Podcast Title: People I (Mostly) Admire
Host/Author: Freakonomics Radio + Stitcher
Episode: 150. His Brilliant Videos Get Millions of Views. Why Don’t They Make Money?
Release Date: February 1, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of People I (Mostly) Admire, Steve Levitt engages in a deep and revealing conversation with Hank Green, a multifaceted content creator known for his impactful YouTube channels, Crash Course and SciShow. The discussion delves into the challenges of monetizing high-quality online content, the economics of internet platforms, the intricacies of higher education, Hank’s journey as an author, and his personal battle with cancer.

Hank Green's Journey with YouTube

Hank Green begins by recounting the origins of his YouTube presence:

Hank Green [02:20]: "My guest today, Hank Green, is responsible for some of the best content you can find on the Internet. His company, Complexly, which he co-founded with his brother John Green, has over a dozen YouTube shows, including the incredibly popular Crash Course and SciShow."

He explains how vlogbrothers, launched in 2007, was inspired by Ze Frank's daily video project. The experiment aimed to craft a reliable, engaging content stream without overcomplicating the production process:

Hank Green [03:13]: "In 2007, my brother and I had been fans of this Guy called Ze Frank... We went into this and it was like, here's the rules. We're going to make videos. They can't be longer than four minutes... And this is how we're gonna do our brotherhood for a year."

Creation and Impact of Crash Course and SciShow

The conversation shifts to the pivotal moments when YouTube launched its Original Channel Initiative, allocating substantial funds to creators:

Hank Green [06:48]: "They wanted to create new YouTube channels... to bump up the credibility of the platform."

This initiative led to the creation of Crash Course and SciShow, which Hank describes as responses to both personal passion and strategic collaboration with his brother:

Hank Green [08:15]: "When somebody says like, hey, we could give you half a million dollars to do something... I had like 20 ideas and I sent them all to John, and one of them was SciShow. And John had one idea and it was Crash Course."

The success of these channels is highlighted by their massive subscriber bases and view counts:

Hank Green [09:37]: "Crash Course has 15 million subscribers and roughly 2 billion video views. SciShow has over 8 million subscribers and 1 or 2 billion views."

A particularly memorable episode discussed is Hank’s explanation of how an ancient Roman shipwreck contributes to modern particle physics:

Hank Green [10:47]: "And the physicists were like, give us 10% of your lead and we'll get all of it up... so we could discover like how the universe started."

Funding Challenges and Economics

Despite the astronomical viewership, Hank outlines the financial struggles of sustaining such high-quality content:

Hank Green [15:09]: "Even when you count up all of the stuff that we made 10 years ago... ad revenue does not add up to being able to pay for the next season of Crash Course."

He critiques the current internet monetization model, highlighting the inefficiency of ad revenue and the limitations of crowdfunding:

Hank Green [16:15]: "The economics of Internet are strange because some people out there are willing to produce okay content and give it away for free."

Hank expresses frustration over the constant need to secure funding, which detracts from his passion for creating content:

Hank Green [17:38]: "It is exhausting running businesses that are, like, it is not clear what the model is."

Steve Levitt adds an economic perspective, labeling the situation as a market failure due to the positive externalities generated by Hank’s work:

Steve Levitt [18:51]: "And that's a real market failure because, to put it in economic terms, there is an enormous positive externality that you create."

Higher Education and Study Halls

Transitioning to education, Hank discusses Study Hall, a collaborative initiative with Arizona State University (ASU) aimed at making higher education more accessible and affordable:

Hank Green [25:39]: "So we are like, okay, how do we use all of the things that all of us have YouTube has money. ASU has students and courseware and accreditation... How do we pull that into something that's the most helpful?"

He highlights the exorbitant costs of higher education and the systemic issues that discourage student retention:

Hank Green [28:01]: "Higher ed is too expensive and carves out a lot of people who could benefit society if they got more education."

