“The Luxury Watch Bubble" - Roman Sharf REVEALS: Luxury Watch Lies, Market Crash & Watches To Own | PBD Podcast | Ep. 507

Summary

PBD Podcast Episode 507: "The Luxury Watch Bubble" Featuring Roman Sharf

Host: Patrick Bet-David
Guest: Roman Sharf, Founder and CEO of Roman Watches
Duration: Approximately 101 minutes
Release Date: [Assumed based on knowledge cutoff]

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1. Introduction

In Episode 507 of the PBD Podcast, host Patrick Bet-David engages in an in-depth conversation with Roman Sharf, a seasoned expert in the luxury watch industry. The episode, titled "The Luxury Watch Bubble," delves into the intricacies of the high-end watch market, exploring topics such as market dynamics, authenticity issues, investment potential, and consumer behavior.

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2. Roman Sharf’s Journey into the Watch Business

Background and Early Career

Roman Sharf shares his diverse background that led him to the luxury watch industry. A refugee from the USSR, Roman moved to Austria and Italy before settling in Brooklyn, New York. His early career included selling newspapers, serving in the U.S. Army, obtaining an electrical engineering degree from Penn State, and eventually venturing into the watch business.

Transition from Banking to Watches

[02:28] Patrick Bet-David: "But, you know what? I'm here. I'm making the same amount of money as the bank is bringing me. I can support my family. I'm going to go full time."

Roman recounts his pivotal decision to leave his stable banking job post-9/11, recognizing the potential of his burgeoning watch side business to surpass his corporate income. This bold move laid the foundation for his current enterprise, which boasts a 25,000 square foot facility, 30 employees, and annual revenues of $130 million.

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3. The Current State of the Luxury Watch Market

Market Dynamics and Fraud Concerns

Roman asserts that the luxury watch industry is facing a significant "bubble," exacerbated by widespread fraud and misinformation. He emphasizes the prevalence of counterfeit watches and deceptive practices within the market.

[00:00] Roman: "And this is an inside job. A big inside job. They're not telling you the whole truth here because they're embarrassed."

Consumer Trust Issues

Patrick echoes Roman's skepticism towards watch salesmen, highlighting a general distrust among consumers.

[00:04] Patrick Bet-David: "That's why. I don't trust watch salesmen."

Roman elaborates on the extent of fraud, sharing anecdotal evidence of extravagant counterfeit watches being sold at exorbitant prices.

[00:06] Roman: "You have no idea how much fraud is in the watch space. I can tell you stories for days. That's a $1.6 million watch."

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4. Profiles of Watch Buyers

Diverse Consumer Segments

Roman categorizes watch buyers into distinct segments based on their motivations:

1. Flex Seekers: Driven by the desire to showcase wealth and status.
2. Horological Enthusiasts: Interested in mechanical complexities and craftsmanship.
3. Investors: Viewing watches as financial assets, albeit Roman cautions against this perspective.
4. Impulse Buyers: Reacting to trends and immediate gratification, often leading to frequent trading.
5. Seasoned Collectors: Building a portfolio of watches, sometimes detached from the 'flex' culture.

[08:13] Roman: "The number one reason a person buys a watch today is flex."

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5. Authenticity and Fraud Prevention

Buying from Reputable Dealers

Roman stresses the importance of purchasing from trustworthy dealers rather than focusing solely on the watch itself. His mantra is "buy the dealer, not the watch," emphasizing due diligence and relationship-building within the industry.

[19:15] Roman: "You buy the dealer, not the watch. And I've been saying this for 20 years."

Inspection and Verification Processes

Every watch Roman acquires undergoes rigorous inspection by certified watchmakers to ensure authenticity and functionality. This multi-tiered verification process includes:

1. Service Center Checks: Professional watchmakers examine each timepiece inside and out.
2. Sales Floor Review: A final inspection by the head buyer to assess paperwork and physical attributes.
3. Transaction Agreements: Comprehensive contracts and profit identification to deter fraudulent activities.

[27:54] Roman: "When it comes to buying B2B, I only deal with dealers with whom I have recourse."

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6. Grading Services and Their Limitations

Comparison with Other Collectibles

Roman draws parallels between the watch market and other collectibles like comic books, highlighting the absence of standardized grading services in the watch industry.

[28:34] Roman: "You create your own rapport within the industry. And there's not that many of us that have the type of rapport where I was just talking to one of you guys before we started."

Challenges in Establishing a Grading System

Attempts to establish centralized grading systems for watches have faltered due to logistical challenges and privacy concerns. Roman mentions eBay's failed authentication program as an example of these difficulties.

[29:52] Roman: "It's been tried. There's a multitude of companies out there that are really concentrated on something."

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7. Investment vs. Collecting: Roman’s Perspective

Caution Against Viewing Watches as Investments

Roman advises against perceiving watches purely as financial investments, labeling them as "expensive toys." He urges buyers to focus on personal enjoyment and heritage rather than speculative gains.

[08:50] Roman: "While I tell people watches are not an investment, they're an expensive toy first and foremost."

Long-Term Value and Provenance

He acknowledges that certain vintage watches with unique provenance can appreciate significantly over time, especially those with historical significance or limited production runs.

[14:44] Roman: "There's only 12 of these known in the world. There's six of these. There's also a white gold version that we sold."

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8. Celebrity Influences and Iconic Watches

Impact of Celebrities on Watch Trends

Roman discusses how celebrities like Jay-Z and Kanye West influence watch trends, particularly with limited editions and unique designs. These endorsements can substantially increase a watch's desirability and market value.

[12:57] Roman: "Kanye put on the Cartier Crash, seemingly a woman's watch. That started the craze for smaller collectible Cartier watches."

Examples of Iconic Watches

Roman highlights specific watches worn by celebrities that have set market trends, such as the Rolex Daytona and Patek Philippe’s Nautilus.

[13:00] Roman: "This watch originally sold for Daniel. Let's see this watch over here. This watch originally sold for around $3,200 back in the early 80s. Last auction result on this particular piece was a million and a quarter."

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9. Unique and Limited Edition Timepieces

One-Off Creations and Their Prestige

Limited edition watches, often produced in extremely small quantities, command premium prices due to their rarity and unique features. Roman showcases examples like the Patek Philippe Grandmaster Chime and specialized Richard Mille models.

[35:00] Roman: "This watch is going to cost like 380."

[35:03] Patrick Bet-David: "That’s the watch. Wow. That was the second watch he's ever made."

Challenges in Acquiring Unique Watches

Acquiring these exclusive pieces often requires impeccable reputation, substantial purchasing history, and sometimes inside connections within watch companies.

[34:25] Roman: "There's one difference... This is an addictive slippery slope."

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10. Relationships with High-End Brands

Navigating Brand Exclusivity

Roman explains the stringent application processes of prestigious brands like Patek Philippe and Rolex, which limit sales to established customers with extensive purchase histories. This exclusivity drives secondary market demand.

[42:08] Roman: "It's a volume as well as. As you going up in complications."

Limited Editions and Brand Ambassadors

Collaborations with celebrities as brand ambassadors lead to limited runs of specific models, further enhancing their appeal and market value.

[42:34] Roman: "They make limited editions for them, right? Jay Z was an ambassador for AP."

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11. Industry Challenges: Lack of Transparency and Centralized Systems

Absence of a Watch Grading Authority

Unlike other collectibles, the watch industry lacks a centralized authority for grading and authentication, making it difficult to verify the legitimacy of high-end timepieces.

[28:33] Patrick Bet-David: "And now we're kind of looking at the... It's like, hey, man, you have a salvage course, not a salvage car. This is a salvage car."

Fraud and Stolen Watches

Roman highlights the risks of fraud and the circulation of stolen watches due to the lack of a centralized database, complicating the verification process.

[30:53] Roman: "You never know the watch could be stolen."

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12. Notable Watch Stories

Historical and Controversial Timepieces

Roman shares intriguing stories of iconic watches, including Adolf Hitler's Jaeger-LeCoultre Reverso and Patek Philippe's Grandmaster Chime, discussing their provenance and market implications.

[89:34] Patrick Bet-David: "Hitler's Watch sells for $1.1 million at controversial auction."

[90:00] Roman: "This was done by people that worked for a mega in their museum that were verifying all this stuff."

Implications of Owning Controversial Pieces

He expresses personal discomfort and ethical concerns regarding the sale of watches associated with controversial figures, emphasizing the importance of provenance and personal values in watch collecting.

[91:45] Roman: "I have a nephew whom I got added at the minute that the war started, and I visited him numerous times and he was doing extremely well."

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13. Conclusion

Final Thoughts on the Luxury Watch Market

Roman underscores the importance of authenticity, informed purchasing decisions, and building trustworthy relationships within the watch industry. He advocates for sourcing watches from reputable dealers, engaging in thorough inspections, and valuing watches for their craftsmanship and personal significance rather than mere financial investment.

[101:01] Patrick Bet-David: "If you're thinking about buying a watch, you can manect Roman and ask him a question about a watch."

Supporting Ethical Collecting Practices

Both Roman and Patrick emphasize the need for ethical practices in watch collecting, discouraging the purchase of fakes and advocating for responsible ownership that honors the history and artistry of luxury timepieces.

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Notable Quotes:

• [00:00] Roman: "And this is an inside job. A big inside job. They're not telling you the whole truth here because they're embarrassed."

• [08:13] Roman: "The number one reason a person buys a watch today is flex."

• [19:15] Roman: "You buy the dealer, not the watch."

• [28:34] Roman: "You create your own rapport within the industry."

• [42:34] Roman: "They make limited editions for them, right? Jay Z was an ambassador for AP."

• [95:53] Roman: "I have respect for those that innovated over the last few hundred years."

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Key Takeaways:

1. Authenticity is Paramount: Always prioritize purchasing through reputable dealers and ensure thorough verification to avoid counterfeit watches.

2. Understand Buyer Profiles: Recognizing different motivations for purchasing luxury watches can inform both buying and selling strategies.

3. Investment Cautions: While certain vintage watches may appreciate, general investment in luxury watches is risky and should be approached with caution.

4. Celebrity Influence: Endorsements and limited editions driven by celebrities can significantly impact watch trends and values.

5. Industry Transparency Needs Improvement: The lack of standardized grading and centralized databases poses challenges in ensuring trust and authenticity within the watch market.

6. Ethical Collecting: Collectors should consider the provenance and ethical implications of their acquisitions, avoiding controversial or tainted timepieces.

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For those interested in delving deeper into the luxury watch market or seeking expert advice, Roman Sharf can be contacted via Manect for consultations and inquiries.

Transcript

[Roman]

And this is an inside job. A big inside job. They're not telling you the whole truth here because they're embarrassed.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That's why. I don't trust watch salesmen.

[Roman]

You have no idea how much fraud is in the watch space. I can tell you stories for days. That's a $1.6 million watch.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That's a $1.60 million.

[Roman]

It's also made entirely out of a piece of crystal.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Billion dollar idea for the watch business.

[Roman]

I'm about to shut down an entire idea. Ready in one sentence. No, there's one difference.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Go ahead.

[Roman]

This is an addictive slippery slope.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You mean to tell me this took 100,000 hours to make and now they're asking for some $15 million. But guess what? I would pay for it.

[Roman]

Those watches are going to be 10x value the minute you walk out that door. And they don't want that. So there's 12 of these watches in the world.

[Patrick Bet-David]

By the way, this actually goes with this outfit.

[Roman]

Yeah, I knew. I knew what you. I knew what you were going to. And then when the story broke and I was dubbed the Russian oligarch, the highest offer I had on it was $45,000 for the.

[Patrick Bet-David]

For the shoe.

[Roman]

So the Shah wore. That's the watch that he wore.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That's his.

[Roman]

Not if it was his, it'd be a lot more money.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What I'm saying to you is I want what was his. Did you ever think you were made again? I feel I'm supposed I know this life meant for me why would you bet on Goliath when we got bet?

[Roman]

David?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Valuetainment giving values contagious this world of entrepreneurs we gain no value to haters how they run homie look what I become I'm the one okay, so if you're a watch person or not a watch person, but want to be a watch person, you're thinking about my budget as a thousand. 5,000, 10,000, 100,000, maybe a million. Where do I go? Who do I trust? How do I see if this is worth the investment or not? And if I wear a Rolex, what does it say about me? If I were a Patek, what does it say about me? If I were a Jacob & Co. What does it say? What is if I were an Apple, what does it say about me? We're going to talk to a guy that's super qualified in this area. He's one of the OG guys, by the way. Interesting background. He's a refugee from ussr, goes to Austria, Italy from there comes to the states Brooklyn, New York. Afterwards, starts selling newspapers, gets into sales, joins the U.S. army, comes out, goes to school, I believe Penn State, gets his electric engineer degree, then goes into watches. And he took a small business of selling watches. Known one of the OG guys at the gray market of watches to building a 25,000 square foot facility. 30 employees doing $130 million a year. Roman, it's great to have you on a podcast.

[Roman]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yes. And we got a, we got a collection of $10 million of watches here, which we'll talk about as well, give or take. Yeah. And so to the audience now, they kind of have an idea, the entrance of getting into the watch business. But maybe tell me specifically like how it happened. I was a baseball card guy. I like collecting cards from the time I was a kid. How did you get into the watch market? Was it the appeal? Was there a story that somebody inspired you? What's the story?

[Roman]

There's actually a great story. You know the nickname I go by around the company is they call me the founder. Long story, I'll tell you later. But what happened was as I was in banking, I was working for Deutsche bank at the time. Commuted to New York City, two hours each way from Philadelphia. It was a bit of a rough commute. I unfortunately was there on 911 as well when it all happened. Our office was World Trade Center 4. I get approached by a guy that comes to me, he's like, Roman, you know all this Internet stuff, I'm like, well, it's a little bit more complex than that, you know, I manage Deutsche Bank's global payment System, which processes $42 billion a month. And I run a team that manages the hardware, right? And he's like, well, yeah, whatever. He had no idea. He's like, well, ebay is kind of blowing up. I sell watches. I know you like watches and I always love watches due to the mechanics because I'm an engineer by trade. How about I give you some watches and you put them on ebay and sell them and make a profit. Your cost is $10, you can sell it for 12. My response to him was, and this is a guy I've bought watches from before. My response was like, that's never going to work. Who the hell's going to buy $10,000 watches on eBay?

