"MK Ultra Was REAL!" - Chase Hughes UNVEILS Disturbing Truth About CIA, PSYOPS, and Mind Control

Summary

PBD Podcast Episode Summary: "MK Ultra Was REAL!" - Chase Hughes UNVEILS Disturbing Truth About CIA, PSYOPS, and Mind Control

Release Date: January 10, 2025
Host: PBD Podcast
Guest: Chase Hughes

---

Introduction

In the gripping episode titled "MK Ultra Was REAL!", host Patrick Bet-David engages in a deep and unsettling conversation with guest Chase Hughes, a seasoned expert in psychological operations (PsyOps) and behavioral profiling. The discussion delves into the dark history of CIA mind control experiments, the mechanics of PsyOps, and the implications of such operations on individuals and society.

---

Understanding PsyOps and MK Ultra

Chase Hughes opens the dialogue by contextualizing PsyOps as an ongoing aspect of modern intelligence strategies. He asserts, “MK Ultra was the beginning of a psychological arms race,” highlighting the inception of covert mind control initiatives by intelligence agencies (00:00).

• Key Insight: PsyOps are not relics of the past but continue to evolve, influencing current events and individual behaviors.

Historical PsyOps Operations

Hughes recounts some of the most disturbing PsyOps conducted by the government, notably an operation involving J. Edgar Hoover's attempt to hypnotize a German submarine captain. The objective was to manipulate him into sabotaging the German fleet—a testament to the lengths agencies go to leverage psychological manipulation (00:25).

• Notable Quote: Patrick Bet-David summarizes, “genetics loads the gun. Personality and psychology, aim, experience pulls the trigger,” a metaphor highlighting the interplay between inherent traits and external influences in human actions (00:44).

Behavioral Profiling and Influence

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on how influential individuals can manipulate behavior without relying solely on language. Hughes explains that the mammalian brain is primarily influenced by four factors: Focus, Authority, Tribe, and Emotion—spelling out the acronym F.A.T.E. He emphasizes, “if I can influence that mammal part of the human brain, then I get results every time” (14:00).

• Key Insight: Effective persuasion and manipulation hinge on non-verbal cues and psychological triggers rather than just verbal communication.

Body Language Analysis

Throughout the episode, Hughes demonstrates his expertise in reading body language by analyzing notable public figures' reactions. For instance, he dissects Diddy Combs' body language during a Breakfast Club interview, identifying signs of high stress and avoidance, such as mouth covering and facial denting (89:XX).

• Notable Quote: Hughes remarks, “when somebody's being deceptive, it's not about them lying directly. It's more about their physical avoidance and lack of congruency between words and actions” (90:13).

Parenting and Authority

Transitioning to a more personal topic, Hughes discusses the importance of instilling an internal locus of control in children. He advises parents to empower their children by teaching them self-control and autonomy, rather than enforcing hierarchical dynamics. Hughes states, “getting control over your physiology, your psychology is going to follow next” (17:14).

• Key Insight: Effective parenting focuses on developing a child’s internal control and emotional regulation, fostering resilience and independent thinking.

Psychopathy and Behavioral Indicators

A critical segment delves into identifying psychopathic traits through body language. Hughes references Dr. Robert Hare’s research, explaining subtle indicators such as lack of forehead wrinkles from frequent smiling and minimal expressive facial movements. He recounts the case of Aaron Cathy, a young girl showcased on Dr. Phil, whose body language signaled pure psychopathy (54:24).

• Notable Quote: “If you see somebody who’s been happy their whole life, you’re going to see little crow's feet form right here,” Hughes explains, pointing to the outer edges of the eyes as markers of frequent smiling (55:37).

MK Ultra and Mind Control Experiments

Hughes provides a harrowing account of MK Ultra projects, including Project Midnight Climax, where prostitutes were used to drug unsuspecting individuals with LSD while scientists observed covertly. He discusses the collaboration between George Estabrooks and J. Edgar Hoover to create split personalities for covert operations, aiming to control individuals to perform specific missions without their conscious awareness (73:25).

• Key Insight: These experiments underscore the potential for psychological manipulation to alter fundamental aspects of an individual's identity and behavior.

Contemporary Implications and PsyOps in Modern Events

The conversation shifts to contemporary events, such as the actions of Matt Liversberger and instances of drone-related incidents. Hughes posits that the repetition of specific narratives across multiple media outlets signals orchestrated PsyOps aimed at shaping public perception and diverting attention from underlying motives (86:34).

• Notable Quote: “If I'm hearing the same exact reporting from multiple different sources, it's automatic that something is being forced into the news instead of the news is reporting” (87:10).

Tools for Recognizing and Countering PsyOps

Hughes offers practical advice on identifying and countering PsyOps. He emphasizes the importance of recognizing patterns, questioning repetitive narratives, and understanding the underlying motives behind information dissemination. Additionally, he touches on the use of pharmacological aids like beta-blockers and muscle relaxers to manage physiological responses to stress and authority, which can be indicative of deeper psychological conditioning (101:07).

• Key Insight: Awareness and critical thinking are essential in discerning genuine information from manipulated PsyOps narratives.

Conclusion

The episode culminates with Hughes urging listeners to remain vigilant about the psychological influences shaping their perceptions and behaviors. He reinforces the notion that mastery over one's physiology and psychology is crucial in resisting covert manipulation efforts by powerful entities.

• Final Quote: “If you have true authority, you have true confidence; it’s no longer about me being better than anybody else. It’s just about confidence and discipline” (38:52).

---

Key Takeaways

1. PsyOps and MK Ultra: Historical and ongoing psychological operations by intelligence agencies aim to manipulate individual and collective behaviors.
2. Behavioral Profiling: Non-verbal cues and psychological triggers are more potent than language in influencing actions.
3. Parenting Strategies: Empowering children with internal control fosters resilience and independent thinking.
4. Identifying Psychopathy: Subtle body language indicators can reveal psychopathic traits.
5. Contemporary PsyOps: Modern events may be influenced by orchestrated PsyOps to shape public perception.
6. Countering Manipulation: Critical thinking and awareness are vital in recognizing and resisting psychological manipulation.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Chase Hughes: “MK Ultra was the beginning of a psychological arms race.” (00:00)
• Patrick Bet-David: “genetics loads the gun. Personality and psychology, aim, experience pulls the trigger.” (00:44)
• Chase Hughes: “The mammalian part of the human brain has four parts that influence it: Focus, Authority, Tribe, and Emotion.” (14:00)
• Chase Hughes: “If you can influence that mammal part of the human brain, then I get results every time.” (14:00)
• Chase Hughes: “We tend to think like there's some highly advanced technology, but it's usually pretty simple.” (05:15)
• Chase Hughes: “If I'm hearing the same exact reporting from multiple different sources, it's automatic that something is being forced into the news.” (87:10)
• Chase Hughes: “When somebody's being deceptive, it's not about them lying directly. It's more about their physical avoidance.” (90:13)
• Chase Hughes: “If you teach your kids to have an internal locus of control, they are in charge of everything.” (27:51)
• Chase Hughes: “We have to get down to the mammalian brain because it's in charge.” (17:14)
• Chase Hughes: “Withholding information can be a sign of deceptive behavior.” (95:12)

---

Resources and Further Reading

• Chase Hughes' Books:

  • Behavior Operations Manual
  • 6 Minute X-Ray Rapid Behavior Profiling
  • Ellipsis Manual

  (Available at nci.university)

• Project Midnight Climax and MK Ultra Documents:

  • Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) releases provide detailed accounts of MK Ultra operations and experiments.

• Dr. Robert Hare’s Research on Psychopathy:

  • Psychopathy: Theory, Research, Implications, and Clinical Questions

---

Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a profound exploration into the clandestine world of psychological manipulation and mind control. Chase Hughes' expertise provides listeners with critical insights into recognizing and understanding the subtle mechanisms of PsyOps, empowering them to maintain autonomy over their perceptions and actions.

---

For more information and to explore Chase Hughes' work, visit nci.university and check out his published books available through the website.

Transcript

[Chase Hughes]

Foreign. We're always involved in psyops all the time. MK Ultra was the beginning of a psychological arms race.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What do we not know about CIA and their capabilities?

[Chase Hughes]

Number one, it's the most magnetic human trait. It draws people to you. The highest performing individuals on planet Earth are doing this.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Can you give some of the most successful psyop government has used?

[Chase Hughes]

Dude, this one will keep you up at night. This guy had a plan with J. Edgar Hoover to hypnotize a German submarine captain and send this guy back into his port and torpedo the entire German fleet. The average person could be talked into murder in about an hour.

[Patrick Bet-David]

He says genetics loads the gun. Personality and psychology, aim, experience pulls the trigger.

[Chase Hughes]

That's the most beautiful way I've ever heard it describes, described everyone who's at the very, very top of the top does this.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Tell me more. It's not every day we have a guest on that trains intelligence agencies. So think about DIA or CIA. That's what our guest today, Chase Hughes, doesn't matter. It was so interesting talking to him. Of course, I had him react to Diddy's interview on Breakfast Club when he was asked if he killed Tupac and he breaks down his body language. Yes. Did we have him react to the envelope that was given to President Bush, to Obama's, to Clinton's to see. Yes, he reacted to it. However, what if I told you he's going to break down by where you have a lot of wrinkles on to say if you smile a lot, if you're curious a lot, and if you're a psychopath purely based on the wrinkles on your face. So you may not want to watch this because you may watch this and you may have a big argument with your husband. You're going to say, babe, according to this guy, you may be a psychopath or you don't smile enough. We broke down a lot of different things as we're going through it. I asked him a question. One of the things he helps is helping executives hire C suite executives that are part of multibillion dollar companies. And he broke down the one question he asks before he hires them to identify if people are good people to hire or not. And when he helps with lawyers and they're interviewing jurors, he said to know whether we keep certain jurors or not. There's one question we ask. This guy's a body psycho, you know, body language specialist. He breaks down psyops with what's going on with drones today or Luigi Mangioni or the cybertruck he breaks it down in a way where you're going to look at psyops in a very, very different way. With that being said, something tells me you're really going to enjoy this. Sit down with Chase Hughes. Did you ever think you were made again for me? Adam, what's your point? The future looks bright. My handshake is better than anything I ever saw. It's right here. You are a one of one.

[Chase Hughes]

My son's right.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I don't think I. How you doing?

[Chase Hughes]

Good, man.

[Patrick Bet-David]

It's good to have you on. Yeah. A couple. I was telling you six weeks ago, I watched this video of yours about the drones and all this stuff, and hey, how do I identify psyop? And I'm sitting on watching this, I'm like, this is great. And I talked about on the podcast exactly the way though you broke it down and then looked into your background, obviously I've seen you. You've done a lot of great work over the years. And I said, I'd love to have this guy on to get a different angle on what's going on. 20 year vet, Navy. You. You worked on a spy mission with a boat that you said was 85ft. I'm curious to get into that and a few other stories that you have, especially with all the craziness that we got going on in the world today.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So right off the bat, okay, to go to someone with you, with your background, to the average person, you know, when you hear the word psyop, you know, look at for psyop, the drones. We allowed him from November 18th for six weeks, and we're not doing anything about it. Hey, look over here. But something's going on over here. You know, how does the average person, you know, want to identify psyop or even consider the concept of a psyop?

[Chase Hughes]

Man, that's a good question. I think the average person just looking at what's going on is we're always involved in psyops all the time. And when I say psyops, I don't. There's a part of the US army that's special operations, that's psyops. And. And when we say psyops here, we won't be referring to like, this is the U.S. army. We're talking about just general psychological operations here. But if you're seeing large scale things happen, the first thing you want to look at is what's the timing of this event and what's the context of what's going on. And then right away, what is the Information that's being suppressed and what's being forced out into the public. Like these passports that happened and the. The ID card that was found in this guy who burned in a Tesla. Like, somehow this thing mysteriously.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Talk about Matt Liversberger, who. His cybertruck exploded from the Trump Tower.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. So, like, what is information suppression and availability and what's the timing of what's going on? Like, is there something else happening? So, like, is a political candidate about to transfer power or is something going on somewhere else that this could be some kind of distraction for? So we just go back to the. Like, if you learn magic and you get a magic kit when you're a kid and they teach you like, well, shake your hand over here. Let me just do this thing. It's very basic. I'm just going to do a big thing over here to draw people's attention away. So there's no. We tend to think like there's some highly advanced technology going on to harness the power of Messiah, but it's usually pretty simple. So.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So for you, Chase, the average person sees the drones. Oh, it's the drones going on. The average person sees, you know, with the cyber truck and the whole idea that you're talking about and then Sean Ryan and his crew talking about that email. When the average person sees it, they look at it at face value. Here's what happened.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How do you view it when you see it?

