"Trained As A Spy At 10” - Sex Trafficking Survivor Anneke Lucas NAMES Her Billionaire Abusers | PBD Podcast | Ep. 511

Summary

PBD Podcast - Episode 511 Summary: "Trained As A Spy At 10” - Sex Trafficking Survivor Anneke Lucas NAMES Her Billionaire Abusers

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Introduction

In Episode 511 of the PBD Podcast, host Patrick Bet-David engages in a profoundly disturbing and emotional conversation with Anneke Lucas, a survivor of sex trafficking. The episode delves deep into Anneke's harrowing experiences, including her trafficking at a young age, abuse by high-profile billionaires, and her courageous journey towards healing.

Anneke Lucas's Background and Early Trafficking

[00:30 - 07:08]
Patrick Bet-David begins by setting the stage for a difficult but necessary discussion about the pervasive issue of missing children in America, citing FBI statistics of 359,000 missing children as of 2022. He introduces Anneke Lucas, highlighting her bravery in sharing experiences that span over a decade, including naming prominent abusers for the first time.

Notable Quote:
"This is a very disturbing, uncomfortable interview to watch... with the 359,000 missing children in America, what else do we need to do?"
— Patrick Bet-David [00:30]

Experiences with Traffickers and High-Profile Abusers

[07:08 - 24:30]
Anneke recounts her traumatic childhood, starting at age six when her mother, who struggled with undiagnosed mental illness, became complicit in her trafficking. She details her time in Belgium under the control of Paul Van Den Boeynants, a prominent Belgian politician who later served twice as Prime Minister.

Notable Quote:
"He loved being behind the scenes, creating this elite sex slave who was going to make him millions."
— Anneke Lucas [03:58]

Anneke also reveals her interactions with David Rockefeller, describing him as a central figure in the trafficking network. She was trained as a spy, forced to engage with powerful men to gather information for blackmail and control.

Notable Quote:
"He was a pedophile... He bought me some dresses and some clothes and everybody, you can imagine, everybody's so happy to see him, so happy to serve him."
— Anneke Lucas [37:36]

Mind Control and Abuse Techniques

[24:30 - 47:09]
The conversation shifts to the psychological manipulation and mind control Anneke endured. She explains how her captors employed torture and programming to break her spirit and enforce obedience, such as associating certain triggers with physical pain.

Notable Quote:
"When I saw his face, I felt like I was dying... I had to really just go into the breathing and really, really just work through that programming."
— Anneke Lucas [35:00]

Anneke describes her rigorous training sessions in Germany, where she was coerced into behaviors and performances designed to craft her into a controllable asset for the network's purposes.

Escape, Healing, and Current Mission

[47:09 - 85:23]
Anneke details her eventual escape from the trafficking network, which involved a near-death experience and the intervention of a gangster who rescued her. She emphasizes the long and painful process of healing, which spans over three decades, and her commitment to helping other survivors through her writing and psychological modalities.

Notable Quote:
"Everything I do is to help it. I heal, I work with other people that have been through it."
— Anneke Lucas [85:23]

She discusses the manipulation of media and politics by the trafficking network to maintain control and prevent accountability. Anneke advocates for greater awareness and action to combat these hidden networks.

Impact on Society and Call to Action

[85:23 - End]
Patrick and Anneke engage in a candid discussion about societal division, media control, and the co-optation of movements like feminism by malicious entities within the network. Anneke urges listeners to support her book, "Quest for Love," as a means to shed light on these dark truths and foster healing.

Notable Quote:
"This is a global elite network... they use their resources to control their image."
— Anneke Lucas [47:03]

Patrick reinforces the importance of addressing child trafficking and supporting initiatives that protect children, urging listeners to take action through supporting Anneke's work.

Notable Quote:
"Let's bring more attention to this discussion. I think we did more good than bad by having this conversation."
— Patrick Bet-David [107:25]

Conclusion

This episode serves as a stark reminder of the invisible battles many survivors face and the intricate web of abuse woven by powerful individuals. Anneke Lucas's testimony shines a light on the need for societal vigilance, accountability, and comprehensive support systems for victims of trafficking and abuse.

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Support Anneke Lucas: To support Anneke's mission and learn more about her journey, listeners are encouraged to purchase her book, "Quest for Love." Links and additional resources are available in the podcast description.

Transcript

[Annika Lucas]

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[Patrick Bet-David]

In wealth management, Merrill.

[Annika Lucas]

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[Patrick Bet-David]

Want to shop Walmart Black Friday deals first. Walmart plus members get early access to our hottest deals. Join now and get 50% off a one year annual membership. Shop Black Friday deals first with Walmart plus see [e-mail] I want to start off by saying this is a very disturbing, uncomfortable interview to watch. If you're watching this with your kids, they're 12, 10, 14 years old, this is not the one for them to watch. This is 18 and above. If later on you feel comfortable as a parent to have them watch it, do it. You're going to see every emotion in here. There was extreme tension in certain moments. Tears, laughter, tension, debate. I had to bring my booker in, Tony, because some of the accusations that were made to clarify certain areas and Tony came in here, some of this. She, she shared some names she's never shared before. Two of the names that she was a sex worker for. I don't. You can't even say sex workers at 10 years old. It's human trafficking. One of them, she claims, who was a powerful billionaire. You know the name that she would go to the Bilderberg event party in Europe and she had abusers who had sex with her at 9, 10, 11 years old. And she would come back and report these stories back to the billionaire, what that information was used for. You know, obviously your imagination can take you to wherever you want to take it, but the reason why I wanted to have this conversation, it's not, it's not. This is not a podcast. You want to sit there? I can't wait to watch this one here. But I think we have to because, you know, with the 359,000 missing children in America as of 2022, according to the FBI, what else do we need to do? Just sit around and not talk about it? No, no, no. You know what? It's just too disturbing to watch. It's just too disturbing to watch. Someone's kid is missing. Do we not bring light to it? Do we not address it? I just feel it's our responsibility. And every once in a while I do These. Because I think it's our responsibility to bring attention to it. And many of the positions that she took and claims she made, multiple were prime ministers, multiple were billionaires. These are her claims. And while we're going through it, she was pushed back on some of the claims. But I advise you to go do your own due diligence, your own research while you're going through this. At the same time, while it's not easy to talk about these types of stories, it takes a lot of courage to talk about it. I also don't want to sit there and, you know, claim everyone's guilty. I believe innocent till proven guilty, but I believe go do your research and your own due diligence on the names that she's dropping, and that'll help you understand for yourself as well. If, especially if you're somebody that's interested in this specific issue as much as I am, I do think it's something that we need to bring more attention to. Having said that, enjoy this uncomfortable interview that I had with Annika Lucas.

[Annika Lucas]

They wanted to control who? Everybody.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Did you ever meet him?

[Annika Lucas]

Meet him? Oh, yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What was he like?

[Annika Lucas]

Horrendous.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Unpack it.

[Annika Lucas]

He loved being behind the scenes, creating this elite sex slave who was going to make him millions.

[Patrick Bet-David]

It's $150 billion. Your industry.

[Annika Lucas]

No, no. This is a global elite network with specific people in it, and they're not all friends, so there can be infighting happening as well.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Mind control training at 9 years old?

[Annika Lucas]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Why did they take you there?

[Annika Lucas]

A ritual.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Politically related or business?

[Annika Lucas]

No celebrity.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You've never talked about this?

[Annika Lucas]

I've never said his name. I can't just flop these names out. I have to. I just be a person.

[Patrick Bet-David]

We would know.

[Annika Lucas]

Definitely. You would know. You would know the name.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Alive or dead.

[Annika Lucas]

I didn't think that this was going to be the kind of conversation we were going to have.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So the audience doesn't think I'm cornering you. You told Tony that you wanted to name names. I would. I.

[Annika Lucas]

No, I didn't say that at all.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Come on, Tony. So when you told me, you said she said she wanted to name names that she's never named before.

[Annika Lucas]

All right, I'll tell you something. I was trained as a spy that week. I was sleeping with men. And then I would go report on their weaknesses or their sexual preferences. I'm not saying. Did you ever think you were making. I know this life meant for me.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Why would you bet on Goliath when.

[Annika Lucas]

We got bet David.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Valuetainment.

[Annika Lucas]

Giving values Contagious.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This world of entrepreneurs, we gain no value to haters. How they run, homie.

[Annika Lucas]

Look what I become.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I'm the. I'm the one. Okay, so today's story will be very uncomfortable to listen to, but it's a story that we all must be willing to have the courage and the toughness to listen to. Some stories, you just. You're like, man, I have so many things going on in my life. I don't want to hear a story like this. But it's happening in America. According to the FBI, there are 359,094 entries for missing children as of 2022. We don't hear a lot about it. You know, when we had George Floyd incident, everything shut down. Every mainstream media talked about it. $2 billion of damages, local business owners. It had to be on all of our minds. But here's a question for you. 359,000 children missing. Tell me what's more important than talking about something like that? No one wants to talk about it. Why? It's uncomfortable. The audience doesn't want to hear this story. Come on, just leave it alone. Let's talk about politics and Trump and economy and all this other stuff. We chose to talk about it. And today's guest is a brave woman who has been talking about this for the last 11 years. Some of you may have heard her story before, some of you may have not. There's certain things she's going to say today she's never said before, and that takes a lot of courage to take. But I'm. I'm looking forward to having this conversation with Annika Lucas. Thank you so much for being here with us on the podcast.

[Annika Lucas]

My pleasure.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So I go through the story, and for a person that reads this, you think it's a movie. You don't think it's real when it says, trafficked as a young child at 6 years old, sold by her own mother to Belgium pedophile ring. And you counted the number of hours you were raped that I saw and used your words when you say this. Six hours a week, 1,716 hours before the age of 12. I listened to that. I'm like, that is unbelievable to hear someone go through it, but that's your life. So if you don't mind, and I know this is not easy to do, if you don't mind taking a few minutes and sharing with the audience your story, and it will take it from there.

[Annika Lucas]

A few minutes.

[Patrick Bet-David]

We'll be together for two hours.

[Annika Lucas]

But the story, okay, yes. Essentially, my Mother was mentally ill, I guess, never diagnosed. And she was single at first and I was abused very early on. She was married when I was three. And then first this couple came into our, into our lives. The, the woman was the cleaning lady and she and her husband would take me on outings when I was five. That started and so that went on for a whole year. I didn't like them. I never wanted to go. I had to. My mother had my brother then. And after a year they took me, well, they took me to an event and it was immediately extreme. It was in a castle. It was horrific. And my mother, my mother, I tried to tell her that bad things had happened. You know, I didn't have the language, obviously. It was just around my sixth birthday. And my mother then took over from these pimps. She then started driving me to locations. She would receive a call, she would drive me. I found out later that she was paid. And these were in Belgium for three years. I was just trafficked in Belgium. And the head of that, I call it the network in Belgium, was the Minister of National defense at the time, Paul Van Den Boonants. And he used the children to get new people in and also to give them sometimes to really, you know, through blackmail.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You said he was the national defense. He became a two time prime minister later on, right?

