Trump's Liberation Day Tariffs HEATED Debate w/ Sam Seder | PBD Podcast | Ep. 570

Summary

Summary of "Trump's Liberation Day Tariffs HEATED Debate w/ Sam Seder | PBD Podcast | Ep. 570"

Podcast Information:

• Title: PBD Podcast
• Host/Author: PBD Podcast
• Description: The PBD Podcast discusses current events, trending topics, and politics as they relate to life and business. Stay tuned for new episodes and guest appearances.
• Episode: Trump's Liberation Day Tariffs HEATED Debate w/ Sam Seder | PBD Podcast | Ep. 570
• Release Date: April 3, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 570 of the PBD Podcast, host Pat engages in a vigorous debate with guest Sam Seder, a prominent political commentator known for his progressive views and advocacy for taxing the wealthy. The discussion centers around the impending tariffs announced by former President Donald Trump, the state of the Democratic and Republican parties, taxation policies, immigration, and various other pressing political issues. The episode is marked by intense exchanges and a clash of ideologies, providing listeners with a deep dive into the current political landscape.

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1. State of the Democratic Party

Discussion Overview: Pat initiates the conversation by addressing Sam's advocacy for taxing the wealthy, questioning Sam's stance as someone who also belongs to the affluent class. The dialogue quickly shifts to the declining approval ratings of the Democratic Party, citing recent polls and suggesting a lack of effective leadership and policy direction.

Notable Quotes:

• Sam Seder [06:14]: “I think... it’s time for new leadership in the Democratic Party.”
• Rob [06:14]: “The plurality of Democratic voters disapprove of Democrats in Congress at 49% and just 40% approve.”

Key Points:

• Leadership Crisis: Sam argues that longstanding leaders like Chuck Schumer have failed to galvanize the party, calling for fresh leadership to better oppose the Republican agenda.
• Policy Frustration: Democratic voters are reportedly frustrated with perceived inaction and compromises made by their representatives, leading to historically low approval ratings.
• Call for Action: Sam emphasizes the need for the Democratic Party to adopt a more combative stance against Republicans, moving away from compromise towards assertive policy-making.

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2. Taxation and Wealth Redistribution

Discussion Overview: A significant portion of the debate revolves around Sam’s proposal to reinstate high marginal tax rates for the wealthy, reminiscent of the 1950s and 1960s. Pat challenges the practicality and popularity of such measures, leading to a back-and-forth on the effectiveness of wealth redistribution.

Notable Quotes:

• Sam Seder [18:53]: “I am for universal health care. Single payer health care... decommodifying access to the Internet.”
• Pat [21:06]: “Why do you think 80% of Americans want that? Americans want that?”

Key Points:

• Historical Context: Sam references past tax regimes where the top marginal rate was as high as 90% for income exceeding $4 million (adjusted for inflation), arguing it flattened wealth disparities.
• Public Opinion: Pat questions whether such high taxes on the wealthy are supported by the majority of Americans, suggesting that the general populace might oppose increased taxation due to distrust in government efficiency.
• Economic Impact: The debate touches on the potential economic consequences of high tax rates, including reduced incentives for entrepreneurship and investment.

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3. Tariffs and Trade Deficits

Discussion Overview: The conversation shifts to President Trump’s announcement of Liberation Day tariffs aimed at addressing the U.S. trade deficits. Sam critiques the implementation and methodology of these tariffs, while Pat defends their necessity for revitalizing American industry.

Notable Quotes:

• Sam Seder [91:14]: “These tariffs are not tariffs. They are just made up what the tariffs were.”
• Pat [90:07]: “If trillions of dollars are going to be invested into our economy to create jobs, you don't support that.”

Key Points:

• Methodological Concerns: Sam highlights that the tariff rates announced do not align with conventional economic approaches, suggesting flawed calculations based on trade deficits divided by imports.
• Economic Uncertainty: Pat argues that while tariffs may introduce short-term uncertainty and potential inflation, they are crucial for attracting massive investments from companies aiming to bring manufacturing back to the U.S.
• Market Reaction: Discussions include how markets might react negatively to the uncertainty introduced by sweeping tariffs, potentially impacting consumer prices and economic stability.

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4. Immigration Policies

Discussion Overview: Immigration emerges as another contentious topic, with Pat and Sam debating the effects of recent policies on illegal immigration, labor markets, and national security. The conversation delves into the legal statuses of immigrants, Social Security implications, and the impact on American workers.

Notable Quotes:

• Sam Seder [27:50]: “The expansion from that program was started under the Trump administration... all of those people payment their Social Security.”
• Pat [73:27]: “The 10 million people that come here illegally...? They’re paying into Social Security and not necessarily getting the services back.”

Key Points:

• Legal vs. Illegal Immigration: Sam clarifies that many immigrants receiving Social Security numbers are there legally and highlights misconceptions about their status.
• Economic Impact: Pat argues that illegal immigrants often take jobs away from Americans, particularly in low-wage sectors, benefiting large corporations seeking cheaper labor.
• Policy Critique: The debate criticizes Democratic policies for allegedly encouraging illegal immigration by allowing more non-citizens to work and pay taxes without receiving equivalent services, thus perpetuating wealth disparities.

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5. Human Interest Story: Texas High School Football Tragedy

Discussion Overview: The episode covers a tragic incident involving a Texas high school football star, Austin Metcalf, who was stabbed and died in his twin brother’s arms during a track meet. The discussion reflects on the societal and familial factors contributing to such violence and the importance of forgiveness and restorative justice.

Notable Quotes:

• Adam [128:16]: “What type of emotional pain, what type of anger, what type of hurt was this person already dealing with that this was how he enacted his revenge?”
• Pat [138:09]: “This is a very, very difficult story... and the father’s response was admirable.”

Key Points:

• Emotional Trauma: Adam emphasizes the need to understand the underlying emotional and psychological factors that led to the violence, suggesting a failure in societal support systems.
• Forgiveness and Healing: The father’s approach to forgiving the perpetrator is highlighted as a model for restorative justice, aiming to help affected families move forward without harboring eternal bitterness.
• Societal Reflection: The story serves as a reflection on the broader issues of violence, mental health, and the need for comprehensive support structures within communities.

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Conclusion

Episode 570 of the PBD Podcast presents a robust and impassioned debate between Pat and Sam Seder, encapsulating the current tensions within American politics. The discussion traverses critical issues such as the effectiveness of the Democratic Party's strategies, the implications of high taxation on wealth redistribution, the complexities of implementing tariffs to address trade deficits, and the multifaceted challenges of immigration policy. Additionally, the human interest story underscores the profound personal and societal impacts of violence and the path toward healing and forgiveness.

The episode concludes without a clear resolution, reflecting the ongoing nature of these debates in shaping the future of American policy and society. Listeners are left to ponder the viability of Sam’s progressive proposals against Pat’s defense of nationalist and capitalist principles, emphasizing the deep ideological divides that continue to influence the political discourse.

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Notable Takeaways:

• Leadership and Strategy: The Democratic Party faces significant challenges in leadership and policy direction, necessitating fresh perspectives to regain public trust.
• Taxation Debates: High marginal tax rates remain a polarizing topic, with debates centered around economic incentives versus wealth equality.
• Tariff Implementation: The effectiveness and precision of tariff policies are under scrutiny, with concerns about economic uncertainty and inflation.
• Immigration Impact: The balance between legal immigration benefits and the perceived threat to American jobs is a contentious issue requiring nuanced policy solutions.
• Restorative Justice: Personal tragedies emphasize the importance of forgiveness and community support in addressing violence and loss.

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the multifaceted discussions and heated exchanges that defined Episode 570 of the PBD Podcast, offering listeners a thorough understanding of the key themes and arguments presented.

Transcript

[Pat]

Did you ever think you were made again? Adam, what's your point? The future looks bright. My handshake is better than anything I ever saw. It's right here. You are a one of one. Okay, so episode 570. We have a very rich man here today, Sam Cedar. He's a, he's a guy that loves rich people. He just, just, you know, anybody that's a billionaire. His favorite people, absolute big fan and he's going to tell us why today. We've had him on before. I always respect anybody that is willing to come on that may have opposing ideas to sit down, have a conversation. Sam, it's great to have you back on here again.

[Sam Cedar]

It's a pleasure to be here. I just want to say that some of my best friends are rich people.

[Pat]

I believe you. I believe that you have a lot of rich friends. Trust me, I believe. Now the question is you want them to get taxed 90%. But we'll have that conversation as well, gang. Well, a lot of stories.

[Sam Cedar]

Top marginal rate of, of 90 of 90%.

[Pat]

Right. But you're rich too, Sam. Let's not.

[Sam Cedar]

Oh no, I am rich as well.

[Pat]

You're rich too. Okay, we got a lot of stories to talk about. Sam is obviously a die hard fan of Elon Musk. He wants to give some more praise to him today. We'll talk a little bit about him. We'll talk about terrorists with Liberation Day. One of the stories CNBC host hits Trump with insult he'll hate amid tanking stock market. We'll talk about that story. Frustration grows with Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick ahead of Trump's tariff announcement. Loose cannon with half baked ideas. Now the story about private companies added 155,000 jobs in March. More than expected. ADP says Hooters bankruptcy devastating for a lot of people. $376 million debt and restructuring. Charlie Javis must wear an ankle monitor despite her budding Pilates career Judge rules Gen Z is facing a career apocalypse. Stephen A. Smith drops mountain of receipts on MSNBC writer who called his MAGA mouthpiece. We'll play that clip. ESPN's Monica McNutt claims Caitlin Clark is popular because she's a white girl from middle America. This TikTok deal is getting very interesting. We don't know whether Amazon's going to buy it, whether Andreessen Horowitz going to buy it, whether they're both going to be involved. There's a lot of interesting people saying they're going to buy it. So eventually one person will who that is we don't know. There's a couple stories here with vanguard. Sam Guard gets real. Sam Cedar gets real about Anna Kasparian and Cenk Uygur spills the tea on the young Turks. I think that may be an older story, but we'll cover it anyway since it's been a couple years. Elon Musk to the 5 on Tesla attacks. We know who is behind it and we are coming for them. Obama was working against Kamala Harris behind the scenes. Didn't think she could win. New book reveals Nevada school ban Ban schools ban trans athletes from girl sports in major reversal. Reversal from state. We'll cover that part and then we got a couple other stories here. Democrats approval rating remains low. Point unhinged. Jasmine Crockett roasts herself by admitting she's a DEI hire. Which story is that? Sky News. Trump administration freezes funding to Maine for letting trans athletes in girl sports. Massive layoffs hitting health agencies that track disease and regular food. Female fencer takes a knee, forfeits in protests of transgender opponents. Texas high school football star. This is a devastating story. Austin Metcalf stabbed in the heart, left to die in twins brother army at track meet and the dad react. This is going to be a tough one to watch, folks, when we go through it. Yeah, we're talking about it right before the podcast. Elon Musk's 24 Hours, a Wisconsin Supreme Court loss, Tesla's sales plunge and reports he may soon leave role in Trump's White House. Yahoo News will cover that story. And a national police and final report downplay covenant shooters, transgender identity, hatred of Christianity. That's a Daily Wire story and we got a few other things that we'll cover as well before we get into the podcast, guys, we want a million people to support the future looks bright gear. We are getting very close to it. We got something unique that came in. Just so you guys know, I only, and I mean I only wear the valuetainment wallet. This is all I have. I think Adam's the same as well. But we got these new wallets, okay, that are RFID protected wallets to have with different future looks bright signs on it. Rob, if you can go through, we got the red one, we got the black one. If you can go to the ne, all the colors so they can see it. Beige, blue, gray, brown, you name it, we have it here. Anybody that places an order with these RFID wallets, you're going to get a leather keychain added to it with the valuetainment logo design on it. Again, you sport the brand. You follow what we do. If you, if you, if you believe like we do, that the future looks bright, go sport the gear. These will not last a long time. Just like the leather backpack didn't on Tuesday. That thing went in no time. Go place your order. Carry your wallet with this RFID wallet protector. Future looks bright. Okay. All right, so let's get right into it. Sam, question for you from the last time you were here. I think it was two years ago, but it was, give or take, two years ago. @ the time, it was probably a terrible season for Trump. I think we can say Trump wasn't having a lot of victories. Trump was at a very low. Republicans were not convinced that he could go. Republicans were thinking it's probably going to be Desantis or it's going to be somebody else. There was a bit of a split in the Republican Party on the maga. Look, I don't know. Even when he opened up his announcement that he's running at Mar a Lago, there was not a lot of people there. People saying, I don't even know this person was in there. That person wasn't there. This person wasn't there. And then you get these CNN polls. Rob, if you can pull up the CNN video showing where the Democratic Party is at today, play this clip. And I want to ask you, Sam, what happened to the Democratic Party? Go for it.

[Rob]

Voters, views of the Democrats in Congress. Among all voters, disapprove 68%. And look at the approved number, just 21%, even lower than the Democratic Party at large. This is the lowest on record for Democrats according to Quinnipiac University polling. Polling. You think these numbers are bad? Let's go to this side of the screen. We'll look how Democratic voters feel.

[Pat]

Get this.

[Rob]

The plurality of Democratic voters disapprove of Democrats in Congress at 49% and just 40% approve.

[Vinnie]

Horrible, horrible, horrible.

[Rob]

Oh, my goodness gracious. You just can't get worse than these numbers.

[Adam]

And this is the number right here.

[Vinnie]

Really driving all of this.

[Rob]

Democrats have turned.

[Vinnie]

If Democratic voters have turned on Democrats.

[Pat]

In Congress and the Democratic Party, that's.

[Vinnie]

What puts the numbers at historic lows.

[Pat]

What is it they want to be seeing these voters?

[Rob]

What is going on? I'll tell you what's going on. They don't like what's coming out of some of those Senate Democrats like Chuck Schumer, because take a look at the direction of the party. Democratic voters on Democrats in Congress doing too little to oppose Donald Trump. Look at this. 77% should stay principled, even if it means nothing gets done in Washington, D.C. 65%. And this 65% is such a difference from where we were in 2017 at this point, when just 33% of Democrats say this should stay principled, compared to 59% who said they want to compromise. Democrats do not want compromise at this point. They want a fighter. They want to go into the ring like Muhammad Ali did against Sonny Liston. They want to take down the Republicans. They do not want this compromise anymore. They want to be more like Republicans, get up to that stage and fight. And right now they feel like their leaders in Congress are, simply put, not doing so. And that is why their approval rating for congressional Democrats is at all time, even among Democrats.

[Pat]

Rob, if you want to pause it, Sam, what happened, what happened to the Democratic Party?

[Sam Cedar]

Well, I should start by saying I always thought that Trump would be the nominee. And I two years ago I was wondering why Ron DeSantis was lighting his career on fire by trying to run against Donald Trump. To be honest with you, I think, you know, Trump in the Republican Party, I think they're one in the same. And so that doesn't surprise me. Those numbers are some of the most encouraging numbers I've seen in the 20 some odd years I've been doing this because I want to see it communicated to Democratic leadership that we want you to fight. And I've been riding Chuck Schumer for, you know, 10 years trying to get him. I mean, Harry Reid was a great, I think, as far as they go, leader of the Senate for Democrats. But it is, I think it's time for new leadership in the Democratic Party. We need a, and this is not even ideological from my perspective. I think there are Democrats that I agree with and Democrats that I disagree with on an ideological standpoint. But I think a different generation of Democrats understand that the Republican Party is in transit. There is no negotiating with them. I think the biggest thing that Joe Biden, the biggest mistake that Joe Biden made was following the American Rescue act, which was a massive boon to the American public. We cut child poverty by 45% in a year. I just want to repeat that. We cut child poverty by 45% in a year because of that, that act. When Biden first got in, and you know what Republicans were talking about after we, we passed bills that cut child poverty in a year, that extended unemployment benefits, that provided food stamps, that provided health insurance, Republicans were talking about two books that the Dr. Seuss publisher decided not to publish. And so in my mind The Republican Party there is completely bankrupt of ideas. And Joe Biden, instead of pushing through Build Back Better over that summer, he opened the door for the Republicans to give a proposal that went nowhere for three months. Then he opened the door for Christian Sinema and Rob Portman to come in and give a proposal. And that ultimately, I think, is when Democratic voters started getting impatient with Biden. Because we were thinking $5 trillion, $4 trillion, Joe Manchin was saying $6 trillion build back better bill. And we never got anything like that. It ended up getting split into the ira, which was a good bill, but I think insufficient. And then infrastructure stuff, also important, but insufficient. And so I think what you're seeing is frustration from Democratic voters who are saying, a, you're not fighting, B, you're allowing the Republicans too much opportunity, and C, we need more government intervention.

[Pat]

Do you think it's more that they're not fighting or do you think that their policies are simply bad policies and they're not landing?

[Sam Cedar]

No, I think it's that they're. They're not fighting. What are their policies?

[Pat]

So. So tell me what policies are like right now, the Democratic Party. Who is the face of the Democratic Party and what are the top three things you guys stand for?

[Sam Cedar]

Well, I don't think there is a face of the Democratic Party at the moment. I mean, Chuck Schumer is nominally the, you know, the highest elected Democratic official that's out there.

[D]

That's not a good sign for you guys.

[Sam Cedar]

100%. I agree. I call for him to resign every day. I don't know that there is a single. I don't think the Democratic Party has coalesced around of agenda. This is. We're having a. There's a fight within the Democratic Party.

[Pat]

Like, do you have someone you like that you, you would want to see or do you want to see the capitalistic competitive philosophy of somebody just comes out and let's see who it is. Because if there is even you right now.

