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"Couldn't Win Without Me" - Scottie Pippen BREAKS SILENCE On Jordan, NBA Legacy & Bulls Dynasty | PBD Podcast | Ep. 536
02:04:31
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- [00:00]
Patrick Bet-David
Welcome to Nadia Yada Island. Next on Nadia Yada Island. I knew I deserved so much more, so I left.
- [00:09]
Scottie Pippen
I finally switched to Metro and got.
- [00:11]
Patrick Bet-David
What I was looking for. Get one line for only $25 a month with Autopay. Just bring your phone to Metro and experience all the data you want on the largest 5G network. That's nada. Yada yada. Only at Metro by T Mobile. First month is $30. Bring your number and ID offer. Not available if with T Mobile or with Metro. In the past 180 days, this episode is brought to you by Amazon. Sometimes the most painful part of getting sick is the getting better part. Waiting on hold for an appointment, sitting in crowded waiting rooms, standing in line at the pharmacy. That's painful. Amazon One Medical and Amazon Pharmacy. Remove those painful parts of getting better with things like 247 virtual visits and prescriptions delivered to your door. Thanks to Amazon Pharmacy and AmazonOne. Medical Healthcare just got less painful. When your book came out and I think you said something about how do you want to be remembered? And you said, I want to be remembered as the greatest of all time.
- [01:08]
Scottie Pippen
You know the reason why I say stuff like that is because when you play the game the way that I played it, why can't I say that?
- [01:15]
Patrick Bet-David
Oh, that's okay, you can say that. No one's saying you can't say, yeah.
- [01:18]
Scottie Pippen
Say it and mean it.
- [01:20]
Patrick Bet-David
Oh, so you do believe that I'm saying yeah.
- [01:23]
Scottie Pippen
And it's, look at the stats. I got six ring suit. Look at my accolades. I got defensive player, all NBA. So playing the game the right way and winning means something to me.
- [01:45]
Patrick Bet-David
When's the last time you and Michael spoke? Did it end up being good?
- [01:48]
Scottie Pippen
The conversation good and final?
- [01:52]
Patrick Bet-David
So when you guys played together, how often was it for you guys to have dinner together? Chicago has a lot of great. Scotty, stop it. Scotty, stop it. Would you put yourself ahead of LeBron as a team standpoint?
- [02:06]
Scottie Pippen
I don't know, you want individual accolades or you want championships? Because I didn't chase mine.
- [02:27]
Patrick Bet-David
So as a former fan of the NBA, I really wanted to have this conversation with Scotty because look, I'm. I'm a die hard fan of the Last Dance documentary, the game, the fight, the greatness, what it took to win six championships. But today he said some stuff I've never heard before. The, the amount his relationship with Michael, the last time him and him and Michael spoke, how many episodes of the Last Dance he watched and after which episode he stopped watching the Last Dance. Then I Asked him about the product of the NBA, why it's been down 48% the last 1212 years. I played a clip of Colin Cowherd saying what he said and his answer, he didn't hold back. He just straight up went to it. It got uncomfortable of a couple times when we discussed the relationship with he and Michael and he did not hold back. He was very respectful, yet at the same time gave his perspective. I asked him, do you believe you're the greatest of all time? Because that's what you said in your book and you have to watch that part. Then a couple funny stories. The cat story of Horace Grant, why he would miss practice, what happened with Isaiah Thomas and how a former guy who was no longer with us, he passed away in 2018 was a big part of influence and why Isaiah didn't play on The Dream Team 1992. And again, as an NBA fan, if you love the game and you love the 90s and you loved seeing them dominate, whether you're a Knicks fan and you hated them, whether you're a Laker fan like me and you saw them lose to the Bulls, the Lakers, you're going to enjoy this conversation with the one and only hall of famer, number 33, Scottie Pippen.
- [04:06]
Scottie Pippen
Did you ever think you would make it?
- [04:15]
Patrick Bet-David
What's your point? The future looks bright. My handshake is better than anything I ever saw. It's right here. Borrow one of one. My son's right. I don't think I ever said this. Scotty. I think we're finally doing this.
- [04:32]
Scottie Pippen
Yes, we are.
- [04:32]
Patrick Bet-David
This is actually happening.
- [04:33]
Scottie Pippen
Yes.
- [04:34]
Patrick Bet-David
And for the viewers that are watching this, they have no idea that I told you. And we were, by the way, we started off with a heated debate. You missed it. The debate was over who's got the best voice in the NBA. You. You speak effortless, but you have these. I don't know if you've been told this. You got the best voice in the air. You said somebody else got the best voice. You give credit to somebody else.
- [04:55]
Scottie Pippen
Well, you gave me the credit of having the best voice in association. So I said, yeah, I may have to give it to Dr. J. Yeah.
- [05:02]
Patrick Bet-David
You said Dr. J. And listen, we can say a lot of things to give credit to him. I played his voice. He doesn't have a Scottie Pippen voice.
- [05:09]
Scottie Pippen
But.
- [05:09]
Patrick Bet-David
But it's great to have you here. I know we've spoken the last few years about having you on and, you know, book coming out, a bunch of different conversations we had. And you know the audience. There's certain people that don't need an introduction. Six championships dream I think you got two gold medals if I'm not mistaken. Seven time all star. Your, your career average was a two steals per game. I think your seventh all time if I'm not mistaken in that category. That's not an easy stat as a catalog of your career to maintain a 2.0, two steals a game. There's a lot of things to be talked about you with the things that you've done. But we got a lot to talk to talk about today, man. So I'm glad you're here. I want to start off with a very. We start off soft and we get tougher as the podcast gets ahead. So let's start off with something very soft. So when I look at the NBA myself as a guy that consumed the game 24 7, I never missed a game. From the day I came to the States, 1990 till 98, I watched everything. I was a Lakers guy. So I'm talking Nick Van Anxel, Sedell Treat, if you know these names, Eldon Campbell, you know, I can give you some lineup of guys. We watched that. Eddie Jones, Trevor Riza came a little later. But I go all the way back. When you watch the viewership of NBA Finals, you guys, what you did, what Michael did, Chicago Bulls, I don't know what the number is, Rob. If you type in NBA Finals viewership, 38 million, 36 million, 32 million. And then you see the stats today and the stats come out saying the NBA viewership is down 48% the last 12 years. I no longer watch the NBA. Okay. To me, they've lost me as a fan, you as somebody who was face known worldwide. What happened to the NBA the last 10, 20 years?
- [07:01]
Scottie Pippen
Well, I feel like that the game changed. It became more of a perimeter shooter game, if I could say that. And I think back and I remember right when I was leaving the game early 2000, that the, the league promoted more scoring. Uh, they, they, they wanted to get more points up on the board. They felt like that would get the fans more engaged.
- [07:32]
Patrick Bet-David
End of your career.
- [07:33]
Scottie Pippen
Yes.
- [07:33]
Patrick Bet-David
Okay, I got it.
- [07:34]
Scottie Pippen
So it, it at that point, to me it started looking more like a game built for offensive players. Guys that did play defense and you know, took pride in playing defense, were to some degree punished. I felt like, because everything was working in favor of, of the offensive player. And then they went, they, they put the circle in there where a guy is not allowed to take a charge at certain points in the Lane at a certain position in the lane. So I think what a. What a. A lot of things changing within the game, and a lot of it was for the good looking at, you know, the physicality of the game as to where it was in the 90s. But I think a lot of that got wiped away, and I think that's where a lot of the fans lost interest in the game.
- [08:32]
Patrick Bet-David
So you. So you're saying because LeBron said the three point game, right? A lot of people said the three point game. You're saying the defense. Rob, I just pulled this up, which is a very interesting stat, by the way, based on what you're saying. I pulled up what your. The NBA averaged the least amount of points. Okay. Per game over the history of it. Rob, just pull up the link and put it up. Very, very interesting. The last of you guys won the championship together. Was it 97, 98 or 98, 99? It was 97, 98, 97, 98. So this is interesting. Zoom in a little bit, Rob. So if you look at the league right there and go on to the category of points, points is. Keep going to the right. Keep going to the right. Keep going. Right there. There's points right there. Right there. Okay, so watch that in 2024, 2025, right now, the NBA average is 113 points a game. Last year was 114, 115, 110. So since 2018, it's been averaging 111 points a game. Then if you go back to 2012, it was 98, 96, 99. Okay. If you go a little bit lower. Keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going. Keep. Look at the 97, 98.
- [09:42]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah.
- [09:43]
Patrick Bet-David
Now you see 92 points a game. That's 98, 99, 95.6, 96.9. Right. With the points per game. What. What else you think it is that turned fans away from the game? Because to me. How much of it do you think. And I'll ask these questions, and you're probably going to be more diplomatic than me because you're in the game. How much of it do you think David Stern. What is the different style of David Stern running the NBA versus an Adam Silver?
- [10:15]
Scottie Pippen
I felt like David Stern era, he ran the game. I think Adam Silver's era, he's more or less allowing the players to have some input in terms of how the rules of the game are changing.
- [10:33]
Patrick Bet-David
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
- [10:35]
Scottie Pippen
Well, it looks like it's pretty bad. Right? Okay.
- [10:38]
Patrick Bet-David
Oh, interesting.
- [10:38]
Scottie Pippen
But I think from A standpoint of players being healthy, those are some precautionary measures that they've taken in, in the game where players don't like to play back to back. So I think it's a, it's a lot of things. You know, I definitely feel like the three point shot has turned fans away from the game because it, it's just. No, no teamwork in shooting a three point shot. There's no teamwork in coming down and taking a shot from behind the three point line. But there's teamwork in coming down and executing a play. Everybody touches the ball, everybody. And you get a bucket out of it, whether it's a two or three. But it's something that drew fans, drew people to love the game, to love certain teams that played a certain way. And I don't think you see that in today's game. I feel like the last team that played with that kind of chemistry was the Golden State Warriors. They had sort of a team chemistry where they moved the ball, but it was about a lot of jump shooting, a lot of three point shooters. But they had the greatest shooters in the history of the game, and they had the greatest shooters in the game at that time. So it was a great sight to really see a great team executing, playing together and shooting the three point shot. Well in today's game, as we watch it, we don't see that great team chemistry of a team that has been doing this and have longevity of success. So it makes it hard for you to lock in and like what you're seeing.
- [12:30]
Patrick Bet-David
Yeah, that's. You know, it's funny, a few years ago, the NBA All Star, probably five, six years ago, I don't know if you remember, Giannis had the team, LeBron had the team. In the fourth quarter, they were playing up to 157. Whoever hit 157 would win. I saw defense I hadn't seen since your era. It was amazing. You know, even Kobe would play the defense in, what do you call it in All Star Game. So you would see that element himself, McGrady, some of these guys would play. But in that moment, I'm sitting there thinking to myself, as a fan, I'm like, why am I liking this? This is freaking amazing. So defense was very attractive to me because it's a fight, right? It's a fight that the other side is putting up. I want to ask you a question. When you were playing and you guys had fans in Chicago, you guys were. Can we say that the 10 year run you had, you were like the Beatles, you were like Elvis Presley, you were like, is it fair to say no matter where you guys went, everybody wanted to see you guys, the show in town, no matter where you guys.
- [13:26]
Scottie Pippen
Went, I would definitely say that's fair. But I would give a lot of the credit to Michael Jordan because of the. The fact that he had created something with the Chicago Bulls and that myself and other guys that came along, we built up on that. And it became in the late 90s, when we got Dennis Rodman on the team, that we were or people looked at us as a rock band. And when we came to different cities, we had that kind of feeling that we had to put on the show, we had to perform. And that's why when you look at those teams, especially my bull teams back there, there were no days off. You know, guys came to play, whether they were injured, sick, no matter what, because we felt like that we had to perform and that there were people coming out to watch us perform.
- [14:25]
Patrick Bet-David
Yeah. And. And, you know, when. When I watch it that way and I. I see the numbers, you know, the. The. We're going to get into the debates of Michael, LeBron, Kobe, all this stuff. We'll get into that here in a minute. But the question I wanted to ask you is when you guys played for the Bulls and politicians showed up, okay, say Republicans showed up, Democrats showed up, and they'd come and speak to you, and Michael made that one comment that we read about. I don't know if he said that or not. You know what I'm talking about, where it's like, listen, Republicans also buy shoes too, right? And Obama in the last stance said, I was kind of disappointed that he didn't come and support that one candidate. And even Michael's mother wasn't happy. You know, the story. I'm telling you stuff that you lived it. So I'm more the guy watching it from the outside as a comparison of face of the league to face of the league, not talent. We're not talking like, who's the better team player, who's the better scorer, who's more dominant, who's a bigger Winner, Michael to LeBron. How much of it you think? Also the face of the league. MJ was the face of the league. Then maybe you put Kobe, Shaq, the next era. Then you put LeBron, Curry, the next era as the face of the league. How much did Michael's approach to the fans cause people to come that could care less about politics, left, right, and center, fall in love with it versus now the face of the league? With social media, some fans are like, if you don't like me, I don't even want to come contribute to watch a game anymore because you kind of speaking to me in a way that you want to see me come watch and play. That specific debate. What did you notice between those two of gaining different fans?
- [16:02]
Scottie Pippen
Well, I can say in today's era, especially with social media, players allow the public to know their personal things, whether it's political, financial, family, whatever. They allow the public to get involved in it. So when you asked me to make that comparison with Michael or LeBron, well, Michael never put himself in that position. I mean, his words speak for himself, for itself. I mean, he's never gonna put himself in a position where, you know, his political thinking, his political mindset, he stays away from that. He's a basketball player. He's not a politician. He's not one that's going to get involved in any kind of debate. He's going to focus more on playing basketball and what it takes to win championships, and that's all he's going to speak around.
- [17:02]
Patrick Bet-David
Was he like that behind closed doors and on camera when he's being interviewed?
