Russia vs Ukraine, JFK Assassination, Trump vs Deep State w/ Oliver & Sean Stone | PBD Podcast | 522

Summary

PBD Podcast Episode Summary: Russia vs Ukraine, JFK Assassination, Trump vs Deep State with Oliver & Sean Stone | Episode 522

Release Date: December 18, 2024

In Episode 522 of the PBD Podcast, hosts Oliver Stone and Sean Stone engage in a comprehensive discussion covering a range of topics from geopolitical conflicts and historical events to the intricacies of filmmaking and political influence. The conversation delves deep into the Russia-Ukraine situation, the JFK assassination theories, the dynamics between Donald Trump and the "Deep State," and the pervasive influence of political entities such as AIPAC. This summary captures the essence of their dialogue, highlighted by notable quotes and structured under clear thematic sections.

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1. Introduction to Oliver and Sean Stone's Filmmaking Legacy

The episode begins with an enthusiastic welcome to Oliver Stone, highlighting his illustrious career in filmmaking. The Stones reminisce about Oliver's notable works, including "Wall Street," "Money Never Sleeps," "Scarface," "Platoon," "JFK," "Natural Born Killers," and "Nixon."

Notable Quote:

• Oliver Stone [00:13]: "I went to Nome as a soldier eventually in '67, '68. And I saw things that just shocked me, opened my eyes. I'd never be the same again."

2. Insights into the Filmmaking Process and Director-Actor Dynamics

Oliver and Sean delve into the challenges of directing, particularly managing actors on set. They discuss the balance between maintaining authenticity and handling difficult personalities, citing experiences with actors like Shia LaBeouf and Val Kilmer.

Notable Quotes:

• Oliver Stone [08:36]: "I try to make changes. Some directors will let it roll and roll and roll because it's tape. I don't feel that way. I feel it's a waste of energy."
• Sean Stone [09:06]: "There were ham sandwiches. I think he was getting sick. Tuna sandwiches."

3. Evaluating Classic Films and Personal Favorites

The conversation shifts to their favorite movies and the impact of certain films on their personal lives. They emphasize that the value of a movie often lies in the memories and experiences it creates rather than its critical acclaim.

Notable Quotes:

• Sean Stone [32:22]: "I just think that's it. It's like a film is a moment, an experience that you have."
• Oliver Stone [29:11]: "I love movies. From your lens, there's actually a few. 3, 400. He knows I watch old movies along with new movies."

4. The Business of Filmmaking vs. Artistic Passion

Oliver discusses the economic challenges of filmmaking, contrasting it with business ventures. He underscores the importance of passion over profit, highlighting the extensive time and resources required to produce a film.

Notable Quotes:

• Oliver Stone [47:23]: "Every time you have to make a new business, every few years just doesn't work. You make a movie and they don't accept it."
• Sean Stone [48:16]: "But there are people that look at it just as a business, and they're very mercenary."

5. Documentary Focus: Nuclear Energy and Geopolitical Implications

Oliver Stone introduces his documentary on nuclear energy, emphasizing its critical role in addressing climate change. He contrasts the advancements in nuclear technology by countries like China and Russia with the stagnation in the United States due to regulatory hurdles.

Notable Quotes:

• Oliver Stone [41:35]: "Often it's the importance of it. To me, nuclear energy was very important because we're facing climate change."
• Tucker Carlson [43:20]: "US Nuclear power capacity additions by your initial operations."

6. The Influence of AIPAC and Political Contributions

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around AIPAC's financial contributions to US politics and its influence on election outcomes. They debate the extent of AIPAC's spending and its impact on shaping policies favorable to Israel.

Notable Quotes:

• Sean Stone [93:33]: "According to Open Secrets... AIPAC spent over $100 million on 2024 elections."
• Oliver Stone [95:28]: "It's the threat of saying, we're going to campaign against you. That's just enough."

7. JFK Assassination Theories and CIA Involvement

Oliver expounds on his extensive research into the JFK assassination, suggesting deep-rooted CIA involvement and highlighting key figures like James Angleton and Howard Hunt who played pivotal roles during that era.

Notable Quotes:

• Oliver Stone [60:02]: "There's no bottom to it because the CIA doesn't put that stuff on paper."
• Oliver Stone [64:53]: "The CIA has done nothing to cooperate with any official. They've been the most hidden organization ever."

8. Donald Trump, Election Interference, and Media Narratives

The conversation shifts to the narrative surrounding Donald Trump's alleged ties with Russian interference in the 2016 elections. Sean Stone critiques the media's portrayal and the lack of substantive evidence supporting these claims.

Notable Quotes:

• Sean Stone [70:41]: "There is a desire for you to see get to the bottom of JFK. Like is there?"
• Sean Stone [73:57]: "I voted for him in 2020."

9. Israel’s Policies and Middle East Dynamics

Oliver and Sean discuss Israel's geopolitical strategies in the Middle East, focusing on Netanyahu's role and the broader implications for regional stability. They critique the unwavering US support for Israel and its consequences.

Notable Quotes:

• Oliver Stone [77:16]: "They confront me because I'm disgusted, disgusted with the Democrats, and they're a constant attack."
• Sean Stone [84:35]: "The loyalty that we find tends to be a Zionist approach."

10. Venezuela, Maduro, and US Foreign Policy

The Stones analyze Venezuela's political landscape under Maduro, condemning US interference and highlighting the complex relationship between Venezuela and international politics.

Notable Quotes:

• Oliver Stone [86:24]: "We've lied, cheated, put other people into. Call them President, we played every dirty trick on Venezuela we can."
• Sean Stone [99:15]: "Hamas is almost, it truly is Netanyahu's best weapon."

11. Concluding Thoughts and Future Projects

The episode wraps up with mentions of upcoming projects, including Sean Stone's "President's Men," which airs on Tucker Carlson's network. They express mutual respect and anticipation for future collaborations.

Notable Quotes:

• Sean Stone [120:15]: "They can find other documentaries and projects and Hollywood DC is a documentary talking about."
• Oliver Stone [121:39]: "Maybe we'll come around."

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Key Takeaways:

• Filmmaking Philosophy: Oliver emphasizes artistry over commercial success, advocating for authentic storytelling even amidst challenges.

• Political Influence: The Stones critically assess the role of political entities like AIPAC in shaping US foreign and domestic policies, suggesting a disproportionate influence on election outcomes.

• Historical and Geopolitical Analysis: They provide a deep dive into historical events such as the JFK assassination, US involvement in the Middle East, and the complexities surrounding figures like Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin.

• Documentary Importance: Highlighting the significance of documentaries, Oliver discusses the urgent need to address issues like nuclear energy and climate change through informed media.

This episode offers a thought-provoking exploration of intertwining themes of politics, history, and cinema, providing listeners with a nuanced perspective on contemporary and historical issues.

Transcript

[Oliver Stone]

Winner is. The Oscar goes to Oliver Stone.

[Sean Stone]

Oliver Stone for Midnight Express. Oliver stone, born on the 4th of July.

[Tucker Carlson]

Please welcome Oliver Stone.

[Oliver Stone]

I went to Nome as a soldier eventually in 67, 8. And I saw things that just shocked me, opened my eyes. I'd never be the same again. Combat is a searing experience and devastating to what your sense of life is worth, your sense of self. You have no illusions about yourself.

[Tucker Carlson]

Or.

[Sean Stone]

What life comes down to.

[Oliver Stone]

It comes down to a very basic thing, survival. And with some consideration for all the.

[Sean Stone]

Men and women all over the world who are in prison tonight, I thank you.

[Oliver Stone]

They are what they are a reflection of you seeking something or in a.

[Sean Stone]

Sense, taking leave of something.

[Oliver Stone]

Taking leave and seeking. They both occur. You know, you've gone through it, a process, and you leave it, you become a bit of what you've done. And it's sort of a benchmark that tells you I was here and now I can move on.

[Tucker Carlson]

Did you ever think you were making. I feel. I'm sorry. I know this life meant for me. Why would you bet on Goliath when we got bet, David Valuetainment giving values contagious this world of entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs, we get no value to haters.

[Oliver Stone]

How do you run, homie?

[Sean Stone]

Look what I become.

[Tucker Carlson]

I'm the one. All right. Okay, so we're. Are we live? Rob?

[Oliver Stone]

Yes, sir.

[Tucker Carlson]

Listen, can you imagine we're watching the intro here together, okay, with the great Oliver Stone and his son Sean, who is here. They're working. He. Sean just finished up a documentary, all the President's Men, which we'll talk about later on with Tucker with a bunch of different guys about Trump. And I'm going through the list. And again, we had you on March of 2022, okay, which when you were on at that time, the whole Ukraine thing was new. It had just happened. So we started talking about it and, you know, it was kind of risky to give the opinions and you gave and we talked about again. Reminder to everybody what movies you've been a part of, if you don't mind me taking a moment and sharing this. Okay? Wall street. We just watch it with the kids the other day, okay? Writer and director, Wall Street Money Never sleeps with Shia LaBeouf. Director, Midnight Express writer, Conan the Barbarian, writer, Scarface writer, Platoon writer and Director, born on 4th of July. Writer, director, producer, JFK. All three natural born killers. All three. Nixon. By the way, I loved, loved Nixon. I don't. I can't believe most people don't watch that. It's such a great Anthony Hopkins, phenomenal movie with the. With the stories. You see Evita, any given Sunday, Alexander Snowden. I can keep going on things you've done with Lula 2024. Writer, director, Putin, all the interviews. It's great to have you here again.

[Oliver Stone]

Don't forget nuclear energy.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, that's right, nuclear energy with Russia, which we'll get into that as well. Oliver, if you want to get a little closer to the mic, that'd be great, but it's great to have you guys here. So let me ask you, for you, you know, where's my camera?

[Oliver Stone]

I don't see myself.

[Sean Stone]

You have six cameras on you.

[Tucker Carlson]

You have so many cameras. But for you, when you think about it yourself, Sean, to you, he's your dad. Yeah, but I mean, what's. What's. What's. What is it for you, when maybe we miss it? What do you think is the most impressive thing he's done in his career?

[Oliver Stone]

It's a good question.

[Tucker Carlson]

From your perspective, not ours.

[Sean Stone]

What is the most impressive thing?

[Oliver Stone]

Giving birth.

[Sean Stone]

Yeah, I don't think he did that. Apparently, he got kicked out of the hospital because he was watching the Niners. He was watching the Niners Giants game.

[Tucker Carlson]

When you were born.

[Sean Stone]

Playoff game. 84.

[Oliver Stone]

Not before my 84.

[Tucker Carlson]

He got kicked out.

[Sean Stone]

The Niners won. At least he was happy.

[Oliver Stone]

No, that's not true. You know, it takes a long time. You have to sit there and sit there.

[Tucker Carlson]

12 hours.

[Oliver Stone]

Sometimes it was a Saturday or something, and I wanted to see that game. So my wife was. My wife. I said, I'm going to go out and come back. And I came back with a pizza.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, I'll never forget.

[Oliver Stone]

She. It was nauseating to smell. She couldn't take it, so she asked me, get the fuck out. She was screaming. But then I came back. I saw him being born, by the way. I saw him coming out.

[Tucker Carlson]

You saw him being born. That's cool. So what do you think it is. What do you think it is from your end, like? Because for us again, as fans, you're on the inside.

[Sean Stone]

Yeah, I mean, to a certain extent, I was more on a certain level of personal inside, but he's got a whole other life that I don't know. I think the. It's hard for me to say what's most impressive. You look at the films and what he's been able to do consistently across the years is be authentic and be, you know, a storyteller that's not beholden to the system. So you can't say what, you know, JFK Is the most important film or platoon porn. I mean, each one is a personal experience. Right. Some people love a favorite. This one more than another. No, I mean, you know, you mentioned like Wall street, like very watchable, right? Wall Street's kind of movie you can watch multiple times. Scarface, you can watch it multiple times. Jfk, I've probably seen the most, I would say really. Well, I like, I like thriller, conspiracy, mystery. And you know, it's such a rabbit hole that you start going down. You really, you recognize there's a lot of details that you can't get on one or two, two tries watching it because it's such a, such a thorough film. Nixon also has that quality.

[Tucker Carlson]

I just love. I was surprised how many people I asked, have you seen Nixon? Have you seen Nixon? Have you seen. No, I haven't seen it. I don't know why you haven't seen it. I obviously, I think it's a three and a half hour movie. Maybe three hour and ten minute movie. I don't. Can you pull up how many is it? 312. Yeah, it's a long movie. But I could not stop watching that film to learn the history and the acting and the 312 while you know the exact minute. That's pretty wild that you know the minute.

[Oliver Stone]

Yeah, you got to fight for these things.

[Tucker Carlson]

What do you mean you got to fight for?

[Oliver Stone]

The three hour movie in those days was not normal at all. It was a special event. When I grew up, it was a, what they called, you know, an intermission film. It was a spectacle. But by the time it's 1980s, 90s it was turned in, you had to make it as a single feature and that because they don't want to. They were playing the theater owners were putting pressure on the studios. You know, we want quicker, we want quicker turnovers. We want six turnovers a day. We want to sell popcorn in between. There's all kinds of economic reasons for it. A three hour and 12 movies. A killer. You only have four shows. Three day shows a day.

[Sean Stone]

Okay, so now a streaming.

[Oliver Stone]

You're a businessman, you should know that makes sense.

[Tucker Carlson]

So you can't play that many. So I can.

[Sean Stone]

Exactly.

[Tucker Carlson]

I can do two, five times. I can do three, maybe three or four times.

[Sean Stone]

Right.

[Oliver Stone]

That's the way they think.

[Sean Stone]

I got like a 2:00, a 5:00 comedy.

[Oliver Stone]

The hour 45. Perfect.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's what they like. The hour 45.

[Oliver Stone]

Hour 40 even.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, I mean, what do they prefer to do? They prefer 3 hour hit that gets hundreds of People coming in or hour 45, that, you know, five people show up.

[Oliver Stone]

JFK was a hit. Nixon was not. Because I think it was a darker poster and he was a darker man. And John. John Kennedy was more popular. Also. People were interested in his assassination, whereas the Nixon presidency was shrouded with ambiguities. And that was a problem selling it. That was a problem selling. We didn't have a big American star. We had Anthony Hopkins, who's a very good English.

[Tucker Carlson]

He wasn't a big star at the time.

[Oliver Stone]

No, he was not.

[Tucker Carlson]

Are you kidding? What?

[Oliver Stone]

The previous film was Remains of the Day, and Remains of the Day was his biggest film, Legends of the Fall.

[Tucker Carlson]

He was a father. And.

[Sean Stone]

No, that's not true. Hopkins had won the best actor for Silence.

[Oliver Stone]

Oh, I'm sorry. Silence. Yes, you're right.

[Tucker Carlson]

So did you. So Nixon is post Silence of the Lambs.

[Oliver Stone]

Yes, one.