[Chase Hughes]

The first thing I'm looking at is what's the incentive here? Is there somebody that's going to gain from this being public or this being exposed to the public? And if you just look at the last few years, anything that we want to normalize to the public, we start out small. So we start out with these Freedom of Information act releases like UAPs, drones, UFOs, all this stuff. And then these whistleblowers will come forward and start going on podcasts and start going on. They've been on Joe Rogan. They've been all over the place. So it started like this massive amount of information flux.

[Patrick Bet-David]

We had a couple of those. We had one of the guys on as well. If. If you're talking about the UFO whistleblowers.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Interesting business model. Keep going.

[Chase Hughes]

And who was the guy that you just had on? I watched it on the plane on the way over here. Dr. What was his name?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Stephen Greer.

[Chase Hughes]

Stephen Greer.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay.

[Chase Hughes]

Most believable guy I've ever seen from a body language perspective. Like, he is very believable. There's some guys that I think are less credible but if you just look at this release of information, when I see the drones, as a behavioral expert, I'm seeing this is a logical expansion of that narrative. This is the, just the next logical step in a normalization process. So we're normalizing these drones and we're normalizing the aerial phenomenon and then all of this stuff happening. We, we don't know what the end goal is. So if you're looking at a psyop, the end goal of all psyops is to modify or shape behavior of a crowd of people, a group of people. So what would be the end result or the desired end result for somebody to shape behavior of a country or a populace? So we want to normalize it, but then you got to go into, and I'm not going to speculate on this, but the next step is why. Why would this need to be normalized? What would the next step after that be?

[Patrick Bet-David]

So you got one incentive. Who benefits from this? Right. And you were going somewhere. So the business format is here's aliens, crisis, scare everybody, hey, potentially, we need. Because of this. And then you bring those. So you're saying the level of advancement of the way they would do it is boom, claim this guy's a whistleblower, that he's going up against the government, where in reality he's actually representing them. Trick the populace to believing that he is on your side and be careful with this. And the whistleblower increases confidence in saying, yeah, I don't trust the government when it comes down to this, but this is what's really going on. Which in reality, that's exactly what the government wants to relate to you. And then trick the populace into distracting them from what the really is going to be. Is that kind of what you're saying? That's the business model.

[Chase Hughes]

Definitely possible. And I'm always, and I'm not, I'm not casting aspersions on anybody, but I'm always suspicious if someone's coming out as a whistleblower when they have a list of what I'm allowed to talk about and what I'm not. And when a whistleblower comes out with, oh, I can't talk about that, I'm limited to, to speak on that, then they have a list of speaking points, and that makes me a little suspicious.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Do you have any examples of it?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, so we, I'm not going to mention any names, but you'll, you'll probably know who I'm talking about. You see somebody that comes out as a whistleblower and they've have this. They start talking about all these programs, and a podcast host is going, okay, well, tell me more about. Are we doing this? Are we doing surgeries on these guys? Do we have these little alien creatures locked in a jar somewhere? They're like, oh, I can't mention that. That's. That's the end of the road of what I'm allowed to talk about. Then there are people with speaking points is what it is.

[Patrick Bet-David]

There are people. And so you mentioned Stephen Greer. Why'd you bring up Steven Greer? Did you bring him up because you. You believe he is a psyop, or did you bring him up to say, no, that's a guy that actually believe that what he's saying is correct?

[Chase Hughes]

I believe Stephen Greer. Absolutely.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You believe him?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. And I just watched it yesterday when I was flying down here, and I watched the whole entire episode.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And you've never met Steven.

[Chase Hughes]

Never met him. But every time I've seen him talk, he's okay with ambiguity. He's okay saying, I don't know that. We see so many people that are certain about everything. They know the reason, they know the why. They know maybe the star system that some kind of craft came from. They. They're certain. And I see the more certainty that I see in somebody, the less credible I tend to see them. I'm a little more suspicious. Let's just say that. And he is okay with ambiguity and saying, like, I don't know what this is or what it's for, but this is the fact.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Can you give some of the most successful Psyop psyops in the past that the government has used?

[Chase Hughes]

Dude, this one will keep you up at night. Can we type something in on the.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, of course.

[Chase Hughes]

So type in Psyop Vietnam Ghost. So this is Operation Wandering Soul. So they learned that the Vietnamese believe that the ghosts of people stay around and you can communicate with them sometimes. You can hear from them sometimes. So we found a way to kind of hack into the North Korean radio systems and had dozens of voices of ghosts that would play like phantoms over the radio and say, I can't believe what I did. I should have surrendered. I could still be with my family if I just surrendered. And this is like you can hear the. Oh, the tape is right there. But it's haunting, and it was a really good program.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So Vietnamese culture calls for a proper burial becoming a one. So it is the Vietnamese belief that the dead must be buried in their homeland or their soul will wander aimlessly in pain and suffering. Vietnamese feel that if a Person has been properly buried, then their soul wanders constantly. They can sometimes be contacted on anniversary of their death and near where they die. Vietnamese honor these dead souls on a holiday when they return on site where they die. The US use this to their advantage and trick their vehicles into leaving their playing, even by playing the audio recording of their dead friends. Are you kidding me?

[Chase Hughes]

It's insane.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And is that the example of what it sounds like, that they actually have a recording of it?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Let's hear it. So what is this? What are we listening to?

[Chase Hughes]

So just some ceremonial music, but then the voices come in and fast forward a little bit. So now it's. It sounds like a haunted house. Like you remember when you buy, like a cassette tape of Halloween noises.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yes.

[Chase Hughes]

That's kind of what it sounds like.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And what did this do? How. How successful was this operation?

[Chase Hughes]

I think it was very successful because I think a lot of people either chose to return home or so they could be buried at the right place or to surrender so that they didn't get killed and they could make it back to their family. So this is a great example of it. But when it comes to behavior, here's one of the biggest things. If I could divert really quick.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah.

[Chase Hughes]

The biggest thing that you can ever understand about human behavior is that human beings tend to overvalue language.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Human beings tend to overvalue language.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. So I teach persuasion and influence for a living. I don't teach psyops all the time. I train psyops maybe once a year. And. And that's at Fort Bragg. So when it comes down to let's. Let's just take a basic example of sales, a sales team. Somebody says, well, I need a better script. I need a better thing for the phone. What do I say? Or somebody, let's say the top sales guy at a company has this record number of sales. What does the management do? They're like, okay, what is he saying? Not who is he? It's what is he saying? And that's the biggest mistake it took me 15 years to learn. This mistake that our species makes is we value language so much. And I've studied neuroscience for the past seven years, and there is no structure in our brain designed for language. We have one for vision, for smell, for touch, motor control, all this other stuff. There's no hierarchical structure in our brain for language. It's because it's pretty new to us as a species, and our brains haven't changed in 200,000 years. But we think, what do I need to say? And When I get clients, the first thing that clients ask me for is, we need a better script. I need more techniques and tactics. I need to know what to say. And I immediately go back and we're 30ft from an airport as we're sitting here right now. And I go back and I say, if I gave you a flight checklist, every single detail on it for a Cessna 172. Are you a pilot now?

[Patrick Bet-David]

No.

[Chase Hughes]

No. I mean, you can follow those little steps, but it's not going to make you fly the plane. Well, it's not going to make you do a good job. If I spent $50 million developing the most incredible sales script that's ever been written in the history of humankind, and I take that and I hand it to somebody who has social anxiety and I tell them to go make a sale. It's not going to be very effective. So we fail to recognize as human beings that if I can influence that mammal part of the human brain, then I get results every time. And when it comes down to psyops, it's the same thing. And that mammal part of our brain has four parts or four things that influence it. And that spells out the word fate, and that's focus, authority, tribe and emotion. Those four things. If you watch a. The most brilliant way to demonstrate this is if you just watch a video of Cesar Millan, the dog whisperer. He's training these dogs. He doesn't sit down and talk to these dogs and say, listen, I know, I know you haven't had a great life. I know you were abused in the last home, but these are new people. They're great. They're great folks. That's a mammalian brain that we're dealing with. And. And it's the same thing for human beings. And we could go into. I could show you some beautiful examples of how fast, like you could talk a human being into murdering a total stranger. The average person could be talked into murder in about an hour.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What do you mean?

[Chase Hughes]

We're going to get into it? If we have time, of course. But that's the biggest mistake, that we need to understand what influences the mammalian part of the human brain. That focus authority, tribe and emotion. Those four things are what truly influence human beings. It's not about language. And I spent my whole life learning or my. The beginning parts learning. Like what are the words I need to say? What's the little. The sneaky little script that takes place. But if we look at. And this is all going to tie back into how we're being Influenced by social media. And it's not the language we're hearing. It's not the reports of all this stuff is going down. These attacks are happening. Those words are not. Are almost meaningless to us. It's the imagery. And even, like, if you're thinking about. Just a quick sidetrack to that, if you're setting goals, just writing goals down in language doesn't do as much as you've heard of vision boards before, doesn't do as much as that. So when I'm teaching my clients how to set goals, the first question I ask is, how could you show your dog what your goals are? If your goals are not written in a way that you could show it to a dog, you're a lot less likely to accomplish them. We have to get down to the mammalian brain because it's in charge. So for anybody who thinks like, oh, the human new part of our brain is in charge of us, try to hold your breath until you die. You can't. You can't do it. That mammalian brain is going to knock your ass out. You're going to be laid out on the floor. So that is one of the biggest things that we really need to understand is that when we're talking about any of this influence, it comes down to that focus, authority, tribe and emotion.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Go ahead.

[Chase Hughes]

There's an experiment that took place in the 60s. It's, is what I'm talking about here, when you get a stranger to murder somebody else. This is called the Milgram Experiment. Are you familiar with it?

[Patrick Bet-David]

No.

[Chase Hughes]

Can we bring it up? Well, just maybe some images of it. So there is. Let me just pretend like Patrick's a volunteer for this experience.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Pull it off.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, but I just want to put you in the scene here. You respond to an ad in the paper. It says where Yale University is doing an experimentation on learning and the power of learning. And you take the ad in the paper, they say, we'll give you a lunch voucher, Subway sandwich or something for participating. So you take it up there, you go into this building, you go into a hallway. There's another guy there. You're both volunteers. There's a guy in a lab coat that's running this thing, and he says, we're going to draw straws for one of you will be the teacher and one will be the learner. So the other guy draws the learner straw. He goes to you. You become the teacher. Unbeknownst to you, this other guy's a volunteer. He's in on it. You're the only person Participating in the experiment. This guy in the lab coat walks you into this little room which you can see like an above view right there where the T is, that's teacher, the top, right?

[Patrick Bet-David]

So the T is the teacher, the E is you.

[Chase Hughes]

The E is the experimenter. That's the dude in the lab coat. Okay, so Patrick is the T right there. So they sit you down at this machine, they say, this is an electric shock machine. And it goes from like 30 volts all the way to the right where it says xxx danger, extreme shock. And the goal is. So Patrick, you're going to read these little word groups to this guy in the other room. And before the experiment they, they let you go into the other room right there and you watch that guy get strapped to a shocking device.

[Patrick Bet-David]

The L?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. The learner.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah.

[Chase Hughes]

So you watch that dude get strapped up to a learning device and you're going to read these words out and see if he can remember them. And if he gets it wrong, you hit this button and deliver a shock. That wall right there is paper thin. It's just some drywall. So you can hear him go, ah, you can. Oh for some of those intro shocks. But every time he gets one wrong, you have to take that little slider and move that voltage up one notch and shock him again. So the guy keeps getting it wrong, keeps getting it wrong. Around 250v, he's screaming every time. Around 275 he's saying, I have a heart condition. I want to stop, I don't want to do this anymore. I want to stop. I'm done with this. Come, come get me out of here. Around 400 volts, there's no more reaction. It's total silence. And he's not even answering the questions anymore. So you turn back around to this guy in the lab coat and, and you're like, he's not, he's not answering these questions anymore. And the guy in the lab coat says, it's important that you continue. The experiment requires that you continue. So any non answer must be treated as an incorrect answer. Please continue. So you keep reading out these words into a microphone and shocking increase, shock increase all the way to this 450 extreme thing. So before this experiment took place, these psychiatrists got together and they said, how many people are going to go through with this? Who's going to, who's going to go all the way and kill somebody? Or so they think they're going to kill somebody. The shocks are not real and they thought 0.8% you have to be a psychopath. You have to want to hurt people. And in reality, 67% of people went all the way. All the way. This is a big deal. So Stanley Milgram's trying to find out, do people just respond to orders? Like the Nuremberg trials were going on and these Nazis were saying, we were just following orders. So Dr. Milgram says, let's test to see if that's true. So 250 volts is enough to kill you. Right. And 100%. 100% of people went up to 250 volts. 100%. So there's a lot going on there, but none of it. There was no. The guy in the lab coat didn't have some secret hypnosis trick. He didn't have some sales.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How many questioned it? How many said, no, I don't want to do it? And, and what was the incentive for the student to do this, to continue doing this?

