Joey Merlino: Mafia Boss of the Philadelphia Crime Family? | PBD Podcast #762

Summary

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PBD Podcast #762

Joey Merlino: Mafia Boss of the Philadelphia Crime Family?
Date: March 19, 2026
Host: Patrick Bet-David
Guest: Joey Merlino

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Episode Overview

This episode features an extended, no-limits sit-down with Joey Merlino—long dubbed by media and federal investigators as the “boss” of the Philadelphia crime family. Host Patrick Bet-David presses Joey on rumors, charges, the nature of loyalty and betrayal, South Philly street codes, and Merlino’s current focus on his cheesesteak business. The conversation moves fluidly from crime legends, Mafia codes, prison stories, and the notorious “cheesesteak wars” of Philadelphia, to broader commentary on loyalty, American values, and public perceptions shaped by media. Joey maintains his characteristic mystique, flatly denying mob involvement but providing unfiltered opinions on rats, federal prosecution, and the old-school neighborhood life.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Joey’s Identity: Mob Boss or Cheesesteak Guy?

• Denial of Mob Ties

  • Joey repeatedly denies ever being a part of the mob:
    “I'm a cheesesteak guy.” (00:01, 05:24) “There's no mob.” (00:05, 05:40, 66:22)
  • He attributes rumors and documentaries to media sensationalism and "fake news":
    “That's what the media does. Like Trump says, fake news.” (00:08, 07:39)

• Media Fascination

  • Host outlines the public obsession:
    “Why do they make documentaries and talk about you?” (00:06)

2. Street Code, Loyalty, and Betrayal

• On “Rats” and Cooperators

  • Joey is vehement about his loathing for “rats” (cooperators), equating them with betrayal on the deepest level: “If I know a guy’s a rat and I hang with him, I’m a rat.” (17:29) "All these rats... I never met them or saw them ever in my life. Leonetti, I know Leonetti and Ralph. That's the only two I ever know." (11:08)
  • Describes severe family consequences for cooperating relatives:
    “If you condone a rat...disowned them. My family disowned them.” (17:26)

• Roots of the Code

  • Joey attributes these values to his South Philly upbringing and his parents:
    “My mother taught me when I was a kid. Don't tattletail.” (22:42) “We have respect for others... We would get a beating, from your pops.” (10:22)

• Core Values

  • Five most-valued traits:
    1. No tattletale/snitching
    2. Help everybody
    3. Loyalty
    4. Don't be jealous (“Jealousy’s worse than cancer.” [50:37])
    5. Keeping your word (“Your word—that’s all you got.” [87:34])

3. Rumors, Charges, and Life in the Streets

• Dismissal of Murder Allegations

  • Joey asserts his innocence regarding alleged murders and beatings of RICO charges: “I never killed nobody” (00:31, 16:36, 32:41) “I was acquitted of all of them. What’s that mean? I didn’t do it.” (32:51) “You beat three RICO cases.” “I still don’t know what RICO is.” (39:45, 16:43)

• Federal Prosecution and Racism Claims

  • Joey contends that prosecution is driven by ethnicity: “I guess because I’m Italian. If my name is Joe Blow, I would have never even got locked up.” (14:49)

• Prison Experience

  • “I got 22 years total [in jail].” (78:56)
  • On doing time:
    “Jail saves you, preserves you. I’m 64, minus 22. I’m only 42.” (107:29)
  • Never feared going to prison, almost relishes the routine:
    “Was it just kind of like part of the life? You could go, make the best of it…” (107:21)

4. South Philly Life, Community, and Cheesesteaks

• Neighborhood Support

  • Joey emphasizes community-helping roots: “We help everybody... I’ve been giving turkeys out since the ‘80s.” (25:53)
    • Helped people pay bills, gave jobs to ex-felons.

• Cheesesteak Wars

  • Rivalry with Pat’s described as “political, spiritual, religious” in Philly.
  • Criticizes competitor—"we perfected it":
    “They invented the cheesesteak. I said, you invented it. We perfected it.” (55:53)
  • On business success: “We got the lines, we buried him.” (01:06, 55:56)
  • Joey plans to scale and franchise:
    “To be the next Jersey Mikes… I want to sell it for a billion, buy a yacht, die on a boat.” (108:02)

• Hiring Policy—No Rats or Pedophiles

  • “As long as you’re not a rat and a pedophile…you’re hired.” (31:15)

5. Reflections on Crime, Gambling, and Legal Double-Standards

• Legal v. Illegal Gambling

  • Condemns expansion of legalized gambling, predicts a coming disaster:
    “It’s going to be worse than crack…every kid’s gambling.” (74:04)

• Cooperators’ Deals with Government

  • Believes “system is upside down”—cooperators get out, while “stand-up guys” do the time.

6. Experiences & Interactions with Notable Mobsters

• Reflections on Others

  • Dismisses former boss Ralph Natale and underboss Phil Leonetti as “liars” and “rats.”
  • Affectionate toward classic mob figures like Nicky Scarfo (called a "good man") and respectful of John Gotti Sr.: “Nicky was a good guy.” (67:06) “John Gotti—100%.” (85:40)

• Distance from Mob Lore

  • Claims little to no personal knowledge or connection with infamous figures from other cities: “Never met Sam the Bull, Michael Franzese, Frank Collata…” (12:31, 12:44, 85:49) “Never watched Sopranos…never watched one episode.” (105:34)

7. Society, the Law, and Contemporary America

• Critique of Modern America

  • Advocates harsher punishment for pedophiles, laments loss of street justice and neighborhood cohesion.
  • Bemoans proliferation of “hate crime” statutes protecting pedophiles in prison.
  • Strong pro-Trump, anti-Biden stance; disputes allegations about rigging elections.

• Belief in American Values

  • Proudly claims loyalty and a code of personal honor:
    "I'm not even the boss of my family." (118:25)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Mob Existence:
  “There’s no mob. To me, there’s no mob.” (66:22)

• On beating the feds:
  “If you’re acquitted, I got found not guilty, and that’s it.” (49:52)

• On “rat law” and his hiring practices:
  “They should have rat law… As long as you’re not a rat or a pedophile, you can work.” (31:32)

• On Alleged Murders & Retribution:
  “You killed your friend and you guys don’t retaliate?”
  “Nope.” (45:27-45:30)

• On Loyalty & Betrayal:
  “No friend ever served me and no enemy ever wronged me whom I have not repaid in full.” (44:33, reading Sulla's quote)

• On Gambling’s Danger to Youth:
  “Every kid’s gambling…going to be worse than crack. Mark my words.” (74:04)

• On Doing Time:
  “Jail saves you, preserves you. I’m 64, minus 22. I’m only 42.” (107:29)

• On the American Dream – Next Steps:
  “To be the next Jersey Mikes… I want to sell it for a billion, buy a yacht, die on a boat.” (108:02)

• On the Value of Keeping Silent:
  “The only thing I have is, is the fact that I never talked. 55 years I did time. You want me to go tell the. I said, sonny, if you don’t tell the story, the market’s going to tell your story in a way that’s their version, not the truth. He says, I can’t do nothing about that.” (101:02)

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Important Timestamps & Segments

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |------------|------------------| | 00:00–05:25 | Media perceptions and Joey's denial of mob ties | | 09:38–11:24 | Growing up in South Philly – street smarts and community values | | 16:04–17:46 | Discussing and denying all murder allegations | | 22:42–23:49 | Joey’s code: no tattletail, respect, mind your business | | 25:53–26:37 | Joey’s community giving: turkeys, bills, jobs | | 32:32–33:50 | Repeated acquittals, double jeopardy, the justice system | | 45:11–49:48 | The Philly mob wars, vengeance, and loyalty | | 50:15–52:28 | Five core values—loyalty, no jealousy, word is bond | | 55:53–56:09 | Cheesesteak war summary: “we perfected it” | | 66:22–67:12 | On the mob: “No mob. UFO shows.” | | 74:04–75:39 | Legalized gambling—epidemic predictions | | 78:56–80:11 | 22 years in prison, jail stories, handling betrayal | | 107:29–108:07 | Prison as preservation, future as a sandwich mogul | | 114:11–114:42 | Podcast and new business links | | 118:25–118:28 | “I'm not even the boss of my family.” – closing emphasis on humility or deniability |

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Tone and Language

The tone is streetwise, direct, and often laced with South Philly toughness and humor. Joey mixes deflection, denial, and candid reflections on family, loyalty, and betrayal. He peppers the talk with colorful language and pride in old neighborhood values, often quipping at media, government, or rivals, sometimes with biting sarcasm. Patrick maintains an earnest, respectful, and persistent interviewer style, trying to draw out answers while honoring Joey’s personal code.

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Additional Highlights

• Joey shares backstories on interactions with notorious mob figures, but distances himself from most—preferring to describe them as “good guys,” “tough,” or “never ratted,” rather than criminals.
• Admits to gambling and some crimes (like an armored car robbery—“for gambling”), but never murder.
• Recurring mention of offering jobs to felons, not rats or pedophiles, translating street code into modern hiring.
• Outspoken against current social trends, especially the “softness” of today’s youth and loss of community bonds.
• The legacy and perceptions of figures like Sonny Franzese, Nicky Scarfo, and John Gotti, serving as archetypes of respect for the “old way” over the new informant-driven culture.

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Closing Remark

This deep-dive episode offers both a masterclass in tight-lipped street code and fascinating insight into changing American underworlds, nostalgia for old neighborhood authenticity, and the reinvention of public personas in the social media era. Whether or not you believe Joey’s version, you can’t help but be entertained by his unwavering code and his dream to turn Philly sandwich wars into a billion-dollar business.

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Transcript

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Who was Joey Morlino?

[Joey Merlino]

I'm cheesesteak guy.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You're a cheesesteak?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

The media says you're part of the mob. You've never been part of the mob?

[Joey Merlino]

No. There's no mob.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Why do they make documentaries and talk about you?

[Joey Merlino]

That's what the media does. Like Trump says, fake news.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So rumor has it he was going to be the face. And behind closed doors you were the puppet master kind of making the decisions.

[Joey Merlino]

What's the what? The guy's a nut. He was a salesman.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He was a good bull, Ralph.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, he's an habitual liar. If I know what guys are at and I hang with them, I'm a rat. They all change their lives when they go to jail. And these people are sick.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

But again, Joey, somebody may say you. You took out seven people.

[Joey Merlino]

No, I didn't. I never killed nobody.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You never killed nobody?

[Joey Merlino]

No, never.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You've never killed nobody?

[Joey Merlino]

No. I was never found guilty of nothing.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You beat three RICO cases.

[Joey Merlino]

I still don't know where RICO is. They named it. If they're tan guy, who? The rico.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

They killed your friend and you guys don't retaliate?

[Joey Merlino]

Nope.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How do you become that noble?

[Joey Merlino]

That's just the way I am.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What is it with you? Not liking Pat's cheese steak?

[Joey Merlino]

He's the one that started with us.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What happened?

[Joey Merlino]

We buried him.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Is this a real war? Cuz the people outside of Philly don't know how important this is political.

[Joey Merlino]

We didn't go after none of them, they with us. They invented the cheesesteak.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

That's what I hear.

[Joey Merlino]

No, he did. I said, yeah, you invented it. We perfected it. And we, we heard his business. He used to have lines the block long. We got the lines we buried.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

To those of you that have enjoyed the interviews I've done with John Gotti Jr. Samir Bolgravano, Michael Francis, Frank Collada, you know Phil Leonetti, Any of these names? You're gonna love today's interview. You've been asking for this for a very long time. And it's finally happened. And that's what Joey Merlino, the FBI calls him. The current boss of the Philadelphia crime family. You have to hear how he responds to it when I say that. And we addressed everything. Nothing was off the table. I brought up everything that he was tied to. Right after his good friend Mikey Changs was shot and killed. And he was shot as well. Joey was shot a couple times. He'll explain to you where he was shot. There was stories about seeking vengeance And I think there's seven murders tied to him. And I brought it up. You have to hear response to that. He brought up the rico cases, the two death sentences he had, the 22 years that he was in prison with, what that was like. And part of it is like, I don't fear going to prison. I actually have a good time. So he said, Although I'm 64 years old, I'm 42, I'm young, I'm healthy. The mindset of no matter how many times he was pushed to be asked on certain things, you have to see how he answered those questions. He definitely wanted to talk about rats. He called a lot of people rats. So that part of it, he was not holding back on anything. His opinions on how he felt. Now he's building a cheesesteak business in South Philly that's competing with Pats, and he had a lot of stuff to say. I had no idea there was a massive cheesesteak war. We got wars going on in the Middle east to South Philly. This war is more delicate and important than any of the worlds going on around the world, because they're talking about cheesesteak. So I'll let them explain to you. And by the way, I want to make you an offer you cannot refuse. And here's what it is. 51% of you don't subscribe to this show. You watch it on a weekly basis, but you haven't subscribed to the 51% that hasn't subscribed. Here's the offer. Subscribe to the channel. This allows us to get bigger interviews like this and many others. So if you like what we do here with our show, take a second, pause the video, click on that subscribe button, press the notification, and enjoy this sit down with Joey Merlino.

[Joey Merlino]

I know this. This life for me.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Adam, what's your point? The future looks bright. My handshake is better than anything I ever signed right here. You are a1of1.

[Joey Merlino]

My son's right about. I don't think I've ever said this before. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So, you know, very rarely do I bring a neighbor of mine on the podcast. Right. I mean, to me, you're a neighbor. Right?

[Joey Merlino]

My neighbor.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

We live down the street from each other, down the street to the northeast of the people that know the. The racetracks. You were a winning jockey back in the days. Three years, 41 races, right to the Fed. They claim you. You're still the, you know, boss of the Philadelphia crime family. I mean, that's what they say. You've been one for many, many years. As you know, I've sat with Ralph Natali, whom you and him spend time in prison together. I've talked to Leonetti. I think I even had Michael McGowan on, which, by the way, all three of them, Michael McGowan was the, the Fed who was in the mob wars documentary, which I don't know if you've seen the documentary or not. You don't?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You don't know Michael McGowan?

[Joey Merlino]

No, I never met him.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So FBI thinks that's who you are, you know, to Philly, you have the best cheesesteak, maybe better than Pats.

[Joey Merlino]

We got the best cheese.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

That's what I hear in the city.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

And to YouTube, you got a podcast called the, you know, the Skinny Skinny with Joey Morlino. So to me with you is I've watched every clip I can get my hands on to see what you're going to say, what you're not going to say. I know your history. I've got friends I spoke to from Philly. One of them is, he lived on. Is it 2J2? He calls it 2J2. We'll talk about the, you know, what areas? Jackson and 22nd Street.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. 22nd.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah. So he, he had a lot of good things to say about you growing up. But I want to know this from you. Who was Joey Mourinho? If the average guy wants to know, who's Joey Morleno? What would you say?

[Joey Merlino]

I'm a cheesesteak guy.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You're a cheesesteak?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, I'm for the people. I'm a no mob, not a listen that sells movies. That's, that's what they, you know, it's, that's what the media does. The media does it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So the media says you're part of the mob. You've never been part of the mob.

[Joey Merlino]

No, I'm not. No.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

No. So, so why did they make documentaries and talk about you? Why, why do they, you know, write books about you? Why do they, you know, in all these shows, talk about, you know, the boss, you know. Previously with Natalia. Previously with all these. Why do they talk about your own all the time?