[Tucker Carlson]

I Meaning Anthony Hopkins. Yeah, Anthony Hopkins. To me, you know, do you put him up there for you with guys you worked at. He's.

[Oliver Stone]

Oh, I put him at the top. One of the top. Up there with Al Pacino. Yeah, sure. He was a wonderful man.

[Tucker Carlson]

What makes. Because for you. We were talking when. And, you know, the audience doesn't see this, and I said, guys, let's go, let's go. Because we're already having a podcast. Right. And what did you say? You said you want all of it to be. What was the word used? You said authentic or you want it to be. You used some word where he said he just wanted to be off the cuff. And I said, yeah, that's interesting, because in your world. Do it again. Second take, third take, fourth take. What's the most takes you've ever done in a scene?

[Oliver Stone]

Not that many. I'm not that patient. You know, maybe 12, 13, 14. And that's not working. I mean, I try to make changes. Some directors will let it roll and roll and roll because it's tape. I don't feel that way. I feel it's a waste of energy. You got to concentrate that energy.

[Sean Stone]

One. One time, one actor had memory problems. He was getting there. Older and. And you had to put the cue cards up and. And then basically force him to just read the cue cards. It was pretty painful. I don't know if that was.

[Tucker Carlson]

Is this an actor we know.

[Oliver Stone]

Well, we shouldn't. He's a good actor. Academy Award winner. But he.

[Sean Stone]

Oh, wow.

[Oliver Stone]

You know, he reached that stage when drugs and stuff, whatever medications had slowed down.

[Tucker Carlson]

And then what do you do in that moment? Are you frustrated Because.

[Oliver Stone]

Oh, yeah, yeah, I had. The other actor was sitting across the table from him. And those people who remember this would know that the other actor was eating the tuna fish sandwich for the scene. It was a lunch scene. So he's eating the sandwich and he ate 17 or 18 of them. And I was really worried about his wait. Yeah. But he was a strong guy and he managed to absorb.

[Sean Stone]

They were ham sandwiches. I think he was getting sick. Tuna sandwiches.

[Oliver Stone]

It was really hard. Hard. That's hard. Those are hard moments, man. So the director goes through some hells.

[Tucker Carlson]

What. You know, when. When you. When you see stuff for. For again, for us who were not in it, we see the Christian Bale loses mind clip. Right. I don't know if you've seen it or not. Right. We. You ever seen Christian Bale getting upset at the camera guys, at the light guys? You know, have you seen that on.

[Sean Stone]

Terminator 3 or 4?

[Tucker Carlson]

Right.

[Sean Stone]

He flipped out. He was. He wasn't really happy with film in general. I think he was. It was not his kind of movie. Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah. I mean. And Christian Bale is, you know, phenomenal actor, in my opinion. He's a phenomenal actor. But you see him, you see Tom Cruise, you see some of those. Is that pretty common with the temper flaring? Because as an artist, as a creator, in that moment, you're getting in such a unique state that you need zero, zero distractions. Is that kind of.

[Oliver Stone]

Well, it happens quite more than you think. Yeah. People get nervous and they get upset because it takes time and it. It's a grueling process. Over 60 days, 50 days, depends. And I. I've seen many people lose their temper. Everyone loses their temper on something. Right? Well, it's not fun. It's not fun to be the director of that person. But that happens and we have to live with it. It's part of life. They're happy sometimes and they're miserable some other times. But it's a. It's a hard process. So it's. It's a life process. Every film takes something out of you. I feel like it's a tree, a tree with, you know, rings around. You got those rings. They build up. I don't know how. In the old days, they did 50, 60, 80 films. Okay. You have, to a certain point, you have to be insensitive and cut it off and just, Just a role, it's just a movie. And you get into a different attitude.

[Sean Stone]

You used to lose your temper a lot more, though. I think you calmed over the years who you used to lose your temper a lot.

[Oliver Stone]

Oh, not talk about myself. I'm talking about the actor.

[Sean Stone]

But you had some big fights.

[Oliver Stone]

Of course I did. Every director has.

[Tucker Carlson]

What happened with you and Shy? Something happened with Shia. Shia LaBeouf.

[Oliver Stone]

Nothing was shy, was a good actor. Very. You know, he's very opinionated, that's all. You know, so, you know, save the opinions because you don't have to tell me about the screenplay and about what you think about the movie and all that, you know.

[Sean Stone]

No, but you had a very funny conflict with Val, right, Kilmer. You guys got along much better later. But on the Doors, remember, you were.

[Oliver Stone]

You were at each other's throats. He was a bit of a prima donna in my mind.

[Tucker Carlson]

Val was at that point. At that point, yeah. And. And so for. For. For you.

[Oliver Stone]

But he was working very hard. Remember that? And he was doing the songs too. He had. He was dead. He was close to that. He cost us a fortune in massages, you know, I mean, we had about every time he wasn't. We had to pay somebody. It was a fortune. Seriously, we went away over budget on.

[Tucker Carlson]

That, just for massages.

[Oliver Stone]

Well, the film was over budget. That was a big part of it too. Wow, you don't think of these things, do you?

[Tucker Carlson]

I mean, is it. Is it. But is. Does it get like, you know, there's a story of Maradona who They said, hey, we want you to be the coach of whatever Argentine. I don't know if you've heard about this or not. Where he says, yeah, yeah, no problem. But you know what to do that I need a bathroom and I need my bathroom to be gold. They say, what do you mean? You ever heard the story or no. Rob, can you pull this up to see if Maradona Gold. Maradona gold bathroom. Just you type in gold bathroom. Let's see if it comes up or not. Diego Maradona's toilet seat evokes memorable. Maybe you heard or Maradona zoom in a little bit. Argentina World Cup. Diego Maradona reportedly requested. That is two high tech toilets. Heated seats cost 150 each. To which page wonders $50,000 office bathroom overhaul requesting. Anyways, maybe it's not this one. If you go to the picture images, he wanted a bathroom that was golden. Okay. His request was. Is that the one? It's one of those, says Maradona. Yeah. What is the weirdest request an actor's made? And Oliver, how do you handle that? When they like, they come to you and say, hey, Oliver, listen, this guy wants Us to do xyz. I mean, I can't imagine if they say, val wants to do six massages a day. Six massages a day? Yes. What's the weirdest request you got?

[Oliver Stone]

You remember?

[Sean Stone]

I wouldn't know. That's all. A lot of that just gets moved out in deal structure in the beginning, right. They'll put in these crazy requests like, you know, you hear about the stuff. Will Smith has, you know, his own private. You know, he has got a trailer for his gym. And, you know, they've got to bring their. I've heard people have to bring their private hairdresser, their driver. You know, those are the worst. They bring on their producing. They bring on. They add all kinds of.

[Oliver Stone]

It's the wasted money. Yeah. It's the fringes. The fringes that's. Well, we always try to keep that down. And the pictures I made because they were dedicated to a purpose, you know, we trying to get this thing done. And the studios were never that cooperative without. With my stuff. They were. It was always a struggle to get it made. You can imagine, even jfk. So you can't. It wasn't. These were not movies given to the luxury system that Hollywood had in the 80s, 90s now. But Sean is right, it's. The requests would be for assistance and assistance and their publicists and their public. And by the time it grows into a little entourage of 10, 10, 8, 9, 10 people, special people to help them with the accent and help them with the. The physical trainer has to go sometimes the gym equipment has to go. You know, it's ridiculous. You know, get used to. It's not like the old days. Get used to life on location, for Christ's sake.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oliver, who is a big, big, big shot, award winning. That's the chillest, humblest, easiest to work with.

[Oliver Stone]

I haven't worked with that many of them.

[Tucker Carlson]

Stop it. You work with everybody.

[Oliver Stone]

Yeah, but they were humble at that time. Oh, Everybody was humble. Mr. Hopkins, Mr. Pacino. Tom Cruise was young. He hadn't gone into that other hyperspace.

[Tucker Carlson]

And you talking about born on 4th of July.

[Oliver Stone]

And Charlie was normal. So Charlie, she, you know, it was. It was Willem Dafoe has always been humble. I. I can't really. I don't relate to those kind of people. I wouldn't hire them in the first place if possible.

[Tucker Carlson]

What do you mean by that? What if they're the best?

[Oliver Stone]

They had that reputation. You hear about it, you know, you don't want to have all. You don't want all the fringes. You have to be careful. So you have to set the rules at the beginning. Listen, I'm going to make this kind of movie. It's going to cost this amount. We're going to move, we got to move at this pace. Are you going to be on board or not? Otherwise you have to walk away. But sometimes you need them to get the fucking film financed.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's what I'm saying. Some of these guys have the means.

[Oliver Stone]

It becomes a double, a double edged sword. Oh. As they say, dual use.

[Tucker Carlson]

Sean, what is from, from your end? What is the sensitivity from the talent? Sensitivity versus the director Sensitivity. How different is that?

[Sean Stone]

Well, I mean that's. There are different ways of feeling in the world. You know, I would just put it like this is. The director is almost like the chess player, right? They're looking, they have to feel, but they have to be the strategically looking at everything. The actors immersing themselves into feelings and moods that sometimes are maddening. You know, I did the behind the scenes on Alexander. That was my first foray into filmmaking, was doing documentaries back when the DVDs had the behind the scene extras, you know, and they would have the featurettes about the making of or you know, on W. We did the same thing in Nixon. We did like, you know, this real story. So on Alexander I shot Fight Against Time, a feature length documentary. And we got, I got really good access to be able to see not fully the conversations, but to see a little bit of the dynamic. And it's like, you know, Colin Farrell was going through deep moods and experiences and madness.

[Tucker Carlson]

At some points actually while you're, while the movie's being shot, you're recording him and talking to him.

[Sean Stone]

Yeah, it's, it's in this, it's in the documentary. And you'll see like, you know how it's like there's, there are points where you start to wonder, is this guy gonna, you know, end up like James Dean? Is he going to kill himself? Because it's, he's so passionate and erratic and you know, he was, he was a drinker at the time and you know, he's Irish. And it was like, it was a little bit of. It was testing his, you know, his, his nerves to say, okay, can he pull this off without going over the edge? Right. And I think that's, that's the issue is always, you know, you pulling out a performance from an actor, it's like pushing them to a place that's uncomfortable. And that goes to the question of the conflict that sometimes occurs is that he's Pushing. He knows how to push buttons. There's a very famous story of telling Michael Douglas on the first day of Wall street, or second day of Wall Street. I saw the dailies from yesterday. What are you, like a TV actor? He'll say stuff like that to provoke, Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

With a straight look or with a smile.

[Sean Stone]

Totally straight. I think Douglas was shocked.

[Oliver Stone]

No, that's probably true. It's probably true. Yeah. We were having issues on the first. It was the wrong. He approached it, I have to say. I mean, he may not agree with me.

[Tucker Carlson]

He's. What?

[Oliver Stone]

He's right. But he approached a movie like it was the Streets of San Francisco or something. You know, one of the TV series that he did. It was just not this depth that I was looking for. I needed to. He was a major figure in the film. He was the antagonist. And frankly, he got an Academy Award. So something happened. You know, he deepened. He deepened in that movie. As an actor.

[Tucker Carlson]

What are you telling them? What are you telling them?

[Oliver Stone]

Well, you have to, first of all, deal with it. You have to deal with what you're seeing. I mean, they may not be. You may not be. Right. It might be too subjective. But tell the actor, be honest. If it's the time to be honest, sometimes you hold back.

[Tucker Carlson]

But what I'm saying is, as a director is a part of the director not being afraid of getting under their skin.

[Oliver Stone]

You have to be. You have to tell the truth to some degree. You can't just fake it. I hate those directors who always say, oh, great job, great job. The words become meaningless, the currency useless. You have to have some truth factor in all your relationships. Otherwise you're not. You're. You're a boutique. Otherwise, you're just being a showman. You're a traffic cop.

[Tucker Carlson]

How do you manage that versus walking on eggshells around you? Was there an element of walking on eggshells around you? And is that okay?

[Oliver Stone]

I think I was famous for walking on eggshells.

[Tucker Carlson]

You're walking on eggshells, or the people around you were walking on eggshells.

[Oliver Stone]

So I don't know what.

[Tucker Carlson]

Come on, you know what I'm asking. Because to me, that's a good point. Is. Is. Is the idea of keeping the standards so high where the actors coming and saying, oh, shit, this isn't. I got to deal with him. I got to be ready for it. And then, you know he's going to say something to upset you.

[Oliver Stone]

No, I don't. I never said do that on purpose unless something was going wrong. You know, for Example, let's say an actress comes in and she's more concerned about.

[Tucker Carlson]

Can you speak into the mic?

[Oliver Stone]

She's more concerned about her.

[Tucker Carlson]

Her.

[Oliver Stone]

The way she looks and the way she doesn't give a damn about the movie or the other people. It's just her. And when you. You have that kind of egocentric personality, you have to. You have to. You have to move away from that. You have to get more into the shadows.

[Tucker Carlson]

What will you say to that person?

[Oliver Stone]

Well, you have to get. Start dealing with that psyche. And that's not easy sometimes because some very hung up on themselves.

[Tucker Carlson]

How much of it is private? How much of it is public around everybody?

[Oliver Stone]

You know something? That's a good question, because usually it's. I keep everything private, but the crew feels it. The crew knows. In fact, sometimes the crew knows ahead of the director. You hear the words, you know, the ads, they talk. And the Kramer crews are very sharp. They've been on a lot of movies. If the actress or actor is a dud, they know it and they'll let you know it. If he's just not up. He or she is not up to par. They'll let you know. It's an interesting thing that goes on. Dynamic, by the way, let me ask you this.

[Tucker Carlson]

So you did Wall street one. The main cast is all in two, right? Money Never Sleeps.

[Sean Stone]

No. No Daryl Hannah, no Sean Young. Charlie just does a cameo in two.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, you're right. Charlie just does a cameo. But he is in it at least, right? There is a cameo of him. How much? When you were doing Money Never Sleeps because the movie did so well, did you call Charlie or talk to him and say, hey, here's what I'm thinking about doing? What do you think about this? Or no, hey, Charlie, I'm doing this. I need you to do this?

[Oliver Stone]

Yeah, I just asked him, and he was very friendly about it. Yeah, he was making a comeback at that time.

[Tucker Carlson]

Was he upset that he was not the guy playing in Walsh?

[Oliver Stone]

No, because he was a younger man. It was another kind of time. 20 years had passed. So he. In other words, Gekko was 60 coming.

[Tucker Carlson]

Out of jail, and Creed and all this stuff. He's coming up with his book launch.

[Oliver Stone]

It's another young man. And Zach and Josh Brolin was playing a key role. He was playing the Gecko role as a young man. Oh, I'm sorry. So that was a whole different ball game, but I was just upset.

[Sean Stone]

They killed my character. Gordon Gekko's son was killed, and he had a daughter replaced the son With a daughter.

[Tucker Carlson]

You were in it.