[Chase Hughes]

There wasn't an incentive. It was obedience to authority, was the main thing. There's a tall guy in a lab coat who looks like an official, looks like a doctor. And Dr. Milgram hypothesized that they undergo something called an agentic shift, where they become an agent on behalf of an authority figure. Does that make sense?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yes. So I would have to trust to see that there is some, some sort of authority and somebody I'm trusting that's doing this. But there would have to be credibility with the individual that's asking me to continue doing this.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, but the credibility is. Novelty is first. So if you go back to our ancestral roots, let's say 10,000 years ago, let's say you and I lived in a tribe together. And every day you and me go out and we fish. And that's our job, to bring fish back. And every day we pass by this giant ass bush, and one day we're coming back to our village together carrying the fish. And behind that bush we hear a stick snap. Where is both of our focus? Right there. We're not thinking about our kids. We're not thinking about anybody back at home.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Sure.

[Chase Hughes]

Only on that stick. So that's, that's what we call novelty. So when something is new or unexpected, it generates a tremendous amount of focus. And then focus leads. So focus, authority, tribe, and emotion. So focus comes first. You respond to a newspaper ad you've never done before into a building at Yale University, you've never been to, to meet two guys you've never met into a room you've never been in, in front of a Machine that you've never seen before, reading these lists you've never seen before. Everything is brand new. So we have a tremendous amount of novelty which generates focus. The second once I have focus, you start becoming hyper responsive to authority. So now we have this guy in a lab coat that's saying, you need to shock this dude in the other room. And this experiment's been repeated many, many times with very similar results. And now you're. Now you're all in. Once you deliver that first shock, that's an agreement. You've made an identity agreement. It's just like the foot in the door technique with sales, because once you've made a tiny little agreement at the beginning, now I've redefined who I am as a person. I am the person that's participating in this experiment. You've made that agreement. So it's focus, authority. And now you don't want to be seen as somebody who's disrupting everything. So now we have tribe. Does this make sense?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yes. The theory I hear with this, I think we spoke about it with one of the mobsters that we had on the podcast, was it's a lot easier when somebody's giving you an order to kill someone because you're not doing it. I need you to take out Johnny. Yeah, I'm not doing it. You told me to do it.

[Chase Hughes]

Right.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So, great, I'll go and take him out. So I got 18 hits. Not really. I don't have 18 hits. It's 18 hits that were ordered for me to go and do. Hey, take the shot. Like in this movie Homestead, the father tells the boy to take the shot, and the boy kills a person in a movie Homestead. And the boy doesn't know how to deal with it, but he took the shot. Not because he took the shot. He took the shot because the father told him to take the shot.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Now, the part I want to know about is the 33% of people that didn't continue, 67% that did, the 33 that didn't. What did they learn about them? Was there a certain profile? Was it. This doesn't make any sense to me. Was it their questioning authority? What. What did they learn about the people that didn't continue?

[Chase Hughes]

The people that didn't continue had a higher level of autonomy, and their locus of control was very, very internal.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Oh, locus of control.

[Chase Hughes]

Meaning, like, am I in charge of my results or is it the environment?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Right.

[Chase Hughes]

And like, I. I train attorneys all the time. We do trials and jury selections and stuff like that. And when we want to determine locus of control. Because, you know, you're allowed to ask the jury one or two questions.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Sure.

[Chase Hughes]

And strike them if you want. We just ask them, how does somebody catch a cold? That's it. As you get one group of people that says, well, there's kids wiping their boogers all over the escalator handles. There's people coughing all over the place. People don't wear masks. People are just absolutely inconsiderate. If they're sick, they get out of the house. They don't stay home. They're just inconsiderate bastards. You hear the other person say, well, I didn't take care of my health. I didn't wash my hands, I didn't sanitize, I didn't wear a mask. It's all about them. So that's the perfect way to determine locus of control, just in one little quick question. So that was. Those people had a very strong internal locus of control. And that's like if. If you're a parent out there, anybody that's a parent I know you have kids that are like 11, 12 right now, when they go to the doctor, I let them know you are in charge. That doctor is your employee. They will leave. When you tell them to leave, you ask all the questions that you want to ask, and you say, come over here. Take a look at this. So you're in charge of everything. You have a rash under your arm because there's some deodorant that you are, you know, that made a red mark. Ask him. You can do anything you want. Ask him. Anything you want. So you want to teach your kids to have that locus of. You're not domineering, you're not ordering the doctor around, but you are understanding, like, he's there for you, and you're in charge of the situation. You can dictate what happens. So giving them that agency of you can determine your outcomes in life is so important. And that's where we have things like White Coat syndrome, or there are people that get misdiagnosed from doctors and still suffer the symptoms. So they get a diagnosis of something they don't have and start developing symptoms right away.

[Patrick Bet-David]

There's another word for that as well, White coat syndrome.

[Chase Hughes]

Nocebo.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Right. Staying on this topic, I want to go to another one, but I want to finish it up with this one here on parenting. So what other mistakes do parents make when parenting a child? I mean, this is a very interesting point you made that, hey, that doctor you're paying, you're paying them. They work for you. So what do you want to learn from them while you're with them? It's a different mindset Instead of, Hi, Dr. Authority. Yes. Okay, I'll do that. Why do I need to do that? Does this work? Why would I take this? Why would I do that? Why are they saying this like you're teaching a different mindset? What else are you teaching kids?

[Chase Hughes]

The number one thing that I would say, anybody could teach their kid, and I wish I could go back and I did nine deployments over my career. I missed out on, like, half my kids. Life is the biggest trauma for me is not having been there. But you've seen the ultimate gift.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Of course. Read the book, bought a thousand copies, gave it to everybody. It's an incredible Jim Stovall. Yeah.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. It's better than the movie. If anybody agree out there?

[Patrick Bet-David]

I agree.

[Chase Hughes]

The book's better than the movie. It's one of those books that. Yeah, if you're. If you're a successful person, you buy multiple copies because, you know, you're. I'm going to give this to as many people as I can, but getting your kids to a point where they no longer see the world through hierarchy. So I'm in a. In a position, and I, I teach people to have confidence and authority. Like, what? We can definitely get into this if you want to. Like, the elements of what tricks a human brain into seeing an authority figure. What is it that tricks that mammalian brain? But the biggest mistake that most people make is in order for me to have confidence, in order for me to have authority, I need to have some understanding of hierarchy. I need to be above other people. If I'm an authority, I have to be above Patrick on this podcast. I've got to be better or higher or like, seeing the world through hierarchy will ruin your life. So when we're talking about that doctor example, they're working for you and they're your partner. They're your partner in this. So all of, all the. All the ways that people mess up in business, and I'm sure you've learned this lesson many times. I've. I'm still having to learn it, but is I see the world through hierarchy, which automatically means I'm going to see competition instead of collaboration. So it becomes a competitive, instead of a collaborative environment, which is not very good for life. It's not good for kids. But getting in, getting out of that mindset of seeing hierarchy. So if you have true authority, you have true confidence is no longer about me being better than anybody else. If there's anything that we're comparing ourselves with somebody else's, can I be more comfortable than the other person in the room? And that's it. Just can you be more comfortable? So if you have an 8, 9, 10 year old, it's can you, I want to challenge you to move slower than every other kid in your class today. Just can you do that for one day? So you're going to teach them to kind of get control over their body and just slow down and be more in control. So you kind of get the physiological part moving first, if that makes any sense.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What else?

[Chase Hughes]

And those are the, those are the building blocks of authority. And when it comes down to, and.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What'S the main objective of moving slower? Does it mean you're in control? Does it mean you, nothing rattles you? What, what is the significance of that?

[Chase Hughes]

It helps to relax your body. So we can, we can dig into hypnosis as much as you want to, but when, when a hypnotist is talking to you then, and they're like, oh yes, all your muscles relaxing. Yes, those little muscles around the eyes, the scalp relaxing. It's, it's making your body, it's forcing your physiology to get to a place where your brain starts releasing safety chemicals. And our number one safety chemical on our brains called gaba. And GABA is just basically what hypnosis is, GABA chemicals going into the brain and then getting our brain into something called a theta brainwave state.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Bring it up.

[Chase Hughes]

So it's gamma aminobutyric acid. So it's an inhibitory neurotransmitter. It's kind of like the, the RA in the college dorm that tells everybody to turn the music down, just calm down, you know, it's lights out. That's kind of what it does. It just inhibits excite excitement in the brain. So if you're doing that, if I'm teaching my child to get control and this is what I would teach my clients, this is what I teach clients that are 20 years older than me, that are big business owners and stuff. If I just, if I can get you to get control over your physiology, your psychology is going to follow next.

[Patrick Bet-David]

If I can get you to control your physiology, your psychology is going to follow next. Yeah, I mean that's part of that is in sales as well. Right. But for kids, going back to the kids, if, and you know, you're telling young boys they're energized, they're running around, they're fired up, they're fighting, they're Competing, they're playing sports, all this stuff. Move slower, Right? What. What is. Tell me from. For. Because I agree. I'm just trying to see where you're going with it. For the audience to see this part.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What is the benefit of them doing that?

[Chase Hughes]

The benefit is gaining control over self, getting control over yourself. So you're not. You're not bringing them home and saying, all right, I want you to sit down here and meditate on this yoga mat for 45 minutes. Kids are going to do that.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Right.

[Chase Hughes]

But you are saying you just. You're getting this slow little steps of evolving, so increasing and evolving levels of self control. And it starts with those. Those bodily movements. And you're not telling some kid, especially a young boy, you're not saying, sit still. That's very different. But you are saying, just move a little slower. And it's not at P.E. p.E. That's. That's your job to move fast, but every other time throughout the day, move slower than the other people, just gaining some dominion over your body.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Very interesting when it comes down to that, with parenting, especially the moving slower part. Because even when I think about people, you watch them how they interview, right? You watch certain people how they're interviewed. You watch certain people the way they speak. Because this would be completely against what a Tony Robbins would be. Moves fast, talks fast, energy high, but yet he still is under control. If you talk to people who are on the set with Tom Cruise, walks fast, moves fast. But if you watch his interview with Matt Lauer, which I'm sure you've seen many, many times, you know, when he's talking about Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, you don't know what you're talking about. I've spent 20 years studying this topic. Right. You know which one I'm saying? How do you explain that with the moment of Matt Lauer and Tom Cruise where he all of a sudden gets into a very elevated state, and this is a guy that studied body language with Scientology, Dianetics, L. Ron Hubbard, David Miscavige in that community, they teach this a lot.

[Chase Hughes]

Oh, yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And it's.

[Chase Hughes]

And it's good, right? Those teachings in Scientology are actually pretty good.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So what would you say for some people, like a Tony Robbins or Tom Cruise, would you say they're. They're not applying and it's working for them? And does this apply to everybody? Or it's different for different personalities?

[Chase Hughes]

Here's the. Here's the ultimate answer. They are at a point where they are so in control of themselves that no matter what their Behavior is they still exude authority. Makes sense because there's five elements to what makes authority in a human being, according to me anyway, and that is confidence, discipline. And discipline is not something other people can really see right away. But if you and I were sitting at an airport or something and I said, pat, just find somebody who's, who's super disciplined. You could do it within a few minutes. So discipline is something that we don't profile consciously, but we process it in a gut feeling way where we, we've had a conversation with somebody where they've read Those articles on LinkedIn of 15 Ways to Exude Powerful Body Language, like a CEO, sit and stand taller, give a firm handshake, make better eye contact, all of that kind of stuff. And. But we've, we've. You and I both met people that have all those traits, but something was off. Like after that conversation, it was like something was not right about this conversation because all that, the gut feelings didn't line up. And all of us are in the business of giving other people gut feelings, whether you want to be or not. It's, am I doing it right? So that's confidence, discipline, leadership, gratitude, and enjoyment. Those are the five things that, that trigger the human brain to think this person is an authority figure.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This person is an authority authority figure.

[Chase Hughes]

So it's a gut feeling. It's not a mint, it's not a conscious decision.

[Patrick Bet-David]

The last two are interesting. So I get gratitude, enjoyment. Enjoyment means this guy's enjoying his life, he enjoys what he does. What is, what is the, what is the benefit of having that energy overall.

[Chase Hughes]

Or just the enjoyment?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Just enjoyment specific.