[Sam Cedar]

Capitalistic.

[Pat]

I don't understand what I mean by capitalistic. Like competitive. Let's just see who comes out.

[Sam Cedar]

Competition.

[Pat]

Competition predates capitalism. Yeah. So that's good. The competition is.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah. No, I mean, I think, yeah, obviously there's going to be a competition.

[Pat]

Anyone you like?

[Sam Cedar]

Well, I think there are policies that I like that, that are expressed by like Sanders and AOC on their tour, their anti oligarchy tour. I mean, obviously I think there are other, you know, policies that are floating around that, that I don't know that they're necessarily embodied in politicians. Yet people are looking. There's a lot of stuff that Tim Walls did in. In Minnesota that I think is great.

[Vinnie]

Putting the tampons in the bathroom, which was. That was my favorite put in the. In the men's bathroom. That was. That was probably one of the best ones putting that, because that. That's. That's type of policy that I think that we need in the country.

[Adam]

Tell me. Tell me what Waltz did that you liked. Substantially, statistically, that wall stood, I think, think.

[Sam Cedar]

I think things like lunches for. For kids, expanding educational opportunities.

[Adam]

Wait a minute. There weren't lunches for kids. There wasn't federal money from the free lunches for kids.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah.

[Adam]

Okay.

[D]

What else?

[Adam]

No, let's. Let's go. I want. I really want to hear it, because a lot of this was federal money that just. That floated. I really want to know what's going on.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, other states reject. I mean, expansion of Medicare and Medicaid. I should say Medicaid. In Minnesota, he provided for expansion to who?

[Adam]

Specifically.

[Sam Cedar]

Through the ACA, to people making 400% of poverty. He's got.

[Adam]

Wait a minute. Medicaid is designed. If I walk in with a broken leg to a public hospital. Right. That Medicaid is there to take care of me. If I'm destitute and unable to it, that's a good thing. And that's exactly the things that California did, and it was already there. What was expanded about that in Minnesota?

[Sam Cedar]

You're expanding the pool of people who can access Medicaid on a state by state basis. There's still, I don't know, half a dozen states, Republican states, that don't allow that expansion of Medicaid.

[Adam]

Okay, so you just.

[Sam Cedar]

Are you not aware of that?

[Adam]

Yeah, I'm absolutely aware of it. But what I want to ask you is when you expand the Medicaid, it is a fact that basically you close the public hospitals. And so what you're talking about the things he did in.

[Sam Cedar]

That's not true.

[Adam]

Oh, yeah. Ask Gavin Newsom. Ask him what happened to King Drew in Los Angeles. This is well documented.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm stunned. You know, you can do a choice if you want to close a public. I mean, Andrew Cuomo closed a lot of public hospitals in New York State. That's not a function of Medicaid payments.

[Adam]

You want to go take a look at California and King Drew and what happened? Gavin Newsom himself talked about it.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm not a fan of Gavin Newsom, but you're asking me about Waltz and.

[Pat]

No, we didn't Ask about Waltz you were talking about. You said you like some of the.

[Sam Cedar]

Things he asked me what was in what I like about Tim Waltz.

[Pat]

No, you said you like.

[Adam]

I wanted one of the specifics of the things that he did.

[Pat]

Right. Okay, so. But continue with the following, Sam, if you don't mind. Cuz this is what I'm trying to find out.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah.

[Pat]

So one, the Republican Party, like you said. I knew two years ago that Trump would be a Desantis. All this other stuff.

[Sam Cedar]

Right.

[Pat]

We were on the same page. I thought it was going to be him. But a lot of Republicans were a little bit still staying safe and hesitant of whether they were going to go all in or not the first time you and I spoke. But today when I said who do you like, what policies? You said, I like what AOC is doing. You said senators, anti oligarchy, all that stuff.

[Sam Cedar]

I have a different, I think, way of looking at politics maybe than you do. It's not for me like if a candidate emerges who embraces a wider set of my preferred policies, that's the one I'll support. I don't really get too involved in the individual, frankly. I mean, Joe Biden was not my favorite candidate by a long shot in 2020. The fact that there were coalitions built out of Warren and Sanders supporters that ended up bringing us a much better set of labor policies that. Than we've seen in my lifetime. From my perspective with the National Labor Relations Board with just the appointments of people like Abruzzo as the general counsel there, the extension of union's ability to unionize and helping working people in that way, and then the antitrust regime that was largely a function of like the war nights putting in their people to undermine big concentration of money and power. Those are a big positive. So you know, do I like Joe Biden? No. But I also know that if there are the right coalitions formed that, that have, you know, influence within the context of an administration, that's good from my perspective.

[Pat]

Got it. But to me, like running a business or politics. Right. Or it shifts when people all of a sudden look at you and they say, I don't like these ideas anymore. So in the, in the Democratic Party, you have a lot of different people that would have different policies. Hey, I think we should do this and I think we should do that. Great. Obviously didn't land November 5, 2024. Whether it was Kamala Harris, whether it was the policies, whether it's seven states you lose, battleground states you lose. Whether it's the majority, it Just, it was not. It was a bad loss. It was a humiliating loss. One could say it was Kamala. One could say it was Obama. One could say it was Biden stepping. One could say it's Schumer. One could say it's Pelosi. Let's set that part aside. To me, the most basic part is ideas. If someone has ideas that's producing results that people like, they want to continue that. Right. And we watched, like, if I ask a Democrat, even right now, I ask you for 15 minutes, I still don't know if Democrats know what they're for.

[Sam Cedar]

Like, well, I'm not, you know, I'm not speaking for the Democratic Party. I can tell you what I'm for.

[Pat]

Tell me what you're for.

[Sam Cedar]

Oh, I am for universal health care. Single payer health care.

[Pat]

Yep.

[Sam Cedar]

I am for increased ability to unionize. I am for decommodifying parts of the housing sector. I am for decommodifying power. I am for decommodifying access to the Internet. I mean, those are my big ones right there.

[Pat]

I think your party is for that.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, who in the Democratic Party is for that? I don't know that there's anybody who in our party who embraces all of those. I mean, that is a major political figure. I mean, I think I'm to the left of the Democratic Party, but I think there are elements of what I want that are represented by people in the Democratic Party. I mean, I think having a very jaundiced eye to the overwhelming concentration of wealth and wealth disparity, I think is a fundamental problem that we have in this country. I think too much of what happens in this country is a function of the concentration of wealth. I mean, that gets back to why I want to return back to the tax regime we had in the 50s and the 60s where the top marginal rate was 90% for every dollar above in what today's money would be about $4 million. So, and just to explain this, because I've seen so many people on the right not understand marginal tax rates that it's almost disturbing. The first million dollars that you earn is taxed at 32% or whatever the prevailing rate is. The second $2 million million dollars you earn, 32%, the third 32%, because I think that's the highest. Maybe it's 37% is the highest. Once you get over 4 million, every extra dollar after that is not. Is taxed at a 90% rate.

[Pat]

That's what you want.

[Sam Cedar]

That is what we had in this country for several decades. In the post war.

[Pat]

That's good, though, because we talked.

[Sam Cedar]

Because.

[Pat]

Why do you think that's good?

[Sam Cedar]

I'll tell you. Because it flattens wealth disparity.

[Pat]

Okay.

[Sam Cedar]

And that is when you have the greatest expansion of the economy, Right? When the wealth of the country is shared by as many people as possible. Obviously, it's not everybody gets the same.

[Pat]

Amount, but do you think that's a popular idea? Do you think that, do you think 80% of Americans want that? Americans want that?

[Sam Cedar]

I think if I was to show Americans.

[Pat]

If I was to show you showing for 20 years.

[Sam Cedar]

No, no, no. Put up a, put up a graph of, of income disparity, right? The. You put up a graph of income disparity. Americans are shocked when they realize how much money is held by the top 1% in this country. Really, the top.01% relative to the rest. I mean, like, literally a handful of families have more money and more wealth in this country than 50% of the population.

[Pat]

There's so many questions to that. For me, the question is the following. Here's where I'm trying to go with.

[Sam Cedar]

You show that to 80% of Americans and there's no questions like, what the.

[Pat]

Fuck, you know what other. You know what else you can show? You can't, because you're a guest. But you know what you can c. A n, you can, you can, you're a guest. So if you, somebody could go and say, okay, why don't you pull up who pays the most taxes in America? The top 1% pays 50% of taxes in America. Okay? So you can give that argument. So to me, if we go back and forth, but this is the part I want to do with this specific argument, this specific idea where I want to go with a guy like you, okay, is I think sometimes like the Democratic Party, you go to a message and you know how Trump test things out? Yeah, Greenland. We go. It's Greenland. Greenland. Greenland. Greenland. Greenland, yeah, Greenland. It's going to be one way or another. We're not going to go to war. But one. Yeah, you know, third term. You know, I'm not talking about third term, but a lot of people are talking about third term. Third term. Third term. Yeah. You know, you know, Canada should just be a 51st state. Governor Trudeau, Governor Trudeau. Governor Trudeau. Governor Trudeau. Trump will throw these things out there, okay? And then the market reacts to it. And the market will say, what the, what, what is he talking about? And then I believe this is. Because this is how I do it as a business Owner you kind of. I'll be in front of. I'll never forget one time I brought nine of my guys and I dropped an ID on them. You should have seen the reaction on everybody. You know what the reaction was? They looked at me like I was high. They looked at me like I am on shrooms. They're like, what the. Pat, respectfully, these are terrible ideas. So you know what happens to business owners? They're so used to coming up with bad ideas. What do they do? They move on with bad ideas. So to me, Trump gets up there and says, what do you think about this? And then he looks, he says, okay, what's the guy that I respect? Okay, this guy's pretty reasonable. What did he say? What did she say? Okay, let's move on to the Democratic side. Somebody like you.

[Terrence Howard]

But.

[Sam Cedar]

But I would.

[Pat]

But let me just finish the point. I'll come to you. Trust me. I want to hear from you. To me, it's. I feel like the Democrats like you. Okay? You have a voice. People watch you. You're an influencer in your community, and you actually have the ability to kind of go and help your community out, help your party out. There are certain policies that you keep pitching that is no longer popular. That's been exposed so many times. Because what we learned, like, the biggest part, why some of the conservatives like the Doge concept and some of the Democrats that like the Doge concept is it's government wasted expenditure. Obama talked about it. Clinton's talked about it. People on the left, they've talked about it for many, many years. And the average person watches this and says, okay, so after 4 million, you want to put the tax rate at 90%? Yes, I do. Okay, so all you're saying is that the government knows how to use my money better than free enterprise. I don't believe that. Well, so that's where the argument stops.

[Sam Cedar]

That's not the. That's not the premise of why I want to do that. Taxation. I mean, the government will redistribute the money.

[Pat]

That's no longer a popular idea in America. That's the part where you see the young Turks kind of growing and evolving and seeing some of the ideas that kind of is not popular.

[Sam Cedar]

I. Listen. The fact of the matter is government always redistributes money. It always redistributes money. Every government at every moment is redistributing money. The question is, which direction is that money flowing? That's it. There is no doubt governments redistribute money at every Moment. The question is which?

[Pat]

How are they at it?

[Sam Cedar]

What?

[Pat]

How successful have they been at it? How good are they at it? How much waste have they done with redistributing money?

[Sam Cedar]

Oh, there's no, listen, there's no doubt in my mind. Like, look, we have a massive, massive military budget. And if you want to look for waste and fraud in government, that is where you go. That's where all the money is. Everybody knows it. There's an enormous amount of waste in fraud. They can't even get through an audit. How many audits has it been? Half a dozen? Social Security.

[Pat]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

And they can't pass a single.

[Pat]

I agree.

[Sam Cedar]

Social Security is audited all the time. Do you know how much money. Let's talk about this for a second. I watched the video of you guys on the plane down of when Elon Musk was in Wisconsin blowing up his whole brand, essentially. And he was on stage with a guy named Garcias. Do you guys remember this video?

[Pat]

Of course.

[Vinnie]

Yeah.

[Pat]

Okay.

[Sam Cedar]

It was like two days ago.

[Pat]

Yes. The Social Security numbers spiking in the last four years.

[Sam Cedar]

The Social Security 2.2 million new non.

[Pat]

Citizen Social Security numbers. Yes.

[Sam Cedar]

And the amount of misinformation from every single person, all of you, was astonishing to me.

[Vinnie]

What was it? What was a misinformation? I mean.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, I almost feel like we should go through.

[Pat]

The whole video is coming from a socialist.

[Sam Cedar]

No, no.

[Pat]

The level of credibility of socialist progress system, that has never worked. But I want to hear that. I want to hear it. I want to hear. We want to hear this. Go for it.

[Sam Cedar]

First. First off.

[Pat]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

You seem to not understand that these were not undocumented immigrants who were getting these Social Security numbers. They are non citizens. Now, when you came to this country, you were an immigrant. Your parents came legally. Every single one of those people who got those Social Security numbers are here legally. They're not citizens. Just like you weren't when you first came to this country.

[Pat]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

You get a green card. Your parents get a green card. They go through a process, all of those people, and understand they got their. They got their Social Security card.

[Pat]

I really want to see your point.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, the point is you referred to them as undocumented and illegal.

[Pat]

You did. I said non citizen.

[Sam Cedar]

Excuse me.

[Pat]

Don't say everyone here. I say non citizen. Correct.

[Sam Cedar]

I can't remember which one of you got it wrong.

[Pat]

I think you did.

[Vinnie]

Just be honest, you're thinking. But I.

[Sam Cedar]

We can play the video and go through it, but I'm still trying to.

[Vinnie]

Get to the Point.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, the point is they're not on. They're not illegal, they're not undocumented. They're all legal.

[Pat]

Right.

[Sam Cedar]

The expansion from that program, the EBE program, which is enumeration beyond entry, was started under the Trump administration. The numbers have gone up because. Yes, under Biden, as opposed to Trump, there was an expansion of people who heard like, you're like, you know, probably, I'm not sure.

[Pat]

A lot of illegals.

[Sam Cedar]

No, no, excuse me.

[Pat]

10 plus million.

[Sam Cedar]

A single one of them.

[Pat]

Breaking number.

[Sam Cedar]

Hold on, you're changing the subject now.

[Pat]

No, no, I'm not.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm talking about that video.

[Pat]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

And every one of those Social Security numbers that was handed out, the illegal immigrants. I will get to.

[Vinnie]

You don't care about those people.

[Sam Cedar]

I will get to that.

[Vinnie]

You cared about children, but you don't.

[Sam Cedar]

Want to talk about this. And I don't blame you because it's important.

[Pat]

But let me, let me do every.

[Sam Cedar]

One of those Social Security numbers.

[Pat]

Do a quick time out here, Sam. Let me just do a quick time out. You said you don't want to talk about this. You just spun away from a question I asked you and you brought this up. You haven't even addressed the question I asked you. Wait a minute.

[Sam Cedar]

We'll get to the point that I.

[Pat]

Let's go back to what I asked you. I asked you a question. That the money that's going in Americans prove that they don't trust the government getting the money than free market, free enterprise.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't think you're.

[Pat]

They never addressed that.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't think that's the case. People love Social Security.

[Pat]

People love the expenditure. What we learned with Doge, the American people said, sam, enough of you taking our tax money and see what you're doing with it.

[Sam Cedar]

Elon Musk made that Wisconsin election of a referendum on Doge. To the extent that we've seen anybody vote on Doge. Nobody heard the word Doge before November of last year. To the extent that we've seen a referendum on Doge. It just happened in Wisconsin. It happened in Florida, where the, where the size of the win by those Republican congressmen was cut by 1720 points. I mean, this is a wipeout. And every republic and you're going to see a difference in Republican lawmakers over the next year and a half because anybody who was in a plus Trump, 8 district or less is now starting to go like, wait a second. That's why Musk is being shown the door, supposedly. So getting back to my point about those Social Security numbers, they were given all to legal non citizens. And every one of those cards, you can't vote because I think you definitely said, and I think maybe you said that this is a Democratic strategy to get voters. Hold on for a second. This Social Security card that they get literally says, not legitimate for voting purposes. It is so that these. On these non citizens who are legal, just like when you came in, excuse me, pay into the Social Security system and get. Many of them never get that money back. So in addition to the undocumented immigrants who pay in $22 billion a year into Social Security and get zero back, these people pay several billion dollars in a year. And only if they become citizens, which most of them won't, most of them will go back home over a period of time. They're here for temporary protected status. Maybe some of them are refugees and they get permanent citizenship. They won't get that money either. So every single thing of that video, this video here was completely wrong that you guys did. It was fascinating to me because I feel like you, at the very least, I believe that you care about the information you're putting out. And this was all wrong. And so they're up there.

[Vinnie]

So, Sam, this is all a lie. These guys were up there just completely bullshitting with all the numbers where he's saying that people in the government. People in the government are blowing the whistles. He didn't want to say their names. He was giving them praise. And for some, Sam, for you to say that you care. You care about the kids and the labor and all that stuff, We've had an open border for four years and all the illegals, way more than 10 million have come into this country. California. Is that where you live?

[Sam Cedar]

No.

[Vinnie]

Where do you live?

[Sam Cedar]

I live in New York.

[Vinnie]

Okay, great. Even better. California. So the amount of money that we spent on illegals with housing and all that shit, and Gavin Newsom passing a law that you don't even need an ID to vote, you're saying that we're coming up with where. Where these people aren't coming in for the votes. That's the main goal of this whole thing. What was open border for? Why. Why was the border open for four years? Answer me that question.