[Annika Lucas]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So this is before he serves as a prime minister.

[Annika Lucas]

It might have been after also he served twice. So yeah, I'm not sure.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But could have been before and after.

[Annika Lucas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yep.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So at this point when this is happening to you, you know who he is or you don't know who he is?

[Annika Lucas]

No, I didn't know anybody at the moment. In the, at that time I didn't know any. Who anybody was. I had no idea.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How did you learn about who they.

[Annika Lucas]

Were afterwards in my adult life?

[Patrick Bet-David]

How though?

[Annika Lucas]

Well, they were very easy to find. Most of them were very easy to find. I would just, you know, if I remembered a name and just started remembering people thanks to Google, really just starting to Google and finding them very easily.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Just the faces you would recognize or what was the method?

[Annika Lucas]

Yeah, yeah. Looking for their positions. I would know whatever I had. I would type that in and then usually they would come up right away. That was the surprise. That was the big surprise really, that I had no idea that they were this prominent when I was a child.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And when this is happening to you at the time, they don't have a name. They're not coming to you with a name. You don't know who it is.

[Annika Lucas]

Well, him. I called him Polo.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Polo.

[Annika Lucas]

Polo. But his name is Paul. But there's other children that named him something else. So I called him Polo. And then some people, I knew their first name, but, yes, they're very visible. Some I've found out from quite a few perpetrators when they die, because then they're in the newspaper and I suddenly see their picture.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So how many of them you knew about when they were alive? You said, that's this person. That's that person when they were alive?

[Annika Lucas]

Well, actually, I've recognized quite a few when they died. And that's not only, I think, because I may have remembered certain things, but I may have not remembered who they were specifically to keep myself safe. In some strange way, that the healing that then followed, I. I just understood that it wouldn't have been safe. I wouldn't have been able to. To. To keep myself safe, if that makes sense, because the. The healing process is so involved, and it does. There's certain perpetrators I was very attached to emotionally. I know that may be very hard to understand and believe, but I was very attached emotionally to some of these, which were like fathers.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What was your relationship with your father like?

[Annika Lucas]

Well, my. My biological father I didn't meet until much later. I never met him.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How old were you the first time you met him?

[Annika Lucas]

18. And so. So he didn't recognize me. And then my stepfather was the man who closed his eyes to all my mother's activities, and they. So my brother is his. And I think the reason my brother wasn't trafficked was maybe because he was clearly more interested in my brother, so he just really closed his eyes. But I did try to tell him, and I write that in my book, by the way. I did try to tell him, and he didn't believe me when I was a child, so my mother would. He would. He was away a lot. He was a cameraman. He was traveling a lot. But when he was there, she would literally get out of their bed. And then I would be ready in my bed, and then she would let the car drive down. Just let it, let it, let it. Without turning on the engine, just to be quiet. And then at the. At the bottom of the driveway, she would start the motor and she would drive me to events, and then she would pick me up around dawn. That was how it usually worked. And he was asleep in bed. And, you know, I thought later maybe he thought she was having affairs. She was doing that also, but he never wondered. And she made up stories also about what had happened to me, for example, at one point she started saying that I was a real tomboy. And then I was climbing in trees, which I never did, and I was not a tomboy. But she was saying that because I was covered in blues in bruises. And so that explained it. And then he accepted whatever she said.

[Patrick Bet-David]

When your mom is dropping you off or picking you up, the first time this happened, how was she explaining to you? Like, are you pleading and saying, mom, please don't take me anymore to a place like this. I don't want to go there. And if you said that, what did she tell you?

[Annika Lucas]

Well, I think my mother's a psychopath, that she really had one victim, that was me. So I was an extension that deserved all her wrath. So I have said I wasn't going to go. And she dragged me by my hair one time, but most of the time, because I was the her little helper, I was trying to please her more than anything. And then my mother was extremely sadistic.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But did you ever plead and say, mom, please don't take me today, please don't take me today?

[Annika Lucas]

I said, I. I once said I'm not going.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And what she tell you?

[Annika Lucas]

She dragged me by my hair. She would get very anxious before we left. But of course I was going to go. I mean, you understand children and you have children, you, you children are going to do whatever, you know, I was doing everything to please her. I was trying. I. She was the person I was most attached to. So I was trying to tell myself that she loved me because you have to know that you're loved as a child. And so I was trying to please her as much as possible. So most of the time I wasn't going to do anything against her. But there was another element, is that with my mother, because she never saw me. She just saw. Whatever she saw was an extension, some. Something that just was nothing had nothing to do with me because she didn't see me at all. It was. I was receiving more reflection of things that were true about me by these pedophiles in the network, frankly, that were seeing intelligence or they were seeing beauty. And so at times it was actually more comfortable. It was better to be in the network than to be with my mother, because that constant projection of hers was very difficult to live with.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So this entire time when you're, when she's dropping you off and picking you up, you. You're not controlled like it's, you know, you see it in the movies where the owner has you in a room upstairs and people come in and out and they handle their business and you're away from mom and dad. That's not the case. This is. Mom is dropping you often, coming and picking you up at dawn.

[Annika Lucas]

Yes. So it was different in that way that my mother was not in the network herself, although she wanted to. She looked up to these people. She would have done anything to belong. But because I think her particular way that her mental illness showed, she was almost too enthusiastic, she would not have been able to keep the secret. So she didn't get in. But it was as if she was envious that I was. It was. It was as if she was sending me in her stead that she would have wanted that kind of sexual attention. That's really what she wanted all the time, the sexual attention.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How was her. Her relationship with her mom and dad?

[Annika Lucas]

She was born in 39, before the war. Her mother died when she was five, just after the war. And so her father, whom I did know, he was inappropriate, he did one thing to me that was inappropriate. So her father.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Your.

[Annika Lucas]

Your father. So she grew up in a town in Belgium during the war, in her early years during the war, and then lost her mother at a very early age. And I can only assume that there was sexual abuse happening because that's how she always acted. I have gone through more than 30 years of healing from sexual abuse, all kinds of sexual abuse. And so that journey of healing, which is really, you know, what makes me aware of these things, that's, you know, she acted like someone who was sexually abused and never understood that she was more than that. You know, when you get. As a child, there's something that happens when you're a child and you're innocent and you're the light of God and you are innocent, and your innocence is your true self. That's who you are. That's your light. And when you are sexually abused, it's like you feel that you've lost that innocence and that you can never have it back. There's a. The trauma of sexual abuse is such that you know, you know when trauma means you're going to hope you wish that it was yesterday. If there's a big loss, you just want it to be the day before when this didn't. Hadn't happened yet. You just want to go back. With sexual abuse, it's like they steal your light, they steal your life, they steal your innocence. And you feel that you've lost it because you're a child. And you don't know that you don't deserve this because you assume that you did and then there are children that can never get back to that light. And the network and the way that the network operates is all to keep you in the dark. And it's run by people that are not in touch with themselves on that pure level, on that level of I am light, I am a child of God. And when that's lost, when the abuse gives this message that I am, I have to put out sexually in order to be loved, then you get this message, then that's how you get validated. That's how you want your attention. And my mother acted like that, like someone who had no connection to herself and who was just constantly, constantly trying to get sexual validation from all men.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So your. You and your mother from six years old till. What age was it? Till eleven. Eleven years old. This is happening when you say six hours a week. That's the specific number you gave.

[Annika Lucas]

I gave that specific number, but it's obviously, it's an approximation. It wasn't every week and some. Look, sometimes it wasn't every week, but other times I was gone for the summer of 1972. I was gone two months from home. I wasn't home at all.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Where were you at? You were with the traffickers.

[Annika Lucas]

I was with the traffickers. I was there with you the first month. No, the first month I was in the United States being trafficked in the United States by a powerful billionaire who was basically triaging me and training me in his Holmes.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Who is this?

[Annika Lucas]

I'm not saying who that is yet. I have to be careful what I say. I can't just flop these names out. I have to. I be a person.

[Patrick Bet-David]

We would know.

[Annika Lucas]

Definitely. You would know. You would know the name.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Alive or dead?

[Annika Lucas]

Dead. He was, you know, he was taking me here. I was in the United States. So I was either in his homes, three of his homes I spent time in, or I was in the room in the daytime, sometimes in a bedroom, or I was even at a family's near D.C. for a week, basically parked in a family, nice family that treated me well, probably satanic family and that were very happy to do a favor for this man. And then I was, after that, was taken to Germany and I was there for another month in a facility in Heidelberg for what was my mind control training. And this is 1972, when I was nine years old.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Mind control training at nine years old, yeah. Why did they take you there?

[Annika Lucas]

When I met this billionaire. So in 1972 you had the Bilderberg meeting. That happened in Belgium. So for that event, Paul Van Den Boeynants made sure that he probably did many things around there, but basically, to please this powerful American that was there for the Bilderberg meeting, he staged a ritual.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And so why would they need to.

[Annika Lucas]

Train you, though, the mind control training? He had plans for me and. All right, I can say something. He had me in his homes and everything to get me used to the life of the elite, so that I would know how to eat, so that I would recognize good clothes, so that I would be comfortable in these environments. And alongside that, we went to one of the islands on the northeastern coast of the United States and saw their. And this was a Rothschild who was there.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Rothschild.

[Annika Lucas]

A Rothschild, yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And is this who you're talking about?

[Annika Lucas]

Yes. So I'm saying we were with Evelyn the Rothschild for one day only, and it was clear that this billionaire, who you would think is just as powerful as this Rothschild, was not as powerful in the network and as he was. And he was asking for permission to make the star that he wanted to make of me. Well, he didn't want to make me into a star. He wanted to make me into an elite sex slave where I would become famous in France, and then with that role, I would attract the most powerful men in the world, and I would be able to spy on them for him and so forth.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Is that David Rockefeller?

[Annika Lucas]

I'm not saying. I'm not saying. I can't say this. All right.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Only reason I say that is because I pulled up the list from 2012 attendees and I went through all the guests on the right that says us from the Bilderberg meeting. Okay, Rob, if you go a little bit lower and zoom in and you put us. Yeah, right there. You'll see the names. That shows. I know this is.

[Annika Lucas]

Just give me a minute. Well, I can't lie, but it's scary.

[Patrick Bet-David]

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[Annika Lucas]

Yeah, might as well. Okay. There you go.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You've never talked about this.

[Annika Lucas]

I've never said his name.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You know, you again, you hear these stories and you wonder. You know, there's. There's no way these people are capable of doing something like that. At what point did you know it.

[Annika Lucas]

Was him when he died?

[Patrick Bet-David]

2017.

[Annika Lucas]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So you didn't know till 2017, but.

[Annika Lucas]

I knew a lot, but I didn't know it was him.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So how did you know it was him when he died in 27? Because that was just years ago.

[Annika Lucas]

Immediately I knew. Immediately I just saw his face. And first of all, I saw his face, and then immediately a lot of other memories came back with him.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How much time did you spend with him?