- [17:07]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah, that was just his. His whole mindset because, you know, as we look at it today, he had a big engine, a big brand behind him that he's always had to protect and.
- [17:21]
Patrick Bet-David
But like, you know, as a young guy, you're coming up, when he would give you advice, like, different things that you guys spoke about, you know, I know the one thing you talked about with, when you went to the Rockets, he said, you should have never. We'll talk. You know which one I'm talking about. When he's like, you could have gone a different place. But did he give that feedback to guys coming up? Hey, guys, we don't talk politics here. Hey, guys, don't bring that kind of attention here. Because the head coach, Phil Jackson, when you study about him and back in the days when he played for the Knicks, you know, he played with a couple guys that all they talk about in the locker room was politics. So you get a Phil who's very political, but he keeps it to himself. He's philosophical. You get a Michael. Was it one of those things that. It's a code. We as a unit almost ran like a mob. We don't touch politics. We don't talk about it. Did he run it that way?
- [18:08]
Scottie Pippen
I don't think he really ran it. I think he's just led by example. You know, if you don't speak it, then, you know that that's not an area. That's a gray area that he doesn't want to talk about. And obviously, if any politician, anyone wants him to, you know, donate or do anything publicly, then he's never going to get involved with that.
- [18:29]
Patrick Bet-David
What a. What a move to make good for him to make a move like that. Do you think. Do you think that indirectly that position helped the NBA grow its viewership because it attract all types of people?
- [18:42]
Scottie Pippen
Yes, it did. Because like I said, in the 90s, we didn't have social media, so we didn't have a way to turn fans off, especially from a political standpoint. We didn't have a way to encourage them from a political standpoint. So we just had basketball. And it was a lot easier to. To focus on our craft and our job and grow from that. We didn't have a lot of the distractions that, you know, players have now with social media. We had a lot of newspapers. There were more magazines and things printing stories. But, you know, it takes weeks, days, months for those kind of stories to get out. Or social media is. Every day is 24, 7. It's every 30 minutes. Every minute something's jumping off.
- [19:34]
Patrick Bet-David
Do you think if social media was there back then, like, you know, Ronaldo right now is the most followed guy? I don't know what. He's got 600 million followers, something like that on Instagram. If social media was around when you guys were playing, how big would would you guys and would Michael have been? I mean, Ronaldo's got 647 million followers right now on Instagram. How big would have been if social media was around when you guys were playing? Maybe Dennis Rodman would have had the most following. Who knows?
- [20:00]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah, I mean, hey, it would have been different. Definitely, you know, with looking at these numbers, you. You don't know how, you know, being a player that played in the 90s, how these numbers come about. And you know what they really mean, because we didn't grow up in this social media era. But definitely, you know who you're talking about.
- [20:25]
Patrick Bet-David
You.
- [20:25]
Scottie Pippen
You know, that, you know, he's one of the greatest players, greatest athletes in the world. And 647 million speaks for itself.
- [20:34]
Patrick Bet-David
So you think Michael would have been there if social media was around at that time? Because Michael kind of took the NBA.
- [20:39]
Scottie Pippen
I think he would have probably doubled that, I'm gonna be honest.
- [20:42]
Patrick Bet-David
Seriously.
- [20:43]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah, I would say, because basketball in the 90s, when it first jumped off, and, you know, just having social media back then would have just been amazing. You Know, I remember in 1987 when I was drafted, that that's when the NBA signed a international deal with China, where games were now being shown all over, you know, the world, pretty much definitely all over China. So the game was growing then. And, you know, at that point, me, Michael, was four or five years already into the game. So I'm just speaking for when I started in the league, that, yeah, the growth of what I've seen in basketball. I've traveled all over the world from Italy, Germany, early 90s, late 80s, really talking about basketball, growing basketball, talking about the Olympics. And lo and behold, 1992, we're playing in the Olympics. And now, you know, 30 years later, you know, there's nothing but NBA players playing the Olympics now. So things have changed. And, you know, players all around the world has definitely gained more confidence, more interest in playing in the NBA.
- [22:05]
Patrick Bet-David
That's amazing. Scotty, who was the. Who. Who were some people you saw because your last year was. Was it 03 04? If I'm looking at this. 03 04. So 04 is when Barack gave the speech at the DNC. When he blew up. That's when he came out and he gave one of the greatest speeches of all time. Did Barack ever come watch you play or did Trump ever come watch you play? Did you ever see either one of them at the games?
- [22:28]
Scottie Pippen
No, I never seen. Really?
- [22:29]
Patrick Bet-David
Neither one of them?
- [22:30]
Scottie Pippen
No.
- [22:31]
Patrick Bet-David
Interesting.
- [22:31]
Scottie Pippen
You know, being Barack was a Chicago guy, he probably watched from a suite or something from that standpoint, if he came to the game. But I've never had met him at a game.
- [22:41]
Patrick Bet-David
Neither him nor Trump.
- [22:42]
Scottie Pippen
No.
- [22:43]
Patrick Bet-David
So Trump never watched the Bulls. He had to have gone to a Bulls game.
- [22:47]
Scottie Pippen
I doubt it, really. So he's a New York guy, you know.
- [22:50]
Patrick Bet-David
Well, if you go to the Knicks, I mean, that era of you guys going to the Knicks, it would have been something to want to watch when you guys.
- [22:56]
Scottie Pippen
Ron, I stayed at a lot of Trump hotels back in my playing days.
- [23:00]
Patrick Bet-David
You stay out of Trump Hotel?
- [23:01]
Scottie Pippen
No, we stayed at.
- [23:02]
Patrick Bet-David
Oh, you stayed at Trump Hotels. Got it. What is that? Rob? Is that. So he's out there in Knicks against Bucks. Can you see if there's a Trump with. With Chicago Bulls? Trump watching Chicago Bulls. Just curious if. Well, that's Trump in a Chicago Bulls jersey. That's funny, people. Okay, these are. Now these are all AI driven things that you've shown.
- [23:24]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah, it's kind of hard to find something real who was a guy.
- [23:26]
Patrick Bet-David
First time you're playing, you're in their 87. I remember your rookie card, by the way. The rookie Fleer card. Right. I remember what that looked like. So when you came in, who was the first guy at a game where like, oh, shit, look who's here today? Was this somebody you saw on the sidelines where you were a little bit shocked or not really, you were so focused on the game.
- [23:44]
Scottie Pippen
I was more or less focused on the game, but there were times when, you know, the Reverend Jesse Jackson, who I'd never met, you know, playing in Chicago, would show up and be courtside. Oprah Winfrey.
- [23:55]
Patrick Bet-David
That's right. Chicago.
- [23:56]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah. So back in the day, Gene Sisko, who was a very close friend of mine, some movie critic, he passed away, God rest his soul. But, you know, I was never a guy that really focused on who was watching me play. I didn't care who was in the stands. I've always been a player that focused on the game, my team, the success, and how do we win? That's. That's it. I don't care who's coming to watch.
- [24:28]
Patrick Bet-David
Let me ask you two of them. Let me ask you two of them and see if you. Did you ever have Michael Jackson come watch the game or Prince? Either one of those two?
- [24:38]
Scottie Pippen
I think I had Prince. Well, I can't say. I. I think Prince came to a game down in Minnesota.
- [24:44]
Patrick Bet-David
Princeton.
- [24:44]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah. Yeah. When we played to Timberwolves. I've never seen Michael at a game.
- [24:51]
Patrick Bet-David
You ever want to watch him perform? Did you ever go to one of his concerts?
- [24:55]
Scottie Pippen
No.
- [24:55]
Patrick Bet-David
No. Okay. So for me, I know two. Two regrets. I never got a chance to see Michael Jackson perform, and I never got a chance to watch you guys play. Wow. Ever. I never got a chance to watch you guys play. Yeah, that was 1 2000. Wow. That's. It's been eight years already. That is absolutely wild that it's been eight years already with. Interesting how fast time flies by. You mentioned Dream Team earlier, Kai. With the Dream Team taking place, obviously we can go back to one of the topics that we followed very closely. That lineup right there. Who's on the team, by the way. So you got yourself Stockton, Bird, Michael Clyde, Drexler, Mullen, Barkley, Malone. I think that's David Robinson, Magic Ewing and Leitner.
- [25:46]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah.
- [25:46]
Patrick Bet-David
You got Chuck Daly as a coach. And when you go back and the main story that we hear about, there's a. There's two stories that we hear about. One story is the greatest game ever played that nobody ever saw. Yeah, right. That story with where Magic is talking smack to Michael.
- [26:03]
Scottie Pippen
Right.
- [26:04]
Patrick Bet-David
What what is your point of view of that story of that game? Do you remember it?
- [26:09]
Scottie Pippen
Well, you know, if you look at that, I was one of the youngest guys on that team beyond Laitner. But, you know, it was just one of those practices where, you know, guys just talking trash, guys were excited to, you know, be in the gym for one and practicing. And, you know, Magic was one of those guys that, you know, he wanted to rah, rah and get everybody together, but also, hey, we're here to work. And so Magic made it a little more competitive and start kind of poking. Poking a little bit at Michael, letting him know, you know, I've been away and you got a championship, but, hey, I'm still Magic. Da, da, da. And so it just kind of got a little, little, little bit heated. Nothing in a. In a bad way. Just a. One of those days where, you know, Michael put more energy on the basketball court than he did on the golf course. But, yeah, he came out and, you know, was talking trash. And every day out the practice, we would go back to the rooms and play cards and just kind of sit around and talk and smoke cigars and things.
- [27:18]
Patrick Bet-David
But what was your favorite memory of the Dream Team 92?
- [27:26]
Scottie Pippen
You know, it's just not one thing. Just being around guys who you looked at, who you idolize and always wondered, you know, what make them tick, what make them go, what pushes them, what their daily workout is like, what do they do every day? And just kind of being in their surroundings. And I'm talking to everybody from Larry Bird, who was at the end of his career, Magic.
- [27:56]
Patrick Bet-David
Yeah.
- [27:57]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah. But just kind of being around those guys and finally getting to know them, not having to feel like it's a day where I. I gotta guard Larry Bird, you know, it's a competitive moment, but having the opportunity to bond with them, to have breakfast with them, to meet their families, just to see what their lives are like away from the game. Just having the opportunity to say, I'm a friend of Larry Bird, you know, that's better than me going through my whole career and saying, hey, I played against Bird five times, you know, and yeah, he was tough. But that opportunity to kind of break bread, to bond, it kind of opened up a different door for us, I guess, in the NBA world, because we've never had that opportunity to really come together. It was always about competing. You know, you look at the Bulls and the Pistons, and there was never an opportunity for us to ever just come together and break bread and say, hey, we had some great competitive years, man. And this and that, just to talk basketball. But that moment, to get all those players together and you. You build more respect for people, too. You know, just after that, I mean, I had opportunity. We played against Karl Malone and John Stockton twice after that, you know, so not only am I competing with them, you know, for an NBA championship, but I just won two gold medals with these two dudes, you know, so this is competitive, but it means something to both of us, you know, that, you know, we've gotten back to the finals, you know.
- [29:52]
Patrick Bet-David
Who did you learn a lot from? Who were you like? You know, you hear the documentary about when Dwyane Wade and LeBron, they said LeBron learned about work ethic of Kobe after going to the Olympics with him. He's like, I had no idea this guy worked. So I thought I was a hard worker. But then it's like, holy shit, this is how the guy trains. This is how he works. And you heard the stories from Carmelo, and you heard the story from. Was it Bosch? I think Bosch is the one that told one of the stories, right?
- [30:16]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah.
- [30:16]
Patrick Bet-David
When you went there, was it. Was it. Because I would assume on Michael's mindset going there was to make sure he sets the record straight. It's my mba. I'm here to set the tone. Right, because you guys had just won one, if I'm not mistaken. But when you're going there and you're trying to size some of these guys up as well, who did you learn a lot from where you're like, I had no idea that guy had that kind of work ethic. That guy was very disciplined. That guy doesn't drink. He never partied. He didn't come and do this. He had to get asleep. This guy had to do this. What patterns did you learn about some of your peers and competitors?
- [30:57]
Scottie Pippen
Well, you definitely get a chance to see their work ethics away from the game, because we definitely spent time, you know, together. But it gave me a chance to really bond with some guys that I probably thought I never would. I bonded with Karl Malone. I bonded with Patrick Ewan. We would work out together. So I got a chance to see what it's like working with these guys, not just on the court, but off the court, but having the opportunity to go do extra stuff on the basketball court to learn kind of what their extra work includes. What do. What do they work on? What are their. Their weaknesses?
- [31:35]
Patrick Bet-David
Who are you impressed by?
- [31:36]
Scottie Pippen
Well, I was very impressed with Karl Malone in the. In the weight room. He is a beast because of how much he Pushed? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he is just a beast. I mean, he, he stays in the gym four hours and just works until you can't pick up a cup of coffee.
- [31:53]
Patrick Bet-David
So that was him. Wow. Who was very disciplined with sleep and diet. I'm assuming Charles Barkley was very disciplined.
- [32:00]
Scottie Pippen
With, with eating and dying and hanging out.
- [32:03]
Patrick Bet-David
Yeah, I've just read about it.
- [32:05]
Scottie Pippen
I would say someone who really focus on their, their diet probably was more like someone like Chris Mullen.
- [32:12]
Patrick Bet-David
Chris Mullen, Yeah.
- [32:13]
Scottie Pippen
Really? Yeah, he was. And I don't. I'm just talking about conditioning. Like this guy, him and Patrick, they were just so focused on their conditioning every day. Every day.
- [32:25]
Patrick Bet-David
But who talked the most shit? Who was like poking nonstop? Like outside of Michael, I'm assuming Michael was non stop. But who else was like out of control talking smack?
- [32:36]
Scottie Pippen
I mean, you, you got Charles Barkley, who's doing that all the time, and then everyone gonna always throw up on him. Well, you don't have a championship, and then that's what he's. He have to like tuck his tail between his, his butt and walk away. But at that time, we still had a lot of basketball left in our careers. So Charles always had the comeback line that, I'm gonna get mine. So.