[Sam Cedar]

First of all, the border was not open.

[Vinnie]

Give me a floor. Are you. Are you kidding me? Look at the. What do you mean the border wasn't open?

[Pat]

Are you.

[Vinnie]

Hold on. Did you smoke?

[Pat]

You know what I love about this? That's ridiculous, by the way, Vinnie, here's the part, though, full of it. Bro, here's the part. Sam, here's the part. When I hear this, okay, Anybody can.

[Sam Cedar]

Look at that video. The things you were saying yesterday was a type in.

[Vinnie]

Be honest with me.

[Pat]

Immigration year over year over year, illegal immigration year over year.

[Vinnie]

The fact that you're saying the border wasn't wide open. How many deaths. How many deaths have happened? How many fentanyl deaths have happened per year while you're freaking. President Joe Biden was in office? How many. Hold on. How many Americans died just from fentanyl? And you're saying the border wasn't wide open? We've had the most illegal entry in four years in the history of the country. Let me finish. And this is why your party sucks. This is why your party is at 29% approval. Because you got 20. Thank you. Because all you guys do is talk shit and just go anti Trump. You have no policies. You guys have no vision. You have no leaders. You're talking about oligarchs and you hate the oligarchs. What do you think Bernie Sanders and AOC are going to get their money from their donors? Are you like, don't lie to yourself for you to look. And like, by the way, you're talking about yesterday, we lied.

[Sam Cedar]

AOC and Bernie Sanders don't talk.

[Pat]

Hold on.

[Vinnie]

Ready for this? You're saying that we lied two days ago you just lied and you're going to look like a fool that the border wasn't wide open. Look at this chart. What does that chart say to you? What is that? What, what did Trump. When Trump was in, he was trying to close it, but your party was fighting it. It's unbelievable how many illegals have come in in the past.

[Pat]

But this is. This is the part to just be very. Just show the data. Illegal immigration. This is. Wall Street Journal is a bigger problem than ever.

[Vinnie]

Oh, no.

[Pat]

These five charts explain why. Go a little bit lower. That's under Biden.

[D]

Trump got shot trying to show these charts. Literally.

[Pat]

This is October of 2023. Go to the next one.

[Sam Cedar]

A guy who was registered.

[Pat]

Here's another one.

[Sam Cedar]

Can I address what.

[Pat]

Let me show the data. And then I want you to say.

[Sam Cedar]

What you want to stress.

[Pat]

Go a little bit lower with the data. Rod. No, because he said it's inaccurate. This is another one here.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay, well, go back up. Go back up to this and then.

[Pat]

Go to the last one. Go to the last one.

[Sam Cedar]

Go to the top one here.

[Pat]

I mean, this is the numbers you're talking about. So this is.

[Sam Cedar]

You start one by one.

[Pat]

Go up Explain every one of them.

[Vinnie]

Okay, yeah, go ahead.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah, you can see that this is what constitutes illegal immigration. These are. If it was an open border, you would not have these numbers. You would not have the numbers to know when Title 42 ends. Yeah, more people are coming to the border and they're being put into a system, period.

[Pat]

The best part of.

[Sam Cedar]

And that's. So that's the.

[Vinnie]

Because they were told to come. When your president says come to the country. No, I'm not yelling. Just give me facts.

[Sam Cedar]

Can I turn down his microphone? Because he can't.

[Pat]

Yeah, just see which one he is. I think he's seat three or. Which one is it?

[Sam Cedar]

C3.

[Pat]

C3.

[Vinnie]

C3. Go ahead.

[Pat]

Lower that right there and then the mic right there.

[Vinnie]

Is that good? Is that good? There you go.

[Pat]

Okay, go for it. All right.

[Vinnie]

Okay, go ahead.

[H]

All right.

[Vinnie]

So you're still going to hear the truth, though. Go ahead.

[Sam Cedar]

No, no, I'm happy to.

[D]

You can't turn down the truth.

[Vinnie]

No, you can't.

[Sam Cedar]

Open border would mean that we have no records of people coming across the border. The law in this country has been that if you put your foot in this country, it's a. It's an international law. It's a U.S. law. If you put your foot in this country and you apply for asylum, you are due a process to do that. 98% of. Of those people who are then what you guys would call catch and release come back for their hearings. We are woefully understaffed in terms of, like, immigration judges. And that process is definitely broken. I would love to see more money spent in the processing of these people so that we can establish which ones. Like your family.

[Vinnie]

Like my family as well. Illegal immigrants.

[Sam Cedar]

No, no. But. But came in through a refugee status. They weren't citizens on day one. They came in, they went through a process, and they. It's possible at that time. I mean, I remember, you know, I was old enough to remember the Iran hostage situation. I remember the fallout afterwards. There may have been some form of temporary protected status, whatever was at the time that allows people to come in, then they're assessed and processed. It's determined that, yes, their claim for asylum is appropriate or not, etc. Etc. That's what we're looking at there. As you, as you scroll up on those other, other charts, you can see when, when Title 42 ends, which was only supposed to be an emergency situation for half that has to do with health. And you can't have it both ways. Either Covid ends or it doesn't end the pandemic. And so people come in, there's no doubt. And that number on that chart that Musk had under Biden, more people receive temporary protected status. We had a problem in Haiti as the country has fallen apart. You had people from Ukraine coming in because of obviously the invasion. These are all under temporary protected status. They all got Social Security numbers so they could pay taxes into our government and not necessarily get the services back.

[Pat]

And vote for Democrats.

[Sam Cedar]

No, they can't vote. Those Social Security cards literally say, you can't use this.

[Pat]

AOC said, we don't have an illegal immigration problem. We have a documentation problem. That's what AOC said. So this is not. This is not something new. You know how when you talk about who's better at gerrymandering, who's better at gerrymandering, the left or the right?

[D]

Republicans seem to be better at that.

[Pat]

Republicans, I agree. Guess what? But so it's not like they can fight it and say, no, we're not. That's their reputation. They have it. They're better at gerrymandering. Strategically, they're better at doing that. But when for you to sit here.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't have a problem.

[Pat]

May I make my point? Let me make my point.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah.

[Pat]

When I. When you sit here and you watch yourself when you're saying these policies and you spew out these policies, what the average person does, they'll watch it. And if they've already outgrown it. Because today the problem with, you know, folks, content creators have. Today's the following. Say we say something on a video and we're wrong. You know what others will do? They'll react to it and they'll say stuff to it. And if we're right, they'll keep coming to us to want to hear more of it because they'll say, at least you sound reasonable. And they'll say, you know, I have to. I want to hear what John has to say. I want to hear what Joe has to say. I want to hear what Megan has. I want to hear what, you know, whoever these people are that are giving ideas that they want to say, right? But when you keep saying stuff that others are able to tear apart so many times that a liberal, a former liberal watches that maybe was a viewer of you and says, how can Sam not see this and outgrow it, he is still stuck on this policy that's been proven. Americans don't want to pay more taxes to a government that wastes their taxes. How does he not see that? How does he keep pushing this agenda back and forth? Then you lose an audience. And the people you keep is the following. Here's who you end up keeping. You end up keeping an audience that makes you think you're right. But that's not always the case. You keep an audience that, of course, hates rich people. Rich people are bad people, and they're probably not making a lot of money. And they come to Sam to save them. Hey, let's trash and bash rich people, because this is what we got to do. Yes, Sam, let's go after the rich people. But in reality.

[Sam Cedar]

Are you talking about me? Because we just had our biggest month.

[Pat]

No, and.

[Sam Cedar]

And when people had the biggest one.

[Pat]

Because of Jubilee, you were on Jubilee and you were on that.

[Sam Cedar]

We were going back up.

[Pat]

No, you were on Jubilee, and Jubilee gave you a lot of eyeballs. So Jubilee brought a lot of traffic.

[Sam Cedar]

People agreed A lot of.

[Pat]

I mean. No, no, no.

[Sam Cedar]

I mean, a lot of people agreed.

[Pat]

Did more agree or disagree?

[Sam Cedar]

I would say a lot more agreed.

[Pat]

Well, you would say that because you're in it.

[Sam Cedar]

So, I mean, you want me to do metrics? We had our biggest subscription.

[Pat]

I believe you because Jubilee helped you.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay. But my point is, is that credit.

[Pat]

You should say thank you to Jubilee. That's a. That's a very Jubilee. Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

I would also add that, like, I think there are definitely people who watch my show and then over a period of time are going, I disagree with Sam. And proudly. Those people move to the left of where I'm at.

[Pat]

You think people move to the left? 100%, Sam, do you realize. Do you realize how. How to. To make a statement? And I love that you said it.

[Sam Cedar]

Oh, it's true.

[Pat]

Love that you said it. So you think people who age and live longer, they go further to the left and to the right. You think as people mature in life.

[Sam Cedar]

Am I the oldest person on this?

[Pat]

No, you're not. But you.

[Sam Cedar]

Pretty close, I bet.

[Pat]

No, you're pretty far. It's just the other guy looks very young, but you, as you.

[Sam Cedar]

How old are you?

[Pat]

He's 62.

[Sam Cedar]

You got me by three years.

[Pat]

Yeah, so you're not.

[D]

So you're 59, dude.

[Pat]

Yeah.

[D]

Good for you.

[Pat]

But do you think. Do you think. Do you think as people age, they become more conservative or more liberal, more leftist?

[Sam Cedar]

I think it changes with generations.

[Pat]

No, that's not the case. There is a evident more of one or the other. Do you think, like, it's asking a question. Do you think as we age, do our bones get stronger? Or weaker. They get weaker. As we age, do we become more leaning? Okay, this is a chart. Perfect. Thank you for that, Pew Research. As we age, we become more conservative. But to you, the more you age, the more. The more you become progressive and leftist. See, that's the part where Americans, as they age and go through, you may have a very young audience that finds you this.

[Sam Cedar]

I think if you look at this chart, and first of all, you'll also notice that, like, the dynamic shifts. Right. If what you were saying was true, 70 to 79 would be greater Republican favor than 60 to 69. I don't know what to tell you.

[Pat]

But I will also tell what your stick is. I'm getting your sticks.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm looking at the numbers.

[Pat]

P. 18 to 24 is 34. Then it goes to 32. Oh, my God. You know, they became more liberal because they went to college and they screwed up their brains. And then they go to 42, 47. 50. 50. Oh, oh, they dropped to 51 and they go to 58. Nope. They're becoming more liberals at 70 to 79. Do you know why 70 to 79 become more liberal? Do you know why 70 to 79 becomes more liberal? Do you know why seventy to 79 becomes more liberal?

[Sam Cedar]

Yes. Because they're. They're getting Social Security.

[Pat]

Exactly. So they got to protect it. So they're like, hey, man. Yeah, at least. Yeah, I agree. But still at 80 plus, they're more conservative income. But you know what? 80 plus, they're more conservative.

[Sam Cedar]

I will also suggest to you, it has to do with the years that you grow.

[Pat]

The same thing I said to you last time.

[Sam Cedar]

50 to 59 grew up in a Reagan era and a Thatcher era. And as in, in the wake of that. So you can see that people are. Are more progressive, increasing.

[Pat]

Why did Charlie Kirk blow up so much the last four years? Specifically 18 months? Why did you blow up on TikTok? Out of all the places did you see. How do you blow up on TikTok? Do you know he was the most viewed jubilee out of all of them?

[Sam Cedar]

Did you. Did you see that?

[Pat]

I think so. Can you see how many views Charlie Kirk.

[Sam Cedar]

But this is.

[Adam]

That's inconvenient.

[Sam Cedar]

This is. This is just absolute.

[Pat]

Why do you think Charlie Kirk blew up? Blew up, though I. I have theories. I want to hear it.

[Sam Cedar]

How did he start? How did he. How did Charlie Kirk start?

[Pat]

I don't care how he started finishing. How did he blow up so much?

[D]

18 months going to colleges, speaking in front of colleges. What do you mean.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah. How did that TPUSA get started?

[Pat]

Tell us. Let's see what angle.

[D]

He was going to college, talking to students.

[Pat]

I actually want to hear what he says because I'm, I'm watching these two.

[Sam Cedar]

Times he got paid by a billionaire to start that organization.

[Pat]

Got it. So it's just the truth.

[Sam Cedar]

Listen, there's.

[Pat]

So there's no conviction on what Charlie does?

[Sam Cedar]

No, no, I'm sure there's conviction what Charlie does.

[Pat]

Why did Charlie do so in the last 18 months? I, I mean, why do you think a 20 year old guy, why is he blowing up the way that he is? Why is this.

[Sam Cedar]

He's not 20, he's in a.

[Pat]

28 years old, 29. 30.

[D]

He was 39. But he started when he was 20.

[Pat]

Yeah, the last two years he was in his 20s. Why has he blown up so much?

[Sam Cedar]

I mean, I think there's a lot of money circulating, but he started when.

[Vinnie]

He was 18.

[D]

Sam.

[Pat]

To go to college to blame it on the money.

[D]

What about his voice, his reason, his.

[Vinnie]

Rationale for Bright Bar?

[Pat]

Compelling, by the way. By the way. So here's a question. Here's a question. So you think if you got the same money, Charlie. God, you would have the same views?

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah, I think. You know, I saw Milo Yannianopoulos on Tim Pool about a month or two ago talking about how the Daily Wire got so big. And he said, this is Milo Yellenopoulos.

[Pat]

Well, he said Charlie's different than daily wine 100.

[Sam Cedar]

He said in the right wing.

[Pat]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

Content area era. He said, we buy, we buy. Bots, we buy. Views, we buy. I mean, I knew. I'm telling you what Milo Yanapoulos said.

[D]

Go ahead.

[Sam Cedar]

This is what he said.

[Pat]

Pull it up.

[Sam Cedar]

And he said, this is fantastic. We fake it till we make it.

[Pat]

Oh my.

[Vinnie]

And that's why he's. That's why he's non existent anymore. He used to be a big voice. Now you don't hear nothing.

[D]

Sam, respectfully, there's something called giving credit where credit is due, regardless of where Charlie got his money. Hold on, hold on, hold on.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't care. Great. I'll give him credit. Charlie Kirk. But it's made a lot of money.

[D]

But that's not where the credit is due.

[Sam Cedar]

What do you want me to say?

[D]

And I don't even know how much money he's made. The, the point is he's motivated a lot of people. That's what. Where the credit should be done. He's changed the hearts and minds of people on campuses he would arguably be the number one reason that Trump flipped Arizona.

[Vinnie]

Yeah.

[D]

To not give someone credit for the good work they've done and blame it on a billionaire.

[Sam Cedar]

Money flipped Arizona. You look at TP USA played heavily in the Carrie Lake race.

[D]

So huge.

[Sam Cedar]

And. And the. The biggest. The widest loss they had was people under the age of 30.

[D]

Okay, so you don't want to give Charlie any credit.

[Pat]

You blame.

[D]

So I don't care. But Sam, hold on. Before being.

[Sam Cedar]

Give him all the credit.

[D]

Before being a nihilist.

[Sam Cedar]

I'll give him a trophy.

[D]

Sam, you've had. Let me just ask this question.

[Sam Cedar]

He can take the.

[Pat]

Sam, I don't think Charlie wants.

[D]

We're right here.

[Pat]

But Charlie needs anything.

[D]

Yeah. Sam.

[Pat]

Charlie won on TikTok.

[Adam]

So a billionaire gives Charlie money and he automatically wins. Okay, I got a question for you. Explain how Marc Benioff puts money into Time magazine and it goes down.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't know who Marc Benioff is. Sales house for Red Time magazine.

[Adam]

Well, you should get around more. It's unfortunate come out of the echo chamber. Marc Benioff is one of the most successful entrepreneurs of all time who used his money after his business success. And he went and he buys Time magazine because he wants to push liberal views and values. And the thing craters.

[D]

He would love.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, then he's a billionaire.

[Vinnie]

Hit him up for money.

[Sam Cedar]

Getting out of my bubble, right?

[Pat]

Yeah. But you know what it is? I like to give everybody the benefit of the doubt. I truly do. And I. I try to look at the only one you can succeed in business and in life and in sales like you're developing other people is you have to always look at the best of everybody. You don't have a choice as a parent. You have to always look at the best of your kids. You don't have a choice for them to do their best. Right. And I truly want to look at you and look at it from the part of the best to say, capable, great communicator. You know, temperament is solid. You go through it. I want to see all the good with you. But the part where you sit there and you realize some policies don't work.

[Sam Cedar]

The young policies don't work.

[Pat]

Go. Go to what?

[Sam Cedar]

Name a policy that I support that doesn't work.

[D]

What do you think about 90% tax rates? I would. I would start there.

[Pat]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

Like I say, when we have those in this country, this is. Everybody can look this up. We had what was known as the great compression. It was the greatest. The market expansion of our. Of our Economy and the lowest. What do you think we had in the history of this country? I don't know how you would define it. Anything other than a six.

[D]

Let me ask you a question. Let's stay right here in this 90% tax. 90%. So top marginal. I'm with you. So you get to keep 10%.

[Sam Cedar]

No, no, no. 10% top margin dollars after 4 million.

[D]

Okay.

[Pat]

No.

[D]

Well, here we go. I'm going to ask you a question. Like stay with me for a second. You just said you had a great month, great quarter. Right.

[Pat]

Like you, Jubilee was whatever it was. Billionaires. You know what, what billionaires are?

[D]

How much additional profit revenue did you make in the last quarter because you've went viral so many times. How much?

[Sam Cedar]

I, I mean, I don't know, but I would guess it's somewhere around tens of thousands.