[Joey Merlino]

Natalie's the biggest liar ever. That's why I got mad at you, because you had him on the show.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I had him on the show. He got very mad at me.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

He's habitual. Liar. He was habitual drug dealer. I, I, the only way he'd get out of jail is because of me. That's it. He would have died in jail. He got his whole family involved with drugs. He got a son in law involved with drugs. The guy who married his daughter would, I want my son in law to deal drugs. I want my son to be a doctor or whatever, whatever he does. He got his whole family involved with drugs. His son, his son in law, and they were never getting out of jail. He was going to die.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah, he, he, he. When he and I sat down, he was very critical of Leonetti and very critical of you in a big way. But he said you guys were in prison together when he became the boss. I'm not mistaken. Boss.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. I was in jail with him. Yeah. Yeah. These are not. The guys are not.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What was he like? What's. I mean, I know he died a couple years ago, but what was he like?

[Joey Merlino]

He was a good toy. He was a, he was a salesman. He was a good ralph. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Was he a tough guy? Was he a capable guy? Was he a known guy?

[Joey Merlino]

I met him in jail.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

First time you met him was in jail?

[Joey Merlino]

In jail, yeah. I should have went to another jail. I would have never met him.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So you prefer never meeting him?

[Joey Merlino]

No. Yeah. I wish I'd never met him.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So rumor has it the, the, the plans were, you know, he was going to be the, you know, the face, and behind closed doors, you were the puppet master kind of making the decisions. And then afterwards, when you got out, I think a couple years later, you ended up becoming a boss. Is that a rumor? Is that a fact?

[Joey Merlino]

It's a rumor.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

It's a rumor.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How do you feel about all these rumors?

[Joey Merlino]

How do you manage all of me? I don't care. Like Trump says, fake news. Yeah. It sells papers. Listen, I, me and my family have been in news since I was a kid. It don't bother me at all. I don't, you know, they say, whatever.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How do you handle it? How do you handle when they say this stuff?

[Joey Merlino]

I don't, I don't even pay attention to it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

But, Joey, you got to realize, even from the outside, like, I, I know what your answers are going to be because I've been watching you for. Of course, you know, we, the story is, one time we lived six houses down from each other, and I would walk the kids and I would see you, and one time I'm driving the car and I think, you know, I pull up, I'm like, excuse me. Yeah. Who's this? I said, is this, Are you Skinny Joey? I'm Joey to you. And you pull up and I said, I know you, and you're like, aren't you the guy that interviewed. That's how our first interaction, first conversation,

[Joey Merlino]

you had the kids in the truck.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I had the kids in the truck. Yes, I remember that. I'm like, wait a minute. You know, that's.

[Joey Merlino]

I was saying to myself, who the fuck's this guy? I just wave, you know, I waved all the neighbors.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

Goes to that area, everybody waves.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

That's right.

[Joey Merlino]

Walk the dogs.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

It's a great area.

[Joey Merlino]

No, it's beautiful.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

It's a great. I love that area. We almost bought a couple places there. But for a guy. I've sat with most of the guys that are living guys, even Leonetti. The only one he did was with me. And Leonetti was the underboss of working with Scarfall. Everything ties you that you were part of that life. But the only guy that. And I'm trying to figure out how you're doing this. You claim you're not. The feds say they know you were and are. That's what the feds say. The streets say, you know, he was maybe got out in 24, you know, possibly the only guy that was a boss that still walks the streets. You'll walk anywhere. You'll go to New York. What's the saying that you say you can go anywhere, you can go to New York, go to Philly, and nothing's going to happen to you. But you grew up in this life. Now, whether you claim you were in it or not, that's. You know, you can. That's a speculation, but you grew up in this life, and you excelled in this life. How did you get into the life?

[Joey Merlino]

I was never in the life. It's just the way it just grown up in South Philly. It's just the way we lived. You know what I mean? We have street smarts. You know, you get. You're in the streets. You could be the greatest lawyer in the world, the smartest guy in the world. If you don't have street smarts, you ain't gonna make it nowhere. I don't care what you're. You just got to be street smart. Like, you know, you just can't. Like, people are. I know lawyers that are the smartest, like, intelligent lawyers, but in court, that you don't have the street smarts to get, you know, present to a jury, you're done. Bobby Simone was one of the best lawyers in Philly. He had street smarts. You got to have street smarts.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How do you gain it?

[Joey Merlino]

How do you just learn it, you know, growing up?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Is it. Learned or is it DNA? Is it something that.

[Joey Merlino]

I mean, a lot of people in South Philly have it. You know, it's just growing up. Respect, like my. My father. I mean, if I came to your house when I was a kid, if I didn't shake your hand and look at, you know, look at you and say hello. We have respect for others. We were big kids, but we have respect for others. I would get a beating. I would get a beating from your pops. Yeah. We gotta respect people.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Lionel was very complimentary of your dad.

[Joey Merlino]

Leonardi's a nut.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Why is that?

[Joey Merlino]

He's in that. He robbed his uncle. He took all his money. He never went to jail ever in his life. You know, the first time he went to jail, he made up stories to get out of jail. He robbed his uncle, he robbed all his money, robbed his whole family. And I don't know where the. Wherever the he's living.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Did you guys spend a lot of time together or.

[Joey Merlino]

No? No. Yeah, I know him. Yeah. All these rats. The only one I knew was really him. Like, see all these guys that go on, on these shows, all of them, Sakali, bro. I never met them or sold them ever in my life. Leonetti, I know Leonardi and Ralph. That's the only two I ever know.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How much time did you spend with Leonetti?

[Joey Merlino]

I lived down there. I lived down ashore. Like, yeah, I spent. I spent time daily, weekly.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Like you saw, like.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, I got mad. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What was it like? Did he have. Did he carry weight? Did he. Was he respectful?

[Joey Merlino]

Was he feared? He was quiet. It really was. He used to love when they called him Crazy Phil. His mother, they used to love it when they wrote a paper. Crazy Phil. They loved it. Now he's my uncle told me to do it. Phil, it's. It's jail. Nobody wants to go to jail. That's the bottom line. They all change their lives when they go to jail. Just picture if none of them ever got locked up. They would never been here. They wouldn't been sitting here. They still be and he's still being

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Atlantic City to why are you doing it?

[Joey Merlino]

Franches still being. I'm the voice for the people in jail that. That got no voice. These people buried people, lied about them, put them in jail, and then they go on in, whatever, YouTube, Internet, make money off them. Sam the Bull selling shirts that he killed 19 people. He's proud of it. He killed a 16 year old kid. Nobody ever. Nobody talks about that. These people are sick.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Have you and Sammy ever done anything together?

[Joey Merlino]

No, I never I know if he walked. Well, I know he looks like. No, I never seen him in my life.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Never seen him in your life, ever.

[Joey Merlino]

Never was in jail with none of them.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Have you guys ever interacted? Phone call, anything?

[Joey Merlino]

No. No.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How about Michael?

[Joey Merlino]

No, I never seen him in my life. He's another one. He found God as soon as he got locked up, when he was robbing all that money and he gave it to God.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Did. Has that ever happened with you? Did you ever have a moment where you found God or.

[Joey Merlino]

No, no. I mean, I'm. I'm catholic. I was an altar boy.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You've always had it.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, but these guys, as soon as they get locked up. Sammy just got baptized as he's done. They put him in a pool.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What do you think about that?

[Joey Merlino]

He should have got electrocuted the. Instead of a. I mean, look. Look what he's doing now. And that's another thing. All these guys, there's. There's not a way you could do it. But all these guys that. All of them, they all commit crimes. Sammy, he got five years. He killed 19 people. He didn't even do five years. He did a year because that. He did a year. Got out. He flooded Arizona with drugs. All college kids got another break. Now he just molested his secretary. Pedophile. What is it?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Who's this?

[Joey Merlino]

Sammy?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What about his assistant?

[Joey Merlino]

He molested her. You didn't. You didn't read it?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

No.

[Joey Merlino]

He's got a. It's a civil case.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Is she under 18?

[Joey Merlino]

I don't know. I'll be honest.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Not unless it has to be under 18. If it's like a use of sexually

[Joey Merlino]

assaulting employee, I get. Yeah, I guess. That assaulted employee, right? He made her stay in a hotel with him. He stuck a tongue down her throat. He pulled a gun out. You didn't read it? I could have sent it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah. So woman who worked with Salvatore.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, she worked for him. I don't know her name. Somebody sent me anything?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah, I don't know these stories.

[Joey Merlino]

And I got the text. I mean, he's texted or something. The guys are not. I mean, they just keep on getting. But they got a license. They could do it. You realize every day on the Internet for the last two years, me and Snuff, especially Snuff, they bother him. Poor kid. He's. He's an innocent kid. We get threatened every day. They're going to come. They're going to blow the cheesesteak place up. They're going to beat all our employees up. If I said that on the Internet I get locked up immediately.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What. What's the difference?

[Joey Merlino]

They have a license. The government loves them.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

And the government doesn't love you?

[Joey Merlino]

No, they hate me.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Why is that?

[Joey Merlino]

I guess because I'm Italian. I don't know.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You think you're Italian?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, if my name is Joe Blow. I wouldn't. I would have never even got locked up. This many times I went to jail for making a bet. Just think of that. Not bookmaking. Yeah. Not gambling. Running illegal, placing a bed over the phone. I got two years in jail. They would have to lock the whole world up. Everybody bets. I got two years. The other guy. The other guy I seen the other day in a paper, he was with ISIS. He's supposed to get 20 years. They gave him 11 years. He got out in six years and he went and shot it. Shot the people. The system's up. Yeah. If that was me, I would have got the electric chair.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah. But I think. I think what. When I see a different case study with yours. I mean, respectfully, when you. When you talk to the guys in the streets and. And you get different sides of the story, you know, one of them is there's seven. I think there is alleged. Of course, this is alleged. Seven hits that you have. Alleged. Seven people you took out.

[Joey Merlino]

That.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

That's what the street talks about.

[Joey Merlino]

I was acquitted of every one of them.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Right, I understand that. But there's seven of them that they allege that you did that. Because they said, you know, one thing about Joey, that you get respect from your peers is he was not only tough, he was capable. Some are capable, but not tough. Some are tough but not capable. Joey was both. Meaning you didn't. If somebody. If you wanted to get somebody, you know, job done, you went and did it yourself. You're not. Okay, Bobby, you go do it. Hey, Jack, you go do it. You went and got. And did it yourself.

[Joey Merlino]

This is the rumors, right? I never killed nobody.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You never killed nobody?

[Joey Merlino]

No, never.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You've never killed nobody.

[Joey Merlino]

Okay.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You. You. You beat three RICO cases, right?

[Joey Merlino]

If I'm not mistaken, maybe four.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Three or four.

[Joey Merlino]

I still don't know where RICO is.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yes. I don't know what.

[Joey Merlino]

I had three cases. They named me at that time, guy after the talking rico.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

RICO who?

[Joey Merlino]

The rico.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He keeps getting beaten up, apparently. If it's so three or four times the seven alleged murders that you're saying you got acquitted on. So to me, when I met with Sonny Francis, and I don't know what thoughts you have about Sunny. When I met With Sonny, three or four.

[Joey Merlino]

Sonny or Michael?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Not Michael.

[Joey Merlino]

Sonny.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Sonny. The father. Sonny did. I don't know what his time is. I think 52, 53 years.

[Joey Merlino]

60 years. 50 years. 60 years. A lot of time.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He did a lot of time. What do you think about Sonny?

[Joey Merlino]

Listen, the guy was a great guy. He did his time, kept his mouth shut. But when his son put people in jail. If you condone a rat, if I know the way I live, the way I was brought up, if I know a guy's a rat and I hang with him, I'm a rat. That simple as that? I got an uncle at rat it. I never told him again, ever. Disowned them. My family disowned them.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Is this the uncle that just recently died?

[Joey Merlino]

Lawrence? No, he died. He died when I was in jail. What the. On the. When I got pinched, where was I to say? County jail. I. I had a murder. I had a murder. Murder case in RICO in Philly. One of the murders was Sedano. I beat it. The next day, they indicted me for the same murder in Newark Federal court. I beat it twice. 24 people found me not guilty. Two jurors. And I was in the county jail, and I called my cousin Ken, which is his daughter, and she said to me, I think it was my. My mother called me, said, you got to call Kim.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

It's.

[Joey Merlino]

It's important. So I called her. What happened? She said, my father died. I said, good. Your father's not good. And they didn't talk much. If they told me. They never told them. I don't think they did. I really don't. And she said, what should we do? I said, what day's trash day? She said, Thursday. I said, throw them in the trash stop. And that was. And then they never talked. Then they stopped talking to me. They stopped talking. So we never. I never talked to Mom. I never. You know what I mean? If you. If you. If you know somebody hurt people and lied on people and you told them, you're just as bad as them. That's the way I was brought up. And who.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Who taught that to you?

[Joey Merlino]

That's just the way I learned about living till I died. That South Philly code, it should be every code. I mean, it's just the way we were brought up.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So to you. When you. When you think about Sonny, you think died, that just because he associated with his son.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. He's not supposed to talk to him. I mean, he made. Unless he got senile.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So you're saying even if he goes and meets with his son. You're breaking the code because you're meeting with somebody that spoke to the feds.

[Joey Merlino]

I'm, I don't. I'm talking about no code. It's just the way I live. I mean, that's a code, though. No, my uncle, I would never. Him. Good. I'm glad he's dead. And he never testified against nobody.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Well, why, why did you do that to your. Why do you have that feeling towards your uncle? Animosity?

[Joey Merlino]

He's no good.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What did he do that caused you to feel that way?

[Joey Merlino]

What did he do? He just not supposed to do what he did. Made up lies. He tried to get out of jail and he lied. And he was so bad, they never used him.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Did he ever cooperate or.

[Joey Merlino]

No. Yeah, he, he, yeah, he cooperated. He sat down, you know, he told him everything stories, but they never used them because he was fucking lying. They must have knew he was lying and that was it. They never used them. So he cooperated.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So in your eyes, he cooperated. Is that, is that your set? The uncle?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Interesting. Okay, so going back to Sonny, what you said, but Sonny was a good guy. So the only issue you have with Sonny is the, with his son?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know him. I'm just saying, like I, he made his son come and visit him in jail, pick him up from jail after he knows you put, you, you put

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

people in jail and you talking about Michael.

[Joey Merlino]

Michael, yeah. And then he got another son to do. Michael ain't even his son.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Right. That's a, that's a, A, you know, story that's been discussed many times that Michael doesn't want to talk about. But. Yeah, and, and his other son, he had some issues that, things that took place with him, but with Sunny. To me, when it comes down to Sunny, you know, Sonny was one of those guys that one time I went to New York, we're with him. He was staying at this, I don't know if you call it in old folks homes or hospital. That's where we visited three times. I took him out one time to lunch. His lawyers are there and it's eight or nine of us and we're going out there, we're eating at the nice spot and I'm asking him all these questions and he was one of the guys that was true to omerta, like he was not going to say nothing. So your challenge with Sonny is the fact that he just associated with his son.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, maybe he went xeno at the end. I don't know, he was old. I don't know. I mean, I don't know him. I don't know him. If. I'm saying if it was me, I would never. I would never thought.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Even if it was your son?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. And I didn't even. Well, yeah, even if it was my son. But he's not even his son. But.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So you're saying even if you. One of your kids turned and went and cooperated with the feds, you would never look at them there? Do you have a son?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. No son. Yeah. Two girls? Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Okay, so if one of your girls did, you would never talk to her.

