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Perpetual Traffic
[eComm Business Audit] How to “Fool” Amazon on Google & Grow Your Business to Make More Profit
00:38:14
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- [00:01]
Ralph Burns
Hey folks, Ralph here with something that could seriously upgrade your Top of Funnel ad game. If you've been a PT listener for any period of time, you know that we talk about Top of Funnel all the time and how challenging it is for you to get quality Top of Funnel clients or leads or customers and then convert them typically at bottom of funnel. Well, TV advertising is one of those areas that we haven't discussed here on PT all that much. But our friends over at Ad Critter have figured this stuff out. They do connected TV ads so you can be everywhere without spending millions on super bowl ads. But they pair it with display retargeting. So you're hitting the audiences with a complete approach. You reach them, then you remind them and then you collect the revenue. It's a strategy designed to deliver and let me tell you, it really works. We're testing this at tier 11 and so far the results have been very impressive. Now with Ad Critter, creating custom audiences are so easy. You don't need to reformat files, you don't need to mess around with complex spreadsheets. You just upload any file in any format and you're ready to go. And the match rate is awesome. They make it easy to connect with the right people, the actual people that have interacted with your ads in the past and then allow them to naturally flow through your funnel so you can convert them at bottom of funnel. Now, the folks at AdCritter, we twisted their arm to get us a great deal for you, the PT listener. They are offering a special deal for y'all and that is you can get a $500 campaign credit, meaning $500 in free money to test out the platform or dollar for dollar matching on any TV campaign up to five grand. Imagine the impact of that match spend five grand, they'll add another five grand in display. That's a huge opportunity here. Now it's only offered to you, the PT listener. Head over to AdCritter.com PT and check it out. Hey, it's Ralph here. Let me tell you about a lifestyle brand that we recently worked with where they grew their revenue by 49.8% year over year and hit eight figures in top line revenue for the very first time in their history. And they are now on track for 25 million in revenue in 2025. We are so excited to be working with this company. And the reason why is they started using tier 11 data suite about a year ago and re reduced their unattributed traffic by 90%. That's right. They're unattributed, direct, unknown traffic that probably frustrates the hell out of you. Over in GA4 or one of those other crappy attribution tools, we we reduced that unattributed traffic by 90%, uncovered $850,000 in hidden revenue, and scaled their ad spend by over 3x. These results are not magic. The results of clean, accurate data and a system designed for today's privacy world where everybody is trying to block your data. If you want to see these kinds of results for your business, reach out and let's make it happen over@tier11.com apply and discover how Tier 11 data suite can finally allow you to scale your business, acquiring new customers at a cost you can afford. Head on over to tier11.com apply hello and welcome to the Perpetual Traffic Podcast. This is your host, Ralph Burns. I'm the founder and CEO of Tier 11, not alongside my amazing co host, Lauren Ipatrillo. Today I am solo because we're doing something different here today. We're doing something today that we've never done before, never revealed. We are actually going to listen in on a business audit that we did a few weeks ago that is highly edited. Okay. If you're watching this over on our YouTube channel, there's going to be a lot of confidential information that we're going to discuss here that we're going to blur out. We're going to blot out all of that kind of stuff just to make sure that everything stays pure. And we do maintain confidentiality here. So to maintain the utmost confidentiality, we are also altering voices. We're doing what's called voice conversion. We've never done this on perpetual traffic either. It's a technique that actually alters a witness's voice in the witness protection program. So we want to maintain full confidentiality because both of these guys that are on the call have very distinctive voices. We wanted to make sure that we did maintain that confidentiality. So don't be shocked when you hear them talking and it sounds like somebody who's in the witness protection program. However, I think this is going to be instructive in a number of ways. First off, you're going to learn a lot. I think there's going to be some takeaways here, especially if you're an E commerce business, a premium brand that is struggling to get to the next level. Oftentimes the solution to get to that next level is not more paid traffic. I'm coming to you as a marketing agency and as A former Facebook ads only agency. We do a lot more than that right now. But. But the point is traffic sometimes is not the solution. And when you're looking for a solution to grow your business, oftentimes it's a business problem that you're facing. And you need someone internally or maybe even externally. And that person might