[Sean Stone]

No, So I was Gordon Gekko's son in the original.

[Oliver Stone]

That's right. That's right. Yeah.

[Sean Stone]

And the king, the, the son is supposed to have killed himself in the original.

[Oliver Stone]

That's right. That's part of the story.

[Tucker Carlson]

Did that kind of like, hey, what's up, dad? What's the story all about?

[Oliver Stone]

Gordon Gekko as a father. You might kill yourself too, I think.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah. I'm looking at this.

[Oliver Stone]

A great cast. And Frank Langella, I have to say, played an old tycoon. He was perfect, by the way.

[Tucker Carlson]

I love Josh as well. Josh was, Josh is, Josh is phenomenal.

[Oliver Stone]

Michael is always underrated, but he was really good in the movie.

[Tucker Carlson]

So the reason why I asked this question. Did you watch Gladiator 2?

[Oliver Stone]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, I did.

[Tucker Carlson]

What'd you think about it?

[Oliver Stone]

I had empty calories. Feeling like you what is certainly watchable. It's good, well made us take Ridley film. But I didn't care about the people. I wasn't invested.

[Tucker Carlson]

Your comparison of 1 versus 2, 1.

[Oliver Stone]

Was a, was a classic. 2 is empty calories, like a commercial product.

[Tucker Carlson]

I was so upset after watching two. Really, I, I was so upset. My wife's like, babe, give it a break. I said, no, babe, I'm, I'm, you know why? Because I don't think, you know, I'm not in the world to know what. But with the risk of after you make a movie that's a 10 to come out and a, another one, and, and to me, they show that the, it was the biggest movie Denzel's ever done, money wise, I think was a quarter of a billion dollars or whatever the money made. I saw the numbers, but I gave it a six and a half at best.

[Oliver Stone]

You're a gladiator yourself. You know, you're, you're powerful. And you probably didn't like the physique of the guy as much.

[Tucker Carlson]

I, I, I just, the whole, the story was okay, but there was something about it. And the reason why I'm asking this question because did you, did you see the clip of Russell Crowe being asked about Gladiator 2? And what he said, have you seen this or no?

[Oliver Stone]

No.

[Tucker Carlson]

Please tell me neither one of you guys have seen this. Okay, so then I want to get the raw reaction from you. Can you, can you pull this up? Rob, can you pull up the one I sent you? I texted you the clip. If you can play this clip. He's being asked about Gladiator, and this one guy says he's Doing a reaction on Russell Crowe's question about it. And Russell says, oh, my God, they better start paying me. Because, you know, I'm being asked so much about this movie and I'm not even in the movie. And the question was right here, if you can play this clip and then I'll just get to it. Go for it, Rob. Ask Russell Crowe about Gladiator 2. They should be paying me for the amount of questions I've had to answer about the film that I'm not even in. Ridley Scott recently wrapped filming for his Gladiator sequel starring Paul Mescal, Denzel Washington and Pedro Pascal. Mescal plays a grown up Lucious from the first film. And let's just say Russell Crowe doesn't have anything to do with the sequel and doesn't want anything to do with it. I don't know anything about the cast. I don't know anything about the plot. Well, I wouldn't, would I? Because I'm dead. I have no idea what they're doing and it's got nothing to do with me. In that world, I'm dead. Six feet under. That's that. I was in Malta recently. We did a concert there. And I looked across to Fort Recastally and the Coliseum's built there again like it was in 1999. It was like a time warp. For a couple of seconds there, I was like, what year is this? I wasn't expecting that they would rebuild the Coliseum in the same place. I admit to a certain tinge of jealousy. If Ridley has decided to do a second part to that story, he will have really strong reasons. The movie comes out right around Thanksgiving, so you can not. So what do you think about his response?

[Oliver Stone]

Whose response?

[Tucker Carlson]

Russell's.

[Oliver Stone]

I think he's very diplomatic.

[Tucker Carlson]

Have you ever worked with Russell?

[Oliver Stone]

No. Why would you want to if the part was right? Why are you on hook? Why are you barking up this street for?

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, I'll tell you why. I'll tell you exactly why. The reason why I'm asking this question, Oliver, is because for me, like, Gladiator is a top 50 movie of all time. My opinion. In my opinion, you can go and debate movies. It's all in the eye of the beholder. You know how this works? Okay? That's my type. This is your type. You talk to Mary, I'll talk to Jennifer. We're squared away, right? And for you to make the movie, is it normal when a movie is this big of a hit to not even talk to Russell and say, here's what we're here. I would have never expected anything to happen with two without him not being asked about it. Or is that pretty normal where he.

[Oliver Stone]

Said he was dead? So what? He, his character was dead? This is another. It's, it's all fiction anyway. There was no, no, nothing realistic cameo in it, though.

[Tucker Carlson]

Why don't you put something to like they did not a cameo.

[Sean Stone]

Like they had flashbacks to the original. They had moments where you see him in the original, but there's.

[Tucker Carlson]

He knew nothing about what's going to happen with the movie, though. Would you have done it that way? Would you have done two differently?

[Oliver Stone]

Well, first of all would have conceived a different script. But it's important, you know, it's a new concept. It was all that was the way it was created. And maybe that's good, you know. What does the, the dinosaur film have to do with the previous dinosaur film?

[Sean Stone]

Jurassic. Jurassic World.

[Oliver Stone]

Jurassic World. What does that have to do with it? Why would you talk to the previous dinosaur?

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, I get, I get what you're saying when you're saying talking to the previous dinosaur, but if you, if you watch Jurassic Park. I don't know if Jurassic park is tied to an actor that I emotionally was affected by.

[Oliver Stone]

Well, that's because you're, you're a gladiator. That's the only reason, you know, you're.

[Tucker Carlson]

But you don't see the movie. So how do you watch the movie? How different does a guy like you watch a movie?

[Oliver Stone]

I watch the whole thing. I don't. I'm.

[Tucker Carlson]

You watch the cinematography?

[Oliver Stone]

Yeah, it's a whole. It's a whole experience. It's a life. No, I don't focus on one part aspect of it.

[Tucker Carlson]

Got it. So you just called me one dimensional.

[Oliver Stone]

Well, you're a businessman.

[Tucker Carlson]

I'm walking on eggshells around you now. Right. I just got the feeling of the stories you tell. But for you, just out of curiosity, what are your favorite movies like, what kind of stuff do you like?

[Oliver Stone]

I love movies.

[Tucker Carlson]

I love movies too.

[Oliver Stone]

From your lens, there's actually a few. 3, 400. He knows I watch old movies along with new movies, so I mix it up and I get confused sometimes as to what. I don't remember all the things I saw. Give me a list and I'll tell you what.

[Tucker Carlson]

What have you watched the most?

[Oliver Stone]

The most.

[Tucker Carlson]

The most times. Over and over and over and over again.

[Oliver Stone]

Sound of Music. I don't really. You know, there was. There are old movies. My Fair Lady. There's hundreds of movies that are great. This is Listen, if we stopped making movies now, no more movies were made, I'd be fine. I mean, I could. There's enough there for the rest of time, you know, honestly. And also, there's a. I read it. I discovered old movies that I didn't see, which is a wonderful experience. And I think there's a. It's a. You know what the. In the Renaissance, there's a period when they all talk about Italy and they all talk about Flemish painting. That's what we're in the movie business was that moment. We have those hundreds and hundreds of paintings. We should enjoy them.

[Tucker Carlson]

All right, I agree, but was there a flick where you guys.

[Oliver Stone]

But that's the problem. That's what critics do. I don't want to do that. They say the 10 best. The best. That's such a bullshit.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's not the question. It's the question.

[Oliver Stone]

Yeah, it is. Because you tend to narrow things down. People have to say, I saw that movie, but it's better than that one. And now, come on, just wake up, enjoy the whole thing.

[Tucker Carlson]

You know what movie I watch, like, God knows how many times that nobody would ever say it's like one of the greatest movies of all time. Cocktails. I swear to God. Cocktails with Tom. Tom Cruise and what's his name? Is it not Christopher?

[Oliver Stone]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Who's. Who's in Cocktails? What's the other guy's name? Yeah, Brian Brown. Oh, my God. He crushed it in that movie. Right? The bar. Barman, poet or whatever there was, you know.

[Oliver Stone]

Well, there's hundreds of those movies.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, I get that, but to me, that movie I watched in the army probably 200 times, like, we literally, at our unit.

[Sean Stone]

An escape for you at that point.

[Tucker Carlson]

You know what it was. And maybe. Maybe this is the part about the story. Because remember, what's the story of Cocktails, Cocktail? It's the story of this guy that's got a dream of one day being a business owner, right? And eventually, what does he do? He opens up. Cocktail and dreams, right? And the restaurant and all this other stuff. And then, Hey, I bet you'll never spook me again. I bet I will. What's that? You know, all these. These moments, but no. 1 cocktail is not on anybody's 100 list. I feel like taste is different than criticism, if that makes sense. Of course, criticism is criticizing this movie or that movie versus now, listen, I can watch a movie like that, simple, over and over again.

[Oliver Stone]

And I have Sean, he grew up in the 1980s. Ask him what he. You remember, you saw 20 times.

[Sean Stone]

Well, in the 80. I mean, the 80s to me, I still go back to. If I just feel like, you know what? I just want something fun. I love the 80s as a decade, right? Because they started to mix genres in a way where it's comedy, it's adventure, right. It's sci fi. They get back to the future. Right. What genre is that? It's a, it's a almost a perfect film. But like you said, it's not going to win best picture. And yet it's one of the most classic and a lot of the most classical classic films that we think and we want to watch every year. Whatever, you know, whether it's Wonderful Life, they never. I don't think Wonderful Life won Best Picture. What didn't do well when it opened.

[Oliver Stone]

But what are some of the films that did less well in the 80s?

[Sean Stone]

You, you loved Countless. Countless.

[Oliver Stone]

What was the horror film?

[Sean Stone]

Lost Boys, the Monsters, the Lost Boys.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right.

[Oliver Stone]

I mean, the horror films that you love.

[Sean Stone]

I mean, too many. I saw them all when I was young.

[Oliver Stone]

And so Candyman.

[Sean Stone]

Yeah, Candyman was fun. You know, that's why I think when you ask about, like films, I always say to people, what's your favorite experience in your life? What's your favorite moment in your life? Go back in your life. What's. Because I think that's it. It's like a film is a moment, an experience that you have. Maybe it's with the people you watch it with. Right. Sometimes it's the date you're on or just the experience of, oh, wow, that brought me to. I was in a down, I was in the dumps and I watched that movie. Or I remember being in high school and waiting for Friday night to go see American Pie because it was like gonna take me out of this experience and take me somewhere else. So you can't really say this is better than that. They're just moments in our lives.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, I fully agree. I agree. Like, to me it's the moments of like Rocky iv. You know why I watched that movie so many times? My mother's side, they were communists. They were all part of the two day party today party. Back in the days. You may know the two day party from back in the days. They were communists, my dad imperialist. So watching Rocky, you know, is mom and dad. Can communists and Americans come together? Right. Can these two guys find a way to agree? Didn't happen. They got married and divorced twice to each other. Right. But there's a story to it. So for me, Rocky 4, I watched it in Iran, in Farsi. Think about how Rocky sounds speaking Farsi. Right. Because that's how we would. When you would buy, the guy would sell it to you with a guy that speaks Farsi. No, I agree with you. 80s, to me, not only some of the best movies, but I think 80s is also days of thunder.

[Sean Stone]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

You know, 80s music. 80s music is the best, I think is the best decade of music on that. So maybe let me go a different angle here, question wise for you guys.

[Oliver Stone]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oliver, Sports. Are you a sports guy? Do you like sports? Okay, Sean, are you also sports? You're a big guy yourself.

[Sean Stone]

I told you he was watching football on the day I was born. We know, we 49ers.

[Tucker Carlson]

Is it just football or is it all sport? So all sport. Okay. So you know when you talk about guys that play two sports, Brian Jordan, Deion Sanders.

[Sean Stone]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

You know, you got a few of these. Bo Jackson. Right, right. You got like a handful of these guys that did both, and they did pretty well. Dion's probably one of the better ones that was able to.

[Sean Stone]

Michael Jordan tried it.

[Tucker Carlson]

Michael Jordan tried it, but Dion actually succeeded.

[Sean Stone]

Dion was great.

[Tucker Carlson]

Dion was great on both Braves and all the stuff that he did. But the question is, in movie, is it a different sport to go from making movies to making documentaries, or is it the same sport?

[Oliver Stone]

Well, it's the same process, in a sense. Documentaries are very important to me, and I did 20 of them or 15, I don't know. But the reason is they bring you back to the research world, the real world, the world that you're actually dealing with people who are live and you're getting in touch with that aspect of yourself. Whereas if you live on a stage or live with the fictional film, it's another world, it's artificial. And you're constantly trying to create realities. So it's a real challenge. That's why it's important to stay in touch with the real world. And a lot of Hollywood people do not. I mean, the reason I'm into contemporary events. Look at the films I did in the last 20 World Trade Center w the film of George Bush. I stayed current. I wanted to know what was going on. And the last one was Snowden. That was right on the. We did it on the cusp of what happened. And it was very important to me to know what was going on in computers at that point. I don't regret that they may not have done as well because the American century changed after 2001. We became another animal. And that affected the Culture and the appreciation and the generation changed and a new generation came along who didn't know the same things that the 1980s and 70s generation knew. Think about it that way.

[Tucker Carlson]

Is that fair to say that you're an anomaly for that?

[Oliver Stone]

No, I think I cared about events that were going on around us. And when I see some of the treatment of the current events. Hollywood doesn't care. They don't. They don't base their films on that. They don't want to reflect reality necessarily. They want to. Yeah, they'd love to get the money from it. But it's a creation of fantasy too. And the films don't deal with American century. What did America become after 2001? You have to. Those films don't really deal with it. It's another more imperialist, more authoritarian, more patriotic, more militaristic. I mean, come on. That has to be reflected in movies. Maybe Gladiator reflects that, but. Maybe it does.

[Tucker Carlson]

But is it common for guys at your level, there's only a handful of you guys to do movies and to do docs. That's what I mean. Is that a multi sport event?

[Oliver Stone]

Hollywood directors, producers, we never talk about current events because I don't get any sense a interest in it. We always talk about artificial stuff, which is fun. Sometimes it talks about movies. That's another world. Documentaries as a whole, I've gotten so much introduction to the world through documentaries. Meeting Chavez and Castro, meaning the Israelis, meeting Putin and nuclear energy. And that was not about a person, that was about an issue. Come on. That was a very difficult movie for me to make. All I talked to was sinus.