[Chase Hughes]

The last one you shared, number one, it's the most magnetic human trait. It draws people to you.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So it's.

[Chase Hughes]

It. You're way more likely to be a leader if you have not enjoyment, as in you're celebrating shooting out confetti cans all day long.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Right.

[Chase Hughes]

But, but just enjoyment is. I'm enjoying the present moment and I think the future looks bright. Like I have a generalized expectation that things are going to be all right in the future.

[Patrick Bet-David]

There's something very attractive about that. And by the way, you said something, I want to go back to the matlar Tom Cruise, and I want to see you react to it because there's a body language one. But I want to stay on this. So, you know, you said there are people that you watch and be like, something's off, right? Yeah, something's different. I would have guys in sales that I would work with and I would watch them on stage and they were good on the big stage. But then behind closed doors something was off. You know, what they said didn't match what they were doing. There was a contradiction in the behavior. They were telling other people to go prospect, but they were not doing it. They were telling other people to work hard, but they were not doing it. And that, what's the word? Not hypocrisy. That contradiction was shown in the action. Can somebody say something long enough over and over and over again and not live it? Or will there eventually be a crack and a break in the individual?

[Chase Hughes]

I think there's always going to be a break, but it won't be physical. Like you're not going to, it's not going to be super obvious, but there's going to be an over time. There's going to be gut feelings that people get. Something is not right. And we, we call that incongruency. Right. So when somebody's, what I, what I tell every one of my clients is the way that you're behaving off camera when nobody's looking is going to affect every conversation that you have. So if you're, if I'm out there saying you need to be up at 4:30 in the morning, I better damn well be doing that. And if I'm, if I'm saying you need to do this with your life, I should be doing those things. And that's where you have any sales team. I've trained, I just finished a BMW training and the, the number one thing that we took away, we have an assessment. It's an authority assessment to tell how much authority you have in your life and exact points of where you're lacking. I'll even give it to you. You can put it in a PDF in the show notes or whatever. But it's an authority assessment and that was the biggest problem. Everybody that had low sales numbers had different behavior off camera so they weren't being themselves. And it sounds so stupid. Just like you hear in elementary school, well, just be yourself, honey. You just go out there and just be yourself. But it goes a little deeper than that. And it's just like you be yourself but what kind of self are you? You need to become something that you. That is okay with you showing out in public.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Did you ever read Psycho Cybernetics?

[Chase Hughes]

Oh yeah, it was my intro. My grandmother had that book.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, 40 million copies sold and most people don't even know about the book.

[Chase Hughes]

I know it, it was, I had a hardback first edition that my grandmother had.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Wow.

[Chase Hughes]

It Was amazing.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So what did your grandma do to. Did she play the role in you becoming you, or was she the influence?

[Chase Hughes]

Maybe. Maybe a pretty big influence. And her husband, my grandfather, was a senator. So there was a lot of kind of that slow movement and master your mind mindset is. Will dictate your outcome.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah. Because to me, you know, in the previous company I was a part of, there were when I was younger that my favorite speaker was the guy that would move fast and walk around and run around all this. And then the more I matured, I was no longer as in tune with the way he delivered his message. It didn't work anymore. It worked more when the other guy would speak and he would get up. Hi. So let me just start off by saying, had a great conversation with my wife earlier and da, da, da, da, da. And I remember. And this was the pace.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Right now he knew how to go when he was trying to make his point to go into. And let me tell you, this is one of the reasons when I think about when I was 28 years old, like, okay, there's a place for it.

[Chase Hughes]

But to me, I could tell you why.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Tell me.

[Chase Hughes]

I don't want to interrupt you, though.

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, go ahead. I'm curious.

[Chase Hughes]

So when we're young, especially you and I were both in the military. We're almost the same age. I'm 43. When I was in the military, I joined when I was 17. And I was in a state of I need to be pumped up. I need. And I saw the world through hierarchy. And that was just kind of a default mode for me. It just come out of high school and all this. So that's. If we draw a pendulum. And on the far end, on the. On the far right side, we have something called posturing, and on the far left we have collapse. And if I'm young enough to where I don't know the world yet, I will lean into collapse every once in a while. Even if I'm big, even if I have confidence I'm going to start collapsing. But what's attractive to me at a young age are people that posture. Because that looks like that's the opposite of where I am. It's not the middle of that pendulum. Because we haven't talked about the middle of the pendulum yet. But it looks. I'm. I'm over here on this side of the pendulum. The opposite looks like the solution. And that's a huge problem that a lot of people have is I'm going to go to the opposite of where I am the center of that between posturing and collapse is composure. And the more. The more we kind of start drifting there, we see that that's the answer, and we're more attracted to people that have that level of composure that we're seeking. We're. We're no longer seeking that posturing thing anymore. And the best example I could ever think of for this is Andy Griffith is like the ultimate example of what authority is. The confidence, the leadership, discipline, gratitude, enjoyment, and living in composure. And that's. You have guests on here every once in a while that are very high energy, very, very high, and they're a little bit out of composure. And you've had arguments on the show, which I've seen a couple of times, man. You had Alex Jones on here, I think, last year. And.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And. And don't forget the great Anthony Weiner. We. We know that.

[Chase Hughes]

I didn't see that.

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, that. That's the one you want to watch. You missed out, because that's the most entertaining one.

[Chase Hughes]

I'm gonna watch it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

It's a good body language one to watch.

[Chase Hughes]

I'll send you a report.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You will be entertained.

[Chase Hughes]

Okay. So I think when it comes down to composure, Andy Griffith is such a great example, and you are as well. And I'm not saying this to just blow smoke up your ass, but when those people. You can see it in many different episodes of yours that when people are here and they're freaking out, you're the one that says, all right, hold on. Hold on a second. And you kind of bring a little composure. Your composure is contagious. So that's when you tell leadership, is. Is this person's behavior contagious to the people around them? That's the measure of leadership.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I love that composure is contagious because that's good, right? Because you're able to lower the temperature if you have composure. And that makes a lot of sense to me. But let's go into a little bit of the personality side, and then I want to show a couple clips. I want to get your reaction. A couple of them are selfish. I just want to kind of see when you're studying the body language of, you know, Didion, when he's being asked about Tupac, how he reacts to it. I want to know what you say about it, but few things. So how do you tell apart between a psychopath and a sincere person? Because they're so close. Right.

[Chase Hughes]

It's tough.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So, you know, for me, I've been in sales for 25 years, and I have had Relatives that were bipolar, that you had to kind of have a 30 second conversation with them to kind of see what person is showing up today.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And it normally would take about 30 seconds for me to be like, okay, I know who's here today.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, got it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, cool. But over the years, when you go through different clients, different agents, employees, investors, you kind of have to size people up to see where they're at.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How do you do it?

[Chase Hughes]

All right, so I love that you asked this. So I get hired by companies a lot to do kind of employee screenings and all this kind of stuff. And there's a company out there, I can't say the name, but it's a medical company. They make medical instruments.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Employee screening.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. For C suite. They want to find people that, you know they're hiring a C suite. And it's. It's a big deal. I mean, it could be a billion dollar mistake. So they say, we want to screen out these guys that have extremely high narcissism. Socio. Sociopathy, psychopathy. So I developed this like five page checklist that they could kind of have somebody take this assessment that would trick someone into revealing some of those traits. And then this took me months and then I gave it to them and they're like, no, no, no, we mean just one. What's one question we can ask? So of course they want like, we want instant, immediate results. Like there's some kind of Harry Potter wizard spell that they can do that's going to reveal this person. So it took me a while, but we came up with the question. And the question is, what's the biggest thing you learned about yourself in that stressful time, that experience, that past relationship? Fill in the blank. And I mean, this would work on a, on a speed date. You know, what's one of the biggest thing you learned about yourself? And the answer is that specific to.

[Patrick Bet-David]

A difficult time, Is it specific to a difficult time? Or what's the most important thing you live to learn about yourself? Period.

[Chase Hughes]

Specific to a difficult time.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. Or a stressful time. So for some people are going to say, well, I learned that I have a tendency to overdo things, or I have, you know, I lost my temper, or I did something wrong, or I. And you'll get genuine lessons from most people. And when you have, and this is not some definitive test, so anybody listening? This is not some crazy perfect test, but with the other people, you're a lot more likely to hear things like, I learned that I shouldn't trust companies right away. I should Be a little more skeptical about what I'm getting myself into. I learned that I shouldn't make business deals unless I fully know somebody's background because people aren't very trustworthy. Most people aren't trustworthy. So you're going to hear like all kinds of blame shifting, even in the relationship question. Like, well, I learned that I shouldn't open myself to up to a partner right away because they're going to cheat on me, they're going to lie to me. So it's always somebody else's fault. And that became. That's. To this day, that's the first thing that they ask in interviews.

[Patrick Bet-David]

It's so. And have you heard what Elon Musk says his interview question is?

[Chase Hughes]

No.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Can you pull up Elon Musk's interview question? Elon Musk interview question. If you go on YouTube, just put that same thing in YouTube and he explains it in a video. Yeah, just do copy paste. It should come up and it's a short clip. I think it's that one Elon Musk talks about only two questions. You can tell me about your level. Okay. Okay, right there. Let's watch that one. If you want to skip the. Go for it.

[Chase Hughes]

Always the same. What did you ask?

[Patrick Bet-David]

I said, tell me the story of your life and, and the decisions that you made along the way and why you made them.

[Chase Hughes]

And then, and also tell me about some of the most difficult problems you worked on and how you solved them. And that, that, that question, I think.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Is very important because the people that really solved the problem, they know exactly how they solved it.

[Chase Hughes]

They know the little details.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And the people that pretended to solve the problem, they can maybe go one level and then they get stuck. So true.

[Chase Hughes]

I love that.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I love that. Right? But what you just said is very important because it goes back to tell me how you get a cold. Right? Kids, worldview. Worldview. Other people's fault. I didn't do it. I didn't get sick. Boom. You know, Tell me how you got sick. My immune system. I don't need enough vitamin.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I don't exercise as much as I used to. My cardio isn't as much. It's probably. I got to get back to working out. Okay. So. All right. This person takes responsibility.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

When you said this, you made me think about as somebody I had literally. I told the story on my neck yesterday, which, by the way, Chase, you would be great on the neck. But guy asked me a question about, hey, I'm hiring this person. This is what this person's saying to me, how should I handle this? Is this a good sign or not? And the question he's asking me on my neck is, you know, this guy, he's been wanting to work with me for all these years. And he sat there and he says, look, it didn't work out with this company, didn't work out with that company. But I know for a fact we're going to do this because you're such a great leader and I can't wait to work for you. I said, I'll never forget. I'm at Oheka Castle, which is a place in New York. I'd rented this place out. Rob, you can rent out Oika. Pull up Oika Castle. Nice place. They have great. The restaurant had great burrata cheese, which is the one thing I remember. And this one guy who we had recruited at that time comes up to me. It's 2:00 in the morning. We're done with cigars, food, we're having a good time. And he says, let me tell you my story. I used to be with this other insurance company, and those guys weren't as great leaders as the way you just handled this meeting. And I used to be with this other company for six years, and this other company with three years. And the more he's saying this to me and he finishes, I said, can I tell you something? He said, yes. I said, in the next two to four years, I will be the guy you will be speaking negatively about in another company, because all those three companies you just talked about, they all have great leaders. He said something about Primerica New York Life and Transamerica World Financial Group. I said, are you kidding me? They're all stacked with great leaders. I don't know what you're talking about. And the way he said it, it was just, I'm next, you know? So you're going on a date with a girl you watch to see how often they trash their ex. You will be the next one.

[Chase Hughes]

You're the next.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Right. And it's a but, but what else? Go back to the psychopath, because I've seen you psychoanalyze that one girl who was on Dr. Phil, if I'm not mistaken. What's the lady's name?

[Chase Hughes]

The psychopath woman.

[Patrick Bet-David]

The. The not woman girl, 14, 15 years old.

[Chase Hughes]

Aaron Cathy.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Aaron Cathy. Can you. Can you tell us about Aaron Cathy?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, she was. It's C, A, F, F ey. I think this. Can you bring up an image to make sure we got the right one that Patrick's Talking about.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And maybe even bring up the video with her and Dr. Phil. Right. Her interviews. I mean, I've seen her interviews. That is.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. Terrifying.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Terrifying.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. Truly. So this is psychopathy. That's pure psychopathy. And one thing I've noticed this is my opinion and other people may see something very similar. If you see somebody who's been happy their whole life.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yep.