[Joey Merlino]

Girls would ever be in that situation.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Why do you say that?

[Joey Merlino]

There would never be in a situation where they have to make up stories and lie. They're both successful. One's an attorney and one's an advertisement. Wow. So. And you know, I've never put my kids in that situation.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You would never put them in a situation like that. Huh. Interesting to me when I. When I hear. So who, who else? When this concept of you're saying this is how we do things. If somebody, you know, snitches or does something, we don't associate with them anymore. Where does this code come from, though?

[Joey Merlino]

It's just the way I am, the way I was brought up.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What. What did your pops teach you? Because your dad was.

[Joey Merlino]

Listen, my mother taught me when I was a kid. Don't tattletail. Did you like tattletales when you're a kid? No, nobody likes them. Tattletails. I went to school. Like, if we got in trouble in school, you never tell them whatever. The nuns used to beat us with iron rulers. Who broke the window? Who threw this? Who did that? We don't know. We don't know. Just the way we're brought up. Nobody likes tattletale.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah, but you, you know, the, the T. Okay, so that's one. What else. What else was certain rules.

[Joey Merlino]

That's just the way we grew up. Never, you know, mind your business

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

if

[Joey Merlino]

it don't affect you. Just mind your business. How.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How tough was people growing up in South Philly?

[Joey Merlino]

I was tough. Philly's tough neighborhood. South Philly's tough. But it was a good neighborhood, close knit. Everybody looked out for each other. You could leave your door open.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So what made it tough?

[Joey Merlino]

Just the neighborhood, you know, blue collar, everybody worked and it was just. We all grew up. We hung in school yards, you know, like old kids. We. I'm still friends with the kids I went to the Kidding garden with, and we all grew up together. And we just. That's just the way we were.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Joey, how many people of friends of yours that you had, how many were true to this code? No tattletail, no. No snitching, no talking to feds. How many guys were the core, guys that you could trust with anything?

[Joey Merlino]

My whole neighborhood. Everybody was like that.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

When you say whole neighborhood, you mean you're talking about hundreds of people?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, like everybody that we hung out with every. Just the way it was today. It's all fucked up.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What happened?

[Joey Merlino]

Well, no, I'm saying, like, we used to hang in the schoolyard. We played basketball, we played baseball. We played every sport you could think of. Hockey. You don't even see a kid in the schoolyard no more. They play video games. They're all up. They can't even talk. So, you know, it's just that I'm glad I was born. When I was born, kids that are all up.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

At what point did kids know or you know that there was something different about your toughness or did you even think that?

[Joey Merlino]

No, I didn't think of it. This is the way we were. So we were brought up.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

People knew. You were different though, Joey. I mean, you know, for a guy that, you know, don't take this the wrong way. I know. Like, Michael was a big guy, right? Is it Chuck? Leani.

[Joey Merlino]

Oh, my. Chang. Michael Chang? Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Michael Chang. Yeah. He was a big guy. He was not a small guy.

[Joey Merlino]

No, Michael was big.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Michael's a feared by.

[Joey Merlino]

And it was tough with his hands.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah, it was tough with his fans. But he's a family guy. He was respected and loved and feared, which is a very weird combination to have loved, respected and feared. That doesn't. It's not common to have somebody like that. And when. When they took out Michael, this was apparently your best friend. This was my guy. Yeah, your friend, best friend. When they took him out, you. You. The. The. The. Michael was big and intimidating. But based on what people tell me when I see you, you know, you're a nice guy. I'm talking to you right now, even off camera. And every time I've seen you. We have a good conversation together. But there is an element of fear towards a guy like you. Why did they fear you, respect you and love you? Why did the people in South Philly have that feeling towards you? The average person can say fair with Michael, but why towards you?

[Joey Merlino]

Very nice to everybody. We help everybody. People in Philly love me self. We help everybody. We go in a restaurant, we tip everybody, we take Care of people. We give turkeys up. I've been giving turkeys out since the 80s. You know, he saw you doing it. Now you want to be on the Internet. No, I've been doing it before. There was no Internet. There was no cell phones back then. Beepers weren't even out yet.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Why'd you do that?

[Joey Merlino]

Just. We always did. My father did it. Where the underdogs. To help people.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

She saw your father do it and you did it? Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

I mean, it's a good feeling to help. Help people. A lot of people don't have nothing. I mean, electric bills. We paid ladies getting their electric shut off in the winter like we did every year. We still do it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

There's a. I want to get his first name right. I know his last name. Is it Sonny Mazone? Is it. Is it Sonny or is it

[Joey Merlino]

Stevie?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Steven Mazone? Stephen. He had this. This shop by this arcade store, and he would do. He would do embroidery for jackets.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Okay. I don't know if you remember this or not. It says 88, 87, 88, 89. And one day, one of my friends who was from 2J2, which is 22nd and Jackson, and he goes up to Stevie and says, hey, I want to get this jacket with the embroidery, you know, Philly, for my girlfriend. He said, okay, great. So they do it. And he's about to pay him whatever the embroidery is going to be. Stevie says, what did you get for your mother? And this fellow says, yeah, I got her nothing. I don't have a lot of money this year. I can't do anything about that. But next year I'm going to get her something. He says, no, I don't want you to do that. I want you to not pay for this embroidery. Take the jacket, but go get your mother a gift.

[Joey Merlino]

That's how.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

These are the types of stories that comes back.

[Joey Merlino]

Neat is a classy guy. That's. We all. We're all like that. That's what we do. I mean, we help everybody in the neighborhood. We did it our whole lives. Everybody likes us. They respect us. They like us.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How'd you guys make money?

[Joey Merlino]

I worked. We worked. I worked my whole life.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What'd you do?

[Joey Merlino]

I was a jockey, gambler. I did it all.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Jockey, gambler. As a jockey, were you making real money? Like, was there real money in the jockey?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, I made money when I was a kid, though. I was 18, 41.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Races. How did you get into that business?

[Joey Merlino]

I started out. I'll tell you how I got into it. Salvi Tester took me. They used to have horses in Jersey. There ain't no horse in South Philly. You see a horse. And we went down to Cabana Downs, and we used to go riding.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

And he owned. He had a horse. And I. I used to. You know, he said, well, you ride good. And then we used to rent them. You go down, like, $5 for two hours. And we would go. You know, all our friends and Philip Narducci had a horse, and we used to go down and ride. And then I. I loved it. And I was little, and then I. I got a job down Atlantic City Racetrack as a hot walker and, you know, a groom, exercise boy, and jockey. That's how it started.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Passion. Loved it. Like, till today.

[Joey Merlino]

Love it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I've seen you at the racetrack.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, I could get. Yeah. I said, yeah. What was it? The.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

It's the best one in Florida. It's.

[Joey Merlino]

It's the Florida Derby.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Florida Derby.

[Joey Merlino]

Oh, my. I think it's coming up in two weeks. Is it really end.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Oh, can. Can you text Mato, tell him I got to go to that. Rob, let me tell you, it is such a spectacle. We go every year.

[Joey Merlino]

Every year, it's a.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You go to the Derby line or.

[Joey Merlino]

No, no, I. I never been to Kentucky Derby. Far. Derby.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Okay. The Derby, you know, I let it go.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I've been going every year for many years. It's. It's a great experience, but. So you got into races like that, and you're doing this as a kid, you're making good money, and then you get. You openly talk about gambling on the podcast. You guys talk about gambling all the time. I know Italy was in the World Series history against Venezuela. We're talking about it. That was a close, close game. But going back to it, the. The culture of how you guys were for the people and the people. Actually, if you talk to the people in the streets, it's very rare I find anybody that says anything bad about what you guys did to the city, to South Philly.

[Joey Merlino]

No, I mean, we help everybody.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

Except when we pay tuitions, we. We don't tell them. We don't go. Announcement. Oh, we paid. So. And so we. We help. We help everybody and. And whoever we can help. Like I said with the cheesesteak place when we open.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

If anybody, you know, people get out of jail, like, it's almost impossible to get a job. You're a felon.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So the Fed may say that's a business model when the people. But do the business and make the money. But help the little guys, right? It's almost like the movie in Gladiator. When the, the gladiator says, I want to have freedom one day, like you. He says, when the crowd win your freedom. Was that the purpose? To win the crowd? When the people.

[Joey Merlino]

No, no, we just did it. We didn't do it for no views and likes. We did it before all this Internet. That's just the way we were brought up. My father paid for people's wakes. You know, somebody in the family dies, they got no money to bury them. We didn't broadcast it, just getting the money pay for it. That's just the way we are. And I'll never change. Like, I was getting back with the cheesesteak place. I told him, I'll hire anybody, give you a chance, you know, as long as you're not a rat and a pedophile. Other than that, you a child molester, you come work first.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Those two for you. Yeah, I can see that. Job interview. So that's it.

[Joey Merlino]

Asking a question, not a rat.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Are you a rat or a pedophile? No, Joey. Okay, you're hired.

[Joey Merlino]

You're on. You're hired.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You literally asked that. You say that to people?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. If not, I don't want you.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I don't know if Fortune 500 companies use that. Maybe they should.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, they should.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Maybe they should.

[Joey Merlino]

Who wants pedophiles? Listen, they should. Do you see how they got Megan's Law? You know, if you're you with kids, you gotta let the neighbors know. They should do that with these like, like these rats. Like, they should have rat law. Would you like to have Sammy the Bulls, your neighbor? Good truth. If you didn't know, like, he's on, he's on another name. Because he had a different name. They all get different names. If he was Tony Monero, my neighbor. You got, you got four sons next door. You got four kids. You want this nut living next door to you, 19 people?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah, yeah. To me. I get along with everybody.

[Joey Merlino]

No, I know. I mean, you're in the. I'm just saying, a regular person.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah, I, I, the regular person would say no.

[Joey Merlino]

Would you want this living next door to you?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

But again, Joey, somebody may say you, you took out seven people.

[Joey Merlino]

No, I didn't. I'm not.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I was allegedly, you know, the, the numbers. Like, you know, there's. And by, by the way, I mean, you, you, you know, when we do the interview, you're going to say whatever. You're going to say you're Joey Merlino. But, you know, Reputation follows. Like if reputation follows somebody. And if the average person doesn't have a reputation of killing seven people, that doesn't come accidentally. You know what I'm saying?

[Joey Merlino]

I was charged. I don't know how, with how many. Yeah, I got acquitted of everyone. Found not guilty. I got found not guilty by. I got charged with the same murder twice. It never happened. Yeah. Ever.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

It was federal court. Federal court, Philly. I beat it. They charged me the next day in Newark. I went to trial again and beat it. I was never found guilty of nothing. No murders? None. I was acquitted of all of them. What's that mean? I didn't do it. We didn't do it, my friends. We didn't do it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah, but. But when. When. When. I think. How. How close was. Was. Was Michael like a brother to you?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. Michael. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Okay, so is it true that the war that happened, mob wars that happened in the 80s, whatever the year was, could have been 80s, 90s when it happened. His brother Joey, who went inside it with Stanfa, who was the boss that they sent from Sicily, he came to try to bring the business back to the old ways of just making money, and that's all they were doing. And Joey, the brother killed Michael. Is that a. Is that a true story in your.

[Joey Merlino]

I have no idea.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You have no idea?

[Joey Merlino]

No idea.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Okay.

[Joey Merlino]

I know me and Michael walking down the street, a drive by. I got shot. And he got. He got shot one time and died.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You got shot four times as a shoot?

[Joey Merlino]

No, twice in the ass.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He shot you twice in the ac. That's a tough way to kill somebody.

[Joey Merlino]

He. He should have never got hit.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Oh, he got hit because he raised his arm.

[Joey Merlino]

He put his arm.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Oh, got it.

[Joey Merlino]

If his arm is down, I guess, you know, he's big.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He would have made it.

[Joey Merlino]

It went under. Here, you're on the right. And it only got shot one time.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

But you don't know who killed him?

[Joey Merlino]

No.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

No idea.

[Joey Merlino]

No idea.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Do you never want her to seek vengeance and find out who did?

[Joey Merlino]

No. No, not at all, Joey. What are you laughing about?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You're so funny, Joey.

[Joey Merlino]

That's the truth.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Okay, well, listen, I respect it. I'm trying to see. Because your birthday just happened, right? You just had a birthday a couple days ago. Yeah. Happy birthday.

[Joey Merlino]

Thank you.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

A guy who is feared, loved and respected has no desire to want to seek vengeance on the guy that killed his best friend, his brother. How do you become that noble, that peaceful peace?

[Joey Merlino]

That's it. That's just the way I am.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

No Desire to want to have somebody that took at them. This is a code.

[Joey Merlino]

I don't even. I don't even know who did it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I mean, everything ties back to his brother that killed Michael. Your right hand guy, your best friend.

[Joey Merlino]

Right.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You had no desire. I don't want to go back and take that guy out.

[Joey Merlino]

No. Okay.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So obviously the revenge ends up happening. And I think you're at the funeral of. Of you, of Michael. And at the funeral, cameras on you, zooming in on you, and everyone's trying to size you up to say, you know, Stanford's winning, you know the war, and you know, these young guys that are coming up, who do they think they are? Joey Merlino is now afraid, and he's afraid of Stanford now. And zooming in, zooming in, zooming it even closer on your eyes. And then a report asks you a question. I don't know what the question was, but you told him to F off. Like you really had no desire. I want to talk to anybody. What were you thinking in that moment at the funeral?

[Joey Merlino]

Nothing. Just more than our friend, you know, worried about his family, three kids, no desire for vengeance. No.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So if your father is the father that I think he is, my assumption, if he said, you know, shake someone's hands, you know, be respectful. If you don't, you're going to get a whooping.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

This is the clip. Rob, can you play this? Is this video? Do we have this or no? Can you turn the audio so I can hear it? Go for it.

[Joey Merlino]

Morning's viewing and funeral for Changolini. Marlina was not at all camera shy. He stood in front of the funeral as if we say, I'm still here. They didn't get me. Merlino has also maintained his bravado. Listen to his response when we asked him to comment on the shooting. This morning's viewing and. Yeah, yeah, you were in a week and they got cameras in a week. I mean, come on, show respect for the family.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Was that the case? 247 with you was cameras on your.

[Joey Merlino]

Everywhere. Yeah, cameras everywhere we went.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Why did they want to record you?

[Joey Merlino]

I don't know. I don't. Fucking news, fake news. Look what they do to Trump. Same shit.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So for me, if we, if we go back to, you know, with Pops,

[Joey Merlino]

but you have to go back to. You're saying about these shootings. We were acquit.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I know you were. I know you were. But to me, if the DNA of what your father might. What I'm understanding from the, from the people in South Philly, what The code was if your father, I, I the profile of your father, I would say if anybody does anything to your brother, you better make sure you get him by the end of the day. Would that be a right assumption of something your father would tell you?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, if I'm, I tell my anybody that if I'm with me and you're at a bar and you're getting a fight, I'm helping you.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

They killed your, your best friend. You're not doing anything.

[Joey Merlino]

No, we didn't do that. I don't know who killed him. We don't know who killed him. I don't know.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah. Who, who was, who was not Billy VC because that's the older brother, right? It was a John. John. John V.C. am I saying it correctly?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Who was John V.C. i don't know.

[Joey Merlino]

I know him. How long ago? I seen him three times my life.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You've seen him three times in your life? Is it recent or back in the day?

