Will CJ Stroud Make It Through This Season?

Summary

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Payne & Pendergast – “Will CJ Stroud Make It Through This Season?”

Podcast: Payne & Pendergast (Audacy)
Date: July 10, 2026
Hosts: Seth Payne, Luke Morrow (filling in for Sean Pendergast)
Main Guests/Voices: Mike Florio (audio from Pro Football Talk), Foster Moreau (Texans TE)

Overview

This episode of Payne & Pendergast centers on the pressing question facing Texans fans and media: Will CJ Stroud hold onto his starting QB job throughout the 2026 season? Luke Morrow joins Seth Payne to dissect national narratives about Stroud’s post-season struggles, the strength of the Texans’ defense, and whether backup Davis Mills is a real alternative. The show also digs into team contract philosophy, quarterback “mental toughness,” and features Foster Moreau’s first impressions as Stroud’s new tight end.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The National Debate: Is CJ Stroud On the Hot Seat?

• Mike Florio’s Take (03:17):
  Mike Florio (Pro Football Talk) questions whether the Texans should stick with CJ Stroud if his poor playoff performances continue:

  “The flaw would be to blindly cling to CJ Stroud if what we saw in the postseason…continues into 2026.”

• Florio notes Davis Mills was undefeated (3-0) last year filling in for Stroud and argues the Texans’ high-level defense could win “by itself.”
• Both Seth and Luke find Florio’s stance overly alarmist, emphasizing that every quarterback would be benched if they consistently played as poorly as Stroud did in two playoff losses.
• Luke calls out the narrative (07:28):

  “If he plays like the worst quarterback ever, then yeah, of course you’re going to have to pull him.”

2. Backup Quarterbacks: Are Mills or Mertz Real Options?

• Seth uses a classic analogy, comparing media advocacy for Davis Mills to past head coaching debates (David Culley):

  “For all the people that were incredulous that the Texans would move on from David Culley, I searched. Not a single one of them said ‘You know who the Raiders should hire? David Culley.’” (04:29)

• Seth reminds listeners that backup QBs can thrive in short spurts with a tailored game plan—but that’s not the same as sustaining success over a season (05:53).
• Seth:

  “There’s zero part of me right now that wants Davis Mills over CJ Stroud.” (08:23)

• The consensus: Davis Mills’ brief, efficient run last year was the ultimate “backup QB effect,” and there’s little evidence he’s more than that.

3. Should the Texans Pay CJ Stroud? The Playoff Blip vs. Real Flaw

• Ross Tucker’s perspective (via a cited YouTube interview):
  Before a mega-deal, the Texans need assurance that Stroud’s playoff meltdown was an anomaly—not a sign of things to come.
• Seth’s analogy: (10:30)

  “It’s like if you see something…you find your dream house and…on the final inspection, you find a dead body in the pantry…you gotta be sure all the T’s are crossed and the I’s are dotted before I give out a generationally large contract.”

• Both hosts emphasize the team’s luxury of time: Stroud is under contract, so there’s no rush to extend until consistent playoff-caliber play returns.

4. Quarterback Benching: Mental Toughness, Locker Room Stakes, and Historical Examples

• The hosts discuss how rare and risky it is to bench a “franchise” QB mid-season.
• Luke:

  “I’m of the school of thought that if you were to make that move…I feel like it’s hard to go back to Stroud…especially if it’s just for the second half.” (18:50)

• Seth:

  “With quarterback…if you bench them, that’s pretty much it.” (19:25)

• They cite examples (Matt Schaub, Donovan McNabb) where QBs were benched and returned successfully—but agree it’s fraught territory.

5. Can an Elite Defense “Hide” an Average QB?

• Luke ponders whether the Texans’ defense could “carry” a lesser QB, citing last year’s Seahawks (Sam Darnold) as an example.
• Seth responds that guys like Darnold last year elevated their play—he wasn’t average; he was top-tier when it mattered (21:11).
• Both agree: To win it all, even “average” QBs must play like MVPs in the postseason (Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Nick Foles cited).

6. What Does CJ Stroud Need to Do to Earn His Extension?

• On performance vs. team results, Seth says it’s more about Stroud’s handling of situational football than raw stats or simply team wins:

  “I think that they were genuinely encouraged by his growth in terms of understanding the job of a quarterback within a game…I hesitate to call it game management, but understanding situational football and game flow…If he was not a dramatic improvement over last year, but he was still operating and handling all these situations the same way, I’d be cool with paying him as long as the team was still good.” (28:53)

• Luke’s take

  “…it’s almost…like the definition of pornography: you just know it when you see it, that improvement from him.” (31:19)

• The bottom line: If Stroud puts up another solid (if not MVP) year, avoids “panic” playoff mistakes, and the team keeps winning, he’ll get his deal.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

1. Seth on the “national narrative” around Stroud:

“It bothers me when people who cover the NFL full time choose to forget everything they’ve ever learned about backup quarterbacks coming in for a brief period of time…” (07:59)

2. Seth’s house inspection metaphor:

“...You find your dream house and…on the final inspection, you find a dead body in the pantry…wait a second, we gotta hit the brakes on this a little bit.” (10:30)