[Sean Stone]

Just to your question, a different sport, I would say acting and directing would be like playing two sports. Right? Because they're very different ways of being documentary to film. It's just a different medium. Documentary is a different way of making a movie and telling a story. But it's still the same fundamental principles. Right? You're either setting up cameras, your actors are. You're either your participants, you know, like reality show style or interview style. You're sitting down, you're talking to someone, you're. You're feeling okay. What's the tempo? Is this boring? Do I have to cut away to something else where the visuals coming from? Right. You know, am I going to archives or am I shooting it? So it's the same principle of storytelling. It's just maybe the budget. Generally the budget is nowhere near what you get with the film. You don't have to stage everything. It's a little bit different, but the same principles of storytelling apply. And there are films that, you know, can apply the documentary style or the mockumentary style. Right. And make that. Bring that. That. That tempo to it. And likewise, you can bring cinematic style to documentary. So I think they're just. There are many different languages, and it's like, you go to film school and you watch some of these things, and you're like, man, you know, the madaran types and the brackstan brackets and things like this. And, you know, there's many others.

[Tucker Carlson]

They're.

[Sean Stone]

They're not necessarily the most entertaining films, but it just shows you how film, you know, how do you say we've. Hollywood has created a certain style for the most part. Right. That's larger than life and, you know, goes back to, let's say, you know, the epics of Griffith and whatnot, Gone with the Wind. But if you go across the world, there's many different styles of storytelling that, from a Hollywood perspective, would come across as boring, but might resonate more with a more documentary approach, like a. Like an. An Ozo or someone like this. You know, a Japanese approach to storytelling that might be a little bit more like Day in the Life and a little bit more focused on. On nuance that maybe a documentarian would be interested in as opposed to a Hollywood filmmaker. Right. There's different approaches to that same. It's still storytelling. It's just different ways of telling.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah. I mean, I'm just trying to find out, like, you know, Justin Timberlake is a triple threat. He can sing, act, and, you know, dance. You know, when they. When they talk about that. Right. Those are different skill sets. I don't know if Denzel can dance, and I don't know if Denzel can sing. So. Okay, maybe he's not, in that sense a triple threat. Right. That's why I'm saying at this level, is it. I'm just making movies. I'm not doing documentaries. Okay. For me to go do both is not common at this level. That's why I thought me. I'm asking a question about whether it's two separate sports to be played. And, you know, Oliver, like, what gets you to say, I want to make this movie or I want to. What is the first spark that I want to write about this. I want to go pursue this and maybe even do a documentary on it. What's the first spark that gets you interested?

[Oliver Stone]

Often it's the importance of it. You know, like, to me, nuclear energy was very important because we're facing climate change. If you Accept that. What are we going to do? Are we providing the solution? And if you study the issue, really study it and talk to people, you, you have to doubt the conventional idea that we're going to be saved by renewables. So first thing that comes up, people say, what are we doing? We're, we're still have. Why are we not improving? Why are the fact. Why is the carbon dioxide still the same after all these renewables, after all the trillions of dollars we've spent? Look at Germany. I mean, the whole concept of going to nuclear was becoming caused by that because we have to wake up and we don't. And that's why you have to make something, because this is urgent. Look at that poster. That's. There's not, not a person, not a face on it. Right? That poster, it's a, it's not necessary. It's a look like a Walt Disney Space picture or something. I don't, I'm not going to run out and see that. That's the problem.

[Tucker Carlson]

But, but, but again, so what, what got, what got you to want to do that?

[Oliver Stone]

Because I had to. Because we're all going to fry. You're going to. I don't want to be walking around. I don't want him to walk around and, you know, burn up. It's going to be very tough unless we deal with this energy issue. I don't. There has to be solutions. Everyone's thinking to the future, there's going to be a solution. We're going to figure it out. Well, we got to get serious now. Back then, you may not agree with me, a lot of people don't, but my God, I think it's the burning issue of our day. Beyond Ukraine, beyond Joe Biden and, and, and Donald Trump, this is a real, real significant look at the figures. This is disgusting.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right. This is why, you know, Rob, this is US Nuclear power capacity additions by your initial operations.

[Oliver Stone]

Don't go by the US you should go by China or Russia.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's a good point. So, you know, China and Russia is a different story, but this is for us. Right. So for you that did the documentary. Do you have the other one as well, Rob, that we, we went away from it for a while. Whether you want to culture.

[Oliver Stone]

Oh, that's for sure. Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Whatever the reasons are.

[Oliver Stone]

Well, because of the, all the fear was a fear that drove us away from it.

[Tucker Carlson]

So what did you learn at the end of the document?

[Oliver Stone]

Among, among other things, is the fear was ridiculous because there was none of those accidents really added up to Anything compared to the other waste products of other energy, such as gas and oil and coal.

[Tucker Carlson]

This is the one that answers your question for you. Construction starts of nuclear reactors in the world.

[Oliver Stone]

It's depressing.

[Tucker Carlson]

From 51 to today. The orange is China from 95. If you look at 85, 89, you barely see one or two in China and other countries. Majority of those are US. And then when you come to the last 10 years, majority of it is China, last 20 years. And the rest of the world isn't doing anything.

[Oliver Stone]

Well, they are doing. New countries are coming into it. Yeah. Russia is selling. Is doing a very good job of constructing reactors abroad in other countries. They're selling the product. China is doing it. And they're also devised. They're working very hard. China and Russia have smart, which are the small modular reactors. They have them. The United States is still working on it. We're way behind. But I do believe we'll come up with a design for an SMR that will be accepted through our regulation process, which is tedious. And costs. That's why it costs so much. We don't approve anything. It's like a bad business. Right. We're choked. We don't allow new stuff unless it's fancy and has a purpose. Like, you know, it's just very hard to get new designs in. We have to change our ways. And I think the SMRs, well, hopefully will be there by 2030. Hopefully. I know Westinghouse is working on one and General Electric, they have good stuff coming.

[Tucker Carlson]

What do you think about China investing?

[Oliver Stone]

China is great. Great. They're doing so much in terms of building new. Not only nuclear reactors, but they're building. I lament their use of coal still. Yes, very. That's very evil. But they are doing better and better and better. And they're amazing, some of their buildings. Amazing. They're the future.

[Tucker Carlson]

You're saying China is the future?

[Oliver Stone]

It looks like it. They're doing the best, most modernistic work. And I have high hopes for the rest of the world. I mean, if you go to the east, your countries, I mean, go out there to the stands, go out to that. You know, I just. I did a documentary about Kazakhstan. It's an amazing place. It's very future thinking. Whole new generation, building things, creating new cities.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's interesting when you're going into something like this because for me, like, you know, it's getting into a business. We run nine companies. Okay, so. Right, so nine. Because how do you get into this company? You find a problem and then you look for the solution on how you would fix it that's maybe different than others. And then what demo are people not in? And then maybe use a certain strategy, Blue Ocean strategy that, you know, hey, they're not in this market or whatever. And then you make the adjustments. In a movie sense. What is that process? What is the process of doing a movie or doing a documentary? Is it, let me see, what story hasn't been told? Or is it, man, I like the story, I'm gonna write a script. What's that process of starting a business? Because each movie. I remember sitting down with Aaron Spicer who said, each movie is a business.

[Sean Stone]

That's right. You're an entrepreneur.

[Tucker Carlson]

You got to look at every movie as a business. Right?

[Sean Stone]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

So what is the process of saying, the next business I'm going to build is going to be Wall Street. The next business we're going to build is going to be xyz. What is that process?

[Oliver Stone]

That's the way you think, and that's what. Movies are a bad deal. I mean, every time you have to make a new business, every few years just doesn't work. You make a movie and they don't accept it. They don't understand it. It's ahead of its time, behind its time, whatever. It's not that easy. So you spend two, three years of your life making a movie. I don't think it's. It's an economical business. I wouldn't go into it for that reason. You go into it as an artist and frankly, you know, say, I want to make this. It's my passion is here. It's the most important thing in the world to me right now, and blah, blah, blah.

[Sean Stone]

But there are people that look at it just as a business, and they're very mercenary, and they just take, you know, whatever the gig is. And I think that's the real. The really hard thing to navigate. I mean, Scorsese always said he did one film for himself and one film for Hollywood. Right. It's like a compromise.

[Tucker Carlson]

One film for himself and one film for Hollywood.

[Sean Stone]

Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

And Hollywood is the money. One for himself is the art.

[Sean Stone]

Right. That's what he said, at least. Interesting.

[Tucker Carlson]

Would you agree with that? Like, that format?

[Oliver Stone]

No, it didn't work for me. It doesn't work for me because you have to have a certain. He does what he does. You know, you have to admire him. He was my teacher at nyu.

[Tucker Carlson]

Scorsese.

[Oliver Stone]

He's lasted this long, and he's great, he's good. And listen, he's made his Deal. He's found his way.

[Tucker Carlson]

You're a disagreeable man is the feeling I get, which is needed to be a strong man. That's a compliment. I don't say that in a. The only reason you would be willing to do, you know, entertain these documentaries or movies is because you don't give a shit what the market thinks. Well, you're trying to find out what you're interested in. Right? In my.

[Oliver Stone]

My impression, I followed my heart.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah. That's exactly the point. So to me, you know, one of the qualities of an alpha male is that you. You disagree, you debate. You're like, no, I don't know if I agree with that. I don't think that's the right way.

[Oliver Stone]

To go about it.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right, so. So when you did go through Scorsese and you're learning from whoever it is, were you at any point, as a young man coming to. Wanted to get in this space? I don't know if I agree with that. I wouldn't do it that way. Did you have those moments as a young man in his class?

[Oliver Stone]

Not then, no. Because I was learning the trade. I was paying attention.

[Tucker Carlson]

How about later on?

[Sean Stone]

Well, no, his dad used to say. Right. Your dad used to always come out of the movie and say, we could have done it better.

[Oliver Stone]

Right.

[Sean Stone]

And so your dad kind of put that into your mind of starting to think about maybe how you would have done a film differently.

[Oliver Stone]

Yeah, my father would always talk about, we could have done it better. Meaning there was something wrong with a hole in the movie and the hole in the story, the logic. The logic of it. But that you become. Then you become too logic ridden, and sometimes that undercuts you. And that's happened to me. I've made films. So in a way, they wound themselves into a complicated. A knot by the third act, and then you got to get out of the knot.

[Tucker Carlson]

So your father. You're talking Louis. Your grandfather Louis. Okay, so I just looked it up right now. He passed away 3-16-85. Next year, it'll be 40 years. What movie did he get a chance to see? Did he get a chance to see anything? Any of your work or.

[Oliver Stone]

No, not the features. You saw the Hand, my horror film and Seizure, my first film out of nyu. Yeah, no, he. But I had written Midnight Express, so he knew that I was on my way in that business. And I've written Conan and my screenwriting stuff.

[Sean Stone]

He did a cameo on Scarface.

[Tucker Carlson]

Really?

[Sean Stone]

Oh, he didn't know that's walking by down the street here in Miami.

[Tucker Carlson]

When Did. When did Scarface come?

[Oliver Stone]

Miami. Yeah.

[Sean Stone]

83.

[Tucker Carlson]

Did he. Did he watch Scarface?

[Oliver Stone]

Yeah, yeah, sure.

[Tucker Carlson]

What did he say about it?

[Oliver Stone]

He got a kick out of him.

[Tucker Carlson]

But when you watched it with him, were you uncomfortable? Were you, like, watching him watch it or. No. Were you just, hey, here's the art we made. Let's watch it?

[Oliver Stone]

No, I never saw it with him because my dad was, you know, he was an economist. He was very logical, very much a Wall street man. But even at the end of his life, he started. His conservatism was vanishing. He said. At the end of his life, he said, you know, we made a big deal about Russia all my life. It was a big. That was the thing of the Cold War. It was a really big deal. He scared the shit out of me when I was a kid. So by the end of his life, by the late 70s and early 80s, after the. Well, Reagan. It's true, he was in the middle of the Reagan era. But even Reagan started to let up after the near scare of abel Archer in 1983. We had a near nuclear war with Russia. It was ridiculous. It was out of fear. And after that, if you remember, Reagan and Gorbachev got together in 86 and started the whole process of detente, which we'd forgotten about. But we almost had a moment when we banned nuclear weapons completely from the earth. That almost happened. They'd reached a friendly moment when Reagan was a very affable man that way. And he said, why not? He said, why not? Why don't we get rid of them? And then, of course, the guys on his. That's my father. And the guys behind him said, no, you can't do that. You can't. But George Shultz was on in favor of that. He was a secretary of state at that time. So it's possible. I mean, we can think differently, but we. Sometimes we. We close up into our balls of fear.

[Tucker Carlson]

Did you. Did you write Wall street based on stories he would tell you from Wall street, or.

[Oliver Stone]

No, no, that was based on the fact that we had all those scandals and those young people were starting to make money. You see, my dad was the old Wall Street. That's what I pictured that in the picture with Hal Holbrook and the father figure of Martin Sheen, who was the union leader. The younger crowd was amoral. You know, a lot of them were, like, into. The. People were making big money. I mean, I don't know if you remember, 83, 84, 85. People were making millions of dollars at the age of 28, 29. That was outrageous. We never had even seen that kind of money before. Young people were supposed to, you know, you don't make big money until your 40s, 50s. Right? Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And later on, the movie that a lot of guys watch, that was, you know, form of Wall street was Boiler Room. Right. Where the JT Marlin. I don't know. I think that's what it was called, J.T. marlin or whatever the. Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. So this was a first time, you know, we got a chance to watch Vin Diesel on what he did, you know, no wood, whatever. The call was Ben Affleck, you know, talking about his, you know, Ferrari. This is my house. This is my.

[Oliver Stone]

This.

[Tucker Carlson]

This is my dad. It's a phenomenal movie, but it shows the world of penny stock. And I. I think I even remember somebody saying this was depicting what Jordan Belfort did that later on ended up being the Wolf of Wall Street. I read that somewhere. I may be wrong.

[Oliver Stone]

That's true.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah.

[Oliver Stone]

Yeah. That was a penny stock crowd. But they were never mainstream. They were right. They were the sidestream. The people I'm talking about were mainstream. They were joining the mainstream and they were controlling the stocks. We had those people. They were coming on. And if you look very closely at the whole. The Gordon Gekko types ended up being the banks. By the 2010 period, when I did Wall Street, Money Never Sleeps, because that was the idea the independent traders became this by 2010, had so gamed the system and so inflated the system that they were the new chiefs.

[Tucker Carlson]

What do you think about Joseph Kennedy?

[Oliver Stone]

What about him? I liked him. I mean, he did amazing stuff. He created a clan. He nourished his kids to become leaders. And he was a very good father in the end. He turned out to be a very good father.

[Tucker Carlson]

Did he ever inspire you want to do a movie on him or documentary on him?

[Oliver Stone]

No way to. No. He was the progeny. He was a progenitor of a family. I admired John, as you know, and Robert very much, and Ted, too, as well as his sisters.

[Tucker Carlson]

So you wouldn't have interest in doing a movie? Like, I'd love to see you do something with. On Joseph Kennedy. It'd be.

[Oliver Stone]

Why. Why you? Why?

[Sean Stone]

What angle do you think?