[Joey Merlino]

No, back in the day.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How was he? Was he a tough guy or.

[Joey Merlino]

It was a junkie.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

It was a junkie.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, that's what he was. Dope. He never hung with us. We never did drugs. He was younger. We didn't know him. I didn't know from the day.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Was Billy more your age or was. It was Billy was.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, maybe my age. A year or two younger.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Did you ever meet Billy or. No.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, I know Billy.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Was Billy an easy going guy? Was nice guy, Not a tough guy, Not a street guy?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. No.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah. So Billy seemed like he wanted to do the right thing.

[Joey Merlino]

Good athlete.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Billy was a good athlete.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. He played basketball. Yeah, he was. Right.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

And then Johnny, in this picture, Johnny's the one on the right.

[Joey Merlino]

Billy's got the tux on.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Billy's got the tux on. Yeah. So Johnny goes out there and I think Johnny allegedly a little bit reckless. He's going out there, he has no problem taking somebody out. I think he got his mother died at 41 when he was 16 years old. And he never met his father.

[Joey Merlino]

They were all chunkies, Right. And they were dope fiends, both of

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

them or he was.

[Joey Merlino]

No, not Billy. He was the mother. The whole family.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Oh, the whole family was.

[Joey Merlino]

Not Billy though. I don't think Billy was.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So Billy was a good kid.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I think Johnny's still around. So Johnny allegedly got arrested 60 plus time before turning 18. So eventually he gets out. When he gets out, they come up to him, they give him $1,000 to take somebody out and he goes out for $10,000. And they burn up the car, which the car was a leased car, if I'm not mistaken. And he burns in the car. FBI comes and says, what are you doing? The license plate is still here. Goes back to the guy that leased the car. They know who it is, they go find him. That's ties to Stanfa. And they're like, no, you're tied to this. And then eventually through him, they realize he's gonna flip and he's gonna go testify against the whole crew, everybody. Johnny was. And then that day, before he was going to do that, they took out his brother Billy. All this stuff adds up as all these stories are kind of adding up. Or no.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, I know. Yeah, okay. I was in Philly.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

I got charged with it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You got charged with it?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, and got acquitted.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

And got acquitted.

[Joey Merlino]

I found not guilty. Of course, Ralph Natalie lied.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What did Ross say? Ralph said you were behind it.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, me and my friends, but we got to quit it. He said that after the murder, we had a meeting at my grandmother's house, 927 Jackson. And you know the, the movie? He hugged me, kissed me. It sounds good, you know, in court, but come to find out he didn't realize. And the U. S. Attorneys in Philly, they believed anything he said. They never investigated it. This was 1995, I think it was, or 49594 that we had a meeting in 927 Jack street my grandma's house. My grandmother sold the house three years prior to Chinese people, Asian people. It was impossible for us to be in that house. So we subpoenaed my, we went, my lawyer went, got the deed to the house, that the house was sold three years prior. And we called the Asian guy, I don't even know what he is. He came on the stand, we had to get a translator. He said that's impossible. They were never in my house. I don't even know them. I never seen them in my life. They could have never been in my house that day. Eli, the jury quit is in five minutes.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What did Natalie say his beef was? You know when you guys were in prison together, he asked you, hey, take care of my family when I'm out.

[Joey Merlino]

We all got the same story. Everyone, they must give him a pamphlet when they flip. When you can understand, say this, then give my fan. I gotta give his family money for it. I don't know him. I lent his son in law my motorcycle when I was in jail. It's a true story. I met him in jail. I, I like motorcycle I had a Harley Davidson, brand new. I get locked up. I only got forget four years. So I kept the bike. You know, when I get out and ride, I love bikes. He said to me, my son in law, Bobby, he loves bikes. That's the bike. No, that wasn't that one before I had that. That one. He said he wants to go to bike week or something. Something with bike. Could you like could he bought a bike for the weekend. I said, yeah, take it. But I ain't driving jail can't drive it in the yard. So I can give the bike that stole it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Stop it.

[Joey Merlino]

Kept the bike and solar and still didn't pay me. Brand new Harley Davis. Nice guy, him and his son in law.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Did you ever meet up, meet him again? Did you ever see him again or.

[Joey Merlino]

No, I never seen him. No.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So when's the last time you saw Ralph? Was it in jail?

[Joey Merlino]

No, in a witness stand.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

In a witness stand. What was that like when you saw him?

[Joey Merlino]

He was the worst witness ever. My lawyer destroyed him. The jury. The jury said if you could pull up the arm.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Embarrassing.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. Said he was the wor. How the could they even bring him on the stand?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

They didn't even believe him.

[Joey Merlino]

They didn't believe one. They said the. What juror said we didn't believe one word he said. Yeah, yeah, but that's the government for you. Yeah, I got them all out of jail. Pete the Crumb, another guy.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How

[Joey Merlino]

route. He was dead. It was his third. Third meth conviction. It's life. Automat life. No pro. You never get out. He testified against me and they got him out. Laid a son, Lowell out. Peter Crumb. He was dead. He admitted that. He said he don't know how many people he killed. They dug up a social club. There was three bodies. He was. He was dead. He was getting. And his son was. Son. I know some was already in jail. Was it for drugs? Got 14 years with the state in Jersey. He testified against me to let a son right out. And they let him out. Nice country, right?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah. I'm trying to think because to me, you know, if going back to father would say if anybody does anything to your brother, you know, you have to. You can't let the market believe that they can touch you or the people on your crew. Right? I mean in. In the street court, even in business,

[Joey Merlino]

there is no crew. We just. We're just friends. I mean it's. You just want to make it like it's this, it's that.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

But even to us, like in business, Joey, if If in business there's a. There's a quote. I'll read it to you. Maybe you'll like this quote. And when I read this quote, it kind of reminds me of maybe the code you followed. No friend ever served me and no enemy ever wronged me whom I've had, I have not repaid in full. Let me read it again. No friend ever served me and no enemy ever wronged me whom I have not repaid in full. Lucius Cornelius Sulla Self written Epitaph. So I see you as one of these guys. I see you as a guy. If he's your friend, he's 100% loyal. I have your back for the rest of your life. But also see, if you're an enemy, you cross me, you have to worry about me for the rest of your life if you don't build that reputation. You know this Joey?

[Joey Merlino]

No. Yeah, I mean, it's. He killed my friend.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So they killed your. Your friend. And you guys don't retaliate?

[Joey Merlino]

Nope. My dad taught me a lot, including

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

how easy it is to forget to cancel things.

[Joey Merlino]

So I downloaded Experian, my bff. Big Financial Friend. Experian could help me cancel my unused subscriptions and lower my bills, saving me hundreds a year.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Get started with the Experian app today.

[Joey Merlino]

Your big financial friends here to help you save smarter. Results will vary. Not all bills or subscriptions eligible. Savings not guaranteed. $631 year average savings with one plus negotiations and one plus cancellations paid.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Membership with connected payment account required. See experian.com for details. Experian.

[Joey Merlino]

And we got charged with it and we got to quit it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

How about Salvi Salvage's good man.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Everyone says that.

[Joey Merlino]

No, Salvi's good guy.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Everyone says that. Everyone says Salvi on one end. He was the guy that would grab the, you know, somebody went to. To the market, he would grab all the groceries and walk across and help you out and.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, we all did. Everybody. Yeah, that was the neighbor. That's just the way we were.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

But Savvy was also known for being very tough and feared.

[Joey Merlino]

Sabbath was tough guy.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Him and Michael both same level of toughness.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. Yeah, they were tough.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Similar profile.

[Joey Merlino]

Well, big, big, big guys go with your hands.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

And Southey was good friends with you as well.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So Salvi and Michael has friendship, same level.

[Joey Merlino]

Salvi. When Salvi died, I was in jail. When he died, it was 80. In the 80s, though, he died. I was young. When he died, I don't died 84, I was in jail.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Did they Call him. Why did they call him the Prince? The Crown Prince. How did that. Nick.

[Joey Merlino]

I think. I think the. I think the. What do you call. Gave it to him. The paper, the newspaper.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Not even. Nobody gave it to him.

[Joey Merlino]

No, nobody ever called him.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Why did he call him that, though?

[Joey Merlino]

We never. Nobody in Philly ever called him up like. Nobody ever called me Skinny Joey ever. You know, I got that name from the. From the cops. I had a cousin, Margot Lawrence's son. He was Joey and I was Joe. Same name, Merlino. He was fat and I was skinny. So they used to. The truth. So when they used to follow us, that's the skinny one, they say. The skinny one that got it. Nobody ever called me Skinny Joey my whole life. And nobody never called Sally. I never heard the Prince. I mean, from the paper, but nobody ever called him that.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I can't. I can't see the mob calling him. Calling anybody crown.

[Joey Merlino]

No, they never. No, I never heard it. I mean, told it was in the paper, I think at the New York Times. Did an article on the Sun. Yeah, but nobody never called it. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

It's funny that you name your podcast. The Skinny by Joey Marlino. I love that name, by the way. So what was your reaction when he was killed?

[Joey Merlino]

I was away. He was a good man. Salvage. Great guy.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Similar profiles with him and Michael. Meaning the same. Feared, respected, and loved.

[Joey Merlino]

Well, they were. Yeah, they were tough. They were a good fighter. You know, I mean, they could fight. They were big. They not use their hands, you know, I mean, they're. They're tough. Did.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Did you go to school with them? Like, did you.

[Joey Merlino]

No. Savi was older than me.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Savi was older than.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, I think so. I was like 6, 7 years old.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Did you respect him? Was he like an older brother?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, he was older. Yeah, he was. You know, when I. When you're. When you're 16 and somebody's 24, it's like massive. It's like, wow. Yeah. Like. Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

But he was cordial, respectful to everybody.

[Joey Merlino]

Gentlemen. Good man.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

And so who would test them? Like, when you build a reputation of tough guy, how does that happen? It's just guys testament. And people find that he can knock him out, and then, boom, a reputation is built.

[Joey Merlino]

You know, it was different when you're younger, you're in a bar, people drinking, in a fight, crack the guy or whatever, you know, that's how it was.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Nothing like, he was not like a guy. That's Golden Gloves. That's trauma.

[Joey Merlino]

But they.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

You know, he. They went in Jim like, you know. Yeah, he. He was good. Good with his hands. Yeah. Him, Michael, they were good with their hands. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I'm just wondering, you know, the, the, the. The idea of if somebody crosses, you have to make sure the other side doesn't think they can do that again and again and again to you. Because if the market believed. And by the way, you know, again the stories, you're going to say, allegedly Stanfa, who was in OG Sicilian guy went against you and you beat him, you know, and, and you know, that. That was like the biggest underdog. Nobody ever thought that would happen. Were the guys who are from Sicily. The, the OG OG guys came in trying to put the fear of death in you, and you didn't flinch.

[Joey Merlino]

You're just dying to get me to talk about this stuff.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

No, I'm just telling. I'm just telling.

[Joey Merlino]

I had nothing to do with none of that. Whether you believe me or not, I'm telling you, nothing to do with it. Yeah, whatever we recharged with in court, none of it. I got. Yeah, we got charged with a lot of it. We got acquitted of everything. Me and my friends. This is America. If you're acquitted, I got found not guilty, and that's it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What, what if, if I was to ask you, what five values do you value the most? Like if I'm one of your brothers, I'm one of your friends. 30 years we've been together. What's the most likelihood that these 3, 4, 5 qualities we all have. I know one of them is no tattletale. No snitching. What else would you say?

[Joey Merlino]

Help everybody. Loyal. Don't be jealous.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Don't be jealous.

[Joey Merlino]

Jealousy's worse than cancer.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Really. Tell me about. Don't be jealous.

[Joey Merlino]

Don't be jealous. Nobody. If you. You got a hundred billion, God bless you, I would make 200 billion. A lot of people are jealous.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So in that, in that life, what does jealousy do?

[Joey Merlino]

And any life has nothing to do with that life. Every day, people jealous. How many people are jealous of you? Believe me. Oh, and they'll shake your hand. I wish you the best. God bless you. As soon as you walk away, they hope you die. Your building turns down, your car blows up.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How do you find it? How do you. How do you know where they're at? How do you figure out just who they are?

[Joey Merlino]

It's hard to figure out. You know what I mean? But it's jealousy bad.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You've been a lot of meetings. You've sat down with a lot of different people. You grew up in South Philly. So you have to size people up fairly quickly. How do you size them up?

[Joey Merlino]

Just. You feel it. I mean. I mean, believe me, I was wrong a lot, too. I was wrong a lot, you know, but jealousy, bad. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You know Robert Greene, I don't know if you know who he is. He wrote the book called 40 Laws of Power.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You ever heard of him?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, I heard the book.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah. So he, He's a friend and he said one time, if you really want to know how your friends feel or somebody feels in front of them, share a setback or loss. And just watch their body language. If you watch them closely, you'll see a smile that they're kind of happy that you had a setback. And he says, share with them a victory. And if you watch them closely, if their face cringes a little bit, you can tell they're not happy. You want?

[Joey Merlino]

No, it's true. It's true. People are sick. I don't know what the they're jealous of me for. I don't know.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Was there anybody ever you got jealous of or.

[Joey Merlino]

No, no, it's not even everybody.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Well, that's not even a thought you have.

[Joey Merlino]

No, I don't. Jealous.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Is that from mom and dad or is that just.

[Joey Merlino]

Just the way I brought up? I wish everybody does good, makes money, successful health. I don't, you know, I don't hate on nobody. They all hate on us, though. They hate on me. They just. They just hate. People are sick. You see all these guys on YouTube and talk, talk of it. You watch it. I don't know them. I never seen them in my life. And the media is, you know, opened the cheesesteak place. We were starting the renovations. It didn't even start yet. It was an old, old place. The window was already broke. Somebody threw a bottle in it. They put on the news, they fire bombed the place. They're trying to kill me. It's nuts. But, but the media loves it. My name is Joey Merlino. Any questions you have on my neck, you want to ask me. I'm an expert in sports, gambling, restaurants. We got the best cheese steaks in Philly. Anything you want to know about Philly, South Philly, Atlantic City, reach out and I got you.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What is it with you not liking Pat's cheesesteak?

[Joey Merlino]

I mean, no, he started with us.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He said. He said something about you guys.

[Joey Merlino]

I know him my whole life.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What happened?

[Joey Merlino]

His father. Yeah, and my father went to school together. I went to school with him.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So what's the story? There Because I heard it used to be the best cheesesteak.

[Joey Merlino]

They invented the cheesesteak.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

That's what I hear.

[Joey Merlino]

No, he did. They invented. They've been around here.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Are they still that good, or.

[Joey Merlino]

No, now he's changing. No, here's what happened. I'm gonna clarify this, because everybody saw you. We're not picking on him. He watched the video, I guess, of that other idiot, Barlow. Is it Gene Barlow? Yeah, He's. Barrello said in a video that snuffs the junkie. Which snuff was. Snuff had addiction problem 10 years ago. He's clean. 10 years. Snuff's a good kid. I know my. I grew up with his father. I sent him to rehab down here.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He's very good at what he does.

[Joey Merlino]

I got him. Yeah, I got him straight. He. He don't drink. He's. 10 years. He's clean. He did a video and said that Snuff lives in his mother's basement. Barrella did. Which is a lie. Snuff's got a beautiful house, beautiful wife, great family. So this idiot, Frankie Oliveri from Pats, he makes a video. He started it. He makes a video, and he says, the reason we chop our meat. See, when you go to Pating, you just put the meat on four or five pieces. Then we. We don't. We chop it. He said, we have to chop our meat because our. Our customers have no teeth. He said, watch the video. I got it on my phone.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He says, we don't chop our meat because our customers don't have teeth.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What does that mean? That means it's older customers.