3. On the locker room impact of benching a QB:

“With quarterback in general…there’s such a different dynamic…the way the team looks at him, the way the quarterback has to operate as a leader…if you bench them, that’s pretty much it.” (19:25)

4. Luke on mental toughness and memes:

“It was a pretty damn big deal when you become that much of a meme in this day and age.” (36:38)

5. Seth on contract negotiations:

“It’s never as simple as just going out and finding another quarterback…If he has a better year, but not a dramatically better year…Let’s not overthink this. Let’s pay the quarterback, whatever the going rate is.” (28:53)

6. Foster Moreau (Texans TE) on Stroud’s leadership:

“He’s vocal, he’s loud. Like he has an expectation and vision for what he wants our offense to be, what he wants our team to be. And he doesn’t have a choice. He’s a leader for us regardless of circumstance.” (33:54)

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Segment Highlights by Timestamp

• (03:17–04:25): Mike Florio lays out concerns over “blindly” sticking with Stroud if postseason struggles continue.
• (04:29–09:30): Seth and Luke refute the “start Davis Mills” argument; importance of backup QB context.
• (12:36–13:55): The Sam Darnold comparison—sometimes a late-season disaster can be a springboard.
• (15:37–16:51): Would the Texans be negotiating now if Stroud had ended last year strong? The business side of patience with quarterback contracts.
• (17:01–21:10): How “thin is the ice”? What would it actually take to see Stroud benched mid-season?
• (22:24–23:10): Playoff quarterbacks who stepped up when it mattered—why “game manager” isn’t enough.
• (28:31–32:48): What must Stroud demonstrate this season for an extension? Is it personal growth or simply team performance?
• (33:00–34:18): Foster Moreau on first impressions of Stroud as a leader and thrower.
• (35:40–37:56): The CJ Stroud “how’s he doing” media obsession; meme status and public pressure.
• (38:08): Bystander takes on Foster Moreau’s voice and personality—Greg Olsen, Andrew Tate, Sean McVay comparisons (lighthearted banter).

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, honest, and slightly irreverent.
• Seth uses analogies and self-deprecation; Luke is straightforward and even-keel.
• Both are critical of national “hot take” culture but fair in assessing Texans’ real challenges.
• Frequent sarcasm and recognition of media/fan overreaction.

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Summary Takeaways

• Despite headline-grabbing national narratives, Payne and Morrow believe CJ Stroud’s starting job is secure unless his playoff disaster repeats all season—an unlikely scenario.
• The Texans’ defensive strength does not make Davis Mills a legitimate starting alternative for the long term.
• Stroud’s contract is not an urgent matter; solid performance and continued development, not just wins, will secure his mega-extension.
• Leadership, bounce-back ability, and playoff poise—not basic “wins” or stats—will define the next phase of Stroud’s career in Houston.

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For Houston fans and NFL observers, this episode serves both as a reality check on the “Stroud crisis” headlines and a nuanced look at how winning organizations actually handle star quarterback adversity.

Transcript

[Seth Payne]

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[Luke Morrow]

Will CJ Stroud actually make it through the full season? Pain and Pendergast. I'm Luke Morrow. In for Seth. Or I should say in for Sean. Sorry, alongside Seth Payne.

[Seth Payne]

I'll take the rest of the day off. You can do both of it.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, yeah, that's me and Ben. Me and Ben. Got you the rest of the way, Ben.

[Seth Payne]

Finally, Ben. That's what Ben's been angling for all these years. Don't give him the satisfaction. What'd you say?

[Luke Morrow]

More talk time. Time for hot takes.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. Hey, hey, hey. Yeah. I don't like the way you said hot takes there.

[Mike Florio]

That's.

[Seth Payne]

That's Ben throwing shade at Sean and I. That's no more talking for you, Ben.

[Luke Morrow]

He's been in my ear all week. Like, hey, when are you gonna let me open up the mic for those?

[Seth Payne]

You know, every now and then we get people who complain that we don't have Ben on the show. More like weigh in. I cannot tell you enough how little that. How little that Ben wants that Ben. Ben does not like it when we ask him to talk. So. And I always, I'm always grateful when he will say a few words.

[Luke Morrow]

And he's by the way. And it's not brown nosing, but Ben is. It's fine if he doesn't turn the microphone on. He's really good at what he does. And I, he makes it a lot easier for me whenever I'm filling in, especially in a week like this. We're lucky here. I've worked at a lot of radio stations. Some producers just don't care or whatever. We have really good producers at this station and Ben's fantastic. So it's always great to be in with you guys.

[Seth Payne]

Because we give them the best drugs.

[Luke Morrow]

That's right.

[Seth Payne]

Most producers, it's a matter of like, all right, how do we keep them happy? And. And we know how to keep Ben happy.

[Luke Morrow]

I don't even know where I am now, man.

[Seth Payne]

He's in another dimension. He's operating completely unconsciously.