[Patrick Bet-David]

What year is this, by the way?

[Roman]

This is. We're going back to 2001. 2002, got it. My business started when my wife was six months pregnant with my son. So it says, oh, my son's going to be 22. That's how all my business is. And I'm like, this is never going to work. Of course it pays to have a wise woman on your side. He goes, I think this might work. We should give it a shot. I said, all right, because I don't have enough to do at the bank. So we started doing this part time. She was helping me out, taking pictures with a digital camera which is like 4 megapixels. Lo and behold, six months go by, a guy buys a $9,650 watch. It was an Audemars Piguet Royal Oak City of sales, limited edition to a thousand pieces. I remember it till this very day. If you have the kind of time to scroll back on ebay, feedback at our store, about 50,000 pages, you can actually find that sale guy from Germany sends me a wire. $9,650. I'm like, okay, maybe this can work.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What'd you make on that deal?

[Roman]

I made eleven hundred dollars.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, so is that real money at the time for you? Like are you and your wife sending?

[Roman]

So I'm making at the time, I'm, I'm, I'm living comfortable. I'm making $125,000 a year plus bonus at the bank. My wife was at home at the time. And I'm like, okay, well this is nice. Now after taxes that paycheck dwindles down to about seven grand a month, which was really good money 20 years ago. And after about a year of doing this part time, my son is born. Sleepless nights, just so you understand. I would leave at 5:15 in the morning to go to New York. I would come back at 7:30 at night. My son was already asleep and he was asleep when I would leave. I would see him on the weekends, literally. And then I would do this stuff part time again. There was no iPhones back then. There was no high speed technology. So I would do this part time. And sometimes I'd get to bed at 2:00 in the morning. Plus the team that I ran were 12 guys that worked out of Singapore. 12 hour time difference. So sometimes my lunch meetings were at 2:00 in the morning. Let's just say the bags under my eyes speak for themselves, right? I worked on average of about 40 hours to 50 hours at the bank and another 30, 40 hours doing my own thing. And I did that for almost three years. Having a conscious mind that I have a family support, I have a son which just bought a new house. I realized that I'm going to have my side business bring me income of one and a half of what I'm making now to feel comfortable that I can leave the corporate world. And it was a tough, tough choice. I was progressing really fast where I was. I had an opportunity to go far with the bank. But I did see economy shift post 9 11. And I saw a lot of guys get up and leave one day. And I'm like, do I really want that to be me? If I mess something up, let it be on me. Not a corporate decision. I have a. Blame the bank for it. It was a proper corporate. They'd let go of 15,000 employees at that point, mostly out of New York. Every other guy on my floor got up and left. And I said, you know what? I'm here. I'm making the same amount of money as the bank is bringing me. I can support my family. I'm going to go full time. And then the website came, and the rest, as they say, is history.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Very cool. Congrats on the success.

[Roman]

Thank you.

[Patrick Bet-David]

With watches, I think the way. How did you and I. I was looking at buying a. What? I was looking at buying a. What was it? I was looking at buying a Patek. Right. The grandmaster. Right. And then I talked to a guy who, through Adam, the gold guy. Funny guy. Track. Yeah. Max, who is very funny, by the way. He was at our Manect event. And I just like his.

[Roman]

He is a. We call him a piece unique in our industry. He's a great friend of mine. He's a great guy. He's. He's very. He's different.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah. And so we're talking about this watch here. Yes. And I call you. I'm like, hey, what do you think about this one? I'm calling a bunch of different guys. I'm ready to, you know, cut a check on a watch. I'm like, well, before you do this, you may want to think about xyz. And from there, the conversation turned. I bought a watch from you for my wife. I think I bought that like two, three months ago. And you were able to make that work. And it was very easy dealing with you yourself, Adrian, the crew. So the experience was good. But I got. I got a bunch of different questions I want to ask you within the watch business. Okay. From somebody who is not in the space. Somebody that, you know, maybe is somebody that is an obsessed, you know, watch guy. When. When you think about buyers, your customers, there's different profile of customers that buy watches. What do you notice? Profile of watch buyers. Is it a Guy that, hey, he had a big commission day, $50,000, wants to drop 20k on a Rolex, Is it a guy that's always coming back, buying, Is there a guy that's trading? What profile of customers do you guys have?

[Roman]

It's really not about profiles. It's really understanding what your client wants, finding out what your client wants. And it changes with times. Just like trends change, times change. Social media revolutionized the world to an extent where I would say the number one reason a person buys a watch today is flex. Right? That would be the number one reason. Then you have a type of client though, who is a big horological geek. He wants complications. He wants watches that are uber complicated. He wants watches that can be a full blown perpetual calendar, not just a daytime watch. You also have guys that are quote, unquote investors. Right. While I tell people watches are not an investment, they're an expensive toy first and foremost. Which is the first thing I told you.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Tell me that.

[Roman]

Yeah, you know, you were the one that came back to I can't believe you're talking me out of a five, $6 million watch. Right. But there's a reason for that. Because my job is to educate the consumer first and foremost to a point where they would feel stupid to buy anywhere else, regardless of price. Within reason. That's always been my motto. And then when people ask me, hey, can you suggest a watch? I come back to them with questions and I ask them, hey, what sings to you? Is it the history? Is it the brand name? Is it the Flex? And I always say, please, if it is the Flex, let me know. There's nothing wrong with it. Majority of buyers are out there for the flex aspect, but there of course different type of flexes. So you have your vintage guys, you have your modern guys, you have your latest and greatest guys. Then you have the impulse buyers, the guys that see me post a watch on Instagram and five minutes later I get a DM and they want that watch. They want it now, they want it yesterday. Those are the impulse buyers. Those are guys usually end up trading back and forth all the time. I have clients that will literally trade me watches on a monthly basis two to three times. Every time I'm making a profit every time. They're seemingly taking a hit, but they don't care. This is they're into for the hobby. They want to do it all day, every day. And then you have the guys that are seasoned collectors that are putting their way as a portfolio. Hey, Roman, I want to put away X into Watches. And it usually ends up being watches that they never thought about buying. Nor are they very flexi, nor are they something that people want to show off.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So stories with watches, like, you'll see, guys will say, you know, I see you wearing this watch. I see you wearing that watch. Like cars, like, you know, I'll talk to my youngest son. I say, I just see you in a Porsche, and he likes the Porsche a lot. My oldest son, truck or a Jeep, right? You kind of see them in that. Do watches match based on personality, size, skin color, you know, industry wealth? Is there a match with it as well? Like what you wear, what you don't wear? How do you view watches? Like, if I go to a place, I want to buy a suit, I'll go to a guy and say, hey, Stefano, here's what I'm looking for. Here's what you need. You need this, this, this, this, that, and you need to do this. You need in your closet to be this, this, this and that. How do you. To a buyer, somebody that's thinking about buying a watch. When it comes down to buying a watch, you got to keep in mind with this, this, this, that. What would that be?

[Roman]

So it used to be very stereotypical. Your stockbroker had the gold Rolex, right? Your car salesman had the gold Rolex, right? And most of this stuff was Rolex. You had guys that were in the upper echelon of corporate world that would have Pateks. But those things have changed. And the reason is perception in the world. You walk into a corporate environment, you're wearing $100,000 Patek Philippe that will work against you regardless of the position that you hold. If you hold a high position and you're not walking in wearing a diamond encrusted Jacob, because now you're looking down to those that work for you. We have become so infatuated with perception and how we're seen by others that everything you just said has gone away as we know it. However, there are certain questions that I would ask an individual in regards to a what do you do? What's your day to day look like? Who do you interact with on a daily basis? If you're a plumber coming to fix the plumbing in my house, you're not going to come in wearing a big diamond watch. So a lot of the stuff comes down to practicality, right? Hey, you're an active. Do you have an active lifestyle? You know, do you go skiing all the time? Are you riding motorcycles? Are you riding bikes? What do you do on a Daily basis where I can put you into a watch that can withstand it. But the very first question is budget. Because I say buy what you like first and foremost within the budget that you can afford. Don't overspend, because this is an addictive slippery slope. You start down the slope, you can see how quickly you want another and another. You mentioned baseball cards. I collect formula one cards. And I know exactly. It's the same exact concept. I want every card in every set and every grade and so on and so forth. It becomes. It gets away from you very quickly. But for, say, today, it's the trends that dictate what one would put on his wrist. And then you have the big trendsetters. You know, you have the big celebrities. Some of them you had on here. Guys like Jay Z all of a sudden set a trend on vintage pieces. But then again, it started with Kanye when he put on the Cartier Crash, seemingly a woman's watch. That started the craze for smaller collectible Cartier watches. Jay Z is wearing a version of this watch with a baguette bezel today. He actually bought that recently, a couple of months ago.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How much is that worth?

[Roman]

That one is about 800 grand.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What is the story of that watch?

[Roman]

So this is six, two.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You want to come see what that watch is? Go for it.

[Roman]

So this is a vintage Rolex daytona. Back in 1986, Rolex started what we like to call off catalog pieces. You would know as, for example, the rainbow Daytona today. Right. That's an afghan off catalog piece. You have the tiger eye, basically, gem set encrusted watches. Well, this is the watch that started back in 1986. They made it with a diamond bezel. They made it with a diamond bezel, diamond dial, and they also made it with a baguette bezel diamond dial, which is the one that Jay Z wears today. Production on these pieces were extremely low. We're Talking about maybe 30 pieces.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Oh, you got to be kidding me.

[Roman]

Oh, it gets rarer. Trust me.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So there's only 30 of those.

[Roman]

Exactly. So. So when you talk about a short production number, because Rolex doesn't make limited editions. They just make short production. This was a test. Will this work? Can we get somebody to spend an exorbitant amount of money?

[Patrick Bet-David]

When 86 it came out, what do.

[Roman]

They sell it for in 86? This watch trade is somewhere around 6 or $7,000.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Oh, so from there to now, trading at.

[Roman]

You want to talk about investment? I know you're calculating things in your head. Yes, absolutely. This. This watch? You want to talk about this watch? How about this watch? This watch originally sold for Daniel. Let's see this watch over here. I'll show it to you. This watch originally sold for around $3200 back in the early 80s. Last auction result on this particular piece was a million and a quarter.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What is it?

[Roman]

It's a Patek Philippe 3700. So all the Nautiluses that you know today were born from this watch. Magenta designed it back in 1976, like the Royal Loki did in 72. Of course, that one's a little bit more special. That was made for the Sultan of Oman. The late Caboose.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This was.

[Roman]

Yes. And that's. See that little stamp on a dial? So one without it would be about a 2, $300,000 watch. That little stamp makes a million dollar difference.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That little stamp makes a million dollar difference.

[Roman]

Yes. And there's a steel version of it as well, which was a few hundred dollars. And again, same stamp. There's only 12 of these known in the world. There's six of these. There's also a white gold version that we sold. There were three in the world. One is in a museum, one we sold, and one belongs to a collector in Germany who's got more money than Germany. So that one sold for 2 million.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So you sold that one for 2 million. So what is this one going to sell?

[Roman]

That's. So this one is going to be four and a quarter.

[Patrick Bet-David]

425. Okay, so what else. What else you got here with the watches?

[Roman]

So when it gets to rarity, and this is a lot of times this tickles people's interest, they're like, oh, what do I go with? And I start telling them a story. And it's not a story. It's not a salesmany story. It's a real story. So there's 12 of these watches in the world, seemingly a Rolex Daytona. If you look close enough, it's got a blue dial. This was a friends and family executives edition. Right. This particular watch has provenance. It used to belong to Adam Levine, but there's only 12 of them, and they were given to high executives and friends of the Rolex family. So this was never sold publicly. This was never sold to an individual. It was only given as gifts to high executives as well as certain friends of the brand. 12 ever made. They rarely come out in the market. They rarely trade. Right. But then you can flip this.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What would that trade for? This one was 650,650 and there's only 12 of those.

[Roman]

Yeah, just, just so you know, a regular Daytona today retails around that fifty thousand dollar price range.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, I got. So let me ask you a question. So let's just say I am holding a special birthday for my 50th, which is four years from now. And I want to go get a custom Rolex watch build or whatever brand it is that I want to get it built for a number of guests. That would be the example for me to work with them to build something custom.

[Roman]

Will never happen.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Will never happen.

[Roman]

They will never do it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Why not?

[Roman]

Because Rolex is so exclusive and all these brands are so exclusive. You made a video that I reacted to where you talked about, hey, you can get a few Patek Philippe watches from Patek and then they'll make you a custom watch. Right. They will never do so it will never happen. Patek and Rolex, they keep a lid so tight that at this point they don't need this, nor do they want to create that chaos because they know that the minute you do that and you make a limited run of 50 Rolex watches or Patek watches, those watches are going to be 10x value the minute you walk out that door. And they don't want that.

[Patrick Bet-David]

See what you just did right there telling me about the, that Patek will never do that. That's why I don't trust watch salesmen. Because the guy that told me that told me that in the Venice store when I bought a Patek watch, majority.

