"Billionaires Shouldn’t Exist" - Ben & Jerry’s Founder SLAMS The Rich, Capitalism & Corporate Greed

Summary

PBD Podcast: "Billionaires Shouldn’t Exist" - Ben & Jerry’s Founder SLAMS The Rich, Capitalism & Corporate Greed

Release Date: March 12, 2025
Host: Patrick Bet-David
Guest: Ben Cohen, Co-Founder of Ben & Jerry’s

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1. Introduction

In this compelling episode of the PBD Podcast, host Patrick Bet-David engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Ben Cohen, the visionary co-founder of Ben & Jerry’s. The discussion delves deep into the intricate relationships between capitalism, wealth disparity, corporate ethics, and government policies, offering listeners an unfiltered look into Ben Cohen’s perspectives on these pressing issues.

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2. Wealth Disparity and Capitalism

Ben Cohen’s Critique of Unfettered Capitalism

Ben Cohen opens the conversation by addressing the rampant inequality propagated by unregulated capitalism. He emphasizes the moral imperative to ensure that hard work translates into a decent living for all, stating:

“Poor people are getting screwed. We shouldn't be in a country where you work for 40 hours a week full time and you can't afford to have a decent life. That should be illegal.”
— Ben Cohen [01:16]

He contrasts this with the extreme wealth concentration, highlighting that a mere 0.1% of the population controls 90% of the wealth, a situation he finds deeply unjust.

Patrick's Counterpoints on Capitalism

Patrick Bet-David challenges Ben’s stance by acknowledging the successes that capitalistic ventures like Ben & Jerry’s have achieved, prompting a discussion on the balance between capitalism’s benefits and its inherent flaws.

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3. Taxation and Income Inequality

Ben Cohen on Tax Policies

Ben argues for a more progressive tax system to alleviate income inequality. He advocates for higher marginal tax rates on the wealthy to reduce the chasm between the rich and the poor:

“I think the system that has created such disparity between rich and poor, and that's part of it. So. No, I don't think that works.”
— Ben Cohen [12:05]

He believes that current tax laws, which favor capital gains and penalize ordinary income, exacerbate economic disparities. Ben suggests that higher taxes on the wealthy would curtail the undue influence of money in politics and promote a fairer society.

Patrick’s Skepticism

Patrick expresses skepticism about the effectiveness of increased taxation, questioning the government's ability to manage and allocate funds efficiently without further waste.

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4. Government Spending and Pentagon Budget

Ben Cohen’s Concerns Over Military Expenditure

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the exorbitant Pentagon budget. Ben criticizes the massive funds allocated to defense, arguing that they could be better spent on social programs that uplift the populace:

“Our pentagon budget is $900 billion a year. One of the reasons I got into this is because... And that's how much a billion is... it's just unbelievable. And that's just 1 billion. Now, that's another...”
— Ben Cohen [66:01]

He elaborates on the inefficiencies and corruption within the defense sector, highlighting examples like the F35 program and unnecessary expenditures on subpar equipment.

Patrick’s Alignment with Ben’s Views

Patrick aligns with Ben’s critique, advocating for significant cuts to the Pentagon budget. He applauds Trump’s stance on reducing military spending and emphasizes the need to redirect funds towards improving the quality of life for American citizens.

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5. Political Views and Voting Behavior

Ben Cohen on Bipartisan Failures

Ben attributes the rise of populist figures like Trump to the failures of both major political parties in addressing the needs of the bottom 50% of the population:

“I think he won because the bottom 50% of the population is getting screwed by both parties.”
— Ben Cohen [29:32]

He believes that systemic issues within the political landscape, such as corporate influence and legislative corruption, have eroded trust in traditional parties, leading to voter disenchantment.

Patrick’s Political Insights

Patrick delves into the complexities of voter behavior, exploring why marginalized communities might turn to unconventional candidates. He questions the effectiveness of traditional policies in bridging the wealth gap and fostering genuine social change.

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6. Business Practices and Employment

Ben Cohen on Fair Wages and Employment Practices

Reflecting on his experience with Ben & Jerry’s, Ben discusses the company’s initial efforts to maintain a fair wage ratio between CEOs and employees:

“When Jerry and I started Ben and Jerry's, the spread between CEO pay and line level workers pay was 40 to 1. We thought that's outrageous. So we had a lower one. We came up with the 5 to 1 ratio.”
— Ben Cohen [06:34]

He lamented how this ratio has worsened over time, both within his company and the broader corporate landscape, underscoring the need for sustainable business models that prioritize employee welfare.

Patrick’s Observations on Corporate Greed

Patrick highlights the contradictions faced by business leaders who advocate for fair wages yet themselves benefit from substantial wealth accumulation. He pressures Ben to reconcile these disparities, questioning the feasibility of his socialist leanings within a capitalist framework.

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7. Ice Cream and Light-hearted Interactions

A Sweet Interlude: Sharing Ice Cream

Amidst the heavy discussions, the podcast takes a light-hearted turn as Ben and Patrick share various ice cream flavors, symbolizing the blending of serious discourse with genuine camaraderie.

Notable Quote:

“We have a good time. We're going to try Ben and Jerry's. I brought a lot of other ice cream that he hasn't seen it yet.”
— Patrick Bet-David [04:01]

This segment not only humanizes the conversation but also reinforces Ben & Jerry’s reputation for community and joy.

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8. Conclusions and Final Thoughts

Ben Cohen on Leadership and Moral Responsibility

As the podcast nears its end, Ben emphasizes the moral responsibilities of leaders to make tough decisions that prioritize the greater good over personal wealth or corporate interests:

“I wouldn't sacrifice my daughter. I'm not okay with it.”
— Ben Cohen [103:50]

He advocates for a societal shift towards valuing human welfare over military might and corporate greed, urging listeners to envision a more equitable and compassionate America.

Patrick’s Call for Recognition and Change

Patrick concludes by lauding Ben’s achievements while urging the audience to recognize and support business leaders who strive for ethical practices. He emphasizes the need to celebrate success without guilt, advocating for a balanced approach to capitalism that fosters both innovation and social responsibility.

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Notable Quotes

• Ben Cohen [01:16]: “Poor people are getting screwed. We shouldn't be in a country where you work for 40 hours a week full time and you can't afford to have a decent life. That should be illegal.”

• Patrick Bet-David [06:37]: “It's no longer five to one, I bet in Jerry's.”

• Ben Cohen [12:05]: “I think the system that has created such disparity between rich and poor, and that's part of it. So. No, I don't think that works.”

• Ben Cohen [29:32]: “I think he won because the bottom 50% of the population is getting screwed by both parties.”

• Ben Cohen [103:50]: “I wouldn't sacrifice my daughter. I'm not okay with it.”

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Key Takeaways

1. Economic Inequality: Ben Cohen vehemently opposes the vast wealth disparities exacerbated by unregulated capitalism, advocating for progressive taxation and fair wages.

2. Government Spending: Both Ben and Patrick agree on the need to drastically reduce Pentagon spending, redirecting funds towards social programs that benefit the broader population.

3. Political Disillusionment: The failure of both major political parties to address systemic issues has led to voter disenchantment, paving the way for populist movements.

4. Ethical Business Practices: Maintaining fair wage ratios and prioritizing employee welfare are crucial for sustainable and ethical business growth.

5. Leadership Responsibility: True leadership involves making tough, morally sound decisions that prioritize societal well-being over personal or corporate gain.

6. Balancing Seriousness with Camaraderie: Even amidst heavy discussions, maintaining genuine human connections and moments of joy are essential for a holistic conversation.

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This episode of the PBD Podcast offers a rich blend of critical insights into capitalism’s pitfalls and the moral responsibilities of both business leaders and political figures. Ben Cohen’s candid reflections serve as a call to action for a more equitable and compassionate society.

Transcript

[Patrick Bet-David]

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[Ben Cohen]

Ben and Jerry's ice cream. Ben and Jerry.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Ben and Jerry's.

[Ben Cohen]

Ben and Jerry's.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Ben and Jerry's. One of the best business stories we've had on America. Guys, how do you who has made his money as a capitalist support a socialist?

[Ben Cohen]

Poor people are getting screwed. We shouldn't be in a country where you work for 40 hours a week full time and you can't afford to have a decent life. That should be illegal.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Do you really want to go there? It's not going to be good if you really want to go there.

[Ben Cohen]

Hey, speaking of ice cream, you got a spoon? Good shit, isn't it? I've never had dirt. Yeah, pass it over.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This is ridiculous. After this ice cream. I'm a socialist.

[Ben Cohen]

If voting for Bernie was an option, he would have won. I don't need that much money. I can tell you that. I'm part of it, but I'm against it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Ben, what a capitalist you are though.

[Ben Cohen]

You know you're a good consumer, we would classify you as a heavy user and we appreciate people like you. I don't think we could be the number one.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But please tell me you're joking right now. That you didn't know you're number one. You feel the number one ice cream company in America.

[Ben Cohen]

I think that there's a form of capitalism that works well.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How can you one minute say the government wastes money and next minute say let's pay more money because we think they can do a better job with it. They're so confused right now. They're about to have a drink right now. That's a. That's a confuser. You just confuse the out of them. Adam, what's your point? The future looks bright. My handshake is better than anything I ever saw. It's right here. Okay. So, gang, every once in a while, I do a podcast where I have no clue where we're going to go. I'm just being very upfront with. I have no idea what we're doing today. What I do know is I don't know if you recognize this brand, Ben and Jerry's ice cream, if you've ever had Ben and Jerry's ice cream. The founder, Ben, is here today, Ben Cohen, to kind of tell you an idea about where he's at while we're talking right now. They're from Vermont. I've been to Ben and Jerry's because the. The insurance company that we're. We're one of the guys that writes the most insurance policies with them. National Life Group is down the street from you, so I know them. So I've been to Vermont quite a few times. So we go to the headquarters. We have a good time. We're going to try Ben and Jerry's. I brought a lot of other ice cream that he hasn't seen it yet. I brought Haagen Dazs. The reason why this is important is because I used to work at Haagen dazs back in 94, 95. So there's a certain affinity. I was the number one banana split maker in the entire Glendale Galleria Mall. I was the best. I had a reputation.

[Ben Cohen]

You know how to split it? I know how to split it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I know how to put the strawberry, the ice cream, the chocolate, the. The nuts on top of it with the Nutella. I was the best.

[Ben Cohen]

You know, people have lost the art of making a good banana split. We ought to call you in and you can train our people.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I may make a comeback. I'm telling you. I. I was very good at that part. But let me tell you what's. What's kind of interesting about this conversation. Tony tells me Ben Cohen from Ben and Jerry's reached out, says he wants to be on the podcast. I said, really? I said, is he not a socialist, Bernie Sanders guy? I think he is. I said, why do I think that they're, you know, Vermont. Bernie Sanders? Yeah. And I'm looking at him, I'm like, okay, why does he want to come talk to us? I'm curious. Well, he's Got some things he wants to talk about. Great. To kind of start it off so the audience knows your background, what you guys did. One of the best business stories we've had in America. Guys, let me tell you why. You guys started in 77. You were a potter and Jerry was a. He got rejected from medical school. The two of you guys decided to start a bagel shop, but the bagel machine was too high. You enrolled in a $5 ice cream making course. Instead. You guys took that a year later, created Ben and Jerry's with $12,000, and you turned that into a machine. You sold it, and I don't know what year it was for $326 million, like 25 years ago or something.

