← The School of Greatness
The School of Greatness
The 3 AM Truth That Cost Him $14.5 Million | Matthew McConaughey
01:35:12
Academy Award winner Matthew McConaughey, author of the memoir Greenlights and founder of the just keep livin foundation, joins Lewis Howes to discuss his 20-month departure from Hollywood, the goals he handwrote in 1992, and the spiritual reckoning he experienced during a solo trip through the Amazon.
Loading summary
Transcript316 lines
- [00:01]
A
As a loyal listener of this show, you're always challenging yourself to grow, to be better, to keep learning. And Southern New Hampshire University can help. Southern New Hampshire University offers over 200 career focused degree programs online. Plus, Southern New Hampshire University has some of the lowest online tuition rates in the us so balancing school, work and life actually feels achievable and affordable too. Find your degree at snhu. Edu Greatness. That's snhu. Edu Greatness. You know, people sometimes invest in something that seems incredible at first, but then it doesn't live up to the hype. Like when everyone was convinced NFTs were the future and people were buying them for thousands of dollars and now they barely have any value. Marketers know that feeling. They optimize for numbers that look great, like impressions, but then they don't see revenue. LinkedIn has a word for that. Bullspend. Instead, you can get the highest roas of major ad networks with LinkedIn ads. Cut the bull. Spend advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com you know that old saying, it isn't what you say, it's how you say it. I've always believed that anyone can talk about ambition or determination, but the real question is how you show up. Your presence, your energy, the way you move through the world. That's what makes the difference. Lending power, poise and performance. Just like you, the Range Rover Sport was designed to make an impact with a distinctly British design. The Range Rover Sport is built to take on roads anywhere. Free from unnecessary details. Its raw power and agility really shine. It combines a dynamic sporting personality with elegance and agility to deliver an instinctive drive. And its assertive stance hints at an equally refined driving performance. Defining modern luxury, the Range Rover Sport features the latest innovations in comfort and convenience. The cabin air purification system alongside active noise cancellation creates a new level of quality, comfort and control. Terrain Response 2 offers seven terrain modes to choose from, fine tuning the vehicle for challenging roads ahead. And it's available with a choice of powerful engines, including a plug in hybrid with an estimated range of 48 miles. The range Rover event is on now. Explore Enhanced offers@range rover.com the School of Greatness is presented by Amazon. Guys, we got to talk about your secret late night Internet searches. You know the ones. Bumpy leg rash, hair loss. Trying to figure out your body by endlessly searching for answers. We all do it and it never works. Thankfully, there's Amazon Health AI. It can connect your symptoms with your medical history and it can even get you care 24. 7. So call off the search. Amazon Health AI is here. Healthcare just got less painful. Everywhere I go, airports, events, walking down the street, people stop me and say, louis, this show got me through one of the hardest seasons of my life. And it's one of the coolest things when people come up to me. So if you see me, please come up and say hi and let me know how this show, the School of Greatness, has impacted you. It lights me up because our mission at Greatness Media is to impact 100 million lives every single week. So if today's conversation hits home for you, do me a favor and push the follow button right now. It means that the next conversation will be delivered to you and will find you exactly when you need it. Again, thank you so much for being here and listening to the School of Greatness. Make sure to follow right now to stay up to date on the latest and greatest. I'm so grateful that you have continued to step out from your industry of being, you know, a world class actor and creative artist and being expressing yourself more right, Sharing your art, your poetry, your stories, your lessons and your truths. So it's been a beautiful journey to watch you continue to impact lives not only on screen, but also off as yourself. So I'm really grateful that you're doing this.
- [03:53]
B
Cool, thank you. I'm glad it's landed that way. Yeah, for you, it's been challenging and gratifying for me, but that it started with the book. You've written books. You know, what I, what I wanted to do is when I'm acting, I'm going, I have five filters between my raw expression and what you see on screen, someone else's script, someone else's character, someone else behind the camera, someone else directing, someone else editing. That's five filters between me and the raw expression. What wrote the book was I said, I want to get rid of some of those filters. Now. Book is one filter. It's still a written word. Yes, but in the ultimate is like when people do stand up or performances or like this, we're live. This is no filter. And so that's what I wanted to do, where I could direct my own story, be the main character in my own story, edit it through my lens and it stuck in a way which was nice to hear the reverb and hear people here come back to me about what they got from it, questions they still have about it and how it helped them along their own path in some ways.
- [04:58]
A
Did you have any fear doing this?
- [05:00]
B
Yeah.
- [05:01]
A
Really?
- [05:02]
B
Yeah.
- [05:02]
A
What was the biggest fear?
- [05:04]
B
I don't like looking back over my shoulder, man. I, I mean I haven't even seen all my movies really. I like making them more than like watching, you know. So to look back over 50 years of my life, 40 years of writings was a scary proposition for me because I feared I'd be in after some embarrassments. I feared I'd be shamed about, feel shameful about some things. And I always had, I'd always, I've always written and had the journals been my, my excuse was, oh, you know, post mortem, maybe Camilla, my wife will dig that and read them.
- [05:40]
A
Right.
- [05:41]
B
Oh, this is worth putting out. It was always an excuse, right. And finally I got the confidence to go, you know what? No, go, go away and take those boxes of journals and those chests of journals and go see what you got. And I looked at them and I was embarrassed. Yeah.
- [05:56]
A
What was the thing that you're most embarrassed about?
- [05:59]
B
Being a wise thinking I knew stuff. Proclaiming I knew stuff when I would contradict myself right after or I had, you know, times where I would say, oh very. I look back at the very arrogant. Very, you know, But I, but I, I come to, I've come to understand now that I was doing that to find an identity and revel. It's youth. And the revolutionaries of youth do that. You try it out. Let's test it. I know this. It fails. Okay. To the next. Something I don't think we should forget. As we get older, we just start to understand context and innuendo. And two things can be true at the same time when you're younger. It's black and it's white. And so I had things that I was embarrassed about that. And what happened after about 10 days of writing the book and going through some embarrassment and quite a bit of shame where I also didn't walk the walk but talk the talk to myself. Even I started to notice that. Oh well, actually if you wouldn't have been that sort of all knowing and what I would call arrogant at this point, you wouldn't have put yourself in the position to learn better or to get humbled or to find it. Oh, I thought I had it figured out. I didn't. So I was like, okay. So all of a sudden the embarrassment turned into chuckles. So now I'm starting to laugh at myself. You stepped again, man. You talked, you didn't back it up. You ate crow. And that rhythm happened a lot through, through my life. And I think it Happens to all of us in certain ways. And I think one of the things that people got from the book that I got from writing it was people come to me and said, look, I'm taking more risk now. And I think that's. That's part of it. When we fail, which is why we, so many of us don't take as many risks. It's never really. Not never, but almost always never as really bad as we thought it was going to be.
- [07:50]
A
When we fail at the risk.
- [07:51]
B
Yeah, yeah. When we fail at doing. It's never that. The. The letdown's never, in a real measure, as bad as we thought it was going to be. And the people that are going, nana, Nana, baby, they're on the sidelines for a reason. You play football. They're over there, they're in the bleachers with the whistle in their mouth for a reason. But the ones that are on the field trying out stuff with you, are they right there next to you going, hey, man, me too. I blew it over here. I blew it here. But thanks for taking the shot. Thanks for trying. That's what we're doing. And I think a lot, that's something that a lot of people got from the book. So the shame and the embarrassment turned into humor. And then I noticed that I consistently stepped in the same path just quite a few times. I think I've evolved somewhat, but I'm still working on the piles of them.
- [08:36]
A
Stepping in, when did you feel like you were the most wounded? Wounded, like internally wounded, where? Maybe you had. You thought you had it all figured out or you felt like I'm successful, but really on the inside, maybe you felt like you were full of, you know.
- [08:51]
B
Oh, well, there's been a few. But I'll say, look, Australia, the year I had there, you know, that story from the book, that was a really tough year, but that was not a year when I thought I had it figured out. That was a big year. The early questions of youth are why, why, why, why? You learn some things, you start to define your hows and whens and your where's and. But when I was rolling in my career later on in life and was rolling rom coms in, in, in, in, in Hollywood, I was enjoying them, but I didn't feel like they were feeding me back. I didn't feel like they were the right kind of challenge for me. And it came to me at a time when I, Camilla and I had fallen in love and she was pregnant with our first son. So all of a sudden, life's vital man. It's like real, right? My laughs are louder, my tears are. Or wetter. My. My joy is bigger, my pain is deeper. Rom, that's not where ROM coms are built. ROM coms are built to be buoyant. Up here, keep it light, bounce cloud to cloud. Don't go so deep or so high. They're built that way on purpose. But my life was extremely. Getting extremely dramatic and I liked it. And I would, I said, I started to feel like, well, what am I doing in my career? I remember saying this was, am I just an entertainer? And I made sure to look myself in the mirror and go, and if you are, is there anything wrong with being just an entertainer? That's okay too. But I, I just wanted to see if my career could challenge the vitality of my life that I was living at the time. So I tried to find dramas that I wanted to do that more represented the man I was becoming. Hollywood was saying, no, thank you. You stay in your lane, McConaughey. We got other people that do this, so I'll take a. I'll take a massive pay cut. We said, no, thank you. Stay in your lane. So because I couldn't do what I wanted to do, I pulled up and quit doing what I was doing. And I took a one way ticket out of Hollywood, not knowing if it'd be a one way ticket or a return ticket, but not knowing how long I was going to be dry with that work.
- [10:56]
A
So 20 months, right?
- [10:57]
B
20 months without. Without any work.
- [10:59]
A
That's unbelievable. When was the time where you felt like. Or when you felt like people stopped talking about you or you weren't as relevant or they stopped calling you for auditions or.
- [11:08]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [11:09]
A
So the first weren't in the gossip news or whatever?
- [11:11]
B
Hell no, I wasn't. And I remember I'm coming from Hollywood at that time I was living in Malibu, living on the beach, and my rom com run was parlayed with paparazzi getting shots of me on the beach all the time. So McConaughey shirtless on the beach was synonymous with McConaughey and the ROM coms. And it was like, his life is his rom coms. Rom coms is his life. Right? So I moved with Camilla to Texas and we. And no beaches there, no paparazzi there. The first six months, all I got offered was rom coms. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So then they said, okay, we got the message. They quit offering ROM com. So what? They offer nothing. Wow. I call it eight months. Had ne. He says, buddy, he hadn't heard from me because I hadn't heard about you call it 10 months. He goes, man, I even heard your name in two.
- [12:01]
A
Wow.