[Roman]

Of the staff that staffs these boutiques that have zero availability on the stuff that you want, they're clueless.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So how does a buyer, how does a buyer who is buying secondary market watches? Not brand new, not directly. I'm buying it from somebody. How do you process who to trust and who not to trust? Like for example, this is why when you and I spoke, I was about to probably dump $10 million into watches and you pushed me away from it. And you remember when you and I talked, I'm like, listen, Roman, you make me not want to buy these watches. Right. I was ready to go buy 10 million setters after the family. I know if I buy $10 million worth of cards and I ask the seller to meet me at PSA's headquarters, they'll go there, the president of PSA will be there. Hey, would you mind if we put in a new case and you look at this card and verify? Great. Ken, can we put it in Golden Vault? No problem. Or Heritage? Can we do something? Yeah, go to this guy, go to that guy. Great. There's a vault for me to go to. PSA graded, all of that. So in the card community back in the days, there was a lot of fraud. Like even the first Harness Wagner card that Bruce McNull and Wayne Gretzky bought. Later on, stories came out that that card was cut, okay edges, which made the corner so perfect. But you know, it's not the same size as a regular Honus Wagner card. Like, wait a minute, you just, you know, the corners were cut. Yeah, that one right there, that sold for 451, I think at an auction in New York, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. Back in the days that the two of them bought. And I think nowadays, if you want to buy Honda Swagner, you're going to spend, I don't know, million to $15 million, depending on which one you're buying, the quality.

[Roman]

But.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Right. But when it comes on to watches, there is no psa, there is no bgs, there is no Beckett grading service, there is no sgc. How does a buyer trust the fact that they're buying a watch that's not fraud. How do you do that?

[Roman]

You buy the dealer, not the watch. And I've been saying this for 20 years. And I tell people, there's a ton. You want to talk about fraud in the card space? You have no idea how much fraud is in the watch space. I can tell you stories for days, but I tell people, buy the dealer, not the watch, and do your homework. And the number one rule is actually very simple. If it's too good to be true, it usually is. Give you a quick example. Guy calls me up, it's like, roman, it's like, I'm, I want to buy this two tone Rolex you have for ten grand. I said, okay, no problem. He's like, but listen, I'm a little hesitant. You know, I got burnt before. So what happened? I said, I bought the same one on ebay and it turned out to be a fake. This is years back. I go, that same watch trace today for 20 grand. But he goes, you bought it on ebay? How much did you pay? 1,200. I asked him, what do you do for a living? And the guy's like some super doctor. I said, so you went to school for 45,000 years to become this fancy doctor, and it never dawned on you that a watch that trades for 10 grand that you're buying for 1200 is a little too good to be true? I go, show me the ebay seller. I go, on there and back in the day, ebay allowed this. They don't do it anymore. Guys would put up listings saying rolex, like watch it doesn't have box and papers. Read the description carefully and look at the price and act accordingly. So they were selling clones. Ebay stopped, put a stop to that. After a while I said, so when you read all that and you saw that didn't dawn on you that you're going to get a fake? It's like, well, I thought it was ebay. I thought it was going to be a good deal. Common sense will always prevail. But today's day and age, you have no idea. For the first five to seven years being in business, I spend more time proving people that are not going to get a brick in a box from me and they're actually going to get a real item. Today's day and age, you're protected from every angle.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Let's skip that. Let's go to you. So instead of like, here's a story, right? So Omega says ex employees responsible for the $3 million fake speed master watch. Rob, if you can go a little lower and zoom out a little bit, right? So that's first. Let's see what the watch is, see what it looks like. So that's the guy right there. Okay, let's go a little bit lower. Zoom in so we can read this swizzle. Omega says it's been a victim of organized criminal activity, alleging three of its former staff members admitting working with intermediaries to sell a fake Speedmaster Speedmaster watch for $3.4 million. The watch was bought by Omega itself for 3.115 million Swiss francs, 25 times the auctioneer's upper estimated price at a Phillips auction in Geneva, November 2021. Omega told CNN in a statement that it had intended to display the watch at its museum Indian Switzerland. With high ups in the company believing it be a rare and exceptional time timepiece that would be an absolute must for Omega showcase collections. The item was thought to be a 1957 stainless steel chronograph wristwatch with a broad arrow hands and was described by Phillips as one of the very first and most collectible Speedmaster models. So you can go a little bit lower, Rob. So if these guys at this level screw up, I'm talking about not me trusting you. I want to know you like they come to you in the dealer world. How do you know they're bullshit? How do you know?

[Roman]

Because sometimes, first of all, this is notice they say organized crime. This was a Scam long coming. A lot of people out there. When it comes to the vintage world, it all comes down to knowledge. You want to buy from the most knowledgeable guy. Why? Because when you're going Back to the 50s and the 60s, Rolex has the shittiest records and so does Omega. Their archive and their record system, they're terrible, Right? Patek Philippe probably has one of the better archive system, due to a friend of mine. I worked there for 15 years creating that archive system, sitting in the basement, doing all the research. There's no Internet, there's no Google lens, Right? So this is records that you're lying on from the 50s. One of the guys was working for the Mega Museum. He was very knowledgeable in what the watch is supposed to look like. They buy a watch that has the same case that would have the same type of movement. They did something to the dial to turn it brown, right. That wasn't done naturally that they did something about to turn it back to that rock.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Go. I'm listening. Turn the dial to brown.

[Roman]

Right. And then what they did is they did subtle little things to show that that is no longer reference X, but it's now reference Y, which is uber rare. You can change hands, you can change buttons, you can do all those things. But it requires tremendous knowledge in the world of vintage to be able to create what we call a Frankenstein. That's what this is. It's a Frankenstein watch. Right. It's put together and it's done in this industry mostly with stuff from the 50s and the 60s from companies that don't keep good records, like Rolex or Omega.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So you're saying that's not common for it to be browned.

[Roman]

It can naturally turn brown if it's set in the dark for 20 years. That wasn't done naturally, but there is a process that you can use to make it turn that way.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Got it.

[Roman]

Right.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And does that make it more mystique and most more tropical? Dial.

[Roman]

So, for example, the watch I'm showing you here, this watch is just starting to turn tropical. If I put it in the dark for another 10 years, it will turn completely brown.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But does that make it more valuable?

[Roman]

It does, because it makes it a lot rarer, less of something. This is what it comes down to when it comes to vintage watches. So this was done maliciously. It took a couple years of planning. The original watch that that was was actually sold in auction. They augmented a watch a little bit. And then eventually, if you take a zoom in to this versus the original auction result, A few years prior, you can see certain scratches that match. Kind of like a photo match.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Got it.

[Roman]

This was done maliciously. Let me tell you what happens, at least what I do when it comes to vintage timepieces. What I do is I partner up with an individual whom I trust and who I know is knowledgeable. Because the biggest fear I have is to sell you a watch where there's something not correct on the watch. Because of my knowledge, if I don't know something, I will reach out to an expert. I have a friend of mine, his name Adam Golden. Mental watches. And he's a vintage guy. He's actually an attorney who turned collector who then said, screw being an attorney. I'm going to be a vintage watch dealer. He knows this stuff inside and out. He lives and breathes vintage watches. So rather than me taking a shot and saying, hey, Patrick, here's this great watch and you pay me a million bucks, and then Patrick finds out, well, the buttons are not original. Something is wrong with the dial. It's been re Loomed. Rephased, Repainted, or something like this. This is the worst of it. I'd rather make half the money and have an expert on my side. The way I can confidently walk into a room, say the. This is a correct watch, and this is a watch for you.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But how about when you're buying from a private owner who's not in the business, how do you know if the watch he or she is selling is fake?

[Roman]

Well, first of all, I can tell a fake room from. I mean, I can tell a fake watch from a room away.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How?

[Roman]

Right. Experience. You can't buy experience.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How did Omega screw up here?

[Roman]

Because Omega, this was done by people that worked for a mega in their museum that were verifying all this stuff. You understand? This is an inside job. A big inside job. They're not telling you the whole truth here because they're embarrassed. But when you have somebody on the inside who's supposed to be the guy telling you this is the correct watch. Do you know why I fetched so much money? Because the insiders knew that Omega was going to bid on that watch. And you know, when Rolex Omega come to the table in auctions, that's when records are set because they don't care. They keep the paddle up until they win because they want it for their museum.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Got it. Okay, so what else? But when you say you can tell from, like, give me the most basic stuff, like, for me, I can, you know, certain things in my business, I can see if somebody's full of shit or what they're doing. Because I've been in the business for a long time, so I'm with you. I read that part as well. But I'll be able to say, one, I'll look at this. Two, I'll look at this. Three, I look at this. Four, I'll look at this. Five, I look at like, hey, how do you know somebody's. The other day we get an email. Hey, you know, I'm stuck at the airport. Can you please send me $2,000? My credit card's not with me. Oh, shit. Patting's $2,000. First step is what? Go check the email. Oh, it's not Pat's email. It's fraud. Right? Like basic stuff like that. It's what are some Trust.

[Roman]

Trust and verify and really process. So any watch that comes in. We do buy a lot of watches from the public. When it comes to buying B2B, I only deal with dealers with whom I have recourse. So if something happens down the line or something is wrong, I know I have recourse, I can return the watch for a full refund. So I deal with trusted individuals. But when it comes to buying from the public, it gets a little bit trickier. So we have a service center. Every single watch that comes in from the public goes to my service centers. I have three watchmakers sitting there that will test the watch. I don't care if it's a brand new Rolex and it seemingly looks okay and the paper is okay and everything is okay, it still gets checked inside and out. So the minute that if you open up a watch, a professional watchmaker opens up a watch, they'll tell you if the watch is fake or not or parts were replaced, if the watch really new isn't actually working properly. So we do a full blown test. Cost me to the tune of 30 grand a month to do that. Just so you know, just a checking process. Right, Right. That's number one. So you got to qualify a watchmaker to do so. After it comes back from my watchmaker and it hits the sales floor, there's another check. Adrian, my head buyer who you just met earlier. Again, it's a quick look. It's a. It's a quick look. Now at things like papers and boxes, there's a lot of telltale signs. Again, they all come from experience. But at the end of the day, I make you sign your life away when you sell something to me. If you ever go through the selling process on my website, you'll see that you're going to have to provide all the profit identification. You have to provide certain paperwork, sign a certain contract. Right. So people will shy away to try to fraud people like us. They'll usually go after the smaller fish.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah. So, you know, in. In back in the days, I'm from Glendale, so there was a lot of cars that were salvage, not Pink Slip. They still sold and it wasn't shown salvage and you sold more. So you kind of had a way of, you know, doing that. And then eventually they couldn't do it anymore because it was regulated, it was reported. And now we're kind of looking at the. It's like, hey, man, you have a salvage course, not a salvage car. This is a salvage car. It's not $30,000, it's $18,000. Well, no, you have no idea what you're talking about. You had an accident and it totaled this. And here's what you're doing. Oh, you're stuck. You're cop, right? Credit Experian, TransUnion, Equifax. What is the equivalent of that in the watch space?

[Roman]

Doesn't exist.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Doesn't exist.

[Roman]

Does not exist. I.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Why isn't somebody doing that? Everything nowadays is about grading service. Why their watch? Grading service.

[Roman]

You create your own rapport within the industry. And there's not that many of us that have the type of rapport where I was just talking to one of you guys before we started. I told them a story how I can walk into any room in my industry and I can walk out with $10 million worth of merchandise without signing a single piece of paper. That's the reputation that you build up over the years. And that is what it's all based on. My industry is still very much based on a handshake.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So if you were to say, are there the top like when you buy autographs of presidents, trying to buy an autograph of Nikola Tesla. Is this a real autograph of Nikola Tesla? Is this a real autograph of George Washington? Is this autograph not, you know, big collection with that? How do you find that out? There's typically five guys who do coa certificate of authenticity, who have been around a long time, who have the most credibility based on experience. 40 years. If the COA comes from this guy, boom, you're good. This is a real autograph. If the COA comes from that guy, boom, it's good. Who's the COA from such and so I've never heard of them before. They just started two years ago. I'm not trusting this. That's a fake, right? You Kind of move on. So, billion dollar idea for the watch business. What if somebody came out with a grading service for watch.

[Roman]

It's been tried. There's a multitude of companies out there that are really concentrated on something. What we call is the watch clean. Because the watch could be stolen, right? That's the biggest issue that you face in our industry. You never know, a watch could be stolen. I've had issues. In fact, three months ago, guy calls me up, hey, Roman, I bought this Richard Mille from you. I just want to get it serviced at Richard Mille. They're telling me the watch came up flagged, it's red. There's no real system in the watch world to know if something is stolen or not. There's not a centralized system. Think about it. Europe, you have the Interpol. Here you have the police, you have insurance companies, you have all kinds of stuff. You have guys claiming watches to be stolen just to get paid from the insurance company fraudulently. And then they go out on the open market and they sell them. Guy bought a watch from me five years ago, said, all right, here's the letter from rm. Five minutes later, the guy received the refund. I went, pulled up my invoice from five years ago, who I bought it from. I showed the guy the invoice, showed him the letter, he sent me a refund. It goes down the chain to the guy that doesn't have recourse. Which is why extremely, extremely important to have resources. But as far as the systems are concerned, it's extremely difficult to come up with that database number. One reason is privacy. Would you want to take your baseball card collection and give me every PSA number of every card that you own and put it in there so it's for public view? It's kind of tough. These things have serial numbers. Some people don't want to know the world to know what they own.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Let me tell you, if there was a grading service and that was done by professionals who had access to things with serial numbers, I think these watches, instead of selling for a million that sell for 7 million, I think they.

[Roman]

You may be right. There's only one problem.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What's that?

[Roman]

I am that pro. And there's not guys out there that are going to be able to do.

[Patrick Bet-David]

There's not a guy out, I mean.

[Roman]

Ebay tried it, right? EBay did an authentication program. They called me up, they wanted me to pilot the program, have a good relationship with them. I told them, I was like, who's going to be opening up these watches and telling Me. They're authentic. Show me who your expert is. You want. You expect me to send you a brand new $100,000 Rolex for somebody to open up?

[Patrick Bet-David]

You know, what happens is. Here's what happens. What happens is, like there was a moment where credibility from. From BGs went to PSA.