[Ben Cohen]

That's right.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And then today, Ben and Jerry's. Just so you guys know how much ice cream. The founders started an ice cream. They do a billion dollars of sales a year right now. So the question then becomes, how do you, who has made his money as a capitalist, support a socialist? How does that work out? I'm really curious.

[Ben Cohen]

You know, I think there's social democracies. I mean, I don't think socialism is opposed to capitalism. I think there's a. There's a way of doing capitalism that kind of cares about people, that has a better safety net, that is not so rapacious. I mean, what we have in the US Is unfettered capitalism. And what, what ends up happening when you have that is a tremendous spread between rich and poor. You know, when, when Jerry and I started Ben and Jerry's, the spread between CEO pay and line level workers pay was 40 to 1. And we thought that's outrageous. So we had a lower one. We came up with the 5 to 1 ratio.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That's interesting, by the way.

[Ben Cohen]

And that's changed over time. But.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So it's no longer five to one, I bet in Jerry's.

[Ben Cohen]

But today the, the salary ratio between CEOs and line level employees is 400 to 1. And what we're in, we're in a situation where, I don't know, what is it? 0.1% of the wealthiest people in the country own 90% of the wealth, which.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You're part of it. You're part of the 0.1%.

[Ben Cohen]

I'm part of it, but I'm against it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What do you mean? You're a part of it, but you're against it?

[Ben Cohen]

Well, I am one of the, you know, I'm. I'm a wealthy person.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah.

[Ben Cohen]

But I'm against the system that had that, that creates Such a spread between rich and poor.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Why though?

[Ben Cohen]

Because poor people are getting screwed.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But why? But why though?

[Ben Cohen]

Because. Why am I against it?

[Patrick Bet-David]

No. Why? So it's okay. So please help me understand this. So at, at first you start Ben and Jerry's and I saw that where you guys were doing five to one ratio, meaning if the lowest level employee full time was making 30 grand a year, the CEO couldn't make 150 a year. Right. That was at the time. What do you think the ratio is right now at Ben and Jerry's?

[Ben Cohen]

I have, I really have no idea.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Would you say it's 1 in 40, do you?

[Ben Cohen]

So, so it might be. I.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But you work there. So you know what the CEOs made. You know what kind of money is making. You probably have the context in there. Let's just say the CEO of a company. Like if I go right now, Rob, can you find out who is the CEO of Ben and Jerry's? I don't even know it. Ben and Jerry's CEO salary. I don't know what it is. I've never googled it.

[Ben Cohen]

Let's just see. I'm interested. I've never googled it either.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, so Ben and Jerry's salary, CEO back in 2000, we're talking that.

[Ben Cohen]

That was at the time that the company got sold it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But at the time the salary was 504. 25 years ago it was 504. Okay, so which became 17 to 1. All right, so I want you to follow this. So what you just said is. I'm just responding to what you said. So Ben and Jerry's got started. You originally you guys wanted to be very noble. And hey, we're not going to pay anybody at the highest level five times more than the lowest level employee. Lowest level makes 30. Highest level makes 150. Okay, cool. Nice guys. Noble guys. By 2000, you build a business that's doing 300, that's doing 200 million a year. You guys are selling it for 326. Then the co pay was 17 times the lowest amount the employee was making. So that disparity went from 5 to 1 to 17 to 1. Let's say today. Who is today CEO of Ben and Jerry's? Da da da da.

[Ben Cohen]

Dave Stever.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Is it Dave? Dave Stever. What is Dave Stever's salary at Dave Stever salary? Ben and Jerry. Right. If I go to it, I wish I could see it. I wish it was public. It's not showing it, but let's just say he's making A couple million a year. You guys are.

[Ben Cohen]

I don't think he is.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Does he get stocks? Does he get shares? Does he get bonus? Does he get ltip? Does he get.

[Ben Cohen]

I, I don't think so. I would think that, you know, but.

[Patrick Bet-David]

If it was 500,000 25 years ago, Ben, it's not going to be less than 25 years ago.

[Ben Cohen]

I believe it probably is, but I don't know. I don't have.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I know, but. Well, let's just say it's a million bucks. Let's say conservatively it's a million bucks. And let's say the ratio now instead of 17 to 1 is 30 to 1. So you guys started off 5 to 1. It went 17 to 1. Let's say it's 30, 40 to 1 now. And then at the time you're saying 40 to 1 was what it was in the corporate world. Now it's 400 to 1. You guys have 10x, they have 10x. So what's wrong with that? What's wrong with. If you're creating value, Ben, you guys did something that's very difficult. Do you know how many people in America build a business from scratch that go from zero to a billion dollars in sales? Do you know how? Oh, Ben, what you've done is called doing the impossible. And I think the market should recognize you for your level of creativity. So that's the part. Do you think, like when you guys originally started and you're building a business and you and your partner, you guys are two nice guys, Potter and a guy that was rejected from medical school, you built something with a five dollar course that you take on making ice cream. And at first, maybe you guys coming from a place of socialistic ideologies, and then now you're kind of like, maybe capitalism's kind of cool and there's nothing wrong with capitalism. Have you gone through that evolution yet or not yet.

[Ben Cohen]

I think that there's a form of capitalism that works well. You know, we, we've always been a capitalistic country. My understanding is that when Reagan took office, the marginal tax rate on the, on the highest level was like 80%. I mean I'm.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Which nobody paid for, just so you know, that they had it. But no one ever paid. Paid it. No, really, no one ever paid was what they talked about. But everybody adjusted in ways so nobody even, like people would do certain jobs. So they never pay the highest marginal tax rate.

[Ben Cohen]

Well, what, Whatever. But, but I mean that, that's the idea that that's what kind of makes sense to me that to have it at 80%. Well, you know, what is it now? What's the top marginal bracket? What is.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You live in California, you're paying nearly 60%, but let's just say 43%, right? You think that's too little?

[Ben Cohen]

I think that the, the system that has created such disparity between rich and poor, and that's part of it. So. No, I don't think that works. I think a lot of people in this country are being left behind. I think 50% of the country is getting screwed economically.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Why though?

[Ben Cohen]

Because of laws and regulations that favor wealth.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Such as what? You're a rich man.

[Ben Cohen]

What, what is there. Is there. There's lower taxes on capital gains, Right?

[Patrick Bet-David]

But, but why those.

[Ben Cohen]

Those who. Who don't work. Those who don't work pay less taxes.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Let me ask you a question. When you sold, you paid capital gains? No.

[Ben Cohen]

Sure.

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, you did. When you sell a company, you didn't pay ordinary income. You pay capital gains taxes. So you guys sell for 326. Let's just say at the time you own 80%. I don't know what percent.

[Ben Cohen]

I didn't.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, but let's just say whatever it is you still are, you made real money.

[Ben Cohen]

Each of you figures.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Nine figures, like 100 million plus.

[Ben Cohen]

No, I'm, I'm. I'm eight figures.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, but guess what you are. You're still very rich compared to the average person. But here's a question for you. How hard?

[Ben Cohen]

I. I don't need that much money, I can tell you that.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Give it away.

[Ben Cohen]

I give a lot of it away.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Give all of it away.

[Ben Cohen]

Just keep a half a million of it eventually.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Well, why don't you do while you're alive?

[Ben Cohen]

I'm working on it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But why don't you do it sooner?

[Ben Cohen]

I don't know. Haven't found a good.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You shouldn't do it.

[Ben Cohen]

You've earned in pound.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Then you worked your ass off.

[Ben Cohen]

Well, there's a lot of people that are working their ass off. The whole bottom 50% of the country is working their asses off and getting paid.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What's the difference between them and you?

[Ben Cohen]

What's the difference between them and me? You know, there's some luck involved. There was a good idea at the right time.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What's the longest vacation you took in the first 10 years of building? Ben and Jerry's?

[Ben Cohen]

Not much.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Oh, really? Why not? Other people who have jobs can take longer vacations. Why didn't you take it?

[Ben Cohen]

I guess I chose to build the.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Business and Therefore, you made the money that you made. Most people don't want to work as hard as you did. What you did was very difficult, Ben. You got to give yourself credit for it. So to me, you know, I understand the concept of, you know, well, the rich people are this, and the rich is getting richer. The poor is getting poor and questioning that. But the reason why you make a lot more money than some of the people that you're saying are left behind, you solved a bigger problem.

[Ben Cohen]

You.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You kept trying to find creative ways of coming out with different, you know, flavors of the ice cream. You guys kept trying to be creative, and you worked your ass off. And the market finally said, did these guys really build a business from zero to doing 200 million a year? Yes. Holy. Let's buy it from them. And then now, after they bought it from you 25 years ago, was doing 200 million. Now it's doing a billion a year. You know what that says? You guys built such a good business that somebody, after they bought it, they made five times the amount of money. That's a real business. That's not easy to do. What percentage of Americans do you think are willing to work that hard? As hard as you? Not that many.

[Ben Cohen]

I come across loads of people that are working really, really hard for really low wages. You know, so I. Yeah, I had an idea, and, yeah, maybe I'm good at making ice cream flavors. Coming up with ice cream flavors. Somebody else is a really good roofer, and they work really hard. Roofing?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Sure.

[Ben Cohen]

Why shouldn't they get paid?

[Patrick Bet-David]

You want a roofer to get paid 300 million, $326 million?

[Ben Cohen]

I'm not saying that much. All I'm saying is that the, you know, what is the minimum wage in the country?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Let's say 15 million, give or take.

[Ben Cohen]

No, the minimum wage. Let's say it's $727.20. That should be illegal. That's a poverty wage. We shouldn't be in a country whereby you work 40 hours a week full time and you can't afford to have a decent life.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I agree with you. But let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. For the people that get paid $7.25, for those who do, the few that do, why do you think they do?

[Ben Cohen]

Well, I don't know how many there are, but I think there's a lot.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But why do you think they only get paid 7? They don't have to say yes to it.

[Ben Cohen]

It's the only job they can find.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Why can't they find any other jobs? Think about that. Actually answer that question right. Why can't they find another. Why can't they find another job? Rob, what's the least amount you ever got paid to calculate? It'd be annually? 22,000 a year. So 22,000 a year divided by. Do it divide four. And how many hours a week were you working, Rob? 50. Okay, do 50 times 50 is 2500. Do 22,000 divided by 2500. 7 bucks. 8 bucks and 8.8.

[Ben Cohen]

Yep.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So do you make 8.8 right now? No. Did you ever think you're going to make the kind of money you're making right now? Not when I was making 22,000 a year. Right. So. But when you came here and all of a sudden you're like, well, we can really build something special here, right? Correct. But why do we pay you that? Why do we pay. Whatever the number, you know, why do we pay you what we pay you? Experience, hard work, what I can do in the future. A combination of all three, I think. Great. But have you earned it? Yes. If somebody still earning it, though. I know you are, and you're working your ass up, but if somebody right now paid you $7.25, would you take it? No. Why, though?