- [12:01]
B
I called a year. He's like, buddy, hadn't even heard your name. No one's interested. So I'm like, okay. I start thinking about, do I need to start another, Find another career vocation?
- [12:16]
A
No. Oh, yeah, really, like, stop acting on.
- [12:20]
B
Well, I didn't know. I knew I had already made the covenant with myself and my wife that I was not going back. Was I wobbly at that time? Was I looking for something to achieve and find some significance and purpose? Right. Thankfully, I've got a young child on the way or was probably maybe at 12 months born, just born at that time. So that's given me real resonance and purpose to keep me at least focused somewhere. Focused on something I could rely on being, having meaning and value. But still I needed my own personal thing to get off to my own craft. And I, and I. And I didn't have it. Was I going to do so, you know, freaking making wind chimes, you know what I mean? But seriously, like, and I've said this before, the old bottle of my favorite spirit started looking a little bit better earlier in the day because the days were long, bro. Days were getting long.
- [13:11]
A
Noon, you started one of Monday and
- [13:12]
B
Saturday were melded into each other. And you know what a lifelong Saturdays can do to us, Make a tyrant. So I was looking for.
- [13:21]
A
But you were on the top, man.
- [13:23]
B
You were like, I was the top rom coms. Yeah, that was my. I, I owned that lane and I was the go to rom com guy. But I was not going to go back and do that. I'd made the truth that I had that 3am Truth that hit me and stuck with me for months before I made the decision to step out of Hollywood. I knew it was true. It was a quiet truth. And tears have been shed on my wife's shoulder with myself going, this is a decision we're making in my soul. We're going to make it and stick to it. And no matter.
- [13:49]
A
I think you talk about, you know, I think there was like someone offered you 15 million or somewhere around there,
- [13:53]
B
right around months, testing you 18 and
- [13:57]
A
it starts testing you. It's like, oh, 5 million, 10 million, 12 million. And then you said it starts to,
- [14:02]
B
well, I'll tell you the story. So. But a year goes by, nothing. And I said, I'm starting to think about different vocations. But I'm going to stick to my guns. 15 months, 18 months. Another ROM com comes in, but my agent says, this one's really good. And check out this offer. Hey, off with an $8 million offer. Let me read that now. Before first year, I wouldn't even read no, right? No to the genre. No, But I read it pretty good, man. No, thank you. They come back, $10 million offer. I said, no, thank you. They come back with a 12 million dollar offer. I said, no, thank you. They come back with a 14.5 million dollar offer for the same script. Right. That they sent first with the 8 million dollar offer. And what I say, let me read this again. And I read it again. And it was funnier. Yeah, I read it again. It was funnier. It was. I could see myself in that character. I was like, this could be a pretty good idea, buddy. What are you. But I ultimately said no. And when I said no to the 14.5, I think what it did is it sent an invisible sort of lightning bolt through Hollywood execs that Makai just turned down 14.5. He hasn't worked in 18 months and he just turned down 14.5. What's he up to?
- [15:24]
A
Interesting.
- [15:25]
B
What's that guy doing? He's on to something. To turn that down. It shifted. It was like, he's definitely not bluffing. Okay, so one of two things could happen. Okay, thanks for your run in Hollywood, McConaughey. See you next life. Or what did happen is two months later, I get a call for the Lincoln Lawyer Killer Joe and, And, And Mud and True Detective, Dallas Buyers Club, all these things. And so what happened is I became I unbranded in those eight. In those eight 20 months. Where is he now? He just turned down the 14 5. Wait, this guy's making affirmative action. That, that, that isn't a recessive move. That's like to Hollywood. That's like you're doing what?
- [16:15]
A
Right.
- [16:15]
B
What do you got going? So all of a sudden, I became a new good idea for possibly these dramas I was looking for because I've been gone so long. Interesting, because you didn't. I wasn't recorded on the beach. Shirtless mountain boat. Right. I wasn't in your theater, your home in a rom com each night. That's Persona non grata for a while. Well, when you're gone long enough, you either forgotten or you become a new novel. Good idea maybe for what you were looking for. And that's what fortunately happened to me.
- [16:45]
A
I love this because you talk about planting gardens to attract butterflies. As opposed to chasing them. You also talk about this idea of being the target versus the target draws the arrow. Yes.
- [16:58]
B
Yeah.
- [17:00]
A
So is that kind of what you were doing? It's like you were. You were, you know, tending to your own garden, your own inner world. You're developing yourself, shedding the old skin and becoming a new during that time and allowing the right things to come to you.
- [17:13]
B
Well, I was definitely doing the first, but I couldn't rely on the second. Okay. I was definitely tending my own garden.
- [17:21]
A
How do we learn to have that trust and the faith that there might be something great coming to us when we draw a line in the sand and we say, we're not going back to this personality we had, these habits, these behaviors, this industry that we were in that served us so well for so long. But now I'm saying no to that old way of being and trusting that something greater is going to wash over me. How do we trust? Because it could have not happened for you.
- [17:46]
B
It could not happen. We might not be sitting here right now. I might not have gone on to do the work that I've been doing since then. I might not have the courage to go write the book. I might be that high school football coach that I was thinking about being. Yeah. I might be that wildlife guide in Africa that I was thinking about being. I might be that conductor of a symphony that I was thinking about becoming and not sitting here. How do we trust it? I think, look to. When the decision came to me, it came. I was. I was in a position to hear the truth. I was. I was in. I was in a. My. My heart was looking and my mind were looking, and I was giving myself room to cut out all the outside stimulus.
- [18:29]
A
Yes.
- [18:29]
B
And you know how when those truths come, they land like a lightning bolt and a butterfly at the same time. But you know they're true, and they're true for you. When they land and you go, oh, that was a direct line. Whether you're religious or you call it the prime mover, the waymaker, the universe, whatever you want to call it, that was a direct line. And that. That's true to me. And then comes the hard part. Trust in that truth. When the sun rises and you're back in the middle of the masses, they're all going, hey, try this. What are you doing? They weren't there for that truth last night. Their truth that they think of you was the same when you had the day before, but now your truth is different. So trust in that. And not letting your onion get peeled because that's what happens. It starts to strip away. You know, it's, it's, it's why, I think, why people have, you know, church once a week because you're good on Monday, but come Friday you don't need to. You know what I mean? You start to forget the things, you know. That's why we need to update, to maintain ourselves with our mental health, spiritual health and physical health. Understanding is one thing, but then keeping it in action and trusting in it and having the patience to trust into another. So it hit me in a clear way that I knew it was true. I had someone in my life, Camilla, that was close to me, that I could share and understood it and understood in the way that I shared it with her. She was like, okay, I hear you. You're not negotiating. You're not asking me a question. You're sharing with me the truth for you. So I can be by your search and say this, so I can be by your side and make sure you stick to it. Because I know how important this is to you.
- [20:08]
A
What was that truth that you heard or that came to you at that time?
- [20:12]
B
That I needed to do something different. More. I needed more to fulfill me at that point. That while I was happy that I was getting off so much to the vitality in my real life, more so than my work. I even looked in there and said, well, it's got to be one way or the other. Congratulations. Because a lot of times I've had the times where you're getting off to your work more than your real life.
- [20:37]
A
Right, right.
- [20:38]
B
But I was like, I believe my work can challenge the vitality. I hope that my life is more vital than my work for as long as possible, please. I hope, I hope it is, but I think I can get my work to challenge the vitality and make me sweat my boots in the right way. In the same way that my life is to give me the joy and the pain and all that, the way my life is. And so I was like, well, we'll bet on it and don't. And make it non negotiable. Make one bet and stick to it. Wow. And, you know, sometimes it's endurance, so trust in that. I was never, I never questioned going back on my decision.
- [21:15]
A
No matter, no matter how much money.
- [21:17]
B
No, no.
- [21:18]
A
20 million, 30 million, 100 million. You'll be like, it's just not worth it.
- [21:20]
B
No. Because as the number, trust me, when that number went from 8 to 10, 12 to 14.5, I started getting a little.
- [21:29]
A
Oh, maybe I Got a little.
- [21:30]
B
I was like, here we go. Here we go.
- [21:32]
A
You want me.
- [21:33]
B
It didn't go from 8 to 6 to 4 to 2, right?
- [21:35]
A
Went up.
- [21:36]
B
It went up. And I was like, okay, I got. I'm getting leverage in this. And I realized when I turned on the 14 5, I said, I got a sneaky suspicion this may give me a little leverage, because that's a big
- [21:48]
A
number and that's, you know, there's a small community of the agents and the managers and the directors in Hollywood, and everyone's got to hear that you turn this down.
- [21:56]
B
I was sure hoping so, yeah. And I believe they did. Right now, Hollywood could come tell me how much my hypothesis on that is true. But I've heard from quite a few whispers like, no, when you turn that down, that was. People went, double took and went, he did what? Right. Which I don't know, made me more attractive in a new way, you know, or maybe, you know, when someone does that and you go like, oh, they got their own thing going. They didn't just remove themselves and sitting out there wandering in the desert, they're onto something. I don't know what it is, but you can become more attractive in a way. I think I became more attractive for that reason. They're like, you turn up 14.5. He's got something going on. He's got a point of view. He's doing this for a reason. He's got some purpose with which he's doing this.
- [22:47]
A
The school of greatness is brought to you in partnership with Airbnb. And when you travel for a big event, you realize how much the right space matters. It's so important. A game, a conference, a tournament, a weekend that you've been looking forward to for months. After a full day out, it feels so good to come back to a place that feels comfortable, grounded, and more like home. That's one of the things I appreciate about Airbnb, because people are traveling for meaningful moments all the time. And having a space that feels warm and welcoming can make the entire experience better. And it also makes me think about how many moments are happening in our own cities all the time, whether it be a game or a tournament or a conference or a big weekend that can bring so many people into town. And for anyone who has a space that they've thought about, sharing those big event weekends can be a great opportunity to list it on Airbnb and also earn some extra income. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much@airbnb.com host I am big on simple daily habits that support how you show up and this is about building a routine that helps you eat, sleep, thrive, repeat. Nature's Bounty is all about helping you thrive. From your head to your heels, you can support your heart, bone, nerve and muscle health with magnesium glycinate. And if you want a little extra heart support, there is vital heart rapid release soft gels made with magnesium and CoQ10. And for digestive and immune health, Probiotic 10 delivers 20 billion live probiotic cultures in a 1 pill per day formula which makes it easy to stay consistent. And if you care about building habits that support your goals, this is one way to stay intentional with your health. Nature's Bounty it's in your nature. Learn more@naturesbounty.com these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. One thing about summer is that everything just feels easy. It's the season for comfortable go anywhere pieces that make getting dressed simple. That's what makes Quince such a great fit for the season. They focus on well made essentials that you'll actually live in all summer long. And Martha and I have the European linen duvet cover set from Quince and we love it. It's super soft, breathable and in summer that makes such a difference. I can't deal with hot sheets so I need cool sheets. And it keeps the room feeling cool, calm and comfortable as well. And that's the same feeling you get with their summer wardrobe pieces. Quince's 100% European linen pants and shirts are breathable, easy to throw on and the summer upgrade your rotation needs. Their tees are soft enough to live in all day and the lightweight cotton sweaters are exactly what you want when summer nights cool down make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quint.com Lewis for free shipping or on your order. And 365 day returns now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com Lewis for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quinn's.com Lewis now you had, you had your first first kid right around then or a year before then?