[Joey Merlino]

He said, I don't know what the. He meant. So he. He. He made a video, and he said, snuff lives in his mother's basement. Yeah. He was paying Snuff, huh? So we came back at him because he said he invented the cheesesteak, which he did. He did. He invented. His family did. Yeah. Yeah. His grandfather. Yeah. So he did. I said, yeah, you invented it. We perfected it. I said, you know, Ford invented the car, but Rolls Royce is the best car. Not a Ford got it. And we. We got the best bread. We took it to the next level, and we hurt his business. We buried him.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

That bad?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, bad. Instead of lines. The block loan. We got the lines.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Wow. And. And that's only in Philly. Where is it at? Where's your. Where's your.

[Joey Merlino]

Where their stadiums? We're on Broad street right near the stadiums.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Okay.

[Joey Merlino]

He's on the Italian market. Him and Gino's are from him and Pats is here. Gino's where that wall is.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Got it. What does Gino do? He's also in Chief Steak. Yeah, he's also.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, he's a nice kid. I know Gino, you know, I mean, the kid, Joey, he's a good kid. We don't go away for none of them. They. They with us.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

So it's jealous. It's jealousy. We heard his business.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I saw the reviews. Sometimes, you guys, when you get a one star review, I don't know who's responding. By the way, if it's not for you, it's hilarious. Where it's like you. You give me a one star review is as if we took the cheesesteak, we threw it at you, we stepped on it. What do you mean, a one Stop?

[Joey Merlino]

That's just. That's Patrick, you know, it's right there.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Right across.

[Joey Merlino]

Right across.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

If I win right now, Saturday, 6pm which one's gonna have a bigger line? Pats genos are your spot.

[Joey Merlino]

My spot? Not even close.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Between the three, you're gonna be.

[Joey Merlino]

Not even close.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

And that's because what? Because you guys. The way you make us.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. We got the best. We got the best cheesesteak.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How real is this? Because, you know, is this steak, you know, the Philly cheesesteak. Is this a real war? Because the people outside of Philly don't know how important this is political.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

This is spiritual. This is like a religious.

[Joey Merlino]

We don't with none of them but him. He's the one who started with us, but we. We buried him. I had a guy last week. I'll show you the video. I'll give it to you. You can put it up. The guy came with no teeth. With no teeth, which are typically past customers, he said. Or. And I told him, I said, you were right. Our customers don't need teeth. Our meat's so tender, you don't need teeth to eat it. And the guy ate the steak. Guy says, best thing you ever. This is.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

This is last week. A customer came in a couple weeks ago.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, when I was in Philly, it was like a week and a half ago. So I gotta show you the video.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So, Barrello, what's the story? I heard something about Borrello said something. If you come to New York, he's going to send somebody. A big guy came. What was that all about?

[Joey Merlino]

I have no idea. I don't know him. He's a nut. I don't know if he walked in. Oh, I know what he looks like now. I don't know him. He's a nut.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

There's no relation. Like, you guys don't know each other at all.

[Joey Merlino]

I never seen him in my life.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Is he a New York guy or is he.

[Joey Merlino]

I have no idea. Other than Florida. Tampa.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He lives here now.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, in Florida.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Okay.

[Joey Merlino]

All I know is he beats girls up. That's it. Beats the. Out of them and gets away with it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Interesting. And makes cheesesteak or he doesn't make.

[Joey Merlino]

No, you don't make cheesesteaks. Yeah, he just beats girls up.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He was part of the Bonanno family.

[Joey Merlino]

He says, I don't know him. I don't know him. From a can of pink.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Got it.

[Joey Merlino]

Although I know he's from New York. That's it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

The. The Philly against New York, right? There's this pride. You talk to New York, you know, level of toughness versus Philly. What's the difference? What. Who's tougher, in your opinion, between the two?

[Joey Merlino]

Listen, I mean, I was in jail with guys from New York. They're all good guys. I mean, there's no. I mean, there's no tougher. A lot of good men, Philly and New York, from New York. And there's a lot of big guys, familiar New York, you know, who. Who.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Who you took time with. Who were some of the names you did time with that maybe I'd know

[Joey Merlino]

you? And none of them. None of these rats? Non. None. None of these rats. You know what's funny? When I was in jail, oh, my time, I was never with Italians. They always ship me my list. I got 14 years. They sent me to Beaumont, Texas. USB Beaumont. And a guy used to write me. It was funny, you know, kids. From. A neighbor write me, you know, hey, you in there with anybody? Any Italians? I said, no, there's no. There was no Italians in there. Me and the kids text, write me back. He said, it's a shame there's nobody. I said, 11 Italians put me here. 10 Italians put me in this jail. All the people testified against me. So don't. You know, I don't go by that Tang. This. If you're a good guy, you're a good guy

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

and you travel anywhere. You go anywhere.

[Joey Merlino]

You go anywhere.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

When's the last time you were in Philly?

[Joey Merlino]

Last week. I'm going back this week.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

When you go there, what's the. How do they receive you?

[Joey Merlino]

They love us. They love. They love the cheesesteak place. We stay. I stayed there all day. We work, we stay there. I take Pictures with everybody. I talk to everybody.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Feel safe. You're not worried about anything happening?

[Joey Merlino]

No. There all the time. Sit outside. Well, once the weather. Weather gets nice outside. We love it. The people love us. They support us. They really do support us. They love us.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Why do you think that is?

[Joey Merlino]

We're good people. It's got to be. And we got a good cheesesteak. The steak's good. You gotta come.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You don't have any spots here yet?

[Joey Merlino]

No.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Are you planning ever to do anything or.

[Joey Merlino]

No. Yeah, I wanna. I'm gonna start. We're gonna start franchise. I think we're in a process now. We're. We're opening one in Chichester that's like half hour from us. Different part of Philly. It should be just waiting for the permits that should be open. So maybe a couple months and we're going to go Wildwood. We're going to think about going to Wildwood, New Jersey for the summer. It's a nice spot. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So nothing. Nothing yet coming down. It's going to be mainly that area is where you're.

[Joey Merlino]

I looked in Boca. Boca's hard. Like I was telling the guys, everybody in focus on az. Epic. They don't eat.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Eat some pokers.

[Joey Merlino]

I'm telling.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So you need an area where.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, we need an area where people are gonna eat.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah. You guys just got a new mayor, by the way. I don't know if you saw that. You got a new mayor that won by one vote.

[Joey Merlino]

Did you hear about this, Natalie?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah. You got a new Democrat. Mayor Andy Thompson is officially declared the new mayor of Boca Raton. And Andy won by one vote.

[Joey Merlino]

I didn't vote.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Well, that vote would have counted.

[Joey Merlino]

Look at that.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Look at that.

[Joey Merlino]

That's crazy.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How many votes does it say?

[Joey Merlino]

The recount now it's six, five votes. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So congrats on. Your new mayor. Is the Florida Democratic Party chair and said Thompson's victory in Boca Raton is adding political momentum to Democrats leading up to this year's midterm elections. Were you ever involved politically with different candidates?

[Joey Merlino]

Were you ever. Nah, I love Trump. They said I fixed the election with Joe Biden. That was bullshit.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

But, oh, the $3 million that you allegedly got paid 3 million to help Biden.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I can't see you helping Joe Biden. I don't know. Joe doesn't look like your type of a guy.

[Joey Merlino]

Trump's the best pitcher that. They made a big deal about that when we were in. I won confident. We were in Trump, you know. Yeah. In Palm beach, he took picture with 400 people. Everybody came up. He took a picture. We took. They made a big thing. And another Jake Tapper was. He did it like he did a thing at night for 15 minutes. He talked about me and Trump.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Saying what? Saying he's hanging out my whole record.

[Joey Merlino]

And I. And the guy was the front page of the Daily News in Philly. The same. And I called the next day. I told him. I said, no, I'm gonna talk to the guy who wrote the article. He said, you know, I don't. The lawyers said, don't curse us. I ain't gonna care. And I told him my lie. I said, he took pictures of everybody. He didn't know who I was. 100 people.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He had no idea who you were?

[Joey Merlino]

No. A lot of people went up there and took a picture, shook his hand. He did it with everybody. They try to act like, you know, they try to. They hate him. They hate him, too.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

But did you ever have any relation with them back in the days? He's not a Philly guy, though.

[Joey Merlino]

No, no. I mean, I know of him.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You never met him outside of that picture. You guys have never met before.

[Joey Merlino]

Never got it. But they make a big thing about it. Yeah, they hate him. They do the same thing he did to me. They do to him. Yeah, look, he had. He had more cases to me. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

90 was a 91. 93. I don't know what the number.

[Joey Merlino]

Get gets indicted every week. Leave the guy alone. Yeah, but that was the thing at the golf club. I said, he didn't know who the I was.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Who told the story about the fact that you got paid 3 million from. To help Biden out?

[Joey Merlino]

It came out, who.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Who spread that story?

[Joey Merlino]

Shot in a Buffalo paper. Some Buffalo newspaper.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Oh, you got. Like, they're saying, who paid you? Like Biden paid you 10 million.

[Joey Merlino]

Like, they're saying, I went to Philly and made Biden win. And I got. I made $3 million

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

roped into bizarre Philly election fraud conspiracy. Attorney for former Philly Mafioso categorically denies bogus story. Go a little bit lower. Rap. This is five years ago.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. And then they. They called my lawyer up. They wanted to talk to my lawyer. I said, biden. Biden. The first time I. I wasn't allowed to vote the last election I voted.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Not 20, 20.

[Joey Merlino]

No.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So. But what are they saying? Like, how would you have helped them out?

[Joey Merlino]

Fake news. Yeah. For 3 million bucks, they said, I went to Philly and pay people some fucking ballots. I don't know what the I don't even know what they were talking about.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Associate Joe Merlino might just be willing to flip on Joe Biden and the Pennsylvania political operatives who ordered up to 300,000 election ballots mark for Biden. The source alleges that Merlino and the lean team of associate manufactured those ballots at a rate of $10 a ballot at a whopping $3 million for three days of work.

[Joey Merlino]

And meanwhile, I think I was doing parole for the. For, for. For betting. I couldn't even travel to Philly. I Wish I made 3 million. Trump would have won if, if I would have never. Biden. I don't want Biden. And he ruined the whole country.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What do you think about when Biden won? Did you have an opinion about that? When he wanted to, yeah, it was great.

[Joey Merlino]

Howdy. Would the guy never. Trump was everywhere. He came out three times. Yeah. How the. He won't.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Let me ask you. If there is a mob, you know, and if a president needed help, you know, winning an election, because, you know, when you hear the story about John F. Kennedy and what was it? Chicago. What was the city that they went to? Mayor Dewey, if I'm not mistaken. Is it Dewey, if I'm saying it correctly, seven or eight thousand votes and apparently helped them win. You know, why is there a history of, you know, politicians going and teaming up with mobsters to help them out with elections? Do you think there is?

[Joey Merlino]

I. I have no idea. I don't know.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What do you think about the mob? Like when you.

[Joey Merlino]

No mob. To me, there's no mob.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Well, when you, when you hear these talk about, you don't think there's nothing.

[Joey Merlino]

Like, there's no mob? No.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

The fact that this is, I mean, listen, you got to respect it.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

There's no mob, there's no mob. So. So Godfather, Goodfellas, movies, These are all movies. These are all fake inspired movies.

[Joey Merlino]

UFO shows. They're UFOs.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah. So you don't believe UFOs exist?

[Joey Merlino]

No.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So the same way UFOs don't exist, you don't believe the mob exists.

[Joey Merlino]

Right.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So you don't think Scarfa was a boss of the Philadelphia crime family? Who was he?

[Joey Merlino]

Who was.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Who's Scarful to you?

[Joey Merlino]

Who was he? He was. It was a nice guy. Nikki was a good guy.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

That's it.

[Joey Merlino]

That's it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You said one time, you said, I like Nikki.

[Joey Merlino]

He.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He was always on time.

[Joey Merlino]

He was. He was.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

That could have a lot of different meanings, Joe.

[Joey Merlino]

Oh, no, no. He was always. If you had to be there five o', clock, he'd be there. Quarter four, 45.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Really?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. Okay. That's just the way he was. Well, I think that's disrespect. If I tell you I'm going to meet you five o' clock at night. I come six. You don't think that's disrespect?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I don't know if I would have seen him as a guy that would show up on time.

[Joey Merlino]

No, he was on time. Early come early. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How much time did you spend with him?

[Joey Merlino]

A lot. I mean, I know him.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What was his strength? He was a.

[Joey Merlino]

He was a good man when I was. When I was a kid. Yeah. That's the. Yeah. 86 El Dorado convertible. You know, the big one. And he. He came to Philly, I don't know what. He came to Philly for something and he gave me the car for the weekend.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How old were you?

[Joey Merlino]

14 or 15.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He gave you the car for the weekend?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Why would.

[Joey Merlino]

He gave me 200 to put gas in it. 200 back then was like 200 to put gas. Yeah. I drove around. I had it. I was little. Had the electric seat. I had to put a pillow. We drove around for three days, had the roof down. Had girls in the car. Yeah, it was red. It was red with white seats. It was older than that.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So he gets. So what's the relation with him and your father?

[Joey Merlino]

They were friends.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Okay.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, got it, got it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Was.

[Joey Merlino]

It was the old or other router. Not that one, the big one. 76.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

76. 76.

[Joey Merlino]

No. 76. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, it was red.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

The other one. The other one. The second one, the red one.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, it was red. Red with white seats. Wow. Beautiful.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So were there rumors ever that your father was a made man or.

[Joey Merlino]

No, no, not that I know it was my father. I mean, the paper just. They say what they want. Look, they said I fixed the election. No.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How good of a poker player are you?

[Joey Merlino]

Poker? I stink.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Really?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. I'm hard.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What's your. What's your game? What are you good at?

[Joey Merlino]

I like blackjack, bike, Gin. I like gin.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Like gin, Rami?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, I love it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Really?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Like 13 card, 11 card genre.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You're good at general?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How about backyard Back?

[Joey Merlino]

I'm a no. Chess. Chess. I'm pretty good in back. I'm enough.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Jin, Robbie.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. Jim Romy play. Yeah. Favorites. Jerry, play. Heart. Spades. Heart.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Spades, yes.

[Joey Merlino]

Spades, yes. But poker, I'm horrible. Horrible. I go all in. Broken free hands. I don't Have. You need patience. You know, you need. You gotta.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You need a lot of patience for poker. So that. So my friend.

[Joey Merlino]

My friend won the World Series. Grindr.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Wow. Good player.

[Joey Merlino]

He won the World Series of Poker.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I mean, is he like. Is he. Because there's a different game. He's got.

[Joey Merlino]

He's got five bracelets. Holy.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Okay. He's a phenomenal.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, they put him in. He won that. He won it. And they put him in the. I think the hall of. Hall of fame.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Really?

[Joey Merlino]

He texted me all day. He's all over now, playing.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

And you guys played. You used to play with them.

[Joey Merlino]

No, I can't play with him. He's good. He's good.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He'll take your money.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. You know. You know, people don't realize you gotta have stamina to play that.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

No question about it.