[Luke Morrow]

713-572-4610 on the text line or YouTube and Twitch chats as well. Will CJ Stroud actually make it through the year? Not from like a health perspective. I mean that, that could be a conversation or a concern. Some Texans might have that with this offensive line and, you know, it's like a Joe Burrow scenario. Can he actually get through the whole season healthy, but more so based off of performance? Because our dear friend Mike Florio on his Pro Football Talk Live show, he was pondering this yesterday of is CJ Stroud actually going to be capable of holding on to this job throughout the season? Here was Florio, I think the key,

[Mike Florio]

the willingness or lack thereof of the coaching staff to do something about the obvious. When the obvious happens, if CJ Stroud continues to struggle, you can't just continue to blindly let him play. Davis Mills was three and oh, as a starter last year when CJ Stroud was out with a concussion. And I remember we were at Soldier Field for the Rams Bears game, watching Texans Patriots that afternoon and we just all assumed after halftime it was going to be Davis Mills and they still didn't move to Davis Mills, there's a chance they still could have won that game. As Sim said all last year, the Texans defense is good enough to win a championship all by itself when the offense is actively working against it. Not that they're doing it on purpose, but the offense was pulling down the team and the defense was still good enough to get as far as they did. So, hey, clean slate for C.J. stroud. He's still their guy. He hasn't gotten his long term contract yet, but for now he's their guy. The flaw would be to blindly cling to CJ Stroud if what we saw in the postseason, both against the Steelers and against the patriots, continues into 2026.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, I mean there's a, there's a few ifs there and obviously the big one was, yeah, if C.J. stroud were to play that bad on through the regular season. You call it Davis Mills, Graham, what's his Graham Mertz. Anybody else like, yeah, there's going to be, there's going to be some kind of a change. I think that's a, that's a pretty big if. I think no matter how down anybody is on CJ Stroud, I would imagine it's hard to imagine that all of a sudden something just dramatically changed in him between the regular season and the playoffs to where this is who he is from now and forever. I'm not saying it's impossible. I would just be really, really surprised. The other part of it though too is the I, I'll go back to my old David Cully rule on this. All right. If you're saying C.J. stroud at some point needs to be replaced by Davis Mills and that's what you're saying right now, then why are you not also clamoring for some other team to trade for Davis Mills that somebody's looking for a starting quarterback? And it's because my old thing with David Culley was alright. Stephen A. Smith and all these other guys are all like, they can't believe that the Texans are firing David Culley, but meanwhile they're not recommending David Cully to get any other head. Not a single one of them. For all the people that were incredulous that the Texans would move on from David Culley, I searched. Not a single one of them also said, you know who the Raiders should hire? David Culley. Like they didn't do it. It's non existent. And likewise there's nobody out there clamoring for Davis Mills. There are a lot of other teams that if they had a chance to get CJ Stroud at some kind of a discount or whatever, they would do it in a second. And that doesn't mean that, that doesn't mean that he's going to be an all pro quarterback or anything. It's a, yeah, Davis Mills was three. And oh, I thought Nick Haley did an awesome job of serving up a game plan that works really well for those three games. But like, let's not pretend that Davis Mills looked like he was the reinvented Sam Darnold or something when he was out there. He had some really good fourth quarters in the Titans game and in the Jacksonville game and did some really good things. But it was, he got rid of the ball fast. The fastest he, he had the fastest time to throw of anybody in the league last year, which is what happens when a good backup quarterback is coming in and executing a game plan that's going to work for a little while. So especially when you've got a really good defense. But it wasn't anything that all of a sudden put him in that conversation of, oh, wow, maybe he should actually be the starting quarterback for 17 games. So I think I agree with Florio in that if, yes, CJ Continued to play exactly the same way he did against the Steelers and the Patriots, you would have to move on from him. That would be an abject disaster. I just, I have a hard time thinking that that's going to be the reality now. If he's, if he's struggling, et cetera, et cetera, then that's a whole nother conversation.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, that's. So that, that audio bite was 78 seconds. So a minute 18. And as I'm listening to him.

[Seth Payne]

Okay.

[Luke Morrow]

And then, yeah, then he kind of buries the lead where that was the last thing he said. Like, if he plays like he did in the playoffs. So it's like, yeah, of course, no kidding. If any quarterback plays like that, that's, you can't have that guy out there. I thought he was making the case of just like regular season Stroud, if he plays like he did last year or the year before, like at a certain point you're going to have to bench him. But of course, if he's, if he is playing historically bad, no one played as poorly historically as Stroud did in those two playoff games. So if he's playing like the worst quarterback ever, then yeah, of course you're going to have to pull him.

[Seth Payne]

And I'll say, look, yeah, Davis Mills went three and oh, C.J. stroud went seven and oh, Stretch during the season. I don't, I don't for the, this, this thing. It bothers me when people who cover the NFL full time choose to forget everything they've ever learned about backup quarterbacks coming in for a brief period of time and that, yeah, you can do some really good things with a quarterback for a brief period of time, but that's not the same thing as getting game planned for all season long and having to go out and you know, and having all that film on you that you don't get to just ambush the opposition with with a tailor made game plan for your backup quarterback. So, yeah, I'm not like, there's zero part of me right now that wants Davis Mills over C.J. stroud. The question, I think, and I think this is what Ross Tucker brought up when he was on Garrett Williams podcast on his YouTube channel, which I really, I really liked, because I think he just said something that I've, that I've been thinking, but he said it more eloquently than I would. Is that just flat out before The Texans pay C.J. stroud, they got to be sure that that was just a blip on the radar in the playoffs. My concern is that the decision making in the two playoff games this year was just so poor that it can't help but make you give you some pause and some hesitation in terms of a monster contract. Do I still think they'll give it to him at some point?

