In this episode, Kaila and Kyle debate whether or not taking a real vacation even exists anymore, and provide tactics for how to protect your off time. Can you ever really fully log off in a world with flexible working conditions? And how can we reclaim PTO?

00:00 Intro

02:20 How we got to the state of the working “vacation”

06:59 The real vs imagined expectations of your employer

11:08 Setting clear expectations with your team

14:32 Flexibility’s pros and cons

21:27 The other reason we can’t fully log off anymore

25:20 Other tactics for getting your vacation time back

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Each week on Per My Last Email, Morning Brew’s resident career experts Kaila and Kyle – whose careers have collectively spanned the corporate, government, nonprofit and startup sectors – debate the trickiest challenges in work life, and share tactics on how to overcome them. Share the show with a friend, and leave us a review on your favorite podcast app!