[Tucker Carlson]

Are you kidding me? Like, if there's a. Yeah, so if I ever wanted to get into. In two to five years, we're going to get into movies. Not right now. We're building this whole thing. We're going to, you know, build the Burbank of East coast here in Fort Lauderdale. We think this is a great market for.

[Oliver Stone]

I suggest a book if you're interested in Joe Kennedy. There's a wonderful book, fiction by Richard Condon who wrote Manchurian Candidate called Mile High.

[Tucker Carlson]

Is it on him?

[Oliver Stone]

It's a wonderful book. It's about gener. Yeah, it's about Joe Kennedy, but it's. It doesn't. It's a fiction, fictionalized version. Mile, Mile Higher. What does it say, Rob?

[Tucker Carlson]

Can you send that to me so I can buy it?

[Sean Stone]

I'm looking right now.

[Tucker Carlson]

I said great, send it to me. That'd be great.

[Oliver Stone]

Wonderful story.

[Tucker Carlson]

Is it called Seat of Destruction or.

[Oliver Stone]

No, no, Mile High. It's called.

[Tucker Carlson]

I don't see Mile High. Anyway. But anyways, if you find it, send it to me.

[Oliver Stone]

Richard Condon. C O N D O N. Come on, Rob, you find everything.

[Sean Stone]

There you go.

[Tucker Carlson]

Rob, if you can send that over to me, I want to read that book.

[Oliver Stone]

There it is, 1969.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, wow. Oh, there you go. Yeah, send it over to me. That'd be great. So it's an older book that was written on.

[Oliver Stone]

Nothing wrong with that is.

[Tucker Carlson]

No, I love it. I don't have any problem with that. That's why you're here. I'm borrowing your wisdom. But Joseph Kennedy, why not, right? To me, like what is a bigger last name than the Kennedy last name and who was the visionary behind it? The amount of stories of him sitting down with the kids at night, who's going to be the president, all these different things you hear about and you know, never wanted to get, you know, at least from the books I read, didn't want to give credit to the family that he came from a family of money where he wanted to kind of like there's some of those stories that comes out, you know, he went to Harvard, you know, president of a bank, 28 years old. I don't know. I think it's a very interesting story. I think it's a very, very interesting story. And it's got such a long lifespan that it's an 80 years into.

[Oliver Stone]

That's hard for movies. Remember that?

[Tucker Carlson]

I know. So you have to go like 20 years, right? You have to go like to a scene.

[Oliver Stone]

Is that kind of no rule? No rule at all.

[Tucker Carlson]

But why saying it's hard to do it like that.

[Oliver Stone]

What is because of the span, the time span.

[Tucker Carlson]

So then you can pick a. Pick an era to go through, right?

[Oliver Stone]

But you just limited it then if.

[Tucker Carlson]

You'Re going to make it, I trust you to do it. I'm not.

[Oliver Stone]

You got to find your significant points that you want to make.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, I just think. I just think that guy is one of the biggest power players we had in America, and he'd be a very interesting guy to study. I think the new era doesn't know as much about him to realize the impact he made.

[Oliver Stone]

There was a long period and he was on the outs. Roosevelt wouldn't talk to him.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's right.

[Oliver Stone]

He was down on his luck. He couldn't get the impact he wanted. He became frustrated during the war.

[Tucker Carlson]

He wasn't respected.

[Oliver Stone]

And then after the war, he bounced back with his oldest son. Died. Killed in an accident in war. And then his second son he groomed belatedly for the presidency. Who won the Senate? He won the house in. In 47 or 40. Yeah, about 47. And then he. And then senator in 52. Right. So he groomed John as his replacement.

[Tucker Carlson]

You don't want to do anything on him.

[Oliver Stone]

It's a great story, but it's. I kind of. I know the story. I mean, I. I don't need.

[Tucker Carlson]

The world doesn't.

[Oliver Stone]

There's another story about Kennedy I would like to sell.

[Tucker Carlson]

What's that?

[Oliver Stone]

But they won't let me do that. I. I can't tell you that. Wouldn't. Okay.

[Sean Stone]

All right.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, listen. Your thoughts with all these total amount of hours you put into the JFK assassination story. Investigator. Right. All the hours that you put into it. Okay.

[Oliver Stone]

I'm not going to give you a quick summation. No.

[Tucker Carlson]

There's this guy. There's this guy that just. I don't know if you've been following it closely. I'm sure you're very busy making movies, so maybe you're not following the news. There's this guy named Donald J. Trump that just became this thing they call in America.

[Oliver Stone]

What do you mean? I don't follow the news.

[Tucker Carlson]

And Bobby is now involved. He's got a pretty job. Right.

[Oliver Stone]

I know Bobby.

[Tucker Carlson]

Do you think since his involvement being in there, we're finally gonna get to the bottom of the CIA documents to see what really happened?

[Oliver Stone]

Well, there's no bottom to it because the CIA doesn't put that stuff on paper. But there are a lot of files on people in the CIA at that time, such as James Angleton. That was the big place to start. That's the counterterrorism chief of all those years. James Angleton. You've ever heard of him? Very important figure. And you have to go into him to begin. And then there's Other people like Bill Harvey and Phillips, David Atlee, Phillips. There's Howard Hunt. There's the other guy, Joeannides, George Joannidis. From those guys you should track. And they'd done nothing. The CIA has done nothing to cooperate with any official. They've been the most hidden organization ever. They've only one time have they ever been examined, and that was in Frank church's committee of 1973. 4. Frank Church, great, great senator. And they found a nest of evil that was so intense with so many assassinations. Sabotage against America's interests, against America's interests. And they told us the whole time it was for our interest. We killed people who ended up being heroes. And we paid the price. I mean, we're paying the price now insofar as we have come. We have no idea what's our own history. No idea. We've thwarted history. And we're aiming. We're going towards a very dangerous moment right now. But that's another discussion completely, you know.

[Sean Stone]

About the forces involved in the coup against the Shah in 79. I mean, 78, 79. That time period. Right. You saw it.

[Tucker Carlson]

I have my impression. I want to know which one you think. Which direction are you going?

[Sean Stone]

Oh, I think it was a coup. I think the. The US And British wanted to see him go.

[Tucker Carlson]

I agree.

[Sean Stone]

I think he was too. He wanted. He was too independent and powerful and they. I don't know if it came.

[Oliver Stone]

Well, they put him there in the first place.

[Sean Stone]

Yeah. But that doesn't mean that he didn't become too independent and powerful for their taste. And I think that. I don't know if it happened at the moment they discovered he had cancer, which was, I think, like 75, 6. They said, okay, he's weakening. We got to replace this. But I would say that the arc of crisis story, remember the arc of crisis that Huntington and Brzezinski were talking about in the late 70s of this idea of radical Islam? They were already perpetuating the notion of clash of civilizations at that time. And it's not just, you know, saying there's a clash of civilizations between orthodox Christianity and Islam. They were pushing for these. These rifts, as in Lebanon, as in. Well, not Syria at that point, but in Iran in particular. I think the fact that Khomeini was being protected in the west is very indicative. And that the BBC was broadcasting his messages from, you know, all of his messages being broadcast by the BBC in Iran is indicative because that's intelligence. That's how it works. It doesn't just work With a guy going in coup. There's different dimensions to it. You've got to prepare the population, you've got to put money towards this. You've got to make sure that you fly the guy in and say, okay, now he's your new leader. I mean they knew who Khomeini was. You know, how crazy it was to send him back, right?

[Tucker Carlson]

Twice in exile, you know, living in France, Paris, making tapes that they're spreading all over Iran, spreading the message. Very, very interesting what happened with that. And the shah had the 25 year old agreement that they had from 54 to 79 that was expiring. So these guys had a meeting because they knew when it. He was about to be a very, very powerful man. And that was a concern of theirs, of what happened there. But I wonder like some of these for you, like, do you have selfish reasons on things? You know, like even right now, it just happened where I said I can't find a book and it's called Mile High. Richard Condon, can you go look it up? He looks it up, he says, here we go, we found it. Right. You have a, you know, the element of doing a doc to say I was right there was. This is what happened. You know all the criticism that they write about, whatever you make, is there a desire for you to see get to the bottom of jfk? Like is there?

[Oliver Stone]

Of course, of course. Well, it seems like we have already accumulated such evidence, prima facie it seems. How can you deny it? How can you deny it? Especially now that we're going through so much revelation on conspiracies. Left, right. This is what the world is. It's like been working that way. The United States has been working duplicitously for years to create this empire that we have that we deny that we have. We have 800 bases. We're all over the world in every single spot. We have our finger everywhere. And we're stirring this constantly. We're busy like malevolent dwarfs, but we're there everywhere.

[Tucker Carlson]

And what concerns you about that?

[Oliver Stone]

We're heading towards nuclear war with. We created enemies that are not necessary. That's what mostly affects me because if we blow up this thing, it'll be like that scene on the beach when Fred is there, says, I don't know how it started, it'll be like that. But I know how it started because it started here. These people who are running Washington right now, these neoconservatives that are in charge are most dangerous people we've ever had in the World. They're the antithesis of what America was about. Antithesis?

[Tucker Carlson]

Who? Who? Who?

[Oliver Stone]

Well, it's. I would. Right now, in this time period, it goes back to the 1990s, when they formed up, but before that there was. Goes way back to the 1940s, before that to the 1990s. Right now it would be. You know, the Biden administration is playing with fire. They've taken this thing to the edge.

[Tucker Carlson]

They're now the neocons. They're the new neocons. The liberals are the new neocons. How weird is that?

[Oliver Stone]

Isn't that so bizarre?

[Tucker Carlson]

How weird is that, Oliver, for you.

[Oliver Stone]

The real liberals, people who are really into liberalism, like me, who care about it, the John Stuart Milkind are disgusted by these people who are saying pro war. They're pro interference in other people's affairs. They're trying to tell people how to live. That's not the way Mr. Mill described liberalism. Leave them alone. Let live and let live is my philosophy. And get along with your neighbors. What's going on now is Mr. Blinken and Sullivan and all these people that are in the administration are very dangerous people because they pushed this thing with Ukraine to a place where it had no American interest is at stake. None. But Mr. Biden, without a mandate, declared that we have to weaken. Russia without a mandate. He didn't put it up for voting. He said, do you want to go to war with Russia? Do you want to have American missiles flying into Russia? This is outrageous. It never would have happened, you realize in Kennedy's time, it would have been a declaration of war. That's what's going on without our knowing. It were asleep to that. Because it's like boiling the frog. They take it up a little incline by incline. Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

How do you feel for you, because the documentary you did with all the president's band, this is. Sean, as a guy in this documentary, you have Steve Bannon, Kash Patel, you have Roger Stone, you have Tucker Tucker. You have a bunch of Giuliani Flynn. Okay, you got all these guys where, you know, the media would say, sean, what are you doing talking to all these conspiracy theorists? You know, they're all MAGA and all this other stuff, you know, for you. And they went through this. What was it for you going through it as a director at the beginning with a level of skepticism you had. When you're hearing about election interference, election for all this other stuff. Did you go personally yourself as a director in evolution from the beginning to the end on Trump, Your impression of Trump?

[Sean Stone]

Well, so 2015, 16, I started working for RT America, right? That was in D.C. based group that had Chris Hedges, the Pulitzer Prize winning journalist, that had Tom Hartman, a leftist progressive guy, Jesse Ventura, Larry King. We had a lot of really interest, interesting journalists, right? And we were a dissident because at that point, as you know, the media is controlled. I've understood this since I was 7 years old, you know, being in JFK, watching the fallout from JFK, seeing the media reaction to JFK, how, you know, how it was dismissed by the mainstream media. Obviously some historians got it, but a lot of the mainstream never accepted that, that narrative, right? They said it's a great film but it's bad history and it's a conspiracy theory fantasy. So I understood from 7, 8 years old that the media was lying to us. From the first Iraq war through the Serbian war, through the second Iraq war, I knew all this stuff. I was watching it. I literally would try to tell people. So when I got a chance to work for rt, that was a way of actually having a platform for us dissidents to say things that were not acceptable on ABC, NBC, CNN, right? And they turned that in 2016, they demonized RT America into this Russian propaganda outlet. That was the. Remember when they said that the Russians interfered in the election? Half of that report, which was only like 12, 13 pages was about RT America. That was the Russian interference narrative in the Trump election was that RT America was pushing stories that they didn't like about fracking or about Syria or whatever it was. And they're saying we interfered in the election. I'm sitting there going, we're Americans, we have the right to speak. Our are, it's free speech in this country. We can say what we feel and think. We're doing journalistic work. So I understood this plot, this idea that Russia interfering with the election was so thin at that point in 2017 that after the election they released the ICA focusing on RT America. And I go, where's the Russian collusion there? What did the Russians do? Did they hack in our election machines? There's no evidence of them hacking into our election machines to switch votes. So what does that mean to say they interfered in the election? It's one of the CIA kind of words. Interference, Russian interference, misinformation. These are all CIA words that they put out there to confuse people. So at that point I didn't pay attention.

[Tucker Carlson]

Do you know that because you and your dad always talk about this stuff and you've been curious about this topic or through investigating it, you're like, this is the CIA. Words they use, society. Yeah.

[Sean Stone]

I mean, I've. I wrote a book on the New World Order, college thesis. I did Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura as a host. I did Buzzsaw as a host for many years before rt. So I've been familiar with history and Untold History of the United States. His docuseries. I worked as an editor for a year on. I gave him contributed ideas about some of the angles and points for it. So a lot of this is just my background. So again, when I saw the Russian collusion narrative in 2016 for Trump, I liked Trump coming in because I liked the fact that he was an outsider. I thought it was Bush, Clinton, we're stuck in this rigged game. And someone came in who said, hey, Putin, why don't we get along with Putin? We can talk, we can work with them, we can negotiate. I said, good for him. As soon as he said that, the whole Russian narrative starts to boil over in the media and everyone starts saying he's a Russian puppet. So I didn't pay attention in 2016-2020. I didn't really pay attention to the whole allegations against the Papadopoulos and Manafort and Carter Page and Flynn and Roger. Even though I knew Roger, I just didn't pay attention to it because I felt like, okay, this is gonna boil over. There's nothing there. If there's anything really there, it'll come out. But this is kind of ridiculous, right? This is years going on, years of this, accusations, people like Schwabisch, this idiot Schiff, who's now our senator out there saying there's Russian collusion and you just gotta see it with a certainty. Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And there is proof. I don't know what word he used, but saying the fact that we have proof that there was collusion.

[Sean Stone]

Yeah. And it's so embarrassing that this guy, he should be like McCarthy type. Right. I mean, he should have been called out and said, you know what? You're an embarrassment. He should not be nowhere near Congress or Senate. And the fact that California elected him, it just shows how. How brainwashed people are over there. Right. It's pretty Sad. I mean, McCarthy at least got to a place where he was making accusations and they couldn't back it up. And they basically said, you're done. This guy Schiff now wins Senate. It's disgusting. So Pelosi also would say things like that it's certain with probability or something. Like, she would say these things where it's like, we know that the Russians probably interfere. They would Use these words.