- [33:02]
Patrick Bet-David
So he was, he was out of this. You know what I like about Charles is, you know, when he, Shaq and Kenny go at it and they do their debate, right? And he says what he says, he never takes it away from himself that he never won, meaning he doesn't give himself an out. He always calls himself out for not having won one.
- [33:23]
Scottie Pippen
Yes.
- [33:23]
Patrick Bet-David
And you got to respect that because, you know, sometimes guys, they're asked questions, hey, do you think if your legacy ends and you don't win a championship, you think it's impacted by it? Mike, you know, Barkley will say yes, and some guys will say no, I'm still a great basketball player. And all this other stuff. Do you think, do you think somebody. You seem like a nicer guy. You don't seem like a guy that wants to ruffle feathers. But do you think your career is tainted if at the end of your career you have that disclaimer that you never won a championship? Make your next move with American Express Business Platinum. You'll get five times membership rewards, points.
- [33:58]
Scottie Pippen
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- [34:04]
Patrick Bet-David
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- [34:18]
Scottie Pippen
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- [34:22]
Patrick Bet-David
Oh, such a clutch off season pickup, Dave. I was worried we'd bring back the same team. I meant those Blackout motorized shades. Blinds.com made it crazy affordable to replace our old blinds. Hard to install?
- [34:33]
Scottie Pippen
No, it's easy.
- [34:34]
Patrick Bet-David
I installed these and then got some from my mom. She talked to a design consultant for free and scheduled a professional measure and install hall of fame son. They're the number one online retailer of custom window coverings in the world. Blinds.com is the goat. Go to blinds.com for 40% off site wide. Blinds.com rules and restrictions may apply.
- [34:55]
Scottie Pippen
I would say in certain situations. But in Charles Barkley's situation, I would say no. I would say no because he won two gold medals. He helped globalize basketball all over the world. He didn't have to play in but one NBA Finals and he didn't win. But everybody knows Charles Barkley because of his personality, because of him working on tnt, but really, because he was a heck of a basketball player. He was a great player and he probably deserved to win a title. Ran into Michael and the Bulls. But Charles was a heck of a player and he's had a great career as an analyst as well.
- [35:49]
Patrick Bet-David
Oh, there's no question about it. On that area, he may be the discussion as the most entertaining one that gets the most eyeballs. He's got to be up there right. As what he's done with that area of his career. But I don't know. I think Charles would say, you're right. And he would take that as a compliment. And he would still say, I wish I would have won one. I think that's what he would have said. But you know, from his standpoint, and again, that's the part when I watch and Shaq says, I got four, you got zero. He's such a great example on that side that he still puts the pressure of not having won one.
- [36:22]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah.
- [36:23]
Patrick Bet-David
Chuck.
- [36:23]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah.
- [36:24]
Patrick Bet-David
By the way, for yourself with the game that you played opponent and staying on this Dream Team side conversation that we're having, you know, for those who are NBA fans, they remember when those guys beat you guys up every season. And Tim Grover is a friend, where Tim comes in and, you know, he starts training. You see the videos with Michael and him and all this other stuff. And he learns he has to kind of get stronger to get through the middle because those guys aren't, you know, one of my. I would play the footage, but we can because it's the NBA Footage, the one where Michael comes in over Ewing and he scores with, I think it's Xavier McDaniel and just kind of puts the, he looks at him and just kind of, you know, celebrates to say he's got the strength now, you can't bully him anymore. So puts his head against, you know, I've probably seen that 4 minute and 40 second clip of them going against the Knicks when he says, I asked my dad what should I do, take the lead. And if they don't follow, you know, whatever, you at least will be able to look back. And he gets into Xavier's face right here. I freaking have watched this thing a few thousand times and just getting into his eyes to tell him, hey, we're not afraid of you. Such a beautiful thing. But for you guys going up against Pistons and then coming back and you know, winning and then them walking off. We've heard Michael's version, okay. Of the reason why Isaiah didn't make it on the Dream Team. Stats overqualified championships, overqualified numbers he put up, I mean Isaiah Thomas, I think one season put up 388 or 28 8, 8. He put up some numbers that just made no sense. Maybe it was even 3,288. Can you put Isaiah Thomas stats just happen. Isaiah Thomas stats, if you could and go down to keep going lower. Let's see, let me see what the points per game is, Rob. If you can zoom out a little bit to see points go lower, go lower. 28 8. He had one season that the numbers. And maybe that's Larry Bird that put up the stats like that. But this guy was a two time champion.
- [38:25]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah, I mean his, his numbers are based on his scoring and his assists. You have 20 points and 10, 11, 12, 13 assists and that's, that's 30 points.
- [38:37]
Patrick Bet-David
Did you, did you know the story that what he did that day, not shaking hands, getting off the field, lamb, beer, all of that stuff, you know, and Michael, you're like, yeah, he's not going to be on the. Did you know that story behind closed doors.
- [38:53]
Scottie Pippen
You know, when that happened, that had nothing to do with the Dream Team. That was in 91. That was our first title. So I don't even think I was on the Dream Team at that time. The Dream Team stuff came up in 92 or you know, right as that season was starting to, to get underway.
- [39:18]
Patrick Bet-David
But, but I'm talking like Isaiah not being there and you guys are playing, you know, and the guys are talking to one another. Some guys are also kind of like wow. He's here, but Isaiah's not here. Was it a known fact that Isaiah wasn't on because of Michael? Because the coach was? I mean, who was your coach? You guys had the coach that.
- [39:40]
Scottie Pippen
I think it was a known fact that he wasn't on the team. I can't say why he wasn't on the team. I can't even point out that. Say that any individual put him off the team. You know, basketball is a game built on relationships, and that team was put together based on relationships. Players that they felt could get along, players that they felt could play together, and players that they felt like could contribute in the right way to win a gold medal. And you know what? Dominique Wilkins was left off of that team. And I personally feel as bad as anyone to see a guy who I idolize, who I looked up to, who I guarded, who I defended numerous amount of times, not be a part of that team. But I didn't want to sacrifice my seat to give it up to him. But with all respect, I felt like he deserved to be on that team as well, not just Isaiah.
- [40:46]
Patrick Bet-David
Yeah, but. But the biggest thing to me is, like, it's. The head coach is Chuck Daly. He is Isaiah's coach. Right? I mean, he's the guy that they want together with. You mean to tell me, like, either David Stern is not a fan of Isaiah. To say, I'm gonna pick Chuck and you're not gonna get in. I mean, that's like a. So to me, it almost has to be a David Stern thing that says you didn't represent something like this. You disrespect the NBA tradition, I'm gonna not put you there, and I'm gonna put your coach and Michael, and this will be a taint as the greatest team ever put together. You want a part of. So I'm trying to see. Because I see David Stern as a boss.
- [41:26]
Scottie Pippen
I see him as a boss. I will not let you say that because I don't think that will be fair. David Stern has nothing to do with USA Basketball.
- [41:37]
Patrick Bet-David
So you don't think so.
- [41:39]
Scottie Pippen
I would correct you on that one, no. He gave them the nod that they could use NBA players. But I don't think when it comes to picking the team, selecting the players. So as an amateur here, I don't think that educate.
- [41:55]
Patrick Bet-David
Who picks the teams?
- [41:57]
Scottie Pippen
Well, it's the people at USA Basketball.
- [42:01]
Patrick Bet-David
And who was running the USA Basketball at the time. I'm like, this is something like, for me, as a fan of.
- [42:06]
Scottie Pippen
So you're gonna have to do Your do your research, figure out.
- [42:11]
Patrick Bet-David
I feel like you listen. I feel like you're C.M. newton USA Basketball 1992 C.M.
- [42:19]
Scottie Pippen
Newton.
- [42:19]
Patrick Bet-David
C.M. newton. Okay, so that's his name. C.M. newton was the president of basketball 1998 US basketball during this tenure he was instrumental decision to allow professional players to come to summer which led to creation of the Dream Team. He served as the assistant coach of 1984 Olympic gold medal. I think Jordan was on that team if I'm not mistaken and was a major influence on the 92. Served on NCAA committees. Coached at Alabama, Vanderbilt. Before coaching played basketball, football and baseball at Fort Lauderdale High School. Shout out to Fort Lauderdale.
- [42:50]
Scottie Pippen
Yes sir.
- [42:51]
Patrick Bet-David
Played on state championship in basketball. So. So then I gotta rob, you gotta do this because Scotty is now trying to turn us into a research team. Did C M Newton influence Isaiah Thomas from not making the Dream Team? Maybe even ask Chad GBT maybe dream.
- [43:14]
Scottie Pippen
Team, what is it? AI answering this.
- [43:18]
Patrick Bet-David
Yes. According to reports, CM Newton, who was ahead of selection committee in 1992 is considered to have a role in Isaiah not being selected as there were strong indications that Michael Jordan keep playing. Would not participate if Thomas was on the team. And Newton reportedly facilitated that decision by not pushing for Isaiah's inclusion. Michael Jordan. Most accounts point to Michael Jordan alleged opposition to Isaiah Thomas being on the Dream Team as a primary reason for his exclusion. How close was CM Newton to David Stern? Were they friends or no?
- [43:51]
Scottie Pippen
I would. I don't know. I would have to say there's probably some respect there.
- [43:57]
Patrick Bet-David
Got it.
- [44:02]
Scottie Pippen
But yeah, that's the guy that put the team together. So what fights, you know, and when people say Michael did this or they didn't put him on the team because of the Bulls, whatever. CM Newton was a fan of the game just like you were. He saw the bad blood between the Bulls and Pistons. So how can he put oil, mix oil and water together?
- [44:34]
Patrick Bet-David
Let me tell you, if you really want to get back at Isaiah, you pick his coach and you pick Michael. And you have videos circulating all over the world of Chuck and Michael golfing. If you really, really want to get under someone's skin, I gotta tell you, this CM Newton guy is extremely creative to have thought. Obviously he passed, passed away six years ago, May God bless his soul. But if he was that much of a mastermind, by the way, you know, for me, you know, when you're running a company and you're making decisions sometimes and you know there's bad blood with somebody. Let's just say somebody took advantage of another guy or Somebody did something that didn't meet the traditions of a company. You have to set the example and represent the guy that's setting the better example. So I think the right move was made here. And if Michael was not happy about it, you want him to go and playing the dream team and you have experience with them from 1984. See, I didn't know the connection with him and Michael from 1984. But listen, by the way, Rob, moving forward, the head of our research team for the NBA is going to be Scottie Pippen. That's just moving forward. That's what we're doing. Nowadays more than ever, the brand you wear reflects and represent who you are. So for us, if you wear a Future Looks Bright hat or a valuetainment gear, you're telling the world. I, I'm optimistic. I'm excited about what's going to be happening. But you're a free thinker. You question things, you like, debate. And by the way, last year, 120,000 people got a piece of Future Looks Bright gear with valuetainment. We have so many new things. The cufflinks are here. New Future Looks Bright. This is my favorite, the green one. Just yesterday, somebody placed an order for a hundred of these. If you watch the PBD podcast, you got a bunch to choose from. White ones, black ones. If you, if you, if you smoke cigars and you come to our cigar lounge, we have this high quality lighter cutter and a holder for the cigars. We got sweaters with the valuetainment logo on it, we got mugs, we got a bunch of different things. But if you believe the future looks bright, if you follow our content and what we represent with valuetainment with PVD podcast, go to vtmerch.com and by the way, if you order right now, there's going to be a special VT gift insight just for you. So again, go to vtmerch.com, place your order, tell the world that you believe the future looks bright. So talking about, you know, moving forward, about talking about, you know, this dream team, Michael, all this stuff I've noticed, you know, I've watched some of your stuff. I even DM'd you one time and we went back and forth on the exchange that was between us. But when your book came out and you came out with the book came out, I think you said something about how do you want to be remembered? And you said, I want to be remembered as the greatest of all time. And this was the unguarded. And this came out November 9, 2021. If I'm not mistaken. The Last Dance came out during COVID Was it April of 2020? I couldn't even tell you when the Last Dance came out. If you want to type in The Last Dance 2020 premiere, there it is. Okay. April 19, 2020. Which, by the way, the timing of that documentary couldn't have been any better than the way it did right after Covid, because we all watch a Sunday night, two episodes for five weeks straight. So you were glued to the screen, 8 o'clock, East coast till 10 o'clock. And I'd bring the guys to my theater room, we'd sit there, watch that documentary together. Was epic. But when you said that, this is the one part that I'm really curious from, from your end, you said, I want to be remembered as the greatest of all time. And there was kind of a little bit of the conflict where you were not happy about the Last dance, about the stuff that was said, and maybe not enough being covered with you guys, you saying, I want to be remembered as the greatest of all time. How much of that was really what you believed in? How much of that was you trying to sell a book? And how much of that was somebody behind closed doors flattering you, saying you didn't get enough credit for what you did during the Chicago's run?
- [48:37]
Scottie Pippen
I think it's just me believing in myself, in the way that I played the game, that I did it the right way. I did it where I won, I played the right way, my teammates loved the way that I played, and people my peers respected the way that I played. And I feel like that I got out of the game, everything that I put into it. You know, I was a guy that I was a walk on. You know, I was a guy that went to three camps to just to get drafted and ended up being the fifth pick. So I feel like the work that I put in over 15, 20 years, you know, before and during my professional career, that I played the game the right way, that I played it where I showed younger players how to be successful and how to enjoy the game. I showed men's women, who is not as athletic, how to play the game and to play it the right way and to play it from a team standpoint.