be us. If you watch this or listen to this, you might decide, all right, this is the kind of analysis that I need. But the point is, is before you start spending money, and we spend over $200 million a year on all the social platforms, Google meta primarily, we want to make sure that when we spend those dollars, we're spending it like it's our own. And very, very important for either your agency or your team to feel the same way. And before you get to that point, you need to know what the metrics are. You need to understand the business very intimately. And this is something that we do for every client. And I'll just show you here as I share my screen of exactly what we do and what it looks like when we go through this process for a client. And this is the workflow that we use when we start working with clients, from a discovery call all the way through to the real vetting process of figuring out whether or not they have their metrics, they have their goals, very important. Do they have their metrics in place? And what we're really discussing on today's call is right in and around here in our process. So a lot of the things that we talk about here on today's show, you're going to get a fair amount from this because there's going to be, if you're an E commerce brand, there's just some insights that John shares here on the call that I think are going to be invaluable for you, especially if you're selling on Amazon. We talk about ncac, the relationship between ncac, which is the cost to acquire a new customer and lifetime value and what that model is. We also identify churn rate. If you have a continuity program, if you sell products that are consumable goods, which is the case with this client, then what does your continuity program look like? We found that at about three months, that's when most of their clients on their continuity program actually drop off. So they had about a 4% retention rate after about three months. John talks about that in today's show. We also go through how to go through this specific problem, how to diagnose it, where to look inside your Shopify store, where to look inside Your back end CRM. And then we talk about the strategy that we use to double down on the subscription model first and then focus on paid traffic. So you'll learn that here as well. Part of that is perhaps even creating a dedicated sales page for with a subscription focus. So it's going to depend on what your business really is. And then we go through Amazon pricing strategies. About a third of every e commerce product sold on the Internet goes through Amazon. They're the 800 pound gorilla. If you don't price and have a strategy around Amazon and how it integrates with your brand, Amazon is going to take your profits and you're not going to. And there's a couple of different things that John discusses here that we deploy with a lot of our clients in order to make sure that we're in compliance with Amazon, which is called map pricing versus Amazon in store sales and how to transition new customer acquisition over to subscription customers because that's where you make the majority of your profit and it's absolutely the key here. And then there's a strategy that we do discuss is how to advertise on Google as if you are Amazon. And this is something that I don't think anybody's ever really discussed and we reveal it here today. So when you go over to our YouTube channel, which I highly recommend, if you're listening to this and you are in the E commerce space and this applies to you, if you're in the services space as well as in the digital product space, I just spoke with a service based client today that had some of these very same problems. The solutions are very, very similar to what we discuss here in today's show. So it doesn't matter what your business is, a lot of these principles will apply. But I will highly encourage you to head over to our YouTube channel where you can see this. Yes, a lot of it is going to be blurred. And like I said before, we are using voice conversion, so don't be alarmed when you hear it. This is not an audio issue with your headphones or whatever it happens to be. This is just voice conversion. We're just trying to maintain the utmost confidentiality. We're doing this, you know, for the first time ever. So we want to make sure that we maintain confidentiality between ourselves, the client that we're discussing as well as some of the examples that we use with clients that we're currently servicing right now. So definitely check this out over@perpetualtraffic.com YouTube I guarantee you're going to walk away with a Couple of nuggets of gold here. And of course if you need our help, you can always go over to true11.com and we'd be happy to help you there to deploy this kind of strategy to make sure you're set up for success before you even start running paid traffic. So I'll be hopping back in occasionally here on today's episode to make sure you're understanding everything that John is going through. So until that point in time, TJ and John take it away.
- [10:16]
Dean
Foreign.
- [10:19]
Ralph Burns
You'Re listening to Perpetual Traffic.
- [10:27]
John
So John, as for interpreting that evidence.
- [10:29]
Ralph Burns
And where the tea leaves might recommend we all head here, what do you make of this and how do you want to take us through the discussion today?
