People I (Mostly) Admire – Episode 1: Steven Pinker: "I Manage My Controversy Portfolio Carefully"

Podcast: People I (Mostly) Admire
Host: Steve Levitt (co-author of Freakonomics)
Guest: Steven Pinker (Harvard psychologist, linguist, and public intellectual)
Date: January 3, 2026

Episode Overview

In this debut episode, Steve Levitt sits down with Steven Pinker for a wide-ranging conversation about rationality, human progress, language, environmental challenges, and living a good life. Levitt and Pinker dive into Pinker’s views on reason, the psychological biases that shape our perceptions, the future of climate action, the evolution of language, and the nature of controversy in academia. Throughout, Pinker’s measured optimism and data-driven worldview provide a hopeful counter-narrative to present-day pessimism.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Case for Rationality and Progress

• Pinker’s Main Argument

  • Pinker summarizes his book "Enlightenment Now" as an argument for addressing problems through reason, science, and humanism with the explicit goal of maximizing human well-being.
    • "It argues that we ought to deal with our problems by increasing our knowledge... if we do that, we can succeed. Namely, progress is a fact." (03:18)
  • He supports this with empirical data showing improvements in lifespan, health, wealth, education, and happiness over the last 200 years.

• Why Many Disagree Despite the Evidence

  • Media tends to report sudden disasters, skewing public perception.
    • “Journalism presents a systematically biased sample of world experience, namely by covering things that happen, especially things that happen suddenly." (04:19)
  • Both the political left and right have ideologically driven pessimism about the world:
    • "For those on the hard left... to say that... things are better than they were 30 years ago... is a kind of heresy." (05:49)
    • The right often sees the Enlightenment as a mistake, preferring traditional institutions.

2. The Importance of Rational Thinking

• Teaching Rationality
  • Pinker advocates for rationality—Bayesian reasoning, distinguishing correlation from causation, logical fallacies—to be part of everyone's education, ideally beginning in high school.
    • “Any educated person should know what Bayesian reasoning is, or statistical decision theory... how to tell correlation from causation, how to avoid logical fallacies and critical thinking fallacies." (06:54)
  • Levitt laments the lack of practical mathematics in schools and Pinker agrees, suggesting curriculum should prioritize statistical reasoning over, say, trigonometry (08:18).

3. Climate Change: Technological and Psychological Barriers

• Straight Talk on Energy and Policy
  • Pinker underlines that climate change mitigation hinges on scalable carbon-free energy, including nuclear power.
    • “There is no energy economy that's scalable that can rely on solar and wind alone… it advocates nuclear power being in the mix because... it's probably the safest source of energy.” (11:20)
  • Obstacles to nuclear are psychological, not technological:
    • "All the things that distort our assessment of risk... are kind of a perfect storm that turned the world away from nuclear." (13:48)
  • Collective action on technologies for carbon capture is necessary; markets alone will not suffice. Pinker agrees with Levitt's suggestion of a 'Manhattan Project' approach for carbon removal. (16:20)

4. Violence and the Role of Religion in Morality

• On "The Better Angels of Our Nature"
  • Levitt praises Pinker’s humorous Old Testament summary, which highlights the prevalence of violence in traditional morality systems.
    • "With the world population of exactly four, that works out to a homicide rate of 25%." (21:02)
    • The story of Dinah illustrates how vengeance, not morality as we now know it, underpinned ancient codes (22:01–23:17).
  • Pinker argues that morality has evolved and should not be conflated with ancient religious doctrine.
    • "The God of the Old Testament basically works by the moral code of the Corleones, namely, you do something that insults me and I'll murder you and your family." (23:45)
    • Enlightenment was the era when commitment to truth and evidence extended beyond the everyday to broader domains. (25:05)

5. Controversy and Intellectual Courage

• Managing a "Controversy Portfolio"

  • Pinker is thoughtful about which controversies to enter, typically when he has relevant expertise and believes in clarifying the public debate.
    • "I manage my controversy portfolio carefully... I don't just sign on to any old controversy." (27:15)
  • On defending Larry Summers: Pinker defended statistical arguments about gender differences misrepresented in public debate (28:16–29:36).