[Chase Hughes]

You're going to see little crow's feet form right here. Even around the age of 19 or 20. This is not like later in life, you're going to see them start to etch on the face. Because that's a very common expression they make all day, throughout the day, very regularly. You see.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Hang on, Stay on this. That's very interesting. If you see somebody that's happy, can you go on the eyes, Rob, to see? Because I want you to be specific. Like, where do you see happiness shows? Where. If you can take the arrow to show what he's talking about.

[Chase Hughes]

Right there.

[Patrick Bet-David]

There.

[Chase Hughes]

The crow's feet on the out. Outer edge of the eye. Right here. Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And you'll see what, you'll see little.

[Chase Hughes]

Little wrinkles from very frequent smiling.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And that shows from frequent smiling. So this person's lived a happy life.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. Or they smile a lot.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Interesting.

[Chase Hughes]

Okay, so the. One of our things is a. Our emotional billboard is our forehead.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And we do this freeway, I got four or five. Freeway. I got five, six lanes.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. Mine's growing.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah.

[Chase Hughes]

So I got. There's this behavior we have called an eyebrow flash, which about 80% of people will return an eyebrow flash behavior without even knowing that they did it. That's how socially responsive we are. And notice we're. I mean, this is everything we're talking about with authority and leadership and all this. None of that has anything to do with language.

[Patrick Bet-David]

None of it has to do with language.

[Chase Hughes]

So it's. It's who we are, not what we say.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Right.

[Chase Hughes]

And so when it comes down to this eyebrow flash, it's this. When we raise our eyebrows while we're talking to somebody, maybe for emphasis. And we're kind of bringing our eyebrows up like this. So you'll see somebody who's very social. They'll have those lines on the middle of their forehead. This makes sense so far. All right, so what if I told you to make a skeptical facial expression? Like you're really skeptical about some information, Somebody selling you some. There it is. So the lower part of the eye.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay.

[Chase Hughes]

Wrinkles up.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Right.

[Chase Hughes]

And what about when you're hearing information that you really want to pay Close attention to. Your eyebrows will come down and squeeze together, which is yours. So you have those wrinkles. And this. This muscle right here is called the glabella. So that thing squeezes together and you'll see people over time. Yours is etched in there more than your forehead, more than anything else. So you're analytical, like taking in data, making sure you get it all. Process everything perfect. With our forehead being such an emotional billboard for connecting with other people, when we do this little eyebrow flash thing, you won't see those forehead wrinkles in psychopaths. I still haven't seen deep forehead wrinkles in a psychopath. That little connection, that emotional connection that we make to other people and how we express ourselves. And eyebrows coming up. And if I could, I'll tell you a story from Dr. Robert Hare. He's the number one researcher in psychopaths. And this is from his book on psychopathy. And he's. Dr. Hare is the one who wrote the checklist, the official, like, you're a psychopath checklist. So if you imagine. He says, I think Dr. Hare is only slightly wrong about one thing. He says that psychopaths are attracted to cities. And I think cities are more likely to manufacture psychopathy.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Tell me more.

[Chase Hughes]

So our brains are not designed. They haven't changed in 200,000 years. They're not designed for a gigantic tribe of people. So in order for us to survive in a city, empathy has to completely disappear. This is why we have things like the bystander effect, which maybe you've heard of it. So if there's people around a large crowd and you get stabbed or shot or anything, the more people around you, if you need help, the less likely you are to get help. So if I told you I was like, Patrick, on the way down here, I saw a guy that was getting robbed and somebody was stabbing him, and a guy was filming the whole thing with his phone. He was just standing there filming the whole entire thing happening. Would you think that guy's probably a psychopath, the one filming it?

[Patrick Bet-David]

No.

[Chase Hughes]

No expression. It's just him and the other guy, him and the guy getting killed, and he's filming the whole thing.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Just watching. What it made me think about is the lady who recorded George Floyd while the knee was on his neck and everybody had a camera on recording it.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And we have incidents like this with many different events.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. That might have been different because of the authority of the police officer and nobody wanting to get in a fight with a cop.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Right. So I don't want. Hey, get back get back, get back. Because if you do, you could go to jail and get in trouble. Right. But sometimes you'll see a fight taking place in high school and kids are beating up boys, beating up somebody. Everybody's got their phone out recording instead of wanting to jump in and help out.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So that's the example you're referencing.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay.

[Chase Hughes]

The death of empathy. So and the second part of that, a slight extension of that is social media is an artificial tribe. So we go back to focus authority, tribe and emotion. So now I'm tricking that mammal part of your brain into thinking that your tribe is bigger than it is. Those aren't real people. They're way out there. They're not in your community. You don't have to worry about them. But that I can trick your brain to believe whatever I want just by making you think that your tribal members believe in that thing. So I can manipulate your mammalian brain just by showing you things I can a. Now we go back to the drones. I can normalize something just by overexposing it and in front of lots of people, which goes back to the tribe again. But social media is an artificial tribe inside of our brain that even still is bigger than our brains are made to handle. They're made to handle small town, small environment, tribe of, of people. So when it comes down to the behavior of a psychopath, this story from Dr. Hare is, is the perfect way to describe with that what's going on inside of a psychopath's mind. So he talks about this psychopath and he's, he is in his apartment in a city one day and he decides, you know, I'm going to go get some, I'm gonna go get some tacos. So he leaves his apartment, he walks down the street, he's walking to a nearby place. As he's walking down to this taco place, he sees a car accident and a mom is screaming and crying and holding her baby that has passed away, maybe a 2 year old. And there's people on looking and crying and screaming with her. The police are there trying to help her and stuff like that. And as he's staring at this incident unfolding inside of his head, here's what you're hearing. I think I want lettuce. I'm gonna put lettuce on the tacos this time, maybe some sour cream. And then he turns and goes to get his tacos and then walks back by the scene again, looks at it again, comes back home and eats. And then that night before he's going to bed. He's getting ready for bed. He looks. He's looking in his bathroom mirror, going like this. Just trying to mimic all of those facial expressions of people grieving and being sad by the car accident. Just rehearsing those facial expressions. It's terrifying. It's terrifying to understand that there's no empathy in that person. So that's a pure psychopath.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So. Pure psychopath. Are you born that way? Because when you think about this, again, I keep quoting this guy over and over again, who. He was the last guy, the first guy that would interview people. Jim Clemente. I don't know if you know who Jim Clemente is. He'd be the first guy to interview. This guy was an FBI guy that. He was an FBI profiler who would interview somebody who just killed their spouse.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And he'd be the first person to do it. And I asked him a question. I said, so what causes these guys to do it? The psychopaths, specifically. I asked him about serial killers. He says, genetics loads the gun. Personality and psychology aim experience, pulls the trigger from your experience. That's what he said. So again, genetics loads the gun. Personality and psychology aims life experiences, pulls the trigger.

[Chase Hughes]

That's the most beautiful way I've ever heard it described. Absolutely. So you can have tons of genetic markers that are just loaded up, ready to go in the gun, but they never get triggered because of life experiences. You're not going through any trauma. There's no huge stress. And stress is not just psychological. You can have physical stress, like getting. Getting sick as a kid, getting sick as a baby can make those genes start to express themselves. They can really make. Make our genes do weird stuff. We have babies that are born in the winter are more likely to have those genes express themselves because the mom might be sick during the childbirth, the baby might be sick in the younger days. That's not some guarantee or anything, but there's. It's definitely well researched that Winterborn babies can have genetic disadvantages when it comes to the brain.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Can a psychopath be saved?

[Chase Hughes]

I don't think so.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, Got it. So the. The. So.

[Chase Hughes]

So when a psychopath goes to therapy, what the therapist works on them with, works with them on is here's how to ask better questions. Here's how to make a face like. Like you look like you're interested in something someone's saying.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Right.

[Chase Hughes]

It's all just, let me teach you how to fake your way in. So he's a. He's a normal life?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah. I had. I had a. I. I Track birthdays. When's your birthday, by the way? What month are you?

[Chase Hughes]

February. February 23.

[Patrick Bet-David]

23. Okay. No, February 16th is Michael. Sixth is Reagan. My wife's 14th. My son is the first.

[Chase Hughes]

So all February.

[Patrick Bet-David]

All February.

[Chase Hughes]

Wow.

[Patrick Bet-David]

A lot of good Februarys. So, you know, I'm just trying to see if there's any kind of one of the things I saw about profile, and I don't know if I would even categorically put them in psychopath, but while you're in business, you follow these guys. They're so good at making others feel sorry for them.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And sympathizing. You don't know what I went through. If you only knew, you know, like, you know, you know, certain people don't like compliments. It's just like, don't flatter me. I don't want compliments. It's just, I'm good. Leave me alone. I mean, if it comes from good people that are close to you, I'll take it. But it's like, I'm good.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Don't feel sorry for me. We grew up in the never show hurt. You know, my dad was the complete opposite side of that. But whenever you see somebody that is really always trying to make people around and they're so good at it.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

At how to get people to say, what a poor guy, man. Poor you. I can't believe she went through this. Unbelievable, right? And it works in so many different places. Until you meet somebody that's like, yeah. No.

[Chase Hughes]

So I, I, I call this fogging, and I use the acronym F, O G. And it's fear, obligation and guilt are the three master tools of these people. And this is psychopaths, this is extreme high end narcissists, sociopaths, some people with borderline stuff. But if you're seeing a pattern of fear, obligation, and guilt. I did a whole video on my YouTube channel about this. Like, how to deal with a narcissist. What to say. But you have to recognize that I. Either I'm going to consciously choose to stay in this relationship, or I'm out.

[Patrick Bet-David]

No. And by the way, it's not easy to do so. But if, if, if you, if you accept it and you stay in it, they control you. And it's a lot of pain to go through while you're in it. Nowadays, more than ever, the brand you wear reflects and represent who you are. So for us, if you wear a future looks, bright hat or a valuetainment gear, you're telling the world, I'm optimistic. I'm Excited about what's going to be happening. But you're a free thinker, you question things, you like, debate. And by the way, last year 120,000 people got a piece of Future Looks Bright geared with valuetainment. We have so many new things. The cufflinks are here. New future looks bright. This is my favorite, the green one. Just yesterday somebody placed an order for a hundred of these. If you watch the PBD podcast, you got a bunch to choose from. White ones, black ones. If you, if you smoke cigars and you come to our cigar lounge, we have this high quality lighter cutter and a holder for the cigars. We got sweaters with the valuetainment logo on it, we got mugs, we got a bunch of different things. But if you believe the future looks bright, if you follow our content and what we represent with valuetainment with with PVD podcast, go to vtmerch.com and by the way, if you order right now, there's going to be a special VT gift insight just for you. So again, go to vtmerch.com, place your order, tell the world that you believe the future looks bright. Now let's go back to. We talked about psyOps at the beginning and we've gone to a bunch of different personalities right now. You know when you think about CIA and you see what happened with the fellow who was the isis, the truck drives into New Orleans on the first and same thing happened, not the same things. An event happens in Vegas, Matt Liversburg and it's like, wait a minute, why would he be capable of doing that? Guy sends me a message on LinkedIn. This is, I've known this guy. This is about Matt. This is about the guy that was a green bray. And I think Matt even did a show, History Channel show with Tim Kennedy. I don't know if you saw that or not.

[Chase Hughes]

So I saw a clip on X, right?

[Patrick Bet-David]

I saw a clip as well on X. That's what I saw. So he sends me a message, this guy and he says, look, I served with this guy. Matt and I were stationed in Germany together. We were both on special forces teams. Our teams trained and worked a lot together. I spent four weeks with him in Bordeaux and in language training program. We drank Bordeaux pretty much every night. His wife came and visit and he says he was a good man, a leader, mentor and a father. I've spent time with him and his wife. This makes no sense to me. He had to have been targeted. Okay, A lot of people are saying this about him now. Luigi Mangione Boom, boom. Everything is good, right?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But he's missing the last 90 days. So you know when he went and what his motive was. He had some stuff because he followed libertarians. He followed 70 people on Twitter. I was one of them. He followed. But the range of people he followed.

[Chase Hughes]

Are, oh, you must be involved.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, but the range of people you. You studied, you would look at and say, hey, okay, those are guys you follow that teach independent critical thinking. They're not like victimhood, let me tell you. They're after you. It's not fair, all this other stuff, right? So, you know, you hear MK Ultra movie came out. MK Ultra, not a good movie, but somebody needs to do a good movie on that, I think could do well. Yeah, he follows Bobby Kennedy. He follows a bunch of different people, right? Bret Weinstein, we've had him on. He and I spoke the other day. Interesting people that this guy follows. John McAfee is definitely one of the interesting ones. We had him on like 8 years ago. But you see these patterns with events like this happening. John F. Kennedy, where you hear the shooter comes out and takes a shot and takes out. Wait, how did that happen? What do we not know about CIA and their capabilities? What do we not know? Because what we do know is the stuff that we read about. And you're a guy that's worked intelligence, you know, not intelligence. You did some warfare, spy warfare. And you're right, you're training these types of things. The, the methods. I think there's even a video about you that you made that 25 way. CIA, you know, trains their agents, whatever may be, but what is the capability of CIA and their training that we have that we don't know about?