[Roman]

Yes.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And the market had. Wait a minute. Who's authenticated that guy left? Bgs, Beckett. And he went to psa. No way. Yeah. They also went. This other guy. When that other guy went, what? And they're giving away nine and a half for nothing. Dude, PSA is not going to give you a nine and a half. They're going to give you an eight or nine or seven, where you can get a nine. And so PSA eight is worth more than a nine and a half? Bgs? Yes. Wow. Why? Because the top graders went with psa. That's why I asked who the top guys are in the space. Because if this came in right now. Rob, can you do me a favor and go to cgcc? Just type in CGCC and type in Spider Man. Maybe I'm not saying it correctly. Cg. Cgc. Okay, so if you go to take one to see out. So cgc. This is. Type in CGC comic books. Okay, CGC comic books. So what cg, CGC does. Click on that. Zoom out a little bit. CGC is the grading service for comic books. That's what these guys do. And it was founded just 24 years ago. Okay, if you type in right now, most expensive comic book ever sold. Most expensive comic book ever sold. Okay, Watch what it says right there. Superman 1. But why? It's a summer 1939 CGC 8.0, and it sold two years ago for $5.3 million. I try to buy this, they won't sell it, right? And now they're asking for some $15 million for a comic book like this. But, but, but guess what? I would pay for it. I would pay for it just because CGC is next to it on Marilyn Monroe. CGC 9.6, Playboy issue number one. Worth a lot of money. Then they did this grading with video games. Rob, type in the most expensive video game ever sold. Have you seen this stuff or no?

[Roman]

So the Mario Brothers, the one, the retail with the hook. That one.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I don't know which one it is, but if you type in most. Look, look at this one here. Yeah, Mario Brothers.

[Roman]

That's it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So most expensive video game ever sold was sold for $2 million in August of 2021. But look at the Grading how many.

[Roman]

People ran to the attics to see if they still have that leftover? Because that was like an extra that you got with the content.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But I'm telling you, like what I'm sharing with you, Roman, is. And I. If I was in your world and I was really getting into that business, that I would go raise 10 million bucks.

[Roman]

I'm about to shut that entire idea. Ready? One sentence. There's one difference.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Go ahead.

[Roman]

Right. And when all this stuff I'm a. Wait till you stop by my office. You want to talk about collectors? I have. I'm big on cassette tapes. I think they're huge right now. I'm huge on formula one stuff. I love comics. I love all this stuff. You know the difference between me bringing you these two Richard Mills here?

[Patrick Bet-David]

What's that?

[Roman]

So two Richard meals. Are they real? Are they fake? I'm telling you they're real. You know who I am? I've been doing this 20 years. You trust me. I came up, you buy. You're buying them, right? So I got about $800,000 here.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Each of them is what, 800 or 400?

[Roman]

400. This one's a little cheaper. This one's a little more expensive. Right? You know the difference between this and what you're showing me on the screen? There's no plastic case. Nor would these tiny ever be practical if they were to be sealed in a plastic case. Nobody collects watches for the purpose of doing what. I have all kinds of beautiful displays for my formula one cards. I have these frames where the slabs fit in perfectly. I have these boxes where they slide in the protectors and you name it. People wear these. Unless you're Jake Paul and you're wearing your Pokemon Charizard around your neck and a necklace which is still slabbed, you're not doing it with this. And that's the difference. As much as you want to have a grading, how good is the grading? The minute that this watch I buy a brand new Rolex, customer just bought it. He flipped it to me at a profit. He just picked it up from Rolex two days ago. It's brand new, still has stick.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You know what I would do?

[Roman]

I'm still, I'm still checking the watch.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You know what I would do? Here's what I would do. Let's. Let's go with that. Say you buy a watch and non graded. Like, let's just say right now, if I wanted to buy this, what would I have to pay you to buy this? 440. Okay, let's say 440, right. And there's five guys that are selling this between 380 to 440. Okay? But the one guy has it graded by BDC. I'm just giving a number and it's for 600, but I know for a fact that's going to be legit. I would pay the 600 just because the credibility. And then guess what?

[Roman]

You would be one of 10 million people.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That would no problem. But. But I think it's a bigger market. I think it's a bigger market. Then I would take that. And if I don't care about the grading, I know it's legit. Guess what? I take the case out. I take my watch, I wear the watch. Three years later, when I want to sell it, I will go back to that grading service company and I'll say, this is the watch, the serial number. I'll record it when I'm taking a watch and I'll say, can you grade it again? Because I want to sell it now. Then I would sell it to somebody.

[Roman]

You know what question you just answered? What's the difference between gray market and authorized dealers?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Which is what?

[Roman]

So you're talking about wanting to buy a watch that's graded, that slab that's been authenticated. There's a slew of people out there that will still go out to the world and pay full retail for a watch. They could easily get brand new on a secondary, 30 to 40% off, but they still feel comfortable inside to walk to an authorized dealer, an actual store where this is a company boutique or an authorized dealer, and they're buying that watch. What you're talking about is the difference between buying the gray market and buying from an authorized dealer. Because when you walk into an authorized dealer, they're authorized to sell the brand. We're not. We're the gray market. Right. This is the difference.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I think this would sell more than the authorized dealer. I think this would sell more than the authorized. But let's. Let's get off this topic. This is just for me, my fascination of knowing the fact that I think someone could figure it out and why.

[Roman]

I am so with you. Because I collect. I'm. I collect the same things you collect. I'm in the same space. I get it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So I'm just thinking, like, if somebody did that, you know, like, remember that BMW, the. The one with Tupac that they were selling? I don't know if you remember when that was for sale or not. Rob, can you type in Tupac BMW for sale? Okay. The one that got shot, right? Is that the one? Can you go type in. Oh, look at. Look what they're selling it for. See the number? $1.75 million. Okay, so can I fully get it from the VIN number? Can we go back and check the. I don't know. I don't know if I can or not. It would be some processing that I would want to do for me to say, yeah, this is the wrong. Well, this is not. Maybe they change or maybe they did this. Who's the grading service? Am I going based off DMV? Do I trust 100% DMV? I don't know, but. But again, for me, it's purely degraded. But let's go back to it. You said something. You said you made a video when the fact that if you have this many watches with Patek, they'll make a custom watch for you. Right? Okay. So for a guy like me, I bought this watch. This is the first watch I bought. I bought it in 2015. I was in Paris. We had flown in from Dubai and the watch couldn't be sold for another six months. I go downstairs to the sale. I said, what do you have that you can't sell? He says, I have this. I said, what is this? I have the. Why can't you sell it? Well, I can't sell it because the market. We just got it. There's only a few of them, but I can sell it to you in three to six months. I said, I'd like to buy. I'm telling you, I can't sell it. Anyways, by the fifth day, we build a relationship. He agreed to sell it to me. No problem. I bought the watch. I bought this for my son. This is for my oldest son. I bought another Patek for my son. I bought a Senna, my daughter Senna. I bought it for my wife. But everything I own would watch. I'm not in the business of reselling. I'm in a business of. Hey, son. I wore this because when I was in, you know, France, I bought this for you because you were three years old. And I said, one day this is going to be yours. I wore this watch when we sold our company and I was signing, I was wearing this history, family. It means a lot to my kids, right?

[Roman]

The same with art.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I love it. So. But. But going to it for a guy like me who for would like to put on a big 50th birthday party and reward the people that have been most influential in my life. And I would like to find a way to Make a custom watch collection to sell it to him. Okay. Who would I go through to be able to do that? Nobody.

[Roman]

Not going to Patek. You're not going to Rolex.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay.

[Roman]

You're not going to Omega. But there are plenty of brands that would love an opportunity.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And so, for example, big brands or, like, the new ones.

[Roman]

So, for example, I brought with me. Oh, Ulis Nardon. Right. This is a J Mart meta repeater, Striking time. This is one of the most complicated movements that a watch can have, a meta repeater. It literally chimes out the time. Right. So it will. If I wind it up, you can hear it. You can actually let me just wind it real quick. And it's also a mechanical automation, kind of like the big clocks ahead of medieval times. So if I depress this, you can take the headphones. I'll see how the guys are moving or striking a belt. Wow.

[Patrick Bet-David]

By the way, that's a beautiful watch.

[Roman]

So that's close.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And see, Daniel, come here. You got to see this.

[Roman]

They made only 30 of those. It's a $380,000 watch. And obviously, what you're paying for is the complication. Not only does it chime out the time, it also actually animates on the screen. And Jacque Marth's quick side story goes back literally means guys ringing bells. So think about medieval times, when either you wanted to tell people what time it was or you wanted to warn him of a fire or anything like that. That's why it's called Jackie Martz. Although there's another theory that in 1905, some monks wrote a book that talked about Jackie Martz, a guy named Jacqui Martz, who invented the automation of the clocks, actually striking bells automatically on top of the towers. But there's always a story behind this stuff. So you go to a brand.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Not Rolex, not Patek, not Omega.

[Roman]

You go to a brand, like at least Nardon. Now, mind you, they've been around since 1846. They made their money in marine chronometers. In fact, they were so good that the English Navy ditched their marine chronometers and they were able to use theirs, that they sold them throughout the time. U.S. army, same thing. They use chronometers at sea because back then, you needed to know where you are at sea, Right? And what you needed to know is the difference of time that has passed since you left the port of entry. So you can calculate where you actually are. Right. So they made their big name. They've been around since 1846 continuously. This is a brand with a ton of history. So this is a brand that would actually value somebody like you remember Patek, Rolex, some of these brands, they'll have their noses up in the air. Omega is owned by a big group, right? So this watch group, how about AP.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Or VC or those guys?

[Roman]

AP is also going to be very difficult. A lot of these companies, the industry that you're going into, they have their noses up in the air and they think about how is it going to affect us and what is that going to start. If BBD wants to have a watch made, then the next guy is going to want to have a watch made. What they do instead is they take on ambassadors. They make limited editions for them, right? So Jay Z was an ambassador for AP. LeBron was an ambassador for AP. John Mayer is an ambassador for AP. Right? They either make a limited edition or they'll make a limited run.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That is by design by the limited edition of 30. They're not given Jay Z the 30 to do, they're given one to Jay Z.

[Roman]

That was a big thing. By the way, Francois, the ex CEO of Audemars Piguet, he came to the Swiss and said, hey, I want to use this hip hop artist as an ambassador. And they all, they all flipped out. What are you talking about? World of hip hop. AP where this because remember these are all suit wearing white gloves. Very conservative people. They only allowed him to create. They did 10 pieces in platinum, they did 50 pieces in rose and they did 90 pieces in stainless steel. And that only allowed him to sell it in America. But when they sold like hotcakes, this thing came with an ipod signed by him. Big box, awesome watch. And when they saw the success of that, that's when they loosened up a little bit. Oh, there it is.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And what did that. So they gave it to Jay Z and then they sold the rest.

[Roman]

Jay Z got one to wear one as an ambassador and they sold the rest. And they sold like hockey. In fact, they sold over retail. This is back in those times, the AP offshores limited officers were the hottest thing and I was selling a ton of them. So if a stainless steel one back then retail for somewhere around that 15 to $17,000 price range, they were selling.

[Patrick Bet-David]

On a secondary for 35. Wow.

[Roman]

And what's it selling for today?

[Patrick Bet-David]

17. 17,000.

[Roman]

This is when people ask me about watches being an investment. You have to remember one thing.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You are joking.

[Roman]

Trends. Think about the trends. Because this is what's selling. That's the latest and the greatest for ap, the frosted rainbow. This is the watch that trades at double its retail value today. Trends. Remember, this is something you put on and you wear and you flex with. And now what do you do with the fuel of social media? You look up to those that you admire on social media.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Let's make this special.

[Roman]

So this is a. First of all, it's a frosted finish. So if you notice, notice. Feel it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Oh my God.

[Roman]

It feels like sandpaper a little bit. This is all hand hammered.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Dan, Daniel, can you zoom in on this? It feels amazing.

[Roman]

Right? You also have a rainbow bezel. So these are sapphire. Sapphire bezel done as a rainbow. This is obviously Rolex, started with a rainbow Daytona and then everybody kind of caught on with it. It's also a skeleton. Double balance is super accurate watch.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So what does this go for?

[Roman]

Is this, this is going to cost like 380.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This is 380. But in this when it first came out, what was this when it first came out?

[Roman]

The MSRP on the watch is 168,000.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And it's selling for 380 right now. Exactly what is it going to be worth in 15 years? Back to 180.

[Roman]

This is where I wanted to talk to you about investments. Right. Notice I brought a little bit of everything. I bought the latest and the greatest and the hype. Right. But I also brought you proven pieces. The last auction result on this watch was a million and a quarter.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And that watch is how old?

[Roman]

This watch dates back to late 70s.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Early 80s, late 70s.

[Roman]

Got it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So that's an investment. You buy that, you set that aside, you're going to be fine.

[Roman]

But here's the thing that also depends on the quantities, right. And who actually owns these watches in the market. So if you think about it this way, if I needed to get you two of these, you call me like, I want one for me and I want one for him.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I would say, sorry, I like them a lot. So that much, not that much, but.

[Roman]

But my, my response to you would be, I'm sorry, I'm, I'm going to have a hard time. You're going to be like, well, why? Well, there's only six cities in the world, so what am I going to do? I sold one of these before, so this is the second one I have.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah.

[Roman]

I would go back to my client who paid me a million too, and say, listen, would you consider selling your watch? Now, people that are buying million dollar watches, they're not exactly somebody that are motivated by money. They're motivated by things that nobody else has and they can't have. And I'm gonna have to make him an offer he can't refuse. So if you buy that watch and tomorrow somebody wants it and say, you know what, Roman? I'll part with it, but I'll need 2 million. Imagine if you own the highest graded Mickey Mantle, the one that sold for 12 million bucks, right? And you're that collector. What would it take for you to get rid of that card? It would have to be some ridiculous offer or something where you. Oh, you know what? If you get me the number one Superman, I'll let go of this. Like. Like. Like on Ken's show, right? Remember that whole ordeal with the comic books? The last episode that he did or the last season? By the way, I'm interviewing with Alex at my office. When I get back on Thursday, they're doing a whole interview. They want to talk about Formula one and collectability. Alex Guillam, the one that was on the show.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, yeah. So, okay, so let's. So let's go back to this. So we. So if again, Patek, the idea of that watch that we looked at, you and I, the grandmaster, Rob, if you can go to it. So this watch, I think Slide just sold his right. 5.2. I think I saw 5.2. Was it five all in?