[Foster Moreau]

Yes.

[Seth Payne]

But if I'm the Texans and I have them for two more years, I think I need to make sure that what we saw in those last two postseason games was not the start of more to come or was not something that's going to continue. Yeah, that I have a feeling that if you listen to that, it might sound like it's alarmist or something. But I think in the very real world, if you put yourself in the situation of the Texans, that, all right, we're pretty sure we feel like CJ's, you know, headed in the right direction and we like a lot about the way he's operating and everything. But then all of a sudden, in the last couple of opportunities before you might end up giving him an extension, you see just an almost incalculably bad performance and something that's completely out of the blue. It's like if you see something, you find your dream house and you put in a contract and on the final inspection, you're walking around and you find a dead body in the pantry or something like, oh, wait a, wait a second, we gotta hit the brakes on this a little bit. And you find out it was a neighbor who put the dead body there. Like, yeah, all right, I gotta rethink this a little bit. And it's like, I gotta be sure all the T's are crossed and the I's are dotted before I give out a generationally large contract.

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[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, yeah, certainly. And. And I, I look so like Sam Darnold. It's not exactly apples to apples, I guess, but Sam Darnold had that lousy. When he was in Minnesota, had a terrible. The final game of the season was essentially a playoff game. He was horrendous.

[Mike Florio]

The.

[Luke Morrow]

Then they went to the playoffs, he was horrendous. And the Vikings felt like, yeah, you know what? We can't commit to this guy. He just played terrible in the two biggest games. And then he obviously came back this year in Seattle, was like, hey, I'll show you. And played excellent throughout the playoffs. In fact, even better in the playoffs than he did in the regular season. He elevated his play, limited his turnovers, took care of the football better and obviously they won the Super Bowl. So that's kind of the. I know a lot of people draw that comparison to. Of Stroud, to Darnold, of obviously Stroud had that meltdown last year in two games. Kind of like Darnold, in fact, even worse than Darnold. And now the hope is seeing if he can bounce back. So it's nice to have the luxury and to Ross's point of like him still being under contract, where the Vikings had to make a decision right there and then and they're like, yeah, Darnold's not a big game quarterback. If the Texans had to make a decision today. If his contract was up, maybe they would feel the same way of we can't pay him based off of what we just saw in the playoffs. But like Ross laid out, the good thing is you still have time to try to figure out if that was the outlier or if that becomes the norm where he, he almost is, is, is shook in those scenarios and can't shake that.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. And I think that's where when it comes to, I guess it's, it's mostly driven by the media and shows like ours. I suppose that this feeling that, oh boy, you got teams just, boy, if you don't make that decision after the third year, it makes it really tough to operate. Which, I mean there's just, there's not any truth to that. Like the, the Ravens and the Cowboys kicked the can way on down the road and I'm not saying that they handled it the right way. And yet the, that waiting to pay Lamar Jackson and waiting to pay Dak Prescott didn't mean financial devastation for those teams, didn't mean that those quarterbacks just held a grudge against the organization and they're never going to want to play there again or anything like that. I mean they obviously haven't won a Super bowl or done what they want to do. But it's not the end of the world to make a quarterback wait a year or two. It's not like the biggest slap in the face that when you're not one of the best players at your position in the league that you don't get a contract. It's just, it should be on the surface of it all. It feels, it's always felt to me like it should be a non factor and a non issue except because it's the quarterback position and people attach so much importance to it. Rightfully so that it, that somehow it's like the biggest slap in the face to not pay a guy after his third year. No, he just simply hasn't earned it yet. And you can make excuses or explanations for it and I do myself, I make explanations for some of the reasons that CJ hasn't fulfilled his potential. But it's, but it doesn't mean that because he's got some excuses that you just go ahead and give them a record setting contract.

[Luke Morrow]

To Ross's point or question though, do you think like say he played the same way he played in the regular season, say you get those performances in the playoffs for Stroud, do you think the Texans would have made that decision? Like how much of a factor do you think that is, or do you think this is simply the Texans saying, like, hey, we don't need to rush, let's continue to take our time and gather more information regardless of what happened in the playoffs?

[Seth Payne]

That's the real, really good question. And I lean more on the side of. I don't. I think there still wouldn't be a contract right now, but there might have been some negotiations and that. C.J. you know, theoretically, that the Texans wanted to get him at some kind of a, you know, whatever the current rate is, where it's been stuck at 55 million a year, give or take, for quarterbacks for the last few years, that they might have been open to something like that, knowing that next year, when you've got potentially six or more quarterbacks who are going to get new contracts next year, that it's going to get blown out of the water? I think they might have been comfortable with something like that. And then it's just, I don't know if, I don't know if C.J. and David Mulligetta would have been cool with, with that dollar amount. And I think that ultimately they might have just. They would have kicked the can down the road again, but there would have been more discussion about it.