- [26:05]
B
No. Right. Right in there. It's about a little over a little less than a year into that.
- [26:08]
A
One of the things I respect and admire about you is yes, your career is incredible, but the fact that you, you know, I've been in a loving, committed relationship for, I don't know, 16 years. 16 years. You've got three kids and you have found a lot of fulfillment in the richness of living, not just in making money, in the career and the success and the fame. It's one of the things I respect about you. It's one of the things me and Martha were talking about this morning about how you, you know, you, you could have had, you could have been the bachelor forever.
- [26:40]
B
Yeah.
- [26:41]
A
Where do you think your life would have been in that year had you not had the loving, committed, relationship child as well first child. Where do you think temptation would have led you? Or do you think you would have made the same decision with the sand on the ground? Or was it having a committed, conscious, loving relationship and partner and teammates that allowed you to have the courage to act with that line in the sand?
- [27:08]
B
Well, the only reason I pause here is because I'm trying to wonder how little of credit to give the relationship because I'm not going to say it's 100%, but it's up there. The relationship, having her and be now about to become a father, which was the only thing I ever wanted to be, had great resonance for me. I1 had a relationship which gave me just singularly with Camilla, gave me more the license encouraged to fly. But now I'm going to become immortal, so to speak, with a child coming into the world. It's the one thing I ever dreamed to be and become a father. That's was at the top of my list since I was a kid. Now I'm like, well, this is what I'm doing. This part of life is always taking precedent before anything I did since got famous, won this or won that. My career was always in front of a Hollywood career. Always. That's what I mean by JK living. That's why Jake, just keep living has always been sort of a mantra. What at the end of the day, argue with that one. End of the day that wins out. I've always wanted to have a life that I'm leading first. And I became an actor and a movie star and famous, but not, oh, I'm an actor, movie star and famous. So now what do I do? How do I live my life according to that? No, I don't want to keep those in order.
- [28:35]
A
If you didn't have that relationship at that time, what do you think would have happened?
- [28:38]
B
That's a good question. What would have happened?
- [28:41]
A
Do you think it had been more tempting to take the money instead? Let me just.
- [28:45]
B
Yeah, I mean, yeah, the nights would have been even longer. The, the, the, the, the. I think it Would have definitely got more wobbly. I would have really had to. I mean, I believe I could have pulled it off. I'm glad I didn't have to find out. If I could pull it off on my own. I might have. I might have run off to the monastery and still be there. I, you know, or. Because I had.
- [29:16]
A
I.
- [29:16]
B
Look, I had very somewhat reliable temptation from people very close to me going, what's your malfunction, bro? My brothers and family were like, what is your major malfunction? What are you doing? You own this land in the wrong. But why are you making a straight line crooked, which is lying. We always use. Why are you making this complicated? Do you know how many people would dream of this dream to even be doing this? And so I did have that understanding, which I bring up in the book, about being less oppressed and more involved. I was very thankful I was never disrespecting the rom com. I was just like, I don't know. I didn't make this up. This feeling in me.
- [29:55]
A
Yeah, you're in a new season.
- [29:57]
B
There's a new chapter to come. So I don't. What would I have been, what would I be doing now if I didn't have Camilla and she. She. We didn't have our first child on the way? I don't know that to that. That 20 months would have felt like 20 years if I. If I'd have stuck with it and would I have had the patience? Would I had the fortitude? Would I have been able to stay still in the long, lonely nights where I didn't feel like I had purpose or I didn't feel significant, where I didn't have a newborn child in a relationship to look at and go. Because I knew then I was like, you put time into that. You cannot go wrong.
- [30:33]
A
Right.
- [30:33]
B
I looked at my newborn child. I looked at. I was like, you put time to this. You are in the black. There is no debit, no matter how much you can't overdo that. Yeah. So that gave me something. If I didn't have that. No, no, I'm not sure. I'm not sure.
- [30:48]
A
There's a lot of men that are driven men. I'm in la, so I see this in la, where they, they feel like they need to be single for a long time or they need to jump from partner to partner or have multiple partners at the same time. All these different things. No judgment, no right or wrong here. But I'm curious, what have you learned about 16 years in a relationship that has taught you about how much more successful you can be in other areas of life versus single life when you were also extremely successful. But maybe there was something missing, you know, emotionally or spiritually.
- [31:19]
B
Yeah, well, I'm. I'm piggyback on where you first started. I don't. I've got friends that are poly, and I've got friends that are perpetually single. And to see them when they do pull it off and still have a healthy spirit and a healthy body and a healthy mind, I applaud it. Right on. I do. I have seen a lot of them have to. Oh, I got to recalibrate. I got, you know, I got. I got off. I got spread too thin.
- [31:49]
A
Energy everywhere.
- [31:50]
B
You know, a bunch of little campfires, but no bonfires. Right. You can do it, I think. I think a person can do it on their own. I think a person can do it in solitude. I think a person can do it even with a relationship, with just themselves.
- [32:07]
A
If you.
- [32:08]
B
It can be done. But when you have a relationship that you're committed to, that you want to make work, that it's part of your decision, especially when you have a child that is not only committed to you, is dependent on you, that goes to the top of the value system. And so career choices can go into the two hole or maybe the three hole. Now, I would argue that I got better at my career.
- [32:37]
A
Interesting.
- [32:38]
B
When it went to the two and three hole and wasn't in the one hole, really, because I didn't. And I feared this. I was like, whoa. Was having a family. And the fact that when we had kids, my wife said, if we have kids, on one condition, Matthew, when you go, we go. So my family comes with me. When she said that to me, I remember going through my mind, wait a minute. I'm an artist. I'm a lone wolf. When I go to work, I'm in my Airstream all alone. It's me and my dog, maybe, but nobody else. And as I'm saying that, my head, this other little smarter voice comes in and goes, nod your head and say, yes, ma'. Am. And I said, yes, ma'. Am. It was the greatest decision I've ever made.
- [33:12]
A
Right.
- [33:13]
B
Because seeing my kids or leaving before they woke up and seeing them when I got home after work was the. Was a beautiful, energizing reset for me at the end of the day that filled me up with real life and made me more creative, interesting going into work the next day to tell a child when you're doing something like True Detective, and they go, what was the Scene about today. And you go, I better tell a good parable because I can't tell them the real thing. It's some heavy R stuff. Right. So I became a better storyteller and how I'd make it a nursery ride or something. But you're living for something for. For someone else and something more and, you know, for Camilla and I looking for the covenant that. For her and I to do what we can to. To stay together and keep promoting each other and ourselves in a relationship and then to have the kids. I'm living. You live for something else. And that empowered me. It made me better as an individual, really. And when I go out the door, I have more courage because I know I've got that stability at home. Wow.
- [34:11]
A
Where do you think you would have been if you had been in a relationship, you know, five, 10 years prior?
- [34:15]
B
Yeah.
- [34:15]
A
And it'd be 25 years as opposed to 16. Do you think you would have been better in your career or you'd made that shift sooner? Or do you feel like, you know, being the lone wolf, you had its time and its place?
- [34:26]
B
I think it had its time, its place. I'm not arrogant enough to say, oh, if I go back and change time. I mean, I've thought about that. I was with and dated seriously some wonderful women before I met Camilla. I think it wasn't the time for me, and it wasn't the time for them for us to take it further, to take it as far as, say, getting married or something. But, you know, I often wonder, what if. What if it was. What if I felt like it was time that I never did? What if I did? You know, do we meet the right person sometimes, but it's just not the time for us.
- [35:04]
A
Interesting.
- [35:05]
B
Do we do or is it the two play? It's got to be the right person in the right time for each person. But I know I cannot go back, you know, going forward to mystery, looking back to science. When I connect the dots, I don't dare to go back and go, if I had changed 10 years earlier, I'm thinking about who I was dating, if we got married. I mean, who knows? I don't think. I don't think it would have been the same realization 10 years earlier. I was a different man.
- [35:33]
A
Yeah, I was.
- [35:34]
B
I was seeing the world differently. And we'll never know. But I don't. I think it was the right time for me when this happened. And my single years were the right amount of time for me when I was there. And those relationships before that, that Ultimately ended. That was the right time for them to end.
- [35:54]
A
So how old were you when you met your wife?
- [35:57]
B
16? 53? 40? 37.
- [36:00]
A
37. So when you were 37 before the moment you met her? Yeah, I think you met her at a bar. Sunset Club.
- [36:07]
B
On Sunset.
- [36:08]
A
Sars. Club on Sunset Club. Let's call it that morning.
- [36:11]
B
Don't go to many classes. Glad I went to club this night. Yeah.
- [36:15]
A
I was kidding. Let's call it that morning. Or that season right before you met her, what was it that made you feel loved then and what is it today that makes you feel the most loved today?
- [36:27]
B
Okay, what does it make me feel the most loved before?
- [36:30]
A
Yes.
- [36:31]
B
Okay. When I was spiritually strong and look, I was. I had some relationships that were loving. Relationships that. Or I loved the woman, she loved and cared for me. And those were real.
- [36:49]
A
Yes.
- [36:51]
B
I also had a season where it was just affairs. It wasn't about love. It was lust. It's fun. Yeah, it was fun and it was. It was healthily. It was a healthy, fun transaction. And we laughed and kept it light. And that was all it was ever going to be. And we're not even, you know. And that was okay, too. I am happy to say that through most. Most of that, I was able to keep somewhat spiritually strong. Really? How did you had no. And didn't really have trouble sleeping alone in my own bed. Because I've had those times. I think we all have, if we've had this single life where there's times where if you're. If you're rolling like that, especially if it's like affairs and flirt popping around here and there. Boy, all of a sudden you end up in bed alone. You can't sleep. You're like, whoa, wait a minute now. I'm the company I can't stand being with if it's only me. That would always be a trigger for me. Like, you better bend a knee and go.