[Annika Lucas]

Well, I spent quite a lot of time with him in the beginning. So from 72 to 73, this was this training. So I spent quite a lot of time with him in the. In the US in that first month in July of 1972, and spent time. Spent time in his estate in Westchester and also in his home in New York City and also in his home in Maine. And on the way to Maine, on his sailboat, we stopped off at Rothschild, who had to give his permission for the Persona that he wanted to make out of me. And then Rothschild invited me into the family, and I gave my. Certainly I had not been treated very well up until then. So suddenly I get a very nice invitation. I feel, you know, even this training, even though there was a lot of sex training also, just, let's not make any mistakes here. This is not like, yeah, I was just being. Suddenly being treated really well. I was being trained sexually as well, but it was the best I'd ever seen in my Life at age 9. And when I was invited, I.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Meaning treatment of elites, like lifestyle, wealth. Is that what you mean by treatment?

[Annika Lucas]

No. In the first three years in the Network by Paul van der Moynantz, I was treated like absolute piece of dirt.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What does that mean?

[Annika Lucas]

I was the lowest of the low. He always treated me like, you know, he wasn't worth the time for him to even, like, sort of like have a. I don't know, a chewing gum on his soul or something, you know, and he just had to pull it off and just. Just resented having to spend any time on me. But he was selling me all over or whatever he was doing. He was using me for blackmail for people that were supposedly new, or he was giving me to depraved aristocrats, but he didn't want to. You know, he. I was treated most of the time, I was treated like I was absolute piece of dirt, like I had no value at all.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Did he himself sexually abuse you or. No, Paul.

[Annika Lucas]

He beat me up, but not sexually. Did not get sexually abused by him. He was extremely sadistic, so he did not sexually abuse me. He abused other children, though. And I don't remember being sexually abused by him, but. But he and a few others that were in charge there just really would treat me like the lowest of the low. So I was used to sort of knowing that it was them, it was their fault. They were. I knew that they treated me that way, but I know that I'm human, so I didn't really fully take it seriously. And I was kind of playing the game to survive, playing this game of whatever they needed me to do. I was doing it. And then in 1972, suddenly, three years later, I got, you know, treated as very special. And this treatment had a lot to do with the excitement that David Rockefeller felt over the fact that he. He loved being behind the scenes creating this slave, this elite sex slave who was going to make him millions. And I was already sold in the first year, in that year, in that year, till I. Till I, you know, I gave my will to the Rothschild. And he asked specifically, you know, he asked, will you be part of the family? And I said yes. And he asked me to say, I will give my will. And a year later, I did not give my will anymore. That's why I'm here. Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Why would Rockefeller do that if he's got billions at the time? That's a very powerful family.

[Annika Lucas]

He was a pot. He was a pedophile, first of all. And these families.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And David, or more David, the Rothschild.

[Annika Lucas]

I don't think was a pedophile, but David, he was more powerful, but he was not a pedophile. David Rockefeller was a pedophile. There's a lot of survivors. I work with survivors. There are a lot of survivors out there of David Rockefeller. But I saw him in a certain light. And I've met one other person now that we named David Rockefeller. We can. I can tell you that the place where I was taken in Germany, in Heidelberg, the doctor that was in charge there, Hans Harmson, I have met another survivor that was also a special project of David Rockefeller and Hans Harmsen, who was the doctor in charge there? She was there, too, as a Special project of him. And she also came across Hans Harmsen.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Harmson.

[Annika Lucas]

Hans Harmsen.

[Patrick Bet-David]

H A R M S E N.

[Annika Lucas]

Yes, there you go. There you go.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And who was he?

[Annika Lucas]

He was, I think that he was in charge of the special project of David Rockefeller for the mind control training. And I know one other survivor who went through similar experiences as myself later on.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Did you ever meet him?

[Annika Lucas]

Meet him? Oh, yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What was he like?

[Annika Lucas]

Horrendous.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Unpack it.

[Annika Lucas]

Okay. The way that you're trained in mind control training, it's based on torture. What I was used to doing as a child sex slave was to please men in some way or other, to get on their wavelength so that they wouldn't harm me, so that I could survive. With him, I never got anywhere. I never got through it at all. Most of these pedophiles you could get through in some way. There's some way in which, you know, I could sense intuitively how what I needed to do to please them. So with him, there was nothing that I could do to get through to him. It was just completely mean and vicious. And one thing that he would do is I was forced to watch certain things to learn about men's behavior, whether it was, you know, one, it was their weakness or their sexual preferences or their. Their sexual desires. Perversions. Perversions. Their sexual perversion. So we're not talking about regular sexual. We're talking about sexual perversions to recognize those. And so I was watching. Was forced to watch the films. And first I would see the man in the behavior, just his face, and then seeing it in the behavior, different things. And then I would need to guess based on a face what this person would do. And if I got it wrong, he. One thing that he did is he would just strangle me until I fainted. And in the fainting, he would. Yeah, he would. Yeah. And in the fainting he liked to strangle. And in the fainting, I would realize after a while that in these near death experiences that my intuition was sharpening. And so it was punishment for not giving the right answer. But it was also part of the training to be able to get more intuitive and sense things without having to use your reason. And one thing he did was he would strangle me. And. But first he would say, what does this mean? And he would point, point at his own face and then he would strangle me. And so his face to me means being strangled or it did. That's how the programmation works. So when I actually came across his photo, I felt like I was dying and it took a long time. And I do a lot of yoga and meditation and I had to really just go into the breathing and really, really just work through that programmation. That seeing his face means you're going to die from strangulation, you're going to asphyxiate.

[Patrick Bet-David]

He wanted you to know that that.

[Annika Lucas]

Is how programmation works in the network, that you know it and your body has a reaction. And also it is a way to get you from a. To whatever they need you to go. So if this prompt means that. And that was in Heidelberg, he. I don't, you know, he wasn't there all the time. Most of the time there were three handlers that were doing this.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So if you go back to that Rob, that says right there, he was a bureaucrat in the Nazi Germany. He was responsible for proven eugenic sterilization performed on the disabled. He supported forced sterilization of the mentally handicapped and helped to carry them out to Protestant intermission institutions for which he was responsible.

[Annika Lucas]

David Rockefeller also was a eugenicist.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So when you're with David Rockefeller, are you in their estate? Are you in their house? Are you around their family?

[Annika Lucas]

And if you are, who is not around their family? No, but I was around. I was in three of his estates, as I said, and I was around his staff.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Did their staff know what was going on with you or.

[Annika Lucas]

No, I was in bed with him and they acted like nothing was happening.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You were in bed with them.

[Annika Lucas]

And the staff knew and was there and they were just acting like that was all normal. I went shopping on Madison Avenue with him. He bought me some dresses and some clothes and everybody, you can imagine, everybody's so happy to see him, so happy to serve him.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You don't think they're going to think it's weird that a young girl is with a very powerful billionaire?

[Annika Lucas]

I don't think today people would think that was weird because there's such a great desire to please those people. But this is 1972. Nobody thought anything. I could have been taken anywhere out in the open. A lot of it was out in the open, and nobody would have thought a single thing. These people were just so happy to serve him. He told his staff that I was his niece from Paris. Who cares.

[Patrick Bet-David]

While they're seeing you in bed with them?

[Annika Lucas]

Well, he didn't say it then, but they did see, but they acted like nothing was happening. I don't know if they were also controlled or if they were the right kind of personality. I don't know, but I Saw a woman and a butler, a woman and a man, only those two. And that was in the house in New York.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How did they treat you?

[Annika Lucas]

Very nice.

[Patrick Bet-David]

They were good to you?

[Annika Lucas]

Very.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How was he to you?

[Annika Lucas]

Well, most of the time he was extremely. He had this excitement. So. So a pedophile gets excited around children. And so there's a way in which they can start to feel alive when they're with children because it's their own little child that maybe is dead inside of them that's starting to come to life when. Because they relate to children in that way, they see they are trying to revive their own deadness, which dead from abuse or whatever it is. You know, they're trying to revive something. So they're seeing children at a certain age, usually the age that they were abused. And he was excited. And he was excited not only of being around me. And of course, a child is also not somebody who's going to point out your flaws. Right. A real partner will point your flaws to your flaws. And he had a slave who was already a child slave who was, you know, thinking the world of him, and that made him feel really good. So he was excited. And he was also excited at the idea of what he was making me into, because this Persona that he was creating, that I was supposed to be a French singer, actress, and he was excited to be this. The secret man owner behind that Persona. And. And I was sold during that year already, when I was still supposedly in training to become that Persona, I was. I was already probably sold. I mean, I was given to a German chancellor at the time, and that was Kurt Kissinger, who.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Who.

[Annika Lucas]

I was driven to Germany. So the Belgians were. The Belgian handlers, would drive me to Germany, and then I would spend time with Kurt Kissinger, you know, who would take me to, like, little hotels. And again, no questions asked. Yeah, him. Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Before he became a chancellor, he served as a Minister. President of 1958, 66, President of Federal Council, 1960. He was a chairman of Christian Democratic Union from 67 to 71. And David introduced you to him. How did you.

[Annika Lucas]

Nobody introduced me. I was just taken there.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You were just taken there?

[Annika Lucas]

Child sex slave is not introduced. You know, it doesn't happen that way. But the Belgian handlers would take me. They would drop me off on the side of the road, and then he would pick me up, and then I would get in a car with him, and then he would drive me, and then we would arrive. And again, I was trained, so I knew how not to draw attention to Myself, but also he learned, he taught me to speak German. He was very enamored and he might have, might have been paying.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So I'm looking at this, you know, when we're looking at some research. Common methods used by traffickers. False promises offering employment, education or romantic relationships. Two, Isolation.

[Annika Lucas]

This is different.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Separating victims from family and friends to increase dependency. Three, threats and violence using physical harm or threats against the victim or their loved ones. Four, Debt bondage, creating a sense of indebtedness that the victim feels obligated to repay. Psychological manipulation employing tactics like gaslighting to control the victim's perception of reality.