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[Seth Payne]

I don't. I think there's a chance. Texans right now just flat out don't feel comfortable with that 55 million a year until they see that he's gotten over whatever issues he was having in the playoffs.

[Luke Morrow]

Right. Yeah. I think that's a big question that needs to be answered first at this point. Getting back to the Florio take. And on the text line, someone said, oh, good. Another national media person who only watched the playoffs and not the regular season, but getting back to what Florio said, how thin or thick do you think the ice is now? Obviously his. He set the bar at that playoff performance if he continues to play like he did in the playoffs. But do you. Could you see any scenario or how. How, like, what are the chances, I guess is the question I'm asking, that Stroud would actually get yanked out during the season, that he would get benched at some. How bad would he have to be to actually get benched this year?

[Seth Payne]

It would have to be especially in the regular season.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah. Yep. You know, like, okay, Davis Mills is going to start this Sunday for us instead.

[Seth Payne]

I think, I think if he, if he went out and had a first half like he did versus the Patriots, he's not getting benched in the regular season. If he came out in the second half of that game and was making the same bad decisions and hadn't. Because he did. I mean he reeled it in and controlled the situation better in the second half of that game. But especially if there was no weather to blame. I wonder, do you ever wonder this? What if CJ had gone out that bad and the weather was pristine and he was making those same decisions? Is it easier in that moment at halftime? Do you think, do you think that d' Ameco doesn't have the weather or anything else to just kind of cushion the. Cushion the severity of it, that, that he makes the decision to pull him then like, like Fox, the Patriots game, if you have that exact same performance. But they're, but the weather, the, the elements aren't a factor. Does he get pulled at halftime?

[Luke Morrow]

I'm of the school of thought of like in a vacuum I would pull Stroud in that scenario. And even watching that game, I was thinking like they probably would at this point, they probably would be better with Davis Mills. But, but I'm of the school of thought that if you were to make that move, I feel like, and you've been in locker room so you know better than me, but I feel like it's, it's hard to go back to Stroud if you pull him, especially if it's just for the second half because like, hey, you're playing really bad. We're going to put Davis in for the rest of the game and then should try to go back to him to be your starter. I just feel like mentally or confidence wise, I feel like that's too hard to go back to when you're talking about a guy who's supposed to be your franchise quarterback.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, I know it's a, it's a much bigger deal. And especially with, I mean with CJ I don't know if I think there's a. I don't know if I would put him in that top tier of mental toughness of like some of the all time stud quarterbacks who might get like just with quarterback in general, it's just there's such a different dynamic about the way the team looks at him, the way the quarterback has to operate as a leader and everything that if you bench them, that's pretty much it. And sometimes that comes down to, okay, how do you feel about the guy behind him? So benching CJ Where I'm not, look, I'm not, I'm not like Florio. I don't think that Davis Mills is going to be the next Sam Darnold. Maybe he does end up being. But I'm not going to forecast it. Not that that's what Florio said. I'm joking. But that it's a lot easier to say bench Elvis Gerbach when you got a Rich Gannon waiting in the wings. And I don't think that anybody's looking at Davis Mills like he's. Like he's Rich Gannon.

[Luke Morrow]

No. Right. But here is my concern. And people always misconstrued this and they're going to start going right now. The text and the message, the comments in YouTube. I'm not saying that Davis Mills gives you a better option than CJ Stroud. I'm not telling you that the Texans think Davis Mills is a better option than CJ Stroud. But could some people in that organization believe that you don't need a high level of quarterback play in order to win because of how good that defense is and therefore can convince themselves that they are just fine with. With a Davis Mills? Like, let's just say in the short term, I'm not saying you're going to move on from CJ Stroud to make Mills your starter, but this idea of like, hey, our defense is so good, we don't need a top five or top 10 quarterback at the quarterback position. We can get by with an average quarterback who just will make sure he takes care of the football.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. I think that's the tough thing is. And that's where the whole people have a hard time detaching new Sam Darnold from old Sam Darnold. I think that it wasn't like Sam Darnold was only running the offense and doing nothing else. He's always had an incredible. He's always had the ability to make some incredible throws. You know, like, he's like the things that made him the draft pick that he was. Those traits have always been there. And with the combination of his experience and being with the right coaches in the right scheme and everything, you got that kind of a performance out of Sam Darnold. But he wasn't like, he wasn't an average quarterback last year. You know, that wasn't. It does I keep seeing all these people say, yeah, things have just changed and you can win with a Sam Darnold. All right. Can we concede that they. They were still a top five passing offense? Like, they weren't or whatever. They ended up top five offensively. I can't remember where their passing offense was, but that it was more than just, hey, they're getting by with some mediocre quarterback play. No, he was playing. Playing like an MVP candidate for a large chunk of the season. That it was. It wasn't just. It wasn't the Texans offense last year for the Seahawks.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah. And he played even better in the playoffs. It's kind of like if you look at the quote unquote, like average quarterbacks recently that have won Super Bowls, the first ones that come to mind, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, who weren't necessarily MVP quarterbacks, but once you got to the playoffs, they played like MVP quarterbacks, which is why they were able to win Super Bowls. So. So even when you point to some of these, even like Nick Foles, people's like, Nick Foles won a Super Bowl. He was. He out dueled Tom Brady in the Super Bowl. So it's more about like the actual performance. You're getting such a MVP performance from these quarterbacks, even if historically they haven't been on that level. But yeah, Sam Darnold played really well last year, obviously, and that's. That's why they were able to get it done. It wasn't like he was throwing for 150 yards each game. He played a good job.