- [10:35]
John
So I had a chance to dig through the back end of the subscriptions to get some lifetime values, some average order values, the churn rates, etc, knowing that we have about an, I'll call it a round up to nine, you know, $9 profitability per order. Some things that we were looking into is identifying what we would have to consider as a, an NCAC to LTV model. So how much can we pay for a new subscriber and how much money do they make us? The one thing that I don't have access to invisibility for any sort of like lifetime values and that kind of thing is Amazon. I have some strategies that can be deployed in order to help Amazon become more of a lead slash sale generator for us. But looking at just the raw data to say if we were to extrapolate the current data, add a bit of efficiency and scale, would it be profitable? So sort of thinking it kind of like a vc, like if I just dump cash into this model today, is this something that is scalable for return? Kind of how we have to think about it from paid media, the investments, the ad spend. So some things that I were looking into, I've found the area in the back end of the website. This is the current subscription model that you guys use, right. For the website. Okay. So some of the things that I look at are going to be important for churn rate. What I noticed in the LTV of the site, it looks like after about 3.8, 3.5 months we have a fairly high churn rate, which does cause some concern for me. So we're looking at the first seven days, really low churn rate. After about 30 days we go up to about a 31% churn rate. So one third of our new customers cancel. If we look at three months, that's when we hit Pretty much stasis like that is about 98% churn rate. When I was looking at the overview or sort of cohorts, we can see that even back In March of 2024, we kind of have our large amount of orders happen right between here, here and here. So this is like where we see that churn rate after three months we get only about 4% of retention after that. Now there is a pivot point here that I have to investigate with you because it's a pivot point but also like a bell curve. We can see that this is heading out this way where the previous month 5 is at 3 and now it's at 20. This 26 is much better than the average here. This 26 is much better. The average here also along this line right through there. So for some reason There was an August 2024 shift that allowed month two to get better with time and be better than the previous. Do we know what happened in August of 2024?
- [13:04]
TJ Kelly
I have no idea.
- [13:06]
John
Would Amazon launch be around that time at all?
- [13:10]
TJ Kelly
Oh no, we've been on Amazon for a long time.
- [13:13]
John
Okay, if it is something, this could also be like there is more subscriber type of environments this last kind of year. We do see that also with a lot of clients that are on subscription, people are more apt to be like, okay, they buy on subscription. I wasn't sure if it was forced, like hey, we tested people that were you forced them on a subscription at that time or something like that. Okay, this is much, much better in this sense here. Let me just clear that out. It looks better where even from September it looks like there is an increase. So the 90 day subscription window ending is trending better. It looks like it's about to continue on. Maybe there's a fourth, maybe there's a fifth month. If we. Let's just say we call it five months. For example, if we just look at the last year, our average orders per skip order. So recurring. Maybe I'm on the wrong screen. Yep. If we look at like the last year and this is just going last fiscal year, the average order per subscription is about 2. People do subscribe a little bit longer, but they are skipping some orders. That's part of that. We have to factor in to the ltv. So they may be on the subscriber longer, but more skips means less revenue. So for a larger skip rate we have on average about a two orders. Now what that would tell me though is that this exact model here, let me just go into the analytics. There we go, I went back too far. If we look at all past three years kind of thing, our average has not really grown in the last three years, the last six months. So that too, if we're looking at. We get a $8 profit plus two more that we can count on. That's $24 that we have like in. In basically net revenue.
- [14:48]
TJ Kelly
Yeah.
- [14:49]
Dean
Now, average orders per subscription, but many of our customers that come back for multiple orders, they haven't actually made a subscription. They're just coming back for more purchases. How do we account for that?
- [15:01]
John
And that's what I want to see is I want to get like, here's where we are seeing some faults and then here's what we have modeling that we can help increase that or set off in the right direction. So my apologies. And Dean, I will definitely get there. I just don't want to jump too far ahead. But you're exactly right is what could we do in this way? So I'll speed this up a little bit.
- [15:20]
Dean
Oh no, you're good.
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John
I just.
- [15:21]
Dean
We haven't been pushing a subscription model and perhaps we should.
- [15:24]
Ralph Burns
But.
- [15:24]
John
But you're on the right track for me.
- [15:27]
Ralph Burns
Yeah.
