Qasim Aslam (4:25)

I love creative.

Ralph Burns (4:26)

He loves creative. All right, so part of the whole customer acquisition application super system is probably the most important part. And one of the things that we start off immediately and we realize that a lot of companies, whether it's a PI law firm or whether it's a service based business, doesn't matter what it is. The avatar, the messaging and the who of who we're trying to target as far as messaging goes is really off. Most cases we see really generic ads. If it's an E commerce company, it's just a picture of the product, not anything about the actual benefits of it. More on the features. Nothing about their wants and fears and the voice of that client or that customer, that potential prospect of what they actually get when they purchase that product, what problem it solves, what deep sort of inner desire it achieves. Like all these things are really, really important. And the creative lab side of the equation is super important. Now in personal injury law it's pretty set. I mean there's not going to be a whole lot of different types of avatars Here. And that's why it's kind of fun to work in the same space because you can roughly duplicate the same types of avatars. You know, there are some regional differences in most cases, but in most cases, Kassim, we're really going through a pretty in depth specific to that PI law firm and who their avatar, who they think their avatar is. At the end of the day, come out with two avatars and one is really ideal for Google search ads and the other one is ideal for meta ads or for more interruption based marketing. And we haven't done much with YouTube ads for these guys as of yet. But that sort of interrupted intent type of video ad might work really well to layer on a combination of both of these avatars. But for our case study here, we really had very two specific types of avatars and each needed its own messaging, its own optimization, its own bidding strategy. And they were very distinct. And how we did this originally and now we can sort of do this more or less in a templated way for a lot of personal injury law firms is that we'll use customer reviews from their site and then we'll use interviews from their founder, from their director of marketing, and then we might go into customer surveys, we might even listen in and some call recordings if it's not something that is non HIPAA compliant. And we'll get into exactly what that avatar is thinking and feeling. And like I said, in most cases for personal injury law, especially in the car accident niche, there's two big avatars. And like I said, one is good for Google and the other one is unmeta. So in this particular case, we call this avatar for Google Ads accident. Andy, he's just been in an auto accident, probably one of the worst, crappiest moments of his life. He just needs to talk to somebody right now. Begins that search on Google. He's looking for an immediate, immediate way to resolve the problem that he has. And he's probably pissed off. He might even need to go to the doctor. He's maybe concerned how much time he's going to lose at work and he's kind of worried about his financial needs. Like what is this going to mean for me? Is my insurance going to cover this? Is my medical insurance going to cover it and trying to put this behind him as soon as possible. So what we found is that this avatar is fairly consistent no matter what state or what city they're in. And it's one that works really, really well. So in this colors, how we talk to this individual in our Google Ads and then we'll lay that into our Meta ads as well. As we look at avatar number two, there's not as many people on Meta going out there and searching for personal injury lawyers. Yes, it does happen. If you have a leaky faucet, you know your toilet is leaking and flooding your downstairs, you're probably not going to go to Facebook. You will go to Google to find the plumber to get over or maybe shut off the water would be probably a first move. The point is, is each one of these platforms has its own place. Meta is more for the avatar that was in an accident. Maybe it's been a month or two since the accident and they're focusing on recovering and healing but the bills are starting to pile up and they see an ad for a personal injury lawyer in their Facebook feed. Chances are Facebook kind of knows that you've been in an accident based upon your Google searches, based upon the things that you like and you share and you're commenting on inside Facebook and all the other activ. Once Again, Facebook has 55,000 plus data points on you. Chances are if your targeting is right and your advertising is right, you're going to be picking up these types of people anyway based upon really good targeting and all the data.

Qasim Aslam (8:52)

So bet money 85% of people who get into a car accident post on Facebook. Oh my goodness, I was just in a car accident. Doesn't have to be really good targeting. It's just right down the middle of the lane, you know what I mean? That's a life event that most people are public about.

Ralph Burns (9:06)

Yeah, so true. Yeah, I didn't even think of that. But that's like everyone wants to share like they're oh so sorry, you know what I mean? My father in law just passed away this past week and we had to like tell all the kids don't post anything on social, you know what I mean?

Qasim Aslam (9:22)

Even thought about that. What an interesting problem.