[Roman]

All in. It was five and a half million.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You're adding the 22% or whatever. You have to totally get it. So if you take the 22 out, you got to put it in there. I get it. Okay, so what makes this watch unique? Where when you and I were speaking, I said, how many of these you did they make? You're like, nobody knows how many they made. Is it 8? Is it 12?

[Roman]

Is it 16?

[Patrick Bet-David]

It's not high. Is it less than 20?

[Roman]

Most likely, yes.

[Patrick Bet-David]

More than 10?

[Roman]

Yes.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, so 10 or 20 of this they make. And it says the Grandmaster Chime is the most complicated Patek watch ever made. It boasts 20 complications, a reversible case, and two independent dials and six patent, innovations, development, production, assembly, process. Staggering. You mean to tell me this took 100,000 hours to make? 100,000 hours. So I was about to buy one. You and I talked about this, and you persuaded me to get away from buying it. And we talked about the dollar amount. It was good when we had to. By the way, just so you guys know, if you're thinking about buying a watch, you can manect Roman and ask him a question about a watch. Whether you want to buy a watch from him or whether you want to buy a watch from somebody else. You just want his counsel. You can send him a manect. And I would highly recommend you ask an expert like him before you buy a watch. He's on my neck. Download the app, go to Roman Sharp, or use a QR code. You can go ask a question from him. So what makes that watch be worth as much as it was? Where Mark Wahlberg won one, right. Sly had is that he sold and a few other people that owned it. And Sly made a video saying, I cannot believe I got this watch. He put his gloves on, the whole presentation. Remember when I'm sure you've seen, I.

[Roman]

Had that watch in my hands. I'm friends with Sotheby's, so I was.

[Patrick Bet-David]

There to preview what makes that watch that special. That right off the bat, it's not like it's an old watch. It's not like a prince had it, a king had it, a president had it. It's not like that's a watch from the Shaw. It just came out five years ago, and they're already asking that big of an amount right there. So for $5.4 million, show the watch that he's holding. Rob, what makes this so unique?

[Roman]

People want what they can't have. Now, Patek has what's called a application process. In order to get up to that watch and to be able to get it from Patek at retail, which is roughly about half that, Right. You would have to have a history with Patek dating back years. You have to start from the ground up, and you would have to buy an X amount of watches over years upon years upon years. Then you have to go through a vigorous interview process with Stern. He'll literally fly you out to Switzerland. Before he flies you out to Switzerland, he's going to say, what's your purchase history? How many pieces have you bought? You literally have to work your way up to starting with a $20,000 paddock to 200, 300, 400 to get to this, which is the ultimate grand complication. And this is the biggest scam that a company can create, and I salute them for it. Imagine this. You want to spend $2.3 million on a watch you call Patek Philippe, and they say, what have you bought from us before? Where's your history? Oh, you haven't bought enough from us. I'm sorry, we can't sell you this watch. Like, think about it. Think about what that creates inside the mind of a person that can afford this $2 million watch, and what do they. Do they go out in the secondary and they pay to say a fu. I have the watch. It's not. It's the. In availability. If you can't get it, you want it. Same thing with Richard Mill. You can't get them. There's a line that's a mile long for them.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Ferrari, you know, Ferrari dealership, and you know, the SP3 comes out and you look at the SP3, if you were on the list, you could have bought it for 2.4 million. Right.

[Roman]

But you have to have the SP2.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That's right. You have to have. And you have to have the SP1. You have to have a couple this and. But look at this guy. I just saw one two days ago in the. In the dealership.

[Roman]

They got a client of mine got that watch in purple.

[Patrick Bet-David]

The car in purple.

[Roman]

The car in purple. And I'm like, why?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Well, he's got. I would go purple.

[Roman]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

To your friend, whoever your friend is. Not my taste, but good for you. When I. When I see this car, you're just like, you freaking car. I want you. It's gorgeous. And I'm a Lafer guy. My youngest son, like the Enzo. So we look at the Monza, we want to get some kind of a collection to put in the hanger. But you want this SP3. If you're not in the system, haven't bought him, by the way, Jay Leno cannot stand Ferrari's point system, cannot stand how they work. I mean, he's been so critical that he doesn't even buy anything directly from them because he can't stand the fact that they do what he do. You need to own all these other cars with Patek, similar system, what you're.

[Roman]

Saying, it's literally exactly the same.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, perfect. So whereas in Ferrari, they want you to have a Testarossa, they want you to have a Pista, they want you to have a Italia, they want you to have a V12, they want you to have a discipline engines, different models that they look at. Right. What's Patex?

[Roman]

Patex is again, it's literally a volume.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Is it just dollar amount?

[Roman]

It's a volume as well as. As you going up in complications. Right. So let's say you start. You started with a California, let's say, and then you moved yourself up to a Pista 8.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Is it buying directly from them or from anybody?

[Roman]

It's buying either directly from them or buying from their authorized dealership.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Oh, perfect. So if you have bought it from authorized. Okay, so the levels, does it eventually Go to the point where they will make a one off just for you.

[Roman]

Yes.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So why'd you say they don't do it?

[Roman]

You said earlier that the exceptions are so rare. I've been doing this for 22 years. Yeah, okay. I sold four one off paddocks in my entire career.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So the sales guy in Venice, I just talked shit about you. He was telling the truth. So you could get to a point that they make one for your family.

[Roman]

Yes, but the amount of spent and the connection, it's also not just about the spend. It's also about who you know and how important are you of a figure. It's not about sometimes even the spend. But they have shied away from doing stuff that's unique for many, many years. The youngest piece, Unique Patek, actually we sold one last week, but that one dates back to the 70s. It was a unique dial, special order dial. It was an $880,000 Patek.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But there's only one of it.

[Roman]

There's only one. I've sold a 3939. If you saw that watch, we call it the billionaire's watch put in paddock 39. 39. That looked like a half a million bucks to you?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Is that what it is?

[Roman]

Yeah. Well, the one I saw was, I think the retail originally on the watch was somewhere around 300 and something when I first sold them. This watch was made with a black dial for someone at the time. The market on a Regular one was 350,000. That one sold for 550. Again, somebody had a relationship, somebody had somebody on the inside. Don't forget that happens too. Because that particular watch didn't really come from a collector. It came from an individual who poses a collector for many, many years had some inside hook within the company, managed to get that watch.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And then when it does, when it does happen with that relationship, whoever the individual is, what does that look like? Is that you go in. What do you want to be unique about it? What would you like it to have? Does it have meanings for your families? There are certain things.

[Roman]

There's going to be limitation out to wazoo. There's not going to be, oh, I wanted the orange dial with these markers and I want you to put a diamond at 11 o'clock. That doesn't happen.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But is it. Is it kind of like you go there and the artist tells you, here's what we're going to put together for your family or do you have any influence over the art?

[Roman]

You have some influence. For example, you can deviate just A tiny bit. Because most of these unique watches, they usually have some sort of a different dial and that usually translates into a color. So if a watch is normally not made with a black dial and you ask them for a black dial with red markers, they may entertain that.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Got it. So it's not. But you're not.

[Roman]

It's not. You're not going to see a dramatic difference. Most people won't know that that's a one off.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And why is it when it comes on to watches, would you put them at the top? Are they the cream of the crop?

[Roman]

So Rolex is King and Patek Philippe is the Rolls Royce. Right. When I say king, I say in terms of sales. I mean it's a company that spits out over a million watches a year. Their sales in 2023 were more combined than the other three brands below them in terms of sales. Right. Rolex is number one in terms of popularity up here.

[Patrick Bet-David]

There's Rolex, Mercedes, Rolex.

[Roman]

Yeah, I would say so.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And then Patek is Rolls Royce, Patek is Rolls Royce. And what makes Patek Rolls Royce?

[Roman]

It's the prestige. It's the prestige. Majority of their catalog is pretty conservative. They tend to. To a older crowd, a more successful crowd. I would say Rolex is a first money watch, right? My very first watch was a Rolex I bought at a pawn shop for a thousand bucks. When I got my first corporate job, my Rolex walked into a room five minutes before I did. Hey everybody, look. I have a Rolex on my wrist, right? People don't do that with Patek.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Why not?

[Roman]

It's more conservative. If majority of their lineup. What's hot now is their Nautilus is their stainless steel stuff. The young kids are wearing that because it's hot, it's popular. It's in all the rap songs, right? Where 90% of the Patek catalog you can get at a discount. You know that, right?

[Patrick Bet-David]

90.

[Roman]

90 of their entire catalog I can bring to you at a discount.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How much of a discount?

[Roman]

Anywhere from 10% to. If it's on a secondary, maybe less than half. Don't think that Patek and every single brand to include AP Big Almighty like Rolex. Rolex is the mightiest in terms of majority of their catalog today. Trading at over retail. That's how popular they are with Patek. It's Nautilus, it's Aquanaut and a few other brands. A few others.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I just typed right now Patek's. Patek's market cap $2.37 billion. And they're the third largest market cap and it got 6% of the market share. Okay. When you look at them.

[Roman]

Rolex.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Rolex. Rob, can you type in Rolex market cap to see. Rolex is at $11.25 billion market cap, Cartier's at 3.59. Omega's 3 billion. Yep, Omega's 3 billion. And these guys are at 2.6.

[Roman]

Omega is the, is the, is the money horse for Swatch Group.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So I noticed a stat that Humberto was showing me earlier. Only 2% of watches are made in Swiss Switzerland. Yet 50% of the value of watches is from there. Why is that?

[Roman]

Imagine what one is good for, right? If you look at certain countries, you can say, hey, you know what? Belgium's are known for their chocolate. It's the best chocolate. They invented chocolate, Right. I was actually at the shop where the chocolate was invented in Brussels, right. It's in the middle of Times Square, right. The shop is still there. It was done for medicinal.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How good was it when you had it? Like, right.

[Roman]

I love chocolate. So for me I'm just like. And then. But it's the idea. I am in the shop where it was invented and I'm eating this chocolate. It's like, you know.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah.

[Roman]

And if you think about a fancy watch, you automatically think Swiss and that sticks with you, right? You think about car engineering and I'm not talking about Ferraris or you think Germany, right?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Why the. Why is the history Swiss though? Why is there a history of two guys? And it's got.

[Roman]

So original watch started. The original, very first watch, as we know, was a drum pocket watch. That was done. The oldest known example that exists today dates back to 1525 to Germany. From Germany it went to England, it went to France, and then eventually it settled in Geneva. Back then, Geneva was a state, a country state. It wasn't part of Switzerland, it was just Geneva the state, right? And that's where all the craftsmen settled. It was just a question of where they were geographically. Now, the minute there's a center created for something, we're going back to 1700, 1600. The minute there's a center that's created for something, it becomes a hub, right? Just like a port city becomes a port and becomes an important trade route, right? Or trade hub, it's the same thing. And once you have a certain population of these craftsmen, the others will flock, apprentices will flock to learn and eventually that will grow. And that's how you end up with Geneva being the capital of the watch world.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So it's Kind of like Silicon Valley. That's what it is.

[Roman]

Exactly.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Exact same. That is.

[Roman]

Exact same.

[Patrick Bet-David]

They're over there building these. By the way, I saw this video, Rob. If you can pull this up about Rolex and this, this, this other guy who is a. Not this Rob. If you can go to the other one where I brought it, Jacob. You did. We'll get to that. There's a. There's a watch about. About Rolex where it says, hey, I can't stand the fact that they're doing XYZ by Rolex. And why do they do this similar thing that Jay Leno said about Rolex? I send it to you, Rob. We, we looked at it at lunch. If you don't have it, I'll text it to you. Here it is. And it's the distaste for whatever Rolex does. If you look at it, I just send it to you. You can pull this up. Yeah. And it was what makes people annoyed about Rolex. And I'm curious to know what your reaction is going to be to this. Go ahead, Rob.

[Roman]

Buy a Rolex. Yeah. What's so funny? We ain't selling you a Rolex. Well, I got the cash right here. If you buy $50,000 worth of jewelry, I'll put you on the waitlist. $15,000. How long is the waitlist? Yep. Anywhere between one to two years.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay.

[Roman]

Let's get 10 of those watches right there. Thanks for your purchase. We'll reach out if we have a Rolex for you.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah.

[Roman]

This is one of the reasons why I am absolutely sick of Rolex. The attitude, the arrogance, and definitely the dealing under the table. Because this happens every day. I like I you not. I was in America two weeks ago. This is literally what a dealer said to me. I'll help you out, but you need to help me out. You need to put some money under the table. It's a disgrace and it's bad for the industry. I would like to buy. Is that really so the fat, funny guy on the screen is actually a friend of mine. When he said he was in the US he was at my house. But let me, let me, let me tell you how it all works. Think about a store. You're a dealer. You have a Rolex line, right? And you're a business. Right. You get allocated only so many pieces. Now you go online and you say the number one most popular watch in the world is the Rolex Daytona. It's the most known watch. Right. And it's also the one that's consistently has Traded over to MSRP dating back to when I started, when The MSRP was 5,400. Right. Today it's 16,000. I'm a dealer. I'm getting allocated this watch, but along with it, I'm also taking 20, 30, 40 other pieces that don't sell over list. In fact, I have to discount them. They're also hard to sell. And I see a Roman out there selling at the peak of the market during COVID the Rolex stainless steel daytona traded at $60,000. Klein calls me up and he goes, roman, they're giving me a Daytona at retail. I said, okay, but they want me to buy a pair of earrings with it for $35,000. Do the math. 35 plus 16. We're at that $55,000 price range. What do you think of these earrings? What are they really worth? Because I'm going to dump them. I don't know, 700. I told him I can sell them that pairings for. If you did the math at the time, that Rolex traded at about $50,000. You take the earrings, they're not doing anything illegal where Rolex can't penalize them for it. But at the same token, they're getting all the money. You know why? Because all that dealer has to do is pick up the phone and say, yo, Roman, I got five Daytonas for you. What are you paying? Oh, market is 55. Here's 50 grand a piece. That's it. It's that simple.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Wow.