[D]

Tens of thousands. So not millions? Tens of thousands. Okay, so what are you going to do with that extra 30 grand? 100 grand? What are you going to do with it?

[Sam Cedar]

We're going to hire another person.

[D]

Oh, so you're going to expand?

[Sam Cedar]

Well, I don't know if we're going to expand, but I, I'm going to, I'm going to probably.

[D]

I mean, you're going to invest.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, I may invest into some of it.

[D]

You're not just going to bear it in the sand, you're going to use it.

[Pat]

Correct.

[D]

Okay.

[Adam]

Oh, wow.

[D]

Here, here, here's the problem.

[Sam Cedar]

Understand this is the company. These are pre tax dollars. When I say 90 cents on every dollar, I'm talking individual tax. So these ideas, this is not about corporate tax. It wouldn't impact anything you're saying about the business, but go ahead.

[D]

But we're talking about taxes in general. Let's do inside based.

[Sam Cedar]

There's a difference between personal taxes and corporate taxes.

[D]

Well, if you have an S corp, it flows through to the individual. So it's the same thing. How are you registered with the, with the irs?

[Adam]

Through to you.

[Sam Cedar]

It's pre tax dollars.

[Vinnie]

It's literally what it does.

[D]

It's the same as individual, but respect to you.

[Pat]

But see, we don't have a problem with you making money and getting. I want you to be okay with that.

[D]

Honestly, I'm a little disappointed. It was only tens of thousands of dollars. I wish it was millions of dollars. I wish the best for you, but here's the problem. Why you can't tax your way to making everybody wealthy.

[Sam Cedar]

No, no, no. I'm not taxing my way to making everybody wealthy. I am taxing my. Understand the 90% tax rate on. On every dollar after 4 million is to deal with wealth disparity in this country. Because I believe the more you concentrate wealth, the more you concentrate political power.

[D]

Why 4 million?

[Sam Cedar]

I believe in democracy.

[D]

Why 4 million?

[Sam Cedar]

Just because that's what we had for 15, 20 years in this country. I mean, it's 470,000 in 1940.

[D]

Just because I'm a student of history and I really appreciate Ronald Reagan. Do you know the Reagan story of why he ended up running for governor and for president? Do you know the whole tax story? Let me give it to you real quick.

[Sam Cedar]

The story of GE Sending him around to fight against Medicare.

[D]

Okay, but that's not the story we're talking about. The tax story that Ronald Reagan basically was like, holy crap. Because everything with taxes has to do with incentives and motivation. So the story with Reagan was the following. The t. The top marginal tax rate back in the 40s and 50s, when Ronald Reagan, before he became a governor, he was a famous. What actor. There we go. We're on the same page. Was $200,000. And the equivalent of $200,000 today is 2.5 million. So at $200,000, the top marginal tax rate was your favorite number.

[Sam Cedar]

90.

[D]

90. We're going. We're going somewhere. So do you know his famous quote? I'll do two movies a year. I get paid a hundred thousand dollars per movie. Tell me why I should go make a third movie. Because if you're going to tax me at 90%.

[Sam Cedar]

And you know what?

[D]

He shouldn't.

[Sam Cedar]

You've seen.

[D]

Exactly.

[Sam Cedar]

We didn't know.

[D]

No, no, don't go there, guy. Don't go there, guy. Numbers.

[Sam Cedar]

If you don't want to. If you don't.

[D]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Sam Cedar]

Don't make it.

[D]

Stop it. The reason he wouldn't make the movie is because he would only keep 10%. He said, famously, I can make freaking Gone with the Wind. I wouldn't keep any of the money. It has to do with. You said stick. Carrots and sticks. If you don't incentivize people, if you don't incentivize entrepreneurs.

[Pat]

Yeah.

[D]

Why will they work harder? Okay. Why will they invest? So you just had a great incentive. You killed it. You made tens of thousands.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm metaphor.

[D]

Do something with that money.

[Sam Cedar]

So what happens when Ronald Reagan gets to that threshold of the. Of the wealthiest of the wealthy in the country? Because that's what it takes, right? To. To be making $4 million a year.

[D]

No, no, no, no, no. You're making up 4 million. Like 2.5. It's 200,000. Yeah, let's use that.

[Sam Cedar]

2.5.

[D]

That's what the correlation today. Yes. Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

So if you're making $2.5 million a year, that places you in the top 1 or 2% I would imagine maybe even smaller.

[Pat]

It's less.

[Sam Cedar]

0.5%.

[Pat]

Top 1% is about 600, 500.

[Sam Cedar]

So you're in the top point 5% of the.

[D]

Just like you're in the top 1 point percent of a podcast. You're doing great.

[Sam Cedar]

Top point 5%. What happens when Ronald Reagan decides I'm only going to make two movies a year is you get an opportunity to be that actor and then somebody else gets the opportunity to make that money.

[D]

So shittier actors get more opportunities. It sounds like dei.

[Sam Cedar]

No, it's not. Believe me, I've been out in la. The best actors don't necessarily get every role. And so it gives an opportunity to spread the wealth. That's exactly what it is.

[Adam]

Centralized subjective fairness on the altar of greed and jealousy. That's what it is. Because it's not fair that all of these people work their ass off and did and achieve something. We have to stop them and go get someone else who maybe isn't working hard because that's so unfair.

[D]

Fair.

[Sam Cedar]

Are you telling me that there aren't enough hard working actors who get your stick?

[Adam]

That's your stick. I'm asking you a question here because it's about greed and jealousy, isn't it?

[Pat]

Let me tell you.

[Adam]

So the greed that you attack is the greed that you, that you have. You're sitting there. These people must have been greedy. They got all this money and everything and you're envious and you're greedy for their money. So we're going to take it from them. It should be 90% they'll keep making. Oh, but that's good because now we've.

[Sam Cedar]

Stopped them from making it obvious to everybody how jealous I am of all of you.

[D]

No, it's not, not, not.

[Sam Cedar]

Please go about, about incentives. That is why Ronald Reagan brought in Arthur Laffer and you know.

[D]

Yes, of course, explain it.

[Sam Cedar]

Laffer curve says that if you, the higher you go up on taxes, the least incentive there is for people to make money.

[Pat]

Yeah.

[D]

Or to try harder or to earn more and work harder and stay late and be an entrepreneur, try to build something.

[Sam Cedar]

But the lower you have taxes, you can actually lower taxes and you'll get more revenue because these people are going to actually be more incentivized because they get to keep more. Arthur Laffer was the key advisor to Sam Brownback when he became governor of, of of Kansas in 2012. You can look this up. People just have to google Sam Brownback Kansas 2012. What happened with the great Kansas Experime? He did exactly what Arthur Laffer said. He slashed taxes. Slashed taxes for S. Corps, etc. Within I think it was two or three years, the Republican legislature rose taxes because revenues had cratered so badly and they had so destroyed what was once the jewel of Kansas, their education system, their higher education system. They rose taxes. Okay, well there you go. I mean there it is. Kansas provides compelling evidence of the failure of supply side tax, which is exactly what you're after.

[D]

You know how many, do you know how many case examples I can show of cutting taxes help states, helps companies help people?

[Sam Cedar]

Please show me one.

[D]

How do you think this company that we're sitting.

[Pat]

Hold on.

[D]

Show the state, Sam. Hold on.

[Sam Cedar]

Google this.

[D]

You want to throw out some. How do you think this company right now.

[Pat]

Let him, let them say that and respond to it. Okay, so for example, where are we at right now? What state?

[Sam Cedar]

Florida.

[Pat]

Okay, can you tell me why out of all the 50 states in America in 2024 that voted for president, why did 54, 50 state become more Republican? Can you tell me why out of 50 states that voted for president, 2024. Can you tell me why the two state that lost the most people, the only two states in America that lost a trillion dollars of money under management, that left their states to another state like Nevada, Texas and Florida. Can you tell me why those two states, Imagine New York and California during COVID lost a trillion dollars of wealth that left to other states. And even after all those people that left, the two states that became more Republican than they were before in 2020 were New York and Texas. Can you tell me why people come to Texas? Why do people go to Nevada? Why do people go to Florida? Why do you think it is? Is it because maybe they don't have state taxes? Why do you think Arthur Laffer's in Tennessee? Why do you think Musk is in Texas? Why do you think Rogan went to Texas? Why do you think California is losing so many jobs? You think it's because of high taxes?

[Sam Cedar]

Like to evade taxes? Sure.

[Pat]

It's a vague. So you see. But no, no but guys, let me. Sam, respectfully, I just figured out who you are. I'm telling you, I just figured out who you are deep down inside of you. You have, you are driven by so Much power, control, a deep rooted feeling matching the qualities of a communist that wants to tell you what to do. And you think you know what's best for others. And if it isn't your. Your way, everybody else is wrong. And by the way, an extremely unattractive quality. Literally very.

[Sam Cedar]

Advocating for higher taxes on super wealthy people.

[Pat]

No, you're not. Because what you just said.

[D]

Two and a half million.

[Pat]

What you just said. Let me just make the point here. You just said people who left California and New York. Your first response was they're evading. As if they have to pay you. That's not how this works. They're evading taxes. These guys are tax evaders. They left. No, it's called if a company offers better benefits. Are you on Rumble?

[Sam Cedar]

I think we stream on Rumble.

[Pat]

Where do you. Where do you put your video clips the most? YouTube.

[Sam Cedar]

YouTube?

[Pat]

Why YouTube?

[Sam Cedar]

That's just where what the technology was when we started.

[Pat]

Why don't you do it on Vimeo?

[Sam Cedar]

We do run it through Vimeo.

[Pat]

Why don't you do all your stuff through Vimeo? Why do you do it on YouTube? Could you hire.

[Sam Cedar]

Most people are.

[Pat]

And that's where they pay the best.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, that's. Yeah, I mean that's where you have the most audience.

[Pat]

You're invading. You're evading the revenue. Going to another company. You're such an evader. Sponsorship money. Going to another company that keeps more money of it. You're such an evader. Why are you evading all this sponsorship money? You're such a sponsorship money evader. Sam Cedar's a sponsorship money evader. Everybody. Come on, man.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm a. I'm a sponsorship evader. What is it?

[Pat]

What did you call it? No, you called people tax evaders.

[Sam Cedar]

I think there's a lot of people who leave high tax states for low tax states.

[Vinnie]

Is that evading or is that just common sense?

[Pat]

You want to call them tax.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay. I mean if you want to think.

[Adam]

There'S a lot of.

[Sam Cedar]

If they're going for tax reasons, then they're trying to.

[D]

There's also a lot of people that go to lower cost restaurants versus higher cost restaurants. There's people that shop at h. Opportunity versus shopping at opportunity.

[Sam Cedar]

It's called saving money situations.

[Pat]

If I have to. How about you? If I have to be under someone's watch, like a dictatorship, quality like you that thinks you know what's best for us.

[Sam Cedar]

You think I'm a dictator, financial dictator.

[Pat]

The way you are. You feel your first answer was a tax evader. That's how you view them. You don't view them as a. As a asset to the state. You see them as criminals. You just called entrepreneurs that leave New York and California as criminals. Is tax evader a criminal? Rob, can you pull up what a tax evader is? Type in tax evader synonym. Tax evader synonym. What are some tax evader synonyms? Can you go to tax evader? Synonyms are also tax dodger, tax fraud, tax avoidance. You're calling these people criminals?

[Sam Cedar]

A person who tries to avoid paying taxes, often through illegal means.

[Pat]

Calling. But somebody who leaves.

[Vinnie]

So me, I left. So I left California because.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm sorry, it's. I should have said tax avoiders.

[Pat]

Right? Okay, so tax evaders. Right, Avoiders. It's, it's. It's called are we good with tax avoiders? It's called better opportunities.

[Sam Cedar]

Am I a better person if I.

[D]

Say also a tax avoider?

[Pat]

Better opportunity.

[D]

Because if you have an S corp, you have what is called as write offs.

[Vinnie]

Oh, that's such a.

[D]

So you don't.

[Pat]

So like when you do.

[D]

When you write, you do write offs.

[Sam Cedar]

Do I do business?

[D]

I already know the answer.

[Pat]

Of course you do. Write off such an office.

[D]

Why would you think.

[Pat]

Sam, you're a tax evader.

[Vinnie]

Call the feds.

[D]

Here's something that I.

[Adam]

You probably have an accountant helping you.

[D]

He does. Sam, here's something that I've learned. It's okay to say the following. You ready, Man? I might have been wrong on that one.

[Sam Cedar]

I just. In anything I should have said.

[D]

I'm just saying. Because where growth happens is.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah.

[D]

When you grow. I remember the most amount of money ever made was in 2016. I was like, oh, my God, like a millionaire. Now it's a tax therapy session. I was like, oh, my God, I'm paying all this taxes.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't know what me about this is that like. I'm talking about policies that impact the country. I'm talking about the implications of. Of taxation on the top 0.5%, top 1% of this country who pays. And it is boiled down to you guys saying that I'm a bad person.

[D]

I actually think you're a great person.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't.

[D]

With bad ideas.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't care about, like, any of you as individuals.

[Vinnie]

Same boat as us.

[Sam Cedar]

About me.

[Vinnie]

Exactly.

[Sam Cedar]

Policies. And when we get into policy, I notice how this all pivots. And I don't blame you because frankly, if you tell the American public and maybe not this audience, because this audience is built on your. On your business, you know, around Your business doings and whatnot.

[Pat]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

But if you tell the American public that they are getting fleeced and they are losing political power to money, they react like they did in Wisconsin. They basically reject it. And so that's.

[Pat]

That is what happened in November. The message I'm carrying, what happened on November 5th, those people didn't come out.

[Sam Cedar]

They came out to vote for Donald Trump because Donald Trump is a character that they like.

[Pat]

Why didn't they come out in 2020?

[Sam Cedar]

Oh, why didn't they come out? Because they. Because Donald Trump was very close to their experience. And I think, I have a feeling in 2024, they'd also vote him out if he tries to run again.

[Pat]

Can you imagine, like, you had four years of a guy, his name is Donald Trump, then this motivational speaker named Joe Biden shows up and he fills up the arenas and he wins. Every time he spoke, 2,300,000 people would show up to just hear this man give a speech like one of those grateful ring.

[Sam Cedar]

Biden was a. Was a complete, like, placeholder for not Donald Trump.

[Pat]

This guy gets up there and he crushes Trump. And you guys are like, oh, he got so destroyed. Crushes Trump. Look at the way Biden beat Trump. People don't want a person like Trump. And then America watched all the policies that you support. Biden comes president, he does what he does. Four years later, his vice president, his vp, Kamala Harris, Google antitrust and see.

[Sam Cedar]

How popular it is.

[Pat]

VP runs for office. Okay, Runs for office, loses every battleground state. 89 count 50 for 50 states become more Republican. And you're sitting here saying, you guys think you got better policies.

[Sam Cedar]

No, I think Kamala Harris. Kamala Harris is. I mean, I think. Look, I think it was. What Biden did in staying in was atrocious. He should have gotten out way earlier. There's a story coming out now of, like, Ron Klain coming, seeing him before the debate and realizing the guy was a mess. And I think Harris's campaign was also poorly run. I think that, you know, nobody could tell what her policies were. Mark Cuban's going out there saying, I agree. Mark Cuban's coming out there saying, like, oh, don't worry, she's not going to do any more of this antitrust stuff. On one hand, I don't want a billionaire coming out and speaking for my candidate.

[Vinnie]

Did you vote for her? Did you sit that one out?

[Sam Cedar]

No, I voted for her.

[Vinnie]

You voted for Kamala just because. Hold on, hold on. What did. What did you. I wanted.

[Pat]

Hold on.

[Vinnie]

This is what drives me crazy about your side.

[Sam Cedar]

You guys voted for the lesser of two.

[Vinnie]

That is on what policy were you going for? What do you think that she was going to do different? What, what can you possibly. I would rather have you sit down.

[Sam Cedar]

I'll tell you.

[Vinnie]

Go ahead.

[Sam Cedar]

She was not going to cut Social Security functioning. She's not going to cut the USDA. She's not going to cut the FDA. She's not going to lose us $500 billion worth of, of, of return on investment with the IRS. She's not going to cut the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

[Pat]

She's not going to cut 300 investment investments.

[Sam Cedar]

Return on investment. Every dollar that you give to the irs, we get six or seven back. She's not going to cut the museum in July.

[Pat]

Did you say that?

[Sam Cedar]

Google it. Every dollar spent at the IRS gets six back in returns.

[Pat]

Goodness.

[Sam Cedar]

Very anticipating the cuts from Doge. The cuts from Doge are going to cost our government $500 billion.

[Pat]

According to who?

[Vinnie]

Studies suggest.

[Sam Cedar]

All right, I undersold it a little bit.

[Pat]

According to who.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay. You can spend time attacking the people. Do these calculations.

[Pat]

Not, not.

[Sam Cedar]

You need me to tell you more about what?

[Vinnie]

I'm just curious. I'm just curious to just Rando tariffs.

[Sam Cedar]

Applied in a willy nilly fashion that crash the economy.

[Vinnie]

So you don't, so you don't think the tariffs that Trump is. And I get it, that's exactly, exactly. The tariffs are exactly what America needs right now. Because let's just go to the border. What he did with the border with Mexico with the tariffs. What happened to fentanyl? What happened to all the deaths? What happened to all those illegals that are coming? What do you mean? He threatened them and they went and all.

[Sam Cedar]

Comes across the border at ports of entry. Fentanyl comes across the border. Not in illegals crossing the desert. It comes in.