[Seth Payne]

Looking for some quarterbacks who had been pulled in the middle of a game while they. When they were already established. And the most. The cleanest example, I think, is Matt Schaub is one of them that kind of worked out. Remember, Shaub came back as bearded Schaub in the Jacksonville game and looked like the best version of himself. In 2013, Donovan McNabb had already reached five Pro Bowls. And then in 2008 against Baltimore, Andy Reid benched him at halftime after he went 8 of 18 for 59 yards and two interceptions. And then was restored. The next week, Philadelphia won four of its final five regular season games and reached the NFC Championship Game. That was a. That was like the. That was the cleanest example I could find of a bona fide stuff starting quarterback, getting the. Getting benched in the middle of a football game and then, you know, coming back that season and making the NFC championship.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, I think it's something that you should be able to do. I just worry about how well everyone would handle that. Obviously, I guess McNabb handled it well enough that. That the team sort of took off afterwards. Maybe that was the kick in the pants he needed, but that might not always be the case. Here is Texans.

[Seth Payne]

You know what? There's also. Back then, though, there was always a good chance that a guy had a concussion that nobody realized that's Also true. I'd have to go back. I might go back and watch that entire game and see if there was a. Oh yeah, dude. Yeah, he was totally at a concussion. But there were no independent medical advisors or anybody to. To spot it and tell Andy Reid, yeah, he's. And also in the or, the team didn't disclose that it was a concussion. Cause they wanted to get him back out there next week asap. Yeah, it's true.

[Luke Morrow]

They were. He was throwing up in the trash can like in the. In the Super Bowl. By the way, the Seahawks last year were eighth in passing yards. To circle back to what you said.

[Seth Payne]

Right? Yeah. So it wasn't like it was a. It was. I think there's a. Because people love, you know, falling in love with narratives this time of year. They. They act like that the Texans and the Seahawks are the same team and they're not. No, the Seahawks had a much better offense than the Texans did. They certainly in the play, especially in the playoffs, they had the ability to run the ball too. You know, like all of these things that they were definitively better than the Texans offensively in a lot of ways last year.

[Luke Morrow]

And what's amazing about Darnold, I'm looking at the numbers now. They were 29th in past attempts, so that's bottom four, yet eighth. And passing passing yards. Talk about efficiency. Where they didn't. They weren't throwing it a whole lot, but they were top 10 in the league in passing yards. Nonetheless.

[Seth Payne]

It was. It was like Clint Kubiak knew Gary Kubiak or something and it learned from him because it was. It was the quintessential Kubiak Shanahan offense of just. And they're a really good example too, of using the run to set up the pass, but not being an awesome rushing attack because you don't have to. You just have to. In that offense, you have to make everything look the same and that even if you're not an awesome rushing offense, that the defenders are trying to make their reads in the run looks exactly like the pass. So you don't have to have an awesome rushing attack.

[Commercial Announcer]

You.

[Seth Payne]

You just have to be able to run the ball effectively and not be getting stuffed on first down, you know, and like that's what they did. Like Clint Kubiak ran his father's offense, you know, tweaked to the modern era to a T. And so much of that is just on simple execution. That. That's like, that's where the Texans and other teams are lacking. They just. Whatever scheme you're running. You're just not running it to a tee the way that Clint Kubiak got that offense running last year, and we'll

[Luke Morrow]

see how he does with the Raiders now.

[Seth Payne]

Nothing beats tradition like weekly game nights

[Luke Morrow]

at Mom's house and Tostitos crafted with

[Seth Payne]

masa made the traditional way, starting with whole corn kernels with flavors worth gathering around, like a hint of lime and Mexican street corn.

[Luke Morrow]

And no artificial colors, flavors, or preservatives. That's the Tostitos way. Bring Tostitos to your next game night

[Seth Payne]

and you'll be winning either way.

[Luke Morrow]

Tostitos tradition matters.

[Rachel and Jordan]

Hi diva, it's Rachel and Jordan.

[Venmo/Shopify Advertiser]

Yeah, hi. Quick question.

[Rachel and Jordan]

Why are you not spending your Venmo Balance?

[Venmo/Shopify Advertiser]

Yeah, we're concerned you can like buy stuff with it. Ugh. You love buying stuff and earn cash

[Rachel and Jordan]

back on eligible purchases.

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Mm. You love purchasing eligible things.

[Rachel and Jordan]

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[Venmo/Shopify Advertiser]

The skincare kind, not the pyro kind.

[Rachel and Jordan]

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[Seth Payne]

Football is fun.

[Foster Moreau]

Why shouldn't your football podcast be the same?

[Luke Morrow]

Follow and listen to Heed the Call NFL Podcast with Dan Hanzas and Mark Sesler wherever you get your podcasts.