- [15:28]
John
So with those two average order value, like the current. This is prepaid traffic. In my opinion, if we throw paid traffic at this a long enough time period, we're going to make ourselves all very upset. So one, I would say testing an existing page by cloning it to force of subscription, not force suggested subscription default. And we can test that with existing traffic. You have a very good organic traffic that we should not upset and we do not want to. We do not rock the boat with those people. Once we start to mess with organic offers, it's a long road back if it fails. So my opinion is before we, before we introduce ourselves as a company that does like deep discounts or for subscriptions, we isolate that traffic so that we're protecting the brand name on a small subset of paid users that we can control. What I would suggest for us is taking one of our. Or taking our existing PDPs, our existing product pages, cloning them into paid only pages. We call them like Dash G or dash fb, which we can do Google and meta traffic. We wanted to test either one of those. And then we're going to compare the conversion rates of people who have defaulted to a subscription versus our regular traffic. Now, we do have a issue where, like you said, Dean, where we have a. We have people who are coming back and ordering who are existing customers, but not subscribers. That part is we'll have a plan for those people. But what that tells us is that the existing organic traffic is going to default to have a higher conversion rate because they're already warmed up. It's there's six purchase we if we're comparing that to new brand new cold traffic, it's not going to look exactly alike. But we can look at if we're paying X amount of dollars and we're getting these subscribers and these subscribers are coming in at X amount of dollars, do we have more subscribers per do a higher ratio of subscribers per purchase on that page compared to our normal organic traffic and is it coming in at a cost that's now that would help new customer acquisition but it doesn't necessarily help and it also can help existing customer retention. But because we could test on things like people Google the brand and we can take a small amount of brand ad spend and say hey, here's the product page you're trying to get to. Anyway, it's now on a subscription that gets into the organic traffic a little bit. But we can set a small daily budget to not affect a large volume of those users. So like a small 1% traffic test. But we can absolutely test bringing those people into subscribers in order to increase the lifetime value of the subscribers. My question would be a pricing difference between us and Amazon. I think could be hemorrhaging your small amount of orders for subscription. Make me curious if they are moving into this area here because this is in my opinion looks like it's been growing for the best that I can see. I'm using a third party tool to look at Amazon traffic. So it's not. It could be 40% off, but it looks like your Amazon's been getting a little bit better this last eight months, is that correct?
- [18:19]
TJ Kelly
I think it's because we started focusing on our lead product which is called and we have been focused on shifting our advertising a little bit.
- [18:29]
Dean
Yeah.
- [18:30]
John
And I think what that happens is as you start to engage colder audiences, we know that they usually like to buy on Amazon just because it's cheaper for them and they believe that they can get a free tomorrow and it's low risk. Which then brings me into there's two schools of thought that we can go into. One, if we're happy with our Amazon store and want that to continuously grow, we can absolutely do that. We just need to measure the increase and decrease of the sales together. We use data suite for that on our side that can tell us as we increase ad spend inside of Meta, how do all the channels Also REACT gives us measurement guidance and that kind of stuff. So we can see or if we say, hey, we like Amazon, but we don't want that thing to continuously grow forever. It's expensive. We don't like the fees or paying to deal with. I don't know. Some people have really horrible experiences and they want to use them like a 3pm and some people are like, no, I'm going to build the rest of my life there. How are you guys feeling about Amazon so far?
- [19:21]
TJ Kelly
Well, I like the idea to keep them as sort of a new customer acquisition tool. And I think the profit is much higher on our Shopify store. And I think that's in line with if we turn the Shopify store into kind of like a hub for all kinds of supplements with hundreds of influential brands and a major brand, a couple of our major brands, I think that could fit. But I'm also open for doing stuff on Amazon because we are a factory. We can come up with really good prices or so we have some leeway there too. Maybe it would be a mix of both, like depending on the brand.
- [20:04]
Dean
I'll just add we started doing Amazon Lives about two, three weeks ago and they have been building some momentum. So I think it's going in a good direction. It's already had a couple thousand in sales, so just I'm not sure how much experience you guys would have with Amazon Lives, but just wanted to add that.