[Vinnie]

Oh really? Coyotes. Oh really?

[Sam Cedar]

He comes in. It comes in at ports of entry. Google that.

[Vinnie]

Sam, I don't need to Google when it's like, yes, you do. You said you voted for, you voted for someone. You're coming up with these policies. The worst pick ever. The biggest loss ever. She lost everything. Because your side, you're talking about people. Wait, guys, let me ask you question. You're acting like your whole side was surprised that Biden wasn't there. Everybody knew, including you. He wasn't there at all. But you guys are like, he's just not Trump. The worst president in the history of the world of this country. Four years because you guys were pretending that he was all there and we knew it. And who was making all the decisions? Who was making all the decisions? Who was signing all this shit? Who was signing off? How many times did you have to see Biden sitting there? And they'd ask him a question and he'd go, oh, I can't because they told me I couldn't. He wasn't in charge.

[Pat]

They?

[Adam]

Who?

[Vinnie]

Yeah, who was they? Come on, Sam. It's like the most devastating loss the world. The country is over it. You guys aren't pivoting, ok? And if you think the future is Gavin Newsom, aoc, Bernie Sanders and Jasmine Crockett, you guys are doomed. Nothing is going to change. And Elon Musk, you think Elon Musk is a net positive or a net negative for society for what he's doing and pointing out what the hell these people have been screwing us for all these years? And he's pointing out you guys are mad at the person pointing out who robbed from you than the actual robber. That's the truth, bro. Yeah, he's a billionaire. You think he's doing it because he needs the money?

[Sam Cedar]

Has he found.

[Vinnie]

What do you mean? How much? How much fraud.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah. Is going to be indicted for fraud.

[D]

Well, what about the waste?

[Sam Cedar]

What?

[D]

Because it's not. Stop it.

[Sam Cedar]

What waste? They just cut the.

[Pat]

Sam.

[Sam Cedar]

What? They cut the agency that provides $295 million to museums and libraries. You appreciate libraries, don't you?

[D]

I know how much, Sam, you're pinpointing the one good thing that they probably did. What about the waste of countries all around the world for LGBTQ agendas in.

[Sam Cedar]

Rwanda, the money you're talking about, do you want money going to fraction of a percentage? And if we wanted to get rid of that money, there is a way of doing it, and that is to have Congress vote and reverse what they authorized in the first place. But to have a billionaire come in and decide based upon what his personal preferences are, that he's going to cut government in this way? I'm sorry, that's not democracy. It's not even remotely close to it.

[D]

He doesn't have the power to do anything. He makes a suggestion.

[Pat]

Why do you think?

[D]

And then the administration will do it.

[Pat]

Why do you think Americans voted?

[Sam Cedar]

I don't think Americans heard the word doge outside of it being some type of.

[D]

Of crypto before.

[Pat]

Why do you think. Why do you think Americans voted for Trump?

[Sam Cedar]

Well, I think because they're. They want change.

[Pat]

And what were they not happy with?

[Sam Cedar]

I think inflation was a big part of it for them.

[Pat]

What else you think?

[Sam Cedar]

I think for a, for, for a.90% of his voters voted for Mitt Romney. I think there is a. The Republican party wants to, you know, have tax cuts.

[Pat]

How do we get inflation? How does inflation.

[Adam]

Can we stay in 2024? You said inflation.

[Pat]

Give me one second. How does inflation happen?

[Sam Cedar]

Inflation can happen a couple of different ways. Inflation can happen because you have too much monetary supply.

[Pat]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

Inflation can happen in terms of both from a monetary supply level or a fiscal stimulus.

[Pat]

Right.

[Sam Cedar]

And inflation can also happen if you have a once in a lifetime pandemic that completely screws up all of your logistics. And so you've got, you know, shipping containers that usually cost four grand to ship, but now they cost 22 grand to get because they're in far flung places.

[Pat]

Because the, the 2021, that was in.

[Sam Cedar]

2012, it reverberates through the thing. We saw inflation dropping through 2024.

[Pat]

Sure.

[Sam Cedar]

We saw, I mean, we saw rate cuts on the table because we saw inflation drop.

[Pat]

Any of it was with. Again, so those are the main two issues. You don't think anything else. So you mainly think it was inflation. And your second point was.

[Sam Cedar]

I think in large, large part we have structural problems in this country and that's why we keep getting change elections where we keep going back and forth, back and forth was what was. I would say those structural problems range from. I think a lot of them have to do with wealth inequality.

[Pat]

Okay, so. So you think Democrats are better. Better at helping wealth inequality or Republicans?

[Sam Cedar]

I think Democrats are marginally better.

[Pat]

Tell me by due to what policy?

[Sam Cedar]

Well, taxation helps. That's a big part. Strengthening labor. I think, you know, during Biden, a lot of problems with Biden, but 6%.

[Pat]

Of the workers work from home. Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

So how about labor? I mean, strengthening labor strength in the marketplace helps with wealth inequality. I think antitrust goes a long way to wealth inequality because it literally is to break up the concentration.

[Pat]

Here's the other question for you. So Trump's close up the border, right. Where we are not getting like this. Numbers have dropped dramatically.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, I mean, if you go back and look in and I don't necessarily agree with Biden doing this, but if you go back and look at the numbers starting in the summer of 2024, maybe a little bit.

[Pat]

Stop it.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm sorry, go later. Just put it up there. But listen, I'm not in favor of.

[Pat]

Him doing this, but he did do it.

[Vinnie]

Wait, put up the graph of an election year. Let me try to slow down Let.

[Pat]

Me just get through this. And guys, here's what I'd like.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm not in favor, I'd like to.

[Pat]

Do, I'd like to get through some stories, but I just want to close the knot here and move on because we're not going to make any progress.

[Sam Cedar]

Get a graph of that.

[Pat]

Rob, if you just want to show up. Graph on immigration from 20. 21. 22. 22. Is that the chart you want to see? What do you want to see?

[Sam Cedar]

Let's see the one over the past.

[Pat]

Year, how many illegal images?

[Sam Cedar]

Dramatically. Dramatically in January. And I'm suggesting if you look at the past 12 months.

[Pat]

Okay, Rob, do me a favor. Find the chart on immediately when Trump comes in, what happens to illegal immigration in America? While you're doing that, here's a question for you. 10 million illegal immigrants came through the border in four years on Dubai.

[Vinnie]

Way more.

[Pat]

You're saying it's more.

[Sam Cedar]

What's the number of undocumented immigrants you think we have in this country right now?

[Pat]

What I'm asking is those four years, how many do we have during those four years that came through, that we have, according to credible sources? What do you, what's, what's the number.

[Sam Cedar]

You hear that were that are in the country now or actually just illegally.

[Pat]

During those four years?

[Sam Cedar]

I would imagine it's, it's probably close to like 5, 6, maybe to 10 million.

[Pat]

Let's say 10 million people said 10 million. Let's say it's 10 million. Let's say it'S 10 million. But give or take 2 million, let's just say it's 10 million. The number. Okay, those 10 million people that are coming here, are they rich?

[Sam Cedar]

No. Vast majority of them, I would say are poor.

[Pat]

Right. Okay. That they're coming here, who does that benefit? They're going to need jobs. Right. And what are they willing to work for?

[Sam Cedar]

Oh, I, I have, I, I, I think they're going to get exploited, without a doubt, if that's where you're going with this.

[Pat]

Oh, so let me get this straight. So, so who do they benefit? Do they benefit larger corporations that get cheap labor?

[Sam Cedar]

They benefit, yeah. Oh, so let me get me processing plan.

[Pat]

Oh, my God.

[Sam Cedar]

Oh, that's why I want them to have documents. Let them come to the border. So give them documents so that they can get worker protections.

[Pat]

So then if that's the case, you know what that validates. Joe Biden and the Democratic policies are better for the billionaires than Trumps are because they brought in cheap labor and that cheap labor helps. Who helps the rich.

[Sam Cedar]

I am in favor of, of a path to citizenship.

[Pat]

That is much and by the way, those 10 million people that came here illegally, give or take, and that was.

[Sam Cedar]

In that bill that they suggested in, in the fall of 2023 that Trump said he didn't want because he wanted to keep it as a, an issue.

[Pat]

Who do those 10 million people take jobs away from? Who do they take jobs away from?

[Sam Cedar]

I don't know that they take jobs away from that.

[Pat]

Oh really? Oh really?

[Sam Cedar]

We are at when I in, in 20 told that the lowest unemployment that it was possible to have with a functioning economy was what do you remember? It was something like 6 to 8%. And now our unemployment is at 4%. And so I, and it was lower than that. Before I continue.

[Pat]

You're not answering the question though. Who do those people take jobs away from?

[Sam Cedar]

I, I, I have answered it. I think largely they don't take jobs away from.

[Pat]

Perfect. I love what you just said. You think they don't take jobs away from anybody. Perfect. So if we go and we look at when China started trading, let me make the point. When China came through and was able to bring labor to us, 1971, it was called the ping pong agreement that they had where, you know, we can send labor there and labor at the time was 8 cents to 20 cents an hour, where for us minimum wage was a buck 60. Then in 2001, when the Clinton policies helped China join the World Trade Organization and at the time minimum wage in China was 20 cents to 50 cents depending on different regions and for us was 515, we lost 6 million manufacturing jobs, give or take the next seven years. Michigan, you got Indiana, you got all these other places. Where did those jobs go to? Who did they replace? Who lost those jobs?

[Sam Cedar]

What happened to all that manufacturing went to China.

[Pat]

That's right. So what do you think? These 10 million people that come here, who are you going to take jobs away from? Americans who are here legally, those jobs are going to go to somebody that's cheap labor.

[Sam Cedar]

That was the movement of capital. Capital decided that it was cheaper for them to move to.

[Pat]

I'm specifically talking about last four years. So when you're saying labor is not going to be taken from people in America, that's the credibility you lose. That's where people in 2000. Rob, can you play the clip with Stephen A. Smith who is been a staunch supporter of the Democratic Party for decades and now Stephen A. Smith is being called as a member of maga. You know, Rob, we can't play the whole thing. Can you go to the main part? Do you know the main part or no?

[Sam Cedar]

I do. Right after he reads this is when he responds.

[Pat]

Okay, let's see what he says. Rob, go for it.

[H]

This Owens, Sean Hannity and other prominent voices from the right on this podcast as reasons for his premise. Here's a portion of what he wrote on MSNBC.com in an article titled ESPN Stephen A. Smith is a Megaphone for MAGA Propaganda. Jones says, quote, Stephen A. Smith's embrace of the MAGA movement and its influencers has only continued in recent days. For example, he has spoken with right wing commentators Ben Shapiro, Megyn Kelly and Bill O'Reilly. You might be thinking that these were adversarial chats between a left leaning centrist and a conservative. But to adroit listeners, they can come across more as conservatives in friendly discussion than anything else. Smith's overt politicism seems to fly in the face of ESPN's apparent effort in recent years to deter some of its talent from speaking on controversial political matters. Either way, the network's most recognizable host is now regularly platforming MAGA propaganda at will. End quote. Now my team reached out to Jones to have a discussion about the article. I wanted to invite him on the show to talk with me one on one. Personally, I hope we get the opportunity to have that dialogue. He was busy. He didn't avoid the call or anything like that. It was no comment or anything like that. He didn't say anything. He was just very, very busy. What we called at the last minute, no shade on him. That's why it didn't happen. But in the meantime, let me express to you what I think about what he wrote. I think that's the exact problem with the left. You see, if I don't agree with you, I must be maga. It must be the case I'm platforming MAGA propaganda. Is that so? I don't view it that way. First of all, even though Eileen left, particularly with how I vote with presidential elections, I want to emphasize that I've always been a centrist. My entire life, I've never once described myself as a Democrat or a Republican. I'm a centrist, I'm a moderate. I don't trust either side. I'm not on one side of the other. Hook, line of sinker. You will see images or you'll hear me rattle off names of people who've been on this show.

[D]

Yes.

[H]

You see Ben Shapiro there.

[Pat]

Yes.

[H]

You see Bill O'Reilly there. Yes. I was recently on Megan's Megyn Kelly Show. Did you know I'm on News Nation with Chris Cuomo every week? Did you know that I just appeared with Jake Tapper on cnn? Do you know I've been on MSNBC on several occasions? You do you know you can pause. Yes, Sean.

[Pat]

So do you know what happens when a guy like Stephen A. Smith, he said he's always voted left when it comes down to presidential candidates that he has. So he's not a guy that voted for Trump. Right. When a guy like him comes out and he says, what the hell is going on with the Democratic Party?

[Sam Cedar]

Is that what he's saying there?

[Pat]

Oh, he said it many. You must not follow what he says because he has said that NonStop the last two months, three months.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't follow it.

[Pat]

You should. He's actually very good. He's reasonable. It would be good for you to watch. I like his approach. I think he's a.

[Sam Cedar]

Do you guys identify as maga?

[Pat]

No. No.

[Sam Cedar]

You guys identify.

[Vinnie]

Here's my question.

[Sam Cedar]

He seems to think it's an insult.

[Vinnie]

Yo, that's what I'm saying. Make America great again. It shouldn't be enough. If you want to make America great again, I'm all in. Call me Maga. All freaking day. I'm maga.

[Sam Cedar]

I just.

[D]

I'm mag. I just want to make America great.

[Sam Cedar]

He seems to take it as an insult.

[Pat]

No, I am America first. I'm America first. I voted for Trump in 2016. I voted for him 2020. In 2022, when people were leaving to the DeSantis camp, I stayed on the Trump camp. I've never been off that camp. He's the right guy for America. And I've been a registered independent now for about 17 years.

[Sam Cedar]

What do you think about these tariffs?

[Pat]

No, no. Stay on this topic here with Stephen. We'll go to tariffs next.

[Sam Cedar]

Guy from. I've never heard of. From.

[D]

I've never heard of Stephen Ace Mammoth.

[Sam Cedar]

No, the guy who wrote the.

[D]

Thank God.

[Pat]

Yeah. But what do you think about, you know, what he's been talking about lately with the Democratic Party?

[Sam Cedar]

Centrist. I don't have to subscribe to what a centrist perspective. I mean, he's a centrist like Gavin Newsom is a centrist.

[D]

Gavin Newsom.

[Sam Cedar]

Gavin Newsome is saying the exact same thing as Stephen.

[D]

A progressive policies have been a disaster. Maybe it's because he's a centrist as.

[Sam Cedar]

Of a week ago.

[Pat]

Maybe it's.

[D]

Come on, Sam.

[Sam Cedar]

Maybe it's like I just. You don't understand you guys.

[D]

Welcome to Bizarro World.

[Sam Cedar]

I have a set of politics. I don't care what Stephen A. Smith does. I don't care what Gavin Newsom does. Yeah, I don't. I don't care.

[D]

So you're rigid. You're not changing anything.

[Sam Cedar]

It's not a question of I'm rigid and I'm not changing anything. Like, I. There are specifics. Like, you know, over time, I have had a different perspective on the deficit over the past 20 years and understood it.

[Pat]

You become more liberal over the last 20 years. You become more of a leftist and progressive.

[D]

You got to be more malleable. You got to be more malleable.

[Sam Cedar]

I mean, to the extent, like, I don't, you know, like, you guys have these, like, labels that you like to, to use, and there's some type of gradation.

[Pat]

Yeah, I've always been labels.

[Sam Cedar]

Like, I've always been about where I am in terms of taxation, but I am, for a little bit more decommodification probably than I was 20 years ago.

[Pat]

So. And, and, and all I'm saying here, before we go look, I want to go to the audience, audience, we're coming to you here in a second to go through some of the stories here.

[Sam Cedar]

Why are we going to talk about tariffs?

[Pat]

We're going to talk about whatever stories we go through. But the one thing we did learn here with you is America grew up the last four years. America grew up the last four years. Many Democrats grew up. Every state became more Republican because of the horrible policies on the left. Whether it was how they handled Covid, what they did with our kids, how they handled people that didn't want to take the vaccine, and people were fed up and they voted for a guy who had already been president for four years. So it's not like they said they want something new. They said, no, we wouldn't go back to the guy previous to that guy. That is the biggest black eye to Obama, to Kamala, to Democrats, to everybody on the left. When they went back to the guy that they said they didn't want four years later saying, it's like an ex coming back and saying, babe, I messed up. I should have never gone with the other guy. You were my guy or guy. Babe, I screwed up. I should have never left you for the other girl. I'm such a dummy. Please, Trump, come back. That's what America did. And a guy like you, who I'm.

[Sam Cedar]

Not a big fan of Obama's and I'm not a big fan of of Harris's either.

[Pat]

But the point is, you still haven't graduated. Sanders. That's like seventh grade. The people that follow Sanders and AOC are in seventh grade, eighth grade. Their heroes are in high school. Your philosophies are popular in high schools, not with adults. The policies that you support are high school policies.

[Sam Cedar]

When I was in high school.

[Pat]

Oh, are you kidding me? You. Karl Marx was a hero in kids that went to high school because teachers were feeding the Karl Marx stuff.

[Sam Cedar]

I went to high school. Ronald Reagan was president, I can assure you that. And the wall still existed. And there is fear of communism and that socialism was barely ever expressed.

[Pat]

You're a step away from communism. Like socialism is a step away from communism. That's kind of where you are. You're like, you're right there saying, guys, I don't want to fully publicly say I'm a communist. I'll stay in this.

[Sam Cedar]

No, I know, because it's like mag. I don't want to identify as a socialist either. You're progressive, though. I would say I'm a progressive.

[D]

So what then is right of progressive? What's left of progressive? I know you're not big on labels, but just humor me. What's right and left?

