Perpetual Traffic Podcast: FIRE Your Media Buyer: The Fix for Wasted Ad Spend

Hosts: Ralph Burns (CEO, Tier 11) & Lauren Petrullo (CEO, Mongoose Media)
Date: November 4, 2025
Episode Purpose: Unpacking the diminishing role of traditional media buyers in paid advertising, the rise of AI automation, and why brands must focus beyond campaign setup (media buying) — specifically on after-the-click strategies, customer journey mapping, and true growth-centric optimization.

Episode Overview

Ralph and Lauren challenge classic agency and in-house marketing team mindsets by arguing that media buying has become commoditized due to AI’s evolution in ad platforms. The real leverage for business growth now lies in data feedback loops, post-click optimization, deep funnel analysis, and a holistic approach to the customer experience — not in pushing buttons inside Meta or Google Ads.
They discuss practical frameworks, handoff pains between marketing and sales, funnel congruency, the importance of strategic thinkers over mere implementation, and how business owners and marketers alike need to redefine what marketing success truly means.

🔑 Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Decline of the Traditional Media Buyer Role

• AI has simplified campaign management: Both Google and Meta (Facebook) have automated much of the hands-on work media buyers used to do ([03:10], [09:03]).
• Many agencies and brands cling to old processes, risking obsolescence as in-app metrics become less reliable and customer acquisition shifts beyond mere optimization ([01:00], [26:16]).
• "Media buyer is dead; strategy is on." (Lauren, [23:00])

The New Growth Focus: After the Click

• True performance is driven by what happens after the ad click — e.g., landing pages, emails, and the full customer journey ([07:00], [07:59], [13:59]).
• Effective marketing is about "obsessing about what happens after the click" to maximize ROI and loyalty, not just traffic ([04:54], [05:59]).
• Example: Small-budget clients see outsized gains when little tweaks and split tests are made to landing pages instead of just creative or targeting ([06:09], [07:06], [09:03]).

Funnel Congruency & Audience Segmentation

• If landing pages don’t match ad promises (bait-and-switch), conversions tank ([07:59]).
• Customizing post-opt-in emails boosts engagement; e.g., greeting new vs returning subscribers differently ([10:35], [12:00]).
• Memorable quote:
  "I don't want a one night stand with leads or with customers." (Lauren, [00:52], [12:32])

Redefining What is a Lead & How to Qualify

• Distinctions are made between opt-ins, MQLs (marketing qualified leads), SQLs (sales qualified leads), and disqualified (DQL) leads ([14:27]–[18:47]).
• The importance of "conditional knockout questions" to disqualify unsuitable leads early ([14:27]).
• Keeping disqualified contacts for negative lookalike audiences — "I have my number eights... those who lied but tried" (Lauren, [16:35]; audience laughs at the terminology).

Strategy Over Execution

• The real value is in growth strategists, who understand the entire journey and optimize beyond platforms ([22:18]).
• Agencies and in-house teams must evolve or face extinction — "I'm seeing a lot of smaller agencies just contract and go out of business…" (Ralph, [01:00], [26:47]).
• "If all you are doing is placing the media… I need you to do the things that the algorithms can't do." (Lauren, [23:15])

Client & Agency Dynamics

• Many business owners mistakenly delegate marketing to external teams/individuals who lack true ownership or strategic oversight ([32:12], [34:15]).
• No one cares as much or knows as much about the brand as the owner — agencies must be true partners, not just "order takers" ([33:51], [34:41]).
• Quote:
  "No one will have as much discipline or dedication to your brand as the owner will." (Lauren, [33:52])

The Maturity of the Media Buying Ecosystem & Modern Team Structures

• With media buying effort minimized by AI, “everything else has gotten harder — expectations are up, competition is up, more expensive acquisition, and external market conditions are harsher” ([28:12], [28:47]).
• Top-tier client accounts at agencies like Tier 11 now involve 7–8 team members per account ([28:12]).

🕒 Notable Timestamps & Memorable Quotes

Motivations & Outlook ([00:52]–[01:00])

• Lauren: "I don't want a one night stand with leads or with customers. Now how the heck are you trying to monetize and develop loyalty?"
• Ralph: "I'm seeing a lot of smaller agencies just contract and go out of business just because they're not adopting this mindset... Meta is going to do a lot of the work for you."

After-the-Click Optimization ([04:54], [07:59])

• Lauren: “…obsessing about what happens after the click. In the past, it’d be like, ‘Well, that’s not my responsibility. I’m not in charge of landing pages,’ …But now we're being held accountable to the impact."

Creative Diversification & Smaller Budgets ([06:09])

• Ralph: “…we kind of tweaked the scope and we created some landing pages for them. That work… what's the big lever? The big lever is still like what happens after the click. It's 50% of the effectiveness of the ad, if not more…”

Email Triage & Personalization ([10:35], [12:00])

• Lauren: “You don't often get a second first impression... The very first greeting you have, you should have maybe the first 150 characters change on that email based on who they are.”

Lead Definitions: Opt-in, MQL, SQL ([14:27]–[17:40])

• Lauren: “I define an opt in as someone that raises their hand because they want to hear what you have to say. They're not a lead for me until they want to hear what you have to sell. And then they're not a sales qualified lead until I actually want to sell to them.” ([16:35])
• Ralph: "You disqualify. I don't know where those leads go on that client… those people that don’t qualify though, they should be going to a rejection page... You want meta not to see that as a win." ([18:37])

Strategic Evolution ([23:00])

• Lauren: "What I hear is media buyer is dead. Strategy is on. Media buyer is just an order taker."

The Dangers of Shallow Metrics ([25:00], [30:51])

• Ralph: "In app metrics can be so easily manipulated and it’s not the source of truth anymore... You're just going to be swirling around the drain even though you're saying, hey, look at how great I'm doing. But the business is flatlined down."

Owner/Agency Accountability ([33:52])

• Lauren: "No one will have as much discipline or dedication to your brand as the owner will."

The “Second Sale” Standard ([35:30])

• Lauren: “…Look at your ecosystem as everyone in your CRM should be in one of three buckets. Never bought, bought once, bought more than once. Carry that through that second sale.”

💡 Takeaways & Action Items

• Media buying alone isn’t enough — Brands and agencies must own post-click optimization, retention, and the entire customer experience.
• Define your lead stages (opt-in, MQL, SQL, DQL, etc.) clearly and ensure both marketing and sales use the same language.
• Obsess over what happens after the click — Split test landing pages, customize email sequences, and ensure congruency between ad and offer.
• Negative audiences matter: Don’t let disqualified leads pollute your reporting or lookalike targeting models.
• Team for strategy, not just execution: Value strategists and full-funnel thinkers; “order takers” won’t cut it in a post-AI world.
• Business owners and marketing leaders: Don’t abdicate strategy or discipline — own the results.

🎤 Tone & Final Thoughts

The conversation is frank, energetic, and a little irreverent — with both hosts tossing in industry inside humor and hard-hitting real talk. Behind the joking, the consensus is urgent and clear: adapt your approach to performance marketing now, or risk being left behind by both smarter competitors and smarter algorithms.

Get the episode’s bonuses and resources at perpetualtraffic.com.

Notable Quote to Remember:
"If you've got a product like a supplement or a skincare product, how quickly are you getting that second order? ... I don't want a one night stand with leads or with customers."
— Lauren Petrullo ([12:32])