- [50:02]
Patrick Bet-David
Yeah. But to say, you know, the technicalities of this, this game and, you know, during a moment like that, like, you know, the biggest debate is always who's the greatest of all time. And last night comes out and a lot of people, well, you know, Michael didn't highlight you. Michael didn't Highlight Horace Grant. And Horace wasn't too happy about. And you know, I remember when Horse was in the league with him and his brother. Right. If I'm not mistaken, his brother's name was what, Brian? I think it was Harvey. Harvey Grant. Right. And he played for the Bullets, I think. I don't know what it was called back then. I think it was the Bullets, if I'm not mistaken. Also a big guy. Yeah. Harvey Grant, he played at the Blazers, but I think he started off with the Bullets, if I'm not mistaken.
- [50:42]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah, he's about.
- [50:43]
Patrick Bet-David
And I, by the way, I thought Horse was great because I think Horse came to the Lakers as well one season or two. And he had a pretty good run there as well.
- [50:49]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah.
- [50:49]
Patrick Bet-David
So when you're going through it and you say something like that, this is, this is. I think this is a part where for someone like you that has been as involved in the NBA drama, positive drama, not negative drama. We're not talking about like, you know, drugs and stuff like that. I'm talking positive drama, the NBA that makes the NBA exciting. That people want to talk about, you know, the weight behind usain, the greatest of all time. I'm personally, I'm wondering, was it you fully believe because you made some arguments that, you know, sometimes LeBron is a more complete player than Michael. You've had those types of discussions, remember, I watch you. You don't watch me. I've watched you way more than you watch me. So I've seen you say stuff. You're Scottie Pippen. You're not just a regular play that played in the game. You're a hall of famer, top 50 and arguably when we put our starting five together to dude, I want you on my team because I want somebody that plays defense the way you do, that's an all around guy, that as a defensive player, dude, you. I can only imagine in practice how I was guarding Michael every freaking day in practice. What is that going to do to you? That's a scary job to have to get better at that. Right. But you said the greatest. So when I see a fall sometimes or I see something is people are my ear. And sometimes the hardest thing to do in life. I saw my parents get a divorce. And when they got a divorce twice and they remarried each other, each family was saying, she doesn't appreciate you enough, he doesn't appreciate you enough. And this flattery is divisive to put a little wedge between you. I know it's not a comfortable thing to probably talk about, but did any of that happen where someone was saying, come on, Scotty, Michael would have never won six without you. Come on, Scotty, this. And Michael said it himself. But from your standpoint, no, it's.
- [52:36]
Scottie Pippen
That's, you know, the reason why I say stuff like that is because when you play the game the way that I played it, you play on both ends. Why can't I say that?
- [52:47]
Patrick Bet-David
That's okay. You can say that. So no one saying you can't say.
- [52:51]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah and say it and mean it. Oh, so you do believe that I'm saying yeah. Look at my. Look at the stats. I got six rings too. Look at my accolades. I got defensive player, all NBA. So playing the game the right way and winning means something to me. And it meant a lot to me. I don't have the MVPs, but guess what? Somebody that was with me got it.
- [53:20]
Patrick Bet-David
Would you say I don't.
- [53:22]
Scottie Pippen
I didn't have the final mvp, but hey, we won the championship.
- [53:28]
Patrick Bet-David
I, I get that. But that. That could be to say, well, here.
- [53:33]
Scottie Pippen
Is my thing is to me, before the 90s, before the 90s, I had never in my life heard anything about a goat in basketball.
- [53:47]
Patrick Bet-David
Interesting. Really?
- [53:48]
Scottie Pippen
Never. I had never heard anyone say, who's the greatest player in the NBA, Scotty, before the 90s. Who was that guy then? If you had heard that, who was that guy and why is he not being mentioned today?
- [54:05]
Patrick Bet-David
I would say the debate pre 90s, you got to realize I'm in the Middle east. During that time, the greatest basketball player in Iran was probably a different guy. But if I were to say the discussion was when I hear that one time that I don't know if was NBA was celebrating the top 50 greatest players of all time and Wilton Michael are in the corner having a heated debate. This is a story I've read about. I don't know if that's true or not, but I've read about in many different places. I think.
- [54:30]
Scottie Pippen
Let me just go back a little further, please. Let's go back to the 80s, before the 80s. Let's go in the mid-80s. Who was the goat during that era?
- [54:43]
Patrick Bet-David
Of all time?
- [54:44]
Scottie Pippen
Of all time.
- [54:46]
Patrick Bet-David
I would say there's a strong argument at that time for Wilt being the greatest of all time because the Lakers hadn't yet gone on their why dominant destroyed his opponents.
- [54:59]
Scottie Pippen
So why is mentioned now? Why is he not? I don't even hear about him now.
- [55:04]
Patrick Bet-David
I mentioned Wilt. I mean, you're talking about the guy.
- [55:07]
Scottie Pippen
That has he got 13 rings?
- [55:09]
Patrick Bet-David
Well, no, he didn't get 13 rings. Russell got. You're talking about Russell?
- [55:12]
Scottie Pippen
I mean Russell.
- [55:13]
Patrick Bet-David
Yeah, I'm talking Will.
- [55:14]
Scottie Pippen
Will.
- [55:15]
Patrick Bet-David
Russell got the 11 and the two additional ones. Yeah, 13 rings. But there's a difference because we can say Ori got seven. Right. Or he's not in the discussion of all time. But Ori wasn't a the face of the team and Ori.
- [55:30]
Scottie Pippen
So what's the credentials to be that guy?
- [55:33]
Patrick Bet-David
To be the greatest of all time?
- [55:35]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah.
- [55:37]
Patrick Bet-David
Okay, that's a great conversation. I'm curious to know what you say. I'm a fan. I'll give you my opinion, but I want to hear from you.
- [55:42]
Scottie Pippen
I don't think it exists in team sports. I don't think it exists in team sports.
- [55:53]
Patrick Bet-David
Okay, you don't think it exists in team sports?
- [55:58]
Scottie Pippen
No.
- [55:59]
Patrick Bet-David
Can I push back?
- [56:00]
Scottie Pippen
Yes, please.
- [56:01]
Patrick Bet-David
So there's a part of me that agrees with you. In certain games, sports, for example, it's very tough for baseball. I don't know if you're a baseball guy or not, but in baseball if you say who's the greatest of all time? You could say babe, because he was a two way player and he hit the 700 plus it's 60 home runs in a season. You could say Barry Bonds, but Barry didn't win the chips and he his career in the playoffs a suspect. You could say Willie Mays 660 defensive player. My argument is Willie. When I have the conversation it's Willie. But then you could say you forgot about all the pitchers.
- [56:41]
Scottie Pippen
Here's my punch back at that. Did Barry Bond ever strike anybody out?
- [56:46]
Patrick Bet-David
No.
- [56:48]
Scottie Pippen
So what did he do on the other side of the field to make him the greatest?
- [56:54]
Patrick Bet-David
He was a Golden Glove guy. He was a, he was a good. But he didn't strike people out. But I think it's a different game in baseball than basketball. I think in basketball, you know when, when, when I think about basketball. Okay, so maybe let me play this game in a different way with you. You're an NBA owner. Scotty, we're going to play a game called NBA draft pick.
- [57:21]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah.
- [57:22]
Patrick Bet-David
Who's your number one draft pick to put a team together?
- [57:28]
Scottie Pippen
Which era?
- [57:29]
Patrick Bet-David
Any era today to play today. Who do you pick as your number one draft pick.
- [57:39]
Scottie Pippen
In today's era? Player. I'll take win B. Emma, the young player with San Antonio.
- [57:45]
Patrick Bet-David
So your all time to pick your number one draft pick. You pick Wimby one.
- [57:53]
Scottie Pippen
Wow.
- [57:54]
Patrick Bet-David
Who's two?
- [57:55]
Scottie Pippen
Well you saying now, so I gotta look at this ERA and say hey this kid, y'all she's got one year. Yeah.
- [58:01]
Patrick Bet-David
So you think Wemby develop him? You think Wemby in this era does better than Michael would do in this era?
- [58:09]
Scottie Pippen
Well, you asked me this era. That's why I got you. Which.
- [58:13]
Patrick Bet-David
No. Then I'm sorry. Do all time.
- [58:15]
Scottie Pippen
Do all time. Then I'm gonna pick my, my era.
- [58:18]
Patrick Bet-David
Okay.
- [58:19]
Scottie Pippen
I'm gonna pick the team that won six titles.
- [58:21]
Patrick Bet-David
Who's your number one draft pick player?
- [58:24]
Scottie Pippen
I'm gonna pick Michael.
- [58:25]
Patrick Bet-David
Okay. Who's your two?
- [58:27]
Scottie Pippen
I'm gonna pick me.
- [58:29]
Patrick Bet-David
I agree. Who's your three? To put a team that wins? Who's your three?
- [58:32]
Scottie Pippen
I'm gonna pick Dennis or Horse Grant. Whichever Arrow.
- [58:36]
Patrick Bet-David
I see what you're doing. I see. Okay, so let's just say Dennis is three. Who's your four?
- [58:42]
Scottie Pippen
Don't matter. Give me anybody. I'll take you.
- [58:45]
Patrick Bet-David
So let me get this straight. So your mindset is you, Michael and Dennis will beat any team that anybody puts together.
- [58:51]
Scottie Pippen
We did it for three years.
- [58:53]
Patrick Bet-David
Twice.
- [58:55]
Scottie Pippen
No, I did it with Horse the first time. But yeah, me and Michael did it.
- [58:58]
Patrick Bet-David
That's right. That's right. That's fair enough. I'm sorry. Yeah, so that's why he said Dennis or Horse. Okay, but if you're. And I want to qualify this because to me that could still be a safe space answer. Because you're still saying that I'm picking us against anybody else, right?
- [59:16]
Scottie Pippen
I'm picking the greatest team against anybody.
- [59:19]
Patrick Bet-David
Yeah, but, but when you say you're the greatest of all time and the in the goat debate, that's still saying that you're ahead of Michael. So your position is still in the game of NBA. You're the greatest of all time, all around.
- [59:31]
Scottie Pippen
I'm speaking from a team standpoint.
- [59:34]
Patrick Bet-David
Would you put yourself ahead of LeBron? Would you put yourself ahead of LeBron as a team standpoint?
- [59:41]
Scottie Pippen
My success as a team is more successful than LeBron. I got six rings.
- [59:47]
Patrick Bet-David
Okay, so then if I, if I talk to an NBA owner, by the way, this is very helpful because. This is very helpful because for me as a fan, I've followed this. So if I speak from an NBA standpoint, owner, and I want to find an all around player to be my number one, you think the average owner is going to pick you or LeBron?
- [60:11]
Scottie Pippen
I don't know.
- [60:14]
Patrick Bet-David
Got it. Okay.
- [60:15]
Scottie Pippen
So that you want individual accolades or you want championships? Because I didn't chase mine.
- [60:25]
Patrick Bet-David
Okay. And that's an argument that LeBron went to Miami, he went back to Cleveland to win with Kyrie. And then he went back to LA to win with Anthony Davis. All our. You know, Michael never had teammates like that. And you only had. You had Michael as a teammate. But. But in this specific context, Scotty, I think this is very important because I'm really trying to understand your position is specific with you against Michael. You still saying Michael's the greatest of all time, but maybe you're saying you're the greatest teammate of all time. Would that be a better way of qualifying it?
- [61:01]
Scottie Pippen
I would say, if you want to say it that. That way. But again, team sports, to me, there's no goat. There's great teams, but as an individual, you got to go to individual sports.
- [61:23]
Patrick Bet-David
You know what's smart? Enjoying a fresh gourmet meal at home.
- [61:27]
Scottie Pippen
That you didn't have to cook.
- [61:29]
Patrick Bet-David
Meet loophole in the laws of mealtime. Chef crafted meals delivered with a tap, ready in just two minutes.
- [61:37]
Scottie Pippen
You know what's even smarter?
- [61:38]
Patrick Bet-David
Treating yourself without cheating your goals. Factor is dietitian approved, Chef prepared, and you plated. Pretty smart, huh? Refresh your routine and eat smart with factor. Learn more@Factor Meals.com. yeah, I. I think. I think. Okay, so maybe. Well, I mean, the fact that I asked you to draft, who would you pick as number one just by using Michael one.
- [62:12]
Scottie Pippen
I look at this arrow, right? But if you asked me to pick a team NBA, then I'm gonna pick my era and my team that's the most dominant team that's played in the game. There's no team that's done what the Bulls done.
- [62:29]
Patrick Bet-David
You picked Michael ahead of you, though. So that, in essence, you're saying Michael's the greatest of all time.
- [62:34]
Scottie Pippen
Well, he's older than me, so he would have been in the game.
- [62:37]
Patrick Bet-David
You're so funny, Scotty. I am really trying to pick.
- [62:42]
Scottie Pippen
You want me to pick?
- [62:43]
Patrick Bet-David
You are so funny, Scotty. You are so funny. You're so funny. So, okay, so you're saying era, Wimby in your era, Michael in this era. Who does better?
- [63:01]
Scottie Pippen
Wimby in this era, and Michael in this era.
- [63:03]
Patrick Bet-David
So, no, no, no. Wemby goes to your era. Oh, and then Michael comes to this era. Who does better?
- [63:13]
Scottie Pippen
Probably Michael.
- [63:15]
Patrick Bet-David
Michael would do better in this era. Okay, so let's go to the next one. LeBron in your era with Michael. Michael in LeBron's era, who does better?
- [63:27]
Scottie Pippen
Probably Michael.
- [63:28]
Patrick Bet-David
Okay. And then with Kobe, I'm assuming you're gonna say Michael of Michael and Kobe's era. It's kind of the same, so.
- [63:34]
Scottie Pippen
Okay, I would probably still say Michael Would do better. Because remember, Michael era, my era, early on, very physical. 85, 90 point games.
- [63:47]
Patrick Bet-David
That's right.
- [63:48]
Scottie Pippen
Different.
- [63:48]
Patrick Bet-David
That's right.