[Annika Lucas]

Yes, but you see, when you're talking about the network which I again, you know, you have David Rockefeller, you have the Rothschilds, you have the Belgians who are, you know, connecting to that network. We're talking about a global network of people of a combination of psychopaths and pedophile and you know, far gone pedophiles that are Satanists and they, they sell their soul to, to Satan and they want control. They have the resources. A lot of the children that are born into these families are abused from the beginning and are mind controlled as well. They are also tortured because what they do, other than the sort of like normal kind of trafficking, is that you get in and either you are what I was in the beginning, like your life means nothing and you could be killed anytime. That was the first three years. But then once he took notice of me and which was in a very strange circumstance, but he is David Rockefeller. Once he took notice of me and he was going to then use me for his purposes, then I would have been part of the, what I call the global network where I would have been completely controlled as a star. That's where the mind control comes in. And then, you know, using my natural talents and abilities and blood to create a person that is completely in their control while they have been created the same way, you know, and all these people are crazy. That is, see, this is the. Everything goes into the PR of presenting an image that is really acceptable. And then everything goes into the PR of, you know, it's not as if David Rockefeller didn't have access to the, to the press. So what these people who are part of this murderous network, they use their resources to control their image. And that is of course, that someone like me should never have too much reach. And what we don't understand is that it is one network and, and of course there is. They're, they're, if they're friends, they're connected A lot through blackmail. Because the Satanists, there's what I call sincere Satanists who really sell their soul to Satan. And they have rituals and there are sacrifices being made. And then there are those that just want to belong to the club of power. And you know, and then it depends in the network in Belgium. Well, it depends if someone gets sucked in. You know, you have your integrity and you have your ideals and you start out and then what happens? You know, if you get into that club, you will be asked to make choices. And either it's power and you stay with a club, or it's. It's your integrity means that you cannot do this anymore. You cannot lie in the beginning. It's to just like, be quiet about what you see having to do with sexual abuse, usually. And then as it goes on, it becomes, you know, you. You get involved, you get. You have to. You're participating. And of course, it's not everybody that is going to be manipulable as a pedophile, because not everybody is going to rape a child. But those who don't, they are. They know and they keep quiet about it. So that's how it works.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And how long were you with David Rockefeller? One month. Or did you see him again after that?

[Annika Lucas]

I did see him again after that. I saw him again after the training and I saw him again, especially a year later, in April.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I saw him 73 or 70. 72.

[Annika Lucas]

73. Now, April of 73. I saw him in Italy and there were. That's where I saw the most people that I recognized later. There were actually a lot of singers there. There are a lot of people that were in the entertainment industry. And this was my coming out. I was singing. I had. I performed several songs. So there was some Jacques Braille songs, because he's Belgian song.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Really like, that's what I sang.

[Annika Lucas]

Yeah. And then too.

[Patrick Bet-David]

It's a beautiful, amazing song.

[Annika Lucas]

It's a beautiful song.

[Patrick Bet-David]

My favorite. And by the way, that s. That song was sang by, I think, Julio Igle, Glacius, I think Sting, they converted it in English. The meaning of the song is actually very interesting. The first time he sang that song on tv, he died at a very young age.

[Annika Lucas]

He died rather young. Yeah, but he was alive then and it was a popular song.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Was he there at the event or not?

[Annika Lucas]

No, no, I never saw Jacquel, but I was singing the song and what. I had been trained by a famous French composer singer and he had showed me the choreography. Now, I didn't fully understand what was happening, but this Choreography. I was sexualizing every line of that song. So you have the line, for example, I remember Le Vieux Vulcan. There's a line about the old volcano that nevertheless still spouts fire. And that for that I remember I had to go sit on an old man's lap and had to look down on his genitals because that's the old volcano that spouts fire.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That still spouts fire in front of everybody.

[Annika Lucas]

That was. Yeah, that was the audience. Yeah. And this is an audience of people that were in the sphere of Rockefeller, obviously, but this is like a satanic gathering. I mean, these were people that were in this club and whatever, for whatever reason they wanted to be there, whether it was for fame or whatever.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You know, when you're doing that, are they laughing or are they just like, oh, it's this great performance laughing?

[Annika Lucas]

No, no laughing. Everybody laughs at the sex jokes of the nine year old. Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You're nine years old at the time.

[Annika Lucas]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay. And who's there, some of the names that you're saying? Who's there at this.

[Annika Lucas]

Well, okay, I know you really want to hear names, and I really don't like to focus so much on the names, but Eddie Arnold was an. Was an American perpetrator that was there, and Eddie Arnold was. Yeah, so Eddie Arnold was somebody who really, really, really wanted to belong to the club. And I don't know how people got in there. There's. Some of them are coming in through masonry, some of them are coming in in other ways because they get famous and then they get lured in. But he just really wanted to belong.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Now, when you say belong to the club, meaning just to be there. Power was he. It's power, but not abusing kids. You're not?

[Annika Lucas]

No, he. He abused me. Yeah. I mean, yeah, yeah, he abused. That week. So there was a. An entire week. And I was basically given to a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of men there. Meanwhile, horrible things were happening.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Songs.

[Annika Lucas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Meanwhile, lots of horrible, horrible things were happening. There were rituals happening. It was like the only thing I can. The only thing I can compare it to is maybe like, I think of a Dionysian orgy. Have you ever read the books of Mary Renault? Mary Renault, okay. She has described once, and I don't even remember which book, but she described a Dionysian orgy. And it was like I was back there. It goes on for days and days and.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But you see, if I look online, there's literally nothing online about accusations about Eddie Arnold.

[Annika Lucas]

Can you say you're not going to probably. I know a lot of survivors of David Rockefeller, but I don't think you're going to find any accusation online about David Rockefeller. It's all about COVID up. It was very, very good. All the investment, all the money goes. I mean, not all the money, but it goes a lot to the image you gave.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You gave a couple other names to me earlier. I don't want to say it until you're comfortable. One of the names was a, you know, another famous politician from the West.

[Annika Lucas]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How did you meet him?

[Annika Lucas]

He was also there that week.

[Patrick Bet-David]

He was also there that week?

[Annika Lucas]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And what was the interaction with you.

[Annika Lucas]

Scary?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Was his wife also involved or just him?

[Annika Lucas]

I didn't see his wife or. I don't know, I, I didn't see anybody else but him.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But you vividly remember him and when did you know it was him later on? Because at the time you're nine, ten years old.

[Annika Lucas]

Yeah. Again, you know, this came much, much later. I don't remember exactly when I remember when I realized that it was him.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You don't remember when he came to you later that it was Pierre?

[Annika Lucas]

No.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Justin Trudeau's father, Right? This who you're talking about?

[Annika Lucas]

Yes.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And I mean you have to. You've never mentioned his name before, right? Trudeau. What was that relationship like or the experience like? Was it a one day thing? Was it a repetitive. That happened?

[Annika Lucas]

All right, I'll tell you something. David Rockefeller had me trained as a spy. So I was a sex slave, of course. And I was an elite sex slave now. And I was trained as a spy through the mind control training. And so that week I was sleeping with men. And then I would go report on their weaknesses or their sexual preferences to David Rockefeller.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Why did he need that information? Is that how to blackmail and use it later on in negotiation, for example.

[Annika Lucas]

Or if he knows what they want, then you can give it to them sexually. So about Trudeau. I said that I could never please him as long as I was alive. That's how scary that was.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You could never please him?

[Annika Lucas]

If I were, if I was alive.

[Patrick Bet-David]

With Trudeau, what does that mean?

[Annika Lucas]

It means that he couldn't kill me because at that point I was not a throwaway child. And he, he scared me enough so that I then tell Rockefeller that that's what he wants a child to kill. Then you understand that the next time he can, if he wants to use that, he can use it. He can use that information.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Rockefeller. So how many of these celebrities did, did abuse you during that Specific event that you were at for you to come back and report to David.

[Annika Lucas]

Oh, God, I don't even remember. I was very busy and at that time and, you know, I want to specify that when I was in Belgium, I always had a distance from the perpetrators and I always knew that they were wrong and that I, you know, was a human being and that they, even though they treated me like nothing that I actually, you know, had, wasn't worth being treated that way. I knew that when I was mind control trained, which is based on science, you know, it's horrendous science from, you know, probably related to some of the experiments that were done in the camps. And I know it's extremely. When I went into the mind control training, there was no guessing, there was no experimentation. It was just done very precisely to get the result that they wanted so that I'm a high functioning machine for their purposes. And I did not at that time have the distance to understand that I didn't want that anymore. I thought now at age 9, I believed that I was this Persona and that I was doing this. I didn't. Wouldn't have called it abuse. Does that make sense to you?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, I mean, you become immune to it. It's like a mobster that kills somebody so many times. If you watch an interview with Richard Kuklinski, I think Richard. What's his last name? Rob? I think I'm saying it right, Iceman. And you see him in interviews when he's killing people, it's no longer a.

[Annika Lucas]

Well, that's the network, you know, in the network this happens. And you know, when you go to any gang, you have these little kids that get pulled in and it's either kill or die.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Sure.

[Annika Lucas]

And then so they get pulled in that way. And it's the same in the network, you know, with violence and pedophilia.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But let me, let me stay on this with you here. So you then gave me a name. You said a woman. You didn't give me a name. You said a woman who would be seen as very innocent. Because most of the time when we're thinking about this, you're thinking about man. Was this woman also at the same event?

[Annika Lucas]

Yes.

[Patrick Bet-David]

She would have to be in her 80s and 90s today. Politically related or business?

[Annika Lucas]

No. Celebrity. Celebrity that I told you no one would believe. No one would believe it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What, and this was in 73. That's 51 years ago. 70. Yeah, 51 years ago.

[Annika Lucas]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

That nobody would believe.

[Annika Lucas]

Nobody would believe today? No. And what was such an icon you know, this is it. We all have icons, right? We all have people that we look up to. And every icon that I had personally, people I never saw in the network because I was only there for five years. You have to understand that's a short time. I worked with people that were in much longer, that were born into it, that were in much longer. Every icon that I've had, almost every icon I have had to let go of because I found out from somebody that I'm working with, completely private healing work that we do together. I really would wish that we could talk more about the healing, because I feel like. Oh, yeah. I feel like we're talking a lot about names. And I really. The healing is so important. That is, I think the reason that I can speak is because I've yield so much and. And I understand things that most people don't understand. And I like to speak about those things, like how that really works and everything in the mind, because I was being trained to become like them, and then I chose not to.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, I mean, it's. It's. And. And by the way, I want to speak about that as well. And. And also your book, as we're going through this, just trying to sit here and, you know, you and I were talking, right? Where it's like most people don't want to talk about it. Everybody you've mentioned so far, I had a guy did an interview with, and he started telling me all these weird stories. And I want to believe all the stories he's telling me because some of it is actual word, when you use unbelievable. And the stories would get more and more and more exaggerated. But there was one pattern. Everybody he ever said anything about, they were all dead. So they couldn't defend the story, Right? They couldn't.

[Annika Lucas]

I don't just go and tell stories, first of all. I mean, it's taken me most of my adult life to even be ready to speak. The true case happened in 1996. I was encouraged to speak up then in 1998, when survivors of the same network that's in Belgium started to speak out. The Dutroux case took eight years to go to trial. And then they were left with Mark Dutroux, his wife, and two others. Michel Nihoul was one of the defendants. Michelle Nihoul I saw in the network. He was there then, too. I was not going to speak out. I was not ready. I was afraid. I was afraid to speak out. And also I knew that I wasn't ready. It's not something you want to talk About. First of all, I am a really good writer. I really wish that I could have written stories that would be interesting and well written and it would be appreciated and I would be appreciated as a writer. I don't want to be talking about this stuff. I've accepted it because it feels that the divine has wanted me here and with this and talking about it. And I am. But it's not. I'm not here for my ego. It is. I get attacked a lot. I have to deal with a lot of stuff. I have to deal with a lot of miscomprehension, but also attacks. My book, supposed to come out in France more than a month ago. It's been blocked. This translation of my book, it's been blocked. The publisher has not been in contact with me at all. I know that he received at least one mail that was to discredit me, and I probably received a lot more by now. But anyway, things happen all the time to stop me from speaking out. I'm not just telling stories. I've been so careful to wait until I was ready to say anything at all, because I knew that if I'm going to get attacked and I'm going to go under, or if I'm going to get the love from people, I'm not going to be able to handle it. I'm going to need it. And I can't need power when I'm going to speak about these things, you understand?