[Ben Cohen]

Because I've.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I've gotten to a place where my hard work is deserved to be rewarded. That's right. And guess what? Do you. If, if right now this doesn't work out, do you have options? Yes. But you like being here. Love it. Of course. So that's the part. So for me, I have to realize I gotta take care of the guy. And then for him, guess what? He's gotta realize he's gotta bring value. And that's the part when I hear that message sometimes I'm like, okay, I get it. 7, 25. They don't have to say yes to it.

[Ben Cohen]

You know, I think about my life. I'm white. I grew up in a family where my father was a college graduate. He went to school at night. He was able to buy a house based on a government program that provided money to buy a house for. For white people. But by federal regulation, it was not available to black people. They would not loan. This was about redlining. The government would not loan into areas that were mostly black. And even if a black person wanted to buy a house in a white area, they said, oh, no, you can't do that, because then it'll be black. That's illegal, immoral, unfair. And, you know, so the, the.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What year was that?

[Ben Cohen]

I want to. What year? Well, I was born in 51, so let's say it was. It was around there. That's when they did it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You talk about like 50s is before, like this is pre MLK era.

[Ben Cohen]

Yes.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay. And it's a different America today though.

[Ben Cohen]

Well, it's. No, well, the America today is. Has a lot to do with the America of the 1950s and before. So my parents were able to buy that house and that's what helped them build wealth. That's where they got their equity. That's what allowed them to send me to a decent college. That's what allowed them to be in that neighborhood that had good public schools. And there's a lot of other people say black people. That housing program was not available to. They were not able to build that equity. They were not able to build that generational wealth. They were not able to go to decent public schools. And so they didn't get that education. And that's part of what leads to the current situation where if you look at the disparity in wealth between black people and white people, I mean, it's kind of huge. And I mean the whole country was. It goes back generations.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You're comparing Today to the 50s. This is a very different America. I mean, I understand. So the part that I truly want to sympathize with you and empathize with you and understand is the life you've lived. I've not lived your life. So I can't sit there and put myself in your shoes and say, well, you know what? I understand why you have the certain feelings that you have. We all have our own set of stories. I got it. But let's face it, you didn't have enough money where your parents could finance it because you guys had to take a five dollar ice cream course to learn how to do this. So it's not like your parents gave you $200,000. Start a business with now bring it to me. So now how about me? I wasn't born here, right? My parents got a divorce. My dad was a cashier at a 99 cent store. I go in the military and I get out. I had a 1.8 GPA in high school. I'm planning on staying in the military for 20 years. Should I be felt sorry for because my parents got a divorce and I was a welfare kid and I had a 1.8 GPA and I went over there. No, I don't. My dad never felt sorry for me.

[Ben Cohen]

Nobody's talking about feeling sorry for you.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But wait a Minute you're saying generational wealth. You know how much money my parents gave to me? 99 cents. But you know what they gave me? I was born in, I lived here. At 12 years old, I came to America. It's the greatest gift. The greatest gift anybody can give you is being born in America. So you know what I did with that? I went to work and I made some money. And I'm not white and I'm Middle Eastern and I'm from Iran. And people have called me a lot of weird names while I was in the military. They call me terrorists, they call me this, they call me that because I was in the military, because I have a Middle Eastern look that had never seen when I was in Alabama. Do I really want you to feel sorry for me? I don't, I don't. I think the part about like looking at it from that standpoint, your argument is the generational wealth argument. Your parents gave you generational wealth and maybe others didn't get it.

[Ben Cohen]

I'm not saying that they gave me money. I mean they were able to pay for college for me.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Do you think even without college you would have eventually built Ben and Jerry's? What did you learn from college that helped you build Ben and Jerry's? I'm curious.

[Ben Cohen]

Not much.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Thank you. So let's just say they don't pay you for college. Would you have eventually stirred build Ben and Jerry's?

[Ben Cohen]

That what, what I'm getting to is, is the whole, the whole way that the whole environment in which I was brought up, being able to go to really good public schools and you know, I, I go to low income areas in places around our country and the schools are shit.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Why do you think though? Why do you think? Why do you think? Do you really want to go there? It's not going to be good if you really want to go there.

[Ben Cohen]

I assume it's about money and funding.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Do you know out of the top 25 crime cities in America, how many of them are ran by a Democratic mayor? 21 of them. Sometime it's 17, sometimes it's 21.

[Ben Cohen]

Why do you say so? What are you saying? That they're high crime because they're run by a Democratic.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Of course it is.

[Ben Cohen]

Do you know, since D.C. that is the logical policy.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But do you know, I want to.

[Ben Cohen]

Talk about the logical debate.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Please break down my.

[Ben Cohen]

The logical fallacy of post hoc ergo prop to hoc right after it, therefore because of it. That because something happens after something happened doesn't mean that it caused it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Ben can you pull up. What are the top five cities in America? In crime. Pull up the. What are the top five cities in America? In crime. In crime. Let's just. Can you zoom in a little bit? Because my eyes. Yeah, I had Memphis, Tennessee, St. Louis, Detroit, Michigan, Baltimore, Maryland, Little Rock, Arkansas. Can you do me a favor? Keep that page. And can you ask the same question? Who are the mayors of each city, by the way? I don't know this because we're just. We're just spitballing right now. I don't know the answer. I made five of them. May be Republican, and I may look like a fool right now. So do me a favor, Rob. Take each one of them, copy paste Paul Young in Memphis, Tennessee, and just put mayor next to it. Yeah. Is that him? Can you go and see where he's at politically? Democratic Party, top right. Okay, let's go to the next one. Let's go to the next one. Tashara Jones, Mayor. Let's do the same thing. And again, I don't know. She's probably a Republican. Nope, she's a Democrat. Okay, let's go to the next one. Go to the next one.

[Ben Cohen]

I want to know what your point is. Let's assume they're all Democratic. I mean, we know that most cities hold horrible policies.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What's this one? Is this one a Republican? Unaffiliated? Unaffiliated. Can you go click on the guy's profile? Let's go a little bit deeper. If you can go on his Wikipedia. Zoom in. So Detroit, Michigan. Go a little bit lower. Rob, can you. Okay, there it is. Political party, Democrat. He just changed last year after Trump.

[Ben Cohen]

But I want to know what your point is.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Let's go to the next one. I'll make my point. Let's go to Brandon Scott. Baltimore, Baltimore, Maryland, another Democrat. Let's go to the fifth one. What an interesting exercise this was. I wasn't even expecting to do this. Boom. 5, 4, 5, 5, 4, 5. So why. Why do you think that is, though, by the way? D.C. when you think about the biggest income disparity in America, you know what city's the biggest income disparity with the most people making over 200,000 and the most people making less than 20,000. It's D.C. can you look up. When is the first time D.C. had a mayor? When is the first time D. C. Had a mayor? Let's look at this.

[Ben Cohen]

I'm happy to look at it, but I'm concerned that you're making the logical fallacy.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Let's look at this. When's the first time D.C. first ever elected mayor of D.C. rob, can you type in first ever elected mayor of D.C. first ever elected mayor of D. C. I think it's like 70s or something. 73 Walter Washington okay, can you go on Chad GPT and ask since 1973, how many Republican mayors has D.C. had? You don't wake up dreaming of McDonald's fries. You wake up dreaming of McDonald's hash browns. McDonald's breakfast comes first. Would you wear the same shoes for every occasion or rock the same outfit seven days a week? Of course not. Your style is better with options. Your investments could be too. CBOE index options give you access to various contract sizes, global trading hours and potential tax advantages. That's a good look for any portfolio. If you're ready to invest in style, head to betterwithoptions.com There are risks associated with CBOE company products. Review the disclosures and [e-mail] USDISclaimers00 so here's my question for you. If all these people. Look at that. Walter Washington, Democrat Marion Barry, Democrat Sharon Kelly, Democrat Marion Barry Yen, Democrat Anthony Williams, Democrat Adrian Fenty, Democrat Vincent Gray, Democrat Muriel Bowser, Democrat. If they've had this city as a Democratic voter since 1975 and they are so noble and they have such great policies and they're black, how come they haven't been able to fix it? Why?

[Ben Cohen]

I don't know.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You don't know?

[Ben Cohen]

No, I don't.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You don't think maybe it's bad policies? You don't think it's that? Maybe we have to try something else? Well, like what? So let me ask you, why do you think Trump got elected? Why do you think Trump won?

[Ben Cohen]

I think he won because the bottom 50% of the population is getting screwed by both parties.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Both parties?

[Ben Cohen]

Both parties.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Really?

[Ben Cohen]

Yes, I do. Because of the way that our economy is structured, which means that virtually all the money goes to the top and virtually none of the money goes to the people on the bottom.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Why though?

[Ben Cohen]

Because of the laws. Because of the laws and the regulations.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So why? Why do you think so many blacks, why do you think so many Hispanics voted for Trump? Like we've never seen before. So why do you think the poor, low middle income support for Trump skyrocketed where Kamala Harris, who is, according to her, African American, Jamaican, Indian, we don't know what she is, or Biden. Why is it that even with her, she lost seven battleground states and she lost the majority? Why do you think that is? Why do you think Black people and Hispanics trusted a white guy, Trump, Republican more than they trusted an African American lady to solve their problem.

[Ben Cohen]

I think people were really unhappy with the status quo, and I think they voted for not the status quo. I. I actually believe that. That if voting for Bernie was an option, he would have won against Trump. Yeah, because they're both against the status quo. They're both against. Well, I mean, they both say they're against corporations controlling the country. I mean, I personally believe that it's in words only in terms of Trump, but I think. I think in terms of Bernie, I think he genuinely would want, you know, would work on reducing corporate influence. I mean, you know, I mean, the whole. The whole. I mean, when we talk about capitalism, I mean, you know, capitalism ends up having a small number of people accumulate a huge amount of wealth. And then you have the Supreme Court saying that, well, money's the same as free speech, and therefore we can't regulate spending in elections. And what we have in our country is a system of legalized bribery. And it used to be that the corporations and the rich and the wealthy were influencing legislation and they were influencing who gets elected. And now they are who's getting elected? And, you know, I would rather see a representation of what the country actually is. I mean, the country is not just a hundred thousand. Really? 100,000. Yeah. Or, I don't know, 10,000. Really, really wealthy people. The country represents a very broad swath and a representative democracy. That's. That's what there ought to be running the country. But we, you know, we have elections that are financed by millionaires, billionaires, and we end up with a government that favors that class of people.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Does that include Bernie?

[Ben Cohen]

Does that include.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Was Bernie funded by rich people?

[Ben Cohen]

No.

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, he wasn't. Do you remember that exchange when hexed asked him a question? I don't know who it was. Rob, when he says, I don't know who it was, somebody asked him and said, I'm sorry, your campaign, 45% of your campaign was from big pharma. I don't know if you remember that one. Do you remember that one when he was.

[Ben Cohen]

No, I don't remember who. 45% of.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I don't know what the percentage.

[Ben Cohen]

Whose campaign was from big.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Bernie Sanders.

[Ben Cohen]

No, that is absolutely, totally, 100, 1,000% incorrect.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Well, I mean, he got very upset about it because. But even with him. Even with him, here's a socialist that's worth 10 million honors. He's a pretty rich guy. He used to say, millionaires and billionaires now he no longer says millionaires and billionaires. Why did he drop millionaires?