- [37:53]
A
Go inward.
- [37:54]
B
Catch your breath and go inward here. So.
- [37:58]
A
So what made you feel the most loved before you met her? What was it? I mean, was it the success or the.
- [38:06]
B
The fame chase?
- [38:07]
A
Was it the, you know.
- [38:08]
B
No, it wasn't the chasing catch. I knew what I. I knew what that was.
- [38:14]
A
I.
- [38:14]
B
That. That always felt like a stop and not a stay to me. It was a season. Yeah. I understood it to be a season. And I gave myself freedom and license to have that season as healthily as. As I could. I don't think I was any more shallow.
- [38:35]
A
Right.
- [38:35]
B
Right. I didn't think, oh, this Is all there is. I did have a dream where I thought where I was 80 and 88 year old Bachelor but had a lot of children. You did? Yeah. And it wasn't a nightmare.
- [38:56]
A
88 year old bachelor and you had a lot of children that wasn't on a porch.
- [38:59]
B
And it wasn't a nightmare really. And I woke up from that dream not going, yippee, that's what I'll do. I did wake up with it going, that's possible. As soon as I said that's possible, I did quit looking so hard. And when I quit looking for her so hard, that's when she came. Because before that I will say in my thought of, I do want to find someone to fall in love with and start a family. I mean, every red light, bro. L. A possible, possible produce section. You know what I mean? Possible boss. Every, you know, you just yoga class, Whole Foods, checking, you know, everywhere. And I was looking, I was leaning it, leaning in and said, well, Mac, maybe that could work like that script. Well, maybe that could work, you know. And then when I had that dream, it did, it was like, oh, on spiritual sense. I was like, well, you might end up being an ado bachelor. And if you've got spiritually, if you're spiritually strong, your relationship with God strong, that's, that's okay. It didn't make me go, that's what I want to do. Right. But just saying that could be a reality for you. Let me exhale. And I quit looking everywhere. I quit looking in the first second was like. And I. What happens when you do that? You become more attractive. You allow yourself to be loved. You allow yourself to see someone who actually you might love. But mainly you allow yourself to be someone that can be loved. And you're not selling, you're not soliciting yourself. You're not in a rush about anything. And meet somebody. You also, what you look at, you want to see how they move, how far back are the shoulders? How do they talk? What do they say in between the lines? Not what they say, what they say in between the lines. And I remember when I saw Camilla walk across the club that night, it was the way she moved. I saw history. I saw dignity. I saw somebody that was not for sale. I saw somebody that didn't need that when I called her over, was not happy to meet me, wasn't impressed with my vocation. And she knew who I was impressed with that she was about a lot more than that. So I, my eyes were open to see it. What I wanted and needed. And I also was able to in that moment completely be myself. Not oversell myself.
- [41:30]
A
Interesting.
- [41:32]
B
Not undersell myself.
- [41:33]
A
Did you feel like you need to oversell yourself before then? Even though you had all the success and the fame and the hits and the money?
- [41:39]
B
And I think, I think when just a sped. It's a sped up process, you know, especially if you're like in, you know, if it's a. More of a string of short term relationships, it's like, it's not overselling. It's just like let's skip the, let's skip a lot of the real stuff. Let's skip a lot of the, the, you know what I mean? Come on, we're just here, we're laughing, we're having a good time. You know what I mean? And that's all, that's all we're both in this for. So, you know, so you speed up the process. So I don't know, when you say what did I love? It wasn't my fame. Did I, did I feel more, did I feel more loved? If my movie did well and more people came up and was like that was great. Sure, sure. But that was never my top source of feeling affirmation of feeling love. Did I feel less loved, movie bombed or people like, I'm like, sure, but that was never my main thing. The, the source of my lack of confidence or lack of significance. It was spiritual. And then I always had, look, I always had family at this time, being my brothers and my mom and stuff. There was always that that I knew was 100 reliable but maybe I would say spiritual. And then your follow up question to what makes you feel more loved now?
- [43:02]
A
Well, yeah, when do you feel the most loved now?
- [43:05]
B
Oh, the good night group hug with my three kids and my, my wife after we've just talked about what our day was like, what we're looking forward to tomorrow and we've had a few fun disagreements and somebody said something real honest that they didn't have the courage to say maybe a week before and for the first time noticed that if they shared that they weren't going to get in trouble, that they were just going. And to see them grow and going. You got the courage we me and then to feel like a dad and go, Me and your mother are giving you a place to feel like you can go. Yeah, I did like her and my heart hurts because she doesn't like me. To be able to, for a child to be able to say that to you, it's like, okay, we're doing Something Right. There we go. That's a feeling of love. To have an honest talk, not just about all of the happy times, but about the stuff that sucks in my kids lives as well and even from my wife to share it and it not be like, Right, right. To be like, yep, we're going through this and one thing we know is we're going through it together. That, that, that's beautiful.
- [44:12]
A
That's beautiful. One of the things that you talked about it in the book in the last couple pages was this list of goals that you wrote down. One of them.
- [44:25]
B
Isn't that wild?
- [44:26]
A
10 goals in life, 1992.
- [44:27]
B
92.
- [44:28]
A
One of the becoming a father. And number two, finding and keeping the woman for me. The woman for me.
- [44:33]
B
Yep.
- [44:34]
A
And you had 10 of them. I'm curious, how important is it to write down our visions, our dreams, our goals in order to manifest what we want in our lives? Because this whole book is a. Yeah. A journal of you writing down everything.
- [44:49]
B
Yeah.
- [44:50]
A
And all 10 of these, you. You've accomplished all of them and you're still accomplishing and living into them.
- [44:56]
B
Yeah.
- [44:56]
A
So how important is it to write down our dreams, our goals, our values in order to manifest and attract them?
- [45:02]
B
I think it's a lot more important than we give it credit for. Look, writing things down, it seems like this old fashioned sort of archaic things. Type it, it's on the screen, put it on, put it on a word doc, save it, put in a folder, it can be lost back there. To actually write it with the hand does is a different kind of objectivity you get because it's come out of you, you've put it down. Now you're looking at, it's outside of you. It's freed up now. It's alive, it's moving now more so than having that goal by your bedside every night, which is. Can be good. But to write it down, if you're writing down true goals there, they become written in your lineage, they become written in your body, whether you know it or not, in your subconscious. It's a way to get it into your subconscious to write it down. Now it's out of me. It's on a page. I'm objectifying it. Now I'm looking at it. So now I'm having a dialogue where before it was just Socratic, but now I'm having a dialogue and it starts to reciprocate those 10 goals. I wrote those down in the top bunk in the Dell House. University of Texas, 1992. My roommate was Monty Wills. I remember the night I wrote him down, I never looked at them again. I found those in writing this book and found out that, oh my gosh, all 10 you actually did. And four you're still doing.
- [46:27]
A
That's crazy.
- [46:28]
B
Never looked at them.
- [46:29]
A
30 years later you found them.
- [46:31]
B
Yeah, that's crazy.
- [46:33]
A
But they all happened.
- [46:35]
B
They all happened. I don't think they happen if I don't write them down. I don't think they do. So that practice of writing something down that you into that you want or that you yearn for and to add to it or subtract from it along the way if you want to, or just write it down, fold it up, tuck it away so you can find it 30 years later when you go, want to share a journal or write something about it like I did, I don't think it happens. But then just go back and see the invisible contract I made myself. Oh my gosh, I love that. Because obviously I did. Because I mean, I. Those 10 people go, you've done all 10. I said, well, no, I'm in the middle. I'm still, I have to main. I'm still maintaining for it, but I have engaged. Some of them I've just done, but I have engaged. I am in full engagement with all of them.
- [47:31]
A
You know those moments when you're ordering everything to your house from groceries, gear, random things you didn't even realize you needed until the last minute? It just makes life a little easier. And now you can add Internet to that list. Get same day delivery FOR T Mobile 5G Home Internet powered by doordash. No store visits, no waiting around for technician. It shows up, you plug it in and you're online in about 15 minutes with one cord. T Mobile has the fastest 5G home Internet. For me, working from home on the podcast, that simplicity matters a lot. I'm on video calls, uploading episodes, researching guests and sending emails. And when everything just works and I don't have to think about it, I stay focused on what actually matters. It fits right into my workflow and it keeps things moving throughout the day. Visit t-mobile.com homeinternet to check availability and get your home Internet delivered today. Same day delivery for most Internet eligible customers. See if it's an option during checkout. Fastest according to OOKLA Speed test intelligence data. Second half 2025. All rights reserved. So you've always wanted to have a backyard oasis. Here's the thing. If you get smart with your money, you can do things like that. With empower, you can start making the most of your money so you can go out and live a little. Isn't that why we work so hard to have some fun with our money, like treating yourself to something special or spontaneously doing something extra for a loved one. So use Empower and get good at money so you can be a little bad. Join their 20 million customers today@empower.com not an Empower client, paid or sponsored. What's an invisible contract until it becomes a physical written contract?
- [49:27]
B
You know, but it's with yourself and you guess it becomes, there's an invisible way it becomes subconsciously non negotiable with yourself.
- [49:34]
A
And here's the interesting thing on this. Is this the exact image or is this a recreated image?
- [49:39]
B
No, that's it.
- [49:40]
A
This is a photo of it or you signed it.
- [49:43]
B
Yeah.
- [49:44]
A
And that's what I think is actually really important because you did create a contract with self, right? You signed the goals at the bottom. You have 10 goals in life. Nine, one, nine two and you bottom at the bottom you signed it. And I think that's really important in creating a. You know, this contract with self is putting your name on something that you write down from the ideas in your mind into paper so that you can actualize this in life. And I think that's what's beautiful. You were like what, 20 years old when you do this?
- [50:11]
B
20, 21. And folks, anyone who thinks so, that sounds like you know, Mike Tyson. Talking about Mike Tyson when he's himself on the third person, do it. Don't worry. Sign your stuff to yourself. You know what I mean? Right. Right to yourself. And sign it. It's a great practice to do. You know, you are then, you're then getting a third person objective view of yourself where so you will have a better chance of subjectively creating those and activating those things and having them happen.
- [50:41]
A
One of the things in here, number seven, stay close to mom and family. I know there's a period, I think you said six or eight years where you pulled away from your mom. I think you're still close with your brother, but you pulled back because she was kind of loving my fame, loving the fame and it was making about her as opposed to supporting your son. So that was something that kind of came and went and you danced with. But you know, now it seems like you guys are, you know, in a great place.
- [51:05]
B
She's living with us four years now. She's 91.