[Venmo/Shopify Advertiser]

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[Luke Morrow]

the text line somebody asked what does CJ have to do this year to get that contract? Obviously if he wins a Super bowl, you know that will get it done. But. But Seth, for you, is it, I imagine it's more about his performance than the team performance or is there a certain like level? Like hey, if you get to an AFC title game, then of course you know we're giving you the contract. Like is it more about what the team achieves or something in particular you have to see from cj?

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, that's all right because there's A question of what does he need to do versus what would I like him to see him do. I think that, I think that they were, I think they were genuinely encouraged by his growth in terms of understanding the job of a quarterback within a game. And I don't, I hesitate to call it game management, but just understanding situational football and game flow and all those kinds of things. I mean you go back to two years ago and in that Green Bay game at the, at the very end of the game when all the, when the Texans, they had a. Or in the last two minutes when the Texans had a lead and they really just needed to eat clock as much as possible. On third down, CJ Threw an incompletion that stopped the clock that wouldn't have even yielded a first down. Tank Dell would have gone out of bounds anyway. Like there was no reason for him to throw that. And when they asked him about it afterwards, like he hadn't had like at the two minute break, they hadn't discussed it or anything. I felt that was on the coaches and CJ Being a young quarterback and it was a game management flub on multiple levels. I think those are the type of things that both D' Amico Ryan's and C.J. stroud got better at this year. And it just kind of all went out the window like. So I think if you were to have the same performance next year but with like 10% extra, you know, just the. They don't have to be a top scoring offense, but he needs to take care of the football. He needs to have some great moments in the fourth quarter. And if it was, if it was not a dramatic improvement over last year, but he was still operating and handling all of these situations the same way, I'd be cool with paying him then as long as the team was still good. Because you got to like, kind of like with Kyle Shanahan, I think, like, I don't know, I don't think Kyle Shanahan is necessarily in love with Brock Purdy, but he also just knows that they've got, they've got a good thing going and it's a lot. He's been through it before. He's seen that it's not as simple as going out and like, oh, we can go out and trade for a Garoppolo or oh no, we can go, we can go, we can trade up in the draft and get a Trey Lance that. It's just, it's never as simple as just going out and finding another quarterback. I think that's what it ends up being with C.J. stroud. If he's. If he has a better year, but not a dramatically better year, that. All right, we've got a winning formula here. Let's not overthink this. Let's. Let's pay. Pay the quarterback, whatever the going rate is.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, it's sort of like, that was really good. It's a tough question to. To, like, directly try to answer. Try to put a. Put a thing on it, which I think you gave a great answer because it's almost. Part of it, too, is kind of like the definition of pornography of. You just know it when you see it and see that. That. That improvement from him.

[Seth Payne]

But then I think part of the. It feels like one of the potential explanations for why CJ Fell apart in the playoffs was that, you know, what I said afterwards was, no kid. No kid goes to bed at night dreaming of being Trent Dilfer. You know, like, oh, I can be the guy that was just kind of along for the ride on a Super Bowl. That, and I've got a Super bowl ring. But it's because the defense was so awesome. And that just psychologically, unconsciously, maybe there's a tendency to push and that you want to be above and beyond that. And I think that, like, whatever. Whatever, you know, however much that's true or not, who knows? But there was definitely something psychological going on in terms of pressing or trying to make things happen, including that pick six. You know, I mean, they've got a lead. You're in your own territory. All those things that I thought C.J. made a lot of improvement on and understanding this, the situation and the game flow, it kind of just flew out the window with that pick six against the Patriots, because that's. That's exactly the kind of situation where, no, you don't put the ball in harm's way in that situation.

[Luke Morrow]

Here is Foster Moreau, tight end of new tight end of the Texans. He was on NFL radio on Sirius XM, and he was talking about his new quarterback, C.J. stroud. Here's what Foster had to say.

[Foster Moreau]

Very early on, I wanted to go hang out with. With CJ Just, you know, get a vibe, just see how he's feeling, catch a few balls. And, I mean, his arm talent is exceptional. Some of the best I. I've been able to play with. He missed three games last year. I mean, his. His statistical numbers for, you know, where he wants to be in terms of as. As a successful quarterback. He's. He's always chasing greatness, always chasing excellence. He's an underrated. He's underrated with his legs. I mean that cat can move, right? You know, I'm excited, I'm excited especially for what I've seen throughout OTAs, throughout the, the phase one, phase two. He's got the guys, he's getting, he's getting everyone together out in, out in sunny California for a nice throwing session, as most quarterbacks, as most quarterbacks do nowadays.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Foster Moreau]

And I thought he was a quiet leader for us when I first showed up. And then we got into the workouts and we got into the actual, the bulk majority of what we actually do as a football team. And he's vocal, he's loud. Like he, he has an expectation and he has a vision for what he wants our offense to be, what he wants our team to be. And he doesn't have a choice. He's a leader for us regardless of circumstance.