[Roman]

What happens with the Ferraris? What happens in car dealerships, you know, when these things are reselling for it? What you mentioned the SB3. What's the market? 5 million on it?

[Patrick Bet-David]

4 or $5 million. Exactly.

[Roman]

Yeah, but if I, if I. Now I got a guy that's sitting there making a $65,000 salary as a salesperson, and his job is to stand there all day, say, no, you can't have this Rolex. Let me put you on a list. I walk in there and say, hey, stun grand under the table. What is he going to do? It's real people. It's real businesses. It's not. It's. It's just reality.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, when you think about the business side of it, it is business. I mean, you got. You got to find a way to. But again, it goes back to it when I was in Monaco and I'm driving around and I'm talking to everybody about watches. What should I buy? You should buy this. And I'm trying to test everybody what they're going to be saying, there's a. There's a whole street in Monaco that's all watches. You go from one to the other guy to the other guy. And everyone's talk shit about each other, but they're all friends. It's an interesting. You should buy from me. He's a good guy, but you should buy from me. Here's what I can do for you and I buy.

[Roman]

Have you been to 47th street in New York?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Similar.

[Roman]

Do you have bulletproof underwear? Put them on.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Is that what it is when you go there? No, but it's an interesting thing when it comes down to these watches. By the way, I saw an article, Rob, if you can go to this and the President's timepieces. I don't know if you've seen this or not. We have the story right here. So if you can zoom out. Presidential timepiece. Look at President's luxury watches. Okay. And you get to judge, to see how their taste in their watches is. Keep going. Go lower. When it shows the pictures, Rob, go a little bit lower. Okay, there we go. So Joe Biden has. What is that Rolex right there?

[Roman]

It's a datejust 41 Jubilee.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, go to the next one, Rob.

[Roman]

Omega Speedmaster.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, so far, what do you think about his taste for watches?

[Roman]

I think it's very basic and plain and these are core pieces of anyone's collection that's into watch. And they're also. And they're also very subdued and they're. They're modest.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Makes sense. It fits them.

[Roman]

Speedy is an iconic watch. Another iconic watch from Omega.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This is an iconic watch.

[Roman]

Seamaster and speedmaster2, the most iconic watches from.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Not that expensive.

[Roman]

Not expensive at all.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But it's something that you ought to have in your collection.

[Roman]

Not that one, the Speedmaster. Above.

[Patrick Bet-David]

The one above it. Can you go back above, Rob? Yeah, that one, that one right there. Should have it in your collection is what you're saying.

[Roman]

You can buy them on a secondary pre owned anywhere from two to $4,000.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Oh, really? Okay, let's go to the next one, Rob. Keep going. How about this one?

[Roman]

Seiko, the $300 Seiko Again, this is. This is part of staying humble. This is probably something that was given to him by somebody carry some. Mind you, this is the watch that almost killed this watch industry back in 1969 when they invented the quartz watch. You know that, right?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Tell me about.

[Roman]

Well, so you had the quartz crisis in 1969. The Japanese came out with the Seiko and remember when it comes to watches, while people think that the main thing is aesthetics, innovation and things like that, the number one thing every watchmaker chases is accuracy. That's why you have all these tourbillon watches, triple tourbillons and so on and so forth. Right away that little thing almost single handedly killed the entire Swiss watch industry. Oddly enough, what saved the Swiss watch industry, you're not going to believe what it was. It was the Swatch watch because the gentleman in charge at the time said, you know what, we're going to fight fire with fire and we're going to create a Swiss quartz watch called the Swatch watch. And all the proceeds went back into the kitty and they saved brand. If it wasn't for that, it wouldn't be brands like Blancpain, Gluten, many, many Breguet and many, many others that would have died.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Interesting. I did not know that.

[Roman]

And now imagine that's like getting. It's like, remember, did you have a BlackBerry before? Yes, of course. And I swore by my BlackBerry and I would never get rid of my BBM messenger and all that stuff. And then the iPhone came out.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yep.

[Roman]

And what happened to the BlackBerry?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Game over came. They made a movie about it. I don't know if you've seen.

[Roman]

I didn't see the movie.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, interesting. Okay, how about. Well, this one's, this is the one.

[Roman]

That said it was going to kill off the Swiss watch industry when they came out in 2000. What, four, I think.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Did it all impacted at all?

[Roman]

Zero. Zero impact.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And they said it was going to.

[Roman]

Oh yeah. They thought this was going to be the next course crisis. I bought one of them. I didn't get rid of my fancy watch. I had it on the other wrist. And then I realized, I have enough notifications in here. Do I really need my wrist buzzing now? I'm good. And I took it off.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You don't wear it anymore? I bought one, I wore it for about two weeks and I never wore it again.

[Roman]

Same exact.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Two weeks.

[Roman]

Exactly two weeks.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And by the way, my son, it's somewhere in the. I don't even wear it anymore.

[Roman]

Did you see that comedian that told the joke about the whoop?

[Patrick Bet-David]

No.

[Roman]

His name is Modi. Funny ass guy. He goes, he goes, these young people, I don't understand. I'm on a beach, I see this guy and he goes, I'm like, what is, what time is it? He goes like, oh, my watch doesn't tell time. He's like, well, what is it? It's a whoop. Find Him. There it is. That's it. Oh, my God. That's the most hilarious thing ever.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Small generational difference.

[Roman]

Little things. I wear a watch I always wear. Since I was 13, I've worn a watch. Millennials don't wear watches. It's true. Apple Watch is not a watch. Sweetheart, checking your emails on your wrist is a cry for help. That's not a watch. The summer begins. We're on the beach. I see Leo with a black watch. I go, leo, what time is it? Because it doesn't tell you the time. Your watch doesn't tell you the time. It's not a watch. It's a whoop.

[Patrick Bet-David]

A whoop.

[Roman]

What does it tell you? He says, it tells you how you're doing. I said, well, I look at my wrist, I see a gold Rolex. I know I'm doing good. I saw this guy live.

[Patrick Bet-David]

He's hilarious. What time it is good for him. You were saying?

[Roman]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So you had it for two weeks and you got rid of his. Same here. Let's go to the next one. So that's Joe Biden.

[Roman]

Here's Trump Vacheron Constantine. I mean, this is most likely, again, something that was actually probably given to him. I would imagine this is something because this looks like they did a remake of this watch, right? And this looks like the original watch from 1968. This must have been passed down to him from someone that every so often they'll do a remake. They'll take historical watches. They call it the history collection. They're dubbing this to be the historic. I think this is actually one of the original ones from 1968.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Does. Is this a popular watch or. Not necessarily.

[Roman]

It's not.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, go to the next one. How about this one?

[Roman]

Patek Philippe ellipse. Now, the ellipse. And this is the smaller version of it. This is what was known as the old man's watch. This was the Patek's answer to the big chunky gold watch to show off kind of thing. Never really took off, was never popular. In fact, there's an ellipse out there, with the exception of a few rare ones, that sells way below its original price.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What is sell for today? If I wanted to get one, if.

[Roman]

I wanted to buy that, if I was to buy that today, they put a market price of 16,000 on it. I would be a buyer below 10.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You gotta be kidding me.

[Roman]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Wow. Go to the next one, Rob.

[Roman]

Well, the president, they date. Okay, so this is an old. This is an old date. It's 1-18-038. Right. And you have quick set dates and you have not quick said we have to turn the thing. Right. So a non quick set today. Wholesale price depending on condition. That bracelet looks beat to shit. Depending on condition. Is anywhere. Wholesale price to buy anywhere from 10 to $12,000. Sell for around 1516. I would pay Donald Trump $1,000,000 for his.

[Patrick Bet-David]

For his.

[Roman]

Yes.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That's a different story. Yes, Keep going Rob. You go Rob. Who do we have next? I think this is Obama. Now let's see what he's got.

[Roman]

Your gray. I mean Obama historically worn what we like to call fashion watches. Right? These are well made watches. They're not made to the highest standards of. Some of the stuff was made in China like movements, a lot of them Accords and they're basically cheap good looking watches. Hence they're called fashion watches. So this is not a significant watch.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Means nothing. This just looks good. You buy 90. Let's go, let's see the next one.

[Roman]

Now this is a Rolex Cellini. These are no longer made. This is the Rolex's stepchild as I like to call it. So when people say are there such thing as unpopular Rolexes? This would be it. This is their way to show unpopular Rolexes. Remember Rolex was always what a tool watch, right? Original back 50 years ago, 60 years. This was a tool watch. You needed to tell the time. You need to measure somebody's pulse. That's what they use them. They use it for a tool. Right. They're also waterproof. That's how the whole thing started with the Oyster case. This was their attempt at doing a dressier Rolex because every single Rolex is sporty, right.

[Patrick Bet-David]

It flopped.

[Roman]

So this, this was a collaboration with Cellini for many, many years and now they actually replaced it with a 1908 or something they called a new model. Looks very similar. When you want a Rolex that's not a Rolex you flex in. And that's why it's not popular. Interesting, because you can tell a Rolex from a move away. Would you be able to tell that's a Rolex?

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, not at all. Not at all.

[Roman]

Exactly.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Not at all. Keep going. Obviously that's a $40 time watch. He's probably trying to win an election.

[Roman]

I don't watch. Listen, this is. And then mind you, this was a man that spent 25 to $40,000 on cowboy boots. But yet he spent what, 40 bucks on a watch? 40 bucks on a watch.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Wow. 25 to 40.

[Roman]

But that's a flex. Think about it. That's a reverse flex. Obviously comes from a well off family. Right, of course. Got a ton of money. Where's $25,000 cowboy boots? But. But putting on a $20 watch with it, It's. There's a bit of a flex to that.

[Patrick Bet-David]

It's an indirect flex. Keep going, Rob. Keep going. Rob Clinton.

[Roman]

So long and sooner or Langens Sons, Richard Poor Limerick Manual Wine. So market price, $80,000. No, it's not. Probably pick this watch up in the low 20s. Low to high 20s. Again, original retail on this watch was somewhere around the $40,000 price range. And you'll find him on a second there. Anywhere from 30 to 40 off.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Wow.

[Roman]

I don't know who came up with 80 grand.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Well, he overpaid for Bill. Come on, Bill.

[Roman]

I don't think he shot. I don't. I don't think he paid.

[Patrick Bet-David]

If Hillary would negotiate, he wouldn't pay nothing. But keep going. Let's go to the next one.

[Roman]

Rob, would the salesperson still be around?

[Patrick Bet-David]

I don't know about that. I don't know about that. How about this?

[Roman]

Oh. So Jaeger, the culture master compressor. This was a. A diving watch. So JJ LeCoultre, or Jager as we call it in English. There were. They're known as a watchmakers. Watchmaker. Their watches are very reasonably priced when it comes to their retail price because they make all their movements. A lot of the companies in Switzerland, they use the factories to create movements for them. And they were always on. They were big on a Navy SEAL cake. And diver watches. This is part of the master. Master.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Who would know what watch this is? Like, who in what space would people know what watch this?

[Roman]

With watch guys, probably 7 out of 10 people would know. It has a distinctive profile. If you see the two big crowns, see the red things?

[Patrick Bet-David]

I see the two. That means that.

[Roman]

That means they're open. So, like you have to actually close them so you can go diving. So. And market price on this watch today is probably on the secondary. Probably maybe 5 to 6,000.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Would military guys own this or. No, it's got nothing. Okay, got it.

[Roman]

Especially Navy guys or SEALs.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Got it. Keep going, Rob. This is Reagan Rolex.

[Roman]

Okay, so a plain old. Plain old datejust no date. This is the cheapest Rolex that one could buy at the time. This is still the cheapest Rolex one can buy. Today's market price. Again, not Reagan's. On a watch like this with anywhere from two to $4,000. This is that beginner Rolex where you don't Have a big bank that people call us for, say hey, just let me get an old adjust. Got it. That was the watch I first know when I paid a thousand bucks. Yeah, that very one does not.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You own one.

[Roman]

That's cool.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So here's, here's where it gets interesting with John F. Kennedy's. So he's got this one. Are you familiar with this?

[Roman]

Yeah, it's an old omega from the 60s.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Most of them look like that for $350,000 in 05. Does that make sense to be that expensive?

[Roman]

Well, it's because of Kennedy got a Jackie. You know the sneaker scandal that I had. People offered me 50 grand for those sneakers. I paid nine. I mean they're still in my office. I didn't sell them.

[Patrick Bet-David]

The Trump sneakers.

[Roman]

The Trump sneakers, The ones that he signed. And they created that whole. I called the sneaker gate. I was dubbed the Russian Olga and all that stuff. So. So those sneakers to me are priceless. And this is a Kennedy piece. And why wouldn't you want that in your museum?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, I would mind it keep going.

[Roman]

Lower if it wasn't. If it wasn't his watch, I'd probably pay 1500 bucks for it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Are you familiar with this year?

[Roman]

Absolutely.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Tell us about this watch here.

[Roman]

So again I. There's another Marilyn Monroe watch that was auctioned up. This is the Rolex. They also auctioned off a Cartier, A small little tank Cartier. After that auction and the news broke, I sold 30 of them to women because they wanted the same look and feel. And those watches traded for about two grand I think though I think the Cartier fetched something also like 300 some thousand.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Is it true that this, this was a gift from Meryl Monroe to Jack?

[Roman]

Who knows?

[Patrick Bet-David]

By the way, that's May 29th of 62. She died two months later. Yeah, maybe he didn't like the watch.

[Roman]

Or maybe this the conspiracy theories are true. Yeah, maybe it was like, hey, why.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Would you write something like that and give it to me? Now my wife knows and she's gonna go spend some time with Onassis. And yeah, by the way, is there that watch? Like has that a watch ever showing up in an auction or anything or not really. Okay, got it, Rob. Let's see the next one here. What does it say? What would you. Would you do, Rob? Right there.