- [51:07]
A
And then also you had number eight when an Oscar for the best actor. How do you at 20, 21 that write down a goal of winning an Oscar. When I think.
- [51:15]
B
And I wasn't even acting at that time.
- [51:17]
A
That's nuts. You didn't even do the first movie yet.
- [51:19]
B
No.
- [51:21]
A
Why did that come in your mind? Why was that even a thought, a dream, a goal?
- [51:27]
B
So this is, I believe, right after I had. Soon after I had called my father to say, I don't want to go to law school anymore. I want to go to film school. Now, looking back, and he said a
- [51:36]
A
great line back to you.
- [51:37]
B
He said a great line.
- [51:38]
A
He said, don't have.
- [51:39]
B
Don't half ass it. Yeah. Which was three or whatever, four. Ever mean words into the best words I've ever heard from the man who I ultimately really wanted my ultimate approval from. And he didn't give me. He gave me a lot more than approval with that line. He made a kick in the backside. Privilege, freedom, responsibility, kick. Go do it. And I suppose I know consciously, but probably subconsciously too, there's things that I've done where I wanted to let something slide. And those words came on my mind. I was like, no way. That'd be half ass in it. So those words have lived with me. I. I decided I want to go to film school. And I went back to these journals and I find something like that. I was like, dude, you always wanted to be an actor.
- [52:27]
A
Oh, interesting.
- [52:28]
B
Like you just wouldn't admit it. And I remember always being sheepish about someone go like, we just want to. Why don't you perform something about it? And I had felt fraudulent then. Something about being behind the camera to go to director school. Learning story. Felt like, well, that's my. I'll sneak in the back door to the acting. Right. But that's the better way. And I. I'm glad I went that path, but I think I wanted to. And I've talked to my buddy Rob Bemler, who I bring up often in this book about it. He was like, yeah, you were wanting to do. He remind me of talks we'd have late night. And he was already NYU film school. He was like, remind me of. Yeah, you were already wanting to at this time when you first went to film school. So I write that down to myself. I'm not afraid to write down to myself, but I'm afraid to say anything like that out loud. I'm not. I'm not afraid to even say I would. I'm interested in going into acting at this point. Wow. But yet I write down, I want to win an Oscar.
- [53:30]
A
That's crazy. Wow. So when you saw this paper, you had already Won these goals for the first time after I guess close to 30 years. You'd want it, I think, I don't know, six, seven years prior to that. What did that feel like when you read this and you saw win an Oscar for best Actor?
- [53:52]
B
I read. I was like, are you kidding? Get out of here. Camilla, check this out. Are you kidding me? Wow. And then I went right back to the night and I remember sitting in the top bunk. We just come from the arcade, me and Monty Wills, a roommate, he was in the bottom like I was in top like a two Thursday night. I've been journaling and I wrote in this little journal and I remember that night other people were actually going out for a late. We've been out kind of party and other people went to the next party and I decided to come home and so did mine. Follow the top bunk. I brushed my teeth, went out, put them shorts, got in bed, got in cover, sat up there and had a little window right here and I'm a little diary on the little window seal with a pen.
- [54:42]
A
Bunk bed.
- [54:43]
B
Yeah, that we made. We made these bunk with the first bunk beds in the Dell house and pulled over and I wrote it and I think I had a. I think I even a form of a headlamp, if they even had headlamps. I loved it. I still do love headlamps. And written that. And I wrote that down. Wow.
- [55:01]
A
Curious. If you didn't create this contract for yourself, do you think you would have accomplished all 10 of these goals and dreams for your life? Or would some of them maybe fall through the cracks because you didn't create that? Turn the invisible contract into a physical written contract and make it real?
- [55:19]
B
I don't know. I mean, I have to believe that writing them down subconsciously led to me actually I knew what they were. I couldn't recite it to you because I never looked at them again, but I knew what they were and it tells me I had good goals because I actually they. They were true ones. I mean we all write down goals that we go like later on. Oh, you were bull yourself. You were. You were just writing down what you think someone wanted you to say. Then I, and, and, and this particular night, I obviously wrote things down that were had real. I mean, I told my future in a way. Wow. I don't. Trust me when I write every time I put a pen to paper. I'm not. I'm. I batted a thousand on this one. I went 10 for 10. I don't go 10 for 10 all the time. You know what I mean? But writing them down, the right ones. If I. And even without looking at it, I don't. I doubt I would have pulled these things off.
- [56:16]
A
How do we learn to listen to the true highest version of ourselves and write the right goals and follow that path.
- [56:25]
B
Yeah.
- [56:26]
A
As opposed to chasing the, you know, the stuff that leads to a lot of red lights.
- [56:30]
B
Yeah.
- [56:31]
A
And actually create a lane of green lights.
- [56:34]
B
Yeah.
- [56:35]
A
For us.
- [56:36]
B
Yeah.
- [56:36]
A
Obviously you had obstacles to overcome on this journey and that's part of the human condition, but you actualized all these. How do we. How did, how did you, you know, you were listening to yourself and you authentically said, become a father, finally. Keep the woman from me. Keep my relationship with God and chase my best self. As your first four. You didn't say become a billionaire. You know, have 20 mansions, have three, you know, Maseratis.
- [57:01]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [57:02]
A
Which is what you think a 20 year old might. I mean, that's probably what I was thinking when I was 20. You know, it's like, how did you think about these? You know, the first four and the sixth one, Take more risks. It's like, stay close to mom and family. Then number eight was a more material thing. Win an Oscar. It wasn't. Win an Oscar first.
- [57:21]
B
Right, Right. We gotta ask yourself what we. We all. I think we can all agree, we all want more. We have dreams, we have goals. We gotta ask yourself first, more what. And that starts, I think, by going, answering that question, what do I value the most? And so look at the things that you already got in your holster that you value because you don't want to be reckless with those things and cast them off and let all the weeds grow around those. Then all of a sudden, you can't even recognize that garden. So I think that the first things were about taking care of things that I, that I valued. They were very personal. They would take care of myself, they would take care of my mom, take care of the family, take care of my relationship with God. They were very, very, very personal things to me that I knew and believed would be lifelong maintenance journeys. And that things that I believed at that time, that no, taking care of those is never going to go out of style for you, bud. Pick out the things that are not. Not the fads, because we'll write things down. Those three Maseratis.
- [58:27]
A
Yeah.
- [58:27]
B
Hey, man, you get 20 years from now, you don't like Maserati. It's not like a Bugatti, you know, I mean, it's all right. Maserati. You Know what I mean? Watch out what proper nouns we're using because they, some of them may be just fickle, you know what I mean? So those, the proper nouns, family, God, myself, J stuff. Those are things that I gave value to and gave me value and meaning in my life. And so I was like, I, I was already in, I was already in the midst of those. And those are things I said, I'm not going to forgive these. And I'm not gonna. No matter who I become, I'm not gonna say, oh, these are no longer on my plate. I don't need to worry about these. Like you said, the Oscar, that's a new one. That's something that was out there. That's big. Becoming a father, that's out there. But Since I was 8 years old, the one thing I knew I wanted to be was a father. I knew I wanted to meet the right person, right woman for me. Didn't have her, hadn't met her yet. That point. Far from it. So start with the things that we got in our saddle that you do already about that already give you meaning and value in your life and double down on those, project forward. And if that happens, what will. What will. What I would I dream of it to become. And then if you're going to talk about, I think when we're talking about a career, we got to ask ourselves first, I think this would be really valuable for everyone to ask yourself first, what do you have an innate ability for, an innate talent for? And what are you willing. Is that the same thing you're willing to work your for? And then thirdly, which is a little bit more of an asterisk, is that something that the world would demand if we're going to go straight? Capitalism, supply and demand. But we often look at things and I've done it. I'll bust my hump for it. But I'm like, I'm really not that good at it. Okay. Or I've got something that sometimes we have things that we're really good at. We're like. But I kind of just a natural. I don't want to work at it. If you can find something that you have an innate ability for. We love doing things we have an innate ability for, right? Having the innate talents in our DNA for. And then go. Now I'm ready to educate myself, learn, hustle, go after, see, create opportunities. Bam, bam. It's going to be in the prism of my how I measure every situation where I am going forward. Hunt it down and do what you got to do to get better at it. And then it's hopefully something that the world can demand. You're right.
- [61:13]
A
That's a sweet spot.
- [61:14]
B
Now you're. Now you. How you're paying your rent, man. Now we're rolling. Now we're waking up with some purpose. Now we're waking up with, you know, yeah, it's going to be a hard day today, but I don't. I can't. I'm not dreading Monday morning, you know. Yeah, may want to sleep in, but I got. I'm building something. I'm building something here. I'm in construction.
- [61:37]
A
One of the things that you. I want to connect that to this thought here. 6:22 Matthew 6:22. If thine eye be single, the whole body will be full of light.
- [61:46]
B
Yep.
- [61:47]
A
I believe that's your favorite passage.
- [61:49]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [61:51]
A
You went on a journey, you know, after the. It was either in the middle or at the end of the tail end of your rom com, you know, stardom. And you went to. On a trip, went on a journey with yourself. Yeah, I think for 20, 22 days. 22 days in the Amazon.
- [62:06]
B
Yeah.
- [62:07]
A
And there was a moment in the book where you talk about, essentially you had to kind of have a coming to, you know, moment with yourself where you had to shed all the identities that you were holding on to. Your rings, your heritage, your background, your clothes, your. I'm famous. I'm a rom com guy. I'm an actor. You had to shed all of it?
- [62:26]
B
Yep.
- [62:26]
A
And what was the thing that you found when you let go of your identity in the outer world?
- [62:31]
B
That I was a mammal. A mammal. And for me, as a believer, a child of God. That's it. Baseline. And the mammal we can all agree on. Right. The child of God. That was for me and any other believers, but the baseline, it I got rid of. I remember my dad's ring, which had M on it. Gold melted down from my mom and dad's class rings and gold from my mom's teeth. Meant a lot to me.
- [63:05]
A
Yeah.