- [20:22]
John
Yeah, yeah, I don't have any personal experience. I have clients that do them that kind of. Tell me about the experience. I think Amazon Lives are good. The Amazon sales, especially when you're looking at like the time of year where, you know, sales are like Black Friday, summer Monday can be amazing for people that are on Amazon. So I don't think of it as a negative. I actually welcome Amazon. I think that it's like the train that's already left the station. You're either on it or not. There are 33% of every E commerce transaction today. One out of every three sales that happen online happen on Amazon. So they do. They command a following. They've earned it. So I think that we can use it strategically. One of the things I would say is that if we wanted to reduce the SKU size or SKU list that also that is available on Amazon or strategically remove some things that, that we maybe not need to have it on there. The way that we have done this before with and also with another both supplement companies is we actually reduce the SKU count down to our best sellers. But then we increase the price of our best sellers bit makes up for the loss of profitability in Amazon. But also we didn't give any sort of subscription offers on Amazon. If you want a deeper discount and subscriber and our full line of products, you can visit our website. So we drove everybody there. We do have to remain dynamic with the product that we place on Amazon needs to be one of the products that we have focus on inside of the ad accounts. Because as we start to build awareness and brand slash product awareness on that product, there is going to be a groundswell. That groundswell will then do whatever it wants. It just explodes in different directions. Some people go the website, direct organic Amazon, they go everywhere. But that groundswell is going to be particularly about a category or product. Very little often do you say hey, I have a high heel and I build a big groundswell about high heels. And people buy Volkswagens like they don't switch products. So it's nice that ground swell that we do want to build is has to be around a specific small subset or group of products. So that as we do more and more marketing we do see our Amazon and our Shopify store increasing in volume. We're going to be using one as a loss leader. But it's not loss leader from a profitability perspective, it's just from a product selection. And then as they become more familiar with our brand and visit our website more often, they will continue to buy other products. We do all of our Google Ads advertising through Amazon which is something that we can accelerate. We do that as well with another company called. But the one thing I would say, just as an example, if I wanted to, if I can share this one, this is actually something that can be fairly beneficial. If we're wanting to lean into a smaller group of core products, we can actually help increase the amount of efficiency inside of those products. So here's the one, what you'll see is there's a bunch of these search campaigns called Ga to Amz. And what Ga to AMZ is it's not really going to track any sort of conversions at all. But these are sending traffic directly to Amazon from Google. We bypass kind of the site and this is for our Amazon loyal customers. So what I mean by that is if you're looking for any one of these products and we have shopping and search ads, let me just do search terms. But if we're looking for the Beats replacement ear pad for example, like what this does is someone that's looking for this, they will usually get a search ad that Pulls up on Amazon. I don't know if it's going to pull up here because we only spend about 10 to $15 a day. But it essentially would pull up right here when this thing runs. I just don't know how much we're spending on this. Yeah, it's only $64 a day. So it may not be spending, but we actually have an Amazon ad and it looks like it's Amazon themselves. So you see Amazon.com, like if I click into how this ad looks when it gets pulled up, it looks like it's going right to like right to Amazon. We've experimented with, instead of saying Amazon there, use the Amazon logo. We do that for another company for I think Amazon shower caps. So if you type in like Amazon shower caps, see, that's Amazon themselves. Of course I'm not going to get my ad as soon as I. There it is. So right here you're going to see Amazon and then you see the A. The A looks a little bit different though. That's the closest I can quote, unquote, forge it. This is all completely above board, above water. Amazon said we don't care about copyright protection inside of Google. They kind of want it because if you're going to send traffic directly to Amazon, great, that's fine. So you can use the Amazon link and what happens is clicking, if you click this button down here, you go to all the competitors and we want you to go to ours. So when you go back, if you click on ours, you bypass the search and you bypass all of the competitors and then you go right to ours. And I can put myself above Amazon themselves And it's stupid cheap. We're talking really inexpensive clicks. Well, let me just go back to the campaigns here. And the CPC is about under a dollar, so about 94 cents, usually about a dollar $1 25 on the high side, but amazing. Click the rates because people think it's Google, it's Amazon.
- [25:16]
Ralph Burns
All right, checking in here, making sure that you're following along as you either listen to or watch this. We have clearly defined sort of a four step strategy here, which John's going to go into a little bit more detail with here after this break. But basically here is the plan so far is to test the subscription model because subscriptions are really where you increase your lifetime value and your lifetime value is directly related back to what you can afford to pay to acquire a customer. What you are willing to pay and can afford to acquire a customer so that you beat the competition. So getting a subscription plan in place and testing it maybe in a separate environment, maybe even separating out an isolated amount of traffic to make sure that we have the right offer that can scale at a good ncac. That makes sense is step number one. Number two is an Amazon refresh of the SKUS in this particular case. And we see this all the time with E commerce brands that sell on Amazon. They just dump their entire catalog onto Amazon and it's a free for all. And they have no strategy when it comes to catalog management and or they also don't have a strategy on pricing. And John's going to get into pricing here as a huge component as to how you can leverage Amazon for acquiring new customers, but then transition those new clients and new customers over to your model on your own site for continuity. And there's a very specific strategy which he talked about a little bit so far on the show, but he's going to get into more after this summary here. So pricing is sort of the third strategy here, which is also interrelated with the Amazon refresh of the SKUs. And last but not least, the fourth part to this is a Google to Amazon ads strategy, which is a sneaky but very compliant strategy that we use for Amazon sellers in order to maximize Amazon growth for new customers. But also make sure that you can also increase your bestseller rank on Amazon, which increases your organic sales. And then you mix that with pricing strategy so that you can actually make as much, maybe if not more on Amazon than you do on your own store. That is E commerce nirvana. And last but not least, John refers to this just a bit, which is also an email strategy. Email is one of the easiest ways that we found to increase lifetime value, increase naov, and ultimately scale and grow businesses. And it's one of the strategies by segmenting out your lists based upon who has bought from you before, who no longer is buying from you, and having an email strategy that goes along with everything that we're talking about here. That is a killer approach and we see that a lot. So I think it's very instructive in the next section here for you to pay attention to all those little details. The interesting part of this is that turning on the spigot of paid traffic is not part of the strategy. That is a secondary sort of scope which John and the team get into here. So back to John. Make sure that you are watching this over on our YouTube channel@perpetualtraffic.com YouTube to make sure that you get all these little nuggets in here because I think this is one of the best ways for you to learn and also compare. Hey, what's my internal team doing? Is my internal team double checking on all these things or are they just looking at in app metrics and claiming hey, we're getting 300% ROAS and we're doing a great job for you. At the end of the day you're in business to make money. You're in business to obviously impact the world in a positive way, hopefully with great products, but also to make a profit. And that's one of the most important things why we go through this business analysis before we do anything with a client.