[Patrick Bet-David]

I don't think. I don't think there's anything about power here. I believe this happens. I believe this happens all the time. And I believe it was way more back in the days till today. Because back in the days. And by the way, today, it's still happening today. You see movies like Sound of Freedom. You see movies like Liam Neeson. Taken, Taken two, Taken three. Why do movies do so well? And you know, Belgium is known for a lot of things. You know, Europe, there's. Some of these countries are known for a lot of things. But to me, it's more.

[Annika Lucas]

It's a worldwide. It's a global.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Right. It's $150 billion. Your industry.

[Annika Lucas]

No, no, this is a global elite network with specific people in it, and they're not all friends. So there can be infighting happening as well. But it is, you know, and I. When I think of politics, it's like manipulated division. There's so much manipulation and it's all manipulated to keep people fighting each other so that we'll not look at the imposed division that is really between the top and the bottom. And when you start looking at the top, when you really. This is happening now, who is the top? Well, isn't Rockefeller the top isn't Rothschild the top isn't these people? Aren't those people the ones at the top? So I'm taking all the risks speaking about it. I don't want to say anything. I actually don't even like to say the names because the truth is, it's not out of loyalty. It's rather that what is right to say when you know. Yes, saying names eventually is important because I was there. It's my story. I should be able to say who it was.

[Patrick Bet-David]

What do you think about Jane Fonda and Julie Andrews? What do you think about him?

[Annika Lucas]

What do I. I don't. These are. I think of people like that as potentially, potentially just like what I was gonna be. You see?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Got it. Potentially what I was going. What I was going to be.

[Annika Lucas]

Yes. I was supposed to be a celebrity in France, so I was going to be singing and I was going to be. I was trained as the sexy, you know, this sex, Sex, sexual animal. So that's what was being sold. So that's how these powerful men would then fall for me and then I could maybe marry a president. You know, that's possible, whatever it was, but it was really Rockefeller who was behind it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, so when you're spending time with Rockefeller, you said you didn't know was him until he died in 2017.

[Annika Lucas]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

How is that possible? If you're going to these events and these parties and they're mentioning his name, don't they say David Rockefeller?

[Annika Lucas]

The name. I never heard the name. I never. I know him as David.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So they wouldn't say, please help me bring up the, you know, great David Rockefeller.

[Annika Lucas]

If I saw his face, I probably would have seen it. Because the thing is, I would have not done well if I'd remembered him while I was alive. Because he got so deep, you understand. I was a child sex slave. I had not known any love and this was the best I got at that time. And because of that I would have. Maybe there's a lot of parts in me that were very attached to him, that loved him very much. It's part of the reason also why I wouldn't want to necessarily say the name. You know, it feels like disloyal somewhere too, believe it or not.

[Patrick Bet-David]

To who, though?

[Annika Lucas]

To him. To him. Because there's still parts inside of me that are also attached to him. And. And of course I've learned a lot the more I heal you. See, you're talking like somebody who doesn't understand healing very well, because the healing comes from. You know, how is it possible. It's very possible that I had vague memories of an American and some positive connection to that. But then there was also the memory of how I had met him, which was horrific. And I'd grieved for that. And I. You know, I. In the 90s, I was crying over that situation, and I haven't necessarily, you know, healed completely, but at the moment, what it is is that something begins to manifest, and usually through the body, because our trauma is stuck in the body. And then usually there's a period of. Sometimes it's just, boom. When he died, it was immediate, and I immediately got the memories, and there was no question. But in the time that the memories come and, you know, this is. Mind control is about dissociation. You know, it's. You might. You. You get traumatized. Why? Because it dissociates you. And then you don't know. You don't know what your other half is doing. So when we're talking about somebody who has an amazing front, when they're in their front Persona, they don't know what they do in their shadow. That's in the shadow. So the mind control is to create dissociation, to create parts that will go. Alters that will go and do things, specific things. And that, of course, that stays. When you're an adult, you're dissociated, so you don't remember most of it or nothing, and it just comes back little by little. It's a. It's a very long and arduous process, and it requires tremendous courage to begin to open up to the possibility. Because the first thing that comes. When I had the first flashback of this, I was like, no, no, no, no. First of all, I thought, if that's true, I'm going to kill myself. Which was also programmed into me. But I struggled so hard with. Like, this is not true. This is not who I am. I have an idea of myself. Okay, doesn't work very well. You know, this identification as me in this family, and it. Okay, things don't. Aren't really adding up. And at the same time, I never want this to be true. It's impossible. And without the Dutroux case, I had no context either. But I was getting the flashbacks one after the other. The therapist I was with didn't want to know it. She wasn't ready. She didn't want to hear it. She didn't. She dismissed it Some things I didn't even bring to her because I knew she wasn't going to be open to it. So it. So first there was the Dutu case. When I suddenly realized that all my flashbacks there suddenly made sense. And then when things start to make sense, then suddenly all a bunch of other things start to make sense as well. Like, for example, behaviors of mine or what I call cover memories. There's certain things that I know and I've always known them, but. And I may have put them in a certain context, but suddenly if this is true, if this, what I'm pulling out of the shadows here, if that is true, then that also makes sense. And so it becomes a personal investigation into these memories.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Where do you live right now? In the state. Not, not state.

[Annika Lucas]

In New York.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You live in New York. And how long you been in the states?

[Annika Lucas]

Since 1985.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And you don't know who David Rockefeller is till the day he died in 2017 in New York? The Rockefeller Center. The Rockefeller. This.

[Annika Lucas]

I told you I'd never. I never heard the name Rockefeller.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You can't. That's not possible.

[Annika Lucas]

Yes, of course it's possible. I'm a child sex slave. Why would I hear the name Rockefeller? Who says it? Nobody told me. Nobody said it. He didn't say it. He was David to me. Now I heard it. I heard the name Rockefeller as an adult. Of course there's songs about the Rockefellers, but that didn't mean anything. That name didn't ring a bell to me.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, but I mean, he's everywhere. His picture, you would see it. So it's not.

[Annika Lucas]

I didn't think that this was going to be the kind of conversation we were going to have.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Well, I never know what kind of a conversation I'm going to have. I simply go into a conversation, I.

[Annika Lucas]

Feel like I'm combative almost because I feel like.

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, to me, it's not that. To me the main thing is the following. I think this is a very serious issue. I think it's such a serious issue that in America, I'm disappointed with our politicians that they don't spend enough time talking about this, nor does the mainstream media. And we've covered stories like this God knows how many times. 359,000 missing children in 2022, according to the FBI. Never once do you hear these guys get up there and campaign and talk about this kind of stuff. It's just we're talking about all the other stuff.

[Annika Lucas]

Yeah, Dennis Bastard, who was the speaker of the House, who was actually jailed for Pedophilia.

[Patrick Bet-David]

If what you're saying, if what you're saying is true, you're saying your loyalty is to Rockefeller.

[Annika Lucas]

I'm not saying that. Obviously, I'm speaking about it, and I've been speaking about it. My loyalty is obviously not with the abusers. It never was. It was in a very controlled situation. I was being prepared as a child to become part of them. I said no at age 10. Now, that is something that some children do, but most don't. Most don't have the strength to do that. So, no, my loyalty is essentially not with Rockefeller and it's not with any of those people. That's what I'm talking about.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You said that. You said, I feel like a certain.

[Annika Lucas]

Level of yes, because a part of me is.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I'm repeating what you were saying. I'm not saying what I said.

[Annika Lucas]

If people talk about your parents a certain way, maybe at some point, no matter what the reality is, maybe at some point you're going to feel some emotional strings.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, but you're very comfortable not talking positively about your mom, but you're not very comfortable talking negative.

[Annika Lucas]

My mother never gave me as much as he did, and that just happens to be the truth. He gave me reflections that I never received.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Did you ever reconnected with your mom or. No.

[Annika Lucas]

I forgave her before she died.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Did you ever reconnect with her?

[Annika Lucas]

I forgave her before she died. I called her to forgive her before she died.

[Patrick Bet-David]

When you called her, how much longer after she died did she die?

[Annika Lucas]

A year after.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Did you guys ever spend time together again, or. No.

[Annika Lucas]

No. I did offer to come to see her when she was dying.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So how old were you the last time you saw your mom?

[Annika Lucas]

I don't remember, but it's a long time ago.

[Patrick Bet-David]

12 years old, 14 years old? 18 years old?

[Annika Lucas]

No, no, no, no. I was an adult. I was in touch with her as an adult. And as these memories were coming back and I was working on these things, little by little, it became clear that she was still the same person. That. Not. You know, there's this idea of what my mother was, which is what I needed to live with as a child, to. To believe, you know, to. To survive. And then there's the reality. And when the reality became clear, she was acting just exactly the same as she would have. She never changed. And really, there was no reflection there that I would have needed to emotionally grow. It was all false. It was all a projection. It had nothing to do with who I am. I was like. She needed Me to be bland. Either good and bland and ugly or evil and powerful. And the David Rockefeller saw. Even Paul Van de Boeynants saw things in me that my mother never did. He recognized things that were actually intricately mine. So I, for an emotional. For my emotional growth, I needed.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You ever seen the movie Red Sparrow?

[Annika Lucas]

No, I don't need to see those movies because they're very. There's a lot of movies, and they take, like, little aspects of what happens in the network. Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Oh, I fully believe the network exists. I am not from the school of thought that this doesn't exist. This is a real thing. I have a lot of friends in this space who are former CIA guys, Delta guys, military guys that, you know, it's as real as it gets. It is happening. The only reason I asked this question from you is one of the recent stories that was, you know, all over the news in America is over Jeffrey Epstein and Jelaine Maxwell.

[Annika Lucas]

Right.

[Patrick Bet-David]

When you hear the types of stories where billionaires give him $151 million of consulting fee. Who the hell gives who 151 million? Oh, he will help me on my taxes. That much? Maybe a million, maybe a half a million. I don't know anybody that gets paid $158 million of consulting fee Leon Black gives to Jeffrey Epstein. It's kind of weird, right, when people ask, well, that's the amount of money.

[Annika Lucas]

Well, that's very. I take that for granted. What people don't know is that I work with survivors again. And several survivors, younger survivors that I know were trained by him. And so.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Who. Jeffrey.

[Annika Lucas]

Jeffrey Epstein?

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yep.

[Annika Lucas]

He was a program.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You're talking, David. That's why I'm asking.

[Annika Lucas]

Excuse me. Yeah. No, Jeffrey Epstein. And they were. They were trained by him. Some from when they were babies. So just the story that's out there now is that, you know, the teens and everything, and then we. We talk about. Yeah. The abuse of teens, but really we're. He was training children of all ages.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Jeffrey.