- [63:05]
B
But it was an identity marker. I'm a McConaughey. This is about my dad. I have my American cap that I'd worn for two decades. When American. Get rid of that. Got rid of all these little talismans that were identities and titles that meant something. They weren't random. They were healthy ones. Yeah, but I stripped them all off. It was like bull. And no, you're not famous. And no, it's not. You were what, before you were ever an actor? Before what are you? What Were you before you were McConaughey, before you were Texan, before you in America, before you were an actor, before you're a movie star for your celebrity? Well, come on, get it all off. And I. And it was a purge, basically. And I ended up. That was. There was. I was a naked, sweating mammal. I was like, you're mama child of God, and that's what you are. So we've stripped off all the accoutrements. We've stripped off the ornaments. Here we are. And that is the night that I was like, this happened a couple times in my life. And I think this is important for us all to do at some point. That's when I was like, okay, and what other truth do we know, McConaughey? Tell you what, another truth I'm realizing right now is that you're the only son I can't get rid of. So we're going to duke it out for the rest of our life here. Are we going to figure out. Get along. Wow. What are we going to forgive right now? And what are we going to say? The buck stops here. No more. I'm not putting up with it because I'm tired of playing grass with yourself. I'm going to cut the man. Let's get along. I can't get rid of you. Everybody else, every other relationship out there's a choice. You're the one person I don't have a choice of hanging out with. So let's work this out. And just like going back and saying the embarrassment and shame turned into giggles, I began to go like, man, maybe you've been too hard on yourself on this thing. You know what? Get that monkey off your back. You're human, man. Forgive yourself and these other things. Dude, you've been a repeat offender. It hadn't been paying you back. You've been regretting that choice every time you make it. And you keep freaking making it. Cut, man. Evolve. Turn the page. No more. And next morning, I remember even the. The Sherpas and stuff in Peru. I came out of the tent and they all started going, la, lose la lose light. The light, light. And they were talking about me and the way I was moving. And I went for a walk. And for the first time during that trip, I didn't give it more. I was around about what was around the next corner.
- [65:56]
A
You weren't thinking about the destination?
- [65:58]
B
I wasn't thinking about the destination. Getting to the Amazon and how it's been 11 days. When are we going to get there? Mind you, this 11 days prior I had not really been present in the trip because I was thinking about the result getting to the destination so much. And then this morning, after that night, I'm walking, I'm not even thinking about what's around the next corner. And when I did turn the corner, I was stopped by this sea of atomic plugged in neon blue like a puddle, like a bubbling puddle in the middle of my jungle path. And it stopped me. And I looked at. I've never seen colors this, this neon and bright. It was like it was not man made, it was glowing. I'm completely sober this time. No ayahuasca, no payout. This is straight eyed, right? And it stopped me. And as I stared at it for about 30 seconds, all of a sudden it started to flutter and rise and dissipated. It was tens of thousands of these Amazonian butterflies.
- [67:07]
A
Wow.
- [67:09]
B
And I stayed there for a minute and then this little word, words came into my brain from the prime mover that said, all I want is what I can see and what I can see is in front of me. I was free, I was light. It was magical. I walked, I turned the corner, went down the trail. There was the Amazon. I finally made it. Made it to the river right after that moment. Did not know if I was still days away, weeks away. What stuff like that happens, we gotta listen. Yeah, those are some of those truths that come, you go. Nobody else was here to witness that. That was not for the whole class. That was not on the speaker, that was not on the bulletin. That was not on the nightly news. That was not even at church on Sunday with the congregation. That wasn't at school. That wasn't sitting around the dinner table with mom and dad learning lessons. It wasn't from a mentor. That was for me. In this moment, I must heed that truth.
- [68:28]
A
To kids, summer isn't just time off. It's time spent building confidence and curiosity. But when school meals pause, millions of kids lose access to the food they count on during the school year. As a neighborhood led network, Feeding America is deeply rooted in every community. Ensuring summer meals continue nourishing growth and potential. Your support puts healthy food within reach, fueling the future for kids and their families. Give now@feeding America.org Summer hunger. You know those moments when the right person joins a team and everything just clicks a little more? I've seen that firsthand. Not because one person does everything, but because they bring the right skills at the right time. It makes communication easier, the workflow smoother, and the whole team stronger. When workplace chaos hits and the right Hire becomes urgent. This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Your post gets a visibility boost so it's seen by candidates who actually match what you're looking for. Spend more time interviewing candidates who check all your boxes with Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit@ Indeed.com podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire. This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. You've been on this journey of a lot of people seeing you on screen and your personalities on screen and your talent in characters. But now, over the last three to four years, you've been revealing yourself more and more through your book, through all of your amazing content online, all the interviews you've been doing, and all the. The solo content, which I think is amazing. Please keep doing that.
- [70:14]
B
Thank you.
- [70:15]
A
I think it's amazing, these lessons that you share. You know, the last story you just told, you know, had the advice. Entire room just like in awe and shock and just silent here. As you were talking about this truth that you realized from within, essentially came through God, and you realized from within. No one was around you. And I, and I mentioned this quote before, that if thine eye be single, thy whole body will be full of light, right? Matthew 6:22. What does that mean to you? If thine eye be single, thy whole body will be full of light. And that light came to you in that moment. And these Sherpas were saying, you know, la Louise la loose. You are radiating light after this came to you. Why is this your favorite passage? And. And what does it mean for you? And how can we start to step into that?
- [71:08]
B
So the mandorla. This is what the mandorah. So we. We see. We're. We so often have seen life in contradictions, right? Future, the past, heaven, hell, technology, culture. And we see them as contradictions. And when in truth, that's. That's two eyes, right? And there's judgment on either side. There's a duality there with the truth. Is in that third eye. Interesting, where they overlap. And that's not a shade. So we go, oh, that's a shade of gray. No, it's not a shade of gray. What the verse is saying, what I get from is that's where all the colors live. All the colors of the truth live. That passage. When I always tell myself, keep a high eye, it's. Keep the high I. It's third eye. It shows up in all the religions too. Shows up everywhere. It's. It's a way of perceiving the truth, I think, which lives in the paradox. And paradox is a word that some people go, oh, don't get into paradox. That's too, I don't know, academic or whatever. No, paradox is where it's. Both are true. Two things could be true at the same time. It's today we could utilize it. It's like if I seek to understand you and where you're coming from first, I'm probably gonna. Before I seek to be understood. We don't usually has to do with listening has to do with how we see things. It's how we judge. It's very easy. And especially today, I think we love to be judged and jury on others and ourselves. And it's a very arrogant thing for us to do. And this passage, if that I be single and not a dual contradiction. And seeing the contradiction, things have gone, oh, this is true and that's true. And instead of. Or right, there's. That's where the truth lives, I believe. And it doesn't mean that you just straddle the fence and you're non committal about anything. Right? That's not what it means. It doesn't mean you're. You're just Mr. In between. So that's true and that's true. It's all okay. No, you can then have judgment, but see both first. See the overlap of the truth and understand it from both sides and then be understood. And you can then have judgment, but see it through that lens first. Because we just don't do it. We come in with one eye or we me, us versus them, Me versus you, my idea versus yours, left versus right, Democrat versus Republican even. How far can you go? Can you go down to right versus wrong? Good versus bad? I mean, we see them as contradictions and they're not. We all know we all got a little goodness, we all got a little badass. It's a choice we make where we then have judgment. So that passage has elevated my POV quite a bit. And after which one that I daily remind myself if I'm getting a low eye on somebody, if I'm condescending people, if I'm objectifying people, I'm like, whoa, whoa. Hi. I. Buddy, come on. Open that third eye. You're not. It's not. It's not open. My kids can see it in my eyes when I'm talking to them, if I'm talking Adam. Or if I stop and really look at them and maybe there's something. Maybe it's a form of discipline, but then they can see if I'm looking at them. Like, I love you, man. This is why I'm trying to teach you this. All of a sudden they go, my son said it. I see you're there.
- [74:54]
A
I have to buy, really?
- [74:56]
B
6:22. I'm like, yeah, yeah. He's like, I heard you. I didn't hear you before when you were talking just at me, you know, so it's a great. It's a great reminder. Matthew 6:22. The whole body will be full of light, and you will move lightly and with discernment. Doesn't take away discernment, take away judgment. Just saying, see it through that lens first and understand that that truth is where those overlap. Yeah. And then make your decision. Wow.
- [75:27]
A
I think it's beautiful that your, I
- [75:30]
B
believe, is your son that was born at 62622.
- [75:32]
A
Crazy.
- [75:33]
B
There's another one.
- [75:34]
A
I'm all about. I'm all about the. The symbols and the signs and the synchronicities of life. And me and my girlfriend Martha, we talk about how. How impactful it is to listen and watch for the signals and signs and synchronicities. And, you know, and I think you would probably say that that might be a green light that you should be looking towards when you see those things kind of coming in your peripheral.
- [75:57]
B
I think so. But let's talk about this, because I was writing this yesterday. Seems our greatest strength is our greatest Achilles heel. And if you overcompensate for something that works for you, all of a sudden you go into the equal and same amount, into the debit section. Meaning on this instance, if you're. We've all been there. If you're looking for the signal and the significance in every situation, you start creating ones that aren't real, making them up. And it's like, well, you're getting stimulus from everywhere. Oh, that was a sign. Oh, that was a sign. And I remember writing this line, everything has significance, but not everything is significant. Right. And so we have to watch that fine line of where do we intuit? Where do we feel a truth? But if we're. Again, like. Like I was talking earlier about finding Camilla when I quit looking for. If we're hunting for the significance and every single thing, it can be mental meditation. We can. The subplots become unmanageable.
- [77:06]
A
Yes.
- [77:06]
B
You know what I mean?
- [77:07]
A
How do we know when it's significant?
- [77:08]
B
Right. Put it. Can we put ourselves in that place to receive it and be aware to see it?
- [77:14]
A
You got to be light.
- [77:14]
B
You got to be light, and you got to be in a place where you can hear it, feel it, and see it. But if we're out there going, well, you know, we've all been there. Look at that art. Wow. That tree. And all of a sudden, you look up three hours later, and you. You were on your way to the bathroom, but you didn't move six inches because you were so. Oh, wow. Wow. And that's. We've been around those people like, whoa, Subplots are a little unmanageable, bro. You know, at the same time, got to be open to that. That mystical math that comes to us because there's a metric to that mystical math. There's a metric to that spiritual. Those gifts that come to us, we don't know how to put them in a category and go, there's how their currency. There's the credits and debits. There's how they bring us roi, and this is what they're worth. They don't come in numbers like that. But there is a real, true, valuable metric to them. And I think, again, art of living. How are you aware to them, aware of them, and be open to them and put yourself in a place so you can receive them at the same time, not go hunting them down in every single shape, size, and smell. Because then you'll be just. You'll just spin in circles, you know? Yeah. And it's. That's an art, you know? And I don't know explain what that art is. Got times where I feel like I'm in the people call it maybe the flow state, where you're kind of intuition's right on time. And I don't know what time it is. I don't even wear a watch. But I was right on time again, wasn't I? Whatever that is. You know your reactions. You understand what someone's saying, even it's not what they're saying. Kind of come back, you see where they're coming from. You're taking care of yourself, but you're taking care of others at the same time. It's a wonderful flow, and it starts, I think, a lot. A baseline for that would be to be in that position to see those mystical sort of gifts that come. Starts with gratitude.