- [63:49]
Scottie Pippen
In today's game, we're looking at some games that'll get to 130, 140. And so I think Michael would have strived off of just being free, open, right. Not having the physicality that he had to play with it night in and night out.
- [64:07]
Patrick Bet-David
Michael in the 70s, Aeron.
- [64:12]
Scottie Pippen
Would he dominate it? Okay, I didn't play in the 70s, but I gotta imagine that the game was even just as physical as it was in the 80s.
- [64:26]
Patrick Bet-David
Less, less rules, right. It was more fights, guys were, you know, it was a very physical area.
- [64:31]
Scottie Pippen
And I mean, I think he would have had success in the era, but the game has changed tremendously and from the ball handling to the steps that the players take. So, you know, when you ask me that, and how successful would he have been in the 70s? I don't know how the officiating would have officiated him.
- [65:00]
Patrick Bet-David
Scotty, when are you running for office? Because your answers are so diplomatic. Let me tell you, man, if you're running for office. Listen, you said, Reverend Jackson, who was it that you said, somebody's got to call you and help Scotty campaign for something here?
- [65:15]
Scottie Pippen
Nothing, nothing political, but, but only reason.
- [65:18]
Patrick Bet-David
I'm saying this, I'm teasing you, but your answers are, you know, but I.
- [65:21]
Scottie Pippen
I see a lot of changes in the game when I watch it, and I'm sure you've. Is probably what turned you off is that players are now allowed to take three steps going to the basket, you know, and so you, you want to. You're like, wow, that's not a traveling. But it's not.
- [65:43]
Patrick Bet-David
Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a different game. It's just not as exciting to me though. Let me ask you this question. You have one of two choices. Which of these two would you rather have. Would you rather have won a ring without Michael, or would you rather have made an additional hundred million dollars while you played in the NBA?
- [66:00]
Scottie Pippen
Give me that hundred million. Seriously. I got a, I, I got a gold medal ring without Michael. So that didn't mean a lot, but yeah, definitely would have loved, no hesitation in this era.
- [66:18]
Patrick Bet-David
Would you have rather won that season where you guys got what, 47, 48 wins? You guys went, I think you went to the Eastern Conference finals, if I'm not mistaken. Would you have rather won that year or that additional 100 million?
- [66:31]
Scottie Pippen
Oh, I would have taken that 100 million.
- [66:35]
Patrick Bet-David
How about additional 50 million? Or that ring?
- [66:40]
Scottie Pippen
I don't know. Maybe I'll take the ring.
- [66:44]
Patrick Bet-David
Interesting. So the. So the number is what matters. The 100 million rings.
- [66:48]
Scottie Pippen
It. It matters to be known as the best. It matters to be the best. It pays to be at the top. So Scotty.
- [66:59]
Patrick Bet-David
So let's just say. Let's just say you. Let's. Let's change this. I got a weird question for you. I guarantee you're not expecting this question to come to you. You ready?
- [67:06]
Scottie Pippen
Yes.
- [67:06]
Patrick Bet-David
You ready for this one? Okay, so the great Dominique Wilkins, when he played for the Atlanta Hawks, I think he averaged 35 points a game at one season. And he had mult 30 point season games. I think he was the only guy that outscored Michael in scoring, if I'm not mistaken. Can you pull up Dominic Wilkins stats?
- [67:25]
Scottie Pippen
Trust me, I was the one he was giving all those numbers to go to a different.
- [67:29]
Patrick Bet-David
Go to the NBA reference. It does a better job showing the stats than this one. Just go to NBA. Yeah, Stats. And then go lower. Keep going lower, lower, lower. Go to that one right there. That's the one. I like the way they break down stats. Okay, zoom in a little bit. Zoom in a little bit. Thanks, Rob. Okay, points per game. Look at that right there. 30.3 was the 85, 86 season. That's the year I think Michael was hurt when he averaged 30. And he got second in MVP voting right that season. But right after 29. 30.7. And then he loses to Michael every year except for the year that Michael was. And then rebounds. Look at that. 30 points a game. 7.9 rebounds, 1.8 steals. This guy was a monster. Absolute monster of a guy in field goal. He was at that time 47%. That three point era wasn't a three point era. What was his free throw. Oh, shoot. 82%. Damn. Good for you. Okay, so here's a crazy question for you. You ready? The Bulls don't draft you. You get drafted to the Atlanta Hawks. You, Dominique Kevin Wilkins. Michael doesn't pick you up. The Bulls get. Can you go to the 87 draft? Go to the 19 8. What a game we're playing here. 1987 NBA draft. Zoom in. Okay, so where are you picked? What? You're number five. Okay, so Michael and the team, they pick up Kenny Smith. Obviously it's not up to him, but say you go to somehow somewhere, you end up with the Atlanta Hawks and Kenny Smith goes to the Bulls. How many championships do you guys win at the Hawks and How many championships does Michael win without you going there?
- [69:14]
Scottie Pippen
I still get my six.
- [69:16]
Patrick Bet-David
Stop it, Scotty.
- [69:18]
Scottie Pippen
Three. Three? I thought you knew.
- [69:20]
Patrick Bet-David
I know the number. Trust me. I know the number. So you'd win six, you're saying?
- [69:24]
Scottie Pippen
Yes.
- [69:25]
Patrick Bet-David
How many does Michael win?
- [69:27]
Scottie Pippen
Maybe he. He may be somewhere with LeBron. Two, three. Somewhere.
- [69:31]
Patrick Bet-David
LeBron's got four now.
- [69:33]
Scottie Pippen
Oh, LeBron got. I thought he had five.
- [69:34]
Patrick Bet-David
No, he's got four. He. I. He won two with Miami, one with Cleveland, one with the Lakers. Now you're throwing me off right now. How many did it win?
- [69:41]
Scottie Pippen
I am thrown off.
- [69:42]
Patrick Bet-David
No, no, he won four. He won four. He won four. He's four and six in a final, if I'm not mistaken.
- [69:47]
Scottie Pippen
I don't know. Yeah, I would say. I don't know. I feel like I'm gonna get my. My six.
- [69:54]
Patrick Bet-David
So you. Wilkins, Dominique. Say. Say Michael gets Michael, Horace and Kenny, you're still getting your six.
- [70:05]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah, they can't stop me. Who. Who gonna stop me then?
- [70:10]
Patrick Bet-David
That is such an interesting conversation that we just went into, just because the comments. So, so, ok, so take Dominic out. Put you Drexler. Put you Drexler. And Michael gets. Let's put Michael and Rob. Can you pull up top? I'm trying to see who I would pick here. Let's put Mike. Top defensive players. NBA. 90s. NBA. 90s. Yeah, 90s NBA. You got to put NBA though. NBA. Yeah, there you go. Can you zoom in a little bit? I don't want to look. You're right there. That's why I said drexler. So, man, NBA defense. Okay, go to 1990 rating right there. Elijah, Robinson, Lambert, Rodman Malone. Zoom in a little bit. Rob, if you could, mark Eatman. Young. So it's always going to be the centers, but go Mark Jerome Kersey, Clyde Drexler. Okay, you and Clyde Drexler. I'm trying to get Michael. Somebody. Keep going lower. Is that all? Okay, keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going, man. See, that's the thing. The thing with you is I was.
- [71:23]
Scottie Pippen
A pretty good fit.
- [71:26]
Patrick Bet-David
Oh, understatement, Understatement. But you and Drexler, Michael and Barkley. Because Barkley was a bmf.
- [71:42]
Scottie Pippen
Oh, he was a beast.
- [71:44]
Patrick Bet-David
You and Drexler, Michael and Barkley. Who would. Had more chips?
- [71:50]
Scottie Pippen
I don't know. I think me and. Me and Drexler might. Might get him.
- [71:54]
Patrick Bet-David
Stop it.
- [71:55]
Scottie Pippen
I don't know if Michael will be able to keep his thumb on top of Charles.
- [72:02]
Patrick Bet-David
Really?
- [72:04]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah. I Don't know if he can hold Charles down.
- [72:07]
Patrick Bet-David
Meaning keeping them coachable.
- [72:10]
Scottie Pippen
Yes. For a season, to win a championship.
- [72:13]
Patrick Bet-David
I see what you're saying. Okay, so keeping him disciplined to be a good Robin.
- [72:17]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah.
- [72:19]
Patrick Bet-David
Very interesting that you're saying that.
- [72:20]
Scottie Pippen
I still like my geniuses.
- [72:24]
Patrick Bet-David
This just got very interesting for me. Okay. So disciplined. Michael and Karl Malone, you and Drexler. Because Karl Malone's discipline. He scored 32, I think 30.
- [72:36]
Scottie Pippen
I may. I may give them the edge.
- [72:40]
Patrick Bet-David
You may give him the edge.
- [72:41]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah. Carl's a tough matchup.
- [72:43]
Patrick Bet-David
Okay. This just got very interesting. Scotty.
- [72:46]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah.
- [72:47]
Patrick Bet-David
So. Wow. So I learned if you have to choose between 100 million and winning a championship without Michael, you take the 100. But if it's 50, it looks like you did accounting in your mind. You're like, 50 million, 50% taxes. Agent 20 ends up to me, I'll take that shift. That was interesting. And then Dominique just got into the conversation today, and Drexel and a bunch of these other guys. When's the last time you and Michael spoke?
- [73:18]
Scottie Pippen
Oh, right around the pandemic.
- [73:20]
Patrick Bet-David
Oh. So it's been. It's been a minute since you. Is that the text exchange when he shot you? Text May of 2020, and he said, hey, Scotty, I heard you're upset. Let me know when you have a minute to speak. Is that the last time you guys spoke?
- [73:31]
Scottie Pippen
Something like that.
- [73:32]
Patrick Bet-David
Something like. Something like that. Did you actually call him? Like, did you guys talk, or did you just text them?
- [73:36]
Scottie Pippen
No, I think we end up speaking briefly.
- [73:40]
Patrick Bet-David
Did it end up being good, the conversation?
- [73:44]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah, I guess. Good and. Good and final.
- [73:49]
Patrick Bet-David
That's what it was. Good and final. Because of you or because of him?
- [73:58]
Scottie Pippen
Just. Yeah. Yeah. I don't. I, I, I. I don't want to pick because of who. It's just. Got it. Good and final.
- [74:12]
Patrick Bet-David
What's more likely to happen? Me going to Carbone in the next five years. Carbone in Miami? I don't know. What's your favorite restaurant say? Flaglers and Palm beach. Because it's closer to golf. Is it more likely of me seeing Michael and Barkley having dinner at Flaglers in Breakers, Palm beach, or is it more likely for me to see you and Michael having dinner in the next five, ten years at Flaglers?
- [74:37]
Scottie Pippen
I don't know what kind of dream you be having.
- [74:45]
Patrick Bet-David
What do you think, though? Which of those two is more likely to happen? There's a Vegas odds. Like, we're trying to bet some money here on this one.
- [74:50]
Scottie Pippen
I don't know. That's a tough one. I don't spend that much time in Florida, so I would probably say maybe. Highly likely. Maybe Charles over you. Yeah.
- [75:01]
Patrick Bet-David
Got it. It's. It's. It's. It's. That's. That's wild. And. And would you say a big part of it is the last dance and how that was portrayed? Would you say that was it? Would you say. Because I sit there and I watch. You know, for me, Kobe. I had Kobe at one of our. The late Kobe. I love Kobe. Kobe and I are six weeks apart. Our birthdays, and wow. I watched him play. We had a relationship at the tail end of his. Not even career, his life. It was a great moment. And he said some stuff about Shaq. And then Shaq and I had a conversation together years later, and it was great. And my son, till today, he's met a lot of different people. His favorite athlete he likes to talk about is Shaq. Shaq is his. Dylan loves Shaq.
- [75:57]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah.
- [75:58]
Patrick Bet-David
So. And then when you saw that one interview with Shaq and Kobe, they're sitting across from each other, right? That conversation that took place, and then you saw one with Magic and Isaiah. I don't know if you remember those interviews that they did, like 10 years ago, something like that. Eight years ago. 10 years ago. It was great to see Shaq and Kobe together. It was great to see Isaiah and Magic together where Isaiah got emotional and he got up and they hugged each other. And, you know, that whole thing with the two of them. Why is the tension so high with anything related to Michael? You and Michael Barkley and Michael?
- [76:36]
Scottie Pippen
Well, I don't know. I mean, I just think that Michael is a very difficult person to deal with. I played with him for years, so I know that, you know, when it's time for you to move in your direction, then go in your direction. Don't. Don't sit there and try to procrastinate or stretch it that the relationship is not where it was or not what it used to be, and it's never going to be the same. So why try and make something out of nothing or try to make something that was never there?
- [77:27]
Patrick Bet-David
So, yeah.
- [77:34]
Scottie Pippen
Great, great teammate, but just. We just never were great friends.
- [77:40]
Patrick Bet-David
Never. Even when you guys played?
- [77:42]
Scottie Pippen
No.
- [77:44]
Patrick Bet-David
So when you guys read the Dream Team, that one clip, when Ahmad Rashad asks and says, you know which one I'm talking about, when Ahmad says, hey, Michael, question for you. Three seconds left, fourth quarter. Who do you want to get the ball to go shoot, whatever. And he says, me, you know which clip I'm talking about. He says, I'm out of shot.
- [78:02]
Scottie Pippen
And he says, yeah.
- [78:03]
Patrick Bet-David
No, you. You says, yeah. What kind of a question is that? And then you guys are getting off the bus. He says, scott, this is the one right here. I. I don't play the clip, actually, you know what? You may be able to play the clip. Yeah, play the clip here. Do we have audio or. No rocks. I can't back up a little bit. Who would take the last shot? Me.
- [78:23]
Scottie Pippen
That's not question Me.
- [78:25]
Patrick Bet-David
So. And then you, if you want to posit. And this is. I think it's the right moment while you guys are getting off the bus and saying, where's Scotty? We got to go play golf. Where's Scotty? I think he's having a conversation. Did you guys golf a lot together or.