[Annika Lucas]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Did you ever meet him or Jelaine? No, never met him. Even in New York?

[Annika Lucas]

No, I was out in 1974. I was out.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Right.

[Annika Lucas]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And what did you do after you got out? What jobs did you do when you came to New York? What were you doing in the 80s, 85.

[Annika Lucas]

Well, I want to talk a little bit about how I got out, because normally you don't get out.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Okay, tell us, how did you get out?

[Annika Lucas]

Look, first, the week that I was telling you in Italy. It wasn't Italy. Nearby Lake Como. So where I was sleeping with all these men and where these horrific things were happening, men and women.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I think you said to me there.

[Annika Lucas]

Were men and women. Absolutely. But I was sleeping, sleeping with the men. I was not trained to be with women. I was only trained to as a sex slave for men. And these horrible things were happening all week and the end of the week, and this is April 30th is an important day for the Satanists. I'm not exactly sure why, but by the end of the week I was going to have my big. I had already had the singing, you know, I'd already had the performance for everybody there. And. And then I was going to have my, the ritual. That was how I was going to be part of them. Another. I will perhaps, you know, you have to say I will. So you have to give your will to the network, to Satan. And so this was going to be my big entry. And I knew better. I, I didn't, I didn't want to do. I knew, I didn't wanna, I didn't want to pay that price. I didn't want to pay the price that it would take to be part of it. And so I did everything that I needed to do because I had been trained in a way that I knew not to say no. But after that, the next time I saw David Rockefeller, I rebelled. And then I was immediately, immediately tortured. I was thrown in a cage in a dungeon and tortured for several days by him. But no, no, he. He never touched. He was always kept. He would. For them. He would, he watched and he was there for some of it. He was verbally telling me that I was absolutely worthless. But Hans Harmsen came too.

[Patrick Bet-David]

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[Annika Lucas]

How about some fresh out of the.

[Patrick Bet-David]

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[Annika Lucas]

And excuse me. No. And basically I was retrained for several days to make sure, you know, that I would feel the lowest of the low. And then I was absolutely worthless. And anyway, he's telling you this. I was. He told me that for sure, but also I was also tortured. And so he wasn't always there. He was there a few times, but he wasn't. And at the end of that couple of days, I was basically thrown back into the Belgian network where I was used another year. And then my book actually speaks about the year after. I've already been rejected from what I call the inner circle afterwards. And I ended up. There's this gangster that took an interest in me and a year later, a year, you know, that became an extremely violent, vicious relationship. I'm. I'm 10, he's 20. And a year later he rescued me and I had a near death experience. So you could say that I, that I didn't survive. I had an extremely big near death experience. I wasn't supposed to survive, but I had to come back and it was a very beautiful experience. Also, like my book is called Quest for Love. I was in these pedophilic relationships and everything, looking for love in the midst of hell. But what happened in that near death experience was. And it was. I was always. Spirit was often present with me and there were like. When I talk about these things, yes, I was tortured for days, you know, and that this is true. So when you look at that from the outside, it is just gruesome. And there's nothing else there. But spiritually I felt often that there was help. Sometimes. No, sometimes yes, but there was help. There was support there, there was sometimes there was an insight that would come. Often I felt this benign presence. And when I had the near death experience, it was a very glorious experience. And I felt finally this incredible love.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Do you believe in God?

[Annika Lucas]

Of course. I mean, that's everything. There is nothing with that.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Who's got you? Are you a Christian? Are you a. Are you a How would you define that?

[Annika Lucas]

The, the one my teacher who showed up in the near death experience was Paramahansa Yogananda. Now Paramahansa Yogananda started a autobiography of a yogi. Yeah, if you want to show. There you go, that orange book. There you go. That's Paramahansa Yogananda. So Paramahansa Yogananda wrote, you know, one of the gurus of the path is Christ. And so it is not separate from Christianity. The, the teachings are the original Christianity combined with the original yoga, which is, has nothing to do with the physical yoga but the meditation. So you have, you know, the prayer which is like speaking to God and then the meditation which I could call listening to God. And there's these specific meditation techniques that bring your energy back into your spine and brain that are meant to help you to what happened, you know, in the near death experience is you transcend the physical, you leave the body, but you, because you are not the body, you are consciousness, pure consciousness. And then in that experience I experienced the expansion of the heart where I just felt that divine love. And then. No. And then had these insights also then to help me know what to strive for when I was healing. And that is to go back to return to the love of Christ. And that is why my message has so much to do with ending the division between people, between us. Not judging other people, respecting everybody getting along, but to look, because I feel that this division is created from this network. Very simply.

[Patrick Bet-David]

The network should be held accountable, of.

[Annika Lucas]

Course, and the people in it. And that the division is caused from that place of these people that want to maintain the control specifically so that we won't look at them and that we won't focus.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Do you think we still exit what.

[Annika Lucas]

Has happened to make it stop existing? Nothing.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Right. What do you think you can do to help it because you're somebody talking about it? Is that, is that kind of how you process that?

[Annika Lucas]

Everything I do is to help it. I heal, I work with other people that have been through it. So the fact that I have had my plus 30 plus years of healing behind me, I can really, you know, when someone has been through something like that, it is very common that you cannot believe it. So when someone who's been through it and has been through the healing, who knows exactly what it is and can bring context to what is coming up, because it makes no sense. These things when they come up, that is what I do. And I write and I, I'm a right. I think of myself as a writer. So I try to reach people. Not about. It is not about the sensation. It is not about the names. Of course, yes, they have to be held accountable eventually. All of them. Absolutely. I do trust in spiritual justice, though not necessarily justice on earth. Most of these people died in their bed. They were never held accountable in life. But I, to me, my role is. First, is speaking up this. The revelation of this truth, which is a dark truth that I think we should know about. And the second part of my mission, I think, has to do with the healing. I developed a psychological healing modality, and it's for everyone. It is to look at power dynamics in the way that we all, you know, project power. Like, I. If I look up to you, you know, then I'm going to come from a place of below. And that projection, it is used as an entry into our own unresolved stuff. Like, if I put you up, then you are an authority figure to me. And that means that I'm coming from a child place and I'm putting you in the position of a parent. And beneath that upward projection, putting someone on a pedestal is fear. And so we go in that way to look at healing or whatever it is, unmet emotional needs or. And vice versa, when we look down on someone, when we judge someone, to first look at ourselves, like, what is this in me? Why do I need to feel powerful in that moment? Why do I need to think less of that person? So it's a. It's not judging in terms of just saying what it is. Like, I don't mean, you know, a pedophile is a pedophile. That's not what I mean. Judging. You know, that there's judgment there. That is just what it is, is discriminating or discerning. But I'm talking about an emotional. An emotional charge, which is exactly what I feel the network is using to create that division, to keep judging each other and to keep thinking that it's other people like us.

[Patrick Bet-David]

To me, I understand that, but, you know, I just put something. I tweeted something out earlier today because of what happened with Lake and Riley. And we were watching a video of Lake and Riley's family, and I don't know if you're following the story of Lake and Riley.

[Annika Lucas]

No.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Young, beautiful, of a human being, beautiful spirit is going for a run at night while a Venezuelan gangster is looking for her. And she comes, not looking for her, just looking for a girl. And she sees her running. He sees her running, and he catches her wanting to rape her, and he starts hitting her. With a rock over the head. And she's recording this while she's calling a cop. She's trying to escape. And her family, her stepfather read a letter she wrote to her future husband, which is the most incredible story. When you read this, it's. It's tough to watch it without getting emotional. I'm getting emotional now for me, when I hear stories like this. You know, we're going through this right now in America. You're in New York, so New York's a mess right now. I tweeted this two hours before you and I went live. I said, is this too extreme of an idea? Any illegal immigrant who commits a crime in America should face five times the punishment of someone who is here legally, especially a US citizen, and an automatic death penalty. Found guilty of rape, murder, you know, drug, child trafficking. I'm not. I have zero tolerance for this when it comes down to somebody taking advantage of a kid or any of it.

[Annika Lucas]

We're both immigrants though, right? From Iran and I from Belgium.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I know, yeah.

[Annika Lucas]

So we're both immigrants. So of course, the immigrant story is always. Most immigrants don't want to come here, or if they do, I mean, I love the United States. You know, I have had opportunities here that I studied here that I would have never been able to do that in, in Europe. So I love America. I love the spirit of America. I think that this is the place where things can change and this can change here. On the other hand, we have to be always so mindful. I would be, you know, there's always two sides to the same story. Because what on the liberal side is being co opted is the empathy, is the willingness to be open minded towards others. I feel that this is being co opted just as the toughness on the right, you know, is also being co. Opted. You know, I know on the right, I've heard a lot of people being, you know, the save the children. You know, save the children. A lot of feeling and a lot of sympathy for the children. But I, as an adult, don't experience necessarily that same empathy. You see, I'm the. I'm the grown up child from that experience. And I think you do.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And the reason why not always? Well, I don't, I think. And the reason why I say that, you know, is there's a reason why you have tens of millions of views online because people empathize with you. And your book has got 223 reviews, five star. Why is it five star? Because there's a community that, you know, not necessarily understands the pain Most people haven't gone through this but sympathizes with somebody like you seen an innocent child. When I look at your book, I see your face. I see my daughter. I got an 8 year old girl and a 3 year old girl. I'm not okay with that. There's a part of me that is a naturally. My entire life have been very protective since we lived in Germany for two years and my mother and my sister were there. I was a 10, 11, 12 year old. I was ready to do anything if somebody did anything to my, to my mom and my sister when my parents went through a divorce. Now I understand that.

[Annika Lucas]

Was your family connected to the Shah in Iran?

[Patrick Bet-David]

No.

[Annika Lucas]

That's not why you left?

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, no, we were not my mother's side, but I'm supportive of what the Shah was doing. I think when the regime fell. Iran's been a shit show since 1979. Iran was a beautiful place prior to that. Right now it's not the people. What the politicians and some of the other people and clergy did messed up that place. No, but for me, I think the way you overcome this is one by using your voice, calling out accountability and moving on.

[Annika Lucas]

And for liberals, I've done a lot of that today.

[Patrick Bet-David]

When you're saying liberals, to me, it's a very weird thing. What happened with liberals. I think liberals lost themselves. They're a little bit confused. Feminists started off with a. I'm a feminist. Well, I believe you. I can hear one just listening to you. Feminists started off as wanting to be for women rights. Women rights, women rights, great.

[Annika Lucas]

But everything gets co opted by those that want to brainwash.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Conservatives are not. Conservatives are not sitting there saying let's have men compete against women, young girls. I mean that's like the ultimate.

[Annika Lucas]

See, but that is how everybody gets co opted. That is a thought, an idea gets co opted and then it gets pushed. And you know, what does that even mean? What, what gets Help me and used.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Tell me.

[Annika Lucas]

Not as a feminist as me. I'll tell you that from the mind control perspective.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Right.