[Ben Cohen]

What?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Banned?

[Ben Cohen]

Because. Because he. He wrote a book and he got a. He got a million dollars or whatever.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You can. You can.

[Ben Cohen]

I mean, but, you know, I mean, I was. I was helping on Bernie's campaign, and.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I think he got screwed, by the way, just so you know, by Hillary Clinton.

[Ben Cohen]

He did, absolutely.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And I like Bernie.

[Ben Cohen]

I do, too.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah. And I just don't think he's good for the economy. I really like Bernie. I think he's a good guy. I just don't think he's good for the economy.

[Ben Cohen]

I think he would be good for an economy that works for all Americans instead of just the upper crust like you and me.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I think in 2000, when you were selling your company, you wouldn't have voted for Bernie.

[Ben Cohen]

Absolutely I would have voted for Bernie. I totally would have voted for Bernie. I voted for Bernie when he was mayor. When he first ran for mayor, Burlington.

[Patrick Bet-David]

If capital gains went to 80% and you sold your company. And you're okay with that?

[Ben Cohen]

Yes, I am okay with that. Because I do not believe that we should have a country where, what, 0.1% of the population owns 90% of it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You're part of the 0.1%. And you don't want to give up your wealth. You're still keeping it. Here's your friend Bernie. Rob, can you play this clip? Watch this clip. Make America healthier than other countries in the world right now.

[Ben Cohen]

Will you guarantee? Do what every other major country does?

[Patrick Bet-David]

It's a simple question. And by the way, Bernie, you know, the problem of corruption is not just in the federal agencies. It's in Congress, too. Almost all the members of this panel are accepting, including yourself, are accepting millions of dollars from the pharmaceutical industry.

[Ben Cohen]

Oh, no.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And protecting their interests. Oh, I thought that that would come.

[Ben Cohen]

No, no, no.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I ran for president like you.

[Ben Cohen]

I got millions and millions of contributions. They did not come from the executives.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Not one nickel of PAC money from the pharmaceutical. They came from workers. 2020. In 2020, you were the single largest. Because I had pharmaceutical money from workers.

[Ben Cohen]

All over this country.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Workers. Not a nickel from corporate. You were the single largest.

[Ben Cohen]

Pharmaceutical dollars from workers in 1.5 million.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah.

[Ben Cohen]

Out of 200 million.

[Patrick Bet-David]

All right, but Bernie didn't like that. You have not answered last question. So, again, the hypocrisy in politics is a little bit frustrating because I understand Bernie says, well, we got to do the millionaires and billionaire class. The moment he becomes a millionaire, he drops A millionaire, he just wants to bash the billionaires. Now. I don't want to take any money. One and a half million comes. The eventual challenges, the hypocrisy that shows up. And I think that's the part that Americans are tired of it. They're just sick of the games that politicians play, and they're eventually saying they're done with it.

[Ben Cohen]

You know, I. When I was working with Bernie, you know, he was saying billionaires should not exist. And, you know, that. That struck me as kind of weird. I mean, I said, why? Why shouldn't billionaires exist? Why shouldn't we have billionaires? And then I realized that nobody needs that kind of money. And how can you accumulate that kind of. Kind of wealth when you've got so many other people that are barely getting by? Why shouldn't we have a system? You know, it is kind of peculiarly American. I don't believe that that kind of spread exists in. In a lot of other countries and a lot of European countries.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, because we actually believe in free enterprise and free market, and we allow you to build it as big as you want. And here's the crazy thing, Ben, very crazy thing.

[Ben Cohen]

I mean, there's free enterprise in any of the Scandinavian countries.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Not at the levels that we have. Not at the levels that we have. We. We. We recognize guys like you who, even if you're a socialist, we recognize guys like you who took a ice cream company.

[Ben Cohen]

Hey, speaking of ice cream, you got a spoon?

[Patrick Bet-David]

You got one, too? I'm good with it. I got you a spoon.

[Ben Cohen]

Well, I don't see the spoon.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Where'd you. Humberto probably took the spoon and he's having ice cream in the back, and so I got mine over here. Humberto, did you leave the spoon or what happened? Okay, which one you think I should try? Tell me which one I should try. We got the chocolate fudge. We got dirt cake. What's this one here? Strawberry cheesecake.

[Ben Cohen]

Well, you know, chocolate fudge brownie is interesting because, by the way, is it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

True that you can't taste flavors, you just taste the. The mushiness texture. Is that serious?

[Ben Cohen]

I'm very texture forward person.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You can't taste any of it?

[Ben Cohen]

Well, you know, I mean, I can kind of taste it, but not. Not the way you can. Not the way normal people can't. So let's see. Yeah, it was pretty good.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Is it.

[Ben Cohen]

You're not taking the chocolate fudge?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Which one you want me. You want me to try? I'll try this.

[Ben Cohen]

No, I'll try This, I mean, the nice thing about the chocolate fudge brownie is that the brownies are made by the Greyston Bakery in Yonkers, New York, a low income area. And the bakery is owned by a religious organization whose purpose. God. It's good, isn't it?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Ben Cohen]

So the purpose of the bakery is to provide jobs and job training for people who.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You know what? After this ice cream, I'm a socialist.

[Ben Cohen]

That'S shut out of it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

There you go. This ice cream converted me.

[Ben Cohen]

All right, all right.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I watched. I was watching Manchurian Candidate last night, Rob, with the kids, and you know. Is that the one about MK Ultra? Whatever. Listen, they put something in this ice cream that causes you to consider Bernie Sanders as a candidate. It's working on me. Watch second by this one. I may even look at this. Mm. Nicely done, aoc. Oh, my God. Holy moly. By the way, all jokes aside, this is absolutely delicious.

[Ben Cohen]

Well, you know, it's at exactly the right temperature. It's perfectly tempered.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Oh, my God. This is ridiculous. Now let me ask you, what do you think about Haagen Dazs?

[Ben Cohen]

It's really good ice cream. Not. Not the best, but it's really good. It's in there.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Who are these guys? But I've never seen this one.

[Ben Cohen]

Is it. I don't know about Tillamook.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Tillamook. Okay. Somebody brought Tillamook.

[Ben Cohen]

Hey, do you know that chocolate chip cookie dough was invented by Ben and Jerry's?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Seriously?

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah, seriously. Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I mean, Ben, what a capitalist you are, though. What a great.

[Ben Cohen]

You know, there's. There's a social form of capitalism. There's a form of capital, and you did it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How many jobs did you guys create? How many jobs did you create?

[Ben Cohen]

Who knows?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Honestly, how many employees you got right now? Ben and Jerry? How many total employees?

[Ben Cohen]

I don't know. I. You know, it's a division of Unilever.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I mean, how many employees does Ben and Jerry's have? It's like the best social program is the job you create. Let me eat this one. So this one is what? This is the cheesecake. Oh, my God. I'm not gonna lie. This is ridiculous. Oh, my. 1700 employees. That's great job. That's jobs. You changed people's lives, Ben.

[Ben Cohen]

Amazing.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And by the way, you know what's crazy? Do you know who recognized you guys in 1986? Which Republican president recognized you?

[Ben Cohen]

Which one would recognize me? I was there, man. Ronald Reagan, Rose Garden ceremony. We were the US Small business people.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How was that It. Is that the picture?

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah, that's exactly it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Tell me about the experience.

[Ben Cohen]

How cool was that an Italian waiter's jacket that I had to buy really quick the morning before? And, you know, it's a rose garden ceremony. What? The current guy, he's talking about paving the Rose Garden. But anyhow, it was a rose garden ceremony. We show up there, you know, Reagan and Bush are standing there, and Reagan says, the only words that he's ever said to me, which is, which one is Jerry? That was it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Which one is Jerry? Now, why did he say, which one is Jerry?

[Ben Cohen]

Ask him. I have no idea.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How cool was that experience for you guys? Did you think that was ever going to happen?

[Ben Cohen]

It was amazing.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Were you. Did you vote for him that year? Did you ever vote for me?

[Ben Cohen]

Have you ever. No, I did not know. As a matter of fact, we were thinking that whoever was supposed to vet who gets the award made a mistake in terms of giving. That's right. That's exactly what it was. I remember it. Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What are you guys telling each other? What are you guys telling each other at the time when you're leaving? Are you saying, like, I cannot believe I shook a Republican's hand. Are you saying, like, what. What are you saying to each other?

[Ben Cohen]

You know, actually, after that ceremony, you know, there was, you know, some kind of dinner and a talk, and you. You know, so I'm up there giving a talk, and I'm talking about, you know, my. My obsession, which is the. How much money the country spends on the Pentagon and preparing to. To kill huge numbers of people. And Alphonse D'Amato gets up after. After I spoke and talked about what an ingrate I was. So who.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Who went up? Who?

[Ben Cohen]

Alphonse D'Amato was a Republican senator, I think. Yeah, put him. Put him up there. I think he got Alphonse D'Amato, I think. Do you have the bit about him being corrupt? I don't know. I'm sure it's in here.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Career columnist. Boom. Keep going lower. Personal life. No, it doesn't say anything about. Maybe there is. What did he do?

[Ben Cohen]

What was the corruption moved him? I don't. I don't remember what his corruption was. Was.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So he had some corruption behind it?

[Ben Cohen]

Yes.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Was he. Was he working. You're saying he worked for Ben and Jerry's?

[Ben Cohen]

No, no, no, no. He was a senator. He was a US Senator.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I forgot we're doing a podcast now. I just can't stop eating this. This ice cream. I'm not even gonna lie. To you, I'm so. So would you consider yourself somebody competitive?

[Ben Cohen]

Competitive?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Are you competitive?

[Ben Cohen]

I'm not very competitive.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Not at all?

[Ben Cohen]

Not very. You know, I mean. I mean, if you want to see who can eat a pint fastest, I'll do that with you. I don't get ice cream headaches.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You don't?

[Ben Cohen]

No.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Is that genetics, DNA, or just like over exhaustion?

[Ben Cohen]

Thank you. Maybe, maybe. Maybe people who can't smell don't get ice cream. I don't know.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Got it. So. So what did you want to talk. You had something you want?

[Ben Cohen]

What are you opening up there?

[Patrick Bet-David]

You don't open this. You are competitive. By the way, I was about to open up Haagen Dazs to go take me back to back, and he got upset. So would you actually have a Haagenaz ice cream or no, you wouldn't do it?

[Ben Cohen]

No.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You won't do it?

[Ben Cohen]

No. I'd watch you.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What's your thoughts like with these other ice cream companies? What do you think about them?

[Ben Cohen]

I think Haagen Dust makes a very high quality ice cream. I think Ben and Jerry's makes a very high quality ice cream.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You guys are number one, though.

[Ben Cohen]

Of course.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Rob, can you pull up the statistics? I think the audience has to know how competitive and how much of a capitalist he is. He's just acting like he's a socialist. Rob, can you pull up, go to, say, the number one ice cream company in America?

[Ben Cohen]

People have to realize what you think.

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, I don't.

[Ben Cohen]

I don't think we could be the number one.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I think you actually are Statista. According to Statista, you are. Private label is one. But you're.

[Ben Cohen]

You're number one.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, you're number one. Look at that. You didn't know this?

[Ben Cohen]

Seriously?