Ralph Burns (9:24)

It was really. It was. Yeah, it was super interesting and we had to deal with it and thankfully everyone did which was great because we wanted other people to know, not find out through social media, like make phone calls and everything else. But yeah, you're so right. Oh my God, it's so true. Anyway, so Facebook doesn't have to be super smart. They just have to read posts from people to kind of.

Qasim Aslam (9:45)

Which we know they do.

Ralph Burns (9:46)

That's what you're saying. Which they, they are doing that anyway, I'm fairly certain. So maybe you're posting about the fact that your bills are piling up and stress of making ends meet. Or maybe the pain in your leg is all of a sudden start to get worse and you're asking for help. Hey, does anybody know a chiropractor? I will guarantee you Facebook knows who's been in a car accident. I think it's safe to assume. Just like Google can predict who's going to be in a car accident, Facebook knows who's been in one. And this is good for that because this is typically after the accident itself. So once again, two platforms, very different ways in which to attract two different avatars. Now, in some cases, some personal injury law firms don't want avatar number two. They just want the ones who have very clear within the statute of limitations for the law for the state. They don't want Avatar 2, which is fine. And we have some PI firms that do that as well. But the point is, is they're on there. If you're targeting, you have to sort of think about your business like, where is my avatar hanging out? And they might be at different phases of the customer journey, so to speak. And that's certainly the case here. So how we talk to them through copywriting is through empathy and through hope, through clarity. And these are some of the things that we use here, like assurance, the ways in which people are in different levels of customer awareness is it colors how our ads are going to be positioned through copywriting. And this goes for both Google and through Facebook. And we do this all through the creative lab, which is a super in depth way of really understanding the avatar. But like I said, in most cases, most personal injury law firms have these two specific avatars. So is this clear so far?

Qasim Aslam (11:24)

Yeah, love this dude. Specifically the way you've segmented your ads here. We don't do any of this, you know, as Google guys, we generally don't need to and we probably should. But bringing the human element into the communication, I think that that's what makes you a really good agency. I just pay attention to data, is all our clients come up with their creative or people come up with it for them. So it's always to me magic watching other people like, oh, here's how this actually functions.

Ralph Burns (11:47)

I mean, it's interesting because I look at this as like old school advertising. It's like really getting into your prospect's head. And this is the stuff that I love more than anything else. It's psychology. It's not manipulating, but at the end of the day it's helping people. And that's the thing that is really great here is that in this law firm, as a number of the law firms that we work with have some great case studies, like video testimonials of people whose lives were destroyed by this event. And thankfully, this helped them, and that's really not only helped them get their life back on track, but it helps, obviously, the law firm from a financial perspective. But everybody wins in this situation. So, yeah, I mean, if you're not talking to your ideal prospect in the conversation, with regard to the conversation that's already going on in their head, it's hard to win in advertising. Unless. I'm not saying that Google discounts this, but I think on Google Ads, there's a little bit less of this element. This is a little bit more on the bottom of the fuck side.

Qasim Aslam (12:41)

Like if you go back to the slide that you were just on, it's like probably problem aware, solution aware. Like we just skip to the very extreme outcome aware, basically. So I don't have to speak to people who are unaware. Problem aware, solution aware, product aware, most aware. I just speak to people who are maybe most aware and outcome aware. And those are way easier conversations. As a matter of fact, they're so easy that you don't have tiles for them because it's obvious, right? It's like, do you need a personal injury attorney? Yes. Great. Click here.

Ralph Burns (13:06)

Boom. Yeah. Yeah, it's that simple. And I mean, I think our copy for a lot of our ads are just that. And it's not really about the copy at that point. It's just making sure your targeting is getting in front of the right people.

Qasim Aslam (13:18)

Dude, you know how we come up with copy? We steal it. This is one of my Twitter threads. We just go look at the highest performing ad copy in that industry and other geographies and then we wholesale rip it off. Because why would I reinvent the wheel? I don't have to be creative with Google, but you have to be creative with Facebook. And what's biting me in the hindquarters right now is you have to be creative with YouTube. So I'm going to come to the school of Ralph Burns and try to get a BS and bs.