[Annika Lucas]

So I was trained to get into the mind of men. And what do you do to get into somebody? You use their fear. You find what it is that scares them. So you use fear, then you got them and then you insert an idea into their heads. So what when I speak about the division is that every issue, what you hear about it is very specific and it creates more division because most people are not on that end of the spectrum or on that end of the spectrum as it's being presented to us. Most people are somewhere in the middle. And yes, I think there's a lot of confusion because of that mind control. And when I say co opted is for example, abortion was co opted for the in in the feminist movement abort the issue of abortion was co opted. Now Hans Harmsen, that German doctor, he was the head of Pro Familia. So he was the head of the Planned Parenthood of Germany. He was friends with Margaret Sanger. And so there's something about abortion where that has been become the thing, the biggest issue that is not every woman would know that being a mother is, you know, why we are, you know, being a woman is being a mother and is there's biological facets of that that make you more empathic in general and more able to open your heart because we're mothers. And that is, you know, that has to do with the biological, with a biological fact. So to take abortion where you know, first there's sexualization of everything that was imposed. I was going to be part of that agenda of sexualizing everything to go towards pedophilia eventually to you know, because I was going to be a girl singing sexy songs and then I was going to be a woman singing like a little girl. And so this, that is on purpose. So I was trained that way. And of course there's a thought behind it that people will think it's okay that a little girl sings like, you know, make sexual jokes and that an adult woman sings like a little girl and, and everything that is being sexualized. The way that porn has become so incredibly accessible that most children today discover, you know, their discover sex through porn. None of that is I believe on purpose that would be very much fit into that agenda that I was going to be a part of when I was a child by these people who really want to control everything. And so when you take abortion that is a natural side effect of sexualizing everybody. So when you sexualize every everybody and you, you and you make sex like, like having a drink. Basically that was the idea. Instead of, you know, a marital commitment, it became this like having a drink. And you know, and this is what it is today. It's considered that.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Who did that though?

[Annika Lucas]

Well, that's what I think is the people that were in this network that there was an agenda behind where we're going that has to do with this. Like the abortion would be a natural result of if sexualizing everything and that then the girl has to pay the most and that abortion then would become a good option which it never is so you never hear about how hard it is for the woman. You never hear about how, for example, there is no consent form. Like there's no consent form signed. You don't know what happens to the fetus. You know, when you sign, when you go in to have an. I am neither. I am neither. I refuse to take sides in all of this because I do not. I have had an abortion. I was a sex slave. I was promiscuous. I got pregnant. It would have ruined my life and it would not have been an option to live out the pregnancy and to give up the baby for adoption. It was not on the table. So it is such a difficult choice because you know, there is life inside of you.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Are you glad you're alive?

[Annika Lucas]

But abortion is such a complexion.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I'm glad you're alive.

[Annika Lucas]

You know, a lot of survivors of what I've been through would not really say yes to that.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I agree.

[Annika Lucas]

And today, by the grace of God, I am here and I am glad to be alive. I feel that right now I have freedom that I never would have hoped to have and I feel purpose to my life.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, you know, it's a very. And I agree that this is a very.

[Annika Lucas]

You know, and that's what I mean by co opted. These issues arise. It's the same people that create the problem and that create the solution. That's what I mean with co opting and that is what I mean with the division that has to be so extreme. What we see, it's not as if social media is not controlled. So there too we get constantly, constantly brainwashed. And that's what I say. We have to be very mindful of and careful that we don't start judging people.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, but you listen, I understand you're saying, not judging people. That's what we have, justice. That's what we have, law.

[Annika Lucas]

What kind of justice do you mean? Because they were in the network also the people from. No, that's it. The people in the justice system were the, the head of For Sale.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And that's why I said they need to be called out when they're alive, not when they're dead. That's why I ask you who's the lady's name? You're like, I don't want to do it because she's alive.

[Annika Lucas]

That's, that's, that's not why I told you. The reason is because nobody would believe me and I'm not ready and it's not fair of you to ask me.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But at this point I don't at this point, I'm not. I don't. I'm not interested. I don't even want you to say it. Even if you say it, I'll cut it out. Just so you know, for you to know, I'm not interested. I'm not trying to close you in telling me, don't do it on my show, do it on somebody else's show. If you give me the name right now, cut it out.

[Annika Lucas]

It's a matter of timing. Everything I do is calculated.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Hang on a second. Here's what I want to say to you. If. If you. If you sit there and think about what is going on. There's nothing like unfair. What's the word? Unfair punishment. So you hear these stories of, you know, guys that went to jail for 20 years for selling a dime bag.

[Annika Lucas]

I know, I lived in the prisons.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Why did I go to jail for a dime bag? Right. Or people that went to jail that didn't kill anybody, somebody else blamed them and, hey, he's going to go in, right? These are devastating. You ruined someone's life, their youth. You stole their 20s and their 30s.

[Annika Lucas]

That's right.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And they're going to get out in their mid-40s. Right, but you need law and order. So the big guy cannot bully the little guy. You need that, unfortunately, because we have certain lobbyists and because we have certain politicians that are for sale, predominantly on the left, that are for sale.

[Annika Lucas]

Well, no, don't say that. My perpetrators were from both sides.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, no, but absolutely.

[Annika Lucas]

No, no, no. You cannot say you don't.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I said politicians. It's cheaper to buy the people on the left than the ones on the right.

[Annika Lucas]

You don't know presidents.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Presidents who become presidents.

[Annika Lucas]

You don't know that either.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Presidents who become presidents who funded their own campaign are tougher to buy than those who were funded 100% by donors like the Clintons, like the Obamas, like the Carters, like others.

[Annika Lucas]

I'm saying that you don't know that.

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, it's very simple, because it's just called math.

[Annika Lucas]

I have a different perspective than my perspective.

[Patrick Bet-David]

There's a reason why you have a different perspective.

[Annika Lucas]

Having been part of.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Well, you can say that having been.

[Annika Lucas]

In it as a child.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I understand that, but that doesn't make your perspective a hundred percent accurate.

[Annika Lucas]

I'm saying you don't know that also.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You don't know that because you're also a little bit too in it. Because as a feminist. You said you're a feminist. It's easy.

[Annika Lucas]

What does that mean to you?

[Patrick Bet-David]

What does it mean to you? Tell me what, you tell me what it means to you.

[Annika Lucas]

Well, I have been through a lot of things that I know that would have never happened to me if I was not a woman, not a girl or a woman.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So, so that means a man will never be able to understand what you're saying. And another woman.

[Annika Lucas]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Oh ho, no, not at all. That just means that I am absolutely for full equality. That doesn't even mean necessarily legally. It just means that I as a woman need to be able to speak freely and with everything that that means as a woman. That's what it means to me. It doesn't necessarily mean what you are making of it right when.

[Patrick Bet-David]

And I don't know what that meant what you just said, but you know, like for me.

[Annika Lucas]

Well, because as maybe, maybe you don't understand then as a man, but as a woman, there are certain things that I've had to go through. Like for example, harassment. It was extremely common when I was a young adult. Sure to be harassed. I, I was harassed everywhere. In, when I was living in Paris, when I was living in New York. It was just happening all the time.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I believe you.

[Annika Lucas]

Yeah, I believe, for example, that's one of those things.

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, but we're talking two different things. I believe that. I believe the sexualization of women. I fully believe that. Okay, not, I'm not sitting there saying that. But at the same time the same people that wanted women rights are the same people that are okay with men choosing to compete in women's sports. That's very weird.

[Annika Lucas]

Well, of course. And that's, that's not what I'm talking about at all. That has nothing to do with.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Unfortunately that's what a lot of liberals definitely fend nowadays. And that's why they lost the election as catastrophically as they did in America. Losing seven battlegrounds. It's embarrassing. But, but I want to do this.

[Annika Lucas]

Do you have then, do you have then also that. Is that everybody or is that.

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, I don't agree. That's everybody. No, no, I don't agree. That's every. But by the way, I think John F. Kennedy, what he wanted to do with America, I think there was a lot of, A lot of what he wanted to do was noble and I trusted their family more because they self funded them running for office. You couldn't necessarily buy them anybody on the left or the right that runs for office.

[Annika Lucas]

All my icons have been, you know, knocked off their pedestal just from speaking to people that have been through this.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Those are two different things. I totally get it. What's the saying, Rob, when they say when you meet your hero, what's the word? Don't meet your hero because you will be quite often disappointed or some phrase like that, because you're going to see they don't walk on water as much as you thought they did. But, no, look, I think it is a conversation that needs to be had. I do know it's uncomfortable, and I do know I have a reputation of asking questions that comes to my mind and sometimes makes the meeting a little bit more uncomfortable. And forgive me for being me. I've been like this for 46 years. I don't know any other way.

[Annika Lucas]

I saw an interview that you did, and I thought it was much more peaceful.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, which one was that?

[Annika Lucas]

Mia.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Mia.

[Annika Lucas]

Mia.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Oh. Because the conversation was a. You know, it was a. You know, that was more about her. Interesting story that she had on what happened with her, but there was a.

[Annika Lucas]

Little bit of tension.

[Patrick Bet-David]

There was a little bit of tension with her. I don't know if you watched the whole thing. Did you watch the whole thing or not?

[Annika Lucas]

I did, yeah. There was a little bit of tension.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Her interpretation of the Bible, and not just that. Her. The father of her child and, you know, some of the things we talk. Whether she was uncomfortable not to talk about.

[Annika Lucas]

Just like me.

[Patrick Bet-David]

No. At beginning, she was open to it, and then later on she got uncomfortable with it, so. And. And just like you, by the way, to be fair, so the audience doesn't think I'm cornering you. You told Tony that you wanted to name names. I would. I.

[Annika Lucas]

No, I didn't say that at all. He came to ask me if I wanted. No, no, no. Let's be very clear.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Let's bring him in here then, because I'm not releasing this interview.

[Annika Lucas]

Yes, he came to ask me if I was willing to name some names.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So then Tony's going to be held accountable.

[Annika Lucas]

Yeah.

[Patrick Bet-David]

So let's hold Tony accountable. Tony, if you can. Come here, buddy. Tony. Come on, Tony. So when you told me you proposed for her to be a guest on the podcast, you said. She said she wanted to name names that she's never named before the holiday season officially starts. When you get that first card in the mail, Shutterfly makes it easy to add more meaning to the every day with hundreds of holidays card designs that can be personalized in seconds with your favorite photos from this year. Select your greeting, customize the color, and even add little extras like personalized foil to make A holiday card that really shines. Enjoy 40% off with code [e-mail] and send something meaningful this year. See site for more details. This episode is brought to you by Amazon. The holidays are here and you know what that means. It's time to get your friends and family the gifts they deserve. Take the stress out of shopping with Amazon's great deals and low prices on a huge range of items from toys to tech and much more. Whoever you're gifting for Amazon has great prices on everything you need this holiday season.

[Annika Lucas]

Shop Black Friday week deals now.

[Patrick Bet-David]

We're under the assumption that we were going to discuss when we first spoke early on, over a month ago. I have brought this up to you.