The model offers free YouTube videos with optional paid support and accreditation, presenting a stark contrast to traditional university expenses:

Hank Green [28:04]: "The videos are freely available to anyone on YouTube. However, if you want the support of ASU, you can pay $25 to join a cohort... and then at the end, students can pay $400 to get college accreditation for the course."

Hank Green’s Writing and Cancer Experience

Hank delves into his experiences as an author, balancing fiction and nonfiction pursuits. He reflects on the challenges of writing novels post his brother John's success with The Fault in Our Stars:

Hank Green [33:26]: "I'm trying to imagine myself in your shoes. And you know what? The last thing I think I would have done? Try writing novels..."

He discusses his first book, An Absolutely Remarkable Thing, and its portrayal of internet fame as a double-edged sword:

Hank Green [35:13]: "Without giving away too many spoilers, the characters in your book become Internet famous. But your portrayal of Internet fame... it's a real mixed bag."

Hank reveals his personal battle with Hodgkin’s lymphoma, sharing his candid approach to discussing his illness publicly:

Hank Green [41:07]: "Initially, I was frustrated that I had to because it took the decision away from me."

He recounts creating a stand-up comedy act, Hank Green Pissing Out Cancer, as a coping mechanism during treatment:

Hank Green [48:30]: "I started to really get into the craft. I journaled when I was sick... and some of that stuff became the seed for, like writing it into a whole long thing."

Hank emphasizes the importance of vulnerability and honesty in his communication about cancer:

Hank Green [44:30]: "You talked with vulnerability and honesty and none of the false bravado that usually comes along with cancer."

Handling Mistakes and Criticism

The episode also explores how Hank navigates errors and criticism, both in personal life and professional endeavors:

Morgan Levy [56:43]: "A listener named Armando from Puerto Rico wrote with a question he wants to know, with such a big platform, public platform, how do you handle being wrong?"

Hank shares his philosophy on acknowledging and correcting mistakes:

Hank Green [57:21]: "I think I'm unusually open to recognizing and acknowledging my mistakes... I expect to make a lot of mistakes."

He differentiates between handling errors in academic papers versus public content:

Hank Green [58:10]: "In academics, any mistakes, even the smallest ones, are hugely costly... Stephen Dubner and I wrote a New York Times piece on it, just saying, hey, we made the mistake and here's the truth."

Conclusion

Steve Levitt concludes the conversation by highlighting Hank's upcoming projects and acknowledging the multifaceted nature of his work:

Hank Green [56:03]: "If you'd like to watch Hank Green's stand up show Pissing Out Cancer, it's available at the website Dropout tv... My daughter Sophie, is a Hank green superfan..."

The episode wraps up with mentions of future episodes and shows, leaving listeners with a comprehensive understanding of Hank Green’s endeavors and the underlying challenges faced by content creators in the digital age.

Notable Quotes:

• Hank Green [02:20]: "Hank Green's YouTube channels are just the tip of the iceberg. He also hosts multiple podcasts, is a musician, runs big charitable endeavors, and is the author of two New York Times best selling novels."

• Hank Green [15:09]: "Even when you count up all of the stuff that we made 10 years ago... ad revenue does not add up to being able to pay for the next season of Crash Course."

• Hank Green [16:15]: "People try it over and over again. What we ended up with instead is a system of crowdfunding that I think isn't terrible. I think it's better than advertising."

• Hank Green [25:39]: "So we are like, okay, how do we use all of the things that all of us have YouTube has money. ASU has students and courseware and accreditation... How do we pull that into something that's the most helpful?"

• Hank Green [35:13]: "Without giving away too many spoilers, the characters in your book become Internet famous. But your portrayal of Internet fame... it's a real mixed bag."

• Hank Green [44:30]: "You kind of hinted as we started this conversation about cancer, that you had a carefully crafted image that you had created of the happy go lucky science communicator. But in a way, that one video you did where you introduced your cancer... showed your real character in a way that was really powerful and honest."

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from Episode 150 of People I (Mostly) Admire, offering listeners a nuanced understanding of Hank Green’s professional achievements, personal challenges, and the broader economic and societal issues surrounding digital content creation and education.