- [78:38]
Scottie Pippen
No. Never.
- [78:38]
Patrick Bet-David
You guys never go?
- [78:40]
Scottie Pippen
No.
- [78:41]
Patrick Bet-David
So who was he talking about to go golf with him? Rob. Wow. You guys never golfed together?
- [78:47]
Scottie Pippen
No.
- [78:49]
Patrick Bet-David
So when you guys played together, how often was it for you guys to have dinner together?
- [78:57]
Scottie Pippen
I mean, we may have, like, a pregame meal or something like that, but we would. It's always a big, big party of people.
- [79:07]
Patrick Bet-David
How many times did just you and Michael have dinner in Chicago? Chicago has a lot of great. Scotty, stop it. Scotty, stop it. You and Michael never had dinner together one on one?
- [79:20]
Scottie Pippen
No.
- [79:29]
Patrick Bet-David
Michael's house just sold. The one in Chicago.
- [79:32]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah, right.
- [79:33]
Patrick Bet-David
I think sold for like 9.6 million or so. Some number like that, if I'm not mistaken. We like the house. We, you know, we were interested, but possibly doing something with that, because the history in it. How often did you guys hang out in that house, go shooting basketball, talking, mentally getting ready for the playoffs?
- [79:51]
Scottie Pippen
I never shot basketball there. I actually would go over in the morning when Grover was training. We would train together.
- [80:00]
Patrick Bet-David
Scotty, can you get the mic a little bit?
- [80:01]
Scottie Pippen
I'm sorry. Yeah, I was actually. I would train with Michael, I guess the last three championships that we won, we trained together at his house, but other than that, we didn't really put a lot of time in away from basketball. Most of our time was spent, you know, whether we were working out or on the practice floor.
- [80:29]
Patrick Bet-David
That's so wild to me because, you know, that feedback was given sometimes about Kobe, that Kobe wasn't a guy that hung out with. With his teammates. First run that he had. And then Phil, you know, the story about Phil brings Michael in and he says, hey, Michael, I want you to meet Kobe. And Kobe says, you know, I beat you one on One. If we played one on one.
- [80:51]
Scottie Pippen
Right.
- [80:51]
Patrick Bet-David
You know, that exchange. And then Kobe, eventually, you can tell him. And Powell became best of buddies, brothers, family. You see pow with Vanessa, with family, it's emotional, all of that stuff. Wow, that's. That's hard to believe. Scotty, would you. Would you. Would you say he was such a. Oh, man. That's because sometimes when a guy is such an alpha at the highest level, the idea sometimes to lead your guys is be close enough to influence, but far enough to not make them too comfortable with you. The Prince Machiavelli talks about that. A lot of leaders talk about that, and it doesn't make sense to the average. It's kind of like, what are you talking about? Go build a relationship, go build a bond, et cetera, et cetera. Some guys go that route. I wonder how much of that was more from his analysis of, listen, I'm above, I'm the leader, I'm the head guy here. And he didn't want to get too close to his guys, especially if you're saying you guys never had dinner together. Scotty, no. And you never. You never golf because you weren't a golfer. Are you decent?
- [82:18]
Scottie Pippen
Both? I think a little. Little bit of both. I'm decent, but I didn't really care for the game much when I played.
- [82:24]
Patrick Bet-David
When season ended and it's off season, how often did you guys hang out in off season?
- [82:30]
Scottie Pippen
0. Who was your guy?
- [82:31]
Patrick Bet-David
Was it more Horus, you and Horus, you and Dennis, you and probably Armstrong.
- [82:37]
Scottie Pippen
When I was there, I was probably more Horse.
- [82:39]
Patrick Bet-David
Who was. Who was close to Michael on the team? Him and BJ were close. I mean, when he came back to that one practice, when BJ and him speaking and saying, hey, come and shoot a little bit.
- [82:56]
Scottie Pippen
I don't know about that one, but if you say so.
- [82:59]
Patrick Bet-David
Well, no, listen, if I'm saying it, I'm just saying it because I saw it. I don't know if I. I have the credibility of having been there. I just read about it.
- [83:07]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah. I mean, there were times when guys that were brought in that kind of bonded with Michael, Sam Vinson, Daryl Walker, but they were veteran players that had been around him probably previously, probably from college. But as far as players that he played with in the 90s, he didn't really bond with players on that team.
- [83:34]
Patrick Bet-David
But I thought he was good friends with Oakley. I thought him and Oakley were very.
- [83:38]
Scottie Pippen
Oakley wasn't on that team.
- [83:39]
Patrick Bet-David
No, no, not. No. But Oakley, from the beginning era, when he was coming up, wasn't Oakley One of his teammates, when they got rid of him, he was upset about it because he liked Oakley and they had a friendship together.
- [83:50]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah, that's the story that's being was told, but I don't know where that relationship is today.
- [84:01]
Patrick Bet-David
Oh, okay. Well, I don't know what that relationship is today, but I. I don't know which story was when. One time you guys are playing the Knicks and he says, hey, Oak, let's go have dinner together. Oh. This was part of his hall of Fame speech, if I'm not mistaken. When Pat Riley said. Was it Pat Riley? Was it Pop?
- [84:18]
Scottie Pippen
Pat didn't. Didn't want the Knicks players hanging out with us.
- [84:22]
Patrick Bet-David
Well, Pat ran it like a mob boss. Pat wasn't a regular. You know, he was a. And then Michael's like, what do you mean? You know, no, I can't, because I'm with the Knicks. So Patan, the greatest respect you can have for great players to show him none. During the 1993 Eastern Conference finals between the Knicks and Riley's comment was in response to Bulls complaints about officiating go a little bit lower. Riley believed that players should be hardworking, disciplined. Riley supposed to work the Knicks, who advanced 94. 5. Riley is considered one of the greatest NBA figures of all time. He won seven champ. Yeah. And he owns the patent on three Pete, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. Huh? Who. Who? Rob, can you. Who was Michael's best friend in the NBA?
- [85:14]
Scottie Pippen
I don't know. You got Charles Barkley while they played.
- [85:20]
Patrick Bet-David
I don't know, by the way. So we can, you know, transition to the next story. But I'll tell you how I process this. And, Scotty, whatever I say, please tear it apart. Don't just kind of let me get away with saying this here. I want you to tear it apart and say, you have no clue what you're talking about. So there's no way a guy does what Michael did. You know the number of scoring titles, Finals mvp. You know, one guy who was the mvp, Finals mvp. You know, defensive player of the year. And he's only four people have ever done that. And he's the only guy that's done it four times. You know, the one that we all read about and we all see about in a number of seasons, he played 82 games. And the phrase about the fact that I'm not going to miss a game because a father may be the only game, he's bringing a son over to the game that I'm going to go out and give my best because I owe it to that father that brought his kid. And being a guy that was a sportsman, the face, taking it to different eras. There's something that he said at the end of the Last Dance, and I'm curious to know how you process this, because I don't know if anybody's asking you of this. Remember at the end when he gets emotional and he steps away and he says, look, if you can't understand me, that we did this, and I wanted to win and I wanted to do this, and that was the only time that he got emotional and got away. How did you process that? That moment when he's looking at that iPad and he's kind of given a message and he needed a break.
- [86:51]
Scottie Pippen
I didn't see it.
- [86:52]
Patrick Bet-David
You don't watch the Last Dance?
- [86:54]
Scottie Pippen
I didn't see that part of it.
- [86:56]
Patrick Bet-David
So you didn't watch all the 10 episodes?
- [86:58]
Scottie Pippen
No.
- [86:58]
Patrick Bet-David
After what episode did you stop watching it?
- [87:05]
Scottie Pippen
Probably. I don't know. Probably six, seven.
- [87:09]
Patrick Bet-David
The Ku. Coach episode.
- [87:11]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah.
- [87:12]
Patrick Bet-David
You saw that episode? Was that the one where you're like, you know what? Screw this, I'm done?
- [87:17]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah, I didn't want to see it. My. My. My kids got turned off on it, so it's kind of turned me off, so I didn't have any interest to watch it anymore.
- [87:26]
Patrick Bet-David
Yeah, well, very interesting. Very interesting. But. But to me, sometimes it's when. When. When a guy that comes in and is the lead dog and got a lot of the thorns that came his way, it's very hard to be a Michael. And I think it's also very hard for anybody to understand Michael. Anybody to understand Michael. I think there's only a few guys that can probably expound on that, to understand the. The level of, you know, craziness to compete and the drive. And it's not. It's not a. I don't how many people you can put in that to compare it to. Maybe a Brady and a couple other guys that, you know, that's so interesting. I just learned a lot, Scotty.
- [88:23]
Scottie Pippen
Oh, yeah. Well, I will say he. Michael, he was built different, competitive 24. 7. Not too many people are built like that.
- [88:36]
Patrick Bet-David
I agree.
- [88:37]
Scottie Pippen
Willing to compete at any level and at anything. So when you look at these players in Today's era being LeBron, there's really no comparison. When you talk about the level of competitiveness. Michael bunched up all of his competitiveness and sort of exposed it out to the world. Within 12 to 14 years, we saw his whole resume. His competitiveness, his drive, his will to win. What he's want to do. When someone like LeBron has to spread that out for 20 plus years, it's not the same drive, it's not the same fight, it's not the same hunger. And so when people try to make those comparisons of those two players, it's like talking to someone in the front seat, in the back seat. They ain't even in the same lane.
- [89:51]
Patrick Bet-David
Did you see today, by the way, what a freaking point you just made, condensing time frames. You know, I don't know if you saw the stat today who posted it that said, yes, LeBron may have passed Michael in the most 30 point games. It'll take another 32 years to pass Michael in 40 point games, right?
- [90:05]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah. It's like it's. It's not even worth talking about the two of them. When you ask who's better, LeBron or Michael, you can't ask me, who's the goat between LeBron and Michael? Neither one of them are goats. They both won differently. You can't put them at the top of the pinnacle. Magic Johnson to me is a bigger goat than anybody because of how he led, how he brought a whole team, how when the greatest scorer in the game, Kareem, was not there in him as a rookie, center steps in and plays a position that no one even knew he could play. That's transcending what you can do as a player.
- [91:02]
Patrick Bet-David
Yeah. That's why when you ask the question, how do you define it for goat? Your definition is very different. You know, to me, the definition of comparing a LeBron versus a Michael, you know, LeBron had a Wade, LeBron had a Bosch, LeBron had a Kyrie, LeBron had a Anthony Davis, and Michael had you.
- [91:31]
Scottie Pippen
It's a different game too. It's a different game.
- [91:36]
Patrick Bet-David
I think for me, when I. LeBron.
- [91:38]
Scottie Pippen
Got lanes every night when we played, there were no lanes. Wasn't nothing but hardwood floor. If you go to the basket, you're gonna hit the wood. There's no comparison. There's the basketball in the late 80s, until the early 90s. Physical, hard nose, no layups. Earn it from the free throw line. Today's game, it's about three point shooting. It's about driving it to the basket, finishing. Did you hear me say earn it at the free throw line? That doesn't even exist in today's game. It's just about shooting the ball. Shooting the ball.
- [92:31]
Patrick Bet-David
You said one time when you had a conversation with Michael about when he went to the Rockets and Barkley was a teammate and he Said something to you. He says, I probably should have listened to Michael a year ago when he said that Charles will never win a champion because he doesn't show any dedication. He's a very selfish guy. Then he said all this stuff to you. Right? That's my reason for wanting to get away from playing with him because he just doesn't show the dedication. You know, those are tough words to be said from Michael to a friend. That is Charles. Looking back now and having the wisdom that you have today, you had a lot of. Everybody wanted you, you could have gone anywhere, anybody, and everybody wanted you. What would have been a different situation? What do you look at where you said?
- [93:16]
Scottie Pippen
Well, I'm gonna be honest that my, My options weren't that great. Really, because of the way that the CBA got it was set up.
- [93:27]
Patrick Bet-David
Got it. And who did you have as options?
- [93:30]
Scottie Pippen
Well, I had Phoenix, but it was for less money.
- [93:34]
Patrick Bet-David
Got it.
- [93:38]
Scottie Pippen
I think Philadelphia didn't want to go play in a cold climate.
- [93:42]
Patrick Bet-David
Who did Philly have at that time? Was it AI? Was it still AI? Was it? Yeah, it was AI. Yeah, because it was tail end. So it would have been AI. Yeah, they had. Well, he didn't have. He had the Kimber Mutombo, I think. I don't know if he had a leftover.
- [93:58]
Scottie Pippen
I showed no interest. It was. I definitely wanted to be in a warm climate, and I saw Houston as an opportunity for me really, to play with two veteran guys and that we could, you know, make something happen real quick. And it was the lockout season, but it was definitely a short lived. In fact, Charles started out working out with me and he was all dedicated in working out, me and him. With Grover. I took Grover down there and he lasted about a month.
- [94:38]
Patrick Bet-David
Was it because. What, it's just a little too much with Grover?
- [94:42]
Scottie Pippen
No, it wasn't too much for Grover. It was too much for him.
- [94:44]
Patrick Bet-David
No, that's what I'm saying. To go with Grover is a little.
- [94:47]
Scottie Pippen
Too much for Charles. Well, yeah, he. He wanted to enjoy his nightlife. And our. Our workouts were predicated on getting up in the morning and training before practice.
- [94:59]
Patrick Bet-David
Yeah, I mean, I can see that. And you know, it's. It's when the. When the business pays you a lot of money and you have the ability to go party, sometimes it's hard to say, I want to. I want to get up and go get that ring. And you know, for everybody, every. By the way, who's your favorite teammate you ever had and who was your best teammate you ever had?
- [95:17]
Scottie Pippen
Wow. Well, can I give them both to Michael? I mean, I can't knock him and say he was a bad teammate. I can't knock him and say he wasn't my favorite. I mean, we had a lot of success, so I would say he probably fit both of those categories.
