there is about it. It's just, it. Honestly, it's, it's the level of. It's. I don't know if I've ever seen a dynamic like this where somebody comes in a league and is a huge deal and brings extra eyeballs and there's just such a. There's just such a, like either a hatred for or whatever it might be from the players in the league itself. Again, even if you go back to the old school NFL where rookies were bums and everything, it's still. It's Hard to make a direct comparison to that, but I don't think in any era of sports, it's been like this in any league, men's or women's. But the latest is that. That the All Star voting comes out, and Caitlin Clark is the 11th ranked point guard in the All Star voting. And. Or, excuse me, by the players. Yeah, players ranked her 11th. She's first and second in the fan and the media voting.

[Candace Parker]

Right.

[Boar's Head Narrator]

But.

[Sports Analyst 1]

But she's 11th when it comes to the player voting, which means that a lot of players just flat out left her off the ballot, too. Like, they just didn't even try to say she was as good as anybody else. And, like, look, I'm not a WNBA expert. Candace Parker is.

[Gin Hatmaker]

This is.

[Sports Analyst 1]

This is what. Candace Parker. Her message for people that for the players who ranked Caitlin Clark the 11th best guard.

[Candace Parker]

I wholeheartedly believe that there needs to be some rules with the WNBA players because this is getting out of hand. Caitlin Clark voted 11th best guard by WNBA players is. That's crazy. I think people need to look at themselves in the mirror and realize, like, man, you got some. You got some insecurities. If you sitting down and putting Caitlyn Clark as the 11th best guard.

[Luke Morrow]

Like, y'. All.

[Candace Parker]

Y' all need to go to a therapist and figure out what childhood issues you have.

[Sports Analyst 1]

Which is like, look, I'll start voting with the. The players is always a little bit dicey because people do have their personal allegiances and everything, but I feel like even if you're. Even if you hate somebody like you, you got to acknowledge that. All right? Yeah, but they're. Okay. I'm gonna. I. I'm gonna knock him down to third instead of second or whatever on the ballot. Like, to. Just to. To have just that big a gap. I don't think you need to. You don't need to. You don't need to break down the film or anything to realize, okay, boy, this is a. This is a level of vitriol that's just different than we've seen in other sports.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, it's pathetic. And if you can't take your league seriously, then I can't take it seriously. To Put Caitlin Clark 11th is a joke from those players. They put her ninth last year, so they got even worse this year. But it happened last year, too, where the players voted her ninth. And to your point, like, the fans and the media both put her at the top of the ballot. The players don't. It's. It's really embarrassing for the wnba or at least it should be. There's too many people that still I like, I was happy to hear that audio because there's still too many people in the WNBA world that don't really speak out on it. And I know he's not in the WNBA world, but we had that ridiculous piece of audio last week from Emmanuel Ocho of like the WNBA should just move on without Caitlin Clark. Like what are we doing here? It's.

[Tim Howard]

That's right.

[Sports Analyst 1]

He acted like that was a one time injection of energy and viewership and that yeah, now they're, now they've been put over. Then everything will be just fine with no Caitlin Clark just because now they're at it. Whereas meanwhile, no, like the top ranked games are all Indiana games and spiked when, when she's injured. It just plummets. All actual evidence is to the contrary of what Acho said.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, last I saw, ratings are 50% higher for Caitlin Clark games compared to the rest of the wnba. So it's still a big difference. I was from this season. And, and yeah, they move their games when she's on the road. Teams sometimes will have to move their games to larger stadiums to sell enough tickets. She's their Michael Jordan. And there's, it's this ridiculous idea of thinking that like get rid of Michael Jordan when he was the one that really helped. It's the high tide raises all boats. Like the reason why these players are making more money now. They should be bowing down and thanking Caitlin Clark because it's because of her. And yet they have this jealousy and they get physical with her on the court. They don't vote for her in the All Star Game. It's, it's really pretty sad where obviously you're not going to be thanking your competitor, but if we're being honest, like I said, she's a big reason why they have a lot of the perks that they now have from the last 12, from the last calendar year.