[Patrick Bet-David]

You didn't know this?

[Ben Cohen]

I mean, I know that you.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Dude, you guys are number one.

[Ben Cohen]

It's unbelievable.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But please tell me you're joking right now, that you didn't know you're number one.

[Ben Cohen]

I, you know, people might have said that, but I didn't really believe it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You built the number one ice cream company in America.

[Ben Cohen]

Well, that was in 2022.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Maybe.

[Ben Cohen]

Maybe we're no longer.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You're still, according to statist, still are. That's crazy. That's great.

[Ben Cohen]

That's beautiful.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You think you guys got lucky or you think you work your ass off?

[Ben Cohen]

Both.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay. That there's nothing wrong with that. I've heard the harder you work, the luckier you get. You ever heard that call before?

[Ben Cohen]

I haven't heard that. But I think it makes a lot of sense. So I think there's a lot of people that are working really, really hard and they're not getting lucky.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Well, they got to find a way to create their own luck by adding additional values and principles and skill sets that they can pick up. And I think that nowadays, by the way, Ben, maybe not your time, maybe not your time, okay? But during our time, there's this thing called YouTube where you can literally learn anything. Back in the days, you have to take a course a Rob, can you go type in online how to make an ice cream? Can you, can you go type in on YouTube? Let's see what video comes up. Man, I love talking to capitalists that, you know, love bringing value and competing and being number one and building a billion dollar business. Look at that. Homemade ice cream without a machine. In just five minutes, 28 million views. Did that exist when you were coming up?

[Ben Cohen]

The person was stoned.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But the question is, was that around when you came around?

[Ben Cohen]

No.

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, you had to learn how to do it. Nowadays, all of this is available. And by the way, you know how much it costs to watch that video on YouTube?

[Ben Cohen]

You think just by watching YouTube videos you could make stuff as good as what we're eating now? I don't think so.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I didn't say as good as you, and I say as good as you. So tell me, what's the story with this one? Do I break it or what do I do?

[Ben Cohen]

You got one of those topped ones that has.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What do you want me to do with it?

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah, you're gonna have to break it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

All right, let's try to break it.

[Ben Cohen]

You know, a lot of times people eat it with a metal spoon. It's easier to break.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I gotta tell you, this is my favorite one.

[Ben Cohen]

You can dig underneath it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, what I'm saying is this, even though it's my third one I'm having, this is number one so far.

[Ben Cohen]

You know, you're. You're a good consumer. We, we would classify you as a heavy user and we appreciate people like you.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Oh, no, this is the best one. It's not even close.

[Ben Cohen]

What is that? Dirt?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Dirt cake. It's not even close.

[Ben Cohen]

You know, I've never had dirt. Yeah, pass it over.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This. This is ridiculous. What's this one?

[Ben Cohen]

Cherry Garcia.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Let's see what Cherry Garcia's. Guys, we're sharing ice cream.

[Ben Cohen]

Okay?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Just so everybody knows, for me, I don't mind it because I was in the military. So we will eat off of anybody.

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah, you're right. This is pretty good.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This is. Okay. You want me to rank them? Yeah, I'll rank them. Number one is dirt cake. Number two is strawberry cheesecake. Number three is this guy. What's this one? Chocolate. What does it say? Chocolate fudge brownie.

[Ben Cohen]

You know what? I think that one is even non dairy. I can't believe it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Cherry Garcia.

[Ben Cohen]

That chocolate fudge brownie does not. Doesn't have any dairy.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This doesn't have it.

[Ben Cohen]

You didn't know it when you ate it?

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, it was delicious. But let me tell you, that's the one.

[Ben Cohen]

So you want this back?

[Patrick Bet-David]

No. Listen, I probably shouldn't be eating ice cream right now. We just brought the stuff out here to see if we can get you to eat Haagen Dazs. Because, you know, Haagen Dazs, CMO called us and they gave us a million dollar sponsorship saying if you can get Ben to eat Haagen Dazs, we'll give you a million dollars. Because they're gonna say, even Benny talking to us. Rob, what do you think about, by the way? That would be a great ad?

[Ben Cohen]

I think that would be a really good ad.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Would be a great ad. Can you think about that? No. But yeah, so. Oh, my God. Out of all the things you guys did, by the way, who was the marketing brand? Was it you? Are you the marketing guy? You're the marketing guy. Right?

[Ben Cohen]

Marketing guy.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So when I think about stories that you guys did. So you, you, you did flavors for Stephen Colbert, Jimmy Fallon.

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Snoop Dogg. But you did one for President Bush called I Doe. I Doe. Because of the same sex marriage stuff, which I thought I was funny. Did you come up with that or did.

[Ben Cohen]

Those were all after my time.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, got it. There's a Bill Clinton one called Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough. Was that your time or no?

[Ben Cohen]

Chocolate chip cookie Dough. I didn't realize there was an association. Bill Clinton.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But Monica Whiskey was white, though.

[Ben Cohen]

No, it's like chocolate chip cookie dough was kind of like the last flavor during my reign. Oh, I thought, well, also New York Super Fudge Chunk. Wait a minute. No. There was fish food. That was the very last flavor under. Under my direction, by the way.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You guys also did one by Colin Kaepernick called To Change the World.

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah, that's good.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Change the world. And then you did one with not the Defund the Police. It was called rustic remixed in 2020. For criminal justice. For Black Lives Matter. So I got a question for you. When are you doing a Trump ice cream?

[Ben Cohen]

No plans on the. On the books. That I've seen.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Why not? You can do an orange sherbert. You can do. Right, Rob? I mean, you gave that idea.

[Ben Cohen]

There are, There are opportunities perhaps to lamok or bluebell or Haagen Dazs.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But let me ask you, if. If Ben and Jerry's were to do a Trump ice cream, would the customers be upset?

[Ben Cohen]

Oh, I. Who knows what the customers would be? But I. I wouldn't see that. Well, actually, my understanding is that Ben and Jerry's is nonpartisan, so stop it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How many Republican ice creams have you guys made? You guys have made it for all the left president. You make one for Republican president, do one for Trump, like. But if you.

[Ben Cohen]

You should do one for Trump.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What?

[Ben Cohen]

What? You. You, you ought to come up with Trump Insurance.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Trump Insurance. You're so funny. You're so funny. No, I think he's doing fine, business wise. No, I don't run the insurance company. I'm still the CEO, but it's not what I used to do. By the way, this ice cream, I'm glad we went through this year. What's this one here?

[Ben Cohen]

Oh, Talenti. That's another one.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Is that good or you respect it, or is it like a.

[Ben Cohen]

You know, I haven't really eaten it much.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What's Talenti?

[Ben Cohen]

It's another. Another ice cream.

[Patrick Bet-David]

The way you reacted, you didn't react like the. To Haagen D. So you gave a little bit more love to Talenti. What was that all about? Like? It was like you saw an ex of yours or girl, you know, back in the day. It's like, oh, my God, it's Mary.

[Ben Cohen]

It is. It is another brand that is owned by my parent.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Oh, really?

[Ben Cohen]

You know, it's owned by Unilever.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Oh, so. But is. Does that kind of. Is that like a. I mean, they almost don't want you to have it?

[Ben Cohen]

You know, I guess maybe I reacted that way because, you know, it's a cousin. It's a brand that's owned by my parents, so I'm vaguely related to it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Dude, if I open it up and it pops. Brandon, can you open this up?

[Ben Cohen]

Apparently you're not supposed to eat it. Hey.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Somebody come open this up. I actually want to try it. Rob, can you grab this to someone in the back? Give it to Tony. Tony's the.

[Ben Cohen]

It's nice to have staff, man.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Well, you have 1700 of them.

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah, right.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Let's see if he's gonna get it. He's 28 years old. Will he get it? Still doesn't have it. Who's gonna do it?

[Ben Cohen]

Jesus. That's amazing.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Bring Tony, and Tony will do it. Tony's good with the girls, and he's gonna find a way to use his hands. Tony's. Where's Tony at?

[Ben Cohen]

Seriously, you know. You know, like I told you, I.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Have no idea what direction this podcast go got.

[Ben Cohen]

You've got a.

[Patrick Bet-David]

He lifts weights.

[Ben Cohen]

You've got a video of this we gotta send it to, give it to Tony manufacturer.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You got. You did get it. All right. After a lot of trying.

[Ben Cohen]

To the. The guys who provided the packaging machine.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Tell him, like, do you almost not want me to get in there? It's like.

[Ben Cohen]

And now you've got a delamination of your safety.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Like, I need.

[Ben Cohen]

I need a code. What's the password? Right.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This is too much for me.

[Ben Cohen]

Here, try. Shove that.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That's what I'm gonna do. All right, let's see what we got. So what is this supposed to be? Is this like a gelato?

[Ben Cohen]

I don't really know.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Looks really good. Nowadays, more than ever, the brand you wear reflects and represent who you are. So for us, if you wear a Future looks bright hat or valuetainment gear, you're telling the world, I'm optimistic. I'm excited about what's going to be happening. But you're a free thinker. You question things. You like, debate. And by the way, last year, 120,000 people got a piece of Future Looks Bright geared with valuetainment. We have so many new things. The cufflinks are here. New Future looks Bright. This is my favorite, the green one. Just yesterday, somebody placed an order for a hundred of these. If you watch the PBD podcast, you got a bunch to choose from. White ones, black ones. If you. If you smoke cigars and you come to our cigar lounge, we have this high quality lighter cutter and a holder for the cigars. We got sweaters with the valuetainment logo on it. We got mugs. We got a bunch of different things. But if you believe the future looks bright, if you follow our content and what we represent with valuetainment with PBD podcast, go to vtmerch.com and by the way, if you order right now, there's going to be a special VT gift insight just for you. So again, go to vtmerch.com, place your order, tell the world that you believe the future looks bright. Tastes like medicine. The hell is this? This is salted caramel truffle. This is a bad look. They're not gonna. They're gonna have to edit this Video.

[Ben Cohen]

Because.

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, doesn't work for me. No, this is fifth place. Well, maybe the cherry is fifth place because I'm not a. Oh, because you're into the dirt. Yeah, the dirt was delish. So.

[Ben Cohen]

All right, here.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, this is for me. Thank you. So, going back to it, building a business. How many people have you fired in your career?

[Ben Cohen]

A lot.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Why you fire people? These poor guys. Why you do such a thing?

[Ben Cohen]

Well, in the early days, they were. You know, we were. All we had was a homemade ice cream shop, and most of the people that we hired were scoopers, and some scoopers were, like, really personable people who would have a lot of conversations with the customers, but that would kind of slow down the line. And, you know, we couldn't. You know, we couldn't satisfy our customers. We couldn't. Couldn't serve enough people. So we. We had a fire. You know, people who engaged in too much conversation with the customer. I mean, you want to be friendly with your customer, but, you know, you don't want to take it too far.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Did you ever have lazy employees?

[Ben Cohen]

Lazy employees? We had. We had employees that worked at one speed, and it was slow. They're really nice people. They were really good people.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Why'd you fire them, though, man? That's cold. It's like capitalists fire people. Socialists don't fire people. Ben, give me a break. Like, look, if you were a former employee that Ben fired you and broke your heart, call me. Let's have some Haagen Dazs ice cream together. Right?