- [29:19]
John
So back to John as I think that we can attack this kind of threefold, well, fourfold one would be testing the subscriptions on an isolated amount of traffic to make sure we have the right offer that can scale at a good NCAC. The Amazon refresh of the SKUs. If we wanted to reduce SKUs to bring more people to our website rather than just buying all of our product line on Amazon could be helpful for retention. Email marketing, new product announcements, those type of things. We can grow our email list and grow our engagement of our email list so that we can make revenue on demand. It's going to be great for LTV the pricing updates. If we want to increase the pricing of some of our core products, 3, 4, 5 dollars help offset some of that cost. Help also increase a higher end cac then the people who are looking for Amazon products. So if we look at the let's just say the clients get the detox kits. So best Amazon Detox kit perfect like 80 cents right there at the top of the page and we're sending all of that traffic from Google to Amazon and no one's everyone believes that Amazon's promoting as an example there so we can capture the other traffic introducing ourselves to our brand. That additional traffic that comes from Google that goes to the Amazon listing increases two things. The best the bsr, the bestseller rank actually decreases it so you're getting a better position. Also increases your organic placement. So when you have a organic placement that's high and a BSR that's low, you actually get a larger amount of organic traffic from Amazon because people start typing in detox kit and then you're kind of featured. We did this with it's the female face shaver dermaplaner. So this we ran about $30,000 over the course of two years for this. Now we have 24,000 four and a half reviews. So this thing just sells like hotcakes now. And this is the best seller rank number 123. So out of all of the beauty and supplies in Amazon, we're number 123 and we're number two in men's shaving razors and blades. It's not even for men. So it can get, you can grow this very quickly while sustaining growth in sales. So we're bringing organic traffic from Google, we're getting organic traffic from Amazon. When I say organic I mean paid or traffic that would have gone to Amazon and shopped around. And then that also decreases our rank which gives us a better position, gives us more organic traffic at a higher price. Introducing people to our brand to then bring them over to our site and put them on a longer subscription at a new customer only discount with a coupon code. If we want to keep those things locked in and then see identify usages, those are the plans. First paid traffic is going to come in and just exacerbate this. Paid traffic is not the fix of a company. Paid traffic exposes issues. In my opinion. Paid traffic is, I think this is a good model. We throw a hundred people at it. It's not a bidding strategy that's going to make the company work. It's the modeling, it's the pricing, it's the growth. So my opinion is people I believe take a look at too much like, oh, we didn't have the right ad, they have the right traffic. Well, if you only sell one shoe out of two shoes, you're never going to sell anything. So it's always that like what's the difference there? So I believe that your model is fantastic. I believe your product is fantastic. It's already proven to grow people on Amazon when they do find it, when they find out a brand new purchase. What I want to make sure is we have the right model for growth so we don't find out, hey, we lost $20,000 six months later and we can work through that. And I have some examples. I'm going to pause here as I bogart the whole meeting and why Just give us a break, see if there's any questions so far.