- [95:39]
Patrick Bet-David
Scotty, you're interesting, buddy. I got to tell you. Who's your second favorite?
- [95:45]
Scottie Pippen
I mean, I love playing with Horst Grant. I love playing with Dennis, and I would probably say Horst was probably my favorite at first because we got drafted together, we went to the Bulls together, we won our first three championships together, but he ended up leaving. So the bond with Michael became better. And just on the court, really. Not. Not off the court, but more dinners.
- [96:19]
Patrick Bet-David
With Horace than Michael, that's for sure.
- [96:21]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah.
- [96:22]
Patrick Bet-David
Yeah. Is that cat story true, by the way?
- [96:25]
Scottie Pippen
What's the cat story? I gotta hear this.
- [96:28]
Patrick Bet-David
Whose cat got sick or someone's cat?
- [96:31]
Scottie Pippen
What is that? Kid, tell me this. Daughter true story. Scotty, be honest here, because this catch up, that's. That was like a Horse Grant, sort of. I'm skipping practice, kind of.
- [96:42]
Patrick Bet-David
By the way, there's probably only going to be three people listening to the story with the cat, but what's. What's the cat story?
- [96:47]
Scottie Pippen
Well, Horace Grant would always skip practice.
- [96:50]
Patrick Bet-David
Why would he skip practice?
- [96:51]
Scottie Pippen
His cat got sick.
- [96:53]
Patrick Bet-David
It was a joke, though.
- [96:54]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah.
- [96:54]
Patrick Bet-David
Did he actually have a cat?
- [96:56]
Scottie Pippen
No.
- [97:01]
Patrick Bet-David
So who actually believed it? Was it. Was it like, is it a joke or was he seriously.
- [97:06]
Scottie Pippen
My cats joke. But because, you know, NBA players, if you call in and say you're sick, the team can't do nothing but take your word. Right. So horse would always. Not always, but he'll call it occasionally and say he was sick. And so we had this older coach, coach Johnny Bach. He was our defensive coach. So he always would say, well, his cat got sick. Well.
- [97:32]
Patrick Bet-David
And it stuck.
- [97:33]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah.
- [97:34]
Patrick Bet-David
But in reality, he never got sick to say because of his cat. No, it was a joke that the coach meant. Well, listen.
- [97:41]
Scottie Pippen
Exactly.
- [97:42]
Patrick Bet-David
That coach, that one little joke is still here 30 years later, 40 years later. Got to give him credit. So final stuff before we wrap up here, in regards to Zion, Okay. In regards to some of these guys that are coming and they're getting paid. What? They're getting paid. I remember Michael said something about, like, some of these guys are getting paid without having to earn it. I don't know when this was. He said it could have been 20 years ago or 15 years. He said it a while back. When you look at a Zion, have you ever spoken to him one on one and trying to coach him and give him feedback or.
- [98:13]
Scottie Pippen
No.
- [98:14]
Patrick Bet-David
Have you guys?
- [98:14]
Scottie Pippen
No.
- [98:15]
Patrick Bet-David
So, okay, so if Zion is listening, I mean he. So many people give him feedback of what to do. This is a guy, if I'm not mistaken, he's got a 43 inch vertical leap. I don't know what the number is. Rob, can you pull up Zion's vertical leap? I've seen 41, I've seen 43, I've seen 46. Okay, so 45 and 46 and a half vertical leap. Okay. I don't know what the number is, but he's got a big vertical leap. The weight, the ripping the shoes in college when he's playing is like, you know when Paul George jumping in and you know, you remember this, this guy's the amount of power that he has. A guy like Zion Williamson, who's right now, I think only 24 years old, do you foresee him changing and being able to have a long standing career, performing hall of Fame type of guy or you don't see that happening?
- [99:03]
Scottie Pippen
No, I don't see it happening. I don't know how much longer he's going to be on the court. I mean, I think that the organization has been over backwards to maintain some professionalism to the fact that this kid is not even on the court, he's not even working to be a professional basketball player. It's almost like when you watch him, you're seeing a kid sitting on a college bench and still hasn't found what's going to be fruitful for him in life, whether it's his diet, putting the right people around you, getting yourself ready, staying healthy. I don't know what to say about his career thus far because all indications shows me that if there's a lockout, if there's any injuries major to him, it's going to take him out.
- [100:19]
Patrick Bet-David
If there's a lockout, it's going to take him out. Because what lack of discipline, eating, putting on weight, getting to 300 pounds.
- [100:26]
Scottie Pippen
He hasn't shown that he's disciplined enough to take care of himself physically yet.
- [100:31]
Patrick Bet-David
Is he savable?
- [100:33]
Scottie Pippen
Oh, he's definitely savable. There's a lot of GMs out there watching and hoping that New Orleans sort of dropped the ball. I mean there's organizations out there would love to embrace this kid and really get him to where he can be a great NBA player because I think putting him in a position where he is sort of a veteran. I mean, I look for the kid that went to Duke is the oldest player on their team. Well, he's probably three or four years older than Zion, so veteran leadership around this kid may help him and to help jumpstart his career in a sense that it's just as important for him off the court to work on himself as it is on the court.
- [101:27]
Patrick Bet-David
Who, who, who do you think would put him in his place where he would have a level of fear and respect for that person.
- [101:35]
Scottie Pippen
Either gonna make him or break him? Somebody like that, like Pat Riley in the Miami Heat organization.
- [101:42]
Patrick Bet-David
Well, you saw how much heat Pat got this week when Jimmy's saying he wants to leave. And somebody came out, I don't know who came out and criticized Pat saying, you're just too much. You're always pushing people out. Who's. Who said that about Pat? Somebody criticized him hardcore. And he said, maybe you're right. Maybe it is time.
- [101:57]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah, I don't know who said that about Pat, but I, I, I did see where he kind of took the blame and pointed it back at himself and said, maybe I am.
- [102:10]
Patrick Bet-David
But, oh, Paul Pierce. It was. I saw Paul Pierce saying, yeah, if you can pull it up, Rob. Paul Pierce slammed Riley for disrespecting Butler, the 6M All Star. Once I get whatever I get out of you, you can get the F out of here. Pure set. That's what Pat Riley's mentality is. Yeah, and Pat Riley said, maybe he's right, but I don't know if I agree with that. I don't know if I agree with that because I have a hard time with that mentality with Pierre saying something like that. Look, he can say whatever he wants. He scored 26,000 career points. He's a legend and a champion when they won.
- [102:42]
Scottie Pippen
But, Well, I don't want to say it the way Paul Pierce said it, but it's been known for many years that the Miami Heat does exactly what Paul, period, said.
- [102:56]
Patrick Bet-David
Let's say he does. Let's say he does. Okay, who else can shape up to them? So why did LeBron, Dwayne, and Bosh go there? Why did so many people want they left? No, I get that. But they won championships.
- [103:09]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah, well, when you're young, you can work for Pat Riley, but as you get older, like a Jimmy Butler, his system will break you down.
- [103:21]
Patrick Bet-David
I can see that. And by the way, you know what that could tell me as well? Look, Nick Saban wasn't a good NFL coach, but he went and became the greatest college football coach of all time.
- [103:29]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah, but I think you have to look at the game differently from a whole perspective.
- [103:35]
Patrick Bet-David
What do you mean by that?
- [103:36]
Scottie Pippen
These players ain't about winning championships no more. They're about running a business.
- [103:41]
Patrick Bet-David
Got it?
- [103:42]
Scottie Pippen
Okay. So Jimmy Butler knows that his body is his business. And if you want to continue to use my service, then pay me, take care of my. My business.
- [103:56]
Patrick Bet-David
What a bad way of looking at it for the fan. What a bad way of looking at it for the fan.
- [104:01]
Scottie Pippen
I hate to say that the fans have to see it that way.
- [104:05]
Patrick Bet-David
Yeah.
- [104:06]
Scottie Pippen
But the players got to maximize what they can get in such a small window.
- [104:11]
Patrick Bet-David
Interesting you're saying that. I mean, I can bring up some stats, maximize earnings. So Scotty, when you played the median NBA salary in 93, 94 season was $1.3 million.
- [104:23]
Scottie Pippen
Wow.
- [104:24]
Patrick Bet-David
That was a median salary $1.3 million. Right. These guys right now it's $5.57 million. The average salary today in the NBA at that time, the average salary was 1.75 million. The average salary today in, the NBA is $11.124 million. That's almost 6x. That's not 7x.
- [104:48]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah, well, I mean, in all fairness, I'm always be on the player side.
- [104:55]
Patrick Bet-David
I understand that.
- [104:56]
Scottie Pippen
You ought to be. I definitely think that, you know, from a player standpoint, I've been in this situation, I've been in the game that you got to maximize your value. You're not going to stay that valuable forever. So Jimmy Baller value is up right now in two to three years or whatever. It may not be up. So I respect him speaking.
- [105:21]
Patrick Bet-David
This is actually nothing to do for me with Jimmy. I'm actually Jimmy go do what Jimmy wants to do. I'm not. This is not a Jimmy conversation to me. This is a Paul conversation because watch what you said when I asked you, who do you think can shape up Zion?
- [105:34]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah, I said Riley. I said Paul Riley's the way they do it. But I also say it young. He's gonna make him or break him.
- [105:44]
Patrick Bet-David
Yeah, well, listen, my opinion, you ain't gonna find too many Rileys nowadays. You're just not.
- [105:52]
Scottie Pippen
No, but there's. There's not gonna be that type of management in the game much longer. Unfortunately caused players are now have a lot more balance. They have a lot more rights in the, in the game in terms of not playing with injuries, not playing back to backs.
- [106:23]
Patrick Bet-David
So to me, you know what that says. Try that mindset in the NFL. It won't work. Good luck with that mindset in the NFL and in the NFL, these guys are you Know, you're talking about life ending risk on the line, the way you play, neck paralyzed, all this other stuff. Okay. You know, you don't hear stuff like that. The worst thing I've seen in the NBA last 30 years was Paul, George. Remember that hole when he came down on the leg and it broke?
- [106:56]
Scottie Pippen
That was Olympics.
- [106:57]
Patrick Bet-David
That was. Yeah. No, he was, he was with the Pacers when that happened. I don't think it was the Olympics. It was a. Can you pull up when he did that? I thought he was. I don't know which one it is. It's. It's right there. It's the third, Third line, second picture. Third line, third. Right there. That's him right there. Yeah. When he broke the leg, it literally split in half. Right? I don't know. I, I think that's a part of why I'm. It's, it's, it's unattractive to watch this game. Don't get me wrong. A person's going to come up like George, Carl.
- [107:28]
Scottie Pippen
That was the Olympics, though.
- [107:30]
Patrick Bet-David
Was it the. Maybe you're right. Maybe it was the Olympics. Based on what you're. Yeah, it was the Olympics. You're right. It was the Olympics. No, no, you're right about this one. You were wrong about LeBron winning only two. He won four, but you're right about this one. So to me, I think that's what's unattractive about the NBA. I think the players are so protected and, and, you know, it's like, oh, my God, don't offend the players.
- [107:54]
Scottie Pippen
You think that's what's hurt the game?
- [107:57]
Patrick Bet-David
No, I, I, Yeah, because the priority is not fans. First, you forget who, like for example, any. Anybody that becomes too wealthy in business. The moment I forget that we don't have this business, but our guys that are working as hard as they're working or the viewers that are watching and you start thinking you're pompous and everything's around you. What are you talking about? You have nothing without the fans. If you don't have the fans, who pays you? Fans? The guy that created the game. And then fans showed up and the fans kept supporting and that caused to get more eyeballs and sponsorship and that was able to get guys from getting paid 80 grand a year, 20 grand a year to making 80 grand sometimes a minute. You play for some players. Right. This game is a very, very different game today. And, but what's this one, Rob? This is Colin Cowherd saying what kind of. Back to what you were talking about.
- [108:54]
Scottie Pippen
Being Detached from the regular people, being detached from the fans and the effect it's had.
- [108:58]
Patrick Bet-David
What do you think about Colin, by the way?
- [109:01]
Scottie Pippen
Oh, I love him.
- [109:03]
Patrick Bet-David
Really?
- [109:04]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah.
- [109:04]
Patrick Bet-David
Play this clip. Rob Goodell has navigated a multitude of cultural changes. That CTE issue that, that was bad and overlooked for a long time by a previous commissioner or two. And here he's made the pat interesting. He tinkers, he evolves. And the NBA, meanwhile, ratings are down 48% in the last 12 years and they have fallen off a cliff this year. And Adam Silver's solution is let's make the courts brighter. And I like the NBA, but the All Star game is now embarrassing and I think load management is a shame on the league. It is a, it is a really bad look for a family of four to go to a game. And Giannis doesn't play or MB doesn't play. I'm sorry. Go ask the Democrats. Be warned, once you detach from regular people in America, you will pay a price. What do you think?
- [110:08]
Scottie Pippen
I. That's true fact. I mean, fans are students of the game as well. They're not just fans. You know, they, they know the game. And so you seeing players over there that you worked hard all week to earn money and to bring your family out for a family evening, and now they got sitting over there in sweats. That's not even a team uniform. And it's like, really, Is this what I saved my 800 bucks for, to come see this guy stand on the sideline?
- [110:50]
Patrick Bet-David
Yeah.
- [110:51]
Scottie Pippen
So, yeah, he's truly right. I mean, but that's the direction of where the game is. You cannot make players play. And to be honest, this will continue to go on.
- [111:08]
Patrick Bet-David
Oh, I agree.
- [111:08]
Scottie Pippen
No, I'm not going to stop.
- [111:10]
Patrick Bet-David
I agree with you.
- [111:11]
Scottie Pippen
Players are now at the point where they are saying, I'm going to play 50 games. Wow.
- [111:19]
Patrick Bet-David
And owners can't see shit and you're.