[Sam Cedar]

You know, I'm probably a social Democrat, so I would say that there is a certain amount of society where I believe we do not need the private market to. To deliver it and is less efficient. So when it comes to health insurance, we have already in this country one third, maybe a little more actually on some form of government health insurance. The VA is actually government healthcare. The doctors work for the government, and that is actually gets very, very high.

[D]

And all I hear is good things about the va. Everybody high marks.

[Sam Cedar]

No, the health care does. Yeah, you go to the home.

[Vinnie]

Who. That's 100 false. From the worst service from the VA. Let's just. And I'm a veteran, and he's a veteran. He doesn't go to the va. I go to the va. I. I called yesterday just to make an example in our, in our, in our work area. I called. Nobody's picking up the phone for me to get an appointment. Zero. And when you go there, it's the most depressing thing.

[D]

But the good news is when you go to like get your to the dmv, the driver's license. That's great.

[Vinnie]

Oh, that's right. No, that's the best. Yeah, that's the best. The VA is not good.

[Sam Cedar]

States run the dmv. But my experience at the DMV is Not that bad.

[Adam]

Respectfully. There's one thing you said. There's one thing you said is that the private market is less efficient. We can look at 250 years of government and everything we've got here. I just can't get.

[Sam Cedar]

What's the administrative cost for Medicare?

[Adam]

That's your.

[Sam Cedar]

What's the administrative cost for Medicare?

[Adam]

Hang on. If that's your. Your one of your foundational beliefs that the private markets will be less efficient, then it's no wonder you where you are. I'm not going to pick on it. If that's your foundational.

[Sam Cedar]

What is the administrative cost for Medicare?

[D]

Tell us.

[Sam Cedar]

2 to 3 cents of every dollar in Medicare is spent on administrative costs in the private health care administrative.

[Adam]

Defined as what? You got to be careful. I got to be careful when I hear things like that because guess what? You go back and you look at, well, I was only counting this. I'm not counting this. It's like the same way you have a dollar, same way your side would count.

[Sam Cedar]

98.

[Adam]

Unemployment to come out later and readjust all the stats.

[Sam Cedar]

97 to 98 cents actually goes to paying Medicare providers, doctors. You know, we're gonna move on. We're gonna move on because you're answer.

[Adam]

The question that the private market health insurance less efficient.

[Sam Cedar]

It is 17. And if that's your dollar, we can't discuss because they're paying for, for advertising, they're paying for shareholder value, etc. Etc. So for every dollar you spend and, and on top of which, anybody who has private health insurance who deals with it themselves knows it's like having a second job just to either get reimbursed or you get, you, you get to figure out every year when you re sign up, is my doctor in or out of the program? It's a mess. It's a disaster. Medicare is the most efficient possible.

[Adam]

So wonderful people, why was Medicare and Medicare Advantage invented? It's so good.

[Sam Cedar]

Medicare.

[Adam]

It's every.

[Sam Cedar]

Republicans wanted to privatize it and oh, there's drug benefits that, Medicaid that. Medicare Advantage is the worst part of Medicare and people get sucked into it and they find out that they've been hoodwinked. I mean, these are all easily found data.

[D]

Sam, did you fly here?

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah.

[D]

Did you go through TSA? Did you go through TSA PreCheck? Did you go through Clear.

[Sam Cedar]

Who would you go through on the way here? My TSA pre check was not on the thing, so I just went.

[D]

It's messed up. You paid for it though, right?

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah. 60 bucks for the ts.

[D]

I'm saying. But you pay. I think it was like a 500 bucks or 100 bucks for five years for TSA PreCheck.

[Sam Cedar]

TSA PreCheck I think is 65 for five years.

[D]

That's amazing. It's a great deal. Why don't you do clear.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't want to do a private company.

[D]

TSA Precheck is basically like a public private partnership.

[Sam Cedar]

No TSA Precheck, you pay a little bit more. I'm not going to give my biometrics to look sad.

[Pat]

Private companies. And he frowns about. Frowns upon private.

[D]

Is that what's going on?

[Pat]

Because that's all it is.

[D]

Oh, I didn't fully understand. Okay.

[Pat]

I'm not going to give my money to a private company. Yeah. So let's, let's go to the next story.

[D]

Can we stay there for a second please? You don't want to give money to a private company. But you are a private.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't want to give my biometric information to a private.

[D]

You're using it or your dollars.

[Sam Cedar]

What about just private companies in generally fine with tsa. Preach.

[Pat]

We already got. I'm moving out of on.

[D]

Okay. I'm learning.

[Pat]

Moving on. No, I already learned. I understand. Great. So we know what the argument is. Progressive Trump set to unleash Liberation Day tariffs. President Trump will unveil Liberation Day tariffs on Wednesday at 4:00pm that was yesterday. That was yesterday. In a White House's rose Garden promising to stop America being ripped off and deliver a new golden age of US Industry. Though US White House. White House press secretary county said that he was still perfecting it to make sure it's a perfect deal with advisors. Less than 24 hours before Trump, who on Monday claimed he'd be very kind, has kept details vogue with reports suggesting options from reciprocal tariffs to a 20% blanket rate or preferential treatment for some nations. Rob, if you want to play this. Is this yesterday, Rob? Or is this.

[Sam Cedar]

This is yesterday from the Rose Garden.

[Pat]

This is fantastic. Go for it.

[Terrence Howard]

My fellow Americans, this is Liberation Day. Waiting for a long time will forever be remembered as the day American industry was reborn. The day American his destiny was reclaimed. And the day that we began to make America wealthy again. Going to make it wealthy, good and wealthy.

[Sam Cedar]

I also have another clip. This is the President discussing how the tariffs will help eliminate income tax go forward.

[Terrence Howard]

From 1789 to 1913, we were a tariff backed nation and the United States was proportionately the wealthiest it has ever been. So wealthy, in fact, that in the 1880s, they established a commission to decide what they were going to do with the vast sums of money they were collecting. We were collecting so much money so fast, we didn't know what to do with it. Isn't that a nice problem to have? What do you think, Marco? Good problem? Marco would love that problem. But we don't have that problem anymore. But we're not going to have it very much longer, I will tell you. But they collected so much money.

[Vinnie]

Word.

[Terrence Howard]

They actually formed a commission to determine what they were going to do with the money, who they were going to give it to, and how much. Then in 1913, for reasons unknown to mankind, they established the income tax so that citizens, rather than foreign countries would start paying the money necessary to run our government. Then in 1929, it all came to a very abrupt end with the Great Depression. And it would have never happened if they had stayed with the tariff policy. It would have been a much different story. They tried to bring back tariffs to save our country, but it was gone. It was gone. It was too late. Nothing could have been done. Took years and years to get out of that depression, far longer than even FDR had that office right over there for a long period of time. The ramp system, it's rather intricate, was built because of him. And every time you walk up, you think of him. And he did a great job in many ways, but it lasted long beyond his terms, as you know. But it's not too late any longer, and we're going to start being smart, and we're going to start being very wealthy again. We're going to be wealthy as a country because they've taken so much of our wealth away from us. We're not going to let that happen. We truly can be very wealthy. We can be so much wealthier than any country. It's not even believable.

[Pat]

But.

[Terrence Howard]

But we're getting smart.

[Pat]

Okay, Tom, your thoughts on this, and I'm gonna come to you.

[Adam]

So markets love continuity, even if continuity is rooted in, you know, trade inequality and things have been going on for decades. And to get through the shift, to get through the food poisoning, it's gonna. We can see markets react to sentiment, and markets don't know what to make of this. How many tariffs are gonna stay for a day versus a week versus a month? You don't know how many tariffs are gonna shift. Israel actually backed down and said, okay, we're done. Yesterday, Correct. Israel went, hang on, we're good. We're backing off. We're done here. Interesting. Canada moved a Couple of them, not the rest of them. Canada's still figuring it out, but they're blinking. Canada is blinking. So now the question is gonna be how long does all this take? And the markets, you know, the markets don't like it. The markets don't like the sentiment of uncertainty. And that's why you have Jim Cramer and other people. Oh, we're getting killed out here. You're getting killed because you like the status quo that you had a minute ago, because you knew how to play that game and you knew how those markets worked. And respectfully, they're there to trade and make money in increasing market. What is easier, it's easier to stay yesterday with what we've got, or there's a greater goal. And the greater goal is American jobs. And the jobs report was better than people thought.

[Pat]

Huh.

[Adam]

Interesting. That's not a headline. Why is that buried? And you've got the uncertainty of the markets now. The uncertainty markets makes everybody look at their 401k and look at the things and be concerned. And yes, there's concern there, but you gotta look down the street and see where we're going. And it is not easy to get through the food poisoning, but there is life on the other side. And you can see that's what the President is talking about. And I think we gotta trust it and we gotta look at what's going on. We can already see little islands of change going on. So let's find out how everybody else moves on these tariffs.

[Sam Cedar]

Sam McDonald's meets the Minecraft universe with.

[Pat]

One of six collectibles and your choice.

[Vinnie]

Of a Big Mac or 10 piece.

[Pat]

McNuggets with spicy nether Flame sauce.

[Vinnie]

Now available with a Minecraft movie meal at participating McDonald's for a limited time.

[Pat]

A Minecraft movie only in theaters.

[Rob]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with.

[Pat]

A message for everyone. Paying big wireless way too much.

[Sam Cedar]

Please, for the love of everything good.

[Pat]

In this world, stop with Mint.

[Sam Cedar]

You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month.

[Pat]

Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway, give it a try.

[Sam Cedar]

@Mintmobile.Com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available.

[Pat]

Taxes and fees extra.

[Sam Cedar]

See full [e-mail] you said tariff was the last word. That was the only time you used the word tariffs. Look, I am in favor of tariffs when it is part of a specific agenda to build a certain industry or A certain industry within a certain region. This is absolute insanity. First off, they're going to use this as potential revenue. Like he says, it's not going to replace the income tax, but what they're going to do is they're going to use it as an excuse to cut taxes on wealthy people. You guys would be very excited about that. But who's going to pay that tax? If it's $600 billion a year, as they're saying over a 10 year period, it's going to be $6 trillion. That is going to be a 5, an average of $5,000 tax on Americans. It is a regressive tax. I like taxation, but I like progressive taxation because $5,000 for somebody making $40,000 is a much bigger problem than $5,000 for me or for you. And so this is a regressive tax on Americans. Now if it's to work to build up industry and I don't know how we're going to have a banana industry in this country or how we're going to have a lumber industry to rival Canada's because we just don't have the wood or and so on. I mean, people get the idea, you know, there are certain industries, you can actually say this is one we're going to build up. Maybe there will be a low cost clothing business that, that revives in this country, but I doubt it. But if tariffs are meant to work to build up industry, that means people aren't paying those, those taxes. So the tariffs may not raise the money. But what will happen is, and I think you understand this too about pricing, if the price of goods goes up on average and it looks like in some of these places it's going to go way above 10%. I mean some of like, you know, Vietnam, like 39%, China 75%, they're adding all of these tariffs on. It's insane. Then US Companies, to the extent that there are ones that are making these same goods, they have between 0 and 75% to raise their prices. And they will because, you know, like the price of this, there's a certain elasticity and they can justify raising their prices 5% if their nearest competitor is, you know, 25% raise in price. I mean they'll do it because, you know, there's some products that people just can't do without. So this is such a disaster. And of course it also, what it also does is last time we had a major financial crisis in this country in 2008, it took six years for the stock market to get Back at Parity, you're talking about the, you know, 401ks have been a disaster insofar as, like, people just don't put as much money in them as they should because they don't have the money on a regular basis. But God help those people if there wasn't Social Security or robust Social Security, because if you've got a retire and you're 65 and you were planning on retiring, you have a small 401k, it is screwed. And it may not come back for years. Maybe it'll come back tomorrow.

[Pat]

But how do you feel about reciprocal tariffs?

[Sam Cedar]

Here's the other absolute insanity. Those tariffs that he claimed on that chart are not tariffs. Every, every economist out there has been saying, where did he get these numbers? And they're starting to figure out that they did some weird. There's countries on there that don't even have people in them. It's bizarre. They took like the CIA factbook and just made a list of countries. I mean, it's completely for show which countries. There's. Google it. There's like one or two places where there's no people.

[D]

Every single one of those countries.

[Sam Cedar]

No, no, they released a big release. He'll find it. And these are not actual tariffs that are being applied to us.

[D]

Every single one of these countries.

[Adam]

Are we sure there's people.

[D]

The China, the eu, Vietnam, Taiwan, Japan.

[Sam Cedar]

Do it on the.

[D]

On South Korea, Thailand, Switzerland, Indonesia, Malaysia, Cambodia. Which of those countries are there not.

[Sam Cedar]

People living put in the. Trump just, you know, added a tariff on a country with no.

[D]

Okay, so he may be.

[Sam Cedar]

It's one indication of how slapdash this is. No, dude, these are not tariffs. These are not.

[D]

On one random.

[Sam Cedar]

Those, those reciprocal tariffs. They're not. They're not. Those aren't tariffs. He is. He is. Combined. He is. Basically what they've tried to figure out is, like, where'd they get these numbers from? And they have taken the trade deficit and divided it by. By what we send there. And that's the way that they've. They've assumed that that's a tariff. It's basically. They're just saying we have these trade deficits. And of course we have trade deficits with. With certain places because there's some products that we're just never going to make, and there's some places that don't have the buying power that we have. I mean, so this is. This is just bizarre. And, and even, like former Trump trade people were just like, well, maybe it's just an opening. Salvo for a negotiation. And maybe it is. I mean, you know, like, I'm just fortunate that I'm not planning on retiring soon and my 401k isn't decimated. But this is going to cause inflation, and these prices are not going to come down. I mean, Trump is trying to tell us automakers, don't raise your prices. And if he wants to impose price controls, he would not be the first Republican president to do this. Nixon was the first president and the only president, as far as I know, to do price controls, at least in the modern era. I'm not necessarily against price controls in certain situations, but this is like such an own goal. It's fascinating, of course.

[Adam]

No, Jimmy Carter's wage and price controls were decades before Nixon. Whoops. Whoops. Checking my notes. No, it was after.

[Sam Cedar]

Right.

[Adam]

It wasn't just Nixon.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, Nixon started it. Right.

[Adam]

And there was no other president since Nixon started it. I was just kind of correcting that.

[Pat]

Okay, back to your rant.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm for price controls.

[Pat]

You are for price controls.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, I think we should have. Very well, we should have applied some in the wake of COVID Yes, there was a lot of gouging going on. I think everybody knows that.

[D]

I think it's.

[Sam Cedar]

I mean, there's plenty of data that at least 40% of the inflation was a function of gouging in some form or another.

[D]

Well, Sam, number one, respect for you for being here. I don't think, like, genuinely, you're. Whether you're a progressive or democratic socialist or skew socialist, you're talking to a bunch of capitalists and an angry patriot. That's cool. Like, we're not going to change your mind. You're probably not going to change our mind. But what we're solving for is the truth. The reality is these reciprocal tariffs, what Pat asked you about, are you familiar.

[Sam Cedar]

With the Golden Rule, do unto others as you want to do unto them.

[D]

Bingo. Do you abide by the Golden Rule?

[Sam Cedar]

I mean, in my personal relationships, yes.

[D]

There you go. So the golden rule is, you want to do something to me, I'm going to do it to you. If you treat me fairly, I'll treat you fairly. If you're good with me, I'll be good with you.

[Sam Cedar]

But if you want to substitute fair.

[D]

Hold on, guy. If you want to actually take advantage of me, then all of a sudden we might have to have a economic war, and that's what's happening. So if you show up that list, I know you want to focus on the one random country that you can't name. Hold on.

[Sam Cedar]

Tell us how England is taking advantage of us.

[D]

Well, England is part of the uk. We understand that. But if you want to go.

[Sam Cedar]

How is the uk?

[D]

Hold. Sam, hold on. You know, when people talk, you listen. And then when you talk, I listen. That's how conversations go. You know that.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm just asking you to clarify.

[D]

I'm gonna get there. So the way that these tariffs work is if they're doing something to us, we'll do something then. Rob, show the picture. So I would love to hear what you think. So all these countries have people living in all these countries. These, you know, China, the eu, that's part of, you know.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah.

[D]

All those countries over there. You get the UK over there. Vietnam, Taiwan, Japan, India. I'm pretty sure there's a bunch of people living in India, South Korea, Thailand. All these countries are charging us. So the reality is, if you go through the numbers, not feelings.

[Vinnie]

There's the whole list.

[D]

Sam, I need you to pay attention.

[Sam Cedar]

I got it.

[Vinnie]

Here we go. Now, the whole list.

[D]

They're charging us way more 90 of you to access their markets than we are charging.

[Sam Cedar]

That is not. That's the whole point. Those are not tariffs.

[D]

Stop it. You're gonna have to bring.

[Pat]

Rob, do me a favor.

[D]

So we're charging, on average, two and a half percent. The EU is charging, on average 20. Japan is 24. China, 34. Taiwan, 32%. Vietnam, 46%. These are what the numbers are now. If you have different numbers, I'd love to see them. But the reality is some of these countries are our friends, and some of these countries are our foes. And as Trump says, if you want to listen to what Trump says, in many cases, you know, many of our friends are a lot worse excited. Australia won't even let us sell us beef. So all these situations are actual numbers. You know, he talks about the Golden Rule. There's a similarity there. The Golden Age of America is what he's talking about. Because this is a way to bring down our deficits, to reduce taxes. I would love to hear if you.