- [32:31]
TJ Kelly
Well, I love what you're talking about and you're opening our eyes to some new strategies. So I think we can adjust our offers, we can encourage subscriptions, we can also encourage people to through on like guide them through cleanses throughout the year. It's not like it's a lifestyle kind of a thing. We, we have an am, an amazing email going out every, I think we do two a week. So we can have a lot more encouragement in there to have them follow through on subscriptions and also have subscriptions that increase the discount over time. So if you haven't been subscribed for six months you get a higher discount. One year you get a premium discount. So then if you let go of it, you have to start from zero.
- [33:21]
John
Yeah, makes sense.
- [33:23]
TJ Kelly
Yeah, I like it. So, yeah. Okay.
- [33:25]
John
Any questions that you have so far?
- [33:27]
Dean
No, I like everything I'm hearing. I like the plan to increase the cost in general and reduce the amount of products available on Amazon. Just have the best sellers basically the more strategies we can come up with to redirect them to our main website I think is a good thing.
- [33:41]
John
Okay, yeah, I agree. I think that would be, it would be helpful for us to test, measure iterate, make sure that we're heading down the right path. But I think that would be, that'd be the best first way to deploy this. Just because with our thin margins we can win by growth, but it has to be strategic growth. If we have to pay for every sale for the rest of our lives, we live and die by razor thin margins, which is no one sleeps at night. So being able to leverage Amazon Organic Traffic, being able to leverage Google Traffic that's looking for products on Amazon because they're loyal to Amazon, being able to push more people to subscriptions when they like us through the website at discount, plus engage new customers with a, with a first time discount. Essentially we're looking for kind of rapid, cheaper NCAC at scale and a extending LTV model to be deployed and we will probably pivot. This is just again what I've been able to see so far, what I've been able to come up with. We're gonna be able to dive a lot deeper into this and be able to explore each one of these options. But these are the steps I think that we'll need to take before, before we're ready for like massive amounts of paid traffic.
- [34:43]
TJ Kelly
Right, yeah, this is good. So yeah, we spent a lot on advertising on Amazon and we have all our products available so it's not as profitable as it could be. So I like this. Are we gonna do something about meta ads, Instagram, TikTok and all these.
- [35:01]
John
Meta I think is probably gonna be one of your biggest leaders, the thing that we would want to deploy and this is going to be something that it's going to take data suite itself to deploy. But it does work and make a lot of sense. We've done this with a few, we're actually doing it now with another, with a kind of a larger company that does. It's actually a partner of mine in another business. But we were switching over the conversion actions on both Meta and Google. I've already done this on Meta for another client, actually a couple clients now. But if we're looking at this company here, you can see there's a period where all of a sudden kind of sales spiked up. We knew that we were missing some conversions and now we're finally seeing all the conversions coming over here.
- [35:46]
Ralph Burns
All right, so let us know how you enjoyed this week's show. Like I said, this is a bit of a departure from our normal shows, but I mean, this is the kind of stuff I think that marketers probably don't look at. Like again, we've said many times it's so easy to just turn on the ads and just put together some campaigns. Try and get as much cold traffic in there as possible and start getting your new customers. Well, we all know that in app you need really good metrics. You need an outside third party attribution tool to be able to decipher what is cold, what isn't cold. But that's not even the problem for a lot of businesses. It's business problems. And this is one of those cases where the real low hanging fruit is not on paid traffic. It's really on strategies around ltv, strategies around a subscription model, strategies around churn, strategies around email, strategies around how to deal with Amazon. Because Amazon, like I said, is a third of all e commerce sales online right now, you can't avoid it. All right? So work alongside them and hopefully today's show has helped you shed some light on that and how you can deploy it in your business. Of course, if you need our help, we'd be happy to help. So head on over to tier1one.com hit that big pink button, apply, fill out the application there and then we will go through this in a discovery call initially, understand exactly what it is that your biggest business issue is and then if needed, go through an analysis just like this that we talked about here in today's show. If you like today's show, leave it in the comments, let me know. We've got a lot of these that we can discuss in lots of different industries and hopefully this has been helpful for you to understand the business metrics and the importance of them behind all the marketing and all the stuff that we talk about here on today's show. So of course all the links and references that we make here are over@perpetualtraffic.com, and like I said before, make sure if you're listening to this, you do watch this over on our YouTube channel over at perpetualtraffic.com YouTube but you already knew that. So on behalf of my amazing co host, Lauren E. Petrillo, and special thanks to John Moran and TJ Kelly for hosting today's show, even though they didn't realize they were going to be hosting it until next show. See ya. You've been listening to Perpetual Traffic.
- [38:07]
John
It.