- [111:22]
Scottie Pippen
Gonna pay me for 82?
- [111:24]
Patrick Bet-David
That is unfreaking believable, Scotty. That's why I would never own an NBA team. I got a call on the opportunity to be a minority owner of two NBA teams. And a guy called me for MLB and a guy called me for the Raiders. When this guy called me, he's a well known guy that sells teams and I was interested in the Raiders, but to me, you know, it's between that or the Yankees. I'm gonna go Yankees. So I won Yankees. I bought two rounds of ownership. Anybody that sells, I was interested. And when the NBA came about, I had zero interest because I don't believe in the product. I think they've destroyed the product. Where who would want like even a Mark Cuban as a business astute businessman, sold. By the way, don't get me wrong, the NBA is going to keep getting paid. Why? Because they're winning internationally. The eyeballs are increasing. They're gonna keep making money. The product is not going away. Guys are gonna start making 80, $100 million here. The next five to 10 years, they're gonna get paid.
- [112:23]
Scottie Pippen
So is that 48% viewership being down, not hurting them here?
- [112:28]
Patrick Bet-David
That's here because they can go internationally and still be able to sell marketers and say, hey, look how many eyeballs we're getting here. But to me, yeah, I, yeah, I have a hard time with that. I have a hard time when you forget fans, customers, fans, customers. We go to dinner and we go to restaurants. If my kids don't say thank you, please. What makes you think because you're. We have, we have an okay lifestyle, that we get to think, no, no, that person serving us, we have to be respectful to this person. We have to tip them properly. We have to take care of these folks. It gives me the MBA of thinking you're above the fans. It's unattractive. And by the way, that's me. It's coming from a place of ask me stuff on stats from 1992, 2010, 2015. I'm gonna be able to get you some stats and numbers because I follow this game so closely. What?
- [113:37]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah, well, it's truly a different game. The players are a lot more sensitive in a sense that they don't want any reaction with the fans. They don't want the fans having any type of camaraderie with them at all. They always feel that fans are a threat. And they have sort of, to me, they have separated themselves. It's the players and it's the fans. And if you say something to me, it better be fucking nice or I'm going to have you removed from the arena.
- [114:18]
Patrick Bet-David
How do you feel about that?
- [114:19]
Scottie Pippen
I think it's bad. I think it's bad that players cannot take criticism. I think it's. I used to love going in the stands and having people call me out of my name.
- [114:31]
Patrick Bet-David
Yeah, didn't you call out what's his name when you dunked on Ewing and you shoved him and who was on the sideline? Spike. Yeah.
- [114:38]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah. So I, I embrace the fans being a part of, you know, getting at me, you know, trying to aggravate me. Now. I don't see that, you know, I don't see how you fault is that.
- [114:54]
Patrick Bet-David
Is that Adam Silver that accepts it because that comes from the top. Like, kids can cry and say anything, but father and mother can say no, toughen up.
- [115:03]
Scottie Pippen
I can't say words where that come from, but I can say that the game misses that they miss that irritating fan. They miss that heckler that was irritating you and caused you to miss your free throws. Yeah, those are things that, you know, were a part of a game when I played.
- [115:30]
Patrick Bet-David
By the way, just out of curiosity, who. Who were some of the toughest guys? Like remember that one time Vernon Maxwell and Orey Vernon ran up to like the 16th row that one game. I don't know if you remember that or not. Do you remember that?
- [115:41]
Scottie Pippen
I don't remember Vernon, but Vernon was one of the toughest guys. He's a very close friend of mine and yeah, he was, he was a tough guy, but I mean, there was a lot of guys played in the league and that, you know, I'm talking like street tough.
- [115:56]
Patrick Bet-David
Like tough tough.
- [115:58]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah, I mean, but street tough can't go up in the stands, you know what I'm saying? We still have to be professional. I fully agree, you know, but there are guys who've gotten out of order and out of hand. But you know, the commissioner has always been able to take care of that and keep things in order. But I think now the fans are so afraid that they can't even call a player out in any bad way that Stop it is looked at as a threat.
- [116:30]
Patrick Bet-David
I say it comes from LeBron down to the league. I know you can't say that, you know, it's not something that, you know you're going to be seen as an analyst and some of the Barclay will say, some of these guys will say it, but I think it comes from the top down and I don't think it's an exciting. By the way, I saw Vernon Maxwell the other day, called out a former player, Vincent Askew. You haven't heard that name in a long time. I saw that he called me for ten grand. Don't give him the money, never pays back or whatever. Who were some of the tough guys that the players knew? They're tough, but nobody talked about it. That you played against Oakley, was he one of them?
- [117:07]
Scottie Pippen
I guess Oak could say he's one of the tough guys. But you know what, that era guys kind of faded in the 90s. You know, the Oakleys, the Buck Williams, you know, Buddha, James Ellard, who I played with you know, guys that would just give hard files. Those were guys that were considered tough guys. Guys that, when you came in the lane, you're gonna have to earn it.
- [117:34]
Patrick Bet-David
Who did we think was tough but wasn't tough? Like, as a fan, we're like, you guys thought he was tough, he wasn't tough.
- [117:40]
Scottie Pippen
Are you a New York Knicks fan?
- [117:43]
Patrick Bet-David
Who were you gonna say?
- [117:44]
Scottie Pippen
No, I'm just. I'm just kidding. No, I.
- [117:47]
Patrick Bet-David
Listen, if you said Nicks, there's three names I think about. So. Were you calling someone out with the Knicks? Were you calling Mason? Were you calling Xavier?
- [117:56]
Scottie Pippen
Okay, they were all tough guys, but New York thought that they were the toughest team out of everybody on the block back in, in the 90s. Plus, in the early 90s, we had some great battles with the story you.
- [118:08]
Patrick Bet-David
Hear about Michael Punch and Steve Kerr. Did you see Michael fighting a lot of people? Was that the only instance?
- [118:13]
Scottie Pippen
I didn't see him fight anyone.
- [118:15]
Patrick Bet-David
Okay. But the Steve Kerr. You're so funny. Is that like the.
- [118:19]
Scottie Pippen
I. I didn't see it.
- [118:20]
Patrick Bet-David
Oh, you didn't see the one with Steve.
- [118:22]
Scottie Pippen
I must have missed practice that day.
- [118:24]
Patrick Bet-David
He's joking right now, right? Is that. Which is like the code of keeping.
- [118:27]
Scottie Pippen
No, my cat was sick.
- [118:35]
Patrick Bet-David
Oh, man. I think. I think. I think I get it. No, but that's cool. And by the way, last one with Wimby, you think Wimby's gonna go down as a. Is he. Is he gonna end up being like, okay, yeah, he seems scary.
- [118:49]
Scottie Pippen
Yeah, I do think he's. He's gonna go down as one of the great ones. I mean, from a statistical standpoint, it's just like I said when I saw LeBron run, come in the game, these guys are going to dominate the game statistically because of how the rules have been being in change. Like, I mean, this guy can shoot a three pointer whenever he get ready. It's ridiculous from, like, that's the crazy part about it. It's like you can't even contest his shot. You know, we think that Steph Curry got the freedom to dribble and shoot the ball, but now you're talking about a guy that's seven foot six.
- [119:26]
Patrick Bet-David
Yeah.
- [119:27]
Scottie Pippen
And, you know, with unbelievable range. You know, just watching him other night, step across half court, pull up a three, you know, that's, that's what we're, we're going to be seeing in the, in the next 10 years of the game is a lot more shooting from a lot bigger guys.
- [119:48]
Patrick Bet-David
Which. Which of these records are most likely to Be broken. Quadruple double. Right. I think Hakeem David, I think Alvin Robertson was the weird guy on the list that I wouldn't have expected him to be on the list. Alvin's the one that got into a first fight with Shaq.
- [120:03]
Scottie Pippen
I don't expect that record to be broken.
- [120:05]
Patrick Bet-David
No one's going to do a quadruple double.
- [120:07]
Scottie Pippen
Nah.
- [120:08]
Patrick Bet-David
So for sure you don't think anyone.
- [120:10]
Scottie Pippen
Because I think Hakeem may have got it because of steals and blocks. Okay. Steve? Yeah. I don't see Wimby getting the steals, so.
- [120:21]
Patrick Bet-David
Okay. Got it. So you're okay. So that's fully out. So you don't think.
- [120:26]
Scottie Pippen
I don't. I don't see him. Wemby doing it like Hakeem. If you look at the stats, he's probably the top 10 in steals throughout the league. So it wasn't an accident that he got a quadruple double, by the way.
- [120:39]
Patrick Bet-David
Was he feared? Was he as tough as I read about? Like, was tough. Would he say stuff to you like, hey, I'm gonna kill you, or was he like, was he that kind of a guy?
- [120:47]
Scottie Pippen
He was this tough, physical guy. Had great hands. You know, he's like you. You couldn't put the ball around him. You know, he was so good with his feet, his hands. So having those soccer skills. He's always was at the ball.
- [121:03]
Patrick Bet-David
Oh, wow.
- [121:03]
Scottie Pippen
And had great hands in terms of how to knock it away.
- [121:07]
Patrick Bet-David
Got it. I saw a clip the other day with David Robinson. I wonder how tough he was because I remember when one time ended the season, him and Shaq are going for the scoring title. I think he scored 72 points against the clip or some number like that. Check. At 58. The last game of the season, he had 72. And I don't know who ended up winning the scoring title. I think it could have been him that won it. 100 point game. Will anybody break down?
- [121:32]
Scottie Pippen
Yes.
- [121:35]
Patrick Bet-David
Yes. What kind of a player will break it? More like a Steph Curry or more like a Shaq?
- [121:39]
Scottie Pippen
More like.
- [121:40]
Patrick Bet-David
Oh, more like. Really? Do you collect. Do you collect cards?
- [121:44]
Scottie Pippen
No, I don't collect guards. But I think for that to happen today because I think. Isn't the court bigger than what it was when Wilt scored 100?
- [121:57]
Patrick Bet-David
Oh, I wouldn't know because I don't.
- [121:58]
Scottie Pippen
Think it was a three point shots for it back.
- [122:00]
Patrick Bet-David
No, for sure. They didn't have three point shots that I know.
- [122:03]
Scottie Pippen
But I think that Wimby would be the guy if it could happen because of his size. He can shorten up the court. His size, his. His range.
- [122:18]
Patrick Bet-David
He's the guy. Well, anybody beating the. The six championships, undefeated, 6, 0.
- [122:29]
Scottie Pippen
I. I don't think so.
- [122:31]
Patrick Bet-David
Okay. All right. Well, Scotty, I've really enjoyed this conversation with you.
- [122:39]
Scottie Pippen
I've had a great time here. It's been a. An awesome time.
- [122:43]
Patrick Bet-David
Yeah. And some of your answers, I have to tell you, like, I was not expecting some of those answers, but it was from a fan standpoint. I want to fall in love with the game again, but I fell in love with the game of when you played. That's the game when I came here November 28, 1990. The reason why my team became the Lakers is because you guys beat them that year. 19. 19. 90.
- [123:09]
Scottie Pippen
91 season.
- [123:10]
Patrick Bet-David
That was the year where that famous picture of Magic, and, you know, Michael, he's defending him. That one picture of the, you know, the Sam Perkins, that whole era, it.
- [123:20]
Scottie Pippen
Was all of the magic in Michael.
- [123:22]
Patrick Bet-David
Yeah, that. That, that. That's not the picture. There's a famous picture of them two guarding each other.
- [123:27]
Scottie Pippen
That's it there.
- [123:28]
Patrick Bet-David
That's the one. You got it. That's the one. It was just the era, and you guys broke my heart. Because I was in la. I said, I'm gonna be a Laker for life. And I rooted for the lakers up until LeBron came to the Lakers. That's. That's me.
- [123:43]
Scottie Pippen
Because to me, it's kind of funny you say that.
- [123:46]
Patrick Bet-David
Tell me why.
- [123:48]
Scottie Pippen
I would think that would make you more of a Laker fan, but you're not a guy that is sort of jumping on the bandwagon championship. You believe in the journey. And I love a real Laker.
- [124:02]
Patrick Bet-David
I was a Steinbrenner guy and not Steinbrenner. A Jerry Buss guy and a Steinbrenner. I love owners that want to win so bad that they're willing to do anything. And Jerry Buss won 10 and 33 years. Maybe the greatest owner of all time, by the way. Jerry Buss and the relationship he had with the players and what he did. But. Yeah, but, you know, as a fan, you know, watching you over the years and now having a conversation, this was a treat. I appreciate you for coming out, Rob Gang, if you enjoyed it, I want you to do me a favor and support Scotty by going and buying his book and reading the story from him. Rob, put the link below for Scotty. And then, if anything, Scotty said, you were kind of like, what's going on here? By the way? You know, one thing we haven't even asked that. Some of you guys probably wondering is you said you made satoshi and you're not supposed to talk about it on Twitter and bitcoin and all this stuff. What is that all about? Like this?
- [125:00]
Scottie Pippen
Well, I said I had a dream. But, you know, after speaking to my good friend Michael Saylor, he said we don't talk about satoshi. He said, we don't talk about satoshi. Learning from my mentor. I'm. I'm gonna take what he said as some good advice.
- [125:21]
Patrick Bet-David
And your mentors worked around $10 billion today?
- [125:25]
Scottie Pippen
Yes.
- [125:25]
Patrick Bet-David
He's doing okay for himself.
- [125:26]
Scottie Pippen
He's doing great.
- [125:27]
Patrick Bet-David
Were you with him New Year's Eve? Were you?
- [125:29]
Scottie Pippen
No, I didn't make it down for New Year's Eve, but I was, I was planning to come down for the boat party, but it kept getting postponed.
- [125:37]
Patrick Bet-David
Well, my man Scotty, appreciate you for coming out this fantastic.
- [125:41]
Scottie Pippen
Pleasure having me.
- [125:41]
Patrick Bet-David
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