[Sports Analyst 1]

The other, the other big petty thing that I've been enjoying this week is the fallout from the US men's national team losing in the round of 16 because it feels like Landon Donovan has been on a personal mission to tear down Christian. Pulisic. Pulisic. Pulisic. And like this is just one of, this is one of many clips that I've seen from Landon and various former other soccer players talking about Pulisic.

[Tim Howard]

This was a game where you needed him to go, give me the ball. I'm going to stick it in the back of the net. It's two, two let's go. And he just didn't. And he wasn't even close to it. And in fact, we don't know. You know, there's reporting that he asked to get subbed out of the game. I can't confirm that. So I don't. I don't know if that's true or not. The reality is, Tim, he came out of a World cup knockout at home with his leg still intact. I'm saying this to you, Tim, and you know it, because you played with me. You would have had to drag me off the field, and I would have punched the doctor in the face and said, you're not taking me off the field. Put whatever you need to put in me, and I'm staying on the field. I play. I told you this before. I never shared this publicly until a few months ago. I played with a torn hamstring against Ghana after the Algeria game, and nobody knew about it. I didn't have to tell anyone. It was no, no drama around it. I just did it. And I just. I could not believe that he didn't stay in the. Now if we wake up tomorrow and he broke his leg and snapped and whatever. Totally fin.

[Sports Analyst 1]

So he was talking to Tim Howard there also, and those two were both kind of dishing on Pulisic and what his reputation is and how the. You know, I think it was Tim Howard that was saying that people, you know, like people in his. His entourage don't necessarily treat other people around soccer all that well. That, like, there's just a whole bunch of. There. There's a whole bunch of griping with these guys about Pulisic, that there's another part of me as a non soccer fan who's also like, all right, I get that and all, but it's not like you guys are standing from a pulpit from where you had won a World cup or something. And there was this. There was this piece that was on Paramount last year. So this is in advance of any of the latest controversy or anything, but Pulisic and Timothy Weah here are talking about some of these former players who are now commentators and what frauds they are.

[Luke Morrow]

I'd say the most annoying thing, and for me, the biggest cop out of

[Tim Howard]

all time, is when especially, you know,

[Luke Morrow]

all pundits want to say, you know, they didn't want it, they didn't have the heart. You know, back in our day, we would fight and we would die on that field.

[Christian Pulisic]

I think those guys are chasing checks. And for me, I just feel like they're really evil, honestly. Because they've been players and they know what it's like when you're getting bashed. And those are the same guys that'll turn around and shake your hand and try to be friendly with you at the end of the day, don't get me wrong, I respect all of them. I mean, they were players that I looked up to. But quite frankly, the guys before us didn't win anything either.

[Sports Analyst 1]

They didn't win anything. Who's cattier? Who's cattier? US Men's national team or the wnba? I feel like, I feel like the US Men's national team is a catty damn place, man. These guys just love sniping at each other.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, seems to be. I think I would say the WNBA is worse, but I do like that clip from Pulisic there and that, that, that mic drop at the end.

[Sports Analyst 1]

Well, that was way. At the end. That was way of that said that he said that those guys are evil and also said you guys never won anything.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah. Yeah. I think the WNBA is worse because of just how undeniable it is that Caitlin Clark is so good and they're trying to like, ignore that fact and just act like she's some average end of the bench player. I think the discrepancy in like the reality and their fantasy world is so much larger. Where in soccer I don't have that same feeling of like, these people are just out of their minds.

[Sports Analyst 1]

Right, right. Well, no, that's the whole thing about the Caitlin Clark stuff. It's okay. Cool. If you want to get into debate about whether she's better than this player or that player or whatever, I'd cool. Whatever. That's sports. It's the, it's the ranking. I mean, again, just imagine any young NBA star who had that kind of impact on the NBA then getting voted two or three spots or getting voted, what, nine or 10 or 11 spots lower than they should in the All Star voting. It just, I can't think of any examples like that where people have just wholesale said, oh, no, not only do we not like her, but we're just going to go ahead and act like she doesn't exist at all and that she's just a bum of a basketball player.

[Luke Morrow]

Right. And to add more context to it, she is having currently the best combined points and assists per game average in WNBA history. She is fourth in points per game in the league, second in the league in assists. And I guess their offense is also like on pace to set records and she's obviously leading the way. So it's just like. It's not debatable.