[Ben Cohen]

You know. You know, I would fire some of these, by the way, just so, you.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Know, don't feel bad. I fired a lot of people as well. And trust me, it's never fun to do, but sometimes you got to do it right.

[Ben Cohen]

It's a. It's a horrible thing to do. You know, I mean, sometimes when, you know, Jerry and I knew that, you know, somebody needed to get fired, we would. I would be the guy who did the firing.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Seriously?

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah. We would say, the monster is hungry. The monster must eat. And. And it was, you know, meant that that was a person that needed to be fired.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You guys literally would go in front of the face of the guy you're firing. You would say, the monster.

[Ben Cohen]

We were referring to me. I'm the fire. The. And. But, but, but, but, but. But some. But sometimes. Sometimes, you know, it was college students, and it would be a woman, and you fired women. And she. And she would start crying, and I would say, you know, you're a college student. This is Just, you know, a Scooping ice cream. This is a bullshit little job that you're doing to get through college. This is not a big thing. This is not.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But they're emotional.

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

People.

[Ben Cohen]

You know, I've been fired from a few jobs, and I actually kind of like it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Where'd you get fired?

[Ben Cohen]

It's very freeing.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Where'd you get fired from?

[Ben Cohen]

I got fired from Anne's Coffee Park Diner.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Who fired you? We got to go find this person.

[Ben Cohen]

Anne's husband.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Anne's husband.

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Shame on him.

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah. I was a short order cook working in the back there. And, you know, you got your steam table, and, you know, somebody orders, you know, a hot roast beef sandwich. So you open up the refrigerator, you get, you know, the. The pre sliced slabs of roast beef out of the refrigerator. You. You dunk it in this lukewarm water to warm it up. And, you know, you have your white bread on the platter and you kind of put it on it and put the gravy on top of it. And, you know, we were also doing prep work, and after the, after the, the lunch rush, there wasn't as much money coming into the cash register. And Ann would turn off half the lights in the kitchen because she wanted to keep her expenses in line with the income. And I was trying to explain to her that, you know, we're working with sharp knives back here. We'd. We'd like to be able to see what we're doing. And this went back and forth, and she would shut off the lights and I'd turn them back on and eventually.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How old were you when you got fired? Were you in your 20s? Like, were you? Yeah, I got fired once.

[Ben Cohen]

What were you doing or not? Oh, Bob's Big Boy.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, Bob's Big Boy. In Burbank or Glendale, off of Glen Oaks. You know why I got fired? They had a walk in freezer, and I used to hide in the walk in freezer and eat coleslaw. And I got caught one too many times. And the guy's like, look, man, you casted the coleslaw so good. It was the best coleslaw. And finally they're like, today's your last day. So I got fired from Bob's Big Boy eating coleslaw. Can't make that story up. That's. You know, the people that work there, they. They would remember me when that happened because they wouldn't even make me a waiter. They said, you talk too much. I was a bus boy. I was the bus boy the entire time. And I Got along with the chefs and the chefs would make me shrimp. And shrimp, when you're poor, it's rich man's food. You know, when you eat shrimp, when you're broke, making 475 an hour. My first job was 375 or 425. I don't know what Elaine paid me from Haagen Dazs, but It was either 375 or 425. You know, I got a chance to. Bill Clinton came to Glendale Galleria and I got a chance to shake his hand at 14 years old. Met him later on, but as a 14 year old, met Clinton, shook his hand. So how do you feel about what's going on right now with Doge, what Elon is doing? Pentagon budget. How do you feel about all that stuff?

[Ben Cohen]

You know, when Trump got elected and when Doge came into being, we were concerned that Doge might overlook the hugest source of waste in the federal budget, which happens to be in the Pentagon budget. You know, these, these other little slivers are pretty much small potatoes. I mean, you know, there was this big hubbub about usaid, but compared to the Pentagon, you know, I think USAID is about 5% of the, of the Pentagon budget. The Pentagon represents about half of the, of the federal discretionary budget. So we wanted to make sure that Elon didn't ignore that. And so we started the doge versus blob.org campaign, which is kind of on X. And it is to encourage. Is this it there? It is. It's the Doge. Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And you did this. This is you guys.

[Ben Cohen]

This is us guys.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Really?

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah, yeah, this is me and Ed Erickson and yeah, if you, if you. So, so it's Doge. You know who Doge is. And there's the Blob, which is another name for the whole military industrial complex. The, the Pentagon and the war profiteers. And as you can see, the Blob has invaded the capital. And if you scroll down, you can win Dogecoins for coming up with these memes that refer to the various kinds of waste that are in the Pentagon budget. So there's the facts that slay. So here's the, here's the content. And the idea for the contest is to come up with a, with a meme that talks about some of these ridiculous, wasteful pentagon spend items.

[Patrick Bet-David]

$5,700 for soap dispenser you can snag at Amazon for seven bucks. Air Force spent 10 grand for a toilet seat to cover low cells for 28 bucks. Pentagon paid $4,300 for a single half inch metal screw. The value is a buck 38.

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah. Now that's the, that's the, the small potatoes. You know, you get into nuclear weapons and you know, we had, you know, we exploded one nuclear bomb on Hiroshima. It killed 100,000 people instantly and then another hundred thousand eventually died from radiation poisoning and sickness. Huge number of people with, with burns all over their body, amputations, blindness, deafness. That was one nuclear bomb. And today the arsenal in the US is huge. As a matter of fact, I have a little demonstration. Please, can I do this? I'm going to show you the size of our, of our nuclear arsenal.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What is that you got there? BB.

[Ben Cohen]

These are BBs, right? I'm going to toss them in this bucket. So here's one BB that represents. Let me just move this over here so I can. Here's one BB that represents the bomb that blew up over Hiroshima. And now here's 15 duties that would be enough to blow up every major city in say Russia. And what I want to do now is show the amount of our total nuclear arsenal.

[Patrick Bet-David]

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[Ben Cohen]

So that's the equivalent of 50,000 Hiroshima bombs. That is the current explosive capacity of the US nuclear arsenal. Not only that, the country is now preparing to spend another $2 trillion on a whole new generation of nuclear weapons. Now that is sick. It's immoral, it's crazy, it's irrational and it is a huge waste of money and lives. It's unbelievable and it is, it is just a indicator. It's a window into the general Pentagon war profiteer mentality that more is better if one nuclear bomb is good. Gob's more must be better. And what really slays me about it is the incredible waste of resources and the effect that it has on our spirits, our soul as a nation that we're spending 50% of our discretionary budget on preparing to kill gobs of people. I mean, you know, the Vatican came out with this statement that the arms race, even if the weapons are never used, kills the poor by causing them to starve. Our pentagon budget is $900 billion a year. You know, one of the reasons I got into this is because, I mean, you talk about a billion. Nobody has any conception of how much a billion is. And Ben and Jerry's got up to a level of around 300 million before it got sold. And I started to understand that, well, a billion is three times the business we were doing. And that amount of money is just unbelievable. And that's just 1 billion. You know how many years you'd have to live before you lived a billion seconds? Plug that into your machine and try. It's about 30. So that's how much a billion is? 30. 30 years of seconds. And we take that much, and we take 900 billion. And we use that preparing to kill people like you and me. Fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, sons, daughters in other countries who just had the bad luck of being born on some other side of some imaginary line. When, I mean, I think the US Is the richest country in the history of the world. I think we need to start to measure our strength in terms of how many people we can care for, how much we can improve the quality of life for people as opposed to killing people.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So, okay, that was a very interesting visual to see. What we did versus what it is now. Absolutely insane. How much more do we have? So, but if we were to ask the question, I mean, this has been going on over a long time. Why do you think we've been doing it? Why do you think we are increasing our nuclear capabilities the way that we are? What's the purpose of it?

[Ben Cohen]

Profit?

[Patrick Bet-David]

You think it's purely the military industrial complex.

[Ben Cohen]

I think a lot of it is driven by that. I think another part is driven by politicians who are deathly afraid of being called weak on defense. And, you know, a lot of this stuff is. Is kind of complex. You know, it's international relations. You know, how do we know how many aircraft carriers we actually need, Et cetera, et cetera. So what ends up happening is that military strength becomes measured in terms of the size of The Pentagon budget and politicians try to outdo each other from both parties. This is like the one bipartisan area of agreement over the years. The Democrat says, I'm gonna spend X amount on the Pentagon, while the Republican says, well, I'll spend a little more. And then the Democrat says, well, I'll spend a little more. And therefore, they're the strongest on defense. You know, before this, I was doing a little prep work. I saw this quote by Eisenhower, Republican President Eisenhower, what was it? Four star general, five star general, who said that a country can bankrupt itself in the vain effort to achieve absolute security. You can't achieve absolute security, but continuing to spend our money. I mean, when you think about how much the size of the deficit, so much of that is driven by Pentagon expenditures, war expenditures. I mean, you know what? One of the. I mean, the major thing that kind of brought me here is Trump's statement that he wants to denuclearize. He wants to work with the leaders of Russia and I think now Iran and, And China to reduce nuclear weapons, and that he wants to reduce our Pentagon budget very significantly. I mean, he said 50%. I mean, that makes so much sense. I mean, all these countries, they want to help the people who live in their countries. And when you're spending so much of your money on just preparing to kill other people and the weapons are so fucking expensive, you should excuse me. It just saps everything you've got. It saps your wealth.

[Patrick Bet-David]

We're on the same page here, so you're not saying anything that we are fully on the same page. The fact that we are overspending the level of Pentagon accountability. Rob, if you can play one of the clips of the guy saying 90,000 autos for washers just to validate his point, go for it.

[Ben Cohen]

This, Mr. Secretary, is a bag of Bushings. This bag of bushings stamped out by machinists. Don't need a heist. Don't need a, you know, high school diploma.

[Patrick Bet-David]

It's not.

[Ben Cohen]

Not anything high tech about this. All of this bag is compliant with the FAA specifications. How much do you think the Air Force pays for this bag of bushings? I don't know, Congressman. $90,000.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This is a $90,000 bag of bushings.

[Ben Cohen]

That you need for any jet turbine engine just to operate. So the exorbitant cost due to DoD only buying commercial parts from the OEMs, which is essentially sole source, is literally.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Driving us out of business.

[Ben Cohen]

I mean, the interest on our debt alone is now exceeding for the first time in American history, the entire Defense budget, We can't afford it anymore. Exactly right. And, you know, the, the example that he gave of those washers is really excellent because we all know what a washer costs. But then when you get into things like the F35 program, a fighter bomber jet, that is hugely flawed. You know, it's a little more complex to understand it, but it's the same pricing, it's the same overly inflated prices. You know, that, that fighter program, that weapon system costs 1.5 trillion, and it doesn't work. I mean, it's, it's in the shop over 50% of the time. But the. What, what you have going on, the corruption in the Pentagon, is that the, the generals that are supervising these contracts with the weapons manufacturers, when they retire, they go to work for the weapons manufacturer, and, you know, they're incentivized to look the other way at all this price gouging.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, so then what this tells me is you're agreeing what the president is trying to do, Trump, to save from wasted expenditure. You like what Musk is doing, you like what he's doing to go to the table with Putin and Russia and, hey, find ways to lower everybody's commitment with nuclear weapons. That's you're talking about. So you're liking what President Trump is.