Ralph Burns (13:39)

BS and bs. Yeah, we got a lot of BS going on here. But yeah, I mean, I think especially level one traffic for meta. Level one is cold traffic. These are people that, I mean, we were obviously we're targeting them based upon their interests and their tendencies in past Facebook posts complaining about some sort of injury or looking for a chiropractor. But the meta stuff then feeds the Google stuff and Everything starts to work together when you've got both platforms working. So you might create the awareness on Meta and and then they'll go Google, search the law firm's brand name and Google will get last click credit on that. That's fine. You won't really see much on the Facebook side. But what we're seeing is that as soon as you decrease your advertising spend on the Facebook side, all of a sudden the Google side decreases. And I think that's an old story, but it's absolutely true. So both of these platforms really do work together. If you don't have them, you're covering 80% of paid advertising in this particular case or thereabouts. And those two platforms together, especially in this space, they feed off of each other. And if you're using location targeting, really good interest targeting lookalike audiences for that are seed audiences for previous clients, for car accidents, for the personal injury law firm, like those are really good targeting inside meta and obviously inside Google as well. And you know, when you get both of these working together, that's what we refer to as traffic harmonization. So. So in all these ads there's always that psychological element to talking to their fears and talking to their desires. But at the end of the day you also have to remind them why they should contact you and why they should contact you specifically what's your USP and what is the potential reward for doing so. And I think that's an important part to this. So it can't all be this psychological kind of play here. But you still have to say, hey, the end of the day, like you might not be aware that we might actually be able to help you and here's how we can help you better than anybody else. So that's one of the things that I think we try to deploy with each individual customer account and try and do some ads that are maybe a little bit counterintuitive. Instead of just being the lawyer that's arms folded, standing in front of the courthouse with the Doric columns behind him at a slight 15 degree angle, show them in casual clothes and funny videos. One of our clients, which we really can't talk about, they do like funny videos and they've done super bowl ads. It's crazy. Like they don't take themselves too seriously. And I think that's one of the things that really differentiates them in a very competitive market, in the Michigan market. So the point is you have to sort of differentiate but also talk to those desires and those fears, but you're still there to Sell yourself at the same time. So what we found here is that Facebook offered a lower cost per lead per signed case in some cases, but Google was providing the higher quality lead. And in most cases we were not getting the tracking through Facebook. You know, it was either a view through conversion. It didn't show up in Facebook, but it did get tracked over on Google. But the two of them working together, and that's one of the platforms that we're really ramping up right now is the Facebook and the social side because it's far more interruption marketing and not in the spur of the moment like I mentioned before. So what we also did is we expanded to call extensions and Facebook lead form ads. Another sort of part to it. And hit on the call now call to action through a unique Facebook number, which is super important. Unique numbers. I'm sure you use those for a lot of your Google Ads. Qasim, you have to.

Qasim Aslam (17:17)

Yeah, it's the only way to segment now, especially now that tracking is starting to be more difficult based off of other parameters. So that's another really good note for CMOs. Go find a call tracking solution that you like. High Level has one in app call tracking metrics. Call. There's a billion of them. We use call tracking metrics and I'm a big fan. But it's such an easy, simple solution that costs no money and has a massive benefit to you if you use it, right?