[Chase Hughes]

I wouldn't. I wouldn't even say it's CIA. I would say the. The agency that I've seen do a lot more internationally is dia.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay?

[Chase Hughes]

But when it comes to MK ultra, this was a scare. MK ULTRA was a result of people being terrified. This happened in Korea when these American prisoners would go on videotape and say, I hate the United States. It's a bad country. I've renounced citizenship and all this kind of stuff. And it was terrifying. And that became MK ultra, was the beginning of a psychological arms race is what it was. So they started all these experiments to find a truth serum. So they used hypnosis and LSD and all kinds of other drugs. And it was just bizarre. Some of this stuff bring up. I want. I just want. I want you to see the description of this. Can you bring up Project Midnight Climax, you heard of this? So Sidney Gottlieb, who's the director at the time, is getting prostitutes to drug random dudes with lsd. And the scientists are behind a one way mirror watching them in a hotel room. This is in, I think it was in San Francisco.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Hires prostitutes to give LSD and then on the other side there's somebody watching it.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, so continue.

[Chase Hughes]

And I don't that, that's a lot of what we know is just right there. And they're trying to do all these experiments and then they're using hypnosis. And then this guy named George Estabrooks comes on the scene. He's a professor at this university called Colgate University in New York. And he wrote a few books about some of this stuff. Yeah, that's him. So I got access to this guy's Dr. Esterbrook's personal files that were never deleted or part of the. There was what's called a destruction order from the agency right before all these secrets were about to come out. There's something called the Church committee that was going to take all this stuff out. But right here this guy had a plan with J. Edgar Hoover to hypnotize and split the personality of a German submarine captain and send this guy back into his port and torpedo the entire German fleet. Incredible plan. So they were experimenting with this personality modification, splitting people. And I can send you all these documents if you, you're interested in it or if you want to just throw them in a link for the show.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So definitely interested in it. So whatever you send, we'll post it below. But personality modification.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, splitting personality.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Splitting.

[Chase Hughes]

So there's two versions of a, of a person that can be kind of turned on or turned off. So he does it to army officers, called this guy that he named Jones. And there was a Jones A and a Jones B so he could send Major Jones through enemy territory. But the other personality had all these national secrets. So if Jones A was ever captured, Jones B won't ever come out because the code word and the little activation technique is not being done to bring out that B personality. Does that make sense? So that's a lot of the stuff that was going on and with a lot of MK Ultra led into this new era of propaganda. And this guy comes onto the scene. His name is Edward Bernays. You're familiar? Okay, so he invents propaganda in the United States. He's the region that we eat. We think bacon is part of breakfast. He's the reason that margarine is yellow. He was the reason women smoked Virginia slims in the 60s, 70s, 80s. There's a million things. He's the reason that the Department of War changed to the Department of Defense. So all of these tiny little things got made.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Possibly the greatest CMO of all time.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, big time. So he also invented the term public relations so that. So propaganda didn't, didn't confuse people. Very interesting guy, probably a bad dude. He's also Sigmund Freud's nephew in a, in a weird turn of events. Yeah. And it, you don't really see that very often on the. When you read about him. So it gets into this, it gets, it, it kind of evolves. And the CIA is going crazy on this mind control stuff. Can we program assassins? This is, this is the end, end result of this. So I'll tell you what's on record now is they were doing experiments to see if a person could be programmed to kill on command with one of these alter ego identities.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Edward Bernays.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, no, he's not. This is, this is CIA and George Esterbrooks. And these are in, these are actually in official documents that were Freedom of Information act released. So they're doing this huge experiment and they want to see can I get a person to go into a room, pull out a loaded gun or one that they think is loaded during these experiments and just fire it at another person. So they start these experiments and they're successful. And this they, they officially quote, ended these experiments just a few years before Bobby Kennedy got killed in San Francisco by Sirhan Sirhan.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Just coincidentally, that's when they stopped it.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, right.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, that makes sense.

[Chase Hughes]

And Sirhan Sirhan has no memory of the event. He was. And if you look at where Bobby Kennedy was shot, he was shot under the armpit and kind of from behind all the bullet holes are actually listed out there. This is from our own government's investigation. It just kind of doesn't really match up very well. But Sirhan has no memory of the event to this day. He says he has no memory. And if you talk. Have you had Bobby on?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, of course.

[Chase Hughes]

Okay. If you talk to him about this, he, he believes that Sirhans should be.

[Patrick Bet-David]

He wrote a book about this whole thing. Yeah, yeah.

[Chase Hughes]

I did a documentary about it on my YouTube channel and talked about the hypnosis and how it could be done step by step, how somebody could have done this. I got some of the top hypnotists in the world to come onto that little documentary. It's a micro Documentary but talking about what are the steps that could be taken to get someone to a place where they can do this. So this brings us into pcp, not the drug. The PCP stands for a three step process that if I can, if I can modify three things in your life, I can get you to do anything. If I can modify perception, context and permission. Pcp. And if I just look at that.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I'm again, so perception, perception.

[Chase Hughes]

I change the way that you're seeing what's going on right now, which means kind of a domino effect that now I can modify the context and how you see the situation, time. And then I get context, context. So how are you seeing this? Like everybody who is, let's say if we're on a, if we're in a business meeting, nobody's going to strip their clothes off and get naked. Right.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You've not been enough business meetings.

[Chase Hughes]

But I haven't been in yours. Give me the last p. Permission.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Permission. Okay.

[Chase Hughes]

So it's perception, context and permission. So the moment that we get home from that business meeting and we standing in our bathroom, the context is different. So of course I'm going to take my clothes off because I'm getting in the shower. So any behavior is tolerable under some circumstances. And all the, the only thing I've got to manipulate in your life.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Right.

[Chase Hughes]

Is the context. So if I can hypnotize you, I can get you to have another personality. I change your perception of what's going on, I modify context and I can get you to do whatever I want. There's an, there's an attorney in Washington state who did this to his clients for women to get naked into his office. And people say, oh, you can't be made to do anything against your will under hypnosis. Well, it is within their will because it's within that context. So he would hypnotize these women in his office and say, you just got home from a long day at work, you throw your keys in the bowl, you walk into the bathroom, you've got a glass of wine and now it's time to get and get into the shower. So now that we get get naked because the context changed. If I can modify perception and context, I can justify anything. I can get you to do anything that I want.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So where are you going with this? You're saying the possibility of MKUltra to get them in a state to cause them to kill someone.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That nothing in the history of their lives, there's never been a pattern that this person was capable of doing something like this independently. No felony, no criminal record. All of a sudden this person decides to take their lives.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

They're able to get somebody to that point of doing something like that.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. But just this is a perfect reflection back to the Milgram experiment. None of all those were good, decent people. They were school teachers and doctors and all that. And they committed murder in under an hour. Just because the perception of what's going on changed. The context is way different and there's permission from an authority figure to do it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So when you. When you were telling a story on MK Ultra, you brought somebody up. Who did you bring up? You brought up just now. Yeah.

[Chase Hughes]

Sidney Gottlieb, Dr. George Estabrooks.

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, you brought up somebody that you said, Sirhan Sirhan. And who were we just talking about that actually did this. So do. So do you. When you see somebody like a Matt Liversberger on what happened.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And Sean Ryan and them. And Sam read the email that he sent on the Sunday. Right. I don't know what the day was.

[Chase Hughes]

Yes.

[Patrick Bet-David]

On previous day. Do you think that's a case of this or. No, that's a different case. He was going through challenging times and he wanted to kind of make a statement with it.

[Chase Hughes]

I think it's a different case.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You think what is a case of MK Ultra that could be a possibility of MK Ultra?

[Chase Hughes]

Bobby Kennedy.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What else?

[Chase Hughes]

Maybe this Tesla thing that's going on, this Tesla bombing that happened.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Oh, but, but that's Matt Leversberger. So you think he could be.

[Chase Hughes]

Could be a victim of something like.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That, but could be a victim of MK Ultra?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, but it. I've worked on deployments with dudes like this, Spec ops dudes, and I was in Expeditionary Combat Command for the last half of my career. You don't. No one. No one. Absolutely no one that would make it to that community if they were going to want to cause a bunch of damage, is going to throw a bunch of gas and fireworks in the back of a. A solid steel vehicle and think that they're going to do a bunch of damage? Nobody. His training is a thousand times above that. He could have done a lot more damage. Anybody that's been Special Operations Command or anything like that as tons of education in that stuff to dissect it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You said you. The ID that came out, right? These different things that came out.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Psychoanalyze it. I mean, what, what, what do you think happened there?

[Chase Hughes]

I don't know. I'm no expert possibilities, like maybe it could be this.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Maybe it could be this. Maybe. It could be this.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. I do know that Teslas can be summoned. They can't be driven without someone with their eyes open, you know, because they'll like, have you ever driven one? So they'll like, they'll kind of ping you if you are looking away, if your eyes are closed. But they can be summoned without anyone in the car or they can be summoned to a place. And I think if this guy was dead before the vehicle pulled up, that's the only way that it could have been done. And it's the only vehicle, maybe a Tesla might be the only vehicle that you can summon. I'm not very well educated on which vehicles can do that, but it definitely looks like that. And if you've ever. Have you ever fired a 50 cal. Not the big boy, but like a 50 cal pistol that's like a three foot fireball that would have shown up in a video. That's a giant fireball.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Huge. What are you saying?

[Chase Hughes]

That would have shown up. So like if, if he did it right then that would have definitely been in a video where you could see it through the windows. That's a massive. That's a big round.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, so let me, let me go to a different one. Here is Proxy. Okay. We've had a lot of, you know, in, in siblings. Proxy could be siblings instigating a fight. If there's three siblings, one instigated fights between the other two.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, right.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Hey, I think he was wearing your socks today. I think he wore your cologne today. Hey, you know, what do you think about the fact that this, you know, sometimes I don't think he appreciates you. Whatever the proxies that happen at siblings level. Right. And then it happens in company sports teams. Coach just doesn't, you know, I don't know why he doesn't put you in the game more. I think you should. And boom. Friction there. You move down one more. I got another spot to move up Proxy. At a higher level of countries that create proxy wars and instigate additional. Like even right now, hey, there could be a potential nuclear attack and Russia is going to be behind it. Oh my God. Russia's really going to be behind it. But it's not really Russia. It's really internally being done. That's using this or using that. How do you. How do you. If any way, how do you size those up and how are those done?

[Chase Hughes]

This is. Now we're talking at the level of like statecraft.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Right.

[Chase Hughes]

Stuff and not really psyops. I just don't I don't really trust. If I hear multiple media outlets using the exact same messaging instantaneously, I don't trust it. So that's my go to number one. Number one, if I'm hearing the same exact reporting from multiple different sources, it's automatic that something is being forced into the news instead of the news is reporting. So that's what I teach my kids. Are you hearing repeating? Are you hearing reporting? Those are two different things. And have you seen that one? Have you seen that compilation of all those news?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Of course, yeah.

[Chase Hughes]

Terrifying.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah.

[Chase Hughes]

I think it was Sinclair or something like that.

[Patrick Bet-David]

It's being fed from the top to them. So let's go through a couple of these clips here. Rob, if you can pull up. First one I want to go through is Diddy. So here is Diddy Combs. He is on Breakfast Club. And Charlemagne, the God is asking a question. A lot of people I've interviewed a lot of people that claim Diddy took Tupac out. Okay. He's the one that killed him. Now, again, that's claims that have been made. Right. I just want you to give your feedback on his body language. When Charlemagne asks, there's a documentary out that says you may been behind the Tupac murder. And then watch how did he respond and what commentary you would have on this? Go ahead, Rob. Now, it was this documentary that claimed. Which we know wasn't true. Yeah, yeah. Chad said we don't talk about things that are nonsense. We don't even entertain nonsense, my brother.

[Chase Hughes]

So we not even gonna even go there.

[Patrick Bet-David]

With all due respect, but I appreciate you as a journalist asking.

[Chase Hughes]

Thank you.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Because you listen, seven years ago, I'd have been like, yo, did you hire somebody to kill pac? But no, you do it like a journalist. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, we wouldn't even get.

[Chase Hughes]

Into nonsense like that. You know what I'm saying?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Which we never believed, by the way. Yeah. Thank you.