[Sam Cedar]

Had a better idea to bring down our deficits.

[D]

These are trade deficits. Okay, so we have a trade deficit with Canada of $200 billion a year. They charge us, in many cases, 200 to 300% for dairy. Okay, Mexico is.

[Sam Cedar]

No, they do not. No, you're absolutely 100% wrong in the dairy. No, no, no. Your dairy thing is absolutely wrong.

[D]

You think there is my dairy thing?

[Sam Cedar]

This is not your speech. Yes, Trump lied. There is Not a single pint of.

[D]

Just like you lied about. How many countries don't have people dairy. Pretty sure India's got a couple people.

[Sam Cedar]

That dairy goes to Canada. We don't. If we, we sell a certain threshold tariffs are applied but we don't reach that threshold ever. There are no, not a dog.

[D]

Because it's too damn expensive to access the marketplace.

[Sam Cedar]

No.

[D]

Anyway, I'm talking about the sweeping tariffs. You're talking about being a milkman. What I want to understand is why.

[Sam Cedar]

Don'T you think about any of the facts at all.

[D]

Don't ps me.

[Sam Cedar]

No, because.

[D]

Are you serious? I used to think Google dairy.

[Sam Cedar]

Google dairy tariffs. The can your dairy. I'm talking about dairy.

[D]

But you want to go. I'm giving one example you want to have.

[Sam Cedar]

That's the only example you gave Auto.

[D]

Auto industries, they're charging us 25%. We're now doing a minimum tax, 10% across the board.

[Pat]

So minimum.

[Sam Cedar]

But in other places, Vietnam.

[Pat]

Let me, let me ask a simple question. The whole thing Adam just said it could have been simplified to we have around $1 trillion of trade deficits. Would you like to fix that?

[Sam Cedar]

Part of the reason why we have those trade deficits is because A we keep our dollar strong, B, because there are bigger customer bases in this country than in other countries. We, our economy is a. Based upon.

[Pat]

We're helping other countries economy improve. Don't you think we have the leverage to ask more from them?

[Sam Cedar]

I, I think again, I think tariffs work if there is a specific industry. Yeah, we saw this in the CHIPS act, right? There were carrots and there were sticks in the CHIPS act. We want to onshore chip production in this country both for like, you know, economic reasons, but also like long term national security reasons. And so what you do is you provide incentives and disincentives.

[Pat]

Have you ever negotiated a deal with anybody?

[Sam Cedar]

Well, I mean, yeah, I guess you do.

[Pat]

And are you decent negotiator? Are you a bad negotiator? Are you a horrible negotiator? What would you put yourself as a negotiator?

[Sam Cedar]

It depends on the context.

[Pat]

Okay. Do you try to find a way to negotiate where both sides win? Like a fair negotiation? Okay, so this is Newsweek. It's a, you know, newspaper and outlet that's on the left. But Rob, if you can go all the way to the top. Okay, this is a Newsweek outlet. So full list of countries of reciprocal tariffs. This is from today, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, yesterday was updated today. Okay, go a little bit low, Rob. If you could. So let's just kind of go. No, no, let's just start from the top and see what it says. So it talks about the Liberation Day. Great, got it. Why it matters Tariffs remain in place until US narrows a 1.2 trade imbalance recorded last year. That means we're making others $1.2 trillion more than we're making. That's the imbalance. Okay, so this is Newsweek. The President said there was a.

[Sam Cedar]

It means that we are buying more stuff from other places than they're buying from us.

[Pat]

Sure. Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

Because we have the biggest consumer engine in the world.

[Pat]

Sure.

[Sam Cedar]

So it would make sense.

[Pat]

But okay, if that's the argument continue now then the next thing would be hey, charge me the same thing I'm buying from you as you're buying from me. Let's keep that number the same number. Don't overcharge me for it. That's very. That is not a tough request that we're making. Go a little bit lower, Rod. Keep going. So the President is based on terrorists at 10% of all imports. Okay, great. According to Charles trumpell, you have 34% on Chinese imports, 20% on goods, European goods. That'll come up when we go a little bit lower. That's the picture he's talking about. Keep going low, Rob.

[Sam Cedar]

So it's ultimately going to be 54.

[Pat]

Plus another 10 on China until we become reciprocal. Yes. The US had an overall trade deficit of 918 in 2024 with the largest gaps coming from China 295 EU 235 Mexico 172 Vietnam 123. That's the numbers that we have there. Then Cambodia topped at a chart at 49 tariffs followed by Madagascar 47. Sri Lanka 44. Vietnam 46. If these were the two countries you said they don't have people there. I think I got people there. So if we go a little bit lower. Keep going, keep going, keep going. Here's a full list from Newsweek. China tariffs charged to the US 67%. That's just not us to them. 34% EU 39 list that the White House put out.

[Sam Cedar]

And all economists are looking at this and going what are they talking about?

[Pat]

Can fact check? Yeah.

[Vinnie]

They're not going to put out false information.

[Pat]

If not that's Newsweek. You don't the President of the United States just held believe in real news. So Taiwan 64, 32. Japan 46 24. India 52 26. Who the hell negotiate? Look at by the way each one of them. It's almost 2x 26 times 2 is 52. 25 times 2 is 50. 36 times 2 is 72. 31 times 2 is 62. But they did 61. 32 times 264. Malaysia 2447. Go a little bit lower. Wrap 49.97. 1010. UK were the same. So South Africa 30 60. Brazil 1010. Bangladesh 3774. 2x. If, if these numbers are true, Sam, let's say somebody on the left. Okay, fact checks this and this is someone that's a person you respect. If these numbers are accurate, what do you say then?

[Sam Cedar]

I'm going to read from CNBC since you guys won't Google this. Many observers said the US appeared to have divided the trade deficit by imports from a given country to arrive at tariff.

[Pat]

Can you text it to them so we can show it so the audience Google cnbc?

[Sam Cedar]

How did the US arrive at its tariff?

[Pat]

Go for it. We're not uncomfortable showing clips. Just say it. He'll pull it up. So which part do you want him to read?

[Sam Cedar]

Well, scroll down right there. Just number two. Many observers said the US appeared to have divided the trade deficit by imports from a given country to arrive at tariff rates for individual countries. Many observers, such methodology doesn't necessarily align with conventional approach to capital calculate tariffs. I mean, they've just made up what the tariffs were.

[Pat]

No, Sam.

[D]

Okay, maybe their methodology. But listen, what are the actual terrorists?

[Pat]

This is my question though. I actually want to know this year. Rob, you can ask Grok to fact check it. You can go under Charlie Kirk and just type in Grock. Is this accurate? These numbers? You can go to chat GBT that's ran by Sam Altman who is an enemy of Musk and see what that one says. You can fact check both of them. This is all I want to ask you to see. What's your credibility with being able to reason if those are correct, that they are charging us more taxes than we are? What do you think is the right thing to happen? If those numbers are correct, I think.

[Sam Cedar]

We should look at what industries we want to build in this country. Car industry, let's say, let's say we want to build solar panels, which is one that I would choose just as an example. We could go down the list, right. And I would also look at like okay, what regions do we have in this country that need more jobs, more manufacturing? And then I would target tariffs not necessarily on the whole country that's coming in, but I would target on those products coming from A given country. Because that is what is called a plan.

[Pat]

Does it matter?

[Sam Cedar]

As opposed to this bunch? Absolutely.

[Pat]

So. Oh, so you're willing to pay more. More to the. You're willing to allow the other person to tax you more for product you're buying than you're doing it to them. Who needs who more?

[Sam Cedar]

They're not. They're not taxing me.

[Pat]

Hang on a second. Reciprocal tariff is simple. It's saying if you charge me an additional 30, let's match it. I'll do 30 as well.

[Sam Cedar]

The point is, is that when. Let's say China has a 50% tariff on our cars.

[Pat]

Yes.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay. And they do that because they want to build their car industry, it is not going to create inflation in China because they have such a high tariff on our car. We may have. And certainly by we, we mean corporate America, politicians, and maybe not corporate America. Oh, it's corporate America.

[Pat]

It's politicians.

[Sam Cedar]

Listen, I saw in the 90s, like how corporate America was so freaked out by Tiananmen Square.

[Pat]

But I'm telling you my question.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm telling you my question.

[Pat]

Question is if that's accurate, if those numbers are accurate, that we're in charge.

[Sam Cedar]

I punish the American people with a regressive tax because you have some.

[Pat]

But you are though.

[Sam Cedar]

Elementary school, notion of fairness.

[Pat]

Elementary school. Here we go. Honestly, if those are true, okay. On them charging us more, would you.

[Sam Cedar]

Sit there and support charging more for our products to get in there?

[Pat]

Do you think it's fair for us to pay twice as much as we're charging them? Do you think that's fair?

[Sam Cedar]

I don't think that fairness has anything.

[Pat]

To do with claims. You're a fair guy.

[Sam Cedar]

What's best for the American.

[Pat]

Okay, so let me ask another question. Who needs who more? Does YouTube need you or do you need YouTube?

[Sam Cedar]

I probably need YouTube.

[Pat]

Why do you need YouTube more?

[Sam Cedar]

Because they have a lot of other people they can go to.

[Pat]

Thank you. Who needs whom more? America. Do you need the American customers or do we need bangle a dish? Who needs who more?

[Sam Cedar]

We better hope that a lot of these countries don't. I mean, Canada is starting to develop a different relationship with China. I mean, this is going to ruin a lot.

[Pat]

It's going to bring jobs to America. This is why Apple said, I'm investing 500 billion here. This is why EU said 1.4 trillion. This is why Saudi said 600 billion. This is why all these companies said hundreds of billions.

[Sam Cedar]

Why are they saying God's ear.

[Pat]

But why are they saying that, though? Why are they saying that? But why do you think? Why. Why did Rolls Royce said, we're going to move our different plants that we have from Mexico, Canada and China to us? Why are they saying that? Why are they saying that? These are jobs for your American people that are not getting paid. Trump's trying to get those people jobs. Why don't you support it?

[Sam Cedar]

Maybe there may be, there may be some benefit in terms of like manufacturing, but overall, you're going to have a regressive tax on America if, if, if you. It's not targeted. When you target cars, I agree with you. Tariffs have a place, but there's no plan here. The idea of just blanket fairness only.

[Pat]

You have mean anything.

[Sam Cedar]

They don't have any forcing Americans.

[Pat]

Dude, the guy's done more aggressive tax 60 days than the last previous four presidents and not including him.

[Sam Cedar]

And I hope the courts inhibit what he's doing.

[Vinnie]

Yeah, Sam, that's where you go.

[D]

Just to build on what Pat was saying. Apple promising to invest 500 billion, SoftBank, Oracle 500 billion, Nvidia, TSMC, the tariffs 100 billion, 200 billion, Meta 500 billion. Eli Lilly 27 billion. Johnson & Johnson, DMAX, CMA, CGM, Stellantis, GM, Hyundai, the list goes on. All these companies are basically saying we're going to bring back manufacturing jobs to America. Bringing back jobs will stimulate the economy. Isn't that good for America?

[Pat]

Part of why I respect Sam Cedar is the father. Let me tell you why I respect.

[Sam Cedar]

Sand can be helpful.

[Pat]

Here's what I respect.

[Sam Cedar]

We're not going to get huge banana production in the United States. Now. Your bananas are going to cost so an extra 10, 20, hundreds of billions of dollars.

[Pat]

But he's not going to give you credit. He's not. You don't understand. He just said earlier, I'm not going to give my money to private corporations.

[D]

Okay, gotcha.

[Pat]

He just told you earlier.

[Sam Cedar]

Not going to give it to Clear at the airport.

[Pat]

No, no. You said private TSA pre.

[Sam Cedar]

Why would I give it to the.

[Pat]

Go back and play what you exactly said. This is recorded. So for me, to me, I'm already at a point that for, you know, you, you, I ask you if it's the same, if those numbers are accurate, do you support it? No, I would go, okay, so no matter what Trump does, you're not going to know.

[Sam Cedar]

I would support targeted tariffs.

[Pat]

If trillions of dollars are going to be invested in the US economy to create jobs, you don't support that.

[Sam Cedar]

What's that?

[Pat]

If trillions of dollars of Money is going to be invested into our economy to create jobs. You don't support that. You want that money to go to the 10 million illegal immigrants that came here. That was open order on the Biden. That's what you're saying. And by the way, the fact that you're open about it and you're honest about it, great.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay.

[Pat]

At least you're not playing games. At least you're saying that's who I am. I would much rather give my money to TSA because it's a government entity. Then clear. It's clear. It's private. I would much rather give my jobs to illegal immigrants than give the job.

[Sam Cedar]

Clear is also like double the price.

[Pat]

It is at least now you're changing.

[Sam Cedar]

How the argument I even had a problem to be honest with you. Paying TSA pre.

[Pat]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

Because it is sort of just creates two tiers.

[Pat]

65.

[D]

Would you be comfortable if there was no clear and no TSA PreCheck and everyone just had to do be exactly the same, just everyone tsa. I mean would you be comfortable with that?

[Sam Cedar]

Comfortable in this? I mean the way that it works.

[D]

There's no paying for anything. There's no clear.

[Sam Cedar]

I do think there's no to people everyone just afford to pay that they have to wait in line and that rich people get to fly through. I, I, I, I do struggle.

[D]

Did you fly first class on the way here?

[Sam Cedar]

No.

[D]

Have you ever flown first class?

[Sam Cedar]

Back in my show business days.

[D]

What an elitist you are. Have you ever flown private?

[Sam Cedar]

They would pay.

[D]

Have you ever flown private?

[Pat]

No.

[D]

So everyone should be the same. Everyone should just do tsa. Everyone should fly economy. It's very unfair if some people I.

[Sam Cedar]

Think are doing better than I think we can.

[D]

I get it now.

[Sam Cedar]

I get it now that it is a little unfair that money will get you through that line at the airport which is like supposed to be mass communication. I mean mass transportation. Yeah, I do think.

[D]

Do you only take the regular basic Uber.

[Sam Cedar]

Do I only take the right basic Uber Uber Lyft.

[D]

Do you only take. Do you never use the black. You never use the the SUV I.

[Sam Cedar]

Did to come here. That was the one you said.

[D]

Oh, so you won't pay out of pocket, but if someone will pay for you.

[Vinnie]

But wait, there's one dude, you're a straight up communist.

[D]

I love it.

[Vinnie]

Hold on. There's one thing that you said that.

[D]

Respect the fact that you're this, you're here. You're just espousing socialist communist ideas. Massive respect for you coming here. You can embrace it.

[Vinnie]

The one thing that kind of just brushed over. No. Is you saying that you hoped that these judges keep interfering with Trump's agenda, which is you're basically cheering for unelected bureaucrats to go against the will of the people. Like you're hearing yourself. That's not democracy. That's a power grab. So you're happy with all the judges and all the law firms? Yeah. You're cool with that? So if that happens to your guy.

[Sam Cedar]

I am cool with judges appointed by Bush and Obama and Biden and Trump stopping the unelected bureaucrat Elon Musk from shutting down key functions of our government. Yes.

[Vinnie]

Okay. Our government has been broken for, like, what has anybody done to fix any of the problem? All the money going, all the everything. The fact that you're happy with them trying to. Sam, this is the will of the people. How many? 70 some million people? You could laugh all you want, but you're happy with judges interfering with what the President of the United States has been tasked to do. He has a mandate and he's kicking ass. And I feel.

[Sam Cedar]

Sam, I will quote from Elon Musk. This is a referendum on Trump. This is a referendum on Doge. This is a referendum on Musk. And two nights ago, he got clobbered in Wisconsin, and he was there on the ground in front of a big American flag, telling lies about Social Security and the American people in Wisconsin. Not all. Not all. 60%. 60% of the people in Wisconsin, this purple state, basically said, go home. Enough so that Trump has to leak that he's gonna go. He's gonna get rid of Musk and kick him out. I don't think he actually will.

[Vinnie]

I don't think so.

[Sam Cedar]

But he feels. He felt the sting enough that he realizes he has to do that because Doge and Musk and I suggest Trump, very unpopular. I mean, obviously, we're talking a margin, right? Because there's going to be 45% of people who are going to be in favor of whoever the Democrat is, and 45% who are going to be in favor of whoever the Republican is. But on the margins. Yes. Six months ago it was different, but today it's very different, I think.

[Vinnie]

But, Sam. And here's the thing. Okay, so Trump is done after this, right? Four years, he's gone. You promise he's going to be gone. Like he likes to troll all you guys, and you guys all lose your minds. And I haven't. But what? What? Here's my thing again. And this is going back to the beginning. What are you guys offering? What is your side saying? Okay, besides the Trump. Evil Hitler. Because that should then work. Your side literally called him Hitler and the guy got shot in the freaking head. Okay, that's your party now. He's going to be gone. Okay, what. Who are you guys going to put up? Who is it? Because it looks like it's going to be Gavin Newsom. He's podcast all this. Shifting to the other side, you guys, literally.

[Sam Cedar]

I would bet you any amount of money that it's not Gavin Newsom.

[Vinnie]

It's going to be the front runner for this upcoming.

[Sam Cedar]

I will bet you any amount of money that the nominee in 2028 will not be be Gavin Newsome.

[Vinnie]

That nominee or is it going to be running?

[D]

Guys, place your bet.

[Vinnie]

Yeah, 100 bucks.

[Sam Cedar]

100 bucks.

[D]

That's all.

[Sam Cedar]

Let's do 500 bucks.

[Vinnie]

Looking for 100.

[D]

Don't be a Adam.