[Joey Merlino]

He won it last year. He was.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

I mean, they play 10, 12 hours a day.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I don't even know if it's healthy for you.

[Joey Merlino]

No.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Can you imagine? Like, you. What do you do for a living? I sit down for 10 to 12 hours and I take money from guys

[Joey Merlino]

in Vegas and poker players that wear glasses. Headphones. Yeah. Weird.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Oh, you have to be able to do it. It's.

[Joey Merlino]

Yep.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You have to. There's an element of being mentally and emotionally tough to be able to do that. So it. Gambling, was it from the beginning that you were interested in it because you.

[Joey Merlino]

Our whole neighborhood gamble.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

On what?

[Joey Merlino]

Any thing. Listen, when I was a kid, my mother had a. My mother, she had like 70 ladies come over to play poker in the house.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

She was good. Mom was good.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. Mom played, like, all the ways, you know, they played poker.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Right.

[Joey Merlino]

And they'd be in the house. The ceiling was in the house. Row home. They'd all be smoking, and I'd be like, you know, smoke. I was like eight. And they're like, shut the up. You. Like a girl. It's only smoke. I mean, what shot I have? Gambling, smoking. It's funny when you have. We grew up. Yeah. I mean, it's. That's how we grew up. There was hangouts on every corner. Yeah. You know, all guys playing pinochle gin, poker. And it's just the way we grew up.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah. I grew up in a family that they would. The whole smoking thing you're talking about, I totally relate. And Iran, 6, 7, 8 years old. It smelled. You just can't even breathe. 20 people in the house, they're playing gin, Rami. Our house was a Rami house. Everybody would play Rami.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Non stop.

[Joey Merlino]

I mean.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So then for you it stuck with you.

[Joey Merlino]

Stuck even. Like they have football pools. You pick four teams, a dollar, you win $10. My. My friend Donnie lived across street. His family were close. His father. My first. I hit a pool. My first one I played. That is football. Yeah, but I mean that's just the way we started.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What's the craziest thing you ever bet on?

[Joey Merlino]

I mean, I've been on fights. Non crazy fights. Horses. Football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So did you. Did you follow the story with Chauncey Billups saying the mob, you know, came in NBA, A lot of players were involved.

[Joey Merlino]

I seen they got locked up.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What is this? Because I've had Tim Donahan on as well. You know, he had his old friend. What was his name? Tommy, I think. I don't know what the guy's name was. Was it Tommy? Was he tied to Tim down here? Type in Tim, Donnie and Tommy. I want to say the guy's name was Tommy. Yeah, Tommy.

[Joey Merlino]

Tommy from Philly. He told two the who? Tim, the. The ref. The ref in the NBA.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Referee.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, he told too.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Did you know him?

[Joey Merlino]

No, no, he's from. But he's. He's from Philly, I think.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

No, he is from. Yeah, he's for sure from Philly.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. I didn't know I was away when that happened.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Did you know Jack. But this stuff Batista or.

[Joey Merlino]

No, no.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So none of you guys he was tied to, you know?

[Joey Merlino]

No, I've never seen him.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So what do you think about.

[Joey Merlino]

I wish I didn't know. I would get the games from him.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He would say it was really two free throws, one or two full fouls that could change the game because it was momentum and frustration for the opponent and you could get them to kind of change the game. But what do you think about the alleged mob ties to the NBA, recent gamblings, you know, allegations.

[Joey Merlino]

Why is it always the mob though? I mean I don't. I don't get it. The biggest, the. This fandom with the fandor they got. Yeah, if we did what they're doing, we would get. I would. I'd probably get the electric chair. This is going to be the biggest epidemic ever. Is this gambling with kids? Listen, you ain't seen nothing yet.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Legal gambling.

[Joey Merlino]

It's worst. Yeah, legal. Well, they call it legal because they got a license. Yeah, they pay the government so they're good. We do it, we go to jail. They got 12, 13 year old kids. It's going to be worse than crack. Listen to me, Mark my words this 2020 watch another couple years.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Tell me why.

[Joey Merlino]

Because every kid's gambling 13, 14 years old, steal their mother's credit card, open an account. All you gotta do is go on a phone, know what they're losing, forget it. Yes. It's going to be worse than crack.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Worse than crack?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. Watch.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Okay, so.

[Joey Merlino]

And they promote it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

This.

[Joey Merlino]

You watch a football game, right? Every commercial, the stadium.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Sure.

[Joey Merlino]

Band all bet.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yes.

[Joey Merlino]

They tell you, listen, you bet, bet $5 that Patrick Mahomes is going to have one passing yard. So they're giving you a free bet. You win 300. Now you win the 300, then you start betting and it's over downhill. That's like a guy saying come to my corner, I'm going to give you free crack. I'm giving you crack. So try it. Then they try. Wow. It's great.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You come back, you've seen a lot though. You've seen a lot. With kids getting addicted to drugs, alcohol, gambling, the game is going to be

[Joey Merlino]

worse than all again.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I want to know why though. Why worse?

[Joey Merlino]

They got them addicted.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You're not going to die from that. You're going to die from drugs. You're going to die from accurate.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, you could die, but they're going to go to jail. They're going to get jammed up because of the gambling. So they might go sell drugs, they might go rob a house, they might go rob a bank. Right. But the only reason they're doing is for the gambling to pay. Right. So they can gamble. Right. Like I went to jail for. I robbed an armor car. I robbed her for gambling. I just didn't rob the armor car because I wanted to. I got the money, I went gamble. I lost in the one weekend.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How much wasn't it?

[Joey Merlino]

How much was in the armor, the idiot. For the wrong bag. It was only 350 something, 350, 000. It was supposed to be 5 million. He threw the wrong bag out.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He threw the wrong bag out?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, yeah. It's true story.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What's supposed to be five million but only 350?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. And the bag was this big, weighed 100 pounds. I thought it was eight millionaire. It was all ones. Fives fit. It wasn't. Yeah, three.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How much time did you do for that?

[Joey Merlino]

I got four years.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How did you get caught?

[Joey Merlino]

Both guys who did it, the two guys who set the whole thing up and did it told on me and I went to jail.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Two guys that set it up to do it. You went to jail? They didn't do any time, any other day. But they knew that the Fed knew that they did it. They were involved, and so they didn't do any time because they ratted on you.

[Joey Merlino]

I went to jail.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How many people have ratted on you over the years?

[Joey Merlino]

Maybe I don't have enough time. I don't know. A lot. I get them all out of jail. All you got to do is say, joe, he told me to do it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Let's see what you're saying when he said, get them all out of jail.

[Joey Merlino]

Listen, I got a. I got a letter. I did a podcast in my lawyer's office. Ed Jacobs, best lawyer in. In the world, saved my life. Best. Best lawyer. A rat. I was away in ftc. Roger Vella, this other. He's writing me, I miss you. You know, the. So this guy, Pete the Crumb, gets locked up. Everybody who told him me didn't get locked up with me. Like, it ain't like me. And you robbed the bank, you know, I mean, you robbed the bank. Boom. You went home, you said, yeah, I'm gonna tell him, Joey. They got caught for something else. They did. This guy Pete gets locked up in Jersey and killed. He killed more people than. I don't have any people. He killed Peter Crumb. Yeah. He decides to cooperate on me. So the kid, Roger Vella writes me a letter. I'm in jail. I'm in the hole. Writes me a letter. He said, they make it so easy for you, for these guys. All you gotta do is say, joey Merlino told me to do it. You go to jail and they go home. I got the letter from him. Fast forward two years later, he gets locked up for murder. What's he do? Same playbook St Joey told me to do it. He's facing the death penalty. He got. He got 10 years just to say Joey did it. Yeah. They never charged me with it and my friend. Because they know he was lying, meaning out. But that's how easy it is. That's how easy they made it. Listen, you read the paper. You see, like, you take bits of pizza and you. And you'd say, listen, Bruce Cutler, I mean, great lawyer, he said the worst thing is half truth.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

A what?

[Joey Merlino]

Worse than is a half a truth.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Half a truth.

[Joey Merlino]

Like half of it's true and half it's not. Right. It's dangerous. I mean, that's how easy. That's how easy they make it for them. There's got to be. They're going to come up with a law. They got to do something with this. But now the people are starting to say it, though. I mean, it's just crazy.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How much total time did you do?

[Joey Merlino]

22 years. Total.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

22 years?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. Between jail, halfway house.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

22 years. Wow. And. And that 22 years is how many times going away.

[Joey Merlino]

Going away case in Atlantic City. You got seven years. That case was over Philly. And Eddie, he didn't tell you about that in his book? I went away for his mother.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Lynette's mother.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What was that for?

[Joey Merlino]

We were in a bar. It was. It wasn't a club. It was. It was a restaurant. The Lido was like a restaurant, a bar, you know, older crowd. We were young, and we were in there, and she was with me at the bar. And these three guys came over, and they didn't stop. Like, they were big. I was little. And they kept on. You want to dance? You want to dance? And I, you know, told the guy not. I said, she's here with me. Leave her the. Alone, you know, and she had a few drinks. I went to break, came out, she's dancing. I. You know. But then a fight broke out, and the guy with a chair and I went to jail for it. He never said that in his book.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Who was dancing? His mother.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. Lido restaurant,

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

August 1982, at 20.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Marlino and Salvador Scaffiti, son of the book bookmaker, beat and stabbed two male patrons at Lido restaurant in Atlantic City. Merlino was found guilty on two counts aggravated assault and one count possession of weapon for unlawful purpose. And where's Leonetti's mother involved in this?

[Joey Merlino]

No, she wasn't. I mean, that's how the fight started over her. Got it. She didn't get locked up or nothing.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Of course. Yeah. And what did Leonetti say about this when he found out?

[Joey Merlino]

No, he knew right after. The next day, though, like, we got a fight, you know.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What did he say to you? Was it like, hey, thank you, or

[Joey Merlino]

oh, yeah, he was. Yeah, yeah, him, you know. Yeah, he was. Which we, you know, was. Right. They were Bobbin's mother, but she was. She was juiced up. But he didn't put that in his book.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Where was the main falling out with you and Leonetti?

[Joey Merlino]

There was no falling out. He went to jail. I never seen him again.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You're not complimentary of him.

[Joey Merlino]

No, he's a. He's a piece of. But, I mean, there was never no falling out. I'm. He went to jail. He got pinched with my father and them. Then he never. He. He never got out, you know, I Mean, I never. I never seen him again.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah, so. So your biggest thing for. For a person to go from zero to piece of is cooperating. Once that happens. Done.

[Joey Merlino]

I mean, he's. Look, what's his book? Mafia prince. They don't want to go to jail. That's the main thing.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Did he ever cooperate against you or.

[Joey Merlino]

No.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Did he ever rat on you or. No.

[Joey Merlino]

No.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So there is no direct conflict between the two of you?

[Joey Merlino]

No.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah, because he called. He says Merlino, he's the only guy that said. He said Merlino is the worst human being in the world. He said that in the interview?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, he's the worst. He killed. He killed his best friend, Vince Falcone, and then married his wife, married his girlfriend.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He killed his best friend?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, he don't tell you all that. And then tried to blame his uncle. He was in love with a girl, Gina. I forgot her name. Gina. I mean, going back 40 years ago, his best friend was Vince Falcone. Vince was a cement guy. They were in business like, you know, concrete cement. Whatever the. He did, he was in love with Vince's girl. He killed Vince, blamed his uncle, his uncle. They got acquitted of it. And then married the girl. He's a nice guy.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

And then married the girl.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, married Regina and she went to program with him.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Now the story is that Nikki ordered that hit, though.

[Joey Merlino]

That's what he wants to say. No, he was in love with the girl. It's true. I mean, he married her, he went to program, he took her with her. He wants to blame his uncle. His uncle had nothing to do it. And he robbed those uncle's money and the family jewelry, you know, like his. Nikki's wife's jewelry, his kids jewelry. Him and his mother went.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah, I remember when. When we did the interview with Phil, his lawyer. Very good guy. We've talked many times. Nice guy. They came in and we sat down. It was the only interview where he didn't want his face and voice to be shown. Only one. And we agreed to the void, to the face, but not the voice. So I don't know if you saw the interview, but you know. Yeah, his face is not.

[Joey Merlino]

He wears a wig. The.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

If you tap, you'll see it the way it was done. And Rob, I give you permission to show it with adsense. So you're. Fast forward a little bit. Rob, just go to right there. That was. Yeah, that's how it was when we did the interview.

[Joey Merlino]

You didn't want nobody to see him.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah, he didn't want anybody to see him.

[Joey Merlino]

He was not. Yeah, he never told you that, though. He married the girl, then he blamed his uncle. Yeah, they all got the same story. The bottom line is they don't want to go to jail. That's it. As soon as the handcuffs come on, it's over with.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

But he. But directly. He's never done anything bad to you.

[Joey Merlino]

No, directly, but he's a. He's a piece of. He's a scumbag. Look what he did to his uncle. He robbed his uncle.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

When you say that, how did he rob him? How did he steal money from his uncle? You're saying Nikki Scarfle's?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. Whenever, before he went in the program, he. He was in Lewisburg. The mother was living there. He told the mother get all the money they robbed. I guess he knew where his uncle's.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How much money was it?

[Joey Merlino]

Oh, I have no idea.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Is it in the millions? Like real money?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, a couple million, they said. I mean, and he took all the money and then he went. He got out, buried his poor uncle, took the family, whoever. His wife and kids that took everything. But he. And he blamed his uncle for the murder that he did. And he married the fucking girl.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Was Nikki a similar model guy like you that he never talked to anybody, never met with the feds, never did anything. Was Nikki like that as well?

[Joey Merlino]

Oh, Nikki, yeah. Scarfall who never.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Was he locked like you couldn't get nothing out of him?

[Joey Merlino]

No, I think he was a good man. Yeah, he was a man. Who. Who.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Who are people you see that way?

[Joey Merlino]

Not too many today.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Would you say John Gotti senior was like that?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, yeah, John. I mean, I don't know him personally, but he was.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You're complimentary of him. John Gotti? Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

Okay. Yeah, 100%.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You guys never met him? You guys never. You. You never did anything together?

[Joey Merlino]

No.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Did you ever meet a Frank Collada or. No, you know, Frank Colada is. He was with Tommy. I'm gonna say Tommy Spilotra from Vegas. There was a. Part of a Chicago faction that they moved to Vegas. So you were purely. At that time when you were doing business deals. Are you going anywhere else or is just purely focused on Philly?

[Joey Merlino]

No, I still. I lived in Philly. I don't. I don't know. I don't know anything. I don't know none of these guys.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah, he was one of the coldest guys I ever interviewed. The. He died in August 2020 20.

[Joey Merlino]

The only informants I knew about all these guys is Leonardi and Ralph.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

The only ones you know Were those two?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, got it. Like all these other guys that are on shows and social media, talk about me. I never seen them, never was in jail with them. That was. I never seen him in a restaurant, never seen him nowhere.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What's the best compliment you ever got? What's the best compliment some of these guys give you?

[Joey Merlino]

Compliment, compliment, keep on doing what you're doing. So people tell me, no, but what

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I mean is, compliment is like, in your eyes, what is the best compliment another man you respect can give you? In your eyes? Like, what is a compliment that Sonny or Nikki would say about you? To say that's a real compliment in your eyes?