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[Luke Morrow]

I love the back and forth, but I do tend to agree with the guys with, like, Landon Donovan, where it's that old school, maybe like caveman ish thought, but it's a big game. Like, yeah, you know, you shouldn't want to come off the field. You got to leave it all out there. And Pulisic did not have a World Cup, a good World cup, especially when they lost to Belgium, where it seemed just like, yeah, like, I don't know if he had a lingering injury, but just wasn't into it. And if you're going to do commercials and if you're going to be called Captain America, then you can't be immune to the criticism that comes when you don't perform right well.

[Sports Analyst 1]

And then especially with Pulisic, it sounds like there's a lot more to it and that he's got a reputation and that this is just kind of the fact that, like, the, The. Your record matters, like your, Your previous record in terms of how you operate matters when it comes to a situation like that where if he had to pull himself from a game, there are a lot of other players that might have done that. But people are like, well, I know this guy and he's not a diva and he's not a, you know, he's, he's tough and all of that where you wouldn't question it. It felt like people in soccer, especially when they, when they know that it's Pulisic that's doing it. It's, it's, it felt, it felt to me from the outside looking in like there was a whole lot of like, yeah, well, what'd you expect? It's pulisic right now. This is, this is the guy that you're trying to rally around and nobody else actually feels that way about him.

[Luke Morrow]

By the way, I did just see this. A group of 11 lawmakers sent an angry letter to the WNBA asking big questions and demanding accountability for quote, multiple attacks on star Caitlin Clark.

[Sports Analyst 1]

Yeah, yeah, I don't listen, this is, I have no, I have no idea like whether those Republicans or Democrats is a genuine bipartisan take by me. I don't like it when politicians get involved in sports largely just because it's almost always. It's just pure grandstanding. It's a lot of times they don't even have any like legal authority to do anything about it. Like what? And it's not just this specific situation, it's anything else. That's when I get annoyed. I annoy, I get annoyed when interlopers come into, to my world and this isn't even my world, but just in general, the, into the sports world in general because it doesn't, it never, it usually doesn't feel like anything's actually going to get done other than get the politicians names out there.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, yeah, I'm with you on that. And yeah, stay out of it. The Caitlin Clark thing though, it reminds me of the Chris Rock bit where he would do a bit in the 90s, like the difference between men and women. And this is all for comedy purposes. And women will, or men will look at one of their friends who has like a great wife, let's say. And he'll say, man, I wish I could have a woman like that. But women will look at their friend who have a great husband and say I want that instead of something like that. Like I want that guy right there. Not a, not a carbon copy. But anyways, it might be that jealousy that's, that's driving all this Caitlin Clark nonsense in the wnba. So on the text line this has been actually a very popular topic. All sorts of comments coming in, somebody saying it's hard to keep up with all the text coming in, but somebody's saying Caitlin Clark. Asia Wilson is The Michael Jordan. Caitlin Clark is not the best guard in the league. Yada, yada yada. If you want to debate skill, that's one thing, but I don't think we can debate impact and the difference in the league once Caitlin Clark came into the wnba, I think is undebatable. And you could see just the impact in terms of, as we already referenced the ratings.

[Sports Analyst 1]

Right, right.

[Luke Morrow]

Ticket sales for their games.

[Sports Analyst 1]

You know, that's. And that's the whole thing. That's why I said I don't care if you're having a debate about Asia Wilson versus Caitlin Clark. Like, that's just. It's nothing. Where in your debate is. No, Asia Wilson is actually better than Caitlin Clark and Caitlin Clark is actually the 11th best guard in the league. Like, that's, that's where the. It's freakish. The extreme that people, People don't get into debate about, okay, best all time player. Is it LeBron or Michael? No, it's not LeBron. It's. It's Michael. And LeBron is actually the 25th best player all time. It's just, there's just. It's so clearly emotionally fueled if players themselves are going to the point where they're leaving Caitlin Clark entirely off the docket. It's just weird. It's really, really weird. Yeah. And then you add in the dynamic of. Then there's. There's like people turning into a race issue. And then you get. You can't have a conversation about it with somebody jumping in from some direction from. From somewhere completely outside your. What you're actually talking about.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, I mean, I would compare. This might be a bad analogy, but I would compare it to like, Avatar is the highest grossing movie of all time. I saw that movie in theaters. I thought it stunk. I hate the Avatars, but it's the most successful in. At least in that sense, in that statistic. It's the most successful movie that people go. They've made multiple people like it, it's popular. I don't think it's the best movie ever made. So even if we want to debate whether Caitlin Clark is the best guard or not, a. Like Seth just said, she's not the 11th. That's too large of a gap. The media and the fans disagree. But also, she's been the most like, successful player for the wnba. Even if you don't think she's the best, she's been the most marketable for the league for one reason or another,