[Vinnie]

Shut your mouth. I bet you 500. All the freaking time.

[D]

Bet in the middle of 250.

[Pat]

Right?

[Vinnie]

I want to know who. Who would. Who would you think. Hold on, let me finish. In 2028, who is going. If right now. I know it's. It's a while out. Who in 2028 is going to be the front runner for the Democratic Party if it's not going to be Gavin Newsom, who that slithering snake is making the move to do it? Who is it going to be? I'm very curious.

[Sam Cedar]

I will bet you a thousand it won't be Gavin Newsom. But you stop. I don't know. I think there's a chance that. I think that, like, if I had to guess and this is not necessarily who I would support and I'm going to wait. I don't really, to be honest with you, I have spent zero time thinking about 2028, but if I had to guess, I would say somebody. No, it's absolutely true. I would say Pritzker. Whitmer.

[Pat]

Pritzker.

[Sam Cedar]

Pritzker.

[Vinnie]

Billionaire.

[D]

You're comfortable the fact that he's a billionaire?

[Sam Cedar]

No, like I say, I'm just guessing based upon, like, what I'm. I'm seeing out there. I think Buddha judge. Also not a fan. I think going to run. I think like you say Newsom's going to run, I would imagine there's going to be a couple of people in Congress who are going to run. I. You know, I don't. I don't know if we know if I could even in a list of people that I would name, I would feel that confident. That I would know who would win.

[Adam]

If you, if you cry and dead for so long.

[D]

That's funny. If you could root for one person, like, just like, I would like to see this person. Who would it be?

[Pat]

Said it earlier.

[D]

Oh, Bernie.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, no, Bernie's. I mean, too old.

[D]

He's not so aoc.

[Sam Cedar]

Is that your favorite candidate? I don't think would be. Would, would win.

[D]

So who's your person if you could.

[Sam Cedar]

Put your money honestly. That's my point.

[Vinnie]

They don't have anybody.

[Sam Cedar]

That was my point.

[Vinnie]

No, no, they have nobody.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't speak for the Democratic.

[D]

I'm asking Sam Cedar.

[Sam Cedar]

I want to.

[D]

You got to have someone in mind.

[Sam Cedar]

I think Murphy's also going to run. I want to see what people like, who shows up with what.

[D]

I'm not, I'm not even speculating. I'm asking, who would you want to see? You. No, no, I, but you don't have anybody.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah. You don't really. Yeah, I want to see who's gonna.

[D]

You're a big podcaster. You'll have one person you'd like to.

[Sam Cedar]

See to be president.

[D]

Yes.

[Sam Cedar]

It really depends, like, on.

[D]

Just give me a name.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't have, like.

[D]

How do you not have a name?

[Vinnie]

Well, that was my point. They don't have anybody, bro. That's the whole point I was making today.

[D]

I'm not asking them. I'm just saying. Sam Cedar, professional podcast pastor, progressive, democratic, socialist. You don't have one person you'd like.

[Sam Cedar]

To see, like to see as president himself?

[Vinnie]

I'd vote for Sam. That's it.

[Sam Cedar]

I mean, I'm curious, you know, I'd be curious, like, if I, I just don't know enough about, like, something like Andy Bashar.

[D]

Okay, but, but you know enough of who you like. Just say who you like.

[Sam Cedar]

Don't I? I, I, I, I don't, I don't have that kind of relationship with politicians.

[D]

You don't. You don't know their names. You don't know their names.

[Sam Cedar]

I've had on the show.

[D]

Come on, Sam, bro, do better. Just say a name and we'll move on.

[Sam Cedar]

No, I don't like her policies.

[D]

Who do you like?

[Sam Cedar]

I mean, I, I. Jim McGovern from Worcester Mountain.

[D]

There we go. Jim McGovern. Congressman, congratulations. There's our boy. Future President of the United States, Jimmy McGovern, making America.

[Pat]

Let's go to the next story to, to. I'd like to do two more. I'd like to do two.

[Sam Cedar]

He's a great, actually. Congressman.

[D]

No doubt. No doubt he's got a chance.

[Pat]

Texas high school football star.

[Sam Cedar]

You know, you should also keep an eye on Pat Ryan. I mean, there's some stuff I disagree with him on policy, but he's also pretty good up in the 18th.

[D]

All right, now you know names. I love it.

[Pat]

Texas high school football, sir. Austin Metcalf, stabbed in the heart, left to die in twin brother's arms at track meet. This is a very, very difficult story. This is the father and Vinnie. Maybe you want to preface what happened with the story.

[Vinnie]

Okay, so. So they allegedly, they went to a. A track meet.

[Pat]

Yeah.

[Vinnie]

And I guess the. The guy in the bottom said something like. Or the, the guy in the top said, hey, you're like, you're in the wrong area. He stands up, stabs that kid on the top in the heart, and the other guy runs away. And then his brother, his twin brother comes and holds him as he's taking his last breath. And. And he dies. And then this. This is the father, which is the most. This is probably one of the most humble Christian like based freaking interviews. He's getting a little bit emotional, but listen what he says about the whole situation.

[H]

Got in his brother's arms.

[Sam Cedar]

They were.

[H]

They were twins, identical twins. And his brother was holding. Holding on to him, trying to make it stop bleeding. And he died in his brother's arms. And I rushed up there and I.

[Sam Cedar]

Saw him on the.

[H]

On the gurney and I could tell they said he wasn't breathing.

[Sam Cedar]

I could see all the blood. I saw where the wound was. Austin, his father shares, was born two minutes before his twin brother, Hunter. The two inseparable. As you can imagine, Austin is being remembered as an outsider, outstanding student at Memorial High, his football team's mvp, and.

[Pat]

A young man of faith.

[Sam Cedar]

His father grappling with loss and forgiveness.

[H]

I'm not trying to judge, but what.

[Sam Cedar]

Kind of parents did this child have? What was he taught? He brought a knife to attract me.

[H]

And he murdered my son by stabbing him in the heart.

[Sam Cedar]

Heart.

[H]

The son, the guy was in the wrong place. They asked him to move and he bowed up.

[Sam Cedar]

This is murder. I don't know.

[H]

I know they have someone in custody.

[Sam Cedar]

And you know what? I already forgive this person already.

[H]

Already.

[Sam Cedar]

God takes care of things.

[H]

God's going to take care of me. God's going to take care of my family.

[Pat]

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[Sam Cedar]

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[Pat]

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[Sam Cedar]

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[Pat]

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[Adam]

I think this is one of the most amazing testimonies I've seen in a long, long time. And I think there's something there's two things here. And he's asking without condemnation just the question I think we all should be asking, what was up with the parents? Is this a single parent household? What sort of guidance was there? What sort of enablement are we giving? And to stand up and say, I forgive this. Most people won't understand. They say, I can't forgive him. I want him to go to prison. Well, maybe that's what you want. Maybe that's what you're gonna get because there's consequences for crime. And if this young man, the one that's photographed there in the mug shot that's being circulated, if that's the guy and this is what he's done and the witnesses confirm it, then he's gonna go to trial and the that's all going to shake out and he's going to go to prison for a long, long time. And I think consequences are different from forgiveness. And the forgiveness this guy has in his heart, which appears to be led by Christian values, is tremendous. And what it means is I'm not going to let eternal bitterness here hurt me. Is he going to hate what happened? Absolutely. And the loss he's got for his son? The grief has just begun. But he's also saying, I'm turning to the Lord to remove my bitterness so that I can go forward and live. And there's going to be consequences here on earth. This kid, there's two tragedies here. The tragedy is we have one young man, apparently, if this is the guy who's going to go to prison for a long, long time, so he's going to be gone to his friends and family, just as this young man that was murdered is gone to his family. And the question is, what. What was the core of the belief structure and the life support and the examples and the mentoring and big brothers and people around. That leaves this guy. Why do you bring a knife to an event? Because you have intent and you're going to show people and you're going to do things. This is all well documented in the failures of what goes on. And I have a lot of. Man, I just got so much respect for the father at this time of grief to be speaking this way. But I've also got it. It says you get what you want, you know, you get what you vote for and you get what you want in this country. And if you want things that are going to help, you know, kids develop differently and better, let's get behind that. But there's a flaw somewhere in the heart of this kid that, number one, he. He's carrying a weapon that he intended to use, apparently, and he used it.

[Pat]

What are your thoughts on that?

[Adam]

Let's go look at that.

[Sam Cedar]

I think it's. I mean, anything involving, like, children is difficult. As a parent, that's always, like, difficult to see. And I think, you know, very admirable. The father's response to it. It's sort of reminiscent of, like, what they call restorative justice, which I think has application in some areas and in others, you know, a little bit more difficult. But, you know, that's. That's what you're talking about when you talk about, like, that type of forgiveness and making sure that the victims of the crime or the family of the victims can. Can move on and live their life without being stuck in that. In that moment, you know, to the extent that you can. I can't even imagine losing a child or a sibling, frankly. But I think it's a little bit exploitive to assume that this is such a. This is necessarily a political issue. I mean, yes, I don't think people should be carrying weapons in public. I don't know where this took place, what the gun laws are or what. But. But yes, I am against people having weapons in public. I don't know why this guy brought the knife in his pocket when he left the house. I don't know what goes on at his house. I don't know if the guy was in a. Was on the other team or, you know, I don't know any of the details about it. So I wouldn't, you know, make some type of, like, larger political statement that this has something to do with electoral politics. I mean, and we have a society that in many ways elevates violence. And, you know, and I think you could argue the violence that we pay for, you know, in other countries and get back pictures on your TikTok every day of what the, our weapons have done. Certainly MLK said, you know, every bomb that we, we drop in Vietnam blows up here. And the idea behind that was that like, you know, you cannot have a society that condones waging violence and not expect that violence to end up being self inflicted. So, Adam.

[D]

Well, it's a sad story. I mean, hurt people, hurt people. I think it's entirely appropriate to speculate who raised this young man. You're 17 years old. You're bringing a knife to a track meet. Someone asks you to, hey, get out of the way in the wrong place and you end up stabbing them in the heart. I mean, what's going on with this person? What type of emotional pain, what type of anger, what type of hurt was this person already dealing with that this was how he enacted his revenge for being told to move at a track meet? You know, Texas has the death penalty if, if I, if I'm correct. So I don't know what's going to happen with this kid. He's 17 years old. I'm sure he'll be tried as an adult. My opinion, but my message is to one person and one person only. It's to the twin brother who's still alive, Hunter. And I can't even imagine what this guy is going through right now because the father took the high road, obviously, probably a man of faith, a Christian, and I understand his perspective. The twin brother who looks identical, I believe I can't even imagine the hurt, the pain, the grief. Every time he looks in the mirror, he's going to see the brother that was killed and died in his arms. You know, oftentimes people say, hey, I'm praying for you. I'm praying for you. Genuinely. I think anyone that runs into this guy in his life, give this guy the biggest bear hug you possibly can and help this guy cope. I recently was in New York because I had to go to a funeral for one of my closest friends, younger brothers, and they were incredibly tight. And to see the hurt in the family and the pain in the family and the hurt in my good friend's heart because he lost his brother was, was so tough to deal with. And all I could do was give him a hug and say, I'm there for him. So Hunter, the, the brother who's still alive. You're living for two now. My message to you would be, like, honor your brother, live for him, and make the most out of this life, because you got two people to represent for. So God bless.

[Pat]

Yeah, that was a very good take, Adam, on a story like this. You hear this? It breaks my heart. As a parent, you don't have anything to say. And for the father to react that way, I mean, give me away, break. Like there's not more class to be shown than to handle that, you know, I don't see the story everywhere. I don't see people talking about it. I don't see it, you know, where it's being publicized or talked about. You did say. You said this. It's. What word did you use? You said, I don't think it's a story for us to use as anything. You said something about political. I don't think there's political or anything to it. The question that a lot of people would ask is, what would have happened if this was the flip side? Who would be covering it right now?

[Vinnie]

Oh, my God, everybody.

[Pat]

Where would it be right now? Where would the story be right now? That's the divisiveness of what America's sick of. That's the divisiveness. That father gave a message that's a unifying message. That father gave a message that is a example to other fathers that you try to. You're like, oh, my God, the standard. But to me, when we think about why America flipped in certain places and why maybe mainstream media has been getting a black eye just as much as the Democratic Party, just as much as the U.S. government, just as much as CIA, just as much as FBI is, because the American people are just sick of it. They're fed up. They want to go back to living a normal life, and they want these divisive messages to slow down and find ways for us to sit down and have a conversation together. Sam, there's probably less than 10% of policies you and I would agree with. The more and more I listen to you speak and say the things that you say and your approach to it. I sit there and I say, I can't understand this guy, why he believes what he does. But you know what I will say? Tremendous respect for you to come here. You came, you gave your arguments, did your thing, you leave. This is the second time we've done this. Not a lot of your peers do this often. And they all get invited. They all get invited.

[Sam Cedar]

I.

[Pat]

But they don't come.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't know that I have any peers.

[Pat]

No, what I mean is from people on the Left, you got 1.76 million subscribers. You put up 26,000 views. You are somebody that in your space you speak and you have an audience that listens to you. They like to see your perspective. But a lot of people on the left, when we invited, for whatever reason, they don't show up. And I got, it's a long for.

[Sam Cedar]

Me it's just a straight shot down.

[Pat]

New York respect for the guy to come in, sit down, have the conversation. And everybody that's watching this, whether you agree with them or not, you have to respect that he came here because that to me is a very, very high level of respect of anybody that's willing to have the conversation. If you do that, we need more of that and let the American people decide and say I don't agree with Pat. I think Pat, Pat is wrong here. I don't agree with Sam. I think I agree with. I think I agree with that. I think I. No problem. You get to decide and we get to have the conversation.

[Sam Cedar]

But I want to at least return the compliment to you because I, according to Tim Pool was blacklisted by all the right wing shows two years ago when you had me on and I think, you know, I, I think it was my opportunity to say like I can be well behaved sitting here and we can get into arguments and whatnot. You are the only show that would do it now. Tim has since sort of oddly reversed and I was on his show in November, but after I think he sat right here and said that I was a grifter but, but be that as me. So I appreciate that and I appreciate the fancy car that took me here.

[D]

Next time we're just put your economy feel free. Sam Publicly, please come back again, would you a year from now.

[Vinnie]

What do you mean? Even in four years with the bet.

[Sam Cedar]

Whatever that 100 bucks we should charge interest on that.

[Pat]

So tomorrow we have Terrence Howard. That's podcast is going to go up. Very interesting conversation. I brought a guy that was a 17 year he's been. He's currently with NASA. Like he had to give a disclaimer and say my opinions today are not the opinions of NASA. So we brought a physicist that works at NASA to sit down while we had. Terrence, you have had a lot of different conversations. Play this intro. This will go out tomorrow morning 9:00am Go ahead, Rob.

[Sam Cedar]

After I'm done here today, I'm going to put online the equations necessary to have unlimited energy just to Say you to the world.

[Pat]

Interesting. Okay, you guys have never met and you're currently working for NASA.

[Sam Cedar]

That the. That's correct. I don't have the degrees he has. And guess what he doesn't have? He doesn't have an understanding of how the universe works.

[Pat]

You don't think Eric Langston.

[Sam Cedar]

He has no understanding. Entire quantum mechanics build on this model is wrong.

[Pat]

He's.

[Sam Cedar]

Bring another dimension. Okay.

[Pat]

If another country gets their hands on.

[Sam Cedar]

This, it's an end of America.

[Pat]

What have you found?

[Sam Cedar]

If I have to go to China, they won't hesitate a moment to use linchpin, which they're forcing me to do. Do you know that they took away my passport?

[Pat]

Why does this matter?

[Sam Cedar]

Puffy invited me.

[Pat]

Are you saying what I think you're saying?

[Sam Cedar]

He's like. I think he's trying to you. That's what my assistant said. I was like, oh, if it's wrong.

[Terrence Howard]

You'Ll never hear from me again.

[Sam Cedar]

I'll walk away. But if I'm right, oh, my God.

[Pat]

Let me tell you.

[Vinnie]

So you guys talked about everything.

[Pat]

It was so entertaining. By the way, here's the crazy part, guys. You know who I'm talking about? A few guys.

[Sam Cedar]

The crazy part, huh?

[Pat]

By the way, it's. It's. You gotta. It's very interesting because, you know, he was on Rogan, the first one. It was very interesting.

[D]

Yeah, of course.

[Pat]

And then they do the one with Eric Weinstein, the Four Hour, which I thought it was fascinating to watch the exchange. But for whatever reason, the. The gentleman, Dr. Yu from NASA, didn't fully disagree with some of the things he was talking about, which was very weird for me. And they had never met, so he didn't find him. We didn't tell him that he was going to be here until he came here. The first time he met Dr. Yu was two minutes before we went live.

[Vinnie]

Yeah, I was there. I saw him.

[Pat]

Yeah, that's right. So anyways, by the way, here's the crazy part. Terrence Howard's on my neck. I said, terrence, all these people that ask me stuff, I'm not doing it no more. I want them to ask you. So if anybody wants to ask any questions of Terrence Howard, download the admin act. Rob, you have the QR code?

[Sam Cedar]

Do we have the lower third right now?

[Pat]

Okay, so that's in the lower third. If you see it, just go. You can send him a minute and whatever questions, thoughts and stuff that you have. He's officially on my neck. You can ask him the question. All right? Sam Cedar's YouTube channel is going to be also below in the description. If you want to give it a sub and follow his content, we're going to put that there as well. God bless everybody. Take care. Bye bye. Bye bye. Thanks.