[Roman]

I was gonna copy and paste and see if I can.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You do that. Let's see if that watches ever sold Marilyn Monroe watch. So the Rolex watch given John of getting around the first time Although Kennedy never wore this and it's widely accepted as Lyndon Johnson is the president to give the timepiece its famous nickname. Marilyn Monroe made history with Rolex. What does that mean? Lyndon Johnson is the president to give the timepieces famous nickname. What is the nickname, Rob? You know, since the Rolex given the President it was officially the first state. Although Kennedy never wore this since Wallace went the day data gives an ability to tell it to her first watch. Yeah but I'm trying to see if there's any link between it or any credibility behind the story that she gave it to.

[Roman]

A lot of it's going to be hearsay.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Monroe gift made it to our radar. But that wasn't the only president in the White House. There were many a handful of other presidents with an expensive watch on the original day date. Also known as the President came in town. Interesting. 18K.

[Roman]

So the nickname they're referring to is that they nicknamed the watch the President. So the watch, the nickname is the President.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Got it.

[Roman]

That's what you asked.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So I'm asking to see if she actually gave that watch to him. Reporter JFK told his a to get rid of this watch and the note and it successfully stayed out of the public eye for more than four decades before hitting the auction in 05 and selling for 120.

[Roman]

It's worth a lot more than that today.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Oh, I would be. Wouldn't be surprised.

[Roman]

A lot more.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Wow. So there is some credibility behind this watch.

[Roman]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So go back to the list, Rob. I think we got a couple more left before we wrap up on that here. So this is Eisenhower, this is fdr. Do you recognize that watch or that's just a.

[Roman]

It's a Tiffany and company watch. So Tiffany and Company again, humongous retailer. You have to remember that while Rolex is king today, that wasn't the case many, many years ago.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So you had, you were king back.

[Roman]

Then we had a lot of retailers that were kings. Right. And that's why you have Tiffany Stamp Paddocks and Tiffany Stamp Rolexes that they back to those times and they sell for stupid money because there's very little of them. But Tiffany and company was a big name. And guess what? They everybody wanted a piece of the pie. Just like today. They wanted to jump into the game. They had a good enough name to sell it. Tomorrow you decide to make a PBD watch. You have enough of a following. Well, you'll sell some watches, right? It's the same concept.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Well, Trump made a watch. Isn't Trump selling his watches for like 100k or something like $100,000. What do you think about that?

[Roman]

Yeah, horologically not great. But from a, from a perspective of demand and the following that he has, he will sell 147 of those watches for 100 grand. There will be people that will buy because of him. There'll be people will buy it because they want to show him that they have the watch and that they bought his watch. Right. There are many facets to this. From a horological perspective. No, not a horological masterpiece, but from a perspective of a. I'm Donald Trump. Here's a gold watch for 100 grand. Trust me, there will be 147 people out there that will buy it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You think it long term this will have any kind of value?

[Roman]

Most likely not due to the fact that they're making 147 of them.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah. So gold sneakers, if they made. How many days did they make?

[Roman]

147.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So $14.7 million, give or take. Is there anything about the watch that makes it unique?

[Roman]

No.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And you're a fan of this guy?

[Roman]

Yes, I'm a fan of the man. I'm not a fan of the watch.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, listen, even more respect the fact that now, to be fair, you bought his sneakers.

[Roman]

Yes.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And what you pay for it?

[Roman]

Nine grand.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You pay nine grand for the sneakers?

[Roman]

Yes.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And I heard you wore it the day he won or the day after.

[Roman]

I sent you a text, remember?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, I remember that. What? What? Is that you?

[Roman]

That's me.

[Patrick Bet-David]

There you go.

[Roman]

This is what the Times of Philadelphia inquire. I don't know. I. I had people as far as Japan flying to do this interview and my phone threw up at the office. I was on Piers Morgan. I was on every news outlet under the sun. I'm like, guys, I bought a. I'm a sneaker head. I collect sneakers. I have over 100 pairs of sneakers. I figured in my mind these are worth at least 10 grand. You got the president, you got the gold sneakers, their friends and family. Only 50 made, only one signed. How can I go wrong? I got offered 12 and a half thousand a minute after I bought.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Is your sign.

[Roman]

Yes. That's the whole point.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You have the only signed one.

[Roman]

There were two pairs that he signed out of the 50. So the way sneakers release is they do a friends and family run. Right. The regular run was a thousand pairs. Then they do a friends and family. Those are the ones they usually give to people and think kind of like the Rolex I showed you. Earlier, right? So this was a friends and family pair. Now, regular sneakers, forget trump sneakers. Any other sneaker that's friends and family trees, usually 5 to 10x, it's regular pair because they're numbered. And it literally say friends and family on the box. That's what this was. On top of that, it was signed by him. So I said, sneakers are worth at least ten grand. I walk back to my son, who's in the sneaker business with dad. You out of your mind? How much did you pay? Two minutes later, guy walks up like, I'll give you 12 and a half. My son was like, okay, maybe it wasn't.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That's funny.

[Roman]

And then when the story broke and I was dubbed the Russian oligarch, people I. The highest offer I had on it was $45,000 for the.

[Patrick Bet-David]

For the shoe you sold or.

[Roman]

No, it's in my office front.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You won't sell.

[Roman]

It's. Listen, because of that, I got to meet him, right? I made this. I made the video where I talked about how the world went crazy on me and Dubian oligarch and this, that, and the other. One of the guys that follows me on my YouTube channel, who's a big watch guy and a fan of my channel, showed it to the president. He showed me my reaction video to people dubbing me a Russian Olga. I'm like, guys, I'm an army veteran. I was born in Ukraine. Get out of here. Right? I was. I was laundering money to Vladimir Putin by buying these sneakers.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah.

[Roman]

Understand, right?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah.

[Roman]

And guess what? He showed him the videos. Like, I want to meet this guy. I get a phone call. I get on the plane. Next thing you know, I'm at a golf club having lunch with the guy for two hours. It's great.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How was it?

[Roman]

It was amazing. It was. It confirmed my beliefs of why I wanted to vote for him is the fact that he's not a politician. He's a real human being with emotions, and he is exactly the way he is in person. It was a very casual conversation for two hours. We talked about business, politics. Fifteen minutes, he's talking to my son about sneakers and what he thinks I'm like. Here's the President, United States, 78 years old, talking to my 20 year old and asking him for his opinion. I'm just like, right. And it was just an amazing experience. You feel a powerful presence in a room, yet you don't feel like you're being talked down to. Right. The one thing that did it for me, that just told me that's really a real human being. None of this is an act. Is his phone rings, picks up, his voice changes, tone of voice changes. I knew it had to be Melania, because when my wife calls and I'm in the middle of a big business meeting and I'm Mr. Big Badass CEO, and then my wife goes like, oh, hi, honey. It's literally like, it was just real and it confirmed that that's the guy I wanted to vote for.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Very cool. I love that. And you said you're from Ukraine.

[Roman]

Yeah. So Soviet Union originally. I get it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This is why the war is going on. Your thoughts on Zelensky or Putin? How do you feel about those?

[Roman]

So one of the biggest heat that I caught after all this, how can you support Trump and how can you, you know, the, you know, he wants to cut off aid to Ukraine. I'm like, idiots. The war will stop the minute he walks into the office. He will be the one to stop the war. There's too much money being made on both sides. And I know how corrupt Ukraine is. I know how corrupt a lot of the former Soviet Republicans of Cherno countries are still are. It takes decades upon decades to get to a system where it's somewhat reasonable in terms of a government that is not corrupt. So. And I know it firsthand, if you want something done in Ukraine, you can pay people off still. Right.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Even all the way at the top.

[Roman]

Even all the way at the top. I cannot deny or confirm. Right. You know, at that point, I'm not, I'm not at that level. But listen, I have a nephew whom I got added at the minute that the war started, and I visited him numerous times and he was doing extremely well. He was in the restaurant business, had a few restaurants, kind of like a Starbucks, they call it Mary Berry over there. Right. And guess what? Zoning this. Go try to pay off a zoning officers United States. See what happens to you right over there, because what's the big deal zoning? Oh, There's a playground 20, 20ft away. Here's. Here's a couple of hundred bucks. Goodbye. And you get anything done that's on a very low level. Imagine what happens in a high level.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah. Do you think, Zelinsky, have you ever tried selling him a watch? Is there?

[Roman]

No, no, I don't have any direct contact.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Any chance of selling Putin a watch?

[Roman]

No, no. Putin wears a Blancpain aqualung.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, I saw. These are. These are the watches he has, right? This.

[Roman]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So what do you say about his watch?

[Roman]

So I don't know how True. This is. I don't know if he actually has those watches. The watch he was mostly seen wearing was a Blancpain Aqualon, which is about a 7,8 thousand dollar watch. Right? So that one, there you go. The other ones, I don't know where they got that information.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Low Rob, go a little lower. Keep going.

[Roman]

Yeah. So the Patek Perpetual 50 40, about a $45,000 watch.

[Patrick Bet-David]

It's a nice watch.

[Roman]

It is. It is the FP Jor. This is a watch that trades at like triple its retail value. This is the entry level Jor Chr. Blue they call it. It's blue and it's made out of tantalum. Really cool watch.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How much is that watch?

[Roman]

Today's market is 70,075.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Not worth buying.

[Roman]

It. It is.

[Patrick Bet-David]

It is worth buying.

[Roman]

It is. Fjorn, you know, one of the Here, this is one worth buying. This is the cream of the crop. He's known for his tourbillon one his sec ever second May tourbillon just fetched and set a record. It said sold for pull up Jordan record. $8.1 million it just sold for. It's the highest record for an independent watchmaker. That watch, that watch is around 550,000. This, yes. That's the journey to have.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And this is going to retain its value.

[Roman]

This is going to go up in value, actually.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This is going to go up in value.

[Roman]

So if you ask me for an investment piece outside of these vintage pieces, this would be another one I would want you to buy.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I can't fit this one, but it's gorgeous.

[Roman]

Open it all up.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You got.

[Roman]

Don't be afraid.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay.

[Roman]

There you go.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, this one's gorgeous.

[Roman]

And. And this. That that club was worth Empath. You want to try to get an allocation for FP Jordan. There's a circle and an inner circle and you have to literally give your left kindy to be allocated an FB Jordan, which is why pretty much all of them trade on the secondary 2 to 3 to 4x.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This is gorgeous. This is absent, by the way. This actually goes with this outfit.

[Roman]

There you go. I knew. I knew what you were. I knew what you were going to wear.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Can you imagine? All right, so I'm gonna make you an offer right now. $8.3 million.

[Roman]

That's the watch. Wow. That was the second watch he's ever made.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Who bought it?

[Roman]

I don't know. There were. I know there were two collectors. One came in from China and I think the other one was from Japan. Correct me if I'm wrong. There was a big bidding war and I know that it set a record. This is the highest ever number paid for an independent watchmaker, I. E. Not somebody who's part of a group who's around 20 years old. And Jorn, Francois, Paul Jorn, he is a beast when it comes to this stuff. So as I said, if because of the conversation we had earlier when we first met on the phone and you know, you asked me about investment type of watches, I wanted to show you something that's a little bit more diversified. It doesn't necessarily have to be something that's 50 years old. It could be something as modern that you simply cannot get. The horology is there, the popularity is there and the auction results are there.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Which. Which high end watch gets the most criticism most hate? Like, it's like, oh, those guys. You can just paint this hublot. Really? Why Hublot?

[Roman]

Because of my little fat funny friend that you just saw on the screen. Because he has a following on YouTube as well. I think my YouTube is a half a million followers. He's like at a million and a half, right? He's extremely funny and he is somebody that started talking on hublot a little while back.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Did it actually work? Like, did they take a hit?

[Roman]

No, nothing. They just build a third. I was just in Switzerland. I was visiting some of the factories I do business with and I drove by them. They started with one five story building, then two. Now they have three. Trust me, they're thriving and they're smart because they support soccer.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Do you have hublot yourself?

[Roman]

Of course.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You like hublot?

[Roman]

Of course.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I love Hub about Jacob and company.

[Roman]

Absolutely love them for two reasons. Tell me, number one, you know the five time zoned iconic one. Who was it? It was Drake that just wore two of them. Remember, it was all over the thing. That was a watch that was the movement. Was made in China. The case was made in China. It was a cheaply made watch with a diamond bezel that had a carat and a half of diamonds and a colorful dial and it worked off of a battery.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Which one?

[Roman]

No, not that. Put in Drake five times on. Right there, you can see it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Second one down.

[Roman]

Yeah, that's it. Right. The original is actually down on the bottom. See that? The colorful one. That one. Right. So the very first version he made of it and that was a watch that was, I don't know, originally like six or $7,000. This is Jacob the jeweler who was in a booth, who started in the booth that was the size of just this part of the table you're sitting on on 47th street in the corner of 5th and 47th or 6th and 47th. Right. He sold a lot of hip hop jewelry. He sold a lot of stuff to hip hop artists. And then he said, why don't I make my own watch? And that's what he made. It was the cheapest made watch ever. And guess what? I put that watch in the top 10 most iconic watches ever.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Really?

[Roman]

Yes. Alongside with masters like Audemars Piguet and Patek Philippe. Why? Because of what it did and what this man has accomplished. Going from a booth this big to where he is today, where, I mean, building apartment complexes, the tallest in the world, and making watches such as this and the celebrities that wear them, he revolutionized. He took the stuffy Swiss watch industry and he brought the world of hip hop and flex into it. He is the king of flex. He is the guy that you want to flex here. His $700,000 on this all yellow cut baguette diamonds and it's a 700K. Yes. And guess what? He now is no longer making his watches in China. Obviously he's to horology to the next level. Did you see Jay Z wearing the Bugatti watch he just came out with? I had that on my wrist in Geneva. I would proud to flex to say I was the second person to get that watch after Jay Z. But he now uses a factory, a company called Concepto, which they make some of the most innovative movements and some of the most highest quality movements. So he went from that time zone watch to creating something like that and that entire animation that works. You press a button and those cylinders go up and down.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And what did that sell for? What does a watch like that go for?