[Tucker Carlson]

But it worked, though. If you think about it, it worked on so many people. Yeah, but what did you learn at the end of it? You're spending time. Cash Patel is now got the head of FBI job. Right. Steve Bannon, who strategically, that guy's brain, the amount of credit he gets on the right for being strategic. He's up there, right?

[Oliver Stone]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

What they did to most of these guys, now they're in there, right? What was it at the end for you? Did you. I'm assuming you didn't vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020. Is that a fair assessment?

[Sean Stone]

I voted for him in 2020.

[Tucker Carlson]

You voted for him.

[Sean Stone]

2020 was very obvious what they were doing with the COVID to me.

[Tucker Carlson]

So when he lost, you voted for him then and was.

[Sean Stone]

Well, did he lose? Well, I'm a believer. I'm a believer that they rigged 2020.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, you're from that camp. Are you there as well?

[Oliver Stone]

I'm in the middle. I don't know. But there was a lot of evidence on Sean's side.

[Sean Stone]

No, I think Rudy had good instincts, but he didn't have the time. His forte is not he's going after Mafia, he sees the conspiracy, but he's not an election guy. When it comes to election fraud, there are certain ways of presenting and there's certain evidence. And I think that to this day, we know a lot of these things have been buried. Right. Let's be honest. Whether it was. It was certain districts. And if you can look at it very Simply, you think 2020 wasn't a weird thing. Trump got 75 million votes in 2020. Right. He won all the bellwethers. He easily won, except for the five or six states, counties that shut down for the night. And to me, that's, you know, I go back to 2000. I didn't like the 2000 election because I felt like, you know, this is weird. They. The chads, right? It all takes is one county to throw a whole state, right? The same. If you shut down elections and say, we're gonna come back tomorrow, and then the next day they get, you know, they basically have. They know exactly how many votes they needed to overcome Trump's lead in those five, six states. And that's the problem to me is when you stop counting and then come back the next day and, well, we got just enough to beat that lead. That's suspicious, right? Come on. You gotta say that doesn't add up to a logical person to say you would stop counting at any point. Stop the observance. At any point and then come back knowing how many points. It's like a football game where they say, we're going to. Two minutes to go. Your team's up by two touchdowns. We're going to come back tomorrow. And then you come back the next day and you go, yeah, we scored three touchdowns last night. I didn't see it. Where was the observers? That's my problem with the 2020 election.

[Tucker Carlson]

If your friends from 10 years ago who were closest to you hear you say something like that, would they say, yeah, Sean would say something like that?

[Sean Stone]

Sure.

[Tucker Carlson]

Or do you have anybody from 10 years ago that are like, sean, stop it.

[Sean Stone]

You know, in 2004, a lot of people suspected that the machines were rigged against Kerry. There was articles written about that in Ohio. It was a very, very controversial state. And we. Cause people started questioning the voting machines back then, and many Democrats were the ones questioning it all the way through 2018. We've got video in the Giuliani episode of Kamala and all these people saying, the voting machines right now. I can take you down there and show you how to hack these machines. So why is it in 2020 we couldn't question the voting machines anymore? Or the issue of how much you.

[Tucker Carlson]

Think this is gonna backfire on the Democrats?

[Sean Stone]

How much do you think it did?

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, I mean, election for sure, but that's one term, right? But do you think this is gonna be the types of an event that happened with Barry Goldwater, 60, 64, where Democrats, Republicans lost the African American vote for decades, and from 60, 64% of African Americans voted Democrat, the rest were conservative or independent. Four years later, went from 60 to 92% voting Democrat, and they got the black vote for 60 years. Do you think this was so monumental that Democrats may have had a blow to them that could last decades? Or you think it's just one term?

[Sean Stone]

I think Trump has the opportunity to create an historic presidency. I mean, the people around him, like we talk about Tulsi Gabbard in our series, you talk about Kash Patel, you talk about Bobby Kennedy and many others that are solid people with good instincts, right? That could transform our deep. They could fundamentally drain the swamp. Now, it's not going to be easy, but if they create the cultural shift, and I think it's there, a lot of people, that's why the red wave came in a way that even the popular vote won. People are sick of this system. Right? But the elections are key to me. And it's not about Trump versus Kamal or anybody. If we don't have a clear, like a blockchain style of transparency when it comes to elections. That's what scares me the most, is that, you know, we get to this place where you can rig machines, where you don't. Where you stop counting and say, we'll come back tomorrow. We need to get a clear way of doing an election where it's like a blockchain, where you can see the results. Because I think there is suspicion, by the way, around some of the down ballot votes this year to this day in some of the states that there are questions. I think if you have blockchain transparency, where it's like every vote is there, it's accounted for, you can go and you can check your vote and you can see where it. That's what we need to have as a modern society, and all done in one day, not over the course of a week or three months of voting. I mean, it's just gotta be really clear and simple.

[Tucker Carlson]

You know, who doesn't want that? Democrats don't want that.

[Sean Stone]

Oh, I know. I'm saying. But now is the time. If we change it, if we don't change it, I'm very concerned about our freedom.

[Tucker Carlson]

As a. Sean, would you consider yourself an independent or a libertarian?

[Sean Stone]

I'm independent. I don't fall into any category. I consider myself a constitutional Republican. I like the Constitution of the United States being a limited republic, being a limited federal government.

[Tucker Carlson]

You're a constitutional Republican?

[Sean Stone]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

And Oliver, what would you say you.

[Oliver Stone]

Are Independent now with the world shifting as it is? I'm certainly independent, but I'm leaning back, like my father, to the Republican side, because I'm disgusted, disgusted with the Democrats, and they're a constant attack. Actually, it's all their extremism of their attacks on Trump that have turned me off. The extremism of their attacks, such as? What are you talking about? Everything he said was. I mean, I've seen it in the newspapers. They say, falsely, he falsely says. Or they constantly give him an adjective, which is unfair. In other words, there's nothing objective written about him. And I saw Sean's documentary. It's wonderful. Actually, the. One of the most affecting chapters is the one on Giuliani, who I did not like. Giuliani had reached that place because of his rah rah patriotism in 2001. I thought it was disgusting. He was overboard. I really did. When he was most popular is when I hated him because I thought he was taking advantage of this thing. He was no longer a prosecutor. He was an Opportunist. And what happened was that he actually makes sense in this documentary. His whole position makes sense. He explains, explains himself. And it turned me around. I said, you know, I understand him. And now the newspapers are attacking him constantly like some kind of fraud. That's when I appreciate what he went through, you understand? It's like I'm a contrarian, I guess you could say. But it's good to have contrarians in our society. We need them. And I admire Sean, who is my son, who's done this on his own. I have nothing to do with his thinking. He's read his own books, he's formed his own conclusions. I was very impressed with what he just said. He explained these elections in a very clear, logical way to me. And frankly, we've been interfering in Russia so many times. I mean, Hillary Clinton is known for that 2006 period, the 2014 election, they were all over Russia. And here we don't. We never judge ourselves. We always say that's the. The other side is doing.

[Sean Stone]

We're known to rig elections like it's known the CIA has rigged elections over abroad. Right. We know that for a fact. So it's so hard. Why is it so difficult for us to fathom the CIA having rigged elections abroad could be involved? And it's the same chicken, chicken come home to roost.

[Oliver Stone]

Which raises, of course, the assassination attempts on Trump. I don't know, man. It's so strange.

[Tucker Carlson]

What do you think about it? Is there part of the goal?

[Oliver Stone]

You have to be disturbed by it, and there's still time to go. You know, look at all the damage that Biden administration is doing to Trump right now. I mean, he's. They're putting them in the spot. You know, the problem is that they know Trump is a hothead and might. I think he's smarter now. I think he's a little bit. But he's got to consider this as a threat to him. They want him to go to. They want to go to war or some kind of war, they trap him. Israel has blown up the Middle East. Blown it up. It's just like they remaking the Middle East. They're taking the. That's what they said they'd do. Netanyahu vowed to do this, and he's done it. So many of these countries are out of commission now. And now Iran is a fucking next target of this guy, this madman, and we're in his pocket. We have no apparent say in what he's going to do.

[Tucker Carlson]

Netanyahu, yes.

[Oliver Stone]

And AIPAC and All the Israeli mechanism that operates in the United States, our vote, our Congress means nothing. Netanyahu comes and addresses them three times. They stand up like dogs, clapping for everything he says, like dogs. Well, it was disgusting. The most disgusting moment.

[Sean Stone]

There's a good. Yeah, there's a good point that, you know, these wars in the Middle east, as Wesley Clark pointed out, it's basically the neocon agenda. And a lot of these neocons are dual Israeli citizens, right? And so it's like, who has benefited? We were with Shimon Peres when he said the Iraq war benefits us. You know, he said that during the. I remember very clearly, he's like, secures our border against Saddam. Right. On the Iraq side, the wars are all, you know, as Jeffrey Sachs pointed out, this is all Israel's policy with the Middle East. It's almost like we've basically said, okay, whatever Israel wants in the Middle east will do up and including the Syria thing, which I'm curious your position, but in the series we get into this, how much as we know, we supported creating these Al Qaeda in Iraq and ISIS groups, right? Jihadists, which we did in Afghanistan, by the way, in the 80s. And we did. We've done it in Libya against Gaddafi, which was insane. Right. And we did the same thing now with Syria, where again, you know, another terrorist group is now in charge. I mean, it's pretty wild to understand that we've been fomenting these jihads against going back to the days of Nasser, by the way, actually, there's a long history, I think Devil's Crusade is a good book on the topic about CIA sponsorship of Muslim Brotherhood types and others against any nationalist, any Arab nationalist. And who does that ultimately benefit, unfortunately, is Israel. Because Israel hated Nasser. Right. An Arab nationalist. It's not, from the American perspective, benefiting.

[Tucker Carlson]

Why do you think they're able to do that? Why do you think they're able to do that? Because the part about the dual citizenship, when you ask somebody who is pro Israel Zionist, they'll say, the reason why we have the dual citizenship is because when Israel became a country, they want a lot of Americans to go back, but they didn't want to give up their US Citizenship, so they made it where you could have dual citizenship. So that's the argument for that.

[Sean Stone]

They'll say, right, we have dual citizenship with France. I mean, I don't think there's an issue with dual citizenship. The problem is that the loyalty that we find tends to be a Zionist approach. And Israel itself is not, to me, it's Like, I don't say there's anything issue with Israel's existence, but the Zionist position is oftentimes Greater Israel.

[Tucker Carlson]

But what I want to ask you is extreme because in order to be able to do that. Okay, so you're in a space where the controversy came out about Harvey, right? In Hollywood, Harvey Weinstein. And for the longest time you saw pictures of Michelle Obama. Harvey Weinstein is such a. I don't know if you have this clip or not, Rob. Such a wonderful, you know, beacon of. I mean, she would use some words that you talk about, a Billy Graham type, right? Is that the one? Rob, can you play this clip? You know, go back and play the clip. Harvey Weinstein for organizing this amazing day.

[Oliver Stone]

Harvey.

[Tucker Carlson]

Lauren a little bit. Rob, this is possible because of Harvey. He is a wonderful human being, wonderful.

[Oliver Stone]

Good friend and just a powerhouse. And the fact that he and his.

[Tucker Carlson]

Team took the time to make this happen for all of you should say something not about me. You see, you see this, right? You see Oprah, you see all these guys in Hollywood. Hillary, Hillary, all of these guys that would say stuff about, you know, Harvey Weinstein, well, what a fricking, you know, great guy. And then all of a sudden, why are people saying all this stuff? What control does he have? Everybody, you want a job in Hollywood, you want a job in this, you got to go to. And then disruption shows up. Oh, shit. Now everybody wants to throw him under the bus. What happened to those 30 years you said nothing about?

[Sean Stone]

Sure.

[Tucker Carlson]

What happened, because he had power and control. So this is where I'm going with it. He had leverage. The leverage was, if you want a job, you got to do XYZ for me. And I'm a boss, okay? I'm not in the world. I've read about it. Just like what everybody else has read about. If Israel is Israel, aipac, all of these guys, right? And you know, Sachs, the interview that was done with Tucker, you know that there's many of these right now that are coming up. If they have this much power, what leverage do they have to be able to constantly negotiate more favorably for themselves over the American people?

[Sean Stone]

I think, you know, the question. You have to think about it as a. It's like a club in a way, right? And the amount of financial influence, amount of. Think about the banking side of things, think about the. The infrastructure of banking. A lot of this does connect to Judaism and is not to say that they're bad people, but essentially that, yes, there is a deep, deep, deep love and loyalty to Israel. It's interesting because we could be Israeli citizens based on our ancestry. Our ancestry of loose stone is not Zionist. Our ancestry is much more cosmopolitan. And this kind of goes to the heart of a lot of the issues, I think, at the beginning of Zionism, where the cosmopolitan Jews who said, we want to assimilate into the cultures, right, Of Germany, of Europe, of America, and those who said, we want a nation, a land. And I think that there is a psychological factor to Jewish people basically saying, you have to give to Israel. You have to be part of Israel. You have to. That's your nation.

[Tucker Carlson]

How does that happen, though?

[Sean Stone]

That starts in the Zionist phase of the late, but it picks up after World War I.

[Tucker Carlson]

Late. What were you gonna say? Late war?

[Sean Stone]

Well, late 1900s is the birth, right? But then it picks up after World War I, but not really. It becomes. Remember, the Zionists made deals with Nazis. The Zionists actually said Hitler was a good thing because they made a deal, various agreements, to start to move Jews because they wanted to take Palestine. At the time that Palestine was mostly Arab, right? So they knew they were a small population. They had to bring more Jews in from Europe. And so I hate to say it, but the Holocaust, they used that Holocaust to basically say, we can now create a state. And that was obviously the energy that was given by Russia and America and all the UN Countries to say, Israel can have a state.

[Tucker Carlson]

And by the way, you know what I'll say to that? So here's. I trust my enemies very well, by the way. I trust my enemies more than I trust my friends sometimes. You know why? Because what does your enemy think about next movie coming up? I don't know. The competitive space. I'm assuming there's competition with your name and, you know, all these other guys that are making movies, right? I'm assuming the competition, if they can find a way to have 7,500 negative reviews written on Rotten Tomatoes about a movie you come out with, I'm assuming the dirty enemy would probably do something like that to hurt you, right? I'm assuming the enemy would do whatever they can, that I'm trying to raise a billion dollars from somebody or half a billion dollars from somebody to find a way for that deal to not get done if it becomes public, right? I've experienced this with guys when I was trying to sell my company. The enemy would call the guy that wanted to buy the company and say, hey, you sure you want to go through this? And then, boom, we were able to get the deal done, and we sold it for a quarter of a billion dollars. Okay. But I know I trust the enemy. All I'm trying to ask, I'm not surprised that Israel did that. Good for them that they're doing that. I applaud you for being a good negotiator. Great. But all I'm asking is if America, you read these books, and we've all read these books. When you go through the book, the question I want to ask is, what leverage do they have for America to continue to cave when negotiating? We also want this, end this, end that, end this. Okay, okay. That's not how negotiation works. Like earlier, we're talking about when you're signing a talent, right? Hey, I want six massages a day. I want my gym to be here. I want that, I want this. No, at some point, we're not doing that. But what leverage does this person have for you to say yes to 80% of their requests? What are we getting in exchange to say yes to this? And no matter how many people I ask that question of.