Ralph Burns (17:43)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's like one of those little things that people kind of forget about, like ah, it's not really that important. It is actually important. Definitely a takeaway there. We also used Facebook forms to auto populate those forms. Those are hit or miss at times. But we definitely did restrict a lot of our targeting by location, which is obvious because these are regional areas that a lot of these law firms are serving. In this particular one, it was a regional area that's really sort of tight, really small, just based upon a huge geography. So make sure that you use all this sort of stuff and you're not careless with your targeting as well as make sure that you're tracking as best as possible using some unique identifiers. Hey, you know, when I was first a consultant actually doing the stuff that we're doing right now in Tier 11, one of the first tools that I learned how to use was from a company called Unbounce and they are now a sponsor of Perpetual Traffic. And the reason is, is that their landing pages and how quickly you can create those landing pages without having to consult your designer, your developer with drag and drop builders now built in AI copywriting, it's even better than when it was 10 years ago when I first started using it on own to create my very first landing pages. These guys are absolutely amazing. They've got conversion optimized templates giving you everything you need to launch your pages on your own without developers. In fact, Unbounce is the leading landing page platform for building, testing and optimizing high converting pages. Powered by data from over 2 billion conversions. That is 2 billion conversions with a B. That means they know what converts. So if you want to convert more customers one platform and launch pages fast, Unbounce is offering PT listeners a special offer. They are giving you the PT listeners 10% off when you enter coupon code PT10OFF over@unbounce.com PT. So head on over to unbounce.com PT, enter code PT10OFF and cash in today. Convert more customers one platform, launch pages fast. You shouldn't have to wait for your designers and your developers to build and test your landing pages. Get started with Unbounce today. So we found initially and this is back sort of mid year. This is a screenshot that sort of shows the initial results like when we took over. You've got your costs all of a sudden rapidly decreasing as your impression share started moving forward. And our CPC dropped from an average of 24 bucks in our first four to five months down to around $11 and now it's about seven or eight dollars per click. So because the algorithm was just starting to get smarter and smarter, it's like we're seeing our CPCs dropping and dropping and dropping, which isn't the primary metric. Granted it's signed cases at the end of the day, but it's a good way of showing. All right, this is stuff started to change and this was mid summer of last year. You can see by this image costs are decreasing while impressions are increasing. The exact type of thing that you want to see makes my heart go a flutter.

Qasim Aslam (20:52)

Gospel flutter.

Ralph Burns (20:53)

See this? Yeah. When I see beautiful pros. This is beautiful pros. Yep, Things are moving in the right direction. So last but not least, we added this at the end and we actually executed this early part of this year. Everything after the click was all right, we've got things moving in the right direction now. Let's actually add in some optimizations for their landing pages and we'll go through this quickly. They were sending a lot of traffic just to their homepage, which really needed a lot of optimization. This is our conversion architecture section of Customer acquisition amplification, which is our. After the click. And they had this confusing. Above the fold structure, they were using five different font sizes and styles. They didn't have a phone number displayed at the very top of the page. They had confusing copy on the form. There was just a lot of things that we knew we could make changes to. And once again, this is after. Things are kind of moving in the right direction. So this is additive. Oftentimes we might sort of say, well, your landing pages and what we're sending traffic to are such a disaster. We'll do that first. First, and then we'll set up your tracking and then we'll do the Creative Lab. But in this case, they had good enough landing pages. But once we reached a certain level of success, we're like, all right, well, we can start to amplify these results even more using all these ways in which we can improve. So on desktop, things were really a bit of a mess. So we created a much cleaner sort of visual hierarchy. The headline was filled with more of that emotive copywriting that we talked about in the Creative Lab that really speaks to the desires. The phone number was absolutely unmissable on the top of the page. That was key. I think they had, like, a call now button. And then we changed it over to the actual phone number. So it's a prompt for people to get it, not have to click and delay the action on desktop, so that was important. And the call to action, we changed the call to action, which gives the reader an urgent act, which gives the reader an urgent reason to act now, which was super important. On mobile, they had sort of the same things. No phone number on top. They had confusing copy, just a lot of individual things. Here they had no description field in the form. They were getting a lot of spam on mobile, which I know you and I have dealt with with Google Performance Max especially. And they had a lot of it. Not only were they attracting the wrong types of cases, but they were getting a lot of spam forms and fake phone numbers, too. Cleaning up the description field was super important. What we did is we once again put the phone number front and center on the top. Like the most simple things, like if you have a call now button right now and you look at your site today on mobile, call now means they have to click twice in most a lot of cases. In this case, they had to click and then the phone number appeared. So just having the phone number is much more of a visual cue, and it prompts people to call.

Qasim Aslam (23:45)

Well, there's a lot of operating systems that don't recognize the Call now prompt, but would recognize the number. And not that this is an absolute deal breaker, but Call now is not ADA compliant. You want the number, you need the numeric characters shown in order for it to be ADA compliant.