[Sports Analyst 1]

which is the, I guess the other thing. The normal trajectory would be that Caitlin Clark comes in in the first two years as beloved, and then people really start hating her. She's been way more polarizing right from the get go. Right. Was it or was it. Did she ever. Rookie season, was it relatively smooth in terms of all this stuff?

[Luke Morrow]

And then I think it's kind of started right away. I mean, it kind of went back even to college. She was a little polarizing because of her rivalry, like with Angel Reese at the time and LSU and.

[Sports Analyst 1]

Yeah.

[Luke Morrow]

And so, you know, there was that rivalry which you could compare it to like Magic Johnson and Larry Bird and they both went into the league at the same time and they really helped improve the NBA at the time, just like the WNBA now. And there was people on both sides. You had your Magic Johnson fans, you had your Larry Bird fans and similar. You have your Caitlin Clark fans, now you have your Angel Reese fans. And so it was just a natural rivalry.

[Sports Analyst 1]

There was a, there's certain elements of it, the way that when it comes to these things where people are just jumping in from all facets of life to weigh in on it, and a lot of them aren't even sports fans. That's where it feels too much like the Tebow stuff, where you try to have a conversation about Tim Tebow and all of a sudden there's 9,900 people who aren't even sports fans who are going to tell you exactly why Tim Tebow's getting screwed over or whatever. You're like, oh, man, let's not turn this into a sociological debate. My God.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, I'm with you. Let's not forget the NBA. The WNBA should say never turned a profit, and I think still have not, but they're moving in that direction. So, you know, it's, it's had a large impact. Her presence. Um, coming up, there was a, a, a ranking yesterday. I, I, you know, we're doing a lot of lists this time of year. I do want to get to this. Who are the best young stars in the NFL? And I was surprised with how this one listing went. We'll debate it next on Pain and Pender. Guest.

[State Farm Representative]

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[Oregon Lottery Announcer]

Oregon Parks make an Oregon Summer, but what makes an Oregon park well? Oregon Lottery Gameplay helps no matter the game Megabucks, video lottery or keno funds from lottery games help support parks projects across the state, ensuring they stay safe, accessible, and open for all. In fact, Discover State Park Scratches are in stores now. It's the perfect way to put a little bit of Oregon's parks in your pocket. The Oregon Lottery Together we do good things. Must be 18 or older to play. Lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only.

[Gin Hatmaker]

Hey, it's Gin. Hatmaker here's what I've learned in midlife Joy isn't the reward you earn after all the work is done. Joy is the work. That's what this new series on for the Love is all about. The sacred yes. It's choosing delight, rest and pleasure on purpose. Because saying yes to yourself, that's the thing that finally lets you fill your table with everybody else. Come find your sacred yes with me. Follow and listen to for the Love. Wherever you get your podcasts, we know

[Amica Insurance Spokesperson]

you'll always find ways to look out for the people you love. And with Amica Life Insurance, we'll help build a plan to make sure you always can. Visit amica.com and get a quote today.

[UPS Store Representative]

Your package says delivered, but delivered where, exactly? The hallway? The lobby? Your neighbor's apartment? Instead of playing detective with your deliveries, get a mailbox at the UPS store. We'll sign for your packages, text you when they arrive, and keep your deliveries low key under lock and key. Get 3 months free mailbox services with a new annual agreement at the UPS store. For full details and to get your Coupon, visit the upsstore.com offer.