[Chase Hughes]

All right, so do me a favor. Just mute it and keep it on kind of a repeat. So some of these behaviors. Just so I can show you what some of these things are. So the first thing here we have mouth covering and adapting. So when someone is taking control of things in their environment. So, like, if I sat down here and I was, like, scooting these things back and kind of pushing them over, aligning them, it's unnecessary movement. So we're seeing a lot of unnecessary movement. Mouth covering is the one of the first behaviors that we learn when we are feeling the need to withhold information, not saying deceptive but withholding information. So what do you think? When have you ever seen a kid drop the F bomb for the first time in front of their parents or something? They're instinctively reaching up to cover their mouth. So it's built into us. That behavior is built into us. So right after that little movement towards the beginning, you're going to see him pushing into his face. This is called facial denting. And this is a pacification gesture. And it's meant to kind of burn off excess adrenaline from a high stress question or a high stress scenario. Then we see a lot more hand to head, hand to head, hand to head. And one. So all of those will factor up to a potentially very deceptive statement. But there's no deception when somebody's just saying, oh, we're not. I don't want to talk about that. You didn't ask me any direct question. I didn't give you any. Or you asked a direct question. I gave you a nonsense answer or a non answer. That looks a lot more avoidant than deceptive. Because deceptive would be absolutely not. I had nothing to do with it. Right. So the avoidant. Look at that. My video was unrecommended right there at the end.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Was it? Yeah. Interesting. So in this case, if you're watching this, what do you think?

[Chase Hughes]

Like, there's one more thing here. What's that towards the end? This is called rapid reaction. So like if I'm looking this way and then you started talking and the moment you started talking, my head jerks over to you. So this is an orientation. It happens. Right. Right at the three quarter mark. Right. So right when he started speaking. So he's kind of jerking his head back towards him. So that fear increases the speed of our body. So if you think about the difference between.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Increases the speed of our body.

[Chase Hughes]

Let's. If you. The difference between a Chihuahua hearing a noise in the house and a Rottweiler hearing a noise in the house, how fast their heads come up and orient toward what's going on. The Chihuahuas a lot faster. Way faster. Because they have to be more scared. So fear speeds up our bodies.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So you're calling Diddy a Chihuahua. I mean, he's going to be upset about that.

[Chase Hughes]

No, I didn't, I didn't do that.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You just called Diddy.

[Chase Hughes]

For the record, I did not say Diddy is scared.

[Patrick Bet-David]

He is scared. That's why he's reacting the way he. I don't mean by the animal side. I mean the fact that he is scared. That's why he's moving faster.

[Chase Hughes]

Yes.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Interesting.

[Chase Hughes]

So there's a fear response in our brain.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah.

[Chase Hughes]

So There were probably 10 or 12 little indicators there of high stress and.

[Patrick Bet-David]

High fear in this case. What would your conclusion come up with? I'm trying to figure out what happened to my guy Tupac, man. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

[Chase Hughes]

It looks extremely avoidant. It looks like there is information there that it is. It's what's called guilty knowledge. They may. A person may be involved with the crime, may have committed a crime, may have witnessed a crime, but they have some kind of knowledge about the guilt of a crime. But there's. That's what we look for for a guilty knowledge.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, let's go to the next one, Rob. The next one is. I showed this clip to Jim Jordan, and I don't know if I'm sure you know who Jim Jordan is. You know, so I. There's a clip of President Bush and those guys getting an envelope. Okay. And.

[Chase Hughes]

Oh, yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So I played it for Jim Jordan and he is sitting there. He's like, I don't know what's going on. What do you think? Isn't I. It's the best clip to watch because he is oblivious when he doesn't know what's taking place here. And again, most people don't. But I wonder, if you watch this, what do you think is really going on here? Everybody's being handed an envelope. Everyone reacts in a different way. Hillary Clinton acts like a pro. Obama acts like a pro. Jeb Bush and Barbara do not. Jeb Bush acts like an amateur here. Rob, if you want to go ahead and play the clip, go for it.

[Chase Hughes]

Like that. Base.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What's going on here?

[Chase Hughes]

It's bizarre.

[Patrick Bet-David]

It's bizarre.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. And it's. Only some of the people apparently got these envelopes, right. And you're seeing a lockdown reaction. None of them are showing any curiosity or interest in it. And it's. It's an immediate bodily lockdown afterwards. You've noticed that except for Jeb. Jeb had some fear. So that was a. So he. Jeb's breathing shifted in from his abdomen, which is comfort to his chest, which is a high stress.

[Patrick Bet-David]

For context. This. This is at their father's funeral, right? This is at. Rob, is this George Bush Sr's funeral that this is being handed out to. And even mother shows it to Jeb and Jeb Reass and George Bush. Look at his lips, the mouth movement. But he's still holding it together.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. Did George Bush get one, too?

[Patrick Bet-David]

I don't know if he did.

[Chase Hughes]

So typically when you see this lip compression, which you probably. I think we saw it in Hillary, Lip compression is almost always indicative of withholding. So withholding an opinion, withholding information. So you see, you ask somebody like, oh, how do you like your new job? And they go, oh, it's great. So you see this withholding something, something else needs to come up.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Let's start asking people about that. How do you like your job if you make that face. Look, maybe you got to go find a different job. It's a good one.

[Chase Hughes]

Let's do. We should take a camera and interview all your guys.

[Patrick Bet-David]

There's about 32% of your guys are not happy. They want to go get another job. I've got to let them go, guys. Go find a different place. But so, so if, if that's the case, lip reading, okay, the, the lip, the, the one you're talking about, does that mean George Bush didn't like his job of being a president? Or does it mean George Bush is not happy being there right now?

[Chase Hughes]

Maybe there's information being withheld. So withheld opinions about something. It just like this. But when you see it with the chin, when the chin comes up a lot into the motion, that's usually grief. And the cool study that was done here after 911 in New York, New Yorkers who would normally not communicate in any way shared this facial expression and this well documented. It's fascinating to me. And they would look at each other and go. So they renamed this downward frown with the chin movement. This muscle right here is called our chin boss and is as what's called a shared grief expression. So we may be seeing some grief there because his was downturned. And I think we see some pretty tight lips on Hillary while she's looking at. What is it? Is it supposedly some kind of threat from the Skull and Bone Society or secret.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Is that what you read about?

[Chase Hughes]

I don't know.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay. I don't know. And the only thing with Hillary is if you look at the way Hillary. Rob, if you want to turn off the audio, just put the way Hillary picks it up, I don't know why she lifts it. If you lift it, the people behind you can't see it. So if you press play with Hillary, so that part is fine, but with the envelope, either she has a tough time, like she needs glasses, or she needs to get a surgery done with her eyes. But look at that. So the four people behind you can all see what you're looking at. And then if you look at it, it's got to be one word or two words.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So it's not like a sentence, it's gotta be short. Dear Hillary, you're amazing. We will be having dinner later on tonight at Capitol Grill in the corner room.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Would you like steak, lobster or chicken? It's not that.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. It can't be a lot of words at all. Or it's boring. And maybe everybody got an envelope and this is some cherry picked thing. And so this could be. I've done no investigation.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This could even be nothing based on the body language. The only person that to me is, I'd love to see Jeb Bush play poker. I mean, look at that.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, that'd be tough.

[Patrick Bet-David]

It'd be great. It'd be entertaining.

[Chase Hughes]

But let's always think of context. When we're looking at human behavior, we always want to think of clusters and context. I want to look for multiple signs. And in the context we're seeing, I think his dad's coffin is going by. So we are seeing a high stress. We're seeing him breathe into his chest. So some of this may be on the Bush side. Some stress about the funeral.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I think on the Bush. I agree. Like, I think that to me can be seen because he's not looking at the envelope. So. But if you look at mom and son, youngest son, they have the same reaction. Mouth open, is shocked.

[Chase Hughes]

Which mom. Laura.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, I'm sorry, wife. And, and wife and President Bush, the son's wife and Jeb, their reaction is shock. With the mouth being open.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. Hers is, is like, I don't know what to do about this. There's an immediate postural shift back, like showing that to Jeb there and then turning back to George.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You know, it's another thing that's very interesting is that when you, when you are in limelight, everyone is judging you. Everyone, everybody's got their eyes on you. It's constant. And this is at the highest level. You had a job that only 40, what, five people have had the job. I don't know what the number is because Trump's 45 and 47. It's 46 people have had the job, let's just say so, all eyes on you. Good, bad, ugly. You can't hide anywhere and you learn.

[Chase Hughes]

To lock it down.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How do you learn that?

[Chase Hughes]

I think the first thing I, there's, there's two ways. Number one is I don't think you get to that position without being able to lock your down early on. Yeah, that's right. You don't make it right. Number two, they give them prescription drugs that are non psychoactive to lock their behavior down and make their behavior more smooth and slow. A great example would be something like Metoprolol, which is a beta blocker. So like a 100 milligram extended release metoprolol. They also call it the stage fright drug or the public speaking drug, but it's just a heart and blood pressure medication. Propranolol is great. Beta blockers is what you give CEOs and stuff when they have a big speech to go make. This is what you give to the, the Steve Jobs when he's got the. To release the new iPhone on stage and that kind of thing.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What is it called?

[Chase Hughes]

Propanolol or Metoprolol. They're all different classes of beta blockers. Which are, they regulate heart rate and blood pressure. So they don't. They're non psychoactive. So not only you don't need them for the rest of your life, they help you to memorize those behaviors without being dependent on the drug. Like a Xanax that does have to be present for you to be calm.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So you could take this a few times and then you can. The effects could be permanent.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Have you ever taken it?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How did it work?

[Chase Hughes]

I've given it to my clients. Well, I've had the clients get it from a doctor, but they are fantastic. So it lowers your natural fear response rate so your heart's not beating fast, so your brain is calming down a little bit more. And the second drug that they give them on top of this is something called methylcarbamol, which is a non drowsy muscle relaxer. And it just kind of relaxes the overall physiology of the body. So after a month or two, these people, their bodies are learning these new behavioral pathways.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Rob is already ordering 48 tablets. Rob already place an order.

[Chase Hughes]

They're good. A funny thing is, if you study pharmacology, the interesting thing about the methylcarbamol is that we don't know how it works yet. We know that it works, but we don't really know how. But we know it's not a psychoactive drug. So your brain's not dependent on that to learn how to be comfortable. So when I have a lot of clients that are high stress, they have high social anxiety, I will have them talk to their psychiatrist or their doctor and get that propranolol or metoprolol and the methyl carbamol, which is the muscle relaxer, non drowsy it's good stuff. Robaxin is the, like the let me brand name.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You probably indirectly just sold so much of this, you don't even know. There's probably numbers of orders being made right now.

[Chase Hughes]

I should have got an affiliate link.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I should have gotten. No, because people that, you know, wish they had the. For somebody that's in there. I'll never forget when Joe and I were doing a podcast and we talk about how you handle negative comments and angel says, yeah, but you can't compare to us because we already have so much of it that it's like at this point you're, you know, you're going through it. A comedian who has spoken God knows how many times on stage. You know, if you don't learn about this, you ain't going to make it in comedy for 10 plus years if you don't learn how to control your emotions, how to handle the stress that comes with the public speaking. Same thing as well, interviews, all that stuff. But even in sales. But if the average person doesn't know you're saying this could help them lower.

[Chase Hughes]

The temperature and anxiety without being psychoactive to where you're going to need it for the rest of your life.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So it's not like this is a. What's the. The Prozac or Zoloft. This isn't that.

[Chase Hughes]

Nope.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Interesting.

[Chase Hughes]

And it helps with that stage fright and stuff. And the, the thing that. This is going to sound really cheesy if we have time. Do we have like five minutes?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, go for it.

[Chase Hughes]

Visualizing is the, the biggest mistake most people make is because we're visualizing and predicting the future all day, every day, all the time. And most people are visualizing things going bad and getting better at visualizing, number one and getting some training in how to do that better. And number two, deliberately visualizing results that you want is proven for Olympic athletes. It's proven for Formula one race drivers. The most incredible thing you'll ever see when it comes to visualizing is. Can we bring up one more video? Is Blue look up Blue Angels flight briefing. Have you seen this?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Do you know Jim Murphy?

[Chase Hughes]

No, but go for it. See one of them.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah.

[Chase Hughes]

You just need to kind of pull to about the halfway. Oh, I guess that second video had it where it said chair flying or something. But you got to get a premium YouTube subscription for them.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I get paid next Friday. It's. It's. Once it comes, we'll. We'll add it to the right expense for the section High Alpha. The diamond will be in from in front of the crowd for the burner.