[Joey Merlino]

I don't know. I even thought of it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Is it more loyalty? Is it more, you know, Feared? Is it more what you do to people? Is it more keeping your word? Is it more what. What would it be? What would like if. If. If. If I'm your son and I'm saying, dad, what's the best compliment another man you respect can give you, what would you say it is?

[Joey Merlino]

Keep your word. Your word.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Keep your word.

[Joey Merlino]

Your words. That's all you got is your word.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Right?

[Joey Merlino]

I mean, for real, when you were.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

When you were a kid growing up, did you have somebody you looked up to, a role model? You're like, I want to be like this guy when I grow up.

[Joey Merlino]

Nah, I mean, like, the older. Like, we hung out with kids when we were square, like, we were like 11, they were like 14. So they were like old head. Like the old head. You know, we look left at me.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Just tough guys.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, tough guys. All good athletes. We played every sport. Played baseball, hockey. I played ice hockey, football. I mean, every sport.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Who was like a name, like, even at that time, was there anybody you looked up to that ended up being somebody?

[Joey Merlino]

No, I mean, like, athletes we loved, you know, one of. Always wanted to be a baseball player. Who was your guy? I mean, football. Zonker for the Dolphins.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Zonka.

[Joey Merlino]

I was on camp. Really? Yeah, I mean, you know, old, you know, basketball players when the. Everybody wanted, like, all the kids want to be like Jordan. You know what I mean? Like, just like. Like that.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Who was baseball for you? I mean, you said football, but I

[Joey Merlino]

thought you were basically talking about baseball. Yeah, we had, like, I mean, 80s. Mike Schmidt. Mike Smith. Mike Schmidt. Wow.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Makes sense.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. Larry Bauer, you know, got us all local. Yeah, they're all local. Got it. Those Lego, baseball players, hockey. Bobby Clark. That was my auto. Yeah. Flyers. I was a kid when they won the Cup. They won two years in a Row, I think. Yeah, he was great. Bobby Clark. That was my first jersey. Number 16.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

No, that's not the Bobby Clark. It's a different Bobby Clark.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, that's him.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah. Did you play hockey or no.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, ice hockey. I played. That was my favorite sport.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Really?

[Joey Merlino]

So today's my favorite sport, ice hockey.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Isaac, who else played ice hockey?

[Joey Merlino]

All my friends. We all played. We. We played in Jersey. Like, we used to play. Yeah, that was my favorite sport.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How'd you get introduced to ice hockey?

[Joey Merlino]

We always ice. It was right over the bridge. We loved it. We played street hockey. Like, oh, you know, they didn't have rollerblades and it was roller skates. Then we went to ice skates. You know, I love hockey. Greatest sport. You see what they did to the. The American hockey team? They hate them. They hate them for it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Just because they went to the White House and.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. I mean, what's that girl's name? I hate her. The soccer player. Rapone.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Rapone. Rapineau.

[Joey Merlino]

What is she Looks like she's dying. You look at her. She got balls. She got balls. Just look at her.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You don't think she's attractive? You don't think she's sexy? Because they.

[Joey Merlino]

They looks like she's dead another six months, she'll be dead a year. And she buried the hockey team. Yeah, she hates. It was another one. She hates Trump. They hate this country.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How do you deal with these guys? I mean, I'm assuming you love America. You're.

[Joey Merlino]

I love America.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. They hate this.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How do you think they get to the point of hating the country that made them who they are?

[Joey Merlino]

I don't know. They all complain. They all. They don't want to stand up for the national anthem. Fuck it. Leave. Go back to where you're from.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

Give all your money back and go back to where you're from. Go play over there.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Do you have an opinion on what's going on right now with Iran? You see what's going on with Iran, with Trump, what he's doing? How do you feel about what he's doing?

[Joey Merlino]

He did the right fucking thing. They've been trying to kill us for 47 years.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So you're supportive of him doing what he's doing? They're killing all the 50 plus guys.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. Fuck them.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You know, apparently they killed another guy yesterday.

[Joey Merlino]

Yesterday, about that.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah, the chief intel guy.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, he got it yesterday.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Like, that's like the director of their CIA.

[Joey Merlino]

He was bail. Yesterday. He told Trump, you won't be around too long. We're coming after you.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah. Israel says it killed Iran's top security leader. As Tehran targets US Embassy in Baghdad.

[Joey Merlino]

Listen, they've been killing it. Well, Carter, he was. I mean they killed all the marines. They killed them. I mean they. They've been bombing us for years. He gave him. He gave him the warning. What was it, eight months ago that said all they had to do is say we're not. They don't want to do it. They don't want to do it. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Didn't want to do it. By the way, you know, I'm sure you see the Epstein stuff that's coming up.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How did you guys. How did guys. Was there ever somebody who was a pedophile in South Philly? And if. Yes, how'd you guys deal with them?

[Joey Merlino]

I mean. No, not that we know of. Like if they might have got like locked up and then we never seen

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

anything happen where a guy, 40 year old guy raped a 13 year old girl. Was there any stories like that?

[Joey Merlino]

I mean, you heard her shit read in the paper. No, not in our neighborhood.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

No, not in your neighborhood. That was a known. Like if somebody did, what would have happened?

[Joey Merlino]

Beat him the fuck up. They should cut their balls off.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Zootopia 2 has come home to Disney Plus. Let's go get ready for a new case.

[Joey Merlino]

We're the greatest partners of the new friends.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Gary the Snake and your last name

[Joey Merlino]

the snake Dream team. New habitats. Zootopia has a secret reptile population.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You can watch the record breaking phenomenon at home. Zootopia 2 now available on Disney Plus.

[Joey Merlino]

Rated PG. And right now you can get Disney

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

plus and Hulu for just $4.99 a

[Joey Merlino]

month for three months with a special limited time offer.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Ends March 24th. After three months, Plan Auto renews at $12.99 a month.

[Joey Merlino]

Terms apply.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Do you think some of that needs to return some of that fear in communities to where you can't act like that?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. Look what they do to these kids. They rape. You gotta be a sick to rape kids. I mean you really do.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I agree.

[Joey Merlino]

They should cut their balls off.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

There should be a new policy like proposal to the President.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, they're so protected in jail. You have no idea who.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Pedophiles.

[Joey Merlino]

What?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Protected.

[Joey Merlino]

Protected. Now there's different levels. Like in a penitentiary they can't come in. There's all different levels. There's. There's USP penitentiary. That's high. Then you got. Well you got the ad access to supermax, but you got the penitentiaries. Then you got medium they can't go there. Low. There you go. All the lows are full of. Full of pedophiles. And if you hit one of them, you get five years. It's a hate crime.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

If you hit one of the pedophiles. Five years.

[Joey Merlino]

If I hit. Just say, Joe. Joe blows here. I know he's a pedophile. Yeah, you. You rape it and I crack him. It's a hate crime.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Now, if you crack anybody else, what do you get?

[Joey Merlino]

Nothing. No, you got. So.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So a guy gets in.

[Joey Merlino]

If you hit a pedophile, you get.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Is this serious, Joe?

[Joey Merlino]

You want to swear on my mother?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Are you. That's insane.

[Joey Merlino]

Insane. Yeah. They protect. There's so many of them, see, like years ago, but one or two got caught now with the Internet, I guess they do all this traffic and whatever the. They lock thousands of them up. There's thousands of them, thousands in the jails.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Well, what. What I hear is if you're a pedophile and you rape the kid, you go to jail. They kill you. They destroy you. So those guys were untouchable?

[Joey Merlino]

No, they're in. They're in Lowe's. They can't go to camp because of safety reasons, so they keep them in lows. There's. I was in Coleman low. There might be 1900 inmates. 1500 are pedophiles, and the other 300 are rats.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

1500 are pedophiles.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, there's a lot of them.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

And so when a guy comes in and he's a pedophile, and you guys know what happens? Like, is it like, don't touch him,

[Joey Merlino]

don't mess with them, don't look at him, don't talk them.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Do they come to try to talk to.

[Joey Merlino]

Before you get the out. Don't even. Yeah, don't sit there. They got one thing about jail. If a guy walks in, just wait, wait three days. Just watch him. Whatever he is, he'll find his own element. Three days. Three, four days. If he's a. If he's gay, he'll find gays. He'll be sitting with the gays. If he's a pedophile, he'll be sitting with the pedophiles. He's a rat. He'll be sitting with the rats. If he's a Christian, he'll go with the Christians. If he's a standup guy, he'll be the standup guys. That's it. It's like an X ray machine. You see it? It's crazy. No, it's nuts.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Wow. So naturally, you're going to gravitate towards your.

[Joey Merlino]

Find your level. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Were there a lot of gays in prison?

[Joey Merlino]

A lot undercover? Yeah, yeah. Not too many, you know, like, not flaming ones, but. Yeah, there's. There's some, you know.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

And they find each other.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, they find each other. No, it's not.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Do they give their asses handed to them or. No, no, I don't leave.

[Joey Merlino]

They don't bother. They don't bother you.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So if you beat up a pedophile, you get five years.

[Joey Merlino]

You get. If you beat up nothing.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So you can beat up the.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So they don't support. So the jails don't protect.

[Joey Merlino]

They call it a hate crime if

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

you hit a pedophile. I am still shocked by this.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, the bop.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

This is a law, like, by the.

[Joey Merlino]

I'm going by now. I was one west. I was here 20, 19 when I was away. I don't know if they changed it, but I don't think they did. There's too many of them. There's so many of them. Yeah, they protect.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

That's interesting to say in South Philly. When you were there, no stories of pedophilia, no rape, nothing like that? Was it just a feared? Like, if you're going to do anything, don't do it here?

[Joey Merlino]

I don't know. I mean, nobody likes pedophiles. I mean, unless it happened when we didn't know. You know what I mean? But I never. Not really. Look at our neighbor.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Interesting. Epstein. What do you think about the whole Epstein situation? What's with, you know, the stories? Did you ever have any. Know anything about him? Do you ever know the name?

[Joey Merlino]

No. I mean, I heard the name.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I read it long time ago.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, well, you know, I. I don't know him. Okay. What do you think the Trump got to them? Bill Clinton was in his house more than him. Now they're all sick. They're all sick people. They all got. They all got billions of dollars. They're all sick. They're. They should cut all the balls off. They should. Yeah. For real.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

It's a lot of balls.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. I mean, but they hit it all. They hit it all.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

If that was possible, they did their crimes.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. If that was me, I would have got hung dead. Be dead. That's why I said there's different set of rules for different people.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What's the luck, dude? The feds are watching this podcast.

[Joey Merlino]

Oh, they're probably watching you might get indicted with me.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Is there any fed? Is there any. Is. Are there any Feds that became friends?

[Joey Merlino]

No, never.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah. Has anybody tried to like befriend you? Come. Hey, you know, Joey, we were bad to you. We were. This. We were.

[Joey Merlino]

No, no, none of them. No.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

If they tried, you're not.

[Joey Merlino]

I won't slow with them.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Hey, Joey, let's go have dinner, man. Remember, 30 years, who will you not have dinner with? So it's feds. Who else is like a. For you because you're a black and white guy who was somebody that from the previous life. Hey, let's try to rekindle, you know, etc.

[Joey Merlino]

No feds, no rats, no child molesters. I really don't know child moles, but that's it. Like I said, you want a job? The cheesesteak. As long as you're not a rat molester, we'll hire you tomorrow. I tell him, you got to bring your paperwork, you got to show it. I don't know your case. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

By the way, there was a guy that apparently was part of a crew in Philly. Nickname was Gorilla with a pagan.

[Joey Merlino]

Oh, gorilla. Yeah, I know. Gorilla.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Gorilla. Tough guy. I think apparently one time he got shot 18, 19 times and he still made it.

[Joey Merlino]

I know Gorilla. Yeah, he's old now. I don't got.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I mean, he looks like you. If you pull up his. That's the one right there. Rob Steven Gorilla. If you pull up his picture to see what he looks like, this is not somebody you'll ever forget. When you see him, go to images. Go to the bottom left picture, bottom left.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You're a friendly guy. Yeah. So he ran a crew. A couple of the other guys. There was a. There was a crew that ran by. I'm trying to see who this was. A. Anyways, it was an African American of some, some. Some other gang that were leaders there as well. Allegedly, based on my contacts from Philly. There was a massive mutual respect towards you with them. Why? Why did these other crews respect you the way they did?

[Joey Merlino]

I. He's my friend. I mean, I get along. Go with all of them. They come to Cheese day place. They support us. South la, everybody supports everybody. Believe it or not, they.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

They support everybody.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, they got a lot of good people in South Philly.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Is that part of DNA? If you're south, gotta help you win.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, I mean, we all. We look out for each other.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Who's known as the most successful guy that came out of South Philly? Is there like a name? Because, you know, in Boston, you see how Mark Wahlberg is protective of Boston. Dana White. There's a lot of pride for Boston. Yeah, Boston names from South Philly, ain't too many.

[Joey Merlino]

South Philly. Who the from South Philly that made it? Frankie Avalon. Okay.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Bobby Rydell, the Gator?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, Bobby Rydell, the Gator. Jerry Blavettino.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So not a lot of.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, not a lot of.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Why is that? Why is that?

[Joey Merlino]

No, not else. I can't think of nobody. I mean, you think of Philly, South Face, Stallone, Rocky, you know, but he's not from South Philly.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He's not from.

[Joey Merlino]

I think he's from Philly, though, right?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Rocky, where. Where's Stallone, Stallone from?

[Joey Merlino]

He's a good guy.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He's very good. Yeah, he's down here as well.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, he.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He bought the house I looked at. It's a beautiful house. The guy who built the house, is he from South Philly?

[Joey Merlino]

New York City.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Manhattan?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

The house he bought. The realtor who was showing me the house started telling me the story about the house. He says, you know, I bought this for my girlfriend and she was going to take care of my art collection. Very, very good storyteller the guy was. And then we looked at the house. I'm like, yeah, I don't know if we're going to live in Manalapan. It's a great area.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, it's beautiful.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

But he has a beautiful home. Last thing I'll tell you before I wrap up. Reason why I brought Sonny up to you is the following

[Joey Merlino]

is

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

good friend of mine. Who again? Philly.