- [79:11]
A
Yes. I love. In your acceptance speech, one of the first things you said was, it's a scientific fact that gratitude reciprocates, pays back. I love that you said that in your speech, by the way. Thank you for putting that out in the world, because I feel like gratitude is the path. It's the doorway that opens to the pathway of abundance, of love.
- [79:33]
B
Coming in and going out.
- [79:35]
A
Yes. It's the light, all these different things. And so it's the. The magnifier and the magnet to what you want in a conscious, healthy way. You could also magnify another unconscious, unhealthy ways. But I think that's what it does. So I'm so grateful that you said that on a big platform, a big stage, because I feel like when people see someone accomplish a bigger thing, a big award or a big, you know, fame or success, they want that. But I'm glad you fed people the peas and carrots right away, right? And talked about gratitude. It's gratitude. It's gratitude. It's a scientific fact. When did you realize that gratitude was the key for you in opening up so many doors?
- [80:21]
B
My mom's big on gratitude. And I mean, she instilled it in us at an early age. I remember it was, you know, you get up grumpy in the morning. You come into the kitchen from your bedroom for breakfast, and you wanted to sleep longer, and you're kind of grumpy. And she'd see the way we would walk. And if we were kind of. She'd turn around from the kitchen, making breakfast. Go back to your bed, and don't get out of bed until you're ready to come in here and see the rose in the vase instead of the dust in the table. And you'd be like, oh, geez, okay, I gotta go back. I rearranged. And she would preach just the very baseline basics. Like you. Who do you think you are to think you were guaranteed the sun was gonna rise for you today? Geez, Mom. I remember, Mom, I got this old pair of snotty sneakers with holes in them and stuff. I need another pair of sneakers. Oh, yeah, you think another pair of pair of sneakers. Let me introduce you to the kid with no feet. Oh, geez, Mom. She always, like, baseline sobered us up on stuff like that, right? So it started with the very baseline stuff. Now we get more fluent in life. We have things I don't think we should take even those things for granted. But a lot of us are out there going, okay, I get that part. But how do we become thankful for, you know, more things we have around us in our life? I think that the more we are give thanks for, it's. It's. We give more value to that thing or that person or that place or that answer. You get more value to. Means more to us. If something means more to us, we tend it, we take care of it. When you Take care of something, something grows so it scales. So actually gratitude is the root of generosity coming in and going. And it's a self serving thing. It's not just a self less serving. It is self serving. And I applaud that it is. And if you're going to give gratitude out for selfish reasons, I say bravo, you know, because it will reciprocate the same way back out. It just, you know, in our foundation we have these young kids that we give them a safe place to go after school. They learn nutrition, they make a physical goal, and they do community service. These are Title 1 schools. And at the end of every one of those classes, they often sit around and in a circle and share something out loud they're thankful for. And these are high school students. Ain't cool to say thank you for stuffing in high school, right? Well, when they first started saying thank you, they were being like, I'm thankful for the just Good Lid foundation or I'm thankful. And they all repeat themselves. You're like, no, no, no, no, no, guys. You're thinking, you're feeling like this is too serious. So one day it got to me and I was like, I'm thankful I got up and got a kiss from my wife this morning before I got out of bed and they all started hooting and I was like, see, you can be thankful for fun stuff too. So they all started saying thankful, thankful Halloween's coming. I'm thankful I got, I'm looking so sharp that everyone laughed. What that led to was then people started to feel free to go. I'm thankful my mom's out of the hospital. I'm thankful my sister got into that college. I'm thankful my dad got a job. And when we asked them, what's your favorite thing about the graduate circle? This is the coolest answer. They started coming up to us and saying, well, my favorite thing about it is that I'm for the first time hearing peers of mine say thank you for something in their lives that I have in mind that I've always taken regret. There's that reciprocity again.
- [84:00]
A
Where do you think you would be if you had zero gratitude and your life?
- [84:04]
B
Oh, geez. Zero gratitude in life.
- [84:07]
A
If you never expressed it, if you never experienced it, if you never talked about what you're grateful for.
- [84:13]
B
I'd look a lot older, I'd feel a lot older, I'd have less energy, I'd, I'd be a cynic, which is a great disease of getting older that we all should stave off. You wouldn't want to be hanging out with me, man. I don't know. You would not. I mean I. I'd probably write about a lot of things.
- [84:35]
A
Righteous.
- [84:36]
B
And you'd be like, good for him. I don't want to be around this, you know? Yeah.
- [84:48]
A
With the US Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card, you earn an unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase. No quarterly activations, no categories to Track, just unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase. Think about those bigger everyday purchases. Travel, groceries, things for the house where afterward you realize I could have earned cash back on that. That's the kind of opportunity that adds up over time. Visit usbank.com smartlycard to learn more. The creditor and issuer of this card is U.S. bank National association pursuant to a license from Visa USA Inc. Some restrictions may apply. Back to school starts now. Get long lasting battery life on the Dell XPS laptop powered by Series 3 Intel Core. So you can work from anywhere now starting at $699 with exclusive student pricing starting at 599. Complete your setup with savings on select monitors and must have electronics and accessories. Limited time deals and free shipping on PCs and more await you@dell.com deals that's Dell.com deals do you think we can manifest abundance and the things we want, the goals we want without gratitude? Is it possible?
- [86:04]
B
Yeah. You. I mean you could mathematically compound things that are technically good or should. Should come in abundance, I think. But you're not going to enjoy it. Right? Right.
- [86:23]
A
That inner abundance won't be there.
- [86:25]
B
It'll be it a little antiseptic. Right. It'll be all treble, no bass. It won't have much. Won't have any feeling to it. I don't think you're going to be. Why cheat yourself out on the, on the. On the.
- [86:45]
A
Yeah.
- [86:45]
B
The great feeling of being thankful for something. It's. It's there to be thankful for. Yeah. And again, I don't mean when I bring up earlier be less impressed, more involved. I don't mean. I don't mean that. Oh, disrespect. Don't be. Because we have to be more than just happy to be here. We can't just all run around going just so great. I'm. What? I'm just so happy to be alive. We got. We want to be more than that. I mean again, have some discernment, make a choice, have some identity. Define what you want more of when you want more value of in your life and set goals and go after things, create things so we have to be more than just happy to be here.
- [87:28]
A
Yes.
- [87:28]
B
But that doesn't mean that if we are ambitious that we quit respecting and giving gratitude for the fact that I'm happy I'm here. I respect this situation. I respect the position I'm in this table to talk to you, that we're here to talk to everyone here that set up the camera, that we're able to do this. I'm not in jail right now. There's a whole list of long things. I'm happy, I'm not. You know, we can, we can. That's, that's never, that never goes out of style to go, go underneath where we are to lesser, harder situations and just realize this is cool.
- [88:10]
A
Yeah.
- [88:10]
B
This is cool to be here. So what. So when we, when we do that, we're going to give more, again, more meaning to this. More, more value to it. I'm going to be more generous. Going to, it's going to, it's going to work not only for me, it's going to work better for you. It's going to work better for you. It's going to work for all of us. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's the kind of epidemic we want.
- [88:28]
A
It's a win, win, win.
- [88:29]
B
Yeah.
- [88:30]
A
Win for us to win for others and the world.
- [88:32]
B
Gratitude epidemic is not being a delusional optimist.
- [88:35]
A
Right?
- [88:36]
B
And no, don't, don't be a fool. You know, I'm not running around going, no, nothing's ever hard. Everything's always great. No, it's not. You know, no, no, I'm always happy. No, you're not. Maybe you're not digging deep enough because you're always happy. Are you really chasing the things that have meaning in your life? Because things that have meaning take maintenance. They break down. It hurts, it sucks. We get bruised, we try to tickle, but we end up pinching. It doesn't always come in and going. It doesn't always, doesn't always work. It takes maintenance.
- [89:12]
A
What's the thing you struggle with the most in your life right now after all this success outwardly?
- [89:17]
B
Yeah.
- [89:17]
A
All the, the what seems like a lot of love, a lot of inner peace, a lot of family, community, connection, service impact. Now greater than just your talent and your on screen, but also changing lives and touching people emotionally and spiritually with your, your message. What is your biggest struggle at this season of life?
- [89:37]
B
Am I doing enough? And is what I'm doing, I'm not doing it the right way? The Best. I, I need accomplishment for significance.
- [89:55]
A
Interesting.
- [89:58]
B
Oh, she didn't as much at the same time like glad you do need that if you didn't have that again. Like the times I was talking earlier, being arrogant put me in situations to get humbled.
- [90:09]
A
Sure, sure.
- [90:09]
B
I mean if I didn't want accomplishment, I was like, okay, well nothing wrong with that. But I, but I, I, I, I, you know, I say this, we talk about a midlife crisis and then I heard there's this thing called quarter life crisis. Okay. We're going to 10, like 10 year old crisis. Whatever, whatever these crisis are. The, the, the, the original one which was kind of titled the midlife crisis. Right. I think 1. Bravo. Way to go. You're, you're, you're turning the page. You're wanting to do more. You're wanting to. Bravo. Way to make it hard on yourself at the right way at the right time after you usually have already accomplished quite a bit. But don't forget this. Let's go back to gratitude. And this is where a lot of people I think get hung up in the midlife crisis wanting to do more and something different. It's great. But not at the expense of disrespecting what you've already done, right?
- [91:06]
A
Not discounting what you've done.
- [91:07]
B
No. And too many of us discount, oh, I've done nothing. Oh, that's not worth anything. Oh, it's the stuff I built when usually. No, that is something. No, that is something. And when I say give yourself credit for that, that doesn't mean trust that you're not going to go, oh, okay then I actually don't want to do more new stuff. I'm cool. It's not like you're going to go just retire and go to the beach or play golf or quit doing anything. But it doesn't cancel that your ambitions out. But we need to be more, give more respect to what we've already built and then we'll take on our midlife crisis, which I'm going to return that something. Crisis. I don't like the word crisis on that. But you're still ambitious. You can be ambitious and have an entrepreneur spirit to want to go change things in your life while still respecting. I think you actually think you'll find more and do more of what you want to do the best way for yourself. When you do have a respect and a connection to your lineage of what you actually have built and the credit, give yourself credit for what you have built to this point. Cancel that out. So I need to Feel like I'm barren to go forward. No, that's going to help you. This next story is connected to that one. All right, then it's not a new book. It's the same book. It's just a new chapter we're looking for. Right. Those stories are connected. It's the same hardcover. We don't start over in our lives and start a new book. Start a new chapter, maybe. And those things that we like to tell ourselves, oh, it's a new chapter. They're usually just commas. Those things that we like to say. Oh, it's the end of the book. It's usually just a period at the end of the paragraph. Those things we go, no, it's a whole new means of communicating. It's a, it's, it's, it's a new encyclopedia. No, it's just a new chapter in the same book. We only get one book. Right.