[Ben Cohen]

Doing in terms of the Pentagon budget and in terms of nuclear weapons and in terms of the idea of, of solving our problems in ways other than killing huge numbers of people. I mean, Trump has said. I want to be clear that there's a shitload of things that I disagree with Trump on, but there are some things that I do agree with him on. And he has said that if he were president, there never would have been a war in Ukraine. And do you agree with him? I do. I think that the war in Ukraine was absurd. I think the US Provoked it, and by expanding NATO. And I think Russia was essentially saying the US Has a sphere of influence. It happens to be the entire world. Russia wants a little sphere of influence. You know, don't put, you know, weapons aimed at us in this neighboring country.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What, do you disagree with them? What do you disagree with the president?

[Ben Cohen]

You know, there's a, there's a very long list.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Did you vote for him?

[Ben Cohen]

No.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You voted for Kamala?

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Did you vote for Biden?

[Ben Cohen]

I think so.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, so you voted for Biden. You think Trump would have stopped the war if he was president, but then, yet still you still voted for Kamala. What prompted you want to vote for Kamala over Trump, even though you know he could stop the war.

[Ben Cohen]

You know, in. In general, I think of. A big part of what I believe is that I think there's a real lack of compassion. I think there's a lack of honesty.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Can you be specific? You can't just say that and not give me specific. You got to be pretty specific. What do you mean by lack of compassion and dishonesty? Because Kamala Harris always tells the truth, and we know Joe does. Always. They never lie. But what do you. What do you think with Trump?

[Ben Cohen]

You know, I just think there's a long list of things that he's lied about that I don't have off the tip of my tongue. And.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Could you.

[Ben Cohen]

And. And I think, you know, I'm. I believe strongly in racial justice, and I don't think that Trump does racial justice.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, he was the first guy that did the prison reform that even Van Jones went and stood behind him crying, saying, I cannot believe this just happened. He did that.

[Ben Cohen]

What? This was the first.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You don't remember that? Do you remember that, or. No?

[Ben Cohen]

I. Yeah, I do.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah. I mean, if there's anybody that's about, you know, the racial injustice side, it's Trump. It's not, you know, this is a guy that's done a very good job in that. But I want to know specific from your side. What is it? Because you're not a. You know, when you're as successful as you are, you can't wing answers. You cannot wing answers. Let me tell you why you can't wing answers. Because how many. Like, if I was to check right now. Rob, can you go to chat gbt. How many businesses. How many businesses in America went from zero to a billion dollars in revenue? Okay, so if we go. How many business go from zero to a billion dollars in revenue? The exact number fast grow. I want to know how many total companies is what I want to know. Can you see that? How many total companies have gone from zero to a billion dollars in revenue? Okay, it's got to be a big number. I don't know if they have the number or not. It's got to be a lot of them. Okay. You build the number one ice cream company in America. Yeah. You can say luck. You're very creative. Just right now, you did that. You know, your mind is a creative mind to come up with certain things. You can't just say lies and certain things and not be specific. I guess maybe the question is better to ask you the following following way. Who inspired you politically when you were younger? Like, who was your hero when you were a kid.

[Ben Cohen]

Martin Luther King.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Martin Luther King. He was your hero.

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Why was he your hero?

[Ben Cohen]

Because he was fighting for justice and, you know, fighting for people who had been oppressed and screwed. And. And he. He was a very, you know, a really inspirational leader.

[Patrick Bet-David]

He was an inspirational leader to you. Okay. Who else? Was there a book that you read? Was there something that influenced your politics? Did you read Communist Manifesto?

[Ben Cohen]

No.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You've never read Communist Manifesto? I've read the book.

[Ben Cohen]

How is it you've never read it? No.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Ben, what can I say? Okay. All right, well, listen, you're missing out on that.

[Ben Cohen]

Read what you read. I was probably reading books.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I think if you read communist manifestations, that you may go to communism. I mean, you're one step away from socialism. But was there anything. Was there anything.

[Ben Cohen]

I want to know why you're so. I mean, socialism is a. Is a word that gets used to refer to a lot of different things.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah.

[Ben Cohen]

And, you know, so I. I think the old or official definition of socialism is that the state owns all the means of production. I mean, I. I don't. I don't favor that, But I favor 80% taxes, marginal tax rate. Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So you think. Let's process that. I'm actually curious to know what you'll say here. So when somebody like you says 80% taxes, you know what you're really saying? You think the US Government can do better with our money than we can do with our money? That's what you're saying? You think Congress and Senate can do better with our taxpayer money than we can?

[Ben Cohen]

Well, you know, if you had a marginal tax rate of 80% on the, you know, millionaires and above, you wouldn't have so many people with so much money that were influencing our elections and our legislation in order to make it better for their own selves. So, yeah, I think that it would certainly decrease the spread between rich and poor. And I think. I mean, you think about education, you think about childcare, you think about health care.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah.

[Ben Cohen]

These are things that, you know, especially things like Medicare for All. It needs to be. Some things need to be done by. By the government.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, so let me get this straight. And so just 10 minutes ago, you are speaking to the audience who is loving watching you, and you showed how much the government wastes money. Then ten minutes later you say you trust our money going to the government, that they'll do a better job than staying in our pocket. Do you know the average person watching this, they're so confused right now. They're about to have a drink right now, that's a confuser. You just confuse the shit out of them. They're sitting there saying, so let me understand you, and I really want to understand you. Like you, I eat your ice cream, seem like a really nice. And you sincerely seem like a nice guy, and I'm really enjoying this. How can you one minute say the government wastes money and next minute say, let's pay more money because we think they can do a better job with it?

[Ben Cohen]

Because I think that both things are true. I mean, you know, I mean, I think about my own business, you know, as Ben and Jerry's was getting larger and larger, I was saying, we're wasting all this money. You know, this thing is wrong. That thing is wrong. It's leaking over here. It's. You know, there's a. Something that's not working right over there. I couldn't believe how much money was being wasted, okay? And then I came to understand that, yeah, there's some waste in most anything that human beings do.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But there's one tricky thing here. Why do you think you were overly protective of the money that was being wasted? Why?

[Ben Cohen]

Because I needed to make a profit?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Because it's your money. Well, it's your money. That's why. Because you busted your ass to make that money to create jobs. So now imagine these guys are spending $90,000 on a bag of washers that at Lowe's I can buy for 329, okay? You want me to trust them to raise taxes? Hell to the no. When I see Doge and I see the money stuff, that comes back. You know what I tell myself? How soon are you guys lowering taxes? Because you guys have no clue what you're doing with our money. That's what it makes me think about. Why would I give you more money that you have shown over and over again that you like to waste it? Because. So you give them more money. You don't think there's going to be more military contractors? You don't think there's going to be more big pharma coming in, wanting contracts for people to get unhealthy so they can sell $100 billion of vaccines? So Pfizer's revenue goes up $100 billion. You think Covid helped that Pfizer? You think Covid was a very good event for Pfizer stock? What do you think? You think Covid. You know, Rob, isn't it true that even Pfizer Co. Didn't even take the vaccine? But, hey, the rest of us had To. You think that was a profitable event for them? You think they want another Covid? You think they want another pandemic? Of course. Why? Because the money goes. You know, there was one of the guys from the big pharmaceutical companies that never took the vaccine. I just don't know which one it was. You don't think that funnels back through? No, I think the American people, the reason why they love Doge is because they're done with wasted expenditure and they don't trust the government. It's the lowest, Ben, it's ever been. You've been around since you said you were born in 1951. I think you said 51, right? Did you say 51? A lot of wasted money from 51 till today. Look at the year you were born. Look at the trust. It was. 80% is where we hit. Look where it's at right now, okay? Lowest it's ever been. What happened? They don't trust it. They don't trust the media. They don't trust the government because they're full of shit. They keep wasting our money. And you want to sit here? You know what I'd love to see you do? Go run on the campaign of raising taxes to 80% marginal. See what happens today. Let's have Bernie Sanders go campaign and see what happens today.

[Ben Cohen]

Who's going to be against raising taxes to 80% marginal on incomes over several million doll dollars?

[Patrick Bet-David]

A lot of people. It's my money.

[Ben Cohen]

Why should I give it to you? How many, by the way?

[Patrick Bet-David]

The people that are creating commerce who want to mind their own business like you used to when you ran your business and you try to create savings, those people are going to mind. It's easy for you to say right now. You're, you know, you're in your 70s and you've already made your money to say, hey, let's do it to the guys now. I didn't get it. Now let me do it to the other guys.

[Ben Cohen]

That's not fair, you know, pick a number. Pick a number. That's a reasonable number.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You have to earn the right to raise taxes. The government has to earn the moral authority to be able to say, let's raise taxes. How do you earn the moral authority? By showing what you do with the money. Seven years, Pentagon hasn't been able to show our audits. They failed an audit seven years in a row. You want us to trust the US Government?

[Ben Cohen]

There are some functions that government needs to perform. You know, I don't disagree.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But not as much money as you want us to Give to you?

[Ben Cohen]

Well, I mean, half the discretionary budget is going to the Pentagon. Let's cut that. You know, I'm not suggesting we totally eliminate all weapons.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I think the President is wanting to cut. This is why he wants so many Democrats. Can you imagine, Were you a John F. Kennedy fan when you were younger?

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You know, his nephew went to the other side. You know, his nephew who loved his dad and loved his uncle, became an addict for 14 years because he lost his dad and we almost lost Bobby. He eventually got so sick of what the left did and he went to the other side. So did Tulsi, so did Trump. Trump used to be a Democrat. So did Musk. Musk used to be a Democrat. So did Rogan. Yorkan used to be a Democrat. He may still be. I mean, this is the most devastating season ever for Democrats ever. Every state turned more Republican. 89 counties turned more Republican. 7 battleground states majority went to him. The last time that happened was 20 some years ago. This is one of those moments where Americans sat there and watched. The Democrats had control during COVID and they tried to abuse Americans and they said, leave us the alone. Leave us alone. I don't want you to force me to do anything. And for you, Ben, a successful man like you that built an incredible business that the rest of us get to smile. You make people smile. Every time somebody has your product, they are smiling. They're happy. You know what is the most happiest moment of my week? When I get to take my daughter to this ice cream shop in Fort Lauderdale and she eats her ice cream and her reaction, I melt. You produced a product that put millions of smile on millions of people's faces. That's what you produce because you worked your ass off and you took advantage of the opportunities that they gave you. You saved every penny so you can pay your people better to create a better company. You're a hero. You're a hero. And the other side likes you because you give them money. But if you didn't and you were Republican, you would be despised by the other side. You'd be considered a rich, greedy man. And all you ever did is start a company with your best friend and turn it into what you turn it into. And that's not cool. It's not cool. It's not cool that just because somebody has a dream and they go work hard and I'm supposed to go out there and feel guilty about it. I'm sick of it. I'm sick of them making success feel guilty. And hey, you make too much money. You're a billionaire. You're a bad person. You're this, you're that. Let's recognize our heroes. Let's start, like, stop, like, undermining anybody and everybody that they win. We just tarnish, tarnish, tarnish, tarnish, tarnish. Oh, he's a horrible man. Tarnish, tarnish. Stop it.