[Annika Lucas]

I don't remember. I don't remember. But I don't remember saying that I wanted to name names. I would never say that because that's not really what I normally would do. And you brought it up today. I thought you meant today. You went and brought it up early on. I said, are you willing to come on? But I must not have answered you. I definitely did not tell you. I'm, I'm, I'm going to name names that I've never named before.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Well, here's, here's the point. The reason for it is like Tony is never misled me. So when Tony says something like, okay, cool, that sounds good. And I don't have a problem with that. But for me, it was. I've known your story.

[Annika Lucas]

You're saying I want to come on naming names. That's not exactly what I would have. Would you say that I, that I said I wanted to come on naming names? That's not really how I would say it at all. I was asked, I was considering it. Maybe this came up or not, but.

[Patrick Bet-David]

This came up earlier. Early on.

[Annika Lucas]

Early on. Two months ago.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah. We spoke some time back. Yeah.

[Annika Lucas]

Are you willing to speak? So, well, you asked me right before.

[Patrick Bet-David]

We came on, but no but, but, but. Only reason I want to qualify this because that's questioning the integrity of the interviewer, which is me. I'm not going to sit here and.

[Annika Lucas]

I'm not doing that.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But hang on. I'm not going to sit here and be cornered as if I'm cornering you.

[Annika Lucas]

Okay. That's what it felt like.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Then. Then you're going to walk away saying, this guy was just cor. I'm not cornering you. I'm being told, hey, there's a lot of things. And she's at a point right now with everything that's Going on with Diddy Epstein, all this stuff. She. She feels compelled to want to talk and maybe give some names. That's a great.

[Annika Lucas]

Came to me before. Before. Right before coming in here and said, would you be willing to name some names, people that are alive? And I went through the list, and I, you know, told him, I'm not comfortable naming David Rockefeller. I didn't say, well, he's not alive.

[Patrick Bet-David]

He's dead. He died.

[Annika Lucas]

Yes, he is dead. The person who's alive, I'm not comfortable.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, I totally get it. And that's. That's a different conversation. Let's separate those two.

[Annika Lucas]

Okay?

[Patrick Bet-David]

The. Those two. Let's qualify. One is you express the interest to want to come here for that reason to maybe talk about some names.

[Annika Lucas]

No, it's not for that reason at all. I was first. I was considering. I. I did have an intuition that this is correct. This is definitely the biggest podcast I've ever been on. And this is. You have a very large reach. I was a little concerned just because of your political views. Frankly, I was a little concerned to come on, because I do.

[Patrick Bet-David]

We didn't talk politics.

[Annika Lucas]

No.

[Patrick Bet-David]

You brought up feminism. I didn't. I didn't bring up Trump. I didn't ask you about Trump.

[Annika Lucas]

No. I don't think it's. I don't think it's a political.

[Patrick Bet-David]

No, but what I'm trying to say to you is this is not. I'm not having a political conversation with you. I'm. I'm having a conversation from a father with four kids who hear stories like this. And we support a lot of charities behind closed doors that we don't publicly endorse because we don't want people to. You know, there are certain things that we will support and nobody knows about because, you know, we are. I'm involved in this in many directly and many indirectly. But this is a very important issue in my life. And so when these stories come out and I hear names of people that are still out there that are not being held accountable, it upsets me a little bit, especially when there's somebody that can do something about it. I can't. I'm not in it. You are. And I'm all about giving the limelight for somebody to share some of those things with others so people can protect themselves from perpetrators. Doing it again repeatedly, to younger children today, which is not fair. Somebody stole your youth, and I'm not okay with that. And if we can do that, to save it from happening to the other 359,000 that FBI has reported in 2022 children's missing. How are those parents handling things? Imagine the mother and the father not having their kids next to them when they put them to bed, when they put them to sleep, when they hug him, when they kiss him. My three year old daughter this morning was crying for no reason, okay? And her and her sister got into it and I went downstairs to check on her. She gave me a hug for 45 seconds. Let me tell you, priceless. Give me all the money in the world will not replace that feeling. I got skin to skin when I kiss her neck and kiss her cheek and she's telling me, daddy, I want to make sure every father and mother who is missing those children, I want more attention to it so someone can do something about it. Whether they're former military, politicians, wealthy people that are willing to give money to it. I want to bring attention to it. This is not an easy topic. This is very uncomfortable. This is why I said at the beginning it takes courage to talk about it. I give you that respect. So I know it's not easy. I know it's not easy to go through something like this and it's not.

[Annika Lucas]

Easy to speak about it. And it is also not even not easy to sort through what seem to be political views. You see, I believe that politics on the whole are there to cause division at this point. So. And I notice how the division has sharpened in the last years. And so that is why.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Who's done that? Think about who's done that. Well, if you, you're pretty smart, okay, you've been around. Who do you think has done that? Who has the ultimate power?

[Annika Lucas]

Well, I would say that the people that I was used by, they wanted, they wanted to control not just their slaves, but they wanted to control who? Everybody.

[Patrick Bet-David]

But how did they, how were they able to silence or get their message out there? What, what tool did they use in the 70s or the 80s or the 90s?

[Annika Lucas]

In the 70s, pedophilia was, for example, sold quite a bit. There was a lot that was very, you know, like the Blue Lagoon, for example. That's a very, that's a very inappropriate film. And there's a lot out there. In France there was a lot. David Hamilton from He did Billetous. Now the girls that were, that were filmed by him were being. Are coming out saying that he raped them. You see, the 70s, they were really pushing pedophilia. And it feels like at the moment there's a new push again towards pedophilia.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, but, but where I was going with this is they did it by controlling the media.

[Annika Lucas]

Yeah, so the media. But there's also social media. Well, social media tech companies are also controlled.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I know they are, but who are they controlled by? Who? The only guy that owns it that's conservative possibly is a guy named Elon who used to be a Democrat. He left when they realized they're insane. They've lost their minds, but everybody else is on the other side. So. Yeah, I remember. You know, when you're explaining all this, I've shown these movies. There was a weird song back in the days by this guy named Benny Mardones. Mardones. Which. I don't know if you remember this song. She's just 16 years old. Remember that? I mean, this guy's. There's a singing song about.

[Annika Lucas]

It's like you can find compilations of songs now where they're all singing about pedophilia.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I read the lyrics. Here's the lyrics. It says, she's just 16 years old. Leave her alone, they said. Separated by fools who don't know what love is yet But I want you to know if I could fly I'd pick you up I'd take you into the night and show you way Love like you've never seen. This is a grown man talking about a 16 year old. And he was asked in an interview, Otis Redding sitting on the dock of the. Which. Which song?

[Annika Lucas]

No, the song. She's Weary. She's weary. And young girls, they do get weary wearing that same old chubby dress. And then she'll. And then the, the lyrics go, young girl, you won't regret it. He says, you won't regret it.

[Patrick Bet-David]

Yeah, well, look, we're living.

[Annika Lucas]

Try a little tenderness. Yeah, you know, she's waiting, just anticipating.

[Patrick Bet-David]

At least this guy didn't give the age this other guy's given the age.

[Annika Lucas]

She's young girls. Young girls. It's young girls. She's just 17. Do you know what I mean? As the Beatles.

[Patrick Bet-David]

In some, some countries it was 16. Back in the days, like it was. It was even in America right now, I think the legal age in America.

[Annika Lucas]

We'Re still talking about grown men seeing about a 17 year old. It's always the same story.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I'm with you. I, I understand what you're saying, but as weird as it sounds, look at this. Even in US, some states, the age of consent is 17 in New York state, 15 in Arkansas. The national average in US is 16. So some of this stuff is kind of a. We, we. Maybe we need to update some of these laws that we have in place. But anyways, Annika, folks, we're going to put the link to her book Quest for Love below for you to be able to buy and support. It's down there. We'll put it in the description and in the chat. Please do support her cause and order her book. And again, I appreciate you for coming down, sitting down and having this conversation. I am sure, as usual, as much as it may felt a little bit uncomfortable at times, I think the audience won today because we brought more attention to this discussion. However they see it, that's up to them. But I think we did more good than bad by having this conversation. I appreciate you for coming out and I like the fact that you never talked about Trump because I don't like to talk about Trump.

[Annika Lucas]

Okay.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I don't like politics. And if you were going to go there, I was going to stop it. No, I was not going to be happy about it.

[Annika Lucas]

I was not going to talk about.

[Patrick Bet-David]

I appreciate you. Thank you so much. This was great. Thanks, everybody. Take care. Bye. Bye. You're going to think I'm crazy when I tell you this, but the last 13 and a half years, I've been working on my first fiction book to write, ever fiction book to write. And while I finished this book a year ago, I got the strangest phone call about one of the characters in a book where the guy wanted to meet with me and he read the book and afterwards I was like, wait a minute, am I the villain in the book? This is a story about a character named Asher who is half Armenian, half Assyrian, whose father was involved in the Iranian revolution, linked to Savak working with the Shah, that they escape and he gets recruited to a secret society. When you go to the secret society, it's been around for a couple thousand years. They've developed some of the craziest leaders of all time. And they test you. There's unique tests that they have at this society where they test to see your emotional, mental toughness. One of the tests that they have is very rigorous. It's purely mental. Of course, there's a physical one, but one is mental and emotional. If you're Armenian, if you're Syrian, if you're Persian, this is a book you're going to be reading and saying, holy moly. This is the kind of stuff you talk about in here. Yes. If you're somebody that's fascinated by history, this is a book for you characters. There's a technology that this society, secret society, builds, where you go into a vault. I won't spoil it for you. When you go down, they have a technology where you get to sit down and watch and have a three, four hour conversation with Tupac. You can set up a debate between Karl Marx and Ayn Rand. Karl Marx is in the book. Who wrote Communist Manifesto? Ayn Rand, who wrote Atlas Shrugged, is in the book. Marilyn Monroe explains the concept of seduction and sex in the book. When you read the book, it's about development of the next leaders in the world and how they do it and how they've been doing it for many years. And it's also about how to prevent the end of civilization and how this organization goes about doing it. So I've never written a parenting book before, but if I ever wrote a parenting book, this is the closest thing to it because it's all mindset, a lot of crazy stories. Again, 13 and a half years. Trust me, I told myself I will not publish this book until I sell my insurance company and I'm fully disconnected from it where it's no longer My responsibility 100%. When you read this, if you're a crate, if you're a creative person, if you like fiction books, if you enjoyed Atlas Shrugged or if you enjoy Divergent, if you like books like that, I think you can enjoy reading this book. It's the creative side. Business books is very easy. Here's how you do it. Here's how this, how it works. This is very creative. If you haven't placed your order yet, now you can order it on Simon and Schuster, Amazon. I'm going to put the link up below somewhere here, maybe even in my profile. Go order the book and read it. I sincerely, I've never written a book where I can't wait to read your reviews to see what you think about this book. So I'm going on this wild journey and we have some plans with this book here. If you support the things that I work on, I would appreciate you going and reading the book. Order the book on Amazon and then post a review.