[Sean Stone]

Well, I think there's a couple factors. As I mentioned, financial. I think you do have a lot of Jewish banking. We know that that's historical. They're deeply tied into the banking system, including to the Federal Reserve. I mean, you look at, even in Europe, the Rothschilds were the ones that got the letter from Balfour. I mean, the Rothschild obviously are a very wealthy, influential family. Right. And that's not the only one. There was the Warburgs and others that were very influential in building our Federal Reserve system here. So Schiff and all these families. So again, you're talking money, but you're also talking about a base from strategic perspective. I think that the US and British saw Israel as a base into the Arab world, which I call Israel the Last Crusade, the Crusader Kingdom, because remember, as you know, historically we fought the West Catholic Church, you know, sent crusaders out to try to recapture Jerusalem in 1095, and they did. And then they got kicked out a couple hundred years later. Right. But they never forgave that. So I think that the Catholics and the west, psychologically and militarily and historically, actually see Israel as the Crusader Kingdom that gives them a foothold into the Middle East. So this is a thousand year war. And that's actually also how a lot of the Arabs see it, which is why people get caught up on the Jewish thing. And they miss the point of the Arabs looking at it as the west trying to have a Crusader Kingdom called Israel in the Middle East. And most, as we know, most of the Jews that are there are from Europe. Right? They're from, you know, whether they're Khazarian or whatnot. So they're not from that land. At least maybe they were thousands of years ago, maybe they weren't. But the point is that this is an issue in the psychology of the Arab world, the Crusades coming back to haunt them. I think that's a big issue. And people don't look at it that way because they think of it as Jewish versus Muslim. And I think it's much deeper because, as you know, the Jews and Muslims have gotten along. The Jews used to go to the Muslim countries when they were persecuted by the Catholics. When they were persecuted in Spain. The Jews and Muslims both were persecuted in Spain and kicked out. Right, By Ferdinand and Isabel in 1495. Right. When 1492, when Columbus was sailing, they kicked the Jews and the Muslims out of Spain. At that time. They kicked them out of, as you know, across Europe many times. They purged them. They would go to Muslim countries, Jews would. And they all lived together side by side in Palestine and obviously in Turkey and other countries. So it wasn't Jewish, Muslim thing. I think this is a West versus east thing very much.

[Tucker Carlson]

I don't know if I disagree with that. But I think the question I ask is the leverage. What leverage do it have? Is it just money? Is it really just money?

[Oliver Stone]

You don't mention aipac.

[Tucker Carlson]

But even if you go with that, right, and you look at how much AIPAC gives, for example, okay, and again, I'm just playing devil's advocate here to get to the bottom of the argument.

[Oliver Stone]

You always do.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, and I enjoy that. I think that's the right way to be. But think about Elon Musk. Right? Okay, so how much did AIPAC Give, Total Contribution? 2024. Can you pull that up, Rob? I actually don't know the number. Total. What is this?

[Sean Stone]

According to Open Secrets.

[Tucker Carlson]

So pro Israel is this AIPAC, two Republicans, they gave 2.2 million. Two Democrats, they gave 2.2 million. Okay, so a total of 4.4 million. And they gave it to pro Israel PAC candidates. So they give $29,000 more to Republicans than Democrats. Not a big difference. But can you tell me, look up total, how much money AIPAC gave to everybody last year? Total money AIPAC gave. Okay. In 2024. In 2024. Yeah. Just typing in 2024. I actually just want to know. I guess you pulled the first one out. It's the same number, really. So the number is how much? Okay, they give 2.4 million. In lobbying, the amount of contribution they got was $43 million. Okay? That's AIPAC, by the way. I thought the number was in the billions. So $43 million. Can you go type in how much Elon Musk gave Donald Trump to a pac?

[Oliver Stone]

Does this include the package expenditures or is a PAC excluded from that?

[Tucker Carlson]

So watch this. Elon Musk spends $277 million, right, to back Trump and Republican candidates. Realistically, one could say that's 50 times more. Right? 55 times more. So again, for me, I really want to know.

[Oliver Stone]

You're ignoring the concept of influence and how long APAC is going to.

[Tucker Carlson]

I don't think it's the right number you're pulling up because I think, Rob, they spent on PAC $25 million to get rid of Bowman. So that's why I don't think that's the right number. And type in how much did AIPAC spend to get rid of Bowman? Can you just Google that? Go for it.

[Oliver Stone]

Packs. Private. I mean, we don't know the numbers on the PACS.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, the NGOs are the ones that we don't know who the contributors are. Right. The NGOs, which. Okay, there it is. That one right there. AIPAC has sent. Spent over $100 million on 2024 elections. That's the number I want to see. So very bad sign for democracy. AIPAC has spent over $100 million. AIPAC, billionaire funded super PAC, has helped defeat two of the most vocal opponents of Israel. Which one of them was. Yeah, Jamaal Bowman. And they spent a lot of money to get rid of that guy. How much was it to get rid of him? Can you pull up that number? I don't know why. I think it was $25 million. Could have been a little bit more than that. But the reason why I'm making this argument is I'm making the argument to say some may not say anything about Elon because maybe Elon is supporting what you support.

[Oliver Stone]

Right?

[Tucker Carlson]

It's like, okay, hey, great. And by the way, I'm pro Elon. I like what Elon is doing. But all I'm trying to say is, you know, I get the frustration with the Israeli. I lived in Iran, so I have my own story with Muslims. I saw what that was like, and I witnessed it every day. 11 years I went to Germany, lived at a refugee camp. There's a lot of Muslims there, a lot of them. Pakistani, Afghanis, a lot of them. Okay, I saw what happened there. I've had an insurance company. I built from 0 to 60,000 agents. We have a lot of Muslims in the company. Guess what? Phenomenal experience. I had the experience there. But it's not 100% across the board with everybody, right? America's 13% black. Our agency was 24% black. America's 24% Hispanic. Our agency was 51. 1% Hispanic. That we. When we build the insurance agency. And I got a chance to watch these guys because we're in 50 states. But sometimes, you know, it's. It's. It can go in a direction where I just want to know what is their leverage? Is the leverage holding people hostage is the level. Like, I wrote a book, fiction book, called the Academy. And the Academy is about a secret society that's been around for a couple thousand years, that they recruit young kids and they build them into the future leaders at home. Many presidents, many have gone through this, you know, secret society called the Academy. And one of the stories in there is about the villain is a former deputy director of SAVAK in Iran under the Shah, who left early. And he was working with the Shah. His name is Parviz Sabeti. I think if you can look him up, It's a very common American name. Rob, you should be able to spell that out easily. And this deputy director of SAVAG, who ends up having some of the qualities of the villain, eventually finds me, okay. And he reaches out to me, says, you wrote a book. Said, yes. He reads the book. Type in P A R V I Z. And then P A, R, V I Z. P A R V I Z. Right there. Okay? So this is him. He was a former deputy director of savak. And, you know, you watch documentaries on him and what the SAVAK did in Iran.

[Sean Stone]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

You know, these guys had. Well, some of it is awful, but some of it is, you know, where they were. The CIA, the Mossad. So all of it can be said awful.

[Sean Stone]

CIA, Mossad, Savak, MI6, they were all training them too. Assad and Ciao.

[Tucker Carlson]

So we can say all of them are awful. Right. They've all been trained by. And then you hear what he was able to record with mullahs and Hezbollahs, who were these clergy. And then he would get stuff with women. And so he had this footage on them. Right. And that's a form of hostage. You better say this or else I'm trying to find out, is there anything Israel has as a leverage. I'm not just saying blackmail. That's one of the forms.

[Sean Stone]

Epstein was apparently Mossad and CIA. Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

I had his brother on our Podcast. He was a few hours. Yeah.

[Sean Stone]

Does he think that he was both?

[Tucker Carlson]

I asked him. He was very gray and he was uncomfortable answering that. We did a two hour podcast. He did tell me that he had a mentor. Who's the mentor that he talked about about Epstein? Do you remember the mentor he brought up? He talked about a mentor that taught Epstein everything. And then when I brought it up, he got very, very uncomfortable very quickly. That guy right there, Stephen Hoffenberg, I don't know if you've ever heard of this guy or not. No. Clement Rigging. Morton 415. Yeah, he helped. He was one of the guys that apparently played a role of a mentor. But there was another guy as well, Rob Epstein's mentor right there.

[Sean Stone]

He was found dead.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah. Were you reading that he was found.

[Sean Stone]

Dead in his apartment?

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, he was found dead. Jeffrey Epson, convicted fraudster, found dead in his apartment, but meaning he learned his model. So on the Epstein side, Mark never told me anything about Mossad. I asked him, I said, were you also Mossad himself? He was uncomfortable answering that direction. I wouldn't be surprised. But that's the question. My biggest question is the leverage. What did they have? There's no way. Do they have it on Congress so many times?

[Sean Stone]

I think it's both.

[Oliver Stone]

I mean, it's the threat of saying, we're going to campaign against you. That's just enough.

[Sean Stone]

Exactly. It's both private and public. I mean, look at. We just saw the Jeff Sachs interview today. All these newspapers are saying Jeffrey Sachs is anti Semitic. Conspiracy theories for saying that Israel's basically foreign policy is what we're running in the Middle east, which is pretty evident. I don't think that's anti Semitic to say. I don't say that.

[Tucker Carlson]

I don't think that's anything bad to say.

[Sean Stone]

Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

I think go research it and investigate it. I mean, March 2022, when you were here and Ukraine had happened, when did Russia, Ukraine happen? A month prior, at February. And if you remember, you were uncomfortable. Like, you know, at first you're like, ah. And you and I were both a little bit skeptical about Zelensky and Ukraine. And at that time, when you said it, everybody's like, oh, my God, you know, how could you say that the dictator Putin is the next Hitler. This Oliver Stone is so out of touch.

[Sean Stone]

And the ghost of Kiev was still riding high. And then that was a CIA story, remember?

[Tucker Carlson]

Right.

[Sean Stone]

And all these different things, you know, Zelensky calling and saying the documentary you.

[Tucker Carlson]

Did was just insane.

[Oliver Stone]

Ukraine on fire.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah. Ukraine On Fire was phenomenal.

[Oliver Stone]

Yeah, I learned a lot because we actually paid attention to Ukraine. After the Putin interviews, that helped me. He said to me, I said, what's the big deal about Ukraine? You know, I thought it was another Eastern European country that had gone to NATO. He said, for you, it's not a big deal from us. It's a very big deal. He says that on the tape. And I think I finally understood the importance of Ukraine because they've been invaded twice through the underbelly, through Ukraine, twice by Poland, and they were invaded by Napoleon. They were invaded by the Woodrow Wilson set troops. Sixteen armies fought against the Red. The Bolshevik Revolution. Sixteen armies led by Britain and the United States, France, Poland, Poland sent huge amount of men, too.

[Tucker Carlson]

You met a lot of people, right? World leaders. You met Putin. You met Maduro, I think.

[Oliver Stone]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

You met Chavez, Lula Castro, Netanyahu. Which one of them?

[Oliver Stone]

Shimon Perez and Netanyahu. Yeah, you're right.

[Tucker Carlson]

Which one of them. That after you spent time with them, walked away. You had a bad impression of them first, but later on you're like, well, now what? I don't have a bad impression. Which one of them were. You're like, oh, I was neutral. But I walked away saying, I don't know if I like this guy.

[Oliver Stone]

Netanyahu. Netanyahu, Yeah. I thought he was a mad. He was very extreme. Back in 2002, he was going on, and then the bomb went off as he was talking to us. It's in the film.

[Sean Stone]

It's called Persona Non Grata.

[Oliver Stone]

What?

[Sean Stone]

Persona non Grata.

[Oliver Stone]

Persona non Grata. Yeah. Because he goes over to the window and he says, look, that's. And he's right. There was a bomb that was going off in a grocery store. So he was, like, very concerned, but he had suffered greatly because his brother John and Johan was killed in the. In the raid in Uganda, wasn't it? Uganda.

[Sean Stone]

Uganda. Raid against.

[Oliver Stone]

They made a movie about it. What was it called?

[Sean Stone]

Yeah, I don't remember the film.

[Oliver Stone]

Yeah, the Uganda. The dictator of Uganda had taken hostages, and the Israelis went in with a. With a commando attack, and they succeeded. And they made two movies about it, one with Charles Bronson, and it was wonderful. But his brother was the only one killed in that raid. From the Israeli side, he was killed at the very end. So he's a hero in Israel. There was a lot of vengeance, personal hatred of the Muslim. I felt that with him, that he did not trust them at all. And I felt that it was echoed by. But other people like Rabin and I also Peres Shimon was saying, you know, we have to get along always. That was his. But at the same time he also said, you cannot trust the Arabs because what they write, what their handwriting, the way they write is very flowery. And it doesn't, it's not objective, like scientific. That's his interpretation. So it was an interesting viewpoint. Even Shimon, who was as humanitarian a person as, as I know, had distrust of the Arabs. And that's, it's fundamental. My wife, my first wife was Lebanese. So I felt differently. I liked them. I spent time in Lebanon before the war. 75. So I have no problem. And like Sean says, I feel like it's closer to the Crusades than it is to a religious issue.

[Tucker Carlson]

So Netanyahu, East, West, Netanyahu was the only one that you walked away.

[Oliver Stone]

You know, he was dangerous. He was, because he had such passion, such passion. And he had a desire. He was young and strong and amazing stamina. Look at this. He's lasted like 20, like Putin, he's lasted 23 some years and in business like this. And look what he's done, though. He's taking this closer to nuclear and the nuclear winner than ever. There's no other person alive that is as dangerous. He's lobbied actively for a war against Iran, which is going to be a war not just against Iran. It's going to be a war against China, it's going to be a war against Russia. It's a very dangerous man. I mean, Syria, he's gloating, he's gloating over Syria, but that's not over. It's going to come back and haunt him. This thing is so ugly. It's gotten out of hand. And that's because of us supporting Israel blindly without ever questioning them. Kennedy questioned them. That was the whole point that, you know, Kennedy said this nuclear thing is going to stop. He said we're not going to give them nuclear weapons. And he was adamant about it and he was going to stop it. When Johnson took over after the assassination, Johnson turned a blind eye to it. When we knew for sure that they had a weapon in 67, Johnson made sure they didn't announce it. The Pentagon did not announce it.