- [92:57]
A
But I got three final questions for you. This first one is about significance, because we mentioned significance and everything has significance, but not everything is significant. Yeah, I think is what you said. I'm going to butcher this, but it's something like 20 years ago, one of the things that most kids grew up wanting to be was like an astronaut. Now it's the number one thing as a YouTuber or like an influencer. And it just seems like the, the youth wants fame and success and influence more than ever before, essentially wanting significance. Right. Wanting to be significant and significance.
- [93:39]
B
Yeah.
- [93:39]
A
What is your thoughts on fame? You know, having been famous for a long time now and experienced probably the, the, the juice of it, the pleasures of it, and also some of the stuff that's not so nice.
- [93:52]
B
Sure.
- [93:52]
A
What is your thoughts on fame that you want people to know, whether in their youth or at any stage of life, on what it is, what it isn't, and how to manage it when you got it?
- [94:04]
B
Sure. Fame before you go. I want to be famous, which is great. Ambition, fun. I'm famous. I'm, I'm. I'm glad. It's, it's the access it's given me. Been. It's, it's, it's definitely in the black in my life. It comes with its harder challenging things like loss of anonymity. I don't meet strangers anymore. I do something, say something. It's out there. I can feel the energy of the world, whether it's pro or con, how they, what they think about it, whether it's true or whether it's not, whether it's completable or whether it's valid. But don't say before you say I want to be famous. Let's find table that, Scoot that over. For what? We all want to be relevant. I do. You better damn sure ask herself. Relevant for what? What do you want to do really? Well, what do you want to do? Do you have an innate ability for that you're willing to work for that maybe you can become an expert on, or maybe you can, maybe you're just really good at winging it. But what do you want to do that, that, that could give you fame, but fame without, without a, an understanding of a structure, of a, of a competence, of a skill. In my experience, is, is a, is a, is a real sort of vapid mirage of a moving target because there's, you know, the old word 15 minutes of fame. There are fads that come in and out all the time that are very seasonal. We could do heat seek and chase them and we do all the time. I got nothing against that. But understand that that may not be lasting. And when you are going to do something that you think, oh, this is going to get me more likes or give me some fame, just check in with yourself and go, well, if that goes out of fashion or if in 10 years, as far as you can project 20 years, 30 years, four years, am I going to still feel like I will stand by that? Just, just, just, just measure yourself. Give yourself a little projection before you go. Because we can do stuff right now to get famous that we will absolutely regret tomorrow, but tonight we going to be famous. Maybe have a little sense of delayed gratification and project forward of what the possible consequences of what you're doing to get attention and fame will be. And bet on yourself. Just bet on yourself. Because the best way, if we can, is to build something and be competent. Something where it's a, Even if it goes out of style, it will be looked back going, nope, that person did that really well. That's what they were known for. And even though we don't do that anymore, things have changed or the medium has changed. When that was happening, that person was doing it well. So ask that because we're tempted and we're rewarded for a lot of things that can make us famous that are going to give us a proverbial hangover one day. Check in with those things. Yeah, all right. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a slippery line. It's very tempting. But give yourself enough credit, give yourself more credit to Go. Is this who I really am? Is this who I want to be? Am I doing this because I love it and I'm good at it? Or am I doing this because I think it could get a lot of attention, even though I don't believe in it, even though I'm going to probably regret. Deal with it later. Don't. Hold on. Don't, don't. Don't press in yet. Don't do it, don't do it. Hang on, hang on. Time is more on your side than you think. So just watch what you put out. And also, things was like. And I'm gleaning back into social media that we just were simple reminders for all of us adults and our children. Just remember those things you say, those likes and those dislikes. They're gonna outlive you. They're gonna outlive me. They're gonna outlive all of us. They will be on our record. They will be on our great, great, great, great, great, great grandchildren record. Just think about a little bit. Just have a. Have a little touch to take a little inventory before you go. Yeah.
- [98:56]
A
And a follow up to that. What's the number one skill you wish you would have either learned or mastered before, you know, becoming really famous?
- [99:06]
B
The number one skill to be able
- [99:08]
A
to manage it or, or, you know, navigate it?
- [99:12]
B
The number one skill for me would have been. And I did learn this about five years in my career. But preparation. I had a run early on my career where I thought I could just. I was better if I just winged it. Like, oh, no. If I get prepared, I'm getting too mental. I'm thinking too much. I'm getting too hem. Lesion. I'm getting. No, no, no. I'm an instinct guy, all right? And I embarrassed it out of my. In a movie, in a role. And I. One of the most regretful things I've ever done. It's so embarrassing. And I learned preparation on that day. And I still prepare. And I prepare so I can have freedom, so I can wing it, so I can throw a chunk the script away and go. Let's dance. Call audible. Game time. They didn't play the defense. We thought they were. We're reading the defense, shot the playbook. Here's what we're running then. It's really fun.
- [100:04]
A
Yeah.
- [100:04]
B
You know, but that comes. You can only do that if you prepare the right way. Your playbook or your roadmap, whatever it is. And I didn't understand that early. Yeah. Luckily I figured it out and I still got to Work and. Got it. Yeah, sure, sure.
- [100:21]
A
I've got two final, two final questions. That was a follow up, so I'm adding two more real quick. I want to acknowledge you, McConaughey, for not half assing it. I know it's something that your dad talked about is that, you know, if you're going to go on this dream, this career, this path, don't half ass it. And I love the, the nod you added at the end of your book about not half assing it. So I really acknowledge you for not half assing it in every stage and season of life that you've gone after. And I really acknowledge you for how you've been able to be successful and also have a really beautiful marriage and be a beautiful father. And I know you talk about how you have C's and lots of these areas you talked about. Not A's.
- [101:05]
B
Yeah.
- [101:06]
A
But the fact that you keep living the way you do and showing up with your heart, open hearted in service to people. I really acknowledge that for you, Matthew, for, for your. Your willingness to want to teach constantly and at the same time being a student.
- [101:20]
B
Amen.
- [101:21]
A
Of life.
- [101:22]
B
Thank you. I'm trying. I'm trying. He said, I ain't making agent off. I'm trying. As you know, part of that's the deal. If we can get the right playbook and just keep getting back in the game each day, we ain't gonna get there. We ain't gonna get to the tada moment of, oh, I got it all figured out, that ain't happening.
- [101:38]
A
Sure.
- [101:38]
B
But if we can see how far along we can get while we're here. Amen.
- [101:43]
A
I asked you this question before, so these final two questions, I'll ask them quickly. The first one is called my three truths question. I asked you this before. If people want to see what those are, we'll have linked up the previous interview. We can see and compare your, your last interview, what your three truths were.
- [101:59]
B
Okay.
- [101:59]
A
To today, a couple years later. A lot has happened in the last couple years and here's the question. You get to live as long as you want. You get to continue to create, make art, write books, do programs, movies, everything you want to do. You get to do forever for as long as you live, but then the lights go out at some point.
- [102:18]
B
Okay. When they do not. Like you're not saying, like if you live forever.
- [102:21]
A
No, no, you're gonna live for as long as you want, you know, another 50, 100, whatever years, however long you can extend your life.
- [102:27]
B
Okay.
- [102:27]
A
Then one day you got to turn off the lights.
- [102:29]
B
I'm pretty sure, yeah. And.
- [102:32]
A
And you create and accomplish everything. Let's say you got another list of 20 goals. They all happen, you know, just like you do did in 1992.
- [102:38]
B
Yeah.
- [102:39]
A
But for whatever reason, all of your work, all the movies content is gone. Hypothetical.
- [102:46]
B
Okay?
- [102:46]
A
All gone. No one has access to it in this world anymore.
- [102:49]
B
Ever.
- [102:51]
A
But you get to leave behind three truths with the world. And this is all we would have of your wisdom and information. Three lessons.
- [103:01]
B
Three truths that you getting rolling right now. We're not taking a time out before this answer. I get to come back write this one in on an email. Oh my goodness.
- [103:10]
A
Three truths. Whatever is.
- [103:11]
B
I answered this before last time.
- [103:13]
A
I did answer this before.
- [103:15]
B
Can you tell me what I said?
- [103:16]
A
I'll tell you afterwards.
- [103:17]
B
Oh geez. Three truths.
- [103:19]
A
Whatever's on your heart or your mind.
- [103:20]
B
Three truths. When in doubt, make sense of humor, your default emotion. Don't make a straight line crooked. And loving your kids mama is one of the best things you can do as a parent.
- [103:54]
A
Final question. What's your definition of greatness?
- [103:57]
B
Of greatness? Greatness. Greatness par excellence. What is greatness? Not perfection. Greatness. Pursuit, capture and proof at the highest mortal level. Yeah, I like that one.
- [104:25]
A
That's good. Capture and proof at the highest mortal level. You want to see one more time?
- [104:31]
B
Yes. Pursuit, capture and proof at the highest mortal level. Amen. I'll go with that. All right.
- [104:39]
A
I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description the of for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links and if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness+channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing from feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something Great. Confidence. It's listening to your gut. It's moving forward even when the path ahead is unclear.
- [105:41]
B
For nearly 160 years, Pacific Life has helped people keep their promises, building confidence for generations. Whether you're confident in your financial future or just beginning to envision it. We're here to help. Ask a financial professional how Pacific Life the Power of a Promise Pacific Life Insurance Company, Omaha, Nebraska and in New York, Pacific Life and Annuity, Phoenix, Arizona. Hello, I'm Ozempic and I'm other GLP
- [106:06]
A
ones kind of like him. Are you shaking a maraca?
- [106:09]
B
Nope.
- [106:09]
A
I'm shaking the pill version of Ozempic,
- [106:11]
B
which no one should ever do except in ads like this. Nice disclaimer.
- [106:14]
A
Hey, thanks. Ask your doctor about which FDA approved uses of the Ozempic pen or pill
- [106:18]
B
may be right for you. Call 1-833-OZEMPIC or visit ozempic.com to view
- [106:22]
A
the medication guide and learn more about
- [106:24]
B
ozempic semaglutide tablets 9 milligrams and ozempic semagLutide injection, 2 milligrams. There's a pill version of Ozempic.