Ralph Burns (24:01)

Good point. Yeah, I didn't even know that. So if you look at your page and this is, I think one of the great things about having a team that does this, this is all that they do. It's hard sometimes for you to get a objective perspective on what's wrong with your website. Do you actually get somebody's outside viewpoints? Like, why don't you have your phone number, your actual phone number on there? Like, the most important thing was missing. So that's ADA compliant or not, or whether it's a visual cue. Like, all these things are so important. And those were the things that really started to make a big difference. But once again, this was all additive, sort of. After the initial success, load time was really slow. We got it up to 98% on desktop, which is really super high. A 98% load time score. We got that. And then we also improved on the mobile side as well. And you can see here inside the Google Ad account exactly what the two different landing pages looks like. As far as spend go. This is our initial spend. And you can see we've got five cases at $3,454 per case. And as soon as we started implementing the new new landing page, we immediately won the split test at a $1,581 cost per signed case. So we lowered that cost per signed case by about 50% just by adding and doing all the things that we mentioned on the desktop and the mobile site. Now, most of the traffic was coming in through mobile because most of our avatars were sort of in the moment right after the car accident because we're using the Google algorithm. The point is, is all of this sort of additively created a pretty tremendous result for these guys. They got 628 cases for about $1,500 a pop. So that is the case study here. Kassim, any questions or anything that was unclear on what we discussed in our rather long case study?

Qasim Aslam (25:56)

I was going to say I feel a little intimidated by your case study building abilities. My case studies are usually like one screenshot and I'm like, cash in, cash out next. So your deep dive here, Ralph, I'm shamed by I should start doing things like that.

Ralph Burns (26:11)

This is like one of those things. There's multi parts to it.

Qasim Aslam (26:14)

Yeah, it's a symphony.

Ralph Burns (26:16)

Yeah, you have to give it credit.

Qasim Aslam (26:17)

Do you build these yourself or does your marketing team do it? Do you have any a.

Ralph Burns (26:20)

We find them through the marketing team and then I end up doing a fair amount of it because it's actually something that I do enjoy doing. But yeah, I mean, I think that the team brings these up. I think the team is so humble, it's hard for them to toot their own horn sometimes.

Qasim Aslam (26:35)

Yeah, I don't have that problem. I lack.

Ralph Burns (26:38)

I know you don't have that problem, but my team sometimes has that problem. So like these guys, I was like, so how are we doing with this particular customer? Oh yeah, we just did this and they're like, yeah, they were spending five grand on a signed case. Now it's down to like 1200. That's what just happened within the last week. So I'm like, oh crap, I should probably put that in this presentation. You should tell people me about how awesome we are. So yeah, they're a bit on the too humble side sometimes. But hey, it's my job to toot their horn. I didn't do any of this. It was the entire team. It was Nick, it was Ollie, it was Maria.

Qasim Aslam (27:14)

Yeah, but you build camp, right? That's your brainchild. Because that thing's. That's wicked smut.

Ralph Burns (27:19)

So, yeah, we definitely did that, but the team actually built that themselves because we were doing it without even knowing it. And now we use it as our framework.

Qasim Aslam (27:26)

I downloaded Camp, by the way. I'm looking at it now.

Ralph Burns (27:29)

So I hope you enjoyed this week's show, that two part series on personal injury law. Of course, if you need our help, you're a personal injury lawyer and you're looking to get the same types of results. Happy to help you over@tier11.com apply or if you're on the service space, just in general, the same thing applies, especially if you have a sale that is happening offline. We talk a lot about offline conversions in these two episodes. We also talk about how the Google and the meta algorithms work together. We're getting the same results now. So it's like it's more of the same. It's just more cases at about the same signed case. So if you're a service based business, if you're a PI lawyer or a personal injury lawyer or you know, you're in the E commerce space, we use this a lot in offline conversions, even in E commerce or in digital products. Check us out over@tiereleven.com apply. So of course, wherever you listen to podcasts, we really do appreciate a rating and review, so be sure to do that. And of course, all, all of the resources that we mentioned on today's show are over@perpetualtraffic.com but you knew that already. And of course, watch the video of this if you want to get even more juicy details@perpetualtraffic.com YouTube so on behalf of my amazing co host, Lauren E. Petrillo, and on behalf of Kasim Aslam, the Voice from way back, he's gone on to other things with his millions of dollars and in the bank. On behalf of those two guys, appreciate you listening. Till next show. See you. You've been listening to Perpetual Traffic.