[Sean Stone]

What do you think also about, you know, this policy shift? It wasn't like it was always adamantly whatever Israel wants until 2001. That's when the neocons take over. That's when the 911 justifies all these wars in the Middle east. So called justifies, obviously. What did it do? Did it bring benefit to the American people. Did it bring stabilize anything? No, we destabilized that region. But as I said, it's been all Israel policy and mostly Netanyahu policy. And Netanyahu is closer to Hamas. I mean, that's what's really curious, you know, when you look at the history that, as you know, Netanyahu and company hated Arafat, right. So they as back in the 80s, they actually allowed Hamas to grow. That's now known that Israel was essentially allowing Hamas to grow into this. Into this beast because it played off against Arafat's, you know, PLO and those guys, Pata and those guys. So they use that. And I think that's what's so curious is that Hamas is almost, it truly is Netanyahu's best weapon. I mean, at the moment that he was being indicted in the Supreme Court, I think there's a new documentary about Bibi's file. I think it's called. It's Nominated. Yeah, it's being nominated for best picture, exposing all this corruption that he was charged with. He was gone. And then October 7th comes and it justifies everything. It's like these moments that justify war as, you know, very much provocative.

[Oliver Stone]

You should study that.

[Tucker Carlson]

The BB Files, the Bibi files, I think.

[Oliver Stone]

Well, it came at that very strange moment when he's about to go. Remember how close he came to being evicted?

[Tucker Carlson]

So the angle you're taking with him is the moment you realize what happened to his brother in Uganda, which was the only one you're saying that died. From that moment on, this went from being, you know, just a job or a career that I'm going to do because I love Israel, to personal passion. A personal passion. Crusade, cause, correcting and injustice.

[Sean Stone]

Well, we didn't know him before, so you can't say what he was.

[Oliver Stone]

Well, I knew him at that point, but I'm saying.

[Sean Stone]

But before. And he was a j. You know, those guys were true believers from the beginning. But he, you know, people say he was part of killing Rabin. He created that atmosphere. If nothing else, Netanyahu did remember when Rabin was killed. Netanyahu was part of that atmosphere.

[Tucker Carlson]

Who was Ayontan was an Israeli military who commanded the Sayerette Matkal during the.

[Oliver Stone]

He's a Harvard graduate, I think.

[Tucker Carlson]

Was he Harvard graduate? Yeah.

[Oliver Stone]

Briefly attend. Oh, he briefly attended United States. He was a real hero.

[Tucker Carlson]

After serving the Israeli military during the Sixth Day War, he briefly attended Harvard University before transferring Hebrew University, Jerusalem, 1960. Thereafter he was studied, returned to military in Israel. So what year did he die? 76. Is this his older brother? Yes, this is his older brother?

[Oliver Stone]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

How many years apart are they? Can you check to see when Bibi was born? Because he's 46, I don't think BB's into. Okay, so three years older. Got it. Interesting. And this has been a commitment he's made to his brother to seek his vengeance. Is that kind of how you process it?

[Oliver Stone]

It's the origin of this passion, don't.

[Tucker Carlson]

You think for somebody to get to that level of power, you almost need something like this to get to that level. I mean, look at Trump. He doesn't drink any alcohol. Why not? You know the story with the brother Fred. Right? We hear those stories. Right.

[Oliver Stone]

Although it was a decision before.

[Tucker Carlson]

It was a decision before. You're right, because he told him, look, listen to me, never drink alcohol. Never drink alcohol. And he finally, he's like, I'm not gonna do it. And he tells his kids.

[Oliver Stone]

Did he learn that from Roy Cohn? I don't know if Roy Cohn was.

[Sean Stone]

Told Roy was a drinker. Remember in the movie.

[Tucker Carlson]

Did you watch the Apprentice?

[Sean Stone]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

What'd you think about it?

[Oliver Stone]

I saw it twice.

[Tucker Carlson]

Me, too. I saw it twice in the first week.

[Oliver Stone]

Mitch enjoyed it. Very well done.

[Tucker Carlson]

What was your impression?

[Oliver Stone]

I didn't walk away thinking that Trump was the monster of all time. That was part of that whole campaign. That's why the Democrats overdid it. They overdid everything on Trump.

[Tucker Carlson]

I don't know why.

[Oliver Stone]

I always said to you, if you remember correctly, I said, the worst president we've ever had was George Bush. George H.W. george W. Bush. And I told you why. Because he started the whole war on terror. And I said, what's Trump compared to that? Why are the Democrats having this hysteria about derangements around? And no one paid attention. But wait until this thing is cleared. If we ever get through it, we're going to have to look back at that period from 2001.

[Tucker Carlson]

How do you think?

[Oliver Stone]

And that phony election with the chads and all that, that was the worst moment for me in this century. I remember that night so well when I was going south with his Scalia jumping in on the Florida thing and saying, we have to. There's an irregularity here. And then they. They suspended the recount.

[Tucker Carlson]

Remember, you wanted Gore at that time.

[Oliver Stone]

I did want Gore, yes. And I think it was a key election. That was the whole century turned on it in a way. It was a strange date. It was one of those things, like the McKinley election in 1900.

[Tucker Carlson]

How different you think the relationship's going to be when you're saying Kennedy and Israel, how do you think the relationship is going to be?

[Oliver Stone]

Trump was monitoring them and saying that. What are they doing?

[Tucker Carlson]

I get that. I'm just saying they're not allowing them.

[Oliver Stone]

To be the power in the Middle East.

[Tucker Carlson]

How do you think it's going to be with Trump?

[Oliver Stone]

I'm worried about that part of it the most because I like the possibility Trump could be, as Sean said, a crusading president. He could be really a change against war. He could move away from all these policies. But his commitment to Israel is insane because it's wholehearted and he has no modification on it. And he doesn't understand the Arab position. He doesn't understand history. Frankly, I wish Sean could spend some time with him.

[Sean Stone]

Well, no, his daughter's husband's father is Lebanese. Right. They've got. Isn't he the new coordinator for some of these affairs?

[Oliver Stone]

Well, that'd be nice, but the Adelson money is huge, isn't it?

[Sean Stone]

But I do think. I feel that if anyone can negotiate peace, I don't think that Trump likes Netanyahu. I think he has to remember that Netanyahu was the first person to call Joe Biden in 2021 or 2020 and congratulate him.

[Tucker Carlson]

He won't forget that.

[Sean Stone]

I don't think Trump forgets that. I think Trump doesn't. I don't think Trump likes Netanyahu. I think that he will. If anyone can bring peace, it is Trump, because he has to factor the Saudi position. The Saudis have gotten closer to Iran. It's not what it was years ago. They're actually making peace. Their bricks are here. I think he has to realize that this escalation would lead to World War Three. He has to see that now. And so if anyone can start to work out a deal to say, okay, how can we accommodate the Palestinians, Give them some livelihood, give them some economy. I mean, Trump's gotta understand that's the only future. He knows that he knows. You know, you start bombing things, you start destroying. It ruins economies, it ruins cultures. He has to see the path forward now is gonna be negotiating with the neighbors, getting them involved.

[Oliver Stone]

Well, this is a key moment then in history, isn't it?

[Tucker Carlson]

But I don't think. Here's my impression of Trump. I was on Jesse Waters two nights ago, and I said, you know what happens when you're handsome, rich, and met every famous celebrity in the world? You know what edge you have? One, no girl can sway you because you've been around beautiful women your entire life. Number two, there's nothing you can give him financially for him to be. Ooh, Ah. Oh, my God, what a great painting. All this nothing. So you can't buy him. And number three is he's not enamored by anybody. There is no celebrity he's gonna meet where he's gonna be like, oh, my God, I can't believe I'm gonna give.

[Oliver Stone]

Him the Nobel Peace Prize.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, I think. But I think after he does what he does.

[Oliver Stone]

But don't give it to him like Obama prematurely.

[Tucker Carlson]

But I think one thing with him, every single time I've heard him talk about Netanyahu, it's always the we'll see. And that's key. I hope so, because we'll see is the pressure's on. Who, you?

[Sean Stone]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Bibi. Meaning you can't try to abuse this relationship. Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, we'll see what you're going to be doing.

[Oliver Stone]

Delivered Syria.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's right. But that's. That's Biden, right? That's not under his watch. That's under Biden's.

[Oliver Stone]

I wonder. Yeah, Very key moment.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, again, it goes back to seeing if there's one thing we learned from Trump in first term. He's not a guy that likes war. He's not a fan of it. And how many people. He said the other day in an interview after winning, he spoken personally. Did you hear how many world leaders he said he's spoken to? He said he's spoken over a hundred world leaders already. World leaders. This is not Jamie Dimon. This is not billionaires. This is not Jeff Bezos. This is not Tim Cook, although he's met with them as well. And look at Trudeau, Canada. All of a sudden, you're getting stories about the fact that he may be stepping down and designing and all this stuff.

[Oliver Stone]

Yeah, that was interesting. As well as. Don't forget Venezuela, which, of course has a lot of oil.

[Tucker Carlson]

What is you. Have you. You've said some good things about Maduro sometimes.

[Oliver Stone]

I said good things about Chavez. I. Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

Why Maduro, though? What? What? What?

[Oliver Stone]

I don't know Maduro. I met him a few times with Hugo. Listen, I'm. Again, it's. I told you earlier, the Democrats were so hysterical about Trump that I. It turned. Turned me off. If you look at how hysterical the United States has been on Maduro and the Venezuelan revolution. Yeah, it turns me off because we've lied, cheated, put other people into. Call them President, we played every dirty trick on Venezuela we can. Starving them, suffering them. And they've withstood this as best as they could. And for that, they're the underdog, man. They're the revolutionaries. In this case, believe it or not. Yes. They're not a tyranny because people can leave. They leave all the time.

[Tucker Carlson]

You don't think Maduro is a tyranny?

[Oliver Stone]

No, because they can leave whenever they want. They can walk across the border. Those people are there because there is.

[Tucker Carlson]

A Bolivarian destroyed so many people's lives.

[Oliver Stone]

And how many people did they make? I mean, you have to go back to the beginnings when he educated that population. He gave them a life. They didn't have a life.

[Tucker Carlson]

See, that's the part, Oliver, like, see, that's why you're unique.

[Oliver Stone]

You don't pay attention to 98, 99.

[Tucker Carlson]

The reason why you're unique. The reason why you're unique and it's tough to put you in a place is one minute you'll say one thing.

[Oliver Stone]

No, I'm for the people.

[Tucker Carlson]

I know. But what I'm saying is this guy's not for. For his people. This guy's not for his people. You know, when you, When I met the inflation lifestyle.

[Oliver Stone]

The inflation has a lot to do with the United States too. The lifestyle, I don't know.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, but, but the. It has to do with United States. When you're saying we put the sanctions on buying oil and doing all of that stuff is that. Yeah.

[Oliver Stone]

And all the dirty that go on.

[Tucker Carlson]

I mean, he just lost the election to.

[Oliver Stone]

How do you know that's America's interpretation of it?

[Tucker Carlson]

Not necessarily. That's the, his interpretation is the fact that he won 51.2% or something like that.

[Oliver Stone]

You know, the other candidate was Mario Corino Machado, right wing, right wing lady. She's pretty wild. She's pretty much the old way. She's very clear distinction going back to the old Venezuela. There's no hope there.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, I had her on the podcast.

[Oliver Stone]

Well, I haven't met her. Yeah, well, please don't fall for the propaganda.

[Tucker Carlson]

You especially this. Here's what I would tell you. Maduro, if you are able to go to Venezuela to do an interview with him, I'd love to join you. I'd love to talk to him.

[Oliver Stone]

Okay.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, if you're, if you're.

[Oliver Stone]

Maybe I'll investigate that.

[Tucker Carlson]

I'd love to go talk to him.

[Oliver Stone]

If Truman turns Truman, I mean, if Trump turns his capacity on Venezuela, then we're going to have another War, that's going to be ugly, too. We don't want that.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, this is not a. This is not.

[Oliver Stone]

Those are the two threats right now, Iran and Venezuela.

[Tucker Carlson]

I have a lot of educated Venezuelans who are good family people.

[Oliver Stone]

Yes, I know this.

[Tucker Carlson]

Who escaped, who came here, who will say things about Maduro that is absolute.

[Oliver Stone]

Yes, I've heard them. I've heard them, believe me.

[Sean Stone]

I've heard that he's a socialist, essentially. Yeah, right.

[Tucker Carlson]

Not just any kind of socialist.

[Oliver Stone]

He's a Bolivarian.

[Sean Stone]

Okay, well, socialist. But I think that's, that's the question is, is that really the best path forward at this point? And I think holding on to the socialist ideal feels antiquated.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, what do you think about me, Lay?

[Oliver Stone]

It's. I think he's working in his way. Absolutely. Everybody from Argentina tells me that not everybody. Some people are suffering. Yes. But the truth is you can feel both ways. You can.

[Tucker Carlson]

Respectfully, you are weird, different. And I love it.

[Oliver Stone]

They're not necessarily a contradiction.

[Tucker Carlson]

They are not necessarily a contradiction. Well, I know you got a flight to catch. By the way, Sean, before we wrap up, where can people find all of President's Men?

[Sean Stone]

Yeah, for sure. All the President's Men is on Tucker Carlson's network at this time. Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

By the way, I thought it was ranked. Is this the one that was number one on Apple or.

[Sean Stone]

No, not yet. We haven't gone to Apple. It's only here. My website, Sean Stone.info has links to like all my, you know, all my work, documentaries, books.

[Tucker Carlson]

Can we put all of that below, Rob?

[Sean Stone]

That might be a good place that people can link to.

[Tucker Carlson]

So, okay, so go to your website and then from there they can go directly to this.

[Sean Stone]

Exactly.

[Tucker Carlson]

We'll put both of those links.

[Sean Stone]

They can find other documentaries and projects and Hollywood DC is a documentary talking about. You're talking about the influence of politics and the media. Right. And journalism and Hollywood and film. We get into that in the hour long special. Actually, that's a good documentary as well.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, we're gonna drive to that. And Sean, I've spent time with your dad. I hadn't spent time with you, but dude, you're freaking interesting as hell.

[Sean Stone]

Well, thank you.

[Tucker Carlson]

And I really enjoyed talking to you as. Just talking to you. You know, it was interesting hearing your perspective. We know the great Oliver Stone, but this was phenomenal having both of you guys here. What a great conversation. And again, put the link below till next time. And. And maybe our next time will be in Venezuela sometime. Maybe so maybe we'll go to Venezuela.

[Oliver Stone]

Maybe we'll come around.

[Sean Stone]

You might not. You might not make it out, though, Patrick.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, then that would validate my point. I'd call Oliver. I'm like, oliver, come get me. You gotta come get me.

[Sean Stone]

I'm joking.

[Tucker Carlson]

Anyways, guys, God bless everybody. Take care. Bye.