• Public Perception and Persuasion

  • Pinker cares about persuading others—not just provoking outrage—but acknowledges that controversy is sometimes useful for advancing truth.
    • "I make an argument because I think that it's, to the best of my judgment, true and explanatory." (29:40)

6. The Complexity and Evolution of Language

• Why Languages Are Complicated

  • Languages encode complex ideas, develop through both memory (words/irregularities) and rules (syntax/grammar), and are shaped collectively through historic transmission.
    • "You've got memory, you've got rules, and you've got community sharing and historical transmission. You put them together and things that start off... nice and tidy... can then... get complicated and exceptions pile up." (33:31)
  • Complexity and simplicity oscillate over time; no language is "perfect" as a world language, not even Esperanto, due to trade-offs between ease of speaking and hearing (37:12).

• Language Learning & Childhood vs. Adulthood

  • Pinker’s research shows the brain’s optimal window for learning grammar extends to adolescence (~17), but doesn’t slam shut after.
    • "With some mathematical modeling, we estimated... ability to soak up the grammar... only takes place around 17..." (40:40)
  • For adults, success in language means engaging in conversation and applying conscious strategies, even if fluency doesn’t come as easily.

7. Living a Good Life

• Pinker’s Closing Advice
  • Embrace a "benign hypocrisy" to maintain social harmony and be grateful for what’s going right, while treating problems as solvable challenges:
    • "You've got to live a life of a certain amount of benign hypocrisy... Perhaps one other thing is to be grateful for what's gone right." (45:23)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Progress and Media Bias:
  • "You never read about it, read about all the wars and the pandemics and the riots and the terrorist attacks. So unless you are nerdy enough to get your view of the world from graphs and data, you can miss the spectacular improvements that have taken place." (04:19)
• On Rationality in Education:
  • "If it's a choice between trigonometry and say, Bayesian reasoning or conditional probability, it's just obvious what kinds of mathematics have the greatest impact..." (08:18)
• On Climate Policy and Technology:
  • "If there's a technology that makes clean energy cheaper than dirty energy, then no one has to be persuaded." (14:40)
• On Morality and Religion:
  • "The God of the Old Testament basically works by the moral code of the Corleones..." (23:45)
• On Intellectual Courage:
  • "I manage my controversy portfolio carefully." (27:15)
• On Language Complexity:
  • "It's not like a computer programming language where someone sits down the rules. It's kind of a wiki that develops historically..." (33:31)
• On Language Learning:
  • "Making up for the decline in underlying fluency and facility by applying intellect..." (41:36)
• On Living Well:
  • "There'll always be things that go wrong and to appreciate when things are going right and not always focus on the remaining problems..." (45:23)

Important Timestamps

• 03:18 – Pinker summarizes "Enlightenment Now" and outlines the case for progress
• 04:19 – Discussion on media bias and perceptions of decline
• 06:54 – On rational tools everyone should know
• 11:20 – Pinker’s balanced take on climate change and energy policy
• 16:20 – Argument for collective scientific efforts in combating climate change
• 21:02 – Humorous summary of Old Testament violence rates
• 23:45 – Pinker on biblical morality and human progress
• 27:15 – Pinker on managing controversy and intellectual courage
• 33:31 – How languages become complex over time
• 40:40 – Latest research on age and language learning
• 45:23 – Final advice on gratitude, problem-solving, and benign hypocrisy

Tone and Style

Throughout the episode, both Levitt and Pinker maintain an engaging, conversational, and intellectually curious tone. Pinker’s humor and wit, especially in his discussion of the Bible and linguistics, make complex topics accessible and memorable. Levitt’s willingness to reveal personal stories of failure and curiosity keeps the dialogue lively and authentic.

Summary for New Listeners:
This episode is an ideal primer on Steven Pinker’s worldview: reasoned optimism, data-driven analysis, and a commitment to rational discourse—even in the face of controversy. Through relatable anecdotes and clear explanations, Pinker and Levitt offer deep insights into progress, risk, education, language, and the challenges of modernity, making this a must-listen for anyone interested in what it means to think well and live meaningfully in today’s world.