[Roman]

The retail on that watch is 380,000.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That. Yeah.

[Roman]

And good luck finding one.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You won't find that watch worth buying or no.

[Roman]

If you want to flex, if you want to have that watch and if you believe in Jacob, the man himself, then yes, I'm getting one.

[Patrick Bet-David]

There's watches that I hear like, don't waste your time buying anything. You know, with those guys. I hear the criticism from guys in a marketplace on who know. I've heard hublot, I've heard a few others. I've heard him sometimes with their 1. By the way, some of the stuff is really creative. Matter of fact, Rob isn't there. They have a $20 million gold watch. Right. It wasn't there something that.

[Roman]

Yeah, the billionaire, right? Yeah. Pull up, pull up. Jacob and co Billionaire.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Is that what it's called, the watch?

[Roman]

It's called a billionaire.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Rob, see if there's a video.

[Roman]

That's it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That's a $20 million watch. As he sold it. Does anybody own it? Does he still have it himself?

[Roman]

Not yet, but he sold. There's. This is one of the variations. He made many of those. Like Floyd Mayweather had one. A couple other guys had one.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Who has the biggest watch collection? Who has the biggest watch?

[Roman]

It's going to be tough to say, because do you quantify by a dollar amount or. Or amount of watches? There's guys out there that have thousands of watches, but they're not quality quality.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Because, you know, somebody could have it.

[Roman]

From the world, from the world of celebrities. You got guys like John May, guys like Mark Wahlberg. You got guys like Kevin O.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So it's not billionaires.

[Roman]

Not really.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Really. Because Bill Gates wears a $40 watch. He wears like a.

[Roman]

He doesn't care.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, he doesn't care.

[Roman]

Remember. Remember what I told you When. When you said I wanted. I want to see if I can get this $5 million watch. I asked you, how many guys do you know that can afford the watch? You said, okay, that's a small pool. I said, and out of that pool, how many of those guys actually be willing to spend 5 million? Because some guys will be willing to spend 5 million bucks on a rookie Babe Ruth card versus an expensive watch and wear a Timex. Right. It's not.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah.

[Roman]

Watches are not. It's. You have to be into this stuff.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I was about to get it, and then I put it elsewhere. But by the way, Rob, there's a story. If you can pull this one up, and then we can maybe wrap up on the finish. Two more stories I want to go through, and we'll wrap up the story of a watch, Hitler's watch that sold for $1.1 million. Did you follow this?

[Roman]

No.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So if you go to this one, there's a story of there was a watch he had. Is that it? Yeah, right there. So Hitler's Watch sells for $1.1 million at controversial auction, called it a porn letter. Go a little lower to see what the watch is. So despite this, Virgin Maryland has sold a wristwatch believed to have belonged to him for 1.1 million. What is the watch? Go up to see if he can recognize the watch. Do you know what watch?

[Roman]

It's a Jaeger Lecoultre Reverso from the early 30s. The reversal was originally created in the 30s. It was made for polo Players it flips over so you can protect the watch as they're playing the match.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What's special about this watch?

[Roman]

It's one of the most top iconic watches out there. It's made till this day. They're about to celebrate 100 year anniversary not too long from now. And again what's special about it is the fact that it belonged to Adolf Hitcher Hitler. That's it. There's you know you can buy, you can buy a vintage reverser from the 30s for you know, 5, 10, $20,000 depending on condition.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Who bought it by the way? Alexander auctions based on Rob go back on his Maryland sold a controversial anonymous Anonymous buyers of the who wants to.

[Roman]

Be the guy to say about Hitler's.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Watch Including a golden eagle from Hitler's bedroom several of the genocide of dictator sketches and painting and dress that belonged to Eva Brown his wife Auction house believed Hitler received a reversible gold watch made by Andre Subra on April 20, 1933 and his 44th birthday bears the letter ah swastika and a Nazi. Wow. A French soldier nabbed the watch made for them when his allied unit reached Hitler's summer house in Bavaria. According to auctions the watch and its history have been researched by some of the world's most experienced and respected watchmakers and military historians all of whom have concluded that it's authentic and indeed belonged to Hitler proxy.

[Roman]

Well consider that my real grandfather died in World War II fighting the Nazis. I wouldn't be the buyer for that watch as you can imagine. Right. And, and considering what I wouldn't buy a Stalin watch either, you know so for me it's, it's again there are people out there, believe it or not, a lot of the Nazi memorabilia that's being sold and traded today I actually purchased by Jewish people. Did you know that?

[Patrick Bet-David]

To get rid of them.

[Roman]

Not to get rid of them. To make sure that the world doesn't forget I'm Jewish. So I know there's a lot of Jewish collector out there that collect Nazi memorabilia.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Would you buy this? Would you buy this watch?

[Roman]

No.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Why wouldn't you buy it?

[Roman]

To me it's. I have, I have, I have. Well they're no longer with us but I've had people in the family that had the tattoo on their hands. So to me this gives me goose. I was just reading about it. I would completely against it would not do it. I don't care how collectible it is and I can see how people can say it's super collectible. It's this. That's not a man that did a lot of good in this world.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I agree. So I agree. I lived in Germany for almost two years and we went to. I lived in Erlangen, so we were a few minutes away from Nuremberg, and we used to go there. History, just seeing all this stuff. The history of it.

[Roman]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This guy was in it. Did you ever read his book Mein Comfort? No.

[Roman]

No.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah. Very, very weird guy on what he did. Rob, go to the Tyrese clip. This is the next one I want to show you. So here's Tyrese. Okay. I don't know if you've seen this or not. It's a very interesting clip. But he's talking about, you know, the jewelry and the watches he has, whether it's real or not and why. Go ahead, Rob. No, you can't tell.

[Roman]

You know why it's not real?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Because I've lost so much of this shit. I just spent the half a million dollar loan. The fucking watch. Call Jacob the Jeweler, nigga. Call all of them. All your most favorite popular jewelers online. And all got my black Centurion. You don't know what Centurion is that?

[Roman]

Platinum card? No, that's interior card.

[Patrick Bet-David]

A black card. They know what that Centurion is. That thing goes through. I'm good. I don't lose no sleep over trying to win the popularity contest from showing up with all this jury that I'm going to leave on a nightstand and have a housekeeper to say, I don't know. I'm sure you don't know. I'm sure you don't know what. I'm 250.

[Roman]

I agree with his point, but I am completely anti fake stuff. If you are buying something fake for the purpose of flexing and people give me the excuse, oh, well, I travel to places where it's dangerous and therefore I choose to wear a fake watch. I just don't wear a watch if you're gonna. The amount of time, effort, history, innovation, hard work, sweat and tears that goes into these little marvelous things that I like, we like to call watches, is in. It's immeasurable. I can talk to you about for 10 hours. If I go down every single watch, we'll need another eight hours to talk about it, right? I have respect for those that innovated over the last few hundred years. I have respect for those that created something that people thought was impossible to do. I just showed you a watch that has an animation on a screen. It chimes out the time and there's no battery inside. Right. The craftsman that put the diamonds into this Jacob watch or the double spherion watch that you see over there.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What is that one?

[Roman]

This is a Purnell double spherion watch. Yeah, please. It was. It was done by a gentleman named Eric Kudray, who is the second or simultaneously created what's called a 3D tourbillon that spins across three axes. Right. Because the original tourbillon was made for the queen for her pocket watch because it was running slow. So Breguet invented it to make the pocket watch run on time, and that was only working if it was perpendicular to the ground. This is 3D. That's a $1.6 million watch.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That's a 1.6 million.

[Roman]

It's also made entirely out of a piece of crystal. So, you know, the crystal on top of your watch, that entire watch is made out of that.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Wow.

[Roman]

The error rate on creating Those crystals, probably 7 out of 10 fail because you're literally cutting it out of a crystal. It's tough. But when I see somebody put on a fake watch because they're doing it for one reason or one reason only, there's no doubt in my mind that this is flex and flex only. You're trying to impress somebody. And to me, that is like the worst thing you can do to a watch. At least for me. If you come in and you wear a fake watch, and I will know. I will know from across the room. It happened to me. And an event. We did an event with Selling Orange county, the girls that sell real estate. We did a charity event with them. Guy walks in with a Richard mail, and he was probably 20ft away when me and Adrian goes, oh, that's fake. He didn't even know he got actually duped. Oh. So he says. But fake watches and doing what he does. And you know what? Don't wear anything. That's it. I just. I'm very anti faith.

[Patrick Bet-David]

It's interesting that billionaires don't have a big watch collection. Like, you know. You know what I would do.

[Roman]

They do. You just. They just don't show it, and you don't know it. I have. So we did an event. It was a client appreciation event at the Aqualina in Sunny Isles here. And Kevin O'Leary actually showed up when he wasn't even. Somebody brought him in. That room we had. We invited 150 of our top spenders. So in that room you had, everybody's net worth started with an M. And there were six people in the room whose network started with a B. And those Guys have watches, you just don't know about it because they're not in the limelight in the likes of John Mayers or Mark Wahlberg, etc or Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan has a purnell, by the way.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Which one?

[Roman]

This one? No, this is a piece unique. It's a one off. So he has a similar. He has a red crystal.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Really?

[Roman]

And he paid for it. He wasn't given to him. Michael Jordan's a huge collector.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What's the most unique watch he's got? Oh, is that the one Pernell did? A top, right?

[Roman]

Yes, that's it. That's the one.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What's the most unique thing he's got?

[Roman]

Ah, it's tough to say because there's really no information. I never sold on watches. I wish I did. I would love to sell the greatest player of all time a watch, but I don't know. I know he's got a ton of watches. I know he's got a lot of artwork. I know he's got. He's got two purnells. And the stuff that you see online, it's not necessarily true, right? People find pictures, they see images. Well, that could have been an image taken if you tried something on. Does he own it? I don't know.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Makes sense. Yeah, he's. I don't know why. He gives me the vibes of somebody that's got a big watch collection.

[Roman]

He has a huge watch collection that I can tell you.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Who have you sold watches to over the years? Like, who have.

[Roman]

So I keep. I keep my client list fairly private.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Anything that's public that people would know.

[Roman]

I don't. I don't make it public.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So people want to know who you've.

[Roman]

Sold it or no. Unless.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Unless.

[Roman]

So I'm not. So there's guys in my industry, we call them clout chasers. Right? Oh, my God. I sold Patrick Beth David a watch. Unless Patrick Beth Davis decides what you did it on your podcast. In fact, you didn't even mention my name. You just said Roman on your podcast when you bought your wife a watch, you said, I bought it from a guy named Roman. That was the clip. I had a thousand people say, hey, Patrick by David just gave you a shout out. They knew it was me. And the only.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You only mentioned the Roman watch. People know Roman watches. They put.

[Roman]

They figured, right? They figured it was me. So, you know. But if tomorrow you decide, you know what, Roman, I'm going to purchase this watch from. I'm going to make an Instagram post and I'm going to Tag you. Great. I will never ask you.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Well, let me tell you what I'm. I like. I like the way we've done business together. My experience has been superb with you. And I said that at the beginning and I said it. The best kind of sponsorships are the ones where you don't ask for it and the customer does it. And that's why I said everybody should go on Manect and ask you questions before they make a purchase for a watch. It's good to have access to somebody live.

[Roman]

I'm going to be live as soon as I get back. I'm just finishing a couple of things. With your girls? Yeah, they're going to. They're going to look at my setup. I'm probably going to go live next week with it. And again, I'm taking all the proceeds and they're all going to my charity.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Fantastic. Respect you, Roman, for me. If you want to know what this customer is looking for. Okay. Anything with history tied to my community. Iran, Shah, Syrian, Armenian.

[Roman]

Pull up Audemars Piguet, Cobra. Go to my website. Actually go to louise.comseamus plug. Type in Cobra. Just click the whole thing right here. I just go to Autumn rpg. It's fine. There we go. So.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Oh, this is the one.

[Roman]

So the Shah wore the watch. If you go third to the right, that's the watch that he wore.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That's his.

[Roman]

Not. If it was his, it'd be a lot more money.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What I'm saying to you is I want. What was his. I want to know what he had. I'm interested in that.

[Roman]

Okay.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Because that if you got something like that, or we got four years to go till I'm 50, if we find out something, someone that we can make, something that's going to be unique to people that are important in my life.

[Roman]

I can get that done in the next two weeks. So don't worry about it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So that's the other one to be thinking about to be unique from a bigger name that we have. Okay, so that's that part. And then the last one would be a one off from, you know, paddock or somebody like that that we can make for the family. I would have a lot of interest in that to put something there. So if we had to.

[Roman]

Well, I appreciate you giving Mission Impossible. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast and leaving me with Mission Impossible.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You said you were very competitive, man. I said, let's, you know, let's do it. Let's have a conversation.

[Roman]

For sure.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah. So those are the things that I'm interested in. To me, I don't have any fake watches. I'm not in a business of having fake watches. To me, it's purely about passing it down to the kids. I've never sold a watch. Like, I've never. I've literally never bought a watch to sell the watch. Even when you and I were talking about that grandmaster, I would have bought that to one day give it to my grandkids. I would have bought that to keep it in the. I have three children.

[Roman]

So you pitch into the choir. I know exactly how you feel. That's one of the most important things in life to me, is my family. That's the number one most important thing. I told you before, for me, it's family, God, country. I'm a simple guy. That's what I believe in.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I love it. And you like nice sneakers, so you have good taste.

[Roman]

Yes.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This was great, man. I really enjoyed it. It's good to finally meet you face to face.

[Roman]

Absolutely.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This was fantastic. Appreciate you for coming up, brother.

[Roman]

Thank you so much.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And guys, all the links, everything will be below. Take care. God bless. Bye bye.

[Roman]

Thank you, guys. Guys. I get a million DMs a day. You guys are asking me, how do I get into the watch industry? Well, I've been doing this for 22 years. I don't have time to answer a thousand dms a day. I try my best. However, all those questions can be of me on minecht. And all the proceeds from those will go to my charity.