[Joey Merlino]

You got a lot of friends.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I do, man. I do. Their dick. I just get along. I was in the military, you know, I'm a guy that's been doing business in, you know, every state for the last 25 years. Insurance, finance, business. And I like stories. I like hearing people's upbringing and learning about what they're doing. He says, pat, let me tell you why this is going to be a different interview for you with Joey. He says, I know Joey. He says, I grew up. He says, their crew path is. This is the word he used, impenetrable. He says, no one's ever going to say anything. You have to realize no one's ever going to say anything. He says, you can ask 50 different questions, Joey's not going to tell you nothing. Okay? And he says, everyone's like that. He says, and by the way, this is why we love them. When we lived in South Philly, and he got in a lot of trouble as well, he was a part of a couple smaller crews But a lot of respect for the guys. And the reason why I brought up Sonny is. You have no idea how hard I tried to interview Sonny. I'd go visit, he would sit down, we would talk, we would have great conversations. By the way, he was 100, 203 years old. He could still remember things. He would tell the girls at the place, hey, Mary, come here, Mary, fix my hair. I gotta look good for Patrick. Come fix my hair. Grab the comb. Why are you going the other way? I told Sonny, I'm coming, Sonny. And then she would come, grab the comb, fix his hair. And you know, I'm like, so, Sonny, when are we going to sit down so you can tell the story? Patrick, what do you want me to do? The only thing I have is, is the fact that I never talked. 55 years I did time. You want me to go tell the. I said, sonny, if you don't tell the story, the market's going to tell your story in a way that's their version, not the truth. He says, I can't do nothing about that. You're going to have to kill me, bury me. I'm going with my story and I'm not going to talk about anything. Three times, Joey. I went to him, we're driving and we're going to the Stallion spot. I have this expedition. He's sitting ready. I got the whole crew behind me. And I said, so, Sonny, what was Lucky like? Great guy, family guy, honest guy, very good guy. I said, meyer Lansky. What was Meyer like? I heard he was a billionaire. He made a lot of money deals in Cuba. I don't know about any of that stuff. All I know is he was a standing guy. He was a very good guy. I said, what was Bugsy like? He says, you would never call him Bugsy to his face. I said, well, what was Ben like? Ben Siegel, stand up guy, great guy. You know, same thing. And this pattern kept continuing. We're together that day for two or three, three and a half hours. And eventually I walked away. We never got the interview. And. But I walked away. And I said, by the way, some person faked him and went there and they set up a camera. He had no idea he was being interviewed. And they interviewed him. They put him up. It's like a 13 minute podcast somebody did with the father, Sonny Francis. I walked away. I said, here's a guy, the stories. One time, a guy's in his house, flirts with his wife, is too friendly with the wife. This is again, allegedly. We have to put that, you Know? Allegedly. Allegedly. He goes in the kitchen, he beats the guy up, says, why would you flirt with my wife? Cuts him up, burns his body and kills him. This is allegedly, of course. Right. You know when they say how many people he took? You know, 50, 55. You know, numbers are between 40 to 55. True gangster Sonny Francis. And you hear stories about him partying with Jackie Kennedy, partying with Marilyn Monroe. Like, these are the stories. I know your grandfather had a relationship, I think, with Marilyn Monroe.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, my grandmother went to the wedding.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What stories does he. Does he tell you about Marilyn Monroe?

[Joey Merlino]

My. He died before, but they were friends. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah. So to me, you know, part of you reminds me of Sonny. You know, part of you reminds me of Sonny because neither one of you guys would talk.

[Joey Merlino]

Right.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

No matter how many ways I asked the question. The mob doesn't exist.

[Joey Merlino]

No.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So these guys are liars.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How do you feel about the fact that they lie about mob existing?

[Joey Merlino]

They've been lying about us for 100 years.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So are you a fan of the guy that started the FBI?

[Joey Merlino]

Oh, J. Edgar Hoover. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Hoover. Because he said it's. It's not a real thing. The market doesn't exist.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, he said it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah. Well, he said it. He must be right.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Wow. Do you watch mob movies or.

[Joey Merlino]

No, I never watched Sopranos.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You never.

[Joey Merlino]

I've never seen Sopranos, but I never watched one episode.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Me neither. I've never seen Soprano.

[Joey Merlino]

He was a rat, too. They said in one of the episodes. Allegedly. Yeah. He sat down with the FBI. I mean, in the show. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

To you. Once you do that, it's over.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You've never sat with the FBI once?

[Joey Merlino]

Never ever.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Never.

[Joey Merlino]

No. The only time I seen them is when they locked me up.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How many times were they offered to sit down with you to sn.

[Joey Merlino]

They never ever.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

They never offered.

[Joey Merlino]

Never.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Why did they never offer bottle, though?

[Joey Merlino]

I'm glad. I mean, I'm glad they didn't.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So they never even said, joey, you don't need to do 22 years. You don't need to do 12 years.

[Joey Merlino]

Never.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Just snitch on this guy and you'll never get it.

[Joey Merlino]

No. We were facing 12 year. I was facing death penalty twice. Our RICO case in Philly, the one in 2001, when I got pinched in 99, we were facing upon me and my son go to house and I made my lawyer get up. You know, here's the problem. A lot of guys don't listen. I was no older boy. Yeah. That I steal. Yeah. Receiving stolen property Yeah, I did that. W Gamble. Yeah. And I told my lawyer, get up, tell the jury, this is what we did. This we. We gambled, we. We received stolen properties, stolen stuff. But all this other stuff we didn't do. And the jury got shot. He came back, they acquit us of everything. And my guidelines for receiving stolen property and gambling, I was supposed to get 50 something months. He gave me 14 years.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

50 something months, they give you 14 years?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. It was only receiving stolen property and gambling gave me 14 years.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Were you ever afraid of going away?

[Joey Merlino]

No.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Was it just kind of like part

[Joey Merlino]

of the life you could go, make the best of it, work out? Jill saves you, preserves you.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

In what way?

[Joey Merlino]

Well, you're in bed by 9 o', clock, you don't drink, you work out all day, you don't smoke, you practice on your gambling, your gin game, you run, you exercise. I'm 64, minus 22. I'm only 42. You look great, though. Yeah, I'm only 42. Yeah, 62. No, I'm 64.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You're 64. You said minus 22, so 40.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, well, 22 years didn't count, so I'm only 42.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What's the future for Joey? What are you excited about? What's the future look like?

[Joey Merlino]

To be the next Jersey mics.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

To be the next Jersey Mics.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I saw the video you made about Jersey. Do you have that video of Jersey Mike's typed in the Berlino Jersey mics?

[Joey Merlino]

I was that and Pat Stakes is neck and neck.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Gotta see this. That's the one right there.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. Watch this.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Turn the audio if you could. There you go. Top.

[Joey Merlino]

There you go. My daughter just doordashed Jersey bikes, cheese steak. How the are these people in business? Look at this. What the is this? It looks worse than Pats. Look at it. I don't know how to open the. It won't even open. Look. What the is this? I gotta just take one bite and throw it out? How do you get. Oh, get the out. Listen, it was theirs. My daughter. We went to Naples. They came down with their fiance. So I said, we are b to be the house. So I'm. She's like, dad, you hungry? I said, I'm going to Jersey. I said, Jersey Mike's? She said, yeah, it's tools around here. And I think I asked, I said, what about the. What's the place? The chicken place?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Chick Fil A. Chick Fil A.

[Joey Merlino]

They're closed on Sundays or something. Yeah, I said, got ordered. They got cheesesteaks. I Said, I don't know. I should not. I should guess what? Get me one. I want to say, but that's why I want to be the next Jersey Mike's. They sold for $9 billion.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You want to build the next Jersey Mike?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. Skinny Joe's down, put them all over.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What a story that would be if

[Joey Merlino]

you pull that off. I want to sell it for a billion dollars, buy a yacht, an island, and that's it. That's how my life's going.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

That's the dream.

[Joey Merlino]

Die on a boat.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

It die on a boat.

[Joey Merlino]

First thing I'm buying is an airplane, though. So now I got money. I can't take this, the airport to drive their tsa.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How often do they recognize you, by the way?

[Joey Merlino]

Oh, they recognize.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

They recognize.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. Yeah, they recognize. But now they're on strike.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah, yeah. I'm seeing the.

[Joey Merlino]

You know, the Democrats. They don't want that. They're dying for an attack to happen here. That's what they want. Yeah, I think it'll happen. They're gonna do like, you know, like ones inside, obviously. Yeah. Like, you know, guy driving it. But I always said, did you see the other day in Michigan when they drove through the thing? See all these school shoots? I've been saying it for two years. You could stop it. All you gotta do is get five. Five veterans, you know, that need a job, make him staying outside school with a machine gun. A guy walks up, drop the gun. They don't drive. Just kill him. You'll never see nobody ever going to school. The guy drove the car through Mexican. They killed him. He would have killed all them kids. Yeah, bombs and all. But you need. You got to put people outside the schools.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You think streets of New York were SAFER in the 80s or today?

[Joey Merlino]

No, in the 80s, my neighborhood, my neighbor, we used to leave the doors open if you lived across the street. Nobody locked their doors. I could walk in your house.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Surely, because the fear of some. If you're retaliation, if you do something.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, nobody did it, though. Like, nobody ever broke in nobody's house and raped girls and they're all nuts today. They're all drunk.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

What he's doing to New York City.

[Joey Merlino]

Oh, that. I hate him, too. Yeah, I hate him. Hopefully he'll get runned over. But it's Philly now. Like, Philly New York. It's bad looking bad.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Final words. So I didn't know you wanted to build a bigger than. Yeah, Jersey Mike's. Be billionaire by yacht, by playing it.

[Joey Merlino]

That's it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Be free and enjoy yourself.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, that's the. I mean, that's the best revenge, right, Joey?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

If that happens.

[Joey Merlino]

I mean, it's on the yacht. You're coming on the yacht.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

You do that. You know, I'm gonna sit there and say, this is. This is a wild success story. I can only imagine if CNBC and some of these guys have to interview. So today we have the CEO and the founder of, you know, Merlino Steakhouse. So, Mr. Merlino, is it true that you. How did you go from this to this? I'm just a regular guy. I can't wait to see that interview.

[Joey Merlino]

I'm gonna give you the interview.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

That would be a classic interview when that happens. So podcasts, right, Rob? If we can. So the podcast is the Skinny with Joey Merlino. Little stuff and little snuff. By the way, he's a very good.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, snuff's good, right?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Very good. Why? Where does he get his talent from on camera? He's very good at work.

[Joey Merlino]

You know what? When I first thought I said, I want to do a podcast.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

How'd you meet him?

[Joey Merlino]

I know him my whole life.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Okay.

[Joey Merlino]

I know his father, like his grandfather is my father's age and I'm his father's age. His father might be a year older than me. And we're all from the same neighborhood. All gambling degenerates. You know, play cards and hanging hangouts.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

When I first started the podcast, Kevin Connolly, you know, Kevin Connell, of course.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

So he said to me, you got to find a guy. Like I said, sidekick. And he was, who the am I going to find? So he said to me, all these guys, I'm like, I don't want that guy. I don't want. Who was the one guy? Some. I said, no. I said, wait a minute, I might have a guy. Cuz snuff was snuff did car commercials. You know, you work at the dealership. And he. That's it.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

So I know nothing about snuff. All I know is when I see him, he is very talented. Very talented.

[Joey Merlino]

So I got at one of his car. Car commercials, I text him, I said, send me one of your car commercial. I sent to Kevin. He said, you. That's your guy. He said, he's the best. He's good. He's good what he does.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Rob, what's the. What's the guy that Tony came from? You know where they came to the house? He was supposed to come to lunch and he has a channel and a good looking guy. Yeah, this guy. What do you know about Tommy T. Because he. There's some rumors that I was in jail with him. Oh, you were in jail with him?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, he was. I was in jail with him.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

No relation?

[Joey Merlino]

No, not at all.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He's not your son? He's not any. My son?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. No son?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

No. You were in jail with him? Yeah, I was good.

[Joey Merlino]

It was a nice kid. Nice kid. Got it. I was in jail.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Have you ever done his show or. No?

[Joey Merlino]

No.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Okay.

[Joey Merlino]

He's got a big show, right?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He's got a big show. He's got a good show. Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

He's got.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

876000 subs yeah, he's actually a very good interviewer. He had me on and we had a very good conversation together. Yeah. When I see snuff, I tell myself that's a. For a personality like you, there needs to be a guy like that that knows how to get the information out and how to do it in a respectful way. And he gets it.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, he's good.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

He gets it.

[Joey Merlino]

Really is.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah. I'm happy. I'm. I. I love him. He's like my son.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Well, so we're going to put the link below, Rob, if we can, to the podcast the Skinny with Joey Marlino. And is there a website for the cheese. Cheesesteak place or no?

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, I got to get it for.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Do you have that or not set up yet? What's the website here? Let me ask stuff the Skinny, Joey's Cheesesteak. Put the link below there as well for the steakhouse. And now I want to the. The cheese. Oh, now I want to try the cheesesteak and I gotta come to Philly to try it out.

[Joey Merlino]

Yeah, let me know.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

But last but not least, we gotta wish you a happy birthday, man. We brought you a cake.

[Joey Merlino]

Thanks, man.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

For your birthday. So let's sing for Joey on three. One, two, three. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday dear Joey Happy birthday to you and many more.

[Joey Merlino]

And blows up.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

This is legit. Candles, guys.

[Joey Merlino]

There you go. That's my favorite.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Is it?

[Joey Merlino]

Carve out.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

I love it.

[Joey Merlino]

Ice cream cake. Best cake ever. I love it, man. Thank you.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Thank you. Good choice, Alicia. Thank you. Well, happy birthday to you. I know we've been trying to do this for a long time. I'm glad we. I look forward to it. Stuff is. Yeah, yeah. You really, really like his talent. And I know one of our guys used to work with you in the past. He's right there. Good looking guy. Yeah. He had nothing but good things to say, so. And to all the feds that are watching. Apparently he's never been part of the family. Allegedly. But you guys got to keep doing your job. But he keeps beating you guys. It is what it is. So.

[Joey Merlino]

Well, listen, like I said, the old administration, you know, back, I'm going back in the 80s, 90s, that there were, I mean, I like Cash Patel, the new ministry, you know, these guys are, yeah, you know, but I'm, I'm talking about the older, I am talking about the new minutes. They were, they were, they were worse than anybody. Crooked. Listen, but that a case, my friend's case. I was away. We had three FBI agents on wrong year, right?

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yes.

[Joey Merlino]

We had three angels on the case. They admitted that they lied on work application papers to get a raise to be able to move up to make more money. The judge told them we're not allowed to. They were getting on a standard test. We're not, we're not. You're not allowed to use it. You're not allowed to use it. If they lied to get a raise, you think they won't lie to put some money in jail? These are FBI agents now. They were crooked back then. They were never bad. They were really bad.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Joey, the fact that you're not saying anything, man, that's just, you know, I, I, I talked to Jonah Mendes. She was a former chief disguise officer for the CIA for 20 years. She married a very well known CIA agent that was in there for 31 years. What's the guy's name she married? She married a very, very well known CIA guy. Can you type in her husband's name? You're going to know who he is. Very, very well known guy. Yeah. Tony Mendez. Okay. Legendary CIA officer known for the Canadian caper rescue mission. So anyways, one time they married each other. By the way, they wrote the book, the Moscow Rules. Anyways, one day I'm with her at the right outside of the White House. I'm talking to her. I said, what's the great quality of your CIA agent? She said the most incredible thing. She said, a great CIA agent is somebody that can save the free world. Just help take out a leader that would have done something very bad to the world and millions of lives are saved. But he has no desire to want to brag about it to the world. She said, that's a great CI agent. Competitive, charming, charismatic, but doesn't need to say anything on TV because they don't need the accolade.

[Joey Merlino]

Right.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Little bit of that is if you were the boss of the Philadelphia crime family, there you go if. I'm just saying, if you were for a long time. I mean, a little bit of that is like the. You know, it's like the cousin of CIA, because, you know, they're never going to say who they are and what they did. So you got to kind of respect. I'm sure you respect guys like that.

[Joey Merlino]

I'm not even the boss of my family.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Yeah.

[Joey Merlino]

Believe me.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

All right, well, we're going to wrap it up right there. I think that's the right way to go. And by the way, Joey's on my neck, so if you want to ask him any questions, you can go to Manek. We're going to put the link below as well.

[Joey Merlino]

Thank you.

[Interviewer (Patrick)]

Great having you on. Thank you.

[Joey Merlino]

My name is Joey Merlino. Any questions you have on my neck, you want to ask me. I'm an expert in sports gambling restaurants. We got the best cheesesteaks in Philly. Anything you want to know about Philly? South Philly, Atlantic City, Reach out. And I got you.