[Chase Hughes]

To 70 out of the burning 270. We'll run a crowd right behind the.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Crowd with airspeed calls. And the Delta will be in from.

[Chase Hughes]

Behind the crowd for the delta roll.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Is the pole rolling out?

[Chase Hughes]

I got goosebumps watching this break. Cross right, chump.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Tootsie.

[Chase Hughes]

Take it in.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Puig. We go vertical five.

[Chase Hughes]

Five.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Smoke up. Pull. Up we go.

[Chase Hughes]

Unbelievable, man. Sick.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Vertical 4, 5.

[Chase Hughes]

Horizon 75. Easing power idle. So I was showing this to my kids because I kept telling them, you need to visualize what you want. And they're like, well, that's for babies. That's for babies. Like, no, this is. The highest performing individuals on planet Earth are doing this. Your seal teams, your Blue angels, your top surgeons who are about to go through a surgical procedure that's going to be 10, 15 hours long, replacing some vital organs or spinal cord fragments and stuff. Everyone who's at the very, very top of the top does this. Does this visualization. Everybody's doing the visualization. They do it on purpose. I think that's the difference.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What prompted you to say this? Is it because we were speaking about public speaking, fears, and then you went into this. Why did you transition into this story?

[Chase Hughes]

If you're. If you're visualizing yourself failing on stage 50 times the night before and then you take these drugs. It's not a magic pill. If you've been visualizing yourself acting like and having bad results. So this visual visualizing has to come with it. It's got to be part of the package.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Do you have an exercise of not having any facial reaction? Are you mentally yourself aware that you don't want to have any mental. Any facial reaction when you're speaking?

[Chase Hughes]

Just for. I want to have lots of facial movement while I'm speaking. What do you mean you.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, you don't show a lot of reactions. Right. You're very stoic. Is that intentional? No, it's not.

[Chase Hughes]

I always thought I was more expressive.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You're being sarcastic.

[Chase Hughes]

What an asshole.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This is intentional, right? No, stop it.

[Chase Hughes]

I try. You know, when we go through Stop.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Man, I wish I could mean out.

[Chase Hughes]

I wish I could airdrop you a video.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This is a psyop, Rob. This is because you're sitting there so stoic, and I'm like, is that a. Is that a learned skill for you or is this your natural state you're always in?

[Chase Hughes]

It may be, but I thought I was a little more expressive. So.

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, I think. I think. What gives you a Certain authority, which I like, is the fact that you're stoic. You're here and that's power.

[Chase Hughes]

Maybe more measured, maybe that's a better word.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But you know, because I think sometimes it's kind of like this, you know, a guy. So you got a girl comes to the table. There's five guys, okay. They're all 17 years old. Hot girl shows up and she's like, oh my God. Oh my. Look at her. And one guy's just sitting there. Hi, what's your name? Right?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And she's kind of like, thank God one of these five isn't freaking nervous as hell. What's your name? My name is Chase Hughes. I am very stoic, but Patrick is an asshole. How are you doing?

[Chase Hughes]

That was my line. That was my line in high school.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That was my line. No, but the point. Point is the over reaction to things you don't have. And I think that's good.

[Chase Hughes]

Maybe it's a composure.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I think that's very good. I think that's what we talked about earlier. Composure is contagious. I think that's a very good thing.

[Chase Hughes]

What do you think about the CEOs that you've talked to who built a company? I just want to get your. I'm basically just getting some free advice from you right now. See, I'm a CEO. I started a company. I don't want to be a business person. I hate being a business person. I want to go back to creative. I want to go back to writing and creating things and making cool stuff. And now I'm. I'm at 90% business, 10% creative work, which is my passion right now.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Are you making more money than ever before?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But money's not a driver to you?

[Chase Hughes]

Not really.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Is it a top three?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, it is. Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

At this phase, yeah. Okay. And why do you not like being a business person? Maybe. What's the definition of a business person to you?

[Chase Hughes]

Going through email numbers. What's our open rate on this email? Here's our upsell and a cross sell thing. And here's how these products are doing. We need to make these little tweaks. A business person could do all of those things.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah. How many kids do you have?

[Chase Hughes]

Four.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, me too. We both have four. What part of parenting did you not like when the kids were younger?

[Chase Hughes]

Checking homework.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What else?

[Chase Hughes]

Versus like the syllabus and stuff like that? Making lunches.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You didn't like that?

[Chase Hughes]

Hated that. That's about it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That's about changing diapers. Didn't bother you?

[Chase Hughes]

No.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Pooping on you, peeing on you. Sick slivas, you know, coughing. That didn't do nothing for you?

[Chase Hughes]

No.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay. So, you know, in. In for me, in the family life, there's certain things that I'm like, babe, I'm just not going to do that. Okay. Where I have the resources that I can hire someone to do.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I can hire a tutor doing homework. You can hire a tutor if you have the resources. Hired a tutor, have somebody work with them. Right. But there are certain things as a parent that you can't match up and assign to somebody else that we have to do. Right. There's certain things that we just can't do it. Hey, can you do me a favor and talk to my daughter every night for 15 minutes to make sure she's good emotionally? And if a guy or anything did anything to her, have that. Because I don't have time. I got to do a conference call later on tonight. We can't match that up. Right. I read a book many years ago that was called thank God it's Monday. Written by psychologists. It's a very old book that these men who can't wait to be Monday to be away from the family. It's like, dude, I'm so freaking glad to be away from. This is not the one. It's a very old one.

[Chase Hughes]

Wow.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah. So the psychology finally realizes all these marriages and people. He's sitting down. If you go to images, Rob, you'll see it. No, go back to images and I'll show you which one it is. It's a very, very old book. I'll find it. I'll find it and I'll post it. But it's a very, very old book called thank God it's Monday. And it was about. So he finally realized, he says, you know, marriages that worked and relationships that worked. The husband. You needed five to 15 minutes of one on one time with each of your kids and spouse every day. That's all it was. How was your day? One on one. We can't match that up.

[Chase Hughes]

Yep.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Right. Like, my week starts Monday morning. All the businesses that we run, the business units, we get all the updates, but that's collective. So everybody kind of finds out what all the business units are doing. Then it's one on one. Attention. Meeting with Manek. That's the one right there from 1985. Yeah, that's the one. How to prevent success from ruining your marriage.

[Chase Hughes]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That's such a fascinating book from, you know, 40 years ago that was written. That was. I Think recommended to me by a man named Craig. Very good book. And so I, the more I learned about family, parenting, spouse, husband, what can I not have somebody else do? Right. These are things that you have to be thinking, same with the business. In a business, then it becomes startup, newborn. You have to do a lot of stuff.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Then when the company is a little bit more established, you can hire and train and have somebody do certain tasks that you don't want to do. And then a part of it becomes at what phase of your life you're at. Like, we consult for 10,000 businesses from 60 plus countries and we'll do engagements with them. And you'll see a lot of times where CEOs are like, Dude, I'm so done. I'm so done doing this. I'm like, so tell me why I've been working this thing for 30 years. I'm already worth 50 million. What is another 50 million worth to me right now? Nothing. My kids are this age. I just want to go see what this guy's gonna do. He may have a shot at playing football and I wanna help him go through the next four years and da da da da, guess what? Cool. So then adjust. So if. Because that's why I ask, where's money for you? You said it's a top three, but it's not the main driver. Right. But if I'm in startup phase every time in startup phase, I don't have a choice but to get back to being the guy that is needed on a daily basis.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

My insurance company needs me maybe two hours to five hours a week. And that's the biggest business out of all the businesses that I just sold. But that's because I've hired so many and invested so much into technology. So for, for where you're at, do you know your next five moves with the company? Is it a build to sell? Is it a legacy thing? Is it a purely income play? Is it something that you want to step away and kind of go into your passion of content creation? Is the momentum of clients right now paying you so much that if you step away, it could be a 50% drop off in revenue and you can't afford to do that because of maintaining the lifestyle. There's so many questions I have to do a needs analysis on to see what's the best thing for you to do now.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. But at the end of the day, figure out what I can outsource that isn't, hey, can you tell my wife I love her every night?

[Patrick Bet-David]

No.

[Chase Hughes]

And read to Read a book to my kids. But figure out what.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What, you don't want to hire another man to tell her. Honey, just so you know, Chase loves you.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And he just wants me to tell.

[Chase Hughes]

You he's in a meeting right now. He says hi. He says good night. Told me to kiss you on the forehead.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You're amazing. Okay, but. But the. But the point really with that is sometimes you don't have the luxury to hire yet. The one thing that most people don't pay enough, give enough credit to is an incredible EA can change your life. An incredible EA can make the load of life and pressures of company and everything so much better. When I was coming up in the insurance company I was building and I was at the phase where I was on the road six months out of the year, had four assistants. Oh, my God. I had.

[Chase Hughes]

Was there a hierarchy to them?

[Patrick Bet-David]

There was one that was ahead, but it was, you know, two of them would report to me directly, and then the other two were under the other two. But they had certain responsibilities. Some was personal, someone's business, someone's relationship, someone's, you know, hey, this guy's birthday's coming up. Anniversary is coming up. We got to do this with this. So I can't believe that guy you're about to talk to. He's going through this. Keep that part of mind with this. Here's what happened with this. We have to follow with these guys. What would you like me to do with this guy? These are the gifts that I bought for. This is coming up. You want to write a card real quick? It's like, I felt like I was freer and in life, in the business side, when I gauge, like, if I. Without saying names, can you think of people you hired that immediately, stress, tension went down dramatically. Don't give the full name, but think about a person you hired where you're like, oh, yeah, after I hired her, after I hired him. Right. That's how I had. But can you think of people you hired that tension went up?

[Chase Hughes]

Oh, yes.

[Patrick Bet-David]

See?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So for me, I want to find more. Like, I remember when I hired Tom Ellsworth. Pillow got softer overnight. It was amazing. First real executive I hired that had background of executive that was helping out with org chart. We raised the first million. We raised the 10 million. You know, he was a great board guy. Contacts, relationships. I slept better because I finally had somebody to share pressure with.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So that's the idea of great people. You hire somebody they can share pressure with, and then you go back to enjoying it. So it wasn't really that maybe you don't want to be a business person. It just may be the way you have hired your org chart today with the people that are working for you. You're not sharing pressure enough where you're carrying it all yourself. And you got to find a way to share that pressure and do where you shine. That could take three to six months for you to kind of.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You know, work on that. But I think somebody like you will figure that part out because you have composure and you're still. It's gonna help you out. But anyways, brother, this was amazing, gang. We're gonna put. Is there a website you want people to go to where they can find things on you? Because we're going to all those articles, if you send it to us, we're going to put in the description for people to find. But what is the website?

[Chase Hughes]

If you go to nci.university. so NCI is our main website and right on the bottom, there's a podcast link somewhere on the very, very bottom. And it's every single thing that we've talked about. Plus plus plus other stuff like that.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Fantastic. And you have a book. You have a book that is. You've written multiple books and it's not even this one. I knew you go into the behavior ops. This is a tough one to find. If you can go to his main account, Rob Chase Hughes. There's a couple other. There's a couple of them. They're right there. Those are the ones. The 6 minute X ray Rapid Behavior Profiling and Ellipsis Manual and a few other books as well. We'll put the link. Which one of these links would you like us to put below? The 6 minute x ray or the.

[Chase Hughes]

Textbook is the best.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay. So the Behavior Operations Manual, which is this guy right here.

[Chase Hughes]

It's a big.

[Patrick Bet-David]

It's a big one.

[Chase Hughes]

She's thick.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, that's great. Some people like it like that. But Chase, you're the man. Appreciate you, really enjoyed. Everybody. Take care, everybody. God bless. Bye bye. Bye bye. Nowadays, more than ever, the brand you wear reflects and represent who you are. So for us, if you wear a Future Looks Bright hat or valuetainment gear, you're telling the world. I'm optimistic. I'm excited about what's going to be happening. But you're a free thinker. You question things, you like, debate. And by the way, last year 120,000 people got a piece of Future Looks Bright gear with valuetainment. We have so many new things. The cufflinks are here. New Future Looks Bright. This is my favorite, the green one. Just yesterday, somebody placed an order for a hundred of these. If you watch the PBD podcast, you got a bunch to choose from. White ones, black ones. If you, if you, if you smoke cigars and you come to our cigar lounge, we have this high quality lighter cutter and a holder for the cigars. We got sweaters with the valuetainment logo on it. We got mugs. We got a bunch of different things. But if you believe the future looks bright, if you follow our content and what we represent with valuetainment with PVD podcast, go to vtmerch.com and by the way, if you order right now, there's going to be a special VT gift insight just for you. So again, go to vtmerch.com, place your order, tell the world that you believe the future looks bright.