[Seth Payne]

He's the most impressive 47 year old tight end I've ever heard. He just sounds like a broadcast professional, like a much more professional broadcast professional professional than myself. Everything he said there, I have a hard time listening to what he's saying because I'm picturing him wearing a suit at a GM press conference. And that's where when you hear these quotes from David Montgomery or Foster Moreau and all of these other guys that I think are the things you'd expect to hear from somebody that's new to the team and that I guess it's most notable that I don't want to say they sound surprised that CJ is like confident and in command and everything, but the fact that they're even weighing in on that, I wish it was more of a given that. Yeah, of course, like it's a, it's quarterback in the off season. What. It's no big deal. Like 28 of the starting quarterbacks in the league are probably having the same thing said about them when people talk about them. But I think it's just that we as a fan base are so attuned to just like, yeah, what, what's going on with him in his headspace and that. Ben, can you play the first 10 seconds?

[Foster Moreau]

Very early on I wanted to go hang out with, with CJ just, you know, get a vibe, just see how he's feeling, catch a few balls and yeah, okay.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah, yeah, see how he's feeling. I don't know if people say that about other court. I guess, you know, early I want to go on and see if, see Tom Brady how he's feeling and so many of These guys are being asked questions about, like, so, how's. How is CJ Doing? I think that one of the things. This is one of my encouraging things that happened throughout OTAs. I did feel like we moved from hearing a bunch of interviews of guys where the first question was, so, like, how's C.J. doing? You know? And you're almost waiting to hear somebody say, like, yeah, we had a. To take his shoelaces away from him. And he was. He's been under constant supervision the whole time. The questions have transitioned more away from that, more into the nuts and bolts of the defense. But I, like. Foster Moreau just brings up, yeah, how's he feeling? That's what. That's what I wanted to see is how's he feeling? It was a pretty damn big deal when you become that much of a meme in this day and age. I just. It's. It's a big deal. People. People were aware of it.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, I think it was. Even the USA lost to Belgium the other night. And again, people brought Shroud into it with the memes of, like, usa, you know, they turned into CJ Stroud in

[Seth Payne]

a USA jersey and all that.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, yeah.

[Seth Payne]

Which is why, you know, I thought we were going to get a break from. Because Drake May was very, very much memed in the week after the Super Bowl. But people. I think people. They sat down and they did the hardcore analysis, and they're like, nope, nope. CJ Was much worse.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, yeah. It's true. That's the worst. Like, when you were growing up, especially if you grew up in a small town and if you, like, had a breakup or you lost a job or something, and wherever you'd go through town, you'd run into somebody, like a friend of the family or your mom's friend, and whenever they check on you, like, oh, how are you doing? I heard. You know, I heard things are tough, or I heard you're going through a break. Like, that's the most embarrassing thing whenever people have to come check on you

[Seth Payne]

after a breakup, too.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah.

[Seth Payne]

Because then they probably heard that you were doing badly.

[Luke Morrow]

Right, Exactly. That's what I mean. You know, your mom's gossiping to them of, like, oh, he's having a hard time.

[Seth Payne]

Yeah. I just want to hear. I don't want to hear patronizing quotes about CJ Stroud. I don't want to hear people be like, yeah, you know what I mean? He. You know, he threw an interception last week, and it was cool. It was all right. He worked through it. And now He's. He's on the right track. No, no, no. I just want to just assume that everything is just fine until I hear that it isn't.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, exactly. And by the way, we got opposite ends of the spectrum. On the text line, somebody says Foster reminds me of Greg Olsen. That's good. Somebody else said he sounds like Andrew Tate. Not so good, I thought there's almost

[Seth Payne]

a little bit of a Sean McVeigh in there. A little bit.

[Luke Morrow]

Okay. Yeah, I could get that a little bit. I like Foster Moreau a lot, and I hope he's a good addition for the team this year.

[Seth Payne]

I like him because he's.

[Luke Morrow]

He.

[Seth Payne]

I guess he's kind of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. You see him in interviews, and he sounds like a general manager, but then you see him out on the football field, and he's talking all kinds of smack. I like the potty mouth to boot.

[Commercial Announcer]

That's a.

[Seth Payne]

That's the kind of duality we need in our young football players.

[Luke Morrow]

Yeah, those are my kind of guys. I like that. I appreciate that. Coming up, we got to get to this story. I've been tracking it all week, but now it actually cost him a job. The spurs broadcaster got fired, and it's. It's juicy. And we'll talk about it next year on Pain and Pender Gas.

[Seth Payne]

Hi, diva.

[Rachel and Jordan]

It's Rachel and Jordan.

[Venmo/Shopify Advertiser]

Yeah, hi. Quick question.

[Rachel and Jordan]

Why are you not spending your Venmo balance?

[Venmo/Shopify Advertiser]

Yeah, we're concerned you can, like, buy stuff with it. You love buying stuff.

[Rachel and Jordan]

And earn cash back on eligible purchases.

[Venmo/Shopify Advertiser]

You love purchasing eligible things.

[Rachel and Jordan]

So the money your friend sent you yesterday, that's today's ramen or rideshare or eye patches.

[Venmo/Shopify Advertiser]

The skincare kind, not the pyro kind.

[Rachel and Jordan]

Spend with Venmo and you can earn cash back with Venmo stash. Venmo stash bundle terms and Exclusions apply. Max $100 cash back per month. See terms@venmo me terms. ID verification required to use a Venmo balance.