[Ben Cohen]

I'm not about tarnishing people.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I'm not saying you. But it's a lot of people on the left, and it's enough. It's enough. It's too much. And people. Honestly, though, people are tired of it. That's what happened in 2024, on November 5th.

[Ben Cohen]

You know, I think a lot of what happened is that people were voting for something different. I mean, a lot of times you look at presidential elections, and it's choosing between the least worst and, you know, Trump, I don't regard him really, as a Republican.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I don't either.

[Ben Cohen]

I don't regard him as a Democrat. He, you know, I think. I think he's kind of more of an independent.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I agree.

[Ben Cohen]

And. And I think that's what people want.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I agree.

[Ben Cohen]

They want someone who's not the status quo, not the. Not the norm. And the only choice they had was Trump.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I agree. I agree. And by the way, you know, what's the. What's the other thing that they were sick of? Sick and tired of? Did you watch the State of the Union?

[Ben Cohen]

No.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, so there was multiple moments that were embarrassing. One moment where the ladies on the left are wearing all these pink outfits, and President Trump says, we want to keep boys out of women's sports. None of them stood up or clapped for it. Do you agree that transgender should be competing against men against women? Do you sincerely. You think Martin Luther King, your hero, would agree with that? You think Martin Luther King would have said, yeah, you're a man. You were born a man. Yeah. So you want to go compete with women? Yeah. Yeah. No problem with that. You think Martin Luther King, who said, one day, we're black boys and white. No. You think that man would be okay with puberty? Blockers? Seriously, you think your hero would be okay with puberty? I don't think so. You don't have a painting in my house. You know who's in my painting? John F. Kennedy. Martin Luther King, two of my heroes. Every time I've ever had an office, I've always had a picture of Martin Luther King there. He's a hero to so many of us. I just don't think he would have been with that, and then you want to teach my kids lgbtq. If a person wants to be gay, go at it. I don't have any problem with it. But we don't need to sit there and indoctrinate. Leave it alone. That's the painting. Martin Luther King all the way to the right. Have Tupac in the painting. Have John F. Kennedy, have Einstein, have Lincoln, have Milton Friedman, DeShaw, Senna, and a couple hidden messages in there. You know what's sitting on the table? They're debating a book. It's Communist Manifesto and Atlas Shrugged. Representation from both sides of the economy. Sit down and debate that. That's the painting in my clubroom, in my house. 15 foot painting. But to me, I'd love to see someone who. For you to build a business the way you did, you have to know how to reason and use logic. If you don't, you will fail. You'll be bankrupt.

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah. You know, I like that painting. I do, too. You know what strikes me is Einstein when you talk about logic. I mean, he said that it is not possible to simultaneously prevent and prepare for war. I think that is really, really true. I mean, the quote goes on to say that the very energy and resources that are necessary for the prevention of war are actually greater than preparing for war. So if you're going to prevent it, you. You need to use those resources to prevent it. And.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What?

[Ben Cohen]

You. How'd you do this?

[Patrick Bet-David]

What?

[Ben Cohen]

Telepathy?

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, it's Rob. That's why rob doesn't make 725 an hour.

[Ben Cohen]

I can't.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I can't give him only 725.

[Ben Cohen]

From my mind to your screen, Man, I love it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Last thing before we wrap up. What do you think about Hamas and Israel, the war? And do you have any opinions on that?

[Ben Cohen]

I think it is a genocide. I think it's awful. Horrible to a guy who's. Who's getting killed. I don't think it matters whether it's in a gas chamber or because it was a bomb dropped on his head. I don't. I'm just hugely opposed to taking weapons and slaughtering people. It's absurd. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm also hugely opposed to what happened on October 7th with, you know, with people coming in and slaughtering people in Israel. But I totally don't believe that it, that it justifies slaughtering an entire population.

[Patrick Bet-David]

It's about to get very ugly after what the President put out there. I don't know if you saw this or not. Did you see this? Shalom. Hamas means hello and goodbye. You can choose. Release all the hostages now or later. Not later. And immediately return all of the dead bodies of the people you murdered, or it's over for you. Only sick and twisted people keep bodies. And you are sick and twisted. I'm sending Israel everything it needs to finish the job. Not a single Hamas member will be safe if you don't do as I say. I have just met with your former hostages whose lives you have destroyed. This is your last warning for the leadership. Now is the time to leave Gaza while you still have a chance. Also, to the people of Gaza, beautiful future awaits you. But not if you hold hostages. If you do, you are dead. Make a smart decision. Release the hostages now, or there will be hell to pay later. How do you feel about that? Campfire season's back, and that means s'mores. But when you're at home treating yourself. Take them over ice with Duncan S'mores culprit. Concentrate. And suddenly you're always treating yourself. The home with Dunkin'is where you want to be. Click or tap the banner to shop now.

[Ben Cohen]

This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. It's tax season, and we're all a bit tired of numbers, but here's one you need to hear. $16.5 billion.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That's how much the IRS flagged for.

[Ben Cohen]

Possible identity fraud last year. Now here's a good number. 100 million. That's how many data points Lifelock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it, guaranteed. Save up to 40% your first [e-mail] podcast terms apply. I believe the hostages should be released. I do not believe that we should be slaughtering people.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So what if they don't release the hostages? So, Ben, maybe you have a better strategy. How do you get them to release the hostages? Share it with us?

[Ben Cohen]

I don't know, honestly.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So what should he do? Should he send a case of ice cream? Guys, release them. Here's Ben and Jerry's. Maybe he sends the dark chocolate. What is it called? Dirt. Dirt cake. My favorite. They may not like that because it's, you know, dirt cake, so. But what, what do they.

[Ben Cohen]

I, you know, I, I don't, I don't have a solution.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Could it be because as a leader, you have a position that sometimes you have to make a tough decision that the average person will not understand, and there's burden that comes with being a president.

[Ben Cohen]

Well, I, I, I, I definitely, I, I agree that, that there are times when you need to make tough decisions as a leader.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Do you have kids?

[Ben Cohen]

I do.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I do as well. If one of those hostages, God forbid, were our kids, how soon would you want them to make a move so they return to you so you can hug them again?

[Ben Cohen]

I'm not looking to. I wouldn't say, return my kid or I'll slaughter thousands of people.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So you would sacrifice your daughter or your son if they stay there?

[Ben Cohen]

I wouldn't sacrifice my daughter.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Every day they're there. Their days are numbered. Each day they're there. Your imagination, you're a great marketer. In your imagination as a father, you're imagining what they're doing to your daughter. You're okay with that?

[Ben Cohen]

I'm not okay with it. You know, I don't know what the solution to the problem is.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That's why it's tough. Yeah, it's tough. It's tough. And so no matter what he does, he's gonna have hate. But he's gotta make a decision. This is why being a leader is not for everybody, especially being a president. It's a lot of burden that comes with it. Especially president like him that's actually making decisions that a lot of people are giving him a hard time with. And now he's got a big support. Big people that are sitting there saying, let's go, Ben, I can tell you one thing. I had no idea where we were going to go. Honestly, I had a blast with you.

[Ben Cohen]

I had a good time.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I so appreciate you for reaching out. I hope we stay in contact. And I have friends in Vermont that I go to. And I stay at this house. My good friend. I'll give a shout out to them. Mehran Asadi, who is the CEO of National Life Group and incredible man. I don't know if you've met him before or not. He's been to your place before. Phenomenal, Father. He's a great CEO. And I've been to Vermont just to visit him. Mehran Asadi. He has a Persian accent. He doesn't like it when I say that, but he is a. He's a very, very, very dear friend of mine. So, anyways.

[Ben Cohen]

Well, let me know when you're in town.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I will.

[Ben Cohen]

I didn't get to show you all of my toys.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Oh, what is it? What do you get? Yeah, tell me what's.

[Ben Cohen]

What do you got one of my toys? This is a limited edition Ben and Jerry's Ramp Walker. There's no batteries. There's no. Nothing to wind up Waddles. Let me see if we can Hear? I set it up for you. Here, See me, I'm moving.

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, go for it. Do it.

[Ben Cohen]

Go on. Go. Go on, guys.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Oh, wow.

[Ben Cohen]

Isn't that cool?

[Patrick Bet-David]

That is super cool.

[Ben Cohen]

They don't go off.

[Patrick Bet-David]

They, they always get out of here.

[Ben Cohen]

They know they've got a. Look at these guys and it's low tech. It's not like I've got a sensor or.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This is crazy. So it's not battery generated? Generated?

[Ben Cohen]

No, no, no. This is.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Wow.

[Ben Cohen]

You know when these first came out 20 years ago, 25 years ago.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That's cool.

[Ben Cohen]

People weren't that crazy about it, but now that everything is all high tech.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And everything, they like this.

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah, it's retro.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Can I have it?

[Ben Cohen]

Can you have it, baby? This is yours. Got your name on it. Not only that, I'm giving you one that's totally unopened.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Oh, you're amazing.

[Ben Cohen]

You know, ebay, you know when, when your business goes down to the tube, you sell that on ebay. You know, we'll get rid of the capital gains tax. Listen, and you're amazing, right?

[Patrick Bet-David]

You're amazing.

[Ben Cohen]

All right, here's my other toy. What, your pens? Don't do this.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Dude, that is pretty sick.

[Ben Cohen]

I mean, you know, you go around selling insurance with this thing, but this one here talks about global military spending. You know, here's how much the US spends, here's how much China spends, here's how much Russia spends. They got close up lines on that thing. And here's how.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Do you see it or no, here, let me show you. Do you see it, Rob? It's pretty sick. That is cool. I love this.

[Ben Cohen]

All right. Don't say I never gave you nothing.

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, no, I have. Look, you're going to leave and I'm going to say great things about you, but I'm going to to say when you leave, I, I, I'm very glad that President Trump finally has your support. It's great to, to see that. You know, all it took was a podcast.

[Ben Cohen]

Qualified.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Sir. Truly an honor to meet you. Truly an honor to meet you. I appreciate you for coming out. Really enjoyed it, gang. I hope you enjoyed it as well. Just so you know, if you're going to go buy ice cream, this is my favorite flavor out of all of them. God bless everybody. Take care. Bye bye. Bye bye. Nowadays, more than ever, the brand you wear, reflects and represent who you are. So for us, if you wear a future looks, bright hat or valuetainment gear, you're telling the world, I'm optimistic, I'm excited. About what's going to be happening. But you're a free thinker, you question things, you like, debate. And by the way, last year 120,000 people got a piece of Future Looks Bright geared with valuetainment. We have so many new things. The cufflinks are here. New Future looks bright. This is my favorite, the green one. Just yesterday, somebody placed an order for a hundred of these. If you watch the PBD podcast, you got a bunch to choose from. White ones, black ones. If you, if you, if you smoke cigars and you come to our cigar lounge, we have this high quality lighter cutter and a holder for the cigars. We got sweaters with the valuetainment logo on it. We got mugs, we got a bunch of different things. But if you believe the future looks bright, if you follow our content and what we represent with valuetainment with PVD podcast, go to vtmerch.com and by the way, if you order right now, there's going to be a special VT gift insight just for you. So again, go to vtmerch.com, place your